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Women in Pinball - Working in the Industry - Pinball Expo 2025 - Pinball News

Pinball News (Pinball Expo 2025)·video·56m 27s·analyzed·Oct 19, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Women in pinball industry panel shares career stories, reveals hidden female labor in manufacturing, and highlights growing representation.

Summary

A Women in Pinball panel at Pinball Expo 2025 featuring industry professionals—Rebecca Hinsdale (Stern Parts Director), Cheryl Lineger (CERN Electrical Engineer), Melissa Marquette (Cointaker co-owner), Elizabeth Gieske (Stern Software Developer), Rachel Bess (Electric Bat Arcade owner), Emoto (Marco Specialties Marketing Director), and Kristen (Measel Mods owner)—discussing their career paths, daily work, and shifts in women's representation in pinball. Panelists highlighted that women comprise 70-80% of manufacturing at Stern despite being largely uncredited, emphasized community and mentorship as key to industry growth, and documented measurable increases in women purchasing machines (20% growth) and participating in competitive tournaments through initiatives like Bells and Chimes.

Key Claims

  • 70-80% of Stern pinball games are built by women, though these contributions are often uncredited

    high confidence · Rebecca Hinsdale directly stated this during the panel; she works in parts/accessories at Stern and has visibility into manufacturing

  • Women purchasing pinball machines has grown approximately 20% in recent years

    high confidence · Melissa Marquette (Cointaker co-owner, 20-year veteran) provided this figure based on sales data; specific timeframe mentioned was 20 years ago vs. current

  • There is a significant shortage of qualified pinball technicians even in Chicago, the pinball capital

    high confidence · Elizabeth Gieske explicitly stated this during discussion of career opportunities and skill gaps

  • Elizabeth Gieske worked on rules design for JAWS and D&D pinball at Stern

    high confidence · Gieske introduced herself as software developer doing 'rules design and things like for JAWS and D&D'

  • Electric Bat Arcade hosts the largest single-location pinball league in the world with 120 players on Tuesday nights

    high confidence · Rachel Bess stated this directly during her work description segment

  • Rebecca Hinsdale took over a parts department that was 'a mess' from a 19-year predecessor

    high confidence · Hinsdale described the transition and cleanup work she undertook since joining Stern

  • Bells and Chimes was started approximately 8 years ago and has expanded to multiple chapters with improved inclusivity for queer and non-binary players

    high confidence · Multiple panelists (Cheryl Lineger, Rachel Bess) confirmed founding and growth; Rachel emphasized queer-friendly nature

  • Cheryl Lineger has been at CERN (pinball manufacturer) for only 1.5 years and is the only woman in the lab doing cable harness design

    high confidence · Lineger introduced herself and described her lab experience directly

Notable Quotes

  • “I like pinball and I'm still in pinball because I still like pinball. I find also that at Electric Bat, it's probably more than 50% women a lot of the time. I think just don't be an asshole, and the people will want to be there.”

    Rachel Bess @ ~3:45 — Core philosophy on creating inclusive community spaces; directly addresses how to retain women in pinball

  • “Most of your games are 70% to 80% of them, at least from Stern, are built by women...they built it or they sold it or they shipped it or they...are working on it they're teching it they're wiring it”

    Rebecca Hinsdale @ ~8:20 — Major revelation about hidden female labor in pinball manufacturing; challenges visibility narratives

  • “You can't be what you can't see. So I think just by having more women in the industry, naturally there's going to be more women in the industry”

    Elizabeth Gieske @ ~32:15 — Gloria Steinem paraphrase articulating the mentorship/visibility mechanism driving industry change

  • “I wake up every day thinking about pinball and go to sleep every day thinking about pinball and dream it too”

    Elizabeth Gieske @ ~28:45 — Illustrates passion and obsessive focus required to succeed in pinball software development

  • “When someone calls me and they're like, I have been trying to fix this thing forever...I find out why...and then all of a sudden they're calling you up and you're like, thank you so much”

    Rebecca Hinsdale @ ~20:50 — Demonstrates customer service philosophy and emotional reward of problem-solving in parts/operations

  • “I got a kit from the Internet that had surface mount chips...Didn't occur to her that this was not the tool for the job...she did it she did a surface mount chip with a chisel”

    Rachel Bess @ ~23:10 — Illustrates underestimating women's problem-solving and learning capacity; validates hands-on training approach

  • “We go from nipples and panty lines to people that are up here doing shit”

    Melissa Marquette — Stark contrast between historical objectification of women in pinball (backglass artwork) vs. current professional roles

Entities

Rebecca HinsdalepersonCheryl LinegerpersonMelissa MarquettepersonElizabeth GieskepersonRachel BesspersonEmotopersonKristen

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Significant shortage of qualified pinball technicians identified even in Chicago (pinball capital); represents skill gap and career opportunity

    high · Elizabeth Gieske explicitly stated 'there's still a huge shortage of techs that can come and help people fix pinball machines' and emphasized training opportunities

  • ?

    community_signal: Bells and Chimes organization explicitly serving as mentorship pipeline from women's-focused tournaments to professional circuits; visibility mechanism driving industry growth

    high · Multiple panelists (Cheryl, Rachel, Elizabeth) confirmed Bells and Chimes role; Elizabeth attributed her Stern hire to Bells and Chimes members (Taylor, Rebecca) bringing her resume; documented progression from league play to pro circuits

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo 2025 Women in Pinball panel represents institutionalization of women's visibility efforts in industry flagship event

    high · Panel explicitly noted this is 'second Women in Pinball panel'; attendees referenced 30-minute panel on representation held immediately prior

