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The Pinball Show Ep 114: I’m Confused, But Is It Really The Drugs?

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 48m·analyzed·Oct 10, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Stern's James Bond reveal bungled with demo code and poor footage; new 'Yam Cam' term coined.

Summary

Zach Minney, recovering from back surgery and heavily medicated, hosts The Pinball Show episode 114 with co-host Dennis Creasel. The episode focuses heavily on Stern's chaotic James Bond 60th Anniversary rollout, including poor-quality leaked gameplay footage, confusion around production scheduling, and licensing complications. Secondary topics include American Pinball production changes, new pinball terminology ('Yam Cam'), game acquisitions, and market pricing trends.

Key Claims

  • James Bond code shown in leaked gameplay videos appears to be in early demo state with simplified multiball mechanics and minimal audio/callouts, likely held back by licensing approval requirements

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis analyze the early code state shown in leaked videos and speculate about licensing delays preventing full code release

  • Stern's official James Bond livestream reveal is scheduled for October 18th at 6pm Eastern on Deadflip streaming channel with George Gomez and design team

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's Top Stories segment confirms the scheduled livestream announcement

  • First-run James Bond Pro editions will go to both operators AND homeowners in November 2022 release, not just operators as in previous two years

    high confidence · Zach corrects his prior episode reporting after being contacted by Stern; George Gomez confirmed on social media that homeowners will get access in first run

  • Chicago Gaming Company's next game is rumored to be Pulp Fiction, already in production and potentially debuting at Pinball Expo in Chicago

    medium confidence · Dennis Creasel revealed this rumor in Rumor Corner segment on another podcast; unconfirmed by manufacturer

  • Christopher Franchi initially rumored as artist for CGC Pulp Fiction but has refuted this claim on his Super Awesome Pinball Show podcast

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's segment reports Franchi's denial of involvement with Pulp Fiction artwork

  • Stern's James Bond marketing rollout appears to be hampered by external licensing complications rather than internal Stern failures

    medium confidence · Zach and Dennis speculate based on historical Stern release performance that licensor constraints are causing the chaotic reveal strategy

  • Elwin's 60th Anniversary James Bond game is expected to have very strong secondary market performance due to limited production (500 units) and Elwin's design track record

    medium confidence · Dennis predicts high resale values; Zach suggests minimum $25,000+ prices based on rules depth comparable to Godzilla

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm so juiced up on painkillers and muscle relaxers. I really don't know where you are anymore.”

    Zach Minney @ opening — Sets the comedic/serious tone of the episode while establishing Zach's post-surgery medical condition

  • “Yam Cam. You got a fucking Yam Cam out here filming this game. Figure it out.”

    Zach Minney @ mid-episode — Introduction of new pinball community terminology for unprofessional, low-quality video footage of pinball reveals

  • “It looked like a vertical slice demo that video games will do where they'll take a bunch of pieces of a game, and it wouldn't be what you'd actually encounter in the game.”

    Zach Minney @ James Bond segment — Describes the early demo nature of James Bond code shown in leaked gameplay footage

  • “I almost believe, Dennis, that they have much more code already done, But that is, in fact, waiting for license approval.”

    Zach Minney @ James Bond analysis — Speculation that licensing constraints are preventing Stern from showing finished code, supporting external complication theory

  • “I think people justify value in a game on rules more so than even toys and mechs at times.”

    Dennis Creasel @ market analysis — Reflects contemporary pinball market prioritization of code/rules over mechanical features

  • “I don't understand why we're waiting until the 18th for their official live stream when this is out for people to get to experience live somewhere. You know, none of it makes any sense to me, Zach.”

    Dennis Creasel @ James Bond critique — Expresses frustration with Stern's marketing strategy and delayed reveal approach

  • “It's got to be a license. I don't even want to talk about it anymore because it's kind of boring at this point.”

    Dennis Creasel @ James Bond fatigue — Shows community exhaustion with ongoing James Bond rollout issues

  • “I think you still probably get at least 1,500 out of it, right? I was thinking at least 1,000.”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyJames Bond 60th AnniversarygameElwin's 60th Anniversary James BondgameGeorge GomezpersonElwinpersonChristopher Franchi (Franie)personChicago Gaming Company (CGC)company

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: James Bond Pro edition production expanded to include both operators AND homeowners in November 2022 first run, not just operators as in prior two years; potential for additional production runs between November and April

    high · Zach corrects prior reporting after Stern contacted him; George Gomez confirmed on social media; Zach reports being instructed to run production details by Stern before public announcement

  • ?

    event_signal: New pinball industry terminology introduced: 'Yam Cam' — term for unprofessional, low-quality cellphone video footage of pinball reveals (poor sound, Nokia-era quality, over-the-shoulder angles). Zach proposes as official new dictionary entry.

    high · Zach/Dennis coin and celebrate the term as officially introducing it to 'pinball zeitgeist'; multiple references to 'Yam Cam' throughout James Bond segment analysis

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community exhaustion with James Bond rollout narrative; Dennis explicitly states 'I'm really getting tired of it' and wants to move away from Bond coverage despite its dominance in pinball news

    high · Dennis repeatedly expresses fatigue; both hosts acknowledge Bond has consumed multiple episodes of coverage; listener fatigue implied

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Contemporary pinball market increasingly valuing rules depth and code quality over artwork, mechanical features, and toy implementation; players justify premium pricing based on rules complexity rather than aesthetics or mechs

    medium · Zach/Dennis discuss how rules depth now drives resale value projections; example given of Godzilla-like rules depth commanding $25,000+ secondary market prices regardless of artwork quality

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.325

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:12
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week Dennis and I talk more about James Bond developments. We talk 60th anniversary Elwynn Bond, being juiced up on meds during this podcast, stern production updates, trademarking a new pinball term, Franchi showing his cards, diet TNA, pinball media trends, a new segment, more changes to American Pinball's model offerings, pinball market trends, and dare I say, steals of the week. Strap on to that bobbly missile because this rocket is set to launch. Ha!
0:55
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show.
1:14
It's pinball with personality. It's that time, everybody, for your favorite pinball podcast, The Pinball Show. I'm Zach Minney, alongside my co-host, Dennis Creasel. Dennis, we're in episode 114. You feeling frisky? I'm ready to go, but I'm amazed that you didn't cancel this recording. I think I'm recording a podcast right now. I'm so juiced up on painkillers and muscle relaxers. I really don't know where you are anymore. Dennis, I didn't record last week. For those of you interested, you need to go listen to the EGP. You guys had another good podcast episode last week, you and Tony over at Eclectic Gamers Podcast. I feel like I've been missing out on stuff. You were even updating me on some of the notes. You're like, well, what about this? You forgot this. Yeah, it's all blur. Well, you are very, very high. I did want to reach out and say thank you to all of the listeners who put in good thoughts and prayers for me undergoing a surgical procedure on my back this last week. I am, what, three or four days, I think, post. I am fucking in pain. But I'm hoping that over the next month or multiple months, I'm hoping that nerve calms down a little bit and relieves some of that pain. But I've had a couple of really good days where I was actually able to play pinball without sitting down. How about that? Yeah, I did not know you were to that point that you were one of those stool players. I do not like showing weakness. No, I don't blame you. That's what these people feed on. Yeah, I don't like sitting on stools. But at night, yeah, when I'm down there playing, I couldn't, prior to surgery, I couldn't maintain a standing position longer than 45 seconds or so. So I had to sit down and I had to play my pinball. Oh, dude, I've got a couple new games in. Really? Yes. Have you opened your Fathom yet? Still haven't opened Fathom. I want to do a straight-in-the-middle unboxing on that. So still waiting for number 14 to be unopened. But I did find and run across a really nice Radical. Oh, you've been looking for that, it feels like, since we started the show. So I got it, and the playfield's super nice. It has Mylar, which sucks, because I don't think there's a way of taking off that Mylar listener. to clear coat the play field without pulling some paint up. So I'm mixed on that. I still want to repro play field, but CPR is not going to make them until they get a copy. So I got a Radical, and it shoots like a dream. You ever pick up a game where it's, you know, it's broken, and it's a System 11 or something where it just shoots so damn well. And I know after, if we do restore the game, it will not shoot like that. I'm really excited about the Radical that I just got in. I keep going and playing it because System 11 is a quick game, so you can go and play and play and play. And I also purchased a Wizard of Oz. It should be here within a week or so, a Yellow Brick Road Edition. That one doesn't even have a monkey mech. Yeah, and I probably won't play it much, but it looked nice. Then why did you buy it?

  • Pinball market values rules depth and code quality more than toys/mechanical features when justifying game pricing and purchase decisions

    medium confidence · Zach and Dennis discuss how contemporary collector/competitive players prioritize rules design over artwork and mechanics

  • Zach recently underwent back surgery (discectomy) and is recording this episode 3-4 days post-surgery while heavily medicated on painkillers and muscle relaxers

    high confidence · Zach explains his medical condition at episode opening and throughout conversation

  • Prior to surgery, Zach could only stand while playing pinball for approximately 45 seconds before needing to sit down

    high confidence · Zach discusses his limited mobility pre-surgery and improvement post-procedure

    • Dennis / Zach @ secondary market discussion — Discusses used EM pinball pricing in softening market conditions

  • “Craig Bobby, if he was an ice cream shake, he would definitely be... Butterscotch.”

    Dennis Creasel @ sidebar humor — Comedic character assessment unrelated to pinball business

  • “I don't like sitting on stools. But at night, yeah, when I'm down there playing, I couldn't, prior to surgery, I couldn't maintain a standing position longer than 45 seconds or so.”

    Zach Minney @ opening — Context for Zach's health challenges and recovery motivation

    • Pulp Fiction
    game
    Zach Minneyperson
    Dennis Creaselperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Deadfliporganization
    Pinball Expoevent
    British Film Institute's James Bond 60th Anniversary Celebrationevent
    Christie's 60th Anniversary Charity Auctionevent
    Pinball Newsmedia
    IAPA UK showevent
    Eclectic Gamers Podcast (EGP)media
    Radicalgame
    Wizard of Oz (Yellow Brick Road Edition)game

    licensing_signal: External licensing approval likely constraining James Bond code release and feature availability; stripped-down early build (minimal music, no clips, basic callouts) may be what licensor approved for circulation

    high · Zach/Dennis repeatedly speculate licensing as cause; Zach theorizes full code exists but awaits approval; early audio/visual minimalism consistent with provisional license agreement

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball market softening on used EM game pricing; Firepower EM game valued at $1,000-$1,500 despite good playfield condition, suggesting broader market price compression

    medium · Zach/Dennis discuss secondary market valuations for classic EM games; Dennis notes market softening similar to frozen yogurt market conditions

  • $

    market_signal: Stern's James Bond reveal strategy fundamentally misaligned: demo code shown at high-visibility UK events lacks music, callouts, and gameplay depth; poor-quality Yam Cam footage circulates ahead of official October 18th livestream

    high · Craig Bobby segment documents multiple public appearances with early-state code; Zach/Dennis analyze leaked gameplay as 'vertical slice demo' with 'baby's first multiball' and constant tinkling with minimal audio

  • ?

    community_signal: Zach Minney hosting Pinball Show episode while recovering from back surgery (discectomy), heavily medicated on painkillers and muscle relaxers 3-4 days post-op; demonstrates commitment to content production despite significant health challenges

    high · Zach explicitly states medication condition at opening; Dennis acknowledges surprise episode wasn't cancelled; listeners thanked for support during surgery recovery

