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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast: PAPA's Got Some News…

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·30m 11s·analyzed·Feb 15, 2024
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TL;DR

PAPA World Championships returns as Lyman F. Sheets memorial tournament in Chicago, Sept 5-8.

Summary

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast announces the return of PAPA World Championships (Papa 21) after a six-year hiatus, rebranded as a memorial tournament honoring Lyman F. Sheets, a renowned pinball code designer who died by suicide in January 2022. The event will be held September 5-8 at Antarium in Schaumburg, Illinois, combining competitive pinball with suicide awareness fundraising, with organizers Andy Bagwell and Penny Epstein detailing the tournament format, venue capabilities, and volunteer recruitment efforts.

Key Claims

  • PAPA World Championships last occurred in 2017, making this Papa 21 the first in six years

    high confidence · Penny Epstein states directly: 'This hasn't been around, I think we said, since 2017.'

  • Last year's Lyman F. Sheets Memorial Tournament raised $15,007 for suicide prevention causes

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell and Penny Epstein confirm the exact amount: '$15,007' from the 2024 memorial tournament at Interium

  • Antarium's monthly Pinball Super League tournaments now draw 70-90 players consistently on the first Tuesday of each month

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell claims: 'we've grown from about seven games and 10 to 15 players a month to 30 plus games and somewhere between 70 to 90 players show up every month'

  • PAPA 21 A division will have 72 qualified players with a 72-player playoff field, reportedly unprecedented tournament size

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell: 'the A division will be 72 players' with top 40 making second round and beyond

  • Antarium is located 20 minutes from Chicago O'Hare Airport in the Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg, Illinois

    high confidence · Andy Bagwell: 'Interium's 20 minutes from O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Illinois' and 'in the Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg Illinois'

  • Lyman F. Sheets was a legendary code designer known for implementing subtle 'mercy mechanics' that create illusion of player trickery (e.g., extended ball saves, post-multiball jackpot windows)

    high confidence · Joel discusses Sheets' signature coding approach: ball saves lasting 4-5 seconds after light turns off, extended Attack from Mars jackpot windows

  • The phrase 'Thanks, Lyman' became a common saying in pinball community when players experience lucky moments, referencing Sheets' intentional game mercy mechanics

    medium confidence · Joel describes hearing this phrase: 'I heard so many people say thanks, Lyman, whenever something good happens'

  • Antarium will host three separate tournament divisions: Main (72 players, card format), Classics (herb format), and Women's (card format)

Notable Quotes

  • “This hasn't been around, I think we said, since 2017. So this would be Papa 21. And it has a new twist to it, which is going to be a memorial for Lyman F. Sheets, those of you who don't know, who unfortunately died by suicide January 19th of 2022.”

    Penny Epstein @ 0:45-1:15 — Core announcement introducing the PAPA comeback and Lyman F. Sheets memorial concept

  • “Papa itself was always the best of the best. That's who showed up. That's who played. And it was like elite competition. And the format was the card format.”

    Penny Epstein @ 7:20-7:35 — Explains PAPA's historical significance as a premier tournament and introduces card format mechanic

  • “this by far, to me, it's the most balanced in terms of competitiveness. You have to put up your best games. And then, if you make finals, you're going against other people that did the same exact thing. So there's no easy way out at all.”

    Travis (Tom?) @ 9:10-9:30 — Articulates card format appeal to competitive players, emphasizing consistency requirement

  • “Lyman's known for coding things into games that kind of make you feel like you're cheating the game or stealing something from the game...He just simply made it last longer than it flashes. But it tricks the player's mind into thinking that they stole something.”

    Joel @ 24:45-25:30 — Details Lyman Sheets' legendary game design philosophy and why he became a pinball legend

  • “I've developed this burning passion for player incentive...I like to just have reasons that everybody can kind of be excited about playing pinball, even if you're not maybe top four or top ten or something.”

