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Ep 62: Exposé

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 14m·held·Nov 12, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Final Round Ep62: UK Open Classics, Expo Chicago attendance reversal, Roger Sharpe film reactions, and vendor theft concerns.

Summary

Final Round Pinball Podcast Episode 62 (re-recorded after initial rejection) features hosts Martin and Jeff discussing their recent tournament attendance and Expo Chicago experiences. Key topics include Jeff's UK Open Classics tournament second-place finish, his surprise attendance at Pinball Expo after initially declining, viewings of the Roger Sharpe pinball documentary film, vendor theft incidents at Expo, and encounters with community members. The episode blends tournament analysis, industry observations, and personal anecdotes with characteristic irreverent humor.

Key Claims

  • Jeff finished second place in the UK Open Classics tournament with 150 competitors including top European players

    high confidence · Jeff stated directly: 'I came in second' after describing losing on his final ball to player four

  • The pinball documentary film 'The Man Who Saved the Game' (about Roger Sharpe) has won Best in Show and multiple awards

    high confidence · Jeff: 'they won Best in Show. And they've won a lot of awards, too' after seeing it at the Heartland Film Festival in Indiana

  • Approximately $2,500 worth of Brian Allen artwork from Flyland Designs was stolen from Expo vendor booths during overnight hours

    medium confidence · Jeff: 'Brian Allen from Flyland Designs, his art's fantastic. He had about $2,500 worth of stuff that was taken'

  • Expo vendors were open until 1-2 AM on Saturday night after they left at 11 PM, creating a two-hour theft window

    medium confidence · Jeff: 'vendors pretty much left at 11 o'clock, but it was still open until 1 in the morning. So there was a two-hour window'

  • The Flipping the Script event at Expo raised enough money to assist 31 kids with autism programs

    high confidence · Jeff: 'they were able to, I think it was 31 kids they were able to assist' through the Loser Kid podcast charity event

Notable Quotes

  • “I am not going to Expo this year because I'm a cunt... and if I do go then I'm a massive cunt because I said that I wouldn't go”

    Jeff @ early episode — Sets up the humorous contradiction that Jeff later addresses when explaining his surprise decision to attend Expo Chicago

  • “UK Open had more... 16 in the Classics Bank, whereas most Classic tournaments, you're happy if there's eight... the games are top-notch... It was the UK version of Indisc”

    Jeff @ mid-episode — Explains why UK Open was his second-favorite tournament in 12 months, modeling Indisc's format and quality

  • “It's a story. You know the story. That's what made the movie so good is that you already knew the story, and it was everything that was filled in between that was wonderful”

    Jeff @ Roger Sharp film discussion — Describes what makes the pinball documentary effective despite the outcome being known

  • “It's gross. It's disgusting. I feel sorry for the vendors because they had to work longer hours, but for the benefit of hopefully them and definitely for Expo and the patrons”

    Jeff @ Expo theft discussion — Expresses frustration about vendor thefts while acknowledging extended hours benefited attendees overall

  • “I drove Thursday night at 3 in the morning to go to Chicago... Nine after a couple of naps. I got there at like maybe 1.40 in the afternoon”

    Jeff @ Expo attendance explanation — Demonstrates the impulsive decision-making that led to his surprise Expo attendance despite prior refusal

Entities

JeffpersonMartinpersonRoger SharpepersonJosh SharpepersonNeil McRaepersonAustin BraggpersonMeredith BraggpersonEllen Sharpperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: UK Open Classics tournament with 150 international competitors; Jeff finished second place, highlighting competitive depth and appeal of classic machines format

    high · Jeff's detailed account of finishing second at UK Open Classics with 150 competitors including top European players and US players like Levi and Greg

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo 2022 successfully addressed 2021 complaints: unified vendor/seminar layout, free seminars, extended hours improving attendee experience

    high · Jeff: 'They fixed everything... The seminars were free for everyone. The whole area wasn't divided into two... extended hours in the play area. It was really well done'

  • ?

    product_concern: Organized theft at Expo Chicago Saturday night (11 PM - 1 AM window) targeting vendor booths; approximately $2,500 in artwork stolen from Flyland Designs; other booths also hit

    high · Jeff: 'somebody just must have backed a truck in and just went through all the vendors stuff'... Brian Allen 'had about $2,500 worth of stuff that was taken'

  • ?

    community_signal: Loser Kid Podcast's Flipping the Script charity event at Expo raised funds assisting 31 kids with autism programs; planned as annual event

    high · Jeff: 'they were able to assist... 31 kids they were able to assist' through the charity event

  • ?

    content_signal: Pinball documentary 'The Man Who Saved the Game' receiving strong critical reception (Best in Show, multiple awards); generating positive word-of-mouth in pinball community

    high · Jeff's attendance at film festivals and positive reaction; noted as 'really good' and 'fantastic'; won Best in Show and multiple awards

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.225

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round.
0:40
Oh, thanks. Nice of you to do a podcast once in a while. Some heavy lifting there. Yes. So, well, that's not true. I know you're sort of referring to the fact that it's been a while that we've done a podcast. that's kind of the truth in that we haven't released a podcast for some time jeff okay the truth is on october the 9th so how many weeks ago almost four weeks ago we recorded episode 62 and it didn't get edited there were some things that we were kind of is that good is that bad if you can believe this, and I know you don't, we actually came to the conclusion, you know what? It might not be up to snuff. Is that what we thought? Okay, that's what I thought. What I thought was, Jeff's gone to Expo. There was that, because in the episode I said I wasn't going. I know. We'll get to that. We will get to that. But technically, we did record a full podcast.
1:48
We haven't released it. We're not even going to release it to our Patreon members as an exclusive. Yet.
1:55
We'll save that carrot for later. But it just, it was, I thought it was great. I thought it was a great episode. No, you didn't. I didn't. But... You questioned one of the things I said, and you're like, are you really going to say that? No, I know. And it was like quarter of the podcast. But when you said that you weren't going to release it, I went, yeah, I'm absolutely fine with that. Because we are all about quality podcasting here, everybody. So welcome to the Phone Around Bimble podcast. My name is Martin. My name is Jeff. This is episode 62, take two. But now we've set the standard. Now we're saying we actually care. And now if this is being released, redeeming, oh yeah, this is good stuff. What if it sucks? No one actually said that we care. That's, you know, you're reading into it. We never said that this would still be anything more than gutter trash. People are wondering, what the hell did they say? who did they call a cunt?
Brian Allen
person
Scottperson
George Fisherperson
Dave Hashmanperson
Danger Rayperson
Ryan C.person
Keith Elwinperson
UK Openevent
Pinball Expoevent
Flipping the Scriptevent
InDiscevent
Final Round Pinball Podcastorganization
Pinball Profileorganization
Melbourne Silver Ball Streamorganization
Loser Kid Podcastorganization
Flyland Designsorganization
  • ?

    competitive_signal: UK Open featured expanded Classics format (16 machines vs typical 8) suggesting growing player interest in classic machines tournaments

    medium · Jeff: 'UK Open had more... 16 in the Classics Bank, whereas most Classic tournaments, you're happy if there's eight'

  • ?

    venue_signal: InDisc Riverside location (January 2023) improved from Banning with better walkability, restaurants, hotels nearby; extended venue hours and logistics beneficial for attendees

    high · Jeff discusses Riverside having 'eight, nine, ten different restaurants within not even a five-minute walk, lots of hotels around there'

  • ?

    community_signal: UK Open attracted top European players (Daniele Iaccari, Peter Anderson) and US players (Levi, Greg); increasing international tournament participation and competition depth

    high · Jeff: 'There were Daniele Iaccari from Italy, Peter Anderson, former number one player, just all kinds of incredible European players. Even Levi and Greg came from the US'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Jeff's tournament preferences consolidated around InDisc (his favorite) over Pinberg (previous favorite social tournament); UK Open positioned as second favorite

    medium · Jeff contrasts InDisc favorably with Pinberg's social aspects; UK Open designed after InDisc model receives high praise as 'second best tournament in 12 months'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Classic machines require distinct skill set from modern games (nudging, dead bounces, flipper trust, predictive bouncing); Jeff demonstrates expertise in this format

    medium · Jeff's discussion of classics gameplay emphasizing different mechanics: 'most EMs require a little different kinds of nudging... live catches aren't as big'

  • ?

    content_signal: Final Round Pinball Podcast rejected Episode 62 initially due to quality concerns (recorded Oct 9, re-recorded for release); hosts explicit about standards despite casual format

    high · Episode opening: hosts discuss rejecting first recording, stating 'It might not be up to snuff' and deciding not to release even to Patreon

