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EP19 Michael Thomasson

The Pinball Studio Podcast·podcast_episode·37m 13s·held·Mar 17, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Michael Thomasson discusses pinball authorship, gaming history, and community-building.

Summary

Michael Thomasson, a competitive pinball player, author, and former holder of the world's largest video game collection, discusses his gaming journey from discovering Space Invaders at a Dairy Queen to becoming a pinball enthusiast and published author. He shares details about his recent book 'Pinball Pinups: A Visual Celebration of Pinball Art and the Women Who Grace Pinball Back Boxes and Playfields,' which sold out at the Pinball Expo, and his earlier gaming books on bizarre and controversial games. Thomasson also recounts how he helped grow pinball culture in Buffalo through tournaments at Pocketeer Billiards and Bar billiard hall, which expanded from 3 to 120 machines over two decades.

Key Claims

  • Michael Thomasson held the world's largest video game collection certified by Guinness, with 14,000+ titles accumulated at an average cost of $2.23 per game

    high confidence · Michael Thomasson stated during interview: 'I got the world's largest video game collection certified by Guinness' and detailed his collection at GameStop with 30% discount stacking

  • Pocketeer Billiards and Bar billiard hall in Buffalo expanded from 3 to 120 pinball machines over two decades due to community demand initiated by tournaments

    high confidence · Michael Thomasson described the growth: 'we went from three to seven machines... the next thing you know he brings in a few more tables and he's expanded three times over the last two decades... we now have about 120 machines running'

  • Michael Thomasson's 'Pinball Pinups' book sold out nearly 100 copies within the first couple hours of the second day of Pinball Expo

    high confidence · Thomasson stated: 'I took 100 copies of this pinball book to the expo because it really had nothing else to sell. And I sold out almost instantly.'

  • Rob Burke holds the Guinness World Record for the largest pinball machine collection and operates Past Times Arcade venue in Girard, Ohio

    high confidence · Michael Thomasson: 'he's in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the largest pinball collection and he has a place there called Past Times Arcade'

  • Michael Thomasson had a custom-built wide body virtual pinball machine with Arabian Night artwork that was too heavy to physically shake during gameplay

    high confidence · Thomasson described: 'I had someone custom make a wide body machine for me... it was a virtual pin... it had the Arabian Night artwork on the side... it was so heavy, the only way I could shake it was to move to the side of it and push it from the side'

Notable Quotes

  • “I only got the game with no system to play on... I read the back of that box in manual every night before going to bed for over a year... I'm still psychologically scarred from it because I'm talking about it, you know, 50 something years later.”

    Michael Thomasson @ Early in interview — Reveals personal gaming history and emotional connection to retro gaming that shaped his collecting obsession

  • “If it's got a coin slot, I'm there. If it tells my fortune or shoots a steel ball or has pixels on the screen, I don't care.”

    Michael Thomasson @ Mid-interview — Characterizes his universal attraction to arcade and gaming machines

  • “I learned that pinball players are more literate than video game players. A.M.I. going to get a lot of hell for that.”

    Michael Thomasson @ Book sales discussion — Humorous observation about pinball vs video game collector demographics based on book sales success

  • “The artwork is coming from machines in the 50s and 60s... I wanted to pay homage to the art... they always talk about the designers, how great the designers are. And they are great designers, but the artists don't really get their day.”

    Michael Thomasson @ Pinball Pinups discussion — Explains motivation for book—to highlight underappreciated pinball artists alongside designers

  • “Pinball Playas... if you look through the book, there's a large absence of sports based games in the book. And that's because I'm holding those for the second volume, which will be about the sports games, pinball sports games.”

    Michael Thomasson @ Future plans discussion — Confirms planned sequel to Pinball Pinups focusing on sports-themed pinball machines

  • “I never knew [that there were modes and rules and objectives and there's a beginning and an end to pinball] until then. And so, at that point, I really got absorbed in it.”

    Michael Thomasson @ Firepower discussion — Describes the moment pinball clicked for him when taught about rule depth by friend Marty

Entities

Michael ThomassonpersonSterling Plays PinballpersonRob BurkepersonLeonard HermanpersonBarrypersonBill KunkelpersonDoug WatsonpersonJeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti)person

Signals

  • ?

    content_signal: Michael Thomasson brings multiple authoritative perspectives: world record video game collector, published gaming historian, pinball author, competitive player, and community organizer with 20+ years in pinball culture

    high · Guinness-certified collection, multiple published books, keynote speaker at Pinball Expo, helped grow Buffalo pinball community from 3 to 120 machines

  • ?