    Andy Bagwell @ 28:45-29:15 — Describes tournament director philosophy aimed at inclusive competition, justifying large playoff field

  • “I don't really like to get a lot of praise I'll cash all that in now if all those people come out and volunteer we're going to need a lot of help for something of this size”

    Andy Bagwell @ 35:30-35:50 — Appeals for volunteer support, emphasizing scale of event (targeting 150+ volunteers)

Entities

PAPA (Professional and Amateur Pinball Association)organizationPenny EpsteinpersonAndy BagwellpersonLyman F. SheetspersonJosh ArppersonKevin MartinpersonRay LitskypersonMichael Benjamin (Benji)

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Last year's Lyman F. Sheets Memorial Tournament successfully raised $15,007 for suicide prevention; tournament organizers planning to expand fundraising for Papa 21

    high · Penny Epstein and Andy confirm previous year raised '$15,007' through on-site tournament, separate fundraising events (Bell & Chimes), and Facebook fundraiser; hosts joking about potential to double/quadruple goal for 2025

  • ?

    community_signal: Targeted volunteer recruitment effort (aiming for 150+ volunteers) and sponsorship campaign for Papa 21 event infrastructure

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'I don't really like to get a lot of praise I'll cash all that in now if all those people come out and volunteer we're going to need a lot of help'; mentions InDisc model with 100+ volunteer precedent; planning raffles, prizes, and sponsorship partnerships

  • ?

    event_signal: Large-scale pinball tournament with unprecedented 72-player playoff field plus separate Classics and Women's divisions

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'the main playoff field for Papa 21 is going to be, the A division will be 72 players' with separate divisions and reported 'March Madness' format seeding structure allowing lower-ranked players to compete for advancement.

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball community memorial and mental health awareness integration into competitive tournament

    high · Tournament designed to honor Lyman F. Sheets (suicide death January 19, 2022) while promoting suicide awareness; scheduled during September Suicide Awareness Month; primary fundraising beneficiaries are 988 Hotline (Vibrant Health) and NAMI; logo colors deliberately selected to represent suicide awareness

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.091

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching. Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. All right. Well, welcome. Welcome to a kind of a strange little unique mini episode we got going on here. If you look, if you're watching video, you're going to see some faces you've never seen on here before. We got a full house today. We got five people here. But, yeah, we have some exciting news. Travis Meary is expecting his fifth child. His fifth child, everybody. How exciting. Oh, yes. No.
0:43
No. That ship has sailed a long time ago. Four is enough. I love him to death, but four is enough. No. But, no, we have two guests on today. We have Andy Bagwell and Penny Epstein. They reached out to us and said they have some very exciting news that they want to announce. So really, I'm just going to step back and I'm going to give you guys the floor. So go for it. Penny, it's all you. All right. So, yeah, we are beyond excited to announce the comeback of the Papa World Championships. This hasn't been around, I think we said, since 2017. So this would be Papa 21. And it has a new twist to it, which is going to be a memorial for Lyman F. Sheets, those of you who don't know, who unfortunately died by suicide January 19th of 2022. And this is kind of an amazing event for lots of reasons. One, bringing Papa back, which is like the most amazing tournament I think that there was. And it was also a huge event that Lyman really, really loved. And also combining this with honoring his memory is very important, along with bringing the awareness for suicide. And September is Suicide Awareness Month, and we thought this was the perfect time. And this event will be happening September 5th through 8th at Antarium in Illinois. Okay.
2:16
Boom. So that's it. So we can click that. So that's awesome. So Papa previously, and just to let the listeners know, I asked a lot of questions before we started recording because as the non-tournament person, I was just trying to wrap my head around what this actually means. So just short and sweet, you said the Papa organization, they own the Papa World Championship and they own Pinnberg. Pinnberg was just recently announced as coming back. Papa was also hosted out east, right? Papa was not in Chicago before, so that's a new thing here? Absolutely correct. Okay. And Interium's taking on that, so I'm assuming, Andy, that's falling into your lap. Is that correct? That is falling directly into my lap. Yeah. And how's that? I'm stoked. I mean, I took over with my friend, Ray Litsky. We took over the Interium Pinball Super League Monthly League from Josh Sharp. I don't know if you guys know him or not.

high confidence · Andy Bagwell and others discuss multiple divisions with different formats and machine selections

“I want to see something kind of like March Madness get created, where you know, you have a Cinderella story, you have a Dark Horse team that shows up”

Andy Bagwell @ 30:15-30:45 — Articulates vision for tournament creating unexpected competitive storylines through large playoff field

  • “September is Suicide Awareness Month, and we thought this was the perfect time.”