  • ?

    industry_signal: Expo 2022 featured broad manufacturer and vendor attendance: Stern, Jersey Jack, American Pinball, Spooky, Multimorphic, Flyland Designs, TPN, Poor Man's Pinball Podcast

    high · Jeff: 'you want to see Stern, you want to see Jersey Jack, you want to see American. Spooky was even there... Multimorphic was there... many good vendors'

    • 2:50
    Besides each other. And will they have to play it backwards to be fooled into thinking that we said something interesting? Oh, we did do that. Didn't we do the backwards thing? We did.
    3:01
    Now, were you able to listen to it? No. Oh, yeah, you know the trick. You know what we did. No, I know. But someone reached out to me and said, so I could be fucked reversing it. What did you say? And I went, don't worry. It's not worth it. That was the joke. It was totally worth it. Buy all kinds of software. where spend big bucks to find out the secret Easter eggs.
    3:21
    There are no Easter eggs. Speaking of Easter and holidays, it's Halloween. I mean, that's giving it away what day we're recording. It's Halloween. And the reason why I want to bring that up is that, obviously, we're recording at a certain time, and it's just changed daylight savings for you. So our time was out. I'm recording two hours later than I expected, which is completely fine. I'm on a public holiday so I've got all day it doesn't bother me. The reason I'm bringing that up is that you said I'll be there soon, I'm packing up the something outside and I'm assuming that you've got some sort of Halloween stand outside with lollies for people trick or treating is that correct? Lollies? What kind of shit Halloween candy is that? I mean we had chocolate bars and chips and fentanyl you name it, we fucking had we had There's none of that. I think I like Halloween more than Christmas, believe it or not. It was always my favorite as a child. I don't know if it was because I was super poor as a kid, so getting all that candy and all free was wonderful. I mean, I would have like a red wagon with a pillow sack. I'd go up with a small little pumpkin, trick or treat, get stuff, throw it in the big pillow sack in the thing, so they'd look at my empty little pumpkin, oh, poor guy, here's a few more. fucking i i i'm not no exaggeration i had candy till may one year i mean it was the shitty candy by the end of it like the crappy taffy sure for sure oh it's amazing i have any teeth left because i think i may have spoken about halloween at some stage on one of the many podcasts that i've been on but in australia it's a thing but i didn't realize how big a thing it was until i was in the U.S. when it was Halloween, and it is everything over there. It's pretty neat, and it depends on the neighborhood you're in. Some neighborhoods I've been into, like, if you weren't doing stuff on your house, you were vilified, and you put up the for sale sign because you're not part of this community. But it depends where you are. I mean, I look at our street, and I'd be like, if I'm a kid on that, eh, no. I calculated how much candy per steps. You know how people have the Fitbits? That's your CPS. I've done this many steps. Yeah, calculate that with candy, all right? I don't want big driveways and every other house with the lights off, unless I've got like a stack of eggs. And you're damn right you're getting an egg if you're not giving them candy.
    5:54
    And I would look at like, I don't know, townhouses are fucking gold. I love townhouses because you go zip, zip, zip, zip, zip, zip, zip. Oh, yeah, yeah. Small wartime. Massive CPS score. Wartime homes. Those are good. The little bungalows. Fucking zip, zip, zip, zip.
    6:11
    I will never get to pinball, but one of the other things I did at Halloween was, yep, change of costume.
    6:21
    Because that ginger coming around. Oh, do you go back to get some more candy with a new costume? Definitely a mask or a coat or something different. Damn right. And you'd know which are the good houses. Fuck that house. Wait a minute. They got full-size chocolate bars there. I'm going there. Anyway, it is Halloween here. Let's get to pinball. Yeah, we've done a lot. Okay, quickly some recap of what we've done in the last 13 weeks since our last podcast.
    6:45
    I got to mention I did go to the UK Open, and it was spectacular. And Neil McRae, we did talk a lot on the podcast that never aired, but I do have to give a shout-out because, Marty, I got to tell you, I go to a lot of tournaments. That was the second best tournament I've been to in over 12 months. what made it so good. Do you rate Indisc number one like I do? I do. Indisc is number one. Yeah, I didn't know that we'd actually synchronized on that because it was a bit controversial when I came out and said that I thought it was better than Pimberg. But obviously, Pimberg's not around. Pimberg was my favorite social event. My favorite tournament has and always has been Indisc. Old Papa was pretty special too. That was maybe the all-time greatest. But InDisc has the tough tournaments. They have several different tournaments. They have a lot of games. It doesn't have the biggest expansion of free play area, although every year it does get better. But the games are top-notch. The stream on IE Pinball, the Never Drain Software, with Carl, with Jim, with Bob, with Jay, with all the people do Emoto, all the sponsors. And I just, it's a fun, fun, fun time. And what made the UK open was, that's Neil McRae's favorite tournament too. So he modeled as much as possible after Indisc. It was the UK version of Indisc. They had high stakes, two classics, big main event, great streaming, backhand pinball. Mark came from New York to do that. Fuck, it was good. So good. Yep. How many machines were there? Okay, so that's, you know, when you go to Indisc, you're like, wow, look at that. There's like 16, 18 machines in the main bank, and they've all got big screen TVs on it. And so you can see it as you're watching, which is another real cool thing about it. but UK Open had more. They had, I think they had 16 in the Classics Bank, whereas most Classic tournaments, you're happy if there's eight. In-disc, I think there's 10, 12, maybe 14. I think this was 16, 18. In the High Stakes Bank, I think there were 12, and your best five games counted, so you didn't have to play this one if you weren't a fan of it. You could pick and choose. Oh, it was so good, and top-notch games. So we've actually not talked about your results in the UK Open. And it's interesting that you say that they've got the Classics tournaments because I think one of the first times I ever met you was in the queue at Papa, the last Papa, in one of the Classics tournaments. I think there might have been three. Yeah, there were. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just remember seeing you always in the queue for Classics. And I believe, I don't know whether it's because you focus on Classics, but I just think you seem to do much better in Classics tournaments. That's just my observation. Results seem to agree with you. That UK Open, the one Classics tournament, and there were 150 people there. There were Daniele Iaccari from Italy, Peter Anderson, former number one player, just all kinds of incredible European players. Even Levi and Greg came from the US, and it was a good time. Our good friend Howard Dobson, lots of fun. Yeah, so I came in second. Did you? After my last ball on Medusa, I was leading until player four, ball three, and he had a wicked ball to overtake me to win the tournament. So I think what it is with classics, I see a lot of people poo-poo them, and, oh, house ball this, that. Yeah, there are house balls, but usually the house balls happen on EMs, and you get five balls to kind of, okay, so I had a house ball there. maybe two you can get around it most ems require a little different kinds of nudging you have to trust your flipper skills your dead bounces live catches aren't as big in some of the uh classics games so it's amazing how many times i will on a game like space shuttle not flip and just kind of know i don't know if it's just knowing where the bounces are and knowing like how many times have you played a game where you see it hit a sling or a top of the sling and say that's gone and then maybe two seconds later you know what's gone like you you know what's coming so yeah yeah yeah yeah kind of can see the games a little better and quite honestly a lot of the classics games are maybe one or two shots where and you're not stacking and all that kind of stuff i prefer the ones that usually don't have multi balls believe it or not so a game like space shuttle i don't care what flip around i'm going for that spinner non-stop you lock two balls uh I'm not even going to get the multi-ball. Forget about it. Yeah. It's over pretty quickly anyway. I've said this jokingly, and now I'll be challenged to the task, but if my life was on the line and I had to play a game like Big Game from Stern, which has the double flippers on both sides, you can't scissor because there's stuff in between there, I think I can do well on Big Game. Raymond Davidson even jokes with me all the time. We had to play in this upcoming tournament, and I got to pick the game. I said big game. It wasn't in the lineup, but he just laughed because he knew.
    11:49
    Anyway, so yeah, classics were good and I might have done well in another classics. We'll get to that later.
    11:57