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Culture shift toward inclusive community spaces; Bells and Chimes explicitly emphasizes queer-friendly, non-binary-inclusive environment; Electric Bat reports 50%+ female clientele

    high · Rachel Bess (Electric Bat) stated 'probably more than 50% women a lot of the time' and philosophy 'don't be an asshole'; Elizabeth Gieske confirmed Bells and Chimes as 'queer friendly and super accepting'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rebecca Hinsdale's approach to parts/operations focuses on problem-solving and customer satisfaction (making games work) over blame; demonstrates service-oriented leadership

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.169

0:00
Let's get this party started, shall we, ladies? Right on. So I want to welcome you to the second Women in Pinball panel, and we've got some new faces up here, which is great, and some old faces. That's my role here. I'm the old face here.
0:25
Yeah, there's only a few of us that are old here, not to name any names. Thanks, Christy. So I want to just get started by having these ladies introduce themselves and just share something quickly about themselves, what their current role is. And, yeah, let's start there. So eeny, meeny, miny, moe. We'll start there. Okay. My name is Rebecca.
0:51
I am the director of parts, accessories, and merchandise at Stern Pinball. Yeah, you guys. Hello. My name is Rebecca Hinsdale. I am the director of parts, accessories, and merchandise at Stern Pinball. I've been there almost four years now, I believe. And I started, actually, this show is ultimately what really got me hooked on pinball. I've been coming to Expo for years and years, and I never thought when I was playing at four in the morning at the Westin that I would be working in pinball. Hi, my name is Cheryl Lineger. I'm an electrical engineer at CERN. I've been there only a year and a half, so less time than Rebecca, but I do cable harness design and yeah, that's what I do there. Thanks, you guys. Hello, I'm Melissa Marquette with Cointaker. My husband and I own Cointaker. I'm more of the face of Cointaker and do more of the business part of it where he's background technical. So we've been doing this for almost 20 years now. Nice. Hi, I'm Elizabeth Gieske. I am a software developer at Stern. I do rules design and things like for JAWS and D&D. And more to come.
@ ~31:00

  • “There's a huge need for pinball techs out there...even in Chicago pinball capital of the world...there's still a huge shortage of techs”

    Elizabeth Gieske @ ~36:45 — Industry opportunity gap; identifies career pathway for interested women

    • person
    Stern Pinballcompany
    CERNcompany
    Cointakercompany
    Electric Bat Arcadecompany
    Marco Specialtiescompany
    Marco Pinballcompany
    Measel Modscompany
    Bells and Chimesorganization
    Pinball Expoevent
    Captain Crazy's Paradisecompany
    Kaleperson
    Patrick Swayzeperson
    Taylorperson

    medium · Hinsdale emphasized finding root causes (wrong part numbers in manuals, incorrect assembly specifications) and the emotional reward of enabling customers to play their machines

  • $

    market_signal: Invisible female contribution narrative: 70-80% of Stern games built by women but credit goes to visible designers/management; panel making this hidden labor explicit

    high · Rebecca Hinsdale stated 'There are women that are building games, that have been building games, that have been drawing on games...they're just not necessarily the ones that you know about' and '70% to 80% of them'

  • $

    market_signal: Women purchasing pinball machines documented at ~20% growth; includes new demographic segments (mothers buying for children, grandmothers buying for multi-family Christmas gifts)

    high · Melissa Marquette (Cointaker, 20-year operator) stated '20% of actual women purchasing that's fantastic' and contrasted with situation 20 years prior; noted family purchasing patterns

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Cheryl Lineger is only woman in CERN electrical/lab team despite doing critical cable design and whitewood testing; represents isolated female presence in core manufacturing

    high · Lineger stated 'I'm like the only lady in the lab every day' and described daily work being questioned on timelines by male colleagues

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Rebecca Hinsdale transitioned from Pinball Expo attendee/competitive player to Stern Pinball Parts Director (~4 years tenure); exemplifies player-to-employee pathway

    high · Hinsdale stated 'I never thought when I was playing at four in the morning at the Westin that I would be working in pinball' and confirmed almost 4 years at Stern

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Elizabeth Gieske's hire at Stern came through network of Bells and Chimes members after 1-year resume waiting period; suggests deliberate outreach/networking vs. public job postings

    high · Gieske stated 'I had like probably many people in this room...I slipped my resume over to some people that I know and I fingers crossed and I got lucky' and later confirmed 'Rebecca and Taylor brought your resume in'