    Penny Epstein @ 1:30-1:45 — Explains timing rationale for memorial tournament coinciding with national awareness month

    • person
    Tom Graffperson
    Joelperson
    Travisperson
    Antariumcompany
    Triple Drain Pinball Podcastorganization
    Replay Organizationcompany
    IFPA (International Flipper Pinball Association)organization
    988 Suicide Prevention Hotline / Vibrant Healthorganization
    NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness)organization
    Pinball Super Leagueevent
    InDiscevent
    Fox Citycompany

    community_signal: Antarium established as significant Midwest pinball competitive hub with 70-90 player monthly tournaments

    high · Andy Bagwell states consistent monthly growth: 'we've grown from about seven games and 10 to 15 players a month to 30 plus games and somewhere between 70 to 90 players show up every month' at Pinball Super League; claims this is largest consistent local monthly tournament.

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Card format tournament structure gaining prominence as preferred competitive format among elite players for consistency/balance; contrasted with herb/head-to-head alternatives

    medium · Travis endorses card format: 'this by far, to me, it's the most balanced in terms of competitiveness'; Andy explains difficulty: 'if you zero out one of your games, you're not going to make playoffs'; InDisc cited as successful card format precedent with 40-player playoffs

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Lyman F. Sheets' signature code design approach: intentional 'mercy mechanics' creating illusion of player skill and trickery

    high · Joel details Sheets' approach: extended ball save windows (lasting 4-5 seconds after light turns off), post-multiball jackpot opportunities on Attack from Mars, designed to psychologically reward players with sense of earned victory

  • ?

    event_signal: First PAPA World Championships hosted in Midwest region; previously rotated between East Coast and other locations

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'So we had never had one, to my knowledge, in the Midwest before. So I pretty stoked to be able to have...three of them spread across the U like this' (referring to EPC in Europe, Pinburg on East Coast, InDisc on West Coast, IFPA Worlds rotating)

  • ?

    event_signal: PAPA World Championships officially revived after 6-year hiatus as Papa 21 memorial tournament

    high · Penny Epstein announces: 'we are beyond excited to announce the comeback of the Papa World Championships. This hasn't been around, I think we said, since 2017.' Scheduled September 5-8, 2025 at Antarium in Schaumburg, Illinois.

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Papa 21 implementing experimental large playoff field (72 players) with group elimination format and seeding strategy intended to create competitive pathways for lower-ranked players

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'I've not heard of a tournament having this large of a playoff field maybe it'll be a disaster but I'm really excited to try the experiment out'; plans 12 groups in first round with seeds 25-72 competing for advancement, inspired by 'March Madness' tournament structure

  • ?

    venue_signal: Antarium demonstrating world-class tournament hosting capacity: 31+ pinball machines, full-service restaurant with chef, sushi bar, ballroom space, high-volume player throughput (70-90 monthly)

    high · Andy Bagwell: 'Michael is amazing...he's really supportive of the pinball community. Interium has a full-service bar restaurant with an actual chef in-house...he's actually going to be giving us the entire left side of the restaurant...the entire weekend...with all that stuff reserved for us Thursday through Sunday'

