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SDTM Ep 108: Reviewing The Reviews Part Deux

Straight Down the Middle·video·1h 11m·analyzed·May 1, 2020
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TL;DR

SDTM re-reviews 30-40 machines with new weighted grading system; Ghostbusters ranks #2, Shadow ranks #1.

Summary

Straight Down the Middle hosts Greg Bone and Jon conduct a comprehensive re-review of 30-40 pinball machines using a new weighted grading system developed with Dennis Kriesel. The system allocates scores across eight categories (art 10%, shots/layout 20%, rules/code 20%, toys/innovation 10%, music/callouts 5%, display/animation 5%, theme 10%, enjoyability 20%). Notable shifts include Ghostbusters rising to second-highest rated game, Star Wars Premium Edition gaining favor, and The Shadow emerging as the highest-rated game overall. The hosts discuss how licensed IP themes now dominate over original themes in the modern market.

Key Claims

  • Ghostbusters is now ranked #2 on both hosts' rating lists after weighted grading adjustment

    high confidence · Greg and Jon explicitly state Ghostbusters falls to second position after recalculation, with scores of A-- (3.85) and A-- (3.87)

  • The Shadow is now the highest-rated pinball machine on the list at A--, 3.87

    high confidence · Jon states 'this is actually my highest rated game on my list as of now' and explicitly confirms The Shadow holds this position

  • Original themes have no place in the modern pinball market; only licensed IP themes can succeed

    high confidence · Jon argues 'If you want to sell pinball machines in 2020, you do so with intellectual property that people already relate to' due to shift from location-based to home-based machines

  • Ghostbusters flipper gap was designed wider than intended due to CAD design error by previous designer

    medium confidence · Greg mentions rumor: 'the CAD design, whenever John Trudeau messed up the CAD design on that flipper gap' resulting in wider-than-trademark gap

  • Jon gave five A-rated games total; Greg gave eight A-rated games under the new weighted system

    high confidence · Jon explicitly states 'I have given five A's. And believe it or not, Greg Bone has given eight A's because of the way that we weight these grades now'

  • Star Wars Premium Edition with comic book art package is rated B+ by both hosts after re-review

    high confidence · Jon updates Star Wars score based on Premium Edition with preferred comic book art package, resulting in B+ overall for both

  • Pirates of the Caribbean is rated A- (3.83) by both hosts and ranks as Jon's 5th highest and Greg's 4th highest game

    high confidence · Hosts confirm Pirates unchanged from previous review, both at A- 3.83 after weighting

  • Dialed In! theme is rated poorly (C/C+) despite good mechanics and code, demonstrating theme importance in modern market

    high confidence · Jon states 'it's a good game, it's coded well...but the theme sucks so bad and it's so horrible that you don't really want to own it'

Notable Quotes

  • “If you want to sell pinball machines in 2020, you do so with intellectual property that people already relate to and people already feel drawn to. That's a fact, and there's no real discussion there.”

    Jon@ 11:51 — Core market analysis arguing licensed themes are now essential for commercial success, reflecting shift from location-based to home-owned machines

  • “Ghostbusters is a total package if you like brutal games. It's got the art. It's got the call-outs. It's got the sound. It's got good code. It's got good shots. It's just freaking great, man.”

    Greg Bone@ 18:22 — Explains why Ghostbusters ranks #2 despite difficulty; Greg defends game against criticism about unfairness

  • “This is an A game. This is one of my favorite Sterns ever made.”

    Jon@ 27:08 — Jon expresses frustration with weighted system limiting Star Wars to B+ despite personal A-level enjoyment; indicates system limitations

  • “The Shadow being my highest rated pinball machine...I don't think you're wrong in that. I think that's a very good—it's almost a perfect score for me.”

    Jon@ 23:02 — Jon defends unconventional top ranking for 1994 Williams game, explaining A+ enjoyability drives the score despite B-- theme rating

  • “I would love to own once a year for about a month. Then I'm good [about Aerosmith]. Because it's a beautiful game. But I never got a chance to own one.”

    Greg Bone@ 20:00 — Demonstrates how beautiful presentation alone cannot sustain long-term enjoyment; visual appeal insufficient without gameplay depth

  • “Don't watch the movie [The Shadow]. It'll make your theme go down even worse.”

Entities

Greg BonepersonJonpersonDennis KrieselpersonZach SharpepersonChristopher FranchipersonJeremy PackerpersonDirty Donnieperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: We Are Pinball launching community rating website allowing viewers to submit own game scores and compare against hosts' weighted system

    high · Jon announces 'we're going to put this onto a group community way for other people to compare' and requests submissions via sdtmpinball@gmail.com with Zach Sharpe managing

  • ?

    event_signal: We Are Pinball establishing standardized review methodology and planning transparency initiative; inviting broader community participation in rating games

    high · Jon announces plan to launch website with all review scores and invites viewers to submit own ratings for comparison purposes

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: The Shadow (1994 Williams) receiving highest individual rating (A--/3.87) despite unconventional choice; community members like Joe Fox challenge this rating

    high · Jon defends high Shadow rating; Greg reassures 'I don't see how anyone can say it sucks'; Jon acknowledges Joe Fox gives him hard time about rating

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rumor that Ghostbusters flipper gap was wider than John Trudeau's trademark design due to CAD error, making game harder than intended

    medium · Greg mentions 'the CAD design, whenever John Trudeau messed up the CAD design on that flipper gap' resulting in 'a hair further apart than even his notable trademark flipper gap'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Distinction between intentional brutal game design (Ghostbusters flipper gap) vs unintentional unfair mechanics (Guardians middle gate outlane bounce)

    high · Greg defends Ghostbusters difficulty as fair brutal design while criticizing Guardians left outlane as genuinely unfair; argues Ghostbusters taught him slap technique

Topics

Weighted grading system implementationprimaryLicensed IP themes vs original themes market dynamicsprimaryGhostbusters design philosophy and flipper gap controversyprimaryGame re-evaluation after extended ownership/playprimaryCommunity rating website launchsecondaryThe Shadow (Williams 1994) rating justificationprimaryStar Wars Premium Edition vs Standard Edition scoringsecondaryUnfair vs brutal intentional game design distinctionsecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.72)— Hosts maintain enthusiastic, respectful tone throughout. Generally positive about games they rate highly (Ghostbusters, The Shadow, Pirates). Critical but not dismissive about weaker games. Some defensiveness about unconventional ratings (Shadow, Star Wars). Good-natured joking about personal preferences. Collaborative problem-solving about rating system limitations. Overall community-focused and educational tone.

