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The Pinball Show Ep 37: Did Stern Pinball Secretly Release Their Next Machine?!

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 30m·analyzed·Nov 9, 2020
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TL;DR

Hosts discover unannounced Star Wars home pin comic edition and debate Stern's production roadmap.

Summary

The Pinball Show discusses a mysterious Star Wars pinball home edition comic version appearing on Hamacher Schlemmer's website, speculates about upcoming Stern releases, covers industry news including Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses playfield issues, and reviews recent code updates for multiple Stern titles.

Key Claims

  • Star Wars pinball comic edition is appearing on Hamacher Schlemmer website at $4,500 with three to four week delivery claiming 500-unit limited run

    high confidence · Hosts found images on Hamacher Schlemmer website, discussed verifying authenticity through multiple sources including Reddit

  • The Star Wars comic edition appears to use newly commissioned artwork by Randy Martinez for the playfield

    medium confidence · Host observes detailed differences in playfield art compared to standard editions and notes this would require separate payment to artist

  • Guns N' Roses machines are experiencing pooling, chipping, and cracking issues on playfields from the factory

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg Jersey Jack update; community reports mixed results with some machines affected, others pristine

  • Jersey Jack is using washers under posts on some Guns N' Roses units, with aftermarket laser-cut plexiglass spacers being developed to prevent playfield damage

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg update mentions washers and aftermarket mods for slings

  • Eric Menier's third design for Jersey Jack will not be a re-themed previously made title and that Menier was interested in this new non-licensed title

    high confidence · Jack Guarneri from Jersey Jack confirmed in recent podcast interview discussed by hosts

  • Jack Guarneri described securing Eric Menier for another re-themed game as 'a hurdle'

    high confidence · Quote paraphrased from recent Jersey Jack podcast episode where Jack discussed the negotiation

  • Stern Pinball's next release could come in January, with speculation that December wouldn't be surprising given typical release schedule

    low confidence · Host speculation based on typical Stern schedule patterns and backorder situation

  • Steve Ritchie may have recurring artwork quality issues on recent games due to licensing restrictions from licensors

    medium confidence · Host pattern analysis of Ritchie's post-2012 game artwork (Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Star Wars) comparing to hand-drawn Metallica-era changes

Notable Quotes

  • “I think this is the newest reveal from Stern Pinball? We just got the Led Zeppelin wrong.”

    Dennis Creasel @ mid-content — Hosts realize they may have accidentally uncovered an unannounced Stern product through Hamacher Schlemmer discovery

  • “These look real. Yeah, and comparing it to somebody could be like, well, they just pulled the plastic art from... No, like the apron is different. There's a Yoda art. It looks actually pretty damn superb.”

    Zach Minney @ mid-content — Detailed analysis of why hosts believe Star Wars comic edition is legitimate rather than Photoshop

  • “I think that they wouldn't sell 500 units to this particular retailer, number one. Number two, it would have some type of badge or insignia if it was a Sears Roebuck kind of thing.”

    Dennis Creasel @ mid-content — Skepticism about claimed 500-unit limited run and licensing implications

  • “It's kind of like the next release by Stern Pinball. I mean, think about it. They've got a back order of aplenty, and we're hearing rumors of a Led Zeppelin by a Steve Ritchie, right?”

    Zach Minney @ early-content — Connects Stern's production backlog to speculation about upcoming announcements

  • “I view that these pen home edition things are still really highly experimental and that George Gomez is trying to figure out what aspects, what changes, help move units and don't help move units.”

    Zach Minney @ mid-content — Framing Star Wars home pin variants as experimental product strategy by Stern

  • “And I think it's fair. I see the perspective. It gets a little tricky with Pirates because it didn't sell well for the company.”

    Zach Minney @ early-content — Context on why re-theming existing licenses is challenging for designers

  • “If Led Zeppelin does happen by Steve Ritchie, I think there is something to this artwork issue with Steve Ritchie. The pattern is just way too fixed at this point for me.”

    Dennis Creasel @ mid-content — Speculation about recurring artwork quality pattern across Ritchie's recent designs

Entities

Star Wars Pinball Comic Edition (Home)gameStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyGeorge GomezpersonEric MenierpersonRandy MartinezpersonJack GuarneripersonSteve Ritchieperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack production capacity constraints limiting ability to capitalize on licensing and design talent; backorders affecting shipment clarity

    high · Ken Rudberg notes unclear shipment timelines; Jack Guarneri comment about working 2-4 years out on licensing; hosts contrast to Stern's faster production pace

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Steve Ritchie artwork pattern across recent games (2012+) shows apparent decline in hand-drawn quality compared to Metallica-era standard; licensing restrictions cited as possible cause

    medium · Host analysis comparing Ritchie post-2012 titles (Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Star Wars) to earlier work; speculation about licensor approval constraints limiting artist selection

  • ?

    design_philosophy: George Gomez treating home pin editions as experimental to test which product variations drive sales

    medium · Host analysis of Star Wars comic variant as part of broader product experimentation strategy to understand market response

  • ?

    leak_detection: Star Wars comic edition either improperly released early or not yet officially announced despite appearing on major retailer website

    high · Hosts conclude this appears to be an unannounced or prematurely disclosed product; described as possible newest Stern reveal

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Star Wars licensing permits Randy Martinez hand-drawn artwork work after being sanctioned artist; Steve Ritchie's games face more restrictive photographic artwork limitations

    medium · Hosts contrast Randy Martinez's flexibility on Star Wars with Ritchie's apparent photoshop-based limitations on Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Star Wars; note timing of hand-drawn shift post-Metallica success

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.271

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:26
It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality Ladies and gentlemen, the votes are coming in They're coming in fast And I can predict that the pinball show will be airing episode 37 right now How's it going everybody? We are your hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel Dennis, how's it going? I'm fine, thanks for asking Did you like that intro? It was topical It was Well, you are often very timely. You strive. You are the lord of entertainment. I've been watching and listening to a lot of politics this week, and we have, I believe, a new president-elect. Yes, it's been called by all the major networks and news outlets. Obviously, the formal voting count will continue, but that's standard. It took us a while, didn't it? It did. I think that many states were, if I were to be a little judgmental, not appropriately prepared for the volume of mail-in ballots driven by the pandemic this year. So some of them just did not have either legally the ability to start counting early or they just struggled equipment-wise with being able to do it. So it's been a little tedious, but they want to make sure every vote counts. There were a lot of votes. There were. There were tremendous amounts of votes. We broke records with the number of votes we received.
1:56
Is that too soon? Well, do I have to retire? Not really. I mean, actually, Trump did get more votes than he did in 2016, and Joe Biden has set a new record on popular vote raw count. I mean, all added together, we're talking something like 145 million votes so far that I've seen in the tallies. They're wrong. It's a lot of votes. A lot of people wanted to express their opinion, which going back to my old poli-sci days, you like to see the public actually participate. Yeah. So maybe after a handful of lawsuits and stuff, we will have our new president. Woo-hoo.

  • “It's still too much fucking money you know there was that aspect”

    Zach Minney @ late-content — Community sentiment on TMNT topper pricing despite feature improvements

    • Ken Rudberg
    person
    Zach Minneyperson
    Dennis Creaselperson
    Hamacher Schlemmercompany
    Guns N' Roses Pinballgame
    Deadpool Pinballgame
    Elvira's House of Horrorsgame
    TMNT (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)game
    Avengers Infinity Quest Hulkgame
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Pinsideorganization
  • $

    market_signal: Home pin pricing at $4,500+ remains barrier to mass market adoption; TMNT topper pricing criticized despite removable logo concession

    medium · Host assessment that price point prevents casual collectors from purchasing; community response to topper pricing described as remaining 'too much fucking money'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Eric Menier confirmed to have new original (non-re-themed) title for third design, addressing earlier concerns about consecutive re-theme assignments

    high · Jack Guarneri direct confirmation via recent Jersey Jack podcast episode; Menier described as 'interested' in original licensed title

  • ?

    announcement: Star Wars Pinball comic edition home version appearing on Hamacher Schlemmer website with claimed 500-unit limited run at $4,500

    high · Hosts discovered real product images on retailer website, analyzed playfield artwork differences, found Reddit discussion; legitimacy assessed through detail analysis of apron differences, Yoda art, and commissioned artwork requirements

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern Pinball significant backlog affecting release timeline; speculation on January announcement for next title

    medium · Hosts discuss Stern being 'so behind' with orders; production constraints delaying typical announcement schedule

  • ?

    product_concern: Guns N' Roses playfield pooling, chipping, and cracking issues affecting unknown percentage of units; washers under posts noted in some machines

    high · Ken Rudberg official Jersey Jack update; community reports mixed results; aftermarket plexiglass spacer mods being developed

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Led Zeppelin by Steve Ritchie rumored as next Stern release; timeline uncertain given production backlog

    low · Hosts cite community rumors continuing behind-the-scenes; acknowledge lack of confirmation and production constraints making timeline speculative

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern implementing DJ mixer across multiple new code updates (Deadpool, TMNT, others) as standard feature

    high · Multiple code updates noted adding DJ mixer functionality across title portfolio

