Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

The Pinball Show Ep 174 BONUS: Behind The Scenes Of Trough Jam 2025 Phase 2 Game Releases

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·36m 52s·analyzed·Apr 22, 2025
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Distributor details chaos behind April 2025 pinball launch window: unclear JJP rules, licensing issues, dealer conflicts, and simultaneous game releases.

Summary

Zach Sharpe, a pinball distributor for Stern, Jersey Jack, and Barrels of Fun, provides behind-the-scenes account of the chaotic Trough Jam 2025 Phase 2 game release window (early-to-mid April 2025). He details licensing delays, unclear communication from Jersey Jack about Harry Potter preorder rules, dealer rule violations, domain ownership controversies, and rapid-fire simultaneous launches of Dune and King Kong that created logistical stress across the dealer network.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack's Harry Potter announcement on April 8th, 2025 instructed dealers not to take deposits, but ambiguous phrasing led to widespread confusion and some dealers taking money anyway

    high confidence · Zach Sharpe describing JJP's email to dealers; confirmed by Dennis's recollection of the rules

  • Jersey Jack provided only two official images (Shooter Run with golden snitch for Collector's Edition, matte black for Wizard Edition) and forbade use of any other Harry Potter licensed imagery to avoid Warner Brothers licensing issues

    high confidence · Zach Sharpe recounting Jack Guarneri's instructions in the dealer email

  • Zach secured HarryPotterPinball.com domain in 2020/2021 and created a landing page to drum up preorders, which drew criticism from other dealers and community members

    high confidence · Zach Sharpe's detailed account of domain strategy and community backlash

  • Barrels of Fun released teaser images and trailer for Dune before the full trailer, partly to get ahead of the King Kong launch momentum

    medium confidence · Zach discussing Barrels' strategy and timing; speculation about licensing/asset constraints

  • Stern held their King Kong dealer seminar at 10 a.m. with launch at 11 a.m. on April 15th, creating a compressed window for dealers to prep marketing

    high confidence · Zach describing the timeline and his frustration with rapid-fire reveals

  • Dune trailer was released around 3 p.m. on April 15th, the same day as King Kong's 11 a.m. launch, forcing dealers to juggle two simultaneous product launches

    high confidence · Zach detailing the compressed timeline and his workload

  • Jersey Jack has a history of not enforcing distributor contract rules, having previously allowed price-cutting that went against advertised restrictions

    medium confidence · Dennis referencing past distributor rule violations and JJP's inconsistent enforcement

  • Licensing approval delays from studio companies (e.g., Dune film studios) often cause manufacturers to miss deadlines, forcing either compromised launches or extended waiting periods

Notable Quotes

  • “Well, there were some dealers taking money on a product you had not even seen yet. That's not right, is it?”

    Zach Sharpe @ mid-episode — Highlights the core problem: dealers circumventing manufacturer guidance to gain competitive advantage

  • “The whole Jersey Jack reveal release for Harry Potter is very very weird to me... it feels like panic. They've got the best theme of the year easily. Why are they acting so strange?”

    Dennis (co-host) @ mid-episode — Expresses concern about JJP's cautious/secretive approach to their flagship license

  • “We can't have anything nice in pinball because there's some dumb dick dealers out there that will just leak stuff.”

    Zach Sharpe @ late episode — Explains why manufacturers don't extend dealer preview periods or NDAs in pinball (unlike watch industry)

  • “The first impression on a product such as this is so, so crucial and important to the sales of a game.”

    Zach Sharpe @ closing segment — Underscores dealer frustration with poor launch optics and timing

  • “It's like wanting to have tea with a quarterback during the Super Bowl. No, I've got to focus on one thing.”

    Zach Sharpe @ mid-episode — Illustrates the intensity and exclusivity of launch day for dealers

  • “So I've got to follow the rules. I went and edited this podcast really quick.”

    Zach Sharpe @ mid-episode — Shows the time pressure dealers face when licensing rules change mid-campaign

  • “I think they thought it was pretty damn smart and good hustle work, and they probably were kicking themselves in the ass for not having it.”

    Zach Sharpe @ mid-episode — Reveals JJP's internal view of his HarryPotterPinball.com initiative was positive

  • “The Stern thing... they go live before that community drop box for the official pictures and stuff. That's why I have to jump on Stern social media to start saving their pictures from Facebook.”