Transcript

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0:00
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0:25
Let's kick this shit. Straight Down the Middle You love being secluded to your home, don't you? Yes.
1:09
Actually, very much so. I'm kind of a germaphobe. I'm super safe anyway. Kind of. Yeah, I'm kind of weird about everything anyway.
1:18
And I don't leave my house. So this is not really... No. It's normal life for Greg Bone. Kind of normal life. Everybody else is panicking and going crazy and going, and like, I can't get a haircut, and I can't do all this. I'm like, my wife cuts my hair already. I don't go to the barber. You've had a whole storage closet full of toilet paper and hand sanitizer. This isn't nothing to you. No, just depleting my arsenal is it. But, you know, other than that. You wouldn't worry about that. You've got stocks. You're like, okay, Purell is down 12% after this last week. I got a little graph hanging on the door to the store. So, Greg, tell the people what we are going to be doing for them today. We are doing a re-review of our reviews. So you actually know. AKA, we're fixing our damn scores. And the way that we're going to do that, ladies and gentlemen, is that we have reviewed a lot of machines over the last couple years, haven't we? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we've made some changes throughout that. Now, we have updated, I think, the first half of the reviews that we have done over two years ago. We have updated those. But since then, we have implemented a weighted grading system, courtesy and help of Dennis Creasel from the Eclectic Gamers podcast and the Pinball Show. So, we are taking all of those old grade, old grade, grade, old grade grades. Yeah, sorry. We're taking those old grades, Greg, and we put them into the new system to balance them out. So now I finally feel great about our grading-weighted system. You know, it's not perfect, but it does make more sense. It does. It falls more in correlation with the way that we feel about a game. Damn, it must be the upside down because you're speaking more prolific than I am. All right, so we're going to go back into the way back machine. Like rubbing alcohol, not booze. Well, let's not kid one another. Maybe both. So we're going to start from the beginning and go all the way up to our last reviewed game, which was, I believe, Elvira's House of Horrors. Way back under in October. Yeah, as a reminder to the viewers, we've got a weighted grading system. and the way this works out as you guys see on the screen right now art for us counts as 10% of the weighted grade shots and layout 20% rules and code 20% toys and innovation 10% music and call outs 5% 5% for display and animation 10% for theme alone and enjoyability comprises 20% adding up to 100% of the score now if we are reviewing a game that does not have an LCD screen. Then we change that a little bit. The only differences you'll see there is that basically music and callouts split on our LCD screen. So music and callouts work 10% rather than 5%. So you get that extra 5% animation bumped into music and callouts. I think that's about right. Yeah. Greg, do you really understand that? No. Okay, fair enough. Let's go to our first reviewed game, one that you really like. It's Batman 66. Now, Batman 66 has changed a hell of a lot over the last couple years. We have reviewed that game. We've updated that game. When that fell into our most recent update, it fell for you. Let's see. For you, it ended up being a B plus 3.58, which, spoiler alert, everybody, Greg's grades are Bs. So 3.58, for me, it fell to... Just enough to be a handful. it fell to, let me see here, what do we got for Batman, it was a 325B for me, now, that was prior to our weighted grading system, we put that into effect, and now, Greg Bone, that B plus still stay to B plus for you on Batman 66 a 3.49 and for me I did change you didn't change any of the grades to update them current day for you I did I changed enjoyability and popped that bad boy down to a C now I'm sorry I understand it just don't enjoy that game very much that dropped mine to a B minus 2.88 making it one of the lowest rated games that I've had oh boy blasphemy yeah it does blasphemy uh so at the very end of this video we are going to show you that brand new beautiful report card from straight down the middle and all 30 40 reviews that we've done so that everything will be on par going forward um so it hasn't really changed for you batman 66 i still enjoy it well because i'd updated if it was going back from the original then it would have been probably a little bit more significant change would you buy one oh yeah yeah okay i just don't want to sink that much more money into a game it's going to be really hard to buy one because they discontinued or stopped making uh it's still one of my uh i won't say it's like my dream theme or anything but it's uh it's a game that i still have on the list that i want to own at some point okay all right what about this game what about dialed in that was our next reviewed game on straight down the middle dialed in no no i don't want one anymore Don't want it? Nope, not at all. Wow. Okay, let's see if the grades reflect that. Let's see. So once we put it into our new weighted grading system. Got it, Greg. Let's see. Now you changed a couple things. Art dropped for both of us. You're now to B on dialed in art. I'm going to B minus.

  • We Are Pinball plans to launch community rating comparison website where viewers can submit own scores

    high confidence · Jon announces 'we're going to put this onto a group community way for other people to compare' via website launch, with submissions to sdtmpinball@gmail.com

  • Dennis Kriesel from Eclectic Gamers podcast/Pinball Show assisted in developing the weighted grading system

    high confidence · Jon credits 'Dennis Kriesel from the Eclectic Gamers podcast and the Pinball Show' for grading system help

    • Greg Bone@ 19:20 — Humorous acknowledgment that source material quality affects theme perception; hosts rate machine independently of film quality

  • “When a ball comes out of a ramp and hits a wire guy and bounces to the outlay, that shit's unfair.”

    Greg Bone@ 30:11 — Distinguishes between intentional design difficulty (Ghostbusters) and unintentional unfair mechanics (Guardians of the Galaxy); advocates for fair brutal design

  • “If I enjoy it that much, so A+ for enjoyability put me at an A--, 3.87, which is actually my highest rated game on my list as of now.”

    Jon@ 22:54 — Jon's logic for rating The Shadow highest: machine he still owns and actively plays deserves A+ enjoyability, elevating overall score

  • “We Are Pinball...what's going to happen, we're going to put this onto a group community way for other people to compare and see each one of our scores.”

    Jon@ 30:56 — Announces upcoming community feature enabling crowdsourced game ratings; democratizes review system beyond just SDTM opinions

  • “That game taught me how to smack. The freaking slap saved the shit out of a ball. That game is the game that taught me how to do that, and it improved my skills above any other pinball machine.”

    Greg Bone@ 17:11 — Attributes skill development to Ghostbusters' difficult flipper gap; brutal design serves educational purpose beyond entertainment value

    • John Borg
    person
    Joe Foxperson
    Eric Meunierperson
    John Trudeauperson
    Straight Down the Middle: a pinball showevent
    We Are Pinballorganization
    Ghostbustersgame
    The Shadowgame
    Star Warsgame
    Dialed In!game
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Metallicagame
    Indiana Jonesgame
    Aerosmithgame
    Guardians of the Galaxygame
    Batman 66game
    Pin Stadium Lightsproduct
  • $

    market_signal: Home-based pinball machine ownership becoming dominant market; shifts theme importance from incidental (location machines) to essential (collector attraction)

    high · Jon explains 'Back in the 80s/90s these games were on location...now themes do matter more than ever. Gone are the days of wanting some theme none of our guests know'

  • ?

    community_signal: Christopher Franchi's work at Spooky Pinball cited as raising artistic bar; influences hosts' re-evaluation of older games' art scores downward

    medium · Hosts note seeing Franchi/Packer/Dirty Donnie artwork led to dropping Indiana Jones art from A to A--; acknowledges newer standard for art category

  • ?

    product_strategy: Weighted grading system developed with Dennis Kriesel to normalize and balance game scores across eight categories; addresses previous scoring inconsistencies

    high · Jon explains new system allocates 10% art, 20% shots/layout, 20% rules/code, 10% toys/innovation, 5% music/callouts, 5% display/animation, 10% theme, 20% enjoyability

  • ?

    product_concern: Games with exceptional mechanics but weak themes (Dialed In!) fail to sustain long-term ownership interest despite being 'coded well'

    high · Jon states about Dialed In! 'it's a good game, it's coded well...but the theme sucks so bad...you don't really want to own it'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Market preference for licensed IP themes now dominant; original themes no longer viable in modern home collector market despite nostalgic appeal

    high · Jon argues 'That door has closed. Either you have a licensed theme that will hit home or you don't' and 'There's no place in the market for original themes'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Ghostbusters perception has shifted from controversial/divisive to widely respected; community 'coming around' to appreciating the game after previous criticism

    high · Greg states 'That game is now coming into its own. People are respecting that game now and enjoying it' despite persistent 'unfair' criticism

  • ?

    technology_signal: Game rating and review methodology evolving toward transparent, weighted, community-comparable systems; moving beyond subjective host-only evaluations

    high · Jon announces plan to share all 30-40 game report cards and invite community to create own ratings for comparison on community website

