🎵 Hello everyone and welcome to episode 20 of the Classic Pinball Podcast. My name is George and I'm here with my co-host Dave. Hello Dave. Hello George and a Merry Christmas to you. And a Merry Christmas back to you. Today, I thought we might take a little bit of an adventure back in time. We're on the precipice of a new decade. So, you know, people tend to look back a year, in some cases 10 years. Well, I'd like to go back 20 years to just before the start of the new millennium. I heard on another podcast someone talk about the latest topper from Stern that goes on a Star Wars. And the retail cost of that, if you could probably get one, would be $750. So 20 years ago, pretty much coincides with when I started collecting. And I said to myself, I'm wondering out of all the games I bought, how many would come under the $750? Yeah. Now, I don't – A lot. Right. Well, you've been collecting a lot longer than I have. So I'm not going to ask you to go through all 50 or whatever games you have. My list got down to nine games, and one of the nine is, I'll explain. So why don't I get us started? I'll go to you, come back to me, and then if you want to finish up, and we'll kind of bounce back and forth. Sure. So, okay. the first game i ever bought was fireball classic and i know i overpaid it was broken i bought it from a plumbing supply house down on the south shore somewhere six hundred dollars overspent but newbie didn't know anything the shiny new toy got in the way number two your neck of the woods uh worcester saturday morning cold garage door open eight o'clock in the morning there in a pile of leaves in the what would be the back or, you know, where the front of your car would be, the back of the garage. And a pile of leaves was a Mata Hari. She wanted five. I offered three. The classic line was, how fast can you have it out of here? Yeah. I've heard that before. $300. No, that's not the first time that's happened to me either. But that was a $300 one. I'm trying to go through the list here. The embryon we talked about in our last show. I think $300, $350. We went through that. So what's that? Three games? Let's see what's else on the list. Oh, how about from North Shore, Mark? Help me. Mark Ross, right. $400 Medusa. No longer have it, but that was a pretty inexpensive game. Not great, but a good player game. And then the famous one. And I'm wondering if I told this story before, Dave. when I went to pick up xenon and I was using GPS in the western part of New Hampshire, and it led me to the top of this hill, and there was this beautiful farm. I mean, you could see forever. I mean, you could understand why the person picked this piece of property probably 100 years ago. But I started going down this leaf-covered, quote-unquote, road, and then realized, yeah, it's a road. It's a logging road with wet leaves and it had just snowed. So there was like an inch of snow on the ground. I'm like, oh, please get me out of here. This will be a bad story if I get stuck. Got out of there, went to the person's home, finally found it. And I'm walking into the house and it walked into the basement. at the bottom of the steps were piles, at least knee-deep, of dirty clothes on a filthy, dirty... The whole basement was just disgusting. And it's like, okay, here we go. Game's in the back. It was through a myriad of garbage. Finally get to the game. I'm like, oh, this will be tight, but I can get it open and done. Get the game open. pull the glass off, start disassembling, and the guy's like, oh, that's how that works. $300 later, that was marching out the back door by myself. But those are my first five. Every game I bought was under the cost of a topper at $750. You say? I say I can go a couple more better than that. Let's see. Let's start with this is like 90s. So we'll go with Galaxy, one of the first ones I ever got. It was, I think, sort of working, maybe not all the way. And it's a one-add thing, if anybody remembers the one-add years ago. And I think the guy, yeah, listed for like, I don't know, like $200. And I said, I don't know, so make me an offer. So I offered stupidly high, I offered $170. And he goes, really? Okay, I'll take it. Way too fast. I could have gone for probably $50. But that's one. Let's see. Then there's Fathom. That was $250 working. Oh, you're making people cry. Oh, yeah. How about the Quicksilver I got? That was, I think, $175 for working Quicksilver. Rub it in with a couple more Stern games. All right, how about a Flight 2000 for $2.25? Silver Oil Mania, my wife found it at an estate sale. They said it was working. They wanted, I think, $300 for it. They turned around and it wasn't working, so my wife said, how's $200? They wanted $250. We said, no, $200. And they took it. Beautiful Silver Oil Mania for $200. Just need a little bit of repair to get that going. So to interrupt, did you continue, I know you continue to buy games today, but did you continue to collect into the early part of the century? Oh, I did. You have the 2000s I did as well. What else did I get back then? Imanahari, no, that