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The Pinball Show Ep 192: Different Pinball Companies, Different Strategies, But Who Does It Best?

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 39m·analyzed·May 5, 2026
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Analysis

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TL;DR

Stern's Pokemon dominates sales; industry diverges on scarcity vs. volume strategy.

Summary

Zach Minnie and Dennis Creasel discuss pinball industry strategies, with heavy focus on Stern's Pokemon sales dominance (fastest-selling game in company history, 2.5x revenue of other machines, highest-returning pinball machine of last 25 years per George Gomez), production timelines showing May gap before next Cornerstone announcement, and contrasting business models of Spooky Pinball (limited production, FOMO-driven scarcity) versus Stern's tiered Pro/Premium approach. Secondary discussion examines whether Spooky and emerging manufacturers (Barrels of Fun) are creating sustainable competitive advantage through artificial scarcity or pricing incorrectly.

Key Claims

  • Pokemon is the fastest-selling game in Stern's history, with initial quantities sold out between mid-February and end of April.

    high confidence · Zach citing official Stern email to operators/Stern Army participants; confirmed by George Gomez commentary

  • Pokemon is earning 2.5x more revenue than other machines, making it the highest-returning pinball machine of the last 25 years across all manufacturers.

    high confidence · Stern email claim, verified by George Gomez who stated Stern conducted operator research and polling across the country to validate this cross-manufacturer claim

  • Stern has no plans to remake Stranger Things, with only 2-3 Premium units remaining in inventory; same for Uncanny X-Men (3 Premiums left, no remakes planned).

    high confidence · Zach reporting from Stern production schedules and inventory data he monitors

  • Stern has no future plans to produce James Bond pinball machines.

    high confidence · Zach reporting official Stern position

  • May production schedule shows Pokemon Pro/Premium only, with nothing else scheduled, suggesting next Cornerstone announcement coming in May with production beginning end of May or early June.

    high confidence · Zach analyzing Stern's Inside Pinball production calendar data

  • Spooky Pinball has achieved three consecutive game releases selling above MSRP on secondary market, a rare phenomenon not seen before with other manufacturers.

    high confidence · Zach's analysis of Spooky's recent releases; Dennis confirms understanding of the trend

  • Barrels of Fun is approaching the secondary-market-premium phenomenon, with Winchester 'tickling' MSRP and Dune likely to exceed MSRP within next 1-2 months.

    medium confidence · Zach's market observation of secondary pricing trends

  • Pokemon appeals to a broader demographic including children and families, unlike Marvel titles, because of Pokemon's cultural ubiquity in card games and broader pop culture.

Notable Quotes

  • “Pokemon by Stern Pinball is the fastest selling game in their history. Initial quantities have sold out.”

    Stern Pinball (via email to operators) @ ~11:30 — Official claim underpinning entire Pokemon market dominance narrative; verified by George Gomez

  • “Pokemon is currently earning two and a half times more than other machines, making it the highest returning pinball machine of the last 25 years.”

    Stern Pinball (via email) @ ~14:00 — Cross-manufacturer revenue claim validated by Stern's own operator research per George Gomez; most concrete market data available

  • “No, it's of all pinball machines in the last 25 years from any manufacturer...based on the data that we've received now, it's irregardless of the manufacturer.”

    George Gomez @ ~15:30 — Chief Creative Officer of Stern publicly validates and doubles down on Pokemon's unmatched revenue performance across entire industry

  • “It's probably filling the cash box to the best of any game. I totally believe that.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~16:45 — Veteran observer validates Pokemon's operator appeal based on visibility into regional location performance

  • “Pokemon is going to finally have a game that kids would want to put quarters in...Pokemon, it's a different level. It's not the obsession. It's just different.”

    Zach Minnie @ ~13:00 — Articulates why Pokemon succeeds where Marvel fails: broader cultural reach beyond comics into card gaming and universal recognition

  • “Spooky is very happy with how it is...They see what it would take to do that, and they don't think that juice is worth that squeeze.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~42:00 — Characterizes Spooky's conscious strategic choice to maintain limited production runs despite clear secondary-market premium pricing opportunity

  • “It is not actually, I think, long term healthy to be a company where your reputation ends up being you're the company I can't buy from, even though my money is perfectly good.”

    Dennis Creasel — Articulates consumer concern about Spooky's aggressive scarcity strategy and its long-term reputational risk

Entities

Zach MinniepersonDennis CreaselpersonGeorge GomezpersonStern PinballcompanyPokemon (Stern)gameSpooky PinballcompanyBarrels of Funcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Pokemon (Stern) achieved fastest pre-sale velocity in Stern's company history between mid-February and end of April 2025, with initial quantities selling out; represents unprecedented market demand for themed pinball release.

    high · Official Stern email to operators stating 'fastest selling game in their history' with 'initial quantities sold out'; corroborated by Zach and verified by George Gomez

  • $

    market_signal: Pokemon is generating 2.5x revenue of other Stern machines and is the highest-returning pinball machine of last 25 years across all manufacturers, according to Stern's operator research polling.

    high · George Gomez publicly validated cross-manufacturer claim with statement: 'based on the data that we've received now, it's irregardless of the manufacturer'

  • $

    market_signal: Pokemon appeal extends to children and families previously underserved by pinball's Marvel/comic-book-centric licensing, creating new operator venue category (FECs, family entertainment centers) willing to deploy pinball for first time.

    high · Dennis and Zach noted multiple regional locations now carrying Pokemon (abnormal distribution pattern); FEC operators considering Pokemon despite no existing pinball strategy due to IP ubiquity

  • ?

    product_strategy: Spooky Pinball has achieved three consecutive releases (Evil Dead, Beetlejuice, unnamed next) selling above MSRP on secondary market for extended periods, establishing new business model based on artificial scarcity rather than continuous production.

    high · Zach identified unprecedented phenomenon where three consecutive releases from single manufacturer maintain above-MSRP pricing; Dennis confirmed Spooky's conscious strategic choice to avoid expansion despite opportunity

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.299

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:12
Thanks for clicking. This is the Pinball Show, episode 192. I'm Zach Minnie alongside Dennis Creasel. Dennis, what's new in your world? Oh, I mean, not a whole lot. I've been busy. I've been working on some video. Not important busy. Well, I've been busy at work, but not as busy as you have been at work. You've had this big thing. I've been my Facebook. I saw stuff. I don't know if it was the Facebook, but I know you had told me you had actually was when we recorded the last episode. You were getting ready to go and get like some big collector's collection. Yes. Yeah. Well, we will talk later in the episode about that. But yeah, I purchased a giant pinball collection, bigger than I've ever purchased before. And the whole coordination and everything, it was like 40 plus pinball machines. So when did you get back from all that? Full Friday? No. Wednesday night. When you're still recovering, that's a lot. I am. Yes, that's a lot. Even with Escaleras, I would think that would be a lot. And it was just two of us. So, oh, OK. Were there stairs? There were stairs. OK. There's with landing. There's always land. Oh, with landing. That is the cherry. Once you have a midway landing, man, and they did not tell me about said landing. They told me about stairs. I could go back, not to throw them under the bus, but I think they may have said straight shot, but it was a dog leg. Dog leg left there. And a packed house just because it was so – we'll talk about it. I mean, obviously there are a lot of games if you were getting 40 plus. Yeah, it was a big house but a normal size house, so they were everywhere.
2:04
But yeah, I'm tired from that. And then the next day I had to wake up. That was like a six-hour one-way to Ohio. So that was one day. You didn't do it all in one day, did you? No, we knocked it out in two days, but – oh, my gosh. And then the next day, then I went to my son at Purdue was doing a he was in a directing class. So he's a junior. So he had the short film for a final exam and they were showing it at the local theater. So we went up there for a short film festival, if you will. But every first time I've ever been to a short film festival and stayed there until and then got home Thursday night at two in the morning. And yeah, just been going ever since, man. Cool. Do you enjoy that?

high confidence · Dennis and Zach's discussion of operator venue appeal and earn rates

  • Jersey Jack has stopped production of Harry Potter Arcade and Wizard editions until fall, creating competitive timing dynamics with Stern's rumored Transformers launch.

    medium confidence · Zach reporting production halt; characterizes as strategic timing for next cornerstone launch

    • @ ~46:30

  • “I think you're right...I think I am right. Yeah, they've got to build something.”

    Zach Minnie / Dennis Creasel @ ~6:45 — Confidence in May cornerstone announcement prediction based on production calendar gap analysis

  • “Both of those may be the biggest games of the year, so it's hard for me to say. Or do we have somebody else coming from the back of the pack and passing both of them?”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~25:00 — Acknowledges uncertainty around competitive landscape between Stern Transformers and JJP rumored title; raises possibility of third-party dark horse

  • “The difference now between then, and it's a big difference, is that the value after the games were built has gone up now. And back then they would often crater.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~38:00 — Identifies structural shift in Spooky's market positioning: improved quality and theme selection has made scarcity strategy actually viable

    • Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Stranger Things (Stern)game
    Uncanny X-Men (Stern)game
    James Bond (Stern)game
    Transformers (rumored Stern)game
    Sonic the Hedgehog (rumored JJP)game
    Beetlejuice (Spooky)game
    Evil Dead (Spooky)game
    Winchester Mystery House (Barrels of Fun)game
    Dune (Barrels of Fun)game
    Jurassic Park (Stern)game
    King Kong (Stern)game
    Jaws (Stern)game
    The Pinball Showorganization
    Inside Pinballproduct
    Insider Connectedproduct
    Replay Magazineorganization
    Addams Familygame
    ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing consumer frustration with Spooky's scarcity strategy despite willingness to pay; Dennis articulated concern about company becoming known as 'the company I can't buy from, even though my money is perfectly good,' creating long-term reputational risk.

    high · Dennis framed Rolex Problem analogy; discussed how people unable to purchase despite having funds creates brand alienation risk

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stern and Jersey Jack positioned for close competitive launch timing of next major releases (rumored Transformers vs. Sonic the Hedgehog); JJP halted Harry Potter production through fall to position for launch, indicating strategic coordination.

    medium · Zach noted JJP deliberately stopped Harry Potter production until fall; both hosts discussed tight race scenario and discussed possibility of third-party dark horse winner

  • ?

    product_lifecycle: Stern discontinuing three major properties: Stranger Things (2-3 premiums remaining), Uncanny X-Men (3 premiums remaining), and James Bond (no future production plans). Unusual for X-Men which hasn't reached 1.0 code version.

