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DPP TPF Final day! Interviews be here!!

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·58m 48s·analyzed·Mar 18, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

TPF final day coverage: Ninja Eclipse redesign success, topper market heating up, Barbecue sells out.

Summary

Don's Pinball Podcast covers the final day of Texas Pinball Festival 2024 with interviews from Chris Turner (Turner Pinball/Ninja Eclipse), Robin Raff (Electric Playground toppers), and David Fix (Barbecue Pinball). Major topics include Ninja Eclipse's cabinet redesign from slimline to full-size standard cabinet at $6,994 price point, the booming topper market with pricing concerns, and positive reception for Barbecue Pinball's actual game design rather than reskin perception.

Key Claims

  • Ninja Eclipse redesigned from slimline cabinet to full-size standard cabinet based on community feedback from Pinball Expo

    high confidence · Chris Turner directly discusses feedback from Expo showing most people wanted standard cabinet instead of slimline prototype

  • Ninja Eclipse pricing is $6,994 (not $9,600 from Expo prototype)

    high confidence · Chris Turner explicitly states '$69.94' with Don confirming '$6,994' and '$64.94' alternative pricing mentioned

  • Ninja Eclipse limited to 100 units as 'first edition' with numbered badges

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'We're limiting it to 100. Limit it to 100? Yeah, we're calling this our first edition. Everything will be badged and numbered'

  • Ninja Eclipse manufacturing planned to start around September (fall) once sufficient orders received

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'I expect it to be probably around fall, maybe September-ish'

  • Ninja Eclipse includes eight boss modes (up from four at Expo)

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'we went to Chicago with about four boss modes. We've got all eight implemented now'

  • Electric Playground releasing first officially licensed topper later this year with intergalactic theme

    high confidence · Robin Raff: 'we've got a new topper coming later this year' and 'officially licensed topper, which is going to be the first for us'

  • Godzilla Topper Conqueror upgrade shipping in August with four interactive screens

    high confidence · Robin Raff: 'So it's shipping in August' with details on four screens and interactive video content

  • Big Lebowski toppers sold out (100 units) at Electric Playground

    high confidence · Robin Raff: 'All 100 are sold out' regarding Big Lebowski toppers

  • Barbecue Pinball sold 2 of 3 display units on first day, most others also sold by final day

Notable Quotes

  • “we just tried to get off-the-shelf glass, and by doing that, it actually saved us money. Because if you're just a little bit off on the size of glass, you've got to order custom glass.”

    Chris Turner @ mid-Turner interview — Demonstrates practical engineering approach to standard parts sourcing for sustainability and cost savings

  • “When you're asking sub $7,000 for a game that's a lot more approachable, you're coming in right at kind of Stern Pro's level, you're well under the price of a premium”

    Chris Turner @ pricing discussion — Key market positioning statement for Ninja Eclipse relative to major manufacturers

  • “I think when you're ahead of the curve like there, you have to kind of sometimes wait for everybody else to catch up to where you're at.”

    Chris Turner @ slimline cabinet discussion — Reflects on iterative product development and community feedback integration

  • “The way we approach design on this machine, I mean, we really built the shots around the theme, right? It wasn't like we came up with a theme or came up with a play field and then said, oh, we'll put a theme on top of it.”

    Chris Turner @ design philosophy discussion — Articulates design-first philosophy integrating theme with mechanics (grappling hook/ninja wall jump sequences)

  • “When you're talking about a game for like $6,800 or something, and then the topper comes out and it's one-third of the cost of the game.”

    Don @ topper pricing discussion — Highlights market concern about topper pricing relative to base game cost

  • “I mean, you know, us pinball guys, we're all tinkers. And it's a big part of the hobby for some folks is adding things. You know, we love mods.”

    Robin Raff @ topper mod discussion — Explains cultural embrace of aftermarket modifications in pinball community

  • “All 100 are sold out.”

    Robin Raff @ Big Lebowski topper discussion — Indicates strong demand for premium toppers despite high pricing

Entities

Chris TurnerpersonTurner PinballcompanyNinja EclipsegameRobin RaffpersonElectric PlaygroundcompanyDavid FixpersonBarbecue PinballgameDonperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Turner Pinball and Electric Playground actively soliciting feedback and iterating designs based on community input; creating local test locations (What's Brewing arcade)

    high · Chris Turner discussing extensive Expo feedback loop leading to cabinet redesign; placement at San Antonio arcade for operator data collection

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Turner Pinball (Ninja Eclipse) building shots around theme rather than applying theme cosmetically; grappling hook/ninja wall jump sequences intentionally integrated

    high · Chris Turner: 'we really built the shots around the theme, right? It wasn't like we came up with a theme or came up with a play field and then said, oh, we'll put a theme on top of it'

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival 2024 final day coverage generating strong enthusiasm; described as successful show with high energy despite fewer new game announcements than prior year

    high · Robin Raff: 'last year we had, like, six brand-new games. This year I think we've had a few less, but the energy is, like, super high'

  • $

    market_signal: Topper market experiencing rapid growth with premium pricing ($2,000+); Electric Playground's Conqueror upgrade and multiple new toppers in pipeline indicate sustained demand

    high · Foo Fighters topper at $2,000; Big Lebowski toppers sold out 100 units; Electric Playground announcing licensed topper with multiple products in development

  • $

    market_signal: Topper pricing reaching third of base game cost ($6,800 game + $2,400 topper); Don explicitly flags unsustainability of pricing trend

