Episode 410: Presidential talk with Josh Sharpe

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·35m 9s·analyzed·Nov 6, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Josh Sharpe discusses 2024 competitive pinball growth and tournament format innovations.

Summary

Jeff Lee interviews Josh Sharpe, Josh Sharpe, discussing the competitive pinball landscape in 2024. They cover the return of five majors for the first time, growth metrics (35,000+ unique players, 10,200+ events), tournament format innovations like the hybrid format, the Stern Pro Circuit, and personal anecdotes about Josh's son Colin entering competitive pinball. The conversation reflects on major tournament organization (Pinberg, PAPA, EPC, IFPA Open, World Championships) and evolving standards for event quality.

Key Claims

2024 saw five majors return for the first time in history
high confidence · Josh Sharpe, Josh Sharpe, confirmed directly: 'Five is the max, I assume... first time ever. Crazy. It's pretty good.'
As of November 2, 2024, IFPA has recorded 10,206 total events (on pace to exceed 2023's 10,324)
high confidence · Josh Sharpe provided specific IFPA data: '2022 was 7,700. 2023 was 10,324. 2024 with two months to go is 10,206.'
35,000+ unique IFPA-registered players competed in 2024 (as of early November), up from just over 33,000 in 2023
high confidence · Josh Sharpe: 'Last year, just under 33,000. And this year, just over 35,000 with two months to go.'
Josh Sharpe son Colin is competing in pinball tournaments
high confidence · Jeff: 'I saw your son Colin play in a few tournaments, and he's really getting into it.' Josh confirmed and Colin was present during recording.
The Stern Pro Circuit consists of 20 events with a $5-per-player fee feeding a large prize pool for top 32 finalists
high confidence · Josh Sharpe: 'the Stern Pro Circuit is 20 events... There's kind of a $5 fee per player that goes into the big prize fund at the end, which usually happens in Chicago for the, in this year's case, top 32 players.'
The 'hybrid tournament' format is designed to balance fairness and skill measurement by requiring each player to attempt a fixed number of games (e.g., 4 attempts per machine) and use their best score
high confidence · Josh Sharpe explained via hypothetical: 'If we each play it four times and take the best score that we got. Does that seem like the highest quality... And that's hybrid.'
Zach Parks won back-to-back Expo Classics championships
high confidence · Josh Sharpe: 'back-to-back Expo Classics champ' (referring to Zach Parks).
Card-based tournaments have increased in prevalence but are generally viewed negatively by most players
high confidence · Josh Sharpe: 'last year we saw the increase in the value of card tournaments, and we saw a lot more card tournaments this year. And card tournaments suck for most people. They are not fun.'

Notable Quotes

“I have to speak the truth, man. That's how I roll.”
Josh Sharpe @ early segment — Reflects Josh's self-characterization as honest broker; sets tone for credibility on data/metrics
“I can see it starting to be formed and forged, and I just can't wait for it to present itself for the rest of my life.”
Josh Sharpe @ mid-interview — Josh expressing genuine enthusiasm about his son Colin's pinball involvement as a long-term hall pass from family
“We're in the gravy phase, Jeffrey. Way in the gravy phase.”
Josh Sharpe @ growth metrics discussion — Expresses confidence in competitive pinball's sustained growth trajectory
“Card tournaments suck for most people. They are not fun.”
Josh Sharpe @ format discussion — Candid critique of prevalent tournament format; justifies hybrid format introduction
“The stress level will fall in the middle. I literally had a zero-point game of King of Diamonds and just void and recued... there was zero stress, you know, because I could always just play again.”
Josh Sharpe @ hybrid format explanation — Personal anecdote illustrating psychological differences between tournament formats
“You paid $20 for a ticket to feel bad about yourself.”
Josh Sharpe @ format discussion — Quotes how players describe PAPA-style card tournament experience; captures stress/anxiety
“If people aren't having fun, they're not going to come back.”
Jeff Lee @ Stern Pro Circuit discussion — Articulates core principle driving tournament design philosophy
“I turn into a pumpkin at 10 p.m.”
Josh Sharpe @ endurance discussion — Personal observation about tournament fatigue and optimal play times

Entities

Josh SharpepersonJeff LeepersonColin SharpepersonEvan SharpepersonZach SharpepersonZach ParkspersonEscher LefkoffpersonElizabeth CromwellpersonDoug Polkperson

