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DPP #109 "Foo Accessories! BBQ blowback! Kickstarter!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·45m 7s·analyzed·Mar 13, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Foo accessory pricing blowback; Barbecue theme analysis; ABBA machine rumor from Pinball Brothers.

Summary

Don discusses Foo Fighters accessory pricing criticism ($2,000 topper, $225 shooter rod, $250 armor), analyzes American Pinball's Barry's Barbecue Challenge gameplay and theme positioning, and speculates on Pinball Brothers' rumored ABBA machine based on leaked helicopter imagery from the album cover.

Key Claims

  • Foo Fighters topper touted as 'fully animatronic' but is actually just a head servo that swivels left/right with LED lights, not true animatronic

    high confidence · Don compares to Black Knight and Labyrinth toppers, notes: 'A head on a servo that swivels back and forth... I don't know if that rises to the level animatronic. Maybe minimatronic? So I think that is oversold a bit.'

  • Foo Fighters topper priced at $2,000; community consensus on Facebook was universally negative about pricing

    high confidence · Don posted on Facebook and received ~30 comments saying 'not worth the money,' 'What are they trying to do to us?' Community sentiment that it's not as good as Black Knight topper.

  • Expression lights for Foo took a year to develop but are essentially same bar as Led Zeppelin with only plastic sticker difference

    high confidence · 'The only difference is the little plastic sticker that goes over it... you get the lighting strips, which already have the pre-applicated aforementioned sticker on it.'

  • Shooter rod priced at $225; Rush shooter rod was $179-189, indicating price creep

    high confidence · Don notes price increase: 'I think it was like $189 or $179 [for Rush]... prices are going up man'

  • Barry's Barbecue Challenge features confusing theme identity; unclear who Barry O is to general public

    high confidence · Don: 'Tell me, who's Berrio? What's the challenge? Am I challenging Barry O to a cook-off? Am I playing as Barry O? Am I hunting Barry O with a chainsaw? Like, what's the theme here?'

  • American Pinball released Barbecue same day as announcement; same-day location availability was successful launch strategy

    high confidence · Don praises: 'they said, look, we're going to release this game this weekend... the day that we unveil, you can actually go out to a local location and play it. And bravo, applause.'

  • Pinball Brothers has leaked ABBA machine; helicopter imagery from Arrivals album cover featured prominently

    medium confidence · Don: 'Pinball Brothers put out like two days ago... that big glass cockpit helicopter... featured prominently on the album cover of the fourth release from ABBA, Arrivals... That helicopter is in the ABBA Museum in Stockholm, Sweden'

Notable Quotes

  • “Is this topper $2,000? This is pinball. This is pinball. This is where we're at.”

    Don @ ~35:00 — Captures frustration with pricing strategy as industry norm

  • “Is this just the R2-D2 topper with the Foo Fighter helmet on top of it and flat plastics? Is that really what we're getting? Is that really $2,000?”

    Don @ ~37:00 — Questions engineering value and whether topper design reuses existing assets

  • “Tell me, who's Berrio? What's the challenge? Am I challenging Barry O to a cook-off? Am I playing as Barry O? Am I hunting Barry O with a chainsaw?”

    Don @ ~45:00 — Highlights theme clarity issue for general audience unfamiliar with pinball community

  • “I want to maintain that objectivity. Because if I'm just shilling a game that I don't really believe in, what use really am I?”

    Don @ ~57:00 — Don addresses tension between factory tour hospitality and honest criticism

  • “If you're a location and you don't already have Jaws Pro, I think it's hard to find a compelling reason to go and choose Berrio's Barbecue Challenge Hot Rugs and Roller Coasters over Jaws.”

    Don @ ~59:00 — Direct market comparison showing licensed IP competitive advantage

  • “The last thing I want to do is build up to a multi-ball in a high-tension situation, and then my reward is more Dancing Queen? That's just not for me, man.”

    Don @ ~70:00 — Personal skepticism about ABBA machine repeatability and theme appeal

  • “they really have everything you could want in a pinball factory... marble floors... climate controlled... everybody was above average.”

    Don @ ~40:00 — Praise of American Pinball facility; establishes Don's positive experience pre-criticism

Entities

DonpersonJack DangerpersonFoo FightersgameBarry's Barbecue ChallengegameAmerican PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyPinball Brotherscompany

Signals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Licensed IP (Jaws) positioned as dominant competitive option over original-license Barbecue at $69.95; location operators face binary choice between iconic license vs. generic theme at same price point

    high · Don: 'you're essentially going head-to-head, straight on with every Stern Pro that's out right now'; 'If you're a location and you don't already have Jaws Pro, I think it's hard to find a compelling reason to go and choose Berrio's Barbecue'

  • ?

    product_concern: Barry's Barbecue Challenge theme lacks clarity for general audiences; 'Barry O' is in-group pinball community reference with no universal appeal; positioning weak against licensed IP (Jaws, Mandalorian, Star Trek)

    high · Don: 'Tell me, who's Berrio? What's the challenge?... for the general public, are they going to understand this?'; notes same issue with Galactic Tank Force; questions location purchasing decision vs. Jaws

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Foo Fighters topper marketed as 'fully animatronic' but mechanical design is single servo motor head rotation with LED lighting; not comparable to Disney-style animatronics or even prior Stern toppers with multiple degrees of freedom

    high · Don: 'A head on a servo that swivels back and forth... I don't know if that rises to the level animatronic. Maybe minimatronic?'; speculates topper may be R2-D2 design with cosmetic modification

  • ?

    leak_detection: Pinball Brothers leaked helicopter imagery from ABBA's Arrivals album cover ~2 days prior to podcast; positioned as confirmation of rumored ABBA machine in development

    medium · Don: 'Pinball Brothers put out like two days ago... that big glass cockpit helicopter... featured prominently on the album cover of the fourth release from ABBA, Arrivals'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.135

