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Episode 2 - Juana Summers of NPR / Shane's Metallica Remastered LE

Nudgecast·podcast_episode·53m 43s·analyzed·Jan 6, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

NudgeCast ep 2: Shane's Metallica LE + Juana Summers on pinball, competition, and Bells and Chimes

Summary

NudgeCast Episode 2 features co-host Shane Told discussing his Metallica Remastered LE pinball machine and interviewing NPR host Juana Summers about her deep involvement in competitive pinball and the Bells and Chimes women's pinball community. The episode highlights pinball's role as both a skill-based hobby and a community-building force across diverse demographics.

Key Claims

  • Metallica Remastered LE is the first Stern game in a long time to go significantly above MSRP immediately upon release

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby discusses the game's market performance and notes machines selling for $17,000-$18,000 against MSRP

  • Juana Summers met the woman who married her and her husband through their pinball league

    high confidence · Juana Summers directly states this during interview about pinball's role in her life

  • The original Metallica pinball artwork by Dirty Donnie was poorly received by some collectors despite being iconic

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby and Shane Told both express dislike for the original artwork; Ian calls it 'trash' and 'eighth grade notebook drawings'

  • Juana Summers was a women's state rep for IFPA and served on the women's advisory board before leaving that position about a year ago

    high confidence · Juana Summers confirms this during her interview with Ian Jacoby

  • The new Metallica Remastered code includes a blackened wizard mode with the band in electric chairs and modes from recent albums like 72 Seasons and Hardwired

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby describes playing the new code and reaching the blackened wizard mode

  • Juana Summers started playing pinball competitively around 2014-2015 after seeing a league sign outside a bar in her Baltimore neighborhood

    high confidence · Juana Summers recounts her entry into pinball with her husband during interview

  • Bells and Chimes is a pinball community organization for women with chapters in multiple cities across the country

    high confidence · Juana Summers describes the organization during interview

  • Ian Jacoby has seven pinball machines in his collection and is out of space

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby states this during opening discussion with Shane Told

Notable Quotes

  • “I think the biggest thing that pinball has brought to my life is community. It's one of the ways that I've really made lifelong friendships. My husband and I met the woman who married us through our pinball league.”

    Juana Summers @ interview segment — Core statement about pinball's social value and personal impact

  • “For me, I think part of it is definitely a little bit of an escapist hobby for me. I love that I can just kind of zone out. Some of my favorite times are going to one of our local pinball places, popping on my headphones, listening to some music and just digging deep into a game.”

    Juana Summers @ interview segment — Describes therapeutic/escapist aspects of pinball play

  • “I hate the artwork. I never bought an original Metallica because it never felt like Metallica to me. The caricature art, I didn't really like it.”

    Ian Jacoby @ game room discussion — Explains why collector avoided original despite loving the game

  • “This is what a Metallica shirt from the 80s or 90s looked like. The artwork, everything about it. But they both look dope.”

    Ian Jacoby @ game room discussion — Explains aesthetic appeal of remastered art

  • “I'm definitely a lot more logical and orderly. It's like, trap it up, look for the right shot, try 50 million times to get it if I don't get it the first time.”

    Juana Summers @ interview segment — Describes methodical playing style and approach to competition

  • “I think that's why Nudge started, right, is for those things. The community that's built up.”

    Ian Jacoby @ interview segment — Statement about Nudge Magazine's founding mission

  • “Some of my favorite times are going to one of our local pinball places, popping on my headphones, listening to some music and just digging deep into a game.”

    Juana Summers @ interview segment — Personal ritual and therapeutic use of pinball

Entities

Ian JacobypersonShane ToldpersonJuana SummerspersonNudge MagazineorganizationNudgeCastproductMetallica Remastered LEgameBells and ChimesorganizationPin Baltimoreevent

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Metallica Remastered LE released by Stern; high market demand with immediate secondary market premiums of $17k-$18k vs MSRP

    high · Ian Jacoby states: 'somebody was able to buy a game for $13,000 and then resell it for $17,000 to $18,000 immediately' and notes 'this is the first time stern has had a game that has come out and gone for way above msrp immediately'

  • ?

    code_update: Metallica Remastered includes new blackened wizard mode with band in electric chairs; adds modes from 72 Seasons and Hardwired albums

    high · Ian Jacoby: 'I did get to the new wizard mode, the blackened wizard mode, which was cool. They have like the whole band in the electric chairs in the graphic...They have like the whole band is frying'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Remastered artwork (inspired by 80s/90s Metallica t-shirt aesthetic) resonates strongly with collectors who disliked original Dirty Donnie artwork

    high · Ian Jacoby: 'When this came out and I saw the artwork and I was like, this is it, man. This is what a Metallica shirt from the 80s or 90s looked like...But when this came out I saw the artwork...this is it man'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Metallica Remastered LE represents potential recovery for Metallica theme after original game was hindered by artwork criticism among some collectors

    high · Ian Jacoby explains he never bought original due to hating artwork, but immediately purchased remaster upon seeing new art; 'I always hated the artwork...when this came out and I saw the artwork...this is it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Bells and Chimes organization for women pinball players expanding across multiple cities; high-profile NPR journalist actively competitive