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Christopher Franchi publicly denies involvement with CGC Pulp Fiction despite community rumors; clarifies on Super Awesome Pinball Show podcast

    high · Craig Bobby reports Franchi's refutation of artist involvement claims

  • $

    market_signal: James Bond and other Stern titles experiencing price increases in 2022-2023; Elwynn's studio release 60th Anniversary James Bond expected to price higher than cornerstone premium editions; Elvira 40th pricing not yet announced

    high · Zach reports angry customers about price increases across Stern lineup; discusses studio release vs cornerstone pricing tiers; acknowledges inflation impact on MSRP

  • ?

    announcement: Stern's official James Bond livestream reveal scheduled October 18th at 6pm Eastern on Deadflip with George Gomez and design team; high-definition official gameplay demonstration planned after weeks of leaked footage criticism

    high · Craig Bobby confirms Stern announcement of livestream event

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Chicago Gaming Company's next game is Pulp Fiction, already in production and potentially debuting at Chicago Pinball Expo in October 2022

    medium · Dennis Creasel revealed during Rumor Corner segment on another podcast; unconfirmed by CGC; Franchi denial suggests independent verification

    • 4:34
    Dennis, I have a problem. Yes, and I was willing to explore that with you. You seem resistant. I was hoping that your surgeons would transplant some self-control while they were in there.
    4:46
    That surgeon didn't give two shits about me. You were boring. You're like, you're not a brain problem. He likes to work on brains. He did. He was a big brain guy. He seemed bummed out when I met him about a routine discectomy. He was like, yeah, we can do that. He's like, you sure there's nothing wrong like an aneurysm or something in your brain? because I really get my jellies off on fixing ventricles and shit.
    5:14
    So I get a couple new games. That's been keeping me in good spirits. But truly thank you again to everybody that reached out because that meant the world to me. I get a lot of support. Even after the last episode, Dennis, I had a lot of people reach out about – I had some serious stuff I was talking about during Pinball Market Trends. And sorry to spring that on you. You weren't even there to digest that. but I wanted to do that. I had to go listen to Chiefs. Yeah, that's right. So thank you all for reaching out and hopefully more positivity moving forward in the industry and community of pinball. What have you been up to, Dennis? Oh, not a whole lot. Just been obviously football season, so I like to watch a lot of that. And did that podcast, EGP, last week. Oh, I was on the TPN network with Joel's stream earlier this last week. Yeah, we'll talk about that later. You really cleaned up on the game you guys played. Well, I had a couple bad rounds, but. You still beat them. But against a bunch of scrubs, what did it matter? I mean, come on. No recent tournaments? Nub's Pub? No. 504 West? I feel bad. No, I went to Nub's Pub. Tony, my co-host on my other podcast, and I went. He had the week off, so we took one day. He was like, hey, you want to get lunch and play some pinball? I was like, yeah, I'll head over there. Certainly. So we went and we played Rush and Godzilla Pro and Kiss and Stranger Things, your favorite. Oh.
    6:40
    Yeah, he won every Stranger Things game. I still don't. I'm still not comfortable with those shots, even though I should be. It's a clunkier fan. Our best game was on Kiss, easily. Oh. Did you lick it up? Yes. We were doing the tongue thing every time we'd lock a demon in both of us. I hope these other people are there playing and they're like getting further away from us because we're being really obnoxious about it. And yeah, we both set high enough scores that we earned replays on our first game on it. Just because it's like, all right, doing this and that. And afterwards, Tony was like, this is so much better than insert other band pin game here. Did you ever get Sinbad into the game room? No, I still haven't listed Firepower yet.
    7:29
    Firepower. Someone buy my firepower. How much? What do you want in it? I don't know. What's a fair price? Condition, condition, condition. I have to see. Condition's pretty worn. It's basically got full play field mylar. It came with that. But it's a player's game. And the front of the cabinet, unfortunately, was repainted solid black at some point. So it does not have the stenciling like the sides do. I think you still probably get at least 1,500 out of it, right? I was thinking at least 1,000. Oh, yeah. Current prices. Yeah. If you had a working EM, you can get a thousand out of it. The market is softening though. It is. It's like fro-yo. Like fro-yo? Are you a fro-yo eater? No. I don't either. I like ice cream. I do too. But your favorite is like pistachio, which is weird. I like pistachio, but strawberry is my favorite. With or without the chunks of strawberry. You have to just puree it and put it in. I know, but I hate that. Why can't they just find a way to mix that up? You're like a jelly person, not a jam person. I'm a jam person, not a jelly person. Well, then why don't you like the jam of ice cream? Because the jams that I get are pureed enough to where you're not, like when you go to McDonald's and you get the strawberry thing and the shake and then you're slipping and all of a sudden you get a clog in your artery there and then you get a chunk of strawberry. No, I don't like that. That's a myth. The ice cream machine at McDonald's is never working. That's true. That is so true. But Craig Bobby, if he was an ice cream shake, he would definitely be... Butterscotch. Nailed it.
    9:12
    Hello and welcome to the Pinball Show's Top Stories. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, as the dust settles on the pinball landscape this week, the world's largest pinball manufacturer, Stern Pinball, takes the lead in the twippy race for the worst pinball reveal by a manufacturer with their continued multi-week bungling of their newest super spy pin, James Bond. Yes, even edging out the abysmal spinal tap because, hey, it's home pin and what did you expect? Sadly, Stern can't seem to get the derailed James Bond train back on the tracks as Stern made appearances this past week with two Bond games in hand at the recent British Film Institute's James Bond 60th Anniversary Celebration as well as the 60th Anniversary Charity Auction at Christie's in London, England. And no, calm down, calm down. Stern didn't show up with their Elwynn Design 60th Anniversary Retro Design Machine. I mean, why would you want to show up at not one but two events celebrating the character's 60th anniversary with your uber-cool 60th anniversary James Bond pinball machine designed by the best and hottest designer in the pinball industry today? I mean, that would be just crazy. So, okay, okay, you go to two high-visibility galas with not a bad second choice. I mean, George Gomez is no slouch here, everyone, and those machines do look pretty cool. So you go with your best-selling pro and premium editions with the Sean Connery Bonds splashed all over them to put on a show that the fine men and women of the UK who clearly appreciate James Bond and who have only been dreaming about the possibilities of a James Bond pinball machine. Why not let them have the first look at your beautiful works of art and watch the sales dollars roll in behind them? So let them go and have some fun. Like, what could go wrong? Uhhhh, how about more low-res, grainy and horribly reflected cellphone footage from the event showing the game's code in a very early state, complete with no music except bong-grong-grong-gong-gong-gong-gong-gong-gong-gong-gong-gong-gong-gong played over and over and over again with very few if any callouts and a few movie clips mixed with homegrown animations, making these effectively prototype games. Say whaaaaat? Even the production information through distributors has been cocked up with this release, as most distributors were saying, no pros for you, eager homeowners, until the spring of 2023, with operators getting the first production run of the Bond Pro Edition games this November, like they've done for the last ten or more releases, only to have Stern come back saying, not so fast, silly distributors, that's not accurate, we haven't yet determined who will get what and when. You know what I'm saying? But have no fear, true believers, have no fear. Stern just announced this past week that at long last, you can watch the first official Stern James Bond livestream with George Gomez and his design team on the Deadflip streaming channel Tuesday, October the 18th at 6pm Eastern, where they will show the now world-traveled James Bond pinball machine in action in all its high-def and well-explained gameplay glory. But, you guessed it, we shall have to wait and see. And in case you didn't catch it, courtesy of our beloved co-host Dennis Creasel, who is also the co-host of the Eclectic Gamers podcast, revealed recently several new rumors about Chicago Gaming Company's next upcoming game. During the Rumor Corner segment, Dennis stated that not only is Pulp Fiction CGC's next rumored game, but it's already rumored to be on the production line at the company. The game is so far along that it may go on sale before the end of 22, and it may even make its public debut at this month's Pinball Expo in Chicago. Say what? Now, another rumor floating around the interwebs is that the artist for this rumored Pulp Fiction machine is Christopher Franchi, although Franchi has now refuted that rumor on his latest Super Awesome Pinball podcast, stating that he is not, in fact, doing the art for this title. Hmm. Well, that's all for this week. And for our Canadian listeners, happy Thanksgiving for the Pinball Show. I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    13:33
    I guess we can talk about Stern Pinball and James Bond if you want to. Oh, my God. Honestly, I'm really getting tired of it. Well, look, Dennis, it's either talking about Bond or you want to talk about these metal flippers. Because we can go one way or the other. No. All right, Bond. Oh, my God. No.
    13:50
    absolutely not do you think joel knows like come on joel we're done talking about him just i i i and people you know they can like they can like what they want i'm glad that joel is enthused he's so enthused about pinball and i'm sure these flippers make a lot of people really enthused but every time i am on he brings them and i don't think i'm on that much he brings them up and it's like it makes me feel like i'm watching someone put together a tricycle you know tricycle for their child.
    14:24
    But it works because I'm going to have to try them. Oh, my gosh. He's worn you down. Yes, he has worn me down. Let's talk about a little James Bond. Now, we still haven't seen an official reveal stream. That is coming October 18th from Stern Pinball. So you're going to see that here in a little under two weeks. We got that coming. But, man, oh, man, this continues to be a very interesting rollout for this new product. considering the depths of what you've talked about on EGP, and you said it perfectly. You went through the whole timeline. Thank you for that. And then this last, what was it, last week, maybe a week ago, we did get some gameplay video, additional gameplay video, in the vertical orientation on YouTube from Pinball News, I believe.
    15:09
    Yes, that's where I saw it. So we did get some of that. What was confusing to me, listener, and to Dennis, is that the code did not look like it was fleshed out yet.
    15:22
    It looked a little... Like a demo. It looked demo-ish. I mean, and you may recall, I think you've seen more footage of it than me, but it was like they had ultra-baby-fied the multiball. Like you'd shoot the... Yeah, you start one ball and it starts the bird one multiball. And it reminded me of, I think, the analogy Tony and I had used on our podcast was it was like a vertical slice demo that video games will do where they'll take a bunch of pieces of a game, and it wouldn't be what you'd actually encounter in the game. It wouldn't flow that same way. It's to kind of give you a taste of everything that's meant to happen mechanically. That's what it kind of felt like to have Baby's First Multiball. Yeah, and we do that with sizzle reel production as well. Oh, yeah. Good point. So you can see all of that, but you don't want to play it like that.
    16:12
    I'm at a loss here. I still don't understand. It's got to be a license. I don't even want to talk about it anymore because it's kind of boring at this point. But, yeah, watching that gameplay video, I'm like, I can see if they were at that event wanting to set it up a little bit easier. Or was this the only option because that's all that the code was, knowing that it was going to be filmed? Yeah, but I mean the basically instant multiball, the just incessant droning of the 007 theme, the constant tinkling of the diamonds. I was good with the diamond tinkles. Yeah, different people – sound people get irked. I mean it still – to me it reminded me of when Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle was first getting streamed and all you heard was the tinkling glass with the slings. Oh, you loved that. Is that going to get grading or not? Did they have the metal flippers installed on this? Because they might have. I don't know. It was a lot of multiball heavy in this showing of it. I don't know if it's going to be like that just because, like you said, one ball locked and you started a multiball. You know, what was interesting to me is I think Pinball News had a prior clip which got taken down, and then they got this one. Well, the prior one was terrible. Like, it was mostly just focused on the display on the screen. You could only maybe kind of make out the back third of the game.
    17:33
    And I believe they stressed in this latest one that Stern gave them permission for this. And I was like, why? Really? It doesn't make sense. It's not a good impression. It's just not.
    17:45
