The Pinball Show Ep 98: Stairway To Hydra, Chewbacca Jesus, & Spirit Pudding

The Pinball Network·video·1h 54m·analyzed·Apr 30, 2022

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Stern production updates, market analysis, and Deep Root whiteboard merchandise dominate episode 98.

Summary

Episode 98 of The Pinball Show covers Stern production updates (Rush code v0.93, Deadpool shipping in May, toppers delayed), American Pinball catalog changes, Deep Root's leaked Gladiator whiteboard inspiring merchandise, and industry market trends. Hosts Zach Sharpe and Dennis Kriesel discuss rising pinball prices driven by sustained demand, supply chain constraints, and labor-intensive manufacturing, with Craig Bobby arguing the "pin bubble" won't burst.

Key Claims

Deadpool Pro and Premium production begins first week of May at Stern
high confidence · Dennis Kriesel citing production schedule; stated as fact during production updates segment
Stern has 6-8 thousand unit backorders for Godzilla, Rush, Mandalorian, and Deadpool combined, valued at $30-50 million
high confidence · Craig Bobby citing industry estimates in market trends segment
Lead Zeppelin toppers are currently being run again due to sustained backorders
high confidence · Dennis Kriesel citing word-on-the-street production intel
Mandalorian, Godzilla, and Rush toppers have no announced release date, pricing, features, or visuals
high confidence · Dennis Kriesel and Craig Bobby, stated repeatedly throughout production update
Rush code v0.93 adds Cygnus X1 Book One Voyage wizard mode, challenge modes, clock bonus, and hidden Insider Connected features
high confidence · Craig Bobby listing specific code additions; verifiable through patch notes
Pinball prices will not decrease despite improving supply chains and rising interest rates due to sustained demand and labor intensity
medium confidence · Craig Bobby's market analysis opinion; prediction based on economic reasoning
Only approximately 30% of Deadpool Pro/Premium backorders at Flipping Out will be fulfilled in May shipment
high confidence · Dennis Kriesel estimate for his dealership's pre-orders; specific, quantified claim
Stern needs an estimated 2 years of production to clear current backorders for previously released titles
medium confidence · Craig Bobby calculation based on production capacity and order volume; estimation/prediction

Notable Quotes

“they're going to build a hydra it's going to be a real hydra”
Zach Sharpe (describing Deep Root Gladiator whiteboard notes)@ 7:55 — Humorous misinterpretation of Deep Root's design philosophy from leaked planning document; spawned merchandise
“the horse is so far out of the barn on pricing for both new and used titles that it's like daydreaming about real estate prices in new york city back in the 1970s those days are over people”
Craig Bobby@ 22:31 — Key market sentiment: prices structural, not cyclical; establishes no 'pin bubble' thesis
“probably about 30 percent [of backorders fulfilled]”
Dennis Kriesel @ ~56:00 — Concrete fulfillment rate expectation; reveals magnitude of unfulfilled demand
“mandate to find a real hydra they're going to build a hydra it's going to be a real hydra”
Zach Sharpe@ 7:55 — Comical takeaway from Deep Root's Gladiator planning; core inspiration for new merchandise
“stern is long overdue for some sort of topper related announcement... stern just show us the trailers already”
Craig Bobby@ 15:26 — Frustration with lack of transparency on delayed topper announcements; year-long wait for Mandalorian

Entities

Zach Sharpeperson Dennis KrieselpersonCraig BobbypersonStern PinballcompanyAmerican Pinballcompany Deep Root PinballcompanyFlipping Out PinballcompanyThe Pinball Networkorganization

Signals

?
product_launch: Deadpool Pro/Premium production begins first week of May 2024; April Rush Pro/Premium shipments underway
high · Dennis Kriesel: 'in may first week of may they're gonna start throwing those deadpool pro and premiums onto the production line at stern pinball'
$
market_signal: Estimated 6-8k combined backorders for Godzilla, Rush, Mandalorian, Deadpool worth $30-50M; unfulfilled for 2+ years at current production capacity
high · Craig Bobby: 'demand on titles of previous releases like godzilla rush the mandalorian and deadpool are estimated to be six to eight thousand units deep at stern with total backorders valued somewhere between 30 and 50 million dollars'
?
product_concern: Mandalorian, Godzilla, Rush toppers approaching/exceeding 1-year delay with zero announcement on features, pricing, or release
high · Craig Bobby: 'it's now coming on one year in may if you can believe it since the mandalorian was first released' and 'not only do we not know when they're coming out we don't know what they look like we don't know the pricing we don't know the features nothing'
?
code_update: Rush v0.93 adds Cygnus X1 Book One Voyage wizard mode, challenge modes, clock bonus, hidden Insider Connected feature, and numerous balance/bug fixes
high · Craig Bobby: 'contains numerous game enhancements including the long-awaited cygnus x1 book one the voyage wizard mode challenge mode clock bonus feature'
?
manufacturing_signal: Lead Zeppelin toppers currently being manufactured due to sustained year-long backorder demand; Led Zeppelin game not on 2024 production schedule

Topics

Production Updates & Supply ChainprimaryBackorder Fulfillment & Pricing TrendsprimaryDeep Root Gladiator Design & MerchandiseprimaryStern Code Updates (Rush v0.93)primaryTopper Availability & DelaysprimaryMarket Sentiment & Price SustainabilitysecondaryAmerican Pinball Catalog ChangessecondaryCommunity Engagement (TPN Babies Contest)secondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Positive on game availability momentum and code quality (Rush update enthusiasm), but frustrated with topper delays and skeptical of pricing trends. Craig Bobby's market analysis is pragmatic and grounded. Deep Root discussion is humorous/self-aware rather than hostile. Strong community spirit evident in TPN Babies contest framing.

