Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

The Spinner Is Lit - Episode 74_Joe Abate_Operator

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 54m·analyzed·May 1, 2025
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Operator Joe Abate discusses his path from laser disc expert to building Playfield Sports and Games in Reno.

Summary

Joe Abate, an experienced pinball operator and technician, discusses his journey from laser disc restoration hobbyist to full-service arcade operator. He details his background as "the laser guy," his transition to pinball (catalyzed by Theater of Magic), his repair expertise learned from old-timers in the industry, and his vision for Playfield Sports and Games—a new full-service venue opening in downtown Reno featuring 15-17 pinball machines, video games, food, and a full bar. The venue emphasizes nostalgia and experiential design rather than focusing solely on pinball.

Key Claims

  • Joe Abate is opening Playfield Sports and Games in downtown Reno (235 Lake Street) with 15-17 pinball machines, video games, full kitchen, and full bar

    high confidence · Joe Abate directly states opening is targeted for 'next couple weeks' with detailed venue specifications

  • Theater of Magic was Joe's gateway pinball game that got him into the hobby around 2003-2004

    high confidence · Joe explicitly identifies Theater of Magic as 'the game that really got me into pinball' and states he still owns it

  • Joe's first owned pinball machine was Whirlwind, followed by Data East Star Wars, which he still owns with a custom playfield

    high confidence · Joe clearly identifies these machines and notes Star Wars 'never been out on location. And it's my baby.'

  • Joe learned laser disc and arcade game repair in late 1990s-early 2000s from old-timers like Duncan (Seattle) and Franz (Tennessee)

    high confidence · Joe names specific mentors and timeframe for learning repair skills from retired technicians

  • Joe was hired by a technician to fix a stuck flipper coil on his Star Wars around 2007-2008, but the repair failed after a month with no warranty

    high confidence · Joe describes this as the turning point that motivated him to learn schematics and become self-sufficient in repair

  • Joe's grandfather and grandmother ran liquor stores in San Francisco after Prohibition and operated pinball machines in their stores

    high confidence · Joe states his grandfather 'ran pinball machines in the liquor store' and connects this to family history in the liquor business

  • Mike Lafreda, a local Reno operator, will run IFPA tournaments at Playfield Sports and Games

    high confidence · Joe directly states 'We're bringing in Mike Lafreda, a local guy who's going to do all our IFPA tournaments'

  • Joe believes operators must focus on hospitality and understand that games are 'the gimmick' to profitability, not the sole focus

Notable Quotes

  • “I sell nostalgia. That's what I do.”

    Joe Abate @ N/A — Core business philosophy for Playfield Sports and Games—encapsulates his vision beyond just pinball

  • “Theater of Magic... if you say video games, I'm going to say Dragon Slayer. When people ask me what's the game that really got me into pinball, it's going to be Theater of Magic.”

    Joe Abate @ N/A — Identifies the pivotal game that shifted him from video game collector to pinball enthusiast

  • “I paid him $300, $400... it blew up again. And he said, well, none of my work's warrantied. And that I said, I can do this, and I can learn to fix this.”

    Joe Abate @ N/A — Critical turning point that motivated him to become self-sufficient in repair and technical knowledge

  • “If the experience, if I can bring that experience to play field sports and games, then I've done my job. Then I've created the environment and the vision that's in my head.”

    Joe Abate @ N/A — Articulates his vision for the new venue as experiential immersion in nostalgia rather than transactional arcade

  • “Pinball is still kind of segregated from, like, video games. Like, even as an operator, I try to keep the pinball area with the pinballs and the video game area because it is a very different scene.”

    Joe Abate @ N/A — Reflects on market segmentation and the challenge of serving both communities under one roof

  • “anybody can go get a bunch of investors and get a bunch of money and buy a bunch of stuff and get a liquor license and throw it in a row. but you have to really like you said Dan I'm still a kid of the 80s”

    Joe Abate @ N/A — Distinguishes authentic nostalgia creation from cookie-cutter venue development; emphasizes personal curation

Entities

Joe AbatepersonSpencerpersonDanpersonMarkpersonPlayfield Sports and GamesproductTheater of MagicgameWhirlwindgameData East Star Warsgame

Signals

  • ?

    venue_signal: Playfield Sports and Games opening in downtown Reno with 15-17 pinball machines, video games, full kitchen, and bar within weeks

    high · Joe Abate confirms opening timeline, provides address (235 Lake Street), and detailed venue specifications

  • ?

    venue_signal: Playfield Sports and Games positioning as multi-faceted nostalgia venue (pinball + video games + food + sports memorabilia + hospitality bar) rather than pinball-focused arcade

    high · Joe explicitly contrasts his approach with Prescott (known as 'the pinball spot') and emphasizes selling nostalgia across multiple experiential layers

  • ?

    operational_signal: IFPA tournaments at Playfield Sports and Games will be managed by local operator Mike Lafreda

    high · Joe states 'We're bringing in Mike Lafreda, a local guy who's going to do all our IFPA tournaments'

  • ?

    community_signal: Joe Abate emphasizes importance of passing technical knowledge to younger generation to prevent loss of repair expertise, learned from old-timers in laser disc era

    high · Joe states: 'if we don't teach the younger generation of people getting into it, then it becomes no different than the guys who taught me'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Joe Abate's grandfather operated pinball machines in San Francisco liquor stores post-Prohibition; family has liquor business history; Joe sees Playfield Sports and Games as completing a family circle

    high · Joe describes grandfather's liquor store with pinball machines and connects family business legacy to current venture

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.524

0:00
Welcome to the Spinner's Lift Pinball Podcast, Episode 74, Joabate Operator. I'm your host Spencer and with me are my co-hosts Dan Hey how's it going guys Mark What's up listeners And our very special guest Pinball operator and all around awesome Jedi Knight Joe Abate Hey guys thanks for having me Looking forward to hanging out with you guys Yeah you know we always see each other at the shows And I know you and Dan play league together and we're always talking about, we got to get you on, we got to get you on. And finally, here you are. And you've got a lot going on. You've got a new location you're setting up. I do. Yeah, new location in Reno, Nevada, Playfield Sports and Games. And I gave myself a little plug, 235 Lake Street. And, yeah, hopefully we will get open in the next couple weeks. That's the goal.
1:22
Nice. Okay, so is this just going to be just pinball, or is it going to be pinball, video games?
1:29
It's going to be full bar, video games, pinball, kind of like the coin-op locations that I ran for many years in Sacramento. But, yeah, we'll have, you know, food. We have a full kitchen, full pinball deck, 15 to 17 pinball machines, and then a full bar. So, yeah, it's going to be fun.
1:55
Well, that sounds good. Mark, you had some questions, right? Well, I just want to say Joe was really kind enough to show me the facility before it opened, obviously. And it is really, really a great location. And I like the layout of the place. It's really, really cool what it has to offer. And I can't say enough of how much I wish you the best of success with the place. but I have to say that it's going to be a hit in downtown Reno, which is awesome. So I just wanted to let you know that before I start asking questions. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm glad you had the opportunity to come by and, you know, just get a little sneak peek. And, you know, you saw what's upcoming and, you know, what the future holds. And, yeah, we're really excited to bring just another cool spot to Reno and the downtown area. I know the goal for just Reno and that area in general is to revitalize it. So we hope to be part of that future. So, yeah, excited. That's awesome. So we kind of know where you come from and what you're all about.

medium confidence · Joe states 'the games, and this is something a lot of people don't like to hear, it's the gimmick. It's the gimmick to what you're trying to be profitable.'

Pat Lawlor
person
Mike Lafredaperson
Paigeperson
Dragon's Lairgame
Mad Dog McCreegame
California Extremeevent
Rob Anthonyperson
Clay Calgillperson
TJ Scott Evansperson
Reno Acesorganization
Duncanperson
Franzperson
  • ?

    restoration_signal: Joe Abate built reputation as laser disc restoration expert in late 1990s-early 2000s, learned from retired technicians Duncan (Seattle) and Franz (Tennessee), repaired both commercial and home laser disc players

    high · Joe details his laser disc repair journey, naming mentors and timeframe for skill development

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball and video game collector communities remain segregated; few collectors embrace both equally; pinball 'invasive' and can convert collectors from other interests

    medium · Joe and hosts discuss how pinball consumes hobbyists despite multi-genre interests; Joe says he tries to 'keep the pinball area with the pinballs and the video game area' as operator

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Joe emphasizes that genuine nostalgia venues must be curated by people who authentically experienced the era, not manufactured nostalgia; Disneyland queue design influenced his vision

    high · Mark notes Joe's venue 'has an air of authenticity that is completely unlike places that try to manufacture nostalgia'; Joe discusses Disneyland queue experience as inspiration

  • ?

    operational_signal: Joe argues operators must prioritize overall hospitality and experience; games are 'the gimmick' to drive profitability, not the sole value proposition

    medium · Joe states 'you have to really focus on the hospitality side' and 'the games...it's the gimmick. It's the gimmick to what you're trying to be profitable'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Playfield Sports and Games planning partnerships with Reno Aces baseball, cannabis dispensaries, local extreme sports figures, and UNR

    medium · Joe mentions 'great meeting with the Reno Aces,' dispensary collaboration interest, and leveraging general manager's brother (professional mountain biker) for authentic sports content

  • ?

    product_concern: Poor repair service (unwarrantied work) on Joe's Star Wars flipper coil around 2007-2008 motivated him to become self-sufficient technician; highlights broader service quality issues in the era

    high · Joe describes paying $300-400 for repair that failed within a month with 'none of my work's warranted' response, which catalyzed his technical learning

  • ?

    collector_signal: Joe maintains deeply personal collection including Theater of Magic (never for commercial operation), Data East Star Wars with custom playfield (home collection only), and various laser disc machines; emotional attachment prevents commercial placement

    high · Joe repeatedly states machines 'would never leave,' 'never been out on location,' and regrets commercial operation of Theater of Magic