    • 7:23
    Let's see the big ones here. Using call outs dropped a little bit for you to a B. display and animation dropped a bit from an a to an a minus for me theme we kind of dropped this on theme over time there have been many many themes that have come and gone that are just so much better than dialed in thus our current rating now reflects that we're both in c's you're c plus i'm a c on the theme and i i think i'm being nice yeah i i agree so this is where i'm at i was Actually, I rekindled this the other day, too, because I saw somebody harping when there was some discussion of the speculation of Ninja Turtles coming out and stuff. There was some people talking. They were like, yeah, it's a solid pass for me, all this. And there was somebody harping and talking about more of the original themes, original themes. And, you know, I think that we were both gigantic proprietors for original themes, especially when we first got into the hobby. but any more after seeing dialed in come out which was a fantastic shooter um it's a good game it's coded well it's it's it's actually a really good game but the theme sucks so bad and it's so horrible wow that you don't really want to own it um it's not even if it's that good yeah it almost hinders me in playing it um black knight was sort of a theme unto itself but it still didn't sell great and it's not a bad shooter um you you get an octoberfest i still like i still like the theme but i like octoberfest and black knight theme better than i do dialed in way more way more and and that's the thing is is i at this point watching some really good games come out with lackluster themes i don't think there's a place in the market for original themes and I think you've been listening to my podcast haven't you? Actually I have not I know, I apologize if you talk about this and reiterate it I'll have to listen to it because I want to hear your opinion or just tell it here and what kind of drove me to that is I was like why do we not want these original themes, what's the problem and I think the thing is we didn't have a lot of movie themed pins back in that era of pinball and so when you started bringing in all these original themes they were at a bar they were more money makers you that that in itself is nostalgia you know medieval madness some of that stuff is nostalgic for its air fish tales it's nostalgic for its time you know so i think that that you grow up thinking about those machines and you correlate those to your youth your childhood or when you you played them in the arcade or something else and that's why that it seems like that those are a good idea and that those were able to survive.
    10:20
    But now I don't think we have a place for those original themes. If that makes sense. I didn't explain that the way that I wanted to. No, it did make sense, and my heart is growing three times the size because I've been really preaching that for a long time. I'm going to try to wrap up what Greg was saying, but I'm going to do so in a more intelligent way. It's really simple, folks. Here's the deal. Back in the 80s, back in the 90s, these games were on location. There was no need for licensed theming because they were pinball machines on location. People wanted a new machine no matter what. They wanted to play something different. Yep. Some of the machines that did sell the best back in the day were actually still licensed themes. You have things like Adam's Family and the Twilight Zone selling a shitload of machines. If you fast forward now to when pinball machines are not primarily just located into a bar setting, you've got them at home. Now themes do matter more than ever. Gone are the days of us wanting to have some theme that none of our guests know whenever they walk into our game room. Thus, the reason why the older games are still heralded and loved like a Whirlwind or a Whitewater is because they have become and grown and evolved into themes of themselves because of what Greg was alluding to, and that is nostalgia. You can't create that nostalgia anymore. That door has closed. Either you have a licensed theme that will hit home or you don't, and that's it. If you want to sell pinball machines in 2020, you do so with intellectual property that people already relate to and people already feel drawn in by. That's a fact, and there's no real discussion there. People might prefer original themes. You're going to have to homebrew it because manufacturers are smarter than that now. I agree.
    12:12
    I agree. All right. So, total score now on Dialed In dropped to B pluses for both of us. Yes. moving on to Johnny Mnemonic you changed a little bit the theme you were really hard on back in the day you were at a D I think or something you popped it up to a C plus I'm going to C plus as well I changed mine I like it a little bit more I also changed enjoyability I enjoyed Johnny Mnemonic a hell of a lot more than I did in the past you were nasty on Johnny Mnemonic I'll eat some crow I was wrong on that one I'm going to B plus on enjoyability now and shots of layout I'm at an A-. I improved that. Everything else stayed the same for both of us. Resulting in straight B's for both of us. That's solid. That is very accurate to that game. Very accurate.
    13:00
    Moving on to one of our favorite games ever made and it's Ghostbusters. Talk a little bit about the progression that you've had with enjoying this game or not enjoying this game. New code. Owning it a little bit longer. I have not played the new code. but you know so you touted that game you had that game man we were very early on in our pinball that was probably the from the time that me and you got into pinball that was probably the first new stern no? Star Trek was our big well when we were in pinball Ghostbusters was the first release the big release you got it I found like we were lucky to get one on location at a rec bar. And so I went over there and played it. I said, well, man, they got 70-something pins in one location, another 70-something, 80-something in another location. This was back when they had like five pins back then. And so I played it. I shot it. Loved it.
    14:03
    Bought one from you. You'd gotten one in on a trade, and I bought one from you. Me and you become obsessed with it. We started to see who could get to the wizard mode the soonest. and that kind of killed it for me for a long time because it was so obsessive and it's such a tough game people still give us a hard time though Greg for loving that game as much as we do what do you say to them? no I think they're full of shit I think most people I think people are coming around that game is now coming to it's own people are respecting that game now and enjoying it they still say it's unfair it's poorly designed the rules are no good what do you say to that i think the rules are fantastic that's what made me a dwight sullivan freaking fanatic was those rules and then when i played star wars same damn thing like i love the rule structure on that and fuck the whole linear stuff it's not it's linear in a sense but you still have three different sets of modes that you can pick from you're still trying to collect ghosts you're still trying to get multi-balls yes it is It's not an unfair game. The flipper gap makes it tough, but that's no different than just saying the damn flipper gap in general is unfair. The rumor is, for listeners and viewers who haven't heard about this, and I don't know if this is legit, but there is a rumor, that the CAD design, whenever John Trudeau, or that who we don't mention, whenever he messed up the CAD design on that flipper gap, and it is actually, when they went to build the playfields and the materials, it's actually a hair further apart than even his notable trademark flipper gap. So it's even, now I would like to see, as we discuss the grades here, I would like to see them vault this game, and I would like to see them actually, they can leave the outlanes brutal, but I'd like to see them fix that flipper gap to a more traditional gapped game. it can still have the flop flippers I'm fine with that, Gomez does that on a lot of his games but to fix that flipper gap I don't think it's going to change the angles enough, Dennis Creasel has argued with me about that but change that back and that helps take some of the bad taste in our mouths from that previous designer and his legal issues in the past but then it doesn't make it too easy I don't think it will no, it wouldn't make it too easy man, I don't know So, like, I'm so mixed on that because I'm kind of like Dennis. I think that it's going to change those angles a little too much, and I almost think that it makes it a little too easy. Like, that was – Well, then at least fix it to the traditional flipper gap that he always utilizes. I would like a little bit less of a gap.
    16:54