Signals

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community_signal: Josh Sharpe's son Colin entering competitive pinball scene alongside established cubing skills; represents generational pipeline and family-driven tournament participation growth
high · Josh: 'Colin has been really jumping in, like, full steam ahead at a rate that Evan is not currently.' Colin confirmed competing in tournaments. Jeff noted seeing Colin in multiple tournaments in 2024.
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competitive_signal: Introduction of hybrid tournament format as alternative to card-based and best-game formats; addresses player stress/fairness concerns; adoption rate TBD for 2025
high · Josh Sharpe: 'I think what we'll see with hybrid is not only will the data be more fair, but I think the stress level will fall in the middle.' Positioned as response to card tournament proliferation.
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market_signal: Five majors returned in 2024 for first time; represents stabilization and recovery of competitive calendar after period of contraction; expected continued growth in 2025
high · Josh: 'Five is the max, I assume... first time ever.' PAPA, Pinberg, EPC, IFPA Open, World Championships identified as the five majors.
?
competitive_signal: 35,000+ unique IFPA players in 2024 (vs 33,000 in 2023) with ~10,200 total events recorded by early November; both metrics trending upward; Josh confident 2024 will exceed 2023 total
high · Josh: '2024 with two months to go is 10,206... Last year, just under 33,000. And this year, just over 35,000 with two months to go.' Josh: 'I think we're going to pass last year. Probably this weekend.'
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business_signal: Stern Pro Circuit includes majors (controversial per Josh); generates discussion about point distribution parity between majors and standard circuit events; European events increasingly joining despite lower expected ROI