    • 3:05
    Give us a little of your background. You're actually Internet famous for videos dating back years and years and years because you were the laser guy. I was the laser guy. So, yeah, definitely. So, Dan, I've known you for a long time. We're local together. You've known me for many years. So, yeah, I mean, a little bit about myself for those that, you know, don't know me per se or they know me in the last, you know, five to ten years on the pinball scene. I was definitely a video game guy long before pinball.
    3:43
    Laser disc was my genre. So when I say Laserdisc, most people, you know, kind of correlate that with Dragon's Lair. And that was definitely my game in the 80s, in the mid-80s. I was the kid that got taught by the older guys how to play it and then learned how to beat it, learned what the moves were. And then that kind of, I would say, you know, I was really the kid who hung out at the arcade until the arcades kind of started to die off into, you know, the early 90s, mid 90s. And I moved to Lake Tahoe. I was actually living in Incline and I was a snowboard instructor. And I ended up just kind of just reminiscing, I guess, nostalgia and thinking about, you know, childhood and Dragon's Lair. And just at that time, we didn't necessarily have the Internet and the ability to search things out the way we do today. And I ended up finding Donkey Kong in like the penny saver. and it was like an old you know kind of throw out little free thing that would come before like craigslist and marketplace and all that stuff and i got a donkey kong and it didn't work and i think i paid something like 100 bucks for it and taught myself how to work on it and then that kind of turned into sourcing a dragon's lair and that turned into learning how to repair laser disc players and yeah kind of like how Dan said internet famous on the Laserdisc side I pretty much was one of the few guys that kind of was still repairing them and getting them to work and my goal was to really find them all and get them all in one you know cool lineup and then we started going to California Extreme and you know the rest is history. Right that's where I first ran across you because you would bring stuff like Cliffhanger and you would bring Super Don. Right. You know, Don Quixote and all the weird stuff that you never saw. Right. And I would play it on like that music. Yeah, emulators. So to see it, you know, in the really real world, it was great. And then to find out, you know, you know, probably some years later that like a dude who lived a mile from my house was the dude who was fluffing this stuff to the show was awesome. Yeah, and I think that was a big one, was that I was never really like, you know, the scene was never like the scene is today, and I think that's a big thing that we talk about, like, bringing these designers for these games out to these shows, and to be honest, a lot of the guys have no idea that, like, there's a whole nostalgia side of it and collector side of it, and, yeah, I mean, that was My goal to doing all of it and, you know, getting into the hobby and being a collector and all that really was just, I enjoyed playing the games. And I missed going to the arcade. And so I was like, well, I can, I'm at a point where I can do it at my house. Well, that's why most of us got into it, right? There was a moment in time where arcades were pretty well done. And so, yeah, you wanted an arcade, you had to do your own. What was the transition to pinball like? Like, when did you go from being a video guy? Because I've known you, I mean, I knew you, once I figured out you were the laser guy, I was amazed. Yeah, but you knew me as a pinball guy. When I knew you as a pinball guy, we met through the pinball hop. Yeah, yeah, and I think pinball in itself was always there. But pinball, like, to be really honest, and it's funny because I was having this conversation with somebody not that long ago, and pinball was, as a video game guy, when we were kids, pinball was like the old guys and pinball was like intimidating. And pinball... I always said that a lot, by the way. When I was a kid, pinball freaked me out. Yeah, it was really like intimidating. It was like the old guys played it and we were just like, we didn't get it.
    8:03
    And I think pinball really was as I came of age and I was doing video games and I would probably say maybe 2003, 2004 was, I mean, like, I had obviously played pinball, but really, like, I want to own a pinball machine or I could work on a pinball machine or what, where is pinball different than video games? And I was working at, I was working at an aquarium store and there was a theater of magic that was local. And I started playing that, and I got hooked, and that was kind of... Theater of Magic is when people say to me, like, what is the game, like, when it comes to pinball? Like, if you say video games, I'm going to say Dragon Slayer. And most people are going to say Dragon Slayer. When people ask me what's the game that really got me into pinball, it's going to be Theater of Magic. The gateway product. Yeah, it's going to be theater, and it's – to this day, I still have my theater. It would never leave. Every time I put it out to operate it, I regret it, and then I bring it home and go, it's never going out again.
    9:21
    So, yeah, I mean, that was – I would say the early 2000s, Dan, would definitely be the, you know, the kind of, like, I want to do pinball. I want to see what pinball is all about. yeah and I think the fact when a lot of us at least the old Sacramento scene like I was probably like 05 when I picked up my judge dread and then went to Pinnacle the next thing I knew I was hanging out with a bunch of degenerate our group yeah that's our crew so I mean that's kind of I don't think it was like I don't think I ever woke up one morning and was like I'm going to do pinball or you know I think it was always, the thing even to today is pinball is still kind of segregated from, like, video games. Like, even as an operator, I try to keep the pinball area with the pinballs and the video game area because it is a very different scene. And there are very few people that really embrace both. Either you're a pinball guy or you're a video game guy. And obviously, there's exceptions to that. Well, pinball's a little invasive, too. It is. Because I got into pinball coming from Maine. Yeah. When I was trying to buy parts for a Maine machine, I ended up buying a pinball machine. And the next thing that you knew, it was all pinball all the time. I have an arcade game. I have a dartboard. But largely, my collection is pinball, pinball, pinball. Yeah. It's just pinball has an art form to it. um all right you have a question yeah so i just want to make sure i clarify this correctly so you're saying jill that your first game was theater magic is that what you're no my first what was your first game my first game um that really got me hooked on him while playing on location um was theater magic where i really wanted to kind of dive into you know the pinball scene like what's pinball all about my first game i ever owned personally was a whirlwind nice whirlwind nice choice yeah whirlwind um and i i got it from a local guy um guy by the name of maverick i think he's still on the scene and um yeah and then a whirlwind you know was it was it was definitely before I was really playing pinball on location, but I enjoyed the game. I enjoyed the shots on the game. Obviously, it's a Pat Lawler game. I'm a big fan of his. Didn't really know back then. And then my next game really was like DMD era, which was Data East Star Wars. Okay. That's a good choice. Yeah, not bad, right?
    12:14
    And I still have it. So all these years later, I still have it. It's the first game I ever did a play field swap on. It's got a cruiseman play field. It's never been out on location.
    12:25
    And it's my baby. That's awesome. And now, just going back, because I did want to interrupt Dan with a question about Laserdisc, but were you also servicing games like Mad Dog McCree? That was one of my favorite Laserdisc games. I love that. Mad Dog is definitely at the tail end of Laserdisc. because it's full motion video. Right. Live action. I'm more, because I was a kid in the 80s, so I'm more anime-based, Laserdisc stuff. I was a Robotech and just all the anime stuff, all the Lupin series and all of that. So Dragon's Lair was really, I was a big Disney fan, And Dragon's Lair was, you know, Don Blues. Don Blues, yeah. He had done like The Secret of NIMH, which is like one of my favorite, you know, animated movies as a kid. Excellent movie. You know, so it was kind of, I think, Mark, by the time Mad Dog actually came out, that was kind of towards the end of even the arcades for me. Yeah, yeah. I was really looking at, like, early 90s American laser games and just wasn't – I actually have a fast draw showdown that I was thinking about possibly bringing into the play field location at some point down the road. Very cool. That's what I was thinking to myself. It just feels kind of, you know. The old blast. Yeah. High desert. Totally fits. Yeah. That is great. Yeah, I remember playing that. When you mentioned Tahoe, they had a Mad Dog McCree at Calneva. Yeah. And they also had a Bride of Pinbot, which is pretty ironic, in the same area. Right. And, yeah, I remember playing those. So that's really cool that you worked on Laserdisc. Now, did you work on Laserdisc Consumer or just the arcade part of it? Well, I can do pretty much Laserdisc stuff, like repair-wise. Got it. I can do anything, commercial players or, you know, home players. I kind of taught myself because by the time I was doing Laserdisc stuff, which was, you know, late 90s, early 2000s, there was nobody servicing Laserdisc. I mean, I can't say nobody. There was Duncan, which was, he was a guy named Duncan, and he did a Laserdisc repair up in Seattle. There was another guy, Franz, out of Tennessee. But a lot of these guys were just, like, old-timers that were retired. And I learned a lot from those guys, and I was one of the few guys that were still, you know, keeping this stuff alive. and so I had the ability to meet a lot of those old timers and those guys gave me like repair jigs and kind of taught myself. That's really cool. I'm an EDM technician in the arcade space. Yeah. There's a very specific OG example of like a guy who works on games as opposed to the rest of us who we can just sort of scrub our way through a shop job or play with a couple connectors. On that note, I have a Pioneer laser active in the grobs. It's dead as hell. And I could fix those later, too. Let me know if you've got time. That's funny you say that, Dan. I have a Pioneer. I'm not going to put that one down. Which you never do. Yeah. I mean, I think it was a lot of it is kind of getting into laser disc and getting into tech stuff and getting into repair. It's just kind of how my mind works. And, you know, I was talking to you, Mark, the other night, and we were talking about I was doing a dry to pinball play field swap. Yes. And it was my wife came in and my wife was just like, I don't even know how you do this. I would just like, I would run away and scream because there's so many parts and so many screws and you're just like methodically going from like one to the other. And it really is just the way my brain kind of works. And it's like, I tell people, you can't teach that. Like, it's almost like cathartically enjoyable when I'm doing it. And I'm not doing it like, I'm doing it like putting a puzzle together, whereas other people sees it like a box of screws and a box of wires, and oh, my God, this thing's never going to work again. Right. That's kind of where the Laserdisc thing came in. I was like, all right, you know, don't blind yourself. Don't look at the laser, but we can probably figure this out.
    17:24
    Right inside of it. I think part of being in a niche fandom is that you need to understand how to service the product. If you want to be a muscle car guy, you better know how to work on your muscle car. If you want to be a laser guy, you better have a lot of money. or if you're a Star Trek collector, you better know how to fix monitors and laser disc players. And if you want to be, you know, especially I think with the era that we got into, now you can get into pinball and buy brand new games and be kind of scrubby. And they're never going to break. But I think, or if they do break, they break minorly. My cousin Rose is completely dead now. He's going to be great.
    18:08
    Love you guys. Thanks for my Indian bracket. Not your fault. I want to edit that out whenever I get feedback from JJP again honestly it's just one of those things where it's like yeah generally the game won't fail if it fails it's fixable but back in the day when you were buying $800 games off location it was broken and Will was the one who broke it down for me he said look if you're going to own these things you better know how to work on them so I'll be soldering iron and swap that point Well, and I think that was a lot of transition for me with, like, I was in a, and this is, again, Dan, where you and me share some common stuff. I was a radio control guy as a kid. So, I mean, my, you know, I was doing radio control cars, you know, and helicopters and stuff in the early 80s where, you know, that's how I taught myself to solder. Yeah, because you had to build battery power. Yeah. You had to solder the wires onto the seat. Yeah. Right. All these crappy-ass Tamiya connectors for Dean's Clips. All of that. Right. And so that was very much the transition. So it wasn't like when I got into video games and film machines and stuff, I didn't need to teach myself, like, the basics of, like, how to slaughter. It was more like, okay, don't send 12-volt up the 110 rail. You know? Right.
    19:36
    Don't touch the anode on the CRT monitor. That would never happen. You know? It was a lot of that. But thankfully, I also got into an era where there was a lot of old-timers that were getting out, and they wanted to share their knowledge. And, you know, they were like, if we don't share with you guys, it's gone forever. So true. You know, so I'm very thankful of that. And that was something I've always said going forward is in all my years of doing it and all my different things that I've repaired and worked on and operated, I am the easiest guy to come up and talk to and say, hey, Joe, can you help me fix this? Because I still enjoy doing that. And I think if we don't teach the younger generation of people getting into it, then it becomes no different than the guys who taught me. And, you know, there's a lot of guys that are still doing it to this day that were mentors to me. So where did the turn happen between uber hobbyist, collector, player, and operator, businessman, magnet, pinball magnet? I would probably say maybe like 07, 08, and more the fact that the day that you used Star Wars, everyone got pinball and operator, my Star Wars got a stuck flipper coil. Energized it on, flippers locked on. I don't know what's going on. They're smoking the back box. The game's broken. And my day to day Star Wars was that broken for probably six months, maybe longer. And I was obviously still playing, you know, laser-disc stuff and video games were more my passion. And I hired a tech. And that tech came out and worked on the game for four hours, five hours. Wow. Changed the transistor, charged me three, four hundred bucks. game lasted a month. I won't say who this tech is.
    21:58
    But you do know who this tech is. But I'm not selling anybody down the river. And, you know, I don't know. I paid him $300, $400. You know, we're talking 15, 20 years ago. And it didn't last very long, and it blew up again. And he said, well, none of my work's warrantied. and that I said, I can do this, and I can learn to fix this. And that's kind of where learning to read schematics, getting online, not like we have the ability to get online now. This is in like Pin Wiki's infancy. Right, sure. And, you know, meeting guys like Rob Anthony and things like that, guys that have been doing it a long time. those were the guys that led me into the right direction. And then meeting guys like Clay Calgill, who owns Ground Control, first, you know, barcade. And those guys really pushed me in the sense of you can be a good tech, like have faith in yourself, fix this stuff. And then I think that kind of transitioned to I fixed a bunch of stuff. And then you guys, you local guys, were like, Angel, can you fix this? And I was like, yeah, I can do that. And then that kind of turned into, well, maybe operating. And I was definitely way more of a repair guy than I ever was an operator in the beginning. It was more a tech. It was more going to, you know, California Extreme, talking to TJ, you know, Scott Evans. guys like that and then those guys really say to me you're good tech like you know what you're doing you know you're you're you're asking the right questions and then you're learning and then that just kind of transitioned into you know getting the job at coin op in 2013 and just kind of the operating side of things and then that here we are you know 12 years later and right so you kind of went from being a part of that business you know then you transitioned into this is your own yeah this is this is your right so now you're going out of just being an operator and owner and hospitality. And I think it's a lot of, like, if you really, it's ironic the way that things kind of work out in the big scheme of things. So my grandfather and my grandmother and my great uncle, they were all in the liquor business in San Francisco. And so they all owned liquor stores. And my grandmother was the accountant for Golden Brands, which is a big liquor distributor that sells a lot of the booze to a lot of, you know, the bars and the supermarkets and things like that. Well, my mom had shown me a picture of one of my grandfather's liquor stores. And this was like right after Prohibition. And ironically, he ran pinball machines in the liquor store. and so maybe it's genetics maybe it's in my blood i don't know it's a circle but it's a big it is a circle yeah and yeah you're making full circle and getting in there you know beer and wine and you know cocktails and spirits i grew up around that i mean they were you know when i was a kid and you know going to my grandparents house it was there was booze everywhere there was cases There's a liquor everywhere. There was, you know, that was just going to the liquor store, you know, in downtown San Francisco was just kind of going to get a candy bar, right?
    26:05
    You're in the business. Yeah. You're going to go stock up. Yeah. That was kind of how it all transitioned into me doing it on my own. me, you know, saying, you know, hospitality and really recognizing the side of being an operator, but also understanding that the games, and this is something a lot of people don't like to hear, it's the gimmick. It's the gimmick to what you're trying to be profitable. And that That kind of goes into where people ask me, and we can definitely talk about this, but, you know, the value of games. What do you buy? What don't you buy? Where do I make a decision on what I operate, what I don't operate? And I think that really you have to focus on the hospitality side. So you're getting a little ahead. No, I'm not. But we are going to cover this because Spencer is dying. Yeah. You know, we've talked about this a lot. Why don't we use the transition? Yeah, let me ask one more transitional question because I want to get into, let's talk about play field sports and games. Okay. Yes. We told everyone this opening. What is going, here's the thing, anyone who listens to our show knows that we wax poetic about the Reno pinball scene, which is insanely awesome. You can go to that place down here. We need it. Yeah, they'll come up there where they have, like, five good places to play pinball already. But, you know, right? You're going to come up. Of course. Mark's happy. It's not that great. Mark is another first-down league nice tournament.