    Okay, but great tournament. Well done. UK Open. Everybody in the UK. Sign up for that. I'm telling you, it's a good one. Great venue too. I mean, I always like the tournaments that are, I don't have to drive anywhere. Great. It's right in the hotel. I just walk downstairs. Perfect. Those are heaven. That's what I like about Indus too. in this coming year in 2023 and last year in 2022 is the hotels were all right there. Remember Banning? It was a little out of the way. I mean, it was a great location because you had 350 games that went for a billion dollars in an auction. There was lots to do there, but it was kind of out of the way. Okay, I guess I've got to rent a car, get an Uber, and that kind of stuff. That was the only draw against it. Well, this is interesting because you were saying that, you know, Pinberg for you was the more social tournament. Yeah. And I always thought that for me, Indisc was the most social tournament. But I think, and obviously I haven't been to the new location, but I think the difference was Pinberg, you played games and it was competition. You had a bit of a chat. But when it was over, everybody went out to a restaurant or a bar and you had this massive social aspect. Whereas with Indisc, the social side was being in the queue, waiting for a game, talking to people. but when it was done, there wasn't really that much to do in Banning, so everybody just sort of went their separate ways. Yeah, it's pretty good in Riverside. They've got this wonderful food. I'm screwing up the name. I want to say the Food Lab. Maybe that's what it's called. Eight, nine, ten different restaurants within not even a five-minute walk, lots of hotels around there. It's heaven, and I'm looking forward to it. Sign-ups have already begun, so go to indisc.com. Still lots of time to register for many of the tournaments, their main event, their classics events, and even if you want, a pinball profile pre-event at the Riverside Game Lab. So lots to do at Indisc in January. Awesome. So there was another show that happened recently that you went to, even though, and I've still got the recording. It wasn't aired. you said and i quote i am not going to expo this year because i'm a cunt i quote i quote you directly i've got the recording that's exactly what you said and you said if if i do go then i'm a massive cunt because i said that i wouldn't go so what happened so the expo is thursday through saturday and i guess this tournament continues on to sunday wednesday morning the The day before the event on Thursday, I was not going. The day before. In fact, and oh, I mean, here, put this as another Jeff Teal's feather in the cap. Wednesday morning, I was receiving, and try not to get food out of your mouth. I don't want you to choke. I was receiving a Lifetime Achievement Award for radio at this massive convention with 400 people. I didn't know I was getting it.
    14:54
    Anyway. It wasn't a Lifetime Achievement in comedy. No. Oh, hell. There it is. Okay. We got it. There it is.
    15:04
    Who had, what time is that? Yes. I did very well to- Who had 16 minutes? You had 16 minutes? There we go.
    15:16
    No, it wasn't. Hilarious. Speaking of that, Ryan C., I actually was going to surprise you and have him come on, but that loser, he just flew back from Western Australia. I'm too tired. I've got an hour of sleep. You know what I said? I'm only going to ask so many times. It's been four shows in a row, you little prick. Anyway, so Wednesday morning, I was not going. I was at this convention. And then Wednesday afternoon-ish, I left the convention around 2 o'clock with my little ward in hand, and I came home. And my wife said, yeah, I'm going to go away to a cottage with your sister for the weekend. I'm like, oh, I'm sitting doing sweet fuck all? I guess I could drive to Chicago. I'm not a huge, huge fan of that tournament for just the length of it. There's nothing wrong with the tournament. It's just it's really long, and I like things to be a little more on schedule. When do we play? Now? Good. And I always hated feeling, okay, I'm stuck in the tournament. I want to see the show. Anyway, decided I was going to go. You don't even believe me. I drove Thursday night at 3 in the morning to go to Chicago. So that's how long. How long was the drive? It was about five hours? Seven, eight, nine. Nine after a couple of naps. I got there at like maybe 1.40 in the afternoon. I'm pretty bagged. I pull up to the driveway. I see Josh Sharp. I'm like, hey. And he's like, I'm just going to get lunch. Do you want to get lunch? I haven't even entered the building. I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah, let's go get lunch. I was humming along like, do I really want to do this tournament or not? Anyway, so we went and grabbed lunch. Here's the shocker. He paid.
    16:50
    It's all that movie money that's coming in. Oh, there's that too. So anyway, that's what decided that. What you're actually talking about, before we get back to Expo, was I was just out that way the week before in Indiana because I couldn't. This was on the old show that you didn't hear. I couldn't go to the Hamptons because the Blue Jays were blowing their playoff chances against the Seattle Mariners and that. What's it supposed to say? Baseball. So part of my job is I cover that for our radio stations. that coincided with when the Hamptons Film Festival was. So I'm like, oh, shit. But I promised Roger, I said, if I can't go to the Hamptons, I will go to the Indiana, it's called the Heartland Film Festival. I'll go to that on a Tuesday. And I did. And they won Best in Show. And they've won a lot of awards, too. So before we get back to Expo, I did get to see the pinball movie with Roger Sharp, the man who saved the game. God, is it good. Everyone said it's fantastic. And what we suspected is a lot of people are saying, And even if you're not into pinball, it's a great movie. It's a good story. It's a very nice story. Pinball is kind of the backdrop. It's not really the be-all and end-all of the movie. It's kind of, you know, it really is there to show Roger's passion in things and in all things, really. But, yeah, a very, very pleasant movie. And hopefully everyone will get a chance to see it. It's at a lot of film festivals. So whenever you go to pinballfilm.com and you can see all the film festivals and then click on the film festival, because a lot of times they'll have streaming opportunities. You pay your 10, 15 bucks and you can stream it. Did people cheer in the audience when he made the shot?
    18:30
    I don't know. I would have. Yeah, a small patterning or whatever. I don't remember it being, you know, like a... A thunderous roar. I think because we all knew, right? Sure But it was just other There were lots of laugh out loud moments which I didn expect it to be so funny Holy shit the hardcore nudity I was not expecting that You think his mustache is hairy. Holy.
    18:54
    It's not true. There was none of that, I kid. Well, actually, actually, when he was in New York, and this is well documented, he didn't find a pinball machine until he was walking. I have to question this. He was just occasionally, by chance, walking by an adult bookstore. Randomly. Just happened to be. And he said, oh, I heard the bells and the chimes. I'm like, yeah, sure you did. That's what you heard. Where were they coming from?
    19:20
    Anyway, so that's how he got to play pinball in New York. And then he found out it was legal. They took the machine away, all that kind of good stuff. So was there a scene in the movie where he said something along the lines of, my life is only possible because of Jeff Teolas? I'm just curious to know how many times you were mentioned in the movie, seeing how important you are to his life. Well, back in the 70s when this movie took place, I was a small child. Yeah, you're still alive, yep.
    19:45
    No, nothing. There was something where he said, you know, there's this Canadian kid. Pretty fucking funny kid. I'm going to keep my eye out on that kid. Okay, that didn't happen. That didn't happen. Oh, actually, can I tell you something that made me goosebumps on my arms? Sure. So, Austin and Meredith... But don't spoil the movie, by the way. Just, but yeah, good guy. Okay, whether or not he makes the shot. He makes the fucking shot. There's no spoiler alert. It's a story. You know the story. That's what made the movie so good is that you already knew the story, and it was everything that was filled in between that was wonderful. The relationship with Ellen and Seth, and I loved it. It was really, you know, his struggles in work and all that kind of stuff. Anyway, talking with Austin and Meredith Bragg, they are the writers and directors of this movie. they watched a lot of video and audio of Roger speaking to hear the story, to write the film, and there was not a lot of Ellen except, and they told me this after, a Pinball Profile episode I did with Ellen for Mother's Day edition. And she's kind of talking about meeting Roger and all that kind of stuff. And there's a line in the movie, I won't say what it is, and I got goosebumps when she said it because it was verbatim of what she said on Pinball Profile. And it just made me feel really good. I thought what you were going to say was, you know, they obviously, they had no recordings, except when she did the sponsor ad on Final Round Pinball. I got a sense. Okay, I'm going to play that right now. This is, so they made a movie called Pinball, The Man Who Saved the Game. It's really good. Marty and I had a way better idea, I thought, you thought, for a TV show. It didn't happen. Here it is. In a world where one man's single action can change the course of history. We know the story of how Roger Sharp saved pinball, but that's just the beginning. This is a man who's beaten the best, including Father Time. He's laughed in the face of COVID-19, just like he did during the Spanish flu. If the Titanic couldn't take him down when he was a teenager, nothing can. It's the new TV series everyone's talking about. Roger saves the world!
    21:54
    See Roger utilise his skills in other areas, like when he performed miracles in the delivery room. This baby isn't breathing! Roger, we need a slap save!
    22:07
    See Roger save everything from baseball games to saving you money on car insurance. Plus, you'll see Roger with his toughest task ever, his legacy. I'm worried. Young Josh will never grow up to be a pinball champion. Oh, Ellen, don't worry, honey. I know how we can save this. We'll just have another son.
    22:28
    Roger saves the world. Yeah, that Oscar worthy right there. I guess the pinball film is fine. They made their right choice, but I'm telling you, Roger saves the world. I want to see that. Netflix special, make it happen.
    22:44