    I'm not understanding any of this. They've been teasing on social media. Stern Pinball's been teasing some of the animated sequences, whether it's a match sequence or in-game sequence. So they're teasing it. So what is preventing them from showing this thing off to its fullest capacity? I know the speculation. I had someone message me this morning that they think it's all licensor stuff. But it's just – it feels like there's a carton. They're very pricey now, of course, because of inflation, as people like to point out. But a carton of eggs. And it feels like all the eggs are on all the faces right now. There's this egg face. I think I have egg on my face, and I didn't have anything to do with this. I haven't even touched it yet. You know, collateral damage. I just hate video that gets out that does not represent a product to its fullest abilities. I just fucking hate it. I don't understand why we're waiting until the 18th for their official live stream when this is out for people to get to experience live somewhere. You know, none of it makes any sense to me, Zach. I feel like the entire marketing strategy for Bond was like outsourced to a new company, and this is their first go, and it's just all sloppy, real sloppy. Out of this, though, listener, came a new pinball term that we now get to use moving forward. A lot of times, Dennis, people say, what do you have, a freaking cell phone camera you're shooting video on? It's like a freaking potato cam, right? You've heard that phrase? Yes, yeah, long, long-standing phrase. Here on episode 114 of the Pinball Show, we are now initiating a new official pinball term into the zeitgeist. Put that in the dictionary, Steve Bowden. This might be new entry term of the year. If there was an award for it, moving forward, anytime the first looks that you get on a brand-new product, whether it's a pinball machine or whatnot, an unprofessional, over-the-shoulder, shit sound, a Nokia 9510 shooting it. We're now calling that Yam Cam. Oh, that's catchy. Yam Cam. You got a fucking Yam Cam out here filming this game. Figure it out. Yam Cam. What else would we say? I will say it looks like a good shooter. Yeah, I agree. It looks like a George Gomez game, almost as if Deadpool snuck one in on the backside of Batman when he wasn't looking. That's what it looks like to me. Screw you, Robin. I did worry about that third flipper shot to the ramp, and I can say that that looked pretty smooth. I was wrong there. I did see it dribble out the other side one time or two, but I was kind of wrong there. watching the yam cam coverage of this i did wonder if this is a code thing but when they hit the orbit in between the ramp the right orbit you follow me okay it didn't go all the way around the orbit it stopped in the pop several times i'm wondering if that's a george gomez coding decision because i really would like to see that ball go all the way around did you ever see it go all the way around like do you think it is a blocker or diverter i didn't it looked like a It was a controlled gate up top, and it was just coded to fall in the pop. Same way with on the upper little orbit that went up there. Oh, yes, that one. It just seemed like it stayed in the pop. So I'm like, man, I'd like to see that go all the way through. Maybe that's that one shot that you always talk about, the Gomez shot. Because otherwise, I don't know. The left scuba area where it kicks the ball back up a la Elvira is kind of weird because it doesn't seem to have an aim or a target in mind when it ejects. But the bond on a one was cool. It looked as if it grabbed the ball. It took it and almost prepared it for a multi-ball once you hit that tank target, and then it dropped it. I'm not thinking it goes to the wire form, though, as an option. So overall, the gameplay looked pretty phenomenal to me. Looks like a lot of fun to shoot. Code is early, so... And maybe this was... Maybe... I'm just going back to scheduling and production. There was rumors of Venom, and we had rumors of James Bond. We'd have rumors of all of these games. They skipped a cornerstone, which would suggest that there was a lot of time allotted for these different, what, three or four different design groups to really prepare for coding. That's why it's hard for me to believe that this is the only code in there. I almost believe, Dennis, that they have much more code already done, But that is, in fact, waiting for license approval. So until then, you get baby's first code out there in Europe to play so that people can start multipoles. You can't tell me that they don't have more code done on this. Yeah, I agree with you. I've assumed that the code state was because of licensor. And either they had to put down a stripped down, you know, not a lot of clips, only one piece of music sort of thing because they could quickly get that approved. Yeah. And so then they could have something live out there. It also helped explain why the live stream of the 18th. I'm kind of wondering, are we absolutely sure?
    23:05
    It's a good point. Or is it going to get punted? Because they punted a number of things on this. Well, the other thing is the official bond day was what, October 5th last week? Yeah. And we didn't get any reveal that Elwynn's 60th anniversary either. And that absolutely, and behind the scenes, we'd commentate about that on EGP. And then the day of the Bond reveal, I'm like, nope. I thought that it was the most obvious day to reveal Elwynn's 60th anniversary one. Sure. Other things are doing it. Tony's big into motorcycles. Triumph released their reveal of their Bond-inspired motorcycle that day, their limited run of 60 motorcycles. And it's like it's – none of it makes sense. See, that's where I get back to the decisions on the marketing side. Why did they – when they had their dealer presentation with you all, did they not cover the Elwynn game at the same time? Yeah. Okay. Maybe they're holding for Bond Day. Well, then why didn't they hold the Gomez game for Bond Day? I mean, everything else up until this point, there was no reason not to have waited until the 5th to reveal the Gomez game. I guess it was to do it at the IAPA UK show, but not all four of them. So there's just this weird placeholder on the Stern website? Sure, and every detail about this release and reveal and product launch is confusing. And that's the problem. That's the fundamental problem, is the confusion. Here they've already had kind of that leak from 007 for the 60th anniversary of L1, which went totally against some of the features that George Gomez himself was publicly explaining with mechanical reels and different things like that. So it's just, it is a very confusing time. So I'm going to hedge my bet, and I'm going to say this isn't a Stern thing, because they tell us in shrink school, the best predictor of future behaviors, past behavior, which in and of itself is problematic.
    25:01
    But if we go by that, Stern does a good job of revealing games in general. They get their shit together. This has been chaotic in so many different respects that I don't think I can put this to Stern. Something else is going on here that's nutty, I think. I agree that something, it makes the most sense that something probably external is complicating it. But at the end of the day, it's a Stern game and they're the ones that are going to be held responsible for this. Absolutely. I mean, it's just how it is. So it's unfortunate, but they're also not really doing a lot to clarify things. And I think a good case in point is a correction that we have from the last episode. That's true. I reported on episode 113 that just like the last two years' worth of Stern releases, the first-run pros come out first, but they only go to operators. They focus heavily on operators. us dealers have to fill out forms showing what operators is putting that on location where it's going on locate a lot of information because that's how many pros in the first run that we'll get out there makes sense from a sales marketing standpoint because you want to get them out there for people to play but you cannot build all of the pros in that first run you get to get to the and whatnot after having that information out there someone posted about you know april is the first time that homeowners are going to get their bond pros and george gomez posted on social media I don't think that's correct. So then I was contacted by Stern. They said, hey, Zach, you know, not really a slap on the wrist, but hey, maybe run that stuff by us before you go announcing it. Because, in fact, we are going to be able to do a large enough run that all of the first locations are going to get theirs, as well as some homeowners. So my point was, well, you didn't tell us otherwise, and we've done it this way for two straight years. So how in the hell would I know any different? So that was a correction I needed to make that in fact it going to more than just locations in this early November run of James Bond Pros And I also think that we may see some more runs squeezed in between November and April They haven't said it officially, but I don't think they go that long before running their newest game again. Well, but officially they run it again in April, yes? Correct. Or do I need to run that by them? Well, and schedules are always tentative, so they can always change, as we've seen them change drastically over the last year. But, yes, that is very much the goal. Run and buy them. Give me a break.
    27:34
    Do you need to run by the pricing also just in case they didn't send out an update? You know, just to be sure. Just to be sure. Maybe you need to run everything. Maybe run the whole script through them. We have had a lot of angry people this last couple weeks because they're like, hey, I've seen that they were increasing prices to James Bond. Does that mean they're increasing the prices on all the other games? I'm like, yeah, unfortunately. They're like, okay, but I had my order in for six months now, so I'm good, right? No. No, you're not. Those poor Elvira orders. And we still don't have a price for that. Nope. I can say that. They have told us pricing will go up from 2021, of course. Yeah, I think so. But they haven't announced what that is because people are like, well, do you think it will be the same price of the regular premiums or lower? I'm like, God, no. It's going to be higher than all of them. Yeah, it was higher originally. Yeah, it's a studio release. And people still get mixed up on that, Dennis. Right, right, right. There's Cornerstone releases with a pro-premium LE, and then there are studio releases. Your studio releases are generally a couple hundred dollars more at a premium level than a Cornerstone premium, and they don't create or produce pro-levels or pro-trim levels of a studio release. Batman 66, Elvira, Beatles, these are all studio releases. So I don't know when we're going to get the 60th. I do think that when we get L1 60th, call me crazy. I think it's going to be a dynamite seller, and I think they are going to be sold for a lot of money. Well, given they're only going to be 500, I don't see why either of those statements would be incorrect. Well, because in the past, they've struggled sometimes with releases such as this. Look at the Beatles. They struggled to sell all of those Beatles after two years. Sure, but there were more than 500 of them, and they didn't have Elwynn's name attached to them. sure elvira's 40th though that thing that thing sold well ish but over time we've seen the market kind of come down and those prices have come down as well yeah the thing with elvira though is technically the because even though there's not a pro model there is a quote-unquote unlimited quantity of the lowest tier beatles didn't have that but elvira obviously did as did batman and so i i don't think that's a good apples to apples that's true that's true i i think it's going to sell well because it is Elwin because that guy knows what the hell he's doing. He is not going to produce, based on the evidence that we have, he's not going to produce a bad game. And for those who love Elwin games, he crosses over into competitive pinball. You know, you will always get support by owning an Elwin game. It's not like you're putting yourself out there for, well, I like X person doing the designer code, even though a lot of people don't. Elwin is a surefire thing. Yeah, I see it even a single level. If it has rules depth, I don't care about the art. If it has a Godzilla-like feel to it, and it has rules depth that matches that of a contemporary machine, I don't think there's any doubt that they will be $25,000 minimum. That's a strong take. I think all it needs is the rules. But if it is more basic, then I don't think you're going to see people clamoring over it as much. Isn't it wild how everything comes down to rules now? Well, I mean, rules have always been important. They've always been important, but we're getting to the point where depth-wise, people are justifying value a lot in the rules department now. They can get around, you know, artwork, look at Bond, sometimes get around some of the design elements and choices.
    31:12
    But I think people are finding value in, and almost, is this nuts? I think people justify value in a game on rules more so than even toys and mechs at times. Yeah, I would agree. I think it comes down to the fact that the rules are what have the biggest influence over anything else, even layout, on staying power. So if you have a good rule set that works with the fun of the toys and the fun of the layout, it makes you want to keep coming back. Where I'm wondering is if in some ways I feel like we've seen – and it depends on the rules person and the company. But have some companies maybe gone too far slash is the buying audience rebelling against the depth or depth sake where it's like here we're going to put in all of this complexity? I still remember when – I think it was Pirates was coming out from JJP, and they advertised all the different like billion combo scenarios of the different modes. You'll never play the same game twice. Right, right. And it's like, I don't know if that's a selling point or not to a lot of people. Because if we take a game like Jurassic Park, it's pretty easy to understand how you move through it versus – and Deadpool's like that. Deadpool's very much like that, yeah. Versus a lot of other games, like Pirates, for example, where it just feels like there's a lot of – there's so much choice. Or like some of the band pins that don't have the most story – like Rush. I'm sorry, Ray Day, but it kind of confuses me. I'm confused by Rush, too. Led Zeppelin was sort of the same for me. Yeah, those band pins can do that. But other band pins, too. I mean, GNR with all its songs and stuff. I was like, I don't know. I still don't. I'm going to confess here. I still don't understand ACTC rules.
