Hello. What's going on everybody? Welcome to episode 17. It's a good number, a fine number of the Dirty Pool podcast. Uh, today I am pleased to welcome my guest, someone that I've been asking for, God, it's been probably a couple of months now. I think your schedule's just been so busy with so much streaming. Uh, it's Tom, everybody. You probably know Tom from Fox Cities Pinball, uh, and have watched a bazillion of his broadcast, whether it be Papa or Pinberg. Uh, and we're here to talk about tournaments and how to run them.
Sure.
What's up, Tom?
How's it going, Jeff?
I love your background setup. I love that there's a paragon. I love that you've got the the you've got like the eye of Sauron, like the Mordor of of LEDs [ __ ] your
Yeah. Uh let me know. Hopefully we're sounding good. I do have to give a shout out to Tom for having probably the best sounding microphone so far as any guest on the podcast. Um
let's go.
It sounds It sounds like you're in my mind. Um so Fox Cities, let's talk about Fox Cities. Uh, just for people who don't know, where did the name come from? How long have you been streaming? Just give me a little crash course on on Tom's Tom's start of pinball streaming before we get into all the tournaments. Stoof.
Sure. So, uh, actually I live in Appleton, Wisconsin, which is a part of the Fox cities. So, there's a bunch of basic little cities or around the Fox River. That's how the name came up. But we we named our pinball league basically Fox Cities Pinball league and I'm like, "Well, I want to stream, so I'll just steal this from here." And uh there we go.
Do you Does it still represent We're going to stutter for a little bit because I forgot to start the Instagram broadcast. So, I think it I think it's up now for all those for those four or two people or one or no people that like to watch on Instagram.
Just being real with that number. But we do it for him anyways. Uh so Fox Cities started as your local pinball league for it. Were you intending to broadcast the local league and that's where it started from? Or
I was basically just intending to do it from home and it just kind of branched out. I I did some real local tournaments and then District 82 happened and it kind of talked to Eric and was like, "Hey, how about me streaming some tournaments?" And kind of took off from there. So, but uh to say I don't go to district 82 that much. So,
I mean without a doubt like with your Entarium broadcast, I always mess how do I say the name correctly? Is it Entarium?
Yep.
Sweet.
Yep.
Uh yeah, with the local Papa and Pimber broadcast, if you've enjoyed any of that streams, you have Tom to thank for that. One thing that I've noticed about every time that you stream any tournament, you are the chillest goddamn [ __ ] I have ever seen running a tournament. It looks like nothing in the world could bother you.
How?
Uh that is that is just on camera. So, um, the the usually something happens at a tournament like the internet goes out or a camera is not working and I'm probably more freaking out behind the stream the the sorry, the scene uh than than I am in front of the camera. But, uh, on Saturday at Papa, we were actually losing our internet. And I was I I was I was pretty calm about it because I knew I had Andy Bagwell there. Um but it's just one of those things, you know, everybody is like, "Hey, what's going on with your stream? It's stuttering." You know, it's like, "Yep, yep, I know. We're We're trying to fix it. Just kind of try to stay calm." And uh if it wasn't for Andy and really Penny Epstein because we ended up uh using her phone as a hot spot.
Oh, nice.
Uh Yeah, we uh we uh we would have been in trouble. So
there you go. Pro tip. If you're streaming a tournament and your internet's on the fritz, you can you can hot spot the hell out of it in a in a pinch, right?
Yep.
Yep.
Uh we got here my phone cuz I had like two bars, you know, so Wisconsin. Uh Wisconsin.
So what what's the what's the right bar count for an appropriate pinball?
You probably want five. FiveG. You probably want four. Oh, four bars go all the way.
Yeah.
Well, I do I want to give a shout out Dr. John and everyone else who's here uh checking it out live. This is a a real live broadcast. If you have questions for for Tom, I must have said for Fox. Has anybody called you Fox by accident?
Just me.
Uh no, but that's pretty cool. I'll just go by Fox.
We're here with Mr. Fox. Uh the code name code name streamer. Uh so yeah, we're live. Ask questions if you have anything you'd like to know. Part of the whole point of this broadcast today is to help demystify the art of streaming during tournaments. And I think that you are by far the best person to possibly ask right now as somebody who is doing the most tournament streaming I think uh at least mobiley uh that I'm aware of.
Yeah, I would I would say probably right now. I mean there's there's certainly probably better people to ask, but uh I I try my best, you know,
but we're here. But we're here. Okay. So,
so when you clearly you need to have a connection with a facility that's going to host a tournament. So, let's talk about how to begin the process of connecting and making relations with somebody that you want to like actually start. You know, we're starting to have a little stuttering. I'm going to kill I'm going to kill the Instagram stream. Sorry, Instagram. Peace out. It's been real.
See, and this is this is one of the caveats that happens. So, a lot of people ask me like, "Why don't you stream to YouTube, too?" And it just it it's one of those things that like sucks up your bandwidth and uh it's not not something that's reliable. So, you you want something that's reliable for everybody. And because I'm a Twitch partner, uh it just makes it easier basically for people to watch the stream.
Sure. For those who don't know, Tom and I actually staged all of these internet problems specifically to help illustrate this issue. Uh, so that was all Tom's idea. Way to go. Thank you so much, Tom. I really appreciate that.
Perfectly Perfectly executed. Okay, so you need to start a relation with a arcade in order to be able to start rolling aluminum around and and filming stuff. How do you build the relations to start streaming at a tournament? Uh, well, I mean, honestly, you you have to network. So, you have to you have to talk to the location. So, if you're if you're thinking of, hey, I want to stream at your location, uh, first of all, you have to talk to the owner. Uh, ask them if they have internet capabilities. The biggest thing is the upload speed. Uh, you want to make sure they have pretty good upload speeds so that your stream can get to the get to the web.
You say pretty good. You think like 10 15 megabit? Like what would you say is an appropriate amount upload?
I think minimum probably 8 to 10. Uh, depending on, you know, if if especially if you want to do like 1080p. Um, obviously the higher the better. I mean, if you could get 10 to 20, you're probably golden. Um, I I always try to recommend like I I don't always get this, but uh an Ethernet connection to their modem. Uh that is huge. Uh because if you're going over the Wi-Fi, you're going to have drops in the signal and everything. And sometimes it's just you can only do what what's provided.
