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The Pinball Show Ep 175 BONUS: Dennis' Top 5 Greatest Pinball Machines Of All Time From Each Company Part 1 (Stern Pinball & Jersey Jack Pinball)

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·34m 7s·held·May 6, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Dennis Creasel's top 5 greatest machines from Stern (Godzilla #1) and Jersey Jack (Elton John #1).

Summary

Dennis Creasel ranks his top 5 greatest pinball machines from Stern Pinball and Jersey Jack Pinball. For Stern: Walking Dead (#5), Deadpool (#4), Jurassic Park (#3), Jaws (#2), and Godzilla (#1). For Jersey Jack: Toy Story 4 (#5), Guns N' Roses (#4), Willy Wonka (#3), Dialed In!! (#2), and Elton John (#1). He emphasizes that these are 'greatest' machines (not just personal favorites) based on design, gameplay, layout, and thematic integration, with three of Stern's top five designed by Keith Elwin.

Key Claims

  • Walking Dead has the best rule set Stern ever had

    medium confidence · Dennis Creasel discussing Walking Dead as #5 Stern machine, noting 'it might be...it's so tough...You could argue it's the best rule set they ever had.'

  • Deadpool may be the last really good Stern game designed for arcade/location play without requiring home ownership to learn

    medium confidence · Dennis: 'it's an example. It might be the last really good example of Stern Pinball doing a game that was ideal for an arcade setting. You didn't need to take it home to learn how to play it.'

  • Godzilla is Keith Elwin best layout

    high confidence · Dennis: 'That layout is great. But the best layout. It is his best layout.' when discussing Godzilla as #1 Stern machine.

  • Elizabeth Gieske coding work on Jaws is responsible for much of its immersive quality

    medium confidence · Host discussing Jaws: 'This is the rise and the birth of Elizabeth Gieske that people have fallen in love with. The coder on Jaws...everybody's really waiting to see what she does next because of what Jaws has become.'

  • Guns N' Roses is the best 'world under glass' implementation until Labyrinth and Dune

    medium confidence · Dennis on Guns N' Roses: 'it is the best example that up until, I mean, you could argue since it came out, Things like Labyrinth, things like Dune. But when it came to full-on world under glass, I still say this is the absolute best implementation that I have ever seen.'

  • Elton John has a better layout than Guns N' Roses despite inferior theme choice

    high confidence · Dennis: 'the layout is infinitely better than Guns N' Roses. It is.' and 'this was not the best theme choice' but layout compensates.

  • Elton John layout is better than all three Pat Lawlor Jersey Jack designs

    medium confidence · Host: 'Steve Ritchie comes over there and with his first design game for Jersey Jack, designed a better layout than all three of those Pat Lawlor. That is what made definitively, in my mind, Steve Ritchie is the better geometric layout designer.'

Notable Quotes

  • “It's not a game I've owned, but in terms of, all right, you've got the premium LE, you've got the T-Rex flinging the ball around, the Raptor Pit. For Stern in particular, very good world under glass thing...tells its own story.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Jurassic Park discussion — Explains design philosophy of JJP—world-building and theme integration driving game choice despite not owning it.

  • “The funniest game of the last 20 years...it's dripping in humor. That's all it is. It's constantly making fun of everything.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Deadpool discussion — Highlights Deadpool's exceptional thematic execution and humor as key strength.

  • “The code is the immersive part. It's crazy how immersive this code can be.”

    Greg Bone (via host citation) @ Jaws discussion — Industry recognition of Elizabeth Gieske's coding as central to Jaws's immersion and growing reputation.

  • “My whole lineup could be Elwyns and all the layouts would feel very very distinct but the rules—he has a way he likes his rules done...I'd rather have more variety than that.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Godzilla/Elwin designer discussion — Reveals collector strategy: recognizes designer patterns and diversifies to avoid monotony in home collection.

  • “It's an experience. Completely unbalanced certain songs are just flat out better than others...but it's a reasonable shooter...I'm going to put in quarters. I'm going to play Live and Let Die. It's going to happen.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Guns N' Roses discussion — Acknowledges flawed game design but recognizes pull of exceptional thematic/visual experience—defines JJP's strength.

  • “The piano with the little marquee display...you got the little crocodile. You got the little tiny dancer. It doesn't do the full concert embrace the way Guns N' Roses sticks you in the concert. This is more like a montage celebrating Elton John.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Elton John discussion — Contrasts two approaches to licensed theme implementation—full immersion vs. celebration montage.

  • “He got his mojo back for this game. Steve Ritchie comes over to Jersey Jack Pinball...designed a better layout than all three Pat Lawlor.”