    community_signal: Grassroots pinball community growth in Buffalo centered on The Pocketeer—tournaments and collector demand transformed a 3-machine venue into a 120-machine destination over 20 years

    high · Michael Thomasson: 'we went from three to seven machines... he brings in a few more tables and he's expanded three times... we now have about 120 machines running'

  • ?

    product_launch: Pinball Pinups achieved strong market response, selling 100 copies in under 48 hours at Pinball Expo—significantly outperforming Michael Thomasson's typical video game book sales (2-8 copies per event)

    high · Thomasson: 'I took 100 copies... to the expo... And I sold out almost instantly... I learned that pinball players are more literate than video game players'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Growing appreciation for pinball back glass and playfield artwork as collectible/historical art form separate from designer recognition; gap in existing pinball literature

    high · Michael Thomasson created Pinball Pinups specifically to spotlight artists; Rob Burke (major collector) said 'I'm learning stuff from your book'; artists gave permission at Expo

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Firepower example illustrates moment when pinball transitioned in player perception from simple mechanical game to rule-driven game with modes, objectives, and depth

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.112

0:00
Hello and welcome to episode 19 of the pinball studio podcast. I'm your host Sterling Martin and today we've got my good friend Michael Thomason. He's a competitive pinball player, an author, and also he held the largest video game collection title for a while. But anyway, let's mention the sponsors. Old Town Pinball. Do you need a new or used pinball machine? Just head over to oldtownpinball.com. Also The Electric Playground. And if you're looking to level up your game room with a new topper, check out their website, teppinball.com. And last but not least, Spooky Pinball. Order your Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Scooby Doo or Looney Tunes today. Just head over to spookipinball.com to learn more. Anyway, welcome to the show, Michael. How's it going, my friend? It's going great and good things are worth the wait. No, I appreciate you coming on the show and man, I'm just glad you found our group all together. How did you find the pinball studio? We were probably balls of steel back then. Yes, I used to live in Savannah in the 90s and I've been trying to get back and when I finally got back, it's hard to find quality pinball machines in good condition. You go to bars and places and the damn flippers don't work or something's, you know, you got screws floating around on the play field. And when I discovered Balls of Steel, I was all excited. Um, yeah. Do you have any favorite pinball places back home in New York? I do. There was a bar called the Pocketeers, actually a billiard hall. And when I first moved to Buffalo around 2002, they had three pinball machines, which was the largest gathering of pinball machines within like a 90 mile radius because pinball was still kind of dead then. Right. And a couple of my friends would meet there. We started up a pinball club and the proprietor asked why we kept showing up. We said, well, you got more machines than anybody. And he said, well, we have a route. We have about four other machines. No one's putting money into them. If we bring them here, will you play them? Right. And we're like, yeah. So then we went from three to seven machines and we're dumping more money. And of course, I have friends that have pinball machines in their basement and their wives are a little tired of us meeting and having tournaments in the house all the time. So we asked if we could have tournaments there in the facility at the Pocketeer and the proprietor Barry said sure as long as you all buy beer and wings and I'm not a drinker but my buddies are and we start having tournaments there and the next thing you know he brings in a few more tables and he's expanded three times over the last two decades. They just forced a restaurant out next door that's been in business for decades just to expand the facility. We've had to update the electricity like three times and we now have about 120 machines running. Damn. It's pretty impressive. And so it's probably my favorite place in the Buffalo area. Yeah. And that's really about all I got. But you know with 120 machines, it's good times. One day I'll be there. I'll have to build like three different expansions, well actually like four different expansions to the building then I can get up to those numbers. Well you only have so much property so you have to build up. Right? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. That was really into it in arcades as well. And he decided to build his home, our home arcade. He built a place in his backyard, two stories, got the fancy carpet with glue and the blue light fillet full of machines. And he's divorced now.
Kurt Andersenperson
Dave Christensenperson
Linda Dealperson
Paul Farisperson
Greg Freresperson
Martyperson
Pocketeer Billiards and Barvenue
Past Times Arcadevenue
Krakow Pinball Museumvenue
Pinball Expoevent
Pinball Pinups: A Visual Celebration of Pinball Art and the Women Who Grace Pinball Back Boxes and Playfieldsproduct
Downright Bizarre Gamesproduct
Controversy Downright Despicable Gamesproduct
Firepowergame
Attack from Marsgame
Arabian Nightgame
Spooky Pinballcompany

high · Michael Thomasson: 'my friend Marty called me up... he figured out how it works... there's modes and rules and objectives and there's a beginning and an end to pinball. And I never knew that until then'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Anecdote of three arcades on one residential street in 1980s New York, plus pinball machines in bowling alleys and funeral parlors, illustrates peak saturation of arcade/pinball culture before decline

