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The Pinball Show Ep 22: Pinball Market Trends Deals Of The WTF!

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 14m·analyzed·Jul 20, 2020
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TL;DR

Stern Showdown winner, code updates, arcade closures, and market impact discussion.

Summary

The Pinball Show episode 22 covers market trends and industry news, including Stern's 2020 Showdown champion announcement (Iron Maiden defeating Lord of the Rings), code updates for multiple titles, hiring announcements from Spooky Pinball, and discussion of arcade closures during COVID-19. Hosts debate game rankings, discuss streaming copyright issues with Rick and Morty, and analyze potential market saturation from location closures.

Key Claims

  • Iron Maiden won Stern's 2020 Showdown over Lord of the Rings with 59% of the vote after 100,000+ total votes

    high confidence · Craig Bobby Stern News Correspondent report confirms Iron Maiden as grand champion over Lord of the Rings

  • Spooky Pinball is hiring and expanding their technical department

    high confidence · Dr. John Spooky Pinball update confirms hiring opportunity; contact service@spookypinball.com

  • Rick and Morty streamers face YouTube copyright strikes and permanent bans for streaming pinball machine content

    high confidence · Dr. John reports this is a YouTube copyright problem, not Spooky-initiated, causing concern among streamers

  • Modern Pinball arcade in New York City closed, closure related to lease issues rather than COVID-19

    medium confidence · Hosts discuss Modern Pinball closure; Zach notes initial assumption was COVID-related but actual cause was lease-related

  • Stranger Things code V.97 added two new wizard modes: Total Isolation 2 Multiball and Send It Back Multiball

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reports new code features flippers dying during Send It Back multiball after super jackpot

  • Jurassic Park code V1.02 added competition challenge option and new high score table

    high confidence · Craig Bobby confirms Jurassic Park update includes competition mode with randomness removed

  • One arcade operator reopened and saw only 5% of normal business in first week due to customer fear of COVID

    medium confidence · Zach cites Pinside thread discussion about arcade reopening experience; limited by customer safety concerns not just capacity restrictions

Notable Quotes

  • “I was utterly wrong. I was wrong, and I think Dwight Sullivan was probably taking notes.”

    Zach Minney @ Early in episode — Meta-commentary on Zach's previous criticism of Heart band; reveals community figure awareness and interpersonal dynamics

  • “Iron Maiden wins the Stern Showdown over Lord of the Rings with a 59% of the vote.”

    Craig Bobby (News Correspondent) @ Mid-episode — Major tournament result announcement; unexpected outcome given Lord of the Rings' legendary status

  • “Lord of the Rings is almost more of a legend than it is a player. I don't know how to... I see what you're saying.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Post-Showdown discussion — Captures how Lord of the Rings' reputation vs. actual gameplay merit tension influenced bracket perception

  • “There are some ball hang-ups that it [Iron Maiden] was prone to as well, especially near that bullseye target.”

    Zach Minney @ Game discussion — Identifies specific mechanical design weakness in Iron Maiden despite its tournament victory

  • “Spooky is they are hiring. If you want to get into the pinball industry like everyone else in the pinball media seems to be doing, you've got to ring Spooky Pinball.”

    Dr. John (Spooky Update) @ News segment — Humor about pinball media personnel trends while announcing legitimate business expansion opportunity

Entities

Stern PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyIron MaidengameLord of the RingsgameJurassic ParkgameStranger ThingsgameTeenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky Pinball expanding operations through technical department hiring

    high · Dr. John: 'they are hiring. If you want to get into the pinball industry... you've got to ring Spooky Pinball they're expanding their technical department'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Debate about Iron Maiden's tournament win reveals tension between game's popularity/technical quality vs. subjective theme resonance and gameplay vs. legend status

    medium · Hosts discuss Iron Maiden as popular but not their top 5; Lord of the Rings as legendary but gameplay dated; Jurassic Park preferred by both

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Competition mode discussion reveals how randomness in mystery awards affects tournament fairness; Gottlieb and System 11 games particularly problematic

    medium · Detailed discussion of mystery awards, randomness removal in competition modes, and frustration with unbalanced Gottlieb mysteries

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Iron Maiden identified as having mechanical design weakness (ball hang-ups near bullseye target) despite tournament victory

    medium · Zach: 'there are some ball hang-ups that it was prone to as well, especially near that bullseye target'

  • ?

    event_signal: Stern's 2020 Showdown concluded with Iron Maiden defeating Lord of the Rings as greatest Stern title of all time based on 100,000+ votes

    high · Craig Bobby report: 'Iron Maiden wins the Stern Showdown over Lord of the Rings with a 59% of the vote'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.223

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:20
It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Pinball Show, episode 22, with your host, myself, Zach Minney, and Dennis Creasel. Dennis is back. How's it going, Dennis? It's going great. It's like I was never gone. You still didn't miss me, did you? No, not really. It was nice to have a break, though. Was it nice hearing Tony and I going solo? Where you're like, you all will fail without me. No, I would never think such a thing. That was the first time Tony had to do Equipped Gamers by himself, though. He did really well. He's gotten a lot of really positive feedback, and a lot of people wanted to talk to him because he had a big focus in the pinball segment about literature and books that could be made into pinball machines. I think some people have been writing in trying to stump him, and it's like, if you're going in with Specfic and you think you're going to name a book series that Tony isn't familiar with, you have got to be kidding me. That guy devours books like great white sharks devour swimmers off Amity Island. Oh, wow. Book shark.
1:35
Yes, book shark. Yeah, I really enjoyed his episode. People seem to enjoy episode 21 of the Pinball Show, except for the handful of heart lovers out there. Some might say that you were heartless. Heartless.
1:52
A little bit heartless there. I wanted to say to the entire audience that listens and follows the pinball show that I was wrong. Wrong. Completely wrong. Wrong. I said I don't think that Heart is worth a shit besides this one song called Alone. Wrong. And Jeff Teolis messaged, I think he messaged you, but he messaged myself. Yeah, I got a message. Basically, if I was dramatizing this in a kind way, Jeff Teolis was like, what the hell is wrong with you, Zach? it's one of his favorite bands and i went back and and did some research and it doesn't take much research i don't know what i was thinking heart is a badass band yeah i i love heart i have a heart album somewhere my personal favorite song is actually crazy on you but straight on is really good oh i even like dreamboat annie okay all right i've been listening to a lot of heart so I know all of these now. I listen to the Spotify channel. All I Want to Do is Make Sweet Love to You. All these songs are really good. Barracuda? Oh, yeah. Oh, Barracuda. Oh, great. I love that guitar intro. and uh of course uh it was no shot i was corresponding with with jeff and noted and then i didn't even zoom in because he had posted a picture of him with heart and i didn't zoom in and look at his shirt because i said and you know a lot of people I know Jeff would know this, but Heart actually also is a really kick-ass Led Zeppelin cover band. Like, they do Stairway to Heaven. Yeah, yeah. And they do all sorts of Led Zeppelin songs. So, really well, too. So, they're an incredible band. And I was incredibly wrong. So, here's me saying to you, listener, I was utterly wrong. I was wrong, and I think Dwight Sullivan was probably taking notes. Just saying.
Rick and Morty
game
Modern Pinballvenue
Chicago Gaming Companycompany
American Pinballcompany
Keith Elwinperson
Mark Silkperson
Zach Minneyperson
Dennis Creaselperson
Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization
Silver Ball Subsvenue
Jason Knappperson
?