Entities

Zach SharpepersonDennispersonJack GuarneripersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyBarrels of Fun ManufacturingcompanySpooky PinballcompanyWarner Brotherscompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Three major game announcements/launches occurred within 48 hours in mid-April 2025: Harry Potter (JJP, April 8 email; pre-orders without seeing product), King Kong (Stern, April 15 11 a.m.), and Dune (Barrels, teaser April 14 evening, trailer April 15 ~3 p.m.), creating unprecedented dealer logistical stress

    high · Zach's detailed timeline of April dates and dealer workload; confirmed by Dennis

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Jersey Jack severely restricted promotional imagery for Harry Potter to only two official photos due to Warner Brothers licensing constraints; dealers forbidden from using other Harry Potter IP imagery without explicit approval

    high · Jack Guarneri's email instructions cited by Zach; quote: 'Warner Brothers is going to kick us in the nuts if you do this'

  • ?

    product_concern: Jersey Jack's instruction that dealers should not take deposits for Harry Potter was ambiguously worded, creating confusion about whether it applied to JJP itself or the entire dealer network; some dealers violated guidelines and accepted money anyway

    high · Zach's detailed account of misinterpreting the 'royal we' phrasing and subsequent dealer rule violations

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Dennis expressed concern that Jersey Jack's cautious, secretive approach to Harry Potter (no product reveal, pricing/name only) signals panic despite having the year's strongest IP license

    medium · Dennis quote: 'It feels like panic... Why are they so scared?'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Dealer seminar for King Kong was scheduled 1 hour before launch (10 a.m. seminar, 11 a.m. launch), leaving no buffer for dealers to prepare marketing or take early orders; dealers manually screenshotted social media images to populate websites

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.111

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. Dennis, are we ready for Inside Trough Jam 2025 Phase 2?
0:25
This is like the VH1 behind the... Behind the, what is it, what did they call it? Behind the music. Behind the pinball. VH1s was stuck balls and flaky switches. Oh, man. The truth behind phase two. What you didn't know. So this is Inside Baseball for those of you interested. We're going to run through this timeline really quick, but I'm going to give you some of the emotions and some of the behind-the-scenes stuff as I was prepping as an official distributor of pinball machines that many of you may not have realized was going on. It was super stressful over the last week and a half for us pinball dealers, especially the ones that sell for both Barrels of Fun Manufacturing, Jersey Jack Pinball, and Stern Pinball, as well as other stuff. So whenever this thing first came out, Dennis, and you can add to it as you see fit, But so barrels starts teasing stuff early, like April 3rd, April 8th, April 7th, all that. And then when we got the Jersey Jack thing, the barrels teases were fine, didn't affect anything. I was talking with the barrels administration. I'm pretty close to them. So I was talking behind the scenes on not that they're listening to me, but if they're asking my general thoughts on ways to release, ways to announce, How would you go about this, Zach, knowing the timing of things, knowing this? There were also license or approval things that they were waiting on. So they throw that into the whole mess of this cluttered log jam. Well, it is a major complication factor that they had to deal with, unfortunately. Well, a lot of times studio companies, especially if you're doing films for like Dune, like studio companies will tell you their goal is to have something approved by this time and they just don't and they don't you know they're busy too so they're doing other stuff sometimes stuff happens sometimes it doesn't or they'll come back with something minor but even the minor thing once you correct it has to get re-approved again so all manufacturers deal with this and the reason i know that is because not all dealers know that but some dealers that are that work closely with the manufacturers know that and i have the added insight of like when we're doing official marketing promotional stuff like feature ads or different sizzle reels when i'm working with companies like spooky or jersey jack i know kind of behind the scenes and it's always a licensing issue or a parts thing so there's a there's all kinds of stuff that that goes on that the public isn't privy to and sometimes whenever things are released it may not look like it was it's ideal and it probably isn't for them either so it can be messy. Or sometimes they absolutely had all the control in the world and they just botched it. So that happens too. People are emotional creatures, Dennis. And they make decisions sometimes based on emotion. That's what happens. So the barrel stuff, they even knew that the time window is tight. There was thoughts about releasing it, TPF, but some things weren't ready, some things couldn't be. So do you compromise a release? releasing some stuff if some stuff isn't ready so it can be hectic but then what really dropped uh dropped a bomb was this whole jersey jack email jumping on stage is what i called it on april 8th because i in our minds as a dealer we're like okay we know stern's thing is coming while they tease on the 11th but we know it's getting dropped on the 15th and then we had the whole barrels thing i felt like they were going to gear up to drop so i was like emotionally and mentally prepping myself for oh this is going to be this can be one hell of a week sack but then once that happened when jersey jack emailed so jack when i emailed dealers and on the 8th of april so right before all this other stuff dropped and said hey here's all the info it this is after tpf so they want to make it official from dealers yeah if you didn't hear my seminar it is harry potter it is three models we're doing this it's the collector's edition for 15 we're limiting the sales window on it so it is going to be limited to however many orders we take during this window the deposit is 2,500 bucks the wizard edition 12,000 we're limiting it to 5,000 units technically whatever um a thousand dollars non-refundable arcade edition 99.99 no limit to them thousand dollar non-refundable deposit we're going to be making collector's edition first so they're giving us all this information in the email. And then they give us graphics too. And they say, here's two graphics. The Shooter Run. The one with the golden snitch. That's going to be the... When you advertise the collector's edition, we want you guys to promote the collector's edition using that picture. But for the wizard edition, use this matte black one. Okay. Those are the only two pictures that you guys can show. Make sure that you're not using any other Harry Potter pictures, licensed pictures, with any of your advertisements because Warner Brothers is going to kick us in the nuts if you do this. Because we have all the assets and spent millions of dollars does not mean you get to use any. Yeah, nor does it mean we have those assets for marketing. That's the other thing that people may not realize. And I think we'll see that maybe when Harry Potter is announced. Just marketing and promotion of a product. Sometimes you cannot use certain things or people where you have licensure to use them in the product itself or even promoting the product after a certain date. But whenever it's a launch, it's really weird. So that's why some of this stuff happens. What else did Jack Guarneri tell us? He told us. He said this is not a preorder. They're not collecting deposits, Dennis.