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.176

0:00
what's up here this is don's pinball podcast coming to you from tpf we're ready to record that final episode of all of our uh final experiences that we've had as well as the interviews that are coming uh so get ready for this we'll play the interviews and then we'll be back in just a bit
0:30
Oh, Don's Pinball Podcast, continuing coverage of the Texas Pinball Festival of 2024, continues with my very good friend, close homie of the show, and pinball extraordinaire wizard creator, Chris Turner, from Turner Pinball. I'm talking about the guy that's bringing you Ninja Eclipse. I got him here. Chris, sir, come into the microphone. How you doing? What's up, Don? Oh, man. What's up? What's up is it's TPF finally. I've been waiting weeks for it. I've been going nonstop. I don't think I've slept in three days. And I ain't even tired. I'm hiding it well. Oh, man. You and me both.
1:16
We came here last night where you were setting up, and I got to see the very brand new edition of Ninja Eclipse. You've redid, like, the entire thing. It looks like a full-size machine like you would see anywhere else, man. Yes, sir. Yeah, we've gotten tons of positive feedback on it. So, you know, we went to Expo in the fall, and we brought that slimline cabinet, and we got a lot of feedback on it. There were a few people that liked it, but I think the majority said, hey, we like your game, but we want it in a standard cabinet. And we took that feedback, and we went back and engineered a new cabinet that would work with our glass mechanism that's really cool with the lights and all that. And I think we did the right thing because people seemed real happy with it. Yeah, man, for sure. So, like, I could see that, you know, you've really taken that constructive criticism that was coming to you. I was there at Expo, and that was my first time seeing NJ Clips with the slimline cabinet. And, you know, you explained your rationale behind everything, which made logical sense. But, you know, we are creatures of tradition when it comes to, like, you know, I have a lineup of games. And I want to be, you know, somewhat similar so that it looks, like, awesome on location. you know you had you got this new revolutionary approach where you actually created an app that you can download and put credits on the machine that way so you're like we don't need a coin door we've moved past that and i agree like like as a technology and a civilization i think we have moved past now the coin door however us being creatures of habit like we're still used to seeing that you know we still want a way to put quarters in the machine and dollars in the machine even though i think you know the next technological leap is you know using phone apps to pay for everything. It's kind of how we're doing it. Yeah, I totally understand. You know, I'm learning a lot from engaging with the community and going to these events. And I want to deliver a product that people love. And why wouldn't I listen to feedback from the community, right? And so we went with a product that we thought that folks were going to like. But it's a little bit of a challenge, right? If you're trying to do something new, you can't just come out and say, hey, everybody, I'm going to do this new thing. And what do you think of it right off the bat? It has to be a little secretive because you're working on a new thing. And so we did this thing that we thought was going to be great, and when we showed it to people, it wasn't what we had hoped it would be. And so we listened to the feedback and we took that, and we've come back to something that I think is really great. I think when you're ahead of the curve like there, you have to kind of sometimes wait for everybody else to catch up to where you're at. So what you have here on the floor, you've got two Ninja Eclipse games, full-size cabinet, full-size back box, with a back, with a bottom, with a coin door. You've kept that really great kind of like, I don't know, I call it like a cap or something. You know, instead of removing a lock bar and having glass slide out, you've got it all incorporated into one cohesive structure where you can lift the entire top of the pinball machine off, basically. The side armor and the lockdown bar and the back bar all come off with the glass, which is actual glass now. It's not that polycarbonate or acrylic that you were using before. And then, you know, the whole thing has got a really great finish on it, too. Like, I like how you've done, I don't know if you're CNC cutting the side panels or something, and you can see that. You've incorporated these almost, you know, these bright LED lights that run the machine, like we've seen from other, you know, third-party makers and things. But it's all incorporated into that cap piece, and there's no wire connections. It all uses, touches contacts, right? We've got a really unique system for all that. And then when we went to Expo, we presented that glass frame with the lights and everything, and people really loved that. The part that they said, hey, we're not so sure about is the polycarbonate. I thought that would be a good thing. It reduces weight. But people said, hey, we just prefer standard tempered tin ball glass. And so we went back, we reengineered it, and essentially what we've got now is that frame. We slimmed it up a little bit, which I think helped. It made the play field look bigger. We got the lights integrated in kind of a tighter fashion so they don't obscure the play field at all. And we just put standard size pinball glass on it. So I talked to my engineer and I said, hey, look, if we're going to do this with pinball glass, we should do it with off-the-shelf standard pinball glass. Because I think that's the next thing people are going to ask, right? It's like, oh, you put tempered glass in it. Is it pinball glass size? Yeah, yeah. Am I going to be able to replace this if the worst happens? Which is totally valid, right? Yeah. So we just tried to get off-the-shelf glass, and by doing that, it actually saved us money. Because if you're just a little bit off on the size of glass, you've got to order custom glass. Custom glass is more expensive, but if you order pinball-sized glass, there's a bunch of people making pinball glass. So it's a good thing for both sides, right? I like that. I like that. Now, let's get to price-wise, because when you were out at Chicago's Pinball Expo with your radical new design of a cabinet, I think the price was around $9,600 or somewhere around there. and then you took some feedback from that and came back with a much more competitive price point now. Where are you at? Yeah, so we are at $69.94.

high confidence · Don: 'I saw two sold signs on your three barbecues' and David Fix: 'I think all of them are sold except one'

  • Barbecue Pinball is a full game design, not a reskin, despite sharing commonalities with Hot Wheels

    high confidence · David Fix: 'most of the feedback I'm getting back from people is like, this is not a reskin. This is an actual game'

  • “most of the feedback I'm getting back from people is like, this is not a reskin. This is an actual game.”

    David Fix @ Barbecue Pinball reception — Addresses key market concern about Barbecue being substantive design versus cosmetic reskin

    • Texas Pinball Festival 2024event
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent
    What's Brewingvenue
    Davey Stumblerperson
    Godzilla Topperproduct
    Big Lebowski Topperproduct
    Twilight Zone Topperproduct
    Foo Fighters Topperproduct
    Motorheadgame
    Hot Wheels Pinballgame
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany

    high · Don: 'When you're talking about a game for like $6,800...the topper comes out and it's one-third of the cost of the game' with concern about trajectory

  • ?

    announcement: Electric Playground announcing first officially licensed topper with intergalactic theme, shipping later in 2024

    high · Robin Raff explicit announcement: 'we've got a new topper coming later this year' and 'officially licensed topper, which is going to be the first for us'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Electric Playground pausing Godzilla and Twilight Zone topper production through August to focus on Big Lebowski backlog; Conqueror upgrade delayed to August

    high · Robin Raff: 'We've kind of used the first couple of months of this year to get caught up...We're going to be pausing that for a little bit...That's why that's as far out as August'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Ninja Eclipse positioned as sub-$7,000 full-featured alternative to Stern Pro tier; competitive pricing strategy validated by market demand

    high · Chris Turner positioning: 'you're coming in right at kind of Stern Pro's level, you're well under the price of a premium' with addressable LEDs, glass mechanism, and full cabinet

  • ?

    product_strategy: Godzilla Topper Conqueror upgrade with four interactive screens shipping August 2024; represents significant capability expansion

    high · Robin Raff describes four-screen interactive upgrade with original content and SD card customization capability, shipping August

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Barbecue Pinball overcoming 'reskin' perception through strong TPF reception; community sentiment shifting from skepticism to validation

    high · David Fix: 'most of the feedback I'm getting back from people is like, this is not a reskin. This is an actual game' despite sharing Hot Wheels commonalities

  • ?

    business_signal: Turner Pinball limiting Ninja Eclipse to 100 units as numbered 'first edition' to create scarcity and collector value following Spooky model

    high · Chris Turner: 'we're limiting it to 100...Everything will be badged and numbered' with explicit Spooky America's Most Honored comparison

