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Sundays with Don

Don's Pinball Podcast (patreon feed)·podcast_episode·26m 10s·analyzed·Oct 15, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Don reviews Venom after 40+ plays with his daughter; finds it repetitive and unsatisfying despite reaching level 78.

Summary

Don Garrison discusses his rotating Stern game experiment with his 12-year-old daughter Emma, evaluating Venom after extensive play (40-50 games, level 78). They critique Venom's repetitive progression system, lack of compelling upper playfield features, and weak multiball implementation, comparing it unfavorably to Scooby-Doo and other games in his collection. Don details custom modifications to Foo Fighters (expression lights, powder coating, T-molding) and discusses future game rotations, production of custom-modified machines similar to Pinball Refinery, and upcoming Expo attendance.

Key Claims

  • Venom save state progress only saves after beating a minor boss, forcing repetitive mini-mode sequences at game start

    high confidence · Don Garrison describing Venom's progression system based on extensive play experience

  • The designer of Jaws also designed Iron Maiden, Godzilla, Avengers Infinity, Arcade Quest, Bond 60th, and Jurassic Park

    medium confidence · Don Garrison crediting designer; claim involves multiple recent Stern titles

  • Venom's multiball implementation is problematic—balls can drain to one while multiple balls remain locked in wire forms without being returned to play

    high confidence · Don Garrison describing specific multiball mechanic issue after extensive gameplay

  • Venom is missing a major mechanical feature like Hyperloop ramps (present on Godzilla and Star Wars) over the playfield

    high confidence · Don Garrison comparing Venom layout to other modern Stern games

  • Don added a spinner to Venom in a location where the game originally had a pre-drilled hole designed for one (similar to James Bond and Star Wars)

    high confidence · Don Garrison describing custom modification and noting the existing hardware mount point

Notable Quotes

  • “The pro Venom is just completely devoid of any kind of longevity. Play it a couple of times in the arcade and then maybe you're done.”

    Don Garrison @ N/A — Stark assessment of Pro version's replayability and commercial viability for location operators

  • “every time you start the game, it's like, okay, well, let's do the three mini modes again and you hit these stupid orbits because it's a hurry up. Well, you didn't get it in time, so let's start this over again.”

    Don Garrison @ N/A — Core complaint about repetitive and frustrating progression loop in Venom

  • “It's actually kind of boring. I don't really like it that much.”

    Emma (Don's daughter) @ N/A — Fresh player perspective after first game, critical to understanding casual appeal failure

  • “Venom is okay but it's not great.”

    Emma @ N/A — Reinforces lack of compelling gameplay appeal for younger/casual demographic

  • “I'm part of this maybe because you know at the middle school level everything your dad does is lame now except when we go shopping or something.”

    Emma @ N/A — Humorous meta-commentary on generational gaming preferences, contextualizing her critiques

  • “Venom doesn't have that compelling upper playfield. It doesn't have that Captain Cutler that you can bash, you get a multiball.”

    Don Garrison @ N/A — Direct comparison to Scooby-Doo's mechanical appeal, highlighting Venom's design gaps

Entities

Don GarrisonpersonEmmapersonVenomgameFoo FightersgameScooby-DoogameStern PinballcompanyPinball RefinerycompanyPinball Lifecompany

Signals

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Venom's save state system forces repetitive mini-mode sequences at every game start, creating tedious loop rather than progressive gameplay depth

    high · Don: 'when you start the game it's the same thing every time... You do three of those then you can fight a boss... if you drain on Grendel then your next ball you're back where you started. You have to hit the six shots again'

  • ?

    product_concern: Venom multiball mechanic is broken—balls can remain locked in wire forms while player drains to single ball, and those locked balls are not returned to active play

    high · Don: 'as you're playing a multiball you can drain and be down to one ball and there's still multiple balls in the wire forms waiting to lock but you don't get those back, they're just cycling'

  • ?