    high · Michael Thomasson: 'On my street at one point, we actually had three arcades... arcade machines in funeral parlors and crazy places like that... it was so big'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Michael Thomasson plans multi-volume pinball art series: Vol 1 (Pinball Pinups) focused on women in pinball art; Vol 2 (Pinball Playas) planned for sports-themed machines with male athletes

    high · Thomasson: 'the next book is going to be called Pinball Playas... there's a large absence of sports based games in the book. And that's because I'm holding those for the second volume, which will be about the sports games'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Multiple industry figures (Leonard Herman, Rob Burke) mentored Michael Thomasson and gave critical support—normative pattern of established figures helping emerging authors/creators

    high · Thomasson: Leonard Herman 'became my writing partner, took me under his wing'; Rob Burke 'took me under his wing too' and provided exclusive access to collection

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo serves as major marketplace for pinball-adjacent products (books, art); strong demand for visual/educational materials suggests untapped content opportunity

    high · Michael Thomasson sold 100 copies in 48 hours; scheduled autograph session on day 3 but sold out by day 2; keynote speaker participation

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Emerging cultural shift to recognize and celebrate pinball artists alongside designers—Pinball Pinups book fills historical gap, artists responded positively at Expo

    medium · Thomasson: 'they always talk about the designers... but the artists don't really get their day... [artists] loved it... that made me feel really good because I was a little worried'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Pinball player demographic skews more toward reading/literacy than video game players, based on book sales differential (100 copies in hours vs typical 2-8 copies)

    medium · Michael Thomasson: 'I learned that pinball players are more literate than video game players. And I'm going to get a lot of hell for that.'