    • 2:31
    I'm Rachel Bess. I own Electric Bat Arcade. And my husband, Kale, owns some of it. He married into it. So Electric Bat.
    2:47
    Hey, y'all. Imoto here. I'm Marco Specialties, Marco Pinball's Marketing Director. Please come check out our booth. There's 40 homebrew games, all unique games brought by awesome makers. So come check them out and get inspired by them. They're pretty great stuff. But I've been working with Marco for about six years now. So clearly I'm in some fantastic company with these ladies here. My name is Kristen, as I was introduced, and I own Measel Mods, an accessories company, and I've been in the business for 12 years now. I keep pinching myself every day going, is this really what I'm doing? So, yeah, so I'm really thrilled to have you guys here. So my first question for you guys is pinball isn't exactly known as a women-dominated space. So what drew you in and what keeps you in the industry? So we'll do this in the fashion of just jump in. Who wants to jump in first on this one?
    4:16
    I got into pinball because I like pinball, and I'm still in pinball because I still like pinball. I find also that at Electric Bat, it's probably more than 50% women a lot of the time. I think just don't be an asshole, and the people will want to be there. So I really feel like if you don't make it a big deal, it's not a big deal. So the more you're just inviting to everybody, the cool people will stay and the dicks will leave.
    4:56
    Yeah. Age advised right there. It's a rule for life, right? It's like, just be cool, man. and be cool, Daddy-O. Yeah, for me, I think when I first got into pinball, like, I always knew about pinball. I played Lord of the Rings, and I'm like, wow, that, like, destroy the ring thing was really cool, and they're like, you destroyed the ring? And I'm like, yeah, the game broke. I don't know what happened.
    5:21
    But tournaments, like, actually really brought me in, as well as Rebecca probably can admit to as well. But just to see, like, this competitive element, and I'm like, oh, I can probably do that, too. and then you see some skills involved, and then it's like a puzzle box, and then you just get deeper and deeper there. So I think from then on, knowing that once you can get better at something and you can invest time into this, then yeah. But I never thought I would be able to do software because I would be ridiculous.
    5:55
    But I was glad to be proven wrong there. Yeah, I was on Medicaid and food stamps, And I was like, man, I need insurance. I'm going to be an engineer, I guess. I like math. I'm good at math. But I never really cared about it that much. Yeah, pinball was always this thing that I got into when I was going to college. And it was just always the thing I was doing when I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing. You know what I mean?
    6:23
    And then my friend Jesse, who's here today, invited me to do like a beginner's tournament because I was just hanging out at the arcade all the time playing. I couldn't get enough. And then I was playing tournaments and stuff. and then my dream came true. So that's, yeah.
    6:40
    Fantastic. Yeah, I definitely started from just playing in tournaments and, you know, happened to, you know, I had, like probably many people in this room, COVID really kind of threw me for a loop and changed the trajectory of my career. And I kind of slipped my resume over to some people that I know. and I fingers crossed and I got lucky.
    7:05
    But, you know, it's interesting when you say that pinball isn't known as a women-dominated field. Once I started actually working in pinball, I realized how many women are actually working in pinball behind the scenes.
    7:20
    Most of your games are 70% to 80% of them, at least from Stern, are built by women. There are women that are building games, that have been building games, that have been drawing on games. And, you know, I can't sit up here and say that, you know, can't not acknowledge that there have been so many nameless, you know, people that put in the work and women that have been working in this industry for a long time, and they're just not necessarily the ones that you know about or you hear about or the name that you hear that, you know, that is known for the game, but most likely they built it. or they sold it or they shipped it or they you know they are working on it they're teching it they're wiring it so um so i i also wanted to kind of you know mention that um this panel is obviously about women in pinball and it's about putting uh and more um focus on it mostly to encourage other you know other people to kind of like pursue what you want and um you know that it is possible and that even if you don't you don't think that there's that many involved um there are a lot there are a lot of people behind the scenes that are really doing a lot great work. So when I met my husband and we were just starting to date and I went to his house there was 22 pinball machines in his house. So needless to say we started a business operating and from operating we decided that we were tired of changing light bulbs so we went to LEDs and then I decided I was going to quit my job and sell pinball machines.
    9:13
    And here we are today. Awesome. Oh, yeah. What about you, ladies? Oh, man. No comment. I guess pinball is just so beautiful. And my background as a cinematographer originally, like, drew me into just that kinetic beauty. and as I started going to shows and watching people play. I don't really play in tournaments too much, but definitely when I was at Museum of Pinball in 2016 and they had the TV screens with the play field camera over and watching them play it. And Kenny Hardy, who was one of the curators, was like, hey, just stand here, stop filming, and watch what they're doing right there. And it was like Keith Owen and Zach Sharp battling and then watching how they were controlling the ball and getting these crazy scores. I was like, oh, you can actually do that in pinball, you know, and being at the Museum of Pinball, seeing hundreds and hundreds of games and learning like these were these ones were built by these designers and these artists and, you know, these engineers and check these ones out over here and just seeing that history just you just dive down into this uh awesome rabbit hole and then you meet the community of people that are surrounding it and it's like there's just so much uh learning so much to experience like uh pinball never gets old so it always just keeps keeps me in yeah keeps giving huh yeah yeah yeah yeah thank you all so uh my next question is about helping our audience understand what it you know we're women working in pinball so what can you describe for us uh what is it what is your typical day like working in pinball. Mine begins with where is my order? So how about you guys? I can relate to that for sure. I'm going to skip that one. You can buy Melissa a drink later and she'll answer that question.
    11:38
    No, my normal typical day starts with me going in, printing out my orders, and then customers, Where's my game? Where's my game? Where's my game? What number am I? How many more do I have to wait? How much longer? You know, or can I get this shipped with this and this? And it's just it's probably about 100 phone calls a day, more than 100 emails, text messages, Facebook messages. And it's nonstop. So and we pretty much work 365 days a year, even when we're on vacation. So we take orders, take phone calls.
    12:16
    So, you know, that's my day. Do you have any Winchesters left in the city? Actually, I should be completely out.