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

warning the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats listener discretion is advised [Music] the pinball network is online launching the pinball show the most listened to pinball podcast is back this week with episode 98 where dennis and i talk about rising pinball action what's cooking at stern pinball this week significant change is coming to american pinball's game catalog dennis's reaction to the deep root files poor dirk standing their arms crossed as his body turns into a skeleton and his bones just crumble to the ground to infinity and beyond with expectations of jersey jack's new game release pinball market trends potato portraits chewbacca jesus robert's deep failed cabinet innovation stairway to hydra and something big brewing at flippin out pinball damn i love this show [Music] it's time for the pinball show ah very fitting isn't it for this week's episode of the pinball show we're in episode 98 we are your hosts zach minnie and dennis kriesel from the eclectic gamers podcast you're back from your glorious discussions of all things deep root normal regular vanilla show i was really deep root in it as well and um i taking a break this week is going to be okay we'll touch on a little bit of deep root stuff but um how have you been i've been all right it was nice to you know step away and just listen learn new things learn new things about production learn new things about pinball and maybe even learn new things about myself some might say you've learned a little bit about your inner spirit animal i'm roared so i i'm not sure what the spirit like is this something you talked about in market trends or something you didn't even listen to the episode 97 did you i listened to most of it i listened to the good part damn it i knew it i just i knew it we were talking about uh blueberry johnson bj and i were talking about uh spirit animals and what type of animal different designers or different pinball celebrities like yourself would be and we we kind of got stumped with you like what animal if dennis were an animal what would he be and a lot of people messaged me after episode 97 listener and they said a dead giveaway this is easy dennis is easily the honey badger why that doesn't make any sense to me well they said i'm just as you know as the people not you know and i don't know why they say these things zach but i'm the second nicest person in pinball isn't the honey badger don't give no [ __ ] well the honey badger is sweet but he's still bold he's still got clothes when i don't know i don't know i don't that's how spirit animal discussion that you've brought up is i don't see the point in it so let's say that oh god here we go let's just say that my spirit animal would be the raven so that we can talk about this nevermore smallest victory okay well you know what and i did say in the episode see you and i are in sync damn we're so good i did say that your spirit animal feels uh feels like it's in the bird family and i said you know the owl's totally that's a low [Applause] fruit yours is more of a a raptor i i forgot what i a story no it is not a stork you're not a crane you're in the bird family does the spirit animal have to be a real animal can i be a hydra oh actually there are hydras but they're very small little things oh really that you look at under microscopes yeah i didn't know if a platypus was real or not but speaking of hydras you yourself have just released a new merchandise item that can be found where can they find that again over with uh yeah it's over at teespring i have the link on the egp facebook but we have a teespring store with egp so i just went ahead and dropped in there because you know this is this is pinball zach i got to exploit the discussions for monetary gain right i mean is that what people do uh so no this was i didn't want to do this zach i'm not here we go of course no no no wanted joel inglebirth to do this and i had been on one of his uh live streams i think i don't think it was just i think it was one where he had a set like i think craig bobby i remember it was very news correspondent it's very good yeah so we were going over information on the nap arcade site and they had one of the posts jason and one of those deep root posts was up and this was the first time i had seen what i call the whiteboard i know they had multiple whiteboards but this is the whiteboard about that game gladiator they were working on you remember that game i do remember and now there are photos that have come out with all these details about gladiator i'm not interested so much in the layout i was interested in the whiteboard and the whiteboard just really emphasizes how they had to have a hydra in this game and there was going to be all this this rising action you had to have rising action you couldn't just start with a hydra you have to have rising term right there enough right to achieve yes to achieve hydra and so i this is my interpretation of that white board i've taken my own creative liberties with it it's not the deep root whiteboard this is my version of rising action no whiteboard ip infringement here okay no but you know i learned so much from that whiteboard yeah i know the i have my own i have a linear line guard because i believe in writing action being a linear progression but one of the best things that i took away from that whiteboard besides understanding the value of the hydra itself zach is that when you're coming to rules and pinball the first round that's easy but the second round zach that round is hard for the listeners that uh are unaware so you gotta look at it look this shirt is going to appeal to no one zach because you have to know the white board to even care about any of the subject matter so i spent several hours and i did my own design of it i purchased it it's it's wonderful and on that whiteboard it said like what does it say it says what your the t-shirt says it's like it starts out easy but then it progresses to be more harsh no the whiteboard in and of itself is great i actually it's better than the shirt the whiteboard talked about how there would be levels to this game slave to gladiator to general to emperor there's one part where it goes if we're going to make a hydra there needs to be a lead up and then there's an arrow from that statement to hydra is part of this game introducing hydra then there's this little like line graph it's almost like a sine wave of rising action and then at the end of it is hydra and then they talk about how they're going to plan around this even though we're shooting live action they were going to find a real hydra they're going to find out they're going to they're going to build a hydra it's going to be a real hydra and then the notes first round is easy second round is hard yeah they even talked about limited mythical creatures like they talked about minotaur hydra manticore pegasus and i actually thought about rather than i start my line graph by saying lead up but i actually thought about putting a little sketch of a pegasus down there pegasus on the bottom of the graph pegasus rising action hydra it's like a formula what is pegasus gonna do well that was the thing when i saw this one again that was one i had so many favorite parts of this white bar that was one of my other things like one of these things is not like the others it's like all of these were like evil mythical beasts and then pegasus oh pegasus is uh has the wings of the trunk it's a friendly horse it's a friendly horse but like i know it from the perseus myth but oh and Slash of the titans you know he rides around on the pegasus of course i know so your spirit animal would be a hydra where you can buy bye-bye right now on the egp link you got to go buy it i bought mine as well i only made one compromise i went ahead and did it on tri-blend oh try blender death right george price 25 bucks yeah that's fine that's all right i got mine in a large it's gonna fit really well so a hydra isn't that the beast with uh three heads that's the i've seen versions with three and that's the version i did i've seen them like i think in the heracles myth it's nine or something left i mean the idea was when you cut a head off two more replaced it so you get a lot of i mean like black knight swords of rage yeah yeah like exactly and again i was like well i mean stern already did the hydra deep root but they they went they were gonna do a live-action hydra so it was going to be different hydro is a really good spirit animal for you because you have different you have different emotions that arise out of media such as comedy such as snark i don't know such as happiness anger i wonder if they would have let me play the hydra in the deep root game live-action hydra man i love that you know what i've never seen though zach is a baby hydra how does the hydra sound is it lizard-like a lot of times they're serpentine heads so i just go oh my it's the hiss i applied to everything raptors and everything else fair enough no i have not seen a baby hydra does it grow heads like as it hits puberty it's like bloop there's two more yeah why are your heads all different sizes i don't haven't all caught up yet i got a bud right here look at it it's just an eyeball yeah that baby oh babies thank you for the toss up there did you know that we're doing a contest listener dennis probably knows about this called tpn babies where each and every day last week this week and following on the tpm facebook page we are posting a picture of one of our tpm providers as a baby wait a minute it kind of looks like a baby well and we're using that term somewhat loosely are we uh it's a baby well because like under 10 i think we're trying to do ages 10 and under normally like a nine-year-old isn't seen as a baby more of a babe baby the other other white meat i'm just think of that movie with a pig that'll do pig tp and babies yeah but ages one through ten people are really getting stumped on this challenge but the payout is great yes some of these guesses have been so wrong i and i don't know if i if i just think that zach because i i knew ahead of time who these photos were of but some of you guys wow some of you guys need to get your eyes checked some of you guys need to check what the tpn roster is maybe that's what we need to start with going in is it chubby chase no is debbie chase in tpn no he's just fearing that it's greg bone no it's carrie hardy i'm like you don't like correct not even there you are all over the place guys guys they're not in tpn gosh oh great so yeah we're going to compile how many correct answers you all have received over the over the duration of this contest and the answer so far is not many no there's one outstanding star right now but they can be beat i promise but the winner is going to receive a stern shaker motor second place we're even going to give a stern banner i believe of your choice or gnr banner from jjp and third place i believe is a collector commemorative metallic decal you get the mojo you keep your money and i'll get your baby who's uh who sponsored those prizes flipping out pinball and tpn of course and all you have to do you have to at least be following two social media forms for tpn so twitch youtube twitter instagram um youtube just two of them follow two of them answer every day to try to figure out who the tpn star is and you could win we're about to post yours and mine do you think people are gonna be able to identify us well now that you mentioned that we're gonna be in it yes well we're going everybody knew that we were going to we actually have a lot of photos so poor sean wilson was like the prettiest baby so people are like is that ruby hardy is that lindsay from what to flip i think i'm pretty obvious so well i look i thought joe lingleberth was pretty damn obvious too but people still got that wrong even after his dad came back that said this is his job [Laughter] you don't know me you're like i'm gonna go with carrie hardy here i'm gonna take a greg bone for the win you know the sweetest thing i'm gonna embarrass him but uh eric wordenberger chuck word with uh streaming for sdtm and he does so much so much prolific stuff for the pinball community i can't even list out as much stuff as he does but he is a sweet man as is his mother his mother messaged me yesterday and we had a nice conversation because she was like hey is that you on the tpm babies this week or something i was like you're the sweetest lady and poor eric is going to be so humiliated yeah we had a great conversation great conversation oh move over Greg Bone mom tbn babies is fun this is what the spirit of pinball is you know what you're absolutely correct it's about a community and it's about having fun and and looking how cute we once were and as we age we no longer are man here's another hint as we kick it over to the correspondence i can say one of these correspondents has submitted a picture that nearly most of you missed it's time for tpn industry news [Music] hello and welcome to the pinball show stern news update i'm craig bobby well you heard the question last time here on the pinball shows episode 97 what's your spirit animal and where the duck are all the stern toppers last week pinball fans were shocked and amazed by the super limited edition 2500 kraken topper sold by elite pinball toppers for the jersey jack pinballs pirates of the caribbean as it sold through its hundred piece allotment in just a couple hours sight unseen stern fans could only watch and salivate helplessly with envy as many fans wondered out loud where the mandalorian godzilla and rush toppers were and why it was taking stern so long to announce them it's now coming on one year in may if you can believe it since the mandalorian was first released which means stern is long overdue for some sort of topper related announcement with the hype generated around the pinball expo last fall it was thought that stern might release the usually high priced accessory rumored to have movement and some sort of holographic projection device sometime around last christmas but to no avail presumably supply chain issues continue to plague the release dates of all the aforementioned toppers however it doesn't explain why stern can't satiate eager fans with a release video showing the various toppers in action allowing them to see what's in the works as they patiently await the release date stern just show us the trailers already speaking of show and tell after a brief hiatus the stern coders are back at it with new rush code v .93 for the pro premium and limited edition models this code is a doozy and contains numerous game enhancements including the long-awaited cygnus x1 book one the voyage wizard mode challenge mode clock bonus feature and several new insider connected achievements including a hidden one for insighted connected users to discover say what so what are you waiting for sign up for insider connected and get out there to your local arcade barricade or pinball tournament and play that masterful rush music pin and before i go allow me to get on top of my little pinball soapbox for some pinball pontificating to the masses if i may about a certain topic that i see popping up almost daily now on facebook inside and other social