    • 2:35
    Would you ever – I want to golf with the president one day. I would golf with Trump. I've gone golfing before, and I didn't really enjoy it. Really? So I would not want to golf with anyone. You wouldn't golf with me? I lost the sensation in my thumb for six months after the last time I did it. What the hell were you doing? Well, apparently not holding the club properly. Playing with wood irons or something? Jeez. My actual wood clubs were, my set is so old, they were actually made of wood. I guessed accurately there. Yeah, I would golf with Trump. I don't know if he would, I would get kicked out by the third hole, but I would make an attempt to golf with President Trump. I think it would be a lot of fun. Yeah, I'd like to be there just to watch you try and convince him to buy some toppers.
    3:22
    Come on, Trumpy. Bye, bye, bye. That's my tagline. Speaking of important people, Dennis, I had a visitor this last weekend. Hmm. And one that some people that are listening know. The pinball world famous Joe Fox visited me up from Delaware. He visited on Thursday and Friday evening before setting off to the Biden land of Delaware on Saturday morning. and we had a lot of fun. Joe Fox got to play GNR. He was loving that. You know what he was loving? And the reason I bring this up is because I love Joe Fox, number one. Number two, remember you giving me a really hard time in the past about me proclaiming that the Evansville Southern Indiana Tavern pizza is about the best there could be? You've given me shit about that. You're like, come on. I don't have any memory of us discussing pizza ever. Maybe I just did that in my thoughts. Maybe that's a conversation you've had with Greg. No, no. Maybe it was Ken. I don't know who it was. But I'm here to tell you that Joe Fox, he's Italian, born, I think, on mom's side. He knows pizza. He knows Chicago pizza. He knows New York pizza. He told me that I have an argument. I made him eat this local restaurant's pizza. He says I've got an argument. It's some of the best pizza he's ever eaten in his entire life. I don't lie. I'm only reporting the facts here, Dennis. People say I'm outlandish, but what I say is true, people. It may seem silly, but it's true. And Dennis, before we jump into the pinball news, there's some sad news this week. We lost a couple fellow pinball enthusiasts. We lost John Cosmall, went by CosMIPinball on Pinside. Pennside. I didn't know John personally. I don't know if I've had any interaction with him, but I did know Terry Ritchie. Terry Ritchie goes by Houdet on Pennside. And for many of you, you guys will know Houdet was rough on me, but there was this banter and understanding between he and I. And we had talked offline on several occasions. He was a flipping out customer and Just somebody I would consider a friend, a friend that I agreed with maybe 10% of the time, but nonetheless a friend, and we're really going to miss my boy Houdet, Terry Ritchie over there. So a quick moment of silence for a couple of Pennside people that we lost.
    5:56
    Well, let's kick it over to see if we've got any correspondence to give us some news. If not, we'll do what we do each and every week, compile some news, to discuss for these fine people. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
    6:07
    I actually kind of miss the beep, beep, beeps. No, you don't. It's time for TPN Industry News. Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Guns N' Roses machines are continuing their slow but steady flow out of the factory. There's still not a lot of clarity about when people who ordered the machines are going to get them. The biggest factor seems to be what version of the machine you ordered. As players wait, some are getting increasingly worried about the Guns N' Roses playfield issues that have cropped up recently. It's still unclear how many of these machines the issues are affecting, but there are definitely players who have shown pooling and chipping and cracking artwork on the playfields on their games, while others have said there have been no problems at all. It seems to be a roll of the dice at this point, and players are just hoping that their machines come out pristine. As I mentioned last week, some of them are coming out of the factory with washers under the posts, and there have been some aftermarket mods to try to help prevent this pooling and cracking, including some laser-cut plexiglass spacers that go underneath the slings. Let's hope that this issue is addressed quickly, because there's still a lot more Guns N' Roses machines to be built. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg.
    7:56
    Ford DeWin and Jack Guarneri from Jersey Jack Pinball. Did you get a chance to listen to this podcast episode yet? I did. I heard it yesterday. Okay. J.P. DeWin is always great. He talked about what it was like working and the development of Guns N' Roses, Pinball, doing the animation and whatnot. And he did Art Direction too, which was nice. Yep. So go back, listen to the podcast episode for that. But Jack Guarneri, he brought up a couple interesting points. Very typical corporate kind of Jack G kind of stuff. So you didn't get a whole heck of a lot. He kind of focuses and has to work nowadays on future games more so than current games. So he's working, listener, two to four years out on securing the licensing, I guess. I guess that's kind of his primary thing, securing licensing for some of these titles. That was my read of it. And I guess for those of you that don't like to deal in calendar years, in pinball terms, that means one to two games. Too soon. It was just very clever. It was just a solid. I thought it was. I thought based off of output, that's been a fairly accurate prediction on my part. That's what makes it clever. He also talked about working with Guns N' Roses and securing that license. And that's been a while coming. But I found it interesting the way he described what she calls, quote, a hurdle of getting Eric Menier to lead design another re-theme. Listener, we know that Eric Menier's first debut lead design was on Pirates of the Caribbean, which has been made by Stern Pinball before, that license or that title. And then here he is on his second sophomore effort. He gets another pinball machine that has been made before in Guns N' Roses. But I was surprised to hear Jack. He really approached this like it was a big hurdle to talk Eric into doing another one of these games that have been made before. Is that just my interpretation? I was going to ask, actually, because I know you and Eric have spoken before. Do you have Eric Menier's address? Because I might need to send him some Bengay for all that arm-trusting damage that it sounds like may have been sustained to his shoulder. That's right. Maybe. I don't. I mean, it came across like Jack had to break him.
    10:15
    Do you think I'm overreacting? That's why I didn't know whether to bring it up because I'm like, that's what it kind of felt like to me, too. I mean, maybe it was just Jack trying to kind of tell the story in an entertaining way. Possibly, yeah. But I just imagine Jack going, hey, I want you to do GNR. And Eric going, I don't want to. And then Jack's like, pick a switch. I want a new theme.
    10:36
    Yeah, I'm friends with Eric. That's what threw me because knowing Eric, he's always been excited about that title because of the things he thought he could do and his affiliation with music. Well, he got to work with Slash and all. It would have been a great experience. Unless you hated Slash. No one hates Slash. I don't know. But anyway, it was an interesting way to tell the story, nonetheless.
    11:03
    He also talked about Menier's next game. He did confirm, Jack Ranieri from Jersey Jack, confirmed that Menier's next game, his third design, is not a licensed re-theme from any previously made pinball title, and that Eric was interested in making the title for his third design, which further proves our point of like, what? That was a weird thing. So, yeah, he said he was very interested in this new non-re-themed title and license for his third design. Yay! Woo! What's it going to be? Watch it be something horrible. No. Eric only likes nice things. It doesn't matter what Menyer's given. I think at this point, I mean, it's two games. But he has been given, let's be honest, he's been given two titles and two licenses that if you were a seasoned veteran designer, you might be like, really? Do we have to rehash all this again? But look what he's done with them. He's made people forget about the previous release of that said title. I think it's fair.
    12:09
    I see the perspective. It gets a little tricky with Pirates because it didn't sell well for the company. Yeah, and we know that Stern sold a boatload more Pirates than Jersey Jack. Boat, I like it. But I think anybody, whether they're in pinball or outside of pinball, Dennis, can stand next to a Pirates and a Guns N' Roses and say, this is a lot different than what I know pinball is. Oh, yeah, I don't think anyone would get them mixed up with the prior released versions of those pins. So we'll see what Jersey Jack has stirring, but I guess the rumor of Toy Story with Pat Lawler is the next rumor that everybody keeps spreading around that we probably won't see until, you know. When will we see another Lawler game? I'm going to guess 2021, but you're probably going, wow, Dennis, what a prediction.
    13:01
    Watch out. I don't think we see it before July. Is that a little better? I think it's a safe bet. Yeah, I think it's correct. Maybe around when, I mean, maybe, it wouldn't totally shock me if it was announced almost a year to the day of the GNR announcement. They just have so many to build is the thing. That's a great point. That's where I'm at, too. If they were producing these things like a Stern pinball, then I would say we could potentially see a Pat Lawler game in the early spring. Sure, but given just how many orders they have to fill and what we've been hearing or what more accurately we haven't been hearing in terms of when they expect to get shipments out, I just don't have confidence in that happening. It's kind of like the next release by Stern Pinball. I mean, think about it. They've got a back order of aplenty, and we're hearing rumors of a Led Zeppelin by a Steve Ritchie, right? Two dynamite things there, a Led Zeppelin and a Steve Ritchie. But when do we see it? When do we – these rumors continue to stir up in the community, and even behind the scenes kind of thing, we're hearing these kind of rumors. So do we see another Stern pinball machine this year? I've seen some people on Pennside didn't say next week. That was two weeks ago, and then next week. Oh, well, I guess that didn't happen. I don't – how? I mean, if they followed the typical schedule, December wouldn't be a surprise. I mean, that is when they push Stranger Things out, but I'm going to stick with my old prediction of January. I think it will come out in January. I think that makes the most sense.
    14:33
    But then again, you always make sense. They're so behind. I mean, they have a lot of orders they need to fill. I just don't see the point in doing it. Man, they have a lot of orders. And did we just stumble upon a new Stern pinball machine without the community knowing? I don't know. Did we? I feel like we did. See, this is what happens.
    14:57
    This is what happens in the TPN Discord. Shit gets uncovered. This is where our McMuffin to the rescue.
    15:08