    • 6:13
    Yeah. So when you have a pinball machine and you're wanting $15,000 for it, you open yourself up to a lot of really pointed criticisms and things. When you're asking sub $7,000 for a game that's a lot more approachable, you're coming in right at kind of Stern Pro's level, you're well under the price of a premium under the price of a top end spooky for a game that's fairly fully loaded with details you get the lights, you got the glass the whole frame comes up off of there you get a full size box and everything and even everything from the pinball legs are even the traditional ones now it doesn't look like she doesn't have long legs and high heels anymore she's not so high and tight with a mini skirt yeah that other cabinet was tall and then that was not all So this is not the same exact game that I played in Chicago's Expo. There's been some redesigns there. You've added kind of a virtual lock. You've adjusted some of the... You made changes to some of the flow on the wire forms. You say they feed the flippers a little bit better than the prior iteration? Yeah, so the sword ramp in particular, that shot is utilized in the rules in a lot of places. And so there's several sections in boss rules where you have to hit that shot repeatedly. And so what we did was we tipped that and made it kind of drop the ball. in front of the flipper as opposed to shooting the ball by the flipper. It was hard to hit the shot maybe two or three times in a row. I saw some really great players that would hit it maybe four times, but it was just the ball was going way too fast after that. And so with the new system of dropping the ball in front of the flipper like that, it's still a challenging shot. I can hit it like four or five times. I'm not very good. But if you get a good player, like we're working with a local pro in our area, he can hit that thing 15 times. So it's repeatable. repeatable shots. But you've got to be good. It's not just like a gimme. It's a tight shot that's challenging enough where pro-level players can hit it often. But it's pinball. There's randomness in it. They're not going to get it every time. So you just watched me play a game on this. Did I do okay? Did I hold my own? Or was it totally terrible? It was pretty rough, Don. Oh, man!
    8:24
    I've got to get some more time on it. That was my first game since Expo that I played on it. Yeah, you've got to get another game. Has there been any changes to the code or the modes at all since Chicago? Yeah, we've been working on the code a lot. I think we went to Chicago with about four boss modes. We've got all eight implemented now. Oh, okay. Because I was seeing things in there that I don't remember, and it could just be because I'm rubbish at pinball. So there is some more to discover so I can get back there and play it. Absolutely, yeah. So what feedback have you got so far? I know it's only been halfway through the first day here, but what are people saying? It has been overwhelmingly positive and it's so encouraging. I was really hoping we were doing all the right things with these changes we were making and I really got complete positive reinforcement. We've done the right thing. I think people said they love the cabinet changes, they still love the glass mech, they love that it's tempered glass. A lot of comments on the light system and how our lights, they animate with the rest of the lights. It's like they can be animated individually I should say. Are they addressable LEDs? Absolutely. Addressable LEDs are the new hotness I'm discovering. You know, I'm seeing a lot of products that are utilizing that just because, you know, you can arrange them into a matrix to have different effects. You know, instead of just flashing a bar, you can really get, like, waves of light and waves of motion in there. Yeah, some of the other systems that retrofit machines, you're going to get the same lighting effect that's on a particular light in your system, and you're just carrying that over to all the glass lights. this, we actually animate them independently. And so it kind of creates new effects. That's awesome. I want to go back and play it some more. So I've heard you've got some orders already. So if I want to walk in there and put down my deposit,
    10:06
    what kind of time frame are you looking to start getting these new cabs out to people? The plan is that we'll start manufacturing when we get enough orders to make it make sense. And by the time we procure parts to start producing these. I expect it to be probably around fall, maybe September-ish. Okay, and the last time I talked to you, I think the run size you were looking at was around 100 or 150? 100 units. We're limiting it to 100. Limit it to 100? Yeah, we're calling this our first edition. Everything will be badged and numbered, so it's kind of a limited edition like you'd get from another manufacturer. I think that's the perfect way to do it because there's got to be something, if you go in on it, we're investing in you as a person and you in a company, and to know that we will have something that will be one of a limited hundred, and we were there when we got it. When people look back at Spooky's first game, America's Most Honored, there's only so many of those made. There's not going to be any more of them. And that was their original license that kicked them off into juggernaut status now. So I think the way to make it is not to run faster than your feet can carry you here. So you come up with a solid game. You're open to criticism, and you implement it. That's so important, you know, because we want to love pinball. We want to love your game. We want to need it, you know. And we'll let you know, like, the things that we're looking for. And you take that and you put it in there, then, you know, it's kind of hard to not make the decision to go ahead and, you know, get this game out in a location, get it there. When I talked to you at Chicago, one thing I was mentioning, you know, it's not a bad idea to get one of these games on a location locally and then see how it does, how it plays, and how the public reacts to it. Because you can come back with data on earning, you know. How's this game earning versus Jaws or something? Because if you're an operator, that's what you're looking at.
    11:52
    Did you get one of these on location yet locally? So that's the plan. We've got a great arcade in San Antonio. It's called What's Brewing. And the folks that run that are awesome people. And so we're going to work with them to get a machine down there and let people play it. It's called What's Brewing? What's Brewing. It's a coffee shop. San Antonio is a heck of a town. You're down in that area, right? Yes. Love San Antonio. Now, is it near the Riverwalk?
    12:17
    I mean, like 15, 20 minutes. How awesome is the San Antonio Riverwalk? I will talk about that place any chance I get. I've got to go back there. Okay, that's an aside. What a great place to go to. The Rainforest Cafe is there. Tacos are everywhere. Grab a drink, take a walk, have fun. But yeah, anytime. I love San Antonio as a place and as a culture. The Riverwalk is pretty sweet. Plus, you know, you go to the convention center there, the Riverwalk's right there. Like this convention center, I was like walking around, I'm like, there's like a furniture store. Yeah. It's like, where are all the food places? There's an eight-lane highway and then a huge mall. This is Texas, and it's very much the north-central part of Texas.
    12:52
    Distances are huge. That parking lot around the mall across the street is as big as my entire town. Yeah, and the mall is in the way to get to anything else. It closes early, which we never get dinner before nine here. I still have no idea my way around this place. It's nuts. But I'm learning my way around Ninja Eclipse. Thank you. All right, so $69.95. You can go ahead and put down a deposit. $64. 94? Oh, I'm sorry.
    13:17
    That's an extra. That $1 is different. We're undercutting everyone. Man, we need to see some streams of gameplay, I think. I didn't bring a streaming rig with me because I had to fly down here, but I'd love to get this gameplay out there on YouTube so people can really see the changes that you made and get an idea of the modes and the code. For sure. Because the game still shoots well. I'm not bricking shots. I mean, if a shot is fair, I'm not bricking it. I mean, I still brick because I'm rubbish at pinball. But it's not like an unfair like that should have went there, rattled, and came out. The game flows well. I like the scoop-to-scoop shots. I like how that kicker from the left out lane throws it to a scoop, throws a cross field to another scoop, throws it up to the flipper, and then you continue up off that flipper and into that loopable, repeatable wire form. So it's fun. Thank you. A lot of people really like that, the scoop-to-scoop. The way we approach design on this machine, I mean, we really built the shots around the theme, right? It wasn't like we came up with a theme or came up with a play field and then said, oh, we'll put a theme on top of it. Like, we had the theme, and then we said, hey, we want to make this feel like a ninja game. So that whole sequence is like the grappling hook kickback, right? So you're like, you're falling, you use the grappling hook, and then you're doing like this ninja wall jump to get back up into battle. I love it. I love it. I've got to go back and play some more. What else did I want to ask you? How many balls in the game Oh we don care about that Six balls Six balls okay perfect perfect What else When the topper coming out You know a couple people have asked about the topper They're like, are you going to have a topper for this? I'm like, I don't know, man, maybe we should. I might make more off the topper than the machine. Have you looked at the trend lately? These toppers are crazy expensive. When you're talking about a game for like $6,800 or something, and then the topper comes out and it's one-third of the cost of the game. I'm telling you. And they're sold out. It's so crazy. I mean, you get out of the pinball business into the topper business, you know. Yeah, I'm constantly doing that. Now, please don't take this as carte blanche to go ahead and come out with a $2,400 topper, even though that's where we're going as a culture and a society. But, no, do you have, like, a mechanism in place? Like, are there bolt holes already routed to the top there? We've got plans for that. Oh, yes. Yep. Yes. It's all set up. Yes, I love it. Okay. All right, I'm going to go play some more ninja clips. You're going to hang out here all weekend? Yes, sir. And then someone puts their order in, and then you're going to say, okay, we're going to wait until we get a batch to order the parts because economy is a scale being what they are. You build these on your own home estate. You've got a shop. It sounds like it's 3,000 square feet you're putting these things together in. That's right. Yeah, it's not a big space, but it's enough for us to do what we need to do. We'll have to do them in batches and then ship. Ladies and gentlemen, can you tell this guy is from Texas? He said 3,000 square feet for an accessory building is not.