media threads and that is the subject of price look how expensive pinball is can you believe how much pinball costs i can't believe stern charges so much for these machines so many problems for so much money back in my day i could buy a used machine for fifteen hundred dollars all day long blah blah blah price price price and for good reason new and used machines are selling like hotcakes both new and used many of which are selling at all-time highs sell sell sell sell sell but if you think pinball prices are going down anytime soon friends i got some very bad news they simply are not but why surely with higher interest rates a sizzling economy that is slowly being cooled down boy an improved supply chain surely that will also result in a cooling off of our red-hot pinball market as manufacturers lower prices and buyers and collectors the world over rush to the exit doors to sell off their precious pinball machines or simply stop buying to which i say probably not while slowly improving our supply chain is still well pretty spotty anyone seen the stern chopper lately or talked to a pinball distributor and we already have an absolutely massive backlog of pinball orders when you combine all available finished inventory from the current roster of pinball manufacturers then you add a rapidly growing affluent pinball customer base that is only too happy to blow through those rising interest rates like rick james on a coked out 80s afterparty i'm rick james [ __ ] buying practically every new machine that is coming onto the market to date cocaine is a hell of a drug so no not even the promise of multiple interest rate hikes are going to be able to cool this raging pinball buying frenzy that has taken hold of the hobby and while some rarer are sought after titles like pirates of the caribbean batman 66 or a virus house of horrors prices may fluctuate slightly here and there on the secondary market don't look for any price breaks on the new and box side as demand for new games both from homeowners and operators continues to go through the roof as the pinball and home entertainment market continue to grow by double digits yes pimbo really hits that sweet spot doesn't it it's hip it's retro it features some of the world's most beloved themes it's fun for the whole damn family and the unfortunate magic bullet to guarantee high prices they are extremely labor intensive to make and there are very few manufacturers in the world icat 1 hello stern pinball that are actually making more than one title a year which means it's still a waiting game to get your hands on those new popular titles there is no pin bubble that's been formed or that's about to burst as many speculate this is simply a good old supply and demand issue for an extremely expensive relatively rare and capital intensive device to manufacture that is designed as a commercial device to take small amounts of money from you on location in return for a few minutes of fun so don't expect to see stern or any other manufacturers start lowering their pricing as the supply chain issues start to smooth out because while the world stayed home and factories closed or slowed down consumers took to the internet and did what consumers do best if i want to watch porn i can watch porn they continue to buy things and to help governments did what they do best print more money to ensure the party kept going with most g7 nations printing and handing out money like a zac manny dennis kriesel and Greg Bone secret santa gift exchange yes the demand on titles of previous releases like godzilla rush the mandalorian and deadpool are estimated to be six to eight thousand units deep at stern with total backorders valued somewhere between 30 and 50 million dollars that kind of order evaluation would make even the president of williams back in the good old days of dot matrix pinball sit up and guzzle that half bottle of jack daniels in the bottom drawer of his desk that means even stern with the best pinball manufacturing production in the world these days could literally make those titles for up to an estimated two years before they could even possibly catch up you pair that with even more new stern releases that are still coming in the months and years ahead and the wait times for older previously released titles will not be getting shorter i predict previously released titles will generally take a minimum now of 6 months or longer to receive now you may say that's okay ricky bobby i don't need to buy a new inbox pinball machine that's for the insanely rich or let's face it just the plain insane i'll scour the used pinball market like elon musk on a twitter stock run and find myself a pinball market trend steal of the week bye bye bye bye bye well bad news there as well as the hot new inbox sales market we were just talking about is also driving the bus on the used side too unless people with collections want to actually downsize what they own and not many do they can't find fresh new titles to replace the holes in their collection that selling one from their precious lineup will create and no one wants a hole in their home arcade they can't fill do they no no no no or my personal favorite let's have a buyer's moratorium we'll rise up and just stop buying we'll show those greedy manufacturers how dare they produce something for the masses and try to profit from our mad addictions yes go ahead and stop buying your led premium or pro models and watch the literally thousands of businesses or people behind you only too happy to pay the price and climb over your walking dead wallet so you see what's happening here everyone the horse is so far out of the barn on pricing for both new and used titles that it's like daydreaming about real estate prices in new york city back in the 1970s those days are over people and it's time to move on now i know i'm simplifying things for the sake of this argument but i think it's time to face some facts our little pinball hobby has finally grown up and come of age and isn't that what we all wanted isn't that what we've been trying to tell the world for the last 40 years the golden age of pinball is actually now but those high prices well those are sadly here to stay for the pinball show i'm craig bobby catch you on the flip side hey this is kaz with a quick update on american pinball i reached out to Steven Bowden now wednesday american pinball is going to be on dead flip for a live stream so check that out and the team is also bringing all of their games to the midwest gaming classic this upcoming april 29th 30th and may 1st in milwaukee wisconsin i also reached out to dave Jeff Brenner he's adding more tech videos to help owners and he said his goal is for owners to have a seamless out of the box experience and is happy to help if there's any issues dave's also going to be at the midwest gaming classic so stop by the booth and say hi to the team i hope everybody has a great week and has fun playing pinball for the pinball show this is brian kosner boy craig bobby and cars coming out appreciate the submissions fellas oh yes so much stuff there's a lot of stuff stern pinball in the news this week i wanted to give everyone an update that the april run of rush pros are beginning to ship i believe well they do love these production updates zach our the flipping out run of rush pros shipped out friday so customers should be getting them this week shout out to cliff albert oh baby your rush pro is coming home soon it's headed your way check out cliff albert streams as well but yeah the the april run of rush pros are going to be going to be shipping out right now rush premiums are going to start shipping dennis over the next week or two so we're going to see some rush premiums and then last week and i think they're finishing them now but avengers infinity quest pros and premiums nearly finished if not already complete uh for the april run so that's good and then the one everybody's been waiting for in may first week of may they're gonna start throwing those deadpool pro and premiums onto the production line at stern pinball oh people have been waiting a long time to hear that zack a long time they're waiting for the snicked target they're waiting for them chimichangas disco multiball right now nap arcade's drooling oh i've only had to wait a year it's been one year yeah it doesn't sound that doesn't sound so impressive that's right it's been one whole year you could wait another year but yeah as a reminder i hate to be the bearer of bad news but i can almost guarantee you that not everybody is going to be fulfilled whether it's flipping out or any other dealer we've been taking a long list of pre-orders for deadpool pro and premium for the majority of a year so they're not going to send us all of those they're not going to catch up on the full back order status of deadpool so i'm sorry unfortunate i'm sorry i'm trying to think percentage-wise how many how many deadpool's we're getting out of our back order probably 30 percent hmm probably about 30. that's actually better than i thought you would say i thought it'd be more like 15. i'm actually honestly dennis i just i'm too afraid to look and do the math if only you were using that that was that thing everyone's like squarespace or whatever they're all telling you to convert to i thought you were talking about a calculator oh who are that yeah i don't know i still got my ti 82 right up above my computer sometimes it's just easier to grab no ti 82 plus huh nope sorry i was poor kid no ti 83 nope i'm too old for ditching 84 and make your own little games you could make games on the ti-82 hey look i drew a pair of boobs and speaking of production believe it or not dennis word on the street is that lead zeppelin toppers are being run again right now the topper cometh why i because we've had so many back order forever and people have been waiting for the lead zeppelin topper for like a year oh and i have to correct myself zach i have a ti-85 oh you fancy manu yeah i think the prerequisite for like the algebra in high school was an 80 but two i think it was an 80s i don't you know i don't know grad school 85. i don't know but yeah this is you know one of the graphing ones i did have i might still have it on there i think i had like a uh they made a calculator version of doom oh so that was the game i had i loved running like i think i had oregon trail on mine or something oh oregon trail man all right anyway back to uh sorry i was trying to digress from the led zeppelin topper why are you hating on the led zeppelin topper no i'm sure the toppers is fine it's just with the 10 game owners out there i don't know who was gonna buy it but okay i forgot how many we have like 50 still in order i think i don't know toppers or games toppers wow yeah when it comes to led zeppelin games i think i still have yeah 20 30 40 games still i don't know they're not making led zeppelin this year no it's not on the production line this or it's not on production schedule this year so no clue that one's getting a little bit more love as time goes on too same with rush same with we're getting some of these titles that they're getting more love as the code continues to get updated on it so led zeppelin topper should be coming very soon still no word on the other toppers though you heard craig bobby talking about it mandalorian toppers godzilla toppers rush toppers not only do we not know when they're coming out we don't know what they look like we don't know the pricing we don't know the features nothing i've got nada right now what if none of those games are getting toppers perhaps we've achieved freedom [ __ ] like my stomach dropped there honestly take some pepto and get back into the game do that to me yeah well mandalorian was released a year ago you know how disney is though remember how long it took that r2d2 topper to come out i know beep boop so that's your production update the other updates we can talk about i know you love it dennis it's rush code update version .93 no one cares uh best deal cares damn it okay go ahead oh in version 0.93 as a rundown they it's a big hefty one don't think you're going to be streaming in 20 minutes and try to update this code no we're talking geeks here actually our location i thought someone they were like we're gonna update the rush code and then it was eight hours later yeah raymond davidson pulled out like five gigs worth he's like here how about this update it's a big one made me shiver but they added a clock bonus feature they added the cygnus x1 book one voyage wizard mode which is lit by completing all six multiball modes we've seen i think carter carter from the pinballers did that on stream so you can go check that vaude out they added the respective i'm hoping i'm pronouncing this right cygnus i don't know what that word is cygnus x1 challenge mode so if you want to cheat and not earn the actual momentum hold both flippers in and you can play look i'm warming up to these i'm warming up to them yeah that sounded really warm the turtle challenge is a thing of beauty so i love that one even though you can't play that in within the game so it seems okay to me but a lot of people like these challenge modes and uh i do think they're good for pinball how about that that's a big leap right there that's me backtracking that's a big leap i think they are good for pinball just not good for my style of play kind of like you and toppers right i can't really fit toppers in with my low ceiling you're just supposed to admit that they're good for pinball damn it why are they good for pinball because they're interactive okay that's great also on this .93 code they added a ton of achievements for the insider connected they even added a secret feature that can be unlocked by stern insider connected users is it a hydra i hope so i hope it's the hydra from black knight make a new appearance richie may be gone but i'm not it's it's uh you know the special code and then the steroid heaven appears on the screen and at the top oh that is too good right there see you're gonna have a whole hydra series of merchandise just like it's going to be like monsters where a spot comes out of the staircase but it's going to be the hydra heads 0.93 also adds additional speech expression lighting code and other general balance and bug issues and fixes yay we can't talk balance without talking about american pinball and their upcoming changes to titles and production and manufacturing and i i admit zach i get really confused trying to like what they do on and off the line with american pimp i know they don't have all that many games but because like their entire catalog seems to remain in production i'm i'm constantly sort of at a loss in terms of what's going on there well and you're not alone because i think where they struggle is not only do they have a classic model and a deluxe model of every title but each one of those individual ones are different price so it's not like all the deluxes are the same price or all the the standards the same price so yeah i i get confused and i'm a dealer using last week as an example dentist i really did a crappy job trying to explain the updates to the coming catalog that american pinball has so i wanted to clarify it i owe that to american pinball to actually report what's