    Absolutely. Okay. So back to Expo, please. So you must have got pissed. So I ran into Raylene and Dave. Hashman and Danger Ray from Melbourne Silver Ball Stream. They're very, very funny. I've watched them several times on stream. And they'll be on stream for five hours and may get in three pinball games. Oh, you are being very generous. That's the best part of it. They're just shooting the shit. I love it. They just love a good chat. They are so awesome. I'm sorry, had you not met them before? Okay, this is like me meeting you for the first time.
    23:23
    Me meeting you for the first time was that Papa. You came up to me. I was trying to talk to Jordan Treadway, young whiz kid. I think he won the B Championships. And you came in there like a dirty shirt. Hi, I'm Marty. I'm like, are you Jordan's dad? No, I don't care. Fucking beat it, nerd. Anyway, so. Sorry. It's not much off of that. No, sorry. there is because i said you're jeff and you went yeah i went from pinball profile and you're like oh shit do you listen i'm like yeah and you're like oh fuck that's cool are you jordan's dad so that's actually how it went so you know even though you said i just sort of got it i got in and paid your compliment so you liked me immediately i did well okay all right here's the truth that was maybe honestly only six months into pinball profile like right now right now here we are in November of 2022. I'm now starting my seventh year of podcasting. This was going back to 2017. So I'd only been doing it for about six months. So I was shocked. An Australian. Yeah. And Head wasn't around at the time. No, that's true. So that, wow, you've actually heard the show. I was shocked. So I should have. But again, you know, so many fucking people came up to me. I just couldn't keep track of all the fans. Anyway. I was just one of many listeners. I felt like shit when you told me that after. Anyway, so have I met Dave and Ray? In my mind, no. But the truth is they were actually at my Pinball Profile World Tour event in Australia. I forget who won it.
    24:53
    Yeah, they were there. But they also said they came late. So, okay. There were 47 people there. Yeah, okay. And I was loaded. So, I'm sorry. I feel bad, but I said next time I come to Aussie, we're definitely doing an event there. Oh, speaking of which, I know that twat friend of yours, Ryan C., and mine, he wants to hold, I guess, the Victorian State Championship there. Sure. Did you hear about this? No. Well, Dave's telling me all about this. He's like, yeah, but there's some glare on the lights. Can I change some of the lighting up on your ceiling? Well, Ryan's like 5'3 on a good day. he's going to get up there and like they're super high ceilings yeah it's not happening that's an accident waiting to happen oh you never know just hire a scissor lift for the day easily get it done but yeah no i've been to his place and during the day the glare is insufferable well i just find it funny that hey can i come to your place to hold the victorian championships oh and can i rearrange your lighting how about um can i go or can i change the pitch on your machines Can I turn the tilts off? It's not going to happen, man. Walk away. What a dick. Walk away. Anyway, Expo. So you got to meet Dave and Danger Ray. How's you doing, Danger Ray? Wonderful people. Who else did you catch up with? Lots of people I haven't seen in a while. Certainly, you know, the Loser Kid guys who put on an unbelievable Flipping the Script event and raised all the money that they were trying to do to help some programs for young people with autism. and they were able to, I think it was 31 kids they were able to assist. So Scott, Josh, by the time this episode comes out, you will have heard them on Pinball Profile talking a little bit about the event. Kind of gross and sad what happened at the end there. I don't know. Did you hear about that? About stuff getting stolen? Yeah, a few booths. So that's the one thing about Expo. We'll jump back to Lusica. The Expo this year, after 2021, which was, again, just coming off of COVID, Sorry. Thanks, Ian.
    27:01
    You know, it was a new facility. There were some concerns about, oh, the seminar room, it's separate, it's expensive, it's not included. The vendor booth and the free play area are two separate and one's closed. They fixed everything. Like, the seminars were free for everyone. The whole area wasn't divided into two. So you want to see Stern, you want to see Jersey Jack, you want to see American. Spooky was even there. You want to see Weird Al. Multimorphic was there. I got to play Fathom. Everything was all around. Of course, the TPN guys were there right beside the Poor Man's Pinball podcast, Flea Market, which was the funniest thing to see. It was just the dumpiest. It was perfect. It was right on point. Anyway, so many good vendors, but it was all available and extended hours. So in years past, you'd have to wait Thursday until 5 o'clock at night, and you're like, seminars are on at 10. What am I going to do? So everything was open a lot more, extended hours in the play area. It was really well done. So flipping the script was there. They were doing their long broadcast, thanks to great help from George Fisher and the Luger Kid guys had all kinds of guests. But they were auctioning off a bunch of their prizes, and some of them actually got swiped. I know. And Brian Allen from Flyland Designs, his art's fantastic. He had about $2,500 worth of stuff that was taken. So it must have been on the Saturday night. My understanding is that the vendors pretty much left at 11 o'clock, but it was still open until 1 in the morning. So there was a two-hour window where somebody just must have backed a truck in and just went through all the vendors' stuff and just filled up a truck and left. It wouldn't take much for a couple of people to say, okay, be on the lookout. Just cover two, three guys, four people. Keep an eye, see anybody, and just somebody slide a hand, slipping small shit in there. It's gross. It's disgusting. I feel sorry for the vendors because they had to work longer hours, but for the benefit of hopefully them and definitely for Expo and the patrons. But a lot of times, if they had big displays, how do you hide it all, right? I mean, you'd see blankets over top of things, but it still didn't mean things could get moved. It's sad and it's scary. Well, it's a pinball event, and you just think pinball people are good people. It wouldn't happen. We had a discussion about it at Haggis. And if we had been there, we thought about all the stuff that we would have left behind in our booth that would have gone. It would have been a lot of valuable stuff. So anyway, that was a bit of a sour note. My understanding is I only had cameras on the exits, nothing in the actual hall itself. So finding who did it is going to be very difficult. I guess if you've got a lot of valuable stuff, you're probably going to have to buck up for your own security for your own booth. It wasn't really an issue for the big guys, the Stearns, the Jersey Jacks, Americans, and Spookies, and everyone was there because they were playing. And it's not like they're selling little small knickknacks and things that can get lifted, but that's a long day if you're just one vendor and you're your only employee and not going to stuff, even just going to the washroom or getting something to eat, let alone being there from, say, 10 in the morning until it was open to 1, 2 in the morning, I think, the one night. So, yeah, that's too bad. But again, the good story there is they raised money, and I think that's hopefully an annual thing that they do for Loser Kid Podcast. So way to go, Scott and Josh. Yeah, well done. I mentioned I played Fathom, got to play Weird Al again, which was fun. I played James Bond. Okay. I only played maybe one, one and a half game. I was actually playing with Keith Elwin, and they were set up pretty easy. And because it's a show, right, they don't level the games and all that kind of stuff. They pop them in, and, you know, it's fine. you're going to get a feel, but it was the one machine I was on was unfortunately just a little floaty and you could never miss a shot because the balls weren't going as fast as possible. Like the layout, like the shots, like the look, the art's certainly got some people kind of, maybe not for me, but I'm giving them a pass because I haven't seen it at full code yet and fully set up. I know I want to play it again, so that's a good sign. Yeah, feedback I've heard is, again, it shoots really well. It's a fun game. yeah yeah yeah good it looks fun yeah i'm sure once that's all complete that's gonna be a neat one for sure i also played queen queen yes and pinball brothers i was more surprised than i thought i would be and i'd only seen the back glass and i was like okay i kind of i don't know i wanted more or something and i guess you know when we look at real people and that art we always think of franchi right and the stuff he does well that's kind of a pretty high standard right so it was fine but when i actually looked at the play field i was really impressed with the artwork and the shots were pretty neat i was actually playing with uh keith johnson funny enough of jersey jack we were playing a bunch of games that was one we stopped upon once uh the lineup was good and we got in there i want to play it again i i really i i'm curious it was not anywhere near complete as far as software and that will come i think joe schober is working on that but i'm interested it was fun yeah that's again feedback i keep hearing is that people are pleasantly surprised at how well it plays. And right beside it, Pinball Brothers also brought another game. Maybe a great game. Maybe the best game ever. What do you mean? I don't know. What game was it? It was Alien. Yeah, of course. Which is now number one on Pinside. Top 100. Get the fuck out of here. No, it's a true story. Number one on Pinside. Once again, congratulations internet voters.
    32:34
