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Episode 117 - PS5 Wheels

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 24m·analyzed·Jun 15, 2020
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TL;DR

JJP breaking even; American Pinball's Hot Wheels promotion criticized as disorganized vs coordinated competitor model.

Summary

Eclectic Gamers Podcast Episode 117 discusses pinball manufacturing news, including Jersey Jack Pinball profitability turnaround and operator market expansion, and American Pinball's Hot Wheels promotional strategy. Hosts Tony and Dennis analyze Hot Wheels' fragmented marketing rollout across multiple content creators and platforms, comparing it unfavorably to Jersey Jack's coordinated multi-prong reveal strategy for Willie Wonka. The episode also covers Steve Epstein passing and Gary Stern's 75th birthday.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack Pinball has been breaking even for well over a year (since approximately Wonka's release)

    high confidence · Brett Abbas, JJP owner/investor, stated this directly on the Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast first episode

  • JJP moved manufacturing from New Jersey to Chicago area to consolidate with design teams

    high confidence · Brett Abbas confirmed factory move completion on Jersey Jack Pinball Podcast

  • JJP reduced standard edition pricing by $1,000 with Wonka by removing the Wonkavator mech to penetrate operator market

    high confidence · Dennis confirmed from previous JJP announcements; Jack Guarneri stated standard edition was rarest model due to high cost

  • American Pinball's Hot Wheels is positioned specifically for location play, unlike their other games

    high confidence · Joe Schober and Michael Grant (new marketing person at AP) mentioned this on Pinball Players Podcast

  • Steve Epstein, founder and former president of PAPA, passed away recently

    high confidence · Dennis read news on morning of recording (Sunday, June 14) - exact death date unclear but very recent

  • American Pinball failed to adequately promote Straight Down the Middle's Hot Wheels promotional videos despite coordinating their creation

    medium confidence · Dennis observed videos posted Friday but Facebook post was deleted, no links shared on AP's website or social media despite coordination with content creators

Notable Quotes

  • “Well over a year at this point, they're breaking even. And they see the path to profitability.”

    Brett Abbas (paraphrased by Dennis) @ ~14:40 — Confirms JJP's financial turnaround; significant transparency from private company owner on investor call

  • “The rarest model on many of their games, I think all of their games where there was a standard, was the standard. And it was because it was really expensive.”

    Dennis (citing Jack Guarneri) @ ~16:45 — Explains JJP's LE/Premium dominance; standard edition demand problem that pricing fixed

  • “Why are they not promoting the promotional video? I get that it's great that Straight Down the Middle has promoted their own videos, but why hasn't American Pinball shared them?”

    Dennis @ ~39:30 — Core criticism of AP's marketing strategy; identifies specific failure point in coordinated campaign

  • “This does not look like how you promote a pinball machine... they have all this content that they seem to have arranged... Why are they not pushing on all fronts?”

    Dennis @ ~41:00 — Synthesizes marketing concerns; contrasts with JJP's multi-channel approach

  • “They had a four-prong attack on all on the same day, shoving all this content out for people to consume. I thought... that was a really, I thought it was an excellent idea.”

    Dennis (describing JJP's Willie Wonka reveal strategy) @ ~46:15 — Establishes gold standard for coordinated manufacturer marketing; clear template AP failed to replicate

  • “It's like they're doing a half-hearted effort. It's just weird to me.”

    Tony @ ~50:30 — Summarizes perception of American Pinball's Hot Wheels campaign as unfocused

  • “I don't think they have a strategy... Either they changed their plan and it didn't get completely moved everywhere, or somebody in the chain decided they wanted to do things differently.”

    Tony @ ~52:00 — Proposes explanations for marketing inconsistency; suggests internal miscommunication or mid-campaign pivots

Entities

Jersey Jack PinballcompanyBrett AbbaspersonKen CromwellpersonAmerican PinballcompanyJack DangerpersonStraight Down the MiddleorganizationSteve Epstein

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: JJP completed factory consolidation from New Jersey to Chicago to align manufacturing with design/creative teams

    high · Brett Abbas confirmed factory move completion; logical operational improvement

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball breaking even for 'well over a year' (since ~Wonka) after investor injection; path to profitability visible

    high · Brett Abbas public statement on first JJP Podcast episode; aligns with Wonka pricing strategy timing

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts question whether pinball industry marketing effectively reaches beyond existing enthusiast bubble; suggest targeting mainstream streamers (Seagull, Tim the Tatman, ItMeJP) could penetrate wider audiences with 1M+ viewers

    medium · Detailed discussion of viewer counts comparing pinball streamers (150-500 viewers) vs mainstream streamers (1000s-millions); hypothetical value of mainstream platform crossover

  • ?

    event_signal: Steve Epstein, founder/former president of PAPA and operator of Broadway Arcade (NYC), recently passed away

    high · Dennis read news same morning of recording; significant community figure; exact date unclear but within 24-48 hours of episode

  • ?

    event_signal: Deadflip conducted primary Hot Wheels live stream reveal as professional streamer; faced initial internet connectivity issues but completed broadcast

    high · Jack Danger announced stream; Dennis attempted to watch but encountered connection problems early; stream eventually stabilized

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.254

0:00
This episode of the Eclectic Gamers Podcast is brought to you by the Empire and the Roanoke Pinball Museum in Roanoke, Virginia. The Roanoke Pinball Museum. It is an interactive museum more powerful than the Death Star itself. It is powered by science and history of pinball. Its mission is to cultivate curiosity in science, art, and imperial design. The museum is open every day except during Order 66 and Mondays. It houses over 65 machines with models ranging from 1932 to 2018. If you only knew the power of the Roanoke Pinball Museum, join me and together we will explore the entire universe of pinball.
0:58
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, June 14th. This is episode 117. I'm Tony. I'm Dennis. We have a ton of video game stuff, Tony. I've seen your notes. There's a lot of stuff, but I think we can cut through it pretty quick. I'm hoping it's not going to be too insane.
1:33
We have a couple of interesting topics to cover in pinball. I don't think they'll be all that long, but we will also play another Build-A-Bank, the hit game that everyone loves. That you win.
1:45
Sometimes. Every time. Well, we'll get to that. It's been a couple weeks, Tony. What's going on? Not a whole lot. just been doing some stuff around the house. I'm getting things laid out and ready. I've got a what's the best way to put it? A week-long, unplanned, unpaid vacation coming up due to COVID reasons. Oh, we commonly refer to that as a furlough. Yeah. So, I'm laying some stuff. I'm going to be doing a whole bunch of yard work around the house during that week. So, I'm getting everything set up and getting some of the early stuff knocked out and then just getting ready for that joy.
person
Gary Sternperson
Joe Schoberperson
Michael Grantperson
Jack Guarneriperson
Deadfliporganization
PAPAorganization
This Week in Pinballorganization
Buffalo Pinballorganization
Dennisperson
Tonyperson
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Hosts discuss optimal multi-channel reveal strategy: combination of podcast (audio format), written deep-dive (article format), professional promotional video (polished editing), and live stream (authentic gameplay) creates comprehensive consumer touchpoints

    medium · Dennis cited JJP's Willie Wonka reveal as exemplary; included special when lit podcast panel, Buffalo Pinball live stream, Straight Down the Middle video, and This Week in Pinball article all same-day

  • $

    market_signal: Implied competition for attention from multiple simultaneous releases: Hot Wheels vs JJP's imminent next game announcement vs Stern's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

    medium · Dennis mentions assumption of imminent JJP announcement and TMNT 'stealing oxygen'; suggests crowded release window reducing Hot Wheels visibility

  • $

    market_signal: American Pinball's Hot Wheels marketing appears disorganized: fragmented content rollout across separate days, selective promotion of content, deletion/repost of Facebook materials, failure to share coordinated creator videos

    high · Straight Down the Middle videos promoted by creators but not by AP; deleted/reappeared Facebook post; no shared links despite coordinated production; contrasts with JJP's coordinated multi-prong reveal

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Michael Grant identified as 'new' marketing person at American Pinball; suggests recent personnel change in marketing function

    medium · Described as 'new' in Pinball Players Podcast episode; appeared on first public discussion of Hot Wheels marketing

  • ?