    product_concern: Venom lacks a compelling upper playfield feature (like ramp overpasses in Godzilla, Star Wars) that provides major gameplay moments and visual wow factor

    high · Don: 'The Hyperloop ramp, so that's what Venom's missing. It's missing some kind of like major, you know moment... Star Wars has that thing that goes over the playfield. So does Scooby-Doo.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Don discovered and utilized pre-existing spinner mount point on Venom (left orbit) similar to James Bond/Star Wars, successfully integrating aftermarket spinner despite lack of integration with game code

    high · Don: 'I looked at that where I put it and it looks like there was already a spot made for a spinner to go in... in the same spot that it would appear on James Bond or Star Wars'

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.078

0:00
Can we go ahead and make Sunday morningswithDon a thing? I think that should be a thing, like a Patreon thing. Like every Sunday, we'll just come on for some unscripted thoughts. Let me update you on what we planned and how it's going. So the idea was two Stern games ago, I was going to try an experiment. I was going to go in on the next four Stern machines. And when the next one came out, I would sell the previous one. And then that way I wasn't committing to I'm going to be adding an extra game permanently to the lineup, but I would get to play the next four Stern games, and at these prices, that's like $40,000 worth of games, but maybe I would only be out $1,500 or $1,000 or so just by flipping them while they're still new. So Foo Fighters was the first one of that. How it's going, it's still here, and Venom just got here. So I'm getting to the point that I'm going to be selling the Foo Fighters. I've enjoyed it, I think, as much as I'm going to. And I think it's time for something new because the idea was I wasn't adding anything permanently. Now, I did go a little overboard with my modifications to it. Currently, it's got some expression lights from a Led Zeppelin in there. There's pin stadiums. I've got the pin stadium expression lights that fit into the slots and the slide coming. They told me it'll be in the next three to four weeks. So I kind of want to wait until then so I can review that. But otherwise, I've powder coated it to match the LE. I changed the T molding out. Thanks for component mail for my contents. Check outampfonz.blogspot.com for'reーン1 and rb1 of world's stories . Comment & Subcribe for more fun outtake watches I'm going to bring on a guest to help review that. That would be my 12-year-old daughter, Emma, who is, you know, home from school, given that it's Sunday. Emma, what's up? Emma, you just played Venom for the very first time. www.patreon.com And you're able to gain Some levels you want five levels in your first game and now that is save that's permanent progress for you Until you can, beat you know the final boss then it resets
2:59
Yeah so let's hear from you one through five what do you think of the shots and layout i'm kidding i'm kidding i'm not gonna, make you Be that specific but emma it is a
Mike
person
Grendelgame
Star Warsgame
Elviragame
Rick and Mortygame
Big Lebowskigame
Iron Maidengame
Godzillagame
Jurassic Parkgame
Arcade Questgame
Bond 60thgame
Avengers Infinitygame
V-Pinproduct

market_signal: Don trading premium/rare games (Rick and Morty) for harder-to-find titles (Big Lebowski) commanding higher secondary market prices as part of collection rotation strategy

high · Don: 'Big Lebowskis are hard to come by, and they command a higher price. So that was a good trade up... we can find ourselves a Rick and Morty... I didn't mind doing the trade'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Don executing systematic four-game rotation experiment with Stern releases to experience new machines (~$40k value) with minimal financial loss (~$1-1.5k) through strategic flipping

    high · Don: 'I was going to go in on the next four Stern machines... that's like $40,000 worth of games, but maybe I would only be out $1,500 or $1,000 or so just by learning to flip them'

  • ?

    content_signal: Don proposing new recurring Patreon content series 'Sundays with Don' for unscripted weekly thoughts on pinball, signaling audience demand and potential revenue growth

    medium · Don: 'Can we go ahead and make Sundays with Don a thing? I think that should be a thing, like a Patreon thing... Alright guys, thank you for joining me here with Sundays with Don. We should, last but not least, make this a thing on the Patreon'

  • ?