    high · Zach reporting from Stern inventory and production data; Uncanny X-Men discontinuation at sub-1.0 code flagged as atypical due to code restart complications

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern's May 2025 production schedule shows only Pokemon Pro and Premium with no other titles scheduled, indicating design and tooling phase for next Cornerstone announcement expected by end of May.

    high · Zach analyzing Inside Pinball production calendar: 'there's just nothing on there' except Pokemon; both hosts confident announcement coming May with production start end of May/early June

  • $

    market_signal: Barrels of Fun replicating Spooky's scarcity-premium strategy with Winchester approaching MSRP premium and Dune expected to exceed MSRP within 1-2 months, suggesting business model validation across boutique manufacturers.

    high · Zach identified Winchester 'tickling' MSRP and Dune expected to exceed within 1-2 months; characterized as Barrels 'kissing the nectar themselves' before making full commitment to scarcity strategy

  • ?

    community_signal: Community skepticism of Stern's Pokemon sales claims prompted Zach to publicly defend against accusations of fabrication; George Gomez's intervention validated claims and lent manufacturer credibility, but revealed underlying community distrust of official statements.

    medium · Zach received online criticism ('you're full of shit', 'pulling these out of your ass'); George Gomez intervention and verification restored credibility but exposed pattern of community skepticism toward manufacturer claims

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spooky Pinball showing measurable quality improvements over time in gameplay depth and component reliability, moving away from early reliance on 'hot glue guns and IDE cables' to professional manufacturing standards; improvements enable secondary-market premium pricing strategy.

    high · Dennis acknowledged Spooky's quality trajectory while noting they're 'not at the top of the list' but 'significantly better than it was'; quality improvements make secondary-market premiums defensible through actual product value

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern historically focused on homeowner market at expense of arcade/location operators, but Pokemon success demonstrates massive operator revenue opportunity; operators across region now carrying Pokemon (abnormal pattern), suggesting Stern missed market segment growth.

    high · Zach stated 'I don't feel like Stern has really paid that good of attention to arcade operators...nor should they, because the homeowners are driving things now' but then noted Pokemon breaking pattern with multiple regional locations carrying it