    27:56
    You know, meanwhile, I've got to go all the way back to the flip room. You know, Elk Grove needs a pinball arcade. Yeah. You're like, well, open it, slacker. Oh, my God.
    28:04
    So, what? Why? You want to know why I went to Reno? No, no, no. I know why you went to Reno. Right. What is Playfield Sports and Games going to bring to the table that none of these awesome pinball locations in Reno do? Well, okay. So I think the goal of Playfield Sports and Games, and when somebody asked me the other day, they said, what do you do for a living? And I can sum it up in one word, in a couple words. I sell nostalgia. That's what I do. um so when I say I sell nostalgia I think where we are different is I don't want to be the pinball spot because I want a good pinball scene but I don't want to be known as just the pinball spot so like for Reno I look at like Prescott's a great spot that's where everybody goes, that's where the tournaments are, that's, they're known to be, you know, the pinball spot. And where, what I wanted to do a little bit different was I wanted to be the spot that really hit on all levels of nostalgia. So I didn't want to focus on video games, or I didn't want to focus on just pinball or I didn't want to focus on just the bar program. I wanted to focus on everything. So the way that I really envisioned it and wanted to incorporate it in when I talk about nostalgia was I really wanted to bring in like the food program. Like if we think back to childhood and we think about like what was like a fun, you know, night if you were having a game night with your mom and dad or your brothers and sisters, what fun food item would be there? Probably mac and cheese. Mac and cheese was a big one. Pizza pockets. So I think a lot of it, like I really was into like Jell-O pudding pops. Like why can't we get Jell-O pudding pops anymore? Oh, you screwed that up. Like Bill screwed that up, but it's like, why don't we do something on that? And so that really was where what I wanted to bring with Playfield Sports and Games, I wanted to really encompass that side of my spot where it wasn't just one thing. It was all of it. So the pinball side of things is going to be amazing. We're bringing in Mike Lafreda, a local guy who's going to do all our IFPA tournaments.
    30:49
    And the pinball side is really going to be focused on the tournament side because I'm going to give the reins to Mike. Right. Where if I'm trying to do it, I'm trying to keep the games running, I'm trying to run the tournaments, I'm trying to run the bar, it doesn't work. No, no, no. Clearly you're not going to be the one running. But I think that really transitions into, like, we want to be the focus of, I don't want to be a sports bar, right? But I want to make sure that people recognize the fact that, like, when I say sports, we're in the Tahoe Basin. So it's extreme sports. It's snowboarding. It's skiing. It's mountain biking. I want to make sure that, you know, we're focusing on those people as well. So, like, when I'm going to put – we're going to do a bunch of stuff, like, on the walls. And I'm going to put, like, snowboards on the walls. My general manager, Paige, her brother is a retired professional mountain biker. So he's going to send us like some forks and sign them and, you know, take a picture and we'll mount those on the wall. So we really want to make sure that people recognize the fact that it's not just really one aspect. It's going to be all facets of it. And it's really going to be focused on trying to hit on, you got UNR that's really close. We just sat down. We had a great meeting with the Reno Aces. So the ballpark is not even half a block from where we are. Right there. We're going to work with them. Right there. You know, we got the dispensary. They want to do some stuff with us. So I really. I'm sure they do. I really do. I do, and I'm good for that. Where else are you going to go when you're stoned? I'm like, well, you know what? Having been to your house and in your environment, I will say that I have supreme confidence that when it comes to nostalgia, that your place is going to have an air of authenticity that is completely unlike places that try to manufacture nostalgia. because you are very much a child of the 80s. And I'm still a kid. This cat's got a glass of slave cage full of Dukes of Hazzard toys. Every one of which I had as a kid and every one of which I can believe you told me about. Yeah, well... Oh, yeah.
    33:29
    It was, you know, it was wrist racers. Wrist racers. Wrist racers, yeah. I think that's really why that goes really back to, like, my love of Disneyland. And that was something that, as a kid, my dad used to say, we're not going to go to, you know, a crappy little theme park. We'll do a big summer trip to Disneyland. And he was all about the, you know, the queue lines, the experience, the walking in. And I think that's what makes a space amazing.
    34:07
    And that's, like, I said to Paige, who's my general manager, I said, I want to put fans on the ceiling in the game room, and I want to go get gremlins, like the full-size gremlins, hang them on the fans so they're spinning on the fans. Oh, that's brilliant. You know, so I think that's where, like, what do we bring and what do we want to bring? We want to bring a whole package. And I don't want to be, you know, I don't want pinball to be just one little spot of, you know, let's go there and go drinking. I want people to come in and go, wow, you know, did you go in the bathroom and see that? Or did you go on the upper deck and see this? And then you have the great experience of great games and pinball and video games, and you've got the food. And, you know, I had somebody come in, and I gave them a sneak preview, and they saw Missile Command. And this guy told me a story about Missile Command and about how it was the first girl that he ever dated that he fell in love with, and they used to go to the arcade and play Missile Command. And this story went on for a good 25 minutes, and you could see, like, the glimmer of, like, nostalgia and him almost going back and feeling like he was 16 again. And all he was doing was talking about it. The thing wasn't even plugged in. He wasn't playing it. He wasn't doing anything. So if the experience, if I can bring that experience to play field sports and games, then I've done my job. Then I've created the environment and the vision that's in my head. So and that's what I tell people about operating is, you know, anybody can go get a bunch of investors and get a bunch of money and buy a bunch of stuff and get a liquor license and throw it in a row. but you have to really like you said Dan I'm still a kid of the 80s and you ought to be there and like I work with a lot of 20 somethings and I've worked with a lot of 20 somethings and they ask me that like what was it like to be there and I'm the first thing I say to them is well we were just bored guys it was really good and it was awesome and I get all the stuff about it but We have our bikes, we have our skateboards, and we have the arcade. That's right. And, you know, go get some candy and, you know, and sprinklers and stuff like that. So I think the experience that I want to make Playbill Sports and Games is the experience that I used to get going to Disneyland. And that's the escape. So you're leaving the real world. and if you're in there for two hours and you feel like it's 1987 again, we've done our job. Sounds like I'll be going there a lot.
    37:18
    Totally. Whatever grand openings and stuff you do, I'll definitely make the trip. Absolutely. You know, and that's going to be awesome because, again, you know, this is going to be, it's not just a business for you. No. It's a labor of love. Yeah. And I know that, you know, the moment that you told me, you're like, dude, I'm fucking doing this. I was like, this is awesome because I know that in your heart, this is what you wanted the whole time. For a long time. You know, you want to have this environment that you can share your passion and your love for this era and these games and these materials for people, hopefully in exchange for some of their money. Yeah. Well, we do that. We do some of that. We money. We do. Yeah. And, yeah, and I think that's the goal. And I think that's the goal at the end of the day. And, Mark, I told you this, and I've reached out to everybody in Reno and Cody and Jim and Teddy and, you know, Mike Huntsman and all the Reno crowd. There was never an intention of me coming in and trying to steal business from anybody. It was just, let's make another rad spot. Absolutely. And the Reno scene is amazing, and everybody has embraced me. Everybody's reached out privately and wished me the best of luck. And I couldn't – I'm going to stress this, and then we can move on, but I would never have done this without my team. You're only as strong as your team. And, yes, I'm very passionate, but I couldn't have done it without Paige and Nate. They've been amazing. Yeah, you can't do it alone. You can't do it alone. So coming back around to the money. The money. A question that we had about your games. Are they going to work on coins, tokens, cards? What is your, you know, super nostalgic way of putting credits on a game? My preference. It'll never be cards You heard the man It will never be cards I think cards are very I think it's cold If I could put it in any word I think it's very cold I think it's very just sterile The one thing I don't Like about cards I've never liked it about it Going back to the 90s And the beginnings of David Busters and card systems You don't know how much you're paying You have no idea what you're paying and I think that is lame um I think the the goal to be a successful bar arcade or whatever term you want to call it I think is make people feel like they're not getting ripped off like they're not logging up and they put five dollars in a game and it lasted 30 seconds because I was there with Dragon's Lair. So were a lot of you. The first 50 cent game. And in the beginning, I can tell you I lost a lot of 50 cents real, real quick. And, you know, I lost 50 cents. And, you know, back in the day, you know, I made $3 a week for allowance. So, you know, it wasn't a lot. And, you know, I remember taking my dad's change off his nightstand. He'd be like, what are you doing with all those quarters? And, you know, and so I think that is my big thing when it comes to why I would never do a card system. Because you don't know what you're paying. And everybody wants to know. I want to know how much I'm going to put in the game. I want to know if it was worth it.
    41:01
    Tokens I like. My big thing with tokens is we talk about the money. you're going to buy a token. So a token is going to cost you four to six cents per token. That's going to take away from your bottom line. So I'm a quarter guy. I will always be a quarter guy. My license plate says quarter drop. I was going to mention that. Even when this came up as a perspective question, I'm like, dude, the guy's license plate says quarter drop. Yeah. the coolest part about reliving the arcade is the fact to go to the chain machine and put a five dollar bill in and get 20 quarters and scoop them out and walk to a machine and even if the machine eats your money and you push the coin return and it comes back that's that's what it was all about So if I'm selling nostalgia and I'm selling nostalgia to somebody who's 28 who was not there in 1984, but they want to relive it, I'm not going to give them a card. I want them to feel what it was like. That being said, I know why a lot of people go to Card Swipe, because quarter drop and token drop is mechanical. We all know pinball. We all know what... And arcades. And coin mess. And coin mess and all of that. So that really encompasses back to where's the money? Where do you make the money? Where does it equal out? Is it worth it to run it on quarterbacks? Is it worth the labor? Is it worth the checks? And I think that really goes back to what are you trying to do? Or is it your passion? Like you said, Dan, it's my passion. I'm passionate. When I get to work, I want to check my games. I want to turn my games on. I want to hear the quarters drop and look up on the screen and see the credit come up. Because what I love, that's where my passion is. Well, if you're just somebody that's opening one of these places to buck the trend and make a bunch of money and you didn't live it, then, yeah, there is no tie to that. And so you going to do the easiest thing to be profitable for yourself Well I think when you running a certain type of arcade like a Mega Arcade a Dave Buster a card system makes sense Yeah. But, you know, when you're running, you know, a nostalgia-based game room where you're going to be running classic games, yeah, there's nothing to replace the feeling of a pocket full of real quarters. If I can have a suggestion, you've got to have the quarter holsters too. Yeah, I was just thinking that. The quarter holsters, I definitely, if we hadn't attended, it would definitely be there. I will tell you that we are going to do the little jelly pouches where you squeeze them and, you know, there's quarters inside. We'll probably do those and we'll, you know, we'll do them with like two bucks and quarters inside. Nice. You know, you buy it for $3 or whatever, and it's got two orders, and it's got our name on the front of it and stuff like that. Oh, yeah, the name. Name of the dress, over. Yeah, so, I mean, I think. Maybe a fun slogan. Yeah, maybe. You know, I think all of that stuff is the things that we miss. I think, like, we miss all the things of our childhood and all the things of our youth. And if you can bring it back to a point where it's not ridiculously expensive, like somebody asked me the other day, would I get a Mold-O-Rama? The old, you know, mold, you know. Oh, yeah. They were at Disneyland and they made like a figure. And I said, I love the Mold-O-Rama, but it would cost $12,000. I'm not going to be honest. We're going to spend $12,000. We're not going to spend it on that. Rock of Fire. No. Yeah, well, we could have an entire podcast about animatronics because that's definitely – it's one thing that I'll tell you that, like, there are a couple bar arcades that I absolutely look up to, and I think they do it better than anybody, and one is Logan in Chicago. Logan's awesome. Rockafire animatronic band and they re-theme it and I think it's absolutely perfect. So, yeah. When we do that, we have to bring Brian in because Brian will get off on that above all others.
    46:11
    Animatronics are definitely another thing, another passion of mine. So, real quick. I was just last month, I was at the Denver. You were sober, but the questions are flowing so easy.
    46:22
    I know. So, I was up at Denver Me and the boys actually went up for a model railroad show. Okay. Yeah, give me another hobby that I can spend every penny I have on. Yeah, I would be excited. Yeah, because it was real cool. So we went over to the 1UP Arcade in Westminster.
    46:45
    It was fairly close. There's a lot of good arcades in the Marino area I want to eventually hit. So we checked this one out, and they run on tokens. And that was real nice. I really enjoyed that. And the boys had a good time, and I pointed out a lot of old video games. They had Operation Wolf. I haven't seen one of those in years. And they had, you know, Defender, Robotron, RootBit Tapper. They had a nice selection of classic video games, mostly from the 80s, some from the early 90s. And they had probably the oldest pinball machine they had was maybe like a Shadow,
    47:18
    which is great that they had a Shadow. And all their games were kept up. They were really nice. But what impressed me most is they have the change machine with the tokens and the little plastic cups, you know, like the little beer cups or whatever you get your. And that's what we did. So, I mean, the boys got our cups, we got our tokens, and we played pinball. We played some video games. They had bubble hockey, which I love. And it was a real good experience. And, you know, where the boys get to see, you know, kind of, oh, okay, this is kind of what it was like. Except, yeah, we didn't have bars, man. And we just, you know, we didn't have alcohol in any of our arcades. We had, like, hot dogs on the Coke machine or, you know, fountains. Oh, you had alcohol in the pills. You just didn't know. Oh, well, yeah. They were there. But, I mean. Nobody was drinking here. But, I mean. Come on, man. You live in Oroville. And we talked about, you know, booze and games. I mean, I'll tell you some of the best arcades that I went to growing up. Bowling alleys. Yes. Correct.
    48:22
    Some of the best arcades were in bowling. Oh, CPL was the king. It was the king. I mean. I think the Sacramento had an arcade that would rival Country Club like. I mean, I had Westlake Bowl, and, I mean, my dad bowled on a league, and, I mean, Tuesday night, like, I was in the arcade playing, you know, Atari Star Wars for hours. You know exactly where I got started, too, was my family, they were leaf bowlers. I'd get a couple dollars in quarters. Yeah. And, yeah, it was always Star Wars, the arcade game. Yep. A lot of it was because I could get through a few waves. Yeah, and you could last one quarter. Yeah, you're like Popeye or something. You get nasty. Yep. But Star Wars. Popeye, oh, God. You were going to at least pull the desk around once. You were going to get to the surface run where you're trying to shoot the towers. Yep. And then, oh, no, I've lost our two again. And you're not. That was the end of that. So, yeah, I mean, I think nostalgia is key. And, I mean, John, who, you know, owns the one-up, you know, him and his partner, they do a really good job. And I've known John at City for years.
    49:34
    I think they just opened their fourth one. I remember when he just had the first one, the one that's next to the ballpark. and it's just he does it right because he very much is like I am. He was there. He was there in the 80s. He grew up at the arcades. He still believes in that nostalgia and I think one of the biggest things for me is that I did like when you hit it on the head Spencer when you said you brought the boys there you gave them you know you got the cup you had the quarters in there and you can give them a little bit of an idea of how it was when you were their age right and that that's hard to do today in the world there there's not a lot of places that you can say look this is how we did it 30 years ago or 40 years ago and and i think that's that again goes back to you are successful or you have the ability to be successful if you really believe in the concept and if you really truly believe in the concept the people that you are expecting to come they're gonna they're gonna feel that vibe they're gonna they're gonna pick up on that from you and And it's not just we're walking into a bar with a bunch of games.
    51:06
    So I have a question for you. So I know that you're saying you want to have it the 80s vibe, which is just totally awesome because we really don't have like an 80s-themed location here in Reno, so that's a first right there. But as far as pricing goes, are you going to be doing modern prices still for like pinball in this case, or are you going to lower it down to like 50 cents a game? What is your thoughts on that?
    51:34
    Pricing has always been for me, and this goes back to when all the years I was with Coin-Op and all the locations I built with them was pricing is what it is when it came out, is where it's always been for me. So, like, if Pac-Man was a quarter, Pac-Man is still a quarter. If, you know, like I operate at the Bike Dog Brewery here in Sacramento, and I've got Space Shuttle out there. Space Shuttle is quarter. I have GoldenEye out there. It's 50 cents.