Sure. you get like a 50 foot network cable and just roll it around with it or
Yeah, I I actually carry a bunch of cables with me and uh yeah, I mean I have a 50 foot Ethernet cable with me. I also have like a connector for like another Ethernet cable just in case. Um but I I carry a lot of stuff around that I don't necessarily need all the time just in case. It's funny how the bag of the like backup bag is always the like most full and never used. Like you'll have like 50 power cables and whatever. Just tons of junk that you never actually pull out of there and then when you need something it's not in the bag.
Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Or you're like sir like I didn't put it away and like in the right spot. So you're like throwing [ __ ] around. So, so learning not being afraid to like meet and and mingle like you've got to get over the fear of talking to somebody that is unknown to you. Would Would you say the first
Oh, yeah. That was the hardest thing for me becoming a streamer was actually opening up and like talking cuz let me tell you is like one of my fears to like public speaking. Like if you got me up in an auditorium, I'd probably be like uh uh and uh I mean I basically did that for like the first 20 episodes of Triple Drain because it scared the crap out of me. But
you're used to talking to people kind of oneon-one, right? Like as a dentist, right? You're sitting there and you make them mingle.
Right. Right. It's my
one on 50, one on 100.
Exactly. Exactly. And you know, I've I've gotten kind of gotten to a point now where I'm just so used to it, it doesn't bother me anymore. So, it's a lot of repetition, a lot of practice.
The fear goes away as soon as you break like that initial kind of wall down. I feel like you're you're good to go.
Exactly. If I did this interview with you three years ago, it would not be the same.
So, you've you've made a connection with somebody. You got a friend. Good. Yay. Good for you. You've got a friend now at an arcade and they're like, "Hey, do you want to set up a streaming rig in here?"
Yep. Yeah. So, you want to make sure basically, like I said, you have first of all the internet, second of all, space, uh, you know, sometimes space is an issue and you want to have at least, you know, enough for table commentators, um, all that good stuff. If you want to make sure if you're going to have a streaming rig, can you get that streaming rig around and move it between the games and is there a low ceiling that's going to prevent you from using it? Just Just certain certain things. It's funny how height is an issue where at Ace, which is our local uh place, it's funny. There's like one like concrete ceiling that is like pretty much exactly the height of the rig and it's like if you have anything attached to the top of the rig like you're not making it underneath there.
Exactly. Are you going to be going through doorways? Like is there multiple doorways to get through that? That's another issue.
All right. So have a path for your thing. I would say like as much as having an announcer table and a commentary table which by the way everybody who is on Fox City is doing commentary is amazing. I Steve Bowen comes to mind off top of my head. I mean just
Oh, absolutely. He's He's legitimately like the best.
It totally I actually got to meet him at the the Stern event whatever last week and uh it was it was like a small bucket list item of mine. So, I'm pretty pretty happy.
Oh, look at that. See, that's a pro move. Put your water bottle in your cup holder in your pinball machine right behind you.
Oh. Uh so, but let's assume that there is no commentator table for this. This is like a tutorial for people that are just like kind of just getting their feet wet instead of diving in whole hog. Um, so you've got an internet connection, you've brought your you've got your uh rig set up, you you know, you've got whatever cameras say you're already used to setting it up.
Sure.
Tournaments mystify a lot of people because as a tournament director, let's assume that you're also the tournament like lead, right? So, you need to be able to explain the rules to people as well as running the camera. That could be an incredibly kind of like intimidating factor. Can Can you break that down into more bite-sized chunks of like what it's like?
Don't be a tournament director and stream at the same time. I can tell you that right off the bat.
So, you need two friends to do this. You need a friend that owns the arcade and you need a second friend that's either going to stream or be the tournament director.
Here's the thing. Because you're the one who's on camera and everybody knows you're streaming, they know where to find you. So if anybody else is helping you, they're not going to go to them. They're going to go to the person where they know where they're located.
You're never going No, no peace of mind. So don't play in the tournament that you're directing is what you're saying.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I'm just saying if you're going to wear multiple hats, just just be ready to not not be uh uh into your game. You're going to be doing other things. You're going to be streaming. You're going to be tding. As soon as you're done with your game, somebody's going be asking you, "Hey, I have a stuck ball. I I need you over here." And then you're like, "Oh, by the way, I have the stream going. I should probably be talking to these people watching the stream, you know?" So, there's
But instead, I'm trying to figure out how to get this ball out of Ghostbusters. Right.
Right. Right.
How the hell did this get stuck? Magnus Stephen Lang obviously that are Slimer Center there.
So when you are a tournament director at a tournament right would you recommend somebody go and set it up officially through IFPA the first time or just try to like have fun with it to get their feet wet
because there's a process for doing an IFPA tournament and I don't think people are familiar with that. And something I do want to plant in your head for later in the stream is how how companies like Stern, and we kind of talked about this in our pre-roll, could do better at helping people get onboarded for doing tournaments because it's a great way for people to get into pinball and interested in playing pinball at home.
I think it depends on what you want to do. So, if you're just looking for I, you know, if you're just looking, hey, I want to get a couple people together, do do a fun tournament, I'd say maybe not necessarily the first time, do the IFPA thing. Um, see how it goes, especially if it's your first time. And then
also, you can have fun playing pinball and it doesn't have to give you Whopper points like
Oh, absolutely. Josh will tell you that, you know, uh you you I mean, but you know, part of the fun is trying to get the whoppers, too. So, but uh
you know, yeah, I mean, you don't necessarily have to run a full-fledged IFPA tournament. Um so, I would say go out, you know, talk talk to the location. If you're like, "Hey, I want to run a tournament." Run it by them first. just don't show up and start running the tournament unless it's just a couple of buddies and you're like, "Hey, let's just go try something new and put ourselves in match play and have some fun."
So, what is the process for running an IFPA tournament for people who don't know?
Yeah. Well, you have to submit to the IFPA. I can't remember if it's 30 or 60 days beforehand. I think it I think it's at least 30, but if if you're going to limit your numbers, I think it has to be 60. I think that's a rule. Uh but uh so so basically you go on the IFBA website, you uh you have to have a a login and then you submit to their calendar basically and you have to give them details, you know, what's uh what type of tournament are you running? uh you know is there going to be a finals all all this all basically I you have to have a plan together before you you go there and submit basically
and and one to two months ahead of time and not just not just like a tomorrow plan that we're talking way in the future. So plan way ahead. You're going to do your tournament. You're thinking two months ahead
at least. I would say, like I said, I haven't submitted in a while and mainly I've been doing submissions for just our our league, which I have to plan out a year in advance. So, um, our Foxy's pinball league. So, all all that is just, uh, you know, pre-planned. Sure. This password I could say.