0:00
Are you ready for a podcast? What's going on everybody? Don's Pinball Podcast, episode number 109. Are you ready for TPF? It's coming up. We got Foo Fighter accessories. We got Tanner Walters, Kickstarter, Children's Book to talk about. All that and more by a game from Mad Pinball. Let's go, brothers!
0:30
I'm ready to bring the heat to your grill meat, or to your fired smoker up, your Weber, whatever you got, big green egg, whatever's sitting there in your backyard. I hope it's a pizza oven. Maybe we'll get to it. Don is here for you. I'm here to convey to you really the pulse of what's going on in the industry at the moment. 10 a.m. today, Tuesday, March 12th, we've got the release of the accessories for Foo Fighters. Jack Danger's Magnum Opus, or at least the prelude to what will be a further exciting career in pinball. We've got toppers. We've got side blade armor. We've got arc blades. We've got expression lights. Has anybody really been waiting for those? I mean, honestly, we got a shooterata. We got a lot of feedback. So let's pop over to Nap Arcade where we'll go for the rundown of the pricing he's been able to put together. So first off, the topper, right? It's been speculated that we were going to have some sort of toy integrated topper. Something fantastic was in the works for Foo Fighters. We've seen it. What we've seen, is it amazing? Yeah, it's pretty cool. Is it expensive? Oh, absolutely, my dear sweet summer child. talking about $2,000. Let's get into it. So we got a little sizzle reel trailer from Jack Danger himself. Always a pleasure to look upon his visage as he takes us through the accessory package. Started with a topper, like started off with a bang. So what we got was what was purported to be a fully animatronic foobot head in the center of the topper. Now, there was speculation that we were going to see the second coming of the Black Knight topper. I have one of those on top of my Black Knight Sword of Rage. And it is amazing. has got like two or three degrees of freedom. It looks back and forth. It nods up and down. It head bangs. The little feather in its cap is bouncing all over the place. He's taunting me. His face turns different colors. He's got fires blazing in either side of him. It's pretty amazing. Flat plastics for the most part with LED boards, but you get a fully sculpted plastic head. So it's cool. And a feather. And there's a feather in the cap. So Yankee Doodle, he is. It's awesome. So this was supposed to be more of that. Now, what we got for a purportedly fully animatronic topper was a cylinder head of the FooBot, which turns left and right. Now, he's got some cool integrated kind of LED flashing lights, you know, for his visage on his visor and also the mouth. So I get that. I love the voice that comes out. It sounds like there's going to be new call-outs with this, too. Are we going to get that without the topper, or is that going to be topper exclusive? I don't know. Otherwise, we've got flat plastics with LEDs behind them. probably some flashers that are buried in there. We didn't get like a whole nice straight down the middle style sizzle reel or anything. But we also got what looks to be lit inserts, one for each of the band members. You know, you hit the shot, you collect the characters, it fills up. Sounds like there's a new multi-bowl mode. I think they called it like, you know, band toy or something, whatever. So that's what it is. Is it animatronic though? When I think of animatronic, me being a theme park nerd, I'm thinking, you know, Disney quality, poorly articulated, you know, either electrical, induction or hydraulic or some such, you know, like Pirates of the Caribbean or something. A full figure moving around with multiple degrees of freedom and things. Not what we got here. It looks like we probably got a head on a servo that swivels back and forth. I don't know if that rises to the level animatronic. Maybe minimatronic? So I think that is oversold a bit. Regardless, the topper on its own, the topper's cool, right? Sits up there, flashes, interactive with the game, adds an extra mode, probably some extra call-outs, everything we could want, right? Look at the Godzilla topper. Added a new mode, flat plastics, the same sculpt from the game, nothing's actually moving, and retailed $9.99. If this topper was $9.99, I think we would have been fine with it. But I went ahead and posted at the release. I shared this on the Facebook page, and I'm like, guys, I don't know if I'm really feeling this. What are your thoughts? And just about universally, I got about 30 comments that were just like, not worth the money. What are they trying to do to us? You know, I was expecting more. You know, it's not even as good as the Black Knight topper. I really wanted it. You know, Jack is selling this as, like, the best topper ever made. And I kind of have the Goblin topper from Black Sabbath, no, from Labyrinth right behind me here. Now, let's compare and contrast a little bit. You know, the current hot topper is the Labyrinth topper, the Goblin topper. Three goblins, sculpted, rubber, resin, whatever they are. You know, there's hair on them. I mean, it's not just a plastic sculpt, not a flat plastic, not just a resin cast, but it looks like a puppet head, right? Now, we don't have any moving jaws or anything. Essentially, we've got two servo motors that swivel the two heads on either side back and forth. Not too dissimilar from what I'm imagining is under the hood of the foobot right here as he looks left and right. There's even LEDs in the face. Black Knight Sword of Rage has LEDs in the face. The goblins have LEDs in the face. So what are you getting at, Don? Well, I think bull toppers are cool. Black Knight topper, $1,500. dollars you know a little the upper end but i had to have it super cool goblin topper one thousand dollars three-dimensional sculpted huge twice twice the height of a stern topper it probably won't fit in most people's basements it's amazing one thousand dollars this two thousand dollars now when you do something like that you're gonna press me i'm gonna be a little more critical than it would be if this thing was 8.99 for sure if this topper was 7.99 hey jeffrey how you doing if this topper was $7.99 all day. I'd get two of them. At $1,000, again, I think I'm sold. $1,200, I get what you're doing. Okay, fine. $2,000. I'm just not there. I'm not there. I think the manufactured scarcity that's rumored to be going on with this, it's not great. I don't feel great about it. Now, I don't have my Foo Fighters anymore, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a topper because maybe I'd pick up a Foo again later down the road. It is fun. I was actually playing my Foo Fighters that I sold last week. And I'm like, dang it, I kind of want this back. Game is super cool, right? So that's what we have. What I'm hearing from folks that would kind of know, you know, now that we are several hours down the road, things selling pretty well, probably it's going to sell out. Now, maybe Stern is thinking, you know what, we could go ahead and sell 500 of these today at $799 or $1,000. But maybe we'll sell 250 for 2,000, make the same amount of money and spend less time putting these things together. Maybe that's what they're thinking. And if these things sell out, then their decision was the right decision from a business standpoint so I don't know if I still had my Foo Fighters me, a topper guy I still don't know if I would have jumped at the $2,000 but who knows, maybe they're going to make $250 of them, maybe they're all going to sell out and maybe they're going to be selling for $3,500 next week because everybody missed out on it, I don't know, I don't know the market but those are my thoughts on it I think it's cool, I'm not holding the feet of Jack Danger to the fire at all I'm sure he was heavily involved in the construction of this thing. He was probably given a budget to work with. He probably came in and gave us everything he could for that budget. And then the corporate decisions being the corporate decisions, here's where they are. Now, is this a harbinger of things to come where toppers will go from $1,400 to $2,400 as normal? I hope not. I hope not because I do like the interactivity. However, the shining light to that, the shining silver lining to that black rain cloud would be the aftermarket topper community community, who I guess I'm part of now because I make toppers, I think it would help out. Putting out a topper at a $500 price point would be a lot more attractive, I think. Let's move on. What else did we get? Let's get to the expression lights. People have been waiting for these expression lights since a year. It's been a year for these things. People were waiting for them for Rush. I don't know that enough people bought Led Zeppelin necessarily to want to wait for these, but nevertheless, we've got the expression lighting. The price went up. They're $499. You get the same bar of lights you would get with the Led Zeppelin, with the Foo Fighters. The only difference is the little plastic sticker that goes over it. If you've ever seen a naked expression light bar, it's just one long, almost like a pin stadium-like light bar, that they just put the sticker over with the little cutouts and everything. So, you know, do with that information what you will. But you get the lighting strips, which already have the pre-applicated aforementioned sticker on it. Plus you get like a tiny little art blade that goes underneath it to kind of finish that look. it's got the same graphics as the LE ArtBlades or the LE Expression lights just in a different kind of red hue so there you go they're available for the premium it says they're not available for the pro the pro cabinet is not routed to accept the inserted lights does that not mean that we can't just stick them in there anyway or you know route your cabinet or just you know affix them and see how they do I don't know I don't know if you hooked them up would they not work just fine I doubt you know they've subtracted something in the technology of the pro versus the premium just to prevent somebody from taking premium lights and slapping them in a pro somebody experiment you know and let us know but expression lights they're available $4.99 who knows how long they're going to be making them they never announce this kind of thing uh call your distributor right now call jeff and madpinball.com or i guess you would email them uh and get yourself a set he's probably going to have some coming and then you know are these something that's going to be you know here going forward in production or is it going to be like every other accessory package where they're made they're available then they're unavailable and you're just SOL until they decide to bless us with more things. What else do we got?