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.155

0:00
Need a pinball machine? Another pinball machine? Maybe some fat accessories like a topper or a shooter rod? Yes, you do. Hit up Jeff over at Mad Pinball for the best products and service, and use our promo code NudgeCast, and get a free exclusive t-shirt when you buy any game. And you also get free shipping on any new in-box stern. So many great games are out right now. Go pick one up. Hit up Jeff at MadPinball.com, and don't forget to tell them we sent you.
0:51
Hi guys, you're listening to episode 2 of NudgeCast, the official podcast of Nudge Magazine. That intro music you just heard was the song Wretched Lie by The Tubs. I really dig that band. As always, I'm Ian Jacoby, a.k.a. Doc Monday, the editor-in-chief and publisher of Nudge Magazine. And with me is my co-host, Shane Told, of the band Silverstein and the Lead Singer Syndrome podcast. Hey, Shane. What's up, dude? We're back. We're back. Episode two. We are, yeah. We're back. Episode one dropped yesterday. It just dropped. To use a phrase the kids are saying, yeah, it dropped. It dropped, and we got some feedback, and pretty good. People seem to dig it. That's a good, you know, yes, we're comfortable in our own skin, but we still want people to like us. No, absolutely. No, it was overwhelmingly positive to the point that I'm a little resentful that I didn't start a podcast sooner and was just relying on a magazine. It turns out a lot of effort for, you know, I should have just been talking. That's way easier. Easier than all the stuff you do. I look at Nudge and I thumb through the magazines and I just – the amount of work that must go into it, dude, just – there's so much more to that than this. No, no. Well, you're doing all the hard work. You're doing what I do for Nudge for this. You're doing all the nuts and bolts. But man, yeah, for me, it's just like I get to be an idiot. I press record and we get to talk pinball with really interesting, fun people. That's right. Yes, and we should maybe just talk about our guest this week. Kind of a big, important person in the world. You know, like, obviously, part of the vision for this show is not just to have, you know, all pinball-centric people. Like, we want to get into the other people that are playing pinball, such as NPR host Juana Summers. Yeah, which is crazy that she is like a diehard pinball fan and somebody who we barely were able to schedule for the podcast because whatever news is about to drop. And literally, as we were about to talk to her, they caught the dude, the CEO shooter guy. Yeah, Luigi Mangione. And we were just just caught it in the nick of time. That was the day we recorded this. So it is great to have her. And it's just cool that, you know, wherever you look, all people from all walks of life love this hobby. I mean, yeah. And she's just like such a cool person in general. And I think anyone who's kind of like followed her career like knows that she's just like a very genuine person. And I feel like that came across in the she's so serious about pinball, you know, like in a really good way, I think. And that's right. It's cool to see someone like that. Like she's a genuine nerd about pinball. And I think and I use that as like a huge compliment. We're all nerds, dude. Absolutely. No, you especially. But I was just like happy to count her in the crew with the rest of us. So, yeah, I just I thought it was really fun to talk to her. And yeah, you're right. It was just like a crazy day. How that ended ended up lining up. Absolutely bizarre. So. So do you think he did it?
Stern Pinball
company
Dirty Donnieperson
Jack Dangerperson
Mad Pinballcompany
IFPAorganization
Gina Colecchioperson
Brandon Smallzperson
Scott Ianperson
Silversteinorganization
The Tubsorganization
All Things Consideredproduct
Labyrinthgame
The Uncanny X-Mengame
Black Knight Sword of Ragegame

high · Juana Summers describes Bells and Chimes: 'Bells and Chimes is a pinball community for women. There are chapters in many cities across the country...goal is to build an inclusive and farming environment for all women'

  • ?

    content_signal: NudgeCast launched with strong reception; Episode 1 dropped with 'overwhelmingly positive' feedback; Episode 2 features NPR host as guest

    high · Ian Jacoby: 'Episode one dropped yesterday...we got some feedback, and pretty good. People seem to dig it...overwhelmingly positive'

  • $

    market_signal: Metallica Remastered LE represents rare recent instance of Stern game selling significantly above MSRP in secondary market

    high · Ian Jacoby: 'It's the first time stern has had a game that has come out and you know gone for way above msrp immediately...somebody was able to buy a game for $13,000 and then resell it for $17,000 to $18,000 immediately'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Metallica Remastered demonstrates improved thematic coherence through updated artwork aligned with band's historical merchandise aesthetic

    medium · Ian Jacoby: 'The artwork, everything about it...This is what a Metallica shirt from the 80s or 90s looked like...they nailed the art on this'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pin Baltimore and local Baltimore venues feature recent machine acquisitions including Labyrinth; Juana Summers actively engaged with local pinball bar/arcade scene

    medium · Juana Summers: 'we recently got a labyrinth at the bar, and I absolutely love that' and references playing machines at local venues

  • ?

    competitive_signal: IFPA women's advisory board structure; Juana Summers served as women's state rep and advisory board member (left position approximately 1 year prior)

    high · Juana Summers confirms: 'I'm a women's state rep. I was on the women's advisory board for the IFPA, but left that position about a year ago'

  • ?

    product_concern: Original Metallica pinball artwork (Dirty Donnie) criticized by some prominent collectors as misaligned with band aesthetic; described as 'eighth grade notebook drawings'

    high · Ian Jacoby: 'I just think it looks like like an eighth grade notebook kind of drawings' and Shane Told: 'I always hated the artwork...never bought an original Metallica because...I hated the artwork'