    • 3:52
    Well, I'm a bachelor, so there you go. I can somewhat relate. Yeah. So you're a gamer. You're a pinball player, an author, so much more. Um, yeah, where did your whole gaming journey start for you as a kid? I'm assuming you did play games as a kid. I did. I'm old, much older than you, pushing 60. But my first experience with gaming was my brother and sister and I used to hop on our bicycles and cross all the streets we weren't allowed to cross to get to the Dairy Queen. And I had 50 cents saved up to buy my Mr. Misty. And we pull into Dairy Queen and all these people are standing around this hulking box and don't really know what it is, you know. And we peek over and I realize that, you know, this guy's, you know, it's a television. And like, what are these, why are these people so excited about television? Of course, I look down, I see a joystick and the buttons. In a few seconds, I realize this guy's, you know, it's interactive. Right. That was the first time. And I ended up spending my Mr. Misty money on video games that day and then I guess I never stopped. Do you remember which video games it was or is it hard to say? It was the Space Invaders. And I think I'd seen like Grand Track and a few other things before that. Right. You know, just too young to remember. Any pinball? Yeah, I used to play pinball. I was, of course, horrible as a kid. Right. See, I passed on pinball so many times. I remember seeing it, but, you know, I played it a few times. I've played this game a few times, but for the most part, it was like it would just steal my money so quickly. So I'm like, I'm gonna go play this game. Anything with a quarter slot, I have a tendency to be attracted to. If it's got a coin slot, I'm there. If it tells my fortune or shoots a steel ball or has pixels on the screen, I don't care. Right. So after that, I'm assuming you stayed with gaming and you got really, really into it because you had quite the collection of gaming stuff. Yeah, initially, you know, as a kid, you know, I wanted Odyssey 2, but we didn't have the money. I asked for Atari, we didn't have the money. Right. I wanted television, we didn't have the money. Clico Vision comes out, and that one really caught my eye because, you know, it was the closest thing to the real arcade at the time. Clico Vision? Clico Vision. I don't know about that one. Oh, you're killing me. That's like one of the best systems of all time. But anyway, I asked for a Clico Vision, and on Christmas Eve, I'm at my grandparents house and I open up my Presidents a copy of Cosmic Avenger. It was the first video game I ever owned for the Clico Vision. So I was pretty sure I was getting a Clico Vision the next day. But the next day, a Christmas day, I wasn't so lucky. And it's painful because in the Thomason house, we don't wake up and run downstairs and tear through the gifts. Right. We wake up early. We start making a meal. We're de-stringing celery, right? Then we go to mass. We come home. Guests come over. We have lunch. We're going on like around 6 o'clock at night. We open up the gifts and you know, one at a time so we can appreciate them and so at the end of the day, no ClicoVision. I'm distraught. My mom's like, well, you know. So you only got the game? I only got the game with no system to play on. So my mom's like, you know what? You can, we'll return this and you can pick out another toy and I'm like, no, someday I'm going to own a ClicoVision and I read the back of that box in manual every night before going to bed for over a year. That's nuts. You had a video game but you didn't get the console. Yeah, I'm still psychologically scarred from it because I'm talking about it, you know, 50 something years later. Well, did you eventually get the console? A year later on Christmas, not my birthday in between, right, but a year later on Christmas we did and I was living in Lexington, Kentucky at the time and same thing, we don't open the gifts until late at night. The last gift was a ClickOvision because it was the big gift and, you know, at this point, my parents, we've never hooked anything up to a TV before, right, like this is the primitive age. And so my dad's fumbling around, he finally gets the ClickOvision hooked up, we turn on Onk어야 transl fierce annoyingly
    7:59
    JONATHAN MILLENHALL HOME METHOD TESTS Tim Kitzrow, Barry Oursler, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Barry Oursler.
    8:45
    I was a kid, you know, that's babysitting money, right? So I was out to collect all the ClickOvision games and I got close to a complete set and then the whole industry died. No games were made for years. And not long after that, I got my license at age 14, which was unusual, before they changed the laws. And I discovered girls. So I kind of forgot about games and pinball for a while. And then when the girls got tired of me I came back right And I just so about that time my nephew was cleaning house and I offered to help him clean the basement and he's throwing away an Odyssey 2 machine and a Sega Master System. And I'm like, hey, Denny, if you're throwing those away, I always want them. I'd like to have them. He's like, sure, take them. I'm all excited. I played a few games that he gave me. Then I wanted more. And of course, they're all old and the stores don't carry them anymore. I started hitting pawn shops and flea markets. And at that point, you know, people weren't collecting games that was in vogue yet. So the games were like a buck or two dollars a piece. And for a buck, I'll buy anything, right? Just to try it. And I used to dabble with programming. So it was a little bit more of research as well as just for fun. And then the next thing you know, I got the world's largest video game collection certified by Guinness. Where did you accumulate all of this stuff? Well, fortunately I accumulated on the cheap before things got expensive, but flea markets, garage sales, and I was middle management with GameStop for about a decade and a half, and they had a membership plan where you could subscribe to a magazine and get 10% off every purchase, and as an employee I got an additional 20% off. Oh, you were working the system. Well, I'd wait for the buy two get two free sale and then stack my 30% off, so I figured I started out at the end when I had my collection. I had an average of $2.23 per game. Wow. And we're talking 14,000 plus titles. That's crazy. So I did it on the cheap. Did you collect any arcade games or anything? Or