Entities

Dennis CreaselpersonKeith ElwinpersonPat LawlorpersonSteve RitchiepersonElizabeth GieskepersonGeorge Gomezperson

Signals

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Dennis emphasizes layout quality, shootability, and flow as primary differentiators between machines, with particular praise for Keith Elwin's geometric layout design and Steve Ritchie's three-flipper layouts.

    high · Repeated discussion of layout as decisive factor (Godzilla 'best layout', Elton John 'layout is infinitely better than Guns N' Roses', Toy Story 4 'layout is pretty enjoyable').

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Strong emphasis on how well theme integrates with rules and world-building ('world under glass' concept). Jaws and Godzilla praised for thematic coherence; Jersey Jack criticized for prioritizing aesthetics over gameplay integration.

    high · Dennis: 'you're actually on the boat, on the orca' (Jaws), contrasted with 'gameplay takes second fiddle to aesthetics' (JJP general).

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Tension between approachability (Deadpool) and competitive depth (Walking Dead). Deadpool praised as last arcade-friendly Stern game; Walking Dead positioned as pro player's dream but inaccessible.

    high · Dennis on Deadpool: 'ideal for an arcade setting. You didn't need to take it home to learn how to play it.' vs Walking Dead: 'deeply unapproachable game.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Godzilla's magnet grab and collapsing building change state mechanism praised as novel and well-executed. Dialed In's magnet use under playfield (similar to Adams Family) noted as cool innovation.

    high · Dennis: 'Mechagodzilla Tummy Grab is my favorite...magnet grab is such a unique novel use of a magnet', 'the way the collapsing building...also allowing change state to exist because of that. That's a perfect idea.'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.102

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material.
0:19
Alright Dennis, now's the time. We gotta know. Your favorite, your top five greatest pinball machines from each company. Was this tough for you at all? I mean, once I got to like the 25th company back in the 1940s, it was a struggle. I was on the struggle bus. We're going to see how many of these manufacturers we can get through, listener. But what we're going to do is we're going to – Dennis is going to go through and list his top five, ranking from five to one. All of a sudden, I became Jurassic Park. Jeff Goldblum. Jeff. Ian Freeze. We're going through Stern. Pinball. We're going to go through Jersey. Jack. Stern, Chicago Gaming Company, Spooky Pinball, American Pinball, Bally Williams, Sega, Daddy's, maybe even a Gottlieb. Who knows? We'll see how much we can get through. Let's start with the big daddy, Stern Pinball. Glory days. Stern Pinball. We're going to start with number five. So there's a lot of Stern Pinball machines. How far did you – There are a lot. Is this just Stern Pinball? Are we talking Stern Electronics? No, those are not the same company. Those aren't the same company. Correct. So modern – In fact, they're not even linked. So are we talking 1999 to 2025? Yeah, that's what I looked at. All right, so 25-plus years of games. What's your number five greatest earned pinball of all time? Yeah, oh, boy, such a challenge. I went ahead and went with The Walking Dead. As number five? Yes. Now I'm really interested in seeing what the other four are. Why so low is what I'm going to say.
1:51
You only put it in the top five. Why so hard on It's so great The layout holds it back It's not Honestly it's not a good shooter It's just not I enjoy the pro too but I mean that right Ramp is steeper than It should be I mean it's almost Like people write off shots on that game The rules are what Make it work and the layout is unique so I appreciate it. Out of the pops is a flaw. Yes.

  • Walking Dead remaster rumors exist

    low confidence · Dennis: 'And there are all the rumors that the remaster might be Walking Dead.'

  • Jersey Jack games prioritize aesthetics over gameplay

    high confidence · Dennis's opening assessment: 'Very attractive games, but gameplay takes second fiddle to aesthetics.'

  • Dialed In!! requires capacitor/board upgrade for optimal flipper responsiveness

    medium confidence · Dennis on Guns N' Roses: 'I think this game benefits the most from that capacitor upgrade or the board upgrade to juice those flippers...seemed to me like it needs it the most.'

    • Host @ Elton John analysis conclusion — Documents narrative of designer comeback and definitively positions Steve Ritchie as superior layout designer to Pat Lawler.

  • “It's honestly, for an original theme, they did a really good job with this...It has that Williams feel.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Dialed In discussion — Praises Jersey Jack's ability to emulate classic Bally/Williams design philosophy with original IP.

  • “It's the perfect amount of difficulty. And so it's my number two.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Dialed In assessment — Establishes difficulty balance as key metric for Dennis's game evaluation.

  • “Everything that I've picked here, the problem is they're best games I really, really like. But like, for example, if it was my favorite games, I probably would have had Star Trek on my list, and it's not going to be here.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Distinction between favorite and greatest games — Clarifies methodology: these are 'greatest' by objective design merit, not personal preference—important for interpretation.