    product_strategy: Hot Wheels originally planned for hands-on experience at Texas Pinball Festival but delayed due to COVID-19 shutdowns affecting Illinois/Chicago manufacturing

    high · Dennis noted original plan to showcase at TPF; coronavirus lockdowns prevented game building; games only recently started shipping

  • ?

    product_strategy: Hot Wheels explicitly positioned for location play/YouTube Kids integration unlike American Pinball's previous games targeting home collectors

    high · Joe Schober and Michael Grant statements on Pinball Players Podcast about screen integration and location strategy

  • ?

    business_signal: JJP shifting focus toward operator/location market penetration via pricing strategy and direct business development efforts

    high · Standard edition $1,000 price reduction for Wonka; Brett Abbas mentioned planned initiatives to boost JJP location presence

    • 2:29
    Fun times. Well, I, uh, I Overwatch League was back on. So I watched some of that yesterday, uh, tried to watch part of the Hot Wheels stream that Deadflip did. Uh, there were some connection issues or something early on, which is the one window I had to watch. So I couldn't see very much of it. And I also went and got a text message from a KDHE employee, state health department. Tony knows who they are. And they're like, oh, well, there's this federal money and we think you should submit a request for our work plan. I'm like, oh, okay. Well, if you think so, I mean, thank you for thinking of me. Like, yeah, the deadline's Monday. So Saturday was a work day because they needed a cost and technical proposal. So I'm like, okay, I guess I'm right. I guess That's my Saturday. And video games.
    3:18
    Instead of going back to any of my retail disc games that I had been working on, I had a couple of those. Are you familiar with the Shantay games? Oh, yeah. I know. I've played Shantay games. The genie games? Yeah. The fun. The half genie game? Yeah. I had never played them before. And I owned two of them. They must have been like Game with Gold deals or something on Xbox. Because I have Shantay and the Pirate's Curse. And I played through and beat that over the last week and enjoyed that. And I'm now working on Shantae Half-Genie Hero, which I guess is a remastering of that or a Kickstarter. I don't know. But anyway. That's the one I played. That's actually the very first game ever streamed on the EGP Twitch.
    4:03
    That's what I streamed for the middle of the 5 a.m. This is a test stream. Do not watch stream. While I was working on setting stuff up. back when I streamed games. I've thought about getting back and streaming video game. I have all the stuff. I can either stream console or I could stream PC. I just don't end up doing it. I'm very lazy. It's a lot of work and I've got a lot of stuff going on and it's hard to always separate.
    4:33
    I spend so much time playing games where I play the game and then I have to hit the pause button and then walk away for like 45 minutes to go do stuff. which isn't a good way to keep a stream live no no i had that uh several weeks ago i was actually going to stream pinball and i had i mean everything set up the computer was running with obs loaded all the cameras were configured and then i got a call after hours for work stuff and it's like 35 minutes later i was off the phone call but it was i'm like uh i better not you know we have to respect everyone's time. Yep. And speaking of time, it's time to go into the pinball segment. Unfortunately, I do need to open with some very tragic news. Steve Epstein, who is the founder and a former president of the Professional Amateur Pinball Association, commonly known as PAPA, he passed away. I read that actually this morning. So I don't know if it was Saturday or today, but it was very recent. Very unfortunate. I never met Steve Epstein. I've heard interviews with him before and stuff. He's very well known, especially on the competitive pitball side because of the work with Papa. But he also ran a very successful arcade for a long time in New York City. I believe it was called the Broadway Arcade. So that was very unfortunate. And in positive news, Gary Stern just had his 75th birthday. So congratulations to Gary Stern. Yay to Gary Stern. yeah so let's move on to the actual uh manufacturing discussions that we have slated for this episode we have a couple one uh that i want to open with first is uh jersey jack pinball they have a podcast they uh ken cromwell who i used to host over with the pinball show with he works for jersey jack pinball now and he is the host of their show i do have a link in the show notes to the jersey jack pinball podcast so people can go ahead and subscribe to that And the first episode came out this last week, and it was an interview with Brett Abbas. And I did not recognize the name Brett Abbas. Nor do I. But I probably should have because it turns out he is an owner of Jersey Jack Pinball, one of the investors who came in, I think, around the time of The Hobbit. And so they went through – Ken and Brett went through a number of points. And I won't go through all of them. People should go and listen to the podcast to experience all of them. But there were a few things that I thought would be interesting for us to go ahead and discuss. So the first thing is regarding profitability.
    7:05
    So Brett, I thought, in a fairly transparent fashion, touched on the, you know, there's been a lot of discussion that Jersey Jackpinball doesn't make any money, that they've been losing money. And he said that for well over a year at this point, they're breaking even. And they see the path to profitability. So to me, it's like Brett was saying, they were losing money. The investors came in. It sounds like now that they've said well over a year, so we're talking basically around the time that Wonka came out.
    7:39
    They established the ability to have their revenue match their expenses. So they're stable. They're financially stable. So I thought that was interesting because, I mean, obviously, it's a private company we've never really known. but he didn't just go and say, oh yeah, we make money.
    7:56
    Interesting. That's deeper than I would have expected someone to go into that actually. And I do find it interesting that it seems like about the time they started making these standard editions, they suddenly were able to break even. Yeah, because the, I mean, they've had a standard edition for, I don't want to say forever because I don't remember what they did with Woz. But it was the least popular model. Jack Guarneri, the founder of JJP, he, I think on several podcasts that I listened to, pointed out that the rarest model on many of their games, I think all of their games where there was a standard, was the standard. And it was because it was really expensive. And I think for about $1,000 more, you could move up to the LE model, which had a lot more bling in it. Yeah. So for a lot of people, it's like, why wouldn't you do this? Because you get all the better glass and all of that. But with Wonka, they took a mech out, which that was a big change. All their games had always been mechanically identical. So they took that Wonka Vader out, but they knocked the price down on the standards by another $1,000 versus what the standard was with Pirates. I believe at the time they indicated that was done because of a desire to try and penetrate the operator market more. And I mean, I don't know if they've seen a dramatic increase in the operator market, but I bet you it got them a dramatic increase in sales just because that I mean, a thousand dollars is huge. That makes a game so much more affordable. We're not we're not all made of money. yeah no I definitely think it would have had a large effect on their bottom line I'm sure their sales went up noticeably I could be completely wrong it just seems obvious to me that much of a price drop it would seem to be one that a lot of people would grab especially considering in that specific one the Walk of Vader's nothing massively different. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like a carryover feature, I think, between games, ideally, is how it's structured. I don't remember all that well. I've never played a version with the Wonkavator.
    10:14
    In terms of the operator thing that I mentioned, Brett did touch on that they are looking for more market penetration when it comes to location pinball. And so they're planning, they as a company, or planning to do some things to boost JJP's presence in the location play. I don't think he touched on what those plans will be, but we'll have to just wait and see what ends up showing up with that. But tied in, I think, very well with the strategy where I always felt JJP, they would mention operators, but it always felt to me everything they did was, like their entire company was only really focused on homeowners. And while that has become a huge share of the market, it's not the only share of the market. And Stern Pinball knows that, which is why they, whenever I, well, I know they sell a lot of pro models to homeowners. They really argue that the value of their perspective when they make a pro model is how will this do on a location?
    11:10
    And so I think it's very healthy to see that Jersey Jack is looking to boost their capabilities on the location front. Brett did mention that the factory is complete. They did their move. The manufacturing used to be done over in New Jersey, and now they've moved the factory over into the Chicago area where their design teams were residing, which I think I never understood why they were in two separate faraway states. So I think this makes sense.
    11:37