  • Stern may be intentionally limiting Foo Fighters topper production (manufactured scarcity) to sell fewer units at higher price point

    medium confidence · Don speculates: 'Maybe they're thinking... we could go ahead and sell 500 of these today at $799 or $1,000. But maybe we'll sell 250 for 2,000, make the same amount of money and spend less time putting these things together.'

    • ABBAgame
    Buffalo Pinballperson/entity
    Jawsgame
    Jeff / Mad Pinballperson/company
    Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
    Labyrinthgame
    Hot Wheelsgame
    David Fixperson
    Ronperson
    Genghisperson
    Pulp Fictiongame
    Led Zeppelingame
    Rushgame
    $

    market_signal: Secondary pinball market experiencing soft demand; used game prices declining; Don notes used Black Knight Sword of Rage available cheaper than new Barbecue; market cooling despite continued new releases

    medium · Don cites Buffalo Pinball observations: 'the market is down. The market is not like the cryptocurrency currently. It in a dip'; Don picked up used BKSR 'for solid score cheaper' than Barbecue

  • ?

    community_signal: Don's factory tour created tension between honest criticism and relationship management; explicitly addresses challenge of balancing objectivity when invited as guest; concerned about being perceived as 'shill'

    high · Don: 'I want to be invited back, but I want to do it if I can be helpful and truthful and objective'; 'if I'm just shilling a game that I don't really believe in, what use really am I?'

  • $

    market_signal: Foo Fighters topper at $2,000 represents significant price increase over precedents (Black Knight $1,500, Labyrinth $1,000); community backlash on social media universal; Don questions sustainability of 'manufactured scarcity' strategy

    high · Don reports ~30 Facebook comments saying 'not worth the money'; questions whether Stern selling 250 units at $2,000 instead of 500 at $799 despite same revenue; topper may sell out at inflated price

  • ?

    product_strategy: American Pinball executed successful same-day launch strategy; game available at locations same day as official announcement; pre-recorded gameplay stream prepared to support launch; improved marketing approach vs. prior releases

    high · Don: 'they said, look, we're going to release this game this weekend... the day that we unveil, you can actually go out to a local location and play it. And bravo, applause'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern accessory development pipeline shows slow iteration; Foo expression lights took ~1 year with minimal engineering changes (same bar, different sticker) vs. Led Zeppelin baseline

    high · Don: 'People were waiting for these expression lights since a year... The only difference is the little plastic sticker that goes over it... so there you go they're available for the premium'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Aftermarket topper and accessory ecosystem positioned as superior value alternative; Don notes aftermarket armor available 'for way less money right now' with 'better detail' than official $250 option

    medium · Don: 'the aftermarket's got a lot better detail for way less money right now'; encourages community: 'you know, experiment and let us know' about aftermarket options

