Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week on the one and only Pinball Show, Dennis plays Santa Claus while I corral a new screaming goat and play Pinball Elf. We also chat Stern Pinball production updates, whether we will see a price increase on the next Stern Pinball Cornerstone release game coming in January, as well as some rumored video game licenses coming to pinball. Dave Fix giving the media plenty to talk about regarding the future of American pinball. Twenty twenty five listener predictions and hot holiday gift items on this edition of pinball market trends. Official Pinball Show club members get exclusive content on what we think of the rumored Call of Duty and Fallout themes for pinball machines, how they would translate to physical gaming, and if they would sell. Nothing is more jolly than a fresh new episode of the Pinball Show. Now let's listen in to see who will be opening up gifts of coal this year. Pinball is a game of skill. The sun, it's a passion and a lifestyle. it's time for the pinball show it's pinball with personality and you better watch out you better not cry you better not fight i'm telling you why say the clothes is coming to town say the clothes is coming to town Santa Claus is coming today It's episode 166 of the Pinball Show. Myself and Dennis Creasel here. I'm glad you clicked on the episode. I think people like hearing our voluptuous voices each and every other week. Well, some of them. You think haters are going to listen to us? There are always a few hate listeners. I never understood that myself. The hate listen? Yeah, the hate listen. I think I get it. Wasn't that like Howard Stern's model for years, though? I get the hate listen. I've never understood it. In certain circumstances, I get the hate listen. Like, if you're involved with, if you're the recipient of another party's said hate, thus you hate listen to make reference or to document it. I get the hate listen. It's a sad use of your life. But I get it. You kind of understand where they're coming from. I understand where they're coming from. Well, you know what? I don't understand where the listeners are coming from. Because what is with all this stuff, with them celebrating your CPOP-y thing? It worked. They love it. All right. Dear loyal listener, after we clicked stop on the recording, I told Zach, Zach, I think you need to remove all of those references. Yep. And Zach goes, I think I'm going to leave them in. I'm going to leave that one. I go, that's up to you. But I'm not sure that it works. And I said, I think it works. That one works. I think it does. I think it does work, Dennis. I think I'm doing this one. Listeners should know that at the end of the episode, generally, if there's any edits you think would be wise to make, you'll note them there. And then typically, recommendation-wise, yes, 98% of the time you're right. And I'm like, oop, thanks for the heads up. Oh, yeah, I thought the same thing. I'm going to take that out. And then you said, and I could tell you were either way. You're like, you might want to on the CPAP thing. I don't think it worked. And I said, and I even gave the heads up. I said, I think I might keep it. We'll see how it plays. But I think I might keep it. And I'm glad I did because everybody's been reaching out. Even customers are flipping out pinball. They'll email me. Hey, do you have a tracking number for that shaker motor? CPAPE. I love it. Yeah. All the CPAPIs out there. People love this. CPAPI. CPAPI. I love it, too. So much so, oh, I've got to tell the listeners this story before we get into the pinball news. I was, you know what? I'm such a supportive family man. I'm a father. I'm a lover. I'm a husband. I'm a good friend. I'm a son. I'm a lover. But last night, I was a supportive husband. My wife wanted to have a get-together with her friends, a Christmas festival of friendship. So she had over, I don't know, a dozen ladies, and they used our back building arcade, you know, party whiskey room area. Yeah, shed, thank you. They used the pole barn back there. The pin barn. Yeah, pin barn to hang out. And so she was feeling good having drinks. kids and i were inside watching steven spielberg's hook oh such a good oh broofy yeah so broofy oh yes wonderful and then we went to bed so you know the cpap in me set up my cpap i had my little nose thing on it goes around it wraps around up to my head and it's it's darth vader and you know i'm i'm asleep and she comes in a little bit more i don't know energetic and honest i guess with the drinks in her the eggnog and whatnot and she comes in and flips on the lights now listener if i would have done that if i flip on the lights when my wife is sleeping yeah that's trouble but she didn't give a shit she was buzzing hard and she came in and she started giggling i'm like oh squinting eyes i'm what are you doing like and she looked at me and she goes i feel like you're about to portal into an avatar body. She says something about heading to Pandora. It was so freaking mean. I see you. Nicole, this is so cruel. Blind him and then you hit him with the double whammy. You know he's super sensitive to all these coupon deals. I know it doesn't look good having the head thing. and she kicked me in the nuts. And I swear to you, the nerd in me was like, I tried to explain to her in that moment. I said, it's called transfer of consciousness, but it like took my breath away when I was trying to say it. I was like, oh, forget it. She took a shower and closed the door. I'm like, oh, man, she really burned me there. It's okay. It's all right, Nicole. I got you. She got a mean streak. Yeah, well, wait until you get coal for Christmas. feel like you're about to portal into an avatar body. That is not cool. The tube, like the tube. And I have to, speaking of Christmas, I have to thank you, Dennis Creasel. I had a very Creasel Christmas this last week. Ladies and gentlemen, listeners and fans of the Pinball Show, Dennis Creasel came through with the Christmas presents that were just so thoughtful and awesome and will be used. I had to tell people about it. So, of course, speaking of CPAP, He got me straps that they're more gentle on my face for my head so that you put them on the CPAP machine. I don't even know how you thought of that. How did you come around thinking of that? Well, okay. I was searching for it because you didn't tell me anything that you wanted because I was like, what do you want? Do you need like camera equipment? Do you need and you're all like, no, I basically have, you know, I'm a super successful guy. I don't really need stuff. I actually did search for some CPAP-y things, and they were all completely inappropriate. I would be sending the wrong message. So I think I started there, and then I was like, wait a moment. What do they have for CPAP stuff? Because you were complaining about how horribly uncomfortable it is. And so I started looking, and I was like, well, basically I can't do anything that will give you your breath back. So I can't really solve any of that. But I can allow your suffocation to be padded and comfortable. And so I was like, okay, well, I guess these look like they work with almost every device. So here you go. Yeah, they're covers, and they're so soft. They're gentle. I used them last night. And so thank you for that. And then the kicker, though, the kicker present that I got. This one was easy for me. Oh, I never even thought of this. It was something that has plagued me. I listened to all your mewling, all your whining. It was so good. Whenever I go to town, I'm like, I miss my bidet. I truly miss it. And you got me a travel bidet. day. It's the size of a cell phone. How did they even make this thing? It's like, I guess, a little squirter and it just... You just put in the warm water. It's battery operated. You can adjust the flow. I actually looked to see if they had a portable entire seat one. I wonder if he could put that in his carry-on. I would. I was like, no, but they actually, a lot of people have these little portable ones, kind of like a portable little toothbrush thing that folds up on itself. As funny as it is, I swear to you, I will so use that, and I will take that. So, listener, how great of a Christmas gift were those? Totally, totally appropriate and exactly what I would want without even knowing I wanted it. I saw on Greg Bone's page, though, what you got him. Holy crap. Oh, yeah? You got him a Terminator. I didn't know that you had been sent. I'd seen the Terminators a lot because your for-sale posts show up in my feed, and I saw that you've always had the Terminator in them. I didn't know that this was like a triple-layered meaning for poor Greg to have to sort through. Thank you for acknowledging that. Like, my joy in life, listener, is working on different levels. And I just, like, that was Troll Level 3 right there. It's just, I was at a stage where I bought him a, well, it was going to be a Terminator that I was going to have somebody restore. Like, redo the play field, new play field, new cabinet, all that stuff. So I had to have a donor machine. And this was a really nice game. Almost like didn't want to touch it. It was that nice. But it was still above average player's condition. So I got that. And then I had to acquire a play field. It was a whole thing. Almost too much work, to be honest with you. But then Brian Kelly, renowned, legendary restoration god up in Minnesota, the friends of Spooky Pinball, that Brian Kelly, he listed one for sale, a fully restored one. And for those of you who don't know, like, when people use the term restored here in pinball, especially for those people that are new. Give me a loose term. It's about 90% is not what I would even call close to restored. So, but this guy is legit. To me, he's second only to Hap. Like, he is. And I'm saying that just based on not too much experience because I haven't had two games, like, next to each other is the same example. But, so it's a fucking awesome game. So I bought that. And then I was like, here's what I'm going to do. This has been months in the planning. I know that Greg stumbles across my for sale ads because sometimes when cheap Sega's and shit are up there, he's like, tell me more about things. Yeah, he does seem like the guy who's like, hey, you got any Sega's lately? Absolutely. Any Space Jam? Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is my jam. He's bought a Frankenstein from me before. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. So he's always sniffing around. I'm like, I know what I'm going to do. I know that if he sees one in the background, he's going to probably assume that I'm going to, because I usually get him something like that every year. So he's going to assume that. And I know that he's not anal about it, but he's going to want to see the cabinet. So he's going to be zooming in and shit like that. So I made sure on any of my for sale ads that were close to that machine to have it kind of in the background so that he would see it and know kind of what he's getting without knowing what he's getting. So, you know, some cab dings and some scrapes and scratch. But still, awesome game. So he thought he was getting that, and then I surprised him. I said, look, I've been trolling you for the last couple of months. I knew you were going to be zooming in. I knew you thought you knew what you were getting, but no, that's not your game. And I didn't even list it for sale until this last week after I gave him his restored edition. That was so much fun. It was just fun to troll him for months. Like, that was my Christmas right there. Loved it. Speaking of Christmases, Stern Pinball is shipping out a lot of Christmas presents in the month of December. I've seen a lot of received posts, people going, oh, I got it in time. Q4 is hot right now, sending and shipping a lot of pinball machines from that factory. The last couple of weeks, they continued to make those Metallica remastered premium games, as well as they're now shipping the Star Wars comic pro and premium edition games that they said they were going to bring back for a run or two. So those are being made. And then they started late last week on some Stranger Thing pros. So, yeah, they're rolling. Just in time for rewatch of the show. I'm binging. I'm on season two. God, I love that show. Next couple of weeks from Stern Pinball, we're going to see Jurassic Park pros roll out of the factory as well as Jaws pros, Jaws premiums. I have to say this right. Jaws, Jaws, Jaws, Jaws. People still correct me. Jaws. Am I saying it right? Jaws? I guess. I didn't know you were saying it wrong. Yeah, I say Southern with Jowls with a nail. Black Knight Pros and Beatles Gold all over the next couple of weeks. And then January, Dennis, new Cornerstone time. It is. Is it going to be Dungeons and Dragons or is it going to be King Kong? Or is it going to be Pokemon? Pokemon. Oh, it could be. I don't think Pokemon. No. I kind of believe it's going to be either Dungeons & Dragons or King Kong. I still feel like we might be a little too early for an L1, personally. But it's never too early for an L1. Well, I mean, I'm thinking it's been a while since we've had a new Borg. I mean, the remaster doesn't count. But I think it kind of does. Remember, he said it gave him like 18 months to do it. So, yeah, but the play field, other than maybe a post on the left, is the same play field. How much time did it take? He's a senior. He's a veteran. He's gone out on the line with his walker. Yeah, just leave Borgie alone. I don't see it being a Borg. We're due for an Eddie. That's what we're due for. That's true. But then the rumors are like some kind of cool contraption in this thing isn't working right. So they have to bump it back again. What would be the cool contraption on D&D? Some of the stuff I wonder is just... I want there to be a gelatinous cube. A built narrative just for entertainment's sake. I don't know what's next. I honestly don't. I would guess... I still would guess D&D. That'd be my guess. But I have no clue. I do know what came last week regarding accessories. Those Metallica remastered accessories started shipping. Nice. Where are the John Wick accessories? With the Venom accessories. The one thing to note, they didn't tell us why or how or when, but the shooter rods for Metallica, Stern did not ship any of those yet. Really? Yeah, so it was just the toppers, the expression cabinet lighting system, and the armor. Hmm. Yeah, not the shooter rod. Maybe they needed the parts from them to fix all of the X-Men shooter issues. Oh, do we really? I mean, gosh, we've got to go there. I mean, for Christmas, it's a time of miracles. It's a skill shot. God. Skill shot. People want that. Look, they need that skill shot. Game's a lemon. Game's a lemon. I heard Joel, the Joel, and he was all like, why didn't they just make a button auto launch? Well, they do, but it doesn't. That one wasn't working either. No rod at all. Oh, I see what you're saying. Then it'd be a spooky game. When's the last time that Stern did a push-button launch? Have they ever? I don't know if they ever have. Maybe. Maybe in the Sega years. I can't think of a Stern pinball-branded Stern that did that. But write in to the pinballshow at gmail.com if you know the answer to that. Because I don't. Harley Davidson. I don't know. Did South Park have a? Maybe. I don't know. I don't remember. I do not remember. Godzilla? Did Godzilla have? No, I'm thinking of Sega Godzilla. Oh. I have so little experience on most of those Sega's I'm telling you look trending up this weekend let's kick it off are those Sega's if you all have some home use only Sega's your boy might pay prime dollar for those we've been longing for an X-Files in the Boston space I'm telling you I would entertain I did get me a space jam I did get a home use only space jam I like some of those and Data East like Royal Rumble I got that in for trade that's a pretty good game not a bad game especially for a wide body I don't know man so those Data East and Sega if you guys got some clean ones you know and the GNR game that they did was pretty popular and I think that the it's the same price as the new one ouch what what oh wow it's christmas we were he was slash was turning up last week come on not with his new coupon code oh bringing the new year with slash this price You're $5,000 off Okay I'm sorry Because I know it hurts you What else hurts me? Oh yeah, this hurts too As a dealer, Serum Pinball Didn't send all of the orders Of these Metallica accessories out So Even if you order a lot You just can't always get what you want Who said that? Was that Bob Dylan? Can't always get That's a Rolling Stones song It's not the Rolling Stones Bob Dylan didn't write it Maybe Maybe they both sang it I only know the Stones version That's what I listen to every time these accessories come out Because I'm like Oh, too successful at selling them So I don't get all of them Alright, wonderful But no, they're giving allocations for toppers So we've got more toppers coming From Flip N Out Pinball Hang Tight Sorry Sorry people I'm really sorry I have no explanation I don't know why they do it And then the cabinet lighting Yeah, we didn't get all of those either. What else? Do we have anything else? I mean, it's holiday season. Let's talk about some more down, depressing things. Oh, price increase on the next game. No, surely not. They need to hold the line still. They've been raising the price on the accessories. Everybody's talking about the price increase. The price increase is going to be $600. The price increase. Okay, so you heard it here on the pinball show. I don't think we're going to see a price increase. How about that? That's good news, right? Yay. Watch them be like, Merry Christmas, here's a price increase. I think they'll apply their price increase when Spike 3 comes out. Okay. I think they'll logic it and people will buy into it. Oh, we got to pay for the R&D on it so that we're ready to accept it. So you're saying probably then next cornerstone, not a Spike 3. Ergo, the next cornerstone is not a Spike 3. Yes, I am saying that. Okay. I could see that too. But I could see the Spike 3 coming out in 25, so I think you're going to see a price increase with that. Some people are opening up their Metallicas and seeing some components that we may see in the Spike 3 system, such as an upgraded power supply. Yeah. Then we might see that new power supply also in the new game, but a power supply does not a new system make. Very true. Very true. We saw, I think on the forum, somebody was posting some of the pictures of the power supply, beefed up power supply, more silent, I believe. And it has the components where you hook into the terminals. Those are exposed now so you can get to them much easier. So, yeah, that's already in there. Okay. All right. I knew there was something different about them damn games. I've got to say, still, I think pretty impressive because it's been, what, two or three years since a price increase from Stern Pinball. The argument being, well, yeah, you jacked up the price way too high whenever you did do a price increase. No argument there. I'm not here to argue that. I have no interest in that discussion. But what I do have an interest in is numbers don't lie. I only report the facts, and that is years have gone by since a price increase. Yes. Okay. That's good. That's true. That's good. I think it's been two years. Yeah, it's ever been two years. Maybe three. I don't think it's been three full years. Damn it. Fine. Look it up. I got it right here. I don't feel it in my bones. I don't feel it in my bonesies. Let's see. I'll look at the... I do have a price sheet from Stern Pinball. Confidential, you guys can't see it. This could be made up and we won't know. This was sent to me mid-December 2022 for the January 2023 prices, and they weren't changed. So about two years, yeah. Because they did price increases when the Insider Connecteds became permanent, which was with Godzilla. Because remember, all the construction, all the build material stuff got really high for a while because of the pandemic. And then they didn't revise prices down after those went down. Now everybody's talking about tariffs. Let's jump into that political discussion. Well, thankfully, most of the pinball machines are made in the United States. But a lot of the components probably do come from, obviously, the chips. So, yeah, we'll have to see what happens with that. Poor Canada. Oh, I've offered to buy more maple syrup, and a Canadian told me, it's not going to help, Dennis. We don't buy enough. I'm like, well, I don't know what else to buy from you guys. Speaking of what's coming, Nap Arcade, hearing a couple of possible studio titles from Stern Pinball in the future. These are interesting. So shout out to Nap Arcade. Thank you for these tidbits. Current rumors, but saying that, and they're studio titles, so 1,000 units or below. Call of Duty. These are video game stuff. Dennis, Call of Duty. Was it Activision? Yep, it is Activision. Call of Duty and Fallout. Bethesda property. Okay, so those are two of the largest video game properties probably in the last decade. Fair? Yep, they're big. All right. Oh, I can't wait to hear, because you're a video game guy. You can hear it over at Collective Gamers Podcast where they talk video games and pinball and mixed gaming stuff. Very rarely mixed gaming. They rarely talk about tabletop stuff, but it's still over there in their logo. It is. I would love to hear what you think about this, being so knowledgeable about video games. So we need to do that. We need to do that. And I'll tell you what I think about if these work as licenses or not, as a seller of pinball machines. And we could do that exclusively over the Pinball Show Club membership. The law. Yeah. We're going to build a wall where all the goodies are behind it. All you got to do is sign up. Go to pinballshow at patreon.com slash the pinball show. It's $10 a month. Look, treat yourself this holiday season. Sign up today, and you can go listen to exclusive content. You can join our Discord. You get high enough in those levels. Nordman level where you can ask questions. You can get cool decals. You can join us for the holiday hangout. I guess this month it will be. Well, yeah. Happy Hour Hangout. This month on December 18th. You can be a Screaming Goat Club member. You get your own nickname. Oh, so many cool perks, but one of them being exclusive content. And we're going to talk about it right now. Some Call of Duty, some Fallout. Does that even make sense for pinball? And if it does, does it sell well? What kind of features might be in it? Is this a good idea or this horrible for steering pinball? Listen now to find out. Oh, Dennis, I've got to say, we just got done with that chat. That was a good one. People didn't even go listen to that one. It's a little COD, a little fallout, and we might have sprinkled in a little halo there, too. Whoa. Coming soon, question mark? The Stern Pinball Cup is not only coming soon. It's upon us. It's here. Is this an accessory? Have you heard of it? No, it's a series of six. I'm not reading this for bad. Six-week-long races where players, Dennis, compete for rankings and badges. Any player competing in this, what they're calling Stern Pinball Cup, will be placed into a specific skill tier based on their performance in previous races. Your skill tier can be raised or lowered just based on the performance of each of the races So each race is going to have its own leaderboard That awesome Progress can be tracked using Stern Insider Connected app I might try Yeah I did hear about this over on Triple Drain actually I haven't decided if I'm going to participate. I might. It sounds sort of fun. It's just last year there was like the 12 Days of Kaiju, and I got really exhausted. So I just don't have the stamina I used to have. Stamina. I have to weigh that. I think this is the kind of thing that will be very, very popular in future years. The first