Anybody got my sound? My sound choppy as well. It's a Jeff check sound. It's a Jeff check. Oh, that's because my CPU is overdriv. I think it's your website. Hold on. Ah, the Stumbler website playing non-stop animations was bricking my potato computer. Thank you for the check, everybody. How are we doing? Good now. This should be good. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, it's probably installing uh installing spyware on your machine. Yeah, Stumbler Mods brought to you by suspicious malware. [Laughter] Uh anyways, sorry. Thank you for that. Uh so yeah, you started when did the creature uh the actual creature mod start production? Your creature project? So that one So that one that was god probably seven or eight years ago now. Um and you know getting back to uh Mystery Castle. So I've played Mystery Castle. Have you played Mystery Castle, Jeff? Have you? I've seen it played. I haven't personally played it. Seen it played. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because it's a super rare game, isn't it? So, um, uh, so no, I'll I'll never I'll probably never produce them unless it's like just for fun. Um, because obviously it's it's too rare a title. Um, now working out what uh, so I've to be just released an Elton John mod. Let's look at that. So Elton John Yeah. How many units did Elton John move and how does that motivate you for I mean I'm going to guess probably I don't know thousand 2,000 the internet loves to do research chat chat how many can someone look up how many units Elton John moves so then it's more like so if you if you ever catch us at a show if you you catch me and Rob and bunch of other mod makers of the show this is the this is invariably going to be the topic of conversation where we all start trying to guess what the production numbers are were of particular games because obviously that's a that's a massive um driving factor for whether you choose to mod a game or not. Now it's obviously not the only deciding factor because that would be super boring and lame and you know money driven and all the rest of it. You know sometimes you just love a game and want to create a mod for it. And in the case of Elton John, that was certainly the case for that game. And it was a bit of a tentative sort of exploration into doing modding for JJP, which I've never done before. Was similar? Did any of the the systems like carry over easily from one from like your Stern stuff to that? Um, relatively, yes. But the the Elton sign that I did um was being driven just from a um like essentially what they call a WS2812 lighting strip. So it's like I'm afraid now. Let me know if it starts WS2812. Yeah. Yeah. So just I'm just sort of bring up the nerd but basically an LED strip. So if you think of an LED strip or an addressable LED strip, that's going to be generally WS2812. It's like the the you know the most popular sort of form of LED strips. Um so the what JJP tend to do for a lot of their signs is they run them all as essentially a big LED strip except that every sort of item on that sign will be like a single pixel on that LED strip. So pixel one, pixel 2, pixel 3. So in the case of this sign, those first five sort of lighting elements are five pixels on an LED strip. So the entire sign um is just run um directly from sort of 5 Vs ground and the data line of that of that sign. So I didn't actually find out whether um there were points that I could hook into in JJP games, but we've we've done similar investigations with uh other people, other customers. Um, and apparently there's heat. There's so many positions that you could look into in JJP games. It's not funny. There's like three in the back box and there's two in the cabinet and, you know, they're all 12vt lines. So, I think they're they're highly conducive uh, for modders actually who want to be playing games available for anybody trying to do it. For a lot of the consumer base, that's curious when you're going to be doing the black and white version of the Elton John sign. How like how long are we going to have to wait for that? for the black and white version, but there's no black and white version of the Elton John game, guys. So, uh you'll be waiting a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the the big talk is uh when the Who was talking about it? What game was it? Was it for Kong? Maybe. I think somebody was asking about the black and white version of Kong and when that was coming out. I'm sure that's what they were asking about. There's no way people are waiting. Wow. I feel like Stern has received enough feedback about when they should shouldn't shouldn't do black and white games that just doing it arbitrarily on every release is probably not the best idea. Probably not the right move to make. Yeah. I mean, I think that's why um Metallica was probably bad for them in some ways because it was a massive hit, right? So, because Metallica remastered was such a massive hit. They're going to be like, "Oh, we could do remasters of loads of games." So, we're I don't think we're looking at three cornerstone games a year anymore. I don't I think those days are done. I think they're going to do two two cornerstones and then a remaster every year if I if I had to guess, but we'll see. Yeah, I think that would be a good move uh on on their behalf. Um, but yeah, I mean it'll be interesting to see uh, you know, how how Harry Potter sells as well. Um, now obviously Harry Potter, you know, is being closely