medium confidence · Zach discussing his insider knowledge of manufacturer dealings with studios

Zach Sharpe @ late episode — Shows the operational chaos of simultaneous dealer launches without coordinated asset delivery

Harry Potter
game
King Konggame
Dunegame
Caleperson
Sethperson
Garyperson
Keith Elwinperson
Flipping Out Pinballcompany
The Pinball Showorganization
Trough Jam 2025event
Jean-Paul DeWinperson
HarryPotterPinball.comproduct
Labyrinthgame

high · Zach's description: 'right when they're concluding that online seminar, boom, they're going live'; 'I have to jump on Stern social media to start saving their pictures from Facebook'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Dennis noted JJP has a history of not enforcing distributor contract rules, having previously allowed price-cutting that violated terms; this sets precedent that dealer rules are negotiable

    medium · Dennis: 'JJP has already proven there are no rules'; reference to past distributor selling under advertised prices

  • ?

    community_signal: Zach's use of HarryPotterPinball.com domain for preorder landing page drew criticism from community members and some dealers who felt JJP should control the site; Zach faced accusations of deception and leaking despite clear labeling

    high · Zach's account of backlash; admission JJP internally approved but had to placate upset dealers

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Licensing approval from film/TV studios regularly delays game announcements and marketing materials; studios often require re-approval after minor corrections, creating cascading delays for manufacturers

    medium · Zach's insider knowledge: 'studio companies will tell you their goal is to have something approved by this time and they just don't'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Barrels of Fun chose to release Dune teaser images before full trailer to get ahead of King Kong momentum, despite Zach's advice that first impressions are crucial; timing was uncertain and may have hurt initial perception

    medium · Zach discussing Barrels' reasoning and his concerns about the rollout strategy

  • $

    market_signal: Despite confusion about preorder rules and inability to see the product, Harry Potter preorders were extremely strong due to IP recognition and FOMO; confusion did not materially impact sales

    high · Zach: 'this license is so big it doesn't matter... one of the hottest preorders that probably we've ever received in pinball'

  • ?

    content_signal: Dealers are given no advance access to marketing assets, high-res photos, or embargo windows (unlike watch industry practices), forcing last-minute scrambles and social media image capture

    high · Zach's contrast with watch industry embargo practices; example: 'they go live before that community drop box for the official pictures'

  • ?

    competitor_signal: Barrels' Dune and Stern's King Kong launched same day (April 15), with both trailer drops hours apart; dealer resources and consumer attention split simultaneously

    high · Zach: 'There's two launches in one day'; King Kong 11 a.m., Dune trailer '3 p.m.'