    32:56
    I don't. I don't even know how you get the on goal. I do better with it when the band games, well, like Kiss, for example, where if I choose the song before I plunge and I see the flashing, It lights the shots that you know you're going to work. And Star Trek's like that. But again, not everyone's me, so different people are going to have different. But you know what all those have in common? What? Lonnie Robb, maybe? Lonnie's on James Bond.
    33:22
    Yep, he is. I can't do the tongue, the Bobby tongue. Nope, can't do it. So that is your 60th anniversary non-update, update-ish. let's do predictions uh zach oh what is the first pinball show episode where we do not mention james bond wow what will it be i'm gonna guess 123 okay i was gonna guess 121 how what was your guess of the ratio of people buying james bond ellies who were also going to purchase the 60th anniversary edition by Elwin. Because you know, Dennis, that people are going to own both of those games. Yes, yes. And in fact, I was going to say, I think the people and this may be maybe I'm too high on this.
    34:11
    I'm just going to say 80% of the Bond LEL win buyers are also going to own the Gomez. Wow! That is, I don't even know if that's a possibility. Wow! I said, math says it's possible.
    34:25
    Numbers don't lie. I mean, my thinking is The 100% of the population that buys, or I'll say 95%, the population that buys Elwyn 500 has the money to buy both. So it's only a question of interest and acquisition. Could you own the same? I don't even know. I'm not a whale, but – I think a lot of people that are going to go for this are going to be the Bond hardcore fans, and that's why I said 80%. because most of the regular Elwynn fans, like let's take the competitive set, for example, they know the odds of encountering the Bond because there are only 500 of them and they're so expensive. They're not going to likely encounter that very much in tournament settings, so they're not going to have that same pressure to, oh, I got to get it. I know people who buy the Elwynn games just because they want to train on them because they know it's going to be at every location that plays competitively. Very true. So they don't have that. And it's like, no, we're not going to encounter this all the time. It's just not common enough, and it's way too expensive. So because of that, I think it's mostly going to skew towards the Bond hardcore fans, and that's where I think the people are like, well, I'm the Bond super fan, and the only way I can prove it is with my wallet, and I'm going to prove that by owning both. What do you think the percentage chance is that the 60th anniversary of Elwynn is a flop? Oh, gosh. I would only say like a 5% chance. That's about where I'm at, 5%, 10% chances of flop. I mean, we still don't have a huge sample size from Elwynn, but given the restrictive nature of the design decisions that they're running with, single level, incorporating every – and some of it's not on him. Incorporating every single Bond movie, that sounds like – I mean, they're like 25. That could be a recipe for too many chefs in the kitchen, in this case, too many Bonds in the wand or something like that. Just to say, when I saw the leaked 007 store images of the side cabinet with every movie poster on it, woof. Yeah. Woof. Woof the hell is that?
    36:33
    That's not an easy fix, but you can get new cab decals. Yeah, but I'm just saying it's like – I still don't understand the – there's an LCD screen on that mock-up. There's an LCD screen on the mock-up, period, dot. They said there's mechanical reels. now i thought i don't know what's going on somewhere indicated my game will have mechanical reels on it so that part must be a placeholder so what can we take is true on that game i don't well why give them a placeholder at all if everything was a lie it must i think the art's valid i think the art's there i think the art's already approved is why yeah possibly i'm just i'm clamoring maybe they're doing this on purpose i'm clamoring to see the 60th anniversary elwyn because I do own the other four Elwins. He is, at this point, probably the most prolific designer in the last decade, if not a top three of all time. Even with four, I don't give a shit. I'm saying it. So, yes, anytime that he has something come out, I'm very, very interested in it.
    37:36
    Well, I've heard he has a lot of layouts already done, so he might be the most prolific. Well, no, no. I mean, in terms of just the ability to push out games, the EM era obviously is going to beat him, because they were putting out games every three months. And while he's fast, I'm not sure he finalizes his quite at that speed. And Borg's been pretty prolific in his career. Absolutely, absolutely. But in terms of putting out top-rated games, I mean, last I looked at the Pennside top whatever, 100 plus, I think it's weird to call it the top 100 when it goes to like 350. But, you know, only Avengers is the only one not in the top 10 last I looked, and it was still in the top 20. I mean, that's a pretty good batting average. That is a very, very good batting average. Other things to be on the lookout for Stern Pinball, they're going to be finishing up Led Zeppelin Premiums. They were working on them last week as well as maybe some will trickle out this week. We do have that new Godzilla Premium run that's going to be coming maybe as soon as next week here, or this week, potentially. so we might see those start rolling out this week. And then Turtles, we get pros and premiums towards the end of the month of October. Then they're shifting everything over to James Bond. A lot of people are wondering if we're going to see a James Bond at the Chicago Pinball Expo. I believe we will. But there will be some there, and I'm guessing, but I'm guessing that there will be some there. It will not be as many as we've seen last year of Godzilla upon that release or subsequent shows where they have a new game, because they're not into deep production of this. But you're going to see some prototypes there to play, I believe. Will they have the YamCam code? Can I have one ball start multi-ball?
    39:24
    I was talking to a manufacturer this last week. I'm not going to say who, of course, but they were trying to convince me.
    39:32
    I have to cut all this. They were trying to convince me that if they're releasing at a show, that gameplay video and or sizzle and or featurette videos are not important.
    39:46
    If you're watching, they're like, we're going to be at the show, so people are going to be able to get their hands on it. And I said, you realize that that means you definitely need additional source material. Ideally, three days before anybody gets their hands on it so that they can have a first impression that makes more sense than hashtag Yam Cam. yeah i um this what that reminds me of actually is i i think it was jersey jack's wonka where they revealed that a show and you had all of these terrible pinball players coming up and made the game look super brutal yeah i mean it was a bad impression yeah people like see the sizzles and they're like oh this looks damn it was colorfully the flow on that and then they see yeah a proto game on the floor and they're like oh god like the flippers were weak so the shots It seemed saw, and JCP has that problem anyway. But, I mean, people were just draining after 20 seconds, and it was like, ouch. And in reality, the game wasn't that bad. No. It wasn't that brutal. So that's what's coming up at the Chicago Pinball Expo. Stern Pinball. Everybody's going to be there except for Dennis. What the hell, Dennis? I'm sorry. Last Expo was such a disappointment. I can't be wasting my money twice. Such a slap in the nuts that he's not asking for seconds. And then I had people messaging me, Zach, saying, hey, they're like fixing everything you complained about. Why won't you be there? I'm like, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I don't eat it until I know it's not poisoned. That's right. So I will wait for people to give reports back. Does the free play area have more than 40 games, two of which are working? Let me know. I'm going to be there, and hopefully I will be there. I plan on being there. I don't know what I'm going to bring up, though. I thought about doing something different for the booth this year. So if I'm not going to have Bond, you know, why not maybe bring some out of the ordinary pinball machines to our small booth? Like bring a Radical or bring like a fully restored Hep Whitewater or just, you know, maybe some different things that are kind of fun. Yeah, but they can't buy those from you. Well, they could. Maybe you could bring a just one calorie TNA or a classic limited deluxe follow, whatever they're calling all this stuff. Let's talk about all of that. But first, I want to talk about the recent episode of the Super Awesome Pinball Show by Christopher Franchi, Christian Line, and Jeff Parsons. They had the Mistress of the Dark herself, Elvira, appeared on the latest episode. They had a spooktacular episode where they interviewed Elvira and Greg Frears. Talked about a lot of things. I'm going to say straight up that the Elvira, it was cool to have her on, but that's not where the good stuff was. It was fine, whatever. That was click-baity stuff. Greg Frears, actually, that was a great discussion interview, so I encourage you all listeners, if you haven't heard it yet, go listen to Greg talk about some of the history of artwork and his work in the industry. That was a lot of fun. What I did find interesting this last week, Christopher Franchi was discussing on that podcast a recent social media post that he made. He made of, I think it was on his actual art social media, Metal Luna or something. But he had two conceptual art packages that he displayed for Batman, the one with Michael Keaton, and Superman with Christopher Reeves. And he basically said, you know, as kind of a resume, like, here's my abilities. I'm available for work if any of these manufacturers want to hire me. But he went on to refute the idea that neither were a possibility of being made. Before, he was like, no, they're not getting made. He did. He censored it dialogue-wise, which I never understand, because it's purposeful. He censored the dialogue that followed in the episode, basically hinting that there is the possibility of a future work involving one or both of those themes. Now, knowing that, we look at Batman with Michael Keaton. That's kind of a stretch. There's so many Batman games that have been out here recently. I think he was hinting at Superman. They're in talks, and Superman is probably going to be made. That's what I'm thinking.
    44:00
    Could you get down with a Superman? I know Pinball Party, it's a dream theme. Well, you saw one. Oh, the Atari? Yeah. And it had great art package. It was beautiful. That was a long time ago. Could you get behind another Superman? I think it's a good theme. Yeah, I mean, I don't have anything against the theme.
    44:21
    You know, interesting. It's probably the right nostalgia button to press to do Christopher Reeves. You've got to do it pretty soon or else that bubble's going to pass. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. I mean, because the first movie came out when I was born. I mean, it's been a while. I think it could do well. So, yeah, no, I mean, it could be neat, but it's so hard for me. I mean, artistically, yes, obviously, it's a winner theme, even if you do it based on the comics or something. But, you know, there are a lot of questions about setting it up and where you're going to base it off of. A lot of people probably don't remember the plots of the movies all that well, quite frankly. It's just, I don't know. I think it's going to happen. It's fine. Yeah, I could see it. That definitely feels like a Kapow thing. It does. If they're doing Reeves, if they're just doing like animated series or the comic with DC, they could work with Warner or whatever and get it figured out. So I think if I'm reading this situation correctly, I think Franchi showed his cards a little bit there. And I think we see a Superman in the future. Also in the episode, Christopher Franchi denied the rumor that he was doing art for a rumored Pulp Fiction pinball machine. But then again, he also said he couldn't confirm or deny that the title was being made in general. That's right. That's why Pulp Fiction is a rumor corner thing. Mm-hmm. Because rumor corner could be totally fiction. And then when Franchi does these mock-ups of these back glasses, he did so recently this last week for Prince, the artist formerly known as Prince. Oh, yes. And he essentially said, here's another piece of artwork. It's dead. I can tell you now, Prince will never be licensed into a pinball machine. It's not happening. So I'm showing you all what we tried to pitch to that IP holder. So, for a franchise, Prince is and will never happen. It'd sell pretty well if it did. Why do all the Prince stuff have colors? Raspberries and reds and purples. He likes color. He doesn't like pinball, apparently. No, I guess not. I was going to say, didn't he become a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon or something? Of course, the Mormons play, as we know. But maybe the Jehovah's Witness. I think he became a Jehovah's Witness. I'm going to have to look that up now. I don't know.
    46:39
    I figured he was just a freaking virtual pinball fan. Yep. Jehovah's Witness. Interesting. Do you think Scott Denisey is part of the Jehovah's Witness movement? I haven't thought that. I'll have to ask Scott. Hey, Scott, if you're listening, you're Jehovah's Witness? I bring that up only because we also received this last week. The new update for TNA. TNA 2.0? I'm calling it Diet TNA. Just one code update. Not 2.0 enough. So, no, it's version 1.5 that came out. Oh, I see what he did there. He's clever.
    47:18