    • 3:08
    A couple years back, and he approached me after we had the September tournament. Penny asked me if we'd be interested in co-oping that for a Lyman Memorial Tournament, and I was over the moon to do something like that. So we hosted it in September last year and had 110 people show up for it. Oh, wow. I think Penny said we raised over $15,000 for us. $15,007. That's $7. I like the 007, yes.
    3:40
    Penny actually approached me that night and said that she was really happy with how things went. I agreed, and she said, you know, this would be something you'd be interested in doing annually, potentially. And I was like, of course. You know, we have a tournament every month. We always have one in September, obviously. We'd be stoked to do that.
    3:55
    And then about a month later or so, Josh reached out to me and mentioned this and asked if I'd be interested in being a part of it. And I couldn't say yes fast enough. So, yeah, in Tarium, Schaumburg, Illinois. So we'll be having the full pop world championships there. So you're saying last year you had basically this tournament or the idea of this tournament, but you called it the – it was a Lyman F. Sheets Memorial Tournament at the time. We just used the monthly – we have a monthly tournament first Tuesday in a local tournament at Interium, standard match play tournament. And I – my wife, Ruth, we both volunteer at the Elgin Pads shelter each month, and she had the idea a couple years back to start doing a charity tournament every year for pads as well in November. Or Penny kind of came to this and stuff. And I guess because of that, you know, asked me about having one for linemen in the same kind of vein. So I was all too happy to do that. So how did you I feel like we have a merger here of now you're you're merging this this this idea of a memorial tournament for linemen, but also the Papa World Tournament. How did that idea come to be? Or Penny, was this your brainchild of bringing in Papa into this? Well, it was interesting. Andy, Josh Arp and I were talking at the tournament and just saying how exciting this would be if we did it annually. And then Josh and I were talking and he's like, I wonder if Kevin would be interested in being a part of this. And we kind of scratched our heads and said, let's set up a call. So we set up Kevin Martin, who is, I guess, one of the presidents or, you know, of the replay organization. So and he was the one who ran everything, you know, previously. Incredible guy. Good friend, great pinball ambassador. Awesome. No, that's awesome. So that's really cool. It sounds like you've got a good memorial-slash-fundraising effort here and a very well-run tournament that Andy's put on before, but then you're bringing in a big name with the Papa World Tournament name. So hopefully this will only grow it. Penny, I'm assuming you have more.
    6:03
    Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's one thing to, like, honor Lyman, which means the world to me, I'm sure to everybody who he's touched through his games, code, software, and just being himself, but also to destigmatize the conversations around mental health and suicide awareness through the joy of competitive pinball. And I think we could all see what it was a very difficult decision for me because Lyman was very shy to be candid about what had happened because initially I really didn't want to. I wanted to protect him still. So I might get upset. Um, so hard to talk about. No, it's, it's, you're, you're, you are great. And there's, there's so many people in this hobby that, that love him and appreciate him and everything that he's done. So it is more than understood. And I know you had, you'd shared the logo. We will share that picture. Um, you pointed out it's cool looking logo, but the thing that I didn't notice is like the colors of the logo are specifically for suicide awareness. So hopefully even just visually seeing something like that logo is, well, you know, for people that are aware of those colors, that there's an impact there. And that's awesome. Thank you for noticing that. Yeah. So also in the logo, you could see like the once you see it, the colors are sort of meshed because we wanted to like exactly what you're saying. The combination of the cause along with the pinball you know and just making it sort of one cohesive thing And after Lyman passing you know when I did announce what had happened it brought up a huge dialogue on Pinside and Pinside which we all know how it is sometimes It kind of took a different turn and people were being kind. People were being honest. People were talking about their personal problems. And I can't tell you how many people approach me and talk to me about some very touching things. And that's what we need. It's not anything to be ashamed of. You know, mental health is a serious thing. And we just want to, you know, bring that awareness and help others. Yeah. So I think you had mentioned before. So there is a fundraising aspect to this. And I know last year you said it was right at $15,000, which is awesome. So I'm assuming the goal here is to Joel, $15,007. Don't forget the seven. Sorry.
    8:28