    business_signal: Don exploring business opportunity similar to Pinball Refinery—acquiring vanilla machines, customizing/powder-coating them, and selling to customers without premium markup

    medium · Don: 'I do like the idea of having like Don's West Coast Customs where like we get a vanilla game in, we dolly it up so it looks fantastic... I'm a fan of Pinball Refinery... but then I'm not charging premium work for what I do'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Venom showing signs of weak market reception even among enthusiast collectors—after 40+ plays and significant investment in modifications, Don is actively planning to sell despite reaching level 78 progression

    high · Don: 'I'm getting to the point that I'm going to be selling the Foo Fighters... I'm trying to stick to the plan of having these games rotate through' and Emma: 'It's actually kind of boring. I don't really like it that much'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Venom exhibits problematic difficulty balance—casual play yields 100M+ scores while focused/skillful play results in only 15M before draining, suggesting broken progression curve

    high · Don: 'If I'm not trying to go for progression and just want to play and throw balls around, I tend to do pretty good... but if I'm focused like trying to play good skillful pinball and get through these modes, I'm only getting like 15 million points'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Don credits the designer of Jaws with designing multiple recent Stern titles (Iron Maiden, Godzilla, Avengers Infinity, Arcade Quest, Bond 60th, Jurassic Park), establishing designer as prolific and high-profile in current lineup

    medium · Don: 'The guy that's designing Jaws did... Iron Maiden. He did Godzilla. He did Avengers Infinity, Arcade Quest and he did Bond 60th and he did one more... Jurassic Park'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo event occurring within days of this recording; Don planning to attend, Emma invited but skeptical about experience

    high · Don: 'We're going to be at Expo here in a couple of days.' Emma: 'Do you want to walk around a convention center full of pinball machines'