was a little more than 700. That was a real nice one. That was in the early 2000s. Back then, oh, okay, yeah. Sea Witch. Sea Witch, working Sea Witch, $500. working nine ball, $500. I said quite $2,000 already. Oh, recently, Stars, sort of working, about five years ago, $300. Let's see. What else we got there? A top score, I think $150. What else did I get? Oh, Xenon. Xenon working $50. $50. $50. Oh, how about this? Eight Ball Deluxe, the original version, 1901, that's very desirable. One ad in this guy's garage, wall fam. Playfield kind of shot, but working. And that was $300 for that one. That's incredible. When you think back, right, and, you know, a fair amount of pinballs have been produced, you know, in the last 20 years, let's face it. It's wild how much all these prices have grown for the majority of the titles we just mentioned. Even with inflation, they've probably done better than inflation. You'd probably agree with that, wouldn't you? They have. Better than the stock market, better than inflation. I lost my shirt in the stock market, in the pinball market. I just wish I just put all my money in the pinball market and didn't even go to the stock market. You know, just put a little bit of sweat equity in these games and restore them up and you make it some good cabbage. Right. I mean, most entry-level games today, and this person that was on another podcast, I think they bought, would a Firepower or a Blackout go for under $750? If it was a player's game, if it wasn't a showcase game. Yeah, you probably can score under $800, $700. Yeah, somebody's looking to move a non-working or a game that needs a little love. Yeah. You don't see them often. I mean, there was one. The guy wouldn ship either It was on the pin side recently What Bollywood got Oh Lost Cause Oh a nice Lost World Bollie Lost World $400. That's working. Working. I mean, that's cheap. Oh, that reminds me. Paragon. This guy Chuck from Rhode Island was dealing with a lot of games back at that time, probably early 2000s. and it scored a nice Paragon, beautiful back glass, beautiful cabinet, original colors and nice and red, and play feels pretty nice and working, and that was two and a quarter for Paragon. Wow. Let me interject. I've got a couple more, and then I'll let you finish. I bought a Harlem for $400 from my buddy John Toth. Let's see. Bobby Orr for $400 that was somewhere in Connecticut by Hartford The Night Rider, I think I've talked about this one before at Allentown, coated in white mold, nobody would go near it for $100 Supersonic nearby here in southern New Hampshire, $300 that I probably paid a little bit more than I should have but I was on a wacky streak then I was buying anything that moved So, you know, now you're looking, it's few and far between when you see a Bali game or a Stern game for that matter for sale. And if so, you know, the prices are high. Definitely. What else did I get back then? I got a Stargazer for pretty short money. I think I did some kind of repair deal for the guy who had a Stargazer. I think he said, prepare my game or a couple of my games. But that's when I first started getting into doing, you know, way back when I first started. So, you know, I did an okay job, but, you know, sort of barely got it running kind of thing. I think I did two like that. And he said, you can have a pick of any of these games in my warehouse. I looked around. All of a sudden I saw I was dark out, and I looked at the flashlight, and I saw it looked like the Stargazer woman in the back. I used to go, that one right there, dude. No, I remember you had told that story before, but yeah, I remember that one. That's a good one. I have one too, a long-distance one, and I think you've heard this story before. Bought the hot dog-ins from Mike in Mississauga, Ontario. He runs the Church of the Silver Ball, and he used to go to Allentown, And he was selling two hot doggings, two hot doggins with new old stock playfields and I believe one, maybe two back glasses or I don't remember. I bought a back glass on the open market. Can't remember. but we had traveled my buddy Jack and I from West Point Island New Jersey out on the coast to Rochester New York and back to pick up those games in one day we left at like four o'clock in the morning and we're back like six or seven o'clock at night that was the craziest that was the craziest time I ever had going to get a game and those were maybe I don't know 500 bucks they weren't cheap at the time but i was able to also find new old stock uh plastics two sets believe it or not so we had two beautiful games until one of his got soaked in sandy back in 2012 and you've heard me talk about that before so oh yeah so that game even though it's got a you know a clear-coded play field and a lot of other things. A lot of money was put into that game. It's certainly not an under $750 game today, but when I bought it, it was. Those were the days of the road trips where I actually was so hungry to buy pinball machines that I remember taking just like you did. An all day long trip. I think