    52:14
    So I have Star Dragon Batman. I think they're both 75 cents. And then I think you've got, you know, the newer Stern stuff is a dollar. But even at a dollar mark, I would never can like hold it at a dollar. So it's like if you want to play a new stern, I'm always going to be a dollar a play or three plays for two bucks. Or if it's something older, it'll be like 50 cents a play or six plays for two dollars. or so I always do it to where I feel it's equal to what it was when it came out. And then also if you're like, if you're going to log up and it's a new pinball machine. So like prime example, I log up and I see a new game that I haven't played and Dungeons and Dragons, let's say I'm, I'm not going to play one game on that. I don't even know like one game. I don't even know the shots. So give the person the ability, if they want to put three games on it, it's only going to cost them 65 cents a game versus a dollar. Because you're going to walk up, you're going to put that in there, you're going to learn it a little more than you put three more, you know, two more dollars, you get three more games, maybe you get a replay. Well, now really what's the new game cost you? 50 cents?
    53:42
    So true. I like that philosophy, yeah. Yeah, I really like that answer. Great answer. Yeah, they lost what they cost when they were new. Because it does make sense in a way that it's just like, you know, would I want to go into an arcade and pay a buck to play Addams Family? Yeah. No. And I would completely understand that for an operator these days. You know, Addams Family is not a cheap game to operate. No. It is a game that takes a lot of maintenance. Yep. You know, it's not, you know, it's not all the stuff Bulletproof because it's from 1992. In fact, it probably takes more, but it is kind of cool to think that it's just like, hey, yeah, I'm going to pay 50 cents. I have a chance to get a replay. You know, that's pretty cool. And I think that also goes back to. That's pinball. Well, I think that's pinball, but it also goes back to, like, your settings. Like, I'm a big fan of going in and tweaking settings. on games. So that doesn't mean that I'm going to make the game more difficult or I'm going to make the game more easy, but I'm going to make the game the most enjoyable it can be for the person who's putting the money in. And so like, if you go and you leave factory settings on theater magic, perfect example. I learned this when I first started operating theater. If you're a good player, you will rack up like nine credits on that game in like 10 minutes. You will walk away from that game and there will be 12 credits on and you put a dollar in it. So that obviously is not going to be profitable for the operator. So, but that doesn't mean that you're going to make it so difficult that somebody is going to come and you're going to make the tilt super hard and they're going to be miserable and it's going to steal their money. I think that's where you really have to focus on knowing the games and knowing the location, knowing the clientele, knowing your demographic.
    55:53
    And, again, that's definitely the attitude of somebody who, like we said earlier, it's a passion project. I mean, don't get me wrong. there would be more money in a buck a play, no replays, no matches, and making these games backwards. Sure. But I like the answer that the goal, you know, because the games is a gimmick, the goal is to make them enjoyable. Right. To make them so that they're fun. I think a lot of pinball aficionados, even pinball aficionados that I hang out with, they just love to make their games hard as balls. Oh, yeah. Like it makes them better players or it makes them better men or something, and you know who I'm talking to if you're listening to this. And I love you, though. Thank you for having me over to your house. And... Okay. But, like, legitimately, if you want to throw that goddamn game down the driveway. Well, and I think, again, you... Yeah, and... Give me a chance. Just give me a chance. I don't need a win button. I just need a chance. I need a chance. Yeah, well, and I think that, again, is you've got to take away from the fact of like, who are you? Who are you catering to? Like, yeah, we're playing in league, or it's all a bunch of us, and we all are really good pinball players, then yeah, I don't really think we should play Boston Space on easy. And, you know, I'm doing league things. Probably. That's not a good idea. Only if you want people to be at your house. Yeah. No, that's pretty good. Yeah, like, you know, so. Right. I think it's things like that, but I also think it's also have a wide variety of games. So you, you know, can cater to all those people. The other big thing, too, is be on your floor. Engage with your customers. That is really big. Like, in all the years that I've been in hospitality, that I've been in bar arcades and all of that, talk to people. You know, I mean, I tell myself all the time, I remember the first time I walked into a bar or I remember the first time I, you know, was intimidated by pinball. Put yourself into that person and try to be welcoming. And that really opens the door up for the engagement and then they become your customer for life because you really taught them, you know, not the snobby side of it, but the, hey, it's fun. We're all here because we're all friends. And it's all about getting together. And, you know, so I think there's a lot of ways to look at it and a lot of ways to be successful. and it doesn't necessarily mean, like you said, the guy who's out there putting in a dollar, no replays, that's not bad too. You're going to make money too. Trying to make money on your game, if that's what you're concerned. If that's your primary objective, exactly. And I really like that, that you're doing the $2 for three credits. That's really nice that you do that. I like that. That's a great pricing structure because you're right. That is a perfect example of somebody who's not familiar with a game, puts in $2 and at least you have $3 and there is a high probability you could get a replay after you get to know the game. Yeah. So that's good. I like that. And on top of it, you want to have the plethora of different style games and different value games because not everybody wants to come in and put a dollar in a pinball machine. But somebody might want to come in and play pinball and give them the option that we have a 25 set or a 50 set pinball. Mm-hmm. Correct. That's huge. That is huge. Now, for the pinball listeners out there, how many machines are you planning on having over, as far as pinball goes, over at Playfield Sports and Games? We're going to open with 15 is what we're going to open with. And, you know, I could see topping out close to 20. I don't think we'll ever go above 20 because, obviously, I want to make sure that I've got a lot of other stuff. and I don't want to just be pinball heavy because we do have a lot of other pinball spots. And I think one of the big things that like when you and me were talking the other day, Mark, and we were going through and we were looking at games, the number one goal is not to put the same games out that everybody else has out. Exactly. Originally, I was going to put D&D out and then there's four D&Ds, you know, within 10 miles. We don't need another D&D. Let's put something else out that's not out there. And the other thing is a lot of older games, you know, there's a lot of new pinball players, and pinball has gotten really hot. And you can go back and you can pull a game that's 10 years old and put it out and be just as profitable with that game than a brand-new game because if your clientele is younger, is newer, they might find the 10-year-old game equally as enjoyable as something brand-new. Oh, we've talked a lot of times about the Addams Family. Still have.
    61:23
    Attacks on Mars. Medieval Madness. Terminator 2. Yeah. What's your oldest game going to be, and what's your newest game going to be when you grand open?
    61:36
    Newest? Okay. Oldest game is GoldenEye. Sega. GoldenEye. I may do something in the System 9, System 11 era.
    61:53
    If I find something, maybe a Golden State. I've got some pinballs that I'm going to come and sell at Golden State that I'd be open for maybe some trade stuff.
    62:06
    I would love a radical for location. I think that would be a really fun one to put out. For an 80s arcade, it would be a very suitable choice. I think that would be a good one. Very wise. Another one, if I was going to go with something older that I like, is Godly Wipeout. Yes. I think that would fit the theme on an older side. I just did the Bride of Pinbot Playfield swap. It doesn't necessarily need to stay at home, so maybe do that on that. And the newest game that's out there right now that's going to be in there, I'm trying to think. what I might... Well, I don't know. Time frame, we probably won't hit on this. I am going to get a Harry Potter standard. So that'll probably be on the new... The arcade edition. Is probably what we'll do.
    63:13
    You know, I mean, I don't know if I have anything new new. Stranger Things has never... I've never operated that. So I did bring the Stranger Things Premium. up there. I brought my Godzilla LE that was at my house.
    63:30
    That one's out there. I like King Kong. I don't want to say we're going to get it. I would like to play it, but I could see King Kong going out there. I'm a huge King Kong fan of the scene. I love King Kong games, as I think we all do. so we're working towards that we're working towards Spencer's question yes we are before we get to that there's another question I want to ask well before that do you still have your Sega Godzilla and will you put that on location again I do have my Sega Godzilla it will be at Golden State like it is every year location it has been out. I would not be opposed to putting it back out. I think it's all going to be, you know, we're going to play the rotation game on, you know, what does well, what people want to see. I think the biggest thing is really what I touched on before. I want to have as many different games as I can versus what everybody else has. I mean, the other spot I forgot to mention was the incline Village Pinball guys.
    64:51
    Incline to play. Yeah, I really want to go. Shannon's been trying to get me to go hang out with those guys. I grew up in Incline. I lived in Incline. I would love to go play with those guys at some point. Obviously, being able to go out and play and do tournaments and leagues and all of that has been really hard for me the last four months because we've been building this place. Of course. You don't ever see Sega Godzilla. You don't.
    65:20
    You only make like $700 or $800. Only in museums you see them. It's usually unusual. But I think it's something cool. Like, I've got GoldenEye and I've got James Bond.
    65:30
    Sure. James Bond out at Playfield Sports, and I don't think you're going to see that, you know, too often. No, and GoldenEye is a great game. That's a fun Sega game. It's an awesome movie. It's one of my favorites. Yeah, it's a great movie. at Bite Dog Growing, and it does really well there. People love it. That's awesome. Yeah, I love it how that magnet, you know, just grabs the ball out of the air because it thinks so powerful. Yeah, it's really cool. So last question, and then I'll have Spencer's question. I know that you commute back and forth. How can you guarantee those games are going to be working basically on a daily basis with you being gone or with you commuting three times a week? Are you, is that going to be like your major focus like once a week to get all those games up to par? And then, because I know things can happen and stuff like that, but how's that going to work like for people, you know, that are real pinball diehards? How can we be guaranteed that the games are going to work on a daily basis as much as possible when we have tournaments and stuff like that? Oh, great question. I think the goal is always going to be to check games before you open. So that's going to be the number one for me, and that's something that I've always done regardless. We're open six days a week, so we are closed on Monday. I am on site four of the six days, and I do have an on-site tech that will be there when I'm not there. Obviously, games break. There's not a whole lot you can do about that. What I will say is I am not a fan of repairing during operation. Now, that does not mean like a slingshot rubber breaks and we're not going to shut the game down for five minutes, go get a slingshot rubber, change it out, game's back. But if we blow a transistor and a coil locks on, that game, if it happens on a Saturday, the game's probably not going to get looked at until Monday. And the game will be off. The big thing that I implemented here that I really didn't have the ability to implement when I was working for some other people was I had a QR portal. So my QR portal is basically a scan that's on the games. If a game's got an issue, you scan it. It sends you to a repair portal. The repair portal goes right to my phone, alerts me what game is down, and then that would be on my repair schedule for the following day. In regards to, you know, games breaking, my biggest thing that I've always been a proponent for, and I've always said this as an operator, don't wait for something to break. Be proactive. So the way that I've always done it, and obviously when we were at the prior location, I was juggling a bunch of other stuff, but the way that is the ideal way to repair or to avoid catastrophic failure is always going to be do proactive. If I look at repairing or rebuilding flippers, if I go through and I say these flippers have 1,000 plays on them or 5,000 plays on them, I'm not going to wait for the flipper to get sticky and the paw to wear out or the flipper sleeve to crack. I'm going to go in and I'm going to go, we're getting there. So I'm going to go through, and I might take a day, and I might do all my scrims on Flipper Rebuilds. And I'm not doing them because they're creating an issue. I'm doing them because I know they've got 5,000 plays, and I know that once, you know, Star Wars gets the right sticky Flipper, guess what's next? You know, the Sopranos is going to have a sticky Flipper. So be proactive, and that's what I've always focused on. Playing the games daily is a big one for me, and relying on my patrons to tell me what's going on.
    70:14
    I'm going to play them. I'm an avid pinball player. That just doesn't go for pinball. That goes for the video games. That goes for anything mechanical across the board. And that is our goal throughout the whole company is be proactive. I told we just hired kitchen people. I told them the same thing. Don't wait for your deep fryers to get nasty. If you know that we're going to change the oil at 20 hours, we should change them in 15 hours. I said the same thing at the bar. so the goal with this place is the focus even though I say that the games are the gimmick all departments are going to be equal in regards to the maintenance in regards to how we look at things I want the bar side I want the kitchen side and I want the game side all to be running at 100% as much of the time as I possibly can and the big thing for me is no more than two or three games down at any given period. That's a great goal. I don't like broken games on the floor. I don't like the look of it. I don't like things like marquee lights out, coin door lights out. I'm a stickler for those little things.
    71:43
    And so, I mean, those, you know, can I guarantee games are going to all be perfect all the time? No. Can I guarantee you that games aren't going to break? No. What I can guarantee you is that I'm going to be on them because I tell anybody that works for me as a tech or I've trained, the number one thing before you open the doors when you're checking games is, would you feel comfortable putting your own money in that game? If the answer is yes, then the game floor is ready to go. If the answer is no, then turn the game off and address it, and we'll figure it out. If we're waiting on parts, get the game in the back of house. Nobody wants to see a broken game. Nobody wants to play a broken game. So that's my view of, you know, operating and, you know, maintenance side, and then, you know, the unfortunate event of games do break. So I really like that you said that you have a tech when you're not there. That really gives a peace of mind for all those pinball players. Yeah. That didn't – did not – at first we frequented the location for the first, you know, first year or so, and then the games just kind of didn't – there wasn't much change to it. And I know that was out of your control. There were some situations with that. Right. And it's really nice and assuring to hear that for people who love pinball and who are used to high standards, having those games work that are tournament ready and knowing that the issues that we've experienced before where those things have not been resolved, it's really nice to hear that you want to be proactive and it's really nice to hear that somebody is going to be there, you or the other person throughout the times when you're open, which is really awesome to hear. Yeah, and that was, you know, Mike Lafredo is going to do all our tournaments. Yeah. That was one of the big things that, you know, me and Mike talked about, and I was very, you know, first thing I said, do you want to work on the games? And he said, I'm not a Jack. But he did, he was very, you know, we sat down, we were both very much on the same page that, you know, he would go through, he would give me a report after a tournament, and then I would get that via email or via the QR portal, and then I would address it as, you know, need be. So I don't, I think, Mark, the biggest thing with addressing issues is communication. Yes. And it's communication between the player and the operator, location, owner, however you want to, you know, look at it. But I think it's all that you have to remember that it's the entirety of the business. So the entirety of the business is not just competitive pinball. It's not just selling, you know, tequila shots. It's not just selling mac and cheese bowls. It's all of it. So it's one of those things where we got to run it. We have to see how the floor is going to run. A lot of the games that are out there are different games than I had at Playfield 76.
    75:18
    Playfield 76 was really difficult to be able to be the tech, you know, be the general manager, you know keep keep the bar running get rid of you know try to figure out why you know the owners are not making money there was there was a lot more involved but when i showed up at playfield 76 the last operators had done nothing and the games were i mean i'll leave it at this i've never used an entire magic eraser to get down the playfield art to where I could actually see the art. And that's how bad the games were from the last operator. Now, did we have issues as well? Yeah, 100%. But we had a lot of those issues because it wasn't my location. I was thrown into the fire.
    76:21