    • 4:04
    Yeah. Yes, I do. Is that the official? Yeah. I don't know. I just remember his lawyer being like, there's no evidence that he did this. I was like, okay. I don't know. Yeah.
    4:18
    You know, he went wrong going to a McDonald's for food. You know, you got to stay away from that stuff. It's bad for you. Yeah. I went down the whole rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and everything with this guy. And now I don't even. Because he's so good looking. I actually said that when he got caught. I was like they're gonna put him on t-shirts of high schoolers for like forever because he's like whether you like what he did or not I'm just saying he's like he's got one of those like Jim Morrison like you know Che like when you're a good-looking dissident it really matters like he's hot so like I think people are a hundred percent like that factors into this for sure if he was a guy who looked like me and did this like I think people would be like a little more like yikes but i you know this guy is like you know quite attractive so i think you're quite attractive ian don't don't sell yourself short i know but i'm not this is audio only and look you know we we aren't you don't know what has to see us but uh you're not bad no i'm not bad but i think a lot of my appeal is my personality and i think i'm not like no one's fooling anyone here like no one is luigi mangione levels of hot like you know he's smart apparently too he is obviously he's got a fucking bit of a screw loose he's a good be real no he's a good writer we i don't i keep thinking how we're gonna like relate this back to pinball which is like uh you know i'm sure there'll be a homebrew at some point we'll we'll see oh lord well i this is actually something so our usually right we're gonna feature a story or a person that is associated with nudge as sort of our our our intro story right to the to the main interview as part of this we want to get to know you and i think the best way to probably do that is to maybe talk about one of the games in your collection um are you are you down yeah yeah i'm down i have i currently have seven games and i'm pretty out of space i i unless i'm going to start putting them in my living room beside my bed or anything like that. It's just never a good look, especially when you're working on it. You've got a circuit board popping out, and people come over, and they're like, what the hell is going on with that? It's just a fuse, man. Chill. It's not a big deal, but people don't always get it. So I like to have my pinballs in my pinball room. Yeah, it's a cross between sort of a hoarder and a garage kind of vibe to it. So, yeah, it's not a great look when it spills over. to like common spaces for sure no no but my latest and greatest i guess kind of the crowning jewel of my collection are you willing to say that right now that is quite a yeah all right well it's the new new you know and it's kind of all the rage right now it's the first time stern has had a game that has come out and you know gone for way above msrp immediately and the i mean man is so high and That's the Metallica remastered LE, I should tell people. I'm sorry. It's a game we're talking about. And I managed to get one, so it's terrific. I'm just saying, this isn't Kaneda's podcast. We don't give a shit about MSRP on the Nudge podcast. At least I don't, because I play my shit on location for a dollar a play, like no matter what. So that's good for you, but I'm just saying, hey, brother, I represent the people on this shit. So going for above MSRP, that's like, canada's people that's not me so i well i'm i'm a i'm a card carrying member of canada's pinball podcast i'm a no i'm a whatever he i'm part of the canada club i guess i listen to i listen to his podcast i enjoy it for what he's trying to do and yeah he's maybe a little bit obsessed with all the prices of all the machines but i understand that's part of it for sure and the fact that somebody was able to buy a game for $13,000 and then resell it for $17,000 to $18,000 immediately, it hasn't happened in a little while. Absolutely. So it kind of makes you feel pretty good that you got one of these special games everybody wants. I agree with you. And let's refocus this because I do think the story of this game is like, who gives a shit about MSRP? But it looks beautiful. It plays really well. it seems like the new code is inventive and like riffs on what was good about the old one it's definitely like a long player it seems like but in like a cool way that people are into you're not bored uh playing it um so yeah i think it's like a huge success when there are a lot of questions about the pinball market we hear that a lot that this was like an unmitigated you know success for them. That's cool. Absolutely. I mean, I bet they wish they made more LEs, but hey, you know, it's okay. And the premium is great as well. I know you like both art packages. Do you prefer the LE? But to be fair, I actually have never seen a premium in person. Okay. So which one's the one where it's quite green? Is that the LE? That's the premium. Yeah, dude, that one looks great to me. I think it's so vibey and interesting. I hear what you're saying about it looking like Mount Rushmore, but yeah, I think it's – I don't know. I love that one. I would put either on my machine and be very happy. I say that as a man who's like, I will never own this game. I definitely will never own this game because it's like – if it's going for over MSRP, it's like – I'm the guy looking for the like, hey, brother, can you like – Can I buy your really beat-up Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro for like $5,000 someday? You know, like that's... That's a great game. I would love to have a Sword of Rage. Yeah. Great game. Yeah. You know what's funny about Black Knight Sword of Rage? I guess we're kind of getting off track a little bit. I know. But I had played that game quite a bit on location.
    10:29
    And I had... But it's always been turned down, quiet. And I was able to play it recently. we have a furniture store in Vegas that sells pinball machines and it's really weird but they have like six or seven at any given time that rules so I'll go in there and pretend that I'm like in the market for something and I'll end up just playing pinball for like an hour yeah and they have a Black Knight sort of rage in there and man are those the callouts are great the music is so good like I love the way that they've used like the Black Knight 2000 repurpose the music redone it again and then they've turned it into kind of like a metal death metal like ish black metal kind of thing it's so rad i mean that game is criminally underrated this is how we tie it back into metallica because it does feel like those genres go hand in hand right like what it was successful about scott ian doing the black knight sword of rage it's scott ian and the guy who did Metalocalypse. Those are like, that's the dudes who did it. Oh, that makes total sense. Yeah.
    11:35
