Are we back again this quickly for episode number 143? Well, we are, because we got dropped on our plates all that Avatar image, all of one image yesterday. I got my buddy Enzo all the way from Western Australia here to talk about that and so much more. Let's go. Oh, man, super excited here. We've got another episode for everybody right away. I'm here with Enzo LaPegna. Did I say that name right? Yes. Very good. Coming all the way from Australia. You may have seen him around Gonzo's Pinball Flip-O-Rama, where he helps admin the YouTube channel there. But now we want to have a little discussion. Now we've got more pinball stuff to talk about, namely the Avatar Drop. How are you doing, sir? Yeah, good. Thank you very much, mate. Huge fan, huge fan. Obviously love your stuff. And there's a lot going on at the moment, that's for sure. Perfect. Compliments are always welcome, so thanks for opening with that. Yeah, no, we've been following you very closely for a long time, and the time difference is great because I wake up and there's something new. That's perfect. And anything that helps my penetration into Australia, too, is going to help me out. I can't wait to get out there. You got Ryan. He's a huge ambassador of yours and a big fan. So I'm now a fan of him too. We're going to take over the Sunbird country. I'm so excited. So yesterday I thought I was all caught up on the news, right, dropped an episode, did a live stream or whatever, and then all of a sudden we get dropped it literally in our lap, this picture of Avatar, right, the rumored game from Jersey Jack, and then it was rumored to not be that, and then here it is. I mean do you I was interestingly thinking is it like maybe it is the game but is it is it the next game has it been planted to throw us off um you know yeah very good picture very detailed very clear I mean this wasn't somebody sneaking in as a janitor late at night with a potato camera and like smuggling this out like you know someone zoomed in on there with the glass off and got a good quality picture of it I'm thinking I'm looking at it right now it's a professional photo and it happens to capture the name of the couple of the guys that have worked on the game as well, by the looks of it. Yeah, and it happened to drop right in the middle of Stern's livestream of their new topper mode for Jaws. Did you notice that? I did, yes. Well, I did, someone pointed it out, and then I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. So, no, there's no official confirmation on any of this, so this may very well be, like, kind of a pre-production photograph, and maybe this isn't the next game that's coming out. But, I mean, it was heavily rumored to be. You know, there had been talk about people that had seen the art package for this game. So, I don't know. I'm kind of thinking it is. I'm kind of thinking it is. And the timing is just too good, man. Well, they've got the new movies coming out soon. I don't know. That's due Christmas, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So, I know D23, they just had the announcement. I don't remember the exact date. But, you know, the last one was Way of Water, right? The second Avatar film. And so, this one's got, like, the fire motif. So, they're doing the whole... They're doing like the Avatar Last Airbender thing Where they're doing different elements, right? Yep, Captain Planet, yep So, you know, what I was wondering with this thing And this is something that happens with, you know, pinball machines That are part of a trilogy or something You know, it comes out at one point And then there's more content in the future And then the game seems kind of dated So, you know, and then it's Jersey Jack I mean, are they just going to do the new movie? Is it just going to be the old movie? Are they going to do Avatar 4? And repeat like with Toy Story 4? But looking at this and decoding what we saw On the little insert mode lights It looks like it's going to be content from the first two movies at least. I mean, obviously the modes are quite prominent there. You can see that. You can see the glow-in-the-dark night mode, which is obviously the beautiful world that James Cameron created with the glowing effect and everything. Very similar to probably the UV light kit on Stranger Things, I guess. Man. Maybe they might do. There's no doubt, being Jersey Jack, it's going to be a gorgeous game. I mean, look at Elton John. Yeah, oh, yeah, for sure. And, you know, the only thing I have to say about Elton John and part of the reason, you know, I don't have one is, you know, not because it doesn't shoot well, not because it doesn't have the fit and finish and seem like a premium build machine, but it's essentially jukebox in a box, you know. There's not really like an adventure mode to it. You know, I don't know how you add, you know, extra little challenge modes. It's just kind of like a celebration of the music. Good for what it is. Fun to play on location. But, like, you know, I didn't bring it in the house. Something like this though may be a little different Given that you know Since it's a movie license and two films With so much eye candy packed into them Yeah like I think This could be super fun Were you a fan of the Stern Avatar? Yeah I just played it last weekend actually I'd come across it before Not working in the best manner But then I was over at Jay's Silver Pin Ballroom Over in Iowa this guy's mad I mean he's got like 60 games in his house and he does like public tournaments so I finally made it down there to it and he had a Stern Avatar and I got to spend a little bit of time on it and you know it's a game of that era but it played awesome it was fun you know um you know building up the shots against the big dude in the mech suit you know and then taking him down um you know it didn't it definitely wasn't over the top with the lights and the the presentation that Jersey Jack is known for um but you know I was pleasantly surprised like it's a movie that I don't you know it's not star wars you know i like it okay but you know the storyline isn't terribly deep it's like a retelling of pocahontas or fern gully right um pretty much but it was fun to play around in there and you know adding all that