    Travis, Travis is exactly what I'm going to say. So, yes. So, um, so the goal is a combination of what we raised on site at pinball super league. We also had a belt, two different bells and chimes events, and we also had a Facebook fundraiser. Awesome. I have a good memory of that from last year. Penny was talking to me about it and she got to like 2000 and she's like, I got to 2,000. Should I increase it to like three? And I was like, double it. And she's like, double it? And I'm like, double it. Why not? And then she's like, should I? And I'm like, yes, 100%. She doubles it. It gets to four. She's like, should I go? I was like, double it again. And she's like, I can't double it again. And I'm like, don't stop. Keep doubling it until we run out of time. It was good encouragement. That's awesome. So the goal then, let's do some quick math here, Travis. The goal next year would be what? $30,014? Are we doubling that? Yeah, that sounds like the 2X multiplier. But why not go higher? Why not go higher? That's awesome. So in regards to the tournament, this is where I really have no concept of what I'm talking about. But the tournament itself, what's unique to this tournament? Why is this? You said Lyman was a huge fan of this tournament. What's so great about the Papa World Tournament as a tournament itself? Papa itself was always the best of the best. That's who showed up. That's who played. And it was like elite competition. And the format was the card format. And many people may or may not know that. Let's say you have a bank of 20 games. You pick six of them, let's say, and you have to put your best scores on all six games to have one complete scorecard. That's great. And that's how you would get ranked. we are I mean Andy will talk about this as well but we're going to do a little twist to it for our tournament and some other exciting changes but Papa was just I mean there weren't as many tournaments around when Papa first started and as we were talking about earlier the first Papa was in 1991 so that was a long time ago and thinking about what we have now is so different from what we had then. So it was like the tournament. That's awesome. Okay. Papa card. I know, um, the Papa card is loved and hated by, by many. I, yeah, the idea of, uh, I don't know. I've learned a lot of terminology on this, on this podcast between a pump and dome card tournament. You almost sound like, you know what you're talking about by now. I know Travis hates head to head. He doesn't like head to head. He, I think you just like four people all the time, right? You just don't do well one-on-one? Yeah, it just depends. This format's my favorite format, though. Why is that? Yeah, this by far, to me, it's the most balanced in terms of competitiveness. You have to put up your best games. And then, if you make finals, you're going against other people that did the same exact thing. So there's no easy way out at all. And that's what I love about it. It's a lot of fun. It's the consistency factor, which you need. You may have one great game on a card, and then you're like, oh, but you know you could do it. I think some people, if they're not super familiar with card, they may think it's harder, obviously, but maybe they don't realize just how hard it is. If you think about pinball, play 10 games of pinball or play five games of pinball on five different machines and see if you have a good game on all five of those. Only truly elite players can kind of have that kind of consistency level. Herb, you just get your one game in and you're done on that game. You don't have to play it anymore and it's out of your mind. You don't have to worry about it. With a card format, you have to strategically build your five game selection. You have to execute on those five games and as Penny said, messing up one of those usually, InDisc is a good example with 40 people making playoffs. Pretty much, if you zero out one of your games, you're not going to make playoffs. It's not happening. You have to literally have five... Tom has a question. What's your question, Tom? I know you don't have a question, Tom.
    12:33
    Tom is our elite player. We got him in just to round out the group here. So tell us about that experience, Tom.
    12:44
    Do you like card format? Do you prefer that or no? I do like it, yes. But it's very tough. I mean, it is not an easy format, as Andy was alluding to. but you just have to put it all together.
    13:02
    Going back, looking at Indus from this last year, which is a card format, Zach McCarthy, who won the tournament, literally put in his ticket into the playoffs on the last day with only a couple hours left. So that just shows you how hard it is.
    13:23
    Yeah, that's awesome. And Chicago. Chicago is an awesome choice. a fantastic choice for a tournament like this. Obviously, at least here in North America, it's incredibly accessible for basically anybody, and even outside of that. I mean, Chicago is a great place to be able to fly in and out of, to travel to. But this is really cool. This is really cool. This is really exciting. I'm assuming it will be streamed, which I don't think so. We're trying to find somebody. I don't know if we can. There's somebody we heard of. If anybody wants to apply, they can call my cell.
    13:57