    12:29
    I feel like when I wake up, and so I work remote. I actually live in Kentucky, so I go on to Zoom, I log in, and then I get dogged on for not being around during the 70s for like an hour.
    12:42
    And then I finally to get actual work done, which, I mean, you plan out your day. Try that Zoom, like, so, because there's a Zoom. There is a Zoom meeting. Yeah, we have a daily Zoom meeting that the PD, what does that stand for? Product development.
    12:59
    That's what I assume. No, that's totally not the same thing. So someone puts it on, and then everyone who's cool joins. So I don't know why you guys aren't. I've never been invited to this meeting. Yeah, we go in and we talk music and we talk pinball. And I mean, I like sitting in there. It makes me feel like I'm in an office without having to be in Chicago.
    13:20
    So and then we all just kind of work silently and you can keep your camera on or not. And people go into breakout rooms and Lonnie goes into room seven for like five hours with Mike. And then they come out and then John Wick happened, you know, or whatever game that they're working on. Um, so it's, it's really neat to like, and you like hear all these stories about, you know, Pinocchio is, is talking about, you know, his time at Williams and bringing up, you know, ground shaker or whatever that game is that he keeps bringing up. What, what is it? Earth shaker. Boy, goodness, these, these guys. No, no. I, I mean, every once in a while I'm like, man, I'm with the greats and it makes me excited to um hopefully step into their their shoes but yeah and then I do my job at some point in the day and then I get pulled aside because the script needs work and then you need to talk with the sound guy. Hi, Jerry. And then you got to talk to the art guys, Jeremy in here, right? So it takes a team, and then at some point, I can actually get some code written. And then you have to play it, and then you realize that none of it worked, and you have to go back and write it again, and then test it again, and then you realize it works, but it's not fun, so you've got to go back and work on it again.
    14:35
    So, yeah, it's all this back and forth, and I get to play a lot of pinball, and I get to think about pinball, talk about pinball, and that's pretty much the day. And then, yeah, I eat, and then I do more pinball, and then I sleep, and then I do more pinball, and it all repeats.
    14:52
    The dream. Yeah. so running an arcade is really as fun as you think it is um so we wake up every morning smiling and excited to go to work uh we show up something may have caught on fire something is jammed there's weird shit that we don't know what it is stuck to something over here there's mysterious little baggies somewhere around the arcade um but every day is a different adventure You show up, you don't know what you're going to find there, and you fix a bunch of games. Sometimes it's easy and fun, and sometimes it is hard and fun.
    15:36
    There's a lot of just getting really your hands dirty and hanging out with a fantastic pinball community. So for us, it really is about that community, and that's what makes it fun. but everything that we do is I mean it's just really Kale and I doing 90 percent 95 percent of the work there so everything you can think of from janitor to uh board board work is what we do all day long and it's you know it can be a 15 hour day seven days a week but that's what we signed up for and it really is like the best job in the world and you guys are doing some um social media stuff too so all the things associated with that oh yeah yeah we do podcast a lot of podcasting a lot of uh well we have yeah the largest single location pinball league in the world so we have you know 120 people come out every tuesday night and it is and everybody gets along and it's awesome.
    16:49
    Yeah, we do a lot. Kale is social media man, so if you see electric bat social media stuff, that's all him. He deserves some major kudos for that. Yay, Kale.
    17:02
    Yes, we do a lot. Everything you can imagine that has to do with an arcade, some of it's paperwork and that's not fun, but the rest of it is fun. anybody else want to chime in on their yeah sure i'll go next day uh so he works remote and then we've got a lady reina uh that also does cable design with the electrical team and she's full time remote so i'm like the only lady in the lab uh every day so i get there and i go in the lab and it's either like stand around while people build things uh and then once they're built it's like Cheryl why isn't this wired yet like why couldn't you do that instantly you know what I mean um so it's a lot of wiring and then I do like all the diagnostics testing on all the whitewoods so uh every version of the game that we make before it's released I get to be the guy that goes in there and kind of like puts it all together and sees it work for the first time which is awesome uh the first game that I got to do like my own little wire on was uh they 3d printed a sentinel head for x-men and i got to make the wire that made it like go up and down so like first time we saw the sentinel head go up and down i was totally uh partially responsible for that and that felt sick um and honestly i feel like a lot of my day is me being like hell yeah you know like doing shit like that and being uh stoked on it um yeah and then uh you know a lot of the cable design is like cad work and stuff or it's like oh shit we didn't make this long enough for, you know, we did this this way and we got to change it. So a lot of my job is kind of just catching those things as we go through that design process and letting people know before it goes to production and they make like, you know, a ton of them.
    18:50
    It's just my job at that. Yeah. And then I'm like, sorry. No, no, I don't think we haven't. I haven't messed up too bad yet. All right. That's yeah, that's good. Right. That's good. That's most of it. Yeah.
    19:05
    I took over for someone that worked in the parts department for 19 years. And when I took it on, it was a mess. So a lot of my day has changed quite a bit, has evolved quite a bit. my goal is always to just make sure that parts are available for people to buy, make sure games are working. I will identify problems. I, you know, my first, first thing I did when I first started, the only thing that I was like allowed to do, because my, my predecessor or did not like me very much.
    19:54
    I was in charge of making sure that warranties were getting shipped. And, you know, obviously warranties are somebody got a game, it didn't work, and we need to fix it, you know. And those, to me, are more important than anything, you know, to make sure that the games are working, to make sure that the investment of the community is, you know, you're not going to spend, you know, thousands of dollars on something and have it not work right. And so that was my focus. And now as I've been there a couple years, you know, we've made a lot of improvements. But really the things that make me happy to go to work is the people that I work with. I love solving problems. I love solving someone's problem. When someone calls me and they're like, I have been trying to fix this thing forever. This part has been out of stock and I find out why. And sometimes it's something silly like the part number was wrong in the manual and they were ordering the wrong thing over and over and over again and not getting what they needed. Or the assembly was built incorrectly and the stock that we had was the wrong bracket. You know, those kinds of things seem so simple and silly, but when you can find that problem, you fix it, and you ship to somebody and they're able to make a game work, and then all of a sudden they're calling you up and you're like, thank you so much. I can finally play my Elvira that's been sitting dark for the last four months.