    • 2:51
    You know me. I love film and cinema and stuff. That's why I was – I actually – I really like shorts. Like I always liked short stories and such and I always felt like short film struggles even harder than short stories do to get a lot of attention. Yeah. Which is kind of funny because everyone's all like TikTok brained now. You'd think short film would thrive. Yeah, it would feel like when you have – I think there are eight to 12 minutes. That would feel long for some of these kids nowadays. I have to sit through a 10-minute film? I always found it to be a really interesting format because you still need to make something compelling, but you don't have the same runway to do it. You don't have anything to build upon character development. You have little to nothing. You've got to hit hard and hit right.
    3:38
    Dennis, my son made me proud. I'm not a pessimistic person, but I'm a very realist type of guy. I'm very, you know, in media and stuff, I'm high strung and positivity and a lot of energy. But then in real life, it's like that balance of a very realist. So push comes to shove. I really did think there was a good chance my kid was going to fuck this up. I really just thought, you know what, I'm going to be, this is going to be a mess. Just because I don't know why, but I didn't think he was going to be. But that was just my thought of like, there's a good chance that I might have to sit down and be like, son, this is maybe not your call kind of thing. I just was like, you don't know. You don't know. You send them off and then you don't know. And I was overwhelmed by how great this kid did. And yeah, I wasn't, not that I wasn't expecting it, but I just, I didn't know. And yeah, it was, he was, I'm biased, of course, truly biased. But of the 15 short films, objectively, probably the top writing in the entire bundle there. I was I was. Yeah. So I was overwhelmed with great emotion, seeing that and being proud, proud papa. That's right, Adam, proud papa sitting there watching as he was able to do some writing. He did comedy, a comedy film, and that's the hardest to write. I was like, when he told me he was doing comedy, I thought, dude, good luck. Like, there's just drama. You can cry and stuff like that. I'm not saying that's easy. Horror, horror is pretty easy. But when it comes to comedy, stuff, everybody wants to lean on the horror, right?
    5:34
    I'm going to say that's a fair point. When I was out of college and I was looking for work, actually, I wrote a number of short stories. I had a few published. I remember you talking about that. Yeah, and horror was the one I could usually get published the easiest. So I do all sorts of spec. Well, especially video. Horror was – there was a huge appetite for it. It's pretty easy to – like the nice thing about horror is that generally what scares someone will scare a lot of people. With comedy, there's different styles of humor. There's a whole – there's a cadence to it. In fact, I've went on occasion when people have brought up because, you know, my my style in real life is like here, like I do a lot of like I use a lot of humor in my life. I always have. And sometimes I've had people ask me about like, you know, they'll say like, why? Like, how does it like if they think I'm funny, they might say something like, why are you funny? Like, why? Like, how does it work? Sort of so to speak. And it'd be like, it's all about to me. It's always all about cadence. This is more important than having a good joke. 100%. It's all about timing, and that's just what I remember. I used to watch Russell Simmons' Def Comedy Jam and all that stuff, and it was the cadence that stuck with me as who were the best ones, were the ones that knew how to pace the joke. And so you're trying to do that in a film. You mess up that pacing. You have the wrong tone. All of that. Like, it's your game to lose. Comedy's bomb all the time because it's so easy to screw them up. I couldn't have said it better. But he took it on. We're not the Film Bros show. We're the Pinball show. Let's talk about Pinball then. You want to talk about Stern Pinball? What's going on? I think this is going to be a really full episode. Oh, we get a lot of news. Buckle up.
    7:17
    Trough Jam. 2026. Coming soon. I still want balls missing. Balls not in trough. That is 2026, Zach. So we're going to let's stretch this as we can. It's going to be May. Oh, boy. Why are we here? I'm not quite sure. But anyway, Zach's worked up some good notes. So what's going on with the production, Zach? Over at Stern Pinball, the past couple of weeks, they've been still making some of those Pokemon LEs as parts have been coming in. Jaws Premium still haven't made all of the Jaws Premiums yet, but the majority of them, they've been creating and producing Jurassic Park Pro and King Kong Pro and Premium. We've talked about over the last couple of months, viewer, that April is just going to be full of just a number of different titles and SKUs. So they've been doing that as they said they would. The next couple of weeks, we're going to see Pokemon Pro and Premiums. Pretty much the majority of May, I would say. Next week is going to be the Pros. So you're going to see those. I'm not going to lie. They squeezed out a little bit of them last week because, remember, that first run, Pokemon Pro. So they did that. But the pros in the second run starts this week. We're going to see a lot of those go out over the next week or two. And then premiums in the second week of May, second and third week of May. And then there's nothing on the schedule. Nothing. What? There's just nothing on there. So I'm still we discussed last episode to May, June for that next cornerstone announcement and production starting. And I think we're going to be accurate there as to when. I'm standing by that we're going to know the next title officially this month. We're in May now. I think you're right. I do think you're right. I think I am right. Yeah, they've got to build something. You've got to build something.
    9:12
    And so inside Pinball, at this point, typically in the production schedule, Stern gives us a calendar of kind of what we're running. But we typically know the month after what we're currently in. We know what they're going to be making for the most part each week. And then sometimes even the month after that. But as of right now, inside Pinball, there's nothing on May except for Pokemon Pro and Premium. And they've already told us that the premiums will be mid month here. So it's just if there was some other type of title like Jurassic Park or anything, we would probably see it on that calendar. Right. I'm not saying anything. So I think if anything, they may start the line of the next Cornerstone at the end of May, even if they haven't announced yet. Maybe they run it a week. That's typically what they'll do. Remember when the media talk about going up there and stuff? They're like, oh, they were already on the line, but nobody knew it yet because they haven't announced or teased that title. So I think that's what we're seeing. We're right there, viewer, with the next Cornerstone Stern game. And Q3 and Q4 is going to be a mixture of different games. Of note, though, Stranger Things, they have no plans to remake that again. And Stern is down to, I think, like two or three units of Stranger Things premiums. So once they're done with that, then the only number of them out there are going to be with dealers. So if you're looking for a Stranger Things premium, if you want a new one, you might need to pull the trigger on that. They are out now of Uncanny X-Men Pro, and they're down to only three premiums with no plans to make those again either. So same goes. I don't even think that game's at 1.0 yet.
    10:57
    Is it typical? It's very rare to cut a game from production or have no plans to ever build it again and not be at full 1.0 code. Yeah, but given the restart on the code, I mean, it is in a different boat. So I agree with you. It's unusual. And then, as we've said before, they do have no future plans to make James Bond.
    11:22
    OK, I was I received this email from Stern. I think that this email went out to like operators, those that are part of like the Stern launch parties and Stern Army stuff and all of that. Yeah. But I found some really interesting information on it. I created an ad out of it because it is my job to sell pinball machines. And I got all kinds of shit because these were some bold claims that Stern Pinball was making about their recent Pokemon Pinball release. But I put them out there as if, you know, just the data and trying to do an advertisement. And they're like, some of the people out there, oh, you're full of shit. You're just trying to sell this game. You're pulling these these this information out of your ass. Stern wouldn't Stern never shares anything. So we know it wasn't them. And I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to sell games. Where's the trust? Where is the trust? What have I done for people not to? I mean, you lost those that box of candy.
    12:28
    Coin box. That damn turtle hat. And the total hat. OK, so it's still going to find that. Zach, the people want to know. Did you ever find it? I didn't. Shucks. So this information. Maybe it fell out of the box. These are bold statements, but it's not like I don't believe them, but they are bold. Stern Pinball said in this email advertisement that Pokemon by Stern Pinball is the fastest selling game in their history.
    12:58
    The fastest selling game in their history. Initial quantities have sold out. The fastest selling game in their history. So how do we measure that? That's a pretty bold claim. I would think they're measuring it by, okay, we released mid-February. From mid-February to end of April, we have pre-sold more in that quantity of time than we have in our company's history. I think that's what they're going for.
    13:32
    Is that fair? I think it would be a fair measurement. I had assumed maybe it was number they've directly sold plus number of orders pending or otherwise from distributors. Sure. And just what that count is after whatever snapshot they did where like after six weeks or. Exactly. I'm still, that is, I just remember the pandemic, like when there was nothing to buy and like Godzilla and just the hype that Godzilla had. And I just really, I mean, Pokemon is a better license by far. I just but OK, I mean, I could see it given the theme and the reaction to the game has been positive. I just in the history of the history. Wow. Even more than than Richie Star Wars or some. I think it's just because of the in the window that they are measuring because Godzilla that came out. That was what? Was that pre-pandemic? It was during. Was it during? Kind of during. Wasn't that a 2021 release? Okay. So I think that game still had a little bit of burn time that really got it going. People were over the moon with it whenever it released, but I think that was just a building sales monster over years. And the production, they couldn't make it during the pandemic at the speed and capacity to which they are making Pokemon right now. Right. Yeah, it was September, October, depending on the edition of 21 for Godzilla. So that would have been Delta variant time. Perfect. The second wave of COVID, basically. So, no, they also said this isn't just a popular title. It's a revenue blockbuster. Pokemon is currently earning two and a half times more than other machines, making it the highest returning pinball machine of the last 25 years.
    15:37
    That's more believable to me. Wow. Even more believable. 2.5 times. I mean, it's because it's finally a game that kids would want to put quarters in. Like, it's just and I know a lot of these locations now are different. Like, a lot of them are bars. Of course, a lot of them don't necessarily let kids in or let kids in without a parent. But there still are places, in fact, more so than there were maybe 10 years ago, locations to actually go and put money in. But, you know, I think there's been a thought, a baseline thought that like all this Marvel stuff will work with kids. And I think it does. But Pokemon, it's a different level. It's not the obsession. Yeah. I don't know how many kids are out there constantly reading comics anymore, but I know lots of kids and adults are into the cards for Pokemon. It's just different. And so they finally got something with this really broad appeal. And I will say that I don't feel like Stern has really paid that good of attention to arcade operators and route operators as they used to, nor should they, because the homeowners are driving things now. I totally get it. But this should have been a slam, you know, a grand slam for operators as a game. And we knew, we already talked about, you and I, how many operators we know have been picking up this game. I think you, I know you've sold to a number of operators. I mentioned that there are at least three locations in this area that have Pokemon.
    17:04