    • Greg Bone
    person
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Godzillagame
    Jawsgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Deadpoolgame
    The Walking Deadgame
    Elton Johngame
    Dialed In!game
    Willy Wonkagame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Toy Story 4game
    Flip N Out Pinballvenue
    The Pinball Showcontent
    Straight Down the Middlecontent
    Star Trekgame
    Iron Maidengame

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie's move to Jersey Jack Pinball represents significant designer migration. First JJP game (Elton John) positioned as superior to recent Stern work and as definitively better than Pat Lawler's layouts.

    high · Host: 'the last few of his Stern games have not resonated with me. This was like, wow, okay...he got his mojo back for this game.' Positioned as having 'regained creative momentum' at JJP.

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Elizabeth Gieske's coding work on Jaws recognized as exceptional; community watching for her next project. Positioned as rising star in pinball code design.

    medium · Host: 'This is the rise and the birth of Elizabeth Gieske that people have fallen in love with...everybody's really waiting to see what she does next.'

  • $

    market_signal: Dennis demonstrates deliberate curation strategy: owns four of five top Stern picks (Walking Dead, Deadpool, Jaws, Godzilla but not Jurassic Park). Avoiding designer redundancy—would not add another Elwin JJP game despite acknowledging layouts would be distinct.

    high · Dennis: 'I'd rather have more variety than that...if Jurassic Park or Kong came in it would probably be once Godzilla and or Jaws left.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Godzilla's ranking as #1 explicitly depends on premium/LE features (building, rotating Mechagodzilla shot, magnet grab). Implies pro version may rank lower, signaling premium tier strategy impact on perception.

    high · Dennis: 'I will note that this number one is very much relying on premium LE...the building, the rotating shot for the Mechagodzilla.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Walking Dead described as having possibly Stern's best rule set but being 'deeply unapproachable.' Jaws rules praised for integration; Godzilla rules ranked #3 of top 5 Stern machines. Rule quality considered separate from overall greatness ranking.

    high · Dennis: 'Walking Dead's rule set...I still think, overall, is a better rules package in total...Jaws would be the number two [on rules]...Godzilla's not number one at everything. I already just noted. In this list, Godzilla's number three on rules.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Jaws showing reputation growth trajectory—Dennis initially skeptical but now plays it more than Godzilla. Greg Bone reporting similar experience. Code quality (Elizabeth Gieske) driving re-evaluation.

    high · Dennis: 'I actually play it more than Godzilla now.' Host: 'I love hearing that you've really, yeah, Jaws has really grown on you.' Greg Bone cited as similarly impressed by immersive code.

  • ?

    content_signal: Discussion distinguishes between 'favorite' and 'greatest' machines—these rankings are 'greatest by objective design merit' not personal preference. Star Trek is personal favorite but not on greatest list.

    high · Dennis: 'These are not my favorite games...if it was my favorite games, I probably would have had Star Trek on my list, and it's not going to be here.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Narrative of competitive positioning between Steve Ritchie and Pat Lawler regarding layout design superiority. Ritchie's Elton John definitively establishing him as superior layout designer to Lawler in host's assessment.

    medium · Host: 'Steve Ritchie and Pat Lawler always kind of had it against one another...when Steve Ritchie comes over...designed a better layout than all three of those Pat Lawler. That is what made definitively, in my mind, Steve Ritchie is the better geometric layout designer.'

