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The Pinball Show Ep 155 BONUS: This Or That? Den Den Edition

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·30m 24s·analyzed·Jun 19, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

The The The Pinball Show hosts play This or That game, comparing recent releases and speculating on upcoming unannounced titles.

Summary

The The The Pinball Show bonus episode features Dennis Creasel and Greg Kmiec playing "This or That," a game where they choose between pairs of pinball machines across various matchups. Discussion covers recent releases like Godzilla, Jaws, Elton John, and Stranger Things, with analysis of game quality, rule depth, playfield design, and collector appeal. The hosts speculate on upcoming unannounced games from JJP and Stern, and debate which manufacturer will deliver the better next title.

Key Claims

  • Elton John might be Jersey Jack Pinball best game

    medium confidence · Host (Dennis Creasel) suggests Elton John as a contender for JJP's best, alongside Dialed-In, Wonka, Wizard of Oz, and Guns N' Roses as previous top contenders

  • Godzilla Premium is Stern's best game

    medium confidence · Dennis states he would choose Godzilla LE if given any Stern LE of his choosing, because 'it's Stern's best game'

  • Jaws Premium is significantly more valuable than Elton John, by roughly $5,000 or more

    high confidence · Host directly states 'By like five grand, if not more' when comparing Jaws Premium vs Elton John edition pricing

  • John Wick is early in code development and may improve with future updates

    medium confidence · Dennis notes 'John Wick is so early on code anyway' when discussing comparison with Venom Premium

  • The Muppet Show is rumored as an upcoming Jersey Jack Pinball game

    low confidence · Dennis asks Dennis hypothetical: 'The Matrix or The Muppet Show?' when discussing 'rumored JJP games'

Notable Quotes

  • “Elton John might be JJP's best game”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~12:00 — Introduces new contender in long-standing debate about Jersey Jack's best title; significant as Elton John is relatively new and this signals strong critical reception

  • “Godzilla Premium is Godzilla Premium. It's not going to leave my lineup.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~28:30 — Shows strong personal attachment to Godzilla Premium despite acknowledging GTF's value proposition; indicates long-term keeper status

  • “Dennis broke me. Like, I have to break my own rule here and go Godzilla premium.”

    Greg Kmiec @ ~26:00 — Greg famously defaults to two games over one in value propositions; Godzilla Premium breaking this rule signals its exceptional quality

  • “Toy Story might be the worst one of these four games”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~50:00 — Ranks Jersey Jack's Toy Story as weakest among JJP's premium titles (Elton, Wonka, Godfather, Toy Story)

  • “Based off of the rumored themes jjp's probably got the better theme next”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~70:00 — Dennis expresses confidence in Jersey Jack's upcoming unannounced game theme over Stern's based on industry rumors

  • “the more aware you are, the more fucked up your life becomes”

    Greg Kmiec @ ~71:00 — Closing philosophical quote; context suggests relates to knowledge depth in pinball collecting affecting decision-making

  • “I don't really like Metallica very much... ACDC was a better game. I still think it's a better game.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~59:00 — Contrarian take on widely praised Stern title; expresses zero interest in rumored Metallica remake

  • “Godzilla Premium is so much better. It's got so much more [than Pro].”

    [name withheld pending review] — Emphasizes mechanical differences between Pro/Premium tiers; suggests mechanisms significantly alter shot geometry and gameplay

Entities

[name withheld pending review]personGreg KmiecpersonJack DangerpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyGodzilla PremiumgameJaws Premiumgame

Signals

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Hosts emphasize mechanical features significantly alter shot geometry and difficulty. Godzilla Premium's building collapse and Godzilla mech mechanisms create superior geometry vs Pro. Jurassic Park's Raptor Pit toy more dynamic than Jaws' boat/shark bash (same concept). Playfield design preferences drive game rankings as much as theme.

    high · Dennis: 'the mechanisms change the shot geometry. Not just the building, but also the mech of Godzilla.' Discussion of Jeep vs shark toy mechanics shows toy placement fundamentally changes gameplay

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Godzilla Premium has more developed code than Jaws Premium, which is early in development. Venom Premium features novel state-change rule set. Labyrinth and Pulp Fiction both offer substantial rule depth. Metallica criticized despite skilled designer (Lyman) - rule set alone insufficient if not aligned with designer preferences.

    high · Dennis on Jaws: 'code further along... that's reason enough... codes further develops may change over time of course.' Joel explained Venom Premium rule mechanics at TPF.

  • ?

    product_concern: John Wick Pro is early in code development and may improve significantly with future updates. Dennis qualifies comparisons with John Wick as unfair due to code immaturity. Suggests code quality trajectory affects long-term game standing.

    high · Dennis: 'John Wick, I think, is going to come into its own... Again, it's not the fairest comparison because John Wick is so early on code anyway.'