    Jeez. It's a really good game. Don't get me wrong. It's actually a really good game. Is it better than Godzilla? Or I can probably name 10 other games. What I like about Alien, especially at Expo, was I actually was able to see it. Sometimes if you play it in an arcade or somewhere that's darker, it's very dark. And just being old as I am, it's hard for me to see things in the dark. I had no problem at Expo. And it's shooting well. You remember the original Highway one that was like, oh, there's some kind of bugs here and there that aren't working? they're sorting those out. I did play the original Highway version and it shot really well. I mean the xenomorph magnety thing was a little bit temperamental but besides that everything worked and it shot well. Yeah, they had a lot there too. So I would imagine they had a few votes after Expo from people playing. Let's put it into perspective. Oh god. Okay, let's go top 15 because I'm looking at the list here. What we're saying is that Alien is better than all these games. Rush is at 15, Big Lebowski at 14, Pirates of the Caribbean, Jersey Jacks at 13, Metallica, 12, Lord of the Rings, 11, Twilight Zone, 10, Elvira, House of Horrors, 9, Monster Bash, 8, Iron Maiden, 7, Jurassic Park, 6, Deadpool, 5, Attack from Mars, 4, Medieval Madness, 3, Godzilla, 2. Alien is better than all of those games. I can easily say six of those games aren't in my top 15, maybe top 20. in mine. It's also objective. Yeah, same. I mean, Twilight Zone's there and everyone knows how much I dislike it, but it still deserves to be in the top ten. Just because it's not my preference.
    34:18
    You know? I've always thought Lord of the Rings is overrated, and I know you've owned it. I think it's a great game. Nah, I don't think it's overrated at all.
    34:28
    Overrated doesn't mean it's a bad game. I don't get that it's the BL on there. I don't. Really? yeah yeah absolutely even though i had it and i was sick to the back teeth of it after i finished it because i only had four games so i played it a lot i streamed it a lot i totally get why people love the game it shoots really well the the code is well obviously we know it's it's deep code but it's more than that it's way the oh the way the game communicates to you yeah but i'm saying it's not it's not just the code like the framework and how you get through the game it's the call outs it's the sounds it's the feedback that you get it's the combination of everything makes it a great game call outs are maybe one of the greatest no arguments there the code is spectacular so the layout's great I think for me again it's just the length of play like I hardly ever play that game it's never in tournaments no but if you had that as a home game you'd love the fact that it plays long and you get to see a lot of the code yeah so I get it Anyway, Alien number one is my point. Jeez. Well, hey, good on you. Hopefully that'll help sell a few games. Yeah, it's pin side, right? I mean, you take that with a grain of salt. I saw The Mandalorian Topper. Oh, you actually saw it? I was with Dwight Sullivan, who you and I know. I love the man. He's a wonderful guy. We had a good conversation and very, very inspiring, to say the least. Oh. So that stuff, like when I think of pinball events and catching up with people, when you say Dwight, I still just remember him coming to Melbourne and just having a good chat with Dwight. He's just one of the best people in pinball, really is. Well, you're right, because he's one of the most passionate people I know about his craft, big-time gamer. I mean, just legendary. I saw our buddy Joel Amir talking to him about gaming, and they were just having a good old laugh about it. They were going deep, way over my head, but they certainly knew that side of it. And he has that kind of passion when it comes into his games. And I have said on this program, sometimes I don't understand his code, and that doesn't mean it's bad. It means I guess I've got to learn it. I'm going to give you a perfect example. So in this Expo tournament, they had a bunch of Mandalorians, and I pulled Louis Bevins, who's from Pittsburgh, and one of the smartest people I know when it comes to rules. and I've said this before I'm going to say it again one of the best I put you in there as well but one of the best pinball commentators oh yeah he is absolutely fantastic he also has my favorite pinball laugh if you ever see him play a game and he drains he'll laugh himself off you know I know it's probably painful that he's draining but it's a funny laugh and it makes me smile he's such a good spirit and he's you know he's a good sport but I know he knows rules so I'm like come on teach me Mandalorian because I really didn know I heard the old Centalorian thing and he kind of told me about the playfield multipliers a little bit He told me about bringing in the modes with these multiballs and stuff And I'm a dumb fucking guy. And within five minutes, it clicked. I got it. To the point where if I had to choose a game with my life on the line, with Led Zeppelin there, with Rush there, with Avengers, all games I own, with Godzilla, which I love, with Jurassic park with Guardians of the Galaxy. My life on the line, I would have picked Mandalorian. Because you understood what to do. Because I now knew what to do. So that's, I think, you know, when you get a game from Dwight, and he has such a huge fan base, you know, there are always criticisms with any programmer. I like this, I don't like this. But there's some deep stuff there, and I know as you mentioned when he was in Melbourne, you know, he's a good guy to talk to, and he listens. And he asks you about things like when you had monsters i was having a chat with him and i was basically saying my dissatisfaction with monsters and i had to leave and he goes hey can we just go outside and have a chat have you got time and i said okay i'll give you half an hour and he literally sat there and listened to me for half an hour me complaining about monsters and he was just like oh cool okay that's interesting okay cool like and just like taking notes he doesn't need to do that that's not lip service if he's giving you a half an hour. No, it's not.
    38:48
    You just know he wants to be the best he can be. Well, I'll keep this private because it's between the two of them, but Carl D'Angelo, who we certainly enjoy, Carl and him have been talking about some suggestions for things, and Troy cares. He listens. We've seen, obviously, code updates on things like Ghostbusters and Game of Thrones, which we all love, and other games. Once you learn these games, they're pretty neat. You know, he rightfully gave me shit, and so he should have, you know, as I in the past complained about Star Wars. And I do want to apologize for calling it a fucking turd, because it is not a fucking turd. It's just a game I didn't understand. I'm admitting I made a mistake. I would like to learn it better. And Travis Murray is a friend who's been on the show. He's given me a lot of good suggestions on Star Wars. So I shouldn't say that or any game is a fucking turd because there should be some context. It really means. I need Thunderbirds. Well, it means I need to learn it. It means Thunderbirds is undeniable. Is Thunderbirds a fucking turd? It's not the greatest code. International Rescue is a bit of a problem. Does it look okay? Yeah, it looks fine. Sure. Is it, you know, Spinal Tap is a game you've played. I want to play. I see it's at the Pinball Hall of Fame. It's a theme I'm dying to play. I'm hoping it's not a game I don't like, but I'm sure fucking Turd, that's just a little harsh. I've got to watch myself. Again, with Star Wars, I've said this, that I find it a challenge in a tournament setting because you've got to learn a relatively complex navigation system through the code in such a short period of time. Whereas I think if I had that game at home, I would love it. But I also think it's not the code. I think it's more so that it is a more brutal game than I would like. It just seems to just feed those outlanes more than most recent games. You've almost described exactly the one thing that drives me crazy a little bit about Star Wars. And again, it's when you have, let's say, either ball saves on or even the rescue on the right lane. So it's basically a virtual ball save. and let's say it auto-plunges your ball, or you shoot your ball. I know what you're going to say. You shoot your ball, and it goes in the out lane, and it immediately fires another ball. Hits the targets and out lane again. That is the frustrating part to me.
    41:24
    I wish it didn't auto-fire, or I wish it would auto-fire even a half second later so that I could soft-plunge it and maybe put it on the flipper, but when it's out of your control, that kind of drives me nuts. But I mentioned this to Josh. He goes, you're the one who screwed up the first plunge. Like, yeah, I guess your point. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. But anyway, good to see Dwight. That Mando topper. Fuck, is it gorgeous. Yeah. Is it $2,000 gorgeous? Well, let's rewind the tape a year from now when the next topper. Is that Bond topper worth $3,000? Well, the Mando one was only $2,000. It's what the price is right now. so I know that you're not a topper guy you're not a top and so you look at these things and you go well I don't see any value in them and that's fine this is actually not a criticism of you it's more so a talking point I'm just cheap if you want to be the real no no no it's more than like trying to look at this objectively the price is the price people have got $2,000 if they want to top it for $2,000 then pay it and don't make them feel bad for doing it you know what it's the market people will people will lap it up the the question i've got that really once people talk about the price and some people can't get over it the thing they then talk about is the fact that it's got exclusive modes with the topper and my question to you is do you see that as a problem that you can only get certain modes if you buy a topper go for it i think that justifies part of the cost if you're getting something extra. Yes! Oh my god! So we've done this conversation. I'm the same. I think, well, you know, if you're paying $2,000 for a topper and it's got some extra modes in as well, that makes the topper more appealing and it also makes $2,000 more appealing. The flip of it is people that don't want a topper and they feel like they're missing out on some modes. Dwight, she'll be some things that I don't think people have realized did on that Mando topper. I just like the visual aspect of it. I like the foundry aspect. I like the visuals. Obviously, the hologram is spectacular. Dwight goes to me, so is this as good as the Black Knight topper? And I said, oh, that's a pretty amazing topper. That kind of really changed toppers. And also, before I'm answering him, it's up there. It's 1A, 1B. That Black Knight topper was probably only 400 bucks. That's the difference. If they're both $2,000, I'll take the Mando topper. Do you know what I'm saying? So if it's apples to apples. I think Black Knight was 1,000, wasn't it? No, it was under 500. It was definitely under 500 bucks. I remember being at that. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. For the Black Knight topper with the moving Black Knight? Well, I just like that he laughed. He looked at it. No. It definitely wasn't over 1,000. No way, man. The first one that went over 1,000 was Elvira. Okay. Star Wars wasn't even that much. Really? Yeah. Oh, okay. They went crazy after that. And the funny thing was, they only made so many of the Black Knight ones. So there was that aspect of it, too. Anyway, 1A, 1B, I did say to Dwight, I said, if I have to pick three, I have a Zeppelin LE. I don't even have that, which is a very cool topper. Don't have it. Won't buy it. Again, part of being cheap, but it just doesn't do anything for me. There's no modes. There's nothing extra to it. But if I had to pick three toppers of all time, my three toppers would be, it's Black Knight. That's pretty cool. I would put Mando in there. And the Chicago version of Attack from Mars is pretty decent. Those are the three that make me go, that's something I like looking at. Batman is pretty cool, but it's just plastic. It's got a cool light. Yeah, I would agree. I think that the Attack from Mars one is just – it just looks like you're getting a lot for the money with that. Just because it has the chunky figurine, that figurine looks money. Whereas whether you've got others that might have better lighting effects, they are just acrylic that have been printed with some light shows. And that's why, again, you look at the Black Knight, it's got animatronic Black Knight. And then when you look at the Mandalorian, it's a hologram. Okay? Which, if we're honest, if we're honest, hologram technology is not expensive. But here's what it is. here's the magic. The magic is what looks like it's worth a shitload of money doesn't really cost a lot of money. And what you're not seeing there is obviously the program that goes into the hologram, right? That's money. But hologram technology itself is not all that expensive. He was showing me things with the Insider Connect, and it was showing you, like it would show you stats on there, on the hologram, which is really cool. I thought that was neat, but anyway, I liked it a lot. I also want to give a shout out to another topper that uh it doesn't do anything no it just looks cool i really like the stranger things one oh yeah that does look good i must say that does look good i mean who doesn't love infinity mirrors or lights whatever they call i i've always liked them what's that game god yeah gods of war or have you ever seen that big old game gods of war is that mars god of war yeah that's probably it yep that's a cool one yeah even space invaders which is a shitty game. Yeah, it's a base of haters. Nothing great.
    46:48
    Xenon? Has Xenon got one as well? No, I don't think so. Maybe some customs do, but anyway, those are fine. Anyway, it's a great topper. I'm not going to tell anybody to go out there and buy it. I'm not going to tell anybody that you shouldn't buy it. If it were me and I had a Mandalorian, I would 100% get that topper at that price. I think I would too. Yeah. And it also just aesthetically fits the game. Yeah. You know what I mean? It integrates. It does. So, yep. Yep. Well done. Think Stern will give us a cut us a check for that endorsement. I expect the delivery driver to be at my door any second now saying here is your free topper and a Mandalorian machine to go with it. Hey, so if you don't ask one thing I didn't do at Expo and every time I see this, I'm like, fuck, I got to do that one of these days. It's not exactly at Expo. It takes place during Expo. it's about 45 minutes to an hour away but every time i see it i'm like holy cow what am i missing can i guess can i guess what it is go ahead pinball olympics yes oh my god i was watching a video of it a couple of days ago i've i've i like you have always wanted to do it i feel i mean i haven't followed it every year but i feel like they've added new things this year and i feel that it is even fucking more bonkers than it's ever been before. Can you explain to people what the Pinball Olympics is for those people that don't know? In a nutshell, if you want to play pinball, you have to jerk off an Elmo.
    48:20
    Oh, my God, you do. You actually do, or you have to put your hand in someone's, in a butt. Yep. Oh, my God. Does that not have final round written all over it? It really does. I'm surprised we haven't been sponsoring this event. You think we're trying to be funny. We're not. I looked at some of the images. They're online. And where you think you would have to flip a flipper, no. There is Elmo with either a James Bond toy on that or a massive dick. And that's what you've got to pull to move the flippers. And then in years past, they've had Xenons where you just Google it, all right? Just look up Pimple Olympics. Some of them, there's one where you're in like a machine that has all the, it's like a wind machine that's throwing all these balls on top of you, like those little round ball pit balls on you. There's one where you've got to lie under the playfield and look up to a mirror that's showing the playfield. There's one where you've got the tilt bob on your head on a helmet. So if you move, it tilts. You know who would be good at pinball Olympics? What's that? Ryan C. Think it, because there's one that has flippers where you have to stick your fingers inside flashlights. Well, he's been doing shit like that for years.
    49:32
    Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's got an advantage over everyone. World champ. Give him the medals now. Yep. Just hilarious. So if I was going to Expo, I would totally do the Olympics. Yeah, yeah. Just letting you know. And it sells out, and it's all the tacos you can eat, and they got lots of booze and stuff. It's fun. So there's that, and there's this thing called Whirly Ball. Have you heard of that, Whirly Ball? No. Todd McCullough, 7-foot Canadian, former basketball player, lives out in the West Coast, operator now. We all know him and love him. Guest on this show. Has the same birthday as me. Ginger, even. He goes to Expo. Biggest man there, and also the biggest kid there, because he does all these kind of fun things. He's a great player, too. Doesn't even touch the tournament. Screw it. I'm doing whirlyball, which is bumper cars, basketball, just this crazy sport. That's on the Thursday, and then Pinball Olympics. I mean, he was this guy who's actually been to the real Olympics in Sydney of all places. And he's walking around Expo with five pinball Olympic medals around the whole time. Like the proudest man could be. It was good. So, yeah, that's something to do. Pinball Olympics. So what would you say was your highlight of Expo? I am glad I went because it's good to see the people. That was what it was really came down to, you know, chance to see a lot of people. And the reason I wasn't going, Marty, is because you weren't going. That's why, like, if you ever come to... It wasn't reason enough, obviously. I'm just saying, the point is, if you come to anywhere in the States or Canada, I will meet you there, because that's a long way to go. It's the least I can do. So that was kind of... That is true. You did say to me, if I was going, you would definitely go. No, I get that. So if Anne didn't say to me, yeah, I'm going away for the weekend, I was not going. There was a tournament I was going to play here locally. I was just like, I don't have to go to Expo. Kind of glad I did. You haven't even seen this. Go on to ifpapinball.com right now. You haven't even seen this yet. Okay.
    51:35
    Where am I going? Do it quickly because things could change very quickly. Click under the word country. Where am I going first? ifpapinball.com. If you were a tournament player like you once were, you would know that. It would be on your bookmarks on the front of your page. Click country. It's going to show Australia first. But scroll down to a little country known as Canada. Yep. Have you done it? You're number one? Number one in the country, my friend. And I'm only bragging about it now because it's not going to last. So look really quickly, but then click on my name and look at how I did at that little Pinball Expo tournament. What did we talk? 60 points. 60 fucking points for coming in fourth in a Classics tournament. Well, actually, you know what? That Classics tournament that you came second in the UK was worth 50 points. Which was my biggest haul ever until Expo. yeah and by the way number one got 60 points so yeah that's worth a lot of points I had to get in the top four guess who I had to beat oh he's gonna and he listens to the show as soon as it comes out it's gonna drive him nuts beat him two straight games in the UK in the classics tournament at Expo Raymond Davidson sorry Ray Day I joked about give me big game they didn't have it didn't need it went I don't even remember what I picked I think Stargazer and maybe 8-Ball Deluxe or I can't remember. Probably, I didn't know it. I do know what it was. It was Space Shuttle.
    53:03
    And Steven Bowden won that. Oh, he kicked ass too. Yeah, he was good. Yeah, I bet he did. He's a good classics player. He's a good player, period. Yeah, for sure. So anyway, that was a big haul and something I was very excited. So I'm glad I went to Expo. Favorite thing about Expo? Definitely the people. Rob Burke, congratulations. No, no.