    We know this game, Total Nuclear Annihilation, was created by Scott Denisey, but manufactured 550 plus another 250, they're planning right now, by Spooky Pinball. This code update marks the first time that we've seen a code update for this particular title in nearly two years. and it has some cool cool features of this uh this pinball machine hall of fame inductee tna for one it has the added support for the upgraded core numeric display up at the top there you'll see that in the newer games like rick and morty and such the light shows have been updated to include new rgb leds an upgraded core display jukebox mode is added so you can with your friends at home. Or you can't beep, can you? It's got a muted beep, sad beep. It's got a wamp beep. Yeah. Merman beep. Added a new song when the reactor started and the value is maxed out. So we got another new song in there, which is pretty damn fantastic. And my favorite of all features, a spinner rip count has been added to the LCD. So it gives a high score of that now of how many times you can rip that spinner They're in one. Oh, that's cool. Am I the default high score name? I think that's Jill Bob. It is.
    48:38
    Because he was pushing it. He's like, oh, I suggested it. I don't know why. He sold his TNA and had to buy another one. I, however, have remained loyal.
    48:48
    That's an Engelburn. Some additional fixes to score a bit in the integration with that. But, yeah, I like the spinner rip count. I like that Dragon Fist has that. I think it's cool. Why don't we do more with spinners, people? I have such a good idea of usage of a spinner. I don't even know if I want to share here. Maybe I will. So in my mind, Dennis, on my Back to the Future production game that I will be designing, there's an OptoSpinner on there. And one of the, oh, man, I shouldn't even say this. Someone's going to fucking steal it. On the mode that you're trying to get to that 88 miles an hour, I was going to have it programmed. This is my fantasy pen here. Program it so when you rip that spinner, it climbs up like a speedometer to 88, but it's not going to get to 88 in one rip. So you've got to rip it, and when it slows down, it will start decaying until you rip it again and build those spins until it gets to 88.
    49:53
    Now tell me that's not a beautiful idea. Yeah, that's a pretty good theme integration. You'd have to really orient your entire layout to make it possible to readily repeat it. Well, yeah. Think about Deadpool Premium LA. Rip that left spinner, comes back up to the ramp onto the right flipper. Oof. Got to get it out there. Don't steal it, people. Ken Cromwell works over at JJP. Maybe he'll toss that idea to them. Don't take it, Ken. Don't tell them. They've got enough good ideas over there. Speaking of King Cromwell, special one lit. Pinball Podcast is making a triumphant return, Dennis. What?
    50:34
    Bitches be back. What? Yeah. Say what? Say absolutely. They ended, what, years back at episode 89. Well, episode 90 is coming, and it's coming this month with the return of King Cromwell, Bill Webb, and Steve Beatty.
    50:50
    So is this permanent, or is this just one episode? I don't know if this is like a reunion special where we see how much they've all aged or like, oh, damn, he's got fat. This is Dexter. Have we come back for one more season of Dexter? Are we going to do another season here? I couldn't be happier. I would love to hear those guys back on the airwaves. They were one of my favorite podcasts before TPN ruined the whole landscape of Femall Media. That's true. TPN killed it. Jason Fowler is just shaking his head right now in the corner. That's right. Where's our slap save return? Jason, that is your name. They are coming back. If you listen.
    51:33
    And what is it with pinball media? Have you seen it? You know you're part of it. Pinball media this last two weeks since I've been gone, I go get a back surgery, and all of a sudden everybody turns into me. Everybody's shilling their own stuff. They're trying to Patreon stuff. They're trying to sell T-shirts with new artwork. what's happening here people this is my gig we're tired of you we saw the values of your pin collection and the people like you being able to go around and buy above ground pools people like you and then you go on and you go yeah I'm middle class yeah okay so it's time to get paid no shit get later get paid baby why not both maybe both pinball media goes patreon we have a lot of the standout media providers and and especially podcasting and pinball that they have opened up their own patreon page for example uh eclectic gamers podcast yourself and tony you guys have been doing this for what seven years how long have you been over six about six and a half years as a long time never asked for a penny but now you say you know what if you would like we're asking for a pound oh no if you've you're basically saying, hey, if you would like to support us, here's a means to do so. And it's not like you're taking any of the episodes away. You're still going to be doing EGP episodes, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. But if they want to support you, they can on different tier levels. Where can people go to do that? Well, of course, they can go to patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers. We offer a $1 tier. Oh, nice. Yeah, we're kind like that. wait a minute a dollar that's it well we have higher tiers for people that feel guilty only paying a dollar i was gonna say what so what are the tier levels one dollar we have a five and a ten also okay five or ten i subscribed you did yeah we had to thank you on our on our episode patreon for egp i signed up but i wasn't the tightest to a dollar look people who did a dollar come on bump it up to five these guys deserve it that's how good that maybe we don't i mean not everyone likes you know so it's not for everyone okay whatever fair enough and then do uh different levels get you anything we haven't done differentiations on that yet but we've been talking with the folks like obviously some of the people that have contributed have said we like to see something different we like to see even if not for the different tiers at least something for those who give versus those that don So I started to release the TPN is quite familiar with these the internal to TPN the Baby First So my series of repurposed baby chick – where did I take that image from? I think it's from Baby's First Bible. I think is the name of it. I used that little duck, and I've done it for years now. and I when things in the pinball happen that I think are weird or silly or whatever I make a baby's first but because I make fun of so many games I don't release them publicly because I'm like you know what there is going to be someone who just doesn't get it and they're going to be all upset and I'm not trying to hurt their feelings so well as one of your babies are on patreon I can't get enough of the baby's first love those things because they're they're they stay in the test of time. They're meant to be. They're kind of like memes. They're meant to kind of be eternal. They do. They stay in the test of time. It's like a good archive. If you collect all the babies first and go back, you remember so many highlights of being in the hobby. Yeah, no, they go back a few years. I really started back into, I think I did my first one years and years ago, and I think I got back into it around 2020 is when I really started to regularly do them. And so, yeah, I have a, so every month my current plan is to release those on Patreon, release one. And then I list the context. So not just you see it, because it's all self-explanatory when you see it. The one that's up there for people right now, I'll just name the title of it, is Baby's First Live Catch. I remember that one. In the post, I explain why did I do this? Why did I blame this band company for causing this problem? And what was my motivation for the design? oh that's good stuff and does that go to all the patreon people or is it oh yeah that's for everyone we haven't we haven't done anything for the the upper tiers i'll separate that talking to people like one of the things they've asked for is bonus episodes and it's like sure that's a big thing but we already cover all the news like we don't leave news out on egp we just speed up the show if we think it's going too long like we won't talk as long so but one of the things the The one that's leading the poll is like an EGP After Dark where – because people have this impression. I noticed that even on this show where I am a little more, I guess, opinionated. Maybe it would be the way to say it. People, they don't think I swear.
    56:35
    Oh, yeah. And Tony and I actually – So this would be like an uncut version of you guys. Yeah, yes. The concept is, all right, well, what if we did a show where we weren't deliberately censoring? because, yeah, I'll put in a censor beep on bad language, but we don't talk like how we talk on the podcast in real life. You aim not to have it because you want it to be digestible to a mass amount. It's meant so people can play it in the car without feeling guilty if they've got kids in the car with them. So anyway, what I'm kind of thinking is maybe, because there's so much popularity for that, is maybe we do an EGP Q&A just for the Patreon where people can post or send in questions, and we'll answer them, but we won't beep. I've been giving you my opinion here, but I've not been nearly as, let's say, colorful in the word choices I am in real life when I talk about this. Oh, man. See? Makes me want to go subscribe again. So go subscribe to EGP, people. Please go do that. And then also, Triple Drain, the other big heavy hitters for TPN, Triple Drain and Silver Ball Chronicles. Oh, Silver Ball Chronicles. See? They've both opened up patrons. They have different perks for different levels as well. I know that Triple Drain, you get the episode early, don't you? I think Silver Ball is doing that, too. Oh, okay. I don't think they're doing it for their lowest tier, but for their other tiers. Very cool. It is a nice, easy way for listeners to see. When are we going to do it?
    57:59
    Now, damn it, I pitched this to you, I think, a year ago, didn't I? Did you? I think I did. I don't remember it. Yeah, because I had different categories. Well, that was before I had to replace my windshield in my car. So now I'm quite open to the discussion. You and I, as different as we are, we would never agree to terms on how a patron would look for the pinball show. I really just don't think we would be able to do it. Really? I don't. No, because you're too nice.
    58:33
    Gosh, you make me sound like the Pillsbury Doughboy of podcasting. No, you're just like, you're really fair. You're really nice. For me. Who wants fairness in an income model? If people are going to give me money, I want to give them fucking goods, baby. Oh, my God, yeah. I wouldn't want to change. I already hate it. Yeah, see? Exactly. I wouldn't want to change this show at all because this show is where it's at. I don't know. Numbers don't lie. Check out that last podcast. Our most listened to podcast of all time came from episode 113, Dennis. I'm telling the listeners here. And it also came within one week of duration of being out.
    59:14
    Yeah, that's impressive. Wow. Hashtag show your numbers. Hashtag believe me, if you're that worried about them, you don't want to know what our numbers are. Bye, bye, bye. But I wouldn't want to change the show. but then again if we're doing patreon i'd want to give people what they want so what do they want zach tell me i think what those people want is a video show oh my god i knew it i knew you said or or or this or i think a dedicated vip discord with you and i and them nobody else allowed in it only the patreon people and everything's kind of confidential and we're all we're open there but you know an open discord with just you and i for the pinball show that'd be another thing i think is huge well see i could agree to do the discord sure the the video would have to be i mean it's i don't know if i'd want to do video well well here's the thing here's how i would say for there'd be two two factors on the video one i wouldn't want to do it every other week like this So we have to agree to a video schedule that made a lot more sense. Like are we maybe every other month we could do a video? And then there's the question of, is the video going to be totally separate or is it just going to be the video version of one of the audio podcasts? So that would be something to think about because if it's unique, then I think we could get away with not doing it as frequently. Oh yeah. So that would be one thing. And then it has to be at a higher tier than, you know, like five bucks a month. I I'm sorry. Maybe, you know what? Maybe we can ask the listener then. Listener, the pinballnetworkatgmail.com. Emails on what you think would be a fun way that you could show support through a Patreon-like campaign for the pinball show. I thought the other thing we could do, Dennis, is we've talked about streamlining this show significantly and recording like we always do. And then streamline a half an hour show every week, every other week for the pinball show for consumption of anyone and everyone for free. but have the full big old episode for the Patreon people. That could work. Like if you and I go on a big old rant about something that maybe could be cut, but maybe we leave that for the unedited version. That could work. See, I thought we'd be further up. I thought you were going to say stuff. Well, Dennis, you're going to have to come out here and in person, and I get to hit you in the face every time you interrupt me. I was thinking we also could have done, if we do consider the Patreon, like a monthly virtual hangout. Yeah, actually. Kind of like you're doing the streams now with Joel and stuff. Right, right, right. Just to bring them in. Yeah, invite only kind of thing. Personal little chat with a cluster of them. I might be able to, yeah. Email us at thepinballnetworkatgmail.com. Email. Maybe we will do that. Because what else are we reaching for? Oh, well, what if we did? Here's one I had an idea of. This one you might not like. At a high enough tier, the members, after every three months of doing that sustained tier, they get the right to dictate one thing about how we do the show. They can say, all right, on this episode – so Bob's contributed at the dictate tier for three months. And so he writes in and he says, okay, for this episode, I don't want the eagle to appear at all. And Jane does it for three months, and she goes, on this episode, Dennis cannot do a fake exasperated gasp the entire episode. He just has to shut his mouth. What about the Godzilla? Or they could take away my Godzilla. Or they could say Godzilla has to appear. So they're playing God? Yeah. I don't know if I like that. I mean, within reason. They can't make us go on weird rants and insult a bunch of pinball people. What about for Patreon people, a personalized pinball market trends? I thought about that one, too, where they could actually say this is what they want the market trend to cover. Or you, for the Patreon people, give a quarterly pinball market trend segment.