    • 2:26
    I've got mine set up so that I don't get the down the middle feed out of the pops. It very rarely happens and stuff. The shots feel interesting. Overall, I enjoy the layout, but it's definitely not for everyone. But the bottom line is Bloodbath is a great mode. You've got the value to trying to get those drops down in a particular order. You need to shoot those drops, which are not safe in order to get any mode progress going on. So the other thing is, of course, the theme integration for it is actually pretty bad. Yeah, it's not. In terms of the just generic Southern voices, even for a DMD-era game, they just didn't get a lot to work with other than for the cab art. Yeah, you're not right there. This is probably why a lot of people think that it's ripe for the remastering. And there are all the rumors that the remaster might be Walking Dead. That would be interesting if they really do that. Anyway, but yeah, no, it's that Lyman rule set, though. It might be. You know, it's so tough. They've got some other really strong rule sets. But I think you could argue it's the best rule set they ever had. Oh, I think that's a strong argument. But combining it all together, I just ended up going ahead and putting it at number five. It's a deeply unapproachable game. Okay, I can see that argument, too. Then what would be number four? The number four Stern pinball machine of all time, in your opinion. I did Deadpool here. Oh, the very approachable Deadpool. Very approachable. So that's one of its major strengths is it was a, unlike Munsters, this didn't work for Munsters, but it did for Deadpool, where, hey, look, this rule set actually doesn't feel like this mile-deep Marianas Trench. let's drown in all these nuance and rules and code sure very straightforward layout is both unique and quite a bit of fun to shoot it is so also not the not the longest player either because of some of the positioning and such uh obviously i'd say the pro the premium le you probably have longer ball times because those drops do help slow the ball down and they do ball down in the and the stand-ups really keep i mean but there's a lot of lower action play field there schnick shot was a It was a really cool concept. Sword Ramp is great.
    4:49
    So well-rounded. And people often complain about how games just don't have any humor anymore. This game is dripping in humor. That's all it is. It's constantly making fun of everything. It's probably the quote-unquote funniest game of the last 20 years. I'm going to hedge my bets with Rick and Morty there. I figured you would. But I'm going to say it's debatable. General comedy, yeah. I give it a dead bull. Rick and Morty can hide behind its profanity is the thing. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and it just showed that Gomez still has it. Like, he could still really do a good design. Yeah, that is true. That is a good point, too, because prior to that – In fact, I think it's his best layout he ever did. It may be, because, yeah, prior to that, I was a little – especially on his Stern games. I mean, it would be debatable because Lord of the Rings layout's really solid, too, and he's got some – I mean, Gomez has a lot of strong layouts, but this doesn't – I mean, but this isn't a fan layout. So good. You know, it's a two-flipper layout, but it's not a fan layout. And it was just – he showed that he could make it work. And it just – the way – it's almost – it's got some weird – almost you could argue some clunky aspects to it, but they're all designed to do something as well. Sure. Yeah. I think a whole other episode would be us arguing whether it's a fan layout or not. But before we move on to number three, I hear some – No, really. It's no argument.
    6:07
    You're wrong. You're wrong if you want to try and argue. I hear some listeners wondering – they're saying, hold up. Is this Dennis's favorite games or is this Dennis's what he thinks are the greatest games? And what I'll preface that with before he answers this. When we did on Straight Down the Middle, we almost kind of had to morph them. So it made things a lot easier because we were saying we don't have to explain it to you. But it was almost as if it was like we do think these are the greatest top five of each manufacturer. But there is some subjective bias there because we tend to like these over these games because we like these types of games more. Like there still was our skew and our preferences on what we think is favorite. But we tried to meld the two. So what is this for you? I don't know. I have no idea what you just asked. It means nothing. Your favorite versus the greatest.
    7:06
    No, these are not my favorite games. Okay. All right. There's some overlap for a variety of reasons. However, everything that I've picked here, the problem is they're best games I really, really like. But, like, for example, if it was my favorite games, I probably would have had Star Trek on my list, and it's not going to be here.
    7:28
    Okay. We got to keep going. We'll figure it out. Okay. What's number three then? All right. So here's the thing. Everything, by and large, so for Walking Dead, that's like a pro pinballer's dream game. That's part of the reason I have it there. Part of the reason I have Deadpool on this list is because it's an example. It might be the last really good example of Stern Pinball doing a game that was ideal for an arcade setting. You didn't need to take it home to learn how to play it. Damn. You didn't. Strong taste. My number three is Jurassic Park. Oh, that's a good pick.
    8:01
    I know it's not your favorite, Elwin. I love it, though. I still love it. I think for doing, and again, it's not a game I've owned, but in terms of, all right, you've got the premium LE, you've got the T-Rex flinging the ball around, the Raptor Pit. For Stern in particular, very good world under glass thing. I know people made fun of the Jeep not being a real Jeep and all of that but it told its own story You going around you rescuing people you trying to save them from the dinosaurs You got to choose your own adventure in terms of how you want to progress through the island So it took its own story. Could have been higher up here on the list. Actually, this is one of my preferred layouts of Elwynn. However, the call-outs are obnoxious.