was it just like strictly video game? Didn't have the space. I love pinball and I always wanted my own pinball machine, but I'm not mechanical. And you know, every time you play pinball, you're shooting a missile through it, destroying it. Right. So I couldn't do that. I did, before they started making these home pinball machines, I had someone custom make a wide body machine for me. A wide body? A wide body and it was beautiful. And it had the Arabian Nights artwork on the side because that's one of my favorite artwork. And this was a virtual pin, correct? Right. Yep, okay. I was like, someone built you a custom wide body mechanical machine? Oh, from scratch. It was huge. And it was beautiful because it had an accelerometer in it. But I didn't think it through because it was a real story. Like, you know, I love Stern, but they're new tables. They're little light in weight. Like you're playing them and they shake and move and they slide. So this home built machine of mine was really heavy. We put accelerators so the digital ball would move when you shake it or tilted it. The only problem was it was so heavy, the only way I could shake it was to move to the side of it and push it from the side. And of course you can't do that while you're playing. So I didn't think that part through, but other than that, it was awesome. Right. And you're also a writer. You've came out with quite a few gaming books and I purchased one of them from you recently. Thank you, guys. You want to tell us? Yeah, absolutely. I love it. It's a really nice book. Tell us about some of the books and where all of that started and how you got into writing. Well, sure. In the early 2000s, there was a magazine called Classic Gamer Magazine. I got the first issue and I was all excited because I thought I was the only person in the class of gaming, right? This is before the internet really exploded and I realized there were other people with similar hobbies and like mind. And they had a poetry contest where you could win a copy of Leonard Herman's book. It's a Phoenix, The Fall and the Rise of Video Games history book. It was the first video game history book. And you could submit a haiku about video games and if it was chosen you'd win a copy. And I was piss poor back then and I wanted a copy of his book. So I submitted like 20 different goofy video game haikus. I wish I could remember how awful they were. And I didn't win, but I still eventually became friends with Leonard and he became my writing partner, took me under his wing. And we started writing. I started writing for, first I started doing magazine, or artwork for the magazine. Yeah, you did articles for us too. I really, really appreciate you doing that right before I decided to change the name of the group. Yeah, well, so much for promotion. But, yeah, so I've written for probably seven or eight different magazines over the years. I had a column called Just for Kicks, and it was playing off of the video game Kix, Q-I-X, but it's pronounced Kix. And I joke that I've sunk about five or six magazines because I would run a column, that column, in about a magazine for about five or eight issues that go out of business. Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Did you cover, you did something for the Pinball Palace as well, was that also in the same magazine? I did. Sometimes I feature, if I find, if I come across a particularly nice pinball hall, I'll do a feature about it. Right. So I did a piece about the Pinball Palace and about a fellow member Keith about, told the story about how he'd won a pinball machine playing in a tournament at 7-11 back in the, uh, I don't know. Back in the heyday. Yeah, it was like the 50s or something. It was before my time. So maybe 60s. I think it was the 70s, yeah. I just have a passion for pinball and I love it. And of course, I've done a few video game books, but my most recent book that's game-related was Pinball Pinups and the subtitle is A Visual Celebration of Pinball Art and the Women Who Grace Pinball Back Boxes and Playfields. Yeah, it's a really nice book and the quality of the book too. Whoever prints your books, man, they do a hell of a job. Did you do all the pictures yourself? I did. Because the pictures are awesome. Well, yeah, I traveled the world, not specifically to take pictures for the book. Right. But I found myself in Poland and I came across the Krakow Pinball Museum, so there's an opportunity, right? And so I took pictures and then once I started working on the book, I was at a place in Girard, Ohio that's run by Rob Burke and he's in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the The pinball machine is the largest pinball collection and he has a place there called The Past Times. And he's taken me under his wing too and he was really great because he let me come in on days they were closed. He gave me keys so I could take the glass off so I could get good pictures without reflection. He let me dim the lights and of course he has a beautiful and huge collection. So I was able to get a lot of artwork there but when I was in South America I took pictures of pinball machines there. Arnold Erikson Titления
    16:25
    I'm actually thinking that some of the original artists wouldn't be happy with what I'm doing with their work, right? Because I'm kind of changing some of it, moving things around. But you know, I was at the Pinball Expo this past summer and had them autograph their entries and they loved it. So, that made me feel really good because I was a little worried. But, yeah, Doug Watson wrote the Ford and of course he's famous for doing a lot of machines and good artwork, especially you know, Attack from Mars, which is one of my favorites. Like you said, you know, you kind of moved around some of the artwork and stuff, but it all flows well with the book. It looks great to me. Well, I used to be an animator. I was... Did you do all the layout too of like all these pages? I did the writing. I did the layout. What? I did...my wife was my editor. Okay. But other than the editing, it's all me from beginning to end. I used to do...I did about eight or nine college textbooks and I hated the way they treated the books. David Van Es, Pinball Machine, I really enjoyed each and every book as someone that used to be an animator for two studios to see them, what they were doing to my work was just killing me. So I started doing independent press and self publishing so that I could control every element and do exactly what I wanted. Because I wanted to make a beautiful book. There are some great pinball books out there, they're great resources, but no offense they're ugly. They're just ugly, you know.