    You can't scoop them. You can't – I'm not opposed to correcting it and even making it traditional. if it did not make it that much, if it didn't make it too easy. And I'm scared that it's going to make it too easy. Okay. But that game taught me how to smack. Like, the freaking slap saved the shit out of a ball. Like, that game is the game that taught me how to do that, and it improved my skills above any other pinball machine. I can see that. You actually bumped up your score quite a bit. In the past, you were, let's see where you were at in the past. Now yours fell at a B plus 3.53 overall. Now with our new weighted grading system, where enjoyability means a lot to us, shots and layout mean a lot to us, rules and code mean a lot to us. You bumped your toys up your music up your enjoyability up I just moved the rules up from I think it was a B to an A now now they are Fantastic I at a three point eight five a minus one of the few A that either of us have given you were at an A minus three point eight seven even higher than myself and this falls you guys viewers this falls now Ghostbusters by Stern pinball in the second position on not only mine, but Greg's rating system overall This is number two for both of us. That's big. That's a big one. It is big. But it's a good game, man. It's almost a total package if you like brutal games. It's got the art. It's got the call-outs. It's got the sound. It's got good code. It's got good shots. It's just freaking great, man. It's damn good. Now, this next one you've gone down on because it weighed on you a little bit after I made you play it for a little bit. That's Aerosmith by Stern Pinball. I thought you were going to say it was your mom. Hey!
    18:48
    Linda Minnie is a saint, thank you. That description just described her to the team. My mom. My sweet mom.
    18:57
    Where is Miss Bone at? Quarantined. Where she belongs. Miss Bone is still listening to Aerosmith and her Trans Am. You know she is. Smoking her unfiltered cigarettes. Loving an elevator! Oh my gosh. She got that Steven Tyler voice. She got that Steven Tyler look.
    19:20
    I don't know which one looks more like a lady. It's more cut down to Steven Tyler, actually. All right, so on this, you went down on animation. Both of us went down on animation display a little bit. Again, after seeing all the awesome-ass animation from these manufacturers year after year, this is starting to get a little bit more dated. So we're at B- on animation. I dropped down a little bit on theme as well. And enjoyability for you dropped all the way to a C+. You're mediocre. You're lukewarm at best on this game when you're playing it. Do you agree with me, though?
    20:00
    It's one of those games that I would love to own once a year for about a month. Then I'm good. I thought that. Because it's a beautiful game. It's beautiful. It is pretty. Shots look cool. Lights are good. everything's good and you know I played it quite a bit when it first came out and we reviewed it but I never got a chance to own one and you let me have one for a minute and I didn't want it I was like come get it, pick it up, I don't care for it I hated it, coming out of those pops is still like the worst thing I've ever seen in pinball and it's the most frustrating damn thing play Willy Wonka Ronnie Lop's code is it seems like it would be the code for me. When I look at it and I see what's going on, it seems like a code structure that will fit me. But I don't even really like the code. It's just not fun to me. There's just something not enjoyable about that game, and I really want to play one forever. Other games that Lonnie has coded and team over there, very similar, like KISS, Guardians of the Galaxy. Now, Guardians got an overhaul and changed a lot, but Kiss falls into the same thing. It feels more fitting for Kiss. Yeah, it does. You drop to a B, a 3.04. I'm at a B+. Just a, you know, overall, just a good game. Yeah, it is. Good game. Nothing that shines but a good game. Metallica. Metallica, none of us changed our, neither one of us changed our scores, but because of that new weighted grading, where you're at a B+, I'm at a B. I think that's fitting. Nothing changed. Rob Zombie. It's a good game, not killer. Let's see. Rob Zombie, nothing really changed. You dropped enjoyability a hair to a B-. So yours fell to a B-, mine's at a C+. It's one of our lesser-liked games that we've reviewed.
    21:52
    I think that happens to a lot of people on that game. The Shadow, designed by Brian Eddy. Bally Williams' game back in 1994. The art for you went up a little bit. You were at a B. You were pretty brutal on it. Not a whole lot on that play field, but I overlooked play field because cabinet art's good the you know taxi and the same that's really cool it is pretty yeah and I'm still going on all ricks package yeah yeah listen no we're I'm fine with that because that's cheating that's the preferred art package uh grade wise you're to be plus now overall once we've weighted all those scores now I changed my enjoyability on that game this game is damn near perfect for me it's one of my favorite games I still own it but enjoyability I thought to myself Greg there's no way that I should have anything under an A plus for enjoyability if I've owned it for so long and if it's still bolted to the floor right that makes sense if I enjoy it that much so A plus for enjoyability put me at an A minus a 3.87 which is actually my highest rated game on my list as of 2020 and I don't think you're wrong in that I think that's a very good uh it's almost a perfect score for me the only thing preventing it from being a perfect score i have a's or a pluses on every category except for theme which is still a b minus for me i'm mixed it's just okay yeah don't watch the movie i've only seen part of it it'll make your theme go down even worse you think i'll get a lot of shit for shadow being my highest rated pinball machine no dude i think it's a good game and i think people who appreciate it will completely agree um honestly i i think that i don't see how anyone can say it sucks i don't see anybody could really rate it bad i can understand if they don't rate it as high as you but i i don't see joe fox our buddy joe fox doesn't like it joe fox he gives me a hard time such a good game but moving on to indiana jones this is at one point was our highest rated game and we gave it a perfect rating but over time things change and our grades have changed. Art for us now that we're seeing all this zombie yeti Chris Franchi, Dirty Donnie stuff come out. Art's not as great as some of that stuff so we dropped our A's to A minuses. Still cool art though. It's really really good art. Enjoyability for me over time, I've played the hell out of it I've gotten to the wizard mode, never beat it but it went to an A minus from an A and an A- for shots and layout for me rather than an A. All considered, Greg, this is still your highest rated game on the list at a 3.91. Thien helps a lot in that. But it's a good shooter. It's good code. It's a pretty machine. It missed perfection because of art and enjoyability for you, both A-s. Yeah. I'm at a 3.85, A-. So overall, you guys will see at the end of the program, But I have given, once we weighted all these grades, I have given five A's. And believe it or not, Greg Bone has given eight A's because of the way that we weight these grades now. So technically, I've given, no, you've still given more B's than me because you have not given a C because of these weighted grades. And I have given four C's. Brutal, you are brutal. Star Wars.
    25:20
    Whoa. this is a game that grew on us like a really bad rash very much either that or whatever the hell is growing on the the back of the left ear of a miss bone warts oh i lick those come on all right so on star wars we changed it up a little bit here i said to hell with it i don't care about it being a pro or anything like that. My favorite is the premium LE. So not only am I going to rate it based on that and update my scores, I'm going to do it based on the art package that I prefer, which is the comic book art package. So once that is into consideration, our art bumped up, I'm going to B plus your name minus, uh, shots and layout for me is a B plus B plus for you too. I bumped mine up a little bit rules and code B plus is bumped up for you. and uh let's see enjoyability we're both at solid a's now we love this game i do and you know what like even though i sold it i didn't sell it at all because like i i didn't sell it at all because i didn't like the game or that i grew tired of the game and thought less of it it just literally i wanted space for something else um that i'd played less but you know it's still a fantastic game like I still play it on location. I still want you to own the Premium LE at some point. Eh, whatever. It's one of the greatest feelings in pinball. Oh, bullshit! I'm not doing it again. I'm not arguing this again. It's not great. But they ended up, our total scores ended up being B+. And this is one of those rare occasions where you talked about at the beginning of the show where it's still not a perfect system because for me, Greg, this is an A game. This is one of my favorite sterns ever made. Things like toys, innovation. Art's still not an A. Yeah, knocks it down. Shots and layout, that plunge, the plunge to the stand-up targets. I still don't mind that. You talk that blasphemy and bullshit. I never had a problem with that on mine. No, not feeling that. Toys and innovation, still not, like you said, not got a ton in it. I balance my toys and innovation because I'm going to be. Now, on the Premium LE. Because of Hyper. I think that Hyperloop is an A. it's an A plus toy but because the pro has little to nothing that's more of a D or a C minus to me so it balances itself out to a B that would be a higher rated game. Shots and code are the saving grace of that pen and that's what I correlate when people bitch and complain about Stranger Things. I compare Stranger Things to Star Wars that's the way I feel about it. It don't need a lot the code is good and the shots are good. Well, not all the shots in Stranger Things. That's for another day. But everything is there enough in those categories that I don't have to have the toys to enjoy it. I don't have to have the mechs to enjoy it. That's just what it is. I get that. Moving on to The Hobbit. The Hobbit, both of us enjoy pretty well. And we didn't change anything. No. It stayed the same. The final cumulative scores changed a little bit because of the weights on it. but we're still at B pluses all around. Not bad. Walking Dead, you changed nothing in our Walking Dead review. After the wait, you ended up being a B plus. I changed the music and call outs. It was fairly low for me. But again, we're doing the best representation of these games, and the best representation includes that Cleland code, so my music and call outs are now a B. It's a balance. That's another one that's very similar to Star Wars. Yeah, I'm a B plus. that's an A game. It's an A game. Exactly. But the art ugh. Art's not great. The amusing call outs. I take an A plus Cleland and a C Stern mix it up it's a B. So it's a B plus but I'd rather own it over some of my higher rated games. Agree. Tron Legacy both a B pluses.