    • 6:17
    So you're not taking – he's encouraging. So what is it, an official list of interest or what does that mean? I don't know. That's the problem. Maybe it sounded good on his behalf. Basically, he wanted to eat cake and eat it too because he's like, get everybody in line in queue. Jump ahead of all these other products. We're fine with that.
    6:36
    But this isn't a preorder. You're not taking preorders. You're not taking money. So we're like, well, what are we doing then? So are we just taking a list like most dealers do? Okay, well, we'll do that. The problem was then he gave us assets, those pictures. I'm like, shit. Okay, so now we're actively doing that. I get that. The problem is not everybody follows directions. So when you have a sales network that you give those instructions to, there are some people that are going to do whatever the hell they want. Because my interpretation is they know where they line up competition-wise may not be as strong. So they're going to take every single advantage that they can. And just like a bad toddler, if they know they can get away with something, they're going to keep doing it, right? Yeah. Possibly. Don't know. Toddlers are strange creatures. So whenever they did that, a lot of us went through our list. Hey, this is where it's going to be. But then there were some dealers, and you heard on Pennside, well, my dealer took my deposit already, so I'm already in queue. It's like, oh, no. Oh, no. Why would people be taking money? So there were some dealers taking money on a product you had not even seen yet. That's not right, is it? So I went back and looked at the rules. Okay, Jack said don't. This isn't a preorder. Not collecting money. So then I get a hold of Jurors Jack and I'm like, at least what am I supposed to be doing? Am I supposed to be taking money? Am I not supposed to be taking money? I read it as if I'm not supposed to be taking money from people, nor do I really feel great about taking money from people. So aren't those the rules? And yeah, those are the rules. Okay, well, there are others that are compromising those rules. And in return, it's kind of fucking up everybody else's business. So can we maybe do something about that so that otherwise I'm going to have to just do what they're doing and I don't want to do that. That's where I don't always align with the beliefs of other businesses. It is hard to follow directions if other people aren't following the rules and directions. Sure. We've seen this with the JJP before. This reminds me of when there was a distributor, at least one, that started selling new in box under what was allowed to be advertised, advertising under, and then JJP blinked and just let him do it. And, I mean, if you're going to let your distributors break contract, then this, like, you're dreaming if you think you're going to control anything here. Yeah. It just does What rules What rules are there Zach So that would be my response I understand your perspective but JJP has already proven there are no rules So I somewhat I guess it was my fault for I interpreted it incorrectly to be fair I went back and looked at it. I thought they were saying, yeah, those are the rules. They were, but they wrote it in a way that just said we're not taking. I thought they were using the royal we. Okay, team? Oh. We're not taking deposits. We're not taking money. JJP's not taking the deposits. Yeah. Okay. So I was like, oh, guys, that's not what you're saying. So poorly phrased, but not shenanigans per se. Yeah, the trouble is it kind of creates negative emotion and kind of confusion throughout the buyer base environment. So they're saying, oh, it's Harry Potter. Oh, here's some pictures. Oh, yeah, you can take preorder, but don't, but do. And people don't want to give money, rightfully so. if they haven't seen a product. So that sucks. But people don't want to miss out on Harry Potter. So a lot of consumers will say, you know what? I'll take a flyer on it. If I've got to put my money down before I even see the game, I've been waiting for this title so bad that I'll do it. And that just sucks for people, and it's not right in my opinion. It is what it is. That happened. We had to kind of shift our focus because we had customers calling in. They said, hey, I know that you said you're not taking money, but I'm hearing as always, I'm hearing on Penn side that if you give money, then those dealers can place their orders with Jersey Jack. So there, so even if you're not taking money, like I want to jump on somebody's list that I can be in the queue already. And then it's like, okay, now it's misinformation. So it's like, shit, uh, no, that's not the case. That's not what's happening here. Jersey Jack is not taking money. Regardless of if I pay Jersey Jack now or not, they will not accept my money right now. So we're trying for you not to take, so it just it creates look so the reason this is all significant everybody is because this is this is nonsense bullshit work that everybody has to do that they shouldn't have to do nobody should have to spend time right now running in circles and nothing's getting accomplished at all there's no information there's we're not taking it's not supposed to be taking orders so it's like excessive amounts of work for no reason whatsoever and i can't stand that um so that was very frustrating but we had to like bend on it because we had so many people like hey is can you just take my money just so i know and i'm like oh this sucks but this is what i this whole jersey jack uh reveal release for harry potter is very very weird to me there and by that i mean so much of the behavior feels to me like they're about to launch an unlicensed game instead of the most licensed, recognized theme that has never been done in pinball. And it's weird to me because as an outsider, someone who doesn't sell their games but just owns games, I look at it and I'm like, it feels like panic. Like, why are they panicking this much? They've got the best theme of the year easily. They know it. Why are they