    • 10:00
    We got a shooter rod for Foo Fighters. The shooter rod for Foo Fighters looks like that clear plastic bomb that's on top of the van. I dig where they're going with it. From a tangential touch aspect, I don't know if this thing's going to feel great in the hand with the fins on that rocket there. I don't know. At the same time, I don't know that I would want to grab Dave Grohl's face either as a shooter rod. I think you'll get into the days of the Black Knight shooter rod which looks amazing, Elvira shooter rod which is amazing, this one kind of falls you know, I guess between there and Led Zeppelin, Led Zeppelin wasn't too bad though, it looked like a beer tap honestly so shooter rods being shooter rods it lights up which is cool, I like that there's clear plastic, I love lit shooter rods I love the one for Stranger Things still waiting for it Jeff where's my stuff at also Rush had the same light of shooter light I like that. Right now on my Stranger Things, I took an extra Rush shooter rod that I had. I plugged it in. The lights work the same. They're just in red. And I made a translucent D20 shooter rod for Stranger Things to hold me over until I get the official one. And I kind of dig it. Now I took the same shooter rod back when I had Foo Fighters and I hooked it up and I didn get any light feedback or anything So at the time my thought was well it just not coded in there yet And so maybe that the case And one of the later code updates it was made active But it looks like you get green lights maybe different changing colors to that I do love a little shooter rod. You get a shooter plate, which looks like it's got the graphics on it already. That's what we saw in the video. It looks like a bomb. It's part acrylic, part black. It's going to fit in your hand. You know, you can get nice aftermarket shooter rods starting at around $50. This thing is only $225 For the official Shooter rod it does light up Which you know admittedly you know pretty cool But gosh man $225 I'm trying to think of how much I spent For these rush shooter rods I think it was like $189 or $179 So prices are going up man I don't know is it worth it to you Side armor side armor is available The side armor looks like the black wrinkle powder coated Angled armor that you would get That just came out with Jaws Premium It has a laser-cut Foo Fighter logo on the side. And then they really touted this rainbow-embossed foil back graphic or whatever. So I just went to Michael's to go pick up some foil cardstock for some other laser-cut armors that I have. And there's like $2.99 a sheet. So there's, I don't know, $1.50 worth of rainbow glitter cardstock behind the armor there. Is this worth $250? The shooter rod's $2.25, $25 more than that. You get a couple of stock armors that, you know, don't have really like laser cut embellishments as far as like the profile. It's just the logo that's in there. I think the aftermarket's got a lot better detail for way less money right now. Sure enough, I'm sure they're going to look good on your game. They're going to fit 100%. They're not going to violate any warranties. You're going to get some rainbow foil. They look good. They would look great at $110. At $249.99, they just aren't looking that good. I'm going to be more critical when you're asking me for that price, sir. You know, we are friends. We are family, you know, and if you're asking me for $110, I'm asking you how quickly can you ship them to me. If you're asking me for $250, you know, I'm going to be a little more critical with you. You know what I mean? That's just where I'm at. Art Blades, $99. A steal. Reasonably priced. I get it. That's great. You know, aftermarket, $89 to $129, depending on how much foil you want in them. It's weird, though. I don't know why they did this. So the LE official ones and the premium ones both have the same kind of graphic. Looks like Area 51. You're out in the desert. a green hue for the limited edition and a red hue for the premium. And then this one, it says it's just for the pro, but does that mean you can't throw it in your premium if you don't put expression lights in it? But the graphic on there just looks like it's the inside of the cardboard box that this fictitious play set for this Saturday morning cartoon that they invented would come in. And I just don't think it looks as compelling.
    14:00
    Now these are official. They have to get approved by licensor. Maybe this is what the licensor wanted and that's what they made. And so they understood the assignment and they turned in their work and it's appropriate. But for me, I'm liking just any of the other myriad of aftermarket, again, Art Blades or even the graphics from the Premium LE. I like those better. I wish I would have done one with that. Maybe there's a good compelling reason why they didn't, but here's where we're at. So if you were to buy all of these, you were at $3,999. No, no, $3,999 if you were to go ahead and get these. That's a lot of money, yo. Especially if you could have got the LE for the $3,000 extra. You could have got the expression lights, the art blades. You wouldn't have got the shooter rod, though, and you sure wouldn't get the topper. So who's losing out here? I guess if you bought the premium, then all in for the price of an LE, you can get totally decked out in top-of-the-line Stern accessories. If you got the LE, you're reaching even more. Although the armor on the LE does look better than what's available with the lower trim levels. I don't know, man. And I'm just happy they're finally out. The two things going against this is it took a year to get here. And I don't know why because what I'm seeing, although it looks great, doesn't look like it's a year worth of engineering, especially when it's one servo and what's probably a plastic dome that turns back and forth. Did they have extra R2-D2 toppers? And they just added the little horns to the Foo Fighters guy and put that in there? Is that really what we're dealing with? Is this just the R2-D2 topper with the Foo Fighter helmet on top of it and flat plastics? Is that really what we're getting? Is that really $2,000? This is pinball. This is where we're at. If you want to get these accessories, email jeff at madpinball.com. Northeastern Ohio's greatest purveyor of all things pinball and not a bad-looking guy. Go ahead and email him. Tell him I sent you. Tell him you think he's great. Tell him you hope he has a great dinner. He's probably going to be a TPF. He's probably going to get at me, and we're going to hang out. Maybe we'll slap box or something. I don't know. It's going to be fun. But go ahead and hit up Jeff over there and the fine folks at the Mad Pinball Arena. Now, let's get to the fun part. Let's talk about barbecue. All right. So my last episode, I kind of went over my thoughts immediately after coming back from the factory down there in East Palestine, Ohio or something at the American Pinball Factory. Thank you so much for inviting me down there. Ron and David Fix, cool people. Everybody I met there, super awesome. Great marble floors. Love the break room. I wish my break room had six machines in it. And, you know, love the factory. They really have everything you could want in a pinball factory. If you were building pinball machines, if you were building like ten pinball machines a week, this is the kind of place you would want to have. Everything is there, and it's climate controlled, and the people are nice and friendly, and everybody was above average. So loved it. Now, I came back, and I had fun playing the game, and that's what I was trying to convey and get across. I did say that I could not hear the music very well on the test machine that we were using, though I did hear the call-outs and they sounded just fine. Loved the lights. The shots felt good. It wasn't any tight Houdini shots or anything. But, you know, we're here now, and I've listened to Buffalo Pinball's eviscerating take on this game. I listened