    And Brandon Smalls? I think that's right, yeah. Brandon Smalls? Small, not Biggie Smalls. Brandon Smalls? I think that's his name. But they released that as like an EP too, like a very limited EP. You can get The Black Knight Sword of Rage. But like, I saw you put up, you always call me up for Billy games on stuff, but you put up quite a score on Metallica like yesterday, I think. Was it like, I mean, you and your girlfriend play a lot and post your scores, and you both had like – she had a crazy game, but you were like – I think you were close to a billion. I had 920. I thought I was going to get to a billion. I had an extra ball, and then, of course, you start thinking about it. Oh, for sure. Yeah, and my extra ball was like instant death, and it was disappointing. But yeah, 920 is by far the best score I've had on Metallica. And yeah, I think she still put up in that game over 300. Yeah. Until then, she was the grand champion with like 450. So I've taken it back. And doubled it. And doubled her score. I know. Doesn't that feel good? I love putting my name. I mean, we know this, right? No Days Off is completely based around the idea of like show off that you got to put your initials in somewhere Like that is why people tag That why I do it right I do it even for like when become a mode champion Stuff you shouldn tag for I still do Right yeah you do do that And what I like about you, too, is you almost never post the score. It's just the initials and that. And then I bet you might get so many DMs being like, well, how much was it, dude? How much was it? Because I put up a billion on Iron Maiden or whatever. It's exactly that. And some of the biggest pinball nerds in the world follow Nudge. And so I'm always going to feel like crap no matter how good my score is. There's going to be someone who doubled or tripled it. And not only doubled or tripled it, but did it in an IFPA-sanctioned tournament on a stream somewhere. And you're like, okay, yeah, well, it was good. It's not about you in this moment. It's about me. I'm kind of peeing on this thing and marking my territory. I think that's why I score stuff. So do you own most of the spots on all your games? Is it like your name in there? It's me and my girlfriend. Yeah. I don't know if anyone else that's come over has broken through. But, I mean, come on. We play the games more than ten times more than anyone else that comes over, really. Well, yeah, but you're not playing with like – I want to get like a Vegas ringer into your house and like put up – Oh, we've got some here. Well, I know because I was going to say like what happened to me was I have a torpedo alley in my house. and my friend Ben is like an amazing Ben Granger. He's an amazing pinball player. He was like, I definitely like top 300 ranked, but probably higher than that. But like, like a legit player. And so it's so annoying though, because like he'll come to town and he just, it's like putting something on the top shelf and no one can reach it. Like he does that like with all the games. So I'm saying like, you got to have someone over there to like give you something to shoot for, you know, like. No, absolutely. And I do have to have some people over here. I got enough games probably to throw a little tournament. That's what I'm saying. Get Bo and Karen's over there. Yeah, but then it's like people in your house. You know what I mean? Yeah, but you're going to have Bo and Karen's in your house. That guy, he can party. He's cool.
    15:06
    Yeah, so it's actually kind of a funny story how I got Metallica. because I knew it was coming and I never bought an original Metallica because, I'll be honest, I always hated the artwork. Word, same. And people have fought me on this. People love the Dirty Donnie artwork. For me, I understand if you like that style, that's cool, but it never felt like I'm a giant Metallica fan. It never felt like Metallica. I agree with you. It just – the caricature art, I didn't really like it. I didn't even like the old Sparky very much with the tongue out. I'll take it or leave it. And I love the game. The game is great. Obviously, it's a classic. I'd have played it tons. But I was like, eh, it's an expensive game or was an expensive game to own. And I just – I never – one never came up for sale near me, and I just never bought one. But when this came out and I saw the artwork and I was like, this is it, man. This is what a Metallica shirt from the 80s or 90s looked like. Totally. The artwork, everything about it. But they both look dope. They're both interesting and cool looking. And yeah, they nailed the art on this. I absolutely agree with you. The original, I mean, this is actually, Jamie Burchill of the Wormhole Podcast screwed me in a reel one time because they just, literally they would just add, you're smart enough and you're media trained because you're in the entertainment industry that you don't walk into these questions. But he just goes to me, he's like, what's like a controversial, you know, take that you have or something like that? And I was like, well, I think the Metallica artwork is like trash or something like that. But I and he just like cut that and like put it on Instagram. But like, I just think it looks like like an eighth grade notebook kind of drawings. And like I get it, too, is like I have like I know this is like the most disrespectful thing because I do have like a lot of respect for Dirty Donnie and like cultivating that aesthetic. I totally get it, but just like it didn't work for me either. And so to see this, the new artwork is so good and they got it. And like, dude, tell me about, have you played it like with all the code updates and stuff like that? Yeah, yeah, I played that 900 million game I had. I did get to the new wizard mode, the blackened wizard mode, which was cool. They have like the whole band in the electric chairs in the graphic. The whole band is frying. yeah that was a cool it's a cool mode and there's a couple other modes from the albums that have come out like 72 seasons uh hardwired mode or whatever and it's great that they've managed to you know add a couple modes add a couple things well kind of maintain what you love about the original game yeah i like they did a great job of that i like that they really leaned into the electric chair vibes they're like let's put the whole band in electric chairs though yeah You know, hey, living in Trump's America, baby. We're all in electric chairs.
    18:07
    But yeah, that's there anywhere in the U.S. And pardon my maybe the dumbest, stupidest question ever. No, I'm not American. I do live in the U.S. Is there anywhere in the U.S. where you can get the chair? I don't I don't think so. I think that went away. I know there's still there. You're still killing people, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not really like not really like most states like California doesn't like you can go on death row but they'll never actually kill you which i don't really get yeah yep exactly yeah it's just more like you're in like super timeout or something like a extra anyway we do there is no way we can get away with like having a a death a death row conversation on here who was the last person to get the chair and i wonder was it before it was after 1984 when ride the lightning came i was gonna say it was john sparky i think was the last man to be executed by electric chair actually No, dude. Come on. That would be amazing. His name was John P. Sparky. And yeah, this game is actually an homage to him and the band. They were very influenced by that. Well, you know, and I know that this is maybe a controversial take saying that I like the new Sparky so much better. But the reason that I like it is I have an original Metallica Ride the Lightning t-shirt. You know, everyone knows what that is. But the back of it, if anyone remembers, it has like a this basically a skeleton frying in the in the electric chair on the back of the T-shirt, the original T-shirt. And it looks just like the new Sparky. So it's perfect. It's like what it always should have been, you know, word. So I dig it. I dig the new Sparky quite a bit. But, yeah, getting the Metallica up here, being able to play it, having it here. It's kind of like sort of been the dream for me because I love the band so much and I've wanted the game, but I hated the game because I hated the artwork. So for Stern to redo the game for me to get one, it does feel really good. So that's why I say it's the crown jewel of my collection at the moment. And I can't see that one going anywhere for quite some time. You may have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. amazing i love it strong take uh right and that let's let's close the door on the game room with that uh thank you so there's no door though it's just you walk up the stairs and it's right there but let's let's let's swish the beaded curtain to the game room well amazing thank thank you shane and uh hey if you're listening to this and i think you are because why else would you be hearing my voice we have juana summers coming up next she's coming up next she's fantastic and i can't wait stay tuned well shane our next guest is one of the hosts of the nationally syndicated NPR news program, All Things Considered. She covered the 2012 presidential race for political and has reported for CNN, Mashable, the AP, and a billion other fancy places. Her work has led her to receive numerous