    63:21
    I also thought maybe there should be the polynomial trend where those that do that, I have to do for them a market trend myself. Oh, see? Like a real one, like how I did back in the day. Yeah, like a legit one. That's so many good ideas. Oh, there's too many. I'm going to be thinking about that now. Do we ever just say to hell with it and put it all behind a paywall? Because that is how we get paid. I'm not a fan of that. I don't. All right. Well, so that's that. In the meantime, if you want to support us, just reach out with well wishes, kind words, discussion at the pinballnetwork at gmail.com. Follow, subscribe, like to TPN and everything like that. So pinball media went all Patreon on us here in this industry. What else is happening in the industry? Oh, we've got changes by American Pinball. Oh, tanks in space? Tanks in space. Why is that? Do you think people are just so hungry for stuff that that's now because I'm feeling like people are almost shilling it without seeing it. Because it's so ridiculous. That's why. I think it's just people really want a lunchbox. I just think that's what it is. They better sell lunchboxes. Lunchboxes might sell better than the machine. American Pinball this last week announced to the dealer network and to the public some changes in Legends of Valhalla. So they were essentially announcing, hey, this classic we were talking about, classic model of Legends of Valhalla is coming. We're announcing it now. Here's all the specs on it. Here's how much it is. And we'll start producing them, I think they said, the beginning of the year, 2023. Yes. after all of the what we thought were deluxe models of Legends of Valhalla have been produced, which I'm surprised they haven't made all those yet. You know, I've been surprised that they weren't done six months ago. Yeah, I was unconscious during this announcement, I believe. So, Dennis, maybe if you could help. They've got three models now? Okay, I want to read. I'm going to quote from Pinball News, which is where I read about this. Is this the Viking? What is going on? This line encapsulates everything that I love about this announcement. So it's very short. Don't worry. Okay. Now the company has rejigged the lineup by adding a new base classic model and bumping the previous deluxe, which sold out long ago, up to a limited deluxe, while the previous classic now becomes the deluxe.
    65:55
    Exasperated sigh here. Okay, so the deluxe model, which, as you've noted, they've not finished building yet. However, they've sold them all long ago. Long ago. Sold them all. 500 units. That's not the deluxe anymore. That's now the limited deluxe. So somebody has a different model now. Yes. Okay. So what was the classic is now just renamed the deluxe, and there's a new version of a classic that's come in as a third trim option. So now there are three trim options, not two, but they changed the name of every single one of them.
    66:34
    And the Pinball News article has an excellent color-coded matrix. So you can see, like, the Deluxe and the Classic.
    66:44
    Basically, the new Classic versus the old Classic, which is now the Deluxe. Oh, my God, I'm fucking confused already. Yeah, yeah. All right, so the new model, the difference is the optional add-ons that they've taken out of it. So the new classic version doesn't come with the apron light bar. It doesn't come with interior cabinet art. It doesn't come with magic glass, and it doesn't come with a shaker motor. That's what they've stripped out of the old classic. That feels like a classic. Yes, they've stripped that out, and now that's the classic. And if you get all of those options included, they're now calling that the deluxe, and then the LE is called the super deluxe. yeah but what's the difference then like if you don't have the options it's a classic if you have the options it's now a deluxe which we thought was always the deluxe but what makes the limited deluxe different than the deluxe you save six hundred dollars do you get anything different oh oh between the limited deluxe and the new deluxe yeah yeah the the limited deluxe still has all the molded toys. Oh, okay. And the gold powder coat, not the black. Yeah, the limited deluxe has the mirrored back glass and the molded shield and Odin and the arch and the skull pile. Those are all molded only on the limited deluxe.
    68:00
    Okay. The old classic now deluxe and the new classic are all using flat plastics for that stuff. So it looks to me, and tell me if I'm wrong. You may or may not know. It sounds like there are things on the Limited Deluxe that you simply cannot buy as an add-on later. Yes. Whereas the Deluxe now has features that can simply be added, that you could have added on if you were to get the Classic. As near as I can tell, you know, you were, because you're an American pinball distributor. Yes. You've been selling the, what was called the Deluxe. Correct. Now they just call it the Limited Deluxe. and then you remember that they had said that in the future a classic version was going to come out. That classic version is now called the Deluxe. All right. And now they're going to have another new version called the Classic version, which is actually the same as the old Classic version. They're just saving you $600 because it's not going to come with the shaker motor and the cab art and stuff. But you can still add it if you wanted. But you can still add it, which would just turn it into a Deluxe. Well, technically, if you didn't get all the components, it would turn into a classic 1.5 instead of a deluxe 2.0. Zach, you've helped with promotions. You own your own business. You're a successful entrepreneur.
    69:18
    Who does this? Figure it out. Why would you – who in their right mind goes in and says, you know what? Let's rename everything. I love it. Every name is now wrong. The classic is not the classic. Because the Deluxe, the Deluxe isn't the Deluxe, it's the Limited Deluxe. And now there's a new version, and they called it the name of an old version, the Classic. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. I invented the piano key necktie. I invented that, Zach. You didn't hear me rename it the keyboard necktie. I want to be fair here, but also be transparent. As a dealer, I'm confused. That's a problem. and what I'm a bit perplexed about, listener, is I wasn't so sold on this being a huge hit for AP, this game, Legends of the Hall. Well, the article notes it sold out. The deluxe now limited deluxe. Okay, all right. Be that as it may, to then go back and say, hey, I know we're not even done producing these yet. We haven't even fulfilled our LEs, now limited deluxes rather than deluxe, we're going to make a classic, but we're also going to make a deluxe model as well. So we're not done making the ones that we've been trying to make for two years, but now we're adding two other models. We're adding a tank game, and we're going to have two games every year. I just don't know if this is that popular of a game to subset yet again another model from it. Why not just have your classic, strip it all down, I don't care, and then people just add whatever the hell they want to, right?
    71:00
    That's essentially what they're doing. There's no difference. If you're going to have an a la carte list of items like a spooky pinball or something, then just designate those on your classic. And if you want any of the stuff that just simply you cannot buy, then you better go with a limited deluxe. Because the classic is the deluxe without some of the things. So why call it something different and just call it a classic with a shaker motor? Or a classic with a magic glass option? That's what's confusing to me and I would assume kind of confusing to the public.
    71:35
    You think? I mean, I agree with that. But also the, I think, without looking at it, because I get it when I look at the Matrix. I understand, okay, the new Deluxe is the old classic just renamed. However, by calling it that and then calling the old Deluxe now the limited Deluxe, if you weren't to look into the details and you just heard the names, would some of these people who had bought the prior Deluxe feel like they went back to the well and broke their word and made more than $500? You see? Because, I mean, it's like – anyway, it's clearly not. They're not intending to do that. I'm just – I don't – this decision is very weird. It looks to me as if you could do this because you're trying to create more revenue on accessories. You're trying to put them in-house so that people can get them from factory. So I would say if you added up all of these things that are no longer on the Classic but are on the Deluxe, then you could probably save a substantial amount of money by just going all in ahead of time for a Deluxe. but as I'm adding these up roughly you're only saving it's not even $100 like $20, $40 so that's what's confusing it's like okay if you can save me a lot of money alright then yeah it makes sense I might not want a shaker motor but I'm essentially getting it for free because I'm going deluxe and getting all the add-ons but they're comparable so very confusing but I don't know so when are they making deluxes then? I didn't see it in the article I'm guessing because that's basically the classic that's 2023 I mean what's the diff like throwing in some shaker motors and some voodoo glass whatever they call it yeah $600 difference the breakdown price wise for Legends of Valhalla Limited Deluxe which sold through but still available from dealers I think dealers have them in stock right now $83.95 So, you know what? For your top-of-the-line model, $83.95, that's a good look. I like that price for your top model on games, if it's going to be that way going forward. For the metal version, which is now known as the Deluxe, $79.95. So $400 cheaper. And then Legends of Valhalla Classic is $73.95. None of this includes tax or shipping. And prices are always kind of subject to change. Is this the model they're going with on new release games as well? I don't think so. Oh, no. Please tell me there's no tank-designated trim levels. Not after this episode.
    74:22
    Hashtag Timball Companies that make all their decisions based off of what podcasts say. It's a thing. I don't know why, but it's a thing. They're smart.
    74:32
    Okay, so that's Legends of Oz. I still don't have ample time on a lav. Yeah, I don't have much time on one either. So this almost confirms that we're not going to see galactic tank force. We're not going to see that this year. No, no, no, no, no, no. That sucks. I wanted to see it at Expo. Of course you did. And in a way, I'm kind of wondering, is this here? Here's the speculation corner. OK, this is Dennis saying stuff done. No evidence, no proof, not claiming it's true. So I'm wondering if all of this – because I remember people talking about how there was going to be this big announcement from American Pinball online. They were talking about this. And then it felt like it came out the next day, this stuff, which quite frankly, this is not a big announcement. No. This is a confusing claim of a new iteration of a game, and all you did was take out a few features from the game you had already said you were going to make.
    75:32
    That you're allowed to buy later. Yeah. So I'm wondering, is American Pinball like sort of struggling to stay relevant or keep themselves in the public consciousness? And given that they are not having another game out this year, because I agree with you, I don't think Electric Tank Force drops in 2022. This is the best that they can do is to still continue to try and act like Legends of Valhalla is something that we want to talk about. I mean, we are talking about it right now. So in a way, I guess that strategy worked. But I'm sitting here going, and I've said this before, they've had a huge shakeup at American Pinball. David Fix has come in. He's brought in new designers. Old hands have left the company. Zofia Nordman, yes. And all we have is a third-party developed game still is the only thing we're really talking about in terms of what the company is sharing with us. And they had the new Ryan McQuaid. What's he doing? Yeah, I mean – They talked about making Wooly. by these love people. They got the next American Dream from Expo. Whoever wins that, they're going to produce that game. It's a lot of talk, but all we see is a game that was developed from a third party outside of their company. We used to see more, right? Houdini, Hot Wheels, Oktoberfest, internally developed games. In fact, the original big claim to fame with American Pinball was just how quickly Balsa was able to come in And the team together was able to turn around and make a working Houdini game and get it out and available to the public. And now we just sit with this trickling out of limited deluxe models of a game that they revealed at the last expo. And the new news for this expo is, oh, yeah, we've decided to offer you a version that doesn't have a shaker motor.
    77:22
    That's how I read it. You can't argue that. And the other issue is we know that they're having parts issues, just like all manufacturers, but I wonder if we're not having some coding issues, too.
    77:36
    Can you get rid of Kugler? Even if you don't like his code, he was still putting in work. Is it just Ferret there, Joe Schober, that's working? Because I thought Schober's kind of a contract, so he's working with different companies. I wonder what all coders they have there. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it sounds like Steve Bowden has been continuing to – Rules? I think he just does rules, not actual programming code. He's been focused on doing rules on this. Hell, they have him doing marketing and sales too, though. Yeah, no.