    21:28
    And that's really what I live for. And again, you know, the people, it's really about the people. You know, I'm not going to sit up here and tell you that it's not a job. and that it's not hard and that there's not times where I'm just like,
    21:40
    I get the Sunday scaries where I have to like, okay, I got to go to work on Monday and I'm going to have to deal with this thing that happened and we shipped these things and it was wrong and I have to deal with that. But ultimately, the people that are there, I've never met more dedicated, more people that are so passionate about what they do than since I've started working at Pinball. You know, and there's a lot of personalities and there's a lot of things you got to work around and there's a lot of people. I'm sure Melissa and I, we're very similar in that, you know, you get people that are upset about things. And usually I'm able to get on the phone and just, when you can find a common ground and talk about what they like or focus, you know, find the problem, let them tell you their problem, find a solution. and then remind them of why they love pinball so much, I can usually turn a person that is quite upset about something to somebody that's telling me the next game they're going to buy.
    22:40
    And I just, you know, my dream is to talk about pinball 24-7, and that's what I get to do that now. So that's great. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I will say you are a total rock star instead for you helping us at Marco and stuff too you know with all the parts like I enjoy working with you a lot like you saved us a lot thanks yeah thank you yeah thank you very much and you push hard on making things right which yeah I mean you know we're all like we're a business of humans everything is built by hands there are hundreds of fingers that are making things and mistakes happen and it's about finding those and fixing them yeah nice yeah what about you lady oh man uh so i um run an arcade too Captain Crazy's Paradise with my family and I am the resident tech although still learning so much on how to work on games and doing content with Marco working with these brilliant techs all across the country and world has helped me a lot on that but I was kind of curious with you Rachel if you have like a set kind of schedule on when you work on games or like how you navigate through that so because you know I do my stuff with Marco which is marketing directing all the ads and stuff you see online the emails and then of course the show presentations which takes up a lot of time so I travel a lot and kind of like navigating how to go through like people saying oh like this switch isn't working oh the spinner fell off oh the flippers you know machine gunning or not registering like how do you go about like I guess like some tips on how you manage that because with my crazy going all over the place like that's what I kind of forget and then I come back to the arcade you know after expo and they're like Emoto this flipper still sucks oh yeah oh my gosh let me go you know fix that yeah for us it's i mean it's it's really important to me to have all the games working and if not all like all but one or so um triage right because pinball breaks every day there's just that it's it's physical it's mechanical it's a heavy metal ball hitting 45 year old plastic. So it's, but it's something that we do every single day. So we have the luxury of, of being there every day and not, not traveling around. But I think the most important thing for me, whenever I get to the arcade, that is my, my primary focus is if there's something down, what is it? And if there's more than one thing down, what's the thing that I can fix the fastest first and going in that order. So anything that's going to be like, Oh, this symptom, I'm sure that this is just a wire that got desoldered or broke off a lug somewhere. I can fix this in three minutes. This other thing is going to be, well, this is a transistor and something else most likely, so that's going to take me forever because WPC just love to put like 900 connectors on their power driver.
    26:19
    So I think that that's really important. It's just to try and work on the simplest stuff first, the fastest stuff first, get some momentum, And then if you can delegate, that would be even better. We've got a new tech in training, and she's awesome. Her name is Patrick Swayze. Yeah. And she – like if you – yeah, right? Yeah.
    26:44
    So I have – this is a little bit of a tangent, but it's a funny story and kind of related about if you don't tell somebody that they can't do something, they'll probably figure out a way to do it. She wanted to learn to solder and work on, you know, specifically like on board stuff. She could solder basic wires together and things. But she had this like gnarly, almost plumber's soldering iron with the like super wide chisel tip. You all have seen these, right? And then she got a kit from the Internet that had surface mount chips. She could build some little LED thing that would do something. Didn't occur to her that this was not the tool for the job, right? she did it she did a surface mount chip with a with the chisel that's precious I think like right you just just don't tell people that they can't do something and they will do it so totally unrelated but she's grown so fast that now I can say hey go figure this out go do this and that takes the load off us so training as many people as you can to do anything from you know just the basic changing rubbers, solder a wire, make sure that all of your stuff is tight, always be tightening to prevent stuff from breaking.
    28:03
    But yes, that is, it's an everyday job. Yeah. That's good advice. Yeah just evolving through it My dad getting older he doesn have stable hands anymore so where he could just easily I don know why these wires always break off a coil so fast. We'd switch them. Yeah, and why did they put three wires onto one lug? Like, come on. But so now we figured out you just get alligator clips, and he just kind of alligator clips the lug and then the wire, and then when I come back, I can just be like, boop, boop, boop. But what your tip is is actually like that. I'm going to take that because it is like the chaos of your day. You're working your day job, and then you want to work on your games, and sometimes operating and stuff is a secondary job, and then you have like this long list of things to work on, and you're like, okay, this one is the super important one, and like you said, the most complex. So taking away all the little baby ones that you don't need as much, like brain molecules at midnight.
    29:12
    I'm going to have to remember that. You also need a protege. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need a Patrick Swayze. Don't we all need a Patrick Swayze? You do, you do. She's the best.
    29:28