    15:57
    Hey, building pinball machines takes a lot of space. Well, yeah, absolutely. So you're not using space that you've leased somewhere. You've brought it home to your own property, so you own that. You have control over that, your own space. So it's just about finding the numbers that make sense to go into production, getting these games out in batches, and then building from there. Yeah, we're starting small and just trying to make smart decisions to move forward and grow. And a lot of people, they have referenced Wookiee as an example of folks that have done it right. Yeah. I think they're a great example, and I love what they've done. and I think they've become something really great. And, you know, it's a long journey to get there, and we're kind of taking baby steps and just trying to do the best we can. Ninja Eclipse is popping off. I'm going to go play it some more if that's cool. We'll shove some little kids out of the way so I can get some games on it.
    16:47
    All right, anything else you want the people to know, homie? I'm just so thankful for all the feedback we've got. I'm really happy with where we've come. I think the team has worked so hard. I'm proud of each and every one of them. we've got a great team of talented engineers and artists and developers and whoever hasn't played the game I hope you all will come by the booth and play it and we will be getting a lot of streaming out when we get back we've got that local pro we're going to stream with and I'm really excited for the future that's fantastic Art if you know a nicer guy in pinball I'm going to call you a bold faced liar because Chris Turner is the bee's knees man alright thanks everybody keep listening we're going to do some more interviews and everything's coming up. I'm going to go play some Ninja Eclipse. Later.
    17:31
    More interview time today with Don Smithball Podcast. 2024 TPF here with Robin Raff from the Electric Playground. Topper maker extraordinaire. Also in before the lock with Davey Stumbler. Hey, man, we're getting into the content scene too. So that's dropping on Mondays, every other Monday? It's every other Monday. So we did one this week and we got one coming up and then we've been doing some footage here at the event. So we're going to do some produced content as well. That's awesome. I got to run into Davey, too. He was here on site, maker of the Tokyo Godzilla mods and everything that lights up from Stumbler. So how was the show? How's it been going? It's been great, man. I mean, obviously always awesome to see people that are fans of our product and also play some new games, play some games with people. A ton of great feedback. We dropped a couple new things here at the show.
    18:18
    Some official, some kind of teaser. I looked at the people, yeah. There's a people. We did do a people. Yeah, so we've got a new topper coming later this year. If you check out our socials, you'll see a little hint of that. But it will be an officially licensed topper, which is going to be the first for us. I love it. It's very exciting. A little intergalactic theme going on, from what I can tell. There's some green involved. So, yeah, for the Electric Playground, just to recap, these are the folks you know from the amazing Godzilla topper, the Twilight Zone topper with the ball that comes and rolls around. You have the black and white version here on display. Yeah. Another game I don't have and I'm compelled to buy the topper for. So, yeah, so if you don't know, like, there's quite a few people that have done black and white kind of re-themes of Twilight Zone, which is amazing. It was a black and white show, obviously. Great American Games Gaming out of Chicago. We met them at Expo last year, and they are doing probably a series of black and white Twilight Zones. And they picked up quite a few of these black and whites from us, and we had some people asking about it. So we brought a few folks who picked it up. It's just a black and white version with some silver in there, very nostalgic kind of silver screen thing going on. I love it so much. I was going over there playing with it. So you got your Conquer upgrade ready to go for the Godzilla Topper? Yeah, yeah. So it's shipping in August, so this is still a bit of a preview, but we finally got it up and going. You know, that was part of the original idea for the Godzilla Topper was to have four screens with interactive content. So we've got it on display. You can also check that out on our socials. It's an upgrade for previous customers, or you can buy it with the whole kit and caboodle. It's got interactive video on there. It's going to come with some original stuff that we do, but there's going to be an SD card where you can add your own video as well. So for right now, we've got the center spinner. You hit that. Some Godzilla, Breeze the Heat Ray. Tons of cool stuff. It's four screens. I mean, what could be wrong with that? I mean, that was a great lighting package already. Like, seeing the topper in a dark environment, you can really see them glowing and everything. And then, you know, with the added four screens there, we'll see them popping up, you know, showing content during the gameplay. So it's awesome that we've got mods for toppers now, dude. It's mod-ception, and, like, I'm not even mad about it. Well, look, man, I mean, us pinball guys, we're all tinkers. And it's a big part of the hobby for some folks is adding things. You know, we love mods. We love kind of adding things to it. So we've gotten really good feedback so far. That's awesome, man. It's so fun sitting here having people stopping by. They're listening to the content I did the other day. I'm going to get this episode up just as a recap of the show. So what's in production now at Injection Studios? You've got the big Lebowski toppers that are sold right out. All 100 are sold out. You have a wall-mounted version that's non-interactive with the game that's unlimited available.
    21:09
    But are you still making Godzilla toppers? Can people still buy them? Yeah, so we kind of used the first couple of months of this year to get caught up on Twilight Zone and Godzilla. We've brought about 10 of each to the show. We're going to be pausing that for a little bit as we work through Big Lebowski. We've got 100 toppers and about 20 wall signs to do to start with. And then we'll circle back to Godzilla and working on the Conqueror upgrade. So that's why that's as far out as August. And then probably at Expo we'll be announcing our next topper more officially. So definitely a busy year for us so far. Yeah, man, the world of toppers, right? If you do a trend line of the average cost of what we're seeing, especially from Stern, we're projected to go even higher than where we're at. This awesome-looking Foo Fighters topper just dropped, but at the price of $2,000. Yeah, it is gorgeous. I mean, it's got a lot going on. The sculpt is really nice.
    22:02
    It's definitely a choice for people. It's like, do I want to take my food to the next level, literally? $2,000 is a lot. So our stuff isn't quite there yet, but people are paying for it, right? You know, I think there's definitely an open market for folks that are like sub-$2,000 but still want quality. Yeah. And I'm starting my own line of dollar general budget line toppers. But for what you guys do and the production capacities you have and the professionalism, what you can construct, I think there's definitely a viable option for that, and we're going to still see that topper market open up. It's not going to be the all or nothing, the $2,400 stern topper, or you get nothing. There's going to be some things in there. Yeah, I mean, it just depends on how complex it needs to be. I mean, we were talking about Jaws Toppers because I know you've got one out there. We've been thinking about one, obviously. We'd love to come in at a definitely well sub-$2,000 price point, but it'll all kind of depend on how much interactivity and stuff. So it definitely comes into the process when we're thinking about it. And to work as a check on the market, too, so it's just not unbridled, first-party accessories only. I love that, too. Totally, yeah. Yeah. So just you being there is helping out everybody, regardless if they're a topper bro or not. I'll take that. Yes, all right. All right, man. How was the show? Anything else you want to cover here? No, man. I mean, you know, last year we had, like, six brand-new games. This year I think we've had a few less, but the energy is, like, super high. I just love to see new people coming into the space. The homebrew section is off the hook. There's some amazing stuff there.