jjp polish i i think i see a little bit of the concept of why they went with this yeah and i think obviously with the fact that Steve Ritchie's there mentoring, I think I called him JJP Jesus, as Gomez is obviously Jesus for Stern. I think having him there and overseeing and mentoring this generation of new guys coming through, I think there was the rumor that the guy doing Avatar was the guy that did Godfather. Oh, so I had, well, the rumor had been that this, is it Eric Seiden? What's the guy's name that's been working at JJP, hasn't had a game come out yet? The dude that did Metroid, the homebrew, he was supposed to be up next. I mean, there's all rumors. Who knows for sure? But, you know, reportedly he was behind it. My hope is, though, that he's taken the Steve Ritchie flipper design and put that in here so we get a good flipping game. And I think they'd be mad lads not to do that. That would be very – I mean, to not get him to come in and go, what do you think of this, and get his two cents in would just be a weird move. I think he'd have to be touched on feeling everything that they do now. Yeah. Or, you know, or is this made by other Eric? Now, the one thing we don't know is maybe J.J.P. could have two or three games pretty far into production to the point that they may, you know, kind of juggle, like, which release, you know, it could be. You know, they may, you know, we heard talk about, like, you know, early on Avatar was coming and then Avatar definitely wasn't it and it was going to be Matrix, you know. Maybe both of these games exist and they're kind of juggling, like, which one is going to get this release window. So that could be a thing, you know. Well, funny enough, when Gonzo interviewed JJP in the UK, he told him in the interview that he knows what his next three games were and they're working on them. So, like you said, you know, maybe one's not ready. They've decided to run with the other one. But I think, you know, with obviously D23 and the success that Disney's had with Deadpool, Wolverine and the movies coming out, it'd be stupid not to release it. You know, at the moment, you know, if they are doing Harry Potter, there is a new Harry Potter TV show coming, but that's not out until next year. You'd probably want to coincide with that, I guess. Yeah, there's a new theme park land opening next year, too, in Florida. And, you know, that license is, like, perennial. You can drop it any day of the year. I think it would attract a lot of attention. I like what I'm seeing from this picture because, obviously, it's in, like, a dark UV mode. and one is reminded of Stranger Things. I finally got my UV kit after months and months and months of waiting for them to rerun it again. It's just such a moment when the UV hits and the whole play field changes, the art comes out and the bioluminescent aspect of this Pandora world is a large part of the draw that brings you into this visual splendor, as it were. So if they can do that with Pinball, which this photo definitely looks like they're doing with the glow-in-the-dark rubbers, yeah dude I'm into this I think that is again that glitz and glamour and this upside down world that they can do I definitely feel that it could be a win for them considering feeding off the win that Elton was for them I still don't have my UV kit for Stranger Things yet but we're a bit delayed in Down Under because I've got the little mod of the shopping centre the Starcourt Mall that goes that is a normal shopping centre and then obviously the UV comes in and it's got all the veins all over it. So I'm hanging out to try that. But yeah, look, I think you're right. I think the little sneak peek, which looks like it was shot on purpose, was a very smart move, especially because lately there's been little snippets of Alice here and there and close-up shots and stuff. And they were probably trying to ride the whole fin ride the little shark feeding off the big shark with Jaws. Like you said, it dropped at the same time. So, look, I think it's promising. It's promising. Yeah. I can see kind of how JJP is positioning themselves as, like, a point of difference in the industry too. So, like, think about Elton John, like, the CE with the laser projections and everything. If you were to go down into somebody's well-appointed game room downstairs, you know, where there's, like, a leather pool table and, like, an easy chair and a big bookcase of fancy books and then you had elton john in the corner with its projection and everything just like it's standing as a spectacle on its own like it really seems to fit there more so than the guy that's got you know 10 day to east games five stern pros and this is kind of wedged somewhere in there right so imagine going downstairs and like here's here's a avatar right here's pandora in a box with like the the mermaids uh edition fathom projections on the ground right so there's water everywhere on the walls and everything and it just becomes like a spectacle unto itself. With the high-end polish and everything, that's kind of what that sort of person would want. Something just to put down on their downstairs to really stand out and be a spectacle, and not necessarily pin number 11 in a 12-pin lineup wedged against the wall. I kind of see that, especially with them having that higher price. It's hard to justify what is like, you could get three Stern Pros right now for that $15,000. Well, it may increase we're just doing the calculations, it's like $17,000 US. Yikes. Well, 15 plus tax plus shipping plus, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, probably. I mean, yikes. Yeah, you're right. You know, it is a high-ticket item, but it's, you know, I think it's like a really fancy car, you know, like you could buy a Hyundai, but a Mercedes is so much better, for instance, you know. Like I think JJP are meant to be like a piece of artwork that you can play pinball on. I honestly think that it's a product that ticks all the boxes. It isn't very rarely do you see one mixed between, like you said, all the pros and all the data and stuff. I mean, really, since Toy Story 4, when they released Godfather and then Elton John, you can really feel where they're putting their energy and their