So, so you have to one, you need to be able to make a password and remember it. So, if you're a person who doesn't know how to remember passwords, going on the IFA website, probably not for you. Maybe, maybe hosting tournament
great for removing remembering passwords.
Okay, so get an iPhone, get two friends. I'm just going down the checklist here. We got to remember all this.
Okay, so we'll say that you've set up the IFPA. All right, it's tournament day, right?
How do you decide the format for running the tournament? you do match play.
Well, hopefully you did that before, but fair you got you got to do it beforehand. So, but you're you're I'd recommend using match play. Match play is probably the best and easiest way to run a tournament. Uh you know, there's there's just so many so many variations. You know, you can you can run a strike tournament. You can decide if it's you want to do a three strike, four strike, 10 strike, whatever. um matt just a regular match play tournament with the finals. It's It's basically all there. You know, if you run want to run a pinolf tournament, it's all there.
Would you would you recommend match play as a format for a starting tournament? There are so many different types. Let's just stick to one that you think is the best format for it and then if you could go in and describe both like what it's like to talk the rules through two people and then also what the actual rules are for that.
Sure. I think I think the easiest thing is like just direct match play. You have four people to two to a game and basically those four people play play out. Uh I what I would do is probably schedule if I was going to do a night, I'd probably schedule five rounds of match play and then uh basically randomly put people into the matches and then have them uh play out the five rounds. So basically match play is controlling everything. It's controlling uh basically a match play. You put you put the players in, you put the games in, and match play just magically just puts everybody together.
And there's and there's points assignment for it, right? It's a 7531, I think, is the the normal format.
That's usually the standard. You can you can pick whatever one is in there. I mean, there's there's tons of variations, but but 7531 is the pretty much the standard
and people can understand like you just you you get first place, you get more points than someone who gets last place and the people that have the most points get to go on to finals or quarterfinals. Once you once you finish your five uh your five games, is it a cuto off? Are there is there a finals involved in it? Uh with direct match play actually even with IFPA you do not have to have a playoffs. Um so it doesn't Yeah.
So no but maybe yes.
The best kind of answer
probably an easier one too might be a strikes tournament. Um, I find the problem with strikes tournaments though is like if if somebody's coming a long ways, you know, you you get, let's say you do a three strike, you have uh you get you play three games, you lose three games, you're done.
You're done. Yeah. So, for those who don't know, for strikes tournament, you play uh one you play two two players, one-on-one, and if you lose on the game, you just you get a strike. And who as soon as you recruit three strikes, you are no longer in the tournament. So, it's kind of like if you get paired up with like three Carls back to back, you're pretty much done for the day.
You're done.
Yeah. Carl D'Python Anghelo is going to probably beat you.
Yeah. He's going to hand you your ass. He'll be nice about it, but
I I think those tournaments are nice. Like, if you have a limited amount of time and like you're just like, I want to get these people out of my house. Yeah. Strikes tournament.
Strikes is good. And I think speed is a good, you know, you should pick a tournament format that doesn't burn people out. Like people don't want to show up to their first tournament as an introduction to pinball and play 14 hours. It's 4 in the morning. They're like, "Why am I still at this person's house that I've never met before?" Like, yeah. So, um,
yeah, probably not a good introduction to pinball.
No. No. All right. So, we're running our tournament now, and this is a good segue. Tracy has a pretty good question, which I had to read a few times to break it down, but I think I got it now. Tracy, tell me if this is right. So, you're broadcasting it, too. How do you make sure that you're streaming games that are both interesting to people, you're not just following, you know, ZMAC around, you know, you're trying to keep it uh interesting so that the people that you're recording both you have something to talk about when they're playing and also it gives everyone kind of a fair opportunity to be on stream if they want to.
Yeah, that that's that's a hard question to ask cuz
I'm all about hard questions.
Yeah, that's all right. I mean, typically what I'll do is in the beginning of the tournament, I'll try to stay away from players like ZMAC, although he might get mixed in there. Um, just to basically because I know I'm going to probably be streaming him later, so try to get others involved. The The only caveat is some pe some people don't want to be on the stream. And that's that's a hard thing, you know, cuz a lot of times you don't know unless they physically come out and say to you, I do not want to be on the stream.
How do you handle that? Are you like, we're trying to make pinball for everybody?
You know, I used to be I used to be worse at it. I guess I'd be like tough. No, I I guess I've been in situations before where I didn't want to be on the stream and you know because I was nervous and if you're going to play in a highle tournament, you just kind of got to get over it.
Um
you make them sign Fox City's paperwork before they get on stream. H. No, but usually usually like uh at Entarium it it'll say like people probably don't read it, but in the rules it'll say like you know you're if if you're you're basically committing to be on the stream if you're signing up for this tournament. Um but
but even though it says that, it's like you can't force somebody.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean I I've we've literally had people like have physical meltdowns. Um, and obviously I'm not going to name any names or anything, but uh it, you know, you don't want to see that either. So like if it's going to cause somebody mental distress,
we don't want that. But at the same time,
so don't put the rig on their game,
right?
Yeah. So then, you know, you're trying to not put them on on the stream and and but problem is what if that person makes the finals, you know, it's like, well, we can't stream finals.
Yeah. At that point, you pretty much have to,
right?
Yeah. Like, I'm sorry, you're in finals and we need to show this to everybody,
right?
You know,
Nuclear Black says, "Witness protection pinball." That's pretty funny.
Yeah. I mean, and you know, somebody had brought it to my attention like, you know, what if what if somebody's, you know, significant other was uh, you know, out to get them or something, you know, and was trying to stalk them. And I I think the way we came around that was uh we we just turned off the camera when the player was on and and the player was fine with that.
So, but Okay. I you know I guess you know situations happen. You just gota you got to fly with it.
And such a thing as pinball drama
chat
is there pinball drama? Hell yeah.
There's drama drama everywhere in this uh there's probably drama in you know every facet of life. But
u of course there is. Of course there is.
I was I was being sarcastic a little bit. It's kind of hard not to avoid drama with pinball, which is weird because, you know, everybody gets into pinball, I think, for the most part, with the best intentions and just having a good time.
Of course, it's it's supposed to be fun.
Yes. You know,
thank you for saying that, Tom.
Yeah.