    23:33
    Motorhead is awesome. Did you get a chance to play that one? Motorhead was amazing. It is intense. I would have difficulty if that was in production, resisting a freaking motorhead. Seriously. Oh, dude. With a fist shot? It's a lot of fun, and it's kind of got a little bit of tongue-in-cheek action going on. It calls you out if you don't do well. So I really enjoyed it. That's exactly what I would expect from that game, too. And it brings it, man. And what a charming gentleman from New Zealand that put that together. Absolutely. That was definitely a show highlight. Getting to play, not only getting to play the games, but now other people get to play them, too. I was pretty early on with Spooky's two new ones. And I'm like, these games are incredible, but nobody else had played them yet. So now they have, so I can't wait to hear. Some of our feedback has been great from everybody that I've talked to that has played them. Yeah, it's been a great show. So, man, I love where pinball's heading. And again, we're going to get a couple more new game drops, too, so keep making toppers. Absolutely, absolutely. You're going to see more from us. Like I said, Expo's coming up. We've got a really big one that is a game that a lot of you probably have, so keep an eye out on that. All right. Great, great, man. Thanks so much. All right. Thank you, Don. More to come. Happy to talk to you.
    24:37
    Don's Football Podcast. Interviews continue with a man that needs a brief introduction. It's David Fix. End of introduction. You all know who he is. We just got barbecue dropped on us. Like a George Foreman grill from the sky, it's come down and landed. It's making its impact on the pinball world. We're going to talk about that. And his overall experience in Texas. How are you doing, sir? I'm doing pretty good. Voice is just about gone, but everything else is going good. It is so loud here. I think what's been happening is I've been screaming for three days.
    25:07
    Pretty close. And you don't realize it, man. Awesome. So, yeah, I got here. I saw that you had three barbecues on the floor in addition to the rest of your games. Plus, there's like three other barbecues scattered around. Correct. And then within the first day, I saw two sold signs on your three barbecues. So they're flying off the show floor. Yes. And the other ones, I think all of them are sold except one. And there's somebody already sniffing around that one. That's awesome. Now, so this is probably the first time you've been able to get a lot of just like general public reaction to the game. How's the feedback been? Oh, the feedback's been absolutely wonderful. I find it interesting that most of the feedback I'm getting back from people is like, this is not a reskin. This is an actual game. Yeah. This is the design. I think that was the hard thing to tell from pictures and videos, you know, is exactly what is the layout. Because, you know, it brings back, it seems like the same kind of game that's in the scope. of how Hot Wheels is. As far as, you know, there's some ramps there, but you don't have upper play fields. You don't have mechanisms jumping up and out of the play field itself. You know, so there was a concern like, is this a reskin? But no, it does play differently, you know, even though it shares a lot of the same commonalities, the pit stand-up targets that are there. But this one has innovations. It has bash locks. Yes. The bash locks, sir. The bash locks. I've been trying to hype that up because that's hard to tell how that affects the gameplay from just watching photos or videos. You really have to play it. Get the balls in there, smash it, and be like, okay, now I get what we're doing here. Absolutely. Well, think about this. We've had locks, and we've always had locks stealing, and we've had other ways that when you lock a ball, the ball just sits there. And most of the time, at one point with multi-ball, you had it where the ball went up into a lock and held, and you had to do something to do that. here the locks are sitting right out in the open but we're able to make it so you just hit the lock or hit the ball that's in it it becomes a new bash toy so that's where bash locks came and it's kind of funny that it's 2024 and nobody's ever done this before yeah when i was playing the first thing i thought of was like fathom does something like this where you put the balls into the mermaid cave and then up on the top into the saucers where they're staged for a later multi-ball but after they're in the saucers like that they're done you know they're not interactive anymore Correct. But this, you know, once you put them in there, it's like, okay, now I can go back and bash that, and I can get, you know, some sound and some feedback. And if you have multiplayers, they can also bash. Their bash will register their ball as locking. Correct. And then if you go for that back saucer in the back right, you have one lock to get a two-ball multi-ball, but if you stage three of them, you get the three-ball. Absolutely. And so, like, it's kind of like some old-school gameplay with the new school, you know, flipper design and strength and everything, so that was fun. Well, and then the other thing is it's designed that you could have one ball in the bash lock and put it up at the top and you have a two-ball ball team. Or you can go and have three balls, right? Right. So it can be either way on that bash lock. So it takes it to a new level. And there's a mode in there which is called fill-up station. Uh-huh. And you're scoring tons and tons of points every time you hit the ball. So there's a lot more that we're really integrating with that. And on the Limited, just to talk about the Limited for a second, we have it every time you hit the bash lock. Of course, you have the sound, which you can't hear here. You have the fireworks show on the LEDs on the play field, but it's also interfaced with the shaker motor. So it gives the player the full feedback. Oh, hey, I hit that. You know you hit it. And it's like, whoa, this is cool. Yeah, so I saw a production copy of When I Was the Factor, the limited edition, and it's going to come with better glass, shaker motor, and everything in it. I'm only making 100 of those, but the shaker motor will be available to upgrade to the main game. So you can set up that functionality. I've got to have that force feedback. It's not even a game if it's not in there. So I love that that's an option. And the thing is, yes, there are options that you're going to be able to upgrade on some of the stuff, like the Shaker the Knocker the Magic Glass that always an upgrade that you can upgrade to your game later But the idea was to bring a game to the market at MSRP that full I didn't rip any toys out of the game. It's just there and ready to play. All right, perfect. And so I love what you did with the launch, too, and I wish other people would do this. You had the game ready to go. It's in production. I've seen the cabinets myself. But it was also at the time of launch, it was at 10 locations in the U.S. and then here we are just a week or so later at one of the biggest pinball festivals and it's here to play and a game like this, I think a lot of the innovation that's in it, you really have to play it to get that across so I think that's perfect this isn't a game that's going to remain out there for six months until somebody can finally get a hold of it the other thing is I didn't want to tease it I wanted it to be not like a surprise I wanted to have it out there so the public can play it We did this for Legends of Valhalla. We had it in locations. We had it on day one, which the public just literally ate it up. And we're going to continue to do that. All right. So questions people want to know, if they reach out to their distributor and they put the deposit down, when can we expect somebody to get it if they were to order today? So the limiteds are on the production line the first. So many are coming off this week. the plan is to have all 100 of the limited done probably by the first week of April. Okay. If there's a snag, it might be by the second week, but for the most part, all those will be out. There's also all the games that we're making for the shows. Those are coming through. And the coin-op version, or if you're buying a classic, those are shipping probably at the same time. I mean, we have the two game lines pumping these out. So the idea of this is if anything, you're not going to be waiting more than maybe two to three weeks. I've been to the factory floor, and I can't say that you're wanting for any space or equipment or prep. You've got all the parts there ready to go. I've seen them. And you saw all the cabinets just lined up there waiting for the games. And that was, what, a week and a half ago, and all those cabinets have already been boxed and gone. You know, in the days where you can order a game and it may be a year or so until you can receive it, it's just refreshing to see, like, here's a game that's ready to go. You can get it today. You can get it soon and then put it on your location and do what you want with it. So are we going to see another release from AP this year? That's the question you probably don't want to... Stay tuned. Not ready to comment. Fantastic. I can't wait to hear more. So how'd the show go for you guys? Oh, the show was excellent. Listen, we had a lot of people come up to the thing. There were some even impromptu tournaments. People were just playing it, loving it. They just felt at home. It's the essence of pinball. They walked up to it, they understood it, they understood the rules pretty quickly, they understood the remotes, and a lot of the players really, really loved the little player feedback screen that's right there in the middle of the playfield for them. So that screen was designed just for the players to explain to them rule sets and so forth. So it does have some of the assets from the main screen, but for the most part, it's the informational screen for the player to understand what's going on. It's just stripped down, so when I'm looking down at what I'm playing at, I kind of got an idea of what I have left, what I have left to shoot. Right. Now, are you adding to your jackpot? Okay, I saw that, too. Are you adding the jackpot value? Is it growing? Are you grilling the meat too long? Yeah. Or are you burning it? I always burn the meat, and I get the I Tried Award.