focus in when it comes to pinball design. The Gold Lions, man. Gold lions, gold wire forms Godfather looks fantastic Like the Radcal type effects The cabinet art on the side The sparkly gold in the play field I wish the gameplay was more compelling Honestly Because that the reason I don play it that much But the machine with the topper and everything like it looks fantastic And then the collector's edition Elton John the same way, that topper with the two screens, the projection from Spencer's Gifts from the mall up on the ceiling. You know, again, like 10 pounds of glitter used in the paint and the clear coat. Elton back there on his piano, like, it's something to gander at, man. and so hopefully they hit that same mark here with this Avatar machine. There you go. I just got a notification that this new John Wick code just got released. What? All right. Well, you might hear Wick pop in the background then if the Wi-Fi notices it. Pop. Dot. A.A. New code. There you go. Nice, nice. So, yeah, look, I think it's interesting because a lot of people were anti-Elton John when it first got announced and a lot of like, oh, I'd never play that, never buy that. We had a little festival that we just had on the weekend, a little pinball tournament, and we had to kick people off it to give everyone else a turn. So it's a game that, surprisingly, everyone wants to play. Get back, honky-kat, yeah. Yeah, everyone had like, you know, pinball wizard. You just can't go wrong. And everyone's hips are moving and everyone's hips are thrusting thrusting and they're all playing that game you know um it's they've done it in a way where like i said to chris they've really encapsulated elton john's soul in that pinball machine yeah and we'll say you know following godzilla or godzilla godfather and then into elton john you know both themes like i don't think anybody was asking for um this at least they're moving in the right direction like you know this is at least more of a kind of adventure theme something you can build a game around, you know, almost kind of let it write itself with, you know, the different battles and plot points along, you know, both of these films. So I think they're getting there, you know. I would still love to see J.J.P. do Star Wars or something, like tackle just a massive license and just put everything in there. But, I mean, if any game license theme was just asking for that huge LCD screen that they have up there to just show eye candy, I mean, yeah, this is it. So I kind of see the reasoning behind it, even though, again, I don't think there was a rousing ruckus from the pinball enthusiast community for another Avatar pin. Yeah, but they also weren't that fussed by Jaws, and they weren't that fussed by Elton John either. So I think once it comes out, I mean, imagine, surely they'll do a 3D mode with Avatar. Oh, man, I didn't even think of that. Yeah. Chuck in some 3D goggles. Dude, all right. I want to go to Joe's, not that it's the best, but it's still fun. What do you think of this trend of just drip-feeding us content now? It seems like they went from just keeping hush-hush as much as they can until everything's either leaked all at once or revealed all at once. Now we're getting little snippets of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland every week or so. Now we get a little peek at this. I'm waiting for a supposed leak of X-Men soon, where we see the back of a flipper or something. I think at their hand they were a bit forced to. You know, there's been so many. Obviously, Stern had a leak. Someone was leaking information. So you might as well do it yourself and do it properly, right? So I think, you know, keeping people guessing or keeping people excited as opposed to we know that the titles are coming every three to four months. I think that's the timeframe now. Yeah. So it's inevitable. Everyone's talking about it. and you could just drop a little hint and everyone will keep talking about it, you know, front of mind, right? So I think there's nothing wrong with it. And I think the way games will be released will probably change now, you know, be evolved a bit more. And we've already seen it. You know, look at Alice. You know, we've had some snippets for a long time now, play field up photo and toy in the back, and now we've got this little ricochet off the art blade today with the spinning ball save in the outlanes. The player-controlled discs, yeah, that are in both of the outlanes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Gameplay-wise, we'll have to see how that fits. I think a Magna save still would have been, like, kind of maybe the way to go. But we'll see. We'll see when we see more. I do like all the sculpts that are in it. But, yeah, it seems like, you know, the last banger game sales-wise, I think, that came out was probably Jaws, and that's probably going to continue to do so. And that was back in January. Looney Tunes has been doing pretty well Labyrinth is in the mix there But now in the second half of the year It's been a little bit empty So maybe people's pinball fund budgets Have built up And so now it's kind of like who's going to be the next one To release something major into the market That's going to get a lot of that initial attention And start draining these budgets of folks So I wonder if they're kind of vying Who's going to be the next release Is Stern going to take it with X-Men and gobble up All the operators budget for the rest of the year Or is J.J.P. trying to edge in there and get some excitement built before Alice drops, you know, and people are running out, you know, spending their budgets on that. You know? I think it would be interesting. I think, Stern, if X-Men was meant to be the next one, I don't know if it was pulled forward because of the success of Deadpool Wolverine. You know, if it was meant to be the next one, should it not have probably been aligned closer to the release of the film? There was talk that it was meant to be released last month, and then it got pushed back. but I don't know. I still think the hidden gem here is still John Wick. I think people have done too early what they did with James Bond. James Bond came out and everyone hated it. Everyone hated it, and Stern's best game is James Bond. To today, in my opinion, Stern's best game is James Bond. Hot take. It took time to get there. Absolutely it did, yeah. And I don't think that was necessarily Stern's doing. I think it was just difficulty with that licensor. But I'm having some – I've got a John Wick. I've got an LE. I don't know. I'm mental. What number is yours? 