watched by mod makers as well. Um, you would expect it to be selling uh, a huge amount of uh, units um, based on the IP alone. Um, but the word is that Guns and Roses shifted 7,000 units back. Oh, really? Well, then they we did some math on that that they would need to shift about 5,000 units in order to recoup the purchase of a license cost. Um, but if you're saying that they made 7,000 units on G&R, then I don't see that being a problem with Potter. But we'll see. It needs to be a good game first, I would imagine. Unless people are just going to GNR was a different time, though, too, wasn't it? Like when G&R came out, it was like, you know, pinball was really in a golden era. Um, you know, less were still being purchased to flip. Um, you know, it was it it was a very different time. Um, I I'd be surprised if they'd go over G&R numbers on Harry Potter, but I guess we'll see. I think they I think they released I think they were still releasing their sales figures at the point where GNR came out, whereas they're not releasing them anymore. Um, so Howard has a question. Sorry. Go. Yeah. Go on. Uh, we're playing the Zoom delay latency game. By the way, anybody watching this and wondering why people talk over each other on a podcast, it's because there's about 5 seconds of latency. Those who don't know, uh, Dave, you're located in the UK. Uh, so if you buy a Stumbler mod, it comes it comes from overseas. But you you are not from the UK. You are you're an Aussie just like uh just like um David from uh Barrels. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yep. Yeah. Uh, pinball's very big in Australia. Um, so, you know, I cut my teeth over in the pubs over there. I think Theater of Magic was the first game that truly got me hooked. Um, and after that it was Creature. Um, which is the reason why I sort of came back to it later on in life. But yeah, I'm from um from Australia, but been living in the UK for the last 17 years. Not that you can tell from my accent, which is No, not even a little not changed. Even my family are just like, nope, hasn't changed. So Howard asks, "How much crossover is there from the VPIN community to modding such as LED strips and stuff like that? Is the does the VPIN software communicate in a in a format that you could put physical stuff in the cabinet?" Great question. That's a that's a really great question. Um there is a fair bit of crossover actually. Um, so projects like pin to DMD, which is a um essentially an opensourceish, it's not really open source, but a communitydriven um color DMD clone, I suppose you'd call it a clone, but that started out in the VPIN um scene as a way of um as a way of essentially having color DMD um for VPIN games. Um, and so all the colorizations started out as VPIN colorizations and then they thought, hey, we can take this into the real pinball arena and and that's why we now have pin to DMD um on real pinball machines. Um, likewise actually colored those for a while. He was responsible for doing the colors and the technology that that that stuff works on is pretty fascinating. It basically scans to see what frame it's at and then looks at what the coloring should be. So sometimes you'll get frames where they're not colored correctly and all of a sudden the color slaps onto it because it's it's currently doing its little thinky ding trying to figure out what frame it's supposed to be coloring or what what frame it's looking at. Yeah. Yeah. It is it is absolutely fascinating and it and not only that but an absolute monumental amount of work. So, if you ever talk to a colorist, anybody, then please buy them a beer and say how much you appreciate the work that they've done because um you know, it's hours and hours and hours of really boring, painstaking labor um just so that we can all enjoy you know, white water with with extra blues, you Well, and to your point earlier where you were talking about doing it cuz you liked it versus it making money, most of the people that do the color DMD colorizations own the games and want the color DMD for their games. So, they're not really artists. They're they're just fan. They're super fans. I mean, we're all we're every pinball person's a super fan to a degree, I suppose. Y Yeah. and we we produce those pin to DMDs uh commercially um and pay uh a donation to the to the colorists every time we use one of because that's the new relationship that we're all sort of working under and I I love doing it. Um but it's you know it's like 20 20 bucks or something per game sold or something like that. So this isn't huge money uh you know it's it's a little bit of pocket money for those guys you know um every time their colors get used and they thoroughly thoroughly deserve it. So yeah, anybody who's um using their stuff, make sure you um tell them how much you love them cuz they're they're great dudes, all of them. Um Oh man, this question is too good. Okay, I was going to say just one more one more aspect of the BPIN crossover is Pinm as well. So Pinm is the uh core software that uh interprets the ROMs of a historical pinball game and converts it into a format that can be then turned into a virtual pinball machine. It's called pin mame. So in much the same way as mim is a multiarch arcade machine emulator. Yeah. Okay. So pin mame is like a way of interpreting pinball roms in the same way um and converting them into vpin um software. Now pinm is used in I think uh do I don't I'm not sure whether fast use it um