licensing_signal: Rick and Morty pinball game causing YouTube copyright strikes for streamers, creating content creation barrier

high · Dr. John: 'if you've been streaming Rick and Morty there are problems with copyright apparently according to YouTube and you can get strikes and banned permanently'

  • $

    market_signal: Arcade venue closures due to pandemic, with limited secondary market impact predicted despite location-based liquidations

    medium · Hosts discuss Modern Pinball closure and broader arcade shutdown trends; Zach notes scattered geography limits market saturation effect

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Voice actor Mark Silk appeared on Loser Kid Pinball Podcast discussing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball experience with six character voices

    high · Dennis discusses Mark Silk interview where he revealed Splinter as favorite character to voice, describing it as 'mystical' role

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern implementing flipper death/coil moments as emerging design pattern in newer code updates

    medium · Multiple games feature flipper death mechanics: Stranger Things Send It Back Multiball, TMNT Cowabunga mode; hosts praise this as good design choice when used sparingly

    • 3:57
    He's probably a Hart fan, too. Well, who isn't? Magic Man is probably his favorite song. See, I was lost. I was lost without you. I was alone. and that's what happens. I say stupid things. Well, unfortunately, I wasn't feeling all that well to sit and record that day. I did give you a day's notice. Oh, yeah, plenty of time. But we're glad that you're back in the saddle again. I am. Oh, I did want to update people that I worried about people getting flat tires almost like a premonition, right? Oh, premonition. Somebody's going to get a flat tire. And two of our listeners actually messaged me with pictures of them receiving flat tires this last week. So I don't know if that was a premonition I had, or I don't know if I put that little curse on them, the flat tire pinball show curse, but my apologies there for people with flat tires. But you know what's going to happen this week. Five people, not four, not six, five people are going to stub their toe. God, I hate that. almost done just one more oh when's the last time you stubbed your toe dennis i don't remember because it probably happens a lot god oh the feeling just walk it off oh my god i just want to die i want to die i want to die so this week is uh stubbed toe that's what's going to happen this week i have a feeling i just have a feeling so what else you've been up to since uh last recording anything fun no no it's mostly been recovery and uh and work of course work's been busy so focused on that i didn't stream or anything i haven't played much in the way of video games really no watching tv shows do you watch perry mason yet i'm telling you i have not watched perry mason yet i watched the second season of hana what what hana hana hana i don't know which way to say it i thought that was a film it was but they there's now an amazon series for it was so bad that they made it into an amazon prime series i'm gonna have to get you off this amazon kick that you're on no you shut up trade it for hbo no what no one needs hbo now that game of thrones is gone give me a break oh my gosh are you serious yes no sopranos you ever seen sopranos nope what it's on amazon if i want to watch it but uh no please do do yourself a favor No, I don't need to watch yet another mob show. Oh, my God. I'm going through another mob show, Boardwalk Empire. Oh, Steve Buscemi?
    6:49
    That's a good one. He was a firefighter. I didn't know that. Yeah. New York City. Little Buscemi was a firefighter? Mm-hmm. Huh. Yeah, he participates in a lot of 9-11 memorial stuff and things, yeah. Did not know that. See, you learn something new every day you talk to a Dennis Greasel. I'm trying to think what I've been up to. I've been doing a lot of mods. Had some time, did some mods this weekend. Did you make any videos about them? You know what? No, I didn't. I just wanted to enjoy the mod process because filming installs and stuff like that can be kind of a pain in the ass. The one we did for Straight Down the Mill, we did do a pinwoofer. That wasn't really a mod. That was more like a promotional thing for pinwoofer that we got shit on, of course. But now a really cool mod with new amp and stuff dedicated for pinball. So go check out Penwoofer. Oh, I put a new coin door on my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE, Dennis. Why? Wasn't the current coin door new enough? It wasn't green.
    7:51
    I like green. Okay. I wanted to match it. It wanted to be powder coat. I had the shooter assembly and the coin door I wanted to have fully matched with the rest of the trim. I think I'm going to do that with my LEs because I got Rick and Morty in here with the color coin door. upgraded this one. I think Stranger Things. You reckon we're already working now? Yeah, it is fantastic. Keep pressing start on it. And I can't wait to review and talk about that game more, but that's for another episode. But yeah, so I've been modding some stuff out. I did the tower mod on Jurassic Park, some plastic protectors, put some pin stadiums in. Ooh, I added some speaker light kits. Love those damn things. I've been getting all fancified. So that's what we've been up to. I wonder what our correspondents have been up to. Probably nothing. No, they're going to give us the news. Think we'll have a Craig Bobby spotting? Yeah, probably. It feels like he's been slacking off lately, so he'll want to show they're still alive. It's time for TPN Industry News.
    8:56
    Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. As more and more Hot Wheels are being unboxed, everyone is enjoying the game. Looks like they're having a great time. If you want to catch up on any streams, there's a couple different streams that happened over the last few days live catch pinball did a stream with Josh Kugler and now the video is available on YouTube just look for live catch pinball and also check out the TurboGrafx-7 Twitch stream with Ryan Kuyper Dave Brennan and Michael Grant they had a stream on Friday night you can watch the stream replay of that on the TurboGrafx-7 Twitch page and also there were a few cool and interesting stories on the American Pinball Facebook page check those out as well Hope everyone's having a great week. For American Pinball, this is Brian Kosner.
    9:42
    Matt Morrison here with your Chicago Gaming Company update for the week. It's been radio silent for weeks now at Chicago Gaming Company, slowly cranking out Medieval Madness remakes and getting those standalone toppers and RGB upgrade kits ready. However, our TPN CGC remake poll has officially ended. There were three clear frontrunners, but only one winner. With a total of 234 votes in the entire poll, Indiana Jones the Pinball Adventure comes out on top and rightfully so with average examples of this game reaching into the sevens and in second place the next room would remake from Chicago Gaming Company of Cactus Canyon and only one boat away in third place is Tales of the Arabian Nights and lastly with all the location pinball hurting right now I want to give a big shout out to Silver Ball Subs in Asheville North Carolina who was opening his business right as the lockdown went into effect he is open now the subs are awesome he has his machines distanced responsibly, sanitizers everywhere. If you're traveling in or around western North Carolina, near Asheville, stop in and support Silver Ball Subs. That'll do it this week. I'm Matt Morrison.
    10:46
    Hello, and it's time for this week's SHIT Update with Dr. John on the Pinball Show. Not too much happening. Rick and Morty continue to roll out. Kelts is a matter of weeks away, I understand. But the news out of Spooky is they are hiring. If you want to get into the pinball industry like everyone else in the pinball media seems to be doing you've got to ring Spooky Pinball they're expanding their technical department and you can either email service at spookypinball.com or call them and their number is available on the interwebs the other thing happening with poor old Spooky is if you've been streaming Rick and Morty there are problems with copyright apparently according to YouTube and you can get strikes and banned permanently if you use content on the pinball machine. A rather unusual situation, but not one instigated by Spooky, and they're actually rather peeved about it all. I'm not sure of the solution, but I know all streamers and YouTubers are facing the same problem. Good luck with it all in the future. Well, that's it for this week. Catch you next time.
    11:56