41, I think, 41 or 42. Oh, I've got 110. We're nearly friends. Nice, buddy. Yeah, you know, and so, again, like this game came out just devoid of really any meaningful code. But through the last few code updates that we've had, and the more that I play it and I start to kind of strategize around, you know, stacking the multi-balls with the modes and having some intermittent glimpses of something there, I think this game has a lot of potential to really become something, you know, once we get closer to that 1.0 code. Because right now the modes are just colored lights. There's really no call-outs with them. It's really hard to know even what you're supposed to do, so that all needs to come. There's this experience system and these John Wick points, and we don't know what we're supposed to do with those yet. I mean, we'll be able to spend those like shark teeth for some kind of 8-bit video mode, for all we know. Yeah. Well, I'm just reading some of the updates that just got announced now. Ally perks, allies, a lot of stuff with allies, it looks like. Nice. Some, obviously, bug fixes. But I think the misunderstanding of John Wick, and we had a conversation about this on the weekend. and so we held a three-day event. We took 34 machines, hired a community hall, and organised what we called the Pinball Collective, which was just designed to bring the community together. Unfortunately, in Perth, we don't have a lot of events. We've only got really one place you can play pinball in Perth, and they're all sterns predominantly, and they're all kind of new games. There are a few older games there at Barkadia, but we had a chat as we were finishing up and saying that, you know, John Wick is hard, right, and the shots are very tight, especially that middle ramp. But I think what people are missing here is that the game is designed with the idea that you play as John Wick, your flippers are the guns, right, and you're in a first-person shooter. Whoa. Like Call of Duty, right? Yeah, yeah. And that it is fast, and in a battle with guns, like you've seen the movies, is this constant gunshots. You probably can't even count the amount of bullets that have been spied. And this feels like it. I mean, there are times where you're playing and the shaker mode is just going off because people are shooting at you. You've got the blue little AI enemies that are just popping out of nowhere and they're firing at you. And I think people are approaching John Wick as a traditional pinball machine, and it's not that. It is a first-person shooter in a pinball machine. Dude, I need to play it again now with that in mind. But yeah, I see what you're saying From his perspective The shots are laid out there kind of in the back third And then as soon as you shoot out Fire is coming right back at you Yeah Your flippers are your weapons I mean when I get into it And I'm in a mode and I've got a multiball going And I hit that add-a-ball And now there's four balls flying like mad everywhere And like As soon as you get it up into an orbit You think you can breathe for a second But that ball is coming back as fast as you send it away yeah yeah it is fast and uh there are air balls no question about it for sure it's you know it is for me it's a huge theme i mean i love that franchise um i'm a huge piano fan um absolutely i think you know the ble could have done with some gold instead of the matte black in my opinion but um not not that you can't modify yourself but um it is a gorgeous game that winston is the best you could have chosen for the call-outs. He's just got the best voice in Hollywood, in my opinion, or one of the best voices in Hollywood. The Continental appreciates your accuracy, John. Yeah. You know, so it's just, you know, I think this game is magic. How about another ball? Yeah. People have to give it a chance. You do a good impression. I think, you know, it's a bit like the hate the Venom got because, you know, Stern will release a game, but everyone gets the Pro Edition first, right? Yeah, oh, God. Everyone plays the Pro Edition, and it's crap. I don't want to use the word crap. It's plain, right? It's plain. I mean, yeah, you walk up to a John Wick Pro, and you don't have expression lights. You don't have the backbox lights. You don't have shaker motor integration with the gunshots on the screen. That has a little bit more ramp lock. People go, you don't need it because it does it virtually. I don't care. I need it. I want it. It's so weird to go play a Pro in location now, and it's like, you know, ball one is locked. And it's like, no, it's not, you lying game. it's coming back to my flipper. It didn't lock nothing. I'll tell you something, Don. I played Venom Pro when it came out, and I absolutely hated it. I was like, this is the biggest miss ever, right? And then my local cafe in town got a Venom LE. Nice. And I was like, I'm just going to give it a shot while I wait for my Armand Long Mac. And to the point where it was, honestly, I went back for weeks and weeks and weeks, because I was like, I think I need to buy this game. Yeah. So I ended up buying the game. I mean, for me, once I got 150 games or so deep into it and I understood the code and kind of what they were doing gameplay-wise and I had a premium, I put the LE armor on it. I mean, I decked the whole thing out. I added a spinner to the left orbit. There's a spot there in the plastic to go put one in just for some kinetic satisfaction. And, like, I was really digging the game after that point, you know. You know, pick and win, you know, it's because it makes that one shot up the middle register a little bit easier, play through the modes, unlock all the characters. Like, I love all that. I love the fact that, you know, I can play five games on it, and they all mean something because it contributed towards my overall levels. And then, you know, my character