Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 161: This Week In Pinball Profile

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·38m 47s·analyzed·Oct 28, 2018
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

TWIP's Jeff Patterson discusses building pinball's premier news aggregation platform and community impact.

Summary

Jeff Patterson of This Week in Pinball joins Pinball Profile host Jeff Teolis for an extended interview covering Patterson's workflow, news curation methodology, source protection, the growth of TWIP from a 2-hour weekly project to a 30-40 hour/week operation, and broader community topics including Indiana's pinball scene, competitive play, and Star Wars Pinball's licensing constraints.

Key Claims

  • This Week in Pinball has grown from an intended 2-hour weekly project to consuming 30-40 hours per week

    high confidence · Jeff Patterson explicitly states his original plan was two hours on Sunday afternoons, but it expanded significantly. Teolis and Patterson both acknowledge the growth to approximately 30-40 hours weekly.

  • Patterson maintains a policy of not releasing information without 100% source approval, and even then may withhold if inappropriate

    high confidence · Patterson states: 'my main policy is if someone shares something with me, whoever the source is, I don't release anything about that unless I have their 100 percent approval.'

  • Patterson distinguishes between 'news' and 'rumors' on TWIP, with rumors reserved for Patreon LE subscribers when confidence is insufficient for public posting

    high confidence · Patterson explains he has 'room to believe that they're true' for rumors posted publicly, and maintains separate Patreon-exclusive content for lower-confidence items not 'twip-worthy.'

  • Patterson ranks 89th in IFPA world pinball rankings (may have dropped slightly)

    high confidence · Teolis looked up Patterson's ranking before the interview; Patterson confirms the ranking and indicates recent slight decline.

  • Star Wars Pinball suffered from strict licensing constraints that frustrated designers, particularly regarding audio/visual elements

    medium confidence · Patterson states: 'I got the feeling there was some frustration with the license being a little bit strict' and references Steve Ritchie later indicating he's 'done with licenses for a while.'

  • Indiana is a pinball hotbed with recent arcade improvements driving growth (Main Street Amusements in Lafayette, enhanced locations in Indianapolis)

    medium confidence · Patterson notes expansion from essentially one broken machine in downtown Indy to multiple locations with 5-10+ machines, citing Main Street Amusements and other operator improvements.

  • Patreon was established as a monetization solution after Patterson spent 30-40 hours weekly while working full-time, with reluctance to use ad-based models

Notable Quotes

  • “So in the beginning, my thought was I was going to spend two hours on Sunday afternoon and go through Pinside and just compile a list of one to five stories that I was going to put on this week in pinball.”

    Jeff Patterson @ ~12:00 — Establishes the modest origins of TWIP before its explosive growth, central to Patterson's origin story.

  • “It grew quite a bit from what I had initially planned on for sure.”

    Jeff Patterson @ ~13:30 — Understatement reflecting the scale of TWIP's expansion to 30-40 hours weekly.

  • “my main policy is if someone shares something with me, whoever the source is, I don't release anything about that unless I have their 100 percent approval.”

    Jeff Patterson @ ~20:30 — Core of Patterson's journalistic ethics and source protection strategy that maintains industry trust.

  • “if you do say, you know, there's a rumor that Jersey Jack is going to make prices right, well, people, if they read that, they don't think it's a rumor. They go with that and they'll say, hey, this week in pinball is reporting that Jersey Jack is doing prices right.”

    Jeff Patterson @ ~23:30 — Illustrates the challenge of responsibly reporting rumors when audience may disregard caveats, driving Patterson's conservative news filtering.

  • “It's this one? You're so close, Jeff. You're tied for second. My favorite one I've done by far is the one I did. It's not even pinball related in a way. It's just talking about David Taylor.”

    Jeff Teolis @ ~37:00 — Reveals Teolis' deepest value proposition: human connection and community relationships over game/business coverage.

  • “There is no, as a Harry Potter, huge Harry Potter fan, I have already accepted that if somebody gets the license and makes it, it will never live up to my expectations.”

    Jeff Patterson @ ~54:00 — Articulates the fundamental tension between hype and delivery on major IP licenses, using Harry Potter as the canonical example.

  • “The action button, I think you may know how I feel about that and the moving around of the multipliers.”