    It's ironic because that's like my day, only not physical. but it's like like you know you think you're going to do your thing and you're like you got your steps and then the game crashes and you're like never mind all of that i gotta you know triage and you know you fix the crash or and then you you try to reproduce the bug or whatever is that flipper not hard wearing wires and lug nuts um but no it's it's it's the same with software as well with um trying to you know there's there's certain there's bugs there's crashes and then there's unintended features and then um those are the ones that we just they're fine they're fine that those are at the bottom of the list yeah i guess i wake up every day thinking about pinball and go to sleep every day thinking about pinball and and dream it too you know what's the next thing that we're going to do you know to promote it to fix it to help keep it alive you know that's Awesome. Awesome. All right. Let's switch gears a little bit. I want to have you all kind of share what you've noticed around how women are represented, how it's how women representation, how that has changed over the years in the community, in the industry, however you want to frame that. So how have you seen what changes have you seen in how women are represented? I think they just did a 30-minute panel right before us about that, right? We go from nipples and panty lines to people that are up here doing shit.
    31:06
    I mean, really, like, to be the most concise, that is really what pinball used to be for women, is we got to show our TNA on a back glass. Yeah, me. and Jesus well I certainly see a lot more women purchasing pinball machines yes in the last few years it has grown at least 20% of actual women purchasing that's fantastic 20%?
    31:43
    that is awesome that's great I was around 20 years ago too and it wasn't anywhere close to them. But more and more women are even buying them for their husbands for presents. But they're also buying them for their children, their kids. I mean, we even have grandmothers that, you know, buy two or three and they'll send one to each family at Christmas time. You know, they have three different grandkids in three different areas. I want that grandma. Can I be in that family? It has happened multiple times, but we are seeing many more women purchasing.
    32:17
    I love that. Yeah, so we also have a barcade, a pin bar. So we actually see a lot of more women coming in with their husbands and enjoying that time and playing as well.
    32:33
    Okay, so I guess I feel like I got lucky. I do Bells and Chimes with Rebecca, and two of the Bells that I knew are the ones that brought my resume in. And it still took like a year for Stern to get back to me. But when they got back to me, they were like, Rebecca and Taylor brought your resume in. Like they knew.
    32:58
    And so I want to do like a Gloria Steinem paraphrase, which I think is you can't be what you can't see.
    33:08
    So I think just by having more women in the industry, naturally there's going to be more women in the industry and so yeah maybe it's hard now but like it's also kind of an honor right to be somebody that's uh showing women that love pinball like you could do this we do this you know and that's sick for us uh and then also just in the hobby and in the community i feel like uh bells and chimes our bells and chimes chapter at least is really uh queer friendly and super accepting of all non-binary people, all feminine identifying people. And I think that's really important because it's not, Bells and Chimes is not just like, you know, just safety for women, but safety for the queer community too. And I think that our scene is changing in that way as a safer space. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I was going to mention Bells and Chimes as well. Me and my sister and our buddies who are here, hi, started Bells and Chimes about eight years ago. I mean, obviously our chapter, because Bells and Chimes was started in Oakland, but I've seen more women play, they get more comfortable, they start traveling, they start playing in other tournaments, and now they're playing in the pro circuits. going to they're representing and again I I totally agree like if you see people and you're like hey I like that I want to do that the visibility is where it's at because because again you know women have been in pinball for decades it's just you see them now and they're they're more involved and they are finding spaces that make them more comfortable and even if they start in bells and then they start playing in mixed and then they start a podcast or they start streaming or they start making a homebrew.
    35:09
    You know, they really want to figure out how to fix games and they buy a kid on the Internet and start fixing shit, you know. From Marco Pinball.
    35:19
    And there's a huge need for pinball techs out there, you guys. I mean, there's always, even we are in the home of pinball, you know, Chicago is pinball capital of the world and there's still a huge shortage of techs that can come and help people fix pinball machines so um you know seeing people do it uh talking to people and um being comfortable enough to kind of take a little bit of a leap you know maybe it's handing your resume to a fellow bell or handing you know sliding a resume over to someone at expo or um you know that's it's just about kind of taking the chance, I guess. I also think that these shows help a lot because families come in. You have young kids, I mean, young girls, young boys coming in, and they start playing at a young age. Our granddaughter's two years old. The first place she runs is to the pinball machine. She actually pulls out a Marco stepstool. Yeah.
    36:21
    And she knows how to put the coins in, and she knows how to start, and she will actually start flipping the flippers. So she's two years old and already into pinball. I like that she knows how to put the coins in. Yes, she does. That's my favorite part.
    36:37
    The problem is that she puts them in every game so that everybody gets a free game. Bring her to a lecture back. She's generous. She's aiding the pinball community. Yes, she is. So I want to ask the question about if you could talk to yourself as a younger person, what advice would you give to a younger you about pursuing a job in the industry?
    37:10
    Or it could be not you younger. It could be one of the younger people that is attending this show. I would say play more pinball. I think someone important said that at some point.
    37:27
    Anyways, but I mean, it's to learn to love the thing. Like, I think we can all agree that we just need more people that love what they do.
    37:38
    And so I think it starts there. I didn't know. I mean, I knew about Space Cadet Pinball, which is like the best pinball machine game ever made. And a Fisher-Price game that was in my cousin's basement. but that was pinball and basketball and skee-ball. Triple action all in one. But it is learning to love the thing that you do. Because oftentimes it's not glamorous. A lot of times it's just like banging your head against the thing. So if you don't have something to fall back on that you love, you're not going to enjoy anything. And then you're always going to think that the grass is greener on the other side. So yeah, to my younger self, I would say Play more pinball and learn to love. You know, whatever that thing it is, find it, love it, then make it your job. Yeah. Find the joy.
    38:33
    I would probably tell my younger self that you have to fight through the imposter syndrome. You have to fight through this feeling. How, though? I know. It's hard. It's super hard. but you just have to fight through the imposter syndrome. You have to be comfortable being the only person that looks like you in a room because that might happen.
    38:57