    No, yeah, no. It makes no sense to have your business split up like that for this type of business. Mm-hmm. And so anyway, those were the main points I wanted to mention. from the I do. There's a lot of other other things that Brett touches on. But those are the main items I wanted to mention from the from the interview itself. So we have one other manufacturing topic in pinball that we will now pivot to. And that is Hot Wheels. It's the new game from American pinball. It's not the newest game in the sense that we actually talked about Hot Wheels back when they revealed it at a show in New Orleans. And, you know, there were all the expectations that you and I were going to be able to play it at Texas Pinball Festival. That was the plan to get it in front of a lot of pinheads. And obviously, thanks to coronavirus, that didn't happen. So things have been fairly quiet since then because all of the stay-at-home orders that impacted Illinois and the Chicago area meant they weren't able to actually be in the process of building games. But now they are. And so those games have started to go out. And I saw a number of things happened just this last Friday. Saw the announcement that Jack Danger with Deadflip was going to live stream the game on Saturday. I did go. Did you see the stream? I did not. Okay. I went to the stream at the start time and I guess they were having internet connectivity issues and they got worked out eventually, but I couldn't hang around just waiting for the internet to work. So I left the stream. I came back about an hour later, but I could only stick around for about five minutes. So I saw a little bit of it, but not enough to speak with any sort of knowledge. I did also see that straight down the middle dropped a couple of videos. I have links to them in the show notes, incidentally, for those that want to see them. Promoting the game, they had one that was sort of, it was billed as an unboxing video. And that's, it's one that it opens with this really, and I'm sure they understand, I'm sure Zach and Greg know, hokey green screen effect where they're like in a vehicle, like a real vehicle on a Hot Wheel track. It's really weird, really goofy. And then they also had a first impressions video, and those dropped on Friday.
    13:48
    And so I don't know if you've had a chance to see those videos or not. I watched the unboxing video. Did you watch the first unboxing video that went away or the second unboxing video which got to stick around? I think it was the second unboxing video. I started the first one, but it dropped while work was going on and I had a webinar. And so I had to pause it. And then when I came back, it said that the video was now private. And then later I saw the video come back up again. And whatever was different, I never saw because I only got through the intro before I had to stop to do more work. So, okay. Well, I was going to say, what are your thoughts on Hot Wheels? But I can't imagine it's probably changed all that much from the footage we saw in New Orleans because it's the same game. Yeah, no. We haven't talked about it for a while, so I think it looks really flowy. Well, that's kind of what you would hope from a theme like that, honestly. I mean, maybe it's just me, but that's the whole thing with Hot Wheels is cars going around the racetracks or more likely cars flying off the end of the table and slamming into the floor because you're nine years old and that's what you do. Yeah, my cars didn't stay on the tracks. They never hit the loops right. I'd have the little clamps and clap them to the kitchen table and stuff. And, of course, I had no constructive ability. I still don't. So they usually – the car would wait on the track and the track would twist and the car would fall and they would die. You know, I was more into micromachines, quite frankly. Oh, man, micromachines. I had a whole bunch of micromachines. There you go, American Pinball. There was the license you should have gotten. You get the micromachine guy to do the call-outs. Let's talk a little bit about the marketing. So my take on Hot Wheels, and I heard an interview over with the Pinball Players podcast with Joe Schober, who we had him on the show last year? No, the year before. Oh, gosh. Time just kind of stretches. Last year was awful because both of us had job changes, and so we weren't securing guest hosts. But the year before, we did quite a few, and we didn't have him on to talk about his job. We just had him on to talk about pinball. But I think he spoke the most during the interview, and I think Michael, who is the name of the new marketing person – I think he's new with American Pinball. He was on the show as well. and they'd mentioned and I think it makes a lot of sense given the YouTube kids show that's what the screen has got integrated in what's doing for the modes and stuff that this pin unlike their other pins is very much positioned for location play and I think it's an interesting strategy and I like that they're trying it but this whole like whatever happened this Friday and Saturday on the marketing side of promoting the game i think you've probably seen some of it it was i mean it was to me it's been really weird like we mentioned the the i the straight down the middle video that was down and then up again and then did you see the post that was on their facebook page i did see that post and i went back this morning i can't find it now so i think maybe they deleted it it was weird it was like because we knew enough i mean we knew it was about straight down the middle because that's who had the video but it's it it promoted the the dead flip live stream which makes sense totally totally you need you need to promote your live stream i get it uh and then it mentions that video something it didn't name straight down the middle but it mentions the video you know being taken down and going back up and i assume it was a damage control post but it's not explaining anything clearly. And it's not naming the promotional work of Straight Down the Middle, which one of those two videos was up the entire time. So clearly at least one of them wasn't controversial. And then as of the time we're now recording this on Sunday, they don't have any links to either of those videos. So, but they've posted stuff since they came out. So I'm like, I don't really care about whatever is happening behind the scenes. What I do care about is this does not look like how you promote a pinball machine because they have all this content that they seem to have arranged. I mean, obviously, I just came off of recording the pinball show with Zach. So I know they were talking to him about doing promotional video. Why are they not promoting the promotional video? I get that it's great that Straight Down the Middle has promoted their own videos, but why hasn't American Pinball shared them? They've shared the VOD of the live stream, which Deadflip did for them. That makes sense. They've done that part. Like, am I off base here, Tony? It seems like they're dropping the ball on promotion. Why aren't they pushing on all fronts? I don't get it. I don't know. I think it's weird that they have all this promotion out there,
    19:03
    and they've got nothing except for the dead flip stuff shown. I guess they've got, I'm looking at their website right now. They've got a link that they put on on the 12th to the Pinball Players podcast where Shober was on and Michael Grant was on. and then they've got a link to the This Week in Penball post, and that's it. So these other videos, if it's not Jack Danger's stuff, it's not there, which is a really interesting choice to go. I mean, you're already looking at a company that has decided that the best way, apparently to promote their business is to first grab their competitors, business promoter and have him do it for them. And then to not post stuff that's out there and is known to be out there. Uh, they give us such a look at everything from decently well-known P it's not like it's like Bob sitting in a bar somewhere. It's from straight down the middle there, uh, decently well-known and have a pretty decent following, you would think videos like that would be a big part of it, especially considering the whole distributor tie-ins there. Yeah, I agree, Tony. It seems inconsistent, the messaging. And I get that they're not going to stay on top of everything, but some of this is coordinated. Like, I haven't checked with Jeff Patterson if they coordinated with This Week in Pinball. I know they coordinated with Zach and Greg. Like, that's why that's so weird. And I know they coordinated with Jack Danger and he's in there, which that makes sense. So I'm just, it's like, here's where I, and as you know, Tony, as our listeners know, I'm not a marketing guy. I never pretend to be.
    21:01
    But looking at it from a hobbyist perspective it like Hot Wheels like got its legs cut out from under it because of coronavirus It just I mean it really it really just sucked in terms of the timing Same thing happened to Heist with Multimorphic It's like, here it is. They showed it in New Orleans, yes, but that was not a big pinball show. And then they didn't get to do the big hands-on experience with all the pinheads in Texas. I think that's where turning to Jack with Deadflip makes a lot of sense. And yeah, I see your point about him being with his tie to Stern and then bringing it. But we've seen other manufacturers do it as well. Like Spooky does that with Jack. So it's not unheard of or anything to go ahead and rely on his capabilities because he is a professional streamer. I mean, that's his living is he does professional streaming. So I do see why they would turn to that for that sort of reveal. And I think that sort of reveal caters very much to a lot of home collectors who want to see a very in-depth period of time with gameplay. The promotional videos, for example, they go another angle, I feel. That's more of a tease. You've got all this edited video. It's shot in a certain way to make the game look good. and what what i'm hearkening back to as an example and maybe it's not the best example either but the one that comes to my mind is i remember with jersey jackpin ball which we were just talking about and willie wonka and i don't know if you recall tony but they had a really and what i thought was a really interesting strategy with the willie wonka reveal i remember they had the uh let's see special when lit did a podcast panel with like the leads on many of the categories working on the game. Then Buffalo Pinball did a live stream at, I don't remember what show they were at, but they did it at a show. And then straight down the middle did the promotional videos and those dropped before the live stream, but it was all the same day, if I remember correctly, all of this landed on the same day. And then there was the deep dive article through This Week in Pinball. It was like a four-prong attack on all on the same day,