    17:52
    This book really draws you in, you just open it up and you're like whoa this is such a colorful book. Well, and it is full of good content material, so, you know. Oh, it is. I haven't read the whole thing, but I've definitely read pieces of it. I've learned stuff on every page for sure. Well, I was happy. Rob Burke, I told you it has the world record. I gave him an early copy to look over and he's like, I'm Mr. Pinball. Like, you know, I'm learning stuff from your book. How did you find this out? Because I can't believe that there was this much information I didn't know. Anchor Dave Kkembe, Hannah Van East He knows pinball so if I can impress him I should be able to impress just about anybody in the hobby Now how many years did it take to put this thing together Two. Two years? No, too many. Oh, too many. I'm sure the pictures took many years. No, this project probably about just shy of three, but it was supposed to be my easy book. But what I didn't realize, even though I had these really high quality photos that I took, Mark You know, these machines are from the forties and the fifties and, you know, the back glass up against those old light bulbs that were, you know, incandescent, that ink would, the ink printing would burn and it would crack. Yeah, flake off. And it looks great from a distance but then when I would zoom into parts, I'm like, oh, this, I can't, so I was in Photoshop and Affinity just like cleaning everything. Okay, because I'm like, everything in here looks mint. Yeah, well, if you look closer you'll see some of it doesn't but I did the best merkelberg The Artwork is coming from machines in the 50s and 60s. It's really quite modest. But there's a few iffy things in there that might want to look a little closer. Hey, you didn't make the artwork. You just featured it. I made the montage. So when people comment me on how great the artwork is, I'm like, I'm not an artist, but you know, I wanted to pay homage to the art. It's like you have all these pinball books and they always talk about the designers, how great the designers are. And they are great designers, but the artists don't really get their day. I agree. In the back of the book I have a section where I cover the particular artists that are featured in the book. And I call it the illustrious illustrators, the hands behind the pens and the paint brushes. And I talk about Kurt Anderson and Dave Christensen and just all the greats and even some of the more obscure ones, but Linda Deal. There's just great artists. All the way up to Jeremy Packer. Yep. Old and modern, but you know, I like Paul Ferris a lot and Greg Ferris and there's just, there's just amazing art that these people have created and it doesn't get its due. And this book was a hit at the expo because, you know, there's an autograph session on the third day. And I was supposed to be in there selling my books, but I sold out in the first couple hours of the second day. But the idea was people could buy the book and then they could take it around. John Popadiuk, Director, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Barry Oursler. And I didn't really know what to expect for pinball because this is my first pinball book. And I go to these cons. I typically sell two to eight copies of a gaming book. Well, I took 100 copies of this pinball book to the expo because it really had nothing else to sell. And I sold out almost instantly. And I'm like, I learned that pinball players are more literate than video game players. And I'm going to get a lot of hell for that. Now, I think you did a wonderful, wonderful job. Are you going to go back to Expo and take more books this year? Are you going to sit this one out? Well, I'm in the process of moving and there's a lot of ifs with moving, so I don't think I'm going to make the Expo this year, but I hope to. This is actually supposed to be part of a series. You know, it's funny when I was doing my keynote talk at the Expo, towards the end, some feminists kind of shot at me during the question and answer session. And, you know, what I should have told them is, you know, the next book is going to be called Pinball Playas.
    22:42
    No, it is. And if you look through the book, there's a large absence of sports based games in the book. And that's because I'm holding those for the second volume, which will be about the sports games, pinball sports games. OK. Which, of course, billiards is a whole bunch of that. Right. And cards are considered sports. But, you know, there's basketball and everything else. And most of the artwork on those machines are men playing sports, not all of them. Right. Got a lot of pool and gambling games. Right. Yeah. Right. So I'll be curious to see if there's men that come after me on my next keynote speech. Well, I mean, you're just showing off machines that were made in the past. I mean, you didn't come up with this artwork or anything. Nobody should be mad at you for just sharing history. Well, that's what I told them. I said, hey, don't shoot the messenger. I said, I'm a historian, I'm a reporter. People have no problem playing these games, you know, and talking trash about the artists that created these games. We're just all monsters. Yeah. No, you did a great job, man. You're just showing off another piece of history. I can't wait for the next book. And I gotta check out some of your other gaming books. You wanna touch on those a little bit? Yeah, sure. I always had eclectic taste with gaming. And when I was working retail in the game industry and even at the consumer electronic shows and stuff, you know, people buy what's advertised going into Christmas and I got so tired of selling awful games, right? When the great games are sitting on the shelves and no one's buying them. So my first solo book about gaming was Downright Bizarre Games, video games that cross the line. So it's about the weird and strange in gaming and a lot of it really shocks people. So what was really popular was inside I had a section, a chapter about just bizarre advertising in the industry. You know, there were stories where they advertised on gravestones in cemeteries for a game called Shadow Man. For one of the Resident Evils in England, they decided to have a scavenger hunt and they soaked fake skeleton bones