    Jedi McMuffin on our Discord channel said, Hey guys, what is this? And he shot us pictures of a Star Wars The Pin, but the comic version of it. Now we know, listener, there were comic editions that were done later on for the Star Wars Pro and Premium. They're still in production on those. Yeah, I just watched Ron Hallett from Slamtail Podcast stream his yesterday. Oh, yeah. Ron did get a pro comment. There was a boo-boo on his. They crossed the street. They did a Ghostbusters. They wired the two different spinners wrong. So one spinner was registering at the other switch. He had to move the wire. Old people. The streamer. I think it was people watching the stream who caught it. They're like, is that not registering? and then he went into the switch test it's like oh look the wire apparently the wire colors are very similar so so they put the wrong wire on it's like here we go having to make an adjustment oh wow that would never happen on comic edition of star wars the pen that cracks me up because of all people to mess up the spinners on yeah i thought about putting a comment and no one cares about spinners ron just leave it alone oh ron poor ron yeah but so the the comic version of the pin is pictures that he showed us on our discord and he assumed or somebody else assumed in discord it was just they found it on reddit so it was just a um somebody photoshop photoshopped it i hack jobbed it up but upon further inspection it's real i don't think this is a hack job i think yeah i think it's real it's real well it's in the it's in the amateur slimmer catalog The famous Hamacher Schlemmer Yeah that's what I wanted to say I don't think that's right Hamacher Schlemmer That's what we're going to call it now Hamacher Schlemmer Yeah the hammock schlong Oh no Schlong hammock That's terrible Don't call it that They sell Yoda table lamps for $180 At Hamacher Schlemmer Do they really? Yeah, I see it. The return of the Jedi wall clock.
    17:27
    I love that. Yoda comes out. The funny thing is I could get that return of the Jedi wall clock, the Yoda table lamp, and the illuminated Darth Vader levitating helmet all for less than a topper. I knew where you were going. The setup was way too long. Yep, I knew it. The setup was just perfect.
    17:46
    All right, so I'm looking at these pictures at Hamacher Schlemmer, and this is not a Photoshop job. These are photos. These look real. Yeah, and comparing it to somebody could be like, well, they just pulled the plastic art from... No, like the apron is different. There's a Yoda art. It looks actually pretty damn superb. The play field does the artwork on there. I think this is Randy Martinez again doing the pin. But wait, why doesn't anybody know about this? Is this the only place that's selling it? Well, I mean, Reddit knows about it. I guess pen-siders and pinball people in general don't use Reddit. Reddit's like CNN. I mean, that's where you get the news, right? That's where I go to look at dogs behaving badly. Cat videos? No, not so much. But, yeah, they are there. Reddit has it all. Okay, let's see here. So, yeah, after reading the Reddit posts, it does not give any clarification.
    18:39
    I'll tell you, as an authorized dealer, we have not been given any information about the comic version of the pen. But the site is selling it, $4,500. Please allow three to four weeks for delivery. Some of the descriptions in the product descriptions are a bit odd. Like working Coindor? Like working Coindor, which doesn't surprise me from an outfit like a hammock or a schlammerker because they're like the SkyMall airport magazine sharper image thing. So I can see them selling this, and they are a legit company. in their description they do note they're claiming that this is a 500 run limit this is a limited edition model so maybe that's why no one else is this something that was done specifically for Hamacher Schlemmer man I love that you continue to correctly pronunciate that possibly we're a respected news podcast not a joke podcast oh I know I'm still trying to figure that out I think that they wouldn't sell 500 units to this particular retailer, number one. Number two, it would have some type of badge or insignia if it was a Sears Roebuck kind of thing. Now, maybe there is a limit somewhere. It's not in our typical, like, I didn't see anything on the apron or at the back box, but maybe inside the working coin door? This would be the first time that they have made a limited edition The Pen. It just doesn't make sense. Well, I don't. Okay. I almost want to order one. Listener, should we order one and see what happens? See if it comes to our door? No, because my luck, tomorrow afternoon I'll be contacted by Stern and they'll be like, hey, we've got a dealer conference for tomorrow and we're going to be announcing the new pin. Yeah, do you have any upcoming announced dealer meetings? I can say no. No, we don't. I mean, I don't see a plaque at the apron either. I'm looking. I'm zooming in. I don't see any limited markings on it And it looks like they pulled the premium artwork From the comic version for their cabinet And for the Translight They pulled the Pro Comic Edition Star Wars So it's a nice medley The play field is pretty stunning It looks really good I don't know what to make of this, listener Just thought we'd throw it out there Because we've not heard a lot of people discussing it I haven't heard this anywhere I have not heard this come up. That's strange. Do they need this? Why? I mean, it might help move a couple units, but it's just slapping on the already existing art package. So I think it was a low lift. Do they need it? Probably not. I just don't expect it. No. That's a brand new play field that they had to design.
    21:29
    Art-wise, Randy Martinez. They had to pay Randy Martinez to do this artwork. Oh, I see. Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't think about that. Obviously, the play field layout is. Yeah, that's the same. but does it make sense?
    21:43
    The people that are going to buy the pen, my argument, Dennis, the people that are going to buy the pen, won't they just buy it based on Star Wars? Do they need this custom art?
    21:53
    I think that, I guess my answer would be, I view that these pen home edition things are still really highly experimental and that George Gomez is trying to figure out what aspects, what changes, help move units and don't help move units. And so I figured in the realm of doing experiments, they perhaps thought, let's go ahead. Maybe they saw a significant uptick on the commercial side with the comic book art because the original art package was pretty panned. And perhaps they thought, okay, well, maybe if it looks sort of like a comic style, that might, even with casuals, attract people to spend I mean I skeptical I do agree with you overall Zach I just don I don think that I think the price point is too high on this home edition to move the unit It's too expensive to be a draw to a lot of home collectors. And obviously, its non-commercial nature is a big disinterest aspect for most people who are in the pinball hobby. And I don't think a new art scheme fixes either of those things. I don't either. but again, if we, we also have talked about in the past art sells games. So maybe that's true even outside of pinheads. Yeah. And we, and we do know that if you're going to be launching and really pushing the sales of the pin version of a Stearns pinball lineup, Q4 is when you push this tire, when you push this trim level, I guess it's a trim level. Yeah. I mean, Christmas sales. Yes. They, then they, they tell us that all the time, the pin, you push it during Q4 because that's where a lot of your families that are outside of pinball maybe want to add a special gift under the tree and this is the perfect type of gift for that which I agree on the other thing that's interesting and then we'll drop this this goes a little bit deeper here so I might lose some of you guys when it comes to the artwork you're contracting Randy Martinez again to do this artwork.
    23:52
    I'm looking at, Playfield looks reimagined. The artwork on the plastics all look comic book version. Apron looks comic book version. But then there's this mix, at least on these pictures, and these look like official pictures, Dennis. There's a mix on the stand-up targets as to if it's comic book artwork or if they go with the traditional artwork. For example, the drop-down targets, that is the comic book version of it. Oh, I just answered my own question. What they had done here, if this was legit, they have taken the stand-up targets that were already being used on the actual Pro and Premium Edition comic versions and applying them where they see fit, but they did not have Randy do the stand-up decals that could not be found on the Pro and Premium. Example, Leia Spinner There was no Leia decal on the Pro or Premium Because there was no Spinner with her on there Thus they used the regular Star Wars or the pen artwork for that You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it sounds like they probably only arranged for him to do the play field art And so they salvaged what they could elsewhere And where they couldn't, they just stuck with the same old art That's why I'm thinking this is actually legit I don't know if they just maybe weren't supposed to air this yet So I guess this is the newest reveal from Stern Pinball?
    25:18
    We just got the Led Zeppelin wrong. I guess actually Steve Ritchie didn't design the home pin version either. Steve Ritchie, he's been paying a bit for the artwork on some of his pinball machines. His latest was Kevin O'Connor's Black Knight. It wasn't heralded by people, but it wasn't hated either, like a Game of Thrones or a Star Wars. Do you think his next pinball machine is closer to a Black Knight custom hand-drawn? Or do you think we go back to the Photoshop-y feeling of a Star Wars Game of Thrones? No, I think it will be more of a hand-drawn style, especially if he's doing a music pin. You know, there's normally a desire to do things around posters or album art, though Led Zeppelin didn't really have great album art. Yeah, nor are they like the most beautiful band. So anyway, there's not anything that I would think you would necessitate relying on photos. Like there's no iconic thing to just Photoshop. So I think there would be flexibility. I'm going to go on a limb and this is just a guess. If Led Zeppelin does happen by Steve Ritchie, I think there is something to this artwork issue with Steve Ritchie. The pattern is just way too fixed at this point for me. I think of ACDC and I'm going to go out on a limb and say the artwork may not be up to snuff with what we're seeing from Stern and I'm going to actually say my guess is too whether it's Led Zeppelin or not I think that there's something with the Steve Ritchie pin that I don't know if they get to choose the artist or if he just gets you know I don't know what it is but I mean I've always assumed that it had to do with the restrictions on the licensors and just who he's ended up being stuck with. And the thing with ACDC is that was still Photoshop era. It wasn't until 2013 with Metallica that they started to, you know, they brought in Dirty Donnie and they did the hand-drawn thing because ACDC is 2012. So I think it was after the success of the art package on Metallica that they started to entertain the idea of, oh, look, this really helps sales and it's attractive. But what did Steve Ritchie get stuck having to do as of after 2012? He had Star Trek, so movie license. He had Game of Thrones, movie license, or TV license. Star Wars, they're not going to – Star Wars, highly restrictive license. My argument there would be, not to cut you off, but then why does Randy Martinez get to come in and do hand-drawn artwork for Star Wars? It does happen. It just happens later. It does. But remember, the play field is just like him tracing the hand-drawn artwork. He's just tracing what was already there. I don't think the play field art is that great on the comic edition because you can tell exactly what it was. It's like, oh, here, hand-trace this. I still think it looks better. It does, but it's not. I mean, given I know what its source is from, I'm not exactly impressed by it. The cab sides and stuff, yeah, really impressive. But again, they arranged that after the fact. that was later that that all came about and uh he is a sanctioned star wars artist so i think that's part of why that ended up being okay like i don't know if kevin o'connor would have been allowed to do it we'll see if we hear anything this week officially from stern pimble uh as to the legitimacy of this new pin the pin did you see george gomez i've never seen this there george Gomez this last week was teasing Dennis a code update for Deadpool. Did you see that? Nope, I did not. I like it because he put some time into it and was like, oh, what about 25 new high score modes or what about this? He thought, what in the world is he talking about? The next day, boom, here comes code drops for all kinds of games, but in particular Deadpool. We get a code update from Deadpool version 1.04.