acting so strange? Like, let's start collecting money or maybe collecting money or having the distributor start selling but not showing anything. We're not doing a real reveal, but I'm going to go out and I'm going to say what the name is. I'm going to say what the pricing is, but I'm not going to show anything. And I don't understand it. They shouldn't be this scared. Why are they so scared? It seems like it's total fear. Yeah, we talked about that in the last episode. I can see it interpreted as that. I know, but I'm still perplexed by it. It's like, okay, yeah, Elwynn's coming out with a game this year, but it's a much weaker theme. And all the other companies are small fry. I don't care how good Dune is. It's small fry. They're not going to make more than a thousand of them. Like, what is this panic? Yeah, it's all very valid points. I just feel like this is like one of the worst releases I have seen out of JJP. And I'm gobsmacked by it because all the decisions right now seem to be a company that's desperate to get orders ready. But for whatever reason, I'm assuming licensing, they can't show anything of note right now. But it's like, it's Harry Potter. Why are you freaking out? Well, and that's why I was in the regular episode. but I was busting chops with Cale because I'm like, I don't know what he was talking about. Cale's just wrong. He clearly just doesn't know the license. And, you know, it happens. People don't always know every license under the sun. But it would be like saying that Star Wars sure doesn't sound like a very good idea. But he's basically saying, like, you know, as a really, really big operator, they have a good pulse to the thing, you know, to what's really going on. But I'm like, this has been, like, one of the hottest preorders that probably that we've ever received in pinball. So that was a bit of a mess. again like I said last episode listener it doesn't matter because that's how popular this title is all of that may have hurt a different product or different license it doesn't because this license is so big it doesn't matter it doesn't touch anything so we had all of that so a lot of people taking pre-orders a lot of people on the list they're guaranteed one which is good and they can get whatever model they want terrific there's a little bit more controversy as well with HarryPotterPinball.com have you heard that? Harry Potter pinball.com? I had not until actually while we were recording the live stream. But when I try and go there, it tells me it's having trouble. Well, I probably did .org. It's offline. I did .org instead of .com. But I try and do the .com. Yeah, it just says we're under construction. Yep, under construction. It doesn't show a picture of a golden snitch or anything. So what had happened here, again, more sausage, I learned a valuable lesson from the pinball network, a lot of them. Oh, yes, I know this lesson. we didn't secure the domain, the pinballnetwork.com. And out of spite, somebody secured that domain and kind of laughed at us for not getting it. Yeah, it's just people being people, whatever. So to this day, we still don't have that. We got clever and went, you know, the pinball.network and stuff like that. But needless to say, I learned a really valuable lesson, listener, And that is, if you're going to start something or if you're in business, make sure to secure some domains. From that point onward, I told myself, and I still may make mistakes, but I'm going to, in my line of work, try to secure things that make sense for my company. So trying to do flipping out pinball.net, trying to anything that I can, even things that help my business out. such as, like I have, I'll be frank here, GodzillaPinball.com. Things that I think I may use in the future that may help for my marketing or sales point for my company. Having a landing page. You can do so many things with, like the Pinball Awards, we did that kind of stuff too. And getting all of those domains. It's just, it's smart business whether you'll use them or not. Back in 2020 or 2021, I secured HarryPotterPinball.com. and didn't know if I'd ever use it or anything, but SEOs and boosting SEO rankings and stuff when you're using keywords and you don't, it's all just a whole other level of business and marketing. And I'm an amateur with a lot of it. I didn't go to school for it. But like most things in my life, I've found success by just working harder than the next person. So I secured that, didn't think anything of it. But then once Jack told all the dealers, like, yeah, we've got Harry Potter pinball, I thought, you know what? A good way of getting some sales would be to utilize that website. I thought it was pretty smart. Like, just have a landing page that lets people know if you'd like to preorder this game, fill out this form, and you're guaranteed a game. Boom, done. So I did that, and it was successful. It did what it was supposed to do. it drummed up interest in a product that I was going to be officially selling as a distributor.
    17:11
    I got a lot of shit for that. I had a lot of people that said it was brilliant and smart and holy crap, but a lot of people were angry about that. Now, what the hell did I do wrong for them to be angry about it, Dennis? I don't know. I went to it to see if maybe you had not clearly labeled that it was flipping out pinball site.
    17:29
    Clearly said whenever you're filling out the information, this product is being fulfilled by flipping out pinball. Yeah, I saw it. So I was like, that was my only guess. Yeah, I played by the rules. Or annoyed that that should have been JJP's site. Some people might have just been like, they're the ones that actually make Harry Potter pinball. Some people said I was trying to deceive others.
    17:50