    The Stern Factory keeps on chugging. Code updates galore, and the finish to the 2020 Stern Showdown. Hey everyone, Craig here again, your pinball show's Stern News Correspondent with another week of unboxings as happy TMNT Pro and LE owners post their prize purchases online as Stern continues to pump out these games while they can before a second COVID wave hits in the fall. Get those games while you can, folks, as this thing ain't over yet. Meanwhile, no one can accuse Stern for having their games rest in Ghostbuster code limbo as the Stern coders continue to make hay with new Jurassic Park code V1.02 and Stranger Things code V.97. Beyond the usual bug fixes and polish, the Jurassic Park code features a new competition challenge option and high score table, while the Stranger Things code includes two new wizard modes, Total Isolation 2 Multiball and Send It Back Multiball. And congratulations to Stern's 2018 Iron Maiden as it became the grand champion of Stern's 2020 showdown as it narrowly defeated Stern's 2003 Lord of the Rings as the greatest Stern title of all time. Iron Maiden has now officially sealed its spot as one of the all-time greatest pinball machines as decided by you, the players, with over 100,000 votes cast across Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. can it win again in 2021 we shall wait and see for the pinball show i'm craig bobby catch you on the flip side so we will get to some of that news it's always great hearing from those correspondents the little wascally wabbits what do you think did you hear about that the new cartoon looney tunes the uh yosemite sam and elmer fudd no longer can handle guns i had not too political for you to discuss well it's too not pinball related because looney tunes only brings back memories of the infamous system 11 bugs bunny give the guys their guns come on it's a cartoon and incidentally that uh that's a common misunderstanding but it's bugs bunny's birthday ball not bash oh well it wasn't much of a bowl some interesting things in that game though that's generous of you interesting I wonder if Tony will pick that in a Build-A-Bank. I'm sure he will. No, no. He's played it. He hates it. I'm sure he will. And speaking of cartoons, did you hear that Mark Silk was on the Loser Kid Pinball podcast this week? I did. Unfortunately, I am way behind on podcasts because I did next to no driving this last week. And that's when I mostly catch up. So I've not heard it yet. It is in my playlist ready to go, though. Well, no worries. That's what you got me for. I've got to say that it was truly a joy to listen to voice actor Mark Silk on the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. You guys would do yourselves a big service to go there and listen to that. Because Mark Silk is a man of many voices, as many of you know. He's done some impeccable work in Hollywood, cartoon. I didn't realize he did Bob the Builder. I thought it was a UK Bob the Builder. He did Bob the Builder for the U.S. for a long time. Does Scooby and Shaggy. He's very decorated. in the voice artistry field. But he was on there, and he was talking about how much fun it was working with Stern Pinball on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. As he has voiced, I think you said a couple weeks ago, Dennis, he has voiced six different characters. And they asked him, they said, what was your favorite character to voice on the new Stern Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? And he said, Splinter. That was surprising to me. Why? Why are you surprised? Because it's a very, there's not a lot going on with that voice. Yeah, he said that's what he described it as, mystical. He said Splinter has had many voices over the years of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Even in the original series, it would change often. So he had to put his own spin on it. And he said it feels more like him, but in a very mystical role model sort of way.
    16:12
    Splinter. And I didn't know this. he once this just made me chuckle it's not really relevant but he once landed a gig because of doing a sinatra chicken hmm sinatra chicken just makes me laugh had a whole uh new york new york using the sound of a sinatra chicken okay dennis we don't have any news this week so i'm stretching Okay, well, I don't know what that means. You'll have to tune in and find out. We also have a new champion.
    16:46
    There's a champion among us. Really? But not us ourselves. We are not the champions, my friends. Well, you know, numbers don't lie, so we're there. But there's a new champion at Stern Pinball. They did the Stern Showdown. Oh, yeah, that's been going for months. For months upon months. There were some shenanigans in there with Metallica and all that. But a really cool promotion. I liked it. But there's a winner now. The champion has been crowned. And I didn't think this would happen. I thought Lord of the Rings was going to win this whole bracket. And it ended up in the finals. But it didn't receive the majority of votes. Iron Maiden. Keith Elwin. Zombie Eddie. And the crew over there at Stern Pinball. Iron Maiden wins the Stern Showdown over Lord of the Rings with a 59% of the vote. Wow. Surprised?
    17:43
    Kind of, yeah. I was too. Everything's subjective here on this bracket, but do you think, are you okay with Iron Maiden winning that entire bracket? I'm okay with anything winning. Really? Yeah, I mean, how am I supposed to not be okay? It was a vote, I mean. Sopranos, you'd be okay with that? I've never played it. I haven't played too much of it. I haven't watched it and I haven't played it. I put it in its place. Woe Nelly? I haven't played it. And that wasn't in the bracket anyway. You don't need to play that. So Iron Maiden wins. I mean, is it what I would have picked? No. But it is a very popular, well-respected game. So it's really, I feel hard to be critical of it. I mean as much as it Lord of the Rings and I a big fan of Lord of the Rings But Lord of the Rings is almost more of a legend than it is a player I don know how to I see what you saying It like it got a status because in that period of 2000 to 2010 there were really only two Stern pinball machines that get any sort of love Simpsons Pinball Party and Lord of the Rings But even Lord of the Rings fans often will know, OK, well, all the games, if you want to get anywhere, are marathon games. Several of the shots are a little clunky. And then you've got Iron Maiden, which has got all the new tech, a brand new game from a new designer.
    19:07
    It's not clunky. But on the flip side, the theme definitely doesn't resonate as well as Lord of the Rings does for most people.
    19:16
    And there are some ball hang-ups that it was prone to as well, especially near that bullseye target. I would have picked Lord of the Rings over Iron Maiden. I would have picked Jurassic Park to win the whole thing out of all the games that were listed. That's what I thought would have won. But I believe it's what died to Metallica when the Metallica fans got involved. It does have that classic. It was one of the best. But maybe, I think age is kind of, skews this voting too. It can, it can. And I should note, Jurassic Park is just what going in I thought was going to win. If I were to have picked which Stern I wanted to win, it would have been Walking Dead. I would have agreed with you. Oh, it's always that or Lord of the Rings with me. Well, I'd have to – I mean – Walking Dead didn't have a chance, did it? It got a ways, but no. I mean I never expected it to. I didn't expect it to. Lord of the Rings in my mind was the only DMD game that really had a chance to beat the modern – the modern Sterns are actually reviewing pretty well for people. So, you know, like the formula is mastered, and maybe it all tastes like various degrees of vanilla to a lot of people, but vanilla is popular. And so – I like vanilla. You know, there's just modern games, LCD-era games, a lot deeper code.
    20:34
    The layouts are less risky in ways that might flop like WWE did. So it's just certain things are just resonating. But I'm with you. So I would have thought, especially time-wise, I would have thought Jurassic Park would have got the nod over an Iron Maiden. I personally feel Jurassic Park's layout is better, its code is better, its flow is better, and its rules make more sense to me. So I actually, there's not a single thing about Iron Maiden other than the art that I would pick over Jurassic Park. I think I agree with you. But it's a fun game. I do like Iron Maiden. an Iron Maiden. Would Iron Maiden make your top 10 Stern list? Not Stern Electronics. Right, right. Modern Stern Pinball. Yeah, I think it would. But not my top five.
    21:24
    It wouldn't make my top five. I think it would be close. No. Selfishly, no. I like some other games that are not as good as Iron Maiden. I know that objectively, but I like My top five would probably be Lord of the Rings. That's not in order. but Lord of the Rings, The Walking Dead, Star Trek, Jurassic Park, and Deadpool.
    21:47
    That's a good top five. I would take out Star Trek and replace it with Star Wars Premium Elite. And I would put Ghostbusters Pro in there. I probably would have Ghostbusters in the 10, I think, maybe at 10th. But, yeah, Iron Man would probably be in there, Ghostbusters. I'd probably also, oh, gosh, that's interesting. Alvira. I'd have Beatles in there. Yeah, Alvira would be in for sure. I think I would also put ACDC in for me in that list of the 10. I don't know if I came up with 10 yet or not. You want to hear something stupid that you're going to get mad about?
    22:29