we went to Jersey, Pennsylvania. I don't know, it was like a five-hour trip, and one way. I went to go pick up another Xenon, and the thing was working, a really nice one, working, and I think that was like 500 bucks for that one. Then the other time, go up to Rochester, New York, for a big trip again, it's another long trip for a big game, that was 300 bucks. and the father still went away for was a a Bally Mystic up in Toronto and we went all the way up there and that was $800 for a nice condition working Bally Mystic Oh you just had me remember another story one of my earliest games it might have been game number 2 now that I think about it was a skateball I bought from Calgary Ontario all the way on the other side of Canada. And the guy worked for a coffee company, and they shipped product cheap into Montreal. So I took a day off from work. I forgot completely about this. And went to the Montreal airport to pick this game up at a loading dock. and the game was on the loading dock but i'm in a pickup truck or i'm in maybe my ford explorer ford explorer that was it and i'm like how am i going to get the game from the loading dock down to ground level well ingenious george goes and finds the forklift driver hands him a 10 or a 20 and bought him some cigarettes and said would you come and push my game down from here down to here guy was so excited it was like zoom done but i was i didn't even think about that when i bought the game but came across they looked at it i didn't i've heard some stories of you know getting stopped at the border and that's what i was going to ask you did they hassle you coming back across with the game they did a little bit they said hey what's back they said the pinball machine said well it was made in america i'm just bringing it back and they looked a little bit at it and and he was kind of curious, but, you know, didn't spend too long with it. It was fine. I don't know about nowadays, but back then it wasn't too bad, you know, getting through. Oh, they'd think you'd be smuggling people or bombs or something across. I mean, and quite frankly, I don't blame them for asking you to open it up, but all you really have to do is open up the coin door, unless they really freak out and want you to get the back glass, and you've got it stuffed in the car. You know what I'm saying. And now, do you want the gorillas, you know, wrestling your really nice machine out of the back of your car? No way. I'll take care of it for you, dude. Well, if they'd let you, you know, again. Again, I would never do it. I wouldn't travel to Canada to buy a game. It's just, after the stories I've heard, it's like, I don't think I would do it any longer. Yeah, I don't need to now. I pretty much got all the games I need or want. I did anything I still want. It's local. Like, for instance, I didn't think I needed or wanted a blackout, a Williams blackout, or a Firepower, but they found me. And I kind of, for Williams, I'm not a big classic Williams guy, but there's some titles they made that I do like. And Firepower and Blackout are two of them. Also Alien Poker. Those are three nice classic Williams. Right, but you'll fix them up. It's like rent for you. You'll use them, and then at some point in time, I'm sure you'll set them adrift, and something else comes into your hands. I mean, you seem to part with everything, but you do move some games. Speaking of that, I just did move something, and I seem every Christmas season, or even Christmas Eve. Tell me it was Kiss. No, it was not KISS. I figured I don't usually have to market games that much to sell them. Usually they just go, but KISS, it seems like I don't have to market that one. I don't have to really put that on my website and kind of showcase it to get that to go. But what did go is my Galaxy, the Galaxy that I've had forever, one of my first games I ever bought. Real nice, restored condition, dual stock back glass, beautiful, everything on it. And, yeah, I just delivered that last night. She's going to put a big blanket over for her kids for Christmas morning, and they're going to turn it on and play. I was very happy with that. So it was kind of bittersweet to see it go. But I justified it saying, well, I'm letting go of the first game with a GI flasher, which is Stern Galaxy, and I made way for the second game with a GI flasher, which is Blackout. So Blackout's my new galaxy. you'll get rid of it you'll get rid of it? I'm going to get rid of Blackout? yes, absolutely it's only a matter of time you'll put it in the lineup for a while and you'll say hey look at this the shiny object and somebody will come along and offer you money and you'll take it and you'll buy something else and fix it that's what you do John will beg to differ with you John thinks that's one of the best classic Williams out there. I mean, it doesn't mean it's going to be tomorrow or next week or next month. I'm just saying at some point in time because most of what you own is, you know, two manufacturers and one era. You do have some periphery games, but not a lot. Yeah, I