Entities

Jeff PattersonpersonJeff TeolispersonThis Week in Pinball (TWIP)organizationZach MinneypersonDavid TaylorpersonSteve RichiepersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinside forum contains toxic minority of users attacking unpaid content creators (Pinside Petey archetype); creators face harsh criticism despite significant volunteer labor

    high · Teolis describes Pinside Petey character mocking toxic users; references Nate/John Papaduke interview criticism ('I lost all respect'); Patterson defends Zach against forum attacks; both acknowledge forum harassment of podcasters

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball Profile positioned as intentional human-connection focused media rather than technical/business reporting; David Taylor episode highlighted as most meaningful for exploring community relationships

    high · Teolis identifies David Taylor episode (non-game-focused story) as personal favorite; describes family members writing to express meaning; positions Pinball Profile value as community relationship building

  • ?

    community_signal: TWIP and content creators receive significant community support via Patreon subscriptions despite creators' reluctance to monetize unpaid volunteer work

    high · Patterson states Patreon was established after reaching unsustainable 30-40 hour weekly commitment; Teolis confirms multiple creators use Patreon; community donations indicate widespread appreciation for content quality

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Action button implementation criticized as overused in recent games (Star Wars TIE fighters, Pirates collectible gold), representing problematic design trend away from pure flipper mechanics

    high · Both hosts express frustration with excessive action button usage; Patterson: 'I like the action buttons for when they're used in certain ways, but just the TIE fighters, I'm not a big fan of that type of use'

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.117

0:00
It's time now for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teoles. You can find our group on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at pinballprofile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. Please subscribe on either iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Play. Our next guest, if you've listened to any podcast, you need to tip your cap to this guy because almost every single podcast rips off this guy's hard, hard work, and they call it News of the Week. Well, it had to come from somewhere, and good chance it came from This Week in Pinball and Jeff Patterson. Jeff, how are you, buddy? Good. How are you doing? Notice I don't rip you off. I don't do News of the Week. Mine's all original content. I talk one-on-one. I don't rip you off. You do all the work. I give you credit. That's how it should be. Well, I do have to say the podcast also give me a lot of content.
1:01
Chicken and the egg thing. Yeah, it works both ways for sure. Yeah, I guess that's a good point too. And you know what? I do like that you credit all the different podcasts on there when you get your source. And it's got to be tough for you. By the way, first of all, doing this interview, because I think I asked you a year ago to come on and you were very, very reluctant. Finally, you eked into doing a podcast with Zach from straight down the middle. And even then you were like, I can't do this every week. So here you're on a podcast now with me. You're the one always doing the interviewing, and I'm interviewing you. This has got to be uncomfortable as heck for you. Yeah, maybe we'll go back and forth. I'll ask you some questions later on. Whatever your comfort level is, that's fine. That sounds good. Now, I know how many hours you put into This Week in Pinball, the website, Facebook, Twitter, every aspect of it. You have a regular job. This isn't like it's your full-time gig, but you probably put in the same amount of hours for This Week in Pinball as you do your regular job. Yeah, it's pretty close, and that's almost embarrassing a little bit, but I just like this. It does not seem like I put as much time into it because I really enjoy doing the This Week in Pinball and doing the website. So I do spend a ton of time on it. It's probably a little unfair to my wife at times. I need to figure out a way to take the time down a little bit. But, yeah, it does take a lot of time, but like I said, it doesn't feel like it because I do enjoy it a lot. So, Jeff, when you first started doing this, you couldn't imagine that it was so big and it was going to take up so much time. And I don't even know what your intent was when you first started doing this week in pinball. Was it just to maybe get a little bit of news or what was the idea when you first started? So in the beginning, my thought was I was going to spend two hours on Sunday afternoon and go through Pinside and just compile a list of one to five stories that I was going to put on this week in pinball. And from there, I started because at the time I was getting ready to travel to on a work trip and I was getting on the airplane. I was downloading the some podcast to catch up on. I was like, I got 15 pinball podcasts here and then get on Pinside and it's just so much Pinside and all the other forums and Twitch and YouTube. I wish somebody would just put all of this in one place and just hit the highlights. And that's kind of how the idea came. But I thought it would be just a couple hours a week initially. And it grew quite a bit from from what I had initially planned on for sure. Well, yeah, you had to get pretty excited about it. I mean, because people you noticed, like myself and others, were mentioning, hey, check out This Week in Pinball. Steve Bowden, for sure, was highlighting it on Fun with Bonus. And he's a guy who's kind of done it on a daily basis, but just kind of highlighting what's going on around the pinball world through the people he knows. But maybe not necessarily news, just maybe check out this podcast, check out this arcade. You were actually getting some of the scoops. Now, you said you got a lot of it off Pinside and also some of the podcasters as well. I can't believe you listened to 15. My goodness.

high confidence · Patterson states he doesn't like ads on websites and was uncomfortable requesting support initially, but reached a breaking point where 'something's got to give.'

  • Action button overuse, particularly in Star Wars TIE fighter sequences, represents problematic game design trend

    medium confidence · Both Teolis and Patterson express concern about excessive action button usage, with Teolis noting dissatisfaction with 'multiplier moving around' mechanics in Star Wars and Pirates comparisons.

    • Jeff Teolis @ ~66:00 — Identifies action button design philosophy as community pain point in recent premium games.

  • “He got back after driving Sunday for 10 hours and then recorded a podcast with somebody and stayed up until 2 in the morning editing the podcast, got up at 6 in the morning, and finished the podcast and got it to me.”