    And, yeah, I mean, I definitely think that, you know, there was – I knew somebody when I was younger, and they were, like, super into cars. And I was like, well, you should, you know, you should be a mechanic or you should, you know – we lived near Michigan. Like, you could design cars. I'm like, well, I don't want to not love it anymore because I don't want it to be my job. Yeah. And, you know, again, my job is hard. It's I'm not going to say that every single day is just like sunshine and roses. It's still a job. But I am better at it because I love it and I care so much about it, you know. And so, and that will get you through, you know, I would so much rather have a much more fulfilling and hard job than just mindlessly doing something that I don't care anything about.
    39:50
    And I fight with imposter syndrome every single day, you know, and so, and how do I do it? I just, I just remind myself that I'm good at my work. And if I'm not good at it, I can learn. and I'm capable of learning and I'm, I'm surrounded by people that have been doing this a lot longer than me and I can learn from the people around me and have respect for the people that have come before me. Um, you know, how you guide the people that are newer that may not know things, you know, that the, the, the worst thing that happens when you come into a new job, you know, so many of us, like, I think it's a pretty common occurrence where you feel like, oh, God, I can't believe I asked that question. I'm so stupid. Oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed.
    40:36
    I definitely try and make a new person feel welcome, make them, you know, don't make them feel silly if they ask a question, and, you know, encourage learning. You know, when you make a mistake, you learn something new. and yeah and just always every single day is I'm gonna do something new today or I'm gonna learn something new I'm gonna solve a problem I'm gonna and then I can go in the break room and shoot the shit about pinball for a little while if it were the 70s you'd be able to smoke a cigarette too but that's over I'm so glad you brought up imposter syndrome because I don't know if that's a trait that you feel like you're the only one that feels that yeah and i feel like women feel that more and maybe it's just like everybody's telling us that we don't know what the fuck we're doing all the time yeah and then we start believing it uh no but i mean it is a like what's helped me with imposter syndrome and i i suffer greatly from it um so uh it's that you have to trust the people that placed you there because you know i don't really trust myself but i i'm like i look around me and I'm like I trust those people right and if they think I can do it then you know sure I can do it right absolutely so for sure uh I feel if it's like advice for myself I feel like I'd go back and tell myself to calm down because I'm like doing what I'm supposed to be doing it's happening you know and I didn't you know I followed my joy and focused on the thing that made me happy and it worked out um and if it for other people I agree with Elizabeth like follow your heart you and do the thing that makes you happy But also like if you don see people that look like you doing the thing you want to do say you know why aren there women designers that work here Why aren't there black people in product development that work here? You know, why aren't there other queer people that work here? Not that there's not other queer people. Let's start. But say, you know what I mean? Continue to ask the question. I've got to say. Yeah. You put the pressure and you continue to ask the question and you continue to kind of push the boundary of getting more people and getting more representation because the more diverse voices that are creating the things that we love means that there's a pinball machine for everybody. You know, I'm not going to say that every single game that comes out is my favorite game, but there's certainly, you know, I've had super long, like 45 minute, like diatribe conversations arguing with somebody about why I love something and they hate it. oh my god i love this game i hate this game but i love it for this no i hate it for this and like that kind of passion just is something that should be fostered and and and pushed and boundaries should be you know we should continue to ask the questions and just like with each game there's new innovations there's there's new movements you know you look at how games have progressed you look at at just what we're seeing uh in different manufacturers i mean obviously i work at Stern but I love that there's other game manufacturers that are building games as the first thing I want to do is look at like what are they doing oh I want to I want to look at it I want to see what what they're doing that I don't that we didn't think of you know I think that that actually creates better games and more innovation and just more of the things that I love the reason we have this panel is because we asked that question. Why don't we have a women's seminar? I mean, I was kind of joking when I said it, like, why aren't there any? And it's like, oops, now we have a seminar. So here we are. So that's a great, really great point, Cheryl. Well, but actually, honestly, I mean, that's a good point in the fact that if you are not seeing what you want, you have to have the people, the trailblazers that are willing to do it. So like if you're in a community and you're not seeing, you don't have a women's league, you have to start one. If you're not seeing the kind of community that you're looking for, you have to do the work to, to, to make it or to foster that. Um, and it's the same with working in pinball. It's a, if you, if you're not seeing what you're looking for, then continue to ask the questions and continue to try and be like, well, I guess, I mean, I guess I'm going to have to do it then you know and and it's because of people that are that are making those choices and are taking on that that work that that things continue to to change anyone else oh yeah tell the younger anybody or just tell the younger anybody or adult adult anybody like you should always be doing the thing you want to do right like i if if you're 60 years old and doing something that you hate doing, you are screwing up right now. Stop what you're doing. Quit your job. Do something that you like. You're only alive for a very short amount of time. It's way better to be poor and happy than less poor and miserable.
    45:44
    And chances are if you're doing the thing that makes you happy, you're going to love doing it, and you're going to do such a fantastic job with it, you're not going to be poor.
    45:53
    Yeah. And just building on that, like, work hard, learn, keep on learning, never think that you've learned enough. There's always more to learn. Meet people and, you know, grow with that. And practice critical thinking skills and problem solving because that gets you forward in life and be humble. I got that.
    46:23