    Let's see if we can get Fox City's. Fox City streaming rental is a new thing, right, where people are just, you just deliver the equipment, set it all up, and don't do anything? Is that the goal? We pay him in boneless wings at Tarenham. They are really good. Awesome. Well, I know both Penny and Andy, you said you had some notes that you took. If it's not obvious, we kind of wing this podcast, so we don't do notes, but you do. So if there's anything else on your notes that you want to hit, I mean, this is the time. Yeah, I mean, I can jump in about Interium and stuff, which, as Joel said, Chicago is extremely accessible. Interium's 20 minutes from O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Illinois. So I am personally really excited to see a major in the Midwest. Pinball majors, there's five. You've got EPC in Europe. You've got Pinburg, which is coming back, which is also amazing, into the East Coast. You've got Indisc on the West Coast. You have the IFPA World Championships, which rotate around, obviously, every year. So we had never had one, to my knowledge, in the Midwest before. So I pretty stoked to be able to have you know three of them spread across the U like this Obviously I biased but I could not be more excited to be hosting it at Interium If you not familiar with Interium it is a massive location in the Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg Illinois
    15:16
    It's up to about 31 pinball machines now. We're going to be adding a bunch more for this, obviously.
    15:22
    I host the monthly tournament there with my friend Ray Litzky. First Tuesday every month, we have a monthly tournament that, because of the general manager, Michael Benjamin, bringing in more machines. We've grown from about seven games and 10 to 15 players a month to 30 plus games and somewhere between 70 to 90 players show up every month for my local tournament, which I did some digging on. I could not find another local monthly that had that kind of player turnout on a consistent basis. So if somebody finds it, they're more than welcome to challenge me. But I think it's the largest local monthly that has ever existed in this kind of consistent manner. So Michael is amazing. He's really supportive of the pinball community. Interium has a full-service bar restaurant with an actual chef in-house. Actually has really good food if you guys haven't eaten there. Tom can attest. The food's very good. It's not your standard arcade fare. They have your typical bar snacks and stuff, too, if that's what you want. And really nice bartenders. Yes. Amazing bartenders. Don, Berto, Giselle so many of the staff there are really supportive and friendly as well they actually have fantastic sushi my wife's very picky about sushi but she swears by their sushi no joke it's legit Joel you would be like oh really arcade mall sushi I know everybody's always like eye roll but I'm like just try it and they're like it's actually really good sushi and I'm like I know but yeah Benji is shorthand for Michael Benjamin And he's actually going to be giving us the entire left side of the restaurant. We've been there when you come up the stairs where the bowling alley is, all the ballrooms. We're going to have all that stuff reserved for us Thursday through Sunday, the entire weekend. So we've kind of got a floor plan set up already for the three main areas. Obviously, we're going to have, you know, the main tournament. We're going to have a classics tournament. We're going to have a women's tournament, all with separate sets of machines. so yeah I just I really couldn't be more excited to be able to put something along like this at Antarian because of all the work Benji's done to grow this community so I think it's a I said it on a Facebook post recently he's created a world class pinball facility capable of hosting world class tournaments and that's what I hope to do with this and also what you've done with Pinball Super League so I was there when it was like six people playing so was I actually saw a memory post from Josh like five years ago or something on the Super League group that he mentioned that they only had four people show up and that he was looking for feedback on what they could do to fix this. So it's crazy to think back because this actually, Pinball Super League is how I got into competitive pinball. My wife noticed the league sticker on there saying that I could submit score for the selfie league back then, five years ago or whatever. And I was like, I'm not good enough for any of that stuff. There's no way I could play at a tournament or anything. She's like, it says you can submit the score right now. And I'm like, really, I could submit the 500 million on Adams that I just got like to the lead, the selfie, maybe that's a good score. So, you know, I submitted that. I came the next day, I met Vince Giannini, local player who took me out to the local ORD club for their tournament. I met everybody in the Chicago pinball community. And I don't know, the rest is history, I guess, as far as my involvement in the, in the competitive pinball scene. So. That's awesome. That's awesome. So, So the takeaway that I'm hearing is if you want a challenging but really fun tournament to play in and you want to eat sushi, this is it. This is the tournament. Joel, the great thing about Interium, I've been there a couple of times now, and it's a fantastic spot. And if you're listening to this and you haven't been there before, I would highly recommend going. because not just the place itself is awesome, but the fact that it's attached to a mall that has other things that you can do if you bring the family. It has restaurants. It has movie theaters. So there's other things that you can do if you need a break or if you need a reason like I do to bring my wife and apparently my five kids I have now, according to Joel, with me. But yeah, there's just, there's so much to do. And plus, I can't say enough good things about the Chicago pinball community. Everybody there is great. lots of nice people, fantastic. And just the fact that this is going to be for not just a world championship, but I think even more important for what Lyman represented and just the way that everything's going about it and the people that are involved in this, I think it's going to lead to something very special that's going to be here for years to come. And to me, that's really exciting. So I would encourage anybody out there in the pinball community to look at this event and very much consider going to it.