    29:28
    Let's see here. Yeah you were being nice. I bumped my rules and code down a little bit. Enjoyability down just a hair. B pluses. Alien. Neither one of us changed anything. They still were B pluses after the waits. Still like that game. Guardians of the Galaxy. I lowered my enjoyability to a B and none A minus.
    29:50
    Overtime. The more you own it, the more you play it. You get tired of any game. I get that. That one in particular. Music and call outs. It becomes frustrating.
    30:01
    I'm telling you, that left outlaying this. You're talking about unfair. That's unfair. That's a Borg middle gate. Don't bitch about Ghostbusters. That's actually unfair. When a ball comes out of a ramp to return to your damn flipper, and it hits a wire guy and bounces to the outlay, that shit's unfair.
    30:21
    I can't argue. You do love your Borg, you two. I know. So you ended up being a B for you, a B plus for me. These are all. And listeners, again, in the comments section, Do you guys agree with us, disagree with us? What are your... Comment down below. That's right. I would love for the viewers to take our rating system and to comprise their own. Submit it to us because what we're going to do at some point, we are the pinball reviewers, Greg. I don't care what systems people create. We are the pinball reviewers. and what's going to happen, we're going to put this onto a group community way for other people to compare and to see each one of our scores. That's going to be done on a website or something very soon. So submit yours to us. Email us at sdtmpinball at gmail.com. Zach will be doing all that. And if you're, and if, look, here's the thing. We're the judges. So if you send us this troll bullshit, no, it just gets thrown out.
    31:25
    All right. Who are we at? Oh, Houdini. Miss. Yes. Miss. Yeah. Now, this was very, very, very high for us. Yeah. When all of the categories were distributed evenly. Weight was. Once weight comes into the consideration, we're now at B pluses on this game. It's fair. I'm using call outs. I bumped mine down to a B minus. I still don't mind them. I know you don't. I think a B plus is very fair on that game. Yeah. Black Rose.
    31:58
    Yours didn't change. Yeah. After the wait, you're at a B- still. One of your lower rated games. I actually increased my enjoyability, and I increased my rules and code. It's one of my favorite System 11s. I want one. I'm going to put some bolts in it. So mine ended up being a B. You had a pretty nice one. You should have never got rid of that one. I know. It was pretty good. I know. I hadn't been through enough games yet. I know. Jersey Jack Pinballs Pirates of the Caribbean yeah one of our highest rated games in the past we haven't changed anything but with the weights we're still A minuses and we're still both at 3.83 we now agree 3.83 I think it's super fair it's one of my 5 A's that I've given out one of your 8 A's it's your 4th rated game yeah that's not bad all the pinball machines we reviewed all the great games out there to be number four? If it was Eric Menier, I'd be doing shots right now. I can't wait till his next game. The approval of Greg Boat.
    33:03
    Eric's next game. And for those of you who are watching the video after you've seen it, right? Am I right? Drop a little milk and sugar on that ass.
    33:17
    Did they sing a song? Lethal Weapon 3. I was eating a little crow. I changed my grades a little bit. I'm telling you what, I cleaned that son of a bitch up, and it's still sitting in my garage, and it's sparkling clean. And I'll tell you what, I step away from that game, and I still smile and enjoy the shit out of it, and I probably should have put it higher. That game, to me, should probably sit in the A category.
    33:47
    Number 9. It ended up after the weights being a B for you. Not even a B+. 3.01. What you strived for in school. This fucking grading scale is off. This is off. This is bad. Oh, stop. What the hell did Dennis Creasel create? This is all we can do. Bitch. Alright, rules and code. You're to B-, you change that a little bit. I'm going to C+, a little nicer. Toys and Innovation, still C-s for us. Enjoyability, B-, I bumped mine a little bit. It is a fun little game. It is fun. It's one of my Cs. I'll tell you what's so bad about that game is that game is a beautiful pinball machine but the art is horrendous now how in the hell does that work I don't know I can't tell you it's the mix of the lighting the layout the design I can't tell you I cannot tell you why that I feel that every time I look at that game I'm like this son of a bitch is gorgeous but then you look at it it's like muddled face bad at east art Joe Pesci yeah that's a c plus for me iron maiden keith elwyn's first designed production game good game so much so that's one of your a's a minus you know what man that pin uh kudos to uh the licensing of that pin because that pin actually made i listen to some what you consider metal i guess and everything um but it kind of made me a an iron maiden fan like i listen to quite a bit of maiden now and it started with that pin so like they're they're you know licensing marketing strategy of allowing it to be done worked i think it worked on a lot of people i think there's a lot of people going to concerts and shit now for iron yeah that didn't previously possibly i'm still pretty high up on it i still theme for me is just a d can stay in the theme and displaying animations for for me is actually c they didn do anything for me i gonna be B plus overall They decently shitty animations Ooh Jurassic Park by Data East Oh dang You didn't change your score. It's still a 317B after the weights. For me, music and call-outs got bumped down a little bit after that new John Williams score on the Stern game came out. So it's a B for me. And overall, a B, 3.02. But Lost World Jurassic Park, one of Greg Bone's favorite games. Yep, you didn't change any of your ratings, but it's still in that A category for you. Still A-. Now, for me, rules and code went up a little bit. I'm an A- now, and overall I'm an A-. I love that this year you have came around to my Data East, Sega realm of things, that they're not so bad now that you've gotten out of all your hoity-toity, like high-end pinball machines. I still don't own a Sega or a Data East. Yeah, but you will. You'll get to it when I leave the weapons.
    36:43
    It's like one of those... Data East and Sega are like bad friends I had in high school. They're fun to hang out with, but you don't want to be seen with them. Oh, my God. That is just the... No, that is completely off because they're not bad. They're not bad. I can equate it to that. They're fun to play, but they're annoying at times.
    37:03
    That's hanging out with the nerds. That's hanging out with the smart kids. That's what that is. It's not the bad kids over smoking some marijuana under the bleachers. This is like hanging out with the nerd kids that you really like. Calling Daddy Stoners. I like it. Yeah, like.
    37:18
    Speaking of being stoned, you've got to be stoned when you play this game. Wizard of Oz by Jersey Jack Pimble. All the colors. All the munchkins.
    37:25
    I still don't have the adequate time on that as I'd like. You're not missing anything. Your enjoyability went down a hair. You're at a B+. my enjoyability went down a lot I'm at a C on enjoyability art took a hit for me it's now B and rules and code A- I just don't want to get it sometimes I'm confused half the time I'm at a B overall at a 3.04 now with the weights and that's being nice I'd rather have some of my lesser reviewed games over Wizard of Oz I can agree I just want to own it I gotta see it, I gotta fill it out ok Okay. We'll fill out Glinda there.
    38:09
    T&A. Oh, speaking of Glinda. Glinda got a little T&A. Yeah. T&A by Spooky Pinball. Toys and Innovation. You went... You're at a B+. Now you changed that a little bit. Theme, we both went down on.
    38:29
    We're practicing what we're preaching. You're at a C+. On the theme, I'm at a B-. Scott Denise is still part of that theme for me that's why it's a B enjoyability A- for me B- for you we end up in the B you're at a straight B on this game now after we calibrate it I'm at a B- I feel fair on that I think that it's a fan hyped kind of game not to say that it's not a good game by any means but I think that there's a lot of fanfare and hype behind it just because of Scott, which isn't a bad thing. I'm not taking away from it, but I think that when you look at the game itself and the code, it's fast, it's fun, but I think that a B is very fitting.