unlocks, I'm getting. Now, all of a sudden, like, I'm playing as a venomized Hulk. I get the Hulk smash on the action button. You know, but if you just played the pro, and that's kind of as far as you took it, put five games on it, yeah. I mean, you'd walk away thinking, what even is this? Well, a perfect example is a friend of mine bought a Jaws Pro and sold it after a couple weeks. Yeah. Then he's paid a premium and he's like, I'm going to buy a premium. Yeah, that's definitely the way to go. And then I had a Jaws premium. Love that game. I want to – I'm probably going to upgrade to an LE at some point down the road. But I put the ball shark mod on there So like that was super fun It a repeatable shot I don think it cheating It just made the game way more fun for me Yeah man just you know shark popping up moments and then everything they're adding to that game. You know, I want Jaws to be, like, the new high-water mark to reach for. You know, it was Godzilla. Now I think with these new modes and the integration that they've done, I think Jaws is probably surpassing Godzilla, you know, for me. I think so, and everyone I speak to, Chris says the same. a few other people said the same. Jaws is definitely probably the best L1 game. Yeah, for sure. I wasn't expecting that when it was first released, you know, but man, what a freaking game. And it's just getting better. So that's my hope for WIC to kind of, you know, at least approach some of that. Maybe we'll get some cool topper modes or something, and if they keep the codes coming and, you know, that engaging gameplay, which really serves Stern and operators, you know, if they have a compelling reason to drive people back to the arcade over and over for new achievements, for new contracts. Like, perfect. Yes, more of that, please. Yeah. No, 100%. I think obviously what they're doing with Insider Connect and trying to draw people in and, you know, getting a crowd that still to this day doesn't even think pinball is a thing anymore, you know, like appealing to a new crowd. You know, I mean, again, the Costco thing is about getting in front of new people. right? Yeah. It is, you know, getting, getting in front of people that, um, don't even know pinball's a thing. Yeah, you're just like, you know, walking through, doing your sips and nibbles at Costco, you got your hot dog in one hand, and all of a sudden, oh, hey, look, it's a pinball machine. I don't know, do you guys have Costco and Oz? We do, we do, and, and there are some high ticket items at Costco. Yeah. And they sell TVs. Yeah, yeah. I don't see the issue, you know, I don't, I was pretty passionate about this, we shot a video about this recently, And I said, look, at the end of the day, Stern is a business. I don't believe that they have excess stock of this model. I think they have given distributors an opportunity to sell a homebrew drawers, and it hasn't panned out that way. And they've gone, okay, well, how do we get this to a different generation, a different crowd of people? Sure, they want to inflate their books. They probably want to sell the business, or they want to go public with it, right? At the end of the day, it is a big beast. It is the Disney of pinball. But you can't compare what J.J.P. does or Dutch or Spooky to Stern. No. Because Stern is there to make money and to make a lot of money. And their games just won't have the better rubbers and the better this and the better that because they're churning and burning. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. And if, you know, this Costco thing can move the needle even a little bit, I mean, if they can get, you know, 3% growth per year as far as, you know, people who are now into purchasing pinball, you know, I think that's a good move for them. Even 1%, Don. Like, honestly, 1% is like if they then spend, like, let's call it a million dollars on an advertising campaign, right? They don't need to. They've just forced Costco to buy a million dollars worth of stock. Yeah. Stern doesn't care if that sells or doesn't sell. They've already been paid. Right? They've already been paid. Yeah. But the fact is is that even if they don't sell any machines, right, 20,000 people have just walked past a pinball machine, how to play with it and have now realized that that's pretty fun. Yeah, like that's something I could own, really? Not only do they still make them, but like I can – somebody will take it out to my truck and throw it in there. Now, if in a year's time Costco still have all these and they didn't sell them at 4999, Costco are well within their right to go 3999, it's yours now, Boxing Day sale, right? So I'm a frequent Costco visitor, and that's one thing I do. I'll see a product, particularly if it's a big ticket one, And I'll just keep my eye on it because I know at some point they're going to need to move that on. Seasons are changing. They don't want to pay storage. It'll go in the back of the warehouse, mark down, you know, 10%, 20%, 30% sometimes. You know, take it now. I got a $1,000 leather sofa for $5.99 once, you know, just because it's end and it's mine. Yes. I'm sure you can buy an army tank at Costco as well. Probably. At least online, yeah. Now, they sell, you know, there's like $18,000 jewelry there too sometimes, you know. So, yeah, they have big ticket things, especially on the website. They sell, you know, hot tub spas that cost around the same cost as what this is going for. So, I don't, yeah. You know, if you're just there for paper towels, you know, then you're probably not in that market anyway. But somebody's going to see this, and the holidays are going to come up, and he wants to be like, you know, the hero of Christmas. And so he wants to have this thing unboxed under the tree, and that's he's going to pick these things up. Yeah. And you know what? If I was at Stern and I said I've got an idea for a publicity stunt, I'm going to give one Jurassic homebrew to every school that looks after kids with autism or disabled kids. Let's donate one to every school, right? It's like, okay, instead of spending a million dollars advertising, let's just write one game off. Let's give one to every state in America, right? What's that going to cost them? Right. Right? All