awards, including a fellowship in 2016 at Georgetown's prestigious Institute of Politics and Public Service. Our first fellow on the podcast, Shane, have you ever been called a fellow? It's been a minute. Okay, sure. But in the pinball community, she is just as active. She He works alongside many other great folks in the Baltimore chapter of Bells and Chimes, regularly competes as a tournament player, and was featured in Nudge 2, actually, in the article Lost in the B-Sauce as one of the volunteers who make Pin Baltimore happen, which is just like one of the vibiest pinball fests on the planet. We'll get into it. Please welcome to the show, Juana Summers. Juana, thanks for joining us. Hello. Thanks for having me. We were so psyched. Like I said, I've been aware of you for a little bit. You were at Pin Baltimore the same time that Gina Colecchio, one of our writers, was there covering it. And we were just like so excited to hear that you're a pinball fan. Yeah, I'm a big fan and also a big Gina fan. She's great. Okay, great. She's great. Us as well. Thanks for squeezing us in today, by the way. I know it's like 5.30. We're doing the podcast. We've got to go. And then I'm looking at the news and I'm like, oh, there's a big news drop that just happened. Uh-oh. But anyway, is pinball sort of a valve for you? Like after your job? I know that's something for me that I really think about. I use my brain a lot in my job. So what is pinball's kind of like your relationship to pinball? I mean, for me, I think part of it is definitely a little bit of an escapist hobby for me. I love that I can just kind of zone out. Some of my favorite times are going to one of our local pinball places, popping on my headphones, listening to some music and just digging deep into a game. But I have to say, for me, I think the biggest thing that pinball has brought to my life is community. As somebody who – I work in Washington, D.C. My family and I live in Baltimore. And it's one of the ways that I've really made lifelong friendships. My husband and I met the woman who married us through our pinball league. I've made so many incredible friendships and relationships. And so for me, it's just that mix of something that I love to do that appeals to my brain that looks nothing like what I do for my day job. But also just – it's brought so many incredible people into my life. And I think that's the thing I perhaps love the most about it these days. It's funny. I think that's a really common answer for people, that there is both the visceral feeling of just like playing pinball, and it's a great way to kind of like, you know, strip focus and do that thing. But something that people really respond to is the community that's built up. I think that's why Nudge started, right, is for those things.
    23:54
    So I guess what was sort of your experience getting into pinball? A lot of us, like me, I got into it more as an adult. Did you play as a kid, or how did you get into it? No, I don't remember ever playing as a kid, but my husband played as a kid. Before we got married, this would have been back in, what, 2014, 2015. We were walking around the neighborhood that we now live in, and we saw a sign outside a bar advertising a league. We played a little bit, just having walked into restaurants and stuff in the city that had pinball. Neither of us had ever thought about playing competitively, realized we enjoyed it, and we were looking for something fun to do together other than just go out and throw back a couple beers and started playing competitively and were just really hooked.
    24:35
    Nice. Yeah, for sure. And I think, is that around the same time? You're actually, I believe you're an IFPA rep. Is that right? I'm a women's state rep. I was on the women's advisory board for the IFPA, but left that position about a year ago. Was that around the same time that you were getting into competitive? Did you just jump right into competitive pinball as well? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so we started playing just kind of, you know, we'd see machines at a bar or restaurant, some in good condition, some in less good condition. You know, you just want to play in between having a conversation, having a couple beers. And we found that it was something that we mutually really enjoyed. And I think at the time I had either just moved or was getting ready to move to Baltimore from Washington. And I was looking to find ways to meet people, trying to find some new hobbies. And so I kind of just launched right into it and unfortunately never left, even though I totally sucked when I first started. I'm hoping I've gotten a little bit better. Do you remember the first game? Maybe not the first game you played, but the first game where you were like, oh, I got it. I just keep hitting the start button like I'm feeding this thing quarters. Do you remember what game that was? Oh, my gosh. I think it probably would have been one of the older Spider-Man games. They had one at a bar that my husband and I actually went to on our first date and it was one of the only it was definitely one of the first pinball machines I had ever played and just couldn stop playing And I thought it was so cool I mean, not super fancy, but I'm a big superheroes fan. I'm a big Spider-Man geek. So totally love that. I think that was one of my first loves. But my tried and true will always come back to super favorite game is Taxi. Nice.
    26:12
    I have threatened to steal the one out of our collection at Pimp Baltimore. That game, I have so many good memories attached to over the years, and it just never gets old. Nice. Such a funky, weird game. It's probably the only game where there is both Santa Claus and Gorbachev in it. Exactly. So wild. Is that sort of your favorite era for pinball, like 80s or 90s?
    26:36
    Do you like moderns? What do you play? I mostly play older games. I am a big fan of just – I'm a big fan of EMs, older games. Anything with like an oddball funky theme is usually it for me. I'm not as big of a fan of moderns, although I do have to say we recently got a labyrinth at the bar, and I absolutely love that. I've had a ton of fun. There's also some theme nostalgia there. But I definitely trend towards playing – when I'm playing just recreationally, I really love playing older games. You said you're big into superheroes and comics and stuff. Have you played The Uncanny X-Men? What do you think of that when we had Jack Danger on the program? Love Jack. I finally just got to play it actually over my Thanksgiving break, and it's a total blast. I was saying to a couple friends and I on Black Friday, decided to go out, check it out, and knock it around. And we were saying, you know how there are some games where you just totally get in your zen, it's almost like a little relaxing? This is not great. This game actually stresses me out quite a bit. There's so much going on. The flipper setup is so cool. I love the animations. It's just, it's a total treat. But I definitely, I've looked at my heart rate monitor. I'm sure my heart rate would have been sky high the entire time I was playing it because there's so much going on. Okay, so you like games that are a little more chilled out. Does that mean you're a very methodical player? Like, are you trapping up, planning your shots? Like, you seem like you might be that kind of a person. Or are you just, like, full on, like, slapping the shit out of the game? No, I'm definitely a lot more logical and orderly. It's like, trap it up, look for the right shot, try 50 million times to get it if I don't get it the first time. I definitely, there is a method to my madness most of the time when I'm playing, particularly if I'm playing in competition. So you travel a lot. I remember like following you on Instagram and seeing like when you're in Europe for the Olympics. Have you played much pinball like on that side of the of the pond? I have actually never really played pinball internationally. I didn't get to play a single game while I was in Paris for the Olympics. I was there for almost a month. And unfortunately, the Paris Pinball Museum was closed because everyone in France leaves. They go on vacants, they go on vacation. So didn't get to play there at all. I think I've only, if I'm remembering correctly, I think I've only played pinball in the U.S. now that I'm thinking about it. Wow. Well, we're going to have to change that for sure. I know. The people at Pinball Maps are going to be in contact for sure.