    23:10
    shoving all this content out for people to consume. I thought, at least amongst people who are in the hobby, that that was a really, I thought it was an excellent idea. You had a podcast, so you had a way for people that consume things through audio to learn about the game. You had Twip, so you had a place for people to study the high-res fixtures and do the write-up, you know, read the write-up of the game, which I actually am really partial to reading articles to learn about games, so that really appeals to someone like me. You had the polished professional-style video from straight down the middle, Which, like, if you wanted to show, like, that sort of stuff is where you go to show the game in the best light possible. Because live is too risky. You've got all of these other factors that are going into play. But you also have the live stream because that's where you get to experience a lot of where people want to see. I want to see this game played. I don't want to see it polished and edited. I want to see a high-quality video of real people playing the game. So they had all of that. And I just thought it made a lot of sense. and my guess was that American Pinball was going for that with Hot Wheels and then they dropped the ball on it. It happened on separate days. They haven't fully promoted all of it and we have to bear in mind that they already let, I mean, it's not that they could really control it, I suppose, but they already let video go out months ago from New Orleans anyway. So this isn't a reveal. This game has been seen, known, and understood for months. so like none and i get a lot of that was due to coronavirus it just didn't play out the way they wanted to but i don't understand so that's my question to you tonight why do you think they are not just pushing out everything they possibly can because we're assuming there's a going to be an announcement of jjp's next game as imminent that's that's at least a suspicion and now turtles is stealing all the teenage mutant ninja turtles from stern is stealing all the oxygen in the room and this is this has to compete with all that and it's all and unfortunately the hype train initially came through the station months ago when the video first leaked out at uh at new orleans so i i don't get it like what's the strategy what do you why do you think they're doing it this way i don't think they have a strategy i mean okay so it's not just me it's not just me Or if they have a strategy, they decided to change it midway into the process for some reason.
    25:37
    Either they changed their plan and it didn't get completely moved everywhere, or somebody in the chain decided they wanted to do things differently. But that's it. There's either no actual strategy or they completely screwed up their strategy. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if this is all like coronavirus complications or what. And it's not that they can't salvage. They can always start taking some of this content and pushing it out themselves. I mean, they've done it. They're like partway there. I just I don't understand. It just seems weird. And that's saying aside all the people can listen to the pinball show. They want to hear. Zach will go into like some of the behind the scenes stuff on that show regarding what happened with his communications with American Pinball. because he did them a solid by doing a promo video for them. So I just think it's really weird that they don't seem to be using it, at least not yet. Yeah. But they've used some other stuff. It's like they're doing a half-hearted effort. It's just weird to me. Yeah, and that's the fact that it seems like the only stuff that got cut out is Zach's stuff makes you wonder if there's something more going on in the background. period yeah i mean now that's uh because i didn't realize until you pointed out earlier that the twip deep dive was shared as well so because i wasn't sure if it was if it had been or had not of course that was several days ago that's probably why i didn't remember but anyway well yeah i i don't know but i i question it i question that this is the effective way to do it and that's not even going you know sometime i'd like us to get a guest on who's better at marketing than i am just to talk about broadly the idea of how do you how should you promote pinball as a company because i get like i get the idea that stern has where they turn to ign for their very first reveal stuff right that's targeting people who aren't currently pinball people and isn't that the ultimate goal most of this other stuff that happens is for pinball people but that pool is limited. And I'm not sure most of these prongs of these efforts that companies do actually breach that, penetrate that bubble in a meaningful way that results in sales. And maybe there's not a way to do that. But I think there probably is. But me not being a marketing person, I don't know the best way to accomplish that. Yeah, I think that might be one of those things that kind of like the IGN reveal, they might want to, when they have the right license, find an appropriate very, very large non-standard pinball venue to do the big releases or to pick a very high-end streamer to do the release. because I know there's plenty of streamers that enjoy or can play pinball but are not pinball streamers. They do other stuff. They just also enjoy pinball. If you could find the right one of those to do the release, you're suddenly looking at somebody who the second they start streaming, their chat goes into subscriber-only slow mode because they've got 50,000 continuous views. that's the kind of target you need to be looking at. Yeah, I was just the other day thinking, just imagine what would have happened with, it doesn't matter, the game doesn't matter, but just imagine one of these pinball manufacturers was to go to Tim the Tatman and say, hey, would you stream this? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if Tim's into pinball or not, but someone of that level would be like, sure, dude, no problem. I mean, I have an audience and I know how to stream. I mean, because it gets to a group that doesn't normally see it, and the volume. I think a lot of pinball people, you know, a lot of people in pinball stream, and you'll go, like, if I go on EGP, I get excited when I have more than 10 viewers. Like, well, as excited as I get. I don't, I guess I don't. I'm fairly flat emotionally anyway, but that's as close as it gets. It's what you consider it's excited for you. Well, and that's the thing. is like if you go if you go on to dead flip and he's pulling like 150 people and that's like the biggest uh in terms of just like for a regular old right quote unquote regular old stream yeah he's i think easily the largest isn't he is the most i know i would say i would say so yeah easily but the thing is is that i i literally watch videos by a guy who plays submarine games and that's it. And he consistently has between three and 500 viewers. And he only ever plays one type of game. And that's the only thing he does. And then I'll go into somebody else who's much more without even being considered one of the big streamers, just, you know, thousand viewers playing a game playing, you know, like World of Tanks with like 500 viewers or Cold Blooders with 500 viewers. And then they get into the more popular games and, you know, they'll be playing Zelda with a thousand. It's just. Yeah, no, it's, I, we had someone reach out to us, as you know, on our Eclectic Gamers Facebook page. And they were asking, apparently because I speak too fast, they thought I had referenced a streamer who used to play professional Overwatch named Sigel. But what I had said was Seagull, like the bird, Seagull. and so I sent him a link to Seagull's Twitch page because Seagull streams a number of shooters. He still does Overwatch, but he also does like Apex Legends and stuff. And I just glanced at his number of followers. It's a million. Yeah. A million. So imagine getting a Seagull and saying, hey, Seagull, would you be willing to play a game of pinball if we set it up for you? Yeah. Would you just be you? I mean, and that's the thing. And this is about expanding the audience of pinball. That's why I'm mentioning names that we don't know in pinball. But these are, like, if your plan is to lean into Twitch, that's where it is. Right. Like, just out of curiosity, I pulled up Twitch, and I'm looking at my followed channels, just who is active right now. ItMeJP primarily does D&D stuff. He's in Just Chatting right now. 5.2 thousand viewers Admiral Butheroo playing Terraria he plays Terraria and Minecraft and Satisfactory and games like that he plays some other stuff too but those are the big ones I watch when he's there right now he's playing Terraria 4.4 thousand viewers Quickie Baby who is I would say the most well known and best of the world of tanks streamers 1.8 thousand viewers playing Worlds of Tanks right now. He's been playing Worlds of Tanks for a decade or more. He was one of the first guys I ever followed on Twitch.
    33:00
    I mean, heck, reruns of Bob Ross has 1.3 thousand viewers right now. Well, it is Bob Ross. That's sort of where, and again, this is just us pie-in-the-sky speculating. I might reach out to someone, Tony, if you're good with it to see about bringing someone on to who knows the stuff better i can explore yeah no i think that i think that'd be uh because i'm not even sure like twitch is really where one's mind should be going for because the end game is to sell pinball machines i don't even know if that's really the right even the right direction i should be thinking for expanding the audience that maybe it should be talking about the the ign approach or something with youtube or I don't know. I don't know the answer. I think with the increase of, I mean, right now the COVID's kind of killed it, but with the increase in barcades, you're going to be seeing more and more people playing in locations rather than at home of the kind of target audience you want. Because location plays where people fall in love with pinball. Then they become home users. Somebody doesn't just go, I've never played pinball before. I think I'm going to go buy a $10,000 pinball machine and see if I like it. Well, maybe. Well, some people, but I'm going to say that is the exception, not the rule. I'm looking at the pinball on Twitch right now. There are currently five viewers total.