year is like getting people educated on what it is and what you'll be looking forward to each and every year. It really comes down to exactly how these challenges and the leaderboards and the categories or the tiers, the skill tiers, how that's really going to work. Because, I mean, when I heard this, I just thought, OK, the tryhards are going to get really excited about this. And no offense to those of you who are really good and hardcore competitive players, mass respect to you, but you're going to ruin it for everyone else. No one wants to play against a bunch of try-hards. So I'm just like, you know, someone who's casual like me and doesn't have that skill set, I'm like, am I, like, whatever tier I'm in, am I still going to get my butt whooped by someone who goes and plays in league every week? Probably. So I don't know if it's worth my time. I have no hope of winning. Let's put it like that. As a reminder, listener, qualification has already begun. It's already begun, but you still have time. It runs through December 20th, the first race beginning on December 21st, right before Santa Claus comes. And if you miss out on qualifying, don't worry. You can just jump into the Stern Pinball Cup anytime in December or January. So buckle your seatbelts for the Stern Pinball Cup. That was my best effort there. they're not going to share it so don't worry about it oh no he shared joel street but they because everyone likes joel i know who doesn't well his co-hosts that kind of mean to him poor joel man that was such a good joke right there shout out to travis and tom okay american pinball speaking of hey sorry man i am on a roll today dennis let's let's talk about american pinball you know day fix visited our friends loser kid pinball these guys these loser kids man they're coming up with the interviews yeah we have to rename them to like winner bros or something yeah i love it this is the first time i think i've watched their uh an episode on their youtube you know what me too i don't know if it's because it it was more uh accessible to me whenever it first came out but Yeah, actually, I couldn't at the time find it on the podcast. That's why I did it. But I'm just saying I did it. I did, too. So if you guys did that on purpose, Loser Kid, nicely done. It worked. So Dave Fix from American Pinball. I think he's the CEO. I don't know what his title is. Well, after hearing this interview, I'm unclear. I think he might be unclear. I don't know. He visits the Loser Kid Pinball podcast not to promote a game, per se. I don't know why he was there. to clear the air maybe there were yeah yeah i'd say air clearing seemed to be the primary purpose it felt like there was some rumble i love whenever there was some controversy in the media and pinball and it doesn't include us dennis yeah i sit back and look yes i sit back and be like oh yeah not so easy is it so yeah i guess shit hit the fan behind the scenes in some media channels and then subsequently some media channels because of all of this there there's allegations of the american bill being being sued by a previous employee we'll talk about that but so much so that some of the media people start deleting all their shit they were like oh shit let's delete so that we don't get called into court we don't want to have to deal with this in any way so uh i think like uh what was it was it carry hard i don't know if carry hard is always involved in some of this So it might have been him. Nap Arcade. I think Loser Kids we're talking about. So people start deleting their shit. They're like, nope, not today. No, thank you. Ultimately, Paul Reno. Have you ever heard that name, Paul Reno? I have. Paul Reno co-designed GTF. Man, the legs that that GTF joke has still work today. Paul Reno co-designed GTF with Dennis Nordman. Now, I have not heard from Paul Reno directly. So this is just based on what I'm hearing around the water. No, because Dave Fix ends up confirming it here. Yeah, but since you didn't hear it direct, I guess maybe you heard it directly from Dave at this point. From Dave Fix, yeah. I wouldn't have reported on it until I heard from Dave here. But he said Paul Reno is attempting to sue American Pinball. And then that's where it got weird because I don't know if he's suing American Pinball or if he's suing Ametron. Dave Fix tried in this interview. You'll have to go listen, listener, if you're interested in it. But try to differentiate the two companies between the American Pinball Company and the Daughter Board of Ametron. I don't know how it works. It feels like Ametron is the big dog, and then the Daughter Board is the American Pinball. Yeah, I thought American Pinball was some form of subsidiary. Yes, yeah, yeah. So Dave Fix was talking about why this happened, such as, quote, discrepancies that need to be cleaned up. I don't know what that means. But nonetheless, Paul Reno is basically saying, y'all didn't pay me. You owe me money. You owe me money. And Big Worm about to come collect. Do you know that? Have you seen Friday, the film Friday at all? I can't imagine you watching Friday. I don't even smoke marijuana, but I almost want to get stoned with you and watch Friday. Listeners out there, can you blame me? That sounds like a lot of fun. Now, regarding this whole subsidiary thing, I will note this is per a Pinside post, which this is a screen grab. So according to the screen grab provided on Pinside from the Wisconsin Circuit Court access, it says that the plaintiff is Wing Ding Game Design and the defendant is American Pinball Inc., not Ametron. Okay. Wing Ding? Wing, like a bird wing, ding, like a ding, ding, ding. Yeah, all together, Wing Ding. Wing Ding Game Design LLC is the plaintiff, so that's the one suing, and the defendant is American Pinball Incorporated. Bitch better have my money. And then Dennis Nordman, we know that he'd been laid off. Yes. Day Fix talked about him still having a couple designs, though, with him. And then basically, Day Fix comes on and says, look, none of this stuff is under me. He, quote, out of my hands because the contracts or agreements for these employees or, you know, whatever agreements. Contractors? Contractors, yeah. They're with Amtron. I just run American Pinball. We're a small company, you know, small business over here. We got nobody. We got two guys that kind of know animation. We got nothing. He always says that in his interview. But this is with Amtron. This isn't with. But then you're saying, no, it's towards American Pinball. And my understanding is Paul founded Wingding. That's his company. Yeah, okay. That's my understanding. I have not confirmed that. But the suing is towards American Pinball. Yes, it doesn't. At least, unless the screen grab is incorrect or has been doctored, it says that the Racine Case County, it has a case number, is Wingding Game Design LLC versus American Pinball Incorporated. That is what it says. So a lot of changes going on. So that's ugly. I don't know what the hell is going on there. Paul Reno, I hope you get your money, if you're owed some money. I don't know what discrepancies need to be cleaned up, but none of this sounds good. Also, we found out throughout this interview, Jack Haeger, which I think was the art director over there? I don't remember what his position was exactly. I thought he was the art director. But Jack Haeger and Steven Bowden have been laid off. Both of those were, this was the first I had heard of this. Poof! Shit is going down over there. So, now, Steve Bouton, as people know, is a competitive pinball player. They're gone as well. What in the world is going on? Things are not looking so good. This is what's going on. They're not feeling good over there. We've been waiting for their next game. Then there was, like, rumblings that, like, Ametron people were telling the American pinball people, look, if you don't get rid of some of this inventory and parts and shit that we have money invested in, you're not going to buy parts and spend time making other machines. Like, no, you got to get rid of this stuff before you're allowed to move forward on another project. And then Dave said, that's not that that's not true at all. But I don't know. I don't. Well, he said it's not true. Well, sure. Oh, and kudos to Scott and Josh for asking really, I thought, good direct questions about all. Basically, every major thing I had heard about. They they I'll say they pushed him on it. There was no tiptoeing. He gave an answer and it wasn't really answering the question they were trying to get at. There would be a follow up. So they were asked some really poignant questions. They were really, really good interview there. It felt awkward at times, as it should have been because of the content in which they were discussing. So it feels it doesn't feel great over there. Well, I'm sure as we go along here, there are some final thoughts that Mr. Mr. Fix gave that if you still somehow were feeling good, you weren't going to after he made those statements. To go on, he talked about this Barry O's game was like this white label game. I still don't understand why it's not that good of a layout. So a white label game that they've got three pending licenses for that they're going to redo that for. He said that unfortunately the company is still in the red, Dennis. They hoped it would be in the black, but damn it. We all often hope our companies would be in the black. It happens. And then there's often a building up period. Amazon wasn't built in a day. I love towards the end. Scott bluntly just asked. He said, look, hobbyists are concerned that American Pinball is not going to be around next year. Dave Fitch replies, quote, that's a good question, Scott. This was what I was referencing. He went on to say, quote, I don't know where we're at on this. And, quote, goes on to say, you know, it's not really up to him. He says, quote, it's like getting hit by a bus. It could happen at any time. End quote. I mean, well, on the road, I guess, kind of. That was a weird. I'm not going to pick apart the analogy. It was a weird analogy there. It was an interesting choice, but not as interesting as the choice to say, you know what? Yeah, what a great question about us maybe not being around in 2025. It did not instill confidence. No, exactly. And I respect what I'm going to interpret as the honesty here with that statement. Very true. That being said, it reminds me of when Haggis put out that announcement saying that they needed to recapitalize. And I'm like, I appreciate the honesty, but that's not going to let anyone – like if you needed to sell games, that's not going to help get dollars into the door. I would have wondered, because after I heard this whole interview, I wondered what was the benefit here of doing this interview? because I would almost rather people be rumoring stuff than to come out with this type of information. Oh, you mean what was the benefit to American Pinball? Yeah. Because the benefit to us was great. We'd get a whole set of content to talk about. Absolutely it was. Even as a business partner of American Pinball, it helps with business decisions as well. Because they don't communicate this stuff with their business partners like myself. I have to hear it on a podcast. Yeah, it was very, I would describe it as a little, yeah, surreal. To me, it was surreal because it seemed like, normally when I would see something like this, I would assume it's a damage control tour. But the damage control mostly seemed to be everything that you've heard either isn't quite as bad as what you've been hearing. Like, no, we don't have to sell everything out. Or I think there was a part about, you know, it was phrased like we had 50 barbecues we need to sell. We only had to sell three of them. But then there was also this stuff that was more along the lines of it's someone else's fault. Yeah. And there seemed to be a lot of that. It's a everything that was a problem is Amtron's problem. It felt to me like washing my hands of like, I just don't want you guys