    28:50
    They've been the biggest encourager for me to get out there and play that way. So I know. Yeah. It's a great resource. I mean, I know for me, whether it's a reporting trip or just travel I'm doing on my own, that's one of the first things I check. I love being able to squeeze in, even if it's only get to drop into somewhere for a little bit. getting to check out somebody else's arcade scene. It's just always such a treat to see the kinds of collections people have. I've spent most of my career covering politics and I know, especially when I go down to South Carolina, hitting a bang back has been incredible. New Hampshire being so close to the Boston area, there's just an embarrassment of riches in a lot of the States I travel in. So I've gotten really lucky. That's a shout out to, to bang back for sure. They are amazing. And like one of the most fun, like social media follows, uh, if y'all like that. So I wanted to move on a little bit and talk about bells and chimes. Um, I think for people who maybe aren't familiar with what Bells and Chimes is, could you kind of explain that organization a little bit? Yeah, Bells and Chimes is a pinball community for women. There are chapters in many cities across the country. Everybody's looks a little different. Some people run leagues, other people run standalone tournaments. But the goal is to build an inclusive and farming environment for all women to be able to come together and play pinball. I think anybody who's listening to this knows that our hobby has a lot of wonderful people, but for a time was overwhelmingly dominated by men. And I think that when it was started, there was a desire to create a space for women to come together to form community. I personally love Bells and Chimes because it can be a gateway drug for people. So I have a lot of women who will come to one of my women's tournaments, and they'll love it. And then the next month, they're playing in our Open League, or they're coming to other bigger events that are for all genders. And so I love the fact that it can be that space where somebody gets comfortable, somebody can learn. I know our vibe and the vibe at all the Bells tournaments I've played over the years has been so welcoming and affirming and inclusive and supportive. And it really helps people be able to take that next step and to get involved in other avenues of competitive pinball, should they choose. Or I have some players who only play women's tournaments and they love it. Right. I love that attitude, like going into a tournament that you're feeling like it's a very inclusive environment and that people are being supportive because that isn't always the vibe at a pinball tournament. Sometimes it is like I know Howdy Partner is a tournament format that they do at Wedgehead in Portland and that that's very supportive. But that is something that I have always looked at bells and chimes sort of with jealousy is the sort of like the community aspect of it, for sure. Yeah, this is something we talk about a lot, especially with my co-organizers of PIM Baltimore. I really feel strongly that anybody of any gender, any age, any race is capable of building an inclusive, accepting and welcoming community. You just have to like really want it, you know, and you have to. And I think the tone really starts at the top. So I really take that seriously in the events that I'm involved in and the tournaments I've run. We want everyone to feel welcome. The competition part of our hobby is wonderful and I love it. But what I want more as a tournament director and as somebody who runs a pretty big pinball event is I want people to leave saying they had a good time. Like they felt good about themselves. Like we're all doing – we're slamming around these big-ass machines. Like we should all – this should be fun. Yes, exactly right. We're doing this for fun. Like remember this. This is not our job. Well, maybe it's some people's job, but it's not my job. I don't know if it's anyone's job really. No one – Maybe Escher or Jason. I don't even know. I was going to say no one on this call. It is definitely not our job. But I'm looking at the – I just pulled up the Baltimore Bells and Chimes right here, and I see a beautiful picture, and that's a lot of people. Like it seems like you've got a pretty big chapter there. We are really fortunate. My co-organizer, Christina, and I, we've ran quarterly tournaments this year. We usually get 20, 25-ish people, some of which are people – women who play in our open leagues, some of which are not. We get people of all ages. We've had kids show up. We've had people travel to come hang out with us. So we feel and I feel really fortunate that this chapter is still enduring because I actually started it in February of 2020. And then the whole little thing called a pandemic. Oh, wow. We had our first season, then the pandemic hit and we were all inside for a really long time and people came back and we had more people when we came back. And I think that's just a testament to just building good community and people feeling like it's an inclusive space that they can play. Yeah, that's awesome. I wanted to ask you because so you do. Are you a tournament director? You TD tournaments? I do. Yeah. I TD almost. I started our Bells chapter. I TD for Bells. I'm also a TD for one of the open leagues in Baltimore City, as well as a tournament director for Penn Baltimore. So I asked this to Elizabeth Weinberg as well, because she's a tournament director out in Los Angeles. But what do you see as like the most important personality trait to being a successful TD? You're dealing with interpersonal conflict occasionally and those kind of things. What have you seen as like an effective – like what makes you an effective TD?
    33:41
    I think it's being incredibly well organized and also – for me, it's recognizing as a TD that my number one job is to make sure everybody feels supported to have a good tournament experience. And that means an acknowledgment that maybe I'm not going to have my best day playing. It is really hard to TD and play at the same time. And because of the number of, especially because of the number of women's events in our state, I'm almost always, every event that I'm TDing, I'm usually also always playing. So it's learning how to balance the two things. And I think also you mentioned conduct issues, like they, hopefully they don't come up often, but I feel one of the things that we did with the pinball league that I play in is we created a code of conduct that every player agrees to when they play our tournaments. So I think setting clear expectations, if something does go sideways, you have a mechanism to deal with it. You never want that to happen. Hopefully everybody just comes, plays pinball, makes new friends, has a great time. But I think just being really clear about this is how we do it here and this is what happens if things take a turn that they shouldn't. It's just the thing about pinball, this is kind of obvious but it has to be said. It's like these machines are so temperamental. Like shit is going wrong. Balls are going to get stuck. All the time. And it doesn't even matter if it's a brand new game or a 50-year-old game. There's always these kinds of issues, and that's on you. And it's almost like you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop. There's going to be almost every tournament I've played, one of the machines goes down, at least for a few rounds. So it's just that's – hopefully people are understanding of this, that every tournament, you're going to get screwed a little bit one way or another. whether it's something airballing over the flipper at one point or someone has to play a compensation ball or whatever happens. And these are things you have to deal with because a lot of times not everybody is going to be happy with your decision.
    35:28