    It's like, that's not normal. We don't normally see that. So I'm not surprised. It's probably filling the cash box to the best of any game. I totally believe that. I found this interesting. So as I was trying to defend these online, these statements, somebody said, well, how are you going to measure the highest returning pinball machine of the last 25 years? So I said, you know what, that's probably more internal to Stern. They now have this pro operator inside connected so they can kind of see what games are earning out in the field from their own catalog. So I said, to be safe, I think they're referring to, out of the last 25 years, of all Stern Pinball machines, this is the highest returning machine that they're seeing at locations. So I thought that was a fair assessment. George Gomez, chief chief creative officer over at Stern Pinball, I think it's his actual title. He chimed in to the comment thread and said, no, it's of all pinball machines in the last 25 years from any manufacturer. He claimed that they did some work and research to reach out to operators across the country and to kind of poll and audit what they were seeing through all of their games and what rank they all were. And he said that the results that came out of that were also supportive of Pokemon being the highest returning pinball machine of the last 25 years. So he doubled down. He's like, no, we did the work. And based on the data that we've received now, it's irregardless of the manufacturer, which was even more impressive and surprising. Yeah, there used to be, I don't know if there still are or not, but back further in the day, I think there was an operator-oriented magazine. Oh, yeah, was it Replay? Yeah, that's what I wanted to think. I didn't want to say the name since I wasn't sure. And they used to, I thought, publish operator profits. Like they had certain like arcades or someplace where they'd reach out and gather data. And so I just figured they had information like that because, I mean, it's been I mean, it's it's it's a value to operators to know that sort of stuff for sure. Versus separate from trade secret stuff that the manufacturers might have. Like they will want to know which games are like I could, you know, talking to the area operators around here over the years, like I knew one. He always kept, other than to take it in for shop jobs because it would occasionally need it because it would get so much play. He said, like, at this location, Adam's family's always got to be there. Adam's family makes more than anything other than the newest stuff. It's a consistent earner. It draws big dollars. The nostalgia is real. And he would try out other stuff, like he tried out putting in a stargazer, which all the pinball enthusiasts love. And he's like, it was a dog. It didn't make any money. Yeah. Because all it has going for it is the art and the esoteric play of it only appeals to a certain type of person. That's a hardcore pinball person. So, you know, that sort of stuff gets shared around pretty readily. It's not, you know, it doesn't hurt the operator for the public to know which games earn the most either. It's like it's just not, oh, dear, like a bunch of people are going to swoop in and set up new routes or something and get Addams Family. It's like it just doesn't just doesn't work that way. Yeah, and I can see FECs even that have no interest in putting pinball machines in their family entertainment centers full of the big raw thrills games. I can see that or the mini golf and the duck bowling stuff to take a flyer on Pokemon and be like, OK, well, we'll at least have that one just because it's Pokemon is going to draw a lot of action. And those FECs know how much pinball machines are also because they weigh whether or not it's worth bringing those in. Yeah, that's why they know because they have to factor in the need for the tech that can handle the sophistication of pinball coupled with what its earn rate will be and its floor space that it takes. Because they have other stuff like in all arcade games, as you know, a lot of it's kiddie gambling. So they need to have people that can, you know, like claw machines and such. Those are mechanical. Point pushers. Yeah, they break down, too. So it's not all just a bunch of like simple circuit boards and joysticks. Now, we spoke last episode, 191. I think this was in the Patreon episode, though, about who gets out of the gate first because you were teasing about the whole Trough Jam 2026. I'm still seeing it, and I think that Ball 1 comes here, unless Ball 1 was the whole Yukon Yeti and Houdini 100. That was a practice game, if anything. This is we've got Stern and JJP gearing up to launch pretty close together. And we talked about it. Was that on Patreon where we were guessing? I think it was. Is it going to be Jersey Jack first or is it going to be Stern first? Because we know Jersey Jack has kind of stopped production or plans to stop production of Harry Potter now and will not make any more of the arcade and wizard editions until the fall. So what does that mean? I just wanted to bring it up here because you had said you still think Stern gets out ahead. I was thinking I don't think knowing JJP, I don't think they want Stern to get out ahead, especially with a nostalgic license. If it is the rumored Transformers that goes up video, you know, it goes up against the video game nostalgia of the rumored Sonic the Hedgehog. It's still nostalgia-based IP, and it is somewhat in competing lanes. I think so. I think it is in the competing lane.
    22:54
    They're both would likely appeal to a lot of the same generation. Yes. Maybe that's a good way to phrase it. Good overlap there. And you had said, Stern, I had said, I think, J.J.P., the more I'm hearing, you may be correct. But it's going to be close. So viewer, that's what you have to look forward to. Who's going to get out of the gate first? Speaking of the Churchill Downs here, who's going to get out of the gate first? Is it going to be Stern, Stern, Stern's leading? Is it going to be JJP? JJP's coming up to the left, Stern, Stern? Who's going to win? Who's going to win that race? So who gets out the gate first is one thing, but who's actually going to win that?
    23:36
    Can you have two winners? Both of those may be the biggest games of the year, so it's hard for me to say. Or do we have somebody else coming from the back of the pack and passing both of them on coming out of the gate? That's my, we'll have to wait and see. Disney does Stern. This is the other thing I've been thinking of. We get a lot of feedback about some of our statements from the last episode. I was saying we were going back and forth on is it does jump in the line make sense for spooky pinball to add to the Beetlejuice game because they've already sold out. I argued yes and made my made some arguments. You argued no and made some arguments. It's not that either one of us are 100 percent on either way, but we were just having some discussion there. A lot of people interested in that discussion, and it was awfully bold. I was saying, I think, unannounced, $22,000, the next Spooky could sell for. Spooky now has the last, if we count the next one as selling over MSRP on the secondary market. They would have three in a row to do such. The third one's going to. So let just for argument sake say three in a row So that a pretty special group to be in I can think of a time that that ever happened where three consecutive titles have come out and on the secondary market from a company and on the secondary market sold for over MSRP for at least a year So the question is, are they in a group all of their own, Spooky Pinball, with this phenomenon? Does it simply mean that they're not pricing their products correctly or is it more strategic as I had thought and suggested?
    25:33
    Does Stern join Spooky in the whole the next release is going to be worth more than MSRP group? They did it with Pokemon. The game before Walking Dead, they did not do it with. The game before that, Star Wars, they did not do it with. But they did for Pokemon. Do we see something closer to a Pokemon release where it's going to sell over MSRP? We talked about this a little bit. I said yes. You said you had your reservations whether that would happen. But I think it's interesting to discuss that over MSRP group because Barrels was tickling it too. They were tickling it with Winchester. So they get a streak of one.
    26:17
    One could argue maybe 1.5 because Dune sooner or later within the next probably month or two, Dunes will be going for more than MSRP as well on the secondary market, new and box.
    26:32
    So they may have this is a trend that I see happening. I think these manufacturers, especially the smaller ones, they're going to try to hedge their bets on that balance between. Sure, we could probably make two thousand.
    26:47
    But what if we make a thousand and make our product more valuable in the future and have releases that are more prime for immediate sales versus making two thousand? People know they have time and us only selling 700 as a result when we could have sold a thousand because we have some scarcity there.
    27:07
    Do you think Stern joins the group with the rumored Transformers, if that's what it is? You said you had your reservations, right?
    27:17
    Well, so it's a little – Stern's just not in the same boat with them because Stern – with Stern until production ceases, There's always an option, at least there will be with Transformers because, of course, there are exceptions. But in terms of the cornerstone model, there are not limited on the production. So the only thing that can happen with is the LE. So in a way, I don't care because that audience is not the same. One might instinctively think it's the same, but there are plenty of people that want to own Beetlejuice that would be very happy if it was not limited. They're not after a limited exclusive Beetlejuice. They want Beetlejuice because it embraces the theme. Great point. They love the movie and spooky by spooky's business model has meant, no, you will play the scarcity game because we are spooky and we always play the scarcity game. And this is not a new approach to spooky. Spooky before bug. This was their model. You know, Rob Zombie sold out instantly. Alice Cooper sold out instantly. Rick and Morty sold out instantly. The difference now between then, and it's a big difference, and you've already noted it, is that the value after the games were built has gone up now. And back then they would often crater. Rick and Morty didn't crater, but Rob Zombie did.
    28:43
    Because they know what people want now more. They're nailing what people want. The themes are better. I always thought Spooky had at least decent themes for the size of the company they were. I think the more telling thing is that the gameplay, I believe, is just generally seen. At least this is my – I'll speak for myself. The gameplay is better than it was. The quality has improved. I still personally feel Spooky is not at the top of the list when it comes to quality, but it is definitely significantly better than it was back when they were using hot glue guns and IDE cables to connect everything. But – so they just – they made a lot of improvements. Like they've just – they've gotten better. They've gotten better as they've gone along on all sorts of fronts. So to your question, my short answer remains as it was. No, Stern can't be in the same boat because there's always the premium and pro model for a reasonable period of time that people will be able to buy. I mean, we might, you know, in five years, people might lament, oh, gosh, Stranger Things isn't out there anymore. And now it's selling for more than it, you know. Yeah. But anyone who wanted a Stranger Things honestly had every opportunity to buy one. All the opportunities in the world. If you had the money for it, you had plenty of time. So there's no other excuse. So given, you know, that's not the case with a Spooky or a Barrels. And that in part is why I don't think companies like them will ever be comfortable enough even if they had the ambition to do it. And I don't think that they all do. I don't think Spooky for sure does. I think Spooky is very happy with how it is. We've talked about this before. They like where they're at like location-wise. They like the run sizes they're doing, all that stuff. They see what it would take to do that, and they don't think that juice is worth that squeeze. And they may be right on that. And barrels may be still trying to figure out that. Is that juice worth that squeeze? They want to kiss the nectar themselves before they make that determination. Spooky may have already done that and said, look, the juice is sweet, but it also has a little bitter bite to it. I think we're safe with this, with what we're doing. I would overall agree with Spooky's decision, even though I think from a consumer standpoint, it fundamentally is going to be frustrating. And and honestly, so Spooky's got its own unique set of they got new they brought in new success brings new problems. So they've got a new problem now. I view it as a problem because it's the and I, you know, how people hate arguments. And then you're stuck with me. They work really well. You get watchments instead. But it's the Rolex problem where you have a product that's very popular, Evil Dead, Beetlejuice, the next game coming up. There are a couple of rumored titles that are both extremely popular.
    31:35
    And people who want it, who have the money for it, will not be able to get it. And it's not the fault of the consumer in these instances. You didn't move fast enough. They don't even know officially what the game is yet. It's like you can't really buy something until it's out. So people are on interested lists because they're speculating and because they don't want to miss out. But even then, even if everyone was willing to do that, obviously only a certain number of people are still going to get it, a thousand or whatever. So how do you maintain – and that's where my whole point about jumping the line was kind of coming from. It wasn't to be mean to the consumer. As a consumer, I want them to add more and more stuff all the time. I totally get it. But it's like, guys, it is not actually, I think, long term healthy to be a company where your reputation ends up being you're the company I can't buy from, even though my money is perfectly good.
    32:29
    You're not Ferrari. And you want to walk that line, you can, but it will take different. They will have to manage it differently than they are because they're going to get in the point where people are like, I don't even look at Spooky because I can't buy it. So why bother?
    32:47
    In the watch world, that's where those people jump and they start buying Omegas instead. Yeah, but the thing is, if we use that argument, you said it hit me when you said they're not a Ferrari. What would make them not a Ferrari? They don't have the – I would argue they probably are. I think so. Maybe it's just a semantics thing, but the misconception is like what makes a Ferrari a Ferrari for non car people? It would be because those are the top echelon. Those are the best quality materials. Those are the highest performance. And spooky is not that. However, Ferraris break down more than others. Ferraris are more rare, but do they use the best materials sit inside a Ferrari? I'm not saying for all of them because Ferrari is tough because they are kind of the apex in the car industry. They are the thing that Bugatti, they're even more sought after Bugatti. They're kind of going down, but they're not all with their craft. They have some kinks in the armor. They're not at the top of every single list. It's more collectability. They're at the top of multiple lists. The only thing that – I'm going to sound real, man. I'm going to make spooky people mad, and it's not my intent. The only thing really going for spooky right now besides playing a limited game is they've got really, really good themes.
    34:18
    They aren't winning awards for the design still. Like the layouts aren't winning awards. They're not. You can claim the next game is going to, but so far they haven't. So we've already talked about the quality aspect. But so the only thing they bring to the table is theme immersion and really good licenses. And we know other other companies are matching them on theme immersion.
    34:46
