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Ep 143: All's Quiet

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 5m·analyzed·Aug 12, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Haggis fallout, Metallica Premium-only rumor, and reflection on startup scaling problems.

Summary

Josh and Scott discuss the Haggis Pinball bankruptcy situation, Funhouse remake deliveries, a potential Premium-only Metallica vault edition, and upcoming Stern releases (X-Men '97, Pokémon speculation). They emphasize the importance of distributors like Flippin' Out and reflect on company scaling failures and crisis management in small businesses.

Key Claims

  • Metallica vault edition is rumored to be Premium-only, not a three-tier release

    medium confidence · Josh cites 'reliable sources' talking about this being 'cooked' more and more, but explicitly frames it as rumor

  • Haggis Fathom playfields suffered delamination issues during shipping due to heat warping the protective acrylic layer

    high confidence · Kerry Hardy video evidence cited; customer received replacement playfield through Flippin' Out advocacy

  • Stern has three production lines at the factory

    medium confidence · Josh is uncertain: 'I can't remember for sure. Two? There might be a third.' Witnessed John Wick LE production during factory tour

  • X-Men '97 is the 'cornerstone' Stern release coming next, not Pokémon

    medium confidence · 'That's where all the smoke's coming from.' John Borg believed to be designer due to theme fit

  • Ellen's next game after King Kong is Leviathan

    medium confidence · Scott mentions 'Leviathan's coming out next' in response to Ellen designing King Kong

  • Flippin' Out lost approximately $90,000 on Haggis Funhouse issues (NAP Arcade report, possibly underestimated)

    medium confidence · Josh: 'It could be more. That's certainly speculation.' Distributor absorbed customer losses

  • George Gomez explained that dimpling on pinball playfields is inevitable due to steel ball hardness exceeding wood hardness

    high confidence · George Gomez response cited directly; explained hardness scale physics

  • Keanu Reeves appeared unaware of his John Wick pinball machine during Comic-Con

    medium confidence · Josh references Keanu's reaction 'When did this happen?' at Comic-Con

Notable Quotes

  • “This is one of the reasons why going through a distributor like Flippin' Out is to your advantage. Because you have an advocate for you with the manufacturer.”

    Josh Roop @ early in episode — Core business lesson about distributor value in pinball market

  • “I think he's got – and that's the thing too: they actually ask their designers, 'Like, we have this license. Who wants to do it?' And so they've actually dropped licenses because it's not resonated with anyone.”

    Scott Larson @ middle section — Insight into Stern's designer preference system for IP licensing

  • “The problem is the cover-up of an issue always ends up being worse than the problem itself.”

    Josh Roop @ end of episode — Key observation about Haggis crisis management failures

  • “When a company starts, they typically start small and they start building up slowly. And the challenge is once you start building up, you need to go from 10 miles an hour to 20 miles an hour... if you start jumping steps and trying to go ahead of what your company is qualified to do, there are going to be lessons that you have not learned.”

    Josh Roop @ final segment — Business scaling philosophy applied to Haggis' problems

  • “If I have to pull a whole freaking pinball playfield out to swap it out, we've got an issue.”

    Scott Larson @ Haggis discussion — Contrasts minor vs major quality issues; playfield problems are deal-breakers

  • “If you buy these machines, expect to use them as they are intended. Expect to use them as machines. Otherwise, they're a museum piece.”

    Josh Roop @ dimpling discussion — Pragmatic stance on normal wear and tear expectations

  • “I'm hearing that. And honestly, it's gotten so quiet. It usually gets this quiet when we're about to have a release.”

    Josh Roop @ Metallica vault section — Industry pattern recognition for release timing signals

Entities

Loser Kid Pinball PodcastorganizationJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonFlippin' Out PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonHaggis PinballcompanyKerry HardypersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball bankruptcy; company failure to scale properly; crisis management failures (cover-ups worse than problems)

    high · Kerry Hardy ongoing investigation; government and liquidation documentation; Josh's detailed business failure analogy

  • ?

    event_signal: Kerry Hardy producing multi-part investigation of Haggis situation; information rapidly evolving and becoming obsolete

    high · 'Kerry even put in the comments: There's still more information coming out. Some of the information in this interview is obsolete'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Sympathy for affected customers and employees (Martin Robbins, Steve Bowden) during Haggis crisis; caution against unfair blame on non-executive staff

    high · Josh: 'He's not the PR person... he is not responsible for the solvency of the company... be very respectful of that'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Designer assignment pattern: John Borg on X-Men '97 (action/drama fit), Ellen on King Kong/Leviathan (monster expertise), Jack Danger on Pokémon (implied interest)

    medium · Josh and Scott speculation: 'I don't see Borg being a Pokémon kind of guy... only Jack Danger would care about that theme'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern designers have veto power over licenses; company has dropped IP deals when no designer expressed interest

    high · Scott: 'They actually ask their designers... and so they've actually dropped licenses because it's not resonated with anyone'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.195