    34:27
    Yeah, five sounds bad. Well, anyway, but that's Hot Wheels. So I thought we should touch on that because that was the other big pinball news. So before we go into video games, let's do Build-A-Bank. Episode 116, we did Build-A-Bank. So I had a week of voting. It was much closer this time. Up until like the last day. Up until about the last 24 hours, that's true. And so for those that don't remember, Tony's picks were The Addams Family, Roadshow, Corvette, Embryon, CSI, Centigrade 37. And my picks were ACDC, Alien, Space Shuttle, Terminator 3, Sinbad, and Apollo. And I did win 56% to 44%. Somehow with a non-functional doorstop is one of your choices. Hey, it's a hit classic. It hits the floor as it doesn't work. I had that one. All right. Based off of feedback to people who contacted me, your strongest thing that I heard when they would mention your bank, and a lot of them did, because, of course, when I saw people voting for you, sometimes I privately call them out and say, why are you supporting Tony? Do you not like me? And then none of them changed their vote. They just defend themselves. I thought we were friends, man. Why are you voting for Tony? Yeah, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's like, what are you doing? The biggest thing I heard on your behalf was Corvette, which in my defense, I couldn't pick because you got first pick that cycle.
    36:13
    So Corvette was seen as one of the strongest picks that you went with. and then in my case there were some people who liked that i picked alien they thought it was like a gutsy pick it's like yeah great that's what i was going for was gutsy um though generally that was my most criticized selection and most of the time when people criticized it they felt that i should have gone with tales from the crypt which of course was difficult for me because i don't have any memory of ever playing it right but i did have someone who told me if i had picked monsters they would have auto disqualified me talk about a burn yeah think about losing just because of one game yeah no i know i wow where what what's that like i i wouldn't oh wait so for those that don't know we're going to now play build a bank again for episode 117 i've already compiled the list of games from the latest pin side uh rankings uh and we're moving up 10 in each grouping so these are groups of 10 games. I'm going to read them out. I'm going to throw them in the randomizer and the four top ones that are picked in the randomizer are going to be the actual ones that Tony and I may pick from. And we will trade off back and forth in terms of who picks first and who picks second. And I'll pick first this time on the first bank because you picked first on the last time. So the first set range is going to be the Pinside Top 100s 21st through 30th. And the game choices initially, before going through the randomizer, are Batman 66, Wizard of Oz, The Walking Dead, Theater of Magic, Tron Legacy, The Simpsons Pinball Party, Scared Stiff, The Big Lebowski, Whitewater, and Circus Voltaire. Interesting. And I believe you and I have both played every single one of those games except The Big Lebowski. So I'm running this through the randomizer. And the games we get to pick from are The Big Lebowski, Theater of Magic, The Simpsons Pinball Party, and Wizard of Oz. And I get to pick first. This is somewhat unfortunate because, okay, I've not played The Big Lebowski. And I'm not a huge fan of any of the other ones that are now chosen. Whereas all the other ones on the list, I like OK or like a lot. I own Walking Dead, so why can't it be on the list?
    38:44
    So I will go with Theater of Magic. And the reason is the layout actually is really good. So if we were only talking layout, it might be the best shooting game that John Papaduke came up with.
    39:05
    And people who have listened to the show a lot know, well, Dennis, don't you always say that World Cup Soccer is John Papaduke's best game? And I do. And the reason I do is because I think it's got the best rule set. I don't think it's the best layout, though, but I think it's got a good rule set. And my second favorite game used to be my favorite, which was Tales of the Arabian Nights, which I like the theme of, and the ball does interesting things, but the rules there also aren't that great.
    39:30
    And the layout at certain points, like some of those ramps are frustrating to hit. But Theater of Magic, that is not a frustrating shooter, that you turn around the cube, the chest, the trunk, I guess it's called the trunk. That's a fun shot. The trunk shot's fun. It's easy, but it's fun. Skill shot thing works. It's got a nice orbit. The rules are unfortunate because it is orbit all day, but the game looks good. It's got a great deal of flow. And so if you're going to have a high flow game, you could do a lot worse than Theater of Magic. And I personally think Simpsons is clunky and Wizard of Oz is clunky too. So I'm going with Theater.
    40:08
    That's not a bad choice. And I'm going to – first things first, I didn't get it written down quick enough. What was the fourth one?
    40:14
    The fourth one was Wizard of Oz. Oh, that's, all right. Well, that doesn't change anything. I 100% am going to go with, well, I've not played Big Lebowski, so I'm going to take it straight out of the list. I'm going to go with Simpsons because, well, A, you took theater, which is one that I would have been very considered. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I like it more than was. the fight there is with Simpsons and while Simpsons can be enjoyable it can be very frustrating at times also so that all it's one of those things that like a lot of games for me it's one of those if I'm hot I'm hot I've had games on Simpsons where I've beaten very good players and I've managed to get everything to work just right and I've had games on Simpsons where I couldn't score anything or I felt like I was just batting things around which is more about me as a player I believe than it does me as than the game itself but with a combination of what would be considered a pretty classic theme I think when it comes to the licensed branding I'm going to say that's the one I'm going with okay out of the remaining three that's what I would have picked too.
    41:43
    I cannot fault your logic. I couldn't go with Big Lebowski having not played it. It actually looks like a pretty good shooter. Right, but I've not played it and even if I had played it, the baggage of Big Lebowski would have made it hard anyway. Yeah, you would open yourself up to also all these it's just a brick arguments. Right. Except it sells for even more than Alien does. Right. Because that game does break a lot. Yeah. Okay well we going to move to the next bank and this time you will get to pick first This is the 71st through the 80th game in the top list and here are the initial ten Stargazer Houdini Flash Gordon The Beatles It was tagged specifically as the Gold Edition, which is the only one we've played. So I'm noting it. But if you wanted to argue a different Beatles, I wouldn't object. If it even ends up being in the four that get selected. Taxi, Family Guy, Champion Pub, Quicksilver, and 8-Ball Deluxe. That's a very interesting list That is an interesting list I like a number of these games Of course I liked a number of the games in the last set And none of them were the top four So let's find out Randomize.org Says the games we get to pick from Are Flash Gordon Stargazer Houdini And the Beatles Wow That is an interesting combination I'm sure you've got a solid guess where I'm going And I'm probably going to be making For the Game picking The voters I'm probably going to be going wrong On this one But I'm going to go with Flash Gordon And the reason Why is I consider Flash Gordon to be one of those Massively brutal Fun games It's a game that I really like in tournament play Because I've seen even the best players lose on Flash Gordon. Flash Gordon is one of those games that if you're picking games in a tournament and you're behind, it's like, hmm, they're the better player. I'm going with Flash Gordon because it gives me more of a chance. And, yeah, no, I'm going to go with Flash Gordon. I enjoy that game quite a lot. Okay. I actually am a big fan of Flash Gordon as well. It's not a, and I, I did think I had two games that I thought you were going to go with either Flash Gordon or Beatles. Oh, you were wrong.
    44:22
    Was it going to be Stargazer? Yeah. Okay. Cause there's no way it was going to be Houdini. No. Okay. I'm going to go with the Beatles.
    44:31
    So, and the reason is that it is an eighties level, brutal layout style game, but perfected. The Beatles is better than Sea Witch and the game that it's basically modeled off of in every way. It's better art. It's better music. It's better rules. It's better flow.
    44:53
    It's a winner on all fronts. The only problem with The Beatles is that it's too expensive for most people, myself included. But it's brutal and it's a really fun game and if you want a good single level experience, it's one of the best ones out there. So if they'd only had a pro model, I think that game could have done amazing things for Stern. But regardless, I've played it a number of times. I think it's an excellent game, and so I'm more than happy to take it for this bank set. There's nothing wrong with Beatles. You're right. It's a fun game. I liked our options on that. They were all good. I mean, when the weakest option was Houdini, which, to be fair, is a pretty weak option, but that wasn't bad because normally we get, like, one good game and three really cruddy games. And all the Stern Electronics people are going to be complaining that neither of us took Stargazer. It was close. It was so close, but you know what? I enjoy playing Flash Gordon more. I do, too. I do. All right. Our next set is actually the 121st through the 130th game. So that list is Mustang, Royal Rumble WWF, GoldenEye, Mousin' Around, Jackbot, Bride of Pinbot 2.0, Catacomb, Spirit, Star Wars, the Data East version, and the original Black Knight.
    46:26