to the pinball show yesterday and just their takedown, and I don't think that their concerns are without merit, all right? Now, I did happen to mention, regardless of how we think this game is, what we would have wished we would have gotten, I know we're screaming American Pinball, please make licensed themes for us that we want to play that we must have. That's what we want. We don't want a game that we see and we're like, okay, I guess I'll get it. We want something that, like, I can't wait until I get this. Where's my game? Call my distributor. Where is it at? That's what we want. And licenses drive that. But we've heard from Dave that that's just not where he's at. So here's the bottom line about this game. This is the game that they wanted to make in the way that they wanted to make it. There it is. all of our, you know, kind of complaining, constructive criticism, pushback, eviscerations, you know, black charcoal, grilling. It's not going to change that. So this is what we have. This may be the standard that we get going forward. Galactic tank force, barbecue. The next game will be fish tank. And then, you know, who knows what laundry day is after that, day at the beach, whatever it is. You know, these themes that they can control and own. A lot of the concerns, though, like using Barry O's name, which is a name among us who are nerdy enough to actually listen to pinball podcasts, but for the general public, are they going to understand this? We saw the same kind of issue with a theme with Galactic Tank Force. When it came out, it was kind of like, okay, this is a brand new original theme. We don't have a connection to it. You've got to tell us what the heck is going on. What is the story of this? This game is called Berrio's Barbecue Challenge Hot Rods and Hamburgers or something. And so tell me, who's Berrio? What's the challenge? Am I challenging Barry O to a cook-off? Am I playing as Barry O? Am I hunting Barry O with a chainsaw? Like, what's the theme here? Playing the game, the game played just fine. I loved the bash locks. I loved ripping the ramps with the spinners. You know, I was slap-saving my ball, hitting those posts and things. Like, the game shoots good. The game is more compelling than Hot Wheels is for me, but I need to be invested in it. You know, I was praising them, man, because at the time when I was there, they said, look, we're going to release this game this weekend. It's not out yet, but the game is already either at locations or will be there tomorrow. So the day that we unveil, you can actually go out to a local location and play it. And bravo, applause. That was a great way to launch a title. Here's our title. Go play it. It's out right now. The other thing that they were saying is that we're going to have a launch stream, too. I mean, they started streaming a few weeks ago for a reason, And that reason was to work out the kinks so that they could be ready when this game drops to have a good gameplay stream, which is exactly what you need to do. You release a game. You release the one sheet of the facts. We know where to go get it. We know the price of it. We'd like to know when they're being made. Is this going to be something I'm going to expect in six months or six weeks or six days? But I want to see gameplay, and I want to see high-quality gameplay. I don't want to see, you know, the community have to provide that, you know, through, you know, the first person to get there with a cell phone camera and like and then it gets buffered through the Internet or through tick tock. And like we're just seeing everything through this lens and through public Wi-Fi and it's grainy, you know, captured on a potato and you're not getting the best feel for the game. You can't hear the music, can't hear the call outs, can't really see the lights. You can see the ball moving around, but like you can see the game field or you can see the LCD screen, but not both at the same time. Like you need a high quality stream, especially when you have an original license, man, because we don't know anything about this. And so that still hasn't happened. I don't know what's going on. Maybe their camera fell in the toilet. I don't know. I'm happy to come down and help stream. If I can be helpful, let me know. I want to play more pinball. I like streaming pinball. If I can help you be more successful so you can stick around and hopefully get to that license game, that's what I want. So, you know, go listen to some of the other takes on it. You know, I was excited because I got to go play it. But from what I understand, a lot of the other people that are early commenting are commenting based on just footage that's been released and just kind of their own thoughts of the theme but not of actually playing it. So I can't wait until after Thursday at TPF. People will have had chances to play it. We'll hear more about the feedback at least and what they think of the shots. I think it shoots good. I think it shoots really good.
    21:24
    I think it shoots as good as Hot Wheels. Hot Wheels for me, while some people say it's their best shooting game, I think it shoots great. It shoots better than Houdini, right? The shots aren't tight. The gameplay just isn't very compelling. I don't care about the modes. They don't make any sense to me. And, you know, it's like I'll play it in a tournament, but I'm not compelled to go back and play it. But I will say it's not mechanistically complex. It seems to not have problems with maintenance from operators I've talked to. It seems to earn pretty well. It's got a recognizable license. So hopefully this game would do something similar for them or for a location that puts it out. But here's the bottom line. This is a game that's got a bit of a confusing presentation. Who's Barry O? Why should I care if I'm the average person? Why am I going to go over and put money in this and not Star Wars or Mandalorian or Star Trek or Rick and Morty or something like that? It's $69.95. There are some incentives for locations above that as well. But you're essentially going head-to-head, straight on with every Stern Pro that's out right now. And from what Buffalo Pinball was saying, the used market now. People are selling games and the market is down. The market is not like the cryptocurrency currently. It in a dip So I picked up a Black night sort of rage for solid score cheaper uh than uh than barbecue here Um, you know, but then at the same time we have a food fighters topper. That's $2,000. That's one third of a barbecue. You're charging me one third of a barbecue for a topper man. And it's not fully animatronic. It just swivels back and forth. R2D2 is not fully animatronic either. I'm on a rant. We're going to pull back a little bit. Calm down, Don, uh, get your diet Coke, chill out. Uh, so that's barbecue. So it's interesting hearing other people's thoughts, and I get it. I do. I definitely don't want to just be a shill and tell people this is the second coming just because I was invited to the factory. But I want to be invited back, but I want to do it if I can be helpful and truthful and objective, and I want to maintain that objectivity. Because if I'm just shilling a game that I don't really believe in, what use really am I? So that's the game. I did a video about it with Genghis this morning. Go check it out on his YouTube channel, retrojingo.com. It's C-E-N-G-O. I'll put a link in my Facebook page. Go check that out. But this was kind of what we were saying, just going about the theme, how compelling it is, how's it going to do on location, and just, you know, Don, are you buying one? That's what he asked me. And partially, I'm out of room. I'm beyond the point of being out of room right now. So I have one more game on order, Pulp Fiction. Thankfully, it's not here yet, so I can free up some room. I don't know where I'm going to put it. If I find the invoice tomorrow, we're going to have to do something. So, no, I didn't go and purchase this game. It doesn't