of a sudden, you've got one pinball machine in a school that all these kids are going to play, right, that they've donated, and that's one hell of a publicity stunt. Like, this is a move like that, right? They're forcing Costco's hand to buy the stock. They're not giving it to them, but they just want to get it out there. They want to get the name out there. And how great is it they put Insider Connected on this, too? I love it. I love it. Yeah. Because I think inside of Connect Kids, I mean, my daughter, she's a gun pinball player. She finished third on the weekend in the tournament. And she's 10 years old, right? Now, she has a conniption if she doesn't scan in. Mm-hmm. She literally, if she forgot to scan in, she loses her marbles. Yeah. It's like, well, why do we even want to play if I'm not logged in, right? Yeah. She's like, no, I want to scan in. I want to scan in. Don't go to ball three. So she'll run off and get it. Yeah. Like, it is an addiction for her. Mm-hmm. Right? And it's a smart move. Absolutely, yeah. And I can only imagine the data that instantly feeds back to Stern on who's playing, when are they playing, what times of day are they playing. Yep, and look at George Gomez. He said that with Insider Connect, they were able to tell that Venom is the most popular game on site. Yeah, boom. There you go, tracking sales. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So no wonder Jersey Jack wants to come out with something similar to that. I wonder if we'll see that debut with Avatar. I know that when I play other companies' games, I feel a little sad that I can't log in and keep track of what I've been doing. It's fun to go back and look at what your high scores were when you last played that and try to hunt around all the different editions of machines so you can fill out your score sheet. And the rumor that, obviously, with Spike 3, that there's a suggestion that with the upgraded power performance that we will be able to play probably Pokemon in the future, you know, scan into my machine and I can play Don all the way in Chicago on his machine versus each other. Man, that would be, like, fantastic. And can you imagine, like, if they came out with a companion app to their pinball machine so, like, when you weren't in the arcade, you could sit there and play, like, a mini game on your phone that would, you know, level up your characters the next time you do play, like, that's integrated into there? Yeah. it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, this is all about appealing to a new generation which is consumed with video games and PlayStations and Switches and Minecraft and all that, right? So I think ultimately a model where I can scan in and play my Star Wars against your Star Wars, and we take turns because I can't come over to your house, and I'm player one and you're player two. Genius. Can you imagine firing up Star Wars, right? And like you had been playing last night. I log into my machine and all of a sudden my Death Star starts blowing up. Like, you blew up my Death Star, damn it. And now I've got to play to get you back so I can blow up something in your game. Why not? I'm excited. It's a smart move. I think, look, at the end of the day with the man in charge from X Disney there I forget his name all the time. Ed Stern. Seth Davidson? Yeah, I can't always forget his name. They're there to increase the revenue. Yeah. It's as simple as that. It's a business, and it's naive to think any differently. I think if we can do that by introducing them into Costco, introducing them into high schools, or, you know, relying on kind of like a pub or a barbecue house to buy a pinball machine, they're not going to outlay. Those guys are struggling already, right? They're not going to outlay $20,000 or $10,000 for a machine to hope that they're going to have to share 50% of the profits with the person that bought the machine in or whatever it is, right? Like, I think it's a smart move. Honestly, I really do. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait. And I don't think we see, like, the prices coming down at all. But if they can at least pack more value in there so it hurts less, you know, I think that's the way to go with it. Yeah, look, I think, you know, like at our event, we obviously we expected the usual crowd that always comes to these things when we host it it's the same faces all the time and i love those guys don't get me wrong because if it wasn't for them pinball would be dead right but we targeted it very differently on social media and we got like 20 new faces come through that didn't even know pinball was a thing or that there even was a pinball community right so we had to think out of the box as well you know and this is no different This is no different. I love it, man. I'm excited. It's like 2025 is kicking off now. Like the 2025 model end machines are now being shown as we're getting into the fall season. Look, I'm not disappointed that it could be X-Men from Stern. I would have liked to have seen, you know, Gary had always said that he wanted to do King Kong. You know, he did a bit of a sneaky photo last year in front of a King Kong on his social media. So everyone always thought it was going to be King Kong or Godzilla versus King Kong maybe. That would have been a cool thing to see. Pokemon obviously is the one that everyone else has been talking about. But I just don't think at the moment you can really go wrong. No, no. Yeah, especially as fleshed out as these are. And even if it was a terrible theme, you still got Insider Connected achievements to go after. And if nothing else, the locations are going to have new games soon. So that's going to be fun. I guess, what's the worst that could happen with this X-Men machine? It looks like Avengers Infinity Quest with Zombie Yeti doing art on it. It's got the shots and the crazy ramps and things. And shoots okay and has convoluted code. That's the lowest bar I think we can hit. Everything else. Yeah, so what's wrong with that? Yeah, that's fine. I really, really hope it was X-Men 97. I think we all did, yeah. If it's X-Men comic, I can swallow the pill, but X-Men 97 is just a masterpiece. Yeah. I mean, I haven't actually watched the