The Big Trouble in Little China Homebrew Pinball Journey

Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama·video·51m 35s·analyzed·Nov 6, 2025

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Kyle Smet details 18-month Big Trouble in Little China homebrew journey from cocktail napkin sketch to Expo Best of Show.

Summary

Kyle Smet (Big Trouble in Little China homebrew designer) discusses his 18-month development journey creating a professional-quality homebrew pinball machine that debuted at Chicago Expo 2025, winning Best of Show. He details his collaborative process with professional artists (Brian Allen, Randy Martinez, Michael K), composer Scott Denise, and actor James Hong, emphasizing the importance of achieving factory-quality aesthetics and accessible gameplay for expo visitors despite deep code complexity. Kyle explores theme selection philosophy, playfield iteration (four versions), mechanical design decisions, and the intentional balance between showcase accessibility and long-term home player depth.

Key Claims

Big Trouble in Little China homebrew took 18 months to develop with four complete playfield iterations
high confidence · Kyle stated 'A year and a half' when asked development timeline, later detailed '4 playfields' process
Kyle debuted Friday the 13th at Texas Pinball Festival 2024 before immediately sketching Big Trouble on a cocktail napkin
high confidence · Kyle: 'I debuted Friday the 13th at Texas Pinball Fest in uh 24... I got home exhausted. I got out my cocktail napkin and I started to sketch this one immediately'
Professional artists (Brian Allen, Randy Martinez, Michael K) and Scott Denise contributed specifically because they were enthusiastic about the Big Trouble in Little China theme
high confidence · Kyle: 'I said, "Is this a theme you're into?" He's like, "Bro, are you kidding?" Done.'
Actor James Hong (who played Lightning) provided custom callouts for the game
high confidence · Kyle: 'I was able to contact um, James Pax, who played Lightning in Big Trouble Little China, and I asked him if he'd be keen to do some of the custom callouts. He's like, "Yeah, absolutely."'
The game went through four playfield iterations: freeform prototype, inserts refinement, art integration prototype shown at Expo, and final production version
high confidence · Kyle: 'I go through four playfields... first one is a free-for-all... second playfield will have inserts... third playfield even more refined... I had my third playfield at Expo'
Kyle intentionally designed Big Trouble for short expo play (2-3 minutes) with accessible multiball/monster battles rather than deep modes, addressing Friday the 13th feedback where nobody saw deeper content
high confidence · Kyle: 'for Big Trouble... if somebody plays it, they may never get to play this game again... I wanted to give them as much as I could in that two to three minute game'
Roger Sharp's video of playing Big Trouble in Little China homebrew reached 80,000 views
high confidence · Kyle: 'This uh video of him playing the game, I think, blew up. It's like at 80,000 views or something like that'

Notable Quotes

“I got home exhausted. I got out my cocktail napkin and I started to sketch this one immediately.”
Kyle @ ~2:45 — Origin story of Big Trouble in Little China concept immediately after Friday the 13th success
“I wanted the game to look professional... I wanted the game to look like a factory game.”
Kyle @ ~10:30 — Design philosophy prioritizing commercial-quality aesthetics over 'garage-made' homebrew appearance
“Steve, do you want me to walk you through some of the shots? He goes, 'No, I'm gonna let the game talk to me.'”
Kyle (quoting Steve Bowen) @ ~44:00 — Steve Bowen's approach to gameplay discovery; mutual respect moment between designers
“If I would have asked people what they wanted, they would have said, 'I want a faster horse.'”
Kyle (quoting Henry Ford paraphrase) @ ~32:00 — Justification for choosing 'niche' 1986 movie theme; market research limitation principle
“It's not about how good or bad a movie is. It's about how it made you feel.”
Kyle @ ~33:30 — Core philosophy on IP selection for pinball games; emotional resonance over critical reception
“I do this for fun... there's likely no part of this that will translate into my professional life for the future, but I do plan to continue to do this. It's just too much fun.”
Kyle @ ~51:00 — Definitive statement declining commercialization; prioritizing creative autonomy over industry integration
“The majority of my budget went to the playfield... but I also really like Ry's style and I tried not to have it clash.”
Kyle @ ~14:30 — Budget prioritization and artistic cohesion strategy with multiple collaborating artists
“These people are taking an hour or two hours out of their time at an expo to line up and play your game, right?”
Gonzo (host) — Articulates player commitment/expectation balance for expo homebrew machines

Entities

Kyle SmetpersonBig Trouble in Little Chinagame Friday the 13thgame Brian Allenperson Randy Martinezperson Scott DenisepersonMichael Kperson

Signals

?
community_signal: Expo gameplay lines prevented significant media coverage (podcasters, YouTube creators couldn't play due to queues), but created authentic player demand and word-of-mouth validation
medium · Kyle: 'All the podcast and YouTube guys didn't play my game because there was a line... Every time I went over there, there was just an like 80 people lining up waiting to play it'
?
community_signal: Roger Sharp video of playing Big Trouble in Little China reached 80,000+ views, representing significant community validation and visibility
high · Kyle: 'This uh video of him playing the game, I think, blew up. It's like at 80,000 views or something like that'
~
sentiment_shift: Steve Bowen's response (immediate replay after first play) and approach ('let the game talk to me') indicates mutual designer respect and game quality validation from elite player
high · Kyle: 'Steve waited in line... he got right back in line and he waited again and he played it again... he got pretty deep into it'
?
competitive_signal: Big Trouble in Little China positioned as example of boutique/niche theme execution succeeding where large manufacturers perceive risk; challenges boardroom decision-making on IP selection
medium · Host: 'A theme like this, let's say you're in the the boardroom of a major pinball manufacturer... it's not going to land because, well, it's a niche movie'
?
design_philosophy: Kyle emphasizes emotional resonance and player connection to IP over critical reception quality or mainstream appeal, citing Henry Ford automobile principle