    20:05
    Absolutely. Yeah, on the Lyman aspect, one of my great regrets is I didn't really get to know him very well before he passed. And one of the most interesting things I was kind of taught in my pinball knowledge as I grew up, as I kind of got used to this scene, because I played pinball all the time as a kid in college, but I never was very good for the most part, and I also knew nothing about the history of pinball. Early on when I was playing, I heard a friend of mine say, thanks, Lyman, whenever something happened to him in the game. And I'm like, why did you say that? And he's like, oh, because Lyman's known for coding things into games that kind of make you feel like you're cheating the game or stealing something from the game. Attack from Mars, for example, after your multiball finishes, you still have a good five or six seconds to shoot jackpots that aren't even lit anymore. You can actually light the super jackpot. You know, when you already, in your brain, you think that, like, you tricked the game because it doesn't look like you can collect the thing. He was also known for doing the ball saves. You know, the ball save light turns off, but for a good four or five seconds afterwards, you drain the ball, you still get the ball save back, which it's not, it's extremely clever, but it's also very simple. He just simply made it last longer than it flashes. But it tricks the player's mind into thinking that they stole something, you know, that little miniature victory you got against the machine. So I think it's such a brilliant, small idea that, you know, I heard so many people say thanks, Lyman, whenever something good happens for them. I hear people say it when it's not even Lyman's game. You know, it's a common phrase in pinball to say thanks, Lyman, when something happens, you know, that you don't expect to in pinball.
    21:35
    That's great. That's awesome. That's really, yeah, that's awesome. I only have one Lyman game, and it's this, and it's not his particular code isn't finished. It's the Cactus Canyon behind me, and I can't wait for that. But it is really cool seeing his initials pop up and more and more games now having Code Champion and stuff. So, yeah, I unfortunately never had the opportunity to meet him, but it's amazing the games and what he's left here for us to play and enjoy and so much joy that he's shared with the entire community.
    22:08
    But, yeah, Penny, if there's anything else you want to share or if you can wrap this up for us, go for it. Yeah, the only other thing I'd say, come join us. I think everybody would have a really great time. You're going to play pinball. It's for a good cause. And just to talk about the causes real fast, we're looking at the 988 Suicide Prevention Hotline, which is run by Vibrant Health, which is accessible 24 hours a day, and also NAMI which is the National Alliance on Mental Illness Those are probably the two causes that we be working with So and I think it be great Awesome I excited I will add one thing which I'm most excited about as a tournament director.
    22:47
    I use the services of a certain math wizard in pinball, Mr. Bowen, to create the main playoff field for Papa 21 is going to be, the A division will be 72 players. uh yeah travis so um and if you're listening that really big so you're so you're yeah yeah there's a chance i'm saying there's a chance tom i as i've grown in the pinball community from a tournament director perspective over the last couple years i have i've developed this burning passion for player incentive um i'm obsessed with finding ways to incentivize both the best players and the look you know the newest players to the to the field um you know a lot of my events i have I have awards for people of IFPA rank or lower.
    23:33
    I like to just have reasons that everybody can kind of be excited about playing pinball, even if you're not maybe top four or top ten or something. So, yeah, there's going to be a B division as well. 73 through 80 will be in the B division with trophies, with plaques and payouts for those as well. But the main field is going to be 72 people. There's going to be three buys. If I have my math right, I believe it's one through four will get three buys. 5 through 16 I believe we'll get I'll have to check I know that there's three buys so I've got my sheet up in front of me but so you know I'm excited to kind of maybe engage a part of the player base maybe that doesn't always get a chance to make playoffs I've not heard of a tournament having this large of a playoff field maybe it'll be a disaster but I'm really excited to try the experiment out it won't be a disaster so there'll be 12 groups in the first round. So, you know, Maine's going to pay out top 40, which is going to be second round and onward. So, for that first round, you're going to see seeds 25 through 72, you know, battling. And it's going to be group elimination format, pop a scoring, three game, not banks, but it'll be game choice, very similar to in-disc. And, you know, I want to see something kind of like March Madness get created, where you know, you have a Cinderella