know, but see, that's the thing. I'd like to have a couple of periphery, like a couple you know old school Williams a couple old school Gottlieb Okay see you accused me of changing Hey I am warming up so to speak to warm retro LEDs in some of this stuff sparingly especially in the Rampers The Rampers I can get away with. It looks fine. But even some, I've been known to actually put in a couple of warm LEDs into like Superman, for instance. and even a couple in the galaxy I just let go. I put a couple choice red LEDs here and there that made sense. Hey, boy. What you say, boy? You trying to play court like a game boy? Wait, you want to talk about Lizzo? No. No. No. No, and I haven't yet watched the whole Eddie Murphy thing. So I only watched one and it was pretty funny. Mr. Robinson's Neighborhood. I always laugh at that. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. A beautiful day for a neighbor. Could you be mine? Would you be mine? Current events today, because we kind of talked about it the other day when you were Grinching. That's Rick and Morty and now Stranger Things. yeah yep i'm actually psyched to play both those games i like both things i i put money in either one of them uh or a lot of money in either one of them i'm wondering if in fact you will see rick and morty out in the wild somewhere the two things that are distinct in one in each game and if you look at the games they're kind of the same you know fan layout which one of the podcasters who will go unnamed thought it was because of fanboys i'm like a fan layout is like a you know can you even say a japanese fan the one that fans out that's because there are certain lanes or areas to shoot on a playing field. That's why it's called a fan layout. Like a peacock fan, like a peacock. There you go. This guy like that, you know. He thought it was because people were fans of the game. What, the podcaster did? Yes. Well, that's kind of dumb. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, I heard a lot of, that was one. So, you've got a really cool mech on the Rick and Morty game, which is this Denise Lock 2.0, which looks sort of like the horseshoe on a Silver Ball Mania. And I'm sure you could name five more machines that have that same horseshoe effect. TNA, TNA. Correct. That's a Denise Lock. Think of a horseshoe with a target on each end of the horseshoe and shooting balls into that, although I have not seen a video with it doing it or how it traps it. But that looked really neat. But I'm drawing a comparison to the other game, which is Stranger Things, which I have not seen. So I really don't know anything about that franchise. but they have a drive-in movie screen with four targets in front of it. And then this thing called a Demogorgon. Is that what it's called? Yes, that's the monster in the game. Right. Deity or demon. I had to go look it up. They call it the monster. But picture this. You've got four drop targets. You've got the screen that opens up to this monster thing. so if you look at both of these games in my opinion and I'll put money in both I think you know they both have cool graphics and all the other jazz but it's a fan layout and the middle of the game has a mech one is the Denise Lock 2.0 one is this drive-in movie theater thing that's it those are the games well the drive-in movie theater thing is kind of cool they have a projector down below underneath the apron. Have you seen that work yet? Yes. Oh yeah? Where? There's a video out there. There's a video out there of the game. And how did it look? It looked good. It looked interesting. They kind of can change, like, the name of the drop targets is a four-letter name. I forget the character's name. Will. Will. There you go. It says Will, but once you get the targets down, all of a sudden I think they pop up and now different names on there. Like Rick? like Rick Rick and Morty exactly so you're getting where I'm coming from the games are kind of interchanged I just look at them both and I say you know what you could change the franchise from one game to the other and it would be the same thing sorry that's me right yeah I'm just amazed people are still buying new and no one's really solved the old play field clear coat issues and all that stuff yet. So I don't know. I haven't even seen either one of these games or played them. The only people who have played them are the people who have them on stream and they get them early. Other than that, you're buying a game pretty much blind. I don't know if I would ever do that. CERN's already shipping Stranger Things Pros. They're shipping them. Right, but it doesn't have that projector thing in it. Oh, it doesn't? I didn't know that. Oh, no, no, no. The Pro model doesn't have that thing in it. Oh, well that kind of blows. on each one of these games. And somebody will disagree with me, and you're allowed. Yeah. Yeah, but what I'm really looking forward to, the best thing about modern pinball is the topper. For $750. Yes. Well worth it. When does it go pop? When are there no more chairs to sit down in? The