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

0:13

All right. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and for some good night. Uh, I have Kle. Uh, Kyle, good evening to you. How are you? Hey, very well. Thanks for having me on. Hey, very well. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Oh, man. Pleasure. Uh for those that Oh, man. Pleasure. Uh for those that don't know Kyle, Carl is the whiz behind uh obviously what we're here to talk about which is big trouble in Little China and also Friday the 13th. Uh homebrew huge topic of conversation. We'll get to that in a second. Uh Kyle, I really appreciate the time. I know you must be still exhausted even though uh expo was a week ago. Oh yeah, it was a it was a whirlwind, Oh yeah, it was a it was a whirlwind, but I'm back home. In fact, I just got the game upstairs today. It was downstairs for for a couple of days. So uh I I got it plugged in. No, no damage. So, yeah, ready to uh ready to talk about definitely rejuvenated. Awesome. Awesome. Uh it's been a hectic Awesome. Awesome. Uh it's been a hectic uh I see. How long have you been working on this for? Like a year. A year and a half. So, uh I I debuted A year and a half. So, uh I I debuted Friday the 13th at Texas Pinball Fest in uh 24. I got home exhausted. I got out my I got home exhausted. I got out my cocktail napkin and I started to sketch this one immediately. I just I had so much fun and I wanted to do it again. Yeah. That uh I heard your story. I Yeah. That uh I heard your story. I can't remember who uh I heard it who I heard say it um this idea about this cocktail napkin. Um and this I was like really and it's like yeah literally I think you actually said to the guy no like it was actually a cocktail napkin. Um Um so for those that don't I mean I'd be so for those that don't I mean I'd be really hard to believe that nobody knows Big Trouble Little China. Uh it was one hell of a film with a concept that was very similar to like The Shadow. The shadow had very similar kind of um characters that were bad pe bad guys. It was like of you know the chi Chinese guys and stuff like that. So really uh similar tone, but this was it was a movie that uh for nobody that's watched it like my one of my friends hasn't seen it and I said go watch it and I sent him just a photo of the movie poster and he's he text me at the end. He goes, "I did not expect any of that to happen." Like like magic and creatures. And he's like, "I just" and I He goes, "I always thought that um like the hero was meant to be this like, you know, John Wick style character, but instead he's a little bit clumsy as well, right?" Yeah. Yeah. He's just he is the Yeah. Yeah. He's just he is the sidekick. He's a morbid. That's what makes the movie so endearing. It kind of plays on a lot of those tropes from from other movies, and you don't expect that. So, I think it turns some people off. To me, I just love it. Yeah. And I mean, obviously with Homebrew, it's great because there's no restrictions on license because you're not selling the game. You can ultimately make um whatever you'd like. What made you go uh did you already know you wanted to do this while you were doing Friday 13th or did you just go, I need a theme. What am I picking? So, I I kind of grew up in the arcade So, I I kind of grew up in the arcade and I grew up in the video store, right? So the movies that I gravitated towards were maybe movies that were off limits that I wasn't supposed to be seeing. Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday 13th, Reanimator. I just kind of love that stuff and that's what I grew up around. So I did Friday the 13th uh in part because that license is so all over the map. You that license is so all over the map. You know, you've got somebody who owns like somebody owns a likeness to Jason, somebody owns a title Friday the 13th. There's a new show coming out called Crystal Lake. It's not called Friday the 13th because of weird licensing. So, um, I knew that the way that I wanted to do it would probably nobody else could do it that way. I've got 12 movies and two video games. I mean, there's an 8-bit Nintendo mode in the game. So, I I debuted the game. Uh, it it was uh had had a great response. I had a great time. And when I knew I was going to do another game, I I didn't want to do another horror game. Um, I knew I wanted to do something that was fairly not not niche, but something that I that I connected with that translated well to pinball, like what has monsters, kung fu, magic, like what has monsters, kung fu, magic, oneliners, action, big trouble in Little China, right? So, this to me was just the perfect pinball theme. And it didn't take me too long to figure this one out. A and uh to I mean the the funny thing is not only just the trailer alone did it look professional but for everyone I've spoken to because unfortunately I couldn't be there uh I've spoken to a good handful of people maybe a dozen people and they all said if you had told someone that didn't know they would have thought like a company made this like the the attention to detail the build quality the feel um the the obviously the artwork and I want to talk about that quickly. So, you know, you've got real like proper pinball people doing this game. So, you've had proper artists doing it. You've had Scott Denzy doing the music. Um, was that challenging? Like, is that something that you were like, I need to do this properly? No. In fact, that was probably one of No. In fact, that was probably one of the easier aspects of this game. So, with my first game, I used a lot of offtheshelf art. Um, and I commissioned the art with another artist who had wasn't really familiar with pinball, not a native English speaker, um, who had never done pinball before. So, we kind of worked through that. With this game, I I wanted it to look professional, and that's not a slight um against anybody who is building their own game, you know? So, you don't want to use the term homebrew is like, oh, it just kind of looks like you made it in your garage. I I I wanted the game to look like a factory game. So, I knew what it took in order to make So, I knew what it took in order to make the game look good, but I also wanted to make the the art pop a bit wanted to make the the art pop a bit more. Um, so I contacted Brian Allen to do the Playfield. Um, and but before we even had agreement, I said, "Look, is this a theme you're into?" He's like, "Bro, are you kidding?" I love that movie. Done. Contacted Randy Martinez, who did the Contacted Randy Martinez, who did the art uh for Star Wars, Mandalorian, and John Wick. I said, "Hey, is this a theme you're into?" He's like, "Bro, are you kidding?" Great. So, I had him on the Topper in the Art Blades. Uh, contacted Scott Denise. I'm like, "Hey, man. I'm working on this game. You know, would you mind giving me a couple of custom songs?" He's like, "Yeah, no problem." Um, I was able to contact um, James Pax, who played Lightning in Big Trouble Little China, and I asked him if he'd be keen to do some of the custom callouts. He's like, "Yeah, absolutely." Um, so it was just a matter of of Um, so it was just a matter of of asking. Um, and I think it helped that I had a game that I had done. So, so I had demonstrated that I can actually bring this not to market, but bring this out to public for for people to enjoy. So, it was a joy working with everybody who I collaborated with. Well, the uh the pinball resume uh is kind of the best way of credibility, right? It's like look what I built and now uh you know, help me with the next one. Um did you have uh like a lot of people always have reservations about using multiple artists on one game because of different styles of artwork? Yeah. Yeah. Um I don't think that really exists on Um I don't think that really exists on this because like you can't because one of them did the playfield but then the other did the art blades and the and the back glass, right? So I had an artist on the back glass. I So I had an artist on the back glass. I had an artist on the art blades and the topper and an artist on the playfield and the cabinet was the pork chop express. So, you're right. Yeah. Does it come together in a cohesive way? Does it come together in a cohesive way? And I'll tell you, um I I did the best that I could with the budget that I had. Um I I had to get a little creative Um I I had to get a little creative because I'm not rich. Uh I would love to have had kind of a more traditional collage style back glass, but I think what Michael Kandra did for the back glass was incredible. So, I met him at a convention and he does a lot of uh Game of Thrones art, but I commissioned this piece specifically for the game. And I knew I wanted Lan front and center with the skull and the and the lightning to have a collection of of characters would have been awesome, but it would have been outside my my budget. So, the majority of my budget went to the playfield. Um, but I also really like Ry's style. And I tried not to have it clash and I tried to have it mesh as much as possible. So you got the Buddhas on the side with with kind of a 3D hall effect. Um and then the back panel is also the uh Buddhas. You've got James Pax as uh uh Lightning as the um topper. So I tried to integrate some of the some of the lightning. You know, you got lightning etched into the uh into the side trim. So again, yes, it's it's a lot of different artists and sometimes those those styles can can clash, but I did the best that I could to make it all as cohesive as possible. A and look I think uh it is definitely uh come together extremely well. uh in future I think if you uh ever if budget's always an issue you should just reach out like I would sponsor to help home brew someone like literally I was like cuz we do in some of the work I do sometimes people do reach out for sponsors to kind of help funding um and like to have your name associated with it's a bit like you know content creators or influencers that have um you Patreon right they they nominate their followers because at the end of the day you know it's like Oh, I I help them, you know, do what they do. Um, but yeah, look, so you've sent through some photos and, mate, the artwork is uh it ties in really well. I know this is the part of pinball that I always love seeing the concepts. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, of like sticky tape and ramps. And Uh, of like sticky tape and ramps. And did you borrow ramps and mechs from other games or did you make the ramps? Get the ramps made? I did. So, um, with Friday the 13th, I I did. So, um, with Friday the 13th, I had two ramps. One was from Kiss, Stern Kiss. The other was from Terminator. Um, this one I used uh the Medieval Um, this one I used uh the Medieval Madness ramp that I had kind of performed surgery on. So, I altered it. I I cut about 25% off and I added a a new wire form there. So, um to me this this might be sacrilege, but like there there are so many ramps out there and and they kind of do the same thing. You know, you shoot up the left, you shoot up the right, there's a curb, and there you go. what I had in my mind and the reason that I used the Medieval Madness ramp was because before I ever put pen to paper, I knew that I wanted the skull as a centerpiece from the movie. So, I knew that I wanted a ramp that shot around the skull. So, I thought, well, what game kind of has a big mech centerpiece with a ramp that goes around? I'm like, oh, medieval madness. There you go. And it worked out perfectly. And I've got two 180 ramps. Uh, and I and it's essentially just kind of a generic um reverse scoot or uh reverse ramp uh that I took from Alien. Um, so I used the uh pop-up troll mech from Medieval Madness. I got some stuff from Alien. The uh center kickback is from Medusa, one of my favorite games. Um, and then I got some some parts and pieces and I do have some uh custom lane guides that I made myself. So, it's kind of a combination of a lot of different things. And I that's the first thing I noticed uh was oh my god, you know, inline drops. I love inline drops. And then I love them. Yeah, I love them. Yeah, I know, right? Like I think games should I know, right? Like I think games should have like two or three of them. Um uh sets uh the medieval madness homage to the the troll popping up. And then the Medusa uh as well. And then there's the magnet near the flipper as well that holds um which was I think I was we were speaking last night about it which is in roller um roller games roller games roller games. I always forget the name. roller games. I always forget the name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Um so it's cool. I mean look I always say so it's cool. I mean look I always say to people they always comment online that game's got similar stuff to that game. It's like well there's only so much real estate on a playfield right and it's inevitable that games are always going to have very similar shots uh at some point. Uh, I am a sucker for plastic ramps. I think plastic ramps just scream nostalgia and I'm just a huge nostalgia freak. Uh, so when I saw that plastic ramp, it actually felt like a ' 90s game. And I have a thing with ' a ' 90s game. And I have a thing with ' 90s games where I just think they've got so much more character and soul than modern games these days. They're not as deep. I fully get that. But they're just a feel a soul about them when you play them. Like one of my favorites is Johnny Monic. And it's it just feels like I'm in the movie, right? And I got this from your even though I haven't played it. And mind you, a lot of people didn't get to play it cuz the cues were massive. Um so, you know, just looking at it, it gave me a sense of nostalgia. And the plastic ramps, I think, are just a great um a great um asset to have. Um, under the skull there's a U shot, right? Which is very similar to what I've seen in things like Labyrinth and um, uh, Rick and Morty and stuff like that. Uh, you're obviously a fan of that type of shot. So, I do love horseshoe shots, right? So, I do love horseshoe shots, right? And I I I love shots that whip around and come back at you. Um, I hate being punished with a clean shot. So, I don't like, you know, you hit an So, I don't like, you know, you hit an orbit and it goes straight down the middle or you hit a horse, you go straight the middle. So, what I did add was a left kickback, a center kickback, and a right swing gate. So, if you drain, it's your fault. You have the capability to fight back with with every place to drain. And the reason that I put the magnet on the right, and I had never played um roller games was I have a complete um uh uh orbit shot that goes right around. And that shot from the upper flipper to that left reverse ramp was hard. I'm like, "Holy crap, I can't hit this consistently." So, I added that magnet to catch it. So, hold it in place for about two seconds, hold it in place for about two seconds, long enough for the player to set it up, and you can hit the drops, the ramp, or that or that horseshoe uh scoop. So, there's really a bunch of different options from that upper flipper. And the shot from the upper flipper to that horseshoe loop is is my favorite shot in the game by far. So, I've got some So, these are some of the photos that Kyle sent through, guys, that um just shows the conception uh and the layout because when there's so much going on like when I saw the trailer, I was pausing it and I'm like, "All right, where does the ball go?" Like, where are the where are the shots going? And this, I think, gives you a really cool Has it changed much from this? I know the troll location is not in the middle anymore. Yeah. So, I will go through four play Yeah. So, I will go through four play fields when I'm, you know, I talk like I'm super experienced. I made two games, but uh with with Friday 13th and Big Trouble, I go through four playfields. The first one is a free-for-all. You trill, glue, burn, scrape, saw, do whatever you can just to get the idea uh or or the flow of the shots. The second playfield will have the inserts and those shots have been refined. The third playfield will be even more The third playfield will be even more refined. And at that point, the art uh I I'll put a decal. So, I had my third playfield at Expo to kind of show, hey, this was the prototype to show you what the shots look like with the art because the shot and the art should be cohesive, right? You know, you should tell the player where to shoot with the sound, with the music, with the screen, with the art, and with the insert, right? So, all of those things work together in the brain of the player to to know where you're going to hit. So, a lot of things moved around. So, you see there's a pop bumper there that I originally had, uh, which was fun, but it wasn't uh, which was fun, but it wasn't necessarily interactive. like you would hit it and it would come back. So I said, "What else can I do with it?" So instead of the pop bumper, I added a drop target, optos, a vuck, uh a wire form, and then the skull. So I uh a wire form, and then the skull. So I it's uh it was a lot more fun. The center um bash toy I moved to the upper right and it was kind of a happy accident because it happened to be in the hand of the wild man, the kind of werewolf looking guy. So he's holding that and then that's where it it uh pops up. I just didn't want this to be like a direct center shooting game. So, you've already got that uh um you know, Vuck in the center. You've got a center drop target. So, I just kind of moved the uh the popup to way to the right. Uh yeah, and man, there's so much going Uh yeah, and man, there's so much going on in it. It's um See if I can share Trying to share is uh this one is a little bit H one sec. There you Yeah, this is prototype. Um, so some of some of the wires and stuff are still all over the place. Yeah, Yeah, it's very cool. Um, and to your point about the 90s, there and to your point about the 90s, there there are some things and they're like the star rollovers. I love those. Those are super cool. So, that's kind of what I was going for was a game that looked like it may have been made in the 90s, but with kind of a modern aesthetic, the modern art, and then the screen, the light shows, and then the screen, the light shows, and all that kind of stuff. So, I I I do like those games as well. Yeah, it's just something like as much as all the modern stuff is great. I mean, I'm not a great player. I tell everyone on the channel all the time. So, the code, the deepness of a game is irrelevant to me. Like, I love playing Shadow, um, Tron, Creature, uh, Dirty Harry, those type of like, and yes, predominantly a lot of them are movie based of some of some sort. Um, but it's because I connect to those, right? And I'm part of I feel like I'm part of that universe. So, um, this is one of my I mean, I've got a um, this is one of my I mean, I've got a movie poster that's signed of this film. Um, so like for me, as soon as I saw the trailer, at first I didn't realize that it was at first I didn't realize that it was like a homebrew and I was like excited. I was like, who's making this? Who's making this? So, and there's no question. I mean, if it was to get