    39:15
    Chromit, Brassit, Black Nicolet, Candy Chromit, Powder Coated. The possibilities are endless at pinballplating.com Your pinball machine deserves the best. At Comet Pinball, you'll find the best variety of LED products with the best quality LEDs, and most importantly, at the best price. Your collection is begging for an upgrade. Order yours now at CometPinball.com. Check out Pin Graphics for the latest and greatest in pinball enhancements, power blades, blade skins, pin blades, and even more. Visit PinGraphics.com now to see what's available for your pinball machine. All right, Greg, our next game is one that you've wanted to conceive a child with at times, it feels like. Oh, yeah. It's Deadpool by Stern Pinball. Ooh, yeah. This thing has really changed over time, hasn't it? It has. That's what made me buy it was listening to everyone talk about the new code updates and everything else and how good the game has gotten. So I kind of took a leap of faith, and that's what made me buy it. Well, we changed damn near every category updating it. So you even bumped up your art to A+. We're now higher on shots and layout. We're higher on rules and code. We're both A- on rules and code. Music and call-outs got better for both of us. Display and animations are good. Enjoyability, you're an A on enjoyability. One of your most enjoyable games that you've rated.
    40:53
    Oh, yeah. It's a freaking blast. You're an A- overall. That's another one of your A's. That's big time.
    41:03
    Well, you know, this is the way I describe it, people, when someone asks me about Deadpool. Not only is it beautiful, and every time that I talk about this game on video, I owe Jeremy Packer an apology for even remotely even saying the little too red on there. Like, completely. but dude you know it's it's a hard game to explain because it's it can be a fight sometimes you can battle that game but sometimes it feels like that it's shooting smooth it's shooting fine and it's just a blast to play and there's just always something going on that's what I tell people is you're always you're you're accessing whether it's a team up or you're going into some other multi-ball or you're doing something dazzler yeah katana rama like or you know little there's always something going on yes so there's always something going do you attribute a lot that to uh taniel kleiss he was the lead on this this is his first like lead game yeah i mean i did i don't know did he go back he's i mean yeah because i mean i guess it was It wouldn't be like a Ronnie Lopp situation where somebody came in over... It's always a team there at Stern anymore. Yeah, you know, I don't know whoever takes credit for it, but it's something that I think needs to be done in more games.
    42:31
    I think that that's sort of what Stranger Things needs a little bit more of. I think it needs a little more going on. Stranger Things has a great core base of code, but I think it needs something like what Deadpool achieved, where there's always something going on. It's like the perfect ADD pin, ADHD pin. Like, because your mind is always going. That makes sense, actually. Yeah. Like, not only, like, the rules and everything else, but the sounds, the colors, everything. But, dude, it's just a blast to play. The shots are fun. It's a typical Gomez. You know, obviously, it's not the smoothest shooting pin, but the shots are unique. Very flowy. It is flowy. And you learn to appreciate those shots. And, you know, when we first reviewed this, you know, you obviously remember a lot of katana shots were hard to hit. I thought it was kind of a clunk fest. Yeah, and we bitched about that. But honestly, like if you get mine shoots perfect, that's why I don't think I'll ever get rid of it. And I toyed around just recently with you on getting rid of mine and trading it for a Ghostbusters.
    43:36
    But I just don't think I can because mine shoots perfect. Like that katana shot on the skill shot. So you hit that katana shot from the skill shot from the plunge. Oh, there's nothing like it. And it'll give you another ball full orbit. And you can hit another katana shot. I have to miss. I have to deliberately let it dead bounce. Because I will hit all three. And I will go into my ninja multi-ball. And I don't want to. Like I'm trying to avoid that. I think it's got to be like 30, 40 miles an hour too. It is fast. It whips up and around. and it's in the sword handle before you even notice it left the flipper. Faster than any return ramp anything. It's sick. I would say that whenever I first reviewed this, and I've eaten crow since, but this is one of my favorite George Gomez layouts. It's just really, really well done.
    44:24
    You know what? I 100% agree. It's almost refreshing to see now. And I think that we have eight crow on this game almost more than any other. This and Star Wars we really were wrong on. Yeah, yeah, completely. Because I think that this is honestly kind of a timeless game all the way around. Like, you know, the call-outs I've gotten more accustomed to. They're just funky. They're fun. The animations have grown on me. I actually like the whole 16-bit mixed with everything else. Yeah. And I sound like a broken record for those of you who follow me on different mediums, but I keep saying it. George Gomez to me is like a really aged, nice scotch where when you first taste it, you think, ugh, I like liquor, but this is nasty shit. I don't like this at all. But after you keep sipping, you grow this taste for it, and then it becomes more favored than any other liquor you're drinking, a nice scotch. so George Gomez over the years for me I've become more appreciative of his art uh artwork being design uh and I prefer his games to a lot of other people now you know what I started off as a very big Gomez fan yes and then I I kind of um you know once I started playing some smoother pins and I got into some just other shots I've become a little bit more of a Borg fan um and Gomez's stuff did feel a little clunkier i was like you know what there's just some better shooters out there he switches it up though yeah but i'm i'm exactly where you are um with him like like you i found myself going back to gomez that it's just like you said he switches stuff up he has a signature his signature is clunk it's tight tight shot bends you know tight angles but it's different. He's the one person I know that can have some clunky shots, but maybe still the flowiest game. There's a difference between clunk and flow. Yes, yes, very much so. Clunk is the feel of the materials in the ball interacting with those pieces of metal or plastic.
    46:34
    So, grade-wise, you're at an A-. This fits the bill for an A game for Greg Bone. That doesn't happen too often. I'm at a B+. This is my new go-to pin when somebody says what what what single pin if i'm just gonna buy one pin it's my first pin and i'm gonna buy it what should i buy really i this is a great first pin yeah it is it's my new i used to be you know everybody says metallica um i never said metallica very much um star trek yep was we always recommend that to people they could learn it fast it was easy pretty decent one for the guardians tight though that's tight tight shots deadpool's my new recommendation it's not a bad one and sales uh as a distributor sales wise they're they're retaining sales man they yeah i still sell a shitload of deadpool so yeah i like it's an interesting game that uh really really turned the path for us onward to lord of the rings now we haven't really changed this much i showed a little bit more love and appreciation for the shots and layout now but again greg bone has this as an a pen a minus 3.84 and i'm going to be plus just because that art killed it for me i'm going to see still on that uh but if it wasn't for that it's almost be one of the perfect pins yeah yeah oh yeah i agree yeah it's almost perfection oh man damn they really they need to retheme that they all need to that son of a bitch and redo it like that is a killer you're not rethinking you're right vault vault yeah yeah yeah now we're going to go to monster bash le our first original halloween special remember that yes i do i drooled that's my epic now you changed we both changed the same thing we both changed rules and code and enjoyability uh we both went down on rules and code you're to b plus you were in the a's I'm at a C. I don't enjoy the rules and code as much. It's not to say there's anything wrong with the rules and code. It's just not my style of code set. And enjoyability went down for me to a C and you a B, making this a B plus pin for you and a B pin for me when taking into consideration those weighted grades.
    48:47
    Yep, I think that's very fair. Cactus Canyon, you changed the theme a little bit. I think you went down on theme. But otherwise, we stayed the same. still a B plus pin for both of us. Believe it or not, man, I am I know the rumor is Cactus Canyon coming out next as the remake for CGC. I've kind of been itching for Cactus Canyon again for some reason. You know, I won't lie to you.
    49:12