    And I think I was very communicative with everybody. And I think I told everybody, you know, where the situation was, where we were going, what the goal was at the new location. And when I was in, you know, quite up Sacramento, we had, you know, I would say majority positive feedback on that game floor. So, you know, you're not going to please everybody. Sure, of course. There's no way you can do that. I tell, I've built staff and owners this for years, you're going to get bad yelp reviews, you're going to get people that are having a bad day, do your best, you know, go out there, put the time, put the effort in, and, you know, if you need help, bring the help in that you need, Or if you've got too many, you know, I'm very, very humble, and I'm okay to turn around and say, okay, we've got 17 pinball machines, and we can't keep up with the maintenance. I'd rather have 12 pinball machines, and they're all awesome than 17, and they're all running half-assed. So, you know, I'm okay to go in and change things. and it's not, it's definitely not about quantity. It's about the quality, and that's across the board. That's not just the games. That's everything. And what it sounds like, too, is that this new experience, this new location that you have, this new partnership with all the people that work for you, you're not in it alone. It just seems like you're in it alone at the other location, and it's really nice to hear that you have a team, a teamwork. You have collaboration that's happening, and that really sounds great. And I really like what you said a while back where you want to welcome people. You want to say, hey, you know, oh, I'm so glad you came out here. Oh, you're new to pinball? Come on over here. That's what I do. That's my job. That's what I do. I go and I recruit people out, you know, when I go to my church or I go out to my schools and stuff. I'm always telling everybody about pinball, and that's why they nicknamed me the ambassador because I love to share my passion with everybody. And having that when people walk into your establishment is really awesome because they're going to want to come back, and it's going to build that community, which is awesome. Yeah, and I think that, to piggyback on that, is something that I have said to every staff member and everybody that's ever worked for me or I've ever worked with is that your locals are always going to come, okay? Your locals are always going to walk in. They know what they're going to get. You know, it's like cheers, right? Hi, Norm. You know, they know you. You've got to open your doors every day thinking that somebody is walking into your establishment for the first time. and you have to give, you have to make a good first impression the first time. And you know what? That doesn't mean that you're going to make a bad impression if one or two games is broken. If you got a CRT monitor on a video game that blows up, well, there's nothing you can do. Okay, I'll fix it. It'll be back. I'll get it running. But you can always greet somebody. You can always say, you know, hi, guys, welcome. You know, have you ever been in before? This is what we're all about. You know, kind of give them a feel at the door. Make them feel warm and comfortable. Nobody wants to feel like you're walking into a bar and everybody's looking at you and you're the awkward one. Right. And that's what I want Playfield Sports and Games to be. Now, we are not kids. We are 21 and over at all times. There's other spots that kids can go play. But I want the adults that come to our establishment to feel like they've gone back to a piece of their childhood and make it a cool, fun date night and make it where they don't got to be with the kids. And it's just, you know, we're not out at a concert. We're not out, you know, at a winery. We're out doing something fun. And you can hear people talking because I know when we experienced the old location, the music was so loud you couldn't even talk to people and have a conversation. It's so nice to have it as background music instead of like being in a nightclub. And that was one of the big things that, you know, I had said to you that I wanted to recreate at Playfield Sports and Games, which was the pinball deck, which is what I have at the Sacramento coin-op location. So I got, you know, it's pinball in the back. It's got its own change machine. It's got its own ATM. It's got its own environment. And, you know, that's the goal. And that's the goal with the whole place is that, you know, I showed you the sneak peek of, you know, phase two. And there'll be some cool, fun stuff, you know, down there. But I think we want to make it so there's different areas that are a different experience. and you can have that fun environment where if you don't want the noisy front of the bar, you can go in the back or you don't want, you know, it's going to have that. So, yeah, I mean, I think like Dan said, this has been a passion of mine, but it's also been something that I've wanted to do for many years. And not that I didn't have a support system from the other places that I was involved with and the other locations that I built, but it was somebody else's money, and it was somebody else's idea, and it was somebody else's vision. And this is my vision. And this is, you know, I want to bring my vision to life, and I want to share it with you guys. Well, I can tell you from your vision and what you're saying is I'm extremely excited. I can't wait. I'm sharing it with everybody about the new location, and it's going to be a real hit, and I just want to wish you the best of success. Thank you for answering all my questions.
    82:53
    I'm going to give it back to Spencer now because I know he's dying to ask the question. But, yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything else I can think of. I don't think I have any other questions, so I'm going to have it handed off to Spencer because I know you want to ask that, Spencer. Yeah, well, it's something that we've talked about. in the past and said, oh, we want to talk about this on the show. So we've talked about value for the money in new games and price points. What point will it get to where you're just going to say, or operators in general, do you think are going to say, I can't buy new games anymore? You know, what point is that? Or does that happen? And how do you offset that? Okay, so I'm going to ask you to define your question a little more. And when you say, where does the line get drawn, are we answering this question just based on pinball, or are we answering this question based on operating amusement equipment?
    84:05
    That's great. I'm going to define it as, let's just go, we'll pick on the Stern Pro because I just bought a Dungeons & Dragons Pro. And I feel real good about the purchase because what's in that game in particular, in the value for the dollar, I feel real good about. Okay. So we're going to talk and we're going to go pinball. Yeah. I think the easiest way for me to answer from an operator-owner standpoint, you have to base it on theme. Theme is where I'm going to put it as number one. Okay, so just as Dan said, Guns N' Roses, J.J.P. doesn't work, right? Right.
    84:59
    One of my best earning pinballs of all time. All time. Wizard of Oz. Okay? That game printed more money than I can even tell you. That game was making money with one light board, no monkey working, no Christmas ball working still making money when you had it at Clinoff yeah I used to put money into it all the time because it was the only one on location I ran an Emerald City literally into the ground because that game I was in that game every day, three hours every day but the earnings on the weekend And it was out earning seven pinballs. Wow.
    85:59
    So, so theme is huge. Okay. Harry Potter. That thing's going to print money. We all know it is. Yeah. What's that? The Harry Potter. We all know it's going to print money. Okay. So no, 89, 89, 95. 9,000. 9,000 dollars. I heard it was 99, 95 for the arcade. I think it's 89. I think it's not. Well, whatever. Okay. Not your time. Maybe you got a deal. Okay, whatever. Not your time. Yeah.
    86:29
    That was like $7,000. $6,000, $7,000. I mean, in a world of $5,000 games. Not even $5,000. $4,000. Those were $4,000. Right. It was expensive. But it was worth it. Right. But where I'm going with this is Harry Potter. I'm 52 I've seen 30 minutes of movie number one right okay 30 minutes of movie number one I could care less about Harry Potter but Harry Potter and J.J.P. not a huge fan of their hardware okay gonna throw it out there not a big fan of it I want to tell them to stop working okay I mean I still have Wizard of Oz I still have Dialed In I want to buy Dance Pirates You know there all sorts of things I like about J but there is not one ounce of me that would not buy Harry Potter as an operator because the theme is going to hit on all levels. it's going to hit on the guy and his wife come in he might not like Harry Potter but she does so guess what they're playing Harry Potter that's where I stand on value now when you go to looking at Sir I don't know where the line gets drawn to say enough is enough What I will say to you is that I was one of the few operators in the country that ran LEs, and I still run LEs. Like, the last LE I bought was James Bond, okay? The reason that I ran LEs was because LEs came out before premiums. So you had all your guys or girls that were going to get a premium, but they only saw pros on location. Well, LEs come out before the premiums, so now everybody that's got a premium on order wants to see what they've got on order. Well, they can go play Joe's LE on location.
    89:05
    That's why we're going to put LEs out. But when LEs start rivaling used cars. And used cars. They're like $12,000, $13,000. But on top of that, the themes aren't that great. That's where I think you have to look and go, enough is enough. that's where I think you have to dial it back and you have to say well if the theme's good and the theme's going to earn premium works for me I've never personally been a pro guy and I think I've got nothing against pros but I was always the operator and I always have the operator mentality of this if I like a game, that game, I'm going to operate that game, and eventually that game will probably retire in my home game room. I want the full package. I want everything that's in that game. If I go out and I buy a game and I know that I'm going to retire it into my game room, as an operator, a lot of the times, majority of the time, what I'm going to do is I'm going to buy an extra playfield, blank, when I buy the game, and I'm going to buy a plastic set.
    90:44
    So I'm going to operate it. I'm going to run it. I'm going to make a ton of money on it. And then if I want to retire at home, I'll take that playfield and that plastic set that's got 10,000 plays on it, do a playfield swap, put it in my game room, and now I've got a relatively new game again.
    91:05
    I think you've got to really base it on what I said earlier. Because you've got a lot of new pinball players, you don't need the newest and the shiniest to draw players in.
    91:27
    I think you can, if you've been doing it long enough, You have enough games and enough equipment in your stable that you have the ability to rotate. Now, when I say that, I'm a different example than a lot of your newer operators. And I'll use the example of my friend Adam, who owns the Rewind Arcade in San Francisco. I love Adam. Okay? Great guy. Now, open the rewind. Adam has every new server in Ellie. He's got blood, piss, Elvira additions. He's got everything. Okay? Mm-hmm. But Adam is a real estate investor. so Adam's day job and what Adam puts food on the table is not the rewind arcade it's selling houses so Adam's getting his profit over in selling houses and then he can go out and he can play in his arcade and he can be the third distributor and he can buy all the newest games and he can put them out there and if the Godzilla or the Dungeons and Dragons LE or the King Kong LE that he's got makes $100 a week doesn't matter that that game's going to take 52 months to be in the black because he's not relying on that to pay his bills he's offsetting it so I think when you really get into it and you break it down and you really break it down into you know money and you break it down into operating and you break it down into what games are worth the money where's the price point and then you really have to break down like what is your what are you doing to buy these games to support yourself.
    93:52
    Play-Doh sports and games? That's me. That's what puts food on the table. If you go and you look at DOS, Flipper Hoss, I love Dallas and Chris.
    94:06
    Both those guys have other jobs. Both those guys are not putting their... It's a side gig. It's a great side gig. It's a cool side gig, but it's not where they're making their money. Well, and that, when I say that they've got another side gig, when I say that Adam's out there and he's selling houses or he's doing something else, that doesn't mean that I'm saying that their spots are not profitable. No, I mean, they might be. They might be, but they're not. They're sustaining. And they're a little extra. Sure. If you were to go out there and be honest. Excuse me. I don't know anything about the financials. They might be right in there. And I'm right there with Dan. But I will tell you, and I will be up front and be financially, you know, transparent. Most pinball machines are not making $200 to $300 a week at any location. I can tell you when I was crazy busy down at CoinUp, a good location week on a good new pinball machine, 150 to 200 a week, that's a good, that's a solid location weekly drop. The average, 60 to 100.
    95:41
    The norm in a slow location, 25 to 50. Okay, so run the numbers, and that really justifies where it all breaks down. So you really have to look at, I learned this from the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, from those operators who I met decades ago. He said to me, he said, the way that you've got to operate is you've got to operate under the pretenses that you're going to have lost leaders on your floor.
    96:20
    Meaning that Pac-Man needs to be there, but Pac-Man's going to make you $9 a week. But it's going to bring people in. And that guy's going to sit, that Pac-Man's going to sit there, and the guy's going to go, and he's going to drink while his wife plays Pac-Man, and blah, blah, blah. And you're not banking on the $9. What they did tell me, go ahead, Dan. Well, that kind of goes back to, like, what we said at the beginning. The arcade games are the gimmick. Yes. The arcade games give a reason. Pinball, get them in the door. Yeah. You know. It takes care of itself, but, you know, the hope is that we're going to sell food and drinks and other profitable, you know, and sessions and... Exactly. Merchandise and all of it. But the real big... But, like, you're not going to make money on Harry Potter as a unit for years. For years. You're not. That's not even until you probably, you know, you would pull it off the floor and sell it. And they say, okay, well, I sold it. I got my money back plus some, but, I mean, you're 100 air at that point. You are. And really what you've got to look at is you have to go back and you have to look at your maintenance side. So Harry Potter scares the crap out of me because it's a J.J.P. It scares me. I'll tell you that. I'll be honest with you. The only J.J.P. that I ever ran that I had almost no issues with dialed in.
    98:00
    Dialed In was fantastic. Dialed In never broke. I mean, it got flipper rebuilds. It broke some rubbers. Other than that, it never, ever, ever broke. I never had a problem with Dialed In.
    98:17
    So I think you have to look at the maintenance side of things. Like I look at like Munster's LE, and I look at the mini play field. It's a nightmare. It's a terrible, I love John Borg. I had dinner with him when he was doing it. We talked all about it. I mean, I talked his ear off at Expo, but it's the mini play field gets dirty really quick. I mean, thankfully, it's easy to take off, but you're always cleaning it. It's just for what the game earns and what the game requires, it's not there. And it's no different than people say to me all the time, why don't you run Twilight Zone? Because every Twilight Zone that I've ever operated, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. It breaks all the time. Next gen. I mean, the whole game is optos. you're going to be dealing with 700 optos you know the freaking guns break and the wires it's a nightmare a dude in our group actually got the line on a next gen the first thing I said was it's a great price I said looks nice the subway is more complicated than most other games and it's got 700 optos so you know the 12 volt is going to shit yeah And so, I mean, it's that. So, like, I mean, I look and it's not – we could sit here and we could talk about old games all day, but I could sit here and I could tell you about, you know, the first run of Stranger Things. That was a disaster.
    100:06
    You know, or let's talk about the scoop on Rush. Yeah. Scoop on Rush. Or, I mean, look at the new Metallica. Sparky's head. you know, flying off and all that stuff. So, I mean, I think it's really, Spencer, if you're really going to get down to it and you're going to get down to the nuts and bolts of is it worth it, is it not worth it, I would say this. If I was going to open a location and I was going to do pinball and I was not going to do hard alcohol and I was going to do like beer and wine and soda, I would not go out and I would not spend a bunch of money on new Stern pinball or anything else. I wouldn't go buy a Dune. I wouldn't go buy a Labyrinth. I wouldn't go buy an Alice. I wouldn't go buy a King Kong LE. I wouldn't buy any of that stuff. I would go out and I would buy older stuff in a flooded market. and I would operate the stuff that nobody else is operating. And I would focus on that and I think you would be more successful on the profitable side than you would be going out and buying a bunch of new sterns. And that, again, that's my opinion. I'm not saying that new sterns are not profitable because they do make money. but I think the old adage in all the years I've been doing it, 18 to 24 months is a good round number on when your game should be in the black. That is comparable to pinball, to video games, to anything. 18 to 24 months. If your games are not giving you an ROI in 18 to 24 months, But you better be offsetting those games with something that is giving you at least making up for 10% of what you're losing on those games, 15%. And I think that's really how you have to look at it. My personal, you know, view of it, I bought a lot of games many years ago. So majority of my equipment is paid off. I don't owe anything on majority of my equipment. So for me to go out and buy a new game and say it's going to take me three years to pay it off, it's not as big of a deal because the 12 other games have been paid off for 10 years. Right. They can offset the lost leader on, say, the new one, and, you know, you can do things on the new pinballs to generate a lot of money. You know, Stern does really great launch parties. Those things are great. You know, I mean, I know that Jerry over at P3, like, he, you know, like we had the multimorbid, the Lexi light speed out on location. You know, we were some of the first spots to have that. So people could come and play it and get a feel for it. I think those are all things that can up your revenue. But I think when you sit down and you really look at, I'm an operator, and really I'm going to put this more as if you're an owner, operator, and you're doing this as your sole career. So this is not a side gig. The one thing that I would say, make your decision is base it on theme. You will never go wrong with Star Wars, ever. You will never, ever. Mandalorian, everybody can hate on Mando as much as they want. Mando's one of my best earners. Interesting. And it's always been one of my best earners. My Star Wars LE Stern, one of my best earners. Does it? And people are like, but Godzilla is so much of a better game. Yeah, but Star Wars is so much of a bigger theme.
    104:46
    Yeah. You go out, you do a Stern Indiana Jones, I don't care if you hate it, put it next to King Kong, bet you it takes King Kong down.