picked up by someone, and I'm sure people will always ask that question, um, you know, and they made a thousand of them, it it would sell out because it's just a theme that a lot of people has asked for, you know, and a lot of people know and a lot of people uh, you know, I guess when when a company is rumored to be doing a theme, we don't know what it's going to have and going to look like. We can only go that's going to be great. You've done it the other way where you've come out of nowhere and showed it completed. So, we don't have to think, right? We just want it. A theme like this, let's say you're in A theme like this, let's say you're in the the boardroom of a major pinball manufacturer and you float a theme like this, it's it's not going to land because, well, it's a niche movie. It came out in the 80s. Nobody cares about it. You don't know what it is until you see You don't know what it is until you see it. So, this is an anecdotal story. It's not true, but it kind of demonstrates a point. You know, somebody asked Henry Ford, well, you know, what was your market research before you built the automobile? And he said, "Well, if I would have asked people what they wanted, they would have said, "I want a faster horse." People don't necessarily know what it is until they see it. You see it and you go, "Oh." And the response that I got at at Expo from from fellow fans, right? Because we all, you know, the their kind of core demographic of of of players uh who who really enjoy this movie just really responded to this game. And it kind of goes to show the the the power of a theme. And I've I've heard some folks talk about, you know, movies and licenses. Oh, I don't want to make that license because that's not a very good movie. And I think they're kind of missing the point. It's not about how good or bad a movie is. It's about how it made you feel, about how a license makes you feel. Um, so whether the the the band or the movie or the show was great or it doesn't kind of hold up, it's about bringing those moments to the player and and and you're interacting with those moments. And that's what's so cool about pinball, right? you know, these are the moments that you remember and you're actually part of it. And and I just I I love it. I love it. And I think that's that's the key to and And I think that's that's the key to and I've said it before on the channel, so our regular view viewers will get sick of me saying this. I think for me, the key to successful pinball, and it's very adamant with things like Spooky and Barrels of Fun, is the boutique, leveraging nostalgia, and memories. Um because let's face it, I'm 41 and a lot of the stuff that is nostalgic is stuff that pinball plays between 40 and 60 can relate to. Um and I think you know any theme that is around 80s and 90s is always going to be a hit. You know there was a lot of people that critiqued Barrels for choosing Labyrinth because like you know that classic nobody asked for Labyrinth. Um, well, you know, out of the pinball community, which isn't a big community, but on a global scale, I'm sure there's a thousand people out there that that love pinball, but also love Labyrinth, right? So, maybe there's some of those people that can't afford one, but at the end of the day, they will eventually get one, whether it's secondhand or not. I think any theme personally is a theme that can be done. you know, things like Fifth Element, Bladeunner, um, Rambo, Commando, uh, even I don't know if you remember the film American Ninja. I do. I do. So, American Ninja had like 10 I think So, American Ninja had like 10 I think there were like 10 sequels, but the first three or four were like iconic in Australia. Like, it was you couldn't hire it at the video store um because it was just this thing about uh was it Michael Vikov, I think was his name, the actor Vikov maybe. Yeah. So that's a similar like that Yeah. So that's a similar like that would make a great pinball. Um yeah, yeah, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Sonic, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Sonic, you know, you got video games, you got movies. I I just think if anyone was sitting in a boardroom and was like pitched this idea and they said, "Oh, it's too risky are out of touch." Uh because the just has everything you want in Secret Source of you know successful pinball. Uh especially I guess if you're making if you're Stern and you're making like 5,000 games maybe uh it may be a bit of a niche, but even that I mean everyone knows this film, everyone. Um so I'd be surprised. Uh talk me through this little doodle sketch on the on the napkin here. So this is actually the sketch after the So this is actually the sketch after the cocktail napkin. The original cocktail napkin sketch I sent you had some art and the layout was similar except it was flipped. So the original idea that I sketched uh during my meeting when I should have been working was essentially what this was but but uh backwards. So this was more uh refined after I had run all the inserts and stuff through uh Adobe Illustrator. So um you can still see the pop bumper. I had five um star rollovers in the horseshoe. I I took it down to two. Um I added a captive ball. couple of other little um little differences, but this was, you know, about 75% of the layout that I wanted. And um and I knew it had to have, you know, the right kinds of modes, the right kinds of multiballs. Um code-wise, uh when I did Friday the 13th, that that game had 23 modes, tons of multiballs, tons of moments. Nobody saw it at TPF because number one, the game is super hard and everything that I had coded in there was deeper into the game. So, I coded it for a home player who would actually buy this game. Nobody saw the things that I was trying to do. So, for Big Trouble and Little China, there's the cocktail napkin sketch. So, this was the first drawing that I did in my mind with, you know, the Wild Man, you got Lopean. So, you can see uh all of my modes survived except for Lords of Death. Um so, I've got uh what, six modes. Most of my monster battles and multiballs survived. the the truck I I took the the truck off and I put low pan front and center and the truck became the cabinet. Um, so for this game, the way I coded it is I like if somebody plays it, they may never get to play this game again. Like they're at a show. So I wanted to give them as much as I So I wanted to give them as much as I could in that two to three minute game that they're going to have. I I wanted them to fight a monster. I wanted to get a multiball. I wanted to experience a lot of light shows. Uh, and I tried to do that as best as I could. So, there were a couple of things that I was super jazzed about that nobody saw because they were a bit deeper, but most of the stuff was kind of front and center. That That's a really interesting comment That That's a really interesting comment because I actually remember hearing the guys that did Mad Max say this that when they first brought the game to one of the shows, a lot of people had queued up for like an hour and then their three balls lasted like and then their three balls lasted like a couple minutes because of how hard the a couple minutes because of how hard the game was. Um, so they had to make tweaks to give people at the next show a better experience because these people are taking an hour or two hours out of their time at an expo to line up and play your game, right? And I think you're right, there's that balance of finding they're never going to play this again unless it obviously gets picked up by manufacturer, but um you know, letting them experience in that 3 to 5 minutes um you know, something pretty memorable for them. Um you know, some people were telling me that Predator apparently only had one ball just to get through the the people, right, to try and look, I I get it. You know, it is like I was talking to Retro Ralph and he said he didn't even get to play this game because that he goes, "Every time I went over there, there was just an like 80 people lining up waiting to play it." Yeah. Um I I didn't, you know, all the Yeah. Um I I didn't, you know, all the podcast and YouTube guys didn't play my game because there was a line, you know, they've got their their job to do. But uh I my I had a hard time at expo because I'm so in excited about this game and I want to tell people what to shoot for and what to do. But these people also just want to play and experience it, right? So you know sometimes I would go and oh, you know, hit this and they like go away weirdo. Let me play my game. Um Steve Bowen uh was in line and if you've never seen him play, it's it's it's something to see. So my one of my favorite memories from Expo was Steve waited in line. He and and when he walked up, I said, "Steve, do you want me to walk you through some of the shots?" He goes, "No, I'm gonna let the game talk to me." Which I thought was a really interesting thing to say. So, he does his thing. He blows up the So, he does his thing. He blows up the game. He he got pretty deep into it and after his game, he goes, "Okay." And he got right back he goes, "Okay." And he got right back in line and he waited again and he played it and he waited again and he played it again. Um, that that was super cool. Um, again, I I just I really enjoyed seeing people play and those moments that I have spent just months kind of agonizing over and and call outs and light shows. To see it all come together and to watch people smile was just was just so cool. And uh I'm going to throw this one out And uh I'm going to throw this one out there. How was this moment,