    78:08
    There is a lot about American – What is this company's goals? There's a lot about American Pinball, Zach, that to me does not make any sense. And maybe that's because they're not sharing publicly with the things that really matter regarding corporate vision and stuff. But for a company where they had someone, and that would be Mr. Fix, who's gone on a lot of interviews and said an awful lot of stuff, I still feel very much in the dark about anything of substance that they're actually accomplishing. The only way I can see that this makes sense is that they don't have parts to make Galactic Tank Force, but they do have parts to make Legends of Valhalla. That sounds silly. It sounds pretty silly, Zach. But that's the only way that makes this actually rational.
    78:57
    Because you've sold all your LEs of your Legends of Valhalla. Continue selling those. But they haven't built them all yet. Let's bear that in mind. They haven't built those all yet either. I'm a Monday morning quarterback here, armchair quarterback. But if it's me, again, I'm probably ignorant to all the behind the scenes, but surface level here, I'm thinking, okay, we ran this Legends of Valhalla over a year ago, going on two years now. They sold out immediately at the $300. We bumped it up to $500. Nobody said anything, thank God. But we sold through on those. That's what we're going to look at. When it comes to the classics in this market, I can't anticipate many people buying the classics, almost to say that Jersey Jack, they got rid of their standard because of such. So we'll make some classics. We'll throw some out there just to keep the line running or anything, but all hands on deck for our next release, which is Galactic Tank Force. Here it is. Let's focus on getting rid of those LEs, and the same thing with the classic. If there's some classics, then they'll trickle here or there. Our goal is to make 1,000 units, 500 of those being in LE, 500 being in Classic, and we keep moving forward. They keep stumbling on the same product that is not a, in my opinion, based on the evidence that I have as a hobbyist and a dealer, not a certified hit, not even close. So that's where I'm stumbling.
    80:15
    That's where I'm stumbling. Well, I fell over the hurdles 12 miles back. No. I want to sell these games. They make some really good games, and right now the media is throwing them a fucking softball on Galactic Tank Force. Use that, AP. Use that. GTF hype. Because I can't believe that it is getting the support that it is getting, albeit even in a sarcastic patronizing type of way. It's still promotion. It's still exposure. It's still marketing. make the use of that. Yeah, I'm very curious if is this going to be like this sort of natural groundswell of interest in this really obscure thing? I trying to think of an example of like a movie where that happened Or if this is going to be snakes on a plane where if this is where we we we talk about it online we have a lot of fun with it and then they go full it morbin time and re that it more because you think people actually want it i don't i don't know honestly i'm waiting for expo them to have a seminar and be like we're announcing legends of ahala 2.0 here comes the confetti.
    81:36
    Yay! Look, American Pinball, right now, if I'm you, and you actually have media giving two shits about your next game that's an unlicensed theme, you do have Nordman going for you, you got Steve Bowden going for you, you got a lot of good things going for you. Start teasing some of the crazy, cool-ass shit that Nordman creates on his games. Just give the media and the hobby something to speculate on. Start revealing that stuff now. so that people stay amped up, and then the minute you advertise that, look what James Bond did. They announced it months and months before it was going to be released. Take people's money, make it nonrefundable, and move forward. That's what I would do. I'd hit while the iron is hot right now. I would not pay attention to Legends of La Jolla if I was them. I agree. I think they just need to move on to a different property at this point. Thank you.
    82:28
    And speaking of thank yous, I wanted to do a new segment here. Dennis that I'm calling thank you pinball isn't that nice very kind of you this particular entry this week is called thank you pinball something I love about someone I love often times as we have this episode you know we get snarky we have strong takes and based on my and also associated with my discussion a couple weeks ago the seriousness of sometimes how a silly little hobby can get personal and can affect people in very negative ways. I wanted to double down and impart some positivity and some love whenever I can. So with this segment called Thank You Pinball, I wanted to identify something that I, looking back, I was going through work, and I stumbled upon something, and I was like, damn it, I love that about this person. And because of pinball, that's why I get to experience the friendship or the relationship I have. with said person. So this week's submission to Thank You Pinball, something I love about someone I love, is for Greg Bone. It has to be Greg Bone, right, listener?
    83:43
    It's my other video. He's everyone's favorite. I know. It's in my comment lately. Greg should help because he looks younger than you and probably stronger.
    83:53
    I saw that one. He's not younger, which makes me even more sad. I want to thank you, Greg Bone. This is something behind the curtains I want you guys to know about that makes this man even more lovable. Greg Bones stays in the moment. He is able to separate himself, stay in a moment, and really capture and experience life like many of us struggle to do. Once I get my head down into something and I'm focused on something, I have blinders on. And it's hard for me to embrace and process what I'm going through in the moment. He's done this whenever we did the Twippies. He's really good at making me stop and think and realize what I'm thankful for and some of the experiences that I'm gaining in the moment. In particular, this Thank You Pinball, something I love about this guy, when we film something important or, well, important to me, whether it's sizzle reels, featurettes, production pieces for other companies, we hold that into the highest regard. We very much respect that we have the opportunity to do that, and we love it. But what Greg Bone will do, because he's a fucking sweetheart, Whenever I'm working on set or something, he'll take pictures of me framing a shot or if I'm interviewing like a Pat Lawler or someone. Like he'll take pictures of me doing that just for me, just for my memories and for me to remember going through it because I can't stop myself to embrace and process that in the moment. I struggle to separate myself from those things. But Greg never does. so I want to thank Greg Bone and moreover I want to thank Pinball because without Pinball I would have never met Greg Bone and to go through my pictures looking for something for work and to see me setting up a shot or something knowing I would have never captured that moment for myself but him knowing how important it was to me and our process and our growth in this industry is that not the sweetest thing ever listener? Dennis, tell me that's sweet. That's a really nice thing to do. He's pretty nice. No wonder everyone likes him. He's legit. He's legit nice.
    86:03
    I was going to say, who gets in a fight with Greg Boone? People do. He's like Raccoon, though, man. You put him in a corner, son of a bitch will get out of that corner, I assure you. Whenever I have to. Greg and I have only met a couple of times. On the rare instances I've had to deal with him, I just put something shiny down. and he wraps his little raccoon hand around it and can't get it out of the jar, and that's how I trap him. That's how I trap Greg. It's always out in the shiny stuff. It's a shiny cheap beer can. Who knew that the shiny stuff was the inner light in all of us all along?
    86:40
    Thank you, Pinball. All right, Dennis, last time it was a little bit of somber Pinball Market Trends. Do you think we can spice it up, jazz it up a little bit this week?
    86:49
    Sure. You were wanting to say no, but you were like, fuck, you just did that damn stupid thank you pinball segment. I can't be mean. I got it. I'm second nicest. Ladies and gentlemen, let your inner eagle soar, baby, because this is F-14 Tomcat's coming to town. Pimba!
    87:04
    My back. Mark it, Triss. Caw, caw. Doctor did not clear me for PMT yet. Oh, my sutures. It's not caca. It's more like canaw, man. Canaw. I think something may be coming out of my back right now. All right, let's get through this so I can go check it. Let's get it, Dennis. Training up this week is James Bond 007 LE. Yes, they did all sell through, but they are still selling on that secondary market substantially higher than MSRP. Numbers don't lie, people. There was a lot of outrage, a lot of kickback whenever Stern increased their LE pricing to $13,000. But apparently, a lot of you don't care. Secondary spots for the LE model of James Bond 007 from Stern Pinball currently selling for $15,000 to $16,000.
    88:03
    Consistently. What ceiling, bro? Also training up this week is an oldie but goodie, Pat Lawler's Banzai Run. You guys forgot about the game, huh? Sure, it's kind of goofy, and the whole upper head play field is somewhat gimmicky, but the numbers are there. A year or so ago, you could find them in 8,000s, 9,000s. Here recently, you're not going to find a Bonsai run in good working condition, a good example, for less than $10,000. Is there a pricier System 11? 10K by Halloween.
    88:34
    Turning up this week is, flipping the script, Autism Charity. It's coming up. Not only is it coming up, but they opened up the auction. Did you listeners see this? Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, as well as TPN, 4Min, there's a bunch of media groups, manufacturers, all coming together to do an auction. And they're going to do an event, a fundraiser for children with autism. And part of that is an auction where you can go right now to the website. Go to Loser Kid. There's links everywhere on Facebook. I might put it in show notes as well. But you can see the items you can bid on already. Bidding ends on the 20th, so we have a little bit over a week to the onset of Expo. But there is some really cool stuff in there. I've been bidding on the black and white Attack from Mars playfield prototype. Oh, that looks sweet. That damn thing is awesome. Buy, buy, buy! I bid on Franchi's – oh, what did Franchi have?
    89:30
    Superman, Prince, Batman. I'm trying to think which one it was. I don't know. I'm naming everything. It was sexy as hell, though, and it was on Plexi and Lit Frame, so I bid on that. I'm getting beat. And then here recently, I have a good friend in Hollywood, Stephen Jablonski. Oh, yeah. You know. What would that friend's name be, Zach? Well, you know, Mr. Jablonski, and he does a lot of the scores for Michael Bay's films. So Transformers. Yeah, Transformers, yeah. He is iconic in film scores and composing in Hollywood. and he reached out because he's a freaking sweetheart and he said, hey, would you guys take on a donation if I were to give an original sheet music from Transformers from one of the iconic scores, from one of the iconic compositions within that film score? He is going to sign it and Michael Bay. He talked to Michael Bay and said, hey, these guys, I'm part of pinball industry and these guys and gals are doing something really great for children's autism. Would you be willing to sign? And Michael Bay said, absolutely, yeah. Say what?
    90:39
    He'd love to. So they signed an original sheet of music, and that's a hot item right now during that auction. So as a reminder, everybody, go. It's turning up this week because it is a great cause. It includes a bunch of great people, great items to win. So thank you for all of those people who are associated and helping out with that. And show your support by bidding and winning something. And remember, it's not about the value of the item. Every dollar that you're giving is helping out. So don't, oh, well, that's price too. No. Blow it out. The more money, the better. Go buy something. You know, that makes me think that it would be really interesting to see. I'd love to see like a sizzle trailer for a pinball machine shot by Michael Bay. He used to do music video. Yeah. You know how badass that would be? I'm just imagining like American flags in the background and swooping low telephoto shots. 3-16. Will Smith and Martin Lawrence, bad boys. Yes. And separate from that, I would say that if Mr. Jablonski listens to the show, please write into the pinballnetwork at gmail.com and say, do you prefer Zach or me? Oh, no, don't do that. I had a leg up. Yeah, I know. He'll probably say, oh, absolutely, Zach. I hate you. I wish Greg Bone was replacing you, Dennis. No, I love that David Dennis messaged us. I'm sorry, Dave. I'm throwing you out there. Oh, this is so mean to do. I don't, but I love it. It's Dave. Who cares? Dave messaged Creasel and I. We have a group chat, and he was like, so, like, legit, though, Zach, like, how do you know that guy? And I said. So humble of you. I know. It was just such a toss-up, and I was like, Dave, I'm sorry.
    92:28
    Like, just legit, he's a big fan of mine. so it's true this is what he said he's a big fan of my work yes you know the craft dave was like fuck like i should never have walked right into them it was it was sad i felt bad for him hey numbers don't lie only report facts here on film on market trends oh my gosh freaking michael bayne's watch wow holy shit balls so if you're a celebrity out there and you're a fan of my work reach out and make me look even better by donating to this wonderful wonderful charity event i gotta figure out what i'm gonna buy and we put on uh there's a uh creasel clone le t-shirt on oh is there yep yep there's there's one of those on there um i think flipping out we donate dude i donate a freaking topper how am i not going to be part of this not donate a topper not just any topper i donated stern's tmnt freaking turtles topper toadles yeah we got Shooter rods in there, art blades, yeah. Yeah, I sent a box of stuff. I don't think it was valuable enough for any of the auction stuff. Basically, I sent a box of Eclectic Gamers stuff. I had some of the Hydra-inspired Deep Root-style coffee mugs and stuff. I think they're going to use those as giveaways and stuff at Expo, because I don't think anything was special enough to be in the auction. There's so much cool stuff coming in. I sent some shirts, too. Not Creasel Clone shirts, but EGP shirts, Hydra shirts. I think I did a couple of Hydra shirts for them. If somebody does end up bidding on and winning the Crystal Cologne, would you be willing to either sign it or anything if they wanted? Yeah, that's fine. Awesome. Sweet. And then I don't know if Michael Bay would, but Jablonski said that he would do a personalized message for the winner as well if they want. Well, you want me to call Mike and find out if he's willing to also? Yeah. He's a fan of yours, I hear. Yeah, he's a fan of the fact that I bought some of his movies. Oh, my gosh.