    Absolutely not. I love the fact that the IFPA PAPA rules are so straightforward. So you literally have – like you can literally take a flow chart and say if X, then Y happens. So trying to be as transparent as possible about the calls. I know when I TD'd women's states, I literally printed out the rules and brought them with me last year. Just so everybody knows, I think it's just having confidence in your decision-making, communicating clearly, trying to handle things the same way, and also being open to be – if you don't know something, look it up and ask. I love how active the IFPA folks are on Discord. There's always someone else to ask too, so I just always try to do – you're not going to get it right every time. You're not going to make everybody happy every time, but I try my best to be fair. Can you think of a specific incident where you were – that you've dealt with a challenge? Can we put it that way for a professional question? There are lots of challenges.
    36:16
    I'm trying to think. Do you have any – no fistfights or anything? No fistfights. I mean the most frequent – I mean we have – I feel so blessed that we have such a chill community. We don't have a lot of issues pop up, but kind of things that pop up. I'm thinking I just helped TD our league finals over the weekend. And like we had an issue where there was during finals with our A group, our top four, our top three, there was a left flipper on Jaws that was intermittently being sticky. Player reported it. I watched the rest of her game. Didn't seem to be an issue for her. She was it was the upper left flipper. She was ripping it repeatedly. Looked fine. Player comes behind her plays. Didn't report an issue. Next player comes up and he's in a multi ball, so he can't really trap it up and do anything about it. There's just a slight intermittent issue, so we ruled it as a play on minor malfunction. It didn't benefit one person more than the other. She ended up coming back and winning. The purse player who ended up reporting it ended up coming back and winning the game. So it didn't really result into an issue. But those are the kind of things that I mostly deal with. It's just a lot of like ticky-tacky mechanical stuff most of the time. I think 1% of the things that you're dealing with are going to be those more gnarly either interpersonal issues or something like that. That doesn't happen to all of them. Upper flipper on Jaws, that seems like very, very inconsequential. One and done up there for the most part. I think it was an upper flipper. Yeah. You have such a more functional league night than I do. I was such a baby. I had to play Toy Story 4, and I made everybody miserable for two rounds. Oh, really? I know. I'm a diva. Because I just was like, this is the worst game of all time. And the, sorry, Jersey Jack, I don't actually think that. I was just being, you know. Hyperbolic. But also the manual ball lock on the left-hand side for multi-balls. The road trip one? Yeah. It wouldn't register that the ball was locked, and then it would just sort of wait for the ball finder, and then it would dribble out and fall into the left-hand outlay every time. And so people were like – they took it out of the bank after I – but I'm not proud. In retrospect, I'm not proud of how I acted. So I would be perhaps one of those people that you would be using your interpersonal skills on. But I do want to move on, though, because I want to give plenty of time to talk about Pin Baltimore. You are an organizer for Pin Baltimore. We wrote about it. But please just like give a it such a cool unique pinball experience that I just would like to hear kind of your words on what it is Yeah so we like to call Pin Baltimore the greatest pinball party in America And if folks come, I think you will see what we mean. We are a party first and a series of pinball tournaments second. It's a three-day event, and it will be held this year over April 18th, 19th, and 20th at Holy for Holies in Baltimore, Maryland. It's organized by myself. I coordinate all the volunteers and run the women's tournament. But the real brains behind it are Jeff Danik, who is the owner of Holy for Holies, Jake Peterson, his partner in crime, who owns half of our crazy collection and is always keeping us on our toes, and David Markland, who I also happen to be married to. It's a great event. We run seven tournaments over three days. Baltimore Women's City Champs and Baltimore City Champs are kind of the two crown jewels. But it's just a fun time. We have live music, art. There is the head-to-head challenger and joust competitions, which we do in our round. Costumes are encouraged. It's a really awesome space. And one of the things I do want to stress, we were talking about community earlier. That's something really important to us. While there are these seven tournaments, we want this event to be fun for non-competitors, too. Non-competitor experience is our top priority because that's how communities grow. We make every game available for non-competitors to play after competition wraps every day. Some of our tournaments are non-sanctioned. We want to encourage an inclusive community vibe, and we try to keep as prices, even though we offer a lot, we have a massive collection that we all maintain out of labor of love. We try to keep prices as low as we can. We always pay our artists and musicians for their work. It is just an absolute blast. It's the thing I look forward to every time we do it. And it's just so much fun. Awesome. I'm so psyched on it just from the pictures because very rarely do you see like there are musicians playing and then just lines of people playing pinball to either side. It's such a cool, unique experience. It looks like so. Yeah, that's what we've really tried to create. Like we want it to be a pinball festival that is made for people who don't necessarily like to go to big festivals. Like we're not going to be out in some warehouse. We're in the middle of Baltimore City. There's a ton to do that isn't competition.
    41:07
    And the experience of having like a rock band jam out while you were playing those machines in the upstairs of Holy for Holies, which is not normally open to the public, it is incredible. And I will just throw in a plug for folks who maybe haven't been to Baltimore. It's an incredible neighborhood. I happen to live in this neighborhood. There's a ton to do. You're in walking distance of art museums, a skate park, lots of restaurants and shops. So there's a lot to do. It's super, super fun. I know folks who every year badger me for the dates they can book their Airbnb online. Nice.
    41:38
    I also know there is a component of custom games that have been shown there. There is a hard body that has a mirror on it. They've replaced the back glass. There's a Galaxy. I think it's called Galaxy 2021 was the rename.
    41:54
    Could you talk a little bit about those games and what people are doing? Is that Jake Peterson who is creating those? So the Galaxy mods was all Jake Peterson. We also have another retheme in our collection called Gollum that one of our league members, Stefan Hendy, did. He is an incredible artist. And so we love that. He's got some custom artwork also hanging in the space as well. Really, our focus is on those custom games, those oddball games that you're not going to find anywhere else. We like to keep it fun and keep it quirky. We have added so much to our collection over the last couple of years. So we're really excited to be able to just showcase those kinds of things too. I love that too, especially in a tournament, you know, because you're going to have serious people coming in and maybe it's not for them. Like, you know, the people that know every single rule on whatever game. It's like when you walk into a tournament and you've got all these games no one really knows, it's like the great equalizer. It's kind of fun for anyone. Anyone can have a bad ball on any game, but especially on a game they haven't played before that's super, super weird. So that sounds like that's part of the whole experience of pinball. Yeah, you're going to see things you've never seen before. You're going to get exposed to some new games. And while there is some serious competition and we get some serious competitors, we want this to be accessible. We want it to be fun, and we want it to be different. We don't want to create something as organizers that looks like anything that anybody else is doing. And I think we've done that. This is about experience first and whopper point second. Hell yeah. So if people want to buy tickets for Penn Baltimore, what's the best way that they can can do that? Tickets are not on sale quite yet. We'll be there real soon. We just did. I urge everybody to check us out. Penn Baltimore on social. The announcement video, if I do say so myself, is pretty sick. It's so awesome. It was so good. Yeah. Amazing.