    • 3:08
    Giant commercial grade arcade machine What do you, think about your enjoyment level of it All right. What do you think about the theme? Like, do you even know who Venom is? Is that somebody that's even tracking in the middle school hallways? Like, I mean, I know who he is, but... Like, is Venom bussin'? Can you stop? All right. So, you know, is a Spider-Man kind of antihero? Sometimes he's a villain, sometimes he's helpful. You know, but this is a game where you shoot balls into shots. Everything's at the back of the playfield doodle bop swings out and you hit his little dangly bits and That's kind of the game for me like so I don't know I I'm at level 78 or something I have gotten to Grendel a half a dozen times and you know He flips my flippers and I drain or I go out the side lane or something and even after Guy it was so hard to remove those damn out lane posts and mark them just move them down to the easier position I'm not sure if you can hear me, but I'm still having trouble getting past the old Grendel. I was hoping that the save state progress would be better implemented than it is, but basically it only saves it once you beat a minor Boss, and then you can start, you don't have to beat that Minor Boss again. But the thing is, and this is kind of the problem I have with Foo Fighters, is when you start the game it's the same thing every time. I start Venom and you have to do the three mini-mode shots, a total of six shots, there GUY joy objetos You hit one shot and then you gotta hit its corresponding hurry up to light that insert. You do three of those then you can fight a boss. And if you've already beat the mini boss level and you're level 10 then you go to Grendel. You know, and then if you drain on Grendel then your next ball you're back where you started. You have to hit the six shots again and then maybe start another Grendel battle. Who's Grendel? Grendel's that dragon guy in the middle of the playfield there. That's the only one, that's the only graphic that actually looks cool. He does look cool. I played the video mode a couple of times. It's shown up kind of randomly. I'm not sure exactly still how to light everything and that might be my own not understanding the code fully. Doppelganger's cool. The pro venom is just completely devoid of any kind of longevity. Play it a couple of times in the arcade and then maybe you're done. This game, it's weird. If I'm not trying to go for progression and just want to play and throw balls around, I tend to do pretty good. I get through a couple of the multiballs, I get scores in the hundreds of millions, but if I'm focused like trying to play good skillful pinball and get through these modes, I'm only getting like 15 million points and then I drain. So, you know, it's just, I don't know, every time you start the game, it's like, okay, well, let's do the three mini modes again and, you know, you hit these stupid orbits because it's a hurry up. Well, you didn't get it in time, so let's start this over again and oh, now you drained. So that that's, I don't know, that's Venom to me. I'm a little bit of a fan of the game. Emma, you've played it exactly one time, so I love your opinion on it. It's actually kind of boring. I don't really like it that much. So right behind Venom Against the Wall we have Scooby-Doo, a game you've got much more experience on. If we had to pick one of those to sell right now, which one would you pick? Star Wars. I don like that game at all I pitting Venom Against Scooby though If we had to choose one of those Venom is okay but it not great Do you like the ScoobyDoober? Would you rather keep that one? Are you saying just get rid of Scoobydoo? Yeah, we have to pick one to get rid of and it's either Venom or Scoobydoo. What would you pick? Why would you want to get rid of Scoobydoo? I don't. I'm looking for some positive pinball activity and opinions. I don't like Venom. I'm Are you are you looking forward to playing it a couple more times and seeing more of the game? Usually the only pinball game that I always that I play more than once is Scooby-Doo all the other ones I only play like once or twice. Yeah, so I'm part of this maybe because you know at the middle school level Everything your dad does is lame now Except when we go shopping or something Thank you for watching. I'm going to go ahead and get the ball. Oh, man, you were going nuts. And then you got it. Yeah, that was cool. And then it plays that cool music. And it's not like, you know, a brutal game where, you know, your balls are draining and you're getting frustrated at it. Like Venom, it's like, all right, you know, fast lock system. I'm getting frustrated. Venom doesn't have that compelling upper playfield. It doesn't have that Captain Cutler that you can bash, you get a multiball. It's got carnage on a skateboard that you can knock up the ramp, you know. I have not hit it once. I only hit it like once and that was it. Yeah, you know, you managed to lock two balls and get the, what they call the mayhem multiball, but you didn't hit enough. That wasn't really a multiball. That was only two. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of weird how it's implemented. You go into the multiball and you're like, okay, here we go. Pro heck the shiet And he was my música speed dude. Tenders out! I'm a fan of the spinners. I love the spinners and the knockers. I love the shooter rod and the flip mods. It's sad. So I put a spinner into Venom because it doesn't... It's all alone and sad. Here's the weird thing, though. I looked at that where I put it and it looks like there was already a spot made for a spinner to go in. And it's on that left orbit. It's kind of low. It's in the same spot that it would appear on James Bond or Star Wars which also has these type of orbit-lane spinners. And I just had to modify the holes on the spinner a little bit just to open them up because So, I just kind of pulled my pinball out a little bit and then I dremeled the other one and it fits right in there. The lane Guide holds it in and yeah, it functions as a great spinner. It's not plugged into the game at all though. I don't know what I'd really tie it to other than maybe a flasher if I wanted to wire all that in, but it adds some more kinetic fun to it. Then I have the Taco Bell Bell tower mod, that's a one of one, so this will be the the Taco Bell drive-thru at $3 for the consumer. For second place curling, only $5 for the professional. All goodàngrama romipping Have you ever done a objective play textbook before, but you don't have the money to buy it? No, not a single time in the past period. I'm inlearned to read it, I know what I'm doing, but I do not read the script I'm a key getting better at pinball and like, you know, maybe better than me here pretty soon. Like, I try really hard to be as mediocre as I am and she just seems to come in and throw balls around and will end up beating me. And even you too, you know, you play the least of all of us but you'll step up and hit things without even realizing it. And I think you've got like potential to be an awesome pinball player whereas I have to work super hard to even get through things. All I'm doing is just hitting the flippers. I think with the right coaching, Thank you for watching. Subtitles by the Amara.org community
    13:02
    Emma friend is really into Tay Tay and Emma kind of outpaced that You used to love you some Taylor and some Katy Perry and some JoJo Siwa if I remember I have photographic evidence. We used to dress you in the t-shirts and you were like, I need all the bows. I never wear any of them, though. No. I don't, I don't. We would buy these bows at Claire's that you had to had to have and then we get home and they're just like sitting in a corner and you're like you were never wearing these stupid things. And they weren't cheap bows either. I mean, they were cheap bowss, but they cost money. They weren't cheap by price, they were just cheap by, it's just a big stupid bow. Well, mom means made of money, so. Oh, purr purr purr purr purr. That was hilarious, Emma. So, um, I don't know, we are a little overburdened with pinball machines at the moment. But I got such a great line up of fun games I love to play. Get rid of Star Wars. Oh, get out of here with that, man. Star Wars is amazing. I haven't even played it, really. The Hyperloop ramp, so that's what Venom's missing. It's missing some kind of like major, you know moment in the game like okay We got here. Let's do it. Essentially the big moments are okay. We're gonna fight a cartoon boss on the back screen Let's let's hit the same six shots again, you know Only thing that Venom's really missing is something to go over the ramps like Godzilla has like two ramps that goes over the playfield
    14:23
    Star Wars has that thing that goes over the playfield. So does Scooby-Doo Thank you for watching. I'm a fan of the playfield, but I'm not a fan of the fast action shooting. But for me, if you're talking about a layout that's a fan like it is with most of the things in the back of the playfield, Elvira right there is a similar layout. It also looks empty in the middle, but I'll tell you, the thing that Elvira has different is on its sides, it's got things to do. It's got that crypt to go play in. It's got the trunk to lock in. It's got gargoyles that pop up on the posts when you hit them. Get another Rick and Morty, please, and get rid of Venom. It's got such a fun little house at the back of the playfield you can hit and and that plays the different modes and things but if you shoot orbits it starts an orbit mode if you shoot gargoyles it starts a gargoyle mode if you shoot the ramps it starts a ramp mode like there's more in there there's a dance party that goes on if you unlock enough things. There's like floating heads. You can play Gappa Angry there's a physical ball lock that's missing from venom oh I guess it it's got it but there's always balls locked in it. Um, Venom seems a little unsatisfying too because as you're playing a multiball you can drain and be down to one ball and there's still multiple balls in the wire forms waiting to lock but you don't get those back, they're just cycling. So, you know, it just doesn't, uh, I keep thinking like, oh cool, I still have like a couple balls in this multiball once actually I've drained everything and they're just kind of going around and resetting. Those are my thoughts on, you know, putting in, you know, 40 or 50 games through Venom. I'm at level 78, still trying to beat the Grendel. I really want to get through and unlock the three special characters, Steve ammonia & decisions at Studio acontecendo queer baked from mac allowedential Mike from FlipMods, Patreon member, what's up, shout out to my new homie. He hooked it up, man. And I managed to get this thing installed and it's funny.
    16:58
    Yeah, it's, I don't know, I've got a sense of humor about these things. I try not to take my hobbies too seriously. And I'm having, I'm just having fun with it.
    17:08