going on instead of me trying to misremember things you do only report the facts or try to well last week was there's an asterisk but i have clarification and i had a crap attempt last week so it's still kind of confusing but we're gonna try to do this together okay this is pretty big american pinball news that not a lot of people are taught i've not heard anybody talking about there are some important changes coming to the classic and deluxe game models from their current appearance this is the information i've received as an authorized dealer of american pinball products the upcoming runs of oktoberfest houdini and hot wheels tentatively schedules to start in late april or may for oktoberfest late summer for houdini and late fall for hot wheels will be the last run of deluxe models in their present form visually so they're going to there's there's going to be another run of all of their back catalogs deluxe models as they have been but they're going to make them look different moving forward after that after that that's my understanding yeah after that okay yes the plan shifts are going to focus on standardization of all the games so that they can closer be equal in pricing and features so kind of what we were saying is confusing they're going to try to make them a little bit more equal uh as well as minimizing future delays because of special order parts manufacturing parts the delays there so they've got such a number of different parts and specialties for these deluxes that they're going to try to streamline that a little bit which is going to change the appearance and maybe the pricing of things going forward after this final run of each of these deluxes i think we're everybody's following right i think so all right so they're gonna make changes to the deluxes but they're gonna do runs under the current iterations for those who are interested yes absolutely okay now future builds following these final runs for this year will include the following adjustments so you get one more run of oktoberfest deluxe you get one more run of houdini deluxe and you get one more run of hot wheels deluxe in its current form and then we will have what i'm going to call deluxe plus the epsilon the following changes will be made in the future the leg and lollipop side rail powder coating is going to be black now on all games oh instead of because i've been doing specific colors for each one game specific color so houdini we had that very steampunky greeny rustic to fit the cabinet artwork on oktoberfest we had that that barrel texture brownish color so those are those are going away now your deluxes two runs from now your deluxes are just gonna have black powder coating just like probably the hot wheels so it doesn't really affect the hot wheels hot wheels always have the black that's a big change i don't know if i like that change um i'm surprised they didn't uh call stern to see if they could get a deal on the leftover wwe mustard gold gotta have some guardians gold in there so that's one change this one's even bigger in my opinion static playfield toys will be modified on some games to support equal pricing structure across game lines it's very vague yeah i was going to say that's really vague so static playfield toys obviously those are the ones that the ball doesn't directly interact with but they don't say what the changes will be so my immediate thought is are we talking like they're just going to change the molds on things or are we going to move to flat plastics from things that were actually that's what i was thinking or maybe a modification is deletion altogether removal altogether right i don't know and when they said modified and i wouldn't normally assume removal with a statement modified but but you know technically removal is a modification so you may be right i mean think about the the beautiful molded locks on the pot bumpers of houdini or the chains or the ouija board planchette i believe it's a planchette uh it's a wooden planchet on the right side of the playfield do we still have that the milk can houdini's got so much molding and that's what kind of got american pinball in my opinion to where it was at to turn heads to make people pay attention to this company was some of the beauty that they put in these games oktoberfest plenty of moldings we had Janos Kiss or pink or bill or whoever the bartender was his bust on the barrel back there we had an actual physical molded barrel where balls were locked into do we lose any of that so it's still very vague but they're just giving dealers a heads up that changes are coming and then the other change is that there will be consistent cabinet styling for all games dennis this feels like dave fix's previous statements about the head shape yes at first i thought hasn't dave fix addressed this before but i guess it was just the cabinet heads and not the buys themselves but i'm not surprised that he would want to move in this direction i'm not surprised the company would in terms of the cabinets doing different cabinet designs is seems inefficient and to my knowledge the lower main cabinets themselves are the same in all the games it's just the head that differs and you know the monitor styling and such this is just but we have no clue we're just guessing here they had two styles to my knowledge of american pinball's heads we had the houdini uh sharky shootout wave that's what i call that okay yeah yeah and then we had oktoberfest which was i call a teardrop so you had the first wave up top kind of but then it just kind of tear dropped down instead of that second wave i hope you guys listeners understand what i'm saying it's kind of a but it was a different style hot wheels came back and it had the wave again do you think they keep one of these styles or do you think they scrap both of them and do a very standard bally williams or stern style or jjp style head i think they keep one of them i think they probably keep the wave style because i'm assuming they've been making more of them because of hot wheels as popularity now what really throws a wrench into this all dennis is that thinking about legends of valhalla i remembered and again i could be wrong here i might have misremembered i remember dave fix talking about the deluxes of legends of valhalla coming out with a head that is more that teardrop kind of like the oktoberfest but then the standards would have the wave that is more like the houdini so and i thought that was just odd but then i was like well maybe they're just trying to get rid of heads that they have stored but i don't know how this changes that yeah i i don't know either hmm so a lot of change is the point i think yeah if they're running with this teardrop style for legends of valhalla now maybe one could assume that that's kind of the standard that they're gonna go for moving forward i mean i could i could see it that way uh so that's that uh current toys and powder-coated metal parts they're gonna be supported still through the american pinball website for replacement purposes in the foreseeable future they're saying but they're not gonna be factory installed items on future games and they're also the these upcoming runs of that final deluxe in this current form they're going to be pretty limited too dealers are going to be limited to a very i will say a very small amount of each of these titles regardless of what we as dealers have back orders so are you going to basically have to contact your current buyer list and let those know that are beneath this whatever quantity you're going to get that hey there's going to be changes do you want to stay in yeah i will likely have to do that um and i'd like once i receive more information as a dealer about potential pricing changes or feature changes once i know specifically then i'll have to contact the individuals that fall outside of that small little run that we're going to get and say hey you know i know you have one on order here's some of the things that you're going to be seeing on the new runs in the future here to see if they still have interest and whatnot are you planning to if the pricing is different are you planning to contact those that are in that could get one of these i guess we'll call the old style deluxe versions and say hey do you want to stay in on this or would you rather save money and get the new version of the deluxe if the price is lower i would say depending on how the timeline falls if they're going to start making these oktoberfests they might do those before i know the specifics of the future runs i might not even know yet well i wouldn't i mean i if i were you i'm i'm not but if i if i were i probably wouldn't extend the offer because they've already committed on the old version yeah they've already expressed they want the current version so you know i i wouldn't create a whole bunch of extra work for myself but and then they went on to tell us that the limited deluxe models of new releases kind of like the legends of a holo i think that was considered a limited deluxe model they're gonna still include the exclusive features that we've come to know and love i think what they're referring to there dennis is the mirrored backlashing the painted sculpted toys look legends of valhalla had the gold armor too maybe they did call stern but so now i am kind of confused still i'm not trying to be i'm not trying to be a contrarian here but i am kind of confused so have they adjusted pricing for the legends of valhalla to say that anything in the future will still have the nice and pretties is that what they're saying they're just not dealing with the old style of houdini oktoberfest yeah i'm wondering if what they're saying is i'm confused too i'm wondering what they're saying is that when they do les there may still be unique aspects but when there are not less they're second their higher level tier is going to be more standardized than what they historically were doing you know i'm at the point where i'm kind of wondering if the prior if the priority for them is standardization why continue to do deluxes at all you know what they could do and they would sell a lot is just say hey guys we've had houdini out for a long time we've had oktoberfest for a long time we're not saying in the future we're not going to vault one of these but for right now we're actually going to give you one last call we're going to discontinue this uh series and we're going to run what we can but uh you know or maybe we've got 200 of each of these models left in its current form and then it's going to be gone for a handful of years yeah i've been curious about i mean i get it on the one hand like with with themes like houdini and oktoberfest they don't have a license or they have to worry about so there's not a time pressure legally but at some stage i would think they would want to just say you know what we got to take these off the line we can't just keep doing them every year we've got other stuff we want to build you know create some built up demand over time maybe say all right it's been three years let's let's re-release houdini yeah kind of like stern does with like your iron man vaults of the world or your star trek vaults of the world i i think that would work better than just saying hey you know once a year we're always going to run them for you guys it doesn't create as much of a demand in my opinion well and if they had done it like like that then this whole thing this explanation you wouldn't have to really do it you could you could cut them off and then say oh we're we're bringing back a vaulted oktoberfest deluxe and houdini deluxe and there have been changes because it's the vault it's not going to be identical visually same great gameplay but different aesthetics uh they're figuring it out over there they're figuring it out but i'm glad to hear that it's not like we won't get the pretty powder coats and stuff in the future on future games it's just for these catalogued titles okay and for everyone's reference the new ap pricing i was referring to last week very definitively this week i have the answers houdini deluxe is 79.95 plus shipping this last little run and what it has been 79.95 plus shipping and it comes with a shaker interior art blades knocker magic class steampunk flipper toppers houdini classic 72.95 so 700 less plus shipping oktoberfest deluxe 82.95 plus shipping comes with all those little extras as well where the classic edition of oktoberfest is 77.95 plus shipping hot wheels goes down even more 73.95 for the deluxe model of hot wheels they don't have powder coat but they have that black and you get the shaker knocker magic glass and upgraded rails where's the classic version of hot wheels streamlined for the arcade or the home arcade the 69.95 plus shipping they're now right there with a stern pro so that is competitive i like that and the legends of valhalla limited deluxe is the official name that is 83.95 their most expensive offering at american pinball it does come with a mirrored back glass hand painted toys shaker knocker magic glass topper gold foil arch and upgraded rails okay plus shipping see there you go american pinball i got your back and explaining what uh what's coming up and what's going on with american pinball a topper is not too bad for legends of valhalla not too bad at all just as it included topper but don't get enough love everybody else oh spooky oh p3 american pebble but not deep root oh not deep root remember when deep root had the retro atomic zombie adventure land topper remember that they teased that a couple years ago vaguely you know i never paid a lot of attention to the toppers i was kind of sad to hear through all of this auction stuff dennis that uh i didn't see any of those toppers in any of the lots were you looking or were you focused on trying to win that jesus painting i was trying to win the jesus painting they got pulled and blueberry johnson in the forums on pinside did confirm that the jesus painting that zach manny was bidding on it was the highest bidder before they pulled it was actually pulled as a personal item for robert mueller why didn't they pull barry's toolbox that's a great point jesus is going home with robert and that home may be eight by ten cell wow he's gonna need jesus where we're going we're gonna need a bigger jesus that's a big painting was it it was a fairly large painting yeah oh okay i didn't i don't even remember looking at it i just assumed it was like a little little like eight and a half by eleven size painting no at least bj put a link in the forum so i could go buy one off etsy or something it's not the same bj it's not the same jesus's eyes could talk from that painting did you think that bobby went in every day and like would would kiss his fingers and then touch the little little hand and go bring me fortune there was hand smudges on the on the frame glass i was hoping dennis that it was sitting mounted right above that casting couch just to remind people before they sit down jesus is watching i wanted it above the gladiator white board yeah right dude my jesus is like [ __ ] a hydra watch me part a sea there's so many jokes there dennis so we really want to move on well they did have that fire and brimstone great game i haven't looked in as much into that one last week listeners