    104:58
    Yeah. And that's where I would end it with where does it become valuable or where does it become a pass? A lot of factors.
    105:12
    So, in other words, he'll spend whatever he has to spend as long as he gets the game that he wants. No, you have such a wonderful view or multifaceted view because you are a route operator. this is how you put food on the table. You all are also, and have been for many years, and started out as a collector, a fan. So you have a really wonderful and multifaceted view on it. And I'm a tech. And you're a tech. So you see all sides. And he's a dork. He's a dork. A little dork. You can interpret the car wash, you know. To bring it full circle, you know, you've worn every hat. Yeah. You know, you were an enthusiast. Sure. You were a collector. You were a technician. You were a small-time operator. You were a big-time operator. Owner. And now you're an owner-operator. You know, operator's going to take the backseat, really, because at the end of the day, you know, you're going to be operating this entire life. Yeah, but I'm operating it with great people. And I'm not – What I'm saying is to kind of bring it to the games. I mean, you're kind of keeping it gamey. But, you know, you're going to have, again, an authenticity to your place because it's not just going to be based on, well, I'm just going to get every hot new game and stuff them in there and hope that the pinball heads come in. Yeah, hope that everybody comes. You know, you're going to be trying to build an environment at Playfield Sports and Games where people will come and they will experience. experience the whole genre, you know, of games, of arcade games and pinball machines and whatever else you guys decide to get involved in. You need to get a trap shoot. I will come in and play this. Oh, yeah. A trap shoot would be cool. We talked about projectors. We talked about, you know. Gremlin Wall Games, baby. From 1870. Yeah. I mean, we talked about a lot of that stuff. And the spot is huge. I mean, Mark just got the whole grand tour of it. You know, I mean, it's ginormous. It's massive. Yeah, I mean, it's massive. I mean, there's so many rooms. There's two levels. I mean, it's huge. So, I mean, there's a lot of things that we can do. And there's, you know, and I think the focus is not just going to be one thing. The focus is going to be the entirety of the experience. And I think that's, you know, to go full circle and to go back around to where we started. I saw nostalgia. And that's what's exciting. I'm looking forward to coming to your place. And that's why I asked at first, what are you going to do that nobody else can? That nobody's got. I can't wait to go to your place and play games that you are not going to find anywhere else that are maintained and curated by a true enthusiast as well as a technician and an author. And, you know, and I said this to my wife. I said, you know, I've been at this since the late 90s.
    108:24
    But you've been involved since the 80s. Oh, the early 80s. We were kids. And we would go to the arcades and we would be amazed by these machines. So you're bringing a lifetime of experience. I bring it a lifetime. Not just the dude who got into pinball five years ago has, you know, a few hundred extra thousand dollars and says, oh, yeah, I'm going to buy, you know, a dozen sterns. And throw them in a building. Pick them up in a building and sell some Roman coats. Yeah. Well, I think the other thing, too, that I didn't tell you guys was that, like, when I was a kid, my grandmother, my mother, and my mother's brother, my uncle, they took us to C.A. Robinson in South San Francisco. And they bought us Pac-Man and Tron uprights. And that was for all the grandkids. And they stayed at my grandmother's house. and when the adults were having their meetings, their safety meetings, or whatever they were talking about, drinking it up and smoking and doing whatever they were doing, that's what us kids did. We got bothered because we just had a television. They literally had a game room. And the funny thing is my uncle still has the Tron and it hasn't worked in years. And he's like, you know, since you do this for a living, you could probably come and fix my Tron. and um but you know i've been around it my whole life and you know i i think exactly what you said is the goal of this place is to bring to bring what it's like to come over to my house to a public environment and if you've never i think you nailed it perfectly dan if you've never been to my house, it's an experience. And it's an experience because of the fact that it's, like, people will come over and they'll be like, where'd you buy this? And I'll be like, oh, that's authentic, 84. Like, still, you know, there's like, you look up on a shelf and there's like a Bugs Bunny plate from Great America in like 1985. Oh my gosh, wow. You know, like, and so I think that, I said to my wife, I said, you know, babe, I've been collecting all these games and all this stuff and everything to actually put it in a spot that people can come and see it. And again, Walt Disney was one of, you know, my heroes growing up. And his whole idea of Disneyland was, you know, he used to take his girls to the park and there was nothing for the adults to do. He put them on the merry-go-round, and he wanted to build Disneyland to bring back the feelings of what we all were when we were kids. And that's – I'm still very nostalgic.
    111:22
    I love all this stuff. I love the 80s. I love the 90s. I want to bring a fun experience to Reno. I want to bring something different to Reno. I don't want it to just be another spot with games and booze. I want it to be like, wow, have you gone in? Have you seen what they added? Did you see the gremlins spinning on the fan? Et cetera, et cetera. Oh, I can't wait. We'll do cool pop-up stuff. And, you know, so that's the goal. That's the goal for it, and that's what we're shooting for. So when I'm a patron and I'm going in, I'm going to be able to go back in time and live my childhood in the 80s. How do you deal that way? Hearing music from the 80s, having the colors of the 80s, the sounds of the 80s, the people of the 80s. Not the good 80s, not the lame 80s. Yeah, not the lame 80s. Not the lame 80s. No, of course not. Of course not. There's definitely a perception of what the 80s was that the 80s wasn't. Oh, 100%. Leave the 90s. The 90s, like, you're starting to see this really over-exaggerated, like, picture of this one little piece of the 90s. I believe, you know, when you check out Joe's vision of the 80s, it's going to be a pretty authentic. It'll be cool. Authentic. Yeah. Authentic. Joe, like, you and I were both there.
    112:46
    Spencer, it's just going to make you feel old. No, you know what? I'm going to have to make it a point to dig out a pair of my OP cord shorts and jump on a plane. OP. Oh, yeah. I'm going to put on my LA gear but I think we're going to do that even like on our merch I want to do the same stuff I want to bring that back I don't think anybody's done it to justify it the way that it needs to be done and I think that's our goal and I think our goal is when I said sports and games and our slogan is play now, adult later. It really is I don't want to be a sports bar, but I want to hit on the sports crowd. I don't want to be solely an 80s bar, but I want to hit on nostalgia. And I don't want to be just a bar, but I want to have good drinks and I want to be able to relate to the demographic. Like, if the rodeo's in town, you better believe that we're going to have specials on PBRs and Slim Jims. I love it. You know? I love it, too. You know, like, that's where we need to – that's where me and my team really need to hit on it. And that's what my focus has been. We just got done hiring all our staff. We just had staff meetings, and everybody's hired. Everybody's ready to go. We're waiting on some stuff with the health department, and let's do this. I literally just thought of this. You said merch. Painter's hats. Oh, yeah. Bring those back. Yeah. Painter's hats. Yeah, of course. Painter's hats. I like the ones with the little flaps on the back. Yeah. Yes. So your neck doesn't get sunburned. But, I mean, I think it's all of it. Like, I mean, I want to do, like, I don't know if we'll do this in opening, but I'm going to do, like, like, like, Quinov does, like, a power punch, which is, like, in the Capri Sun pouches. Oh, yeah. I'm going to do juice boxes. Oh, heck, yeah. Cool. So I'm going to do, like, an ecto-cooler in a juice box. I love it. Something like that. I don't know if we're going to hit on that, you know, obviously before opening, but there's definitely, we're going to get open. We're going to, you know, I think it's going to be fun. I think it's going to be a fun environment. And then we're just going to build on that and go from there. And, you know, fingers crossed, it all goes well. And yeah, we're a year from now, we're talking about the one year anniversary. And here's the thing too. you're saying, oh, we'll add this and that, always have it a surprise, an element of surprise, right? And that's going to get people coming back over and over again, just like what, you know, like Disney said, a park that will never be finished. It will never be done. And I think that's a big thing is that, you know, don't ever get complacent. Don't ever get, you know, even if you're out there and you're crushing and you're, you know, making tons of money and your concept's working, somebody is out there thinking about a way to do it better. So always, you know, reinvent yourself.
    116:30
    Always, you know, like I tell my staff and I told my, you know, Paige and Nate who, you know, own it with me, you know, we're going to throw stuff against the wall. It's not going to work. That's okay. You know, there's a lot of people that were successful, but they weren't successful their first time. And I remember I lost my grandfather. I was very close to him, but I lost him when I was 13. And I remember him telling me, I remember saying something to him about his liquor stores. and he said to me, the first three liquor stores that I opened all went out of business. He said if I would have given up after the first one or the second one or the third one, I wouldn't be where I am today with many, many successful ones. And I think that holds true to me is that you can't get discouraged. like I had a rough, you know, couple years after coin-op. And, you know, everything that I put into that place and all my blood, sweat, and tears and how it ended up. But at the end of the day, I never looked at it and said, well, it's going to knock me down and I'm going to stay down. I looked at it and said, okay, I learned a lot. Let's, you know, go to Reno. Let's try to fix this old, you know, location that's not doing well. Let's take the experience and let's do something and let's build it and let's, you know, build something that you truly believe in. And we are on the precipice of it. And to be honest, guys, it's still a little surreal for me, even when I pull up. Like I pulled up today to work and I looked at my spot and I looked at the sign and it's still surreal that it's mine. and that works here. But what I will tell you is it's been an adventure. I wouldn't change it for anything, and I'm ready to go crush it. And we're ready to go to it, and I can't wait. So are you looking at possibly May? I know you can't give a definite date because things come up. I don't think. What's your goal? I mean, May is very feasible. we're at the mercy of like I said a couple of permits and nothing that's bad just things that we have to wait like there's time frame on it but if we don't get those passed we talked about it today we might just open bar game and get a food truck and then wait on the kitchen okay just to get the doors open but ideally I'd like to have the whole package open. I don't see it going into June. If it falls on the weekend of Golden State, then obviously we'll do the week after. I was like, it's something to do either the weekend before or the weekend after Golden State.
    119:45
    That's what we're shooting for. So, yeah, obviously that's going to be the place to be. We'll keep you guys anyone who listens to our show. By the time that you hear us again next, it'll be open. Yeah, we'll do another podcast from Playfield Sports again. We should. There you go. We could do something remote. Like this time we could all meet up with Mark. We could snowball it up there. Yeah. Absolutely. I know me and Mark, you know, have thrown stuff against the wall. And I know me and Shannon have talked about this. My goal, and I would really love this to happen, I think the Sacramento and Reno scene is two of the best pinball scenes in the country. I'm not taking anything away from the Midwest scene because I know that's unbelievable.
    120:34
    But I would love to get some friendly competition between Sacramento and Reno. You know, the problem, though, is all of our people are going to your state. Well, I can't do that. I know what's going on. They're going to your state, Mark, and they're kicking your guys' asses. Yeah.
    120:54
    Your state champions aren't. Yeah. So you guys need to step up your game. I just – There you go. I want to work on some stuff that we get. We get to Sacramento against Reno, and Reno against Sac, and we start playing at different venues. And, you know, one week we play at Doss, and maybe we play at Ryan's, and then we play at Inglide and Prestard and Playfield. And I would love to build a scene between the two big groups. That would be awesome. It makes most people want to drive two hours. I know. But I don't think we'd do it. I nicked it because I was going up there for work. Well, you were there for work. But I wasn't driving up. I mean, I have given up there to do a thing at Crest Star to do a Saturday. Sure. But, like, in general, yeah, I would just, you know, it was a kind of opportunity. But, yeah, you know. You got the hardcores who make that drop. You got the Ricks. You got the Jack Sloviches. You got, you know, Mark. Mark comes down here once in a while. But, I mean, come on, Mark. How hard is it to roll down to Sacramento just to spend a day playing pinball? Oh, I agree. I need to come out there more. I would love it. And if you sponsored something, especially it being you, and you being one of ours at heart, California guy, I'm sure we would show up in force. Well, and I think I was talking to, like, Mike LaFreta, and Mike was saying that he plays at DOS. And, I mean, he's living in Reno. And he's playing at DOS on Mondays. So I think we – now, I agree. Not everybody's going to come. You're not going to get everybody to come. But I think your diners – I know Shannon would do it. You know Ryan would do it. There are people who will do it. Yeah. There are people who are that hard. So, any other questions for me, guys? No, I feel like we've said everything that we can say about Playfield. Let's talk a little bit about what we're doing at Golden State. Yeah. Since you're going to obviously be involved in that.
    123:03
    I'm going to do, you know, obviously, if Playfield was open, I would have done a bigger, I would have done a sponsorship.
    123:12
    Hopefully next year, I'd like to do the sponsorship for the tournament or do the magazine or do something. Obviously, we will do merch for the auction for this year for us.
    123:30
    I've got a bunch of games I'm going to put up for sale. I, you know, do the show. Obviously, Godzilla Lost in Space are going to go, but I've got those two are not for sale. But I'm going to have like Rocky and Bullwinkle. I'm going to have an Airborne.
    123:49
    We're going to have Data East Turtles, a Last Action Hero. So there'll be some good stuff. I got a baby Pac-Man project.
    124:03
    A ton of parts that I've been going through. so I'll probably have all that stuff out by JJ's trailer I'll probably do the swap meet I don't know in the morning I was thinking of the swap meet but I never made the time it's really early I am on the backup list for Friday tournament I'm on both I wanted to play Marley you're on Friday aren't you yes I made it on Friday I'm 10 or 11 on the backup not too far down And I was very like, like it was 20 minutes and I just sort of spaced on it. And then I think Saturday I'm like 10. Yeah.
    124:46
    I'll also be doing the broadcasting with Rich. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, if you don't get in and you just walk on the Internet for five or six hours, it doesn't seem like that's going to be a problem for us. Well, Mark is a miracle worker, and I'm going to say this, because I want to tell people this before he posts it on my thread. I reached out to Multimorphic, and then Mark reached out to Multimorphic much better, and they reached out to us, and we've made the arrangements that on behalf of Spinner is Lit and the Golden State Pinball Festival, we will be bringing Portal to the show. That's amazing. Can we have some players? I'm excited about that. taking 53 apart.
    125:31
    And Al helping him load it too. It's only 350 pounds. Yeah, I know. Mark's stuck in this with me. I'm all in. The hope is that we'll get, you know, we haven't received the module yet, but it has been publicized, so it's no secret. I did see it online.
    125:51
    It's no secret. Jerry put it out there. So we are excited and we do want to thank our good friends at Multimorphic for making this possible, not just for us, but for the show. And, yeah, you know, that's going to be a really, really cool thing that I reached out, you know, just sort of half thinking, oh, this might be cool. Maybe it'll happen. And, you know, you never, never ever underestimate the generosity of the pinball community. No, not at all. You know, we put out our games. We put out our time. we got manufacturers sending us out pre-production demo units to bring out so that the people of Northern California can experience what people in I guess Texas and maybe Midwest and a couple other shows have gotten to experience already which is Portal right and on top of that we also have Dune coming I reached out to them as well so Dune will be there was that another Mark? yeah that was me I contacted Ryan Mark is the shadowing. He is. He's the shadow cabal, man. He is. Behind the scenes, he's just, like, manipulating things. Hey, Mark, what did the Barrels of Fun say about the licensing and the audio clips for Dune? Because I know when they showed it at the last show, there was, like, they couldn't do something with the licensing or the audio because they hadn't cleared the audio clips. Do you know anything about that? I don't right now, but I know that they're working on it, getting that approved. So it might be available all depending if they get the code updated in time. But basically when I contacted them, they said, you know, we just need to get a hold of a distributor or somebody who could be willing to have somebody who's possibly buying the game and might be able to just pick it up at the show. But it will be available to play. that's what Arrow's about I'm sorry? yeah, right now it does Arrow's generic sound is at least like firepower chime, you know ding ding ding that was one of the big things that I saw today about why they haven't shown Harry Potter yet because she didn't, J.K. Rowling didn't like something with the audio or something with the clips, and then she doesn't want the trans light called the trans light. She wants it called the back glass. Well, JJP does back glasses. I know, but they can't. That would be a problem. Yeah. Those are the things. She doesn't want to call the trans. There's no way that that should be okay.
    128:41