0:00
thanks for tuning into the loser kid pinball podcast we're on episode 143 i am josh roop with me my co-captain as always scott larson and yes i didn't screw it up this time yes finally guess what guess what i saw on the net today scott what did you see josh i saw those beautiful new Funhaus remakes coming in from Pendretti to our good friends. Pedretti.
0:32
Pedretti. Not Pendretti. I know, but it sounds so much better. It really does. You need to change your name. I think it does, too. It's an Italian thing. I don't know. But Zach and Nicole got some of them in today. Zach has made a video on the gameplay. I mean, honestly, okay, I might not be a fan of the LE artwork. That's subjective. That's entirely me but these games look great it looks fun yeah i'm hearing wonderful reports from the first uh first buyers um this is what you want in a company that's starting up right and plus we'll get into the haggis stuff a little bit later but if you've been watching the carry hardy videos and stuff like that flipping out has backed their customers so well a lot of these People took a gamble and really didn't lose because Zach Nicole has lost. It was like $90,000 is what NAP Arcade was reporting. Just for them, it could be more. I think it's more. That's certainly speculation, but this is one of the reasons why going through a distributor like Flippin' Out is to your advantage. Yes. Because you have an advocate for you with the manufacturer. If you go straight through the manufacturer, you really don't have that. And we're going to get into what Zach and Greg at Flippin' Out did for our friend Doug. But definitely, if you're going to get something, go to Flippin' Out, buy something. I actually ordered the Godzilla, not the Jaws, the Godzilla 70th edition for my friend. so we're we're hooking them up and i'm really interested to see how it is in person i agree man and you know what seriously hit them up their website is flipping out.com they got their phone number there i like to message zach directly off a messenger but it sounds like if you have any issues you can give them a call directly or even text them so hit them up zach and nicole many and like you said greg bone those are our people let's we got plenty of stuff on the list today i know there hasn't been a ton of news we got some speculation we obviously want to get in the haggis stuff before we get into the haggis stuff though it's kind of um let's do a quick update because i want to say thank you to those who reached out to me uh we record the episode on pioneer day which for those that don't know in utah the 24th of july is when the pioneers came across the plains and said this is the place they entered into the valley yes they entered that's when they entered into the valley yeah okay sorry then then brigham young had said later on that this is the place and this is where we're staying um but it's funny because that isn't our first time like recording on pioneer day and then i totally space yeah i totally space like the next day that it's my birthday i didn't say anything because like honestly we had shane told on from silverstein which dude is amazing shane's great yeah awesome dude and uh and check out his uh check out his podcast too um lead singer syndrome yeah yes or his music silverstein absolutely but um it was funny because i was going to mention that and then i didn't and then like like two in the morning i have like like do not disturb turned on to like seven so as soon as seven hits my phone's like hey by the way you have all these notifications i have like 50 something by time my wife's like shut your phone off but thank you thank you to everyone who reached out and said happy birthday it was very nice and very generous of you all right and so we went to deadpool and wolverine and okay i didn't but you did i did yeah and and which is funny because like i was telling scott i've been in an r-rated movie in the theater since the very first jackass came out which was like i was 16 and i just turned 37 so 21 years ago that's like the last i just don't watch much radar content it just it's not your thing it's fine yeah it's very hit or miss but i'm actually watching ted lasso right now if you're not watching that that is good stuff Yeah. But Deadpool and Wolverine was fantastic. I'm excited because we were talking with George Gomez. Remember, we did this live. Yeah. In that interview. And he did not shoot down the idea of a Deadpool Wolverine. No, man, that was so good. And by the way, I'm taking full credit for it because I'm the one who said, hey, there's one coming out. You get the the double feature. OK, someone someone needs to get a whole Ryan Reynolds because if he gets involved with the project, it's happening. Wow. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. We should get Ryan Reynolds involved. We should get Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman. I mean, obviously, there's a price tag there. But the dude, like, Ryan Reynolds paid to have the B. Arthur T-shirt in the Deadpool movie. I don't know if you know that. So anybody who knows Ryan Reynolds, just blast him out. Tell him that we need to make this happen because we want the Deadpool Wolverine pinball machine. Maybe we should just hit him up on X now or something like that. There you go. Yeah. But fantastic. And you know what's funny, too? I don't know if you, I sent this to you when we were, it's been a couple of weeks, but Comic-Con happened and Keanu Reeves is playing John Wick. Yeah. And he's like, when did this come out? Like, he was kind of like, when did this happen? Yeah. And it's so funny because I really, most artists are kind of detached from the marketing standpoint. Yeah. So it is interesting. I would, I would think that a pinball machine would be a bigger deal than a lunchbox, but you know, maybe. Yeah. Maybe not. but it's funny too because i don't know if you listen to the most recent slam till it just came out yesterday but they were talking about this and he's like they they likened it unto johnny depp with nightmare on elm street and when they did the next when they did like the reboot or whatever they reached out to the original cast except for johnny depp because they thought well he's such a big actor now right you want to be a part of it and then when the movie came out johnny depp's like i would have loved to been a part of this you should have hit me up like right yeah i would have made this work you know yeah there's a lot of assumptions going on like with but with what artists want and some artists are a pain in the butt. Others are nice. Well, that's what I loved about having Shane on. He kind of gave us a peek behind the curtain with like music artists and stuff. Right. And it's like, not what you know, but who, you know, kind of situation. If you got their phone number, you can more than likely just make it work. It's not a big deal, you know? So yeah. A lot of times it's getting through the, the agent paywall, so to speak. Yeah. It's the gatekeeping, right? You got to get her. And I, I do understand. Cause otherwise they, would be inundated by everything so i i get it but there are there is like a coolness factor with a lot of stuff with pinball that's what i think i agree but it was great to see keanu on a pinball machine playing john wick that was fun that was that was pretty awesome so um what have you what's been going on i keep jumping around sorry scott what's been going on with you what's what you've it up to um okay so we we have we have two cats and we got a kitten for my daughter and i've never appreciated how feral established cats can be when you in when you introduce a kitten into the mix okay we've had to have our cats separated for like a week and a half so if anyone has any suggest we start slowly try to integrate them but it's hilarious because they are they are usually the chillest cats but they have gone after each other oh my goodness yeah weird stuff um let's see what else uh friend uh friend of the show uh garrett uh he's one of my local buddies he called me and he was going to be trading his stranger things which i'm kind of disappointed because he he buys games and he blings them all up oh yeah We're talking powder coat. We're talking extra stuff. Yep. And I was really excited to see a stranger things, but he turns over games like every two months.

“There's a billion Metallicas out there. And they don't want to invest a lot of resources into two-tiering it.”

Scott Larson @ Metallica discussion — Economic rationale for Premium-only vault strategy

John Borg
person
George Gomezperson
Ellen (Stern designer)person
Jack Dangerperson
Metallicagame
X-Men '97game
Pokémongame
King Konggame
Leviathangame
Deadpool and Wolverinemovie
Godzilla 70th Editiongame
Jaws 50th Anniversarygame
?

leak_detection: X-Men '97 described as Stern cornerstone release with 'all the smoke coming from' this title

medium · Josh: 'That's where all the smoke's coming from' regarding X-Men '97; John Borg designer speculation

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Deadpool/Wolverine pinball potential discussed with George Gomez; no designer interest confirmed but Ryan Reynolds involvement could accelerate project

    low · Josh: 'Someone needs to get a whole Ryan Reynolds because if he gets involved, it's happening'

  • $

    market_signal: Funhouse Remake positive initial reception and strong distributor support contrasts sharply with Haggis problems

    high · 'Wonderful reports from first buyers... these games look great. It looks fun. Zach has made a video on the gameplay'

  • $

    market_signal: Metallica Premium-only vault strategy eliminating Pro tier despite prior market demand for lower-cost option

    medium · Scott: 'There's a billion Metallicas out there... they don't want to invest resources into two-tiering it' and 'you're not going to pay $2,500 for a hammer'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern factory running at capacity with production scheduling affecting release timing; Metallica vault timing unclear ('this month or next month or next year')

    medium · Josh notes unusual quiet period before releases; mentions checking factory tour status as timing indicator

  • ?

    product_concern: Haggis Fathom playfield delamination during shipping; protective acrylic warped by container heat

    high · Kerry Hardy video evidence; customer received replacement through distributor advocacy; issue widespread enough for Damien to create special shipping box

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern release schedule includes Metallica vault, X-Men '97, King Kong, Leviathan; timing compressed but exact dates uncertain

    medium · Multiple games mentioned; factory tour observations; timing indicators like unusual quiet periods