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.105

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It's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teels you can find everything on pinball profile.com we're on twitter x instagram at pinball profile a great facebook group as well you can email pinball profile at gmail.com and if you'd like to show your support in the show that would be wonderful don't worry it will always be free but it helps keep it going thank you very much to gme law to jc nick n john l fox cities pinball we appreciate it patreon.com pinball profile. So today they go to the polls in the United States of America. Democracy alive for at least another day or so. Not like the IFPA. Oh no. You've got somebody who wants to be the IFPA president. Work for you, the people. And then you've got the IFPA dictator. I kid, of course, but he is here today. The IFPA president, Josh Sharp. How you doing, buddy? Can I tell everyone when you're lying about the date. Can I do that? Go on. It's not election day. It's November 2nd, so there's five more days of crazy politic nonsense going on down here in the U.S. before everything you said is true. So there's your IFPA president right there giving you the honest truth. I have to speak the truth, man. That's how I roll. He gives you the truth. Just you see how weak his math is. There's only three days. Is that right? Yeah, it's Tuesday. Today's Saturday, so. Oh, man. For some reason, I had the 7th in my mind. Okay, well, me walking down to the polls on the 7th would have been nonsense. Well, anyway, you wonder who's managing your money, your dollar fees. I've never asked you to cut anything. Can I ask you to cut that? Oh. I'm just kidding. Josh, I got to see something I haven't seen in 2024, and it got me excited. because I see it with a lot of other pinball players and families and parents. I saw your son Colin play in a few tournaments, and he's really getting into it. How about that? That's pretty cool. Is it cooler for me or cooler for him? I think it's cooler for me. It's definitely cooler for you. It's exciting for pinball to see more kids get in, but for you, a guy who's always looking for a hall pass to get to go to a pinball tournament. I'm not. You can't rush these things, Jeff, but, like, the golden hall pass of hall passes. I can see it starting to be formed and forged, and I just can't wait for it to present itself for the rest of my life. Oh, yeah, and give Evan a few years to get a little older. Oh, man. Isn't Evan more into pinball? He is. Not as much lately. Colin has been really jumping in, like, full steam ahead at a rate that Evan is not currently. I think Evan's currently watching YouTube upstairs while I, like, leave a bag of food next to him so we can talk. So I think that's more his jam these days. Now, is Colin into pinball? Like, we know he's into cubing. In fact, the three of us were doing a stream. I can't remember where it was, but we watched Colin cube and stuff. But is he more into pinball just to hopefully get to be closer to and maybe even know his dad? It's kind of like the VJ Singh golfing, you know, on Father's Day. You know, the kid's like, who's this guy? Because he's always out golfing. Is this the same for you? I'm going to let, since he's sitting right here, I'm going to let him answer that. All right. I'm more into cubing right now, but pinball is still very fun. You're good at both. Great at both, I would even say. I really am impressed with the cubing. In fact, you can ask your dad. I send him these cubing videos, and he's like, yeah, I've seen them before. Yeah, Jeff will send me something that you sent me already. Like years ago. But anyway, I'm glad for Colin to be playing and hopefully Evan someday too. Charlotte, not so much, right? Charlotte, not so much. She went once, and my mom went the same month to the monthly over here, and she did all right. Did she win on Paragon? Yeah. And then I would not place any wagers on her diving into the scene in any way. For the moment. Yeah. I talked to your dad about Colin playing, and I said, look at this. He's totally just shunning your parenting skills when you wouldn't allow Josh and Zach to play in tournaments. And look what he's doing. And your dad just kind of rolled his eyes, but he said nothing but positive things, obviously, about Colin. And obviously, Colin's used to, in a way, competitions because of cubing. So your dad wanted to make sure you were always having fun playing pinball and not be disappointed in any losses that you might have in the competition. So if Colin's still there, do you get bummed if you lose or are you still having fun? No, I'm still having fun. You drove me nuts when your dad did that, didn't it, Josh? I mean, I was Colin's age. So, of course, like most kids, when you want to do something and your parents say no, your response is not, I'm fine with that no and certainly respect your decision. I don't think Colin has ever responded to a no in that way. And I'm sure I didn't 30 whatever years ago. See, if you were fortunate or unfortunate, like 70% of us population with divorced parents, he always had a note. Oh, mom said no. What a dead sick. So let's recap 2024. I'd have to say, first off, another successful year for IFPA, for pinball in general, not just the companies and the number of games we're seeing, things like Expo and TPF and all the shows and people really shooting big for big tournaments and all these kind of things. But 2024, the first thing I see is, wow, we had five majors return. For the first time ever, actually. Yeah, yeah, first time ever. Crazy. It's pretty good. Five is the max, I assume. I mean, there are tournaments that you could, I think of something like the UK Open, which to me is a major without the title. But five is pretty much the cap, I would assume. I would assume that is the case. Fast forward a decade as these other newer events gain their own legacy and foundation within the lexicon of competitive pinball. And really, it's the players that sort of force that issue based on who we're seeing attend and the support of those events over very long periods of time. I mean, player count, I think it was really right near the number that I predicted. And, you know, working with people that I trust to have organized such a feat, you know, it was, I will say, expected, but happy that everyone really seemed to enjoy themselves. I'm wondering, as that tournament is on the schedule for the entire year and people are going to be aware of it, and I assume part of the Stern Pro Circuit and all that, I said to Andy, being that it was so close to