    You know, you did see some of her tweets. She watches Star Trek and she's just like, that can't be called the transporter. It's got to be called the people beamer. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. It's the apparator. You know, just.
    129:01
    Yeah. One of those things, you know, Harry Potter with my whole thing on it is, I know Jack has been working on the license for over a decade. Ten years. And I know the license is huge, and I know you don't want to upset the licensee, and I know she's very difficult to deal with. So for whatever reason. She finally approved it to have it made into a pinball machine. That was half the battle. No, that was the big thing, you know, how it all started was, I guess Jack had brought her a Wizard of Oz. Like when Wizard of Oz was brand new and basically said, look, we want to build something gorgeous. you know we want to build screw this you know and so she had a very close minded viewpoint of old pinball you know I understand that it is one of the two or three biggest license plates that you can get right it's Star Wars for the millennials it is but I'm with you like yes I've seen Harry Potter movies And, yes, I've read the Harry Potter books because my wife had them. Yeah. But, like, I don't have any special love for Harry Potter. My interest in Harry Potter is 100% about what is it going to do for him. Yeah, me too. Me too.
    130:29
    That's the only reason I'm interested in this game. You can do a million other things that I like better. But every time that I hear about what, you know, Jack's going to go through, Remember how bad it was for Stern with James Bond? Yes, yes. That's going to be a walk in the park on a sunny day. Compared to this. Yeah, and that is my thing. And I think the number one thing that I would say that concerning about Harry Potter is that J Pease had a lot of issues with licensing We know this Toy Story 4 Jerry Bruckheimer a lot of these things And you dealing with one of the hardest individuals when it comes to a license. You could really inhibit what you get as the final product. And I think that is that's where I think if you really want to talk about money and value and things like that, I think that's where we're all sitting. I think it's hurting King Kong sales because I think a lot of people are waiting to see it.
    131:40
    Yeah, I don't think King Kong is going to be in too much trouble. I think King Kong is going to sell really well on the Elwynn name, and I think it's going to shoot. Because it's the Elwynn. It's the Elwynn name. It's the Elwynn. And with the pinball section autos right now, people are buying the Elwynn games because it's the Elwynn game. Because it's the Elwynn game. But the thing that I will tell you is there were still LEs available. Sure. Could that also be because of the price point now at $13K? Yeah. Well, but I think you're at $13K, Spencer, and you've got Harry Potter coming. Yeah. And you've got Harry Potter. I mean, if you look at what you get at $13K with J.J.P. versus what you get with Skrr, you get a more, I'm not going to say better, because I think Sterns shoot better, but, you know, quality of cabinet, things like that.
    132:35
    Yeah. Have you spent much time on Elton John or Avatar? I've played both. They're both gorgeous. And they're both great examples of what JJ can do. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's no way that you look at either of those games next to an equivalent Stern. And say the Stern looks better. And think that the Stern looks better. Right. I mean, Stern makes some great-looking games, you know.
    132:59
    I'm going to give Stern all the credit. Like, five years ago, I was really bored with what Stern was doing. And they've really turned it around, and they're doing some very interesting-looking games. Yeah. They're getting experimental with playfield layouts, you know.
    133:13
    They're messing with the ball path. They're taking out pop bumpers. You know, they're finally being like, hey, you know what? Let's do something different. Let's do something different, right? You know, we've sold as many versions of Metallica and Gardens of the Galaxy. And Ninja Turtles. And the monsters. And Ninja Turtles. I think Ninja Turtles was kind of funky. Fuck, it's mean as a snake. But, uh. Kills me every time. Kills me too. I want to like it so much, man. And I just want to push it over. I've lost so many tournaments every night. Because of that. Even up with that as my final game. But, you know, I think that at the end of the day, you know, Harry Potter is going to be a make-or-break game for Jersey Jack. I think they spent a ridiculous amount of money on it. If this game tanks, I'm afraid of what it means for Jersey Jack. Yeah. I don't think there's any chance it'll tank. If anything... No, it's not. If anything, the nightmare of that would be if it does a Pirates. Yeah. Where they can't get it out and... They can't make enough numbers. Right, they can't make enough, and they have to give up on it, or they run out of license, and then at the very least the people who got it will be, you know, Oh my God, it's worth $80,000!
    134:29
    All that juice for the company. Yeah. I don't think we'd be better off without Jersey Jackets. No, I don't.
    134:38
    The Gottlieb, like the Cadillac Gottlieb of the day. Yeah. You know, where they're making the craziest games, they're making big licenses, But yeah, like you said, they're not getting... But I heard they have everything for Harry Potter. No, no, no, no. I think they have everything. I think she's... You just got to get it past the gatekeeper. Yes, I think the gatekeeper's like, well, you can't say it this way, but you can say it like this, and it's a promotional video, and it's got to be done this way. I think it's a lot of that. And I think, you know, I think Harry Potter, if I was... I think J.J.P. wants to sell Harry Potter in Adam's family numbers. Do I think that will ever happen again? No, I don't. Not for $10,000. But I don't know for $10,000. I don't think. But I think Harry Potter could sell a lot of numbers. You think they sold 10,000 Godzillas? Yes, I do. I think Godzilla is probably close to 15,000. Spencer and I were talking about that the other day. I think they've sold a lot of, I think they've sold 10,000 Star Wars.
    135:49
    Wow. Comic book, all of that. Yeah. I think they've sold 10,000 Star Wars. I think Star Wars sold really well for them. Godzilla sold really well for them. I think Iron Maiden might be another 10,000 that they might have sold. I got that. Eight to 10. I think that, you know, I would love to see certainly some numbers on that. They're never going to happen. Godzilla is the kind of game that everybody has. Everybody has Godzilla. That game is everywhere. And Kong will be tied with it. I really think it's going to be as popular. I really do. What, Harry Potter? No, no, no. Kong is popular as Godzilla. I think Kong is going to be popular as Godzilla. I agree. Yep.
    136:32
    I've heard that Keith is coming to Golden State. No, I think that was a rumor. And he said at the end of that, not one podcast. So he said something that could be taken that way, and somebody messaged me and asked about it. And I said, you haven't heard. It's not official, but it's a possibility. Let's put it that way. It sounds like Mike Vinacore. And who's the other? Michael. Who's the other lot who comes from? Michael Grant. Yeah, let's confirm. Those guys are going to come. And they're great guys, and we love having them. What's his face is coming, though? Don't want to take anything away from those guys. I thought it would be cool for Keith to come up because he's a California guy. So, come on, it's NorCal. And he showcased his Archer machine that changed everything.
    137:25
    Yeah, but that was before professional Keith. Well, of course. But it still was cool to see that evolution of him. And then all of a sudden, wow, I played his prototype. I would have never let my Maiden go if it was Archer. I would have never got rid of my Maiden if it was Archer. Right. I think they should redeem a new Archer. There you go. I wish Archer wasn't so done.
    137:49
    But yeah, you know, back when it was on, Archer would have been great. Any of those animated, those cartoon swims, like man, if they made like a Venture Brothers game. Where's Futurama? Yeah, Futurama.
    138:02
    Where's Futurama? Futurama, yeah, for sure. Why do we, I mean, they would do, but Like, come on. Like, where's Gremlins? Gremlins would be awesome. Where's Goonies, guys? Yeah. I mean. Goonies. Oh, yeah. There's no Goonies. There's no Gremlins. There's no, like, don't you guys want me to make Gizmo move? I mean. Right.
    138:27
    I'm sure that they're fighting with license. With license. But, I mean. Just finding the relevance. I mean, there's no Matrix. Yeah. Right. How is there no nature symbol? Yeah. We want to reiterate for those listeners that might not know, Joe, was it two or three years ago, you won a Twippy for best mod because you made it Rogu for the Mandalorian game. Rogu got something. Yeah. Rogu got something. Is that in your Mandalorian at the Playfield Sports and Games? The original prototype that won that Twippy is in my Mando Ali. Yes. Is it at Playfield Sports and Games or no? There is a moving Grogu in the premium, yes. Yes, cool. Okay, good. And we would probably have that available for sale to it at Playfield. Nice. definitely something that I want to do. I hope to have some pinball parts, you know, section and some mods and stuff like that. Obviously not an opening, but that's something. Sure. Sure. Something to look forward to. Awesome.
    139:50
    That is so cool. How about all like warehouse full of Grogu action figures waiting for you to cut them up? No, I have about eight left and I've never, you know, that run was done. People, to be funny, the funny thing is I probably get hit up three to four times a month on Pinside with people that want one of mine. And I'm like, you know, three other people make them. They're like, but I want yours. And I'm like, well, I'm not doing it anymore, guys. It was fun. We did over 100 of those and I signed them all, numbered them all, and when we were done, we were done. I built every single one by hand. Wow. I'm not selling any more Grogu clothes. My wife sold 100 Grogu clothes, and she was like, I'm not doing any more Grogu's. We will probably not do any more runs of those. Oh, wow.
    140:53
    But that's cool, man. I mean, you got that to add to your list of accomplishments, and that's very cool. You know, getting that award was probably one of the coolest things in being in the amusement industry because it was voted on by my peers, by, you know, the community. It wasn't, it was you guys that voted that. So it was very humbling. I went to Texas, got up on the stage, gave the speech. You know, it was very, very humbling, and I was very honored. and it was something I will remember for the rest of my life. We use whatever that service is that Canada uses to win. I just want to put that out there. Right here on the Internet, you heard it first, we cheated.
    141:42
    No, I think it was a phenomenon. It really was like in our lives, it didn't mean pinball, right? Like there's occasionally this thing that's just everywhere. And Mandalorian is one of the few stars that I've ever owned when it was new. Yeah. Like it was the new title. And Spencer's doing that right now with his Dungeons & Dragons. And I told him, it's really cool to own the very newest game. So, yeah, when you came up with that, it was all like, oh, this is the fucking thing. Even from a guy like me who generally doesn't mod his games very heavily, It was all like this, not just because you made it, but just because it was a must-have. I'm going to tell you what I posted it, and I woke up the next morning, and there was over 500 DMs in my Facebook. I was like, oh, my God. It was crazy. And it was like, because I, you know, I'm local and a lot of my friends, you know, I have people that, you know, Joe, can I come over?
    142:56
    So, I mean, I was going out of my house. I mean, it was. I mean, we're beyond the point where it's like, you know, there's any like, you know, any spoilers or anything. Like I straight went over to your house. Yes. And he said, do you want me to give you one that I've already made? or do you want me to make your figure? I want you to make my figure into one. And we did it that night. I mean, we had a pre-made cloak. We did have a pre-made cloak. Yeah, we like whooped that thing out. And, you know, the cool thing about that was you gave that away. Gave it away. Like you gave it away and said, hey, everyone, here's how you do it. Yeah. And, you know, if you want me to do one, I will do one, and it will cost you this, but here's how you do it. Yeah. It wasn't even like you went out, you know, and you're just like, hey, I'm going to get them out. And that was never my intention. And honestly, I did it for the community. I was like, this is ridiculous. I was like, he needs to move. I was like, we are not putting a static doll. And then the funny thing about that, though, was that I had saw some sneaks of it, and I knew that he wasn't moving. and I had bought the animated one before the game was even out and was already messing with it. And I didn't even know if it would fit because I didn't have the game. And I went and tested it on a pro just to see if it would fit. And it worked. Your serendipity basically. It worked. It fit better than the one that came with it. It's only from the middle. It's a little dinky. Yep. It fit perfect. The way I cut it and it lined up in the ramp. It went up that spot and it worked really well. It worked really well. Yeah. No, that's a watershed moment, especially for, you know, because it was like, oh, local boy makes good, you know. It was, you know what I mean? It was a best art, Joe. Best art, Joe, winning a trophy award, man, you know. And that was what I said to you guys, you know, when I received it, when I was up and I gave the speech. I said, this is for all you guys. This is for all of us. You know, it was definitely one of those things that I will cherish for the rest of my life because it was from you guys. You know, it was all of us. You know, so it was very cool. It was very cool. Well, I think you've inspired others. I mean, look at the, you know, Joss comes out and says, well, the shark doesn't eat the ball. And so something's figured out. Let's make a shark to eat the ball. Well, and I think that's what Stern is really like when people talk about, like, why didn't Stern do this in a game or why didn't they do that? Because there's so many modders out right now, they don't have to. But you know what? And we've talked about this on the show. That was Stern's stupidest move. Oh, what do you mean? Not making it? Not having any way for the shark to eat the ball. It was just like, sometimes, and I understand, you know, Elwin's distaste for something like that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but sometimes you just got to give the fucking people what they want. And that's – And you've got to remember this. And I think that you learned a lesson there. Because I think that you see with King Kong, I think it's doing a lot of shit that people want. Yeah. But what do you take – so I'm going to ask the three of you a question. And I want – It's a counter-interview. Well, I want your opinion on this. I like pinball. I do, too. I like long walks of water.
    146:34
    Where do you put the King Kong match in comparison to the Hulk match? So I think that the King Kong match is going to be the Hulk match. But it's not working. The Hulk match, you've got to admit, for a game of that era, and I mean... Ten years old. When Stern did Avengers, it was a BDD. It was a big damn deal. I liked the Tesseract Q. And they did some cool things. And that Hulk mech, you know, it was so disappointing that it just, it was always a ball hanging in the arms. You had a crazy arm. Useful removal. They would take the arms off. So seeing this Hulk mech in action, at least, you know, because I've only really seen that first stream, but... That's what I saw. Where he'll move it down, and he'll catch the ball, and he'll lift it up, and the ball will go by, and he turns around, and he does things... Well, I heard it. I looked at that, and I said, oh, man, it's going to be really hard looking at the pro after you've seen that in action, because it adds life to the game. And it's the same thing with, like, Jurassic, right? Yeah. The Jurassic dinosaur head was kind of stupid,
    147:49
    but it did what it was supposed to do. It ate the fucking ball. It was not bad, but it ate the ball. And I've had a pro here for a long time because I had one of our other groups pro. And I had fun with it. It's got almost all the same shots. But then you go back and you play a premium, and it's moving. You're just like, oh, shit. And the shaker motor goes. You're blank. Yes. Right. And here's my take on it. I think with your D&D Jurassic Park, where if it's working right and the dinosaur's tracking the ball, it just is one of those things where, again, it's the mechanical magic that for a while, Stern and even JJP had really gotten away with it. Yeah. Right. I think they were a little scared of mechanisms. So I think it's going to kick the whole mechanism's ass, and I think it's going to work 100% right. Okay. Here's my take. My take is that the King Kong is having a personality where Hulk was more mechanical and it was repetitious. King Kong is going to have animatronic movements fitting with the story and the experience playing the game. And I think King Kong, they're using the same elements in the Kong mech that they use in the D&D Dragon mech. Yes.
    149:17
    Which that, okay, so my take on King Kong, I'm a huge King Kong fan. I love the theme. I love everything. I bought D&D Premium. I thought, and my first impression, and I haven't played it, I have to play King Kong, I'm steering 100% what you're both saying, I thought the Dragon mech in D&D was better than King Kong. I was like, when I saw the D&D mech, I was blown away. Yeah. And then when I saw King Kong, I was like, oh, he's not climbing the building, and he's Hulk. That was my first impression. Didn't mean I didn't like it. The difference is this, right? The Hulk neck is a part of his game. Yes. Raph is his game. Is his game. Yes. Like, yes. Like, that thing is a buddy of ours in Tracy. He has an LE in that. It's been a couple of years. On the GD? Yeah, yeah. It's great. It's phenomenal. It's around a lot. It's phenomenal. Yeah, it's phenomenal. When he starts hitting the ball at you, it's just like, oh, this is so cool.
    150:39
    I mean, D&D is the first skirmish. When I played the pro, I was like, there's nothing I don't like about this game. I was like, I love everything. And then I, I mean, and then Rafe, and I'm like, oh, my God. And then it's, what's his face voicing him? Dorn. Dorn, I'm like, yeah. But again, it goes back to the mechanical magic of pinball. Yes. Is returning, you know, Godzilla. Godzilla really kicked it off, right, with the building? Yeah.
    151:17
    Yeah. Is there anything that was really super mechanical in the couple years before Godzilla? Mando, no. Yeah, Mando was very unfortunate in that regard. Mando was just a playfield. The tilting thing was cool, but it didn't have that personality. The tilting playfield was neat. But it's not mechanical wow. No, it didn't give the personality of the game. We talked about this earlier. I missed the whoopsie-do ramp on the telly, though. Yeah. The whoopsie-do ramp is awesome. The whoopsie-do ramp makes the game. Yeah, it's so good.
    151:58