    So run that through the randomizer. Interesting list again. Yep. Our choices are Bride of Pinbot 2.0, Jackbot, Mousing Around, and Mustang.
    46:42
    I go first this time, and I will go with Mustang. I figured you would. Yeah. I really like Mustang a lot. Other than the theme does nothing for me. I think the layout's really fun. And for me, and maybe it was just the version I've, I've, our versions I've played, but I've played more than one, but Mustang, like next to F-14 is like the fastest game of throwing the ball back at me and destroying me. You know, Flash Gordon is really, really brutal, but it's not brutal because it's super fast. It's just every shot on it's dangerous. Mustang is just like, here are these drops, the fuel targets, you need them. They're all going to kill you. Have fun with that. here's the ramp shot here's the scoop that doesn't kick it out as fast as TNA kicks it out but it's just like it fires it towards the middle at the flippers and it's like it's all weird but I think the rules are really good I think the dots are fun on it the layout I just really enjoy and it's just I don't know if I'd say necessarily I think the game's a little underrated It's not, I mean, I understand, I'm a bit surprised it's this low down on the list. That is a surprise. So, and what I do, I mean, I'm a big Pinbot fan. I've played Jackbot a few times, but I never really got into it. So I'm sort of going to pass on that one. Mousing around, I actually don't care for. And Bride of Pinbot, I've only played a couple of times. But anyway, Mustang, I really enjoy. So that's actually, yes, it was an easy pick for me because it's the one I have the most fun with by far. That makes sense. I am going to go with Jackbot.
    48:26
    Because I think Jackbot is the best of the bot games. Pinbot, Pinbot, Pinbot. I understand. Pinbot. And as much as I enjoy Pinbot, I think Jackbot is the one I enjoy slightly more. I'm actually not a big fan of Bride.
    48:45
    And I don't like Mousing Around at all. people will vote against me just because I don't like Mousing Around, but I don't like Mousing Around at all. They won't because I think I mentioned I didn't care for it either.
    48:57
    No, I don't. I know some people think that layout is awesome. I do not like that layout. One of my problems with Bride of Pinbot 2.0 is it's definitely made improvements, but it does not because it can't fix that layout of Bride of Pinbot. It's not a great layout. No.
    49:15
    Not a hard one. Okay. Not a hard one at all. All right. Well, the next set, and you'll be able to pick first on this one, we're going to be first breaking down our 171st through 180th games before we let the randomizer decide. So in that range, we've got Nineball, Harlem Globetrotters On Tour, Alien Star, Defender, Party Zone, Pharaoh, Starship Troopers, Doctor Dude Laser Q and Meteor there are some solid games in this list yes but there is some crap in this list so you know we're going to get all the crap we're going to get nothing but the dross on this one we might okay randomizer has run our choices will be Party Zone Alien Star Starship Troopers and Harlem Globetrotters hmm okay We did not do as bad as I feared we would with that randomizer. And you get to go first this time. Party Zone, Alien Star.
    50:22
    Starship Troopers and Harlem Globetrotters. And I think. I'm going to go with. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say I wasn't. At first I was going to say I think you've played all four of these and then I wasn't sure. I'm not positive on Alien Star. I might have. but if I did it was a I played it at Texas thing or at somewhere something like that right right hmm you know I'm actually going to go with Party Zone on this one I enjoy that whole run of games I always have the Party Zone and Dr. Dude and the third one that I can't remember the name of all of a sudden. I never remember that one.
    51:14
    But they're all games. They've all been at 403 Club, and I've enjoyed all of them, and I've played them multiple times at conventions and elsewhere.
    51:24
    But I think that's the one that'll be, yeah, that one's enjoyable. I enjoy it. I'm going to go with there. I will go with Alien Star.
    51:35
    Now, this game was at the 2018 Kansas City Pinball Championship. it was in the free play area. And that's where I thought, yeah, I didn't remember you actually getting to play any games there. So I actually got to spend some time on it.
    51:48
    That game is awesome. Alien Star is easily the best game that Milestar ever put out. Granted, they were only doing Gottlieb for a year. So that's not saying a lot. But the layout's really fun. It's one of those games where you do the thing, but the thing is a lot of fun. So you're trying to build up the multiplier. It's got the spinner shot. It's just, the sounds are cool. It's got that whole mid-'80s vibe. It's a hard game, too. So I just, yeah. It's a great competitive game. And so is Harlem Globetrotters. But if I were to pick between Alien Star and Harlem Globetrotters, I would actually take Alien Star. I think it's more fun.
    52:29
    Yeah, I have played Alien Star. I'm looking at pictures of it now. Oh, the art in the art is awesome. Yeah. It's weird. It's like, I am a future Tron-esque samurai. Don't come at me, bro. Yeah. Okay, so next is the 221st through 230th game. A.K.A. the Call Up IPBB Bank. You might know a number of these. In fact, the very top one apparently got pushed down because we did the prior 10 on the last game because this one looks familiar, CSI. Oh, hey. So it's back because it's apparently been driven down the list. CSI's back. Yeah, the other games in the initial selection are Countdown, Elektra, Sharky's Shootout, Mars God of War, Godzilla, Freddy A. Nightmare on Elm Street, Monday Night Football, and Evil Knievel. I've played almost all of these. So let me click the – and I'll go first this time. Let me click the randomizer. Of course, Sharky's did not make it into the list. So I won't be picking that. Our choices are Freddy, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Monday Night Football, Godzilla, and Electra. And I will go with Godzilla. Of course you are. I'm going with Godzilla, Tony. Because it's actually a really fun game. I don't have a ton of time on it. So I have to – I've only played it at shows. So I have to be upfront about that. But the thing is, I don't recall if I've ever played Elektra. I know I've never played A Nightmare on Elm Street. And I have played Monday Night Football, but also only at shows. So I don't know if I put more time on Godzilla or not. But basically, so I have to go off of what I know of the games. And the thing with Godzilla is I just think that the layout is really good. You've got the ramp shot over on the right. aesthetically it's off i get it it's off a terrible movie but this might be sega's best game that they did it shoots really well uh it's uh it's a balser design i mean i don't know maybe i probably bring baywatch a little bit above it from what limited experience i have but but pretty good or and a did code on it i think the rules make sense uh so saying aside that the theme is terrible uh yeah it's got yeah it's a sort of a fan layout game but i think it it works for what it wants to be so that's what i'm going with i mean come on we're in the 221st 230th here yeah give me a give me a little bit you gotta go with what you can uh so tony now with what you can go with what's your choice going to be because i know i perhaps didn't leave you the best options. I am going to be 100% honest. I have played all of these games. I have played Electra. I looked it up. I recognized the Backglass. That's literally all I remember.
    55:43
    I recognized the game. Yeah, I know what it looks like because it's a class of 81 game, but it's like the least popular one. Right. I recognize this game. I'm sure I've played it, But honestly, the only one of these that has stands out in my head other than Godzilla is Freddy. So I'm going to go with Freddy.
    56:06
    And while I remember I didn't get much gameplay on it, I remember the one I played was amazing. It was amazingly well put together and restored. It looked beautiful. It was a well cared for, well loved machine I know some people really like it One of the best horror themed games Like true horror themed games That was not done in a campy way But yeah I have no memory of playing it Alright Our last is the EM Bank And you will get to pick first this time We'll be going through pens size 21st through 30th Now this one You'll probably want to fire up your IPDB Already have it Alright good, mine's up too All right. The initial 10 games that Random.org will consider are Bazaar. I think that got pushed down because I think we had that as a possibility last time. Starjet, Hocus Pocus, Skyline, Crosstown, Melody, GG, Little Joe, Abracadabra, and Skyrocket. Click the randomized.
    57:23
    Our options are Little Joe, Skyline, Crosstown, and Bazaar. Like a marketplace Bazaar. Yeah, we had Bazaar in one. Yeah, it must have been pushed down again. Not that, yeah, like I think our first one.
    57:42
    Yeah, or no, last one. Or last one. Last time. Yeah, it was in the top 20 last time. And it was in 21st this go, so, yeah, something else got moved up. So let's take a quick look.
    57:58
    Little Joe is... I have never seen this game before. Nope, I have no idea. Never seen it. Okay. Okay, Skyline, I have played Skyline. or at least I recognize Skyline.
    58:21
    So that's something. This is always the hardest section. Yeah, I mean, we get time on these games at shows sometimes, but... Hmm.
    58:37
    I guess normally I do share what the... Because sometimes these names are the same, so just so everyone is clear, Bazaar is the Bally from 1966.
    58:48
    Skyline is the Gottlieb from 1965. Crosstown is the Gottlieb from 1966. And Little Joe is the Bally from 1972. You mean Crosstown's not the 1935 flipperless cocktail table? No, unfortunately I don't include flipperless.
    59:07
    All right. I'm going to go with... Hmm. so basically the only ones I think I have any real knowledge of is Bizarre and Skyline I think I'm going to go with Bizarre okay yeah I think that's going to be the overall because we're definitely getting to the point where it's like I've never even heard of these games yeah Yeah, and it makes sense because Bizarre was what I was going to take. So I was hoping you weren't going to go with that.