    At this point in time, I'm still playing Stranger Things. I need more time on it, but currently no. It would not make my time. Speaking of stranger things, there's a new code update. Version V.097. Or no, not .097.
    22:50
    V.097 sounds like one of the flippers works. That's right. .97. Typo. We've got two new wizard modes. They added the total isolation to multiball, which is cool. and they changed the rules to send it back multi-ball. I made a note here because I think it was really cool when games do this, and it feels like Stern's starting to catch on to these little moments. But during the send it back multi-ball, once your super jackpot is hit, the flippers will die. They're dead. The game.
    23:25
    And then they eject you one ball into the shooter lane to continue that same ball. but do you like when flippers die or coils go crazy or you get that kind of stuff? Yeah, I think if it's used sparingly, yeah. Like Total Shutdown on Daddy East Jurassic Park. It was a really cool thing to go and do that and then see it all die and get all your points, your bonus, and then the ball comes back in. It seems like an easy enough part of code, too. Yeah, I don't think it's that hard. To create coil moments. Yeah, coil moments. The more coil moments, the better. In Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, there's some coil moments, too. I haven't played it yet. They do have it at the 403 Club now, but I've not been up there. I've been warming up to Ninja Turtles. Like, full transparency when it came out, I told everybody during first impressions, whether it's on this show or straight down the middle, that the code, I'm still trying to figure out this code. It's very different than your typical code set, and it's full. But I was trying to warm up to it. It's finally starting to warm back up to me a little bit, TMNT. but there's a coil moment in that when you get one two three foot clan if you complete that then you like cowabunga mode and the cowabunga mode i still don't know what it is but it's this multi-ball frenzy where you're trying to do everything in the game all at once but once you get down to i believe it's one ball then flippers die and then it like your your bonus countdown it shows you all the tasks that you reach during that cowabunga mode and then once that's over you get your big bonus and it stays with the same ball it just kicks the ball out for you right okay interesting yeah that's where some big points are at so i like the quill moments you hear that dwight he didn't listen to this show lonnie hear it we might have dwight on here soon that doesn't mean he listens yeah that's true that just means you guilt you guilted him on to the show for something hear that nagel we're speaking of nagel jurassic park code update 1.02 you thought this game was done but it's not it's mostly done yeah general cleanup but they did add a new competition challenge i think it's the new blur but it's a competition challenge where apparently randomness is removed now tell tell the listener because i don't know enough about competition or tournament modes randomness what do we yeah likely dealing usually applicable to mystery award style uh items so when you turn on a competition mode it resolves the randomness uh and i've seen it It happened in a couple of ways, typically. One is it might only just keep giving the same award over and over. That's ultimately what I think most people have seen if they've ever played Attack from Mars in competition mode. The mystery hole just keeps giving the 50 million points. Though in earlier code, it actually did the other approach, which is like a ladder, where it might be, all right, the first time you hit the mystery hole, you get your 50 million. The second time, you get 100 million. And the third time, you get an extra ball. And that way, if you do the same – Equalizes it for everybody. Because the issue is if you play at the same skill level, let's say you and I were playing identically on Jurassic Park. And I did everything and got 10 million points from some random thing. And you did everything exactly the same and only got 5 million. Why do I deserve to win? I can see that. So that sort of stuff. And that's the thing like with System 11s and a lot of the Gottlieb System 3s. That's where a lot of the frustration. This is why competition people hate those games is because there was no way to turn off, especially like the Gottliebs, to turn off those mysteries. And they're so unbalanced. Gottlieb mysteries are like, hell with it. You automatically win. The argument for the mystery awards was it makes it more fun because it kind of levels the playing field. And people who are more casual still have ways to stay in the game. I would compare it to rubber banding in Mario Kart where you have the items like the blue shell and stuff that let people who are way behind, they get the better and better items to try and let them catch up. That's a way to implement rubber banding so that you're not – you're bouncing back. You make them real small. Yeah, so you're bouncing back up. So it stays tight because I have a friend who he plays so much Mario Kart. even with items if you turn it way up to like 15 laps or whatever he'll lap he'll lap the other humans twice because he's just that good versus a casual like me who only what system does he play on um his preferred system i'd have to ask the example instance i'm thinking of i believe was gamecube this was a long time ago but yeah like we had all the maps memorized all that remember tony and i were playing with him one time we were doing like a three i think it was three player local uh competitive and his bad the guy the good player his batteries died and we wouldn't pause he had to run yep because he had to run and find batteries for his controller and tony and i were like no we're gonna we're gonna win we still lost but still we got like he caught up yes no he was so far ahead already it was like a switchblade of batteries yeah it was just no no it took it took a While, because he had to run down a hall to wherever he kept the batteries and get batteries. Fucking Rainbow Road. Oh, Rainbow Road. Yeah. Something that's not good, though, in pinball is when pinball locations close down. We're seeing more and more of it because of the current climate. But modern pinball, a staple in New York City, has closed its doors. Yes. I saw that on social media, and I had initially assumed it was COVID-19 related, though I have read that one happened to be more related to something involving the lease. And so it was coming for a while, I guess. A lot of people like that place. I know that our friend Jason Knapp, he would frequent that place, too. Yeah, it was iconic. A lot of places closing down, which is scary and sad all at once. Do you think this is kind of the beginning of the phasing down of pinball again? I think we'll see more closures, yes, because of the state of the pandemic.
    29:27
    Whether they'll bounce back once vaccine and everything, possibly. I don't think it – there's nothing that says this has to inherently mean pinball is going to become less popular overall with society. But it's just how – Well, we know that if there are less of them out there, then how does it not become less popular? Well, it's a question of duration, though, because people who still remember playing from five months ago aren't going to forget all of a sudden what pinball is. So, yeah, it's really hard to say. But I think I saw on Pinside on a thread about arcade closures or reopenings and dealing with the virus that someone who's now reopened had noted he was really disappointed because the very first week he got to reopen, his business level was 5% of what it was. so even when he could reopen even if he had to put in limits it didn't matter because the limits didn't matter because people refused to go because they don't feel it's safe yeah we know here in the states it sounds like we're we've got another phase of COVID brewing technically we're not in second peak this is just the same first peak oh geez when's the next peak Bill Nye peak would have been in the fall winter with the schools That was projected to happen no matter what. But what happened is we're seeing the numbers increase during the summer when they should have dropped. But the poor behavior of the public has made that impossible at this stage. Damn it, America. So do you think that with all of these locations closing down, they're going to be getting rid of, I'm thinking like arcades and pinball. When these locations shut down, they're going to sell these games more than likely. Do you think that saturates the market and do we see a drop in pricing? market-wise no i don't think i don't think the volume will hit enough not enough at all at once when they close uh depend i mean they're not like closing the same week they're all geographically they're scattered everywhere so the impact on the market isn't all saturated and like if it's all in chicago for example it may be then and so for those reasons i don't think so though i do agree that most of these locations that are shutting down i'll probably uh liquidate at least part of the product line. So I don't think, I don't