    43:46
    We had an absolute blast and shout out to our league member, Lauren Scott, who shot that video for us. She's fantastic. We're going to have ticket pricing information up soon, but lock in those dates. And the other thing I should flag that's something really special that we're expanding is we offer free tickets to people if anyone's experiencing financial challenges. It's completely anonymous. And when we open up our ticket portal to sell tickets, people can also donate tickets to you. We feel really strongly about keeping those prices low. You shouldn't have to be rich to participate in our hobby. And we want anybody who wants to be there to be able to be there. So that will be a part of our ticketing platform. Amazing. Once again, those dates are April 18th through 20th. Through 20th. So remember, 4-20. Yeah, 4-20. Easy to remember for me, for sure. Easy to remember, possibly to forget. I have one more question for you. I do like to ask this to a lot of our guests.
    44:37
    This is just a fun thing to think about. A lot of us who are in this hobby think about it. Do you have a dream theme that hasn't been made yet? Or what game would you want to see exist that doesn't? It could be music. It could be I know you're a big superhero fan, like you said. I know. It's a lot of pressure. It is a lot of pressure. For me, I'm such an anime nerd that I can pull eight things, and no one knows what I'm talking about, but I will just go with that. But yeah, any music? I mean, I know you're a big music fan, too. Do you have any kind of – yeah, what do you think? On the note of anime, I think someone would get all my money if they made a Sailor Moon game. I think I used to buy it immediately.
    45:19
    And I don't know. I would love to see like a solid hip-hop theme pin at some point. I think – I know that the music pins, I know there's a lot of controversy. A lot of people have a lot of strong feelings. I think the market is there for it, and I think that somebody just has to be willing to take the leap. Like the Up in Smoke Tour pinball machine?
    45:37
    I would play the hell out of that. So would I. Yeah, we've talked about that. I mean a Wu-Tang pin is right there. The theme would be so good. That's been on my husband's list. Yeah, there are so many opportunities there for sure. They've talked about Beastie Boys too, actually. That's been brought up, sort of rumored. I think that'd be fun. I've heard that rumor too. I could see that as a Jersey Jack game. I don't know why, but that just sticks. Maybe I'm feeling guilty now that I said that I didn't like Toy Story 4 so much. They know you didn't mean it. They know. They are actually a huge Nudge supporter, so I do want to shout out Jersey Jack. But, Juana, thank you so much for, first of all, coming on the show, but also just like everything you've been doing to promote pinball. You are a very – you're out in front of people as part of your job, and I just think you've really raised the profile of pinball with people who might not hear about it normally. So thanks so much. Thank you guys so much for having me. I mean, this is such a blast. Like I feel so fortunate to have stumbled quite literally into a hobby where I've gotten to meet and talk to so many cool people and also just have a lot of fun playing pinball and escaping everything that we all do in our day jobs. Like it's just I feel so lucky every time I get to play. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks so much. Thank you, Juana. Thanks. so there it is with juana summers she's terrific and we really appreciate her fitting us in her very busy schedule especially as the ceo shooter was was caught and she had to run to report the news uh pretty wild stuff but it was she's awesome isn't she no she's yeah she's great and um a really awesome ambassador to have for pinball so that was it was a super fun yeah i mean you guys just heard it you don't have to have listen to me talk about it have you been to pin baltimore before i have not that is that's on the list i think we should go this year i well you probably can't because you're probably on tour or something but for me it falls on the holiest of holidays which is 420 um and i i think i'm gonna be going to baltimore so hopefully uh i'll see some of y'all there that would be that would be great i bet they got pretty good weed in baltimore seems like a place that they they know a thing or two about drugs okay yeah i've seen the wire yeah and that's what made you want to do drugs in baltimore awesome there's a cut this part shane do not put that in there because there's no way i want to summers wants us talking about Baltimore and the wire like drugs like in this book. Why not? Because that's just she likes Baltimore and doesn't want the that's like just like the stereotype of Baltimore is all I'm saying. It's like let's cut that out. I don't know. We got to do something. I don't know.
    48:36
    Well, I think you're going to have an excellent time in Baltimore, Ian. And yes, I believe I'm not going to be able to make it, but this does sound like one of the most fun. I'll call it a tournament, but it's more than that in pinball, I think. Yeah, it's a tournament. It's a concert. It's just like good food at a weird Mexican restaurant with the best name. Holy Frijoles, I mean, the best. You love it. Yeah. No, it's going to be awesome. 420 in Baltimore. I'll see you all there.
    49:09
    Awesome. So next week we are going to roll out another episode. We're going to keep them coming, episode three. and do we spoil any spoilers or are we just gonna kind of see what happens i think yeah well let's see what this is a long time here i'll give i'll give the folks a hint how about that this is a amazing photographer who has had something published in nudge magazine so that could be anyone i mean they're all amazing photographers there's a lot a professional you know they're not like me they're not just like taking a canon rebel pro and like throwing up some you know portrait 400 and calling it art this is like a a true you know and also in some pinball industry news there is word on the street that nudge magazine ian you will be able to go over to stern that's right check out their new game and about when this drops it's going to be around the time i think that that will be happening that's always exciting i mean to be able to go behind the doors at the world's largest pinball company that's a pretty cool thing that's true shane yeah uh i'll be going to stern on january 7th uh to see what their new game is going to be they they didn't tell us but i'm assuming it's dungeons and dragons that's been the word on the street that's the word on the street that's when i want to ask my crew when I put my feelers out there, that's what they say. So we'll see, I guess. We'll see. I've heard Dungeons & Dragons from quite a few reputable sources, so that's probably what it will be. But there's other podcasts you can go to for your rumors. We're not here for the rumor mill, but we will talk about the new games that are coming out, that's for sure. But everybody, this is a new show. Make sure that you, whatever you listen to it on, whether it's Apple Music or Spotify, you hit that follow button, the subscribe button, like it, share it, do what you can to spread the word because we're a new – we're very new in the algorithm sense. So anything you can do to help us get in front of more people and spread the word on this thing, we would really appreciate it. That's right. Mash that like button, guys. Like and subscribe. Leave comments. Absolutely. And we'll see you all next time on the Nudgecast. S