blaming me. And and I really don't understand, especially given if the screen grab is accurate that I referenced earlier about American Penval being the defendant in the lawsuit, not Amtron. that you're commenting on a case publicly. That's scary. That was the other thing. It's like, did Ametron's lawyers not talk to you about this? Because normally people, I know consumers hate it, but there's a reason why companies say we don't comment on pending litigation. That would be the first thing I would say is, hey, you guys, now that you guys are undergoing, like if I'm their attorney, so I'm like, just shut up. Nobody say anything. We got to figure out what's going on here. because Dave said he reached out to Paul Reno, and he's trying to be the middleman and trying to calm all these – I'm like, oh, God. But everything else was kind of like a – I came away from it with this still – when Scott and Josh pressed him on – so Dennis Nordman's come out and said, the way you retold – your rendition of his departure is not at all accurate. And he was kind of like, well, Dennis is basically wrong is what it sounded like. But he didn't want to – like, well, we got games. We still got some Dennis games available. But like, like there was still a relationship there. And then there was the whole like with Steven Bowden. It's like, well, but, you know, we're already in talks with Steve about about bringing him back later. It's a weird statement. It's like weird. So what are you trying to are you trying to convince Steve to keep his like not take another job? That's weird. Just keep his options open and not take another job. Or maybe it plays well to the public when you're on a podcast to say such. I mean, and another part was the whole they're doing like this holiday shutdown and people are going to have to burn their vacation or something. I didn't understand that either. Look, Josh Coogler months ago, Josh Coogler was saying that he was waiting to get paid, too. Remember that? Yeah, I recall reading that. Buffalo Pinball, when they interviewed him, because I thought it was almost embarrassing. He was like, hey, and if anybody's watching, Dave Fix, I'm still waiting for my money. I'm like, oh, my gosh. well i just the everything that was said did not i felt like he was trying to instill confidence by swatting down like some of the stuff that came out of maybe carrie hardy's videos and stuff about or some of the things nap arcade had reported on about you know the the numbers like they can't build cuphead until they sell out of whatever but but the rest of the interview is laced with well you know we've had to you know send people home without pay for the christmas period like great yeah that resonated really well we had to let go of one of the most popular people in pinball Steven Bowden didn't have a really good refutation to what dennis nordman had been saying one of the most respected designers in pinball and then they end with a it's a good question if we're going to be around in a year or not but but also this whole i don't even really know where we're at financially i'm hoping 2024 is going to end up looking good but until ametron tells me like they have no sense of their own money it was weird like so i'm gonna all right i work in government okay it's not the same it's not the same thing but i work in a department with about 180 people okay all right i am not the finance guy all right but when i want to know something about money i can ask the finance guy and i get an answer so if i need to know if someone's violating budget they don't normally keep me completely in the loop on that because it's not my job to manage their budgets, but if I want to know about a budget, I will get a breakdown on a budget. If I want to know if one of our cost centers is losing or making money, I can find that out very quickly. This holds a sort of, I don't know, I'm not in the loop sort of thing. I'm just, we're just, you know, Ametron does Ametron stuff and they also handle all the employment contracts and everything. Why doesn't the VP know about any of that? But they're your people. Yeah. How do you not know what the arrangement is with your people? I, it's weird. Maybe that's by design. And I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just saying it's weird. It's just a weird system that's going on over there, if that's the case. But anyway, hearing all of this, and the whole thing with Polycade. Oh, yeah, that's weird. You talked a lot about the Polycade. They got this. Yeah, pushing Polycade, which is like a built-in wall unit all-in-one video game player. But they're not making them. No, I thought they were. He talked up the assembly, which is smart. I think if they're not selling games, they should be using their assembly line for other things. Totally makes total sense. That whole story. Remember, I brought that up a couple episodes ago. Hey, they're going to be doing stuff with these polycades I'm hearing. Yeah, but I thought that meant they were going to put them together or not. They're made already. It sounded like they're storing them and occasionally slapping on different decals. They said American Pinball helps with the space, the shipping of them, kind of some modifications, different models or decals. My worry is that that contract isn't making very much money then. No, it keeps people busy, I guess. warehouse space is cheap and sticking on decal says and take all that long and i don't know it's the communication thing because dave fix was kind of complaining it almost felt like hey there's you just have to call him just reach out he made very clear he made very clear that you know these damn podcasters i am obsessed with listening to everything they create but all they gotta do is reach out just reach out and i'll let you know how wrong you are and if you bring me on your show i'll let you know how right you know the situation is he made that very clear we'll get to that soon but yeah the the polycates thing the the communication seems like he's frustrated with like i don't know i'm not giving any power amtron handles it all so i'm wiping my hands out they don't tell me anything it's what it felt like the blame game here but then like it's polycade stuff i'm a dealer i have no clue but like they He said, yeah, at the early 2025, you guys will be able to start selling these things. We'll let you know more info. And then I heard them talking about it like, oh, these polycades are selling well. Like, who's selling them? What? Well, some of our dealers. I don't. So there's a communication breakdown there. Well, sure. No, that reminded me. There's a part. I don't remember. He said they just got back. I don't remember if it was IAP or some other show. And he said they sold a lot of Hot Wheels. I think it was Hot Wheels. I was like, well, how many is a lot? I don't know what that means. I have a sort of Hot Wheels all year, I don't think. Because I have a – my tummy, my gut, my gut tells me a lot is still under 10 to him. And to me, a lot is not a single-digit number. A single-digit number is not a lot in this industry. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I would love to know what a lot means. And then here's – just to put a cherry on this Sunday. Here's the things that ruffled my feathers as being part of this industry as a distributor. They were talking about the next pinball machine from American Pinball, the rumored cuphead kind of thing. It's licensed. He can't comment, and I understood this. I can't comment on a license until the game's ready to be sold. And he really pushed like, hey, we would have liked it to have been an expo and all this. But the reason that they keep on bumping it back is they want to make sure it is done. Mostly he was talking about the code and such before launching the new product. Great idea. if you have people that actually can code it and you don't lay them all off. So they keep bumping it back. So the, and that, and then, and then a very Dave Fixian statement comes out. It always like just grinds my gears. And I'm always like, what the fuck, man, what are you doing? I'm going to read this quote. It says, quote, this one, we want to make sure it's, it's ready. Now at expo, here's this like bravado here. Now at expo, It was there in the back rooms of the American Pinball. Select high-profile distributors were in there taking orders for the game, loving the game, giving us their feedback and so forth. Code was not done, though. Code was not ready. End quote. Oh, so you've seen this. So it perked my interest because I thought, well, wait a minute. What do you mean it was at Expo? I wasn't at Expo. Well, I think what it means is American Pinball is located near Expo. Yeah. And then the back rooms of American Pinball, select high-profile distributors were in there. I don't know who this fucking Justice League of Dealers is, but I'm over here, Phil. Why did you say that name? What the fuck is this? It looks like a high-profile distributor. They're select. They're high profile. They're the Justice League of Distributors. Like, I heard that. I invented the cup and necktie. Swear to God. What the hell is this? So I thought to myself, what does one have to do to be one of these select, high profile? Man, I work really hard in this industry. No tortuous interference for one, Zach. Maybe start with that. I get a big landscape to advertise. I would love to know who these high profile. So that was one thing that kind of grinded my gears. The other. So you're saying you weren't one of them. I was not. It's the first time. And again, I'm hearing about it on podcast. These dealers are taking. They took orders for the game. That was my other thing. I'm like, wait a minute. This I'm going to. And I understand that reaction. I'm going to pause you. Okay. He might have again while he's speaking. I'm wondering if, again, kind of like the whole at Expo, it was in the back rooms at American Pinball, if it's like that where he meant they were taking orders from those high-profile distributors. Okay. And, again, I have an issue with that. Why? Why? First off, why? Why are you taking orders for a game that hasn't been launched? Also, why are you prioritizing dealers? Because what would happen then would be certain selected dealers that have the same terms and agreements of other dealers are given different sets of terms based on, we don't know, based on their own change of terms to get ordered. So when you order something, you get in a queue. And then, like, if I order something now, am I now behind the Justice League of Distributors? Because then that would. So from a business perspective, this might not interest a lot of people, but it's all about timing. It's all about, like, how much am I going to invest based on the products I'm getting when I'm getting them? If somebody tells me we're going to make 500 units of something, this is a dumb example, but to make it plain, we're going to get 500 units to make of something. And we've sold the Justice League 450 of those. there are 50 left that are going to be at the end of the run whenever they're on the secondary market and people are trying to move them. Would you like to buy any of those 50? Versus, hey, you get five of the first 50 coming off the line. That's a big difference in what I'm going to purchase. So I was questioning what taking orders for the game meant. Because why are the terms different for one? Why aren't they discussed if there's different terms? It's just a business thing. So yeah. Very interesting. Well, that did remind me when you were going through all of that that there was also a part of the interview I thought was a little perplexing. And it was talking about GTF and when it was at TPF. Dave has a portion in the interview. You all should go and just listen to the interview so you can hear it exactly. But he has a portion in the interview where he sort of explained how they had playtested GTF and there weren't any issues. And then when they showed up at TPF, all of a sudden the targets