    Well, that's why I went to look to see about labeling who you're getting on the interest list for. Here's the sad part. I got shit for people saying, this is a sloppy website and all this because it was I had it where the background of the website was real nice Harry Potter themed and stuff like that but then once Jack message all dealers and said hey you can only use these two images and nothing else I was I scrambled so my oh shit so I've got to follow the rules I went and edited this podcast really quick I not a I don know how to make websites I don know how to do I don even know what AI is I have no clue how to do any of this shit but I try to work hard so I went and edited this podcast really quick I don know how to make websites I don know how to do it I don even know what AI is I have no clue how to do any of this shit but I try to work hard So I went back and edited it real quick but time is of the essence You've got to get it out there. Boom, boom, boom. And it wasn't the cleanest. Whatever. It still served its purpose. But, yeah, I got a lot of shit for that. So much so, then people started sniffing around like, oh, what other domains does Zach own? And then that's where this whole, oh, so he owns Dune Pinball. And then somebody was like, yeah, he's just trying to get an advantage on other people by leaking barrels this thing. And that was hurtful because I didn't I didn't I didn't have it. It was parked. And that was an indication that barrels had dune. But that was the narrative that was put towards me to get me in trouble. And yeah, barrels did contact me frustrated. Like, what the fuck are you doing? And I'm like, you know how many domains I have? That doesn't mean that they're pinball machines. So it just sucks that any fucking thing I do, listener, is always going to try to be presented in a way. It just sucks.
    19:32
    I've way back machined, had captured images of the older versions of your site. So I see what you had done originally with the fonts and everything. Yeah. Because I didn't see that version before. So, yeah, the truth is. And guess what? I've got – what else do I have? I have all kinds of domain names. I've got – So why has the Harry Potter domain not got anything now? Because there was no need – it served its purpose. And I don't – I picked up on Jersey Jack. So they had a lot of dealers that were upset that I was using that.
    20:13
    Okay. I didn't officially – It lets them, in theory, sell more games. So what's their problem with it? Oh, they didn't have a problem with it. I don't think that they didn't like the dust that it was creating. They didn't care. They actually, speaking with some of the people at Jersey Jack, I think they thought it was pretty damn smart and good hustle work, and they probably were kicking themselves in the ass for not having it.
    20:41
    But, yeah, I think they just had to tell those dealers, like, I don't know what to tell you. Like he, what did he do wrong? So I took it down because I seen the, it did its purpose. And I wanted to, now that everybody's wanting to give money and stuff, I have to find a way to get it to e-commerce. I didn't want to confuse the, confuse everybody. So we just get over there. And quite frankly, if there is a Warner Brothers thing, I don't want to piss Warner. Nobody wants to piss Warner Brothers off. So, so I thought that's in my best interest just to, just to take that down and communicate with people via flipping out pinball.
    21:17
    So that was a whole thing. So that was stressful. What else did we have? Oh, and then, so then this Dune thing launched. I'm like, shit, this deal, is this Dune launching or is it King Kong launching? Like, which one am I prepping for? Because for a lot of people that know or do not know, whenever we launch stuff as dealers, like we don't have any marketing assets. We don't have anything for our website. We don't have anything until the game launches. and then we have to race to create stuff and try to take orders and answer questions. It's hell. It sucks. But the alternative is giving dealers – this is what other industries would do – have dealers sign an NDA or whatever and give dealers time to prep their marketing materials and their websites and stuff like that. But we can't have anything nice and pinball because there's some dumb dick dealers out there that will just leak stuff. So we can't have anything nice. And I even tell manufacturers, I told, I don't think they'll mind me asking. They were asking about my opinion on when dealers should get the, some of the assets, uh, to create advertising or to, to do website kind of stuff for Dune. And I told him, I said, selfishly, I'd love to have at least a day before so that I can work to prep stuff, but we don't deserve that. Just an hour before would be nice. Uh, that's what Stern's typically doing. So I was like, I just don't trust any other dealers. And that hurts all of us more whenever shitty leak stuff comes up. So I hate that. That's really interesting to me because, again, not as a dealer, as just someone with my wristwatch YouTube channel. I didn't sign up for it. They put me on it. One of the watch companies, I have material, including high-res photos, for an embargoed release for April 23rd. They gave me that email back on March 12th.
    23:10
    That's insane. With all the specs, the price, everything. And it's just, we've given this to you. This is your embargo expectation so that I could prep a video if I want to and have it launch exactly on the – and I have the exact date and time of when that will – the embargo lifts. Wow. And that's what they do. They send them to me all the time. I probably cover a third of them because I don't always feel like it, but that's what they do. My life would be so much easier. You could imagine. So for Stern, for King Kong, the dealer seminar was 10 a.m., and their launch was 11 a.m. You know how long Seth and Gary and them talk? An hour. So right when they're concluding that online seminar, boom, they're going live. And I will tell you, most of the times, like Hong Kong, they go live before that community drop box for the official pictures and stuff. That's why I have to jump on Stern social media to start saving their pictures from Facebook so that I can get my website. It sucks. And not to sit here and cry about it, but inside