25:51

Mr. Roger Sharp playing your game? Oh yeah. Um, Roger was just such a Oh yeah. Um, Roger was just such a genuine guy to talk to. Um, and and we had uh we had several conversations and and and he was just uh he he was a joy to to watch play. He he was a joy to connect with and and when Roger plays, you know, people stop what they're doing and and watch. This uh video of him playing the game, I think, blew up. It's like at 80,000 views or something like that. Yeah. But crazy. Um, you know, I I think Yeah. But crazy. Um, you know, I I think the captions video was, "This is something you don't see every day. Roger Sharp playing Big Trouble in Little China, you know, and just from my perspective as this niche hobbyist who does this for fun." That was that was a moment that was really cool. Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, Roger has Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, Roger has this thing about this uh apart from everyone knows what he's done, but he has an energy about him. I've never met him in person, but I've like I've seen interviews and and he's just such a likable person that it's uh you know it anything that that it's uh you know it anything that he kind of touches you just kind of get in awe at like uh watching him talk or watching him play a game. Um, so have you ever thought about like with homebrew cuz like manufacturers even like Spooky, right? They started they like we can make a game. We don't need a company to make it for us. I through the process of creating this game, have you kind of gone I reckon if I had the money or the backing that I could manufacture this like that your company could ultimately make a game like this, a hundred of them or or 500 of them or is it just too much of a task? I guess I'm gonna I'm gonna answer you very I'm gonna I'm gonna answer you very honestly. I I do this for fun. I love it. I have a job that I'm fortunate enough uh provides me with some disposable income and I'm able to take care of my kids. Um you know being involved with the industry comes with its own you know set of challenges and it you know when when you build these custom games you're almost separated from that and you just get to participate in the fun part. So, for the time being, what I'm able to to do and bring to you these shows really is is worth it just because I I I love to the the process of building I I love the creation. I love the art, the geometry, the strategy, and then bringing what you have toiled over to a show and to have people connect with it just is is so special and it's so cool. So, uh, to to answer your question, no, there, you know, there there's there's likely no, um, you know, uh, part of this that will translate into my professional life for the future, but but I do plan to to continue to do this. It's just too much fun. What What made you uh, and I probably What What made you uh, and I probably should ask you at the beginning, what made you even get into homebrew? Like, what made you make Friday the 13th? Like, were there just things that you wanted were there just things that you wanted that you just hadn't seen? Yeah. So, uh, I'm I'm one of those Yeah. So, uh, I'm I'm one of those people where I don't really like to talk about stuff. I just go do it, right? Yep. Um, so I've been in the hobby for Um, so I've been in the hobby for probably about 15 years. I bought my first game on Craigslist. I didn't know how to turn it on. I thought it was broken. So, I got it home. I'm like, the game doesn't work. So, I called the guy. I'm like, "This game is broken." He goes, "You have to turn it on." I said, "How do you do that?" Turned it on. Was it It was an F-14. Turned it on, the lights came on, and that was it. I was done. I'm like, "This is the coolest thing." So, I, you know, built up my collection. Um, you know, I'm I'm limited with space and fun, so I really only have like, you know, five, six, seven games at a time. Um, and then I started to restore games. There was a local operator. He would bring me a roach game and I would fix it. And I started to learn how to fix games. And then it got to the point where I And then it got to the point where I enjoyed working on them more than playing them. And and I still love to play. And I said, well, what's what's next? And there was this guy named Ernie Silverberg who had tried pinball and he was offering kits, homebrew kits. He's like, "Hey, if you've ever thought about, you know, making your own game, I'm I'm doing these kits." And I was his first customer. I'm like, "Bro, you know, what do I need?" And and "Bro, you know, what do I need?" And and and we kind of worked through that process. And uh you know, I got a piece of wood and I started gluing stuff and I'm like, "This is the thing." So my goal with Friday 13th was to have a game that looked like a commercial game um with a clear-coded playfield, with a nice cabinet. Um you know, looking back at at I've I've got the game now. I'm going to take it to the the Houston show next month. There's a lot of things, oh, I should have done this and I should have done that, but you can't beat yourself up. So, that's how I got into it is I just I got to a point creatively where I was ready to take that next step. Um, and do you find that with like for me, I've been doing this a while and there's themes that one of one of them I'll just say is Fifth Element that I would love to see as a pinball. And I was like, okay, I I don't think I could make a game, but maybe I could rethe one. And then even that, you look at the retheing, which a lot of the work's already been done for you. You just have to essentially redo the art and the code. And I just was so overwhelmed that in the end I just that that I was like I just hope someone makes the game. Yeah. Yeah. Um is it as is it as challenging and as Um is it as is it as challenging and as intimidating as what people actually think? It's it's not easy but it's not um it's It's it's not easy but it's not um it's not impossible. So with the games and I'm not going to speak for anybody who elects to not make a game or to rethe a game or to make their own game. My opinion is that when you go to a show, um, you want to experience something new. Um, so when you step up to Friday the 13th or Big Trouble in Little China, this is a layout that you've never shot before. Now, I'm not saying that my layouts are going to, you know, change the pinball world, you know, and but but that was that was a choice, you know. I wasn't out to reinvent the wheel. I wanted shots that I thought were fun, that uh were satisfying. Um, so, uh, that uh were satisfying. Um, so, uh, there there are folks who homebrew who will do a rethe and that's that's awesome. Certainly, it's a different challenge to come up with your own layout, right? Because that that's that takes a lot of lot of effort. Clearly, I'm not very advanced, you know, I I I don't cab the whole project. I'm I am a uh roll up your sleeves and just shoot it till it feels good type of type of a guy. But, it was important to me to to have an original layout. One of the things that I really liked when I saw the trailer was uh the display, right? So, what we can see here at the moment, we we have and I've never been to America, so I can't