in like chicken broth to give them that special smell and hid them around London. Right? But the problem is they didn't advertise that this promotion was going on. So people are stumbling along skulls in the city. They're calling up the police. It's causing all this hoopla. And what's funny and kind of scary statement on mankind is in the end, not all the bones were found and turned in, which means some people found skulls and femurs and decided, I'm just going to keep this and keep my mouth shut. Wow. So there's just a lot of bad decisions that were made in the gaming industry. You know, whenever a new media pops up, there's a lot of experimentation. Like in the modern age of gaming, you don't get that because it's such a billion dollar industry now. But back in the early days when it was, you know, one to four guys making a game and you can make it relatively cheap, you know, there was a lot of experimentation. And because of that, you get a lot of really weird stuff. Right. In my follow-up book, which was a lot of fun because I was the original video game professor. In the 90s, there was a guy named Bill Kunkel and he started a video game magazine called Electronic Games. He was one of three that started up and he was the first video game journalist. In the 90s, we wrote a syllabi together. He was teaching at University of Arizona and I was teaching in Kentucky at Asbury. We'd walk into a college university and say, hey, I want to teach a course on video games and video game history. You know, they'd look at me like I have a second head, right? You know, you know, now it's accepted, right? But back 30 years ago, it was a hard sell. And so I teach my gaming classes and what my students always seem to like at the university are the strange stories. And, you know, they're always talking about controversy. Like you always hear the same argument. Do video games cause violence? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I decided to tackle that on. And this was hard for me because I'm an advocate for gaming. I've spent my whole life talking about this great hobby and how it's healthy and it's good. But with everything that's good, there's always something bad, right? So I basically wrote a book about the worst things in the industry. And I called it Controversy Downright Despicable Games. And the subtitle is Video Games that Triggered Rants, Rage, Dissent, and a Whole Lot of Hullabaloo. And some of the information is innocent, some of it's misunderstanding, some of it's political, and some of it's just downright awful. So, so you may not like what you read, you may be disgusted by what you read, but you will be entertained. Yeah, you didn't do it, you just wrote what happened. That's what I tell everybody. You're just telling the story. Don't shoot the messenger, right? And again, it was a tough book to write, you know, so it's not for kids. Definitely not for kids. Do not buy this book for kids. Rated Mature. You should put one of those Mature gaming logos on there. I want to do that, but that's actually trademarked. No shit. Yeah the ESRB owns those markings Well we can make a similar one I think I stay away from the lawsuits They don own the word So I just stick with the warning on the website Yeah I guess Have you ever thought about writing like a fictional novel type book? Years ago, two friends and I wrote a military science fiction book based on the classic video game of Gyruss. The book was like nearly 400 pages and this is a video game that has like eight levels. It's a shooter and it lasts maybe a few minutes. So we took a lot of liberties. And yeah, video game players just, I guess they don't like to read or I don't know. You got to put it on book on tape or I guess it's not book on tape. And it had a great cover. I'm a good artist. It had a great cover. Did they have all these awesome pictures like this one? No, no. It's just a straight fiction textbook. You got to have the pictures. That's what the gamers need. My partners did most of the writing. I did the artwork and marketing and stuff. So did the book, like, did y'all actually make the book and put it out? Oh, we did. I have hundreds of them in my basement. Would you like a copy? Yeah, yeah, I'll take one. Because I can't get rid of them. You know, I'm in the process of moving. I'm just like giving them away at this point. Take some, bring some to the next tournament. It's a discount book. I got so many, I'm going to have to pay people to take them. Damn. So I guess that one didn't work out as well as the pinball pin-ups. You know, well, I owned a game publishing company for years. I was one of the original homebrewers, which is where you make new games for old systems. Yeah. And I started doing that in the 90s. And at one point, I was the largest distributor of homebrew games in the world. And I had a website, gooddealgames.com, which a friend of mine now operates and runs. I've kind of stepped away and retired from it. But I love pinball. You want to talk about pinball? Well, yeah, because, you know, we had a little arcade at one point in the 80s when arcades were everywhere. And, you know, the joke was because there are actually arcade machines in funeral parlors and crazy places like that. It was so big. And on my street at one point, we actually had three arcades on my street that I grew up on. But I would go to a bowling alley called Southing Bowling Lanes and they had a couple of pinball machines. And I played pinball. I dabbled in it. I liked it, but I didn't really understand it. And then one day, my friend Marty called me up all excited. I was like, man, you gotta come down, you gotta check this out, they got a machine here called Fire. And he's like, I figured out how it works, and he really taught me that, you know, that there's modes and rules and objectives and there's a beginning and an end to pinball. And I never knew that until then. And so, at that point, I really got absorbed in it, and I was so good at that machine. I mean, I could go with, I didn't have any money at that time, you know, I'd go there with a dollar and I'd play for hours. so good on that machine and the way and walk away with credits you know four or five credits left on the machine for the next player That game kicks my ass now. Well, it's very different from most other pinball machines because you know it doesn't have bumpers it's a different layout but that's what upset me is when I came back to the pinball studio this year and there was a fire machine. I was all excited, right? It's a hard machine to find I don't see it even when I go to pinball shows very often yeah so I go to it I'm ready to tear it apart kicks my ass right And all season long I've been playing on your fire machine and it's well maintained and I can't hardly touch what I used to be able to do with it. And I don't know if I've just gotten older or slower or what, but I'm not happy about it. Yeah, there's no extra balls, but I mean that's only one piece of the pie. Maybe it's set steeper, I don't know. So I thought it would help me in the tournament standings, but it has not. No, no, fire always kills me in every tournament I feel like. Speaking of fire, it's funny, someone reached out to me, was it yesterday? Yesterday or the day before. They want to rent it for a Bradley Cooper movie. That and Strikes and Spares. Oh, you got to do it. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, hell yeah. Somewhere in Savannah. I think it's 100%. We'll see. Like, I shot him a quote that was kind of high, like, because my buddy's like, dude, like hammer him on it. I'm like, all right, because he works in special effects. And they kind of had like a problem with the delivery. I'm like, can we like come get them ourselves and cut that delivery cost out? And I'm like, nobody's moving the pinball machines but me. But I'll give you a little discount on the on the delivery. Well, hopefully it works out. We'll see. We'll see. Maybe maybe I got too greedy. I don't know. My buddy's like hammer them. Have you have you seen good pinball movies? No, I don't even play. Yeah, actually, I do like the Roger Sharp movie a lot. That one's good. What's the this is just going to be in the background. I highly doubt they even touch them. It's probably some guy in the background, like he might play it for a second. They're setting a time period is why they want them. But there are some some pinball movies. I like the one with the young Brooke Shields. I can't think of the title of it. We need to look it up. But
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    it's has a decent soundtrack, too. OK, I'll check that one out. I don't think I've seen that. She's like 13 or 14 years old, like really early. I should have come prepared. Shame on me. No, you're good. I didn't know where we'd wander. So I can tell you a funny story about the Black Knight, which is my favorite machine of all time. Yeah, go ahead. Which one? There's many. The first one. The first one. The original one. Okay. And a friend used to live on the other side of the block from me, and his dad had a Black Knight in his basement. And he was my friend, and I generally liked him, but, you know, he'd invite me to spend the night sometimes like kids do. And, you know, my goal is I want to play this machine, but they're so used to it and played all the time, they were kind of bored with it. So I'd be there all night like, let's play pinball, let's play pinball. I was a kid, you know, that used to play pinball. I hardly ever got to play pinball. When I did, they kicked my butt because they owned it and then they were good at it. And then a few years later, his father built this section, this add-on to the house for plants and stuff, and it had one of those ceilings that opens up on the top so the teenager in me… Shame on me, right? When I'd see them all go out for a day trip, I'd climb the roof of their house, jump down in through the plant opening, walk down to the basement, play black night for four Thomas Thompson, I was watching a copy of the magazine and I didn't know how his father was going to react, but he was pretty cool with it. He's like, I had no idea. And I'm like, phew, right? And he didn't beat me, so I had a happy ending.
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    That's awesome. What's your favorite modern game or do you have a favorite modern like Stern or JJP or something? Well, I like Godzilla a lot. I like the machine a lot, but I've always had an affinity for giant rubber monsters. I've seen every Godzilla movie and they're all awful, but I keep watching them anyway. So I watched a lot of them as a kid. I don't think I hardly paid attention, but I just like seeing monsters like destroy cities, I guess. Yeah. Shame on us. But but I like that. I guess that's considered modern. It's modern to me. But yeah, definitely. Absolutely. And, you know, the new Guns and Roses by Jersey Jack, the fancy model with the upper level and stuff. Yeah, I don't like it all. But the cheap model with the awful artwork on the side plays great. Like the machine, that's like, if I can find the cheaper model that's got the open playfield, it plays so much better than the fancier, more expensive machine. I've only played Guns N' Roses probably five times ever, and I don't know what models I was playing. Probably the C, the expensive one. Yeah, that one looks cooler because it's got the guitar head on the top, you know, but you want the model without that, and it plays so much better. I prefer the pro because I don't like the magna slings. It gets a little too crazy. Like, it's fun and casual play, but you're playing in a tournament and the magnet just like slings the ball and outland and you're like, you feel cheated. You feel cheated. Yeah. So I prefer the pro just for that. So when I lose tournaments, I'll blame that feature. Yeah. You know, that's why I lost. Should have had the premium. Would have thrown it back on the playfield. It's all your fault. I hate you, Sterling. I know. I'm so mean. Yeah, well thank you so much for coming on the show man, it's been fun. Definitely buy a copy of Pinball Pin Ops. Please do. Yeah, tell them how to get a hold of you and how to buy all your books and yeah. Okay, well I have a website where I sell not my college textbooks but my self-published books like we talked about today. It's MichaelThomason.com. It's very boring. I was going to call it Monster Stomp Books, but I chickened out at the last minute. But I should note out that Thomason is spelled T-H-O-M-A-S-S-O-N. Yes. And just remember it's got the word ass in the middle of it, so you won't forget how to misspell it from this point forward. Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. And if you need to get a hold of me, you can email me, sterling at thepinballstudio.com. And until next time, we will see you later.
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    Out today on a batэтt. wounded summit fold