    59:54
    All right, well, I'm going to end up going with Little Joe, even though I still don't have any understanding what this theme is. I don't know. I don't get it. It's like a guy in a top hat and a pirate and an admiral are staring at a bride wearing yellow. I don't understand. All right. It doesn't matter. It's probably not the right answer. But here's the thing. Here's how I came up with my choice. Skyline and Crosstown are both symmetrical games. So I don't think I'm going to enjoy how they play as much as an asymmetrical game. You took the better one. So I have no choice But to settle for Jim Patla's Little Jim And so that's what I did Settle And the playfield is covered in dice? Yeah that reminds me of Space Gambler The Playmatic game from 78 So maybe it's a gambling game I mean there's a guy on the playfield And his pockets are turned out like he lost all his money But the back glass The back glass Were they throwing dice? Why are they staring at this woman? Did she drop something? Why is there a pirate?
    61:06
    I mean, maybe he's a sailor, but he's got a pipe and he's got a parrot. That means he's a pirate, right? It's like the law, the law of the sea.
    61:15
    Who's Joe, and why is he little? I don't get it. I don't know. I kind of want the back story. Here's what it is.
    61:25
    I'm looking at it, and they're near the port. They were getting married. The guy in the top hat and the bride getting married, that's her father, the grumpy-looking guy with the top hat standing behind him. And the groom, he had his bachelor party the night before, and then he got caught up. There's the sea captain and the crew and all this, and they're getting ready to set to sea, and they're doing a little diceing, and he's still half drunk. So he decided to sit down and roll some dice and play some games. and she's angry because he's lost all the money, and now he's betting her, and it's just terrible. It's just terribly sad. It's so sad. Well, you're not completely off base as near as I can tell. That's hard to tell from the art. I have turned to the flyers. So the flyers indicate that Bally Little Joe and all his merry pals add up to top four-player collections. Okay. So he's playing with his buddies. We got that much. And the back flyer in a statement that perhaps has not aged the best, it says, baby needs a new mink coat. Get little Joe busy today.
    62:45
    So basically, I was pretty close. So he's trying to win money to keep her in the fine lifestyle that she expects. And that means minks. okay i'm not proud of this pick but i am sticking with it so it is what it is so for for those uh as a quick recap for people and of course i'll try and get this up probably today uh week-long poll like we normally do on the egp facebook page but so the options are for the 21st through 30th ranked game tony went with simpsons pinball party i went with theater of magic for the 71st through 80th game Tony went with Flash Gordon I went with the Beatles For the 121st through 130th game Tony went with Jackbot and I went with Mustang For the 171st through 180th game Tony went with Party Zone I went with Alien Star. For the 221st through 230th game, Tony went with Nightmare on Elm Street. I went with Godzilla. And with the EM 21st through 30th game, Tony went with Bizarre, and I, for whatever reason, went with Little Joe.
    63:57
    I'm sorry, dear. I need to get my money back. That's so terrible. Okay. Let's go on to the video game segment. I'm closing all these windows. I want to look at that game ever again.
    64:10
    Okay. Video games. There was the PS5 event. It had originally been slated for June 4th. It got pushed a week. We'll get into the hardware, because they finally gave us our first good look at the PS5. And the PS5 is an art piece.
    64:33
    It looks like an award for some show or some video game award thing or an art piece. I've seen a lot of people online saying it looks like a router. but they definitely went with a very kind of fancy,
    64:53
    something more than just the basic brick that's been what most of them have been for the last several years. There are two versions of it. One version has a Blu-ray player and the other version has no drive at all. it will be interesting to see the difference in price between the one with the drive and the one that is for downloadable content only there is no official word on price there was a leak from amazon in the uk that listed the price as 599 pounds which would be about 750 dollars but Amazon has retracted that and said they were just putting up a dummy listing and that the prices were just placeholders with everything else. So is it really going to be a 600-pound machine or was that just somebody throwing numbers in there? We're not going to know until they announce the prices. And like we've talked in the past, I'm pretty sure they're going to set on the price as long as they can between them and Xbox trying to make the other one blink first. Who do you think will blink first? I think PlayStation is going to have to blink first. I think Microsoft has enough backing that they can go out. I think Microsoft could sit down and go with, they can price lower and take a loss easier than Sony will be able to. because I know most of the numbers I've seen on the actual hardware itself is talking about just hardware costs and everything else is probably going to be in the $450 range, which means the $400 launch point that is where it's so common with a lot of newer things, newer consoles. I think it's $400 currently for the PlayStation Pro, the 4 Pro. They're not going to be able to hit. So if they're going to make any money off of it, it's going to have to be between at least five, probably more like six.
    67:02
    Okay. In addition to that, they made a bunch of game announcements. Yeah, that went over really well. I mean, that was one of the big criticisms of Microsoft's event they had about a month ago was it wasn't good game coverage. Right. And I think that's why Microsoft has another event coming up next month. Yeah, I think you're right. I think they're like, oops, okay. They have acknowledged they messed up. They did. Yeah. So we'll see what it ends up being next month. But the game announcements are pretty solid on PlayStation, depending upon what they can announce for Xbox. PlayStation's sitting in a really good spot. I'm just going to hit the big ones. There's a new Resident Evil coming out. that's supposed to be a direct sequel to Resident Evil 7. It's like Resident Evil Village.
    67:59
    Oh, okay. But people love Resident Evil. I don't know what to say. The only ones I've played have been the ones I played when we did co-op. I really liked 7. It might be my favorite.
    68:14
    We'll see how well this turns out then. In addition to that, they announced that there's going to be an enhanced and expanded version of Grand Theft Auto V coming out. And so the online portion is supposed to be free for all PS5 owners. What does that mean exactly? I'm not sure. I am impressed at how well they have managed to stretch Grand Theft Auto V. I mean, Grand Theft Auto V has been around for, what, eight years now? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And it still says, oh yeah, Grand Theft Auto 5 Oh, okay, that's fine The first What I felt was a really Big announcement for me Is the Spider-Man The new Spider-Man game This was big for a lot of people I really enjoyed the Previous Spider-Man game They put out That's actually the game that I got with my Playstation When I bought my Playstation because it was the one of the, it was a game that the game that came with it at the time when they were putting it out at the low price point they had at that time. And that game was a ton of fun. And the web swinging in that game was awesome. And this game is basically going to be a sequel that follows miles Morales because he was introduced in the storyline of the other game. You saw him some and his father and stuff. So this, that'll be fun. I'm looking forward to that There's a new Gran Turismo coming I don't know You know I have good memories of Gran Turismo 2 But At the same time I prefer more Arcade-y racing games To the Very Simulator-ish Gran Turismo series Yeah, I'm a little surprised that given the success Microsoft's found with Forza Horizon to complement Forza Motorsport, that there isn't like a Gran Turismo Horizon? It'd be a good idea. A lot of people prefer the slightly more arcadey and less, because that was one thing I remembered, and one of the things that kind of killed me on Gran Turismo is in Gran Turismo 2 you have to do all the special stuff to get your licenses to get better cars and better it just killed a lot the game for me because it got to the point where it's like this is a grind I'm not having fun anymore right yeah no and Mortal Sport is kind of like that too or at least it was when I played was like oh yeah you gotta win these races or do well enough and then you can move up to so you're not driving an escort anymore like real life right it's like yeah I'm driving my car yeah that's just what I wanted they've been they announced a new Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart I've never really played any of the Ratchet and Clank games. I've watched some of them speed run I've watched several of them speed run actually but I've never actually played any of them so it's not really a touchstone for me but I know it is for a lot of people. The Ratchet and Clank games are like what Mario games are for Nintendo people.
    71:30
    So I've heard Yeah I don't have a background with them. I have no background but I've talked to and read comments from a lot of people who are super excited about another Ratchet and Clank game.
    71:44
    Project Athia, which is a Square Enix game, but the trailer was basically one of those cinematic, look how pretty we can make stuff trailers, that didn't really show much or tell you anything about the game, but it looks like some lady with powers roaming some kind of like super post-apocalyptic looking world. It's not as post-apocalyptic looking as Horizon Zero Dawn was, but at the same time, it's like she's wearing like normal clothes and shoes and there's like a castle background and but it's mainly just in the woods and stuff. I don't know. Too early to tell, but it's Square Enix, and the stuff looked interesting.