game is, it seems like it's getting rich. I mean, these guys are bold, too. Let's just put out games nobody's seen or played before. The version of software is .6. But they'll still buy it. Lemmings, all. I don't know. I just. Well, some people need to have their materialistic. They got to have the latest and greatest thing. And, you know, look what I got. I got the latest and greatest thing. Look at my shiny bauble. I live in a different world. I was trying not to be so critical. It is the holiday season. then I should probably be a lot nicer. I should probably be a lot nicer. We should put our nice stockings on. No, I'll put my reindeer antlers on. You can put on your holiday poop emoji hat, and we'll sing Christmas carols and watch the Yule Log on TV, drink a couple of IPAs. Now we're talking. Well, that's right after this. I don't know if there's... I don't want to be mean to anybody. It's just... That's my thoughts. I'm just expressing my thoughts. It's been a very... It's been a very pinball-rich couple of weeks. It's all in fun, so, you know, you're going to be able to take a joke. Yeah, no. See, I did. You didn't say anything. I said yeah, no. Oh. I didn't quite catch, you know, like I said before, I've seen that on TV when I watch, I don't really watch TV much, but I saw some newscasters saying that. It's like, oh, that's where it's coming from. And speaking of TV, where's our friend? How come your show hasn't been on? I just talked to him the other day, and he said that he just finished editing a couple days ago. He wanted a couple more pictures because there were some holes in it that when I'm talking on the thing, he wanted to show a couple pictures going by while I'm talking. So I sent him some more stuff I had in the archives. And now he's saying he's shooting for first week in January. But we'll see. When I finally get a firm date, I'll let you know. But I'm in constant contact with him. He really liked the picture I sent him the other day. He was like, wow, I want that place. Oh, that's what we talked about. Yeah, that's great. Oh, yeah. I sent him some eye candy. Good, good. Well, I look forward to that, even though I'm going to be heading out of town early in that week. I'll make sure my recorder's on just in case. Yeah, me too. I've got to record it too. We've got to have that. Yeah. Still in a, you know, once I find out, I definitely want a watch party, so I'll be sending out some invites to the watch party. I'll tune in via whatever. Right. A satellite. Telephone. By balloon. Would you like to end the program giving some thanks and maybe some predictions moving forward? Sure. Well let me start with an observation lately I finding a lot of I get some good good high clientele and more often than not it weird but they have Monopoly games Isn't that kind of weird? You mean the game Monopoly? The game Monopoly, the Star Monopoly from 2003. No, that was part of our show back in the summer when we went to Fun Spot. I just worked on another one. I worked on a bunch of these lately. They're relatively inexpensive given the cost of a new pinball. You know what sucks about them, though, is the name. Oh, I knew that was coming. But you agree, right? I've seen them for $2,000, $2,500, usually sub $3,000 on any one of those games. and usually they're in decent shape. The Stern White Star board set, it's a good board set, but unfortunately when these people bought these games brand new in 2003, no one told them to change the batteries. So I've been, or clean it, nothing. So I've been seeing lately a lot of alkaline damage from these batteries toasting the main board, which guess what, is made of unobtainium. you cannot buy the main board. Oh, nobody's remanufactured that board? Stern did about 500 of them about a year or so ago, and then those sold out, and they were going for like 500 bucks for an MPU board, and they sold out real quick, and now you can't get one. And they can't remanufacture the board because of the ROHS thing and different chips that'll make them in that version, so it's a cost prohibitive to make the board again. So now, you know. So no wonder the game is so inexpensive, knowing that it's got a finite life. As Don Pennant said, they lost the technology and it's too expensive to build it back again. And too painful. Well, you just did a public service announcement. I never had heard that before, but anybody who listens to the podcast, buyer beware. I'd like to thank the people who first came on our show Dave second show nobody knew who we were and it was all the people from your best in play contest at Pentastic yes so I'd like to thank Ryan McQuaid Mark Seidman, Benjamin Miner Dave Matrando and Frank Rothdeutsch for coming on and it's actually one of the most listened to shows we have so I wanted to thank all those people because they had no idea they knew who you were but they had no idea who I was so I thought that was pretty good I'd also like to thank Keith Christensen from Texas great show down in Houston. Who could forget our recurring guest, Eric Stone? He's kind of