Even in a tournament setting, you should be if you're not having fun and you're playing a tournament, you're either being too hard on yourself or you're playing a lot of Jurassic Park. And I'm sorry.
I I'll be honest. I'm a good example. I mean, there are times where I have meltdowns. I have I'm like in like somebody just punched me in the gut cuz I just had a house ball, you know? I mean, it happens. We're if you're playing competitively, you know, most of us are taking it somewhat serious, you know? Sure. You know, so,
uh,
taking it serious is okay, but taking it where you're either hurting yourself or killing killing the vibe of people around you. I'm not going to go put my hand through a door. Let's Let's just say that. Or Or I'm not going to put my foot through a locked out or a a coin door, you know, is that that that's just uncalled for. But
yeah, although I found out at Ace, if you hit the coin box a little bit, sometimes you can get free credits out of it. So, if you don't want to pay for your games at Onail, just give the coin box a bit of a bump.
Pro tip, you tell Shane I gave you those free games. He'll be he'll be stoked about that.
He'll love that. Uh, do you think, so we're talking about people playing it. Do you think that people playing kind of feed off your energy? Like are you like are you do you pretty much have to provide a performance for the entire night to make sure that everybody is like
having a good time?
God, I hope.
I mean, but seriously, your responsibilities are go beyond just streaming, right? Like what do you think are the most unknown responsibilities for for running a for running a tournament? Uh, god for running a tournament. I mean, you do have to put on like a happy face the entire time. I I really feel for like people like Eric Thorne at District 82. I mean I mean and he's very bubbly and welcoming and man I I couldn't imagine like having to you know run a tournament, fix games, take out the garbage, find a time to eat while running a 15-hour tournament. I mean that's uh that I I couldn't do that, you know. I I
I physically do that. I do. I do with streaming. Streaming is fun for me though. Like it is I except when the internet goes down then it's not fun. But
yeah, get you a 5G phone though at that point, right?
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But no, I mean it it's uh it's fun. I mean it and I want it to be fun for others, you know, but I doing the mobile streaming, I couldn't do it without everybody's help, you know, commentators and such. I mean, it's easy to move the rig around, but
people that
want to commentate.
Sure. And you run a tournament at some of the largest tournaments in the world. So, you've got people that are either other streamers or they're they've been in the scene for for super long. I mean Bowen as an example. I mean you've been doing it for decades. I remember watching him do commentary on Papa back in when Papa was at its own facility before the flood and before the all the other pinball drama that went down for that.
U but it's nice to have it takes a village I guess is my point, right?
Absolutely 100%.
So you what do you do to handle malfunctions in a situation like that? Right. So we're we've framed we framed it, right? We found a friend
tournament director
as as the guy who's streaming. You know, it's kind of your tournament in our little hypothetical like tournament world that we've created, right? We've got our two friends, you know, we've got our streaming rig. We found a location to go to. We're streaming right now. We know which people not to stream and which people to stream because somebody's in the witness protection program, right? But now, you know, let's just say like, for example, what game should I pick to say is broken? I'm not I can't I can't do this. You have to pick a game for me.
All right. Uh, what game breaks?
Uh, what game commonly breaks? Uh, oh, like, uh, I I'll use an American game. Hot Wheels.
Hot Wheels. That's an excellent choice.
We'll just say we'll just say
So, Hot Wheels stops working. What a surprise. Uh, how do you handle it now? You're You're mid game, you're mid-stream. Like, how do you divert your duties to make sure that thing that you know the show must go on kind of thing?
Yeah. I mean, when it comes to a game, I mean, it's more a tournament director's responsibility. So, kind of like that's not my hat. It's like I I guess I'm going with the players, the tournament director, and being like, "Hey, this game's not working." And either they're going to have a tech or themselves fix it or they're going to have to pick a new game. So, you know, it that's just that's just pinball. And I didn't mean to pick on Hot Wheels. I just I just know there's one on a location near me that like the lights never work.
Well, everyone everyone in chat is pointing out that Twilight Zone died at Papa. So, we could use Twilight Zone as an example, too.
Yeah, that's a great example. So, Twilight I'm talking to my Twilight Zone, which is right there.
I I think it had multiple issues, too. like uh like I I remember like the right lane switch wasn't working right or there was something like that.
It's usually the power ball detector uh like magnet wine that's always breaking on Twilight.
It didn't have a physical power ball in it. It was just it was set to like recognize like I think it was like every odd time it went the gumball machine it was it would
start Powerball Mania.
Schwank says his Twilight Twilight Zone near him reboots. Well, that's probably the 5V. There's a a little thingy dingy you can get to help stabilize that
or your capacitors are going pretty bad or the rectifiers. Those are the three things you should check if your if you're WPC is rebooting.
So, hope hopefully you have a good tech. Otherwise, hopefully you have more games to play than Twilight's. So, and like the techs at uh like Papa were freaking amazing. Like they were
I can't imagine how they couldn't be. That's like essentially the Olympics of of pinball kind of, right?
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. All those big major events.
How many pins is the minimum for hosting a tournament? Let's Let's assume that we're also the tournament director.
Really depends on player. So like I guess if you're going to run a small like let's just say you have eight players, I'd say you probably want four games. Four games to at least make it fun. So
that seems totally doable for a lot of small collectors, right?
Yep. Yep. I think if you go to 16, you probably want to have six or eight, you know? So 16, you're going to have at least four player groups. So you want to you you want to have a good mix. I mean, most and most like pinball locations will have at least like eight games, I would say. You know, like the bigger ones. So your tournament wraps the bigger ones are going to have huge huge numbers. But
well, it's funny you say that because one of the other questions I kind of skipped it, but because we we touched base on it, but what what are the challenges for tournament directors as these events get bigger? Because Papa and Pimber like I I guess I'll feed this as like a leading question here is that people that are playing with card purchases, right? Like can it can go a long time and people can burn a lot of cards. And of course, like you know, if you get lucky and blow up and have an amazing card, you're in to go. but somebody who's just having a bad day. How do you keep the concept of participating in it fair and be able to allow the people that want to play in it to play in it? Cuz there's only a limited number. How many people were in Papa this year as an example?
I want to say like 270.
So somewhere in the So a couple hundred, right? But I'm sure that there were way more submissions for that, right? And there was a criteria in order to get in.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. Um, I mean, how do you how do you keep people throwing cards at at the thing or are you asking like how do you keep people interested in it?