    33:00
    Which I love. I've gotten the I-Try Award. There are so many awards, right, all the way up to the Diamond Trophy. Okay. So you got, you know, I-Try, the tin, the copper, the silver, the gold, and the diamond. And if you get your multipliers going right with the boss, you're going to see those things jump up really high. Perfect. How's the code on these machines as far as, you know, can you give a number? Is it like 60% of what you expect to be in the final version? Are we like 80% code? It's about 75, 70, 75. Okay. As of this show, it was about 65 when we did the release, which then we immediately got the next release out. We're going to have another release probably in a week. So the code team is working hard on trying to get this stuff out. And, you know, they have no problem with the code. They basically told me, we're going to just keep, you know, there's a little bug fix or something. We got that. Understand that we also have this game on day one release sitting with SS Billiards, and that's our good friend Lloyd, who's our service tech. So he's already looking at it. He's giving us feedback if there's a problem, and the customers who have problems, calling Lloyd, come straight to us. We know what's going on. We're making small adjustments. Hey, it's been, you know, a launch of a game is always, you know, crucial, right? And there's always little hiccups. It's just managing those hiccups. Yeah, yeah. And so you put a game out here on the floor where it's going to get a couple thousand plays in a weekend, potentially. And there's always new in-box issues, screws that need to be tightened and things. But I haven't seen any games down the whole time. No. So there you go. So especially if you're an operator, one thing I hear back from games like Hot Wheels is that the game stays up. The game doesn't go down. Correct. It's reliable for locations. And having dipped a toe into location operations before, I can appreciate that. one of the other things that we did here at the show, which we kind of made an announcement, but we'll tell you right here, is that we had the beta, new beta version of Galactic Tank Force. Okay. So a bunch of bug fixes on that. We wanted to put it in a public place. We have it on test at some of our beta locations. So it really worked very well all weekend. All the players loved it. They were like, wow, this game plays amazing. We didn't have any problems with it. We pulled all the reports. So it looks like we'll probably be releasing that code in the next probably a couple days. Okay, perfect. I just remembered another question I give to a lot of people since I've been able to play it. So, you know, first off, like how did Barbecue come to be? I know this was Barry's design as a layout. Was Barry into Barbecue? Was Barbecue an idea that you were going for, or did this evolve over time? It was kind of a – it evolved a little bit. And Barry is into barbecue. Okay. So Barry loved barbecue.
    35:57
    It's funny because the game started out as basically car hop. He wanted girls on roller skates and delivering burgers and fries and, you know, sort of stuff like that. Okay. We kind of explained to him that there was already a car hop game and it basically fell those rules. And he was like, he didn't know. It was from Gottlieb. I think 85 or 86. All right. I think it was, you know, street level. I can't remember if that's right. Maybe not. Anyway, we kind of shared it with him, and then we kind of kicked it around, and we said, hey, what about barbecue? What about festivals, barbecue festivals? What about different things that go on? And then Perry came back to us and goes, hey, we got at least five or six barbecue restaurants within a mile of my house. I got more barbecue restaurants here than I do Burger Kings or McDonald's. So he was like, this makes sense. And then we talked about it as a team, and Barry and Steve ran with it. From that point on, for the next, let's see, that would have been, we had that conversation in September. So all of October, all of November, all of December, all of January, Steve and Barry worked on the thought of barbecue with a bike night, where people take the bikes out to the barbecue place, or car night, drive the classic cars. So that's where all that kind of brought it together, and this whole festival came together very quickly.
    37:25
    There's a lot of things going on. I just thought of an amazing marketing idea. Okay, you remember back from the movie Tommy Boy, right? David Spade and them had to get in the car and do Callahan Auto Parts across the U.S. What if we took a couple of barbecues on a trip to barbecue hotspots across the U.S. and take it straight to the barbecue people, sir? We can. Oh, man. We've already started reaching out. In fact, a bunch of our locations that got it on day one are barbecue restaurants. Don and Dave's Cross Country Barbecue Odyssey. Oh, there you go. Oh, man, this is coming together. It's fighting itself. D&D. D&D across America with BBQ. Fixing the dog. We're going. There we go, guys. You know, it's kind of fun. We're just having fun. We're all there. And we're getting a lot of feedback from even barbecue places that are excited about this. We started a marketing campaign. Our local distributor down here in Texas, we had two of them at the show. One of them immediately started bringing people in the show from barbecue places and showing them the game. And they were like, this is good. And here's the other thing that was absolutely kicker I love. There were people who had went out, had barbecue, went to Hard A and different barbecue restaurants. and they came back, they're playing the game and they were like, I don't know why but I want more barbecue I'm hungry again so they're wetting their appetite, they love the video they love it we had a lot of people from all over the world we had a couple guys from England people I had not met, they were super excited for barbecue they played it, they're already talking to the distributor about that we also had quite a few from Canada Tommy from Nitro was down here, and he brought a whole crew of guys from Calgary all the way across the great north up there. And they're all talking to Tommy now for a barbecue. They're looking at this thing as a very nice game that is easy approaching, and they just love the whole aspects of the game. Yeah, that's fun. I can't wait to get some more time on it. So there is more to the story than what happens when rubber meets the road versus what you just read in online forums. Like, go and play it, inform some opinions. And then, you know, if games are being sold and they're out in homes, I mean, in barbecue places, then there you go. There's what's actually happening at the ground level. Absolutely. Well, think about it. A year from now, who knows? There might be, like, everybody be walking into barbecue places and seeing pinball in a barbecue place again, where we haven't seen locations like we have in a long, long, long time. How could that not be great for the industry as a whole? Absolutely. David, awesome. Thanks for coming by, buddy. You're welcome, Don. Thanks for coming. And, you know, you're always welcome over to the factory. So stay tuned, folks. All right. If Don comes on a special time, you never know. He might have been somewhere and might know some secrets he might be sharing. Oh, yes. All right. Thank you, sir. Absolutely the circus was in town man This was TPF 2024 What's going on everybody We were here for the recap with everything I got my booth babes In the booth in effect What's going on we got Danny and Nicole How you doing Thanks for manning the booth the whole time You all are legends for doing that. I was running around nuts. These guys are hawking t-shirts and stuff. These guys are straight out of Virginia. Virginia Beach, to be specific. This is your first time at Texas Pinball Festival.
    41:06