    Jeff Patterson (about Zach Minney) @ ~85:00 — Demonstrates the unseen labor intensity and personal sacrifice of podcast creators in pinball community.

  • “it's especially with, like, podcasters that aren't getting paid anything to do this. You know, Pinball News and I know when Nate interviewed, and this is kind of going off track here, but when Nate interviewed John Papaduke and, you know, people just posted, I lost all respect for him and his show.”

    Jeff Teolis @ ~104:00 — Highlights toxicity in Pinside forums toward unpaid community creators, raising concerns about sustainability of volunteer-driven media.

    • Star Wars Pinball
    game
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Straight Down The Middleorganization
    Dennis Cresoperson
    Main Street Amusementsorganization
    Indiana pinball sceneorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    Pinside Peteyperson
    Ben Wagnerperson
    Jeremy Packerperson
    Twippy Awardsevent
    Pinball Profileorganization
    Head to Head Pinball Podcastorganization
    IFPAorganization
    Keith Elwinperson
    Patreonorganization
    Pinball Newsorganization

    market_signal: Harry Potter pinball as canonical impossible-to-satisfy major IP license example; community consensus that high expectations guarantee disappointment regardless of execution quality

    medium · Patterson: 'There is no...way Harry Potter could live up to expectations' and 'that's impossible to be'; acknowledges multiple people hold incompatible visions of ideal machine

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Star Wars Pinball licensing restrictions created design constraints and designer frustration, with Steve Ritchie reportedly indicating exit from licensed properties

    medium · Patterson: 'I got the feeling there was some frustration with the license being a little bit strict' and references Ritchie 'done with licenses for a while' statement from interviews

  • $

    market_signal: Indiana emerging as pinball hotbed with arcade infrastructure improvements driving community growth (Lafayette Main Street Amusements, Indianapolis location expansion)

    medium · Patterson describes expansion from one broken Monopoly machine to multiple locations with 5-10+ machines; Main Street Amusements operates with 'perfect working order' machines; multiple prominent podcasters based in region

  • ?

    community_signal: TWIP foundation built on rigorous source protection (100% approval policy) and conservative news filtering to prevent rumor misattribution; demonstrates editorial maturity balancing transparency with responsibility

    high · Patterson articulates two-tier system: public news (high confidence) vs. Patreon rumors (lower confidence); explains rumor risk: people ignore 'alleged' caveats and attribute directly to TWIP

  • ?

    product_concern: Star Wars Pinball assessed as having limited gameplay depth and problematic action button mechanics despite designer pedigree; fails to achieve expectations for marquee IP license

    medium · Teolis: 'there's just not great gameplay in that' and 'I'm not a big fan of' TIE fighter action buttons; Patterson acknowledges Star Wars couldn't live up to hype similar to any major license

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Shift from TWIP as volunteer passion project to recognition of unsustainable labor model requiring Patreon monetization; industry acknowledges creator value through Twippy Awards and sponsorships

    high · Patterson: 'I'm way in the red right now' before Patreon; Teolis: 'I hope somebody's paying for that' and advocated for monetization; Twippy Awards indicate manufacturer recognition of TWIP's industry impact

  • ?

    technology_signal: Action button adoption growing as primary game mechanic rather than situational feature, representing potential industry-wide design philosophy shift away from flipper-centric play

    medium · Both hosts reference Star Wars and Pirates examples; Patterson notes concern is broader trend not isolated to single title; suggests design trend rather than one-off implementation