comment, but in Australia, there's very stereotypical, especially in the '9s, there was a lot of kind of stereotypical Chinese restaurants that had that very similar decor to the layout, like the red um ribbon around the edges there. So, you know, that screams kind of, you know, it's kind of Chinese themed in a way. Um, did you like getting obviously all this information on the screen is important. You don't want to overwhelm people like some manufacturers tend to have it do like that balance like who's actually like that balance like who's actually come up with this layout and done this for you. So, I I did this and I'll tell you that So, I I did this and I'll tell you that this didn't this wasn't an accident. The what you're seeing now, what I have in the final game is probably version 75. Wow. It it started with just like I I Wow. It it started with just like I I took a screenshot of a scene from the movie and I had a score. I'm like, well, what does a player need to know right now? And then I started to incorporate different elements and I wanted the screen to feel alive. With Friday the 13th, it was fairly static. Um, there wasn't a lot of movement. So, this base screen, everything is is moving. You've got lightning that's moving. It's it's actively raining. The lights are turning off and on. The brides on the left and the right are blinking their eyes and they're breathing. Um, so, so what does a player need to know? So, I'm I'm Jack Burton and I have to fight Lopean. What do I have to do to fight Lopean? I got to do three things. I have to do all my monster battles and that's in the lefth hand side there at the bottom. Those are the shots you have to make. Captive ball, drops, and standups to fight the monsters. On the right side, I have to do six missions. There's three easy missions, two medium missions, and a hard mission. I also have to spell magic to start darkest magic multiball. And that's at the top. How do you spell magic? you get skill shots, ramps, spinners. So, those are kind of your supers. So, as a player, I I know my progress to get to the end. Um, also, as a side quest, the six demon bag scene, I just I mean, if you've seen the movie, this is the magic potion that they drink to fight the bad guys. It just makes them feel awesome. Makes them feel invincible. So, I did that with switch hits. So, it's 150 switch hits and then at the end of that, you qualify a shot. It's only good for a couple of seconds. If you make it, you're invincible. You have a ball saver and you get points. If you miss it, Lopean punishes you. He'll punish you with reverse flippers. He'll punish you. He'll turn your lights out. He'll take away your score. So, again, this is a battle. You are battling to get to the end. Um, so to to capture that on the base screen just took a lot of work and a lot of walks around my neighborhood and a lot of troubleshooting and a lot of kind of teasing out what um felt good. And I'll share with you real quick that I didn't know if any of this was going to land. I didn't know if it was going to work. Nobody played this game. Like my my wife and kids don't play pinball. They don't care. This is dad's thing. And he's up in the basement. Hurryy's up in the second floor doing his thing. So I brought it to Expo and I'm like, So I brought it to Expo and I'm like, "Well, I sure hope people like this game." And I open it up and here comes Carrie Hardy and he's got his, you know, rig and he's like, "Oh, is this the big trouble game?" I went, "Yeah, I just need to test switches, but if you want to play it." So, he was the he was the first person to ever play it other than me. Um, but but to watch the kind of response and the people see what the game was about was uh was pretty cool. It it look, it's been so interesting It it look, it's been so interesting kind of talking to people that got to play it and people that even the people that haven't that just got to stand back and watch people play it. He said you could tell it's a game that He said you could tell it's a game that like it doesn't matter that it wasn't designed by like an Elwin or you know, anyone like that. It it had it just ticked all the boxes and you could see people enjoyed that element of it and people were drawn in. The callouts they said are really cool. So the call outs is the character. It's it's the guy that is on the journey with Kurt Russell, right? I always forget the character's name. So Wang is is uh is is really the the So Wang is is uh is is really the the main character of the you know movie, right? Kurt Russell is a sidekick, but in but in the pinball experience you're you're Jack B. So the person providing the call outs is James Pax. sets a guy on the topper. So, it's not Wang. James Pax is just he's he's connected with the movie and I like to make games that are connected to the franchise. So, Friday 13th had six of the original actors from that series provide call outs. Um, with with this one, James is kind of talking you through what what shots to do. So, he's not necessarily your sidekick helping you. He's just kind of the that uh voice in the sky steering you. Yeah, he was um one of the three guys Yeah, he was um one of the three guys with the big hats. That's right. He was one of the storms storms were He was one of the storms storms were rain, thunder, and lightning. He played lightning. Yeah, that's right. Um, and Yeah, that's right. Um, and did he record those? Like, did you did it you just give him like information and he recorded them himself or did he meet up with you to do it or how how was that process? I sent him a script and he read the I sent him a script and he read the script. There you go. So, I I knew, you know, what the rules were at that point, and I knew what he should say to kind of get the player um to to his or her shots where they needed to make. So, yeah, I I just wrote the script out, sent it to him, and and he, you know, got it back to me in like two days. Yeah. Wow. That's that's impressive. Um Yeah. Wow. That's that's impressive. Um I'm a huge Scott Denise fan. Like, I love anything Scott does. I've got his games. Uh Rick and Morty kills me, but it's a it still gets me going for more. I love TNA. I've got his Final Resistance as well on the P3. Uh, how did you I mean, uh, did you have an idea of the style or did Scott because Scott knows the film, did he just run with it? So, he's probably not as familiar with So, he's probably not as familiar with the film as I was, you know, like what what what is that? I don't get it. So, I chatted with him at one of the shows. I'm like, and I think at Friday 13th, I'm like, "Hey, man. You know, I'm I'm working on this game. you know, do you think you might be interested? He's like, "Yeah, you know, maybe I'm busy." So, I uh reached out to him later. I'm like, "Dude, I know you're SL." And this was months in advance. This was probably four or five months before Expo. I'm like, "If if you're able to make this happen, I would love it. If it doesn't work out, that's okay." So, what I had asked for was this uh was a was a couple of custom tracks. And what he did as well is he equalized all of the music in the game um to kind of make it the same level, which made it super easy for me to to to go in and uh uh kind of develop