The as the tournaments get larger, how do you keep it fair for the people that can participate in it as well as keep it like mindful of the time because tournaments can't go, you know, like it's people can only get up so early and go so late before it's like no longer fun, I guess.
Sure. I mean, it's a hard question to answer. Um, I mean with that that many players. The cool thing about Papa was is I mean it's it's kind of a cool thing kind of a not cool thing because of timing, but 72 people get in. So like I think right now that's the largest amount of players that actually make a finals. So I I think like for somebody like me it's like oh 72 players I can do that you know whereas like if I go to indisc and there's
I think there was like 390 players or something crazy like that.
Um that's a lot at the last that's a lot and it was like top top 40
like that is a lot harder.
Yeah but you got a Carl at that point and he runs what is it Drains tournament manager so he's got his own play in it though.
Yeah, he's cuz that just shows it takes
streaming.
Exactly. It's a full-time scenario
in order to do it. Um
that's crazy. It's funny that you say, "Oh man, 72 people I can take care of that, man. If I had to do a tournament with like more than 30 people, it would be code brown. Let me tell you, that means I [ __ ] my pants."
Yeah. So, I mean I guess if it just depends on I guess it it depends on the player. Like if you're a casual player, your your first tournament probably shouldn't be a major in my my view, but uh you know, maybe you're maybe you're like, I'm I'm really good at my home game, so I really want to try it. I I don't see anything wrong with that. But I mean, getting uh getting some tournament experience at like your local tournaments, your bar tournaments is I I think it's a good way to start. So, I I don't know necessarily think I would go to like a major tournament as like my first tournament, you know, kind of thing.
For sure.
But,
um we touched base a little bit on
certainly wouldn't run a card format as like your first tournament.
Yeah. Right. how to make yourself have the worst headache possible unnecessarily.
Um,
so for in terms of quantity of tournaments where we talked about this a little bit at the beginning, like how could manufacturers do better at helping people kind of like participate in tournaments and be involved in tournaments? Like is there anything like a company like I'll I'll say Stern because Stern's got the most initiative with Insider and Stern Army and all this. Stern is probably the best example because they just pump out games and you know um but I I think I think they Stern had the uh the heads up thing going and I really liked that cuz it it reminded me of Carl's ping Slash. So is very similar to that. So, in ping class, you had objectives to do. And I think I think trying to get the rules down on these modern machines, you really have to break things down for people as especially somebody who's not like us who's into who's really into pinball. So, if if you know it, I'll take Jaws for instance. If If I'm a person who's never played pinball, probably not going to know what I'm doing on Jaws when I first put a quarter in, you know? I mean, you can follow the flashing lights, but you're like, what what am I shooting at?
And the paper card does not give enough info, right? We talked about that.
Me personally, I know people will say that, but I I don't think so. I I think I think you need like an info. Like it would be cool if Stern had like actual videos of like somebody explaining just simple objectives like, "Hey, this is how you start multiball on this game." And then, you know, it could go through like the inserts and and everything else. It has those preliminary videos that play on the on the screen, but they could take that and make a bigger video of it.
Right.
Right. Like what you're saying.
Exactly. Ba basically like a tutorial, you know, like that. That's That's how I feel. Like a basic tutorial video on the screen. You have the LCD right there. It's too bad Stern doesn't have like somebody that like came from streaming and like knows how to do like video and animation that could be like a resource to help
be awesome if some of these videos
do something like that
or someone that also worked at Marco that's used to doing like tech videos that could like probably team up and provide really good tutorials for people. They should hire people like that.
Exactly. you know, hopefully. Uh I I mean, that would be an awesome thing for like Kyle and Jack to do together. I mean, hell, I would I would go down there and help. I mean, honestly, I would. I I mean, I understand it. It's another thing to add to the game. And I mean, let's be honest, on most of the games, they're they're behind on the code coming out as it is,
you know. So, so you think that having rules education would be a step in the right direction for getting more people to be less afraid to participate in tournaments? I just want to make sure I understand because we were talking about how Stern could get more people into
tournaments.
I think tournaments and pinball in general.
Sure.
I mean, I I think both, you know, I I think I think you have to understand the rules, you know. I mean, we're not talking baseball here.
No, for sure. You know, every game is different and and you know, yes, I think most of us who are pinball enthusiasts, we we can figure things out just by looking at the playfield and playing the game a few times. Whereas somebody else,
right, where somebody else who's
maybe never played a pinball machine before and they're putting a dollar in trying to figure it out, you know,
right?
It I mean, they have a QR code on Star Wars. I noticed on the new one and I don't remember there being a QR code to scan and I and I don't know what it does, but I'm wondering if what an easy opportunity for them to have like a a tutorial video built in that you just scan on your phone cuz everyone's got their phone at tournaments. You spend whatever a minute, minute and a half if they can compress it that quick to get like a crash course on how to play the game
or right on Insider Connect. Now, they do have instructions on Insider Connect, but honestly, if you're you've never touched a pinball machine before, are you going to know to go to that and look up?
It says shoot the orbits. Like, what is an orbit for someone who's never played pinball before?
Right. I mean, I think it would just be cool like you have, you know. Okay, so they have those videos on there which which are awesome, but wouldn't it be cool if like while those videos are going, you actually have like the the insert flashing like this is where you shoot for this,
you know, this is where you shoot for that, you know, kind of thing. I, you know, I think the rules have just gotten so complicated from the B Williams days. I mean, would you agree with that, Jeeoff? Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, look at games like I don't know, pick any John Papadiuk game or any like mid90s like I don't know, we'll take BSD, we'll take Dracula for example, right? Like the the mode stacking is fairly like unique at the time for that to try to get all your multiballs running at the same time, but scoring has gone from being kind of like a linear uh endeavor where you try to set up the best possible scenario and keep hitting that shot or whatever for points in an older '90s game. Whereas now, you know, look at Godzilla for example, where you could, you know, build up your destruction bonus and multipliers through many different paths where you could go to Planet X. Like you could really acquire points in bizarre abstract ways now almost when playing modern pins. Um, which is either I don't know if that's good or bad. Like there's something nice about a comfort zone game like u Denise's uh Total Total Nuclear Annihilation is a good example of a game that's like not over complicated in terms of a rule set but immediately entertaining and satisfying.
Absolutely. 1,00% on that one. You know, it's very very easy to understand that game. you know, you're locking balls, you're hitting, you're hitting the It's easy to teach somebody who maybe doesn't know pinball, like, "Hey, just do this and do that.
Send the ball up top and destroy reactors."