baseball, if you guys are interested at all, it sucks. Because that's when I should be focusing on taking sales, making money. but instead i have and people like well have other people do that i get it that's fine yeah different team members i get that but man it's it is a very stressful time so that i've had manufacturers on launch day like message me or call me and they're like dude why aren't you answering i'm like uh you know kindly fuck off like i'm trying to sell your product right now it is crazy around here i cannot be chatting it up on the phone i just can't i don't have time for That's why I don't understand how a lot of these dealers have time to go to these media things. How the hell do they even have time to do it? But it's like our Super Bowl. It's like wanting to have tea with a quarterback during the Super Bowl. No, I've got to focus on one thing. The barrels thing was a bit of a mess because they did the whole teaser and pictures on an evening,
    25:20
    which they know how I feel about it. I didn't agree with the way that that was going to be rolled out. So they had that teaser, like five max, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then they had pictures. Right, yeah. Which I can see in theory why they wanted to do it. If I'm in their shoes, they probably think to themselves, we're trying to get out in front of the big ape in the room of King Kong and Keith Elwin.
    25:46
    We're trying to get in front of that. But for whatever reasons, I won't discuss here. What if they were only limited to those assets being able to be included during a launch? Their trailer followed by everything else that followed. So the big question is, do you do that before? Or do you just wait and do it after until you have it? Like, what do you do?
    26:07
    They chose to do it before, and ultimately, hopefully, it was all fine. Sales are good now. But I stress to manufacturers, as well as I do on this show, Dennis, I think you agree with me. The first impression on a product such as this is so, so crucial and important to the sales of a game. It may wash itself in the end. If it has a long tail and the game is beloved, maybe it does. But the only evidence I have is that your first impression, I just can't sit here and even stress it enough. And how many times, like a broken record, if you've had companies, barrels, we know, we know. First impression is everything. And I pride myself on when Labyrinth came out, that game was going to come out. They know because they know how important it is. That game was going to come out before. And I threw almost a fit saying, if you like money, do not do that.
    27:06
    They were going to delay orders. So they were going to show everything and then take orders a week later. And I said, do not do that. Whatever you do, I'm not going to speak over you ever in business. except for things like that I have to. I'm not doing my job if I don't tell you. That is a bad decision. And they went with me, and they were very thankful they did.
    27:29
    And they followed suit here when they showed you something. They did open up orders so I give them credit there because that would have been really bad if they just Yeah they did it I i mean it wasn that weird hey i look i interested now you don have any place i can order yet like that just talk about deflating oh my god yeah people get yeah their emotional highs when they spend money that is when they first see a product so yeah they launched that uh and then people were kind of waiting for king kong still so there were sales coming in but truly for you know the abundance of sales came in once the that trailer was released but again i didn't as a dealer i didn't really know when the trailer was going to release so i went into monday night i didn't even know dealers didn't even know that they were launching monday night just the pictures and the teaser until like an hour before think about us thinking we're going to end our work day and then all of a sudden they're like oh no you're actually going to put in another full stay work all evening here because we're about to launch a product. They're like, oh shit. Like my energy level is already down prepping for King Kong tomorrow. And then boom, we got hit. So we worked, worked until late evening and then the next day is King Kong. Boom. And then I didn't really know, well, when's this trailer going to drop? Because I think that's going to be the second push of when I need to push Dune. That's when I need to focus on going through the list and all that when everybody can see everything. And we didn't know that until like I'm halfway into King Kong stuff. and I get a message, hey, we're going live with the trailer here in a bit. And I'm like, oh, fuck, here we go. There's two launches in one day. Let's do this. And then they ended up launching their trailer on the 15th of April. Yeah, because Stern was at 11 a.m. And the trailer for Dune was at right before 3 p.m. Needless to say, that was a fun week. I don't know if that's interesting to people. Do you think people know behind it? Not that they care, but still interesting, right? Yeah, I think so. I think some people who have been around a while may have known. I mean, we've kind of touched on some of these things in the sense that we've talked probably ad nauseum about the issues where we've seen so many brands struggle with launching games. And lately, it's felt like post-pandemic, most of the companies seem to have gotten better about it. I mean, again, that's anecdotal. I can't promise that. It's just like, you know, Stern, I mean, how many years did we rant about why are you always doing these live stream reveals for gameplay? Half the time the live stream goes bad. Like, we're not even talking about the gameplay. We're talking about like the video going down, the audio cutting out and all the rest of it. And it's just like, you know, so much other stuff has gotten better and better done. Like JJP's had really good launches. Stern now does really good launches. Barrels had so much go right for them with Labyrinth, and then Dune with this combination of not being ready and the licensing struggles, and then some of these weird decisions from almost launching without the ability to take orders to choosing to launch in the evening of where almost everyone who resides would buy the game.