    • 8:20
    And so he was selling them now. Go with me on this. This is what he said he could get. So it was his powder coated, really nice stranger things premium. And he called me and he made three options. And then you can tell me which one you would do. And I'd tell you which one I told him to do and which one he did. Okay. So one option was dialed in LE.
    8:43
    Okay. The other option was Turtles Premium. Okay. And the other option was, okay, I'm kind of blowing it because I don't remember what the other option was.
    8:57
    Oh, what was it? Turtles Premium and, okay, it was one other, but I can't remember exactly which one it was. But I told them dialed in. because it was like, actually, I just don't see that. Like, Dialed In is a different type game. Turtles, and it was a premium. I said, I own Turtles Premium, and the problem is I found it way too hard, and the glider was unreliable on mine, so it really soured my taste.
    9:27
    And so he got some money back, and he got it, but he was really worried because he has a really narrow entrance to his basement. And so I just said, show me proof of life if you actually get it downstairs. He has a basement that can't even have toppers in it because the ceiling is so low.
    9:43
    Okay. Did you see that people with the labyrinth that bought the topper? And so they actually cut up between the joist space and then drywalled it. So that way the topper, you know what? Good for you. Make the house your own, right? Modify your basement. Modify your pinball machine. Modify your basement. If they ever sell the house, you're going to be like, what in the world? Just this random hole right here. Random hole.
    10:06
    Yeah, man. Ooh. Okay, I'm really blanking on what the other one was, but the other one was a game that I – I was like, I just don't see that sticking around your collection very long. It sounds like you picked – I'm not going to lie. I enjoyed Turtles Pro. I think it's the better one out of the two. I told him that too. I was like, I would go with Pro. Yeah, the premiums, it's subpar. And it's funny that you say that because like Joel and Jared did a flip an out stream where they did like a you make your own tier list. And everyone agreed with mine except for Turtles was like – so it was like S rank. So if you're into video games, S rank is like the like perfect rank and A through D. And then like there was a never played. And so I had Turtles at A and Bond at D. Yeah, I didn't agree with that. so they they're like you're right up until turtles and bond and like if you flip those two you have a perfect list i was like well yeah these are subjective so but it's good to know that like apparently i need to play bond if someone's got a bond out there that they want me just can let me borrow for like a month or two so i can get used to it may i love the game maybe i will but i just i haven't had enough time and the experiences that i have had weren't great so um Yeah, it's – okay, Bond is fine. And if you really like the theme, it is a fine – it's a fine integration for the theme. Bond is not really a huge theme for me. So that's why I didn't really jump in. Hey, we've talked about it, right? You kind of want to – you do. You don't kind of. You do want a connection with the theme of the game because that's part of what draws you into the storyline. which is partly why i connect with iron maiden and other people do not because i like the theme yep so oh and one random note so uh i've lost like 12 pounds in the last whoa 10 days good for you okay intentionally or intentionally yes okay so i'm doing the whole no sugar very little carbs mostly just meat and veggies kind of thing you know and fruit so okay that's fine eventually like that's not super sustainable just FYI. Yeah. Well, I'm not being very – I even had a slice of pizza yesterday. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's not all just – I know it's not super sustainable, but I'm having some carbs here and there, but I'm watching my carbs versus like having half a pizza all to myself. You know what I'm saying? And just in case you're wondering, Josh is a sexy beast. Well, thank you. So I was doing really good until Monday hit and I got the stomach bug and I was like, oh, great. I did lose weight then though but then the next couple days I was like I need carbs so yeah no it's yeah it's kind of fun but yeah it's anyway well good for you healthy choices I figure my family's got diabetes and I should probably learn to regulate my sugars as is you know what I'm saying it's better to regulate and have sugar for the rest of my life than to binge now and not be able to have it later you know what i'm saying so yeah no i i get it and actually uh um i i started uh taking my health a lot more seriously when i got in my 40s and it's kind of an occupational hazard because i see so many people who get in their 50s and 60s who in 70s who just did not invest in their health yeah and and so that was really what you know so i've been doing that for about the past five to seven years. Gotcha. Good times. Now you're healthy. You're fit. You're able to lug pinball machines around more and you're ready to go. You know what?
    13:55
    What are we talking about this week? I'm hearing a pretty solid rumor. Do I want to quote it as a rumor? I'm hearing the new Metallica that's coming out. Whether it be this month or next month or next year. premium only. I hear that we're getting a premium only. And I hear this cooking a little more and more as reliable sources have been talking to me about it. So what are your thoughts on that, Scott?
    14:25
    That makes sense. On a vault edition, you're not going to go through the whole pro premium LE options. Because what's going to happen is you're doing a vault, you're basically re-releasing something that has demand uh you also won they they made the mistake with jurassic park they and they fixed it with jaws where they released the jurassic park 30th edition which was an le so it did tick off the our le buyers oh okay mando you mean with godzilla yeah sorry oh by the way mandalorian premium was the other option and i told him i think i like the pro better so that that's oh no it was mandalorian le and i was like i i would choose i would choose dialed in so that was me um yeah so with the with the 30th of jurassic park they really did tick off a lot of people so having that option of saying okay we are going to do a premium product and the whole point of having a pro so you can sell them on location that really is and with these vault additions there's a billion metallicas out there and they don't want to invest a lot of resources into two-tiering it it makes sense to me just to make a premium version of it well it makes sense to me because like when they usually vault something you only usually vault one they don't you like you said they don't you two-tier like they did a spider-man vault they did just this there was no pro and pre it was just spider-man well okay there weren't okay spider-man didn't really have spider-man just had the black edition and the standard edition okay remember that and the black edition just had like a different back glass yeah but like metallica the only difference is the hammer there not much difference between the pro and the medium So it like why make a two system when you know people would more than likely gravitate towards the pro There's not much difference, and there's a pretty good price gap. Like, you're not going to pay $2,500 for a hammer that knocks a ball into the play field. Yeah. So there's so many pros out there that if you want to get the older version, you can get a Metallica pro. Yeah. So it's got to be worth their time money wise. And maybe I guess you could argue like, well, they'd sell thousands of pros and so it'd be worth their time. I don't know. So but that's just what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that that and honestly, it's gotten so quiet. usually gets this quiet when we're about to have a release.
    17:05
    I haven't called the Stern Factory. I don't know if someone has. If you call and ask for a tour and they say, sorry, we're shut down for the next two weeks or something like that, they're building them, so you know you're within two weeks of seeing it. I'm not telling you to go do that. I'm just saying that's what they told us on the Stern Factory tour.
    17:23