in their board sets um to interpret old ROMs. I think maybe they've done it a different way now. Um, but certainly there's a whole bunch of CPU emulators that are now running Pin Mame as well. Um, and likewise there's a there's some movement as well into pinball manufacturers using virtual recreations of the games as they're coding. So that you don't actually have to have a real pinball machine beside you as you're as you're working through the code. you can have it set up in a virtual environment, test all the shots, jump to a section in the code or whatever in much the same way as you would do any coding. Um, but doing it all completely within a virtual environment, which will massively speed up uh production of code. Um I'm not sure how many of the companies are doing that yet, but it's certainly possible um uh with uh you know you know using uh VPX uh and uh pinm and and software like that and um and yeah you know I think all of that stuff is shared you know across those boundaries. I think fans of one thing will generally be fans of the you know fans of virtual will be fans of real as well and there's a lot of crossover. So yeah, I haven't heard of a lot of people that are bagging on virtual pin in recent years. Like we are I don't stream virtual pins, but I have nothing against it. And I think virtual pinball is just as much real pinball as anything else, especially with the how prohibitively expensive most games are. Um, we have a lot of fans of virtual pinball on the channel. Uh, so yeah, it's cool to see the people working hard in the mod community in those realms are pushing it to try to I don't know, make a relevant crossover where the the line of of hardware and software for those games is going to be more and more blurred. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think discounting and, you know, certainly there's a lot of pinball people who do discount it outright and just say it's not real pinball. It's it's a piece of [ __ ] It doesn't feel right. Whatever. Um, I think that is ignoring a lot of very very smart people and some amazing work that they're doing. Um, and you would do it to your own detriment because, you know, if you don't keep an eye on that stuff, you won't see some of the amazing progress uh, and work that they're doing and how that can be used in real pinball. Um, for the reasons I've just make wild decisions because you don't have to worry about whatever prototyping or building white woods for it and let it rip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a lot of really exciting uh stuff that could be used uh in real pinball uh more than it is too. Sure. So, Indie Arcade Wave asked this question. I think this is pretty uh un unrelated to my notes, but an excellent question. So, he's like, "Now that you're being confident with mods, have you ever thought about making a homebrew?" A starter home. Oh, boy. Wouldn't that be awesome? I mean, I would I would love to. Um yes, 100%. I think there's not a pinball player alive who hasn't dreamed of making their own pin, is there? Uh, you know, if anybody has not thought about what would make a good pin, then I question your commitment to this hobby. Um, yeah, man. I I've got I've got a ton of ideas, an absolute ton. Um, and a couple of a couple of absolute crackers, too. I mean, everybody thinks that their idea is the best idea since sliced bread, but um I would absolutely love to do it. Um I don't think that it's physically possible for me to do it currently just um because I'm just 24 hours slammed at the moment. Um the list for back orders for your stuff is enormous. Is there ever a time where you look at the numbers of how many units need to ship for all of the different products and you're just like, "Oh my god, what am I doing?" The trick is not to think about it too much, man. I've got to say, like, you just you have to just you have to have the blinkers on and just uh get busy. It it it is a lot sometimes. Um particularly when you're the kind of person who likes to take on projects, too. So, somebody comes to you and they've got an awesome idea, an awesome opportunity, um, and you're kind of just like, I really want to work on that. And so, you just say yes, and you'll be like, I'll be fine. Um, and then you find yourself in this position where there's just physically not enough hours in the day to get everything done. Um, and I would I would have to say that I'm probably pretty close to that at the moment. you know, it's a case of staying up late and waking up at 5 to respond to emails and do things like that and then get to work and then try and prioritize as much as possible and try and delegate to the people who work in the workshop as well. And for most of the part that works fine, but um but you know, it's always a learning process too when you get it wrong and you're always going to get it wrong. Um, so you know, getting back to the original question of building my own pinball machine, I would absolutely love to and I firmly believe that one day I will. Um, but it'll have to be sort of when I hit semi-retirement, whenever that is. And you know, in much the same way as um, you know, you know, I'm just not I'm not playing enough pinball either, which is a which is a big problem, I think. Um, just because it's always work and it's not enough playing. and I try and do as you know more playing um you know I try and set time aside for that because I think it's a really really important facet of