    29:19
    A lot of these games are adding the DJ mixer and stuff, But for Deadpool, we get new champion initials at the end. So you're setting Juggernaut Battle Champion, Mystique Battle Champion, Disco Multi-Ball Champion, et cetera, et cetera. Plus they added songs for Deadpool, this new code update. Katana Rama Polka, that's a hit. And Who Doesn't Love Disco All Day followed up with Disco All Night. And then the prequel, Disco All Afternoon. Some tweaking and different things like that. But we get a code update for Deadpool. We get a code update for Elvirus House of Horrors version 1.01, and it's another hefty little Lyman code set here. We've got all kinds of additions, a lot of tweaks, a lot of fixes, adding sounds, adding light shows, director's cut stuff. So check that out if you have an Elvirus. We have a code update for TMNT, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. We're at version 1.23, fixing issues where the van can lose count of balls. I love code updates that fix physical mechanisms in the way they work. Because that, as a dealer, I'm always dealing with. So that was nice. They also added the DJ mixer, tweaking a couple different things, adding some topper effects. We'll get to that here in a second. And the last code update for last week was Avengers Infinity Quest Hulk 2D2 with version 0.93. The big one there for me was that subway mech. It no longer stages and pauses throughout. It goes straight to the buck and shoots you up. That was needed. I like the effect of stopping the balls, but it took way too long. So we get more light shows, more topper integration. Once that topper is shipping, it'll have plenty of effects in it. Where's the shooter, though? I need the shooter effects. We know that we get a lit shooter on that one. You love code updates, Dennis? Did you fall asleep there, bud? No You know what else we got this week from Stern Pinball? No Something that goes on top of a machine Oh yeah, that's right I watched part of your turtle unboxing Thank you, Dennis Because I wanted to see you talk about the price Which you didn't do This one was so quick That you could have tried to pop popcorn Sit down and eat in your jam jams And it would have already been over It would have You would have had burnt popcorn Popcorn people, here's the thing. I'm a big snob when it comes to popcorn. And one doesn't simply rely upon the microwave popcorn button. Right. Not all microwaves have that button, by the way. Does yours not? I don't think it does. Not my current one. My last microwave did, though. I guess you should have purchased your microwave from Hemmerkiller Schlemmerkiller. See, I can't even say it. Yeah. It would have been limited then. And maybe it had a working coin door. pop pop pop pop so turtle topper yeah you can remove the logo which a lot of people seemed excited about man that was like the turning point of that it's like the one thing people wanted they were like burn that son of a bitch and it's redundancy of logos and then i took it off real quick and took a picture and they're like okay i'm cool i'm cool yeah that calmed everyone right down it's still too much fucking money you know there was that aspect and for and now if you could have offered a discount if the logos were removed ahead of time maybe i'm blaming you for the cute little shit statements that i get about topper releases i'm blaming you why because why i've always been people since can spend money on whatever they want i know i know but you're clever and other people try to be so every time i post something about a new topper people are trying to creasel me they're trying to throw in just a little nugget like oh that's a nice topic but how how about they instead of spending all this money on expensive ass toppers flicks fix their fucking clear cap like i it's everywhere people people want to shine they want to put in that joke of the day when it comes to topper releases well i mean it is a it is something of a low-hanging fruit item to make fun of especially given just the sheer amount of inflation that we've seen in the topper prices since even over the last year. Yeah, I still love the social media posts. There's like, $1,000? That's crazy. And I'm like, dude, read the five statements fucking above it. There's nothing original in your comment. Oh, $1,000? That's crazy. Somebody's already wrote that. Be clever. I think a lot of people actually do just comment without reading the other comments. They just want to comment. They speak without knowing about the tone. Yeah, but I mean, it's social media. I mean, you've read through the comments. Most comments aren't really that good. Oh, have I ever. Quite frankly. So we've got the TMNT topper. Overall, do you think it looks good? Do you think it's less aesthetically pleasing as other previous recently released toppers? What are your thoughts about the looks of this thing? I think with the moving eye thing, yeah, I think mechanically it looks pretty cool. I would put it beneath the Black Knight topper but above the Elvira topper. That is really interesting. Me comparing just moving toppers, that's kind of where I would rank it. I think its movement is more interesting than just the lifting crypt thing. Now, Greg Bone did come from Straight Into the Middle. He came and hung out this last weekend, and he said the same thing, and it shocked me as well. He said, I think it looks better than the Elvira topper. I disagree. I like the Elvira topper. It looks better because it's more molded. You don't get those 2D plastics. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I see that aspect on the desire of the molding versus the flat plastic elements to it. But no, I think that it's okay with Turtles. It's just because I think the lift thing with the Elvira is so disappointing. We think we reached a milestone with that Elvira topper released by Stern Pinball at $1,000 plus shipping. People thought, well, but it's molded and it does move, so we get that.
    35:22
    And Elvira didn't have a pro. So I think some people thought, oh, it's a boutique topper. They're going to sell it for more because they sell less of Iris because there's no cheap option. At least I thought that. But then, Dennis, I feel like we went up another rung of that ladder with this topper release. $1,000. Yeah, given this, now my current working theory is one of two. And you can guess which one. I mean, you can tell me if you think either of these are right. I think either Stern has decided all toppers from this point forward will be $1,000, or all toppers with a mechanical element that moves will be $1,000. And we might see a lower price on any static toppers should they continue to make static toppers. I think you're right on point there. The only time is going to tell which one that is. But the pattern that they're displaying is that anything that moves is $1,000. Anything that is static is $600. But it would not surprise me if we see a non-moving static topper. Maybe it's right. Maybe you're right. $1,000 around the board. Boom, you're going to get it. Yeah, we'll have to see on that because we haven't had a good test for that one yet. And it's just – I also think that Stern is trying to find the sweet spot on where they can – there is a cap here at some stage. Oh, yeah, for sure. And they – in fact, as I somewhat facetiously told Zach privately, but I wish that the TMNT topper had been $2,000 because I think we need to find the ceiling quicker than we are. You did, too. You were all in. You were like, oh, man, I wish it was $2,000. Make it $2,000. I want to see which ones of you are really serious in this hobby. And I thought it would have been more incremental than that, maybe a $1,500 or a $1,200 just to keep bumping it. But you're like, nope, I want to see a full two. Yeah, see a full two. Because you know what? If it doesn't work, put them on sale. Put them on sale and get rid of them. Do you think it works? Plenty of other businesses do that. I don't get where Pinball's obsession with we set a price and we can never sell below that price ever. That's like a new, weird thing. Pinball used to not be that way. Have you still got stockpiles of old Beatles games? Like seeing the distributor that was actually selling their Beatles gold for lower than what you imagined anyone ever would. I'm like, yeah, that's how it's supposed to work. They can't all be winners, folks.
    37:52
    That's true. They can't all be the pinball show. Do you think a $2,000 topper in the current state of Stern toppers sells? I think the ceiling is beneath $2,000. So no, not really. I mean, you probably sell a few, but not as many as they would want. If I were to ask you one year ago if anyone buys a $1,000 topper, you would have said, I think the ceiling is below $1,000. No, I would have said that I think there are people that would pay $1,000. Okay. I think they make less money at $1,000 per topper than they would have at $600, though.
    38:25
    And I think that's still – I think they will make less money on TMNT toppers than they did off of Black Knight toppers.
    38:35
    I disagree. Well, I don't know. I don't get to see those numbers. At this point, it depends on how many they make because they aren't cranking out these toppers. I know, but it's like if they're not going to put in a cap, I think it's a little – shady is not the right word. But I don't like this sort of talk of, well, remember, Stern limits their – it's like, well, they limit their pin production too. That's still my post. Yes, I did, and I didn't like how you tried to imply that it was a limited run. all I have is the data I understood what you I'm not saying that you were factually incorrect but there's a fine line between saying that Stern only makes so many toppers and then people reading that and thinking oh there's a set number Stern has they just haven't announced it and that's not if there's demand they will turn out more we've seen them turn out more toppers on topper counts that you thought they weren't going to be more runs on Correct.
    39:32
    And the other thing in terms of the pricing where I question is, it is still readily available at retail to go and obtain R2-D2 limited toppers. We do have those in stock, correct. And you're not the only one that has them. So why are they not selling? Either Stern Star Wars did terrible or it's the price. Because I thought the R2 looked pretty cool. I did too. You're in the minority there, but I'm agreeing. I thought it turned out. Granted, the weight was maybe not – maybe what we got wasn't worth the weight. But overall, yeah, I like it. I think it's a cool topper.