    Thinking about it, like when we were discussing these reviews and doing everything, I was kind of thinking the same thing. I was like, you know what, man? It's campy, it's weird, it's western, whatever. I'm not a giant western fan, but like man that's kind of a neat pin still WPC yep I'm excited about it I am too especially if they really filled out the code excited about it more than if they ever did a big bang bar I agree easily and think about that topper if they oh man yeah moving on to Spider-Man Vault a pin that I could do without none of us changed our grades I'm going to be minus still you're to be plus that is where these grades are deceiving gray because a b minus give me the pins under it because i just nothing clicks with me in spider-man but i can respect it it is a damn good pinball machine just not one for me uh 100 agree it is it is it may be the only pin that i have owned that i uh have never formed an itch to re-own and you you always want the pins back so that's yeah that pin no no i won't even drop a dollar in it at location. Damn! Harsh. I won't touch it. Poor Steve Bowden right now. It's his favorite game. He's just... Oh, I like the original still. I still like the original. Vault. That vault just... I don't... Man. A little stale. A little... Something just nasty. Sterile. A little sterile. Is that not weird, though, that you take the same damn pin, you add new call-outs, and... It looks better.
    50:47
    It actually looks better, but it's something with the call-outs, and it just changes the entire feel of that pin and it's just that's weird that that can mess a pin up so bad we've already talked two minutes more than i want to about it that's true fathom the fathom was a weird one you didn't change your scores the only thing i changed was enjoyability i actually went down c plus on enjoyability i still like fathom i like playing fathom the only difference being i've played solid states or early solid states that i like better now like meteor i really like meteor um so worth thin for you it yeah the beauty the beauty the beauty has worn off like it's it's the the prettiness of it uh has not captivated you as much yeah especially for the price i'm like yeah for me it still even at the price beatles i still consider that the feel of an early solid state and i i that like i match everything with that now yeah i don't blame you just what i do so we're still both a B minuses on that. It's a great game, especially for the time, and one of the favorites of many, but not for us. Godzilla. I didn't change anything. I still get it at a B minus after the weighted grades. You changed a little bit. You upped your rules and code. You're enjoying it a lot more. Your B pluses on that. So you're a B minus overall. Again, not one of our highest rated games, but we both appreciate and like that game. Yeah, I think that's a little... It may be a little unfair.
    52:18
    on there which way i put it push it more towards a b oh okay feels more like a b push it a little higher speaking of what about monsters pro because when you rated that you liked it and then you didn't like it but then you liked it you're you're always mixed on this you didn't change your scores but it ends up being just a good old b pin for you and i think that that's very fair go looking back because i was in this weird power struggle with that game um there was times that i respected it and there was times that I hated it and loathed it and then I thought well you know what it shoots really good um it does have a it's it's an okay code set um it'll develop yeah uh and it never developed and that made it ass that made it it's a full game it's a full game it's a full game but it's it's ass that's another one of those games just won the it just won the twippy uh a month or two ago for best art of all it's a beautiful pin and and it shoots it shoots well oh gosh it It really does. I still miss a lot of the shots. That's another pin that if I found the right deal, I would own it. I would buy it again. I'm not that mad at it. It's just the code structure because you're having to repeat and stuff.
    53:28
    It becomes very as much as what I like Star Trek Star Trek was sort of like that But Star Trek Star Trek shot I don know Star Trek felt a little better um than that I guess in a sense but it just so repeatable and there's not a lot of other things going on in Munsters that it it wears thin very yeah I I've said it to many people and you guys have heard it I'll say it again my uh summary on Munsters is that it checks every single box wonderfully except for one. Now, I did not rate this pin with you. I didn't review it, but I did throw some scores in there for some of you viewers to check out. Moving on to Baywatch. Now, this little turd of a pin, you're still pretty high on. You're at a B. You didn't change anything, really.
    54:17
    I changed theme. I made it even worse. Why? It's a good thing. It's so nostalgic. It's so stupid. So great. C minus. Oh, man. Look, it's a good pin, but it's just not going in my lineup anytime soon because there's plenty of pins, more fun, more beautiful, better themes, and everything about it. It's my lowest rated game at a 1.3 or 1.9 GPA. That's a C minus, almost a D. That is freaking ridiculous. I'd rather have a Rob Zombie. Oh, my God. that is oh my god i'm taking i'm done like that is the most ridiculous bullshit i've ever heard god oh my god like that and a t2 that's like my two pins that i'm like wanting for my next like full day watch gets me fired up to the level of batman 66 where i'm like god it's such a waiting for something to happen oh another one that i roll my eyes at adam's family I kept my scores the same solid B game for me nothing special at all you upped your art to a B but overall still a B plus a fairly high B plus but a B plus very overrated game in a way yeah moving on to a game that I recently purchased Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle we were pretty high on this initially scores have gone down just a hair since we've played more of it your shots and layouts went down a little bit. My Rules and Code went down a hair. Toys and Innovation went down a little bit. We're still at B pluses. That's where it needs to be. That's solid. It is. And if anybody at Spooky is worried about that, I'll be like, hey, look, I've got it rated a higher grade than Adam's family, so come on. Yeah, respect it. The Beatles, you didn't change anything about the Beatles and it ended up being let's see here, I think at this point in time we were already up to our weighted grades so the people already know 2.86 a B- for you because you're out of your fucking mind and have no clue how to review pinball machines and for me it's not that great darling it's one of Stern's greatest pinball machines ever made it's nice but it's not that nice but I didn't review it with you guys again though if you want to see my grades go ahead and look on the screen same thing with Jurassic Park Pro I did not review that. You did. You reviewed it to be an A-. You didn't change anything about it. And it's still one of your favorite pinball machines ever made. True that. Ever made. Now it falls in the fourth position on all of your reviews. Fourth position. Really?
    57:03
    Yeah. It's right under Lord of the Rings and right above Dialed In. Do you think it's deserving? No, hold up. I'm looking at the old one. Hold up. Hold up. You're making all kinds of mistakes. No, it is the lowest A that you've given out. It's right under Lost World Jurassic Park, and it's right above Metallica as B+. So it's hanging on to the A- spot. I think that's fair, actually.
    57:28
    What's your favorite thing about that game? About Jurassic Park? Yeah. Probably the code structure. Really? yep I mean the overall theme of course but I don't feel like it's really a Jurassic Park theme oh my god no it's not I mean I get the music I do want to do one whole episode so I can just bitch about the problems with that only if I can complain about Baywatch or Wizard of Oz or Wizard of Oz. Yeah, I mean, I just, I don't know, man. It's a good combination of everything. Yeah, I love, I said or Metallica. I could bitch about Metallica. I love Jurassic Park. I have an LE. I don't know if you guys can see it back there. I have an LE, and I love the snot out of it, but it doesn't come close to pulling me in as much as Elvira, or dare I say even Willy Wonka, or really dare I say Stranger Things. You know what, though? This is the sad thing. As much as I love the theme, and I love that franchise, and it means so much to me that I have an entire room dedicated to it, I will agree with you that those pins are more compelling and pull you into the world of everything a little more. They're assets. They're assets that pull you in. It's so generic that it's very borderline dialed in. um you know what i'm saying like it's it's almost it's just a cheap dinosaur theme with a great score and you know what i and there's nothing wrong with that because when it comes to one of my favorite pins ever is the walking dead greg and i don't feel pulled in to i feel very similar to the uh to walking dead in jurassic park where i feel like i'm more being a pinball player. I'm battling, I'm competing as a pinball player. I don't feel really pulled in, minus some of the mini-wizard modes on The Walking Dead. So if you strip away Horde and you strip away Terminus and stuff, that's about how I feel with Jurassic Park. I can get behind that, yeah. It's just they dilapidated the theme was just an afterthought. A stripped-down theme.
    60:00