expect use prices to go up under those conditions, but I don't, I don't think it's going to be enough volume to, to dramatically make something change. I would agree, but I can guarantee you Dennis and listener that a lot of these locations that are closing down, we don't know about, we don't hear about because they are the little bitty locations that have maybe have one to five pinball machines. You're not going to hear about that on pin side. They're the true local, you know mixed arcade mixed barcade and i don't think you're going to hear about a lot of them modern pinball of course fair enough but let's say this little local like five game arcade closes down well those aren't all going to be the five same games and like if they're doing it in the in i don't know kentucky or whatever like how many other uh world cup soccers are on the market it right now it's all it all is dependent on all these other things so yeah if it does anything it would help push prices down but i just don't think it's going to be enough volume and enough concentrated area to really move that now prices may fall because of the pandemic but i don't think the arcade closure flooding the market is a big enough factor i think that's more people not having as much money people need to free up cash are going to want to liquidate games be they businesses or individuals, and of course, the desire to make space for those that still have the means that are trying to gain access to the trickling out of the new games. Generally, we have not seen any downward price fluctuation on the secondary market. I haven't seen that since I've started in the pinball hobby, but I guess there's only one way to really find out the truth of the current pinball market.
    33:32
    Come one, come all, step right up, folks. I'm going to guess your weight. I'm going to guess your true hair color. I'm going to guess the value of your pinball machine that's sitting in your cellar. Only on the pinball shows. P-M-T, baby. Pinball Market Trends. That's what we should do. Give me a P. Give me a M. Give me a T. Pinball Market Trends. Woo hoo. No? Get the rhythm up a little bit. Turning up this week is Stern Pinball's Kiss. What? Kiss? Yeah. The numbers don't lie. We only report the facts here at the Pinball Show, Pinball Market Trends. And Stern's Kiss, if you've noticed, look historically over the last 6 to 12 months, that Stern's Kiss is not only retaining its value, but it is going up a little bit. I attribute this a lot to people not selling them. You're not seeing, there's not a lot of KISS pinball machines that have been sold in the last year. Period. They don't pop up. People seem to like them. That code update a year or two ago really helped it out. Now that people are super fans of pinball toppers, not that I was a part of any of that. I was. But, stirring KISS topper may be one of the best. You're seeing this continue to trend up for some reason. Try to find you a premium out there. You're still going to pay in the sixes. Find you an LE. Those damn things are really, really tough to find. Stern Pros, they're even holding like upper fours for secondary Stern Pro, believe it or not. Dennis, can you believe Stern Kiss is still a hotter commodity than it was when it released?
    35:23
    Yeah, I guess so. I haven't played the new code update. but I did hear it was pretty good. I always liked the layout of it. Yeah, it's solid. There's nothing that'll throw you with the code. It's not crazy code, just solid code. Art's solid. It's a pretty machine. Shoots really well. Still got those John Borg left pops that put you into danger, but I still want one. I'm kind of over the DMD. Is that sad? Am I such a snoot? Well, given your personality, it's in no way surprising. I'm just kind of snooty. Now I'm like, I don't want a DMD. I thought about it, but I'm like, it will not look good next to my LCD screens. Do you think any viewers and listeners are out there that are like that? Yeah, I do, actually. Do you? Yeah. You think they're fans of me? Yes, I do. Aw, seven of them. Unfortunately, trending down is the Datter East.
    36:20
    They say Datter. australia yeah i sometimes still say vanilla from my i blame my time in new york but yeah you sound like the pinball players podcast oh an idea joke yeah yeah i don't usually say idea i just thought he ended it off because his last name sounds like that lemire nope no it's probably lemire accent. I thought that was funnier than it probably was. A data Reese is trending down this week and that's tales from the crypt. I didn't, I didn't see this trending down, but now the numbers are saying that it, uh, it's starting to trickle down a little bit. A lot on the marketplace lately. It's a year ago. You do test the pulse of this thing and it was beating rapidly but now temp your expectations If you looking for tails from the crypt you can find one Upper twos lower threes 2,800, 3,200. That should be your aim. You're going to pay a little bit more if it does have that topper. If the door handle shooter is intact, it doesn't have a lot of wear. That game's really bad about insert ghosting and stuff, cracking. So take a look at it. But $2,800 to $3,200 for one of the best out of East out there. And I'm going back to trending because trending up this week. Oh, I love talking toppers, baby. Believe it or not, Dennis Creasel, the topper that is trending up this week is Star Wars. The Star Wars topper. The LE thing, the R2-D2? Yeah.
    37:55
    Any ideas or guesses as to why Star Wars topper is trending up? Nope. Well, it might be because I have a whole pallet full in the back of my truck. But no.
    38:09
    True story. Stern is making Star Wars toppers again. And you guys listen to this program because you know you're going to get the truth and the facts. And you're going to get it here on Pinball Market Trends. Got a couple little birds out there. and when they're not shitting on my windshield they're telling me that once this next run of Star Wars toppers is gone out of production there I think they're done. That's it. No more Star Wars toppers. I thought they were making $750. I think it was $500. Oh, I don't, sorry. No, they were $750 to buy. Oh, okay. That's where you're getting your $750. So remember my old research on the pricing. So either they built them all Or they're Terminating the production of them But with that goes A trending up Yeah, Star Wars toppers As a dealer I saw the inventory list And they updated us And I said I'll take them Buy, buy, buy I bought all the Star Wars toppers Stern still has some So if you don't want to buy through Flippin' Out I'm going to buy direct from them. That's fine, too. But Star Wars toppers will be on the rise. Same thing as Beatles toppers, y'all. You guys, I reminded you and I told you weeks back that the Beatles topper was about to be done for. For a long, long time, if not ever. Those of you who didn't listen and want a Beatles topper now, good luck trying to find one. People are price gouging those things. $600 for a Beatles topper. Maybe more. What do you think Star Wars is going to be? I don't know, Zach. You bought them all. what it's going to be. Well, we're not tacky and overpriced stuff just because there's scarcity. Oh. Price them for what they are priced at. But then I guess whatever they're priced at is what they'll go for. Yeah. That's what they'll go for now. Yeah. For now. I don't know how it's turning up because that's still the price. Oh, I just, I want to do a whole episode about toppers. I do not. We did one. It was f***ing stupid. Oh, man. No, we got good feedback on that one. I still didn't like the amount of work I put on it, so I don't want to do it again. It was really good. And I shouldn't be saying this. Damn it. I get so excited, Dennis, when it comes to toppers. There is an underground topper group. No, there isn't. No, believe me. There is, and it's good that you don't know about it. It is good, so don't tell me about it. I don't want to hear it. But there is a topper or two that are being built right now, not by a manufacturer. and I'm not sure you'll ever see them advertised because they're such a limited custom run and I am in on one of them and Dennis, it is the topper to end all toppers. This topper is so good that it would say, f*** you Twippy, best topper category. I'm going for the best game. I know people reach out to me when they're building toppers now. I'm the topper king, Dennis. Self-reclaimed, baby. And there's some cool toppers coming out. We'll do a little, and then I'll get into your deal of the week. I'm going to do a little shock and awe right here.
    41:29