where this 2024 European Pinball Championship was and even back-to-back with the UK Open, I said I would expect more people from around the globe to come, not just North Americans, but definitely from Europe next year. I agree with that. I think there was certainly, you saw it with, even though Pinberg sold out, I think there was a decent number of people that sort of passed on the return of the two old guard majors and are sort of like, you know, show me first before I commit, you know, the thousands of dollars to travel and play. So, I mean, I think both of those events had a very successful year one in their rebirth, and I think it'll only be natural for the interest to grow in both. Well, let's talk about Pimberg. That was a spectacular event put on by kind of a lot of the former Papa Crew, you know, definitely people in the Pittsburgh area. You think of Elizabeth Cromwell, you think of Doug Polk and all these people that were used to doing at the old convention center. Done a little bit differently this time at the Resonine Sports Center, but really well spread out. It was exactly like the format I'm used to at Pimberg, plus a few other bonuses, too, with the bash at the Berg. The whip was back They got other things planned for 2025 and obviously growth is one of those things You have to be happy It really justified yeah that is a major Yeah no doubt That crew over there, it's one of those, you know, same thing. I expected it to be great because of the people that were organizing it, and it exceeded my expectations. Kudos to both Papa and Pinberg. Of course, there's the EPC, there's the IFPA Open and the World Championships. I was at two of those. So let's talk about those. IFPA, Open, InDisc, that team, you never have to worry about what they do. It's kind of a bar that's been set. Wouldn't you agree? I think the only worry is them deciding they don't want to go insane anymore because, yeah, what they do is crazy town, man, crazy. I love I'll take it every year. They're willing to put themselves through that pain. but yeah, man, one of the best events on the planet, bar none. You were a big part of what went on with, again, part of that team, Jim Belsito at his venue. First of all, I hope you got a chance to see it on stream, on IE Pinball, because what Jim had really built, kind of memories of IFPA 15, what Adam Becker did with his press start arcade, he really wanted to host the World Championships, built this venue. Jim Belsito did the same thing and said, I see your press start arcade. And maybe it's both wonderful, don't get me wrong, but when you walked into Belsito's place in Southern California, you went, oh, there needs to be more tournaments here. I'm sorry it's on your property, but we want to come back. Yeah, no, it was just ridiculous. I don't know what else to say about what Jim and Trish have done out there, opening their home to everybody from around the world. It was epic. It was stellar. And what a great final it was. It was cool. Yeah. We'll talk about the finals in a little bit. And the final is actually coming up this month on Pinball Profile, a little sneak peek. All right. I have the four winners who won the five majors. And we were all at the UK Open, and I recorded them each for like 15 minutes, asking them all the same kind of questions, and it's neat to hear the different answers too. Cool, very cool. The other event was the EPC, and I hadn't gone to that one this year, done in Poland. I was at the one the year before in Germany, and the champion was Escher Lefkoff. I heard him talk about that, and I don't like to talk about tournaments. I don't attend. It's kind of like talking about pinball machines I haven't played. I really don't know until I get my hands on it. But Escher had mentioned a few times, and he was critical of certain things, And I wonder your take on that. Is it something that needs to be addressed? Is it something that it does? It does. And it will. It will be. Yeah, I mean, Escher certainly has voiced his opinion about whatever pinball events he's done. And conversely, let me just say, he's also extremely helpful with so many players and learning the games and having fun. And you can see him having fun at tournaments and stuff. And he's given me good advice for even my tournaments too that I will take to heart for 2025. So, you know, when you get that kind of feedback, whether it's you as the IFPA president, whether it's a tournament director, I would suggest, and I'm using myself as an example, maybe you can tell me if you're the same, you certainly listen and sometimes, yeah, changes happen because of it. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's no doubt, you know, the majors that we've talked about already have things in common, like an organizing team that exists as this uniformed, unified bunch, and they're in charge of all the logistics related to their event. I would say that, like, my team dealing with our world championship is probably the most high-anxiety version because we are changing locations every year and often, I mean, less anxious going to a place like Jim Belsito's house because I trust him as a player and as someone who appreciates quality of games and blah, blah, blah. But, you know, we've certainly had our fair share of showing up to hosts and having a different version of a setup day before, you know, the festivities begin the next day. And I think the EPC not only has that, where you have this event that's being built from the ground up in these countries, but then you're also having a different team doing it every year. So that continuity, I think, you know, anyone that wanted to objectively observe the five majors would probably point to the EPC and say, hey, based on this thing moving around every year to new places and the organizing team changing every year, that one's probably the one that's the hardest to pull off. And that objective group would be correct. Well, you have a team in place for the IFPA event, which was, again, the Jim Belcedos this year. That team's pretty much, for the most part, been the same for years to come. Is there a playbook that you use for that that can be shared with not just the EPC but other big tournaments? Sure. We have our playbook and our to-do list for the hosts, and we have run into situations where we can't force them to do it. So when we show up and certain things aren't done, then Adam Becker puts on his frowny face and gets his ass to work. I ask about that playbook because coming up soon, I guess you've still got to the end of the year, but at some point we'll see the posting of the Stern Pro Circuit events of 2025.