    We did see Deadpool's on the line. at least the release that they made last Friday they were making Deadpools that week well and they can run different things on I mean I guess they probably would just run both lines full bore they got three lines there now right I can't remember for sure two there might be a third it was hard to tell because when we went John Wick was everywhere and so that's all they were making is they were making the LEs so it was hard to it was really hard for me to delineate where the lines broke up yeah so let's talk cornerstone i'm hearing x-men 97 like that's that's where all the smoke's coming from um i'm still hearing pokemon but here's my thing i really think danger's on pokemon if that is the case and i think borg is on x-men and the reason i say that is because i don't see them putting borg on a pokemon game because i i don't see borg being a pokemon kind of guy yeah and and they usually really i don't see elwynn being a pokemon kind of guy and i don't really see eddie being a pokemon so really the only person who would care about that theme would be jack danger yeah and i think he's got and that's the thing too is is they actually ask their designers like we have this license who wants to do it and so they've actually dropped licenses because it's not resonated with anyone it's just not like their jam and so i don't know that's the other thing too i'm hearing that like i mean nap arcade said that like ellen's next game's king kong which makes sense like we talked about him being the monster guys he's a monster guy but is that all we're going to see from ellen from here on out it's just monsters like i don't know like well leviathan's coming out next so oh okay so i don't know there's some juicy tidbits for you okay but okay if you had your choice for metallica would you want a premium version or would you rather have a pro version i'd rather have a pro okay i think it depends on what this new one but here's the thing the thing to remember is the one thing they do with the vault additions and this is this is a little different version and again this is all speculation but it seems to be an open secret by now that this is happening this is not necessarily a vault this is almost like a vault 2.0 yeah so there's going to be some changes we know in vault additions they go through and they look at the machine find the weak points find the things that aren't working super well and they update update them so the bay the main issue with the hammer was wasn't that reliable it was kind of a pain and it uh it inhibited the flow and therefore the people like the pro better yeah so i'm guessing they took a look at that and figured out a way to fix or reincorporate the hammer and so it it actually flows better in the game well it's hard too because like if they got a bunch of concert footage and they actually have an lcd versus a dmd i know that's appealing to some people i just there's a lot more it's like it's hard to compare it's almost apples and oranges at this point it's not just an art package like i'm not gonna lie i probably would have got a godzilla godzilla 70th if my game wasn't as modded as it is like if i i don't want to tear those all out to put into a new game i would have got up godzilla myself a 70 myself except my my wife saw it and i when i sent out the post i'm like hey what do you guys think and she said they both look nice i prefer the color so and i've heard the game is amazing i've heard it's come in and it's just it's beautiful i've seen a video of it i'm gonna see it because my friend's getting it so we're gonna set it up and i will definitely give you an eyes only update okay let's move on to uh haggis since i've got that next to my house i kind of want to get them out of the way yeah um um okay um okay i will say go and watch the carrie hardy video yeah he he's he's going to be doing multiple editions of it and it does talk about a few issues in that um but what i do want to talk about is josh now that we know a little bit more of haggis what is your gut feeling what is your take on this it is questions do you have to i want to know that i have so many questions and it's kind of bizarre because it's like i can't remember the first gentleman that was interviewed by carrie but he talked about like yeah he was still taking money and stuff like that but he was following up on promises he was making so it was like the gentleman received his fathom and the playfield was shot like it like the plastic so if you don't know about the haggis playfields they were wood and then on top of that was a protective sheet of plastic or acrylic and and apparently when they came over on the shipping containers it warped it because of the heat and stuff like that and so so it delaminated and yeah so when you have multiple layers and the adhesive between one layer and another separate then that's the delamination process and that apparently is what happened correct yeah and so the gentleman did really He talked to Damien directly, and Damien said, we'll ship you a new play field, but I've got to build a box so we can ship it and create one that's not going to cause any issues. And so the guy was like, yeah, sure, whatever. So he turned to Zach because he bought through flipping out, and Zach took care of him. He's like, don't worry about it. So they got it taken care of. But then the gentleman saw Damien actually did make the box for another guy with the play field. It just sucks because a lot of the haggis experience I had, I had at Pinball Expo. on a fast game that was made and you played that one with me right it was nice yeah yeah it was really nice and so we saw that and then like steven strom a friend of the podcast we've known for years he got a kelts but they weren't doing the acrylic on the kelts this this was pre-acrylic right and and his game played awesome and it's just weird it's like and it sounds like all the issues they were having and we've said this a million times like was with the play field and I don't want to have issues with the play field. People complain about the coil stops. Whoop-de-doo. They're like five bucks for a coil stop. You can swap them out. Yeah. It's two screws and swap them out. Like, yeah, like I hear you. It sucks. Like they bought a million of them. They're probably still going through. Whoop-de-doo. But if I have to pull a whole freaking pinball play field out to swap it out, we've got an issue. You know what I'm saying?
    24:12
    And so, uh, it just, it sounds like the fathom just totally destroyed. them it sounded like they they tried they tried to fix a problem that wasn't really like you can talk about dimpling all day but like seriously go look at all your old games everything they all have dimples yeah it's just it is what it is i don't know by the way george gomez had an amazing response to someone about dimpling he asked and george gomez hops in and says this is the situation he talks about hardness scale and he talks about the you know the hardness of the wood versus the hardness of the ball and the plastics and the the the too long didn't read of it is anytime you have a steel ball interacting with a wood regardless of how solid the wood is the steel ball is always going to be harder it's hit with velocity you're transferring momentum into the play field and eventually you're going to have little dimples okay but uh i i've said it before if you buy these machines expect to use them as they are intended expect to use them as machines otherwise they're museum piece yeah but if you're interacting with that that's going to happen so trying to retrofit this thing for really an issue that's not really much of an issue For me, there are some people who, yeah, it's a huge issue for them. For me, dimpling is not a big deal.
    25:48
    It seems like more and more and more is coming out. I just watched the Kerry Hardy interview about two days or three days ago. Even at that point, it had only been out for like two days. And Kerry even put in the comments, there's still more information coming out. Some of the information in this interview is obsolete. It had only been out for two days. right so i think it's definitely gonna be a whirlwind for the least probably till the end of the year uh till everything kind of dust settles i mean really we've we've kicked a wasp nest and we're still dealing with the aftermath right now right um i just i don't know what to to do about the whole situation there's nothing i can do no um it just it sucks because there's a lot of people that got involved there's a lot of speculation um and it's hard because we don't have like full 100 we have a lot of details coming out which is great we're seeing stuff from the government from the liquidation stuff like that um but there is some pretty like off the wall speculation made that is affecting people's lives right now it's like guys calm down i get like some people lost money it's kind of the same scenario we do this every couple years it seems like uh it just it sucks and i feel for those that lost money I feel for those that have been affected.