    53:25
    Other people. Okay. Yeah, obviously. Obviously, we know that, right? If you listen to the current episode of Pinball Profile, I say exactly. You'll have to tell me. Well, it is out. It is out just after. Okay, it's not out when we record this. It's out before we released it there. The homebrew section. Yes. Okay. The homebrew section blows me away. I wish I could spend more time there. I, in fact, I'm looking at it right now because I actually had it bookmarked. I've just been looking at some of the photos from the homebrew section. These games are incredible. Like, they look like production games. Yep. Some of them. Well, but even, even, oh, and I'm going to boot the name. It starts with a D. It's a Japanese name. I can't remember. I'm not even going to try to boot it. Carl D'Angelo said it was his favorite thing about Expo. So it was this game, total whitewood game, no graphics on it whatsoever, three spinners, multi-ball, just unique shots. It had like a Spanish eye pop bumper in the bottom. Oh, yes, yes, I've seen videos of it. Yep, looks great. But it was, I mean, to shoot it. It was like Daikishu or something like that. That's it, and I'm not even going to try to say the name because I haven't heard it said, so I'm not going to be able to pronunciate it at all. So anyway, yeah, that was great. Elf was fun as hell. They had all these toys on this Elf game. there was this game called Greek Gods that had, well, if you listen to Pinball Profile, it reminded me a lot of Kelps.
    54:57
    So it had the center kind of, I want to say, iPad-sized screen where it had all that information. But it did something unique on Ball 3. If you scored over 30,000 points, that screen actually became transparent, and you could see an underworld play field underneath it. It was fucking so cool. Wow. So, yeah, it was a surprise. You're like, holy shit. And then, of course, the Dukes of Hazzard game from Jake Danzen. Yes. It won Best in Show, Best Homebrew. And you think, well, is that a homebrew? Because if you look, it's Paragon. It is Paragon, yeah. But it's obviously done completely different artwork and totally, totally different rules, including multi-rules. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. So that was, I know Jake had a lot of help from the Helms in Arizona. and it played so good too. Can I just say something? Now that I do art in pinball as the creative director or whatever, what I've seen in the past is when people do, it is a re-theme effectively of Paragon. Usually I look at it and I go, huh the art seems a bit hobby Have you noticed that with a lot of and I not talking about the ones that are Whitewoods That fine I haven got that But sometimes when they do put art on it seems a bit hobby-ish. This Dukes of Hazzard doesn't. It looks like it, like people will go up to them and go, oh, I didn't know that they released Dukes of Hazzard game before. I've got a buddy who is a massive Dukes fan. He has an actual General Lee. He has an actual cop car. He has Daisy Duke's Jeep. He has more money than brains, but he's a huge collector, right? And I showed him this pinball machine. He just lost his shit. Where can I buy it? I'm like, nah, it's one of one. Cut him a check. Maybe you can get it, but it's special. And you talk about the artwork. Hey, in 2022, they were very careful to remove the offensive Confederate flag that was on the top of the General Lee. They didn't paint it out. It's just never seen. So I thought that was a good artistic choice here in 2022. Sure.
    57:10
    Avoiding something that could be problematic. Exactly, right? So, I mean, I think, I don't know if they've digitally altered that on reruns of the shows. I think there was talk of it. But anyway, it is what it is. It was what was back in 1979 or 83 or whenever that show aired. But, yeah, it would be a very shocking thing to see in 2022, and they avoided that. Sure. Good on them. Freaking awesome. You know, these homebrews, and one thing at Expo is you see all these wonderful mods from anywhere. I mean, there's so many great places. Measle Mod's one I've been very close to for a long time. I love when they mod up games. Like, there's this company, and I'm going to fuck up their name. I think they're called Great American. I'm sorry if I get it wrong but they have a black and white version of Adam's Family and a black and white version of Twilight Zone that are just gorgeous to look at. You wouldn't think it would be but it just pops. It's spectacular but all the mods and things they have on these games and I noticed this when I was in the UK and playing Neil McRae's legendary Iron Maiden game with all disco music and he told me He gets in shit when he streams it because of the, in this case it's Stern, but it's anybody, that end-user license agreement, EULA, that we all, when we buy a game, we sign off. And it says if you mod up a game or change this and that, well, you know, there's always that fear, oh, they're going to brick the game on code updates and stuff like that. But I get that any company, in this case Stern, you know, they're selling the game and they're promising the license holders that these games won't be altered. if you're buying a Rush game, you're getting Rush music. If you're buying Zeppelin, you get Zeppelin. But he put on these incredible, funny disco songs and even changed the mode names too. Like they've got the disco names in there. He gets in shit whenever that streams. But when you buy the game and it leaves, I mean, I think of buying a car. I mean, people mod up games, change the rims, change the stereo, all this kind of stuff. Isn't it the same? Am I missing something?
    59:23
    Yes. Yes, I think you're missing what's necessarily in the agreements, because there are some agreements that say you cannot alter the visuals of certain things. But people change translates. People add mods. I mean... Yeah, they do. But, yeah, I mean, look, I think about it with cars, and maybe we had talked about this on the mystery episode that went missing. was that Deadmau5, that producer, musician. Canadian. Okay, cool. So Celine Dion, Justin Bieber, Glass Tiger. Go on. He bought a Lamborghini Huracan, and he changed – he did a new paint job, and there was a meme called the Nyan or Nyan Cat, whatever it was, and he actually changed the badge from Lamborghini to something else and Lamborghini sent him a cease and desist and he had to change it back. Really? Because it's in their agreement. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Really? So, yeah. Is it because he's who he is and high profile and people will see that? Yeah, I would say if anybody else did it, they probably wouldn't know about it, but because he did and he posted it up on social media everywhere, They're like, no, sorry, you can't do that. Wow. Yep. Because he signed it, they could, I'm just trying to find out what recourse there could be. That's right. He called it the Nyanbegini Purikan, as in pur, purikan. Anyway. Yep. Sorry. What, are they going to take the car back? Are they going to? I think they can.
    61:03
    No, I don't know. Like, again, what kind of action can they do? I mean, with these pinball machines, you run the risk of software updates not working or just lack of service, certainly voiding warranties. I get that. I totally get that. You mod up a game and you're messing with the warranty. That's not in question here. But, you know, once a game's gone and let's say it's been a few years, you want to fix it up? Well, I mean, again, it comes down to things like, well, Jurassic Park, for example, where people have put movie assets into the game. They did that with Guardians, too. And they did with Guardians. Well, they had the video assets. They put the audio assets. Oh, that's right. Yeah.
    61:44
    So it really comes down to how much, you know, it comes down to return on investment or return on effort. So if someone bought a pinball machine and did that, if the company, the license holder wants to go somebody for it, what are they going to get back? And is it worth their time? You know, like, is it worth their time stopping somebody or do they just turn a blind eye? if everybody did it then there'd be a problem. If Stern did it against their license agreement then there'd be a problem because Stern is much bigger. Well see that's what I don't understand because Stern, and again we're just using them as an example, everyone has it, but how could Stern get in trouble from Iron Maiden because this guy put disco music in it? I just believe, well it just depends on what contracts are in place and what the wording of the contracts are. There might be some onus on Stern to maintain the integrity of the license. And they are a vehicle to put that license out into the public under a different medium. So maybe there is some responsibility. The license holder is trusting Stern to do a particular game and perhaps they have to police it. It might be part of the agreement, it might not. I don't know the extent of these agreements. I don't think anyone's ever seen them. I think it falls under all things pinball. If people want to dress up their pinball machine, I was over at the Pins House. I mean, the custom toppers they had on that thing, those things were spectacular. Guns N' Roses one should be the Guns N' Roses topper. Yeah, but there's no money that's exchanged hands. If you then try to make that a commercial product, then there's a problem. Okay, so at the Twippies Awards, for example, you know, Stern's collecting all their awards, JJP, American, Haggis, all these people are available for awards, Spooky. but one of the awards they give out at the Twippies is best mods. Yep. Do they leave the room when that happens? Oh, we can't have mods? This is terrible. No, no, no. They do have mods but I don't think they have unauthorized mods on the list. They're pin stadiums. Well, pin stadiums there's no licensing issue there. Is there? And if you've got a shooter rod hmm yeah, but it's not, you're not having to alter the game, you're adding something