    No, I mean, mechanical-wise, no, I mean, uncanny, the hand. Well, now you're getting to the point where, again, every one of their games is getting to that point where they've figured out that it's like we need to have something mechanical and cool. Even if, you know, you talk about the bookshelf and the car on John Wick or all the weird movement on Venom. I like Venom. You know, with the – Yeah. They know that it's like you have to have something on Venom. Well, I think your biggest innovation is your mapping.
    152:35
    Well, people get bored. It was the same thing. Yeah. I think your projection mapping on Stranger Things needs to be – That was cool. I think that's cool. Yeah, but what was cooler was the EL, the upside-down. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, yeah. But I think that's what we were for a while. Everything was lighting. Well, that was J.J. Roses. Everything was lighting. Stranger Things, basically everything was lighting. And then all of a sudden, you know, because the projector thing started back with, like, Star Trek. Yeah. You know, when you had your star field. Yeah. Right. It's a cool idea, but yeah, Stranger Things definitely did it better. The problem is, is when Stranger Things was idle, it's just the ugliest game ever. Oh, it's terrible.
    153:19
    This is not a beautiful game, like, no matter what. I think the game is Bond. Bond on a Wand. Terrible.
    153:27
    You know what? I actually don't have a lot of experience with the Bond premium, but I got to play with it the night of Shannon's. I like that. That ball lock is sick. I like Bond. Where it goes around the space. Love Bond. That's awesome. But Vaughn on one is terrible.
    153:42
    Mick on a stick, bro. And Mick on a stick wasn't great. Yeah. But it wasn't, you know what, I can get back the game. I have a weird life for those. But see. I love Striker Extreme and Austin Powers. Yeah, but see. Monopoly. But that's a perfect example. If you go out as an operator, right, just to go back, digress real quick. You go throw games out like Rolling Stones, like Mustang, like that era of Stern, there's an entire group of new pinball players that have never played those games. I was going to say, if you do that now, like, you get the iron factor. Yeah. Like, you know, I would love a WWF or WWE. Yeah, that one's cool. Yeah. I know everybody's pissed on that game. God, there was one local, me and Justin, that alley for $3,800. That was like a $4,000. There was a $3,800 alley. Me and Justin went back and forth about who's going to buy it.
    154:51
    You know, everybody's coming for it. I'm going to buy it. It was out here for probably a year. It was probably posted for a year. Yeah, yeah. I remember. We should buy it It's like Me and Justin had so many Late night conversations About what about Three grand would you go get it right now For three grand That's why I got this Transformers Pro I know It was like three thousand bucks I wanted it and I didn't get it And it turned out that another one of our buddies Bought it and was like yeah I'm just going to dump this Transformers Pro for what I'm into and I'm like I'll take it Yeah. You know, I don't care that people don't like Transformers. Oh, I like... I fucking love Transformers. I love Transformers. Same here. I would... It's the movie. I would... I would own a pro. But, you know, that's another example. They've gone back. Why have they not gone back and done Transformers? Oh, man, if they did G1 Transformers, again, you can name your product. Because the theme... Right. The theme for me is so strong. The only theme for me that was also that strong was Widow. Yeah. Like, it was never going to happen, and it happened, and I had to buy. But that, for me, is like drop Beastie Boys. Oh, I know. Beastie Boys would be huge. Drop me Beastie Boys. You got me $16,000 CD. Let's do this. I haven't seen it. We need hip-hop. We got to have hip-hop. If it were, it would make these words, give Steve Richard Beastie Boys. Like, what I mean, so there's your answer, Spencer. Where's the number? I don't know. I don't think there's a number. But for operating, it's a different story. No, but again, why? Why is it a different story? Because you think your VC voice is going to make you fat taxification? Like, I think that the title that everybody's sleeping on is fucking Pokemon. Oh, well, Pokemon is... Pokemon with a company-only, tax-done-out license, and makes a decent game, and puts it out, and has some sort of... Why would you? Why would you do that? It will be a license to print money with the Harry Potter thing. So why would you not go back? Look, okay, I'm going to tell you this. Right now, why are we not going back and doing South Park? Okay? South Park, I'm going to tell you right now, terrible game. I've owned like eight of them. Still makes money. I know. Still prints money. They still print money. It's popular. Futurama is popular, right? Pokemon is the most valuable meet and find on the planet. But Pokemon, why Stern hasn't done Pokemon with Insider Connected and catch them all and do all that across their pinball is ridiculous. Yeah. I know people who would spend whatever it took. If you did multiple versions, they would buy multiple versions because that is how the Pokemon people aren't programmed. I told you I'd watch 30 Minutes of Harry Potter. It's not 50-something, guys. I mean, although we lived through it. Like, I told it because I was, you know, I was a retailer for a long time. But, like, those kids who were buying Pokemon cards and games from me, now they're 40 years old. Oh, okay. Yeah, 35, 40, whatever. Now they're 40 years old and they would be buying that fucking game, you know, for $10,000 or whatever it took. It is a legitimate, like, phenomenon of a license. And again, it's up there with, you know, people don't really take it, but it is up there with your Harry Potter. Oh! It's up there with your Star Wars. It is up there with 100%, you know, your Disney, you know, as a whole, your Disney or your Marvel franchise. You know, it's a crazy license.
    158:47
    I... And it's gonna be a Golden State Disney! No, it's not. I can't put that, I can't put anything on there.
    158:54
    It's not going to happen. Homebrew. Well, you know, maybe why? Maybe you're paying him license. He didn't hit Sonic the Hedgehog. That is just, that is just, how there's no, but I mean, Sonic's pinball, he went to go work for American Pinball and then he didn't do it?
    159:13
    Very good work they got his double license. Yeah. I hope they have the peewee harmonizers too oh I mean Gary was president of Sega but I think that you know you look at you know Sega or you look at Stern and Stern will buy a license and sit on it for a few years and nobody at Sega will want to make it I mean fuck if there's any you know if there's any title that like you should turn Jack Danger loose on it's fucking sonic Sonic. Yeah. He would kill that thing. Or Pokemon. But Jack would nail Sonic because he's got the weird shots. No, exactly. It's the weird. Could you imagine?
    159:59
    That's the motherfucker who put a loop in his game. Yep. Yep. 100%. Jack is the guy who makes, whee! Like, I'm sure the X-Men have some of the coolest shots. But you could do, I mean, Sonic, I mean, you just do it with, like, the rampage shot on Guardians, right? The kickback, the crazy kickback, the rascal shot, right? On Guardians, you put that. The rascal, the laser kicker. The laser kicker, right? You put that right in front of the loop. In front of the loop, yeah, that's right. So you load it into that, and then it plays, you know, the deal, and it's finished.
    160:43
    You can do a lot of tax here. You can do a lot of badness when you're shooting a mechanical. I mean, yeah. I have no time to build a pinball. I'm okay. Yeah. I'm good. Well, I wanted to say, Joe, getting back to the mechanical thing, is I told Dan, I said, hey, man, I bought the Dungeons & Dragons Pro, like right when it came out, having never played it. And I swore to God I would never buy a game that I haven't played. So I did it, and it paid off because bold move, sir, bold move. And then he played it, and he went, oh, fuck, man. Fuck, man. It's phenomenal. It's a great game. I love it. Yeah. Love it. And looking at Kong, it looks real cool. But then you look at the Pro, I'm like, yeah, but there's no mechanical toy on there. Yeah. Even with the Pro, you still get up and down loom in the head. You still get the gelatinous cube. You look at that game, and for the money, for the value, even with the Pro, you're like, damn, they did a nice job on this. I mean, the Pro was what sold me on the game. Yeah. Well, I played the Pro, but I need this. Yeah, that's why the Pro exists, right? You know, you want to get 90% of the experience, 80% of the experience. As long as you don't completely change the game like Game of Thrones. Like, the Pro to the Premium is a totally different game. Yep. Different game. Yeah. But everyone's already used the Pro to the Premium. I didn't say it is it. Same with... But it's a different... The reason the Pro's better is because the Pro, you don't lose the Float with the upper playfield. Actually, I got it. I don't mind the upper playfield, but the Float. The Float was gone. It was gone. Yep. It's the same with Sword of Rage. Like, I missed the upper playfield on Sword of Rage. Yeah. you know I didn't love Sword of Rage because I didn't like the dead end shot on the pro yeah but it's grown on me the game that I will tell you has grown on me more than anything recently is Jaws yeah Jaws is good I didn't love it I felt the pro was empty I played Rift Premium and I was like wow this is really good Yep That's Is anybody operating that in Reno right now? Jaws? We have one location that has Jaws Premium or Pro? Pro See, that right there So that right there And the other place is Incline has a But it's a total I mean, how huge was Jaws in the 80s? Yeah, huge just for the Joc 3. And that's my favorite one, with Lewis Giles Jr. And 3D.
    163:34
    Just for the revenge. This time it's really, really personal. It's really, really personal. This time it's just for the money.
    163:45
    But I mean, where's Top Gun? Yeah. Like, where's Top Gun? Man, I don't know how J.J.P. hires Steve Ritchie doesn't have him do top. Or Maverick? Especially right after.
    164:00
    Maverick rushed at the box office. Yeah. It's been a long time since we had a Jeff Beider game. What's the last one we had? Airborne. 94? Something like that, yeah.
    164:16
    It'll be a Golden State. Nice. I love that game. I like all of the... Airborne is cool. I like all the Capcoms. I'm a huge break-up man I don't like Flipper Football yeah Flipper Football is for them multiplayer I remember Flipper Football man you used to not be able to give those away they were for sale for like 300 bucks and then it was like one day we played the shit out of that multiplayer and everybody decided that we loved it and then you could never find one and I don't know who bought them it's almost like Warlord It's bad. Like that warlord in Back Hill, the most fun car guys can have with their clothes on? Yeah. It's amazing. And yeah, you can't touch them for $5,000. But you have to be having parties every weekend to enjoy it. I find that like a fun one. Like, I would pay the money because I think it's a cool machine, but honestly... Great, I play the California Extreme for dollars every year. We play the California Extreme. Fantastic. We have our fun. Yep. We see the Lord of War. Yeah. We're good for you. And I'm good for you. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's... That's the same thing with, like, Clipper football. Like, I don't need that one at home because I can play it at Pinnacle. What? It's like, did you make Varkon again? Did you make Joust? Did Varkon? I'm like, no.
    165:36
    No. I mean, I love Varkon. I love the concept. I love the mirror. But, you know, no. I don't even want Baby Pac-Man or Granny and the Gators. We're okay. Yeah. I really wish James Laughlin and Circus Maximus Group would have done... Pimple Circus? Yeah. I mean, you would have done 100 of them, and they would have sold to rich people. Yeah. It's a cool concept, and it's not that great of a game. I just think it's a cool concept. It's a cool thing. Yeah. And I think some of the lessons are cool. Yeah, Total Recall. If a Total Recall thing had happened, I think that would have been amazing. I think that would have been... because, oh, probably, right, if I got broken up. But I think that the more that you look at it, and, you know, we're – have you ever made it out for the Tilt-Alica thing? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So every year we do Tilt-Alica, and every year people want to see Tilt-Alica. Yeah, we're doing three this year. And that's the plan. Yeah. You know, I hope everything's going to work, and that's going to work. Right. But – and then you play NBA Fast, Great, Multiplayer, and that's fun. It blows me away that Stern or Jersey Jack or these little companies Turner Pinball, for God's sake, with their ninja game and their Merlin game, why don't they put a head-to-head link mode in it? Fuck, that's cool. The whole rumor was that Godzilla and King Kong were the same. That was a total rumor. The licensing on that would have never happened. It would have never happened. A thousand times. Why wouldn't you be... I mean, why can't you link to Godzilla's? Yeah. You can have a kaiju battle. Just straight out... Or a spooky... Because, I mean, I don't see Stern doing that because why would Stern rock the boat? But, like, these little companies that are trying to make their peace, man, give some of these cyclos a reason to buy two of your games. Yep. Give some of these options a reason to buy two of your games. Yep. That might be a humongous attraction for your arcade. Totally. You know, any sports game lends itself to that. Uh-huh. Like, you know, I am in an E500, and another one of my buddies here in Elk Grove, Mike, owns an E500, and we just constantly think, man, how could you link these games together? So you're racing. Yeah. Yep. Well, I mean, how come we're not linking Dungeons & Dragons together? So we can all go questing. Mm-hmm. You get Insider Connected. Mm-hmm. I think that's the idea with Insider Connected is you can do that without only two things. But, yeah, it's a lot cooler if you have, like, a head-to-head mode. Well, that was, I mean, JJP was all about that. They were all about, they were going to do that to where you could link Wizard of Oz's together. That's so much of a thing that JJP of all companies should do. I don't know who's going to buy two JJPs. Right. But here's the thing. What we're going to offer is we will be able to select a shot, decide the parameters, and play against each other. Now, of course we're going to do Tilt-Tallica and we're going to have or Tri-Tallica, whatever you want to call it. It's going to be three games. I was watching the replay. Has anyone watched that replay video that Rick put up? Uh-uh. No. It's good. It makes me wonder. You're on it. I'm on it.
    168:52
    It just makes me wonder if making it more complicated is going to make it better. No, I agree with you. I agree. It's so dirt-ass simple. Oh, it's so dirt simple. But it's so fun. I agree. Just don't do that one shot. It's a one-shot wonder. Yeah, yeah. I totally agree with Tiltalica. You're so right. But what's great about what Greg produced is a system that you can choose parameters and you can actually play head-to-head on different games with the same type of shot, like the number of spinners and stuff like that. I do agree with you, Dan.
    169:30
    What did you say? I'm sorry? It's the loss of triumph that this guy created. That's incredible. I don't know if it's going to work better for our brand of a ground. Drunken late pinball? Yeah. Drunken late pinball? Aggressive left pinball. Yeah. It will work great. He'll have it set up any way that they want it. So, yeah. We're only 18 days away from the show, so. Yeah, I know. And what is that?
    169:57
    May 16th through the 18th in beautiful, sunny, low-dye California. Go to the website. Sign up for games. I got that email today. Seth sent it to me. What do you need? A cool coffee mug amongst those things. The swag box this year is incredible. Cool. I don't even think I'm going to take one this year. What is it? It's a bunch of goodies. Is it? A bunch of people missed out last year. I have my swag box from last year. I got mine. It is still 100% unopened. I got mine. Are we doing any bottles this year? I think we're going to have all kinds of swag. So bring your games. Yeah. One of the swag things in the, if you bring a game, is a Dungeons and Dragons pinball challenge coin. Oh, I am going to get my swag box, because I told you I would give you the coin. Yeah, cool. Thank you. I'll get the swag box, I'll give it to you. You better want the model out of it. Yeah, the model you can have. Okay, I do want some. Well, thanks. Thanks for giving me something out of my own swag box. You're a real pal. I'll just mooch the coin off of it. I'm bringing fucking Portal. Well, yeah. You should get a couple. Yeah, I'm taking Dracula, and I'm taking Doctor Who, and I'm taking Metallica. Awesome. But Metallica's not going to go to the show. Metallica's going to go to the camera. Yeah, right. So three to the show. Yeah. Unless I get soft and you want to take something else. But I figure that's probably enough games. Probably five. Probably six. What my normal is. I would do this all night, but I got working on it.
    171:30
    We are hitting the three-hour mark. We're hitting the three-hour mark. So we can wrap this up. I know there's going to be a four-hour podcast. Spencer, take us home, buddy. Yeah. Where can you find us? You can find us at our home at SoundCloud and on iTunes. And I believe once in a while we end up showing up on Spotify as well.
    171:52
    You can email us at thespinnerswood at gmail.com. And you can come and like us and comment on our Facebook page. Just go to Facebook and type Spinner's Lid. I honestly don't know. I've been trying to find the Facebook lately. I promise I'll be better. Oh, and one more quick thing. If you come see Dan, me, or Mark at the show, we're going to have a limited supply of Play Pinball Keep America Strong buttons. I got hundreds of those printed up, and we're giving those away. Awesome. You can't buy them. And then if there's any left over. Or if you want to. Yeah, well, no. You know what? Let me make a donation too. So come to the show I'm sorry Spencer It's alright Come to the show And if you can't make it to the show Just email me and we'll get you out a button So if you're not going to be able to make it to the Golden State Pinball Festival Email me at thespinnersletter At gmail.com And say I'd like a button and we'll mail you a button And no charge So just throw an envelope Throw a stamp on it and hope for the best. So thank you, Joe, for coming on the show finally. Yeah, he's the shout-out. Joe, you are awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your passion and your excitement about play field sports and games opening up soon in downtown Reno next to the Aces ballpark. Thank you guys for having me. It was great.
    173:26
    It took too long to get me on the show. hopefully we'll do it again real soon and thanks for the shout out for Playfield Sports and Games hope we will see everybody over there and hopefully we'll do a show maybe once we open and if anybody wants to see me or hang out with me I will be at Golden State Pinball Festival as well so thanks you guys for having me on the show did anybody mention Playfield Sports and Games did we? I don't know I think we did Okay, number two coming next year, California.
    174:02
    We're not going to go. I'm good on loop, Ned. Thanks, guys. We're going to wind it up. So go to Playfield Sports and Games, come to the show, and play pinball. Play pinball. America strong.
    174:26
    This is a presentation of the Art and Art Project.