    27:05
    But the other situation is too, it's like, I don't know. I keep going back to Steve Bowden. Like Steve Bowden, I felt bad for it because when he worked at Deep Root, that was all going under and people were seeing that. People were contacting him personally, demanding answers. Yeah, and that's the thing. He is not the PR person. He's not PR. Okay, it's the same thing. Martin Robbins, he's a friend of the show. He's not the head. And so ultimately, if anything, he's an employee, and he is not responsible for the solvency of the company.
    27:40
    And so we are – you want to be very respectful of that. What I will say in – I'm going to tell you a story that I had on a home renovation, and then I'm going to tell you how it ties in. Okay. Very quickly. We had a few home renovation stuff that we were doing. It wasn't a big deal. Some doors here and there, some painting, and there was a fence. And now I wish that we had really retooled the fence because it makes it a pain to move pinballs in and out. But that's a different story in itself. But we gave them half the money down. It wasn't a lot. It's $2,000. Okay. And we kept calling and finding out. And they're like, oh, yeah, no, we were they're really backed up on the fence and all this kind of stuff. But we'd still get calls occasionally. It's like, hey, are you interested in doing some renovations with I'm not going to say their name, but with so-and-so. And I said, actually, yeah, we are doing stuff with you and we still haven't heard. Oh, we'll we'll get back to you. OK, the bottom line is we finally contacted the actual fence people and they said we stopped working with them because they have unpaid bills with us. so finally I called them and they said, they actually called one time. They're like, would you, would you just prefer your money back? I'm like, yeah, I would. Okay. And then nothing happened.
    29:08
    And so I, I just said, you know, I'm just going to drive down. I know where they are. So I drove down and walked in and they, I said, I just want my money back. And they said, we don't have it.
    29:20
    He's like, okay. Like what's good. And what had happened in that situation was one of the owners, and it's a small business, and they've gone out of business now. One of the owners, I think, got sick and so got behind on stuff. But they still had expenses going out, and so they felt like this is me just looking back on it. I think they were still trying to buy time by asking for more people to sign up with them to get some advance money in to float them until they could catch up on this and then go through with it. Ultimately, it didn't happen, and they declared bankruptcy. Now, I also saw later in the news, local news, that actually there was a company that was doing a whole bunch of renovations and not applying for building permits. Same company.
    30:11
    Gotcha. So I ended up losing $2,000 in the deal. Now, here's my tie-in to the whole thing about Haggis. When a company starts, they typically start small and they start building up slowly.
    30:29
    And the challenge is once you start building up, you need to go from 10 miles an hour to 20 miles an hour to 30 miles. So you slowly increase what you can do as a company until you finally reach that steady state that you're looking for. So 60 miles an hour, 100 miles, whatever you're looking for.
    30:53
    And if you start jumping steps and trying to go ahead of what your company is qualified to do, there are going to be lessons that you have not learned from going slow that are going to come crashing into you. Part of the issue is when you start running into problems, the problem is the cover-up of an issue always ends up being worse than the problem itself.
    31:24
    So this is my humble opinion. The question is not what happened. It's when did they know and what did they do about it? Yeah. What I'm speculating, and this is pure speculation, they knew it was going south and they kept trying to give lip service that things were fine. And then when things became really bad, they could no longer catch up on the slow – they're still promising they're going at 50 or 60 miles an hour when they really could only go 10 or 20 miles an hour. And ultimately, they got out way over their skis, and it kind of crashed on them. Now, they were also using some clever, well-timed excuses, which we saw this with Deep Root, right? Yeah. And so they hid behind COVID when apparently that wasn't an issue at all. And so again if you stating an issue as an issue when it turns out not to be ultimately you going to start looking really bad because there a big difference between having company issues and blatant lies
    32:44
    And I would argue if it is as was reported that they really weren't affected much by COVID, but they used it as a shield, that a partial lie is a partial truth is still a lie. Yeah. And hiding behind that. Now, there are other things that are going on, but this is where when they knew what was wrong and what they were actually saying, that's when I start saying that's where the fault is. I don't think it's fault until you start collapsing as a company and then rolling out some crazy excuses that people cannot verify with their eyes or with the product. Yeah. And we see that so many times in life. And sometimes it's just so apparent that you can no longer hide what's going on. And that's what it seems like happened with them. My question is, because I know a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of loss, whether you you didn't get your product because you paid for it or you did receive your product. And there's more playfield in messages, emails may correct me if I'm wrong. if you did end up with a fathom and the and the playfield is jacked can you go to i think cpr is making reproduction of these playfields i can't remember who is i wonder if you could drop it granted it's a pain right like you're going to be right i wondered the same thing i know exactly what you're getting at doing your own playfield swap with a different playfield yeah or paying you know um hep to swap it out or or or finding a little local tech that's comfortable with doing it i just i'm curious if you could do like yeah it's not the best that can't be the only option though no i'm not going to let them hide behind a playfield submarine dust yeah because because i i guarantee that that would not um that would not be accurate the playfield didn't help yeah and having a playfield doesn't do it but blaming the entire company's demise on a play field seems disingenuous to be kind. It is, but I think what it was is it was hyper-focusing on a problem. Maybe. They were so transparent on trying to fix the dimpling issue because we hear that a lot. When there's drama to be had, the dimpling stuff comes up, right? Yeah, dimpling, ghosting.
    35:16
    Chipping, dimpling, ghosting. Yeah, and granted, the chipping on some of those early JJPs, I get. But anywho, I think overall, it just sucks. It's one of those things like if Damon was a con man, he's probably the weirdest con man I've seen out of all of them. This doesn't feel like that. Yeah, it doesn't. With Robert Mueller, then it came out that he was living a lavish lifestyle that was not sustainable. That's a different situation. This seems to be a well-intentioned company that just didn't have the skill set. Yeah. So I got on my news that ABBA has started shipping. People are starting to receive them. So if you are an ABBA fan, I guess it's time to start getting excited. So if you ordered yours. I'm still waiting to play it. I take the Nick Lane approach with pinball machines for the most part. is that unless it's a company that you are totally invested in that they are going to make your game, wait until it's available for your hard-earned cash and then buy it. That's always my take. And again, there are very few games that end up being unobtainable. Like the only one that I could possibly think of that is relevant is J.J.P. Pirates of the Caribbean.
    36:42