building mods is actually being a hobbyist as well. Um I don't believe that you can be one without being the other effectively. Um but still it's it's not really enough to uh get get the job done. It needs to be you know I need need to be playing more than I am. Isn't it kind of scary when you start taking on a hobby more as an occupation? And like the fear the fear of like losing the interest in the hobby because you you spend so much time doing it as a job is I don't think something that a lot of people think about before diving in. You just get consumed by it and then realize afterwards you're like, "Oh [ __ ] like I just spent 10 hours working on." Yeah. And that's you know that is a that is a scary thing I think. Um, I mean, fortunately, uh, you know, I I do love the hobby and love creating mods so much that even though it is intense and stressful and complicated, um, I still really really get a buzz out of it, you know, like when you, uh, receive a lovely email from someone who's just absolutely buzzing on an install that they've just done and they can't believe how good it looks or whatever. And and look, sometimes you open emails with trepidation. You're thinking, "Oh god, what's it going to be now?" or whatever. And then you get an email that's just like, "Hey man, just wanted to get in touch to tell you how much I'm really enjoying this and you know, keep up the great work and everything you're doing for the hobby." And that's it. And you're just like, "Oh, it's so nice." you know, it's just like, you know, as a shout out to your own customer service, uh, you know, I I admitted full-fledged in an email when I installed my, uh, Subway or I guess it was the noodle shop mod for it that, uh, when I had returned it, you know, I didn't it wasn't on the magnet or it was on the magnet thing. So, it had like impacted it going back into the playfield on Godzilla. And so, it like took out one of the LEDs on the top of it. And I emailed you and was like, "Hey, man. I put this back in. I'm a dumbass. It broke the board. Like, one of the LEDs is out." and you sent me a new board just like that. It was shipped out the next day. So, you know, I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thanks, man. Look, I mean, I I don't believe the customer is always right. Like, you know, some sometimes people go, "The customer's always right. You just got to make the customer happy and that's fine." Like, I don't necessarily agree with that because, you know, you I've had some horrible people and few and far between. one or two maybe and I I could probably remember them you know now I could remember their names but you know some people are just in in you know horrible and I think that some in in those types of situations I'm just like look man full refund you know uh we I won't send you any more mods we'll just call it a day you get your full refund so that you're cool I'm cool and we just won't work together again you know like that's how I deal with those situations but literally everybody else you know it doesn't matter whether it's your fault or um or whether you're the the next buyer of the mod from somebody else. So, you know, it's been an indirect sale, um, or a double indirect sale or whatever it is, as long as you're a cool person and you're kind and honest or whatever, then, you know, I'll just, you know, I I believe that that aspect of it, that that level of customer service when, you know, somebody's a hobbyist and, you know, you didn't mean to do it and, you know, you uh, you know, in you could look at that particular thing as a failure of the design that it, you know, it shouldn't be capable of breaking in that way. Um, so you know, in terms of sort of replacements, we've got a pretty uh strong policy of just sorting people out regardless of of what the cause is. Um, and uh, you know, it's obviously something I try and reduce as much as possible because it does eat a lot of time um, you know, servicing sort of that that aspect of the business. Sure. Working on new developments and new products. It's easy for people to get uh like I think people are so accustomed to dealing with like faceless corporations and channeling their anger of customer service on that that it's easy to forget that not all companies are that and sometimes they're just small mom and pop shops and you know people working in their workshops and that when you mouth off and try to vent all your rage because of something that occurred you're you're not really helping yourself solve that problem. No, no, no, no, not at all. And um and it does surprise me too because uh you know as as pinball hobbyists like you have to live around failure like constantly. You know, everything's breaking or failing or not working properly. You know, you have to have the glass off and you have to have the hood up and you have to be problem solving constantly. And and you know, while too much of that can be frustrating, um it's it's also probably partly the reason why we do enjoy doing what we do because, you know, there there's also a buzz in solving that kind of problem. You know, when you fun, man, tinkering is like the best part of the hobby except when you have to take the glass off for the fifth time cuz you forgot like a screw or didn't put a rubber back on. And at that point, you're just like, "Fuck it. I'm going to go have a beer. I'm done." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what the worst balls in? I've done that. People forgetting to take the balls out, man. Forgetting to take the balls out. Um, and I don't care how long you've been doing this for, you're still going to forget to take the balls out, you know? I still forget to take the balls out. So true. From time to time. Yeah. All right. So, so when people are getting into making mods, right? So, do you do you prototype your stuff in like Solid Works, for example? Like what is your technical production method? like where do you start when you're making a mod? Ah, where do I start when I'm making a mod? Um, so it's changed over the years from time to time. I mean I I so I use Fusion as my main um 3D rendering CAD tool. Um Rob uh who who's at TP who I do the pod with, he uses Solid Works. So Solid Works is also a very good bit of software. Um but I use Fusion just because that's what I know. Um, and it's changed uh over the years exactly what I do. But what I tend to do nowadays is um, quick shout out. Tap's going to be on the podcast too in the future. He does amazing toppers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rob's Rob and Alec are both awesome dudes, man. Very close friends of mine and and you know, they're great great people to work with. Very professional. Um, so this is this is something that I'm working on for Kong. Um, and like obviously doesn't look like much right now, right? because where where's my camera? Because it's just like it's just a chunk of plastic. So, all I did was I think I modeled this up this morning just based on the area. So, I took a couple of measurements. I took a measurement of the plastic, traced the plastic, tried to work out where the screw holes were, tried to work out what the general sort of shape of the area was. Um, and then and then uh uh you know got that into the CAD program and designed it all and uh got the dimensions all and then and then printed it this afternoon. Brought it back in tonight before the pod and then just fitted it into the game and realized it was too wide. The ball path through there needed to have an center taken off. Um because obviously if you don't have the the CAD files for the game um how are you supposed to line stuff up, right? You just kind of from the hip shoot. You kind of you kind of just have to do it that way. And you know, you take measurements and um uh you know and and you'll generally be pretty close and taking uh you know, tracing plastics and doing things like that um certainly really helps in that regard. Um but ultimately you just have to print some stuff and fit it in the game and see where you need to take some uh take some of the edges off and stuff. So as you can see, I got this one completely wrong. I don't know what I was doing today. I think I was busy. So what I you can see that that whole area there. So I got that completely wrong. I don't know what I was thinking. The wood cutter mark for get rid of it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I use like a gold pen. Yeah. And then I'll go home tonight. Um take some more measurements from this uh change that design, do another print, take it back in tomorrow. And if it generally looks like the right shape, then I'll uh then raise it to the level it needs to be because it's going to go up from that point. And then start thinking about where circuit boards are going to go. Start thinking about where um cable lines are going to need to to go um for power. um whether the controller board cuz there's always uh for my stuff there's always a a controller that does all the software and all the lighting patterns and all the sensing. Um whether that's going to be in the mod itself or whether it's going to be in a secondary board below the playfield because this one's not very big. Um it'll most likely be somewhere below the playfield. Uh and then it's and then it's sculpting. So either I'll do the sculpting in Zbrush um or I'll uh use a freelancer or a number of freelancers to work on the sculpts. Generally, if it's more figurative stuff, um I'll get a freelancer to do it because usually they're better positioned for doing that kind of stuff, more more artistic. Um and you know if anybody wants to engage with freelancers to do similar stuff then Fiverr is a really good resource for finding people. Um my recommendation there is to find people quite close to home for you um just because your uh time zone differences will be um better. You can always get on the phone to them and explain things. There'll be less language barriers, that kind of thing. So, you know, if you're doing a search on Fiverr, um make sure you do a search for designers that are sort of within, you know, your country or your area. Um and then and then just go from there really. I mean, uh you know, in in terms of circuit boards and lighting, you know, you can do very simple stuff uh like just tying into uh inserts or the GI uh for your lights. you know, comets uh sell some fantastic products uh just for tapping into those kind of things if you want sort of that level of interactivity or if you want to go higher levels of interactivity. You know, I've built uh freeboards uh for other mod makers that they can use to do sort of just uh like a timer on a light so that if a switch gets hit, a timer will turn on for 10 seconds and turn a light on for 10 seconds. Or you can go the whole hog and do, you know, crazy lighting patterns that emulate fire or water or rainbows or whatever really, you know, which some of those presets are