    What did you guys think? Awesome. Non-stop pinball for 16 hours a day. Didn't anticipate that, but it was non-stop. All right, man. Highlights of the show, dude. What do you think? Highlights of the show. I think the game is so spooky. Spooky guys are awesome. Love their games. Spooky for Booth. I would go down. Did you see the lines at the spooky booth? All day. All day? All day. All day, every day. Yeah. Sun up to sun down. Yes. Like four or five degrees. You couldn't even walk around the area there because people would... It was packed. Dude, it was nuts. I called it. Did I not call it? Yeah. Yeah, dude. The layout that they got, the flow is real for those games. Looney Tunes was almost sold out before the show even started. Yep. Yeah, what did you think of TCM? TCM's awesome. So, not a huge horror theme. Yeah. But I think the rules Luke was saying were a little more long, so pretty cool. Yeah. All right. Which one's better? Looting Tunes. I think I'd agree. Now, for me personally, I don't have a favorite. I love all my children. And the point of that is if somebody offered me money, like you've got to get rid of one, honestly, I don't know which one I'd get rid of because I love them both so much. But for sure, the broader appeal has to be for Looting Tunes. And I think when it comes to Game of the Year contention, that's probably where I would go. What did you guys think of just this experience, though? very overwhelming but fun it's a lot of it's a lot of pinball in one spot yeah yeah it's non-stop you feel like you have plenty of time and before you know it's uh time to go so i think the secret hack was getting a booth oh yeah thanks for the booth yeah i mean we sold a couple t-shirts and things we had some fun but having a spot to just hang out on the show floor otherwise you know you're walking from your hotel down the street or whatever so i'm thinking of expanding this idea even more, charging a VIP membership for the weekend, and then you could have a club lounge. Absolutely. I think that would make more money than hocking t-shirts. Probably. Get a free t-shirt with a ticket.
    42:56
    So how do you think the golden ticket promotion went off? It was awesome. Everybody loved that. I thought it was a great idea. Yeah, everybody from four-year-olds to 84-year-olds. It was awesome. We were making everybody happy. That was nuts. Yeah, so I 3D printed some gold ticket cards, and I stuck them on the bottoms of machines, on the backs of back boxes, hit them in merchandise areas. Spooky put one in their claw machine so you could actually play to win. It was 25 cents a play, and somebody got it. They got themselves a T-shirt. So I heard the person that actually won that card had spent about $3.25 trying to get it.
    43:29
    But people loved them, like from Grandma to that cute little 4-year-old girl that was over here. Oh, yeah, and the lit-up shoes, don't forget. Oh, man, her shoes lit up. They were so awesome. So awesome, so awesome. Would you guys do this again? Absolutely. Yeah, all right. We get to meet people in the flesh from Chris Turner, Turner Pinball. Probably had the surprise of the show. Ninja Eclipse was in a far inferior setup, I think, at Expo. And it was like higher price. It looked weird. People just were like, what's going on? He took that criticism back, redesigned it. Now like the cabinet is standard standard legs standard size coin door in it Play filled glass he kept that pop on it and the game is fun Yeah A couple of changes to the play What did you think, Ms. Nicole? Well, I didn't see it before, so I don't know. That's true. But I liked it this time. I love the pop-top glass. I think it's great. You were kicking our butts, too, on the score. I kicked your butt in every game you played. That is not even an exaggeration. I don't know what was going on. even like when it came to barbecue I was playing for like a two minute ball I was hitting everything I got a multi ball and I get like 300,000 points and she steps up there I don't know what happened in 90 seconds but you're sitting at like 50 million and I don't know if that's just I don't understand the code or I get distracted by grilling meat but girl I just choke under pressure maybe that's what it is I hate when I think I'm having a great ball and then I look up and I'm like, I didn't even break a million and then she's over here like, oh, what? I got the multiplier, no big deal. So totally with the Turner, so I hadn't seen it before either like you had said, but first thing I want to mention, Chris, he was amazingly humble. Genuine human. Super cool guy. He was awesome to answer any questions and things like that and I think it's awesome he did take the feedback from the community and he's trying. He's rolling with it. He's taking that feedback and criticism and I think he's on the right track. It looked good. Yeah, and it looks like, I mean, he's got some property. He owns the building that he's production, and he calls it a garage. But the thing is, it's almost as big as my house. So he's got a CNC machine. So if he can bring a lot of those costs in-house, I think he can bring his product to market at that lower price. And then you've got to sell 100 of your first game. So you learn how to make games, and then you secure that license. And you're like, look, we were successful with this, and here's what we got. And the feedback I've been hearing from other people seeing their posts is that Ninja Eclipse was doing pretty well. They liked the gameplay, too. Absolutely. And the lines for that, all weekend there was a line. Three, four, five deep all weekend. Loved it. Yeah, for the two games that were here. All right. So more to come from them for sure. Barbecue is out. Man, the reactions have been straight mixed. Yeah. It's a game. It is. It's a game. It's fun. It's got bash locks. It's got meat on the screen. If that speaks to you, this is your game.
    46:20
    Absolutely. So what's really going to speak is what units end up moving, who ends up getting this game, how it does on location. Because obviously the first reaction from the Pinside crew is pretty harsh. Oh, of course. And I talked to David Fix today, and even the other day, about a lot of the first reactions, especially how raked this game has gotten over the coals from the podcasts, have been from podcasts that haven't had a chance to play it yet. But, you know, so they're nitpicking details that didn't even occur to me looking at it, like the fact that the macaroni and cheese on the plastic on the side, which is about, you know, an inch and a half in total diameter, it's a real picture of macaroni and cheese, and it's on a plate that's hand-drawn or whatever. And they're like, where's the art direction? And I'm like, man, you are nitpicking photos on Pinside. I didn't even notice. I had to go and look today to see what the heck they were talking about, you know. So it's fair to criticize the game, but for everybody else, I would say, you know, take a chance to play it. first and come up with your idea. If you don't like it then, it's no harm, no foul. Absolutely.
    47:21
    The games were up all weekend. I didn't see any of them down. I didn't see glass lifted. So there it is. And David Fix said stay tuned if we're going to see another game from them this year. Oh, wow. So that's coming. The Barrel's a fun tea room. That had to be a highlight. Nice. How cool is that? Very cool. Playing the Whitewood and playing that game for the first time. It's a lot of games. First time playing Labyrinth. What do you think? Oh, it was great. Loved it. Fun. Silly. Yeah. So these guys haven't even seen the movie yet. No. I think if you were to go ahead and watch that, I think it's three bucks on YouTube, and then you'll be like, oh, okay, I see. And then when you play the game again, you're like, all right, yeah, I see where they got these modes. Because otherwise the cleaners, the bog of eternal stench, it's not going to make any sense. It barely makes sense in the movie. It's just because it's very much of that era. But they absolutely captured that movie, put it in there. And then if you've ordered, pre-ordered, or seriously considering purchasing one, And they would take you over to the VIP room where it was quiet. You could actually hear what's going on. There's new beta code on the topper. So what did you think of the topper? It was cool. Good. Very good. It was cool how the goblins were talking to you and everything. Yeah. And then they had snacks. There was tea cakes. They had zebra cakes in there. Pick and mix. It was nuts. I want to go back and live in that fantasy realm. Brian Savage was dressed up, bulging all as Jareth from the show. Which, again, if you haven't seen the movie, that's got to be completely absurd and bizarre. And even I think once you've seen it, it probably still is. But Gems of the Earth, Christopher Franchi won a Social Butterfly. Oh, dude. Great guy. Did you talk to that guy much? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We spent some time with him over the weekend and just down to Earth and shared our love for animals. As everybody knows, he's hardcore into animals and Barlow and shelters and all that. He had Barlow-branded dog treats. Yeah, we got some. We're excited to take them home to our dogs. So your dog or small horse, you've got the great day. Yeah, he's a small horse. Yeah, he'll crush those. But Chris is looking forward to the pictures.
    49:14
    And so he was doing limited edition prints. You got one of 50. Yeah, it's nice. It's all his work. Signed. Super nice card stock signed. Yeah, yeah. Awesome, awesome. Oh, man, he gave me a sack tap. It was awesome.
    49:26