  • $

    market_signal: Jaws Premium priced at $12,999, Elton John Platinum at $12,000, but Jaws Premium vs Elton John Platinum plus Jaws Pro matchup shows Jaws significantly more valuable by $5,000+. Deadpool Premium plus $3,000 cash still loses to Godzilla Premium alone, indicating Godzilla's strong perceived value.

    high · Dennis: 'By like five grand, if not more. Yes.' Shows Jaws Premium tier pricing creates significant value gap despite similar base machine prices

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.091

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. All right, Dennis, the people want to know, are you going with this or are you going with that?
0:35
Okay, well, I did see it, but I don't remember them. Okay, let's start with the first one here. Oh, all right. The first this or that. This is coming, ladies and gentlemen, if you guys want to follow along, straight out of the middle to the recent this or that. And Dennis is going to make his choice because some of these are not easy. The first being Godzilla Premium or Jaws Premium. I think I know which way you're going on this one. Yeah, Godzilla. Okay. Codes further along. That's reason enough. That is reason enough, but probably even more reasons in the future. But yeah. Well, yeah. I'm going with that. I did as well. Yeah. We'll see where it goes, but I did as well. What about this one? Stranger Things Pro or Jurassic Park Pro? Neither of which you own. I do not. I actually really like Jurassic Park Pro. So I'm going to go with that.
1:27
Stranger Things Pro is fun. And, of course, you can install your UV kit and make it fun and pretty. However, the layout, while the feeds are different, it's just a little too rule set straight out of Attack from Mars. It's just not what I would go for with it. Plus, I don't know the theme. Now, let's say you had the option of going Jurassic Park because you've thought about owning a Jurassic Park. Yes, that's true. Do you need to bump up to the premium, or are you fine with the Pro? No, I'm fine with the Pro.
@ ~32:00
Elton John Platinum Editiongame
Jurassic Park (Pro)game
Stranger Things (Pro)game
John Wick (Pro)game
Labyrinthgame
Pulp Fictiongame
Attack From Mars (Remake LE)game
[name withheld pending review]game
Venom Premiumgame
Deadpool (Premium)game
Toy Story 4 LEgame
Willie Wonkagame
Godfathergame
Foo Fighters Premiumgame
The Matrix (rumored)game
The Muppet Show (rumored)game
Journey (rumored)game
  • ?

    collector_signal: Dennis owns Godzilla Premium and states it's 'not going to leave my lineup' despite having Deadpool Premium (which he prefers to compare). Shows Godzilla Premium has achieved keeper status in serious collector's lineup. Contrasts with speculation-based purchases.

    high · Dennis: 'Godzilla Premium is Godzilla Premium. It's not going to leave my lineup.' Later: 'I've played Godzilla Pro a lot on location... the premium is a vastly superior game'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Elton John emerging as new top contender for Jersey Jack's best game, challenging long-standing consensus around Dialed-In, Wonka, Wizard of Oz, and Guns N' Roses. Host notes 'I could see an argument for it' regarding Elton John's claim to best JJP title.

    medium · Dennis: 'Elton John might be – I'd like a little more time on it, but it might be JJP's best game.' Discussion notes strongest arguments were Dialed-In and Wonka contingents

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts reveal disagreement on whether theme or gameplay should drive purchasing decisions. Dennis heavily weighted by spectacle/looks ('a lot of it is the looks of a game'). Reflects broader collector split between aesthetic appeal vs mechanical depth.

    high · Dennis on Scooby-Doo: 'I play Pinball less than I play Pinball. So I like the looks and the theming... I'd rather Scooby-Doo look good than play Luigi.' 'A lot of it is spectacle for you. A lot of it is.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Labyrinth surprisingly popular despite high difficulty, which typically drives public away. Hosts attribute popularity to novelty, appearance, and 'charisma' rather than difficulty. Suggests modern audience more forgiving of challenging rules if theme/presentation strong.

    medium · Host notes: 'I'm surprised by how popular labyrinth is with this level of difficulty typically whenever level of difficulty goes up uh the public just is not kind to that' but 'they're getting behind it because i think it's new company it looks good'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Hosts discuss rumored upcoming games from Jersey Jack Pinball (The Matrix, The Muppet Show) and Stern Pinball (Journey, Bob Marley, Pokemon, X-Men 97). Dennis believes JJP's rumored theme is stronger than Stern's next title. Admits limited visibility into actual development pipeline.

    low · Dennis: 'you may or may not know a lot about the next games coming out from Jersey Jack Pinball or Stern Pinball... based off of the rumored themes jjp's probably got the better theme next'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Hosts analyze toy placement as fundamental design choice that affects shot geometry and playfield strategy. Jurassic Park's Raptor Pit vs Jaws' shark/boat illustrates how toy design philosophy changes player experience. Dynamic toys (Jeep) preferred over static bash features.

    high · Dennis: 'The Jeep's the toy. It's far more dynamic than the boat with the shark lifting up out of the play field because the Jeep changes the geometry of what you're doing. The boat is a captive ball bash, and then it's replaced by a shark bash. It's the same concept.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Hosts discuss coin-drop vs card swipe preferences. Dennis prefers coin-drop due to credit card fee impact on operators. Mylar vs lane protector debate: mylar preferred for reversibility (wax application allows temp placement). Turning down flipper power affects cliff saves.

    medium · Dennis on card