    8:50
    They can't all be winners. Dead or East. but the smart missile really good, really cool idea there, I just, again it just, it plays really really well and tells a unique story while you're going about doing it, while still being in the world of Jurassic Park but fundamentally I just think that the world set really delivers on this game and it's actually a very fun game to shoot. Yeah, so far all instant classics, yeah there's no hard to argue any of these, what about number two? At number two, I did Jaws.
    9:27
    That's an interesting pick at number two. And had I not had one to put a lot of time in on it, Jaws wouldn't have made this list. Sure. That's what people say. People are big on that, too. And I know I'm not alone on this. A lot of people will probably be like, you know what? Jaws turned out to be – because, all right, theme is great, but let's set that aside because that doesn't make for a great game. That just makes it a great theme. Okay. The way, again, the rule set here, I actually feel like it's, again, it's not going to be Deadpool approachable. However, the integration of what you're doing in the rules to me makes a lot more sense than even Jurassic Park. I get what I'm doing in Jurassic Park. Like, I activate a mode. Okay, now we're going to rescue some people. All right, I got to, here's the DNA. You know, it's got all the key things from the story. But here with Jaws, it feels like you're actually on the boat, on the orca. So because, okay, you need to do something stupid like, oh, we've got to do the knot tying thing. Okay. But, yeah, it was there. And tying knots on a boat makes sense. Just like hunting various sharks makes sense. Just like here's the fin to shoot. Makes sense. The barrels attaching the barrels and the chum. Attaching the barrels so you could do it. Yeah, chumming for the shark. Again, another really unique layout. I would argue the Jurassic Park's layout is probably, for most people, better than the Jaws layout. And, of course, you've got to subtract some points from Jaws because where that fin pops up is Airball City. So some of that, there's an awkwardness to it. It's still a pretty flowy layout, though. Oh, yeah. And, again, very unique compared to everything else that Elwynn had worked on, which is something we've kind of come to rely on. The lighting, though, in the game is stellar. It's actually my favorite lighting package of any of the Elwins that I've played. I haven't played Kong yet, of course.
    11:16
    And so, you know, the unique left side, I just, it's a lot of fun to shoot. The music, though, it pulls you in. You feel like you're out on the water.
    11:27
    So overall, I just think it's... I love hearing that you've really, yeah, Jaws has really grown on you. I mean, I know I liked it, but yeah, actually spending a lot of time with it, I'm like, I actually play it more than Godzilla now. Wow.
    11:41
    I mean, but for those of you who know Greg Bone straight down the middle, he is over the last year telling me the same damn thing when it comes to Jaws. Because he talks about the immersive. He's like, the code is the immersive part. It's crazy how immersive this code can be. This is the rise and the birth of Elizabeth Gieske that people have fallen in love with. The coder on Jaws. Everybody always thinks Nagel and stuff like that. But then this was a lot of Elizabeth Gieske, and everybody's really waiting to see what she does next because of what Jaws has become. It's a very interesting rule set. In my list here, I would say Walking Dead's rule set, I still think, overall, is a better rules package in total. More understandable. Jaws would be the number two. Would be the number two. Wow. And then I think I know where you're going for number one. Do you? Where would I go? The greatest pinball machine from Stern Pinball. I think you're going Godzilla. It has to be Godzilla. It's got to be. It's objectively the right answer. It's still that good. Godzilla's not number one at everything. I already just noted. In this list, Godzilla's number three on rules.
    12:56
    Walking Dead's better on rules, and so is Jaws. I get the argument. I get it. However, Godzilla had so much going on for it. Again, a different layout versus the other two Elwins that I put on my list. That layout is great. But the best layout. It is his best layout. Now, I will note that this number one is very much relying on premium LE. Good point. The building, the rotating shot for the Mechagodzilla, all of that. Yeah, with Tummy Grab. Mechagodzilla Tummy Grab is my favorite. It is my favorite. You know, I used to just think that the satellite on GoldenEye was really cool. but tummy grab is so much better because i get to say tummy grab and it's fun to watch it's like it's got i was like it's the one l1 game where there's like the eight different skill shots and i actually try for multiple different ones oh yeah because it's just like okay yeah i know get this you've got the camp factor is off the charts because they have all those different clips from that first era of godzilla yeah so you've got all of that magnet grab is such a unique novel use of a magnet yes and yeah the magnet grab with a little i mean that you know just that kind of quasi hidden captive ball area to fling up on the left orbit is so very smart it's used a lot and it's it's fun spinners are great placement yeah the spinners you got you've got three different spinners they're all fun to shoot uh you've got that the they're trying to time it to do the you know the the jackpot destruction jackpot shot and the stress of it all and the lighting and the sound.
    14:33
    Okay, so what I don't like. I don't like the rampage mode. It totally disrupts everything. Rampage is annoying. Is that the tank?