mean I'm not interested in it. It doesn't mean I don't want to play it some more. But if it's going head-to-head with the likes of Foo Fighters Pro, Jaws Pro, that's a difficult decision to make. I think if you're a location and you don't already have Jaws Pro, I think it's hard to find a compelling reason to go and choose Berrio's Barbecue Challenge Hot Rugs and Roller Coasters over Jaws. I mean, iconic, you know, is there a movie poster that can say so much showing so little as Jaws? And that is the power of license. And we all want them to do that. They obviously understand that and they don't want to do it. So I'm not going to rag on American Pinball and say you guys really need to get the license. What are you doing? They're doing what they want to do. And they have their reasons. And I'm not privy to all the marketing information and know-how and focus groups and whatever they've done. So they're doing what they want to do. and so we're it's their world and we're just living in it but are we buying the game that will remain uh to be seen speaking of games that we will wait to see how well they sell how about abba how about mama mia how about the rumored next title from the pinball brothers they've been leaking some uh information there was that bell helicopter uh image that pinball brothers put out like two days ago um you know the kind that you would rec you would recognize from the opening of M.A.S.H., right? That big glass cockpit helicopter. So it featured prominently on the album cover of the fourth release from ABBA, Arrivals, the one that had Dancing Queen on there and I think Money, Money, Money, or maybe that was Pink Floyd. Anyway, it's clearly lifted from the album cover. That helicopter is in the ABBA Museum in Stockholm, Sweden, which is the home country of ABBA. ABBA, you know, platinum blonde, platinum selling 70s disco band, earworm soundtrack to the film and stage production of Mamma Mia you know so I get it what I'm not getting is probably the game I don't know if I could stomach having an ABBA machine in home folks that I've talked to you know I have a virtual pinball machine and when I pick games that are you know I load it up and I just go alphabetical order and flip through to find something ABBA is the first one that comes up it launches right into Dancing Queen and it's like I can only listen to that so many times So the last thing I want to do is build up to a multi-ball in a high-tension situation, and then my reward is more Dancing Queen? That's just not for me, man. And, like, I would play Katy Perry. I'd play Taylor Swift. I would love another Dolly Parton machine. Like, women all day. You know, I'm not, like, super macho guy. Like, it's got to be five-finger death punch or nothing. But, honestly, who is this game for? Now, this is a European company headquartered in Sweden with a factory in Italy. you know so maybe they're maybe it's more of a european bent uh maybe uh this is a game that's really made for the european market and we are only secondary and i'm totally missing it you know because of i got eagle land blinders on uh so i went over to the uh the french facebook pages a paris pinball addict and such and um you know reading their response it's exactly the same as us like who is this game for who asked for this why are you doing this and um zach from the pinball show brought up a good point. There's a lot of effort and a lot of time that's put into developing these games. These aren't, you know, easy to make. These aren't flash cell phone games. You know, this isn't, you know, shoot the ball and hide the worm. This is a complex machine that's difficult to manufacture. It's a very niche market. And, you know, when you pull it off successfully, magic happens. And if you're shy of the mark by like 10%, it can really suffer. And then you're stuck in a money hole of a product that you've invested in spare parts to make and manufacture and transportation. You know, this isn't something that's available as a downloadable game, you know, on stream or something. Like, this comes the size of a refrigerator and twice as heavy. Like, this is a difficult device to market and sell correctly. You have not only the artists that have to come up with the designs. You have to have layout artists that are coming up with the shots and layout. You have to have mechanical engineers, electrical engineers. and computer coders. That code is just a baton death march of putting in numbers and everything and C++ and backslashes and colons, and they have to be in the right spot or it doesn't work. So it's a lot of time and money to come out with a game, any game, whether it's Barbecue or whether it's Godzilla, whether it's Jaws or whether it's ABBA. And so if you're investing that same amount of time, that's a fixed cost, and then you're going to come out with something that really nobody is asking for?
    28:35
    Why? Right? You know, so I was trolling around in the European forums to see, like, are they really hyped for this? Like, you know, ABBA's hitting hard. You know, maybe it's on an upswing. Maybe there's a lot of ABBA covers coming out. Maybe they were hosting Eurovision or something. But, no, the people in France are just as bewildered as we are why this is the case. And so now we're in the situation again that the rumored title is coming out, and we are all hoping that ABBA is a code name and that they are trolling us. Speaking of trolling, today the Pinball Brothers on their Facebook page have launched a new website, and the front page of it looks like something ripped straight out of Stranger Things. It's two children standing in what looks like the main street of Hill Valley facing a movie theater with, like, Stranger Things font for Pinball Arcade or some damn thing. I have no idea where they're going with this. Just completely off the wall. Nothing is congruent with ABBA. would it be great if ABBA was like abracadabra and it's like a Harry Potter or something wouldn't that just be the bees knees and like all would be forgiven so I don't know I gotta imagine the Queen's sales weren't terribly robust I have no idea of a single location that has a Queen machine around me anywhere I haven't trolled pinball map but I go to a lot of places I talk to a lot of people I don't see a lot of Queen pinball machines the only place I see them is pinball expo when I go there I'd like to get some more time on it you know but i've played it um i played it at expo for two years now and it's just not everywhere it's not any of the tournament places i go so i i gotta think that it's not selling very well gtf also i think is in that same camp um alien i've seen you know a little bit more but still not great so i don't know that they have a really heavy hitter sales juggernaut and like if you had a company why the heck would you not want to have something like that why would you not want to do the spooky method and like pursue a license that you can just get all the assets for and at the same time it's something desirable so here's what i would do my free advice to anybody out there uh coming from somebody that knows nothing about pinball manufacturing what i would do by don garrison if i had a pinball company and i wanted to launch that you know maybe after i did my original theme that i could take all the time in the world to make and then put into production sell my 50 to 100 and then fund that next title that would be my license title i would take a list of 10 to 15 licenses that I would just love to have. Jaws, Goonies, Beetlejuice, Batman 89,
    30:57