    But Barrels of Fun is matching them on theme immersion. I don't think it would be fair to claim that they aren't. So it's like, unlike Ferrari, they only have one thing going for them. They don't have multiple. They're not seen as the best pinball company in the world. They're just some people will have the opinion, but they might be aiming for that. Everybody says it's more desirable to own a Ferrari than it is to own a Lexus. I don't know anybody. I don't know wide swaths of people who say it's better to own a Spooky than to own a CGC. You see what I mean? That's why they're just not in the same boat. But Spooky has won awards for artwork. Spooky has won awards for toppers. Spooky. So they do have some of the things, but yes, they're not too far. I'm lumping a lot of that into the theme immersion boat that they've got going for them. They're no, they're don't they're under bug. The company is doing better on almost every measure that I can think of. Like I'm actually I'm I'm fairly blown away about how much better spooky is run now. It just seems way better run. But I also think this is going to end up being a bit of an issue. And again, if people can get the game, they're going to be happy. But it's tough. And here's another aspect. I know, especially because I speak to you, Zach, I know that a lot of people at Spooky, they really want the community to like them. Being known as the guy you can't get a game from is not conducive to being liked. They will be disliked for that in the long run if it continues. So they're in a tough boat because they're getting licenses, in my opinion, that are too big for their run size. Hmm. Now, the solution there, if they want to cut out the middleman and the speculation is where you get to that icky side of, OK, Spooky can start pricing their game at twenty thousand dollars and then shut out the speculation. But I don't even think it's all speculation. I think there are a thousand legitimate people that want that game and they can't have it because a thousand is just not enough. And it sucks if you're not in it for the LE. If you're not in it because you want something rare, it sucks that your favorite favorite license is done by a company that won't build enough product. And I don't have a solution for you other than it will make people mad. It is objectively going to happen. The license can always open up with another manufacturer down the line. It's not like it won't ever happen, but they won't get the spooky one with the good art and the awesome topper. Yeah, they'll get the Stern one, which will shoot great and maybe have better rules. But otherwise, it's not going to be what they want. That's like the, I mean, using that car argument, Stern Pinball can produce a vehicle such as, you know, the Chevrolet Corvette ZRX or ZR1X.
    37:31
    That car is a fourth of what exotic cars are, and it outperforms all of them. But you can also buy the other models like the Z06 and the Stingray for $80,000 for a Stingray.
    37:49
    But that ZR1X will outperform the million-dollar cars. It's a $200,000 car. I mean, it's weird. And it will hold up better. And it is a blast to drive. And it is, for most people, a great way to own an exotic car. Again, it's the same in the watch space as well. But again, it's like Ferrari is Ferrari. Ferrari has certain things. You can go into a Porsche dealer and buy a Porsche. Maybe you can't buy every single model, but you can go in and get something. You can't. With Ferrari, you can't do that. But there are some people that would be like, I would rather have this. Like this company feels less like I don't like them treating me like I'm beneath them. And that comes up in watches, too, because there are some brands that kind of lean into that and they'll be like, oh, you know, I don't have the proper accent. Well, sir, you must first before Audemars Piguet and people winning a Royal Oak is a case. You have to play a game with them where you have to buy like they know they have watches that are unpopular and you must buy them first. Jay Leno, historically a billionaire. Jay Leno, a huge car guy. He won't do a Ferrari. Won't play that game. Won't do it. You know, he's a watch guy, too. Yeah, he's probably. Yep, and he's got rules for that, too.
    39:12
    Anything mechanical has overlap. I have tried very, very hard never to get into cars because I don't have the space for that. That would be a terrible hold of all that. There are some people that, no matter how much money they have in the world, they do set like a, I don't want to be treated that way, While there are other people that were like, but you can't get one. If you've got money, you can get anything. You can get a Ferrari if you've got money. You can buy a brand new one if you've got money, but you're paying over MSRP, which comes back to all this. Right, right, right. And that's where it struggled because MSRP, whether we like it or not, that's the company's way of declaring it ain't worth more than this. It's just suggesting. Sure, sure. But it only really generally for most people works one way. They might think your MSRP is ridiculous. Again, our example would be Invicta, which prices their watches at $1,000 and you wonder why they're always 90 plus percent off because it's a game with them. But part of the struggle that people have with Rolex models that trade with the brand for $12,000 and secondhand unused are going for $18,000 is the company says it's only worth $12,000. I'm not paying $18,000. Not for a mass-produced product like that. And there are others that pay it because they don't want to wait and they don't want to play the game because they'll end up spending more money at the dealer buying all the shit to get what they actually want. That is actually going to cost them more to play the game, so they don't. They just go and they pay extra secondhand. That's how that works. Just like you could go buy a used Ferrari from someone. Do you pay more? I guess it depends on the model. Pretty much you're still paying over MSRP. But maybe it's like I only want one. I don't want to play a weird game or wait forever. You know, money can get you past a lot of things. But some people like the principle of the matter will mean that they just can't bring themselves to do it. It's also interesting if we throw another company in that has abandoned this whole model. I remember Jersey Jack got so much shit for, but your games depreciate faster than other games and all this stuff. But then they never found a way to really make something truly collectible inadvertently. Like inadvertently they did. But to try to do so, like where they're like, our LEs have 5,000 units and our CEs have 1,000. And everybody's like, no. So historically, never worked. Their games would always tank minus Pirates of the Caribbean. But that was just because it was prematurely cut from production and it was like artificially rare. So Jersey Jack on their last release has abandoned the whole concept of having limits to create value for the long haul. They said out of hell with it. We're just going to get a huge theme and sell as many as we can and there will be no limit to any of it. In the news and rumors and discussions in the pinball medium this week, the past couple of weeks, have been some rumors. I heard this on Flip N Out Pinball Podcast, Greg and Ken. They're saying they were hearing that on this next release, JJP again was going with like an unlimited. They didn't say the unlimited C. I've been hearing unlimited CEs for their next game. But they were indicating that JJP is actually getting rid of, again, the standard slash entry level model moving forward. And they made a really good discussion over there about is this smart? Is it not smart? Why might they be doing this? But ultimately it was – no matter if it was $10,000 to the $12,000 Wizard, Harry Potter to the $15,000 Collector Edition, it still sold significantly lower, that lowest model, than the other models. So the rumor is that Jersey Jack is for their next game. We say the hell with it. We're still going to go unlimited CEs for a time period or whatever. Note that they still haven't marked that time period for Harry Potter and we're at nearly a year later and they still have not said, hey, we're going to we're no longer going to make the CEs. They have not created that time, the time limit. And then their LEs, they're always like 5000 units. You know what? I don't even know if they did that for Harry Potter because it was considered not an Ellie. It's considered a Wizard Edition. So I don't know if there is a limit to the Wizard Edition. I think that Jack had said 5,000 units, but I don't know if that was in writing. I don't know. But isn't it interesting how we've got – the big thing in this industry, in this hobby right now is like some collectability. I think Stern really is Stern is like the hybrid trying to do both. They're trying to mass produce like a Jersey Jack and frankly doing it better than anybody in the industry, maybe since Valley Williams. But they're also trying to lean into that LE. I think they still have some work to do if they want that LE model to be more like that limited availability and value as we're seeing from a Spooky. And like you said, it's hard to play the same game if you got different cards because having cornerstones or having different SKUs, the Pro Premium LE, It's always going to be tough to compete with just a single trim, low production company. But I like that Stern's playing both of them. I still think they need to do a little bit more. They're not far off. They do just a couple things. Their LE can compete with all the other limited stuff just by the differences between the Pro Premium and the LE. Whereas Jersey Jack is saying, eh, we've abandoned all that. We're not chasing the specialty stuff. We're just going to try to sell as many damn games as we can, and we're going to try to make them as beautiful and as loaded as we can, too.
    45:16
    Right. Do you think all these models uniquely work? Do you think one is better than others? And what do you think about the idea of them getting rid of that standard entry-level model?
    45:31
    Makes sense to get rid of the standard. I was a little surprised they bothered to bring it back. I think that they thought with Harry Potter, because of the popularity of the license, they just needed to offer a more affordable option. In fact, I think I probably agreed with it when I first heard about it. But given yet again, it's like the lease selling model. Yeah, they maybe permanently put that one out to pasture because it never has worked for them. I think the problem that they had with it is it's just still too expensive. I agree. If it was priced like the Stern Pro, maybe. Maybe. But then if it's such a corruption of what the original vision is, it's not worth doing. It'll just leave a bad thing. Stern has that market. I don't know if anybody's going to compete with that market. There's never really been anyone who's done it successfully. In fact, you see a lot. Stern just has advantages that no one else is going to have because of the economy of scale that they command. Like this is not physically possible for a for a spooky or even a JJP to build a game at the same price with all the same stuff in it that Stern can. Stern will just do it cheaper because they can buy more product. They get bigger discounts. It's just it's an economy of scale.
    46:42
    I think all of these models work. It depends on what you're I don't think they all work equally well, but it kind of depends what you're after, too. So sometimes it might be the right answer, even if it's maybe not, quote unquote, the most efficient way. So broadly speaking, I think Stern's strategy makes the most sense to me. It's a strategy that's designed to support basically if you want to grow, you can grow. It supports the growth idea and it plays in both pawns. Let's limit to those that want to collect off of rarity and then also give as much of the same theme to as many people as want to buy it can. And they even still keep an eye towards the operator, which almost nobody else honestly is doing much to. And it's a smaller – so they're just – again, because of their size, they're able to target. They target homeowners who just want games. They target homeowners who are all about rarity and exclusivity and the collector mentality, which is – that was a pivot for them as a company, and it's a pivot that has worked. And they're – I agree with you. They definitely could refine it, but that's what they're trying to do. And then there's still that arcade operator market, the route operator that they want to target. JJP, I think they've gotten back to, especially under their current ownership of we're the Cadillac of Pinball. Like we just have to – we don't need to be exclusive. We thought that's what we needed to do, but they did – again, I'll use another watch in a minute. They did the Seiko limited edition model. I have someone who gave it to me a beautiful vintage reissue Seiko watch, and it was a limited edition, Zach, of 15,000. It's like at some point it becomes stupid. Like 5,000 LEs in Pinball is stupid. That's way too many. So like they never really did it right in the first place, in my opinion. But if they're going to be like, we're going to have the most jam-packed games of anybody, you're going to pay for that. But you don't have to worry and stress about getting it. I think them seeing how it performed with Harry Potter where it totally made sense to drop the whole 1,000 CEs. Why? If you're not raising the price on them, you're going to still sell them for $15,000. Why limit yourself to 1,000 of them? Why not sell 2,000 or 5,000 or what you can get? Make your money. If the argument is, well, it's going to cheapen the brand. I don't know. We have not seen proof of that. So let's just let it happen. They don't make money on secondhand sales. So let's just make it happen. And I think smaller companies like Spooky, Barrels and such, it is the safest play to do false scarcity, to set limits, to advertise limits. Because if you're one failure away from putting the company on thin ice, like it's just a bird in the hand. So we're going to use things. We're going to appeal more to those who either want to collect rare things because they like rarity and exclusivity. But we also just need to be sure we sell all of our games out and stuff. So by saying it's a smaller number, that's going to generate. That's what happened with Winchester, right? On retrospect Winchester number should have been doubled But barrels didn know that It was an unknown license I still think they were right They were right to do the size of a run that they did Yes, on hindsight, they should have done more, but I wouldn't have had that hindsight. We're all saying that because of what happened. Especially coming off of Dune. And so it's the smart play for them. The problem will be that model is not conducive. And I get it with Spooky in particular. It's not their goal in any way, shape or form. You will never be the biggest company with that model. It's going to be it's hard to keep up only making 500 of a unit a year. And so it's just a bigger growth perspective, long term perspective. That's tough. Even even if you're selling 500 games a year, it's going to be tough. And the scarcity game itself, it has risks, too. Oh, yes. Where I mean, we remember. I mean, Spooky in part, I think very much remembers when they finally raised the count up beyond where that scarcity really was working with Scooby-Doo.