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You have to ask the organizers. You know, like for me, like IFPA Pin Masters, I run it as a circuit event because I'm selfish and I want circuit points for myself and I know I'm going to be there. So, you know, for me, it's as simple as that. But it does for a lot of events like the impact on the prize pool could be pretty significant. And if the players aren't asking for it that are there, it could seem like a waste, especially we see that in Europe. I'm always kind of surprised when a European event jumps in and says yes, because it's, I mean, we saw Arvid show up this year for the finals. But, you know, outside of him and, what, Daniele years ago, they might be the only two Europeans to have ever played in a circuit final. You'd have to fact check me on that. But I'll say that as if it's a fact. And, yeah. Yeah, I think going forward, I believe the UK Open would be a circuit event. I think that LPA one may have declined and I haven seen the status Maybe you know Brisbane Masters in Australia They in Yeah they in I wonder what it does for big events like that especially on the other side of the world where I'm only getting to participate in one of these. Exactly. So there's half the thought I'm donating money to basically none of these players that are playing here, or is it the prestige of, okay, maybe people will come to it. And I know I feel that with the beast applying is that, you know, it's not a bigger event. It's grown every year, but maybe that is something that will make somebody want to come. But I can say, I've heard others say, with the 20 events and two of them being majors, the majors really outpoint the other events. And the question was asked to me, so I'll ask to you, should majors be part of the Stern Pro Circuit? because it's not exactly an equal distribution of points when they get that big boost, but it also contributes to the prize pool. So your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, the system, we run the system objectively, right, which is Whoppers are the currency. And for Stern, who's looking to highlight the 20 biggest events across the year and something that they are talking about externally, even outside of the pinball world, I think having the majors included in the circuit is great for the circuit, the strength of the circuit, and being able for Stern to connect themselves to the biggest and best events on the planet. I guess if you use the golf analogy, which a lot of the point structures have really been. Hey, that's right, man. I don't hide my golf love, for sure. No, but the majors are part of the PGA Tour, except for maybe the Open. and I don't even know if that is the case, the Open in Scotland or wherever it happens to be. But okay. You mentioned Stern. Obviously, Stern has to be happy for them to continue and give great prizes like they've done throughout the year. Papa was another example of the IFPA Championship. I think IFPA purchased some of these. But again, Stern is a big, big part of not just the pro circuit, which is obvious, but competitive pinball. The coding that they're doing in games nowadays, you'll see competitive modes. You'll see them put in little Josh codes where you can't kill a multi-ball or ball saves and things like that. It's nice to see not just Stern but the other pinball companies as well really take notice to the fact that there are so many competitions, and that is a big part of their market. Yeah, I think no doubt our numbers continue to grow every year. So anyone who's looking at getting into these various niches of pinball, attaching yourself to something that obviously is still in this growth phase, I don't know when it's going to stop, but not yet, it probably does them well to connect themselves to something that's growing. I didn't ask you in advance, so if you have to Google it or find your spreadsheets, you mentioned the numbers. So what were the numbers so far in 2024 as far as number of tournaments compared to years past and even unique players, which I think is probably the better metric, isn't it? Yeah, if we're down, it's going to be so embarrassing. We're going to have you cut this whole thing. It is only November 2nd. You're hearing this on November 5th, three days after the recording, not five. And, you know, there's still two months and big events still to come. Like right now, as we speak, the 24-hour sanctum is happening. There's 100 people right there. All right. So total, let's do total events. 2022 was 7,700. 2023 was 10,324. 2024 with two months to go is 10,206. So I think we're going to pass. last year. That seems pretty safe with two months to go. Probably this weekend. Probably this weekend. That's great. So how about unique players? Unique players. And the reason I say I'm curious of unique players, because if you look, there are 130,000, let's say, IFPA registered players. Now, that doesn't mean they all play, but the unique players certainly tells you who's playing in the year? Yeah. Last year, just under 33,000. And this year, just over 35,000 with two months to go. You got to be happy with that growth. I mean, is there a number you're looking for or just... Yes. In 2006, I was looking for that number to hit 1,000. So we're in the gravy phase, Jeffrey. Way in the gravy phase. You make changes every year. Usually it's to the points and sometimes to the formats, a little bit of both with the new hybrid tournament. I know the answer you're going to give me. So can you just say it and then I'll listen? I'm going to ask you as the president to explain what that is in your terms to be a salesperson and get people interested and maybe in the hybrid tournament. You don't have to because again, there are multiple formats you can choose when running an event, but what is the hybrid event? So the hybrid event, let's see, the best way for me to explain it to you is let's take a hypothetical example. And you can participate, Jeff. This will be fun. If we are playing, let's say we're playing, Colin's playing ACDC right now. So let's say we're going to go play a game of ACDC. If I play four times and you play 71 times and we see who had the best score, does that seem like a high quality measurement between the skills of one another? No, it doesn't. If you play at one time and I play at one time, does the fact that we're playing at one time seem like a high quality measurement of our skill between each other? I think one is not enough. If we each play it four times and take the best score that we got. Does that seem like the highest quality of the three examples I just gave? It does. And that's hybrid. So, I mean, really all it is is trying to make sure that there's enough games being attempted for players to show their skill and on the top end ensure that, hey, due to the fact that you have the funds available and the time available to play ACDC 71 times and I only have a chance to play it three, that we make sure the bar is high enough for quality but low enough for everyone to be able to reach. So the limited format, this is an extension of that, you can get faster whopper points, if you will, by doing the hybrid. I wonder how popular the limited tournaments are. And the reason I say that is I don't see a lot of them. I do travel a little bit. I used to see it at Texas Pinball Festival, but I see they're even changing to a match play format. Yeah, it was really, I think Allentown ran a limited one also, But like you said, they are really rare. Allentown, it's based on time constraints. And I think that was it for Texas too. Yep, yep. I'm curious who will adopt the hybrid because it certainly is more fair amongst players depending on, you know, I think of a cleap in which, and they went to card-based format, but you can buy as many as you want. they have multiple days of qualifying and if you burn through those four per game pretty quickly you luckily can go to show and and see maybe seminars and things like that but if it's just a tournament you're kind of sitting there going what am i gonna do maybe get something meat or things like that. See a movie? Yeah. Go to the Resonine downstairs and go see a movie? Yeah.