weren't working right. And he even talked about, like, taking them in their hand and all of a sudden they're bending. where and i'm it was again it was just surreal to me i'm like am i supposed to believe you tried to bend them in your hand beforehand and that somehow when they were in the truck on the way to tpf they became like rubber or what because the way it sounded was like someone had swapped the targets on them or something because there was there was it didn't make sense either the testing wasn't true or something that happened in the intermediary time period a case in point i'm gonna use haggis again where maybe their playfields were fine until they sat in containers that weren't climate controlled and then all of a sudden the playfields weren't good so something happened to the condition of the game between when they tested it and when they put it on the floor or uh they didn't actually you know try everything with the targets as much as they claim they did yeah it was again it was just a but it was it seemed like a this wasn our fault it wasn like this later run like when Spooky was doing TNA they had a batch where they had the whole chipping clear coat thing happen but it wasn't on the first ones, and then they did changes, and then it wasn't on the last ones. But on this, it was the same game, but somehow the games they tested became bad, magically bad. I'm glad that he is so open. Blame someone else. Oh, yeah, there's a reach out. So I did. I did reach out Friday morning and reach out to Dave Fix and one of the sales guys over there. I asked him, Dave Fix, hey, you know, I heard on this podcast, unfortunately, I'm hearing on a podcast information about our business agreement. But, you know, I'm wondering what I need to do with my company in order to be identified as one of these select high profile distributors. Would love to know what the qualification requirements are so that we can work towards this type of designation in the future. Or maybe what we're not doing well. I'd like to know where I can improve. Also asked about taking orders on the game. Where does that put me if I then take order with the regular, you know, non-mutant schlubs of dealers once it comes available to us? And the salesperson responded back with me. But as of this recording, I still haven't heard back from Dave Fix. The issue here is like maybe as a dealer, he just doesn't get back to dealers. Maybe it's just the podcasters, but damn, I'm a podcaster too. I'm like a hybrid. So I thought I would get a response back, but no, no response back. And the salesperson basically couldn't say that they didn't pre-sell them to the Justice League of Dealers, but, you know, not really. Mostly, quote, mostly it was just intent at this point. What the fuck does that mean? Mostly. I have no idea. They mostly have intent at night. mostly american pinball figure it the fuck out god merry christmas spooky pinball in the news are they yes they're still in the news they're they're still running hot training up on evil dead they're doing very well and they they control q4 with their product launch corwin emery also known as bug visited the loot damn loser kid pinball podcast again oh no again he went on to talk about just different production stuff over there. Spooky Pinball saying 16, 20 games a week production goals for Evil Dead and he hopes that they're going to sell out of the Evil Dead units. He said this year. I would be surprised if it sold out. I would too, but hey, they've got time. They could still do it. It's a good thing to have. And then Bug went on to stream Evil Dead, him and Luke, over on Bug's Scream and Stream channel last Thursday. So go check that out. Speaking of Spooky Pinballer buddy Joel Engelberth has some gameplay videos of Looney Tunes. Of course he does. Yeah, as well as a tutorial on Flip N Out Pinball YouTube channel. Go check him out. Do you think Joel's going to Grim Reaper the Evil Dead game? Oh, no. Like he's done so many spookies. No, no, no. Certainly not. He had some Looney Tunes bugs towards the end. Bugs, you know. Oh, I see. Yeah. So, yeah, go check those out. The holiday season. And, man, this has been such a festive episode. I love all the positivity. I'd ring a bell, but I don't have one. I guess I got my one bell. Yeah, every time a bell. The pinball holiday season is upon us. So much so, have you been following up with this Pinside Secret Santa thing? No, I don't do that. I love to watch this. I know you do. I know you do. Well, you're like Santa Zach. I'm a little elf. You're a giver. I'm a little elf. You're a giver. Yeah. So, yeah, the pinball Santa strikes again for another year. Somebody gave away a freaking pinball machine to some. I wouldn't even expect it. People won't even expect it. And bam, pinball machine delivered to your door. I think that's the coolest thing ever. And the reason I bring it up is because sometimes during the holidays, you get down and stuff and just everything's commercialism and all this. But it's nice that an anonymous source out there is still willing to like almost as giddy. I can I can tell you because I interact with this anonymous person. They're as giddy and excited to give such a generous gift as the person receiving it. Who's overwhelmed to receive it. I just love that there are people that are still out there doing so. So good on that person. And I this year got to be a little elf again to coordinate some of that. and I thought I was slick, Dennis, because I have to coordinate it in a way that's still a surprise. Oh, I see. I can't be like, Hey, man, your secret Santa is generous. He's giving you a pinball machine. Where do I send it to? So I said, Hey, it's Zach from Flip N Out Pinball. I wanted to reach out to give you a heads up on a package coming your way. I'm trying to do an elf voice. How am I doing? That's a five out of ten. I'm nothing more than a simple elf carrying out the duties bestowed upon me by the beneficent Pinball Santa. No, not the pin-sized Santa. The pinball Santa is very real. I guess you've been a good fellow this year. It weighs about 25 pounds, and it's an awkward size, so I had to go reindeer freight. You see, because I'm trying to stay in the theme of reindeer freight. They should be contacting you in the next couple of days to set up a day that they can drop it off. Merry Christmas and happy holidays. So, look, that's pretty clever, right? Because I said it's awkward. That's why I had to go freight. Because otherwise people are like, why is he going to go freight? So I said 25 pounds because, you see, I left off the zero for 250 pounds. I see that. But, Zach, they're going to be there by themselves, and they're going to be like. I don't know what happened. They're going to have a little dolly or a little. They're just going to have their. They're not going to have their weightlifter belt. They're going to be like. They're thinking it's a play field or something. It kind of happened that way. But, you know. And they're like, oh, my God, thanks so much. I'll be on the lookout for it. And then they messaged me exclamations. I think a zero got lost in your communication on that weight estimate. But this is unreal. Holy crap. I'm still speechless, blah, blah, blah. So they had to scramble and get some buddies to take it up a flight of stairs. It was probably worse. It was like an urban area and stuff like that. If they listen, know that I do sympathize for your back. Yeah. So it was so much fun. So they got a brand-new Foo Fighters Pro pinball machine from Stern Pinball. There goes my zero. Oh, you're so good at that. So happy holidays, everyone. And speaking of holiday, we here at the Pinball Show did our own holiday giveaway. That's right. Sponsored by Flip N Out Pinball Pinballs. The rules were simple. You guys followed them. Were they simple? Yeah. There were a lot of people who were like, I wanted to go longer. That's what she says. I'm like, no. How about no? The rules were simple. Audio segment. One of two things. You could have done, if I was a Screamin' Goat Club member, what would I be? What would my nickname be and what sound would it make on your show? Or they could go, what's my pinball prediction for 2025? Some of them do both. But you know what I was surprised at? Over $2,500 worth of giveaways, a lot of giveaways that we had here. We said courtesy of Flip N Out Pinball. The ratio of submitting to win, very high. We have thousands of people listen to this show. And it's like this, what was it called? the social psychology principle. Somebody's getting beat in the alley of an urban city. Nobody calls in because they think the other person is going to call in. So, yeah. Well, and this year doing an audio request and not just like a post share, it's a heavier lift for people. You lazy bastards. It's a heavier lift. Just know that we appreciate your submission. So much so that before we announce the winners, let's go through all the audio segments, Dennis, that predicted something for 2025, And then we can kind of bounce our thoughts of their predictions. You want to do that? I do. All right. 2025 predictions, which I think are more hopeful, wishful thinking. Somebody make that Motorhead game into a production version. Let's get an Ozzy Osbourne slash Black Sabbath from Stern. That would be sick. And Stern should outsource or have a different group do their accessories. because I think it's too much for the designer to handle, especially towards the end of the process, and it's not getting the love it deserves. Bye. So Brooklyn Penn coming out saying they predict Motorhead will come out. Do we see that happening? No. I don't. No. Okay, Brooklyn Penn. I'm not getting rid of that idea altogether, but in 2025 maybe not. No. How about that? What about Black Sabbath? That could eventually happen but I also don't think 2025. Not 2025. I think it will happen. I don't even think it's in development yet even if it can happen. And then Stern giving the reins of accessories to some other company. That is more wishful thinking I think. I think he's right but part of his argument being about the developer here's the thing. There's the concern that you start to have that disjointed lack of integration because you've got different cooks in the kitchen doing different parts. And that's often been a criticism when you have a different cabinet artist versus a Translight artist versus the Playfield artist. And I think the same thing applies to an accessory. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think the designers are the ones doing all those accessories anyway. Maybe not all of them, but I think Topper development does tend to fall under the design. I think they might give a nod to it at times. It probably depends on the person. I think it's fundamental frustration is how slow Stern is at it, though. And that's true. They are slow. But the profit margin is, I think, so high on those things, they're not going to let someone else make that margin. Sadly, I know, because I've already inquired about it. Let's listen from Dennis on his predictions. Me? No, not you, but listener Dennis, not host Dennis. Zach, it's D-Party. here are my 2025 pinball predictions from stern i predict we're going to see dungeons and dragons we'll also see pokemon oh possibly a king kong whoa and one vault i don't know if it'll be tron or lord of the rings but i hope it's lord of the rings That's all, I'm out of time, goodbye Well thank you Deep Hardy Okay, so I'm out of time Some pretty strong predictions there Him saying Dungeons and Dragons, Pokemon And what was it, oh King Kong King Kong And then a remastered Tron All in 2020 He's saying there's your layout Lineup for 2025 from Stern Pinball It's pretty good Other than the remaster Or what he called a vault I think it'll be another music pin. I don't. And while he would have preferred Lord of the Rings, Tron is a far greater likelihood since it's a Sam system game. Yeah, I think Tron happens before Lord of the Rings. Yeah. And I don't think we see a Pokemon this year. I'm going to say, eh, maybe. Some pretty strong predictions. It'd be smart. I know it's not in any of the main rumor lineups, but. Let's take a listen from Matt, listener Matt, on his 2025 prediction. Hey, Zach and Dennis. big fans of the show keep them coming my 2025 prediction slash hope is that pokemon pinball comes out hopefully by jack danger in the fall i think insider connected would be so cool for pokemon okay thanks to flipping out for prizes thanks guys bye oh look at him another pokemon pick. But this time, picking the design, I actually, if they do it, I do think Jack takes it. I think that part's right. I think it'd be a very good choice for a designer on that game, yeah. I think people really want Pokemon, the more I'm hearing. I mean, so many of them actually, at this point, we've got so many collectors who grew up with it themselves. Let's hear from Big Merv on his prediction. Hey, Zach and Dennis. This is Method Own. I want to wish you guys a great 2025. And my prediction for next year is that Craig Bobby is going to make a massive comeback. Oh. We miss him. And we're looking forward to more insights, breaking news, and all the good stuff that he brings to the pinball show. We've got a Craig Bobby fan out there. That's right. A Craig prediction. But I have to call back. It's so hard to disguise yourself for that long without becoming the furniture itself. he's become the furniture himself he's frolicking in the forest now getting back in touch with nature picking mushrooms i don't know maybe we will maybe merv maybe you're right maybe you're right but uh we'll just have to wait and see we'll see what chad's got to say about a prediction in 2025. Hey Dennis and Zach, this is Chad from Atlanta. Love the show. You said my name first. And my 2025 prediction is King Kong by Stern as their next cornerstone. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. King Kong. Solid pick. That's pretty realistic. That could definitely be it. I think we got a high percentage of that happening, but who knows? Technically, what if it's 2024. Is that a misprediction then if it gets announced? Well, gosh, well, I mean, if it's a significant toy, does that Let's hear another prediction for 2025. This one coming from Mike. This is Mike Dynas from Pinball Shenanigans and my prediction for 2025 in the pinball world is that There will be a lot of shenanigandous behavior and a whole lot of shenanigans involved because there's just so many shenaniganders out there. So there you go. Oh, OK. Sure. I think I hate that word now. I'll think about it. I haven't decided quite yet. All right. Turning down this week's shenanigans. All right. It reminds me of the Dead Lizard movie. Super Troopers? Or is it Dead Lizard or something kind of lizard? Are you thinking of Starship Troopers? No, Super Troopers. It was like a comedy. Oh, okay, the coppers. Yeah. Alright, let's listen in on Chris's predictions. Hi, Zach and Dennis. My 2025 pinball prediction will be that Stern pinball will increase prices and that American pinball will go out of business sold off by amtron sold off wow he is a predictor after my own heart i don't think stern raises the prices on the pin well i don't i have to hedge because if spike three comes out i think they do so you know what i do think he's right i do think he's right i just don't think it's gonna be the first cornerstone um and uh no comment on american football but but uh after our discussion things ain't looking so hot right now like everybody's so uneasy about it's like all right i mean to be fair over on eclectic gamers that has been my prediction for like the last five years oh shit okay uh nicely done chris nicely done is what i'll say i do if we're gonna get a price increase maybe i can see the hotness of like doing it right before Elwin or like a Q4 kind of stuff, maybe. Because then they can stretch it to be like, it's been four years. Burying it into Elwin is smart, but I think if Spike 3 is imminent, they'll argue an R&D argument. I can see that. They did that, like you said, with Insider Connected. Sure. All right, Greg, what do you got for a prediction 2025? Hey, Zach and Dennis, love the podcast. Thanks for doing it. my prediction for 2025 is that Stern will continue with the success of doing remasters and do another one next year. My guess is The Lord of the Rings because everyone loves it and it would sell really well. Otherwise, maybe Walking Dead. Have a great Christmas. Well, Merry Christmas to you as well, Greg. As we noted, the remasters are definitely going to keep happening, but I can't see either of those games getting remade. Not this year. Not this year. And I don't I just don't see Walking Dead getting remade again. No, no. It's that poor game. I just don't know that they honestly would move enough units. Still my favorite game, but the theme. It's a theme killer at this point. And Lord of the Rings. Hobbyists love Lord of the Rings, but the movie's 20 years old at this point. I just. That's an evergreen license. So I'll always disagree through there. It's just. Well. That's why they did Rings of Power. It works. They've never shown any interest in revamping anything that's White Star. That I can see, but they figured out if they want to make some money. All right, let's see what John has to say about 2025 predictions. In 2025, the Spike 3 system comes out. They're going to allow operators to take payment through the insider predictions. The patron is going to scan their phone. I thought that was his quarters. They're going to pay for their Godzilla play or whatever the new Spike 3 system is. That's his dog named Quarters. And it's going to allow the operators to get paid. Everybody's turn will take a couple cents, I'm sure, and everybody will be happy. Oh, and maybe they'll also allow the operators to be in the Bahamas drinking a margarita and set all the games on happy hour pricing. Why not? You know what? That's actually not a bad idea. Yeah, no, remote capabilities to adjust features and stuff, that would make a lot of sense if they get these operator aspects embedded in. I'm not sure they're operator-oriented enough to do this, though, anymore. I think that they're going to lean more into what Insider Connected can do for operators. I just don't know an in-house payment will have in the 2025. I don't think so. That's interesting. I mean, yeah, you know, well, I just want to wet my beak. I just want to wet my beak on the collection. But a lot of operators are already using devices that they want to incorporate in and to be told that you're going to use our version. And that's what seems to be implied by that. I don't think they do that. What about pinball XP? XP plus. Yeah, no. I don't know. Did anyone make any predictions on pinball experience? I like that. Please. No. John. The answer was no. You don't get to. John wants to do some several because he was like, I'm tempted to become a Screaming Goat Club member so I can join the show and talk about the top 10 things I'd like to see from Stern using Insider Connected 4 operators. So that would be a fun discussion. Come on, John. I dare you. I dare you to do it, John. Let's see what Dan has to say about predictions. my pinball prediction for 2025 after the success of metallica we'll see another remastered music pin in november next year this time a system to turn system three the greatest american rock and roll band retired from touring this year seems like the perfect time to remaster aerosmith at songs and concert footage maybe you give jackie a facelift with some uv paint and some led eyes like metallica if not aerosmith my guess is acdc but i'm kind of hoping for aerosmith selfishly. Here's my audio clip if I join the club. Hey, baby, kablam! Oh. Oh, shit. A twofer. He slid in a screaming gun there. You know, Aerosmith's actually a really fun game. It is. I don't think about it much because I haven't seen one in years. It is a good game. I don't think they do it in 25. No. It's actually not a bad idea. Not a bad idea to run more of them, but I don't even think they need to remaster them. I think they could just run more of the pros, like they have Black Knight. I had one come in on trade, Dennis, a week or so ago. I tried to price it high just so that I could play it more and Joel could stream it. Damn thing's still sold. That is a hot game right now. It really is a hot game. It's fun. The toy box is a cool toy. At the time, everyone was kind of comparing it to Houdini's, which had a further shot and such. Easy enough to understand, but plenty to do. There's a good risk-reward for deciding when you want to start that multiball for the toy box all right travis what you got hey zach and dennis this is travis outers um just want to give my prediction for 2025 i predict that in october 2025 specific we're gonna see elwyn geeski oh and packer team up for Kong pinball and yes I will own it the anticipation was killing me there he really knew the timing I'm going to use every 30 seconds I see you shiver even throughout the coder too yeah wow that is a really specific prediction I don't know if Kong I wasn't thinking Kong for October obviously that's a very specific prediction I do think he's right that he'll own it Yeah, sure. Yeah. As will most other pinball owners. And it being in 25 is realistic. And you know what? I do think if they're going to put, obviously, we just probably decided they're already working on it, of course. But Elwynn would be the right answer. It would be Stern going, we need to recreate the magic of Godzilla. Oh, wait, Kong fought Godzilla. Let's have him do King Kong. I couldn't, I could not agree more. I heard, I don't know if it's Canadian. Somebody was recently talking about the artwork, and they're like, I don't think that you should go Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) for Kong. It should be more nostalgic. And I almost threw my phone. I was like, fuck off. Throw your phone. You can't. What? Like, what a dumb decision that would be to go anywhere besides Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti). They're not generic IPs, but you don't have a tie into a strong, like, Godzilla movie right now or anything. It's not like Minus One or anything. It's just generic Godzilla or just old Godzilla. and old Kong, you want them to look like they belong in the same universe, sitting beside by side. So I think anything, I feel so strongly about this, anything besides Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) doing the same stylistic approach as he did on Godzilla is almost as big of a fail, actually is more of a fail, than not bringing back the same designer. It has to be. Oh my God, it's the same universe. Don't mess that up. I feel really strong about that I can tell I don't photo realism Kong sitting next to Jeremy Packard Godzilla I'm going to go into the alternate trans life business at that point alright Ely what do you got hey what's up pinball show this is Ely Wenzel from Pennsylvania my 2025 prediction for a new pin would be a wrap edition so we got lots of pins that have rock heavy metal, classic rock, but I don't know of any rap pinballs and I'm thinking maybe do a Snoop or a Wu-Tang Clan because you've got lots of members. So that's my prediction. Rap Pin 2025. Snoop or Wu-Tang? Yeah, I mean, he's named two really obvious ones to do, but I think the industry is still too scared to try rap. I just think they're too scared about it. They don't think it'll sell. I think they're wrong, but I think they think that it won't sell. And 2025 is still too early for them to do it. I don't know if it's too early, but I just don't think we'll see it in 2025. I think they think it's too early. I don't think you start with Wu-Tang. It's still a strong one for people. I was never a Wu-Tang person. Still a strong one when it comes to rap and hip-hop. But I think there are more palatable, more mainstream. More mainstream. Thank you. Like Eminem. Eminem, Dr. Dre. Snoop Dogg is a good one. Yeah, I was thinking Dr. Dre, too. Snoop's a good one. Snoop's so loved now, too. He's just widely accepted. It's like the fallout of rap. There's multifaceted there. So, yeah, I just don't. Or even like you could cheat and say Beastie Boys. That's like a nice, we're warming up to the idea of rap and hip-hop. It's like it's still kind of, you know, rocky rock, but then, yeah, it's mostly hip-hop. Okay. And then our last prediction is from Johnny. 