programmed into your uh Wi-Fi boards. Yeah. If you want to go that direction, give us a call. Yeah. the uh it's it's wild to me how much of like an artistic merging there is for the mod making for this type of work because it really is like a technical thing that is also very artistic. Um I was talking with Bowen about rule design too and I think that's one thing I love so much about pinball is that it really is kind of like a synergistic like marrying of mechanical design and artistic kind of like design as well. Um, yeah. Do do you manufacture your stuff is is resin printed, right? I feel like it's it's not uh it's all over the shop really. So, we use we use uh like literally all over the shop. So, we use some PLA um uh which is just you know filament print 3D printed filament for those who don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So, any Yeah. So, anybody who's got a home 3D printer um they'll be using uh either PLA or or some other derivative. Uh but it's called filament printing. It's just the one that you the general one that you see. Um, but it won't be for any parts that are visible to the eye, if you know what I mean. So, um, generally it's it's not really of a good enough quality to have it as the only thing. Um, although I have, you know, like the the quality level of parts um, and printers is getting better and better. Um, and I received uh one one mod last night which I featured on the pod that was definitely PLA printed and you could not tell it was absolutely gorgeous. So, you know, the the lines are getting blurred in that regard, but generally I I use I mean PLA is quite tough so I'll use it for quite functional parts like like gearing and racks and things. Um, so the theater building that I'm doing that's got like a collapsing wall. Um the wall itself is is nylon um a technology technology called PA12 um which is just very beautiful and and um tough uh and you can't see any print lines. So, the Tokyo Neon uh black outer shell is PA12 uh nylon. Um but the the gearing system that lowers the wall in the theater is PLA. Um just because it's it's really strong. Um and then the for the buildings on Tokyo Neon, they are initially uh resin printed on a 3D resin printer. Uh, and then we go at them with a Dremel to give them some decay and destruction. They're then cast in silicon and then resin uh resin cast um to get the final parts and then painted dry brushing and things over the top of that. That's then mounted onto a PA12 frame and then the circuit boards and everything uh gets stuffed into the internals and all wired up to everything. And do you have a education in material? I mean like this is a lot of knowledge that goes into knowing what will and won't work for what kind of problem you're trying to solve per mod. Yeah. Like what is what is your traditional background? Programmer. Computer programmer. Yeah. Yeah. So circuit board design um and materials and engineering even are all things that I've sort of had to learn on the hoof. Um if there's a c certain process or whatever that's sort of outside of my skill set um then we've sort of got subsidiary companies around the place that we work very closely with um that can assist in that regard. So, we've got a guy up in the Midlands um who's been working with us for, you know, a couple of years now, um who, you know, has got people on his staff that can do sculpting work, who can do, uh, you know, cast resin sort of things. Um, and likewise suppliers in India that we've got who can do vacolding. So, um, you know, this workshop is probably only big enough for three or four people to work in at any one time. We certainly don't have any big machines. All my printers are at home. Um, you mentioned a medium tour. Did you want to show people around a little bit with the mobile cam? Let's do it now. Yeah. All right. Melody says, "Thanks, Dave, for sending the UFO sensing board and then asking when the middle middle building for Godzilla is coming." Yeah, I gotta be honest, Dave. The only reason I asked you on here was so I could try to earn some good you know, good karma and getting myself moved up the list. That's actually not true. Not happening, Jeff. Not happening. Um, yeah. Well, look, this is the theater building. We've been working on these um today. So, yeah, if you're watching this on the audio podcast later, I urge you to check out the YouTube so you can see what you're actually looking at. And there's a little fire emblem that like sticks out too when it when it lowers, right? I don't know if I can quite show you that yet because we haven't mounted that. Yeah. So, this is the um So, oh, it'll get blurry if I take it too close, but this is the wall that drops and then essentially this fire sticks out the side of the building and it's all flaming with it with an LED strip that you can see it's all connected up there. Um, and that's the gearing system that I was talking about earlier. There's a servo uh there and the PLA gear. And this is a rack. I think they call it rack and pinion um uh linkage. And that's all connected up to essentially a lolly board in here that that does all the Do you mechanically test these to determine how many kind of like uses they'll be able to go through without failing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So you can sort of uh you just build a special firmware um that essentially just, you know, draw abuses out of it. Yeah. And then you just then you just leave it in one corner of the workshop for a week and see what happens. It's like having a six-year-old in the corner play with your pinball machine, right? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. They'll very quickly work out uh Yeah. where all the stuck balls go. Yeah. Um so yeah, so theater's coming. Um, now I just need to try and work out because what I need to do is potentially Melody's also asking you have a app out now for I'm guessing iOS and probably other platforms. How is that planned on being integrated with the with your future mods? Well, it's automatic with the future mods. So this Okay, so um so the legacy mods are running a certain controller and all of the modern mods are using a new controller called the ASP32. Now that's the controller that's compatible with the new app. Um it's far and away a better user experience. Um which is unfortunate in in some ways because it means that whatever the user experience was before, it's not as good as what it is now. Sorry. Sorry. In before in before new UI, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, we do have a solution for that. You can convert the older mods to use the new app by by using like a little converter board, which is this guy here. So, this is called one app, and you sort of just plug it into the header of the legacy mods, and it will enable you to use the new app. Um but uh yeah the the new Bluetooth app which is iOS, Android and on the web um is far and away a better system. It's written in React Native um which is a fully modern um piece of software. It enables me to you know it sounds lame but spread my wings uh in terms of the programming. I was always a little bit restricted with how things were previously because um you were essentially set uh you were essentially serving static web pages with jQuery underneath the hood but it wasn't very sophisticated. It wasn't very reactive. Um I couldn't do very much uh without creating bugs and it was very difficult to test things like this. Using React Native, it's just a lot smoother process for creating a lot better apps. So the experience overall is just far far better. I don't think that's lame. I think that it shows that you actually give a [ __ ] about your products and that you're trying to expand their usability to be less cumbersome through new technology that's more accessible. Yeah. Um yeah, we've actually got we've actually got Melvin to thank for that. Like Melvin was the one that suggested that we should head in that direction when um when that Alice project came about. So really it was uh it was him that sort of pushed for it and I'm so glad he did because it was the right move for sure. I had I had one question before that but I guess you already you already mentioned Alice so we kind of got to jump into that. So if you don't know it was announced by Dutch Pinball that Stumbler is essentially now kind of like the official sculpt producer slash like playfield techn mod technology uh partnership with them. Can you can you talk a little bit about what what that means for your relation with Dutch? Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Melvin and I have known each other for ages. Um, we worked on Funhouse 2 together as testers. Um, and this was pre sort of Stumbleore blowing up days. Um, and obviously before he was sort of doing a lot of work. We were essentially both just hobbyists who wanted to be involved in sort of a fun project with Pretty. So, we kind of met each other on that project and um, you know, got along really well, became friends. I sent him a couple of lollipops boards um because he was really interested in it. And then um and then sort of as he uh sort of and for anybody who doesn't know the sort of the backstory, Melvin bought a shipping container full of assets from the Deeproot uh liquidation sale. And that Deep Routt is Papa Duke's failed Kickstarter for everybody who isn't familiar. and they had a bunch of materials, art assets, and IP ownership. And it was kind of divided among most of the pinball companies. Turner picked up a few. That's where you see Merlin's Magic and uh the um god, what is it? Ninja Eclipse, among others. But uh you know, his Magic Girl IP and a bunch of other stuff. So that's that's what that is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think um so and I'm just trying to get the story right. So Melvin, I think, purchased those assets from Turner. Um, and those assets being um those assets being Alice in Wonderland, which was a essentially just a mockup sort of machine that Pubic put together. Um, it was uh atomic retro atomic zombies adventure land. It was magic girl and that might be it. I think if anybody in the chat knows if there was any others that I'm missing out on then. But essentially it was those and plus a whole bunch of J-pop sort of personal items that that Melvin ended up returning to him actually. Um and uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like his laptop and it was like I think his like his some some of his kids stuff and Yeah. stuff like that. Like having some of your kids stuff inside of a large shipping container. That's that's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bit bit weird. Um Melvin has always been a lover of weird and rare pinball machines, you know. Uh to give you an indication like was is his favorite game of all time. Um, so he's he's into that kind of whimsical weird uh nonlinear kind of or I guess non normal pinball machine. Sure.