    14:43
    No, no. It's the one where you... It's the one where each shot is lit from left to right and you're just... That does go on. It goes on forever and you can't do anything else. There's like a ball save for the first half of it and then afterwards if you drain out of it, you're dead and I don't like it. But the modes and being able to like, all right, which monster, which kaiju are you going to fight? And it gets to like the tier two. So you're going to fight these two together. You could go after King Ghidorah. What are you going to do? Shoot the wamps. And I'm not – I can't tell you like a bunch about Godzilla shows. I haven't – maybe I've seen them all, but I don't constantly – I'm just not a Godzilla person inherently. Not before this game. But the way it brings that all in, you pick the different cities. Again, the mode integration is more in that, let's tie it all to the concept, than it is Jaws where it's like fully world under glass. But I think it does a better job than Jurassic Park does of it.
    15:41
    And so just the change state with the building, though, what a great, what an awesome idea to use a collapsing building and also allowing change state to exist because of that. That's a perfect idea, yeah. I just remember when I this is actually the first game I bought from Flippin' Out Pinball because I went and I played Godzilla and I was like alright this is going in the collection I'm going to buy this and it was the first premium I ever bought that's a good point too what I was going to ask is you've owned Godzilla, you've owned Jaws Deadpool and Walking Dead I still have all four of those And you've owned Jurassic Park Data East, but not Stern. I have not. You're correct. I've owned Data East. So my question is this. You've owned Godzilla and Jaws. If you still own both of those, it's Keith Elwin Games. Do you find that Elwin Games differentiate themselves enough to own – because I know how you like to diversify between different types of designers and whatnot, especially time periods of games sometimes. does it feel too similar and or could you see yourself adding a jurassic park or a king kong or do you think that would not be enough spice in between the different games it would be hard for me to add one of them okay so jaws and godzilla have a similar feels the the layouts are different and maybe it because gieski worked so much on the rules i do feel jaws sort of stands that's true but the other stuff with like godzilla rules versus jurassic park rules versus iron maiden rules i there's still sort of a thing going on there where it's kind of like every shot progresses something at least for a while and i don't know it just yeah i feel like i see the personality there more than i do in the layouts and so no i could probably i could my whole lineup could be elwyns and all the layouts would feel very very distinct but the rules no he has a he has a way he likes his rules done it's a very good way but for home collection especially a smaller collection and which feels weird to say because i have so many games but you know compared to someone like you with you know over a dozen games i i yeah i would just i'd rather have more variety than that and there are some patterns to be found so if jurassic parker kong came in it would probably be once godzilla and or jaws left yeah yeah i mean i probably move one of those on instead or or something um but you know you never know i could also say you know i just i've had walking dead a really long time so like it moving on but again I'd be more apt to say, all right, no, let's bring in a Dungeons & Dragons instead, and we'll get Walking Dead out or something, or Deadpool out. So to recap, listener, Dennis Creasel's top five greatest Stern pinball machines of all time, number five, The Walking Dead, number four, Deadpool, number three, Jurassic Park, number two, Jaws, and number one, Godzilla. For those keeping count, three of the top five are Keith Elwin-designed games. We've got a George Gomez and a Borg in there. The Borg also having a Lyman Sheets code set. Very well done there. Let's jump into Jersey Jack Pinball. All right. Now, a general synopsis on how you feel about Jersey Jack Pinball machines. Very attractive games, but gameplay takes second fiddle to aesthetics. Yeah. I always felt like you were kind of, you know, you describe them as they're fair playing experiences, but nothing that has just over-the-top wowed you to the point of matching that to some of the best Stern pinball machines or Bally Williams games. Having said that, what would be your number five top greatest Jersey Jack pinball machine?
    19:29
    I went Toy Story 4. You've got to friend me. All right. Toy Story 4. Okay. The layout actually is pretty enjoyable. Yeah. I'd love that you got this game in your top five I can die happy when I see it on location and we have had it on location it's a great game I play it I go up and play it yes it plays too long especially if you get that left ball save activated you can't lose for trying but the ramp the little Canadian ramp shot guy I don't know any of these characters. Duke Caboom. Yeah. It's a great shot. It's really fun to hit that. It's fun. It's fun to hit that. I like doing the, I'm all right. You get tired of maybe doing both peep loops, but the little upper flip up there, it's a really good integration on that. Yeah. The shots, the shots, yeah. The shots overall feel pretty good.
    20:32
    Rules are, are all right. That's really what holds it back more for me is the rules. Plus that it's just, it's, I think it's, it's worthy of being in the top five, but it's probably overly easy of a shooter. But because of that, if you want that, this may be one that you'd want to explore more than what I'm going to be naming for my other ones. But, yeah, overall, I think this is a really good package. Almost too approachable for a pinball player, yeah. And it doesn't drown you in multiballs. That's true. In fact, you're going to see a trend on most of these about not drowning. I love the Woody, shoot everything.