you likely heard blueberry johnson as the as the guest here doing a special episode entitled is it titled or entitled it's not entitled is it is it titled i don't know did he did he think he deserved lots of stuff titled uprooting deep root which i thought was clever is that not clever part one yeah i mean it's kind of obvious but i sat i sat with a title you know you the root of all evil doesn't imagine you're sitting there spinning your your glass of cognac i was a must it's what i do must come up with a title it must it must make sense and be obvious but feel clever money is the deep root of all evil you could went with i had a couple working titles there i think i had an egp episode when it was all imploding where i like titled it roundup on the deep root and i had a little picture in the in the icon of the of someone new the spray bottle of roundup spraying the logo that's clever yeah but blueberry johnson visited the pinball show last week to discuss the history of deep root and i gave a lot of unreleased info from alleged past employees you got to check that out in special part one as well as joining me for episode 97 as a special guest co-host and nap arcade nap arcade's still like a phoenix baby rising on fire revealing exclusive unpublished deep root documents pictures videos go to knapp arcade.org for all of that via blueberry johnson submitted those but wow there's there is a a lot of [ __ ] reading material there if you ask me the hydra appearing whitewood is also in that article it's been featured twice it has been featured twice as well as speaking of [ __ ] material do you well generally speaking i know this is personal but what do you what do you do when you're taking a [ __ ] poop first things first where's your [ __ ] i've got a turtle head book in here do you have any complimentary uh activities or materials or anything no i poop i got a crap on deck that could choke a donkey you're not a pinside surfer email checker a facebook stalker oh on the phone yeah you know i might see if i have emails case i'm getting all emotional from it huh okay you're an email checker when you're pooping i didn't know if you had like handles and you're really just bearing down and have no time to focus on a phone some people do a crossword puzzle um some people hide really good information in a walt whitman book they put on the toilet i don't know i am the danger you don't you don't you don't seem like the sort i imagine you eat cereal oh my god that's so nasty that's so gross well this topic is dumb visual of eating fruity pebbles while taking it of course it's fruity peppermint veins popping out of my head crunch it did sound a little wet didn't it right at the end let's have a smell all right oh wafting wafting oh everyone likes their own brand don't they this is magic oh help me oh listen no it's coco pops but i got them mixed up which bowl were they in oh that's how you see for what i'm zach and i get confused sorry zach you know cobs are the enemy though we'll wake up you know what i mean back to real topics go to naparcade.org and if you're if you're interested in a deeper debacle i was going to go a deeper debacle too oh that's good see i like alliteration though so you're like well i'm biased towards alliteration okay there's probably a joke there but i missed it and if you want to hear more information about deeproot pinball stephen kandel he was a an animator at the deep root utah studio he's also the individual who did the updated visuals to tmnt with the april anneal mod oh okay i've heard about it just i can't say enough about how spectacular he is as an animator he's done so for i don't want to botch it but some really high profile company so much so that pinball can't afford his animation neither could deep root and uh they stopped paying him so he left but he was interviewed by canada's pinball podcast so if you want to hear he was very bold very bold with some of his statements so you can go listen to that as well you will it says in a knock on your canada but you're gonna have to pay for that one that's behind a paywall so you're gonna have to throw in five dollars if you want to hear that episode or get it from a friend sorry canada i just haven't sent you the link so dennis after listening to the deep root enter i hope you listen to the blueberry johnson one if not i'm giving up at this point no i did and seeing the nap arcade stuff what is your take on it are you tired of deep root stuff is it still surprising you do you find it interesting what's your take yeah it's it's interesting i i know some people get tired about hearing about the negativity on it and and i understand that perspective i am a big believer in that you need to learn from the history and mistakes of the past and just sweeping it under because you don't because it's inconvenient is is not the best outcome and then this is just another in a long line of of failure from zidware to Skit-B to bonnie d i mean we've at highway i mean we've had various forms of failure at various levels throughout the history of pinball so this isn't new i think this one was just interesting because of the breadth the dollars involved so great terms yeah yeah and in terms of what was presented while there was a lot of new information the only part that really surprised me it wasn't like a gasp shock but just like trademark i hadn't really thought about it was the details that blueberry indicated were alleged from one prior person about just when what went on when they were trying to get the raza's ready for the deep six oh how great was that like as a story narrative uh whether you're sick of hearing of deep root or not that story narrative is entertaining from a storytelling perspective just to hear about this struggle the essentially video game crunch happening in a pinball scenario because you had someone who committed to a reveal time and didn't want to look bad and change it when things weren't ready yet didn't help with any of that preparation and the constant just last minute oh wait can we do this or did the designer of the game yeah yeah and but and and being behind uh past you know security passcodes where you couldn't even go and talk to your boss because you didn't have authorization to go to that wing of the building the missed paycheck after paycheck after paycheck but the but the purchases the continuing just high dollar purchases of equipment that wasn't even right that's what shocked me i was less surprised about that i think only because i'd already been it already been well established to me that they really did not know how to do the manufacturing side of it like they were never ready on the manufacturing side and that would suggest no one was really being consulted who understood the manufacturing so that they were ordering the wrong equipment to me just fit with the whole narrative that no one knew how to build anything or those who were there who did have that background you know those veteran designers who might have been familiar with the line weren't being consulted with how to put it together you know what also kind of really hit home for me as a as a good reminder and i think it's good for those of you who really consider yourself hobbyists and you're listening to pinball podcasts so you likely are is that we do give a lot of credit to pinball designers rightfully so in a lot of situations but boy the bread and butter really comes down to that team's engineer and we know that the the engineer dennis on some of the examples they used was so inept reportedly allegedly inept that it was never going to work these hundreds of thousands dollars millions of dollars worth of machinery if you can't have a ninja there that can design some of the designer stuff or engineers and machinists that know how to use this equipment it doesn't matter how great your foam core is doesn't matter how great your your code is which was another issue you know steve baden may have been formulating all of this code in the structure but to actually get it coded was by an outside party and that was a damn mess too but i really think it hits home to bario is a great designer love you popeye uh nordman nordman great designer but they all said the same thing over the past years uh i need an engineer where is he i need i need my engineer so i think sometimes you're going to hear this from me going forward i want to hear more about the engineers at these manufacturers i want to hear about the harrison drakes i want to hear about the ellie eisens those are the unsung heroes and i think probably rightfully so the geniuses behind the scenes in a lot of what we love in pinball boy what a failure that was a lot of stuff made me giggle yes my favorite of course is the internal playfield removal carousel tool i knew you had to bring this up it's my favorite it's the very when you go to the nap arcade site and and click on the blueberry info dump it's the very first video in it that's great it is it is meme worthy it it is uh pinball viral worthy and i don't know maybe maybe soon you'll be willing to share your own created i don't know because you know as with that reputation that i have of being second nicest i don't know about me making memes that the expensive non-working mechanical equipment is really for the best oh that might be more of an idea that might be more of an inside voice thing maybe we put it behind a paywall yeah i don't know if it's not good it's so good dennis uh too many of his friends will will share some of his creations and i was wiping tears for my eyes on that one unfortunately listener and dennis were kind of getting accustomed to all these failed approaches at producing a manufacturing pinball machine i'm very used to it we're seeing it again this week we had the exciting news from nap arcade that there may in fact be a future dragon's lair themed pinball machine did you see this story i saw the whole interesting arc of this story uh keep in mind listener i was contacted by this individual who was working on this dragon's lair pinball project several years ago and really yes yes i just hadn't publicly i don't think i know this story yeah i didn't say anything because it's almost like a thing where and i told the guy you know i will i will cover it because he's wanting to know if sdtm would do some you know promotion stuff i said i would cover it once it becomes a thing once we are closer because otherwise i told him what i recommend all of uh some of these homebrew guys or these even early manufacturers look not to toot my own horn but they do contact me for consultation stuff and i'll give them some advice and i gave them the same advice i give everybody document document document if you want this to turn into a people's story kind of thing document the hell out of it don't release any of it and then upon releasing it right before then you'll have a piece or even pieces for me to edit together a story for you and do that and i you know he'd been updating me and it was really interesting stuff i i didn't grow up with the dragon's lair arcade as a predominant theme in in in my childhood i knew of it i knew of its beauty it intrigued me because of the animation and the difficulty level it still does the arcade but when they were doing it i thought i don't know if that's a strong enough theme then he showed me some pictures and i thought damn this kind of looks awesome and then that just left it at that but he went public with us a kickstarter campaign the creator of this and wanted kickstarter money to get this project going and even there dennis i was like wait a minute this is not a good idea yeah and i i i don't back because i don't i don't ever back kickstarters i never have no neither and i don't blame people turning to it i just but i don't like the model as a consumer so i don't engage in it i can see it for it it has worked for other industries i mean video games has worked right i totally understand why someone would choose to do kickstarter as a creator i mean imagine mitigating all of your expense risk to other people who get no equity in your product you get them a little bit no it's brilliant i mean honestly if i was developing stuff i would probably use it quite frankly because it's like all the wins go to the creator but not for the complexity of pinball machines it's just the the problem where i think most kickstarters struggle is when you're talking really high dollar things that's right not necessarily even high dollars that you have to raise but high dollar commitments for i mean pinball machine ultimately is a very expensive purchase for a consumer it's not like a video game or or a book or you know all sorts of normal stuff yeah it will kick can kickstarter campaign to fund a coffee table book about pinball then i don't think an actual kickstarter campaign for a company is going to work and that's a good point because that's something where like i can totally understand why people be like well you know i'm i'm getting a book and it's not a huge dollar commitment i'm going to go ahead and do it and then you're like why is this struggling like people do books all the time why is it once you met your goal why are they 40 years later it been four years where's my book where's my book is it near my engineer in hell why isn't she popping out with a single coil topper don't hate on that topper it's a thousand dollars and i didn't even get two coils so anyway they came out with this kickstarter campaign showed it off people i think overall some people were naysayers but people showed a large general interest in this theme and the design of what they were showing was it the design or is it just the art because i didn't look into the game itself so tell me maybe that's my mess up because i have seen some of the actual design elements of it it was mostly just art i think that was shown publicly um i mean dragon's lair from see that's from my time so like as a child i loved dragon's lair i loved going to the show biz and putting my i didn't get anywhere in it because it's not like a normal game yeah yeah yeah so it's not like gameplay wise a lot of people didn't really like it because all it was was memorizing patterns and then clicking this you know moving the stick or clicking the button i call it remote control games yeah yeah yeah it's uh i mean it's i can't it's so weird it's just it's just a it's a bunch of quick time events it's all a really serious and i hate quicktime event games but when i was a kid that it was fully animated that was what was impressive about it because everything else was just like asteroids and donkey kong simple graphics you weren't beautiful you were looking at this you know bluth animation that's what was it was visually very attractive so all that's really going for that game is art i'm trying to think some of the stuff i've seen it had like this the the serpent or the serpentine it was almost like a habitrail but it was a single i don't know if he was using a magnet to get it to dry there were some interesting things i don't i didn't see it working yeah i mean i looked at a playfield shot i just i didn't study it so yeah i mean visually i could see why people would be interested in the game yeah it looked like it played the part like it looked like a full-blown design and