new one yet because I'm trying to get through the old one and relive my childhood again. But X-Men 97 is... Right? One of the best intros in cartoon history, I think. Yeah, man. Made My Saturday Morning is awesome. Yeah, man, it's just one of the best intros. That and I don't know if you ever watched The Mask. Remember the toys, The Mask? Yeah. The Mask intro. The Mask intro was phenomenal. Now, are you talking about like the 80s toy line mask or like the Jim Carrey cartoon? No, no, no, the 80s toy line mask. Oh, man, I do remember that, yeah. I know it had a good theme song, I can't place it Yeah, I can't It's like, it was just It was that typical, you know, that Synth piano Type music It was very futuristic, modern And I think These are all things That would just be so awesome in the pinball machine I love to see a Transformers G1 Pinball machine Absolutely Transformers the movie even So like given what we seen recently from Stern right So we got an X-Men game coming out. Probably will have some sort of leveling element to it. Venom had it. Jaws had it. John Wick has it. Probably, you know, it would be like a great game to have unlockable characters in. I mean, you know, there's like 700 X-Men characters, plus probably, you know. So, play in and then you get to unlock a sentinel you get to unlock you know magneto's alter ego and then through code updates you can keep putting things out there and you know add different call outs and such and if it is the comic book license you don't have to worry about you know licensing the official voice actors you can just get you know uh scale actors um and you know continuously put characters in here you know almost like a pokemon right let's just fill it up with x-men characters and you can go through and you know pick which version of which one you want i think there's so much else that can go besides just a layout that's similar to Avengers Infinity Quest and Zombie Yeti art, you know. Yeah, 100%. I think it is a good asset that, if done right, could be actually really good. God, I'm going to end up buying another pinball machine in the next month here, damn it. Between all these. I've gotten to the point now where it's going to be one in, one out now. I just don't have the space anymore. Yeah, I set a limit of 10, which is plenty, and I'm sitting at 16, so it's gone awry, man. Yeah, dude, I started at four, and I'm way past the number now. If anybody leads a Lebowski, let me know. I just moved on my Lebowski, actually. It got to a point where I was the only one playing it. The family didn't really play it. My kids liked the pinball, the bowling ball thing, the alley there, but not enough to justify such an expensive machine living at home. So, and we're going to bring Elton John in for a bit, have a great experience with that, and see where John Wick goes. I'm going to turn mine on soon and get some new update done. But, yeah, look, it's exciting times, exciting times. I don't see anything wrong with, you know, getting a game in, enjoying it, and then when you find yourself just not playing it as much as the new things, switch it out, get it out to someone else get something new in there, keep the lineup fresh I love that yeah look, there are games that for me are bolted to the floor Bond Star Wars, Ghostbusters Jaws Deadpool, they're never going anywhere you're not taking my Star Wars, yeah not taking my, although I actually something controversial I played the premium Star Wars and I couldn't gel with it. I felt that they just missed the mark with the toys and the mechs and there was no upper playfield, there was no bottom playfield. And then a year later someone was selling a Star Wars comic edition. And that didn't make me feel like that. I accepted the way it was more than I did when I had the movie playfield graphics and the movie trans life, I felt like the comic one, you could get away with not being full of toys and assets. I mean, it's almost like it has that 80s aesthetic, you know? Yeah. Like, I mean, we had them side by side at a workshop that a friend works at, and everyone was more enticed by the comic one. You could get away with what they did. I feel they missed the mark a bit with the movie edition artwork. It feels a bit of a letdown. Yeah, I think the good thing is, you know, this doesn't mean that that's the only Star Wars machine we're ever going to get now. You can still revisit that well and, you know, come out with a game that plays completely different. Just come out with an Empire Strikes Back and just have a whole snow battlefield and we'll drop the AT-ATs and probe droid bash toys. and a bottom play field which is like the odd cave with the like in Congo right you could have a wampa back there that's the ball back and forth oh we got this thing already designed man let's do it what was the yeti called in Star Wars the wampa and then like his arm breaks off and then that ends the mode yeah and I always had this vision of this upper play field being like the return of Jedi you know the Emperor's chair and you had to bash the toy around it. Good, good. You know, with the window in the background. And I thought that would have been a wicked up in play field. Alas. Yeah. You know. You want this, don't you? Grab it. Strike me down. And your transition to the dark side will be complete. It's, have you put the, are we allowed to say it? Have you put the movie content on your Star Wars? I have not had to yet, man. I'm still enjoying it. I'll have to look into that. Is that like an SD card file you throw in there? Yeah, that's not fun. I'm a big believer of director's intent and leaving it, but it was cool to experience. I'll put my Jurassic Park, I'll put that in there, and it does change the game a lot. Wow, okay. All right, worthwhile trying. I know I put the sound mod in Big Lebowski So it plays like the full versions of the songs And yeah that definitely Elevates the gameplay Like start that game up and all of a sudden Here's the gambler you know On a train bound for nowhere It's like oh okay yeah And like in the eagles come on Yeah Look I think You know obviously like you said there's always limitations That a license will allow you to do things And not do things classic example is the