    40:08
    And that's $250, isn't it? Less than – That's $750, yeah. It's $750. So it's like, okay. A licensed limited edition. I think we're finding the rarefied air, and it's always – there are some people that $1,000, $2,000, whatever. They're not really going to blink at that. And then there will be some where on any given game, maybe that is the quote-unquote bolted to the floor. And if Turtles is bolted to your floor, then you're going to get the topper even if you think it's overpriced. Harry Potter kind of – yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, there are all those different factors in.
    40:43
    Obviously, I don't believe that the margin – like the investment going into the topper has gone up to justify the price. So it's just a price. It's a gouge. It's a profit gouge. A gouge. That's a strong word. The question is whether or not the decreased number – I think they sell less toppers at 1,000 than they did at 500, 600. The question will be do they still sell enough at this higher profit margin that those reduced sales still mean they make more money than they were? Do they really want to make that many toppers? Well, that could be a separate question. If they're just kind of like, you know what? We hate manufacturing toppers. We just hate it. But there's demand. It's easy money. let's just we only want to build yeah like it's and in that case if it's like we only want to like deep down in our hearts we really only want to build like 250 of these buggers then then okay i get it because if they really like it's just a tour to make 500 let's just make 250 and just sell them for more i get it i get it i don't but like as a consumer i don't like it but i get it now i saw some implications on pin side people saying oh they're not selling these toppers like The one dealer that I heard that said they're sold out of these toppers probably only had two. So I'm going to ask you this. Do you think Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles topper accessory that's being shipped now at $1,000, do you think they're selling well, fair, below average? Are they not selling? What is your guess?
    42:16
    I mean, there's so much I don't know variable-wise. I don't know how many were shipped out versus compared to other topper runs. I think it's selling. Do you think it's selling as well as the other last four toppers that they released? I think it's selling as well as the Elvira topper did. Okay. And that would make sense because there's more turtles out there than there are Elviras. Yeah. I will say that any guess as to how many I've sold thus far? How many did you have available? I had, what did I order? I have ordered like 30 or something. I think you've sold 20 that's a good guess I can confirm I've sold at least 20 and I've got invoices out for all 28 of them I might have a couple left $20,000 $28,000 in toppers man I wish that was profit it's not it is for Stern I know it is at least Stern throws us a bone they still don't have it up on their website I can respect that. Thank you, Stern.
    43:20
    They're like, you know what? We'll let our dealers. We'll take care of our dealers. We'll see what they can sell. Until the topper CE model comes out. Oh, wow. Too soon. Sorry. Yeah. I'm still sore on that one. Do you think we ever see toppers from other manufacturers? Like, other manufacturers do toppers, don't they? Do we see more of it? Do we see an increase? Other manufacturers like a JJP, a CGC, an American pinball, they've got to see this they've got to be hearing about this do they take action now after they hear this show yeah they're going to but do they take action do we see uh depends on the company uh i think i would not be surprised if jjp starts trying to sell the topper separate may maybe keeping them on like their ce models for example um and then but spooky i don't i think spooky would probably they have but i think maybe they'll do it in kind of the way they did with the rick and Morty where it'll be like, okay, well, if you buy really early, Bloodsucker members can have the topper for free. That went over really well. It's like, oh, well, we sold them all out. And since everyone bought them on the day, the incentive just happened to go to everyone. I could see them kind of trying to use that to drive initial sales because I think for them, it's more important to get those initial dollars committed on the pins than it is what they would make on the toppers.
    44:41
    But yeah, American Pinball, I could see them starting to sell toppers. I've really been a year and a half ago. I pitched hard to Gary and some of the executives up at Stern to increase their topper and accessories division like no other. I knew that there is money to be made there. I pushed them. Jersey Jack, Eric Minier will tell you. King Cromwell will tell you. I've pushed them We got to have a GNR topper Got to got to got to got to have a GNR topper American Pinball they not really made a game that I like screaming topper for CGC they know how to do toppers And what have we seen? The Royal came out, and then they sold that as an accessory. They did say, oh, that was just because the original standard Nelly buyers, we want them to be able to have some of the upgrades too. But, man, if it works, why not? So I think we will see other manufacturers start to have toppers in the works. Oh, speaking of toppers, you know what? That's a perfect segue into, is this maybe the most controversial segment in all of pinball podcasting at this point?
    45:49
    Maybe. I want to put a topper on top of my topper. And you'll hear about the love of that. Only one place in all of pinball media, and that's pinball! Oh, God. Oh, what up? And that's pinball market trends. Boom, boom, market trends. Put a top of Ronnie on the top of King. Booyah! Market trends, Dennis. Come get you some, baby.
    46:17
    A dish served better, warm and steamy. What's the saying with the dish better served cold? What is that saying? It's something about revenge. Oh. revenge is the dish best served cold this dish is gonna be served hot meaning you you will enjoy revenge better when you're being dispassionate in its execution so with all that like hype scream stuff that's like not cold that's hot yeah it's gonna burn your tongue dennis now that's part of why people don't appreciate it final serve it cold no you seek revenge you're Not capable of it. Oh, because I'm too loving. That's why. I'll hold you one day. One day, Creasel. One day you'll be mine. But until then, turning up this week is a Stern game. An earlier Stern game. No, not that early. Chill out, Ron Hallett. It's the Simpsons pinball party. It's turning up. I don't know if you've taken a look at this, listener on the secondary market.
    47:21
    Simpsons is still beloved, and it's like, I think we've gotten to the point there's enough machines that have been released. It's now kind of right there with Lord of the Rings. I remember back in the Metallica and ACDC days where you'd still have that superiority of Lord of the Rings over Simpsons Pinball Party from a financial standpoint on the secondary market. You'd still have about a $1,000 spread. Nope. Nowadays, it's pretty typical online with Lord of the Rings. We're at the lower sixes, 6,000s, mid-sixes, for a really nice Simpsons pinball party. Used to be in the fives. Now they're in the sixes. Still not a game that I clamor to have or to own. But the Simpsons pinball party, if you don't have a faded cabinet, those are good. They're trending up. Would you ever own a Simpsons? No, I would not. Why? It's clunky.
    48:16
    I don't think one could argue there. Are you not a Keith Johnson fan? Code's okay. It takes a while to get into that game, though. No, I just have no interest in owning it. But I bet you would have a lot of interest owning a Jersey Jack pinball. Willy Wonka is turning up this week with the standards and LEs. Not so much the CEs, but the standards and LEs. Any idea why, Crazy? No, I have no idea why. Well, that's because they stopped production on him. And anytime you stop production, I have found that everybody wants one. They want what they can't have. Tell that to WWE.
    48:55
    Man, that game is shit. It legit is. That's a shitty game. Willy Wonka, Standard and Ellie's are not producing right now. So everybody's been wanting them. You're going to start seeing those retain value and go up in popularity. Plus, the more time people get on a Jersey Jack machine, It just has this weird Jersey Jack effect where it takes a little more bake period for the community to really appreciate and understand the greatness of some of these titles. Willy Wonka maybe being the most Willy Wonka. I may like Willy Wonka better than Pirates of the Caribbean. I'm telling you. I don't have anything to sell, but up until GNR, it may be my favorite JJP game.
    49:38
    It's got a genius in there. People won't give it a chance, but it's got a genius. And our last trending up this week. It only makes sense to trim what the numbers tell me. And the numbers tell me that, bye, bye, bye, it's all toppers. Trending up this week is pinball toppers or pinball toppers. Trending up or pinball toppers or is pinball toppers? It was correct sometimes.
    50:02
    Is pinball toppers. That's plural. Trending up or pinball toppers. No, I'm stuck here, Dennis. Trending up is pinball toppers. turning up or pinball toppers? I'm not going to tell you. Do you know the answer? I know what I would say, but son of a bitch. Toppers turning up because we just got the TMNT toppers and they are selling well. Not even like hotcakes, like waffles.
    50:28
    Like Belgium waffles with Canadian syrup drizzled all over them. Would you ever be intimate with somebody if they were into syrup, Dennis? it's a very sticky situation i mean i don't have a problem with syrup inherently oh you sure kinky little thing you i don't i think i'd have to pass on the whole syrup debauchery in the bedroom i don't know i'm not think about it hardening up in your hair regions nope can't do it nope baby get out some whipped cream or something i don't want any of that especially like the angiomyotis, the fake syrup? That stuff is really sugary. Well, to me it is. It's fake syrup. But tell me you don't eat that fake stuff, right?
    51:16
    I've had all sorts of different types of syrup. There's more than just maple out there. Is there? Yeah. What kind of syrups is there? Like boysenberry.
    51:26
    That's a jam. Is that a syrup? No, they make a syrup too. I didn't even know boysenberry is a fruit. Is it a fruit? It is. It's a hybrid. It was man-made. What? What is this craziness you're blowing my mind right now? A boysenberry? You've never actually had boysenberries? I've never even seen or heard of one. Or is it from gummy bears? It sounds like that. Boysenberry. No, no. It's a cross. I think it's a mix between raspberries, blackberries, and dewberries and loganberries.
    52:00
    Loganberries? You've heard of loganberries, right? What egotistical son of a bitch named that one? I don't know. Logan. Probably Logan. Boys and Bears. While he was running. No. Man, I need to get into the Barry game better. I don't know anything about this. What's the jam or the syrup that goes on the Ikea meatballs? Ever had a Swedish meatball from Ikea? No. I've never been to Ikea. What? I don't build my own furniture. You're flugelschein? I pay for my furniture to be pre-built. No wonder you've never heard of... Schlongaker, homaker. Like IHOP has boysenberry syrup at their tables, or they used to back in the day. That's an odd thing. I'm going to, listener, you're hearing me type, Ikea. If I sent you some Ikea meatballs, would you eat them?