    you know, that Marshmallow Dubstep guy, Beastie Boys, Tupac, Biggie, Snoop Dogg, Insane Clown Posse, Jimmy Buffett, you know, all of that, all of that. Video game themes, Halo, Harry Potter, Looney Tunes, that's already been done. What am I thinking? Super Mario Brothers, Zelda, Metroid, you know, like the heavy hitters. And then I would go through there and see which ones are even feasible and approachable. And then when I wheel down that list, I'd say, okay, now which ones can I get set up a licensing meeting for? And then I get four of them or so, and then I go to those, and then I see which one's going to give me the most assets, and then that's the machine I make. That's what I would do. I wouldn't go walking through Walmart and be like, there's a fish tank, there's a laundry machine, there's a big screen TV, there's Oreos. Okay, there's my themes. I'm going to go and try to make those. That's how I would approach it, but I'm not in pinball manufacturing, but I am in pinball purchasing and looking around behind me, everything here is a license theme except for the dialed in that I'm borrowing right now so come on man am I taking crazy pills? well that's here in order there but ABBA, that's the rumor so I'm reporting on it I haven't had any official confirmation of that we're going to find out next month, we're not going to find out this week at TPF but we're going to find out next month they're supposed to release what this game is and then I guess open the doors to pre-orders and if it's ABBA, I don't know that there's going to be a deafening roar of hoofbeats beating a path to their door. Speaking of road trips, Tilt Bob Pinball, the guy that made the Elf Homebrew, the Will Ferrell movie, great game, pretty fun. I believe there's a screen in the play field. It seems to be a trend going on nowadays. So he started a company called Tilt Bob because his name is Bob and he's in pinball. Get it? So he's down in Florida, I think, and he's got an original license title. not license, original theme title that he's putting together to make his own pinball machine, to launch his own pinball company, and they released some footage of some gameplay. So that was cool. It was fun to see. This game's called Road Trip. This is a pinball machine about going on a road trip, I guess. The play field looks like one of those, you know, toddler maps where they push around the little Hot Wheels cars and hopefully not choke on them. You know, the art is, you know, not top shelf in appearance. It's probably also not final. So there we go. the shots look interesting and from what I can tell it's a wide body game so way to go swinging out of the gate Till Bob so they're in the stage that we remember Spooky Pinball being in where they need to put together a game it's an original theme and they want to I don't know how many they want to sell Spooky I think was selling 150 and then use that to springboard into licenses and then they're just killing it now so I don't hate that they're doing Road Trip I don't hate that it's an original theme that absolutely nobody's asking for because you gotta to start somewhere. You've got to make a game, get that game sold and then that is going to teach you so much about the manufacturing more than anything else getting your getting your first game out there So we saw Haggis do it with Kelts and then we seen them flounder with Fathom and then, you know, I don't want to get any legal threats or action or anything, but hashtag centaur, hashtag leather jacket. But then for every Haggis, you've got a spooky pinball, which was totally successful with it. So I don't hate the idea of road trip. I think that's perfectly fine. I don't think it's a game that's going to sell 5,000 units, and I don't think that's its intended process. Probably this is a game that's going to be made to sell 50 to maybe 100, and then they'll use that experience and whatever capital that they've got to probably put their next game into production, and hopefully it'll be like a nice license that everybody would like. And who knows? Maybe these guys can turn it into something or just remain a boutique and put out whatever they want to put out. Their business, not mine. But go check out that information. We saw most of the play field, but they did have the back third blocked. My guess is that they might have some mechanisms or some ramps back there which aren't finalized, and they didn't want to put a bad taste in everybody's mouths so they just have them blocked out for now. They may just be 3D prints that aren't painted and aren't final, and so they didn't want to show those off yet. Or maybe they've got something really cool that they're waiting to spring on us.
    35:00
    Either way, what the hell could it be in the back of Road Trip? Maybe they're going to do Aliens. Maybe they're going to do an M. Night Shyamalan on us or something, and the road trip turns out it's all just aliens and we were in the dreams and we are the aliens, man, the whole time. So we'll wait and see what that big reveal is. I will say this. There's cow drop targets. Did you see that? Did you watch the footage? Prototype drop targets, they're calling them, and they're the shape of cows and as white as cows, and they drop into the play field. And for that, I'm thankful. Cow tipping mode, like this opens up all kinds of possibilities. They've engineered wide drop targets. So I guess that's the take-home message there. Let's get into some more positive news. And that was reached out by Tanner Walters.
    35:43
    This guy is the pinball scientist. He's a fifth-grade STEM teacher, I believe, in Minnesota. He's the guy that has that clear acrylic plexiglass EM pinball machine that he uses to teach his students circuitry and interior mechanics and maybe some physics and things. He's developed those cardboard kits where you can have your kids with rubber bands and things make a workable pinball machine and, like, bat around balls of paper or something just to learn, again, physics, science, technology. engineering, math, in a way that's inexpensive and approachable. And so he's putting together a little children's book, one of those kind of thick cardstock books that's going to be like a pop-up book in a way, not that it pops up, but that has interactive elements where you can slide the things around. So he's got himself a Kickstarter. And I said, boy, I'm super thrilled to be able to share this for you. Let me see if I can play a little bit from his trailer that he has. Tanner Walters, a kindergarten through fifth grade STEM teacher in Minnesota. I am looking to publish this book. It's going to be interactive and revolving around STEM and pinball and having fun. So let's get started. So here we have... So what a fun little Kickstarter idea. I won't play the whole video, but I will link to it. I think he's asking for about $35 to kickstart this thing. And it'll be a way that he can raise funds for this book. It looks like it's aimed at ages 1 to 8 and a way to use pinball to teach some STEM topics at age-appropriate levels. and he'd like to get it going. And obviously he needs to raise funds to put this thing into production and you can help him out. So I'll put a link up there, happy to help out. Super swell guy. He was selling his kits at Expo this last year. Hopefully he'll be down there at TPF as well. So swell dude, shout out to him. What else do we got? TPF's coming up. All right, let's get to the meat and potatoes here. You know, turn the grill off. Oh, by the way, with barbecue, two things. Number one, wouldn't it be funny if there was a vegan mode for barbecue, like you put in a flipper code and then all of a sudden like all the meat changes, the vegetables just for fun and change the call-outs. Also, number two, I thought of the greatest mod that I want to create for barbecue. Okay, so Hot Wheels.
    37:45