    72:35
    There was a cat game. Stray, you're a cat. You play as a cat, apparently, in a world with no humans. It's all nothing but robots.
    72:46
    So, from the trailer, it was literally just the camera following a cat walking around and robots everywhere. And they were like the very human-looking robots. So I don't know what to expect from that game. I have no idea. But it could be interesting.
    73:05
    They also had, there was a game called Returnal. Developed by House Marquis. They made Rezogun for the PS4. Which was an arcade-y, side-scrolling shooter type thing.
    73:22
    But it's a very different game. It's like a, from the trailer, it's a Groundhog Day-esque horror game.
    73:32
    And yet another, there's a lot of horror games coming. I mean, between Resident Evil this and a couple of the other games. But basically, you're a spaceship pilot who crashed and are attacked by monsters and killed. And then you're back and you crash and you're attacked by monsters and killed. and from the trailer it looks like as you go through the game the world is changing in relation to you and in your changing in relation to the world like every time you die and then you come back and then you keep going then you die and you come back and i don't know it looked kind of interesting.
    74:14
    Following that up is Horizon Forbidden West. No one's interested in that. No one's interested in that game. At all.
    74:25
    It looked amazing. Of the games, that's one of the games that is going to sell the PlayStation. Horizon Zero Dawn was such a fun game and it was such a big hit that the sequel to it is going to be it's going to be amazing. And there's going to be people who buy PS5s just to play the next Horizon game. I'll be honest, the Horizon games could be turned into a book series or a movie series and would be quite enjoyable, I think. And maybe they're considering it. If only Sony had a movie production company. Then there was a Sackboy, which is Sackboy a Big Adventure, pardon me, which is just a platformer based around one of the characters from Little Big Planet. I've played Little Big Planet. I've not played it. I've seen people play it. I've watched people stream it, but I've not played it myself. But it's going to be a platformer that I'm sure will be done very well because it's a decent company and a well-known franchise. Ghostwire Tokyo we saw a teaser about it at E3 last year this time it's gameplay it has some gameplay footage and that was the trailer last year we saw that was like the guy wandering Tokyo and there were like weird like ghost things around and like that other people couldn't see but he could and there's some more gameplay And it's another one of those horror games that seems to be a pretty heavy hit in this go-round of the console release.
    76:17
    They announced Hitman 3. Ooh, I do like Hitman. It's Hitman. So, I mean, it's not going to do terrible. I'm sure even the worst of the Hitmans still did good and were still at least moderately fun. I mean, the trailer didn't have any BDSM nuns running around trying to kill you, so you know it's better than that hitman. They're remaking Demon's Souls.
    76:46
    I've seen a lot of excitement for this. I never played Demon's Souls. That was a PS3 game. Right, yeah, I'm guessing that's why they're doing it, just because it is older than everything else. And another game we saw a trailer for last year, Deathloop. Deathloop was the one with the assassins Where they were like killing each other Then the day would start over with yet another Groundhog's Day-esque thing The art looks awesome And the kind of whole aesthetic That game has going for it From the trailer looks really interesting And it's just interesting to me That there's another time loop game And there's so many Horror games But this game is made by Is from Bethesda and the makers of the Dishonored games and the Dishonored games are hugely popular. So it's got a solid backing and a solid pedigree.
    77:39
    So we'll see where this goes. We'll see how Xbox responds with their event next month. I'm assuming they're going to go real heavy on games since they didn't last time. And the big thing is it's going to be a question of how long until somebody breaks and gives a price. I don't know what Microsoft's plan is regarding this. It sounds like there's more stuff indicating that there is a Lockhart version of the console.
    78:09
    I'm not sure how they're going to handle that because it's supposed to be less powerful, not just missing a drive. Right.
    78:15
    But I think they need to be careful about not mixing up the messaging and confusing people. And Lockhart might not be something you want to promote. It might just be something you release after the main console comes out, the Series X. And I mean Yeah I'm curious about the I'm assuming their big event will really focus on Halo Which is supposed to be a launch title For their new console I don't know if they'll be able to compete with the volume of I mean Playstation No matter how they've struggled as a As a company Their first party lineup Has never been a weakness of theirs I mean some of this stuff is weird But some of this stuff is highly anticipated Like Horizon Forbidden West So it's going to be it's a tall order for Microsoft to and I don't know, I mean Microsoft really expanded their studio lineup but I don't know how many of them are going to be ready for launch right, and that's one thing, is not all of these titles are launch titles these titles are all slated to be for 21 at the latest but they're not all launch titles, also which is, kind of touches on pinball in addition to video games, Twitch has received a rash of DMCA takedown requests.
    79:38
    And it has been lashing back to games and video clips from as far back as early 2019. And it's been affecting pretty much everybody. but anybody who has music or sound in their streams have been getting hit. There's a lot of streamers that will play Spotify in the background or whatever while they're doing their streams. So they're all getting hit pretty hard.
    80:14
    And the same thing occurs with Pinball. And with Pinball, I'm sure it wouldn't surprise me if there haven't been some hits on music pins. Yeah, music pins I think would be the biggest risk on the pinball side. Also location play in bars with music playing in the background. Yeah. That stuff, yeah, the playing of music in the background. Honestly, I'm surprised. I guess for those that don't know, DMCA is short for the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which is a law I think from the late 90s that criminalized production and dissemination of tech devices and services, circum measures to control access on copyright works. So it's broadly, a lot of people just call it digital rights management.
    81:00
    So, yeah, I'm, so what's, why is there all of a sudden a crackdown? Because it's not like any of this is new behavior. No, none of it's new behavior. Twitch reported that they've actually received a huge influx of takedown requests from the various recording studios and rights owners.
    81:27
    It's not that they've made any big change or suddenly started doing something different. It's just that all these requests have started coming in.
    81:37
    The prevailing thought online is that it's probably one of those things that everybody was hitting YouTube and those various recording sites. But with Twitch, they weren't getting the same views from the lawyers and such until it became obvious and Twitch blew up so big during the lockdown where there was lots of stuff going on in Twitch. When there started being lots of talk about Twitch, suddenly all the places were like, well, they're using our music, let's nail it. that's the running assumption.
    82:19
    Uh, and it's going to be interesting to see how it affects things going forward with streamers. Honestly, it doesn't affect most of the streamers I do, uh, that I watch because I don't really like streamers who play a lot of music in the background. Okay. So it's not just me. I actually hate it. Yeah. Most of there's, there are streamers where that's their whole thing. They do curated music playlist for their night. Uh, but at the same time, it's, to me, it's annoying. And some streamers, they crank it up so loud. You can't hear the game. You can barely hear them talk. Yeah. And that's my issue with it. It's not that I, I don't have anything inherently against having background music, but like the balance between the, especially, especially the game. A lot of times they overpower the game with the music and it's like, well, but what if it's a song I don't like now I'm listening to the song. It doesn't fit with the game they're playing. It's just, I don't know It's never been a thing that I've cared for I've thought about putting on music When I stream pinball And I always think, it would annoy me So why would I do that to others And that's the same way, like I said I have some people that I've I like what they're watching Or what they're playing, and I like their stuff But I just can't stand the music I've had to switch from people Mostly if it's too loud If they've got it too loud, I'm like, no, I'm not here to listen to your radio station So we'll see This is something that has That YouTubers have been dealing with for years So it's nothing new or special So it's just going to be How does Twitch and how does the streaming community Respond to it Is going to be the interesting take on things Well I think we've reached the end of the show Yes I think so It's Been a pretty good one with a Lot of interesting stuff this time around Yeah we had news On both fronts always exciting so for those that love the excitement and want to reach out to us about it you can email eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com you can go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast as well we're on twitch, twitter and instagram as eclectic underscore gamers and we should be back in a couple weeks with hopefully more news to report yay news but until then I'm Dennis and I'm Tony goodbye