    so we only have a couple more minutes left so i want to uh is can we allow the audience to ask questions is that a thing kristen we do what we want okay right we're gonna have you guys ask questions now so let's hear them um you got this hello uh who has the most amount of experience in the industry so far doing what melissa i mean melissa's being alive sorry i i was here but i forgot um my main question is how have you seen women being treated or like changed within the last 10 years 20 years however long you've been in the industry and has it been like positive About 20 years. And yes, I was going to make that point earlier. It really helps now that the men that are in pinball are more welcoming to the women that are coming into it. I know my husband personally takes time at our pin bar to show women different shots. He'll take them on a tour to show them all the different games, the old EMs and some of the other stuff. And so in general, I just think the whole industry, and I thank these shows because I think it's brought us all together, and women are more accepted into the business now. And I'll say at a pinball show, maybe eight years ago, I was working on a machine. Something was broken. Playfield was up. I'm doing some stuff, and some dude came over and said, you know, stop looking at that. The professionals are here. I said, MF-er, I am the professionals. Yeah. And I don't have to say that anymore. So, I mean, so I think it's come a very long way. And just people not doubting us. I think just that alone, just coming in, coming into the arcade and seeing me working on somebody, even if it's somebody who has no idea who I am, what I'm doing, they don't question it, right? Like, here's this girl and her face is covered in shit. and she's soldering a bunch of things, good. I mean, there's not like, oh, my God, I can't believe that you can do that. You need Hal. Yeah.
    48:50
    I have one for Rebecca. In your job, I can picture that a great achievement for you is when you get to be the one who notices a pattern that you're shipping way too many of a particular part, and that means that there was a design flaw. Have you had that victory? And the rest of you are thinking, is there something equivalent in your job where you can be the hero? Absolutely. I mean, it's not necessarily a daily occurrence, but 100%. I mean, I work very closely with the tech support team. They teach me things all the time about the games.
    49:27
    Obviously, there's a constant, you know, from the beginning of when the game rolls off the line, there are patterns that are recognized. you know, issues with a certain game, if there's something going on, or if somebody calls and is like, hey, this thing is happening that's not supposed to happen. And those are the little victories that really feel great when you can identify a problem like that. I have experienced that many times. And, yeah, it does feel really good. It does feel good. It does feel like a little victory to, you know, oh, that's the wrong connector, and we forgot to change the ACN, so we've got to fix that and get it fixed and get it shipped.
    50:14
    And then ship out all the repair kits to the dealers and say, send these out to us. Yes, yes, that's what happens. But, you know, I mean, I actually, I got a call from somebody and they were, you know, complaining about like, oh, you know, I just bought this LE and it's, you know, the code is only like 8 point, you know, 0.8 something. And I, you know, I'm like beta testing for you. And I, you know, I was like, well, isn't it awesome that we can listen to the community and we can make adjustments to a game and we can fix bugs and we can, you know, constantly improve and create this system where we're creating achievements to make your game constantly a challenge instead of it being locked in a specific time and a place forever. and you just walk up to a 90s game that you know doesn't have a wizard mode and you're like, well, I'll just never get that ever again. And so it's just a different perspective of thinking about how pinball has changed.
    51:17
    That's a good point on the code releasing a little bit uncooked. But I think that is a special thing that I personally love as well. My greatest heroic event is when someone on pin side says, wouldn't it be cool if this? And I was like, yes, it would. And I can make that happen. Do that for you. Night swim is dark, baby.
    51:41
    Let's do it. I can be that person. It's so great. And, you know, and I get emails coming in of like, I got this weird bug or whatever. And I'm like, this game came out three years ago and no one else has had that happen. And it's three o'clock in the morning and I'm going to look into it for you, you know? And I'm like, wow, you know what? That was a bug and I'm going to fix this. and being able to make little differences make a big impact in people. And that's so cool. And I would never have that experience anywhere else. So thank you for putting up with our slow updates, but I'm really glad they're there.
    52:16
    Yeah. I mean, both of you have demonstrated in those examples of how it really is about the one person and working with the one person and solving the one person's problem. that brings a lot of joy and success. And even if it turns into a great pattern and it's like, yeah, look at this giant problem, it's like helping the one guy or gal that needs the help at that moment. It's like you've transformed the experience for them and for yourself because it's like, yeah, right on, man. High five to the two of us for finding this. So can we have more questions? Is that allowed? Oh, we're pretty much at the top. We could do one more. Oh, come up after. These ladies are awesome, okay? Hi all, nice to see you again. I was wondering how some of you or if any of you have ways to deal with burnout because as you all mentioned, like this is our job, this is what we do every single day. And if there's something that helps you kind of step back or step away to help you with that burnout feeling if you experience it. a shot of vodka in my soda um i i try you know i try and set boundaries for myself um you know kind of similar to what a moto was talking about earlier you you're going to come in and you're going to have 45 different problems and you're like it can be extremely overwhelming to be like how am I gonna do this but it's like it's like when you're when you're moving and you have all your stuff in boxes and your new new place and you're just around surrounded by boxes you just focus on one little corner you do that little corner and then the second you're looking at these overwhelming things you're like but I just I did that corner I was able to do that I can I can do one thing I can do two things and yeah play pinball that's that's absolutely thing You know, it's for sure, you know, the lore at Stern, which is real, is we are encouraged to play at least 15 minutes of pinball every day. We have, you know, 50 plus games in our lobby. And it is very common for many people from all from purchasing, from sales, from PD, from, you know, accounting. They'll come playing pinball. you know they'll take a step and they'll say you know what I'm just gonna I'm gonna remind myself that this hard thing is worth it because this is fun and I like doing this and I care about this and I want it to continue to grow and so take a breath don't drink vodka in your coffee at work but maybe when you get home you know uh when I feel burnt out I start telling people no and you could do that too. All right.
    55:16
    That's very important. Yeah. Yeah, don't forget. Don't forget. I would just say that, like, I could be cleaning porta-potties or cutting up chicken parts. Like, this is really the best shit in the world. Like, we are so lucky to be in this industry doing fun things every day. Like, I think just, like, stepping back and putting that into perspective, Like what we get to do and, you know, just where we are. So call these people. The industry has burnout. So I'd rather burn out and doing something I love than like, again, burning out because I'm like entering spreadsheets for some crap I don't care about. My back hurts from mopping up all this diarrhea. Like this is just so much better than any of that. Like we are so fortunate. So do what you love, man. On that note.
    56:06
    I hope you'll help me thank these, first of all, really smart, kick-ass women. Thank you. It's my honor to be here with you.