    30:44
    It's weird. It's a learning process for people. And I'm wondering if it's because of Trough Jam. It's just this panic. It's the same thing with JJP's behavior, even though they should be king of the hill here with their license, but they're acting like an upstart that doesn't know. They're so worried they're going to get suffocated out of sales because of King Kong. King Kong's been the only one that's made sense, and they still have those, as we noted, as you noted, frustrating things about how you can't have any content to build your websites out ahead of time. So you're building the plane while you're selling it. Yeah, and so much of this pinball is just unique because it's hard to compare it with anything else because some people want to say, what about video games? But all of these companies are so reliant upon this one product to do well. It's such an expensive product. So then you start comparing it to cars. Well, collector cars and even cars in general can't be compared because so many more people, generally speaking, are in that even if it's a hobby, they're buying cars more so than the specialness of pinball. It really can't be compared. So Stern has learned over time, and they have really tightened up how they launch stuff. And these other companies learn as well, but it's just a new ground. Every single release is going to be new ground for these companies to learn something from. my frustration is from once we have learned something why are we not implementing it like we just don't have time to to do this wrong that it's it's a finicky little thing as you've said you said hobbyists are finicky like the industry is finicky too because so many of these companies like whether people know it or not these releases are making make or break like stern doesn't have They've got a bigger window of error. But if they just totally flop and fall on their face, they feel it significantly. All these companies, I mean, when you only have one product every one to two years, the controllables you have to be on if you want to capitalize on the sales. And when you're limiting something to like 1,000 units like Dune or Evil Dead was 888 units, These kind of little big decisions may seem minor, but they turn into really big decisions.
    33:16
    And like you said, people get razzled. You've got all these companies not knowing what the other companies are going to do. They're all competitors, but on the service level, they all play nice. Oh, kumbaya, it's bullshit. Not that they dislike each other, but it's all competition. And you've got to make the most competitive edge and advantage that you can take, and you've got to do things smart. And yeah, they get razzled, and they get impulsive, emotionally impulsive. and boom, you got a statement from a company or boom, we're releasing now or boom. I see it all the time and more so whenever tensions arise for trough jam 2025.
    33:51
    Phase two, where you've got phase three people jumping into phase two. You got all kinds of stuff. Phase three companies begging phase two buyers to not buy. Oh my gosh. And then phase one companies literally like we're getting phased out. What are we doing? Yeah, I mean, poor phase one. Oh, no.
    34:12
    Poor phase one. Yeah, I know. But for the hobbyists, for you listener, for those of you who are just in this as a hobby, as we said before, you guys are lucky. We're getting some cool, cool games, physical gaming at its finest. What other physical gaming is there? I guess you can call some sports physical gaming.
    34:34
    Golf? I mean, they are physical. It's different though Most sports aren't super equipment heavy Or the equipment has to be Or it's part of the team Like pads for football It's just hard to compare pinball isn't it It is Other analogies would be things like Billiards, air hockey Other game room style things I suppose Yeah Billiards is a good one But the layouts don't change You get one and you're done That's true Not theming changes really I mean, that's so cool. So, yeah, that's a little sneak peek. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that these people would want to know when it comes to. I mean, that's all the main stuff with the Phase 2 brands. Yeah, I'm prepping for Phase 3 now as you guys, as I told you about the domain and stuff like that. I'm trying to contact everybody and let them know how this will roll out. But we don't know. I mean, nobody from J.J.P. has told dealers when they're going to announce Harry Potter, nor do I know anything about like pinball brothers. The rumor is predator, but now they're saying that they're pulling back with tariffs and stuff. They don't know if they're like, I don't know. I think people will be surprised to know that we find out stuff right before and maybe rightfully so. They don't value dealer input quite as much, definitely quite as much as they used to in the eighties, nineties, seventies kind of thing. But essentially we're, They see most dealers as just a sales network and not really providing a ton of input. I think it's nice for manufacturers to say that publicly, like, oh, you know, we value the input. But we can all be honest with ourselves. It's not a ton. Some of the bigger dealers, sure, they're going to, you know, because numbers don't lie, they're getting input from those individuals because their sales back it up. But it's an interesting career, and I love it to pieces. I just love it, Dennis. So yeah, on launch days, those are my Super Bowls. And I am Eli Manning.
    36:36
    Somebody said I look like Eli Manning. And I'm not, you know, I'm not no Dan Marino or Peyton Manning. Maybe. Am I Eli Manning worthy?
    36:46
    Maybe. Yeah, maybe Eli, sure. That's all. Give me that at least. Okay.