    • 4:03
    It's probably more than that now. Yeah, it's way more now, right? Yeah, there's a bunch. I, like yourself, have talked to some of the game designers, and when they hear podcasters or in the news of some sort talk about the upcoming titles, and you've got that on This Week in Pinball, they're kind of shocked. They're like, okay, how do they know this? And I obviously don't want to reveal your sources, but how do you determine which is news and which is a rumor? Yeah, it's really tough to know how to deal with information. So at first, people are very reluctant to trust you in certain, which is obviously the way it should be. I've gained the trust now through my main policy is if someone shares something with me, whoever the source is, I don't release anything about that unless I have their 100 percent approval. and even in some cases when I do have their approval, if I don't think it's appropriate, then I won't release whatever the news is. As far as news versus rumors, it's a tough, getting into it, I thought, well, I'm only going to do news on this. I'm not going to get into the rumors. But so much of what is in, because right now, I wouldn't talk about Munsters because Stern hasn't confirmed that, you have to walk kind of a fine line there. and it's on a case-by-case basis on what is quote news and what are rumors. And I've also, I will say this too, I've also found that if you do say, you know, there's a rumor that Jersey Jack is going to make prices right, well, people, if they read that, they don't think it's a rumor. They go with that and they'll say, hey, this week in pinball is reporting that Jersey Jack is doing prices right. So it's kind of like you just have to be careful with what you put out there. So rumors that I put on the website now, I have room to believe that they're true. It's not just from some random person that just told me something. I do have an LE subscriber thing where I share stuff that is not twip-worthy, if you will, some things that are just rumors that I don't have enough confidence in them to actually put them on the website. And that's part of your Patreon, which I'm glad you're doing. And I remember telling you when you first started doing this and the hours increased and increased. And then you even did the Twippy Awards. I'm like, I hope somebody's paying for that. And you're like, no, no, no. I'm like, dude, these manufacturers are really big into this. I mean, look at how they got excited about this kind of thing. You should get a buck for this. Maybe it's a sponsor or something. You said, I'm working on that. And I'm glad you did Patreon because there are a lot of people there that certainly enjoy what you do and want to give back. So I'm glad that's happening. And others do it as well. It's had to be hard, I can imagine, to ask at first, but you're giving something, maybe you can get something back. What was your kind of thought in the Patreon? Yeah, it was really awkward for me. I don't like ads on websites. And I also didn't want to appear that I was begging for support or anything. But it kind of got to the point where, especially when I was getting into 30, 40 hours a week where I'm thinking, all right, I'm spending all this time. I'm way in the red right now. I got to at least try to get back to even on this, you know, so, you know, at least break even. And then if I can get a little something for the time that, you know, that every little bit helps. So, but yeah, it was very awkward and I, I hate, I don't know. I just, it's, it's not really my personality to ask for that stuff. But at this point, I just got to a point where I thought I have to do something's got to give here. So I'm glad you did it. And here I am giving you awkward questions. You're usually on the other side of the mic. Come on this program. All right. Time to relieve your tension just a little bit. Back to what you do best. You can ask a question or two. Go ahead. Okay. I've got a few for you. So you have, is it 159 episodes now? Right around there? Maybe 160? Sure. Okay, something around there. And what was your favorite episode that you've done so far? I know that, I got to say that Kaylee George, one of the recent ones, was my favorites. But you've had, you know, Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons, Ed Robertson. Do you have a favorite episode? Yes, I do, actually. And no one's ever asked me that question, but it's a very, very, very easy answer. It's this one?
    8:39
    You're so close, Jeff. You're tied for second. Okay. My favorite one I've done by far is the one I did. It's not even pinball related in a way. It's just talking about David Taylor. And I know it's recent and it's maybe easy for me to say that, but it really is because that is, in a nutshell, why I do Pinball Profile. To know more about the people in pinball. And this is a guy I met by doing a podcast that reached out to me that became a good friend and somebody you look forward to seeing when you go to different events. and not a lot of people have a podcast to be able to share their feelings about anybody. I'm lucky that I have that opportunity and others came and joined and sent me notes. And his sister, who I've never met, wrote me a lovely note about how much that meant. Because think of his family, even his wife, Eileen. They didn't get to see him do these kind of pinball events other than probably locally in Birmingham, Alabama. And he went out to all he had this not secret life He had this other world of friendships that no one knew that he was so important to in the pinball community So that really meant a lot to me sentimentally I know it's recent, but I think that'll go down as something that means the most to me. Yeah, I listened to that episode. I didn't have the chance to know David, but that episode was tough to listen to without tearing up a little bit. And it was neat that you called, you know, had some people call in. And that was definitely a special one to listen to. Thanks, Jeff. They're all special to me because some of the people I know very well and some of the people I don't know very well, but they've reached out to me and I want to get to know them and have since got to know them. So it's a really unique community. Like it's weird to be able to say I can go into almost every city, major city in the United States, probably Canada, and say, I probably know somebody or vice versa and have some sort of connection. So I'm never really a stranger now. It's kind of neat that way.
    10:41