I think companies like Stern, JJP, I think for the most part, modern companies now are stuck trying to make games that are more innovative and more complicated than the previous game. And yeah, I mean it's it's more geared towards the the home environment, you know,
right? And what they've acknowledged is like 70% now of the market, which is pretty big change than back in the 80s and 90s, I would imagine. I don't know what those numbers were,
which don't get me wrong, that's what I want. I I love the deep rule sets. I'm not saying that, but you know, it's just more so how do we get new people involved? you know, h how are they going to understand what we understand?
I don't envy any pinball manufacturer, and this is very true of the new Star Wars, right? I didn't want to make this a Star Wars stream since I've already talked enough about that game over the past couple of days, but it is a good example of they're trying to make a game appease new people that want to get into pinball, but also have it be interesting and deep enough for veterans and people that love Star Wars. And you cannot make you're going to disappoint somebody no matter what. And
if there's one thing pinball people love to do, it's it's be disappointed and complain about it. So,
true, true.
Uh, El Roco says, "Hi, Tom. What a treat." I agree, man. It is a treat. I'm glad you're here, dude.
Thanks, Elco. It's good seeing you, Papa.
Uh, here's a good question uh or a good statement from a new a first time chatter old Macintosh. What's going on? And he says, "Some of these rules are too deep for him or her, not to be assumptions here, or deeper than I have the patience to learn. They want to play pinball and not learn some choose your own adventure book where I need to do events in the exact same sequence." So, you know, there's an example of someone who's would be frustrated by that and probably would like, you know, a game that's immediately accessible like the new Star Wars. But for someone who's spending 12 grand or something on a game that's going to be in their home for maybe a really long time that if it's too simple a game, you're going to get bored of it quick. And then, you know, was your money really well spent at that point? That's
and that and that's the beauty of some games like, you know, there's there's the easy stuff to do and then there's kind of the mediumish stuff and then there's the wizard mode stuff, you know. Um, and I think you got to have a good balance of that. And if it's if it's not understandable, at least the basics in the first, you know, the the first time you're plunging, then what are we really doing? What are we trying to accomplish?
What game would you say is a great entry kind of like gateway drug to pinball? Something that is
You're going to ask me that.
Um,
well, we kind of we derailed from the tournament stuff. We can go back there.
I know. I I think I think something like Attack from Mars.
Spider-Man.
Yeah.
Uh like Spider-Man was the first game I bought new in box and like I just I like couldn't stop playing it. I I loved it so much. But like the rules on that game are fairly easy to understand.
Sure.
You know,
you get your fun mode hacking and the doc shot super fun to hit.
Yep.
So I get it. And like like Attack from Mars, you you know you got to hit you know you got to hit the uh the saucer, you got to hit the bank down, hit the saucer. Easy to do. Easy enough to do everything. All the other shots are like three shots and then you can get Total Nuclear Annihilation.
So it's funny you said that right when Orbital Albert said TNA. Everybody is agreeing in chat that AFM is like the go-to game for for learning stuff. He also said the Beatles, which is basically Sea Witch with old spinny disc on it,
right? Yeah, Beatles is like but but for me like Beatles Beatles is very easy to understand but it doesn't have it it didn't have longevity for me because it doesn't have that deeper stuff you know it's just kind of like you're so like but it's a good entrylevel game for somebody
and a really fun layout but I mean it is you know there you're seeing a game that was you know from the when was se like late 70s early 80s it's got to be system I guess it wasn't system 9 it's a stern game but regardless It's It's an early game, so you're getting that layout of an early game, which the problem with classics, in my opinion, is that you can frequently just master the shot that's needed, and then all of a sudden that game is now no longer as fun in your inventory as as say a game that has a lot more complicated shots and complicated rules. Um, but
I I love like Iron Maiden, how you know there there's like you you have your set of modes, but you also have this like side quest where you do you got to hit X number of ramps, switches, you know, orbits, etc. I I think when, you know, Keith and Co did that game, it was just brilliant.
Yeah. and he carried that concept over to to Jaws with, you know, capturing all the different sharks, which has so similar mechanic, even though that those are a lot more achievable since they're, you know, supposed to do it multiple times uh in a single session at least. Right.
Right.
Right.
Um All right. So, we talked a little bit about how Stern could now I'm I'm reeling us back. That was a Jaws joke. Get it reeling.
Sorry. Uh, you talked about that they could make better tutorials to help people learn how to play the games better, right? How could how could Stern help connect people with tournaments or at least getting people more into playing pinball on location? Cuz I think people that buying a pinball machine is expensive. I don't know if you knew that pinball machines are not cheap. So, but you know what is cheap is putting a 50 cents or a dollar or more if your oper if your operator is a huge [ __ ] uh into a game and being able to experience it to enjoy pinball and or make a decision about buying a game in the future. So, how could Stern help make that happen better?
Wizard Beard just said one ball one is your tutorial. It's not a bad idea.
He comes from the Steve Ritchie get good just play better kind of camp, right? Wizardbeard is probably Steve Ritchie in disguise right now. I know who you are, Wizardbeard.
Like I said, like uh I I just think I think the heads up was just such a good idea as far as like I said, when when Jurassic Park first came out, I was pretty lost on that game, honestly. Um I didn't know basic strategies. I still see people that play in tournaments don't know the basic strategies of that game. Um, and doing the ping Slash is what actually helped me. You know, Carl had like a list of objectives. So, you know, that if somehow they can get that into the game somehow.
I I got it. I got it.
What's that?
They already have their achievements in there. There could be a set of tutorial achievements that you need to acquire when you get your game and they could be prompted front and center on on the screen when you log in with Insider Connect. Like, have you done the tutorial achievements yet?
Yeah, that's a fantastic idea. I mean, honestly.
Yep.
And then that way then you can learn how to start multiball or whatever.
Obviously, that could be something selective, you know. No, I don't want to do that. I'll I'll play the game. Or Or you could like turn it off in the settings or something. But
I'm not an achievement person. I can't
I can't stand achievements to be honest. But I I respect that there's people out there that like to collect their badges and stuff like that. And uh you know, I do see the I see the logic behind having that system there. But hey, why not use it like you're saying to like kind of h you know, create a t tutorial level situation?
Yeah. Like for me personally, the badges really don't do anything for me.
I mean, you know, they just pop up on the screen and I'm like, "Oh, I did that.
That's cool."