to it but it's not altering the game, like you're not actually having to work on the game. Shooter rod, you're changing part of the game, something physical on it? Yeah, if that's licensed, fine but I don't think you'll find you know, somebody that's done a, I can't even think of an example but I saw somebody that did like an Indiana Jones hat and put it on the shooter rod for Indiana Jones? Yeah I'm just, my head's just going I was just thinking about the mods that I've put on my Wizard of Oz, for example. So there was the red smoke witch mod, which changes the actual shape of the witch and takes it out from being in an acrylic cylinder to being in like a cage. I think it's been ages of some machine. And there's also got these Oz letters, O and Z that go above the lanes. I don't know whether they are licensed or not. I would guess they're not. That's third-party stuff. But again, shooter-rots, flipper-bats for even... Like Deadpool. I've played so many Deadpools where they've got these great ninja stars on top of the pop-bumpers. That didn't come from Stern. These are all third-party things. But is the shape of a ninja star a copyrighted image or trademarked image, whatever it is? But again, I think it voids the end user license agreement. Hey, my Pop-Up Burger isn't working. Oh, sorry. I see you've added this. I'm giving a vague example, but... Well, I think it's a bit of an extreme example, really. Like, again, it comes down to how much effort will it take to turn that around and what's in it for Stern? Why would they? They would only do it if a license holder told them to, I would imagine. I think it's pin browser where you can, I've always wanted to change like three songs on my ACDC machine. How Dirty Deeds Didn't Make It. You know, I'd love to have that on or maybe remove some of the Rock Roll Train or whatever the far right one is, War Machine. Put some more Bon Scott songs on, whatever. I haven't done it and I know a lot of people that have because I thought, I don't want to brick my machine. You know, and I'm afraid of doing that. But I would like the machine a lot more if I could change the songs. so is maybe software the bigger concern with the end user license agreement as opposed to shooter rods and flipper bats and and pop caps and things like that what do you think i think if you're using a third-party piece of software to alter the code that's a problem yeah don't you think sure sure take that outside of pinball world if i if i find something that can hack into Microsoft like Word or Excel. It's got that stuff. But you know what I mean?
    66:57
    There's a line you cross where you are effectively, intentionally, willfully altering something as opposed to just doing a little bit of a trinket that goes on the top of a pop bumper. Where do color DMDs fall? Not quite programming? Because I think they look great on older machines. But it's also saying, what about upgrading your speakers? Where is this line? We just don't know where this line is that you could possibly cross to get into any sort of problem. And I still say the same thing. It comes back to the return on effort. That's a good point. You know, I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said on a podcast before, but when I was in the UK, I spent a day with Mark Silk, and I went to his place in Birmingham, and he's got a great collection, of course. He's just one of the most talented people we know, and he was at Expos, so he got to see a lot of people there. but he has a Star Wars home pin with maybe the greatest sound system I ever heard. And I know Jerry Thompson might have been at his place too and might have remarked, holy shit, like what have you done? And there's this guy, and I can't remember his name, I won't say Pinball Phil, or somebody in Birmingham who just is a god when it comes to upgrading games. And I'm all for it. That's my whole point. This whole discussion is maybe you have to put in the end user. or license agreement there just to say to the licensees, hey, look, we got in there, we did our part, but after it's sold, we can't, you know, maybe that's all that's in there, but I want to see. Yeah, it's liability. It's basically, Stern have said, you've been told you're not to do this. So if you do it, then it's on you. So I remember there was, I don't know whether they're still around, but there was somebody that did provide a service to change the music in a game. and I believe his way around it was you needed to provide him with the music and you needed to own the music. Oh, I know who it is. I don't know if we should say it, but I definitely know that. Yeah. Yep. Might also be a Canadian.
    69:00
    Right. I may have met him and he's a freaking super nice guy. Anyway. Holy shit. Almost an hour and 20 minutes before edits. I know, right? We should get out while the getting's good. I don't think we fucked this one up. I've got the rest of a public holiday to enjoy. Okay. Before you ask, yes, it's because of a horse race. I just don't understand how you have a public holiday on a Tuesday. The only time we have a holiday that is not on a Monday or a Friday in Canada Day is July 1st. Canada Day.
    69:32
    I think, does your Australia Day, is it always January 27th or is it always the first Monday? January 26th. Oh, 26th. Okay. Is it always that date? Always? Yep. Okay. So it doesn't matter what day it falls on. It could be a Wednesday. That's right. But you have a holiday today because of a horse race on a Tuesday?
    69:52
    Correct. Explain. Now, I'm not sure, but that's why I'm frantically working it out. I believe it's the first Tuesday in November. But why?
    70:06
    Because it's a horse race. Don't you guys also have the AFL, the day of that final? You have a day off? Correct. Holy mother. Yep. So, do you know what? It's interesting. I mean, the grand final public holiday is controversial in itself. Melbourne Cup is even more controversial because of the fact that there's animals that usually... Now, it's 2.20, so I don't even know what time it's on. I think it's either on now or it's going to be on at some stage. But usually, oh, I shouldn't say usually, but a lot of the years that this has been on, horses have been put down after the race. Ooh.
    70:49
    So it's quite a controversial public holiday. Yikes. And I think there's like a hashtag stop the cup thing. And it is. It's the first Tuesday in November. So that's why it's today. I've seen hashtag sniff the cup, but I think that was something different.
    71:10
    Oh, no, that was something Ryan sent to me. That was something, the cup that you're talking about. Okay, you want to reach us. Are we still on Twitter? Are we still going to do Twitter? Are we going to get all our notes? We're not going to shut it down, but we just don't do anything with it, really. It's email us at finalroundpinball.gmail.com, Final Round Pinball podcast on Facebook and on Instagram, and it's at FinalRoundPin on Twitter. Sounds like you can reach us. When you reach out to us, there's a good chance we will make another episode. You don't, there's a good chance we'll say, go to hell. That's it, we're done. Yeah, yep. So reach out to us, please. Reach around. I did think about maybe, maybe doing that again. It's like a 20% thought. I'd love to do it, but it has to be perfect. I mean... Yeah, it's one of those things with the amount of effort that went into it, it's really probably taking two years for you to forget about the pain to even consider it. Why do you think I said no to hosting the Twippies? You know what I mean? I know what it was like to do the returnees. That was just audio. I mean, to do a proper, proper job of the Twippies, and I've been fortunate enough to be asked a couple times, I just thought, first of all, I'm in the tournament, so I would have to devote a lot more time to outside of the tournaments, which is not really what I want to do.
    72:29
    Maybe when my tournament days are done. Maybe, if they still give a shit, but by then I'll be long gone or dead. One of the two.
    72:37
    Anyway, it's nice to be asked. Although, Marty, you and I doing it, that would be a different story. Oh, mama. Oh, you thought jerking off Elmo was bad. Forget it.
    72:51
    I feel, after many years of doing the twerpies, I think I've been permanently banned so oh the tour fuck I love that was so much fun I know but I still someone who worked the other day who found out that I did podcasts so I mentioned I did Head to Head and Far Around and they said so if I was going to start which episode would you recommend and I said the Chris Granner episode from Head to Head my favourite and the Reach Arounds for Far Around really?
    73:24
    yep that's what I said I said, you will just not find a better produced podcast, certainly in pinball, but certainly in a lot of podcasts. That was the amount of effort that went into that show. I'm going to tell you a story. So we do not ask. I think I get emailed or I don't know if it's sent to pinball profile or final round or whatever. Dennis Creasel sends us the stats on downloads for the shows. And you and I both don't give a shit at all. We assume two people, maybe three. He sends it to us, and it shows all the stats of all the shows. So now it's fucking open. Now I got to look, and the one I was curious about was the reach rounds because of how much effort was put into that show. Yes. And I was like, oh, okay. I guess people don't care.
    74:13
    So anyway, that once 20% will do it again is now down to 15% as I'm reminded of that. All right. I got some Halloween candy. If you want us to bring it back, please email us. I don't know. Pinballachiema.com. Attention, Jeff Teolas. No. But, hey, it's good to do this again. And, again, this show is going to be released, unlike the last one. Oh, what was said? You'll never know. Click here to find out. All right, Marty. Take care. Thanks, everybody. We will speak again to you soon-ish, possibly. I don't know. Look, if we don't do a show by now, I'm sure there'll be a head-to-head before Christmas. So you'll get your Marty fixed. Yeah. You'll get your Marty fixed. For sure. Thanks everyone Later