become a fixture, number 13 in the world. Hopefully, I don't think he's traveling to California, but hopefully we'll see him soon. Raman Cromwell, who we just spoke about. Get Dave's episode out so we can see that. Dave, I'd like to thank you and Maureen as well. Well, I guess a little bit over a half a year recording and we've got 20 episodes already. I never thought really we'd get this far this quick, but we have and it's been a lot of fun. Most importantly, I'd like to thank my wife for a great Christmas and putting up with me doing a podcast. You've heard me talk about that before, but I love you, honey. and Merry Christmas. Very nice, George. I'd like to thank all our listeners and I'd also like to thank you, George, for the onus of getting this whole thing going with the podcast and giving me the opportunity to do it. I was kind of really busy at the time. I'm always busy, but by you running the show behind the scenes and getting things going, it makes it easy for me to be a contributor to it and putting the pressure on to, you know, nice pressure, you know, gentle pressure. But to do it, when you first tried to shop me out there to other podcasts and so forth, and there were no takers, and you said, well, we're going to do it ourselves. Like, all right, George, I'm game. Let's go. So here we are at number 20, and it's been great. So thank you to you, and I just want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas out there and Happy Hanukkah. and I also want to say thank you to my wife for putting up with me and my crazy pinball hobby that's turned into a business and she's been helping me all the way along she goes out with me on service calls and is a really helping hand there helping me with all the things I do with pinball and repairing and all the paint work she does and touch up work she's been an artist forever so she has a really good eye for that and well let me tell you something and happy new year too coming up, 2020. That's a perfect segue. What would you like to see us do on our podcast in 2020? You know what? I'd like to maybe throw a couple tech tips in there. You know, some different things, some different weird things I've found and different fixes for them. You know, I'll throw a couple of those in there. different things I've learned along the way and I don't know, keep talking about different games we've happened upon, like I can't wait to go after this blackout and go through it and get that done but I have so many games to do for myself, I have no time to do it I've got about 10 or 15 new all-stock playfields that I have for my own games to swap over that I have no time, but I really want to do. It's so many. It's like the little woman in the shoe. It's so many. What is it? So many kids you know what to do? I don't know. I have so many games. I don't know which one to start. You know? One at a time. One at a time. One at a time. Well, which one? You know? Give me a. How many percent? You're going to be 90. I'm going to be 90 or 100 by the time I get through them all. That's okay. You got a lifetime ahead of you. There you go. The one thing I'd like to see us do is a few more collectors go out to their homes or places of business. People seem to like that. We need to get back on track with single game reviews. People really respond to those. and by turning the new year we're now any game from 95 and back so we increase a year not that we've done a lot of things from the 90s but we should uh we shouldn't just be focused on one area but that's that's okay we'll we'll get there we're we're only 20 we're only 20 episodes in we've uh we've got a long way to go so that's what i'd like there's so many and there's so many games within that time frame is like we just scratched the surface on games. Well, we'll continue to bring you unique content. Let's leave it at that. I think doing shows and we've got Pintasta coming up six months away. Think about that. That will be here before you know it. And me going to California, there's a show in there somewhere. if nothing else travel tips we talked about John Day and we certainly we've been long overdue to go pay him a visit and hear and hear about his collection so I think we have some great things we can look forward to in 2020 I'll end 2019 with the following Merry Christmas Happy Hanukkah or whatever or else you happy trails on your way to your mother's house down on Cape Cod. Enjoy. It's a beautiful day here sitting in the sunshine. And that calls for a sip of sunshine in a couple of minutes. All right. I will virtually toast you on that one. Well, you'll be at your destination shortly. So Merry Christmas, Dave. Merry Christmas, Maureen. and to all those a good night, happy new year and we'll see you sometime in the new year Merry Christmas all, Merry Christmas George and Janice Talk soon Dave, be good Take care Bye I didn't want to forget our super fan Bruce and wishing him a happy new year as well as to my sister-in-law Mary and my nephew Crockett who are both avid listeners of the show. Happy New Year. © BF-WATCH TV 2021