that sound package. So, he was able to do two custom tracks for the game. And again, I I asked I'm like, "Hey, this is what I'm doing. It probably helped that I had a game under my belt so I'm not just some kind of random weirdo who's, you know, gluing stuff in his garage." So, I said, "Uh, I would love to have So, I said, "Uh, I would love to have your music in the game." So, uh, he's he's got a custom track in one of the modes and Darkest Magic Multiball. And I said, "What I'd like for you to So, so I sent him all the music that I was using for the game." I said, "This is kind of the the jumping off point." Uh, it was a lot of the uh music from the movie, and I think I had one or two royalty-free kind of technoe tracks for the multiballs. I said, "This is the vibe that I'm going for. Kind of a Far East, you know, high high energy experience." And of course he's Scott Denise, so he just killed it. Yeah. Oh yeah. I look anything I've got Yeah. Oh yeah. I look anything I've got all these tracks on my sp title account that I listen to in the car occasionally. They're great. Um so yeah, great. And I hope we get to Um so yeah, great. And I hope we get to listen to uh some of these tracks as well because uh it's hard to hear even on um one of the streams I was showing before. It's very hard to hear the super challenging shows to to get the sound right. You know, I've told people told me the game was too loud. People told me they couldn't hear the game. I mean, you can't really win. So you you do the best you can. Whereabouts in the US are you located? Whereabouts in the US are you located? I'm in Houston right now. So I built the I'm in Houston right now. So I built the most of the game in Virginia. We moved um as I was building the game. So I lost about two or three months just with the move with the game packed up. So we're in Houston now. So we're gonna have to get I'm gonna So we're gonna have to get I'm gonna have to send someone to come and uh play the game, record it, and then we can post it on the channel. I may see if Jamie isn't Jamie in Houston. Jamie Bersel. Pretty sure he's in Houston. Yeah, I have to ask him. Um cuz a lot of Yeah, I have to ask him. Um cuz a lot of people have said, "Oh, see if you can get just footage of like the game playing and nobody talking and no sounds and it's like, well, I'm sure we'll we'll see that eventually." Um we'll get there. we'll get there. The the center post was a bit of a talk. The the center post was a bit of a talk. A lot of people are like, "Oh, there's a center post, but it's chunky and it looks like it moves, right?" So, you control that with the action button. Talk me through that. So, one of my favorite games is Medusa. So, one of my favorite games is Medusa. I love Medusa and I just stole it from Medusa. There you go. um with Medusa it was called the shield of the gods and you control it with a second right flipper button and it just launches the ball back up the playfield. So um modern players are used to kind of a center um that that center smash button, right? So what what what was important to me was what what what was important to me was that you have the tools available to you to fight back against rains and I'm like oh what can I do in the center? Oh do the center post. So with Friday 13th I had a drop target. um which works sometimes. You know, if you get a super fast ball, it'll bounce off. A slowmoving ball will just knock it down and it's done. So, with so with this one, you have to time it right. And what I need to do for uh for the next time it's at a show is have a label that says use the center launch button to use the center kickback because people aren't used to this. They they don't know what it is. So, once you know I I talked to a couple players like, "Hey, if you wanna like you could have saved that ball, you just got to slap it." they go, "Oh, okay." And then the base screen will track how many kickbacks you have. So, right now at at at the current code, you have two left kickbacks per ball and two center kickbacks per ball. And in future code updates, I'll like with the mystery, you can get more kickbacks or you know, with bump bonuses or whatever. Um, and uh the system is built on Um, and uh the system is built on fastboards. Yes. And the code Yes. And the code uh the code is from uh mission pinball uh the code is from uh mission pinball framework npm which is pretty much what all the uh homebrew guys use. It's an open source way for for people who don't know how to code to code. It's not easy. It's a steep learning curve. I have no coding background. I never coded anything in my life before I started uh Friday 13th. Um but once you kind of get the hang of it, you you just have to think about things differently with MPF. Everything is based off of an event. this event happens and it cues this event and this event. Um, yeah. So, I mean, once you get like a shot going, then you just build off of that. Then you can add a sound to it. Then you can add a light show, then you can put it in a mode, and then you can do a carousel, so you can select modes, etc., etc., and it just builds from there. Uh, one of the I forget her name. I'm Uh, one of the I forget her name. I'm terrible with bloody names. uh the lady that did um uh The Greatest Showman, she said, "I have Yeah, I have no coding experience and Yeah, I have no coding experience and I'm female." And it's like she's like, "So, if I can do it, anyone can do it." And you know, and that was really wholesome of her to kind of go, you know, it it is doable, right? It is doable. Um so, I thought I'd just show you a bit more gameplay quickly. Um, was there anything that you wish you had done that uh either didn't make it or you didn't think of until someone gave you some feedback or you very happy with the way it is? I I'm pretty happy in its current I I'm pretty happy in its current condition. There are obviously, you know, a a game is never done. It's abandoned. So, there's always something that I can add to it. You know, there there were a couple of uh, you know, things that I can add in the future to to make sure the balls don't get trapped, stuff like that. But as far as code, the the code is where I wanted it for this show. Now, if this game, like if if I was coding it just to be in somebody's house, then I would go a lot deeper. And I think a lot of those moments would probably be baked in a little bit further into the game rather than right up front. And I've got tons of other ideas for And I've got tons of other ideas for ways to like open up the game um with with all kinds of crazy stuff. But again, if if the intent is to bring this to a show, folks are likely not going to experience that. So, um, in in our little community, they call it expo code. So, I'll probably have home code that goes super deep. You know, it's going to take a while to get there, and then I'll have expo code, which, you know, modes are easier, things pop out sooner, and it's easier to get that. That's a really clever way of that. That's a really clever way of doing it because, like you said, at expo there's not a lot of time. People queue up for ages. um and uh you know giving them the best experience. Um from the from Vic VP's um uh footage here, the game like it has good