    50:54
    And they saw what happened with the games secondhand for like Spooky for a long time pre-bug, but for a long time had that issue where they put out a game. The hype would be there because of the theme, the art. Spooky's often had great art on their games. And then the Ultraman thing happens. And it's just like people are still waiting for their game and now the game is disliked. Wow, does that suck. And so that's always a risk when you're playing, which is why I think they've gotten better because they've gotten safer. They're taking less chances with their layout and it's for the best for them. Like with Stern, I would complain. It's like, guys, another fan layout. I get it because they're fun to shoot. But I mean, you guys, you have a lot of them in your catalog. With Spooky, it's like, dude, stick with a fan layout. You guys, you get cute and it just starts to fall apart. So in conclusion, Zach, I think all of the models work for the companies that they are. It's just like I have my as a consumer who doesn't generally go after in pinball exclusivity. I like having stuff that's rarer. I sort of prefer the Stern and JGP style approach, but for smaller companies, it is safer for them to do these limits and really lean into, hey, act now. Act before you can think too much. Bye, bye, bye. That's how they survive. Who says that? Isn't that funny that that's like a thing now in this industry? I mean, you did kind of like foie-gois into the goose.
    52:27
    Force feeding them. So now that they're plumped up, we all feast upon it. So, Dennis, it's interesting that we talk about this because this segues right into our official club member content for this week. And that is this. I think you guys are really going to enjoy this discussion.
    52:47
    Dennis and I, as we've been talking about all the different models that these manufacturers are undergoing and how it's affecting the hobbyist collector community, The operator community, all of that. We wondered what would it take for each of these manufacturers in our hobby right now to take that next big step up, that next level up for each manufacturer? I think it I think it's different. Dennis and I haven't even discussed our thoughts. That's what's going to make this discussion fun. But what would it take? How close are each of these manufacturers? What are some of the things they need to make sure that they take into account before moving up to that nature, before taking that big swing? Should they not take the swing? Maybe someone's next big step is to status quo that shit as long as you can. Maybe there are no big steps that you can take because this is a failing system and a manufacturer that we may not see in the coming years. But each of them, in my opinion, have, you know, we'll play Monday morning quarterback based on our experience and expertise. And yeah, we're going to discuss what the next what's it going to take for that to get you from here where you're at to here. And some of it's really simple. So tune in. All you've got to do is be an official club member of the pinball show at the any of the three levels. The Pro Premium Rurali. No, it's the official club membership level, Nordman level, or the Screaming Goat Club level. So go to patreon.com slash the pinball show. You're going to want to hear that one, I assure you. And maybe think about it before you click on to watch and listen to that viewer. Think about what your thoughts are, what your guesses would be as to what each manufacturer, And see if they compare to ours or whether or not you were thinking about what Dennis and I discuss. And let's talk about it in our official Patreon or Discord channel as well. Become a member today. As Dennis said, bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye, bye. Okay.
    55:04
    So we talked about it at the head of the show. I purchased a giant pinball collection. Holy crap. That was tiring. So we're just going to quickly run through because I've never done this probably after this. I mean, I'd do it again, but oh, boy, I'd probably do it differently. It was 40 crates. Oh, right. Maybe if it involved me. So the thing that I do, as everyone knows, for my business, I'm a pinball distributor, dealer. We buy, sell games, but we sell new games. We sell used games. It's kind of like a car dealership, but it's different because selling a pinball machine is unlike – what do you attribute it to? Selling pianos? No, because people don't – I guess some people collect multiple pianos. I don't know. They really do. Guitars, yes. I don't know about pianos. It's a very unique hobby. It's a toy, but it's a collectible. So it's a collectible toy, but it's priced in a place where kids don't get to buy it. It's really expensive, but it's really heavy and bulky to try to send. There's a lot of things going on with this. It's hard to move. That's a big frustration. That's why I haven't sold several of mine in my garage. I'm just like, God, I'm going to have to take 30 photos, 20 more of the shooter lane, and then I'm going to have to deal with tire kickers. They're going to have to come by the house, so I have to be home for it. It's a pain. So from time to time, we will have as a dealer, people will contact us wanting us to buy a game from them or to trade a game. They want something new, but they really don't want to spend the money. And you guys will have to go to Retro Ralph's. Everybody loves Retro Ralph. On social media, he showed our crate system that we're in the process of doing.
    56:54
    It's not finalized yet, but it's a crate system, and he shows it off. And to make this hobby more enjoyable and easier to trade in games is essentially a crate that comes your games in it. You take it out. You put your used game back in it. Boom. That Amazon shit goes right back the next day. We try to make that simple and easy. So he showcased that. But every once in a while, we'll have a customer that wants to sell their entire collection. Or maybe it's not even one of our customers, but they'll reach out and say, hey, I've got a collection of 10 games. Would you be interested in buying it? There's a lot of coordination with that. There's a lot of, so how in the hell are you going to get 10 games not within typical driving distance to you? And a lot of times when these people want to go sell, sometimes they don't want to be a part of it. They don't want to touch anything. They just want you to pay for it. They want you to have somebody come, pick them all up and get them back to you. So that's difficult. This particular one that I did was 43? I think 43 units. That's a lot of games. So how in the hell do you get 43 units? So we'll do the non-dealer thing. At first, what would you think? How do you get 43 games from somebody's house that does not want to break them down? They don't want to pallet them because that'd be the easy thing. And well, break them down, strap them to a pallet and we'll have STI or a company come by to pick them up. But they don't want to touch them.
    58:22
    Well, OK, so they you wouldn't have to do much touching with STI per se, but OK, you wouldn't have to. But 43 games, I'd hate to see what that bill would be. So I guess you may have been like that bill, if I'm guessing. The game may have been like $15,000 to $20,000 because a single game is like $750,000 to $900,000. Yeah, but if the truck is able to get multiple, maybe you could have reached an arrangement for – But to break them all down in there? Oh, yeah. No? Moving truck. That would probably be my solution if this stuff is not available. It would be like coming in with a moving truck. You wouldn't have to necessarily pallet them.
    59:02
    Like, for example, this is what we've done back with the Kansas State Head Ball Championship. So real, real quick. They used to host that at a like at a convention center. And so they would get games from us collectors around. And the way they got us to do it is, hey, Dennis, you don't have to take your game. We will come to your house with a moving truck. But I would break it down for them ahead of time. So I put it on, you know, I put it on and I plastic wrap it. I'd wrap the legs and then they would go in with a dolly and load it into a moving truck. And they just had – like they were going in the order of the route. So they were – they already had games in there and they'd just secure them. And so it would be like you could do that. You could go in with a moving truck and then you would break the – like it would basically be someone you employ or you'd contract with and break the game down for them. And you could probably – I don't know if you could get all 40 in one moving truck. I think you probably could if you broke them like that, but a big one. So you – it depends. Here's the issue. So all these details matter. It's inside Pinball. So for those of you who don't care, I'm sorry.
    60:06
    So you could technically fit 43 units into a 48 foot semi or a 53 foot semi. The problem with that is that it's very rare for either of those size semis to have a liftgate.
    60:22
    So then you're like, crap. So I need a liftgate because it's residential. It's not like this guy has a dock or anything. So you need a liftgate. Liftgate, now you're looking at 26-foot trucks, 20, 26-foot trucks. And in that case, they do not all fit in one truck. So now you're looking at two trucks, so double the expense, but that's still part of it. The other issue is if the owner doesn't want to break them all down and have them ready, then you can't just have Fred, the moving guy, do it. Right. Because Fred doesn't know how to. You would probably have to go out there. Or you would have to find somebody in that area to contract out to break those all down. I don't know how that conversation would go. If they're an operator, I'd probably reach out to operators first and say, hey, I'd be willing to offer. How much would you charge to break down 43 games and let's say 15 to 20 of them down a set of stairs with a landing and to load them into a lift gate to package them correctly?
    61:19
    I could not imagine how much somebody would charge for that. I would probably charge by the game for the breakdown. And then if I was being fair about it, I would then charge separate for any that were stairs for moving them. So let's say I would ask for $15 a game for breakdown. Oh, God. I would have hired you.
    61:39
    Because how long does the breakdown take normally? I mean, I got to get the balls out of the game. But otherwise, you know, but I've broken down a few games. It doesn't take me too long. I can break them down solo. Breaking down number 25 is different than number two. That's true. I would have forgotten that. So you'd have gotten a good deal because I'd been like, whatever. I'll just have to have my ibuprofen. So yeah, 15 at let's say 43. That's $645. That is cheap labor. I would have signed up for that. This is the breakdown. That wasn't any of the moving. That's me just putting it up on its butt. Okay, $645. And then stairs for 15 of them. I don't even know if you don't have an escalator. Is it a straight shot or is there a landing? It was sold as a straight shot. There's a landing. Okay, it's $15 for straight shots. It's $30 for landing. 30 times, let's say 30 times 15 is another 450 plus 675.
    62:37
    Say you're about $1,125 for, man, I was still done. I would have probably paid upwards of, well, hindsight prior to. Yeah, that's the thing, hindsight. Like compared to STI, you'd be saying, oh, yeah, I'd pay you, I'd pay 5,000 for someone to do all this for me. I could see that. Yeah, like if I knew that I didn't have to worry about it and they'd get here. So needless to say, it damn near broke me. It was not financially, it physically damn near broke me. It was, I don't want to sound like a puss here, but man, it was a lot of work and it sucked.
    63:20
    It sucked. So just coordinating it, what we ended up doing was renting two. We actually contracted two trucks out. I was going to – me and Tim who works with us, we were going to go each have a truck, drive there six hours away. It's about a six-hour drive. Load them up, take them back. But I thought I'll just contract two drivers like I do if Stern has 20 games ready to go through a shipping broker. I contract a dedicated truck to go out there, fill up the truck and drive to my shop and I pay for that. So I was like, I'll do that. So me and Tim drove in the flipping out van to guys house the day before, broke them all down, got them down the stairs, got them all kind of ready to go. And then that next morning I had two trucks staggered, one at 6 a.m., one at 8 a.m., loaded up the first one, sent them on their way to our shop, loaded up the second one, sent them on their way to the shop. And then we drove back to the shop and then unloaded all that damn things. So that worked out well. Would have worked out better if that second truck wasn't fucking two hours late, but whatever. So that was the detail. So, yeah, and that's the other thing. It's a lot of money, too. Somebody calls you and says, hey, do you want to buy my 40-plus game collection? How do you pay them? Do you wire them money? Do you have luggage cases full of cash? Do you cashiers check it? Cashiers check is not a bad idea. So that's another whole thing. So people are like, what games did you get, Zach? That's all I care about.
    64:58
    What we'll do, we'll run down some of these. I think the biggest pain was probably dealing with the stairs and all of that stuff.
    65:06
    But that's pretty normal for any pinball move, the stairs. That's my least favorite part. Nicest surprise. The nicest surprise was, honestly, that the guy was nice enough to give me. Stern sells this new little LED light. It reminds me of Logan Arcade, the side, and it sticks on the wall. It's like a little LED thing. He was like, hey, do you want this? I end up buying it. I never hung it up since you're buying the whole collection. Do you want this? I was like, I don't want to take it. And he's like, yeah, given that those two games over there weren't as advertised. Yeah, sure. I'll take this. And so that was a nice little surprise. But that's the other thing. Like when you get there, efficiency wise, there's no real great way to test that many games to really look over that many games to see if what you guys terms wise agreed upon.
    66:02