story, you have a Dark Horse team that shows up, you know, you have a Georgetown or something that storms through the field as an 11-seat or a 13-seat or something, or in this case a 50-seat or a 60-seat, because there's a lot of amazing pinball players out there that are not necessarily potentially highly ranked in the IFPA. So I want to create a situation where maybe more local scenes get fired up and engaged to see players that maybe not everybody knows about show up on this world stage, because from all those groups, two people are going to advance from every group. I think you're not going to see the truly elites until the second or third round kind of come into the mix. So I hope this is a way to kind of create a situation where more people are excited about putting cards in versus feeling like you don't have a chance maybe to make playoffs. Sure. That's awesome. And you already mentioned, right, that we're going to have Maine Classics and Women's just to make sure. Penny mentioned the wrinkle. So the wrinkle kind of is that Classics is going to be unlimited herb. Everything else will be card. Women's and Maine's going to be card. I like herb a little more. it's kind of relaxing. So I kind of pushed a little bit to have compromise of some card and some herb. And I think it will be fun to kind of build it. Herb format. Herb format, yes. I'm not opposed to that either, obviously. I was like, just to, you know. We're in Illinois, so FYI. So just to wrap it all up, your tickets. Tickets go on sale when? Or when is this? We're still working on getting the ticket portion set up. So there's not going to be any cap on players. I'm not sure of the exact timeline. I think Josh at the IFPA is probably going to be getting something together with this as far as purchasing tickets and stuff. It's going to be pretty similar to InDesk, I feel like, as far as buying goes. Also, I guess the biggest thing, Penny, too, is I need volunteers. I don't know if I said that loud enough, but I've been keeping this secret for a while, and the thing I'm most excited about is to start going as hard as I can on volunteers. someone from Indus was kind enough to share their volunteer list with me it's over 100 people that they had volunteer for Indus which is amazing and fantastic so this does not happen without the community's help I told Penny a couple days ago a lot of people thank me for running tournaments and stuff locally I don't really like to get a lot of praise I'll cash all that in now if all those people come out and volunteer we're going to need a lot of help for something of this size So we'll have 110 people right off the bat. No, we're going to have 150 people right off the bat. Awesome. Double it. So where can people contact you, Andy, if they want to volunteer?
    27:30
    Penny, I think you said you were going to set up an email possibly to reach out to us at. Potentially. Yeah, they can also reach out to me directly on Facebook, Messenger. You're free to ask Tom how to get a hold of me. He'll give you my cell phone. I don't care how you get a hold of me. The Pinball Super League group on Facebook is a group that was created a long time ago for sharing out tournaments in the Chicago area and stuff. You're welcome to join that. I'll be announcing a bunch of stuff on there on my personal Facebook page, putting out the call for volunteers. I plan on getting a sign-up sheet set up. Obviously, September 5th through 9th, we're a ways out still, so seven months to go pretty much roughly until we're going to be doing this thing. But I'm going to be pushing hard on getting volunteers. So and we'll also be reaching out to people for sponsorship as well. So that's something that we're working on, too. We're going to be doing raffles, prizes, things. We're going to make this the best experience possible for all who attend. Awesome. OK, so everybody. Yeah. Everybody mark your calendars. It was September. You said fifth through ninth. Is that right? Through eighth. Through eighth. Sorry. My bad. Well, stay an extra day. You know, I'm not going to Monday. So double checking that month. Actually, our our warm up tournament or our our monthly tournament for Interium is the third that Tuesday. So if you want to come out even earlier, early, shoot. And it's great because, like we said, September is National Suicide Awareness Month. September 10th is National Suicide Prevention Day. And of course, they needed a the ninth, you know, September 8th or 14th is Suicide Prevention Week. So we tried to tack on as closely as we could to that date as well. So lots of good things happening. Well, that's awesome. Well, that's really exciting. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for reaching out to us. I'm happy that we could be a part of announcing this. And this is sounding like it could be a ton of fun. And I have no doubt Lyman would thoroughly have enjoyed this. And this is an awesome cause and an awesome, sounds like an awesome tournament. So I know I'm looking forward to it. I'm sure you guys have a huge thank you from the organizers, which is the replay organization, Andy, myself and Josh. and we really appreciate you guys perfect I joked earlier but just in case it's not super clear Tom is streaming this at Fox City so like and subscribe to Tom's stream please he's still streaming next year whenever we get to this point he'll be here he loves it he can't step away from streaming he's hooked well it's tradition we always let Tom close the show so Tom you get the last words let's go papa