    This is probably going to be a positive shock and awe. I'm going to tell Dennis something that is very, very secretive. Super secretive. Only a handful of people know about it in the world. And we'll see what his response is. Here we go, listener. All right, Dennis. i'm going to tell you the price of this and then you can react to the audience i'm paying over oh my god it's cool but stupid right well i mean it's yeah i mean it sounds really not i just like i'm trying to think and it's like well it's under what i did for my neon okay that's fair so so i mean i've made decisions i feel like i'm gonna turn around and you're gonna charlie brown me here but but that being said uh my neon sign is one of a kind yeah that's true and not and not game dependent see that's the thing it's like what do you do with a topper uh if you don't have the game anymore. Do you keep it? I put it on my headboard. I put it on my tombstone. Given what you've described, yeah, I would assume you would. Let's talk about how you can waste your money in this week's Deals of the Week. Buy, buy, buy! I say waste your money because there's no deals. What the hell? What's going on, Pensiders? What's going on, Facebookers? Why don't we have good deals of the week this week? I had to give out my own last week, Dennis. That game is pending sale. This week, I'm doing deals of the... What the fuck? That's what I'm doing. Because there are so many ads right now on Pinside of pinball machines that make no sense. I'm going to run through them real quick. We've got a Comet pinball machine out of New York, New York. I don't know if the guy was having a stroke. I hope not. I'm not trying to be mean here. But these are random pictures that looks like he was falling down in the process of snapping the shot. There's a random... This is for a Comet, y'all. there's a random front of a batman forever there is personal text messages with addresses and the kicker is the last photo with a thumb in the way is of raw meat loaves of meat god no it smells like like a used diaper filled with indian food What the fuck is... Sold as is. So is it refrigerated? Because if it's as is, it's out of the freezer. I don't want that.
    44:01
    Meat. What the fuck? Another deal of the... What is going on here is an Adams Family Gold Special Collectors Edition out of Huntington Beach, California. No pictures. Just says I'm only selling because I have my eye on a car. number 852 huntington beach several mods very clean game but the only picture we get is a picture of the special collector's edition certificate in which case not everybody even signed it they're missing john crutch and john yousey's signature and the biggest thing twenty thousand dollars Wow. For an Addams Family gold? Oh, come on, people. They sell for nine grand, ten grand tops. If you have it restored, maybe 11, 20,000. You say you're firm? I'll give you something firm on your doorstep for this stupid ass sale. Oh, excuse me. You know, desire smells like that to some people. Next is a hurricane by Williams, Las Vegas, Nevada. You'd have to gamble away your paycheck to earn this thing. It's restored. Okay. Buy it today. Ship's tomorrow. What if you buy it on Saturday? Does it ship on Sunday? I don't want to shit on this guy, but you look at this. It's got old ramps. How's it restored if it's got old, old crusty ass ramps? It's got some playfield wear. I think I even see chip plastics. $39.95? Or best offer? Here's an offer. Learn how to sell a fucking pinball machine. $39.95 for a hurricane? I hope it's seven hurricanes. Jesus! What is that? It smells like a turd covered in burnt hair! Star Trek The Next Generation. A game that I really enjoy. Out of Chandler, Arizona. On Pennside. Comes with manuals and it even comes with a ball cap. Isn't that nice? What's not nice is the god damn price! Six thousand dollars for a run of the mill Star Trek Next Generation? What are these people smoking? You can always tell by the stupid pictures, too. Stupid pictures of the dead giveaway. He's got the manual, but then he showcases, or she showcases, a mark of specialty advertisement for an MPU board. Who gives a shit? $6,000. You're out of your ever-loving mind. I could keep going. Indiana Jones the Pinball Adventure. Out of Las Vegas. I wonder if this is the same dipshit that was selling the other one. This one. Oh, this is home use only, ladies and gentlemen. Playfields Immaculate. collector's quality. It's gold plated, y'all. They've owned the machine since 2001. Man, what's not to like? Well, let's look at the pictures. Well, for one, I don't know if this is a new playfield, but I see insert ghosting everywhere! This is not a great playfield. It's got some mods on it. Looks like it'll run in the middle. They don't even show the cabinet! It's been completely restored and rebuilt. Clear-coated playfield. Well, if you didn't clear-coat the play field right then i don't care about it but when you're asking fourteen thousand five hundred dollars what in the hell is going on it's completely broken down and restored by treasure cove hashtag that's now a red flag when you hear that fourteen thousand five hundred dollars jeez louise oh can't forget the simpsons the good old data east from the 90s uh this one's out of California? Right on the San Diego, Mexico line. Fully restored again. Dennis, I mean, fully restored by Elite Pinball Restorations. The cab was fully stripped, it was repaired, it was repainted, we decaled quality materials here. Playfield stripped, scans of wear areas were covered and touched up. Starting to worry me here. I don't care. All I know is when I look at the picture, Dennis, I see a picture of a fucking Simpsons pinball machine that has powder-coated legs that are green, that has a powder-coated lockdown bar that's red, a powder-coated left rail that's yellow, and a powder-coated right rail that's the same green as the legs. What is going on? That is a $2,000 turd, and you're selling it for $6,500? Get the hell out of here. Fuck. God. You can't make this up.
    48:31
    Buff to perfection? Oh, fucking buff the color off those powder-coated legs and armor. $6,500. They painted the whole back of the machine all white. Oh, and the kicker on this one. Look under the play field, Dennis. And they took out the pop bumper mechanisms and powdered those bitches yellow.
    48:56
    Jesus, people. All this should be set on fire. oh my god and the last deal of the come on bro is out of milford connecticut and this is a you should know better pinballs.com you should know better they're selling an avengers ellie hulk edition the less preferred, in my opinion, LE edition. I like the premium blue better. And that's fine. Great condition, home use only. I believe them. Here, pinballs.com, reputable from what I know. Beautiful LED job. So it's out of the box, home use only. Over 400 new and reconditioned pinball machines in stock. Authorized distributor for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Same day shipping. What if you ship on Sunday? Credit cards accepted. $8,400? $8,500? Used Avengers LE? Pinballs.com. Come on. Usually pinballs.com jacks up the price and overprices things that are still in the box that they've held on to. But this is just a slap in the face. What is going on over there in Connecticut? $8,500 for a used Hulk. Give me a break.
    50:17
    So for you, Comet, Adams family, Hurricane, Star Trek The Next Gen, Indiana Jones, that abomination of a Simpsons and the Avengers Hulk edition go to hell for your deals of the week. Smells like Big Bud's dick. God.
    50:35
    It was worth sitting through just to hear about the Simpsons. The Simpsons. God. I want to save the Simpsons. Oh, that game is a turd. Don't bother. It is a turd. But, Jesus.
    50:52
    New Flipperbats. original data. Thanks. Thank you. I appreciate that. Oh, damn it, man. I hate being, I don't hate being mean, but come on. Alright, let's close out this Pinball Market Trends with a little viewer trend. Oh my, hold up. Hold up. Nope. I just made the mistake of checking out the other ads from this Pinsider selling the Simpsons. Oh, Jesus. They're also selling a Comet for $6,000. and a Playboy, restored Playboy, $7,000. Something says you might be sitting on that one for a while. Oh, and that damn Treasure Cove, Indiana Jones. The whole bottom of the cabinet is painted white inside of the cabinet. It hurts my eyes just to see this kind of shit to pinball machines. I'm sorry, pinball machines. The take-home message here, ladies and gentlemen, is that quote-unquote restoration doesn't always mean quote restoration. Sometimes restoration means stay the hell away because that person doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.
    52:06
    Reputable restoration. Maybe that's what we have to start changing it to. Call Steve Bowden. Reputable restoration. Maybe he can change it in the dictionary. Jeez. There should be like a certified program for restoration. I just now thought of that. and that's actually a good idea. A review system. There you go, Jeff. Put that in this week in pinball. I'd like to see a database of restoration reviews.
    52:30
    This poor Simpsons would not be it. All right, we've got a listener. We've got a listener. Fuck that. Come on, get through this. We've got a listener trend segment here. And I don't know who this is that submitted it, but it is a character. and it's Grandpa, or Gramps. I'd like to think it's Grandpa Creasel, but let's take a listen to see what Grandpa has to say about this week's viewer trends.
    53:04
    Pinball! Trends. Sorry, I think I got a bit of that corn reviver stuck in my throat. Trending up this week, me!
    53:20