    Whether there was issues and then what do you do whenever there are issues like half of the JJPs didn't work because of the fucking battery issue. So you don't have time to pull out a keyboard and all that shit, which is my argument about that whole system in the first place. But do you just hope it works? Do you reduce the price? If you reduce the price, then you're in a person's home negotiating a price for something.
    66:29
    You just try to I try to do what's right and just eat it and have so much built in that, you know. So that was that was tough. Other things are like if there's a bump on a head or something and they're supposed to be pristine, no issues with anything. But you're going to really look over 43 games worth of pictures and videos. I don't have time for that. So we tried to quickly play them, make sure the main features, but that's time consuming in and of itself.
    67:00
    All right. So of these games, most of them were modern Sterns. It was cool that in this collection that we purchased, we purchased, this guy had every Jersey Jack game. So we purchased every title that Jersey Jack has made. That was neat. Same with CGC remakes. He had every single CGC remake, LE version. So that was in the bundle as well. The other games were predominantly Stern. There was one American Pinball, Houdini, in there. But everything else was all Sterns and they were all premium or LE models. There was a couple odd ones. There were two VP games, two virtual pinball machine games. One was a stand-up upright wall unit and the other was a standard pinball machine looking thing. I don't know anything about them, so I don't know if they worked. I have no clue. I didn't even know what the value meant. Is there a secondary market for virtual pinball machines? There probably is. You know, I have one that my dad and I built, and I've wondered if I were to sell it. I have no idea how to price it because, you know, we installed force feedback and all that. It's a pretty sleek thing. Yeah, so I don't know. There was a Royal Thrills Play Mechanics Big Buck Hunter reloaded in there, so that was kind of cool. But a lot of different games. I will say, oh, Arcade Legends. There's a stand-up Arcade Legends game. Again, I don't know what those damn things go for. Overall, the games were super, super nice. This guy was very much a collector. But it was crazy then because he had a normal-sized house, big house, normal-sized house.
    68:52
    But they were in, where are you going to put 40-something games? They were taking up all kinds of rooms throughout the whole throughout the whole house. And I think he had a home here in a home in a different state. But he says his wife was finally like, hey, you know, we're getting older. Is there any way you can maybe reduce this a little bit so we can get some of our house back? And he just made the decision. You know what? I don't play him as much. I just I like collecting them, but I don't play him as much. I'll just keep one game in rotation. Any guess as to what game that he kept in rotation? I'll give you a guess or I'll give you a hint. It was one of the newer games that have come out because he thought, I'm just going to keep one game in rotation at all times. Any guess? Jaws 50th. That's a good guess. He did end up trading his Jaws LE into us or selling it, but it was Harry Potter. Harry Potter CE. So that was the only I take that back to the caveat with the JJP game. That was the only one that he did not sell. So he's going to keep his Harry Potter for now. And then he said, you know, once the newest game comes out that everybody wants, he'll probably trade that in to us for and to swap it. I was I was going to ask if he kept anything or if he liquidated it. So he really did liquidate almost liquidated at all. There was another game that he did not have on his list as we were counting. I kept I was counting one extra and I'm like, let's call him Pete. I was like, Pete, we agreed to 43 games. I keep counting 44. And I was like, and I don't want to take something I didn't pay for. So let's figure out what the hell is this game? And it ended up being a.
    70:37
    It was a Pac-Man. It was like the new Pac-Man, you know, 50 and one games. It was upstairs. So we finally figured that out. And he was like, do you want that game? And I'm like, I don't even know how to sell the other virtual pin. So I don't even know what the market is. I was like, do you find a need for it? And he was like, I can sell it. And he was like, do you think you could take it down the steps for us though? I'm like, why not? So we took it down the steps for him. But yeah, so that was the one. All right. Well, what's the least valuable game out of all of those? Has to be one of those virtual pinball machines because I don't. Yeah, I think so. Or the Arcade Legends because I don't. I mean, maybe Arcade Legends. I mean, if it was the pinball machines, keep in mind, viewer, all of them were 100 plays, 200 plays, tops, all pretty much. I didn't see a ding on a damn one of them. And of those games, I'm trying to think what the lowest valued one would be. Maybe I'm looking at any games. There were some. That's what I'm looking at. Maybe Walking Dead Premium you had. It's probably the lowest of my list.
    71:54
    Dialed ins don't go for much anymore. No, they never did. Yeah. So I would say maybe that there was a Spider-Man, But it was the Vault. I think those probably go for a little bit more than the Walking Dead Premium.
    72:11
    The Hobbits aren't going for, they're doing okay, but not a ton. ACDC Premiums, those don't go for much anymore, especially with the rumor of another coming out. Metallica Premium, the original one. Yeah, the original one. Yeah, and some people still like that. That's true, that's true.
    72:31
    Walking Dead may be the best bet with the better art remake. I think so. That's probably the right one. I know what it is. Houdini. Houdini is the lowest valued out of all of those. Yeah. So it would be the Houdini. The highest valued one.
    72:46
    I would say the most valuable out of that bunch. Pirates, right? Yeah, probably the Pirates of the Caribbean, Jersey Jack. But there are some higher end ones in there, though, even though they're all pretty much standard. It's not like you have some big rare birds all chromed out. No, they're pretty much stock. I would say the Elton John Collector's Edition, those still go for a really good amount, even more so now than a year ago because you can't really find them anymore. Jaws LE go for a nice chunk. Iron Maiden LE, those go for a lot still. The Pirates of the Caribbean, yes, of course.
    73:25
    The Munsters, you had a limited edition Munsters with Topper, so that goes for pretty good bucks. Deadpool LE, those go for good bucks. Oh, and he did have – this is the one selfishly out of all of them. Which one do you want to – are you excited to get back at the shop and selfishly play for yourself? It was actually one of the highest pirates. I always like playing pirates, but it was the Elwin James Bond, what, 60th anniversary? Is that what it was? 60th anniversary.
    73:55
    Yeah, I've never played it. Yeah, I just – that's the one I want to get again because every time I play it, I really like it. It's kind of like that throwback game, but it still is contemporary and it's not the prettiest game, but it's cool. So I'm looking forward to playing that one. Oh, there was a Star Trek Premium in there. I love that game too. Such a good game. Yeah. So overall, it was one hell of an experience.
    74:25
    And also, for anyone listening that's like, shit, I want to message Zach to see what he wants. No, so we can't respond to anybody at this point on, hey, let me know before you list it how much it's going to be and how many, because, yeah, I will throw my phone. It would be too chaotic. Not that I done that before but we have to It makes more sense for us just to list them for sale and then take interest thereafter We can I will get flooded if I take ever Well you said you had a medieval madness coming in What that like You don have to list it Let me know how much it No Oh God No that is too much work I have hundreds of messages So anybody interested, hold off. Just keep an eye out on our Flippin Out Pinball Facebook page. We'll list all of them as we get them set up and everything. Oh, and as a reminder, this is my public service announcement. If you've heard this before, I'm okay with you hearing it again because you need to be reminded. Just from my own experience, when you're breaking down a game and you're wrapping it up, whether you're shipping it or whether somebody's picking it up or you're taking it somewhere, there are some things to make sure you're doing. Dennis, what's my one thing you do not put between the head of a game and the body of a game when you're folding it down? Cardboard. Thank you. Do not use cardboard. Also, whatever you are using in between the head, make sure it's not abrasive. You would think things are not abrasive, but just make sure it's not. It's easy to do. Cardboard's abrasive and it's not enough padding, especially on the newer Jersey Jack games. Here's another thing. When you're wrapping it up, you can use straps, the ratchet strap to ratchet the head to the body. Just be careful because that metal is going to have to go somewhere. Also be careful. Those straps can be abrasive if they are in the back of a truck and you've got wiggling for hundreds of miles. The decals could be worn because the newer decals, especially if they're like screen printed back in the Valley Williams days, you want to be really careful because you can't really fix that. So around the corners of where that strap is going, be careful. That's why I do like to use the wrap. Plastic, yeah. Yeah, plastic wrap. I hate that it's not environmentally friendly, but it is easy to use. It's safe. Yeah. So do that. Easy to remove too. Easy to remove as well. So I do like the plastic wrap. The best bet is honestly not to plug for plug's sake here to shill, but barrels of fun. They sell that what they call pinball armor, and it's fantastic. It's that it's I don't know what material it's made of, but like a thick cloth material. It comes in three pieces. You slip the thing over the head, fold the head down. That has big Velcro straps that go around the cabinet. So no wrap needed, no ratchet straps needed. You just do that. And then you have this other big thing that goes over the whole game and has all Velcro and then you take off the legs and it's all secure in one thing. It's fantastic. I didn't have 40 of those because they are rather pricey, but that's really nice. And then for Jersey Jack games, so Pinball homework doesn't work for Jersey Jack games. The dimensions don't work, but for JJP games, don't just put down something in between the head and stuff. On the newer games, those heads are so heavy. They have the monitor back there that oftentimes, Godfather, Avatar, they have these heavy toppers. They have a lot of weight. So the weight when it folds down onto the body of that game, you don't want to just put something down so it doesn't scratch the rails. You want to put padding or foam down so it doesn't dent the rails. It sounds crazy, but it does not take much to slightly dent the rail and it'll drive you nuts because at certain angles you'll see a little dent in the rails. Also, you want to put pads down on a stern. See if you see anything else, you put it right down where the head folds close to the lock bar, right? On a Jersey Jack with their new design, a design that I'm not crazy about on their heads, but in the back of the head too where the head comes down because it rubs on the back of that rail too, believe it or not. They have a design with their hinge that does not leave a gap like Stern's and everything else in the back of that head. So you want to kind of brace that in the back with that. You can do more. You don't want it to rub because you don't want to put too much foam or anything in the back because of the lack of space. It could force more pressure to blow out the bottom of the head. So it's a fine thing to do. I'm hoping Jersey Jack or anybody there, if you guys are listening, please, can we consider, it may be too late for this next game, but can we consider just adjusting maybe the hinges just to draw the head up a little bit? There's a couple ideas I have. It would just save so much money for people who have to repair these things. But secure your JJP games because you don't want to ding them up. You don't want to ding them up. Some of those parts are hard to get to. And then what else? I think that's pretty much it. If you don't want to tear up the back of the game, make sure to have something down. They have those little nubs for shipping purposes. They sit and you can kind of slide and scoot a little bit. Just be very careful for that, too, because not to harp on Jersey Jack here, but they have these rails with the nubs. Their nubs are historically always too little. They're these cheap little nubs. They always break off. And when they break off, then they have a nail in them. So then you start scooting around. Then you're at somebody's house. You're picking up a game. You start scooting around. You scratch their hardwood floors. You pop their tile or anything like that. They're not going to be very happy. So and they're going to tear up the back of the game. And that's not a deal breaker for most people. But when you see a game scratched all the hell in the back, you're like, how is this taken care of? So this may be boring to a lot of people. But to others, it's still boring, but a good reminder. It's like the floss daily kind of thing. Flossing daily is tough. I'm not going to lie. At least once a week. This is your reminder. It's not fun to hear about flossing every week. But if you're in pinball, just be prepared. Do these kind of things. And yeah, nothing, nothing else. Take the balls out. Make sure to take the balls out. That's it. That's my public service announcement. We got to thank some people. They're Screaming Goat Club people. They're the biggest supporters. We love them more than all the other people. Sorry. This is true. And maybe we have to clarify, when we talk about free Patreon, we don't mean, we do not mean the free listeners.
    81:27
    On Patreon, you have the ability, this used to not be the case, but you have the ability to become a free Patreon member.
    81:34