    21:09
    No, why am I shooting everything? Good Lord. Nothing special there. Toy Story 4 coming in at number 5, ironically. Then what is number 4 in Jersey Jack Pinball? Okay. So, for me, it's Guns N' Roses. Oh, okay. Not a game I would ever own. See, this is not a favorite. But I think it deserves to be on this list. If for no other reason than it is the best example that up until, I mean, you could argue since it came out, Things like Labyrinth, things like Dune. But when it came to full-on world under glass, I still say this is the absolute best implementation that I have ever seen. Especially the lighting. It set a new benchmark. I mean, it's not just, all right, so here's the idea. Set the standard aside. It's not just that it actually looks like a real rock concert visually. The lighting integration to the songs. The choreographed. Having different things to do for all of the modes. And there are a lot of songs because Slash gave them everything. Yeah, that's true. It is easily, you can argue layout, but beyond that, easily, if you're into bands, it is the best music panel. Just in terms of embracing the idea of having it feel like you're there. And so I give it a lot of credit. It's an experience. completely unbalanced certain songs are just flat out better than others to play too many multiballs all that but it's a reasonable shooter not as good as Toy Story 4 it is the worst shooter of the five JGPs on my list however just in terms of going bottom line is even though I don't love how it all shoots I'm going to put in quarters. I'm going to play live and let die. It's going to happen. It's just how it is. So it is a visual spectacle. It highlights everything that Jersey Jack does best, better than any of their other games. That's a good way to put it. I think this game benefits the most from that capacitor upgrade or the board upgrade to juice those flippers. This game, for whatever reason, seemed to me like it needs it the most. You can inflate somewhere where they're sluggish, and it will ruin the experience for you. Wow. So number four, this is a good list. I like this.
    23:43
    I honestly think I know where you're going for two of them, but there's a wild dog there that I don't know. I think it may come out here at number three.
    23:53
    Maybe. Are you guessing, or will number three amaze you? I'm going to go, damn, what did you go number three? I know what I want you to go, but you didn't. What did you want me to go? I wanted you to take number three and put The Hobbit in there. But I don't. Hobbit was dead last in this round. Oh! So it's not in my top five. It's not in my top five. Okay, he's going Willy Wonka number three. It is. You're correct. It is Willy Wonka. Yeah, Willy Wonka. Okay, I like Toy Story, but Willy Wonka for Lawler is a better layout in practically every way. Yeah, that's the better game. It is a super fun game, and I don't care about this theme. I mean, I watched Willy Wonka a lot as a kid, but when they announced this as a theme, I didn't care. They have the same picture of Wonka all over the play field. The art is one of their less impressive packages, quite frankly, I'm sure because of license or restriction. Nonetheless, very fun game. Gobstopper is a really good toy. It's a good layout. The plunge itself is interesting. Yeah, the whole package there, again, you get the kaleidoscope light show stuff, But I felt like by the time Wonka came out, they were figuring out to make it easier for you to know what to shoot for. So I feel like I know what I'm doing on it. It's harder by far than Toy Story is. It's difficult. It's not drowning you. Yeah, it is. It's a harder game. It doesn't drown you in multi-balls and stuff. But it's immersive. They've tied in really well to the film.
    25:24
    Yeah I just think it a really it kind of like it not the best at anything of my five It not number one at anything which is kind of why it ends up at number three But it solid in every single way It got really good animations The only thing it really honestly lags on is the art package The art package on the play field in particular is not all that impressive to me. I think I would argue that it has better – you're going to say it doesn't have better rules than your number one pick or two. I don't know which way you're going, one and two. I think it has the best rule. It's my favorite rule set in JJP games. It's a good rule set. Number one and two are good rule sets, especially. I'm guessing you're number one. Okay, but until then, what's your number two then?
    26:17
    Dialed in. I knew it. No, I didn't know it. I guessed that wrong. You probably thought it was my number one. I flipped them. So you're going dialed in number two. I am. Dialed in is number two. What a great game. Crazy. Just for the crazy coat. Crazy. All right. What's the worst shot on dialed in? It's a SIM card shot, but that's with the Cliffy protector. But that's a good thing, though, because it's difficulty good. I like how hard that is. Sure. Some people feel like the Cliffy makes it unfair. Okay. Makes it tight. But you don't have to have a Cliffy in it if you don't want to. So, all right. Fun modes. It's honestly, for an original theme, they did a really good job with this. Everyone poo-pooed on it because, one, it's an original theme, which is a fair enough criticism. And two, guy with mom jeans. Mom jeans. All right. Art, maybe. Not maybe. It's the worst in this game than anything. Yeah. Worse than cookie cutter Wonka. Yes. But the modes are creative. They're awesome. It has that Bally Williams feel. Woz and Hobbit don't. This is the one that came closest. If you like the Bally Williams experience, the humor, the mode style like that, this embraced all of it. It doesn't drown you in multi balls. The little stadium studio thing is fun. You know, the spider shot. I couldn't agree more. It is. It's a really good layout. The rules are pretty straightforward. But being able to go in stack, get your SIM cards going and stuff, that's the key to high scoring. That's tough. And it's hard to do. A lot of people, when I play this competitively, hated this game because it was too hard. I didn't think it was too hard. I think this is just the right amount of difficulty that I normally am looking for in a game. Oh, you nailed it. I'm 100% with you there. It's the perfect amount of difficulty. And so it's my number two. I like the magnet use in that game, too. In the modes and stuff, they got it under the play field like Adam's Family. That is a cool – you make me want that game. Damn. Yeah, I've been tempted several times to get one. I never ended up doing it. And you can find them pretty easily. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But no. And for a long time, yeah, it was my favorite JJP game. Until the number one, which, in your opinion, is the greatest Church Jack pinball machine. And it is. You got to hold it closer, Elton John.