flow. Like one of the comments a few people have said is that the shots feel like butter. Um is that something that you were surprised yourself even though like even you said you weren't a you're not a pinball designer and you just sketched it on a napkin. Did you have change those shots much or did you nail them pretty much straight away? So, I'd rather be lucky than good. Um, So, I'd rather be lucky than good. Um, and I'll and I'll tell you that a lot of the uh a lot of the shots, a lot of the flow was a happy accident. Um, but that's not to say that I just started gluing stuff on the playfield and I I hope this works. I played this game non-stop for a year and a half. Um, yeah. and I agonized over things that people will never notice or see to make sure that you don't feel that to make sure that you don't feel that klunk that the ball just doesn't go haywire and you know jump over plastic or whatever. So, um I I credit a a little bit to luck and a lot of preparation, right? I I went through a lot of metal. I went through a lot of plastic, a lot of wood glue, um, a lot of the emotional distress and triumph and heartache and all of the things to to make a game that I just thought would be really fun to shoot with approachable, familiar shots. I wanted to ask you about I'm glad that I wanted to ask you about I'm glad that I saw this. Um, this is the mode selector on the screen where it's got the VCR and the TV. I thought that was a really cool um, I've got some eggs there in the uh in I've got some eggs there in the uh in the little VCR section that that nobody picked up on. I was hoping that somebody would would uh catch some of that. But the uh VCR says easy and then as you go through the modes, it's medium and then hard. Um and then all of the movies there um Um and then all of the movies there um tell it tell a story, but I'll keep my trap shut. Maybe somebody will catch it another show. Um so yeah, look look I I think it's Um so yeah, look look I I think it's fantastic. I just was in awe when I saw the trailer and I was just like, man, I was meant to be coming to Expo and it wasn't like it was more the thing that that I was it was more the thing that that I was probably disappointed the most was like, I'm not going to get to see this game. I was like, and you know, and really loving the movie. I was like, oh man. And I was like, I'm sure we'll see plenty of footage and plenty of content. So, um, and I'd reached out to you before expo and I was like really hoping we could chat before, but I fully understood that you were flat out obviously. Yeah. Thanks for I was Yeah. Thanks for I was hauling the mail to to get the game in a hauling the mail to to get the game in a position where I I thought it would be ready for the crowd. Yeah. Well, look, I'm so glad we're Yeah. Well, look, I'm so glad we're we're going to see it at the Houston Expo. When's that? It's in a couple weeks. So, Friday 13th will beat Houston and So, Friday 13th will beat Houston and the plan is to take both of my games, Friday 13th and Big Trouble to TPF. So, Oh, TPF. Oh, TPF. So, I'm gonna I'm gonna let Lopean rest So, I'm gonna I'm gonna let Lopean rest for the Houston show. I'm going to bring Jason out. Uh, and in fact, the the playfield's up right now. I'm adding a couple things to that now. So, um, yeah, by, uh, TPF, hopefully I'll um, yeah, by, uh, TPF, hopefully I'll have incorporated some of those things that maybe I thought it could need with some extra, you know, light shows, maybe some call outs, and some other fun stuff. Well, I know that multiple people told Well, I know that multiple people told me that there was, uh, pinball manufacturers that played your game, and I hope to God someone contacts you and says, uh, we want to make this. Um, and I hope it gets made because I know a lot of people that would buy it. Uh, and uh, yeah, like it's captivating and the fact that it's based on what most of us want, which is an 80s or 90s film. Um, that like yeah, so many people I know, Bladeunner and Fifth Element, they would sell so many and it's just the key to successful pinball and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Is there anything you want to say before we finish up or add that we've missed? No, I I appreciate the time. thanks for No, I I appreciate the time. thanks for having me on and just uh I I'm I'm so glad that the custom game homebrew community has kind of gone from the shadowy corner at shows with like one or two games to where it's now the centerpiece of these shows. You know, uh the homebrew booth won best booth at Expo. TPF was incredible. expo was incred the it it it's only getting bigger and I would say that's due to the tremendous amount of resources that that we have that weren't available a couple years ago. So I can't imagine trying to build a game a couple years ago where you didn't have a lot of the boards and the software and the resources. So you see this, you know, tremendous out outpouring of support and resources that allow people with with the time and the creativity to to build these games. So, I I'm just so glad that this game connected with people. I had such a blast uh building it. I had a blast putting it out there and uh um I'm I'm hard at work on uh on the next one. Uh I was going to say exactly what you Uh I was going to say exactly what you said about the homebrew. Uh I mean, the home brew is the foundations of pinball where we are today. A lot of the pinball manufacturers have homebrew guys in there that you know, Elwin and Danger and people that um that's where it all started. And without the community, right, it's all about the community. Where would we be in this hobby? Uh, and it's all about the community growing the hobby and seeing homebrew. Um, I saw like a footage where it panned out and you saw how big the homebrew section was. Uh, and that was really cool because I think it it takes a lot of time and energy and these people have full-time jobs. Um, and they're doing it for nothing. And it's pure about the passion for this crazy hobby that we all like that is extremely expensive and takes up a lot of space. You nailed it. You nailed it. But look, thank you very much. And guys, But look, thank you very much. And guys, look, like and subscribe. Please head over to Cole. You've got a YouTube channel as well that has all your stuff on it, right? Yeah. I mean, I like a couple of videos. Yeah. I mean, I like a couple of videos. I I I don't have a big social media presence, but I did upload my trailers to my YouTube channel. I think I've got like five videos total. So, I'm I'm not a prolific uh social media guy, but uh um yeah, if you want to see those uh those uh trailers, check there. And then a bunch of other folks have streamed the game. Um so, I might do a stream maybe before TPF just to kind of show off some of the new stuff. We'll see. Cool. Cool. All right, guys. Thank you Cool. Cool. All right, guys. Thank you very much. We'll end it there. Like and subscribe. I'll see if I can get someone to come and play this game if you let them come over and see if we can get some content for content for the channel. And uh yeah, we'll we'll take it from there. And uh thank you very much. Uh we'll see you on the flip side. Thanks for having me on.