2025 prediction. I predict Evil Dead will sell. What game was he playing? I'm trying to think right just off of that queue. It one that I think I have It was a JGP game I don think it was I going to start it off Let me play Oh it that I heard that before Damn. Okay, we'll play. Sorry. 25 prediction. I predict Evil Dead will sell out, but not until after Pinball at the Beach. Okay. In Q1. Was it February? Yeah. I believe Kong and... It's Labyrinth. I don't know well enough. Dragons are the next two Stern games, but they won't sell as well as they expect them to. Oh. Because I kind of think Stern's kind of flying the market with too many machines. Oh, that's interesting. What do I know? I predict I'm going to win. Oh, okay. Win something. Thanks again. We will have to see. Okay. Okay, so Dungeons. I can't. His theme picks, yes. Yeah. The sellout for Evil Dead, sure, that seems like a relatively realistic time frame. Storm pumping out too many machines? I don't, not really. I don't think so. They're just back to the old pattern. I don't think so. I think they're setting the standard for the entire industry. He may very well be right about them not hitting the targets that they might be hoping for. I'm not, you know, that's hard to say. I don't know what they're hoping for for Dungeons and Dragons. That's the thing. Because I don't think it's a good thing. My tummy tells me my gut, my good old gut. It tells me they weren't happy with how Venom did. They weren't happy with how John Wick did. Thus, they're probably not too high on what, I mean, you know, it'll still sell enough games, but they know it's no Elwynn. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't think that a King Kong Elwynn undersells, you know, maybe his prediction will be right. Maybe it just sucks. But, yeah, history does not suggest it to suck. But we'll see. Now let's go to the potential Screaming Goat Club entry. So these individuals said if they were a Screaming Goat Club member, this is their nickname, and this is the sound that they would make. Let's start with Jeremy. If I was a Screaming Goat Club member, I would be the pinball plunger because I get things in motion, and my sound would be this. He had such a rich voice that you hear this really flat. That was like the driest spring ever. Fucking Jeff Teolis, and then it turned into, I won't say a bad podcast, but damn. Oh my gosh, Jeremy. The Plunger. I think that works as a Screaming Goat Club member name. I like it simply because it would give the shaker motor a friend. Oh, at least he would have another part. He'd have another part, yeah. Because we've gone so animal heavy. I want to hear Jeremy talk again. Wow Some of my favorite people I say hey there Zach and Dennis I figure I would put in an entry For this year Holiday give-a-ween as it were Give-a-ween This is Foghorn Leghorn from the Pinball Juncture And I say I figure if I was part of your Exclusive membership club I reckon I would be Delicious fried chicken with 11 herbs and spices It might sound a little bit like this Oh wow Wait a second I figured there might be something better I would sound like. That would be a cease and desist order. Thanks for the give a ween. Keep on keeping on, guys. Got to get those royalty free sounds. That frying sound was sort of creepy. That was. That was some ASMR shit right there. I almost felt like my face getting pimples. I was like, oh, boy, that's a lot of grease. Man, I love, I say I love some foghorn in Craft Bruce Sally. Let's listen to another potential Screaming Goat Club entrant. This is from Scott. Hi, this is Scott. If I was in the Screaming Goat Club, my noise would be the doink-doink noise from Law & Order. Oh, okay. It's like I have never heard it referred to as the doink-doink. So when he said it, I was like, where is this going? And he said, Law & Order. I'm like, the dun-dun noise? Yes, he meant the dun-dun. What would you call him? the Doink Doink. I call it the Dun Dun. I know, but what was his nickname? His nickname would be the Dun Dun. Imagine it said otherwise. Doink Doink. That's that. Doink Doink would be good for the plunger rod sound. That'd be a more doinky proper sound. Doink Doink. Doink. Okay, let's hear it from Brian on what he would be. Hey, Zach and Dennis, this is Kaz. My pinball name would be the Squelch. The fake stern knocker. Oh. Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah. I didn't know that sounded like the Godzilla at the end. Okay. So I like the nickname the squelch. Yes. That was good because it almost makes me think squirt, but a mechanical action of squelch. But he didn't include the sound. No. Or whatever it is that you're like, oh, shit, something's going wrong with my game. The squelch. Thanks, Cos. And our last, let's go with Coulter. Season's greeting second, Dennis. I submit for your consideration my thoughts on being a prospective Screaming Goat Club member. If I were, I'd be a knocker. But not just your average everyday knocker. I'd be the cock-a-knocker. What? The associated sound is the thunk of a pinball landing in the bottom of the cabinet when it transgresses the playfield during gameplay. also can you gentlemen urge my boss to give me a massive raise so i can bye bye bye yes nicely done coulter boss he needs a raise there is a i helped you out there is an audible sound that is very distinctive when the ball falls into the playfield there was a game once that like had a sandbag that was it cubert i think it's cubert where a sandbag would actually fall and sunk at the bottom of the cabinet when Qbert would fall off of the grid. That's really cool. Yeah. Man, why can't we have more Foley in pinball? I like that. Thank you again to all of those who entered into our holiday giveaway. Pinoween? Giveoween! Giveoween! Giveoween! People like the giveoween, too. They do. Let's give away some prizes. The top prize was the $1,000 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles topper by Stern Pinball. This randomly goes to John Tyner. congratulations congratulations john yeah email me all you all need to email the pinball show at gmail.com let me know where i'm shipping these to and such so uh john uh congratulations the stranger things armor set what a cool little set with the with the lights on the side and stuff i like it uh congratulations this goes to sterling martin sterling congratulations done the mandalorian Pro Translight. That's a cool wall hanger. This one goes to Martin and Jennifer. Oh, the Foghorn and Craft Brew. Yeah, the Foghorn and Craft Brew. Craft Brew, Sally. Nice job. I dare say that you're going to have to get your own frame, though. And then the Mandalorian Shooter Rod. We've got two of those. One of them is going to Matt Wagner. Congrats. And one of them is going to Greg Annie Potts. Oh, congratulations. It's done, guys. Avengers Infinity Quest Interactive Shooter Rod. You can almost, I think, some people put that on different games. How is it interactive? Well, it interacts with the code, and it flashes based on what you're doing in the game. Because I'm like, shooter rods are already interactive, so I don't understand. Oh, I see. Yeah, manually. It's not like just a random Chinese LED RGB thing. All right. Cool. Dennis. Dennis, party. What? Yeah, you get this one. Not you. I mean, I don't have an Infinity Quest, but... And then the Avengers Infinity Quest interior R-Blades go to Scott Guthrie. Thank you for submitting, Scott. The Beatles banner. Beatles banner is going to Jeremy Newbold. I think that was the creamy voice one. And then the Godfather banner is going to Brooklyn Penn. That's kind of fitting, actually. And then Jurassic Park player mat goes to our friend Mervyn. Those mats are cool. They are. They are very nice. and they're good on the back. And then a handful of flipping out pinball t-shirts. One's going to Chad Willem, one's going to Dan Murphy, and one's going to Johnny Swanson. And Jonathan, I know you go by Jonathan, but I like Jonathan. Is this the shirts that say, are they just flipping out logo shirts? Are they the white ones or the black ones? I think they're the black. Okay. Is that the red or the white? I never get this right. If anybody can name that, I'll give you a t-shirt as well. Email them at thepinballshow at gmail.com. The reference to the movie, one of my favorites. And the Pinball Show decorative decal goes to the squelcher, Brian Kosner. Thank you guys so much for being what we'll call holiday screamers. We've got to thank. These individuals are like presents to us throughout the whole year. They're the most supportive, financially speaking. Yes. and they keep us happy. So thank you for a wonderful, most wonderful 2024. And we look forward to all the fun festivities that we're going to have in 2025. Thank you specifically, each and every show, to Rodney. A fucking bop. May he find a cat scratch post that isn't a wife. Oh, yes. That's very good. Oh, shoot that fucker. A fucking gift for him. Thanks again, Steve, and your bumblebee. Bumblebee! They have a robotic bumblebee that moves and stuff. Oh, wow. He should do the score to it. Is it like an AI drone? Yeah, no, it's kind of like, they have like an Optimus and a Grimlock. Some of them transform, but they do have a Bumblebee one. It's got the Gen 1 voice actor does the voices, and it like walks around and stuff. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I like it. So thank you, Steve. Thank you, Rob. Is there some kind of mechanical... No. I know what I would get him. I mean, probably, but... I would get him an old $5 bin DVD set of Ron Burgundy. Yeah, that's what I would get the Panther. You're going to get him the cheapest stocking stuffer cologne possible? No. The Brute. Do people still wear Brutes? I got so much Brute growing up. What do you think the odds are that one of our Screaming Goat Club members still wears Brute? I think there's a 5% chance. Five sounds about right. What if we threw the Old Spice in with it? Old Spice, we're getting up to 25%. Someone there is using Old Spice. If not aftershave deodorant, I use Old Spice deodorant. Well, the deodorant, sure. But I'm talking about... You're like, that's normal. The original. And you know what? You shouldn't use that. There's aluminum in those. They're good for you. Like to cover the stench of the chum when you're out looking for a Jaws. A Jaws. I said it right for you. Thank you. Thank you again, Frank. I would give him a little hood that doesn't let him see. that they put on the Falcons. I love that in the winter, people wear their little beanies, but we're just going to make one, knit one that covers his eyes, too. Yeah, thank you, Dave, the shaker motor. Maybe some new screws because yours are wearing. Maybe. Or one of those new plastic covers that after you put it on, you're like, how is this cover supposed to fit on this in this tight space? You know what we've had lately? A batch from Stern that they're missing the screws that hold that plastic cap on. Really? Yeah, so people are like, I need screws. and poor Greg Bone like, shit, like, damn it. And then he was just going to go to the hardware store because it's easier. Yeah, like he's just going to go down to Ace Hardware and buy something. But he tried to, but then there was some certain kind of lock to idle. So he's like, damn, I can't just make it quick. I got to submit a warranty. So shout out to Greg Bone. So Dave, thank you for all your shaky ways. And Joe, thank you, Joe, for the continued support. Foxy. I would give him a little plush hound toy. The fox and the hound. Oh, yes. It's kind of not one of my favorite Disney films, but it's there. It