    28:41
    Yeah, Elton John, Steve Ritchie's first game at JJP. Okay. You could say, you look at it and you go, I see Star Trek. I see every three-flipper layout that Richie has liked to do. Yeah, but with JJP's bill of materials, I was like, this is not the right theme. And I still think this was not the best theme choice. Elton John is popular, but popular in pinball, you know, it's like the decision to do Godfather. It wasn't that bad of a decision. Don't get me wrong, because at least the music is good. But, no, the shots are a lot of fun. The modes are great. The lighting is right on point. You know, the piano with the little marquee display. That's a really cool toy. Elton looking at you with his little hands. Yeah. You got the little crocodile. You got the little tiny dancer. Again, it doesn't do the full concert embrace in the way that Guns N' Roses sticks you in the concert. This is more like a montage celebrating Elton John. However, the layout is infinitely better than Guns N' Roses. It is. Richie has learned over the years, he does what he does because he knows people enjoy it. And so, all of that put together, like, I could see getting rid of my Star Trek and bringing in Elton.
    29:58
    Because I'm going to have that high-flow beast thing. I'm fine with the music. And it would give me a very different experience in a lot of other ways, in terms of the way the rules progress and the like. So, I was like, I didn't have expectations on what Steve Richie was going to do at JJP because the last few of his Stern games have not resonated with me. This was like, wow, okay. I don't know if it was really Bill of Materials or he was just burned out and jaded at Stern, but he got his mojo back for this game. Absolutely. So much so that over the years, I always viewed, and I think a lot of people, even these guys did, I think that Steve Ritchie and Pat Lawler always kind of had it against one another for who's the better designer, who's got the best layouts, who does the most with their games. For me, when Steve Ritchie comes over to Jersey Jack Pinball, at that time, listener, we had Pat Lawler, who had three attempts at creating a Jersey Jack Pinball machine, all of which ended up in Dennis' top five list. So not to be taken lightly, Toy Story, Willy Wonka dialed in. But it was when Steve Ritchie came over there and with his first design game for Jersey Jack, designed a better layout than all three of those Pat Lawler. That is what made definitively, in my mind, Steve Ritchie is the better geometric layout designer of pinball machines than Pat Lawler.
    31:31
    It is their greatest layout. Yeah, I think so. In fact, it's, and again, everything, and we'll see, we'll ultimately see how it all shakes out. But when we were in the main episode discussing like phase three of Trough Jam versus phase two, if Steve had done this for Harry Potter, I would have said Harry Potter would have won on all fronts. Like I think that layout can go against Kong. I want more magic in a layout for that particular thing. Oh, no, no, man. That's the thing. There would have to be some things different, obviously, and rules are going to be a big part of that in terms of what – but also the layout to try and accommodate a different world. Because now you've got elements from a story that you have to do. It can't just be going around pianos and famous things from songs. But that flow – But you're right. That layout is a winner. I'm not saying it beats Kong. I'm saying it's the only thing in my mind currently that J.J.P. could do that would have had a chance. Yeah, I get that. But we'll see. Eric might pull something out. But if, Steve, I put this effort in on a Potter game, I would have been very interested to see what it would have been like. I might have actually cared about the theme at that point. And us doing this top five list for you, Dennis, in 2025, it'll be interesting to see where the juggernauts of Harry Potter and of King Kong a year from now or two years from now, if they fall into these top five lists. I think it's going to be really interesting. Even more so is right now, I think it could be argued that Jersey Jack is still kind of the number two fighter in this industry against Stern Pinball. I think it's Stern Pinball and then quite a few rungs down before we get to another manufacturer. But I could see the argument of Jersey Jack maybe being that second rung in this industry in 2025, maybe even more so once Harry Potter comes out. But I like that we started this top five segment with Stern Pinball and Jersey Jack Pinball. But, yeah, I think those two, Stern and Jersey Jack, being the first part of this segment, maybe we come back, Dennis, and hit people in another bonus episode. Maybe we give them a little Chicago Gaming Spooky and American. Or maybe we shift it to more Bally Williams stuff or Sega Data East stuff. We could go so many places. But for right now, I think people loved hearing and may be surprised by some of your choices. on the top five greatest stern pinball and Jersey Jack pinball machines of all time via Dennis Creasel. Thanks so much, Dennis. You're welcome.
    34:04
    Y'all can push stop.