You know,
it's like when you play your first game on a game that you've never played before and you have an incredible ball and then the person behind you is waiting 30 minutes for their achievements to stop. Yeah.
There needs to be there should be a term for that when you like achievement bomb somebody or something. Maybe chat can come up with a good like term for a a pro player like bombing the hell out of a game the first time.
Um,
but but like you were saying, I mean that reminds me of like when I had like a Wii controller and it's like, okay, you got to do this to like do this on the game. Like this this is a punch. So like you had to you had to throw a punch in the beginning of a game and you know this is how you use the controller to like whip somebody. you know that that's kind of what I think is needed for pinball. If you want to truly get people that aren't enthusiasts into playing pinball, I think that would be a good start. But that's just me.
When someone has a fun game, they love pinball.
Yes.
And when they don't, they don't like pinball.
Right.
So knowing what you're doing aligns perfectly with what you're saying. But are they actually physically understanding what they did? I mean, I've literally had people be like, "I don't know what I just did there, but that was awesome." You know, and and you're like, "Okay, well, I know what you did, but
yeah, you did amazing, but you don't know what you did."
Uh, we've got a we got a few good suggestions. Uh, you could call them badge grab. That's a good term for it.
Bad grab.
Machine terminator. That's a That's pretty ominous, but sure. Flipronic says they're called tryhards. Ouch. I'm not sure about that. Um, okay. So, that's fantastic. Stern, if you're watching this, that would be great. It's not a mean criticism. It's just you have so many resources to make some better, you know, onlineing videos to help people get into it, you know.
Yep.
Please apply some of that. Um, I think that's pretty much all on my list here. I guess where where do you see Fox Cities growing in the next couple of years? I mean, now you've already streamed two of the biggest majors in the world.
That's what else are you going in?
Hard to grow from here. We're going to be uh I will be back at District 82 and I'll be doing the uh IFPA 21. So, that's really exciting.
Awesome.
So, that's that's like the invitational. You got to get invited to it. And
where is that going to be at Entarium? Where's the IP 21?
That's going to be at district. Cool.
That's going to be in June.
So, there's a lot of good pinball coming up. Are you excited for Expo?
Yeah. Be streaming that, too.
Awesome. Awesome. Uh I would love to to say hi in person. I will be there. Uh it is my first expo. Everybody keeps telling me to go to the uh pinball Olympics. What is what is your suggestion to do for a first- timer at expo? I have never done Pinball Olympics, but and that's mainly because I'm streaming and I can't go to it, but if I was, I would definitely do that. Um, you've you've obviously done the Stern tour, right?
I have the first time during the Star Wars trip. It was
That's a big ass building. Holy [ __ ]
Oh, yeah. yeah.
Yeah. I did a video of it. You can see it on my YouTube. #selfplug. If I was going to Expo and never did the tour, I would definitely do the tour. You have to do the tour. Uh, and then it's just like meeting people, playing new games. Like, don't be afraid to talk to people. I mean, that that's that's the hardest thing. And, you know, I mean, if if you see me walking by, say hi. It's cool. You know, if I run past you, it's not because I'm being rude. It's because I either have to move the stream or I'm playing. So, um, you know. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just just go to Expo, check it out, breathe it in.
Breathe it in.
Absorb Absorb as much of it as possible.
Yes.
Uh, Dr. John has a pretty good question. Shout out uh to Australia. Uh, he says, "Have you ever had to remove somebody from commentating for being too drunk?"
Too drunk. I don't think I've ever had to do that. Maybe I have and I don't remember, but I've definitely had to have people removed from the booth that were necessarily not not invited to be in the streaming booth. And it was like,
which you can't police if you're out moving the game around. You were moving the rig around, right?
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it it's uh some people think it's like an an open area and it's technically not. Um but
depending on where you can set up the table, right?
Well, and I'm not saying cuz there's people I trust like, yeah, just go in there if you're available. It's cool, you know? But like if I've never talked to you before, it's probably not a good thing to come in my booth if I don't know you.
Okay, if you're if you're watching and you're at a major and you've never met Tom, don't go sit in the booth and talk about pinball. I can see how inviting that might be. Those chairs are probably super super comfortable.
They are most of the time.
Uh Enzo, I'm just seeing this now. I realized I didn't have the the multi chat pulled up. So, if you were been talking to me on YouTube, I apologize. Uh Enzo's here. We he did an interesting uh uh talk with Carrie about uh the Star Wars yesterday or something. Anyways, he's asking you what your favorite Rush song is.
Oh, there's too many. There's way too many. I'd probably say Red Baretta.
There you go.
That's probably my favorite. Oral Albert says
Oral Albert says that he poked his head into the booth once when when he hadn't met you before at District 82 and he's apologizing for it.
I'm like, get out of here. No.
Can you guys make amends now?
Yeah. No, he's he's fine.
Orbital Albert, you're good, man. Thomas forgiven you. You have been forgiven.
I streamed you for like a whole nine holes at Pin Master.
There you go. Nobody forgives like a dentist. Remember that. Um, do you think that being a dentist has helped your uh like dexterity in terms of like flipper skills?
I'm like I'm not a dolphin. This is my best like damn it.
Clip it.
Not Not at all. I'd say like hand eye coordination probably like video games and pinball go maybe hand in hand, but uh it's definitely different to you know pin pinball man. There's There's so many like little tricks you can do with the ball and you know sometimes in the moment you just like why didn't I live catch that? What was I thinking? You know like or I should have postp passed over. Why Why didn't I do that? You know it's hindsight. Watching yourself on stream is fun too if you're afraid to be on camera. It really is satisfying. I remember the first time uh it was I think the X-Men launch party at Ace. Carl had set up uh heads up with uh uh it was you know objective based what the hell is it called where you have to get specific like things done.
Yeah.
Literally just talked about this and I can't remember the name.
Yeah. It's like it's like the pin Slash. Uh
yeah Slash. The head headtohead stuff.
So it was it was headtohead and he had picked a bunch of objectives that helped us learn X-Men. All the things that you're talking about and uh yeah I got to play live and went home and watched it and was just like why the hell did I do this and that? like it really helps you kind of like observe your your play in a more pressured environment to play better. So,
ping ping golf. Ping golf is fun. I mean, ping golf pingolf's one of those things like it's fun if you're doing well, but not so fun if you're not. I mean, I guess that's like any tournament setting, but it's it's always it's always fun if you play in a pinolf tournament and like everybody else is doing good and you're like plunging their balls away. It's like the plunge the plunges of shame.