    52:51
    No. Why? I don't trust meat shipped in the mail. No, it's something dragonberry. It's something really weird. Berry, I'm just saying.
    53:02
    Lingenberry. lingonberry apparently I did not know this but looking it up according to the Wikipedia ever since 2016 New Zealand is the largest exporter of the boysenberry get another boysenberry yeah I think our I think our American boysenberries tend to come from California maybe Oregon some west coast you know they like to grow those berries Yeah, I can see the Washington State area. They're pretty eclectic. We've got our own berry. Thank you. I wonder if they grow the lingonberries.
    53:43
    Lingonberry. You've never heard of that, huh? No, that sounds familiar. Yeah. Regionally, oftentimes served with fried herring as well. The lingonberry jam. Lingonberry jam on the Swedish meatballs at IKEA A+. Listener, if you love you some IKEA meatballs, I can't be the only one. message us at the pinball network at gmail.com turning down this week is not lingonberries it's dangleberries a mutant turtleberry that's tmnt le's are in the downward trend damn it here goes my tmnt machine it's not bolted at least you got the important part out of the way yet again dropped that you owned an le oh you i'm just trying to be descriptive for people you always take issue with that you're always saying i'm flexing because you constantly there's no i don't know what he's referring to is i made a simple remark after watching the latest straight down the middle video the this or that where there were all these various matchups and i like the this or that so i watched the whole thing oh sweet and yeah that's my favorite type of straight down the middle video and but during all of it girl greg's thinking zach every single time has to say i own all these i own all these as an le flex though i own all these i have i have all these i have all these as well i was telling the viewers like well would i rather have pirates or would i rather have three games because i normally prefer quantity over you know it's quantity over quality and then zach's like i own them all i own them all i own everything. Have you seen my collection? Have you heard that they're all LEs? Have you heard? LEs by the now. I got toppers for them all too. Did you know about that? Even toppers that haven't been released yet. I'm important. Some people are in this hobby to flex. I get it. I wasn't flexing. I get it. Flex master. I think Greg feels like, holy crap, was I pinned between a bicep and a forearm here because I feel like I got flexed on. No, it was simply to let the viewer know I like these all so much That's why it's difficult to pick. I own them. Thus, I like them. So it's difficult for me to pick. That's all. I'm sure the listeners will agree with you and not with me. I wish I could flex my boobs, though. Ever seen them boob flexers? I'm sure they're going to agree with you. See, I'm trying it right now. I don't have any boob to flex. I want to be able to flex a boob.
    56:13
    I bet Eric Menier's got flexing boobs. He's a muscle man. We should do that next time. You and I. Boob flexing contest. Oh, no. Can we get through this segment? I just picture you taking off your shirt and being the most ripped fucking guy in pinball. Like, you're just hiding it. Even I would be turned on you taking off your shirt. Sorry to get through this without lifting the table. Also trending down this week is, oh, this one's precious. This one's precious. Listener, we've got a new segment from another pinball podcast. Kind of like a market trends. I thought it was precious. It was Canada's pinball podcast. They made a very cute attempt at Pinball Market Trends. They even used the term Buy of the Week. Broad. That's a phony. That's a generic form of the Trademark Market Trends. Tally the votes.
    57:06
    Nice try, Kaneda, but it was complete shit. Sell, sell, sell. There's some things that you can venture into. That one, man, I've got that road paved in gold, baby. you can try but you're just going to get my horse manure you'll step in it hopefully you're wearing socks oh and everybody's favorite deals up i don't know do it do people like deals of the week better or deals of the what the whole which one is it yeah the wtf yeah i've never heard anyone say they like you doing deals of the week that's never been a thing really let's do it anyway this week there is a it's got to be sold by the time you guys listen to this a jurassic Park Premium on Pennside. I'm going to pull that right now. There it is. So we go right over to Norfolk, Virginia. Matt Sturt on Pennside. I like his avatar. It's a Gandalf. But he is selling a Jurassic Park Premium. He or she. He's got the little boy avatar, so maybe a boy. Excellent condition. Manufactured this year in March. Only 500 plays. It's even got a fence upgrade. It's got the vinyl art on the sides. And a few other minor mods.
    58:17
    Again, listener, these pins are $7,600 to $7,800 new. $6,000 is all he's wanting for this. Buy, buy, buy! Dennis, that's the deal. I can see you owning this pin. The only caveat is trending down this week, pickup only. If you're ready to go to the beach over in Virginia, go over there, bring cash. That's free cash, but look, he can set this. If it's only $6,000, That's at least $500 cheaper than it should be. If it does pan out and it is perfect like he's saying, he can set the pickup only cash thing because it's worth it. This is a steal of the week.
    58:58
    This is a buy of the week. Buy of the week. He's getting his things mixed up. Buy, buy, buy and deal of the week. They're separate. Buy, buy, buy of the week. Might be on to something. Venturing on through our market trends here, we've got a beautiful little deal of the don't try to out market trends me this week we're going to be looking at a all this shit complete and utter fecal patrick o'malley on pinball for sale on facebook dennis out of daycob decob illinois shit he's close enough to punch me in the face next time he sees me. Up for sale is a Stern Walking Dead Pro. You've got one yourself, Dennis. I do. Care to share how much you paid for that? I believe it was $4,200 plus shipping. Oh, nice job. You did really well on that. So everything has been gone over, it says. And anytime somebody says everything's been gone over, I'm no longer thinking it's a home user. So we'll keep that in mind. It's working 100%. It's a newer Stern. Okay. This was from Stern's second build of this title It's old regardless So who cares This is a machine that's been used commercially And has normal wear and tear By the out-hold kicker Fine as long as the price reflects that I'm good with that If you want some routed piece of shit Both sides of the head of the machine Do have small scrapes in the decal Oh boy It's not really noticeable I just wanted to note it Game can be put on coin play or free play Well, that's good. Right, Dennis? Nice to know that that can be. Yes, if you want to route it. It doesn't include the bill validator, though. So keep that in mind, listener. It's been extremely reliable. This sounds more like he's selling livestock than a pinball machine. I've never heard livestock described as reliable. The steer's reliable. She's good reliable. She's got a lot of miles on her. Have you ever worked a farm? She's been rowed hard and put up wet, if you know what I mean. That means no. But have you ever squeezed a teat? I think I have. It's been reliable. We're the only owner of this machine, even though thousands of people have molested it. We're the only operator that's owned this machine. What the hell does that even mean, Dennis? One owner. One buyer, I guess. One operator. Then, so this is fine, right? If this is a $3,000 pin, this is fine. He said, I'm not going to respond to lowball offers. does he realize that's when people lowball offer him just out of spite that's where we're at in our society we're gonna sell this kind of mean to do that's people it's humans we're gonna sell this machine people to put funds towards a new pinball machine we're looking for thanks bud don't give a fuck if we don't get what we need we'll just put it back out on location as it's location ready and it's a great earning machine still call him bullshit because if it was that creative machine that's earning that well it's still having a location you wouldn't be selling this is all bullshit if you got any questions feel free and ask pat at star worlds arcade six thousand dollars sell sell sell come on pat i like the part where you flexed on people who buy routed games for six thousand dollars yeah i will flex in boobs all day long look because here's the deal here's my new biden uh man here's the deal i hope biden i hope he presents with some type of thing that i can use but here's the deal whenever you get a routed game you're you're not usually saving enough money for it to make sense from what i've seen on a public advertisement perspective right spoken like a distributor i don't sell walking deads but if i do they're going to be home use only and beautiful yeah six thousand dollars nope what the fuck are you thinking i've seen premium walking debts for cheaper than six thousand dollars and they were home use only get out and that was your pinball market trends no drama edition right well it depends if he listens or not oh o'malley man yeah or kaneda well you know kaneda listens drama free edition that's how we like it here at the pinball show that's how I like it for your mama I never request no drama ever you love the drama I think like the person that loves the drama yes alright Dennis now that people are at full arousal after that market trend segment I wanted to put this before we end the show because we've got some big gaming news this week. Maybe not pinball gaming, but gaming in general. Is that correct? Yeah.
    64:02
    This is an unusual topic for you to bring up here. PC lover. I can already sense it. I can already sense it in your tone. But we're going to talk about, really quickly, the next-gen console launches that are going to be done this week. I think the Xbox debuts Tuesday, if I'm correct. Am I incorrect or correct? I actually don't know the specific release dates. I've already been seeing people posting images on Reddit of having games. I don't know how many were reviewers versus everyday folk. Why don't us pinball reviewers get that same luxury?
    64:37
    Well, it's probably difficult to send a review copy of a pinball machine. Sure it is. Just send the damn thing down here. I laid it out for you. Well, hey, I mean, didn't Kevin Manning get... I mean, they sent him the Guns N' Roses early. Yeah, but he's a sponsor.
    64:52
    Yeah, but he was the one doing the... So, like, that was the thing. Yeah, we're getting close there. My layup for you right there, Dennis, was because you don't get millions of fucking views, Zach. Now shut up and do your stupid segment. No, I mean, that's just pinball in general, though. That's not anything that you did wrong. No. You're feeling awful generous today. I like it. I'm being honest. This is the boob flexing thing that got you.
    65:16
    Yeah, it comes out November 10th for the Xbox Series X. God, what a shit name. Yeah, it's pretty confusing. Who thinks of that?
    65:25
    Marketing, I guess. I guess it's not just pinball that messes up marketing. Yeah, whoever was in marketing at Microsoft needs to be fired at Series X. That makes no sense. November 10th is when it comes out. For the most part, people had to have pre-ordered this. I don't even think with the times right now, Dennis, that they are doing much of the store launch things that Walmart is. but I believe that Best Buy may not be doing that. Target may not be doing that like you typically get with these console launches. Do you say console or do you say console? I say console. It bugs me when people say council. I've never heard anyone say that. I don't know if it's a regional thing. I've heard that before, and I thought, what? Then we've got the PlayStation coming up this week on November 12th.