    There is no point to doing that with the Pinball show because we don't publish anything to the free group on Patreon. There's the free episodes, which you don't need to be on Patreon at all to get. So that's not the same thing as when we were making fun of the free Patreon. It was actually joining Patreon but not joining Patreon, which we don't understand. If you want to be a free listener, we love you very much and thank you for your support. And that has nothing to do with Patreon whatsoever. Thank you for that clarification. Yeah, we did get a comment in YouTube interpreting us last episode when we're like, I don't understand why you'd sign up to the Patreon stuff for free because we don't offer anything for the free members of that. The person on YouTube watching our video interpreted us poo-pooing all of you viewers in general, like us poo-pooing the people who don't pay for the Patreon. And nothing could be further from the truth there. We absolutely – we've been doing this for closer to 10 years, and we absolutely – we know of the value of each and every one of you. And fully support you and very much appreciate all of that. So I could see how they got that mixed up. But no, we very much value everybody that watches and listens. You'd have to have been on Patreon in the system to know that they added this free member. And we get notifications about it. It's like, but they're not really members. It's like we never asked for that category to be added because you don't need it. Yeah. So that's what we were joshing around about last episode. But if you want to sign up to that free Patreon, I'm sure, why not? It doesn't matter. But thank you. Thank you, Rodney, for being the bobcat of this team here. We appreciate your continued support. Does Rodney – what's the next manufacturer that Rodney buys? Does he buy the next Stern? He does. Does he buy the next JJP? What's the next game he's going to buy?
    83:31
    Stern Transformers. Is it going to be the LE variety? Uh, yeah, I think he will get the Ellie. Okay. All right. I agree. Oh, shoot that fucker! I agree. I'm going with Stern Ellie there. Rob, thanks for the continued support. Panther, Snarroll.
    83:51
    Rob, I think Rob's next game is going to be the next JJP. Does he go C? Now, I think, I don't know why I'm feeling this. I think he goes Ellie. Hmm. JJP Ellie for some reason. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe he will go see. But I'm feeling JJP for him. Okay. Frank. What about Frank? Yeah. Frank might be waiting for the next spooky. Okay. You going next spooky? Yeah, I think he wants the next spooky. Yeah, he'll definitely buy that. I'm going to guess Stern. I think he'll get the next Stern as well. Okay. Charlie, Charles, Chuck. Would you go by Chuck if your name is Charlie?
    84:41
    No. I think I'd go by Charles. Charlie, thanks for the continued support. Ding dong, you can ring my bell. Ding dong and thank you. I'm going to go. What's Charlie going to get next? He's probably waiting for that next original new license from CGC. Oh, really? Yeah. The collab. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mary, you're saying that. I'm saying barrels. William, the dude, our bud. Were you listening to the dude story, Donnie? Also, dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American. So the rumor has been, this is a rumor. It's a rumor. Almost a rumor corner rumor that William has decided he's doing the No More Pinball Machines in 26 challenge.
    85:29
    No, he's not. I have not heard that rumor at all. No, quite the contrary. It's just like, it's like a fast. He's going to do a fast.
    85:41
    He's just like, you know what? This ain't trough jam. I'm going to wait. Oh, Lord. No, Dennis. He is not doing that at all. Jeez.
    85:54
    Don't listen to him, William. You know what? Show Dennis who's bossing you by the next two Stern Elec. By two of them.
    86:06
    Damn. Oh, man. William and I do have fun not only talking pinball, but we share a hobby of like vehicles, too, and the car stuff. And I love talking to that guy. But, yeah, here's what William's going to buy. Just the next. Elec, that's what he's going to buy. That's what he will buy. What about you, Papa? What about Big Papa? Big Papa. Thank you, Adam. Yeah, I do think he's going to go for the Stern LE, but I think he also wants to get the next JJP. So maybe LE for both of those, though. So not CE for JJP.
    86:48
    Yeah, who gets CE? He can't help himself. Well, I just I can remember if he's if he was a big Sega fan or not. Fasha! Oh, what? Adam is big into Fallout, if that rumor comes to remember. Yeah, but that's not what's rumored next. Yeah, no, that's an L.E. for sure, but we're not talking about that yet. Okay, yeah, he'll be in. Adam's big into that. What about... Oh, what's that? I thought I heard a... Oh, the hunt for his next L.E., Ted. Thanks for all the continued support. I would have liked to have seen Montana. I still need to watch that again. No reference to any of this shit.
    87:37
    Ted? Ted's a wild card. Yeah, I've heard he's holding out for snorks. That's the water theme. A water baby.
    87:50
    I'm going to go with... Let's go with... Let's go with Stern Pro. Let's go with Stern Pro there. I think he's going to dip his toes into Stern Pro. All of these water references.
    88:08
    Thanks, Davis. We appreciate your continued support and being a Screaming Goat Club member. I'm not treating you to lunch anymore. Not that there's anything wrong with that. You're our Costanza, the Vandalay Industries.
    88:22
    Do you think a Seinfeld game works? I know we talked about that. No, I don't. I think you could make it work, but it's tough. I'm sure there's a way, but I just don't see anyone doing it. And he never either. I think he's waiting for the next barrel, so I think that's what he wants. That sounds like a good one. Yeah, that's going to happen. Doug, thanks for your continued support. Will we ever have another golf theme that might incorporate a gopher? It's possible as a roommate. Spooky is already looking close. They're ready. Maybe he's going for the next Spooky. Maybe. I think he's in for the next Spooky game. Yeah, he's definitely in.
    89:06
    I think Spooky could pull off a Caddyshack Pinball machine. Yeah, I agree. Wait up, girls. I got a salami I got to hide still. You're going to want the next one there, Doc. I assure you. Wally. What's it going to take, Wally? For you to buy that next movie. And Wally, I know, is a huge CGC remake collector. You're talking in circles. You're talking like we didn't go over this already.
    89:32
    He does other stuff, too. I wonder if he has Attack from Mars. I thought he did. I thought he told me he had all of them. So we know he's going to buy the next CGC. But here's the real question. Will he buy the next remake that comes out? And I'm paying $19.5 for this movie. Because it may be closer than the whole thing. The circus from a – yeah, I bet he will. I bet he'll give it a shot. So he's in on AP's circus. What if there was a different remake from a different company? No, I only know that one. So that's the only one I'm saying. All right. I'll talk to my boss. We love you, Wally. Thank you. Check us out over at Discord as an official club member. Remember, just go to patreon.com slash the pinball show. Sign up. The support really helps us and it's very much appreciated. So so do that today. Happy Hour Hangout is going to be scheduled during our next episode, so keep that in mind. Until then, Dennis, where can people catch you? They want to find you. Well, they can email me at collectedgamerspodcast.gmail.com. Catch them all. Catch all the creasals.
    90:36
    People did like that little Easter egg joke, picking up the poo to my kid. They liked that. Yeah. They liked that. I don't care. It's pretty funny. It's so funny. Next time you see a little dog, Terry, do you think of it?
    90:53
    Yeah, you can email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. Follow us, like us, subscribe to us. It's on YouTube. It's pretty simple. We're right at 1,000 subscribers, which is kind of embarrassing. But you know what? It's because you have not followed and subscribed yet. Yes, I'm going the shame angle at this point. Please follow, like, and subscribe. But if given the choice, sign up to patreon.com slash the pinball show. If given the choice, but for extra brownie points, do them both. And Facebook, you know, I've been dropping some, cutting some short form media there. Some of the highlights, if you will, from our regular episodes. So those are nice and fun to share and to watch. So you're only going to see those on YouTube and Facebook at this point. So do that. Straight down the middle of a YouTube series. Go check out that that I'm part of. Follow, like, and subscribe. Eclectic Gamers podcast that Dennis is a part of. Follow, like, and subscribe to that. And the sponsor of the show, we don't want to forget, bye, bye, bye, from Flippin' Out Pinball.
    92:11
    Feed it out when I buy, buy, buy, I buy from flipping out. Buy, buy, buy. Product showcase this week. Oh, I didn't even tell people. So it's Harry Potter Wizard Edition. We had some on back order. They had told us that they're done making them until the fall. But they were able to rustle up a handful of them for us for this recent shipment. So as of right now, this recording, we do have a couple Harry Potter Wizard Editions. Bye, bye, bye. We still have some CEs as well. But yeah, those once they're gone, we're going to it's going to be until the fall. So if you're fine, wait until the fall and just wait till the fall. But if not, if you'd like one now, get to get it. Pokemon Pro and Premium, as we talked about at the top of the show, those are going to be produced in the next couple of weeks here. We do have open spots at Flip N Out Pinball for those. So submit your order for those now so that you don't have to get bumped to the third. Where the hell's a code for Pokemon? Code update.
    93:15
    I'm sure it's coming. FN Licensure. Just like the Chosen One. The Licensure. Chosen One. Where's the top?
    93:25
    Where's all the stuff at? Where's the code, Stern? Yeah. That's a lot of nuts.
    93:34
    I like Kung Pao. At some point, we'll get it. And seven people will buy it. Barrels, put Carl on that as the next game.
    93:49
    We trained him wrong as a joke. I used to be able to do a lot of the Odakirk voices from that. Do you think we could sell a hundred units?
    94:04
    Yes, but you'd have to work for it. I mean, it's so fun. It's so fun. When I first went and saw it in the theater. I'm so envious that you saw it in the theater, by the way. I didn't love it the first time because I didn't know they were going to do a lot of insertion into old film, but yeah, it really grew on me. Yes, Steve Oderkirk vehicle. So I still – because I'm a nerd, I play a number of video games. And one of the ones I still play is Marvel Rivals. It's a competitive game. And you can play as Namor, the fish boy dude. And he has an ultimate attack where he summons a whale every time. I go, whale. Oh, that's not your week as I summon my whale because I have to. I'm trying to think what Steve – oh, yeah. I think he's more known as a writer. He did a lot of comedy writing, but he wrote and directed and stars in that movie. And I wondered why it just clicked with me so much. Some of this work that he has done, I think is underappreciated and I've always been a huge fan of, so it makes sense to me. So like In Living Color, he was a writer for In Living Color. And as a kid, I loved In Living Color, watched the hell out of it. Also, the just grossly underappreciated Ace Ventura, When Nature Calls. Him and Jim Seri were very close and created that. I think he may have helped create the initial Ace Ventura as well. Yeah, I don't know, but I know he wrote When Nature Calls. I like to imagine that it was his idea for the rhino birthing scene.
    95:56
    That rhino came up for sale not too long ago, and I thought about it. I didn't have a place to put it. It feels very much like something he would write. The Nutty Professor, this guy was great. Yeah, loading up real quick, he was a consultant on Pet Detective. Okay. I thought the premise, him and Jim Carrey during the In Living Color days came up with some late nights, came up with the premise of Ace Ventura. All right. Buy all the games and all the accessories from us because it does help. If we are 2026 is a growth year for flipping out pinball. We're really trying. We're adding team members. We're trying to change the way people trade in games. We are overhauling a website right now. We're just I'm trying to push a lot of my chips into the hole. Let's make this a better process for the industry kind of thing, and we'll see if it pays off. Maybe it doesn't. But we have some really fun stuff that we're planning and working for. That's why not seeing me do a lot of stuff media wise or otherwise, but really trying to push for all that. And special shout out to the rest of my team at Flip N Out Pinball, Nicole, Greg, Ken, Tim, and Sarah. You guys are freaking killing it and couldn't do it without you, I assure you. Believe me, you all know me. I would try to and I have tried to, but I can't. It's just too much. Okay, trade a game in. Make it easy. Trade it in. Flip N Out Media Channels, YouTube. Joel is doing an Iron Man tutorial that will be up soon. I did a video showcasing that giant collection that I purchased. So jump along on the ride, watch that video. Flip N Out Pinball Podcast with Ken and Greg. Go listen and follow and like and subscribe to that as well. Dennis, these people want to learn something and you're there to help them. Okay. Well, if you are a pinball collector or planning to be a pinball collector and you have a house and the house happens to have stairs and you're trying to figure out where to put your games, the answer is actually easier than you might need to make it. You need to sell your house and buy one without stairs. Are you a pinball knight or are you merely a squire? Choose wisely. And always practice safe pinball. And as I discussed, I made that pitch. I'll say this to close out the show. I made that pitch last episode. I remember when I tried to create a live business deal on the podcast to American Pinball to make my own version of Circus Voltaire reimagined. I did get a response from the owner of American Pinball and said, what is this I'm hearing that you're making deals on your podcast and pitching me? I need to consider a side deal with you. So yeah, he was doing it all in fun and games. However, I'm still thinking to myself, if you're up for a Circus Voltaire and you like the idea of my edition, reach out to me and let me know because I would like to hear how much interest there is in something. The short of it was this. The Circus Voltaire coming out reimagined is loaded down new artwork, new everything, topper, all of the powder coat and everything. And then they're going to have a classic, more standardized version that's just like what we were seeing in the 90s. I think there might be something in between there, something that says, I love the classic artwork and all of the feel of what makes it Circus Voltaire. But with maybe some of the upgrades like a topper, some chrome trim instead of powder coat, that, that's the Flip N Out edition. And if you're interested in that, message us. Let us know if that would be your preference over the others.
    99:46
    I think that's it.