I love plunging shame every day. Misled, I have a great I can answer this question for you, Misled. MLED is asking, "How can I stop bricking on Led Zeppelin?" Don't play Led Zeppelin. That's the easiest way to not break on it.
Led Zeppelin. Uh like so I I mean I I have my strategy for Led Zeppelin. My strategy is Cashmere and uh just stay in Cashmir.
No. Well, it would help if I clicked the right button instead of sending us to the the Nether world. So stay in Kashmir. That's the that's the move.
Stay Stay in Kashmir. Get multiballs going. You'll You'll have a good time. Keep the ball alive. Uh, I've been I've been saving this one for a little bit. Uh, if you had to pick a perfect lineup out of these games, just going to throw a bunch of random games at you. I want you to tell me, sir.
No, no. I'm going to give you the list of games. I'm going to give you a list of games. I want you to pick the best lineup you can out of this that you could run a tournament with.
All right. Let me think.
Raven. And as a bonus, we're gonna throw a fourth game in here because you said that you need at least four games for a good tournament lineup.
Raven.
It's Raven.
Oh boy. Um I haven't played Raven in a long time, but I do remember it being at a tournament. I think it was a pingolf tournament. I think it was at Mad Roland. This was a long time ago. I mean, it's fine. I mean,
Raven's not a great game. No, but it it wouldn't be like my go-to game, that's for sure. But
is Raven a good tournament game? Let's Let's touch base on this and then we'll then we'll wrap it up. I realize we're pushing this is long. I appreciate you taking the time.
Played it that much. So I I mean I can't really say like
Well, so then let's talk about the concept like there's a some games even though they're not maybe they're they're good home games, they're not good tournament.
Oh, thank you Albert. Look at that man. Thank you for the bitties. I really appreciate it, my dude. Thank you so much. Uh he's hype training our stream, our podcast.
Excellent.
Let's go. Choo choo. The horn of Gondor. Uh
that hype going.
So like for example, like Godzilla is not a good tournament game. Like it's just nobody wants to wait 45 minutes for someone to play on it, right? Whereas I would say TNA is like an excellent tournament game.
Depends on the setup. So like you you can set up Godzilla to be a good tournament game. You got to tweak that upper flipper uh so it's a real bastard.
Like remove it. Could you like Have you thought about just removing a flipper from a game?
Set it up so it's like hard to shoot with it and like sends the ball in bad spots then. But then
God damn it, Jeff. Stop clicking the wrong buttons.
Uh okay. So, even a game that is potentially long playing and really like you would assume would be not a good choice could be set up interesting.
You just have to set it up hard.
What's the meanest thing you've done to a game to make it hard?
Probably like remove gates from like Robo War. I mean, that's not fun. That's fun.
Oh my god, Enzo. Jesus Christ. Thank you so much, man. What a That's a ginormous super chat. Enzo just sent a $31. It has an A in front of it. That might be Australian dollars. So that might only be like a 45cent super chat. So I don't I don't know what the conversion is on that, but Enzo, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. Yeah, we are we are monetized now. YouTube does the YouTube thing. So uh I appreciate it. It'll pay for my ticket to go to Chicago and might meet all the fine people at Expo, like Tom,
who I'm going to grab when he's running past me with something really important to do.
Um All right, Tom. I again I want to thank you so much for your time. Uh as we usually wrap up here anybody if you've got any questions please fire away. Also Tom please take the floor. If you've got any interesting events that you want to plug I know you talked about IFPA but if you got anything cool coming up send it.
Uh in the beginning of October so first weekend of October I will be in St. Louis for the St. Louis Pinball Area Pinball Championship, also known as Slap C, which is going to be at the Pinball Company, which my good friend Travis and company are putting on.
Nice.
So, uh, I'm going there.
Travis does amazing tutorial videos when new games come out. It's a good resource for if you want to learn how to do a launch party.
Yeah, shout out to learned how to play some of my games in my house because of Travis and those tutorials. So definitely check those out.
True.
How many machin do you own? Like it um so I think I have 34 in my basement right now and I have five in my basement at work. So 39 machines.
Wait, what is a I don't want to ask what a dentist basement got going on down there. Maybe.
So this is just that's for a different stream. Uh, this is my small room.
Although that you have a small room and a big room.
One of my bigger rooms only has four games in it. So,
Orbital Albert wants to know if you could beat Joel if you were drunk and he was sober.
No, No, I can't be Joel. Oh, can I
I've seen Joel play. I think you know.
Yeah, probably. Actually,
everybody makes fun of me.
He has beat me at pinball. I mean, he has beat me at a few games. I'm not going to lie. But it's usually when he's talking to me and like, "Oh, look, Tom. Look, Look, look at the bl Look at the ball there." You know, he's he's just being annoying Joel. So,
everybody gets lucky sometimes, right?
Exactly.
Enzo's dropping a Seinfeld reference. He's saying that I'm an anti- dentite.
There you go.
What can I say?
Got Yeah, that it's fine. I love Seinfeld. It's a great show.
Do you think they should make a Seinfeld pinball machine?
I would probably buy it.
Would you do like Three Ravens and a Seinfeld would be your tournament lineup?
I don't know about that.
All right, with that, thank you everybody. Uh again, I appreciate uh I hope you've learned about setting up tournaments. And if you have any questions, Tom said you can call his home phone line. I'll put that in the description. Uh in other events,
call my office. I will kill you. That's amazing. Don't do that. Don't be a bad pinball person and call people on their personal stuff. Uh unless you're Ian because Ian gives out his personal phone number for pinball help if you buy an Ellie version of his Nudge magazine. Yeah, I called it the Ellie version. By the way, that by the way, you should
message me on on Facebook Messenger is probably the easiest way to get a hold of me. If I don't get to you in a few days, it means I'm really busy probably streaming a tournament or something. in my life is busy. So, but I will eventually get back to you or I'm playing in the tournament.
Of which case you should be watching that instead of messaging Tom. You should be watching the tournament, right?
Exactly.
There you go. Uh, as we do at every end of the stream, we got to try to we got to go find someone to raid because we try to spread the pinball love. We got a bunch of pinball lovers here uh watching us and now they're going to go watch somebody else if they stick around. So, please do uh thank you for your support. Uh, if you want to find me and follow me on the socials, you know how to do that. I'm sure you can be a big boy or girl and use Google. Uh, in the meantime, uh, I'll praise the Great Pyramid and, uh, goodbye. Bye.