    Yeah. And you're probably in the same boat too. Yeah. It's, I mean, meeting people or the, I find when I go to shows, you know, I went to Texas Pinball Festival for the first time this year and I spent most of the time just hanging out with people and it was a blast. You go there, I was thinking I'm going to play all this pinball. But then you get in the exhibit hall, and you'll play a game here and a game there. But it's just fun to meet people. I've said it before, and normally I go to these type of events for the pinball tournaments. I will play in the pinball tournaments, but I'm looking forward to the shows and the seminars, plus all the people, too, and the free play. Now, here's another question for you. Your current pinball ranking, I looked this up before you called because I figured I had to throw a few questions your way. but you are 89th in the world. Is that correct? Did I drop? Damn it. Were you higher than that? Not by much, but a little bit. Yeah, sure. Don't worry. I'm coming back, baby. So are you the best-ranked podcaster? Well, I mean, is there another one that has... The quick answer is you're damn right I am.
    11:50
    The modest answer is you're damn right I am. But the truth is if you count Stephen Bowden and the meltdown, down, which is really just him drunk calling, I guess Steven would be the best. I got you. See, I wanted a three of softball there.
    12:08
    Thanks. But Steven doesn't have the knee problem that you have right now, right? Well, he's fit as a fiddle. He's a lucky man. I mean, he just turned 40. I can't remember turning 40. It's been a while. Yeah.
    12:19
    How is the knee, by the way? It's doing fine. I'm waiting for surgery. So, listen, if I play terrible it's killing me if I'm doing all right it's yeah it all depends on my play you know how that goes I hear you for sure so I wonder where this passion of asking questions came for you for me it's part of my job right and it's different than what your job is so were you like a high school reporter or something like that did you do kind of yearbook stuff what was it for you no I didn't do any interviews or any type of reporting or anything like that. I actually, I wanted to build a website, but I wanted to figure out, cause I kind of got into doing, um, some learning about HTML and, uh, different ways of web design and things like that. And, uh, and I just wanted to build like a basic website. And so I built a couple and I thought, well, this is not, you know, I'm not really building anything interesting here. But then when I got the idea for Twip, it kind of just became a creative outlet. And it's a new thing. You know, honestly, when I do interviews, when I started, I was looking up what's the common, like, courtesy with interviews and questions and things like that. Just wanted to try to be as professional as possible in that. But I don't have a I do it more for, like I said, a creative outlet to just the writing. And I know that 90 plus percent of what I do on Twip is is objective. But I do I like to write, you know, I'm always working on some article that I might or might not put up on a on a random day. That's, you know, all the reasons for a Harry Potter pinball machine or just some fun, silly stuff like that. that's just, I don't know, I enjoy your creative aspect of it, and that's kind of how I got into it. You, like many people, talk about that famed Harry Potter-themed machine that would be a great license to have, and I can't argue that for sure, but because that's maybe one of the big licenses that's out there that would be a no-brainer to make into a pinball machine, do you think the expectation would be so high that it might cause for disappointment? Absolutely. There is no, as a Harry Potter, huge Harry Potter fan, I have already accepted that if somebody gets the license and makes it, it will never live up to my expectations. And it's just, that's because it's impossible to be. And it's kind of the chase for the perfect pinball machine, you know, that everybody wants to know what's around the corner. And it's a quest for the perfect pinball machine that doesn't exist, but that's it's every new pinball machine has some some redeeming factors and uh but no i don't think the harry potter one would ever i know it would never live up to the hype for me i just have to be like honest with myself it would never because the only way i'd like seven different ones for each oh gosh each movie each book and uh even then i know that i'd be like well this wasn't done quite as how I would have done it. So it's just, it's the nature of it, but I'd be thrilled with any Harry Potter machine, but I know that it's not, it's just like, uh, any big license is going to have going to have a tough time. I mean, you look at star Wars. I don't think that, that there's a way that star Wars could have lived up to, to the hype that it had before it came out from Stern. It there's just those huge licenses. People just have this, uh, you just get this in your head on it's going to be people are too close to it and they have in their head they want this and they want this and they want this and they want this and it's it's never going to be what you have in your mind and thousands of people all have different things in their mind of what it should be so it's tough for manufacturers to live up to uh you know the expectations in that regard i think star wars might have been a little bit better and you know how i love steve richie so i'm certainly not knocking him or anyone at stern for that matter it's just there's just not great gameplay in that. The action button, I think you may know how I feel about that and the moving around of the multipliers. Yeah, we're on the same page with the action button. I am not at overuse of the action buttons, whether it's Star Wars or collecting gold in the New Jersey Jack pirates. I like the action buttons for when they're used in certain ways, but just the TIE fighters, I'm not a big fan of that type of use of the action buttons. As far as Star Wars, I think it was, you could hear in the interviews, it sounded like after it was released that there was definitely frustration on, and I'm reading into it, I shouldn't put words in somebody else's mouth, but I got the feeling there was some frustration with the license being a little bit strict, which it's Star Wars. They're not going to let you do whatever you want with it, obviously. But even after Steve Ritchie was talking about he's done with licenses for a while. So yeah, it's a fun game, though. It's fun to shoot. It shoots like a Steve Ritchie game. I don't know the multiplier. I honestly, I don't play for score, which I know is for somebody that's ranked top 100 in the world, you've got to be thinking, what? But I don't move multipliers. I don't play for score.