    At my age, just waking up in the morning is a good thing. Trending down, getting out of my dag-dab bed. I know what you're saying, but back off of that high-floating attitude, Mr. Zach Meany, you whippersnapper. I don't have an escolar to help me get upstairs every day. You'll find out what I'm talking about one day when you wake up every morning like a weevil, rolling around in a mattress indentation trying to get on your feet before you pee all over yourself. Trending up, shaker motors. We didn't have shaker motors when I was a kid. Hell, we didn't even have flippers back then. Nowadays, I can get granny to just saddle up on that lockdown bar. I step up to the machine and with a little flipper action, if you know what I mean, I can activate that shaker motor and get that booty moving like when we were teenagers. Bye, bye, bye. Trending down is leg stability. Mine and the pinball machines. Granny ain't as light as she used to be. And after a few minutes shaking on that machine, both mine and the pinball machine's legs are getting a little wobbly. Trending up, rule sets. Back in my day, pinball games had one set of rules. Hit the freaking ball. Nowadays, pinball machines have rule sets that are longer than a Kinead or Rant. They go on and on and on and on. Trending down, my attention span. How am I supposed to get through all these rules while I'm playing a game? Hit this ramp. Hit this target. Go around this loop. Do this. Do that. Do... What was I talking about? Trending up this week, pissed off podcasters. It seems to me they're crawling on the damn woodwork. I've had about all I can take of this self-righteous know-it-all hoity-doity, old world is out to get me crap. Oh, Stern hates me. Ooh, JJP's against me. Ah, every other podcaster is jealous of me. Well, bull hockey. You want something to get worked up about? Find out your prostate is swollen to the size of a grapefruit and your proctologist has fingers the size of Dennis Creasel left leg That something to get worked up about Ooh last time I felt like that I was in my skivvies playing pinball and took a shooter knob up the keister when I accidentally backed up into my Star Wars machine. It had that big ol' Death Star knob on there and you try pulling off that and spring action keeps pulling you back and away. Well, it wasn't pretty. Trending down is my ability to hold my temper while listening to these random podcasters, these dang nabber-fragger. Oh, yeah. Uh-uh.
    56:19
    Uh-uh. All right, Dennis, when there's no news, we create news. And this week, we're going to create another most valuable player entry into the pinball show. we've done this a couple times i'm liking the way this is rolling where we randomly pick a machine and you and i cast a most valuable player designation to one of the creators on the team responsible for that game okay i remember how to play we are going to each pick our most valuable player and it's going to go up on a big wall and a plaque uh you know an imaginary one Hey, Sare Bear, can you get me a random number from 1 to 100?
    57:06
    It's 79. Oh, 79. We're going deep now. Let's see what 79 is. Okay. All right, Dennis, number 79 is Flash Gordon by Bally back in 1981. I guess, did Bell Games do, I think Bell Games did it. Bell Games is a foreign manufacturer that would have built it for an overseas market. Oh, yeah, they're from Bologna, Italy. Oh, Bologna. Do you eat bologna? I, not often, but I don't not eat it. I like fried bologna. That's about the only bologna I can do. All right, who's our MVP for Flash Gordon? I guess I'll go first. I think you went first last time. My MVP, there's not much to choose from here because as an earlier, you know, as a solid Yeah, they don't list very much on IPDB in terms of people who worked on it. Yeah, and there's not, I mean, call-outs wise, it's got, they do the squawk, squawk and talk stuff on that one i think um no it didn't it did he used it because you hear the like uh try again earthlings yes emperor ming awaits see i would probably have given it if i knew the voice over person do you think it's from the film it might be okay i would give it to the call out emperor ming but since i don't know who that is i'm gonna give it to the designer um who's the designer again claude fernandez claude fernandez i'm gonna give it to claude fernandez because there are a lot of fun things this is a brutal game that's why it still holds up today in my opinion and a very unique layout i like the two spinner combo and i even like the drop target loop kind of thing um really tough game i is this it's like one of the only games i can think of that is a a kicker that can do two things right right right up or can kick over the center kick out whole will kick down and then up alternating so if i had to give it to anybody it would probably be whoever did the mechanics of this and that might be claude that might be why we don't see other names it could be he may have done it all in particular my favorite thing this is this is me being razzle dazzle zach again my favorite part of flash gordon is that damn strobe strobe light in the back box i love that thing but i was reading on ipdb here and i didn't realize this that a lot of people complained about that strobe light, and they got rid of it during production. And the window is covered up on some of those games. Yeah, I think the ones I've played in the area do have the strobe. I love the strobe. Anytime I pick up one of these things that hasn't been shopped out, the strobe's always not working. But when it is working, that is a sight right there. That is a sight. So whoever did the strobe in the Emperor Ming call-outs, but by default, I'm going old Claude Fernandez. Who's your MVP? I'd have to go with Claude Fernandez as well. Sorry, Kevin O'Connor. Yeah, sorry, Kevin. I like the art fine for it. Art's fine, yeah. But I often, when people ask me, I always describe Flash Gordon as the hardest game of the 80s because even successful shots are punished. Even if you make your shot, like if you hit those inline drops, you're in trouble. You make any of the drop targets, you're in trouble. it's like nothing is safe on that game so it can be very frustrating for people uh now in terms of the i'm not i'm not a huge claude fernandez fan and he did a lot of he was with williams really briefly and and you may you may know this but it's a kind of interesting story for those that don't but steve richie if i remember correctly and i apologize if i'm wrong so bear in mind this is me trying to dredge things up from the past but i believe steve richie accused claude fernandez of stealing this design from him oh more specifically solid state drama more so yeah more specifically that i mean claude had been with williams he made a game called blackout in 1980 with him and then what happened is what what comes out in in 1981 but flash gordon and then separate from that what was at the end of 1980 that williams made that also had black night there you go has had an upper playfield. And so the story, as it goes, is that Claude had seen Steve working on Black Knight before he left Williams. He'd seen the drawing or the whitewood or whatever. And so he, when he went over to Valley, recreated as best he could from memory what he remembered seeing Steve had done. And that ended up being what we see as Flash Gordon. Now, I don't know for certainty on that or not. I've also heard some of the other Bally games that Fernandez has. You can see similarities with other designs that Williams have been working on while he was still there. Okay. So there were suggestions that he poached a number of things. Now, the interesting thing to me is, as you know, I'm a big Steve Ritchie fan. He's my favorite solid-state pinball designer. But I actually greatly prefer Flash Gordon over Black Knight. I think a lot of people probably – pinball, pinball people. I think a lot of people probably would. I just – I enjoy it a lot more. The only reason I have not tried to get a Flash Gordon is when I have people over to play. I think this is so brutal, it might actually turn people off to pinball. So I've been more than happy just to play it on location, drop quarters and play it on location. It's hard to find a nice one, too. Yeah, even our location ones, while they were in pretty good shape, a lot of stuff wouldn't always work. Like the two-way kick-out hole, it really would struggle, I've noticed, on these copies to kick it back up and actually not just immediately fall back into the kick-out hole, for example. yeah it can be a very difficult uh high power flipper shot needed to get all the way back into the shooter lane well that like the flippers you have to have those rebuilt because that that left ramp is pretty far away and if you got some sluggish flippers forget it and as it was common with these early 80s games uh flipper hop really common with the ball going down the in lanes and then you know trying to trap up can sometimes be difficult because as soon as it gets to the flipper it does a little hop yep and you're like aren't these aligned like yeah no that's just that's what it is it's a bastard enough game you don't need stuff like that yeah hindering your progress yeah i'd give it to claude what else did claude do then because i blackout's a cool game too yeah i don't have much memory