    66:12
    Mm-hmm. Yep. Ooh. Which one does better? I think initially it's going to be really hard to tell because early adopters are going to jump all over this. A lot of people are going to buy both. Really? Yeah, they do it for the exclusives. On this console release, it doesn't feel like there are very many, if any, launch exclusives like we've seen in last releases. I think it's fair. Actually, I'm not buying one immediately because there's nothing there that tells me I should make the jump specifically. I mean, Halo's delayed a little bit. Yeah, and that was going to be the big exclusive on Xbox. Xbox doesn't have a first-party exclusive of Note at their launch. It's kind of a fail. Do you think it's because of a lot of the development during times of coronavirus? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's the same reason why Cyberpunk 2077 has been delayed yet again. Or do you think it's the excuse that they're giving? No, no, I think that the game wasn't ready. Coders work from home, don't they?
    67:16
    Not normally. Oh, okay. And so they've been trying to, but yeah, I think coronavirus is greatly responsible for a lot of software development falling behind schedule.
    67:27
    Unfortunate, but it's just, you know, I don't know. I mean, in terms of sales, Sony goes into the new generation with a lead on consoles. More PS4s were sold than Xbox Ones. So given that I would think Sony would probably by default have a lead but unlike the last gen and for that matter the gen before it both of the top tier models are the exact same price so there not a there was a hundred dollar discrepancy on the last gen so that was part of why ps4 sold better was you had to pay a hundred dollars more for a less powerful machine from microsoft this time microsoft is a slightly more powerful machine here yeah but but i mean all they all still do the same basic like the up to 8k resolution up to 120 frames per second we can't use that for a while right right but but just in charge so but looking at it you're mostly coming down to a little bit of difference on the cpu gpu performance but it's pretty slight so like i don't think someone's going to i've seen some of the load tests and yeah the xbox is loading games faster but they're both so much faster than the current gen that i don't think anyone's really going to be kicking themselves over it um now microsoft it's a strange strategy but they in addition to the series x they do have the series s yeah they do the iphone s thing both of these do yeah and that's a 300 console so that one is is significant that's easily the cheapest option um because sony has a diskless drive version of their ps5 for a hundred dollars less a very affordable option in gaming right so top tier is 500 the drive list version for sony is 400 and then the s version for microsoft is 300 and if you know that you're not doing 4k and you're going to just do 1080p tv then the s could be really attractive to you because you are saving a significant amount of money but who bought and that's the that's the big difference is it's not doing the 4k 8k but at some point all the tvs are going to be at least 4k so why would you i don't know i i don't I'll see. Spoken like someone who flexes. Oh. A lot of people don't. A lot of people who buy these consoles are working part-time jobs. A lot of them are teenagers. They can't afford a $500 machine. I know it's hard to imagine a mere half a topper, but that's how real life is. What's wrong with our society? A bunch of fucking slackers. Get out there and mow some lawns, you idiots. If you really want this stuff, get it done. It might be easier to mow their lawns and get the $300 rather than have to mow for two more months, especially somewhat challenging like in Kansas to mow lawns in November. Start slaying and vape. Isn't that what the high school kids do? Yeah. Figure it out. That's what I did in my life. So anyway, it's a money thing. There's a lot of it. And some people might have just bought a 1080p TV a year or two ago. And they're like, I'm not buying another TV for eight years. Are you kidding me? I just bought this one. That's true. I mean, I only got my 4K TV two years ago, so it's pretty new to me. And I only have one 4K TV in the house. You got a 4K TV before I did, Mr. Flexer. It was a gift. Oh, Flex gift. It was a Flex gift, yeah. I want to get you a gift of Flex Seal for Christmas so you can seal a window screen in the bottom of a boat. I already have two cans of it in the garage. Does it work well? yeah better than that my pillow bullshit so when you aesthetics here I know you and Tony are not you guys are going to cover this stuff you've covered it a little bit but you'll cover even more you're not going to talk about aesthetics because that's just not your bag no one no one cares it's something people make fun of no one buys a console based off how it looks is that why the PS5 designed it to look like a spaceship PS5 designed to look like a router and the Xbox Series X is designed to look like a refrigerator.
    71:27
    A black Kenmore. In fact, Microsoft leaned into that meme and they actually released a refrigerator that looks like the console. They sent one to Snoop Dogg and a couple other influencers, I think, got free ones. Full-size fridges, kitchen-size fridges. You think that guy on the motorcycle driving by is going to buy an Xbox or a PlayStation? He sounds like a PlayStation person. Fucking Windows 95 gamer. He's looking forward to Gran Turismo 7. Oh, yeah. Dirt 5. Yes. Okay, so what next-gen game interests you the most? Well, I mean, there's not a particular one that stands out. There's one that stands out for me for you.
    72:13
    Why? because I've heard you talk about the prior title with the company it's the one it's the my ignorance here is shining through but it's the Hell's Gate or it's the really impossible game oh the Dark Souls and I thought you've talked about Dark Souls before you liked I have I didn't like it I wanted I have Sekiro Shadows Die Twice but I'm not very far in it because it's too hard and the combat's different I try I buy games sometimes, and they just don't work out for me. Yeah, I mean, those are very popular. If you wanted that, I'd go with PlayStation because From Software has a stronger relationship with them. PlayStation.
    72:55
    While I'm not a specific title, I'm interested. I'll be getting, when I get one, I will get the Xbox. And the reason is that's the infrastructure I'm already invested in. It's fully backwards compatible, so I can put my current console away and just use the new one and still play my old games. and because they bought Zenimax. And so with Zenimax, that gives them Doom, that gives them Fallout, that gives them Elder Scrolls. And I don't know if they're going to allow those over on other consoles, but basically the best Western RPG companies, arguably aside from Bioware, are now in Microsoft's orbit because they've purchased the company. Of the key exclusives, the one I would be most interested in would probably be Halo Infinite because I want to see if they can salvage the damage they did to themselves with the last Halo game and actually make it interesting. I didn't even finish the campaign in the last Halo. Ouch. Also, if you like racers, Forza Horizon, that's the best racing game out there. Gran Turismo lost its luster over a generation ago. It's not as good. I don't think there's any good racers.
    73:56
    I'm not into the hardcore, authentic Forza Motorsport racing, but Horizon's fun because it's very arcade-y. It's an arcade-style racer. The big one with PlayStation, I think, would be the Spider-Man game, the Miles Morales game. Yes, the Miles, yeah. and they're going to have another Horizon game, and that did very well this last gen. I know a lot of people like hiding in the tall. If you want to hide in the tall grass games, then Sony is for you. I didn't realize how many different categories of games. I mean, the Assassin's Creed thing, everybody's waiting for the next gen version of that with the Viking stuff. Sure, and most of that stuff is third party and will be on everything.
    74:30
    Did you see the, real quick, did you see the teaser promo for the Black Ops Cold War? that looks insane it looks really good all right so i guess we were talking about demon souls ah yeah demon soul from software made that and then they uh i've never played it that was sony only and uh then they did three dark souls games so that's a trilogy and then i played the first one of those on the xbox and they're impossible right not impossible i mean they're very hard There's no difficulty toggle. It's just hard. I respect that. That's cool. And so I did go and win that. It took me over a year, though. Nice. And then they have another game called Sekiro, which is, again, it's really, really hard. Same sort of difficulty setup. But the way the combat works is different than Dark Souls. So it's a different setting. It's a different game. But it's still hard. Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Sekiro, they're all hard. They sound difficult. They are. I might not be able to. Part of it, maybe I'm too old to do Sekiro. I don't know if it's a dexterity thing. It's probably just most of these games come down to memorizing patterns. See, and I lost. I've lost that. We went to a barcade this last weekend, Fox and Friends. Yeah, Fox and Friends. So we went to the local barcade, and Fox was playing a Tapper.
    75:57
    Now, I've not played Tapper before. I know the premise of it But he said Watch me play a game and then I want to see you play So he was doing it I gotta tell you Dennis That seemed like the worst Waste of fucking time In my entire life I didn't play it Because after watching him I was so utterly bored That I thought this is why I don't do arcades This is excruciating It's nothing more than just Rapid speed and memorization There's nothing fun about that to me.
    76:31
    That's why I love it. He did a tapper flex on you. I guess. And then he's like, then you have to do this, but you've got to know this. But then if they're looking away at the girls, then you can't serve. I'm like, oh, I just want to flip her.
    76:46
    That's what makes me think pinball is a sport. E-sports my ass with video games. No fucking coding. Pinball is where it's at. Physical sport. It turned me off. You do know that eSports are against other human beings, so it's not predictable.
    77:04
    It's not you responding to an AI that's doing the same thing over and over. Still relying upon software to be true. You're still relying on software and a pinball machine. That's true. Be very careful. You're going down into... This is one of those elements where you're opening a realm where it's really obvious you don't know what you're talking about, and you're just making up stuff that you think sounds good. I did leave the arcade with one very appreciated game. and it was ice cold beer i believe with the the bar and the yeah i've seen it actually i think i've seen uh robert gag now play that now that that is a game actually takes skill oh sorry video game burners now this the spider-man really piqued my interest this miles morales because it looks phenomenal i'm a graphics whore i don't you know for what it's worth i don't know if that's even a thing nowadays but i want to be consumed with the look and the feel of a game more so than all the other stupid shit that like fortnite i don't care how expansive that bullshit is it's fucking ugly it's boring spider-man miles browns but i i'm am i correct this is like a patch an add-on this isn't even right right back in my day when new consoles came out you get new graphics and new games. Well, the patch will be new. The graphical fidelity is in that patch. Yeah, but it feels like it's been done. I want new. Well, you can wait for the next new game, but you'll be waiting.