    18:03
    And maybe I will someday if I get more into the competitive scene. But right now, I just play to progress through the game. Jeff, you are like a lot of people in that way because not everyone plays in competition. In fact, quite a few of them do not. They're collectors. They just maybe play in a fun league. Maybe it's not even IFPA. I'm not necessarily in that mindset. I certainly like to play for fun as well and do at home. I think there's something about competition to me. Maybe it's just years of sports and it's now translated into pinball and always trying to be the best you can be. But, you know, there's certainly times when I just like to play goofy games. I heard of some fun ones, too, that my buddies have done where they'll play a pinball machine wearing boxing gloves or they'll put something over the flippers like Tommy the Shield. And I think that's really, really cool. I get into that kind of stuff, too. I think there are more people out there that are probably in that scene, although there are a lot of people that are competitive players. Just look at the IFPA and the 63,000 players they now have. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I've played competitively. I am, when you say there's 63,000, I'm probably closer to 60,000 than I am to 10,000. But I did play competitively because when I I wanted to get more into pinball in some some way And my first thought was Oh maybe I going to be the next Keith Elwin So I went to a local tournament and it was my first one and at the time I owned a Stern Star Trek machine, and I knew the ins and outs, and I got paired up with this guy who I didn't know at the time, but he was number two in Indiana. And I got paired up with him, and I got to choose which machine. We were at an arcade, so I chose – it was a Star Trek Premium, but I chose a Star Trek. And he, on his first ball, put up what would have been the grand champion score on my Star Trek. And that's when I thought, maybe I'm not going to be the next Keith Allen. so no but it's and that i would say that the competition is when you get into that where every plunge matters it that is a fun intense feeling um i just wish i was a little bit better at pinball did you have some kind of sports background because i know you're a baseball fan like i am i obviously enjoy the blue jays you're a big white socks fan and there's actually a bit of a connection there too because the toronto blue jays have a play-by-play announcer who just took over this year. He had done AAA for years and years and years in Buffalo. His name is Ben Wagner, great guy, and a guy you've known for many years. He's, I guess, an Indiana guy. Yes, we went to the same high school. And that reminds me, Ben Wagner actually went to the same high school as Jeremy Packer, Zombie Eddie. We all three went to the same high school. But Ben Wagner was in the same – I have a brother that was a grade below me, and Ben Wagner was in his grade. So he was better friends with my brother.
    21:12
    But, yeah, Ben was a friend of ours, and I know that you had just talked to him recently. He was one of the, I think, few people that I think he knew what he wanted to do from the time he was young because he has been into sports casting and calling games since I can remember. And yeah, as far as being into sports, the background, I was definitely into sports. Golf was probably my—I went to a very small school. Golf was probably my best sport, but I also played basketball and football and tennis and baseball a little bit when it didn't overlap with golf. Yeah, I kept busy with the sports seasons, and I think that's part of why the competition is so much fun with pinball. but I've got to get better. Maybe I need to turn off the 15-second ball saves on my machine at home. You said you played some basketball in Indiana. Isn't that law? Like if you don't, they kick you out of the state? Oh, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, you're pretty much forced to play basketball here. But what is it about pinball in Indiana? Because it does seem like a real hotbed. You know yourself, the straight-down-the-middle guy, Zach and Greg, this flipping podcast, Tommy and Taylor. What is it about Indiana? Is it just because it's so close to Illinois and all the game companies there? You know, I'm not sure. I think that so when I got into pinball, we in downtown Indy, I'm close to Indianapolis, and we had basically one pinball machine in downtown Indy, and it was a half-broken monopoly that was not even worth putting a quarter into because it was one of those location machines that just, you know, the flippers were super weak and the switches didn't work all the time. Don't worry, the working ones suck too.
    23:13
    I hate Monopoly, sorry. But now we have a handful of locations that have maybe 5 to 10 plus machines where Tommy is up in Lafayette, And that was until, like, last year, had the largest arcade in the state. So that kind of got, I think, helped. I'm sure it helped Tommy get into pinball more because the guy up there, Dan, he runs the Main Street Amusements. And that's where I played in competitions there. And he keeps all of his games up to perfect working order. And then Bud, who runs the locations down in Indy now, I mean, he keeps his games in pristine condition, too. So it makes it fun to go out and play. But, yeah, I don't know why. I don't know how Zach and Greg got into it. I had bought a machine off of Zach before either of us were into, you know, anything pinball media related, I guess. But, yeah, we were both definitely passionate about pinball. And, yeah, just it kind of takes off.
    24:15
    Zach and you have obviously a great friendship, and it's interesting to hear that. It is before you guys both started your podcasts and streams and websites. Now you have joined forces for This Week in Pinball podcast. I know you've backed away a little bit. You've had some guest hosts on there. It's a great show. Great IDs, by the way. I don't know how you did that. That came home run. The best in the business.
    24:38
    Actually, now what I'm doing, what I'm working on, so I was working on This Week in Pinball today, and I get to this week's top five stories, and I do it in a Teal's voice. As I'm reading it, I'm proofreading this, and it says, and I just read it in a tealist voice. I can't help it. It's stuck. Well, thanks. It's fun to be a part of that. And by the way, thank you for the invite to come on and guest host. I will do that soon. In fact, you asked me this week. It was very, very kind. Thank you. It means a lot to me and I'll definitely do it. I just thought, well, I was just on Slam Tilt podcast. It probably would be a little bit of overkill. I'd be sick of hearing me. So, you know, we'll give some other people a chance to do it. And one of the guys that does it all the time, Dennis Creso from Eclectic Gamers podcast, a very, very knowledgeable and funny person. Not only does he help on this week in pinball podcasts, but he's also done some great articles for you, too, on the website. Yeah, Dennis is phenomenal. And let me go back to Zach, too, because Zach gets a lot of crap on the forums. What? He buys machines. Oh, and then flips them right away. And flips them. You can call it what, well, flips them. A lot of times he flips them for a loss. But he does. He goes through machines quickly. So what? You know what? This is one of the things. So hold on. Let me defend Zach. I'm fine with that because what he's doing is unboxing. He has a lot of fun with that. He does a great stream for it. And then he gives somebody probably, like you say, a deal on a machine that you know is only a couple days old. Who cares? Keep doing it, Zach. Yeah. Yeah, and I hope that he keeps doing it because he is one of the, you know, he does so much work. I mean, the amount of hours, I would say that the number of hours that he puts in is every bit as much as the number of hours that I put in. He works, and he's got, I don't know how, but he's got four kids also. So he's doing all that work on top of more family obligations and things like that. Ah, so he's a lousy parent. That's what it is.
    26:48
    That's what you're saying. I'm reading between the lines here. Jeff, I got it. Example, last weekend, he went on vacation, and he was getting back. I think he was getting back Sunday, and I sent him the podcast material. He got back after driving Sunday for 10 hours and then recorded a podcast with somebody and stayed up until 2 in the morning editing the podcast, got up at 6 in the morning, and finished the podcast and got it to me. I'm telling him, don't worry about not doing it this week. But he just, I mean, he spends so much time on this and he makes entertaining content. So it is, sometimes for me, it's tough to see when people are on the forum saying, eh, that was crap. It's like, man, you don't know what he went through to get this up, to get this content. And, you know, he spends a lot of time and energy on it. And going back to Dennis, too, Dennis is – I met him at Texas Pinball Festival. And he was talking to Zach. And I was just – and we were all talking. But – and just kind of, you know, Dennis is a – can be, like, you know, sarcastic and stuff like that. And he and Zach talking back and forth, I thought, man, that would be a great podcast. because – and when I started the podcast, I told Dennis, open invite with him because he's great. Like he has strong opinions and he has great chemistry with Zach on there. And it's fun to listen to. There are several. I mean, Zach does a good job. Man, I'm really talking Zach up. I don't want him to be like the – he says the voice of This Week in Pinball. I'm not for that. But he does a really good job of he can gel with a lot of different types of personalities. Oh, we'll see. I'll bring him down to size. Yours is going to be interesting, though, because the voiceover is going to be the smooth and buttery Jeff Teolis. And then we're going to come back from that, and it's going to be the smooth and buttery Jeff Teolis. I'll make you some fake IDs for that, you know, where we're just like, top five.
    29:00
    News of the week. We have a pin PD or something Pinside Petey I going to have to retire that guy pretty soon Yeah No I say keep him coming He can encapsulate some frustrations I love that he hates every podcast. Not everyone. Except for Mrs. P. He might have a little crush on Mrs. P.
    29:22
    Well, that's not surprising. He's Pinside Petey. And she's awesome. Is it Petey Pinside or Pinside Petey? Okay, listen. You're making it sound like I'm Pinside Petey. There's obviously, there's no way that's true. I know. It's kind of like how Peter Parker had access to Spider-Man. Do you know what I mean? So from what I know of Pinside PD, who was created on Head to Head Pinball Podcast, he was making fun of the Pinsiders, not Pinside the website, but the Pinsiders who just attack everyone. Like you talked about attacking Zach for things, just were constantly complaining about people. And what they were doing was they were doing reviews on Iron Maiden. and someone said, I hate the band, I give it a 1 out of 10, which has nothing to do with the game, nothing. But now that rating affects the rating on Iron Maiden. So they were making fun of how stupid that is, and I thought, well, let's create this Pinside Petey guy. Sorry, did I say create it? What do you mean? I mean, maybe there's this Pinside Petey guy. Yeah, exactly. There's this guy out there who just hates on everything. So he has heckled and emailed certain podcasts. I think he made a quick appearance even on Slam Tilt just recently, And I'll be very, very honest with you. I'm scared of him. I am a little scared of him, too. I'm hoping that he never takes his wrath out on this week in pinball. If he finds your website or your Facebook page, yeah, it's a matter of time. It's just a matter of time. And I love Pinside. I've had tons of help on Pinside, but there are a few people that just will— Hate for the sake of hating. Yeah, yeah. And it's especially with, like, podcasters that aren't getting paid anything to do this. You know, Pinball News and I know when Nate interviewed, and this is kind of going off track here, but when Nate interviewed John Papaduke and, you know, people just posted, I lost all respect for him and his show. and he's like 190 episodes in, and this is not what he does for a job.
    31:29
    And there's nothing wrong with having opinions, but it can be brutal in there at times. It's just, it can be brutal. Thank you for saying that, because that's a great point. Whether it's Coast to Coast, whether it's Pinball Profile, whether it's any podcast, I don't think any of us expect everyone to like everything we do. The topic might not be of interest, so they just avoid it. Feel free to do that, but you might hear somebody you don't like. That doesn't mean the podcaster's at fault or even siding with them. It's just giving their point of view. I like to think of what I do, and I think others do too, of here's the wide spectrum of everybody in pinball. From the far left to the far right, from the elite to the noob, it doesn't matter. And you pick and choose. That is what the pinball community is. So as much as I've done some episodes that have been interesting, like you mentioned, Kaylee George, that one certainly got thousands and thousands of downloads. Andre Massinkoff was another one that had that. I'll do unique stories about people that you've never heard about, and they might not be as downloaded, but they're still downloaded quite a bit. So there must be some interest there, or they certainly like maybe, maybe, heaven forbid, they like the style of the interview. That could be something, or they want to learn something about somebody. Right. When they did that or any interview or anybody, any podcaster does a topic. Remember, they're doing this on their own time. It's free. So here's another perfect, perfect example here is Martin from Pinball News, who has been providing free pinball content for 20 years. incredible content, incredible website. And he makes his first post on Pinside, was asking about, he said he's going to interview Andrew Highway and wants, if anybody has any suggestions for questions that they want answered, which is a completely legit thing to do. And it was, he got crushed for it on Pinside. And yeah, it's one of those things. I mean, the guy has literally been doing it for 20 years. He is like some of those guys, you know, the, the, the nakeshivers, Martin's pinball news these guys that were the front runners on all this it's tough to see when people criticize them in unfair ways I guess I should say you've got to take the bad with the good right? yeah for sure I'd be lying if I said oh boy I get great reviews I know there are people that like what I do but I also know there are people that I just am not their style it's not what they want there's no news Oh, yeah, absolutely. What are you going to do? You can't please everyone. It's impossible to do that. No, and it's completely fine. It's totally fine. If you don't like it, don't read it. Don't listen to it. But I would interview absolutely anybody, whether I like them or not, whether I believe in them or not. It would be just good to hear their point of view. And that doesn't mean it's an endorsement by me. It's just getting their side of the story. Yeah. And I know with this weekend, I try to be objective. I'll cover, it doesn't matter who it is, if they have news or something newsworthy, then I'll cover it. So I don't want to exclude anyone. We talked a little bit earlier about that trust factor that you have with some of the distributors and the manufacturers. Do you sign any NDAs? I have not yet. I have offered to sign NDAs in certain situations, but I've kind of built a trust with most of the manufacturers so far. So I haven't signed any NDAs, but I also don't release things that I think would be over the line or anything like that. But no, I have not signed any NDAs yet. When you just went to San Antonio and you went to Deep Root and you got a great look at that facility, which I think we're all excited to see, were there things you've obviously held back? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, there's, I mean, most of it. And I was actually, when I went down there, I was not planning on doing an article about it. I just wanted to tour it. And I had talked to Robert initially, and I said, hey, I would love to do an article on this, obviously, because I knew the pinball community would be interested in it. But I would love to do an article on this. But I don't know if I know that because they are very busy. They're trying to get everything ready. and initially I don't think Robert was very interested in me doing an article so I did the tour thinking that I wasn't going to do an article and we got to the end and he mentioned you know if you want to write something up feel free so I talked to him a little bit about what was off limits and what was you know okay to share but I always err on the side of not sharing but yeah there was a there was a lot that I was that I could not share on that it was very exciting I'm looking forward to Texas Pinball Festival and Deep Root launching. I hope that their manufacturing and everything can get up to speed and I hope they succeed. Everyone I've talked to has that same excitement too and some big wigs in the industry. So there must be something there and I'm looking forward to that too when the five days of Deep Root happen. Do you think they're going to be able to meet their deadlines? I don't know that they will and I don't know that they won't. I can't really, and I hate to just hedge my bets. I don't know enough about the manufacturing process to even make a guess on if they will meet their deadlines. So I can only base things on every startup has struggled with manufacturing. Now, DeepRoot is a little bit different in, they seem to have more backing and a little bit, I mean, they're more organized than some of the other. They have a plan in place for manufacturing and things like that. So I would say that their chances of success are better than some of the other startups. But I'm fairly ignorant on what all that takes. So I don't know one way or the other if they will meet it. But I do think that I hope they do just because I think it is the same with Jersey Jack. The competition has been great for consumers. Jersey Jack came in and then Stern has been stepping things up. And it's just the competition and the options that you get in pinball now as a hobbyist, which is what I am, it's phenomenal. I like it too. Jeff, thanks for everything you do with This Week in Pinball. We certainly look forward to it when it comes out on Mondays. And then you've got kind of little tidbits throughout the week. We enjoy that. Keep up the great work. And if you like what he does, help him out on Patreon too. Jeff, thanks a lot. Hey, I appreciate it. Good talking to you. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find us on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at Pinball Profile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com and please subscribe on either iTunes, Stitcher or Google Play. I'm Jeff Teoles.
    38:40
    Thank you.