    I mean, Pinball Circus, but then again, at the pinball circus. No one owns it. There's two people. Yeah, but I'm saying like a game that's intended to be mass produced. Oh, gotcha. That one is this weird artificial shortage. We're not going to do a retrospective autopsy on that. But for the most part, even on super popular games, the most you'll ever pay over what you could have got if you weren't an early adopter is a thousand bucks. And for the most part, you can get it at price or below at a later date. I guess the only people that need to worry about the FOMO is the people that like the LEs. And even then, most of the time, the LEs – You can still buy those. Yeah. There's new LEs. There's a new LE every three months. Yeah. And so – which is funny because we've talked about like people still have Venom LEs, but I've heard that like John Wick is actually – a lot of people are selling out their LEs on the John Wicks. They are now, yeah. They're doing great. Okay. Okay, but the issue is if you're flexible on time, then as long as you're willing to wait for that game, you can find it. Yep, definitely. Definitely, definitely. All right. And if it's a great game, you can buy tons of them because there's a billion Godzillas out there. There's a billion Metallicas out there. cgc announced before they did medieval not medieval madness sorry cactus canyon that they were doing another run of medieval madness yes like 2023 or something like that yeah supposedly they're running 2023 or 2024 no originally they were going to run medieval madness in 2023 right uh granted we're well past that and we know that never happened medieval madness supposedly running in december of this year i would be intrigued to i mean if they need to buy some time for their next game which we we uh have a pretty good idea of what it is we think yeah yeah so um but we're not going to go into that right now but uh yeah if you're looking for that medieval madness hit up zach nicole yeah i actually i'm on the list because I have a friend who really wants one, even though I've got one. I think I want one. I'm not for sure. I'm kind of at that point where I don't know anymore. Your kid will like it. My kids will like it. The good news is it's a great gateway drug for pinball because it is straightforward. You can see exactly where you're supposed to go.
    39:09
    If CGC were smart, then they really should just have a dedicated line for medieval madness and pump out a few hundred a month. Because they will sell. I think if you're smart, you don't even announce this. You're just like, by the way, they're shipping now. Because that's the biggest problem with CGC, right? Like, we're going to make these. And we're like, sure you are in like a year and a half. So right now, at least CGC is making good on it. My gut feeling is the vibe is their quality is slipping a little bit. Yeah, it is. So I'm hearing more and more. I've heard a lot of people having issues with their cactus. I actually had one issue with it. But the good news is Butch was working with them at the time. And so I was interacting with them, and they ended up just sending me a new motor for the mine. And it ended up working really well.
    40:04
    We're hearing a lot of issues with Pulp Fiction, too. I'm hearing that. well the back box on the game we played at Logan arcade was separating from the, from the podium of it. Yeah. I'm like, Oh, this is just loose. I'll tighten the screws while I'm right here. Oh no, it was laminated. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah.
    40:24
    I was shocked. Yeah. And Logan's arcade is a, is a high volume arcade. So I do understand that. Okay. Here's another question too. I don't remember Josh. Did Logan's arcade have any Jersey Jack? No, not that I remember. I don't remember any. I, I remember there for a few hours and I kind of glanced around and saw a lot. I know we saw Pulp Fiction. We saw Galactic Tank Force. Yeah.
    40:51
    Um, but I, and even I, and you could argue they had some with really expensive toppers on them. Yeah. So it, it doesn't, I, I'm curious to find out why they're not there.
    41:04
    And you, you would think that JGP would want their games in a Chicago arcade that is played all the time. Well, and that's the other thing too. You think like, I don't know. You gotta, you gotta weigh the return on investment, right? So is it worth Jersey Jack to cut a deal and to put a game in there? Yes. Versus yes. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. So that, that's again, my humble take. And I have zero credibility on a business, business planning for pinball machines, but I would say yes. I personally think that us, we're not the demographic that Jersey Jack is looking for. Maybe. I could be wrong. Who knows? I bet they'll have a Harry Potter when it gets in there. Alright, Dutch Pinball Extreme, or what does that stand for? Extreme. Is it extreme? I don't know. They revealed a piece of Alice in Wonderland. Did you see this? Like the watch? Yeah, the pocket The amulet thing? Yeah. Yeah, it's a screen on the inside of it that's an LCD. Okay. Cool. Which is cool, but they've also done that with Wizard of Oz. They've also done it with Hobbit. The small screen, I think it's a cute gimmick, but there's nothing in that that says, I want to buy a machine with a small screen in it. Yeah. And that was part of why I looked at Toy Story and I said, really? You need a giant iPad in there? I'm not buying a game for an iPad. I want to buy a game because I want to hit the ball. Yeah.
    42:44
    Yeah, I just – It's cool. Okay. It's cool. I will be – I guess I'm not – honestly, I'm not excited to see this game. But I'll check it out when it comes out. It sounds like they're shipping more of their stuff over to Pinball Expo. and and hopefully they uh they hopefully it's out by then or they have a prototype there that'd be awesome so yeah no i i agree it'd be nice but it's okay it's fine this is what they do they do the teasers right they show like you know abba showed their helicopter and yeah you know just little things like that um i i don't know and pinball marketing does that work anymore that is like showing the underside of the play field i i glance at them like yeah there's a whole bunch of wires and mechs it it is like every play field kind of looks the same i think it does because people over the speculated yeah they make they make posts online saying this is a kicker and this is an up you know an up thing this is a subway i i think it's i think it's fun for the community it really doesn't hurt right the the company to do take a quick picture and make a post.
    43:53
    And that's fair. I remember when Mustang came out. And do you remember when Mustang came out? I don't know if I do. It was, here's Mustang.
    44:03
    And that was it. People were like, wait, you were making a Mustang machine? It was really out of the blue. Yeah.
    44:11
    So you're right. It's good to do these teaser things. And it's fine. Hey, it didn't look bad. Yeah. It didn't look bad. uh p3 just put out an update multimorphic okay uh i will just pretty much skim it for you it's essentially says uh bride of pinbot good criminy princess bride is shipping now it's in production um and then they have upgrade kits if you haven't upgraded your your p3 system you have one hit them up they've got like a back box upgrade and they have a uh kind of like a quality of life upgrade to the software and whatnot or to the hardware if i remember correctly uh and and these kits are free you just got to hit up jerry and he'll take care of you and it's like you go to the website you add it to their cart and then it's like free kit 2024 or something like that uh just just hit up jerry if you have like seriously if you haven't got it i assume you have but if not for some if you missed it uh grab it but they will be revealing that's good though yes because the biggest thing that we've talked about at least i've talked about is with p3 one of the issues is the you know it's like in video games right you have the playstation and you have the playstation 2 so you have consoles and this feels a little bit in that console category and unless they update the console and i okay it's a loose analogy but upgrade what the p3 is running then eventually it's going to be out of date with your and that's still your major thing that you're plugging your games into so it makes sense for them to keep going and this is their version of going like from spike to spike 2 and possibly spike 3 right yeah and it's definitely an upgrade I know some of the chips that are on there they can't get a hold of anymore. It's time. It's time to be swapping out boards and trying to do a quality of life for the system because you can't keep running a decade-old system on this stuff. Obviously, it's retroactive, right? It's reverse compatible.
    46:20