    78:29
    So I listened to a Collected Gamers podcast. Looks like Cyberpunk's delayed it yet again. That looked like a cool game. But you're more of an Xbox person. When do you think you'll buy the new Series X? I don't know. And if so, you're not going to buy that bullshit watered-down version, right? No, no, no. I would get the X, not the S, yeah. Overall, is this a big leap forward in gaming? New consoles? Graphically, it will be. Game, like, playability, no. There's only tweaks to the controllers and stuff. It's not... A lot of that stuff's pretty figured out. Have people... Is it unanimous now that people prefer the Xbox controller to the inferiority of the PlayStation controller? It's not unanimous, but... Oh, okay. No. I wish it was, but... pretty sure it's that's pretty close to fact i think i mean i don't i don't there's a reason why like the steam controller looked like an xbox controller the nintendo switch pro controller looks like an xbox controller google stadius controller looks like there's a reason for that whatever happened to nintendo they're still they've got their switch out i mean it was like a mid generation release they did wii u and then they did switch after the ps4 and the xbox one came out so they're not ready to launch a new console they always feel like they're behind well they're not on the same cycle ever since the wii they're not they're not competing you wouldn't like them because they're not competing graphically with the with the main systems why don't they nintendo's a big brand they can sell a lot at a lower price to a lot of people and they're exploiting other things like the portability of their system wouldn't they make more money just shutting down operations on a console and selling all of their assets to uh creating gaming for a playstation or an xbox why haven't they done that um i wouldn't say that because my understanding is that purportedly nintendo has never lost like they don't they don't do lost leader tactics where they sell their console for less and try and sell games on the back end they make money on everything they sell it's always priced to make them money but don't they seem why aren't they wanting to be the cutting edge leaders the switch is really popular do why would you i mean okay it didn't hasn't sold as many as the ps4 but it also came out years later why would you i mean it's successful enough that they dropped their standalone ds line of portability now they have a console that is both portable and can hook to the tv and lots of people buy it because it's affordable so what Like, what are they doing wrong? Why should they topper that shit? Because I think they could sell a hell of a lot more Zeldas and Marios if they put it on a PlayStation or an Xbox. Sure, but currently those titles only being in the Nintendo ecosystem mean you have to buy their console, which they will make money on, if you want to play Zelda. That's true. If I want to play a video game right now, I'd probably buy a Zelda, and I'd buy the console that supports it. That's the question. That's the debate going on with Microsoft buying up all these companies. So they buy up ZeniMap. What's the smart move? Do you put out Elder Scrolls, a very popular Western RPG? That's what Skyrim is. It's an Elder Scrolls game. Do you put that out on the PS5 and make more money because you'll get all those people that bought PS5s buying your Elder Scrolls game? Or do you say, no, you will buy an Xbox, and now we'll make money on the Xbox that you had to buy because you can't say no to Skyrim 2, and we'll make money when you buy Skyrim? It depends on what your goals are, but I think the correct answer is you keep it exclusive. Exactly. And I think my guess will be – they've not commented yet on what they're going to do. My guess will be on things like that, they will keep it exclusive because in my mind, why did you spend billions of dollars on a company not to force people into your business? Well, but they're afraid that it's going to lose its luster unless you get it out to as many people as possible. Tell me this because I'm ignorant here. if I'm playing Grand Theft Auto on the Xbox online, can I play people in the PlayStation universe? No, Sony won't allow it. Generally speaking. The same program.
    82:32
    It's not just up to the software developer. It's whether or not people, whether or not the, it's called the walled garden, and whether people will allow, they either have a walled garden or they allow openness. On some things like Fortnite, there's been give okay and then on other things nintendo and microsoft will allow their gamers to play with each other but sony doesn't allow it and the software developers don't flex and say hey look either get in the same program on online online playability multiplayer of the whole universe or your platform is not going to sell our game um why would you as a software developer say oh yeah you'll do this or else we won't allow our game to be sold on the most popular console in the world why would you do that because you're trying to bring in an entire universe of people that are able to play with one another instead of i can only play with the xbox people or i can only play with the playstation people the uh survivability is more important than whatever kind of moral statement you're trying to make with that and a lot of these companies live game to game so it's just there have been companies that have pointed out like before fortnight allowed the cross play there was hey one time uh i think that i don't remember it was fortnight one of the companies accidentally quote unquote turned on flipped the switch that let everyone play with each other oh and then got reprimanded wow and and but so there have been companies that have gone and said yes it's that it's easy it's really is just like flipping a switch in the code we can do this we can allow the cross play and uh and on really really big titles that pull a lot of money like like fortnight it's been allowed but otherwise yeah sony has been reluctant because sony's got all the cards currently. They're the big dog. Everyone's already bought them. So they want you to play on their stuff because they make money every time the game is sold on their version. Well, to sum it up, it sounds like one of these software developers is going to have to have a good old big set of boysenberries to make some change instead of just chasing that dolla. Holla! See? How about that? An outside, such as myself, ignorant person of gaming coming in here and maybe I need to impart some new creative ideas into the video game realm. It sounds like you all need it over in the video games. A little stale, if you ask me. Shit, I've been going for 10 years and it's the same fucking bullshit.
    84:57
    Yeah, because pinball totally changed all of its nonsense in the last decade. Hashtag toppers are a fucking thing.
    85:04
    They were a thing in the 90s. They were a thing. Standardization in pinball is kind of a thing. Award shows and pinball is a thing. Pioneer, Dennis.
    85:15
    Pioneer. Okay. Let's wrap up the show. Where can people catch you talking about video games next week? You can always go to Eclectic Gamers Podcast. We're at eclecticgamers.com. You can email me eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com. Where you may or may not have a better video game discussion with Tony. Maybe. Eh. I don't know. We're going to talk about the consoles again because he and I aren't immediately buying them. So we've already kind of covered those topics. It's not what you want. It's the consumer. Did you get that reference? Do you know that movie? See? You always throw movies at me.
    85:55
    Please don't know it. Let's say I don't know it then. Thank God. Joe Dirt, baby. Dave Spade. Oh. I saw that once.
    86:05
    You can catch me straight down the middle. We've got something super exciting this next week. Follow us, like us on Facebook and YouTube, because Straight in the Middle is about to help launch not only a product, but a new company in pinball.
    86:22
    Hashtag, how about them apples? Some exciting stuff, so tune into that. You can also buy a brand new beautiful topper, or a pinball machine, I guess, if you need to put the topper on something, or an escalator stair climbing hand truck at Flippin' Out Pinball. That's flip the letter in out pinball.com or email me Zach at Z A C H at flip the letter in out pinball.com. Or you can text me, call me 8 1 2 4 5 7 9 7 1 1. A lot of new stuff in stock. I've recently stocked TMNT pros. Ooh. So if you're trying to find something to put that topper on, I do have some TMNT pros now in stock. Ready to go. Batman 66 still in stock. Got a couple left for the holiday season. And Avengers Pros. Still got a couple of those left. Most of these things that your dealers are going to have stock on, likely, as we get closer to the holiday season and in the holiday season, they're going to go pretty quick. I'm not trying to pressure you into buying something, but buy, buy, buy! Buy, buy, buy! All day long. TPN this week, we just had a final round that was really good with the return of Ryan C. and Marty together again. That was a lot of fun. We had a Joel Engelberth Given some reviews of He came down to my game room Played some games Gave some reviews of that And Steve from the Puppet Pals Messaged me And said he is working diligently To get a new released episode Up here very soon So expect that in February No judgment Typical to pinball Maybe Puppet Pals is the CGC pinball podcast Yes we're waiting for episode 2's Royal edition and then we'll put on episode 3 Oh very good So I don't know what we're going to get this week The Chronicles guys are probably Chilling out playing some new Star Wars comic pros We've got some new Stuff that we're working on for the streaming end George from Don't Pay Me Flip Is working really hard on that I don't know if that's going to be an end of the year thing or a beginning of the year thing And Dennis and I are working diligently For some other formatting stuff as well.
    88:34
    Exciting stuff. You've got to tune in. You've got to follow us on Facebook, on Twitch, on Twitter, on wherever else. Instagram. I think it's Instagram. Email us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. For Dennis Creasy, I'm Zach Mazey. And remember, if you need a working coin door, you can always go to Amateur Slimmer. And always practice safe pinball and hootay up. Love you, buddy.
    89:01
    And always pla... Plactus. I'm gonna plactus. Plactus the cactus. They were reenacting Dune. Tell them to run without rhythm.
    89:23
    Shia Halu's gonna gobble them up. They're not gonna have any kids. and then who will not help mo and not help put up your above ground swimming pool i think zach's one of those families that doesn't believe in chores that's that's the greg bone principle yeah he always does that to me he's always like we shouldn't do it we shouldn't make any kind of award ceremony live on twitch we shouldn't do it live at tpf we shouldn't do it and i'm like dude you're just fucking saying that because a you won't have to put in the work so that you're right. Or B, if you put in, or if we put into it and it fails, you can say you're right. Fucking Greg Bone principle.