    This is America Pinball's closest relative to barbecue is Hot Wheels. I mean, just look at the layout. It's not like one for one. They didn't do a play field swap or anything, but it's of that scope. And so one of the most interesting aspects of Hot Wheels is when you hit the loops and things, and then that matchbox car on the little coat hanger starts swirling around. The one that's zip-tied to that metal rod goes zipping around in a circle. And I thought, let's do that in barbecue. But let's get a 3D-printed sausage. Let's put it on a stick, and let's have it go around. It's got to be zip-tied. It has to be zip-tied to a coat hanger on a little motor there, just swirling around when you get going good. Just like, heck, put one on each one of the pop bumpers, and every time you hit the pop bumpers, it's sausages swirling. I would love that. I would love to see Foley Animatronics singing sausages as a topper for this machine. Let's just go weird with it. Okay, aside over, TPF starts Thursday, Friday, Saturday, this week. Don is going to be there. Don is going to be there with Balls of Steel Pinball. My boy Sterling from Georgia from the tournament scene. We're going to be there sharing a booth right next to Rocket City Pinball. So you can go by Andy and pick up his cool start buttons, his cool little coin reject buttons themed to your machine. Come by, see Don, get some giveaway stuff. It's going to be nuts. So here's what we're doing. You guys have seen my Wonk inspired logo that Mike Bernard made for me. I'm going to have banners there for sale. $99. Go home with them. I'll have limited quantities right now. Get one. Cash and carry. I'll have t-shirts with that logo on them. We have coasters. We have stickers. All kinds of stuff, right? Mainly I'm doing giveaways. I'm not selling a ton of stuff there. But I'm excited. I finally figured this out. So I've been doing this thing with the giveaways at the expos. I started at the Louisville Arcade Expo last year. We did an expo this year. What I would do is release a podcast like this one right before the show, and I would say, hey, if you see me, say Whitewater. say whirlwind, you know, or I picked an old Bally Williams game. And if you saw me and you gave me the passphrase, you got yourself a t-shirt and a bag with some stickers and stuff. And it was super fun. The first time I gave away three out of four bags that I brought at expo, I gave away 25 of the 10 bags I was intending on giving away. It was nuts. I can't do that again. I can't give away a code word like, uh, like fire, um, or junkyard and have you come up to me and say that and get something. I can't, I'm not Santa Claus. I don't have a sack that big that I can hold all the prizes I'd have to give out. So I decided to do a scavenger hunt after this idea was floated to me. So what I've done and inspired by the Wonka thing that I'm doing is I went and 3D printed some golden tickets and they say they're courtesy of Willy Donka. These things are the size of an apron card. Okay. So the size and scale of an apron card, they're gold with black lettering on them. I'm going to hide these things around the show floor. I've approached some distributors, manufacturers and pinball makers about partnerships to be able to hide one of these things in their booth. And what the heck was that? Let's turn that down. So you'll go to the booth and then hidden somewhere amongst the merch, edge of the table, taped underneath somewhere, will be one of these golden tickets. I'm thinking of doing five of them a day. I'll just kind of like scatter them around like an Easter egg hunt or something. If you find one of these things, you know, tell the vendor, hey, I think I found it. Did I win it? and then you grab that card, come over to Don's booth, and I'll get yourself a T-shirt and some stickers and stuff for free. We'll take pictures. It'll be high five. It'll be great. You can even keep the damn thing if you want. I'll sign the back to validate it. That way it can't be reused, and then it's yours to have fun with. I'm bringing enough to do three for every day of the convention. No, five. I'm bringing enough to do five every day of the convention. I think that'll be super fun. I'll get to hide these things around. So maybe I'll give little clues of where they're at. Maybe I won't. and just put them out there. But keep a sharp eye open. If you hear this and you have that information and you're hitting the show floor in Texas, just know that at the beginning when doors open, there's five of them hidden out there somewhere. Keep a weather eye open. Maybe look at every stack of T-shirts. Look at posters. Look in the back behind people. If you see one, point it out. The vendors will know it's there. I'm not sneaking them in there. They'll know they're there. If you find it, you get it. Bring it to me. Get a prize. Get a high five. Get a dap. Whatever. Get a glizzy if you want. It's going to be fantastic. So I wanted to talk about that, the golden tickets that we're doing. I'm going to have a couple of mods with me. I'm 3D printing some of those Jaws apron cards. They fit into the apron slots. On the premiums, the pros, they have that plastic apron. They don't really slot in as well. But if you want to get one of those, hit me up. I'll have some of those. I'll have some banners with me. And I'm actually put together a Jaws topper that I think is freaking nuts. I'll put some more pictures up on the Facebook page. But it's cool. prototype stage. I'm going to put some interactive lights in there and then I think it'll be kind of good to go. Now, it's not a product that I'm putting on Pinsight or something and soliciting money for, but I have one and if you love it, talk to me. I'll just say that. These things, even if I do make them available for anybody else, they're going to be totally built to order, totally custom. Reach out and we get a little deal going. I sold one of my gargoyle toppers already like that. A guy I just reached out. He had to have one. I got it out to him. Hopefully he's happy with it. But yeah, that's what we're going on. Also, this is 3-12-2024. On the 15th will be the next Patreon giveaway. So what I've been doing for everybody that's a Patreon member, you 60 people or whatever, just $5 a month, I'm randomly selecting a Patreon member on a live stream to get a prize. And so far those prizes have included a Stern Godzilla banner, not bootleg, legit real. also translates that I gave away last month. So this month we're going to do another one because I have so many Patreon members. We can make it a monthly thing. So that is coming up on the 15th. There's still time to get in on that. If you want to throw five bucks my way, say, hey, thanks. I love listening. Here's five bucks. Go get a Diamond Mountain Dew. It will put you into the drawing. If you are a courageous individual and you join at the supporter level of $10 or $20 a month, you get double entries. How about that? The person that won last month, they were at the $10 level. They got two entries. That second entry won them a free Translight for their $10. They paid $10, and they got a dang Translight courtesy of Don's Pinball Podcast. Thank you very much for listening. I love all of you. I want to give you all little noogies. Are you going to buy a Foo Fighters topper or shooter rod? Are you going to Cab Custom to go get one of his laser-cut armors coming over from Spain? I just got a package today that I'm going to do a live stream as soon as I'm done here. We're going to unbox this and see what the heck we sent me. We sent me what they sent me. And if I have any duplicates or any extra, I'm thinking giveaways, man. I'm thinking that's going to be awesome. And so I'm hoping that there's some cool pinball armor on here. We'll live stream that. Go check it out on the Facebook page. Be sure to follow. We're up over 1,100 members following now. I love it. Join the Patreon. Come out. Hang out. Be a bro. Go to the YouTube channel. Go to the Instagram channel. We're going to be firing up TikTok here pretty soon. Email me at donspinballpodcast at gmail.com. Anything else?
    44:41
    American Pinball, this is Don here. I want a hip-hop-themed pinball machine, man. Get Notorious B.I.G. Get Tupac. Just shatter the freaking world and release that thing. Sell 10,000 units and just be flossing, dude, at Ametron, making your own boards and everything. I hope you do well. Take my advice, man. That's free. That's free for you just between us friends. All right, everybody. Be cool.