of blackout he did um in terms of class of 81 bally he also did electro and embryon so those both i'm a claude fan of both of those games i think are damn cool I really like Embryon Yeah Embryon's an interesting one I'm not It's so wide I don't have a ton of fun with it He did Skateball With Bally Oh my gosh Where's this guy coming from? My ignorance here is just showing Skateball's great too And then he He did three more games with Bally In the later years He did Spectrum He did Baby Pac-Man Oh Claude He did Granny and the Gators Claude And then he went to Daddy East And did Torpedo Alley Yeah good I like Torpedo Alley too and he did the design for Airborne with Capcom and that's the last game he did that's a fun game too I'm mixed on that game it's cool, it looks cool, but it's a little repetitive and you have to have some flippers to fucking make shots that's the thing with all Capcom but man, Claude is clouding my mind right now man, I feel like I'm listening to Silverball Chronicles here, thank you for that Dennis so our MVP is a double stack here yep both going Claude Fernandez probably inevitable to happen eventually what do you think Claude's doing nowadays uh not sure I assume retired I know he's been to pinball shows and spoken on panels and stuff I've never seen him though so hmm we're gonna have to see if uh David Dennis and Ron Hallett want to maybe do a where are they now where's Claude Fernandez now maybe he'll touch on it when they do their I'm sure they're gonna do Capcom at some point yeah that would be cool So congratulations, Claude. You are the MVP for both Dennis and I, and you will be eternalized on the wall of MVPs at the Pinball Show headquarters. Congratulations.
    65:15
    Make me want to go out and play Flash Gordon. Yeah, I kind of wish I had one right now, actually. all right dennis that was our show episode 22 of the pinball show what do these people need to do between now and next time they need to subscribe to us on facebook and youtube and twitch and all the other stuff we have some interesting inner workings right now that we're working out on uh the pinball network right yeah hopefully we'll be able to give some more news here in upcoming days continuing to build. We're six months in and I'm very happy with the progress that we have made and the exposure that we have built with everybody. So keep that up. As a reminder, everybody, Off The Record Pinball Podcast, it's there for your use. So if you want to fire up that microphone and try your own podcast out, that's what that is there for and we'll help you along the way if you need any help. So email us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com for more information regarding that. Dennis, where can people catch you between the pinball network and the next recording sesh. I always reach out through the other podcast I do, Eclectic Gamers Podcast, which is at eclecticgamers.com for the website, or you can email eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com and check it. Very terrific. Are you still selling the AGP t-shirts? Yeah, over with Teespring, yeah. I like that. I'm still wearing mine all the time. We've been trying. We wanted to have a special t-shirt for episode 100, but our designer has had to keep delaying, And so that's still, in theory, happening at some stage. I'm hoping to have an update in August about that. Damn artists. And if you guys would be so kind, review us on iTunes. That would be great. We got some pretty good reviews overall over there. Now, that goes usually to the Pinball Network in general. So if you love a particular show or shows, go over there and rate us. Do it right now, actually. Help us out. Do it right now. We want to boost those reviews up. You can also go to the This Week in Pinball database. We're not doing so well over there, Dennis. I haven't checked in a while. When I said we, I mean me. For the pinball show, we've got some really low reviews. This last one was submitted by Dave S. July 5th. Oh, it's like mean tweets. The caption of the review is, Dennis is great, but he needs less mini.
    67:36
    He says, started listening to the show based on the SDTM reviews and the fun that Greg and Zach had doing these. that has not transferred to the pinball show dennis brings a professional side to things everybody loves dennis of course and zach is the sidekick a sidekick is just way too over the top and he's not even funny parentheses although he thinks he is you do think you are that's true now there's a difference between thinking and knowing but i will go on uh let's stick to the news and pinball and some honest reviews we don't do reviews but whatever i think dennis needs the other sdtm guys partner oh hashtag ouch i don't know how well greg and i would work together actually you know originally the theory was we would both be doing the show but on separate days so we weren't ever actually going our our paths shall not intertwine yeah i don't know if the world can handle such a thing we really don't when it needs a buffer but uh sidekick thing that's really weird you actually do the all the production work on this show i do it but not here sidekick oh no i'm really far more of the sidekick i feel like a an old segment should be reinstituted no hashtag dig of the week take take take take take of the week god dave what happened to us you were fine with me on uh on straight down the middle of pinball show of course you worship Greg and here I am creating more beautiful wonderful informative awesome content and here you are loving my co-host the hell where's the Zach love out there people so go to the This Week in Pinball database and if you want to leave us a review there I do follow that to see what hateful things that people say show us some love damn it have we not earned that yet? I don't know if they don't love us they probably shouldn't give us five stars but if you don't if you don't like it then you probably shouldn't listen either it's kind of the thing so don't be a dick on the database database dick that's almost our calling them database dicks don't be a double d upon your next purchase of a pinball machine or an escalator stair climbing hand truck call us at flipping out pinball that's flip the letter in out pinball.com or email me at zach zach at flip in out pinball.com or call me, text me, 812-457-9711. I'm going to tell you guys, there is some cool, cool stuff about to hit the market in the next couple months. Why not get ahead of the game? Get on that interested list of those rumored games so you don't have to worry about the hustle and bustle and rushing around. Am I going to get a game? Who am I going to cut? No, it's already done. It's already done. TPN last week, we had a lot of good podcasts, a lot of good streams. I am loving this top five stream clip. Oh, yeah, that seems to be going over really well. It's a good idea. Was that George's idea? That was We Love Pinball. Oh, well, good job. One of our new affiliates. Because people seem to really enjoy that. I think We Love Pinball is out of Germany. No, this next week. I've already seen the Discord clips that people are clipping. I don't know how he's going to clip five. There's some good stuff. It's going to get cat throat competitive. People are going to be shiving each other over this stuff. That's right. Dude, Mystery Pinball. If you guys aren't listening and following and watching the stream of Mystery Pinball Theater. His stream is so good. Oh, he is so freaking entertaining. I have the sock song stuck in my head. Where my socks at? And then the Jurassic Park by Fliptronic doing the opening with the Jurassic Park heads. Oh, MPT3K has another submission that you're likely going to see if not winning this next week's top five with another little ditty that gets stuck in your head. So go follow and watch those streamers today. So for Dennis Creasel, I am Zach Minney. Go out and play yourself some pinball and have fun. And remember that they're not lima beans or a nice Chianti.
    71:42
    What the hell? You always shock me because I never know what you're going to say. I thought you were going to say something about Goya beans. I was like, I don't know. And always practice safe pinball. Again, if you're going to powder coat the legs green and you're going to do a red lockdown bar and a yellow left side rail. Why would you match up the right side rail with the same green as the left? It doesn't make sense. You're taking crazy pills. Up. Ugh.
    72:27
    60% of the time, it works every time. That doesn't make sense. Well, let's go see if we can make this little kitty purr.
    72:41
    Oh, my God. What is that smell? That's the smell of desire, my lady. God, no. It smells like a used diaper filled with Indian food. Oh, excuse me. You know, desire smells like that to some people. What is that? It smells like a turd covered in burnt hair.
    73:06
    Smells like Big Bud's dick. Oh. Hey, that's great. Oh. I'm sorry. Come on home girl, he said with a smile I can't stop spending love on you, a woman from a child But try to understand, try to understand Oh, oh, try, try to understand. Try, try, try to understand. He's a magic man. Oh, yeah. Oh, you got magic hands.
    74:17
    you