    Yeah, but I mean, Keith did a lot with it. It's still a very good game. I would call it a masterpiece. A Stern masterpiece. Yeah, I'll agree. I'd like a few different things, maybe changes in the rules, but it's still, I keep coming back for more so that has to say something about it. Oh my gosh, speaking of keep coming back for more, this next game is our last reviewed game thus far and it gets my blood pumping and the code's not even done and it still gets better and better. It's Stern's Elvira's House of Whores. I reviewed it with you as Wayne, you were Garth. I love this game Now we changed our rules a little Or changed our scores a little bit Shots and layout you went up to a B plus I went up to an A minus Rules and code we both went up to A minuses Now because boy it's getting good And theme I think I may have went down On theme a hair To B minus What?
    60:58
    Look I got stranger things now I got Wonka. Those are dream themes to me. Elvira really doesn't do anything for me. The integration is off the hook, but the theme itself doesn't really scream to me or anything. I can see where you're at with that, but she was just kind of a staple pop culture. I never knew her really. I never knew her. Not until I got into Pinball I really didn't know much of her. I mean, I didn't watch any of those episodes or anything, but I just knew of her just being a horror fan. And like the old B films and stuff. Never was a huge fan of B horror films or anything. Didn't do anything for me. I ended up, we're both at B pluses. You're a 3.6. I'm a 3.62.
    61:42
    But again, the way I'm enjoying this game... I think that's going to go up. I've got Elvira's at the end here. I've got Elvira right under The Hobbit, Walking Dead, Lord of the Rings, Houdini. Right now I'd rather have an Elvira than a Houdini. Do you think the layout kills it? do you think that it's too simplistic of a layout or or do you enjoy that layout no i i really enjoy the layout it's just fun to shoot yeah because see that's where i like so so that's why i want more time on it because that was one of the things that kept me i felt from rating it higher is it felt like such a simple shooter um it kicks my ass but it's fun but it seemed like just such long ball times because it was such a simple shooter it's not like that anymore like if I get annihilated on that thing. You know how stern slings are. Yeah. Just get in there. Sometimes I have longer bowl times on Stranger Things. I think it's going to go to an A. I think it's going to go down as an amazing pin. That's an A pin.
    62:44
    Once again with Lyman. So if we're looking our next reviews Greg for the viewer are likely going to be Willy Wonka. We're going to review that. We're going to review Stranger things.
    62:59
    We will be reviewing very soon, very, very soon, you're going to see a review by us on Rick and Morty. Ooh, yes. The Rick and the Mortys. Three anticipated reviews there. Medieval Madness I think deserves a review. So we've got a lot of fun stuff coming up. If we're looking at our final recap of grades, I'm going to read off the top five for both of us, okay? I'll do top ten. Top 10. Coming in at number 10 for Greg Bone on his reviews. 3, 6, 9. The Walking Dead at number 10. A B+. 3.60. Number 9 is Metallica. A B+. Number 8, Jurassic Park Pro at an A-. Number 7, Lost World Jurassic Park. A-. Yeah, that Sega game.
    63:50
    Number 6, Stern's Deadpool Pro. A-. Number 5, Stern's Iron Maiden Number 4, Pirates of the Caribbean By Jersey Jack Pinball A- Number 3, Lord of the Rings A- Ghostbusters at number 2 And number 1, Indiana Jones Of Bally Williams I feel freaking ecstatic about that If I was going to own 10 pens A lot of Stern games in there I would like I mean Stern Yeah, you know You know what? I'm going to make this public I love Stern Pinball Machines I love them we talked about this on the phone before and to me there's a different feel to a Stern pinball machine than there is to a Jersey Jack, to a Spooky pinball, to an American pinball before the other pins feel quieter the materials maybe are better materials even, they're heavier but there's just nothing like a Stern pinball machine it feels like if i was it feels like comparing if i was a professional athlete i would always go back to the stern because it just it feels more regulation it feels right the other ones like a standard it's a gold standard the other ones might cruise like a cadillac and stuff but i just don't have as much control in a cadillac that i do just in a nice chevy corvette it just feels good on a stern pinball machine and i i honestly i i compare everything to a feel of the stern now. I agree. They don't make them like that. Even if they're cheaper materials and they're lighter, I guess I don't care. I want to play sterns.
    65:32
    Top ten for me. Coming in at number ten is that wide-ass Hobbit. What are you doing there? I can't wait to hear this top ten bullshit. This is greatness. Number ten is the Hobbit. B+. Walking Dead at number nine. B+. Number 8 is Lord of the Rings B+. Houdini? Number 7 B+. What are you smoking, Zach? Number 6 B+, Jurassic Park Pro. Now, I will tell you, if we go to rate that premium LE, you'll see that as an A pin in my top 5. Very likely.
    66:10
    Very likely. Number 5 pin. How does this even happen? Because I didn't review it. The Beatles at an A-. Number 4 Pirates of the Caribbean by Jersey Jack Pinball. My highest rated Jersey Jack Pinball. Number three, my love for Indiana Jones did not go away. Number three. Number two is Ghostbusters. My highest rated Stern Pinball machine at an A-. And coming in at a 3.87 A- is Bally Williams' The Shadow back in the 90s. Interesting how our top rated machine falls right in the Bally Williams 90s. So, How many of those pins do we have that are similar? We've got Walking Dead. Hold up. We've got Walking Dead. We've got Indiana Jones. We've got Ghostbusters. We've got Lord of the Rings. We've got Pirates of the Caribbean. You have Iron Maiden. I don't. You have Deadpool. I don't. You have Lost World. I don't. Jurassic Park is six. You have Metallica. That's a joke. And then that's a six. Six of the top ten. That's not bad, dude. That says something. It does say something. And the one that fell into our 11th position for both of us was Elvira.
    67:19
    That's crazy. Only going up for there. Our last or lowest rated pins. The bottom three for you are Rob Zombie at a B-. Beatles at a B-. And Black Rose at a B-. Black Rose might not be so deserving of that. Man, I'm the only one in this group that gives Cs. So my Cs are the Monsters Pro. how did I rate the Monsters Pro to C plus I didn't review that Lethal Weapon 3 to C plus Rob Zombie to C plus and that old stinky camel toe Baywatch at C minus you don't know it might be rosy oh my gosh alright Greg those are our grades and going forward I finally can sleep at night I'm not going to lose any sleep because I know they're all balanced you bitched about that for years I know. We can compare them equally now. So tell people, so we know what we're going to review, tell people what they need to do in the meantime. Follow us on YouTube. Follow us on Facebook. There's always nifty things happening there. There is. Check out our good friend Chuck. We're streaming great shit on Twitch. Okay, here's the upper down, plus or minus. plus or minus one video by Kerry Hardy by the time that we air this.
    68:44
    Minus. He's retracted them. Oh, we love you, Care Bear. So, yeah, check out the other SDTM members, Kerry Hardy and Chuck Wirt, Chuck Wirt Streaming Twitch. If you're ready to buy a brand-new pinball machine, buy it through myself. You will not regret it. I guarantee you that. At Flippin' Out Pinball, you can call me at 812-457-9711. and if you've got something you're interested in that you're hearing whisperings that it could come out, you probably need to get on the list now. It's not going to cost you anything. Just get on the list. I'm on the list. Absolutely. If it comes out, boom, you're already on the list. You're good to go. What else? Listen to me at the Pinball Show, a podcast on the Pinball Network, as well as checking out our sponsors, a little pin stadium, pinball play. Oh, Greg. What? I pinball plated the flock out of a new Tales of Arabian Nights. I know. I've rasted it it's a little sickening it is sickening and I got my chromed out Circus Voltaire all done now we're going to review those games we gotta review those I don't like them I say that but how do you not like Toten Toten's pretty good I won't lie it's pretty great Comet go buy some LEDs from my buddies over at comment. Greg's favorite thing to do. I actually need to put in a new order. I bought so many bulbs around Black Friday, and there's a bunch of shit I already need. I need to buy the headlights that you have back there. Yeah, my one fell down on Dress the Park. I need to put it back up there. Get the old duct tape out. I love that. I'll never not have headlighting on a pin again. Ever. Absolutely. So check out them pin graphics.
    70:26
    Everybody, check out everybody. And until next week, you want to tell them goodbye, Greg? adios who's back here playing around we gotta wave at her hey what's up girl hello oh Greg in a thug mode with his backwards hat on see you guys later you hit it off with a bumper now you're straight down the middle again you had a fling with a fling shot you're rolling out the island again I tried to cradle you with my flipper Hey, what are we doing today? Do you have any clue? I do. Well, I think I do. Because I've got like 20 pages pulled up on my computer here. I think we're doing the top 10 most overrated pinball machines. Actually, we're going to pause right there and we're going to start all the way over. No, what we're doing is updating the updates on our fucking reviews. So that is not what we're doing.