got made. It's cute. Thank you, Charlie. It's there, and it got made. It's a movie. Ringing endorsements. Charlie, thank you for the support. Charlie messaged me. He was like, check out what my daughter bought me. He got one of those screaming goat things that I've got like 20 of them. People have sent me all these. People just give them to you all the time. They always gift me with the screaming goat toy. They all think they're. Guys, if you think you've come up with a clever joke, someone's already done it. But I collect them now, so it's fine. But Charlie sent that to me. But as of the bell, hmm. Brass polish. Solid. That's solid. Gotta stay shiny. That's kind of like powder for your balls after a shower. Like, it's just... Talc? Talc. Talc, but for a bell? I've not gotten to the point where my balls need powder yet. I don't know. It's a weird thing. Eh, just hasn't got there yet. They don't sweat enough. Thank you, Will. William. Or should I call you Mr. Dude? Brought a fucking Pomeranian bowling? Brought a bowling? I didn't run in shoes. I'm not buying you the fucking beer. He's not taking your fucking turn, dude. I still love listening to these call-outs during the show. White Russian mix? Yeah, you got to give him the white Russian. Got to. Or maybe a carpet cleaner. And Dennis, I'm here to tell you, believe it or not, we have a new Screaming Goat Club member! Oh, stand up. Applaud because we have a new member joining the ranks. Welcome to the club, Josh. What an American name that is. Josh. I have a cousin named Josh. Well, Joshua. We call them Josh. Five new people joining this club. I would guess that one of those five guests would be a first name of Josh. Josh is they know pinball and they got their shit together. Josh, welcome to the club. Thank you so much. Now, all those cheapskates that sent in their audio files, those are the bootleg Screaming Go Club. You get appointed a nickname from us. Oh, yes. And Dennis, do you approve of this nickname? It was so obvious. I feel a little bad. They will know that it's obvious. They won't. But we had to do it. And it's such a great nickname. You can go all kinds of ways. A lot of innuendos in there. And Frank's not by himself. Oh, wait. That's true. Another bird is joining the rankings here at the Pinball Show Screaming Go Club. Remember, it's none other than the rooster. That's the worst impression I've ever heard. You don't like that? You're like, I want to do it, but I don't want to blow out the mic. Oh, my God. Welcome, rooster. Oh, man. Cock of the walk, baby. Get you some, Josh. I'm going to rock out with my cock out. The rooster. I've been waiting to add a rooster, and this works perfect. Who doesn't love it? For Christmas, he's got to get a comb. I just want to stroke his little chin, whatever that thing is. His gobble, gobble part. It's like a gobbler light. I just want to flick it with my fingers just kidding now don't let foghorn get a hold of them that's true do you think that's a warm part of a rooster or a cold part do you think it's dead skin like a scrote what is that do you think it raises up whenever it's cold and then it lowers when it's warm jeez Josh has now cancelled his subscription thanks for the month Josh we do appreciate it I just want to hear what nickname and that's the worst No, the worst shaker motor. About every quarter we discuss if David's needs to be changed. It's so bad. We're like, we gave it. The force has spoken. We can't countermine the force. Yeah, we're just part of that. It flows through us. So if you want to become a Screaming Goat Club member, all you've got to do is sign up to the top level at patreon.com slash the pinball show. So otherwise, just as low as $10 a month or $25 or $100. Join us now. We have a lot of fun. Over at Discord, like, for example, right now, we had some pretty girthy discussion on our private-ish Discord about the recent Jersey Jack holiday deal where they took off $2,025 to ring in the new year on Guns N' Roses LA. A lot of discussion and thoughts going into that. And, you know, from a dealer business perspective, I told people behind the scenes, like, this is kind of what I feel about it. Here's some good points that maybe some consumers might not take or might be interested in. So we've really had some good discussion in the Discord about that, as well as other topics, as well as people getting their Metallica toppers and whatnot. It's fun. And as a reminder, the next Pinball Show live happy hour hangout for those part of the Pinball Show Screaming Goat Club and Nordman levels on Patreon, you can tune in this Wednesday. This Wednesday at 8 p.m. we're going to be doing that. So that's exciting. Link is already shared to those categories on the Patreon, so that's where you can find it. And it wouldn't be a Merry Christmas without the most merriest fucking part of Christmas, and that's pinball market trends! Oh! I like your style, dude. Training up this week is Medieval Madness Remake. I know CGC is playing fucking up all of 2024. all of 2023 i'm sorry cgc i'm just reporting the facts here you guys are fucking snails man but mmr is this is crazy dennis it may be the biggest hit of 2025 how the hell is that even a possibility is that not beloved is that not the most ringing endorsement for that game in general it's below it's our longest interested list it's what people ask about the most it's going to be the most solid product that we already know when it does come out. It's going to have accessories. It's going to be everything. And when I say 2025, I probably mean the second half of 2026. But it's going to be a great thing. But it's trending up because it's held value over the years. People still want it. It's still one of the most requested games. It's hot. It is hot. And they could print those things and make those things forever. Trending up is Medieval Madness Remake. Also trending up this week are the Stern games. Man, during the holidays, that's what sells. They're Stern games. Specifically, Godzilla Premium, Godzilla 70th, Metallica Remastered, and Jaws Premium. Those are selling at least 3 to 1 to any other title. Probably higher than that if I did crunch the numbers. But it's not like this is a market trend segment or something. But those are the games that I guarantee I'll ship a handful this week. And you know what? I could probably still get a game to people. Also trending up this week is the Stern Expression Speaker Lighting Kit. this has become the color dmd of 2024 everybody is buying these things to fill all of their previous titles uh you haven't got one of these yet have you uh no i don't have a speaker like a shooter knob yeah they don't do anything for you but people are buying i've noticed during the holiday this is like a threshold in which people can either buy a gift for their loved one or a friend that it's not like breaking the bank so we're seeing a lot of these and Shaker Motors. Like every day, we have these speaker lighting kits and Shaker Motors selling every single day. So that's training up. All's training up this week is Christmas, man. Just enjoy your holiday season, everybody. We love you. We love the support. And you're always going to be training up in our hearts. And, of course, elsewhere. CPAP. Unfortunately, this week training down is the Legion. the Justice League of Dealers. Oh, boy. Fucking what is this? Turning down this week is the Justice League of Pinball Distributors. You know what I am this week? You know what I am, Dennis? Jealous. I'm jealous about Cuphead and taking orders. No, I'm fucking Pinball's DC Joker, baby. Yeah, that's right. Sometimes the most popular is not in the in group. They're in the out group. I'm the Joker, and the Justice League of Dealers is trending down. What's that make-day fix? All right. And as always, people, I'm just here to report the facts, because numbers don't lie, neither do I. I'm Pinball Market Trends. That's right. You know it's coming. Dennis, where can people catch you? You can email me at collectorgamerspodcast at gmail.com. Wonderful. And you guys can email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. I really liked the audio segments. I think we could have some fun with that in the future. What do you think, Den Den? Sure, but it's a lot of editing, so just don't fight off more than you want to chew. I like the interaction. I know. It's fun. 2024 has brought even more crust to my fucking burnt out crispy toast, but that's okay. Join us on the Pinball Show socials like the Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. We would appreciate all of that. Discord, all of that. Straight down the middle of video series. I'd love and appreciate you supporting that by following us on YouTube. And Flip N Out Pinball is the official sponsor of the show. When I buy my pinball shit, I buy from Flip N Out Pinball. From toppers or play studios, I've got it figured out. Flip N Out Pinball, figured out. When I take a pinball, I think Flip N Out Pinball. Flip N Out Pinball, figured out. When I buy, buy, buy, I buy from Flip N Out Pinball. Buy, buy, buy. So go and like and subscribe. Joel wanted 5,000 subscribers on the YouTube, flipping out. He got it. He got it. Nicely done. This year, I told him, I said, I'm going to impose a goal now, Joel. 5K, whoop-de-doo. Those are small fries. I want 10K by the end of 2025. That's doubling the subscribers. Let's hope we see some exponential growth instead of additive. Pressure's on. Figure it out. The product showcase this week, it's got to be all of those Stern games that you're going to order. Buy, buy, buy! Do it. Just order it now. Free shipping. Flip N Out Pinball. I still think we can get it to y'all. Unless you're like crazy West Coast, but I still, maybe, just maybe. Let's try it. Flip N Out Pinball equals Flippin' Fast. If you guys follow the stream on the, what's it called, on Pinside. Somebody had a thread. They were nice enough to give us some praise and kudos. So I love seeing that. We have all the games, all the pre-orders, whatever the hell you want. Our goal in 2025 of flipping out pinball is to make your decision to purchase from flipping out pinball just a no-brainer, a default. Like when you get your whatever it is from Amazon, you're like, I just don't think about it anymore. It just makes the most sense to do it. I have to like Zach, but I mean, duh, it's flipping out pinball. That's our goal. And 10,000 followers. I think next show to close out, that's right before the new year, we're going to go over all of the different things of the year. Probably, right? I think that would be cool. Yeah, yeah, I think so. It'll be like our recap, our annual recap. Yes, our annual recap. We'll do that. I got that portable bidet. We'll make it a party. Flip N Out Pinball with Friends. Make sure you check out Joel. They were doing Looney Tunes. I don't know what they're doing this week. Also, check out Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. Flip N Out Pinball sponsors them. They're doing some really cool videos, too, now on YouTube. So please go follow and subscribe to them over there, as well as being kind of the frickin' go-to podcast for all these interviews. So nicely done. And I can't emphasize enough, speaking of YouTube, make your way over to the Retro Ralph channel, because as of like a week or so ago, Flip N Out Pinball is now the official sponsor over there at Retro Ralph. And everybody loves some Ralph doing video games, and pinball is a recent pinball obsession. So a nice partnership has formed. And his recent video, he did a video about what manufacturers are not telling you, what they're hiding from you. So you'll definitely, number four, will amaze. All right, Dennis, teach these people something. I ain't got anything special to teach them. I'm just going to say happy holidays and thanks to everyone who submitted stuff for us to talk about. Oh, damn, look at that. Yeah. I'm swell. and always practice safe pinball and it's transfer of consciousness nicole over here play with my my rooster