    I'm going to call it Cornerstone because really that's what – with P3, they have third-party games being made and stuff like that. Their next Cornerstone, it sounds like it's going to be out by TPF. So I can't wait to see what they got there. I think this one's another original theme. It sounds like they're going to be going with original theme and then license theme. They're going to kind of like Scott Denise's was an original theme, but it still had the Scott Denise name to it because it's Final Resistance. Right.
    46:49
    And which is an awesome game. People love that game. So there's something to look forward to from P3 coming in the next couple months. I guess probably in the next four months. Where are we in? We're in August. Good criminy. Why do I think it's the kids aren't in school yet? Yeah, that's this week.
    47:09
    And then the last thing I have is, uh, we actually received a product. I, I just got an email from jockton. Okay. I got to talk about jockton really quick. If you do not know jockton, uh, he sells pin shades. He, that's his primary company. Um, and I want to thank him really quickly cause he was one of our sponsors for flipping the script on autism granted that's been two years now coming up in october um but when we had items stolen from our booth on that last day uh jockton stepped up and said i'll i'll buy he bought a handful of stuff and just said i'll take care of it and get it shipped out um this is a gentleman that i'm just i was really impressed and so he messaged us he he gave that's the message it's been two or three weeks ago that i mean it's been longer than that but he's just like i've got a package for you guys i'm shipping to you and give me your addresses so i gave him scott's address and i gave him mine and it's funny because like the box shows up my wife's like you got a package i don't know what the heck it is and so i open it and i don't even realize what the heck it is it's like these 3d printed cones with like rubber on them and i get looking at them and i realize oh these they're called pin steps and you get two each they go under the backside of your legs is essentially a quick instead of having to like adjust and and all the stuff trying to figure out they've actually he's already built in the pitch degree of how much higher you're you're taking the game and with the rubber you're not going to be worrying about sliding the game everywhere i been really impressed with this product um these were the used at pinberg so that was really cool for him to send us the Pinberg pin steps But everyone that using these for tournaments are loving them And I like to just goof around sometimes and be like, I wonder how my game would play at this pitch. And seriously, I put my knee under the back part of the machine, I lift it up, I slide these under, and you've got a whole different playing game in 30 seconds flat. so i've really enjoyed it have you have you taken the opportunity to mess with these at all scott yeah these are great because um you're not gonna get a cough i asked a great long time yeah i was gonna cough when you were talking when i muted these are great if you're if you've ever hosted a party over at your house like a tournament it is a pain to adjust all your machine unless you have them on brutal mode or hard mode all the time i have kids i have family i'm this is a family arcade that i have in my basement this is not yeah this is not a tournament friendly setting however i can always make it tournament friendly really quick by just throwing those those things on and it takes 10 seconds and so it is a great option to say hey i just want something that can do it and you could even mess with people and put the steps on the front and make it a little more shallow and see what happens but um it's it is just a great quick and dirty way of uh getting your games to a different level for the you know the competition or if you just want to make it hard for yourself and see how it is without having to get back there and jack them up and yeah re-level it great option well and i remember we did tournament your house once someone had asked if we could do it your house and they said i will i will do all the adjustments and you've got in your basement you got what 12 games I want to say you have 10 games. Yeah. And you didn't have any at the garage at that point. We only did it in the basement. How long? Cause they offered to, you know, tournament, tournament style them. And then they offered to untournament style them. That was Josh Craig, wasn't it? And yeah, they, they worked on it and really I, I just didn't have the time to deal with it, but that's such a huge deal. That's what I want. Way more time, more than 60 seconds. I'll put it that way. And it would take 60 seconds to throw these things in the back. but I remember they were there for hours beforehand. And then after that too, it seemed like they were there hours as well trying to get all. Yeah. So, so that that's definitely a great option to go and check those out. Yeah. So the other product too, that I saw, I sent this to you. I'm excited for this. I've got one on the way, a pin snake.
    51:30
    Did you watch the video on this? I looked, it looked kind of cool. I certainly sent some, some risque comments to carry but i thought it was hilarious it's great thing i love you know cleaning pinball machines are easy up until you get into those lanes especially on a world cup soccer oh so i am more than excited to try this product and and carrie hardy uh did a great video if you haven't watched it go to go give it a watch yeah and it's it's perfect especially those orbits and all that stuff that's just kind of a pain to get back there. It looks like it works really well, so check that out too. Definitely. Well, honestly, we kind of breezed through our list. Is there anything else you want to talk about, Scott, before we shut this down? You know, Kate, actually, this barely came to my mind today. Okay. And I actually haven't even got – so we always talk about dream pinball themes, right? Okay. he why has no one ever suggested a mickey mouse game i don't know but there was that there's that uh talk about willie that that guy made like as a homebrew okay but i'm talking like uh like a game like people so the when we went to disney world four years ago or something like that yeah and i think they're building this actually in disneyland right now it was a it was a crazy uh um cartless thing it's kind of like rise of the resistance but it's with mickey and goofy and kind of this new animation style where they're they look a little bit like they're all high or something i'm not exactly sure how to describe it but it was it was a great it was a great theme and a great ride and i'm wondering why like we all talk about disney stuff you know so there's a pirates ride and you can do all that kind of stuff. But what about just basically a Disneyland or Disney ride, Mickey Mouse, Donald the Goofy, all that kind of stuff? Why have they not actively pursued something like that? That's what someone should do. If you're looking to start up a company – Don't. One, just don't because apparently starting up pinball companies are terrible. But here's the thing. So if you did a Tugboat Willie because it's now public domain because it's been out for 95 years or whatever it is. Steamboat Willie. Steamboat Willie, sorry. I mean, you had to be super careful. You could only use the material. Only do that one, yeah. From that. Well, and I think anything that's released that year. It's 100 years ago. So there was an airplane one that he was in, and I think the Steamboat Willie. Okay, but why not just get the real stuff? True. Have one of the major manufacturers go ahead and get that. Because we all talk about a Mario game or a Zelda game. like okay i'm not saying that that would make my collection but there's certainly a ton of people out there who are really connected to the disney brand so why isn't there a mickey mouse pinball machine well and it makes you wonder too because obviously we've done cartoon pinball machines right like if x-men 97 really is coming that's straight that's a product it's a disney product kid cartoon yeah i mean obviously it's more advanced because it's dealt with some more adult themes or like not like adult themes but you know i'm saying like right things that young adult themes right yeah yeah it's like teen teen young adult yeah but like spider-man like the vault was all comic book style and like avengers infinity quest you don't say i'm like so what what justifies a cartoon be able to get its own pinball machine where it's it jumps that hurdle of we've went from childish to nostalgic people want i think mickey mouse is definitely down that avenue but mickey mouse would cover all genres like you know another cartoon who work with the batman series yeah the animated batman