    I can't even, like, run down all the great interactions that we had here. Talk about that real quick. Make sure you let your fans know that you did go on a run for one of the days this weekend. Super proud of you for that. I did run, yeah. Yes, awesome. At least 3,000 kilometers. Probably about 3K, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the rain. Well, in the rain. Yeah. In the rain, the 150 feet across the street will count as probably a metric. Yeah, it was awesome. In skate shoes, even better. Man, what else did we do? Highlights. Wiener schnitzel twice we hit it. Oh, yeah. We got some pot belly subs. We've been eating good here. Yeah. Got to talk about Saw real quick, too. Yeah, that freaking game. That could have stole the show. Amazing. I think it did. They took Best Homebrew? Best Homebrew, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was amazing. the anticipation of the game. It makes you nervous playing it in a good way. You're almost scared to hit the ball. I can't even look at a Whirlwind the same anymore. Oh, yeah. If only that could be in production. Oh, yeah. That would be great. Forget Suey and the Grannies, that $3,000 makeover kit for a Whirlwind. I want the Saw makeover kit. Oh, absolutely. That game was getting a lot of attention from manufacturers of games, particularly our friends over there, even at Spooky. We're taking a strong eye on it. Yeah. And I think, you know, unless there's some issue with the license getting hard to get, I think anybody would be happy to put that into production. I think so. Yeah, yeah. And that topper, I know you already talked about that briefly, but wow. So that topper looked like a one-to-one screen recreation of the reverse bear trap that goes around your head and then rips the top of your head off. Yeah. And it's pneumatically actuated, and I think it actually could be functional. Yeah. Yeah, a small mammal would not survive those jaws. They would get torn straight in half. So the whole team behind that, dude, I think we're going to be hearing more from them now that they can finally talk about it. Yeah. Because I guess there was some serious contention that maybe this was going to be picked up by a company and licensed and maybe see some production. So I can't wait to see where that is. But if I had a company, I'd be happy to put that out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I played Friday the 13th, which also won top awards as an all-original homebrew. And I'm simultaneously humbled and encouraged to go ahead on my own homebrew journey after that. Yeah, absolutely. You look at that and you're like, well, why should I even bother? I can't compete with this. But then you look at where everything else is and how people got there. Got to start somewhere. It also tells you what is possible in your garage at home, especially for people that care about the themes. Yeah. So fantastic. Jaws was here. The LE was playing great. Any other new games to you here? So Pulp. We played Pulp for the first time. Okay. Thoughts? Love it. Awesome. Simple but effective. I like the old school vibe. but Nicole over here is not a single love.
    52:05
    All right, so Pulp Fiction gets high praise from the hot side of the table. The cool side of the table, though, is pretty meh on that overall.
    52:13
    So, Princess Bride, what side of the table are we sitting on? Oh, I'm on the cool side. Yeah, not a fan. I'm in the middle. It wasn't awful, but it wasn't great. It was different. I think solid meh in the good way and the bad way. It's like somebody told me, you know, you have a problem when the best thing someone can say about your game is they wish that somebody else made it. Oh, yeah.
    52:33
    Themes hit a home run, but execution, yeah. Let's look at Ninja Eclipse, okay? The Ninja Eclipse play field and those shots are largely the same as they were before, but they were in a different cabinet. And not even talking about half the cabinet being virtual, just different legs and different side, and people were absolutely turned off on it. So Princess Bride definitely is one-third of a great game.
    52:56
    The gameplay was good. I love the technology. I love what they did with it. But, you know, when you're asking me to pay, you know, honky-cat prices, you know, that's $11,750. And Elton John is $12,000. So that's kind of where I'm putting this in the scope range. And I just don't think it measures up against, like, a $12,000 J.J.P. game. No, not at all. And then I get the idea that, yeah, okay, well, if you spend another $4,000 and get Cannon Lagoon. No, Cannon Lagoon is $2,000. But, you know, if you buy a Final Resistance, it would probably be the one to get. Or Weird Al. So now you're like $4,000 leap, $4,000 leap. Now you're $20,000 into this thing for three games that still don't compare to traditional pinball. So it's a niche, right? And I've told people before, I think, people that own a multimorphic machine, they'll tell you ten reasons why they own it and why they love it. And people that don't own it can do the same, give you ten reasons why they don't. Sure. And it's right over there. Go play it. I got to hang on to the swords. You put your hand on the sword, man. You can rock that machine around. That felt good. I think I want the swords. I want to start putting swords on my cabinets now after that so from the product comes the innovation and the next steps and that's what we're looking for so you're not taking a multi-market home with you you're not taking Honky Kat home with you because we didn't win the drawing but you may be taking Looney Tunes home I was very tempted but they sold out thank goodness it saved us a couple days to think about it the production run though still is not sold out although I think it's half or more than half way of their $888 is all they're making all they'll ever make And I think Looney Tunes is probably going to sail through to sell out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I think TCM will get there. And they're both great games, and I'm not even sad that I have them both. Yeah. All right, thoughts on TPF?
    54:41
    Super exciting. Definitely coming back. This is our first show down here. Spending time with you as well was awesome to get to meet the people. A lot of cool people. Met a lot of familiar faces as well. You had asked me earlier. Russ and Scott, shout out on the podcast. So you had asked me earlier, like, how does this compare with Expo, and I didn't have a good answer for you. Yeah, there you go. It was hard to put it into words, but I figured it out today in the shower. All right. I figured out a lot of things in the shower. Good. So TPF is a fan convention, and Expo is the industry convention, I think. That's how the vibe feels a little bit different, okay? Okay. Now, there's still people bringing games. Fans are both places. Industries are both places. But I feel this is really more fan-forward.
    55:23
    People work on games all year to bring them to this show. This is where people from the southern half of the U.S. can come a lot easier than Chicago. Whereas Chicago is where the game headquarters are. Stern's down the street, JGP's down the street, American's down the street. So there's definitely more industry people at that show than would have to travel down to this show. So the mix-up is mostly fans here versus industry, like 70-30, and it's more like 60-40 or 50-50 at Expo. So both good shows, both have a similar vibe. I mean, it's a whole expo center full of games to play. New games are out of location. Come meet the stars and everything. But it is a whole lot easier for people that are based in Chicago to be there. So as far as getting autographs by those people, panel discussions and things, factory tours, it's much more expo is more the show floor plus everything going on in the city, whereas this, everything is right here locally. So that's how I would break it down. Sure. So they're both great, but that's the difference. That's why the vibe is different here than the vibe there. Although they're both great, and if you can get to one or both a year. Absolutely. So over the weekend, your takeaway and your highlight, where are you at?
    56:33
    The highlight, of course, was the friends I made along the way. Come on, that four-year-old girl was so happy. She wanted to try them on too. Yeah, gosh, we had a great discussion. Me and her are right on the same level. Blinky shoes, tell me all about it, girl. Oh, she was. Yeah, the people who got their golden tickets were so happy. So for sure I've got to find a way to – I can't not top that now. That's the standard. I'm exhausted. I've been screaming for three days because it's so loud in here. And I came on the show floor early because we're vendors this year, and I stayed until they were throwing us out like every day. 16 hours plus. I need a break from this, man. But, yeah, I don't think I'll be missing another Texas. And I'm definitely not missing another Expo. And I'm going to check out Southern Pride this year and probably MGC as well. Oh, dude, I'm exhausted, but it was so much fun. So I'm going to put this content out there, flying home tomorrow, and then we're going to keep going, man. And people like the podcast, it turns out. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, all kinds of people were stopping by, like, either, if I'm not here, where's Don at? And then, you know, just good words from Atlantic City to California to everywhere. Australia people listen, and it's crazy because, you know, when I'm at home, it's just me and my little booth recording. and I'm like, is anybody out there, world? Like, I'm ham radio, but like... Yeah, but we want to come out and meet the people. That's super cool. So everybody that wanted a picture or anything, I hope I lived up to your expectations. I hate to let them down.
    57:56
    All right, they're throwing us out. We've got to pack up and head out, but for TVF 2024, we will sign off now, but we'll for sure be back, and I hope my booth babes can return as well. Oh, yeah, we'll be here. Thank you, Sterling Martin, for being the best booth partner we could have. Man, we made this happen last minute, and I think we need some more. So everybody else, be sure to like and reach and shout out. DonSpinballPodcast at gmail.com is the place to get us.
    58:19
    And, you know, you know it. Give me that at your music, DonSpinballPodcast, gmail.com. Also follow on the Facebook page, 1100 of you are doing that. What do you think, Patreon? Should people join up? Oh, 100%. Absolutely. Yeah, we got a producer sitting right here, 20 bucks a month, and he's happy to do it. He's happy to do it. And more great exclusive content coming soon to the Patreon members. I can't wait. My voice is gone. I'm gone. Don Texas Pitball, signing out. 2024. I'm hungry.