consumer-wise i could see why they would lose a lot of interest the moment a kickstarter was attempted yes unfortunately nap arcade reporting that days later the ip owners of dragon's lair sent a cease and desist because the creator didn't have the license rights to use that ip and so and the sad thing is he had kind of been lying he he not kind of even lying he was telling people he had the license like almost felt like a Skit-B thing again i've got the predator license yeah i didn't called the back of a deal on the number well i guess now we have to upgrade to a blu-ray case they call the back of the number on the blu-ray he claimed that he had the rights to this and the representation came out for that property and said no you don't have rights and not only that you need to stop what you're doing and scour the internet and get rid of anything that you have produced and put out there that led some people to be like well wait a minute he hasn't produced anything so why are these people jumping on his case but i agree with the ip holders here he he had intentions to he was it wasn't like they were grilling him doing his home brew in his in his basement years ago it was when he announced he was going to try to get this going yeah it's once it became clear this is and again i am not attorney nothing i say on this podcast to be construed as legal advice my understanding was he had expressed commercial intent to move forward on a commercial project which obviously would relate to the ip holders i don't think anyone like if you went and you had photos from him that you put on your website like i don't think he can go and demand pins i'd take any of the photos down i don't think any news article that covered it has to worry about what they have listed because that is just reporting on information that was coming out at the time but yeah the basically again it's a c d it's not they didn't sue him they gave him a c d and this is what they want to respect the ip given this and given what his prior statements were i just don't see how this ever moves forward now i consider this a dead project entirely do you think even if he had the the money to do so and the and the proof of concept and a built machine do you think they now don't give him the time or day uh money talks so the ip holders could potentially come around okay i don't know how well the public comes i still remember way back this year you know i remember all these failures zach i've been around i've not been around dave fix long but i've been around a while and i still remember how hard it was for the dutch pinball folks to unring the bell when they lied to people it was very very very difficult about when they were having issues with the contract manufacturer but they had indicated it was other problems oh yeah and that was just about what was going on i mean it was just what was going on like behind the scenes they had the license and everything they didn't have anything that would necessarily impact the consumer in a particularly direct way but they were struggling with the contract manufacturer and they were saying there was other stuff that was causing the delays and there i mean i'm sure there are people to this day who have not and will never forgive them for it sure and and they had repeatedly come out and apologized for the deception uh yeah i i just when you don't have the funding to do it then he might be able to get the ip holders on board by you know coming up with a license agreement this this is i don't think this is the c d i don't think is personal i think he comes in he i think he could hammer something out with him but i don't know the kickstarter how he looks better yeah yeah cause everyone's gonna be like well you weren't even you you implied you had something that you didn't from the get-go why would we trust you on any step of the way of this process and with licensing we know there in in these contracts listen there's a lot of it that isn't paid in full beforehand there's a lot of contingencies here you pay us a minimum of this for this many units and then every unit after there it's not a cut and dry kind of thing so to go further on this dennis we know that hobbyists have been begging for video game license to see their way into new pinball machines or especially retro gaming the likes of like zelda nintendo based stuff mario do you think dragon's lair is a viable license for pinball in the 21st century uh yeah but i don't think it'll be a huge hit i mean again it's like how ghostbusters played up the nostalgia if the game played well in particular i think there are a lot of people who have money who you know their formative arcade years were in the 80s like those people are those people are not particularly old and they've got funds and dragon's lair was a huge i mean it was a huge thing when it came out i mean this was a game that could command 50 cents in the arcade when everything else was getting a quarter and it went on to create the likes of uh dragon's lair two spaces yeah space age so yes this is i mean it's not a top-tier video game license but given you're targeting people that are probably you know a lot and the demographics are changing now but a lot of historic pinball collectors they were arcade gamers and so appealing to an arcade game you know you would see a dragon's lair in a place where you would go and play pinball so yeah no it's not a bad it's not a bad one i agree yeah i agree my my argument would be and follow me here listener back during those 80s what dragon's lair has is something that i always harp on i always am on this and i still feel is just as true today when you go with a license and nostalgia pulling those member berries heartstrings you want something that the consumer can relate to and feel emotion to and what dragon's lair had in the 80s that nearly no other video games i would argue had during that time is you had this type of animation that was so beautiful and so clear that told a story so well better than an asteroids or a galaga that the consumer because of that's why it was popular because you felt that animation because you watched disney films growing up so it pulled you in because you really had that relationship with that artwork because it told that story and it emoted a hell of a lot better than anything else around it and i think that's along with the difficulty that was a long that's what his popularity was and that's why i do think call me crazy but i think dragon slayer is one of the best retro gaming licenses to use one of the things that i think is really nice about the idea is because of how the game was played because of the qte style quick time event style that the gameplay relied upon i think if you had full access to the assets it would lend itself incredibly well to pinball because the order of the rooms and stuff in the game was randomized i mean it was irrelevant it didn't matter you went you did scene to scene to scene and it all just you were going along while you were trying to get okay to the final area so so given that you know like every time the ball drained you could just do any randomized death of dirk of different yeah the skeleton you do a shot and you could have if you completed certain shots you could have just any particular room cleared you'd have one little scene and you do another little scene so i think it actually could integrate really really cleanly without requiring if you had like the full laserdisc assets at your disposal you could tie it into the pinball game pretty well by just following the boxes that were ticked by the video game version but a smaller company nonetheless right like an american pinball or how about a multimorphic yeah but does anyone want to touch it now well i don't is this does this taint it too much i don't think so i don't think so you got a big lcd screen on the play field of the p3 what better you know yeah and the the format of maybe i'm diving way too deep here but the format of a dragon's lair is a 4 3 ratio so it's not the 16 9 wide screen that you need so format wise it makes even more sense for a play field i don't know jerry happy birthday go look into that one i don't think it's dead i think i think there's still something there if it's not too pricey well i think this individual's project is dead his project is dead yeah but maybe hire him on as a consultant to help with some of it i don't know why because he had some good work he had conceptually some interest yeah for example if if multimorphic were to take it they wouldn't need his his art nobody don't do playfield no but if i'm if i'm trying to build a theme around something i want people who are super passionate about it that can check the boxes that i'm going to miss and if he's passionate enough to go this far then the passion's there i don't know Stephen Silver what do you think chicago gaming company what do you think they think about this this is not a cgc game right no i think they're they're still just trying to get the remakes out of them no i don't think cgc would make this game they're making cactus canyon ses right now dennis they're still kind of creeping out of that factory what about the ellies zack that's what everyone wants to know about i know there's no word i did message i did my due diligence and i messaged my buddy ryan over there this morning before the podcast and i said hey any uh any updates maybe tell me percentage-wise how much you are through this first se run that you guys are wanting to do before transitioning to les and let me check my phone here no response so well it is the weekend spoilers when we're recording folks so i did message my friend at stern that was responsible for some of the topper stuff too and asked them for an update and they said uh nothing at this time and you're up way too early i thought you're gonna say i also messaged stern to find out if they could tell me what was going on with the cactus can't spell e and they goes well our spies haven't indicated that it's another three months out that's right well some people are calling for the las like they were like i've heard the la's are six to eight months out and i'm like oh [ __ ] i'm as a dealer we haven't been told anything frankly so i don't know we've received i don't know if people care about this percentage-wise but 15 of our se orders that's what worries me 15 20 that doesn't seem like a lot that's not like what you're expecting on the deadpool's hmm yeah well that's true that is true that's thirty percent that's an old title though um well cactus games i'm guessing more essies i just don't know if they're gonna they're gonna fulfill as much as they can of essays before running onto the le or if they're just gonna say hey we're gonna shoot for 30 or 50 percent of the essays we have ordered from dealers and then move i don't know are you recommending zach that people convert from the le to the se no will they get a game faster if they convert at this see that's why when people ask that because they will specifically ask that i i don't lie so i just tell them i simply don't know okay i really don't know and we we have been told that sc pluses will come after the las i do believe that they'll run all the les at once because that kind of makes sense if they have the parts just to get those leds i still think i i worry about the parts of that topper for the le and the s e plus with the parts delays and stuff so maybe we see who knows i need to reach out to them jersey jack pimple i don't i need to i guess formally reach out to them on the phone oh oh that was yeah that was way too informed that was just a buddy text body text nice little bt and just a little buddy text jersey jack pinball got plenty of buddies over there and nap arcades a buddy of mine nap arcade's speculating that jjp factory tours are being paused at the moment dennis so you better cancel your trip to elk grove village and beautiful upstate don't know that's upstate or not but uh yeah they're being paused because the company is preparing their line for their next game release well that would make sense rumored as toy story that's just what nap arcade is speculating this last week rb flip friends from overseas uh media creators they did a nice factory tour video of jersey jack pinball you have to check that out subtitles on because i didn't know what the hell they were saying such a sexy language zach let me ask you a question about while we're on jersey jack let me give you an answer all right uh when's toy story being released uh the rumor toy story um yes the rumor rumored toy story they do know right that to infinity and beyond is not a suggestion on production approach right that's just a line in the show right that's another another t-shirt idea i just picture buzz lightyear on top of that staircase now i'm still guessing june that's my guess okay i'm guessing june wouldn't be surprised if it was summer summer late summer because i think what george jack and a lot of manufacturers do they think they have all their egg is it eggs in a row it's eggs in a basket eggs in a basket why are ducks in a row but eggs have to be in a basket well how else would you carry the eggs like two at a time one in each hand a carton okay a carton they don't they don't come pre-cartoned uh so much people don't come out on the farm with one of those cartons and start sticking eggs directly into the cart i guess ducks naturally are in a row they walk in a row just the baby ducks behind the mama well maybe we're talking about the baby look you know why do we say the proofs in the pudding instead of saying the proof of the pudding because these because the expression is the proof of the pudding is in the eating but that's a long thing to say so it got changed i've never heard the proof is in the pudding yeah well there you go the more you know what's your favorite kind of pudding uh tapioca of course it is your spirit pudding is tapioca spirit pudding spirit pudding what what was your name your tpn pudding that george fisher did i do remember that that was clever that was very cool he's pretty clever he's a very clever talented young man what uh what spirit pudding would i be you know me very well don't [ __ ] this up it's a layup it's chocolate i [ __ ] it up really i don't know you at all i go beyond chocolate dark chocolate ugh bitter no thanks no i my spirit pudding is most certainly a banana pudding with wafers on top oh my god so pretentious it is that's what it is this might gotta have my topper okay now that is an idea edible toppers so people have to keep buying them it's just like the perfect distro i love that idea actually all right nap arcade you gotta tell us when this rumor toy story is coming out pat lawler game is gonna knock everybody's socks off i think it will be pretty well received i think both of his jjp designs have been very good i've enjoyed them but have they been the best sellers no obviously guns and roses has been an incredible seller and we know dialed in really suffered with not having a license guns and roses has outsold both of the lawler games i think i would say combined probably oh yeah i mean did anything maybe pirates under because they cut it uh under didn't sell as much as du has dialed in but otherwise i'd say dialed in it was their their worst