series yeah the animated batman series that was really well done yes very well done i'm just trying to think like well and the rumor from american pinball the he-man yeah well cuphead but he-man and the masters of the universe he-man's been like started and dropped so many times yeah okay here's the funny thing about the he-man did you watch uh the kevin smith he-man thing on netflix i did not like revelations the guy from jay and cyan bob he's Bob yeah that guy uh so he did his own um his own masters of the universe sequel thing and it was it was interesting and I watched him like yeah this reminds me of my childhood I probably would have been about 10 to 12 in that age group and I thought that this is you know this is kind of cool it's true to form but afterwards it completely like had no lasting nostalgia for me star wars has lasting nostalgia for me but he-man gi joe you know i i would even argue thundercats you know there's no there's nothing that's lasting for some reason turtles still has that lasting nostalgia which is why it's still popular it's because it teamed up with pizza yeah yeah maybe and it's funny too because like turtles is like a parody of daredevil mixed with Oh, yeah. X-Men, Mixer, Teen Titans. And the funny part is it's went bigger than probably all three of those combined. Oh, maybe not X-Men, but definitely Daredevil and Teen Titans.
    57:07
    Yeah, Teen Titans is not an issue, yeah. But it's funny because it's had multiple parodies and stuff of Ninja Turtles. But back to what we were saying, like, what justifies – like, Hello Kitty is one of the top franchises of all time. It's made billions of dollars, right? but i don't think we'll ever see a hello like i could be wrong i just don't think we'll ever see a hello kitty i would be shocked i would be shocked you know you could argue like k-pop too i i believe they're k-pop right the the boy band from south korea like they make so much money that their income is factored into the gdp of south korea oh really it is nice and there's like a big issue because like there's mandatory um service and in south korea like military service and you have to do it by the time you're 30 and this is a few years ago but and so maybe this is way this is they've already resolved this but the oldest guy in k-pop was 29 and so they were like what are they gonna do because they're you know so i who knows i i'm not a k-pop guy so i i don't i don't know the whole he might just be blowing smoke up your butt right now no no i No, everything I said is true. I just don't know. I'm not up to date in the K-pop stuff. Oh. So, yeah, you're right. There are a lot of themes that I don't think readily translate to pinball. Yeah.
    58:34
    Yeah. I still think Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, man. My son went school clothes shopping, and they're still selling Scott Pilgrim vs. the World t-shirts and stuff like that. It's just one of those things. It's like Beetlejuice, though. Like, Beetlejuice is nostalgic. Like, I'm surprised people have skipped over it. Yeah. Beetlejuice I don't get I've seen it a few times It's okay And that's the thing though I just don't get why Some themes feel like They're absolute home runs For pinball and they don't get made And some themes are like Why was that made That doesn't make any sense But hey I don't do research and development for these companies Journey still should be made I don't know why it hasn't been made at this point Journey is a home run slam dunk. It's probably because the bandmates are a mess. They're fighting again, which is hilarious. But the music would translate really well. They had a video game. Seriously, that's probably what it comes down to. It's like Jody Dinkberg goes in from Stern with licensing, and he's like, we're ready to do Journey. And they're like, the bandmates are fighting again. They're not agreeing on anything right now. Yeah, but no one cares. No one cares. Yeah, no one cares. People need to make money. Sell them the license. Seriously. The ACDC drummer got back in the band After terrible allegations Of domestic violence Yeah And there's bands like Lost Prophets That have been scrubbed pretty much from the internet Except for like YouTube because their main singer was convicted Of stuff And then like I feel bad for the bandmates because it's like Yeah It's like well your livelihood There were some games that some people just sold Because they didn't want a certain designer associated with it.
    60:22
    So I get it. That's another rabbit hole I'm not going to go down. Yes, exactly. Speaking of rabbit holes, you've already mentioned it once or twice. I want to thank Doug Puerta for he bought our hockey jersey. He's excited to be sure. He bought it before we got it. I know, dude. So if you've been paying attention, you can get I need to get socks made, but you can have a hat, a shirt, pants because we've got the joggers now shoes all you need socks and underwear that's what you need to do if you show up in full loser kid show me your underwear i don't want to see it and don't tell me you're not wearing underwear cheeks smiling with two thumbs up don't tell me you're not wearing underwear either i don't need to hear that oh but seriously though like scott will get you something i don't know pat on the back yeah wave yeah we have sold we've sold uh a few of those jerseys. It's pretty cool. So they are pretty awesome jerseys and really Utah's pretty excited about getting a hockey team. It's, it seems to be more of us for the hockey team than the jazz right now. Yeah. You know what? And honestly, we're, we're kind of mid October right now. I'm going to, I'm going to announce this right now on the spot. We have a new hat coming out. Uh, I know Scott's wearing the one that we just kind of made, uh, off the cuff a couple months ago that will be at expo, but I have an expo specific, it probably won't be specific but the first time you'll be able to get it it's expo time it is it's our classic loser kid we weren't able to get an all black in the mesh so it's the same model number but it's all black fabric and I'm doing gold I've already got the prototype I will post this online probably this week and we'll probably need to start getting some so we don't take pre-order money the way it is is that yeah just tell us just tell us you want yeah we'll get you on the list and then before i order i usually say hey this is what's going on and then uh but if if you want to lose your kid hat it's going to be that time of year where i take a massive order and then we either ship them out or if you're going to be an expo i can bring them with me um but uh i will i will post all the hats that are available and uh and i've already showed this black and gold to some people and it's good it looks amazing it looks good it looks really good so uh it's that time i i yeah we've got like probably have to put in the order by the end of september beginning pretty soon yeah yeah so yeah i guess it is time to start posting these on the internet um so yeah if you want any of our other gear uh silverball swag.com slash loser kid pinball or just loser kid um there's just anything else scott before i do our our outro no it's it's great we are we're looking forward to fall coming up and i really am excited for the new releases see how they're done the themes sounds like they're not going to be for me but i have been swayed on themes to be blunt i was not that interested in the pinball machine and you see it over my right shoulder so it's it does happen content creator of the episode I want to shout out Steve with the pinball room if you have not checked out his YouTube you need to especially if you're into homebrew you're looking to make your own game Steve goes step by step how to make a game for your own homebrew it's amazing he made his own Led Zeppelin and it's just it's amazing what we can do nowadays with homebrew but if you're interested in that go check it out just the pinball room search it on youtube and uh hit up steve he would be more than happy to talk to you about his project and if you are having issues with your project so give him a check uh if you want to get a hold of us we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com you can find us on facebook instagram x twitch all that jazz uh at loser kid pinball we're also on YouTube if you didn't know that. If you haven't subscribed, we'd appreciate it. Hit that subscribe button. Other than that, I think that does it for us, Scott. Will you give us our last words for the evening? Yep. If you want Medieval Madness, certainly get on that wish list because I'm sure they'll go fast.
    65:02
    you