guns on Wick but although I'm looking forward to my little gun what do you call it my rod that was cool I ordered that that's the fact that you can still do your skill shots and also store your cigarette lighter I wouldn't be surprised if that makes it through Australian customs I bought toy guns to make a John Wick topper and they got through customs Okay, good, good. I was worried. Oh, John Wick is updating. Look at that. See? Awesome. It'll be interesting to see. Look, I think it's a beautiful machine. It plays well. My balls sometimes get stuck where the crate is. They're probably going to come up with something for that, I think. Okay. Have you had yours, you know, where it lifts where the coins are? Yeah. It's just that little area. My ball sometimes ends up right there and the crate's not open yet. Oh, shoot. I've been lucky. I haven't gotten one stuck there yet. Maybe I just got to play better. I'm just unlucky. Did you get the green plastics that that guy is selling? No. All right, I'll have to show you a picture of mine because I've got it pretty well tricked out. I made a Blood Oath token that goes in the coin door as well. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it goes in that little cash door slot. That's fun. I made a stupid shooter rod. It's a big pencil. I've got a pencil in my I haven't put it in yet but I've got a yellow pencil that I'm going to put in the shoe lane I've got movie replica coins gold coins that are really heavy and a continental credit card that's got John Wick's name on it I didn't know about that sir, okay I've got to trick mine out too alright we'll compare notes yeah I want to elevate this build man I dig it but the LE man, that mirrored back glass This has got to be the best back glass It's the stained glass But even the art on the side It looks like the candles are on I love it The foil and the candles For people that haven't seen the John Wick LE in person Each flame of that candle is foil And so it's reflective as you walk by It looks great man I had to Plus the fact that the LE comes with The expression lighting in the cabinet And the backbox which would be like $700 after market. You know, it makes that high-priced thing a little bit less just because there's more that's packed in there. Yeah, look, I would have liked to have seen a bit more gold on the rails and on the lockdown bar, but, you know, you could change that. Yeah, yeah. Ooh, should I do like a gold coin door? Hmm. All right, now I'm thinking. Now I'm thinking. I've got a magnetized coin door. Yeah. With John Wick pulling a gun at me and some other bits and bobs, I'll send you a photo. Perfect. All right. Well, we'll compare photos. We'll whip our wicks out, and we'll see which one's better. Yeah, let's compare wicks. My wick is better than yours. Mine's goldier. Mine's got better go. Your wick's got a stuck ball on it, though. Yeah, something like that. Sticky ball wick. Sticky, sticky. Sticky ball, Wick. I'm taking some photos now before I forget. Perfect. But I think there's so much opportunity with Wick, and it's just going to get better and better. There's no doubt about it. All right. When do you think the Stern teaser is going to drop? Next week? It's been, like, it's coming in two days. It's coming in three days, and three days comes, and, oh, it's got to be here soon. That's an interesting one because, like, I had a really good insider information. No, no, just someone that's really, you know, been selling Stern for quite a while. Sure. I think, you know, there's always rumors circulating around, and, you know, there's patterns that Stern tends to follow with their releases and stuff. And we all anticipated it was going to be August or end of July, August. And then it got pushed back, obviously, for whatever reason. I don't know. But I think I wouldn't be surprised if we see something. When is the Texas Pinball Festival? That's March. March 21st, I think it will be next year. So if they were to release something now, that gives them time to release something at the end of the year. Yeah. Well, Jaws was in that January release right after New Year's, and then that was their big new game at Texas. Texas. Yeah, so look, I think probably we should see something first week of September, I reckon. Week was like the first week of, I want to say, I can't remember now, actually. I was there, and I can't even remember when it was. Yeah, I was going to say. Everything's been running together. That'd be April or something. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the first week. Yeah. So, look, I wouldn't be surprised if we see something probably next week. I'm excited, man. Yeah, look, any pinball release, Boston's always going to be exciting, get people talking. Pinball, man. Pinball, it's an addictive hobby. Everyone was disappointed that John Wick didn't eat the ball, though. Yeah, we got them loaded up with guns. I think we'll be all right. Yeah. Did you swap the plastic out in the crate with the weapons? As soon as I got my game, heck yeah. Yeah, so did I. So I think that was clever. But, yeah, look, exciting times, exciting times. Perfect, man. Well, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Pleasure. I'm glad we could do one. Hopefully we can kick off many more in the future. Yeah, and you just recorded with Gons too, so we got a chin wag to look forward to. Yeah, yeah, he's eager. He's definitely eager. So I think we'll pencil something he's a hard bloke to get a hold of. Sometimes I can't even get a hold of him. I don't think his own mom can get a hold of him, to be honest. Man after my own heart. I know how that is. so yeah but we'll definitely do something that's for sure cool buddy welcome back anytime pleasure thank you very much for having me yeah and so thanks for joining me if you want to email don spinball podcast at gmail.com it's a way to get to me if you want to hear this whole conversation the before and the after bit check out the patreon at patreon.com slash don spinball podcast five dollars gets you in the door we're always having a party over there always new content dropping when you least expect it just like an avatar photo dropping in your lap from nap arcade i'll talk to you all soon later