    What are your thoughts, Miss Emma? How about you get rid of Star Wars and Venom and give me back my Rick and Morty? Did you like your Rick and Morty? Yes. So Rick and Morty was traded for the Big Lebowski, which you have not warmed up to. I don't like that one at all. Well, that's because you're too young to appreciate Get rid of it. the awesomeness of the theme of the Big Lebowski. I totally forgot that we even have that. It's awesome, yeah. I got it tucked over in the bar. So, um, Rick and Morty is a game that I can get again at some point. Um, you know, Big Lebowskis are hard to come by, and they command a higher price. So that was a good trade up. And if we need to, at some point, we can find ourselves a Rick and Morty. That's why I didn't mind doing the trade. It had a jerry ramp and everything. I know, I know. We did love the jerry ramp. But again, we can get that again if we need it. Halloween will be going out. We can get another Halloween if we need it. You know, I don't want to get rid of games that are hard to replace or take a while to get. You said the same thing when you said, yeah, we're going to get another Black Knight if we find one. People saying
    18:44
    This is a great one because watch. With Ninja Eclipse. Watch. Whenever you get one of these games you're going to be like, oh, this one's amazing. So I. Like Venom. So I knew what I was getting into with Venom. I'm trying to stick to the plan of having these games rotate through. This one's going to last at least five months. I do like the idea of having like Dawn's West Coast Customs where like we get a vanilla game in, we dolly it up so it looks fantastic and then we get it out to a satisfied audience. I a fan of Pinball Refinery and I a listener hopefully At a good price a machine that already been gone through almost like how Pinball Refinery does things but then I not charging premium work for what I do But they do look nice And I do like the powder coat I include the speaker grills and the coin doors It fun for me to strip these things down do them up and then sell them out I like switching out the T so everything kind of complements And if I could make a lower trim level have the look and play Hi guys Thank you for watching. I'm just talking of the line that's over there. The V-Pin is great. Like if you want to get your hands on some, you know, older games that are rare or just, you know, you want to go play Lord of the Rings or something, it's on there. You can go play it virtually.
    20:34
    Then why don't you just have that one and get rid of all the other ones? Because the new games that have just come out, I'm glad you asked, because the new games that are just coming out aren't available emulated yet. Clint Fooney Barbie china mrbeing Elliott
    21:00
    continue L precursiony 8-10. 1 cous terminar Check out our Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Twitter for more info. We will be back with more videos on the future of playflix and other tech and other sports. Have a good day. Bye. I put them in Iron Maiden. I put them in, oh, they're in the toolbox. Oh, wait, here's one. Why do you have a duck mod? It's a duck. What is it for? It's a duck. You mount it into the, you can put it anywhere there's a screw on the playfield. The duck is mine. Yeah, they're $4.99 from Pinball Life and they have them available for every machine and you kind of put it wherever you want. Wherever there's a screw or a post, you can unscrew it and you put it in this plastic disc and then it has double stick tape and just sticks your duck wherever you want. Thank you for watching. Do First off, we're going to have a game that plays awesome. The guy that's designing Jaws did, um, I was going to say Foo Fighters. He did Iron Maiden. He did Godzilla. He did, uh, um, Avengers Infinity Quest and he did Bond 60th and he did one more. I keep forgetting the other one. Jurassic Park, the Jurassic Park pinball machine. So it's going to shoot and play well, first off. Second off, the theme is kind of cool. And a third off, um, I'm going to put a duck in it. So. Alright guys, thank you for joining me here with Sundays With Don we should last but not least make this a thing on the Patreon so you're a good man lil buddy! onz is ecll there si fucc? news feed I'm gonna go play venom a couple more times, I wanna go actually fucking get through a Grundle, but honestly guys if you want first dibs I'm gonna get you R strikes N Beats on a goodользa Dank for watching Niesi Thank you for watching And also like if you found any sill they would like to get back gist v I don't know Worthing I'm concentrations www. annotativeентов.com
    25:01
    We're going to be at Expo here in a couple of days. No, you have school, yo. Okay. Do you want to walk around a convention center full of pinball machines and pinball guys in cargo shorts and New Balance shoes?
    25:16
    You're just telling, you're just like showing off the typical dad. With overpriced glizzies at the convention center that aren't bussin'?
    25:27
    You're making me very mad. And that's what we do here on the show. So how do I get back to my sound? So there we go. Let's pump over here. Should we do the outro music? Yeah. Which one is it? Hey, there it is. Don's Pinball Podcast gmail.com. You know how to get to me. We be doing Patreon posts and things. Thank you so much to new subscribers. Mike, what's up, dude? Five bucks a month, man. I love it. We're gonna go and you know that by that pays for ducks. Every $5 bid will get us a duck for the month. We're gonna The machines will be flocking crazy. Later.