    94:27
    The Rock. Best action movie of all time. So good. Welcome to The Rock. Sad to report that there are a couple items that are trending down this week. One of them being, oh, man, a game that I still like. A game that most of you don't. It's Halloween. It's Ultraman. Tis the season, people. Why are you dumping these Halloweens? We saw a for-sale entry on the secondary market from Jay Gentry last week. Ultraman. And he was like, $6,000, take it. I never want to see it again. Ouch.
    94:59
    That hurts more than my lower back. Recently this week, I seen a Halloween, somebody doing the same thing in the $6,000 for Halloween. That's a low-hanging pumpkin, I know. So I'll give you another item here on Pinball Market Trends. Turning down this week. Uh-oh. I'm going to be meeting people. Is canceling your order with a dealer without notifying your dealer. Say what? How does that even happen? How does that happen, Sam? You order a product and you cancel it. So, of course, the dealer would know, right? Yeah. I mean, Amazon knows when I cancel something. Oh, man. My dander was up this last week. We were trying to get some Godzilla premiums and get the chronologically ordered people when they order. And Flippin' Out is kind enough not to take deposits. Trying to help you people out. You don't have to take $250 or $500. No, you order a game from us, a pro or premium, we don't require a freaking penny. And we also give you free shipping on it. I mean, what more do you want, people? the only thing we would ask is for the decency of if you order it and you've purchased it somewhere else before we could get it for you that you ordered, just let us know that's all it's very hard to give a timeline to people hey where am I at in the order list well you're number 25 and I'm getting 20 games well if I would have known 5 people for that are going to say oh that's right I did order that sorry I already got one and I could have told the other people they could have got theirs.
    96:25
    Figure it out. All I'm asking is if I'm kind enough not to charge you any deposit and to take an order that when the game comes, be ready for it. Or give me a heads up and say you've already got one or you've changed your mind. That's all. Is that a dicky thing of me to say? No, I don't think so. I felt kind of bad saying it. Because I'm always telling people, it's okay, you're not the end of the world. Maybe I'm too nice. No, I'm not. I'm a dick. Let's turn something else down. Trending down this week, a newcomer. I haven't seen this trending down in quite some time. It's Chicago Gaming Company's Monster Bash Remake. Now, hear me out. The Monster Bash Remake Classic, Special Edition, Limited Edition, they're all still substantially higher than that of when they came out MSRP. They're higher than that. So they're in a good spot on the secondary market. But if you do follow the data, you will see that rankings-wise, So that thing was pretty firm in that top three, inside top 100. It maybe slipped to top five. It has halted down to number seven now, Monster Bash. Number seven. So that's dropping as well as some of the prices. If you're collecting all of the CGC LEs, now's probably the time to see if you can talk an owner out of their LE at a pretty big discount. Call me crazy, but I think you can probably find a seller of a Monster Bash LE mint condition for $11,000. I've seen them sell in the high 11s. Maybe now's your time to snag one of those. And ironically, the special editions aren't going for much lower than that. You see those in the upper 9s, lower 10s. But the classics, the classics you can pick up for like $8,000. But you're seeing a little bit of regression on the secondary market for that particular title. Dennis, if these people are going to be giving us Patreon dollars, we at least need to save them some money in this week's segment, Deal of the Week. Buy, buy, buy! If you guys go to the Flippin' Out Pinball Facebook page, you'll see a lot of recently uploaded used inventory. And for you listeners, I'm giving special promotions for. We've priced some of these machines lower than they should be. For example, Mandalorian Premium, brand new in box. They're $89.99. They're about to be $96.99 January 1st. We've got a pre-owned one, Low Place. Damn thing's basically brand new. We've got it listed for $74.99. Come January 1st, that's $2,000 less than a new inbox, but I'm going to make it even better for you.
    98:51
    Tell me that you heard it on the pinball show, Deals of the Week, and you can have this premium for $7,200. Buy, buy, buy! Boom! But I wanted the Pro. Okay, fine. I've got a Pro right now, pre-owned, listed for $6,200.
    99:05
    That's enough to make Mama Minnie mad at me. But I'm going to cut it down for you. $59.99. Buy, buy, buy! You want another one, you greedy little bastards? Fine. just listed an Iron Maiden Pro, pre-owned. Everybody wants one. That is a trending game right now. I don't care if it's the Premium Pro LE. Iron Maiden is on a high right now. This individual one that we got in is a Pro and it is loaded down. It's got the official Stern Art Blades in it. It's got the Premium figures from the Premium game. It's got the Egyptian Arch Ramp Mod, Fluorescent Plastic Protectors, Stern Insider Connected already. I've got it priced at $74.99 and that thing will sell. But all you've got to do is say you heard it on Pinball Market Trends Deal of the Week and you can have it for $7,200. Buy, buy, buy! Makes me almost want to buy, buy, buy. And as always, I'm just here reporting facts, people. Numbers don't lie. People love my work. On Pinball Market Trends. Oh, shit. Fucking Dave. Oh, Dave.
    100:09
    Let's close it out here, Dennis. Where can people reach you? They can always email eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com or go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. Use the messenger tool, and I check those regularly. And if any of you come up to me at Expo and say that you're a fan of the pinball show, I'm going to ask you if you've been subscribing via Patreon to EGP.
    100:30
    Because it's so related. It's just, you know, I'm a fan of your work, Dennis, and I'm a supporter. So I'd like to see people giving back to you. And that's how they can, until we get our Patreon off the ground. I'm still thinking of ways we could do a Patreon. Fuck it, we're doing it behind a paywall.
    100:50
    Paywall. You can reach me at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com or watch our video series over on straight down the middle of YouTube. We're sdtmpinball at gmail.com there. Or if you want to buy a brand new pinball machine or a used pinball machine or parts or accessories or anything of sorts, we can help you out over at Flippin' Out Pinball. Go to FlippinOutPinball.com or text me at 812-457-9711 or email me at ZACH at Flip, the letter N, OutPinball.com. You get a tech question, it's Greg at FlippinOutPinball.com. You get a billing question, it's Nicole, N-I-C-O-L-E, at FlippinOutPinball.com. Product showcase this week just in an Iron Maiden Pro from Stern Pinball. We also just got in an Avengers Infinity Quest Pro pre-owned, Mandalorian Pro pre-owned, Mandalorian Premium pre-owned, Hot Damon Elvira House of Horrors 40th Edition. 82, number 82. It's pre-owned. That thing is sexy as a mofo. We also just added something to the Flippin' Out Vault.
    101:53
    People are buying toppers from there. People are just, they can't get enough of the vault items, Dennis. The vault is very secure in its sales, I guess. It is secure. It's doing good. We just sold a Willy Wonka LE from the vault. New and by Alex. Yeah, still had one of those. And this week in the vault is a commission item. Remember, people, if you want to make some money and have a great way to expose your one-of-a-kind things, do so by utilizing the consignment shop of Flippin' Out Vault. So this vault item that's going in today, maybe yesterday if you're listening, is one of those LE, you can't buy them, but it's the Black Knight Sword of Rage Vinyl LP, the Collector LP. Did you even know they made those? I vaguely remembered it, yeah. How cool is that? It's like a bright orange vinyl disc, two sides. It's got all the Scott Ian music on it. And, yeah, badass. So purchase that today if you're a fan of that music or to complete your collection if you have a Black Knight. But that is a really cool one-of-a-kind item, and you're going to be seeing more of those coming out very soon. also James Bond 007 Pro and Premium still taking orders on those taking a list for Elwyn's limited edition 60th anniversary game I don't know how we're going to sell those but right now we're just putting people in chronological order until we figure that out we do now have Toy Story 4 LEs in stock Dennis it's happened we've caught up on our backlog so we have LEs in stock we still have available spots for CE models Cactus Canyon Remake SE is in stock People, if you want a freaking pinball machine, bye-bye-bye. I've got the shit for you. I want to go to the premium. Well, you're going to have to wait for that one. The Deadpool? Well, if I can wait for that one. How about Elvira? Yeah. You've got an Elvira available. Didn't you just get one in? It's so funny. I always tell people that. They're like, could I put my name down for an Elvira premium? Do you take deposit? Nope. No deposit required here. Oh, do you charge shipping? Nope. Free shipping. And do you collect taxes? Let's see what your state is. Nope. Don't collect taxes. And they're like, well, when's it going to come? I have no clue. Sometime. I was like, but in the meantime, if you want the nicer looking version, I get the 40th anniversary. And they tell me to piss off. So got an Oktoberfest in stock. Mandalorian Pro Premium. Rush Pro and Premium. Star Wars Pro and Premium. Led Zeppelin Pro and Premium. Guns and Roses Ellie. Got used games. Insider Connected. Buy some Insider Connected, kids, people. I got some fun stuff coming for the Insider Connected crowd out there. Ooh, some videos and stuff I'm making. Love that. Still have Elvira number 40. Still taking Queen pre-orders. I think we just got Avengers Art Blades back in. Escalers. If you guys want an Escalera for Expo, contact me. I might be able to bring you up one. CGC's Shaker Motors. Still waiting for Stern Shaker Motors. Merch, et cetera. TPN last week, Dennis. Guess what? Final Round had a podcast. They did. We had a lot of podcasts. Damn. We filled up the airwaves last week. That's what we do here at the Pinball Network. Yeah, Pinball Party. Another episode of Pinball Party. Triple Drain. We had the Aussie Pinball Podcast. Free Play. Yeah, Free Play Pinball Podcast. We even had, that you talked about earlier, the TPN After Hours videocast with Joel, yourself, Craig Bobby, and Mike Castleman, where you guys had to guess the rank of a game on pin side. Yeah, Joel had to come up with a game for us to play. See who could get the closest. Spoiler alert, you waxed them.
    105:20
    Mike was pretty close to my score. Mike did pretty good. Craig Bobby did good, too. I think Joel was the worst out of all of them. Well, that's what David Dennis would say. Whenever you guys pulled up Big Lebowski, I was like, because I know where that one was. I was like, oh, they're going to be way off. I was the worst at it, too. I was the worst on that one. You were way off that one. And if you guys are into competitive pinball, there was one hell of a weekend of competitive pinball over at District 82. As part of the pinball super series, Fox City's pinball and Tom Graff. Six tournaments you can watch this last weekend. Go to the VODs. I was watching Saturday night's tournament. It came down to Escher and Jared August, I believe. They're playing BMX. Man, what a doozy that game is. It's the mystery castle of biking, I hear. It kind of was. I'm not going to lie. But it was interesting.
    106:16
    And then Sunday here, while we're recording, they have another tournament going on. But TVN this week, I don't know what's going on. I'm just trying to take my pain pills and my muscle relaxers and get this pain out of my back and in my butt. It's a pain in my butt, really. A pain in my ass. For Dennis Creasel, can I always be your pain in the ass listener? Zach Minney. And always remember, folks, you can email thepinballnetwork at gmail.com and give us Patreon suggestions on what you'd like to see in the tiers. I'm currently thinking we should have a classic tier and a deluxe tier. But if you give us enough ideas, I think what I'll do is I'll move the deluxe tier to the limited deluxe tier, move the classic tier to the deluxe tier, and then create a whole new classic tier. But let me know. GTF!
    106:58
    GTF. Lunchbox hype. And always practice safe pinball. And do me a favor, listener. Today, October 10th, is Dennis Creasel's birthday. Please, if you would, reach out, wish him a happy birthday, and also sign up to support him through Patreon for EGP. Happiest of birthdays, Den Den!
    107:21
    Hey, what's crackin'? What's going on? It's good. What's crackin'? Oh, my God. Hi, everybody. Oh, Dr. Nick. That's what's... Hey, everybody. That was my Dr. Nick impersonation. Yes.
    107:44
    It's almost as good as your Dr. Phil. Moo. Is Alvin Jones here Calling in to say I'm so sorry but Zach did not recover From the back surgery And I'm your new host Please send flowers That's a hanky rubber Yeah you smell like flowers Inhale