selling game which is unfortunate i actually think it's their best game i'm really eager to play the next pat lawler game because i myself i agree i tend to tend to go towards that i still have my willy wonka and love it to death it'll never leave dialed in would have never left if it was something different so but willy wonka's pretty good i was you know the the problem with we're going way back the problem with willy wonka was the hype machine got way out of hand on that you remember like there were the game was going to have different colored balls in honor of the gods gobstoppers and the game would know which color ball was in play and it would be like everyone was like a powerball but it did a different thing yeah and so this is the most ridiculous sort of tech stuff that no one has achieved and then it was just you know a good game and people are like i'm just cautious on a rumored toy story game because it is a dream theme for so many people it's such a wonderful theme that lends itself to pinball anytime something seems too good to be true i worry about it same with it being a disney license what disney license have we we've been given in pinball that was just dynamite they're so restrictive well i mean they are on assets but i mean game wise guardians guardians of the galaxy got pretty well received that yes it did yes it did that was a good one mandalorian as well okay i'm just thinking star wars kind of stuff that's because people got frustrated because the star wars art design on the playfield was like the same that they saw in every lunchbox ever but then the comic edition came out and people were like oh that's cool it's han it's super hand-drawn now yeah saints rainy martinez what if on toy story zack what if it is though one of those more star wars pure you know original trilogy super restrictive things and they didn't get the right to use any of the toys it's just like the kids they got the human characters but not the toys that i'm gonna be frank that's a complete and utter fail or what if each of the toys controls its own license so like they couldn't get potato heads no i could see that that i could see that's a sketch you know like nope sorry we couldn't afford slinky i could see that if they are properties but my expectations are very low for this game just because i'm setting them for myself why because i want it so bad i'm just prepping well you're gonna get it no matter what because that's the sort of person you are i can't think of yeah anything that lawler's done at jjp i thought shot and just phenomenal so i just i only have one i'm good one piece of advice for you zach yeah when you buy it you're gonna get your led collectors yeah your collector's dish you can't announce that you're selling it publicly because that's against the rules love you jack g you can't sell games that you bought from jjp keep it quiet it's always great to hear Dennis Nordman coming back and i'll let him whisper sweet nothings into my ear it's time for pinball market trends oh there's nothing better than getting an intro to pinball market trends by mr Dennis Nordman himself thank you Dennis Nordman i was waiting for it no problem i only dance by the light of the pale moonlight and a flashlight that my engineer shines so i can see my ramps what show was i watching that the british coal flashlight something else torch yes a torch no that's what they they always call it you gotta get the torch out of the boot yeah and i was like this is not a torch the torch has fire it's artificial fire hence the name i don't know why i'm seinfeld why they call it a torch a torch involves fire thank you Dennis Nordman whispering sweet nothings oh speaking of whisper i want you guys to get real close to the speaker i'm gonna whisper what's trending this week you ready training up this week is the current american pinball deluxe models hear me out in the upcoming small runs of said models oktoberfest deluxe and houdini deluxe get them before they're gone because bob dylan said changes are coming didn't he uh yeah i think so or does he say papa was a rolling stone i don't know changes are a common your head's about to be changed your toys are about to be changed so i think training up is the value of these of these deluxe models that we currently have for oktoberfest and houdini moving forward with them are you worried that it's going to be like one of those artistic restorations where they the person doesn't know what they're doing and they come in and then the this famous painting just looks like a potato [Laughter] well i mean what are we going to say now picasso did watercolors am i i don't know if you've ever seen the have you ever seen the those restoration things oh i i gotta i gotta show you i will i will it's like [ __ ] leroy jenkins i had no clue about because there's this is super famous so yeah this uh this has happened a few times i'm gonna send you the most famous one though um that ever happened so there was this classic historic art oh i've seen it okay and they hired a restorer to clean it to fix it and so that was what i meant was that we have our deluxe version and you know we have our sicilian version but you know what like we had jesus see imagine bobby's jesus painting but then it became a potato but you know what that uh that botched painting of jesus i guarantee is worth millions that worst restoration of all time that is is it ise homo i you know i don't know if it's worth millions zach that i almost guarantee you it is the potato fication of that is pretty pretty bad it looks like something that goes i mean if it was on my wall i would probably laugh every time i saw it but [Laughter] i like my jesus looking like chewbacca i'm just looking at it right now and i'm just like the eyes have you ever looked have you ever looked at an ac homo it's got dead eyes and dolls eyes until until it's until it's potato face bites into you and those eyes roll white the transformation of potato is complete why you all want josh what do you want it i don't understand all right i want to see that of the jaws i know okay it's so bad i'm sure american pinball will do a good job i want them to do a theme around that chewbacca jesus [Laughter] didn't jesus say rising action leads to hydra chewbacca jesus oh my gosh i can just picture him saying take this this represents my boy i feel bad because this is a audio medium and people i know this is a really famous restoration i mean it is people can search it is dubbed the worst art restoration of all time but see i don't think it looks like chewbacca i think it looks like a potato with it i think it looks like chewbacca drink this one it's representation of my boo oh that's horrible so that's what's training up is the deluxe models the current deluxe models pre-circa 2023 i guess is what we're going to say get them all they're hot also training up this week is stearns guardians of the galaxy we're just talking about that how about that yeah about disney and how they don't like games be good well they're trying there's guardians there's guardians of the galaxy ellie's did you know this dennis you're gonna [ __ ] your [ __ ] a brick here ellie's are now going for sixteen thousand plus of course hold me in your little groot arms i am what the [ __ ] my chewbacca wars are worse than my golem oh man my chewbacca is off today i usually do i usually do better i usually do them good but no it's not good today yeah at least with the gold trim 16 000 plus premium still holding 11 000 dollars plus even the pros the pleiaboli pros pros uh seashell seashells she sells seashells pros are seven to eight thousand dollars plus well talk about bubbly bobo you better be mary poppins yo if you want to hope to get high enough up to reach those prices do you see that uh star-lord is in the new uh thunder and whatever thor movie yes i did i saw that trailer but have you seen the new batman or just no i i have not i actually did just watch the halloween 2018 and the halloween kills sequel though okay what's your takes uh 2018 is better than the sequel uh both are better than the game fair shout out joe lingleberth i was going to trend down this week the batman with robert pattinson but i haven't made it through so it could it could redeem it you got some blow back for your name from your spider-man comments i guess you made some spider-man comments on the last show you would have [ __ ] known if you would listen but i don't know because i read the i read the pin side forum thread and the people were like dude why are you hating on toby and amy start calling you tony don't listen to the episodes i listen to most of it the gold comes in the end yeah have you seen that show that movie yet yeah and your thoughts i liked it [ __ ] don't be a contrarian you're real real masterpiece there wasn't it man i mean it's a marvel movie it's gonna be to a degree paint by numbers but it seems like the directors have been having more freedom than they did in the like first phase the entire premise was flawed how stupid was that did you really believe doctor strange was like dude oh now and i may be wrong zach here's my theory here's my here's my marvel theory i think that that is not the normal doctor strange i think that is evil alternate universe doctor strange and he wanted to screw things up the one from the animated series oh so variant yes basically yeah and it would explain why he did it and allowed it all and then seemed so uncaring after it all got screwed up so he's actually really smart that could fix it still can't fix the lack of love for andrew garfield but what i thought they paid him far more respect now part of that he was the heel of the spider-man he got that big huge rescue scene and make up for his failed rescue and his series of movies yeah what was up with that that sexual kind of tension there i think they were just i think they i don't know if they were going for that so much as just a hey look we're kind of following the same beats that he already went through but the outcome was different this time um i actually thought part of this was probably because he was the first old spider-man that they showed that it really took away from toby where maguire's revealed because everyone knew that was coming they really built up toby the whole time no though yeah he got the big fight with the gun but goblin was his villain and william defoe is like the best villain they ever had so of course you had to play him up he was really good andrew garfield got the funny i'm on the ceiling cleaning up cobwebs they used jamie foxx too much that wasn't really great jamie well see the thing is andrew garfield aside andrew garfield's movies were not very good i'm but i'm saying everybody's heralding this series is oh they finally fixed what andrew gershwin no no no i'm not going to say i wouldn't say they fixed everything but i'm not that impressed that when you're shoehorning that many villains and stuff in it's you're competing with a lot of screen i mean it's not the best of the spider-man movies but i enjoyed the movie okay do you think that in another multiverse do you think you and i would still be doing a podcast together and if so what would the subject be about um andrew garfield had sexual tension with mary jane in a different universe yeah you know adam no i think we would we'd still be podcasting pinball but we would be on rival shows oh saucy you don't think we'd ever meet up and collab i think i think we would meet at expo and people would gather around and they would record us as we had this awkward discussion for 45 minutes would somebody rope our hands together and we have knives at the end what is that what is that what is that called an ozark knife fight i forget it there's something dude there's a movie about it that was a dual style i forget what it was called of course you know that reference but not the [ __ ] michael jackson reference also training down this week is apparently not doing a background check and fully vetting everyone on your facebook friend's list word to the wise out there and efforts not to be canceled you just may want to take a day or so go through your facebook friends list just to monitor their behavior because if you do find someone that could be a troll account or even somebody that's just a genuine turd delete them immediately or you could face the public accusation of being an accomplished to their wacky statements i i listener i can't make this [ __ ] i put on a silly show i should probably just shut up and do my job so here i go also training down this week is the deep fail bobby mueller cabinet video oh it's my favorite video it's better than that spiderman i just picture poor bobby mueller as he is struggling you see how happy he was look at this [ __ ] innovation i'm about to slap my dick on everybody with this one just to [ __ ] pull it down did you see how confident he was flipping over that play field look at this [ __ ] rotisserie oh yeah lock it in place there bam and then oh yeah i got got some guy over here with his arms up yes i nailed it i saw it in much more movie turn if i may sort of borrow from spider-man zack i just saw it there he is spider playfield getting attacked by the greed goblin the creed goblin spin him around throwing up against and then boom that spidey strength comes in at the end and the green goblin's like in this movie catch a commercial catch a commercial cut god you know what it reminded me of it reminded me of being used to going to disney world universal studios and seeing these big steel contraptions of rides and you feel safe and then you go to the [ __ ] carnival and you see this accordion metal arm that's going both ways trying to fold itself in for the [ __ ] lupo planes you're going to die that's what it reminded me of how is this ever going to work deep root pinball oh you guys have got to see this video the confidence that quickly turned into embarrassment and a look at the camera that would even make his mom shake her head where did i go wrong bobby what did i go wrong you spent so long wondering if you could you never stopped to think that you should [Music] do you think bobby pinball stole his own mom's money let's jump over to another little sub segment of pinball market trends that we like to call deal of the week bye bye very quickly deal of the week we got a couple this week going up inside right now and you can find yourself an iron maiden legacy of the beast ellie with the aces high topper you can be like me this is what i thought i'm gonna buy this machine even though i have an iron maiden la just pull the topper and then resell the game shout out to travis murray for making that game into such a bastard that i still can't successfully play it m-m-i-c-m-a-n is the username out of york maine m-mike mann is selling an iron maiden la fifteen 15 000 which in and of itself about the price you're seeing ellie's go for about 15 16 000 on the secondary market for a decent decent shape one but this one comes with that topper that topper alone is 2000 minimum so you take that off the price you're looking at a thirteen thousand dollar really nice only 88 lifetime plays iron maiden legacy of the beast lee so few that's a bye bye bye bye bye i'm not i'm just amazed at that few of plays yeah 88 only 30 since the software update and look i see other mods on here as well they do have the speaker lights incorrect ones but they do have some but the toppers where it's at yo that's where it's at on that game and looks like they have the shooter rod as well the official yep official shooter rod from stern i reached out this individual i haven't had a response yet but i'll buy this game just for the topper and i'll just sell the game i have no problem with that if they're gonna ship just says pickups i don't know and your last deal of the week this week it it's not really a deal of the week it's kind of a deal of the week in this section well it's weird because i don't know where where to put this it's not put it in the show at all still the wtf look it's a minty johnny mnemonic zero cab fade no playfield wear game out of phoenix arizona going simply by the name of toby he's selling mcguire no this is toby's actual game i wonder if that's how he injured his back his environment johnny comes great responsibility this one is minty it plays fast zero issues a lot of photos and i've got to say this one intrigued me so much that i want to buy this game six thousand dollars though for johnny demonic i'm not saying it's the best price but when you go look at this dennis this game is legit beautiful it is clean as [ __ ] man i guess shit's not that clean it's clean as my kitchen floors be clean after you finish those fruity pebbles oh my [ __ ] [Laughter] the shooter lane is is impressive under the cab impressive under play field impressive the cabinet is beautiful where i'm throwing this in here is because the play field itself does not have any wear which can be rare on these 90s Bally Williams but i've never seen a playfield that is begging me to clear-coat it as much as this one there is no scoopwear dennis no scoopwear at all but if you look at the inserts they all have the lining the cracked lining around them which is common not a big deal but if you clear coat this play field because it's almost perfect but if you clear coat this play field you'll never have issues with those inserts lifting you'll never have any issues with it wearing anymore that this game does not need to be touched listener until it's clear-coated fully i know they did a proper you know uh refurb on it but it's just inside it's normal this your youngest son and you've just went and you got him cleared so when he wants you to pick him up you just go nope there's no lifting for you you've been cleared it's true you're just using pinball to solve all your parenting issues i'm telling you right now all the listeners that are interested in this the restoration nice minty stuff go find this right now and you will see i wouldn't want another ball in this thing until it is properly clear coated it's so close uh you know what i would pay this person if they're willing to have this clear-coated and shipped to me i will pay this person an additional fifteen hundred dollars so i would i'd give seventy five hundred dollars for this game and i'll pay shipping so reach out to me toby and we haven't had in a while dennis but this week's deals of the what is going on with this sale probably a nice fella right outside of detroit michigan east of lansing pac-man 11 i love you but i don't know what you're trying to do trying to sell an elvira in the party monsters valley 1989. plays great uh done a lot over the years brand new displays new titan all sounds good in the game game looks pretty good it's got bumps on the head it's got fade on the cabinet the playfields are always torched on these this one doesn't look totally torched you're you're in lane drop areas they're they're kind of ugly the game looks good but for the life of me you will never get nine thousand dollars sell sell sell for an elvira and the party monsters unless it's like restored what is this guy doing no they're open to trades dentists for newer games you know godzilla premium good luck attack from mars where he went to l.a wonka tron but no you're at a different you're in a different category there bro no you'd be better off looking for a sega godzilla a house or a routed attacks from mars but not nine thousand dollars popular he's trying to take advantage like the rails are dynamic you will let the market decide oh sorry Dennis Nordman i don't want wanna wanna upset you on your game here it's a good game it's a good game but nothing's been done to this game it's a good players condition game good players conditioning elvira and the party monsters that's a six thousand dollar game save your money go elsewhere or do the work yourself and who's to argue because as always look i'm just here reporting the facts people don't kill the messenger because numbers will never lie to me or to dennis on pinball market trends and for god's sake somebody find me a bounty come on radical got a thousand dollars for you here are they really gone dennis they i mean it's such a rare game cengas over overseas he says he's got one that's minty but dirty but minty but i'm waiting for pictures come on sanjay all right let's close it up dennis thanks for hanging out i'm sure glad this back half went faster [Laughter] episode 100 change is coming right oh yes it's changed everything just get rid of it quicker some people might like that most people would not though i don't think that episode i don't think my solo episode did all that great news nor should it have really but if people want to reach out to me regarding this episode they can always email eclecticgamerspodcast gmail.com or go to facebook.com collect a gamers podcast and shoot a message and those will directly get to me and you got to buy a hydra t-shirt i did you ain't cool unless you buy that hydra t-shirt oh went with gray huh no color uh you know it's my favorite that's my favorite color i thought about it then i was like great you know pretty much everyone agrees with wearing gray so yeah that's kind of mine gray is solid it's my favorite color too you might want to jot that down for trivia in the future but yeah yeah vanilla wafer gray banana pudding yeah great i got it all down you ever met anybody with gray being their favorite color yeah me oh are you serious yep you're not [ __ ] joking are you no i'm not wow i've never met another human being whose favorite color was gray oh no no [ __ ] listener like this made my whole day week your day is pretty sad if that's the most exciting thing yeah no i when i was a kid when i was kid it was blue and then i was kind of like no i i like gray more overcast days are my favorite not rainy i just want it okay like the sky is wearing sunglasses no no the sunnier the better for me nope skye is wearing sunglasses and that's pretty cool i just so want to smoke weed with you at some point i know you don't and i know publicly i don't but man oh man that would be great that would be great and speaking of drugs why don't you come to flipping out pinball my business to purchase your next pinball machine or accessory product showcase this week is the avengers infinity quest pro by stern pinball i only say that because i do have i believe two left how about it man dennis i had an avengers premium ship to a guy up in south dakota oh hey yeah fedex really [ __ ] that one up man it's like they turned it on its side and ran it down the hill and then they tried they tried to rap like cellophane or wrap a shipping wrap around it they couldn't even do that they tied it and not and they just show up on this guy's doorstep like uh so this how it was i have i'll give you this quick i may have told you this before but i know i didn't do it on air so i'll show it here when i got my godzilla premium courtesy of my purchase with flip now pinball the uh you had warned me ahead of time zach because you had you had the game delivered to you first yep you you told me hey dennis the game's now coming from me over to you but there was a hole in the box oh yeah i tore the hole bigger to make sure there was no damage to the cabinet there wasn't i taped the hole up but just be aware that's why it's going to be patched like that on the box so the local delivery people came they wheel it in on the pallet into my garage and i'm just going around making sure that there are no new holes in the box and i i'm just going around saying yeah i'm just checking the box and i pointed at the part with the tape and i said you would already inform me of this you know that was when you had received it and you taped it out and yeah yeah and well that was a yeah so and the delivery guy looks at it and goes oh well yeah no if we put a hole in the box we ain't going to the trouble of taping it oh god it's like you know if we do something like that no we're not going to bother we don't have that we don't bother hiding that leave that hole right in there i'm going around with tape and i was like oh okay fedex freight thank you for the uh transparency i like their motto fedex freight at least we're honest [Laughter] he was like i don't it was just here and i didn't want to wait for another machine and i was just hoping for the best even though and it was a cabinet decal and he's like but yeah i don't think i can deal with this and i'm like no absolutely not we're not going to deal with it so i did have an extra one we got it shipped out today and i'll wait a couple months for stern to fix that one so there's a good ending to the tail but i just don't understand the depth of some of the damage that i see and i'm like just how just how does this happen but you feel good with flipping out pinball we'll take care of you we got guns and roses ellie's in stock oh get you some art blades topper banner we've got all of that actually still waiting for the insider connected premium led kits but we do have pro kits in stock dennis which uh doesn't matter on your collection because you don't need any of those taking some alien pre-orders we have that batman 66 le that's pre-owned i've actually listed a lot of games for sale check out all the stuff we have in stock we've got mandalorian premium that's pre-owned right now we have a monsters pro rush pro pre-owned we have a game of thrones le pre-owned we have a led zepplin premium with mods it's pre-owned stranger things premium still in the box el virus house of [ __ ] 40th anniversary edition still in the box star wars comic premium or an le both pre-owned we have the home editions as well iron maiden premium pretty much new uh it's preowned jurassic park premium for sale tmnt teenage mutant ninja turtles premium or le both pre-owned deadpool l and the l.a might be gone but deadpool l.a i do have batman 66 ali i have just got in a simpsons pinball party minty as they come loaded with very nice mods powder coat got that as well a corvette hard to find George Gomez first production design pinball machine got that Revenge from Mars a maverick i'm stocked up and toppers i got tmnt topper stranger things toppers deadpool toppers guns rose toppers hell even have an ij deluxe topper from elite pinball armor godzilla mando led zeppelin avengers tmnt shooter rods damn near all of them are blades damn near all of them banners damn near all of them hell i even have shaker motors dust covers deadpool ninja star pop bumper cap kits it's eight one two four five seven nine seven one one tex is the quickest response time or you can just email me zaczy ach flip the lettering out pinball.com and we do have our website updated with all of this wonderful new accessories so flip it out pinball.com bye bye bye bye and last but certainly not least for flipping out pinball we have nicole and i actually have a big old announcement really big exciting announcement coming this week so a new baby oh no god no jeez but i do love the babies i didn't get any bad feedback about biting babies last week so that was good baby it's work for dinner maybe it's common don't you like how babies smell come here i'm gonna eat you i'm bigger than you i'm higher in the food chain get in my belly uh but they smell like johnson and johnson okay maybe that's what not the vaccine but like the shampoo it smelled like the vaccine no i said not like the vaccine like a booster shot yeah i want my baby back baby back baby back baby back baby back ribs for the folks curious uh on the pinball network last week we had several podcasts we had the final round pinball podcast with guest host albert agar we had triple drain pinball podcast without typical third ball or is he the second ball i don't know tom oh poor poor maybe he was the first ball but tom yeah uh you have to listen to it is there a rift uh brewing what's going on there and this wasn't last week but prior week we actually had an off the record we had a submission called the pinball tapes check that out feedback has been very actually let's go ahead and tell you i don't we don't usually go into numbers publicly numbers don't lie but it is our most downloaded off the record episode ever hold him i didn't even check that out nice yep i can see why that was a really good show yeah and uh and you all might want to check out hup challenges stream which was yesterday of the cactus canyon remake oh yes very nice all the love tpn thank you dennis and this week we have that continued tp and babies contest so when all kinds of stuff all you got to do is guess what tpm content provider baby picture is on our facebook page make sure you're following and liking all of that stuff and we have some upcoming events i think the bunker event is coming go check out tom graff's district 82 stream a couple of weeks ago that was a huge old whopper farm up there it's like a negative connotation now the whopper farm that is district 82 a hell of a hell of a stream on Fox Cities Pinball and in general if you like what we're doing here offer us some feedback by emailing the pinball network at gmail.com and buy some merchandise don't be a tight ass for dennis creasel i'm zach minnie and folks just always remember to infinity and beyond is an inspirational statement it is not a pinball design philosophy and always practice safe pinball and you can purchase almost anything from stern pinball but the one thing you cannot do is buy a stairway to hydra you say that every time i [ __ ] i know faster it definitely was faster there's a normal speed i just need to exactly just shut the [ __ ] up quit talking about deep room my name is nordman and i need a [ __ ] engineer giving me a responsibility to make a beautiful layout i need a co-host who's more concise why is zach so [ __ ] long-winded this is exhausting what is the famous jesus christ saying none of them roll off the tongue i know did jesus say anything are you thinking about the thing about like casting the first stone and stuff or what yeah just some quips or something i don't have any of those what is this what is it jesus saying thou have forsaken me no that was classified there's got to be something i'm the lord father do not be angry with them they know they know not what they do they know not what they do take my i'm fight you know how many masks i've sat through no i didn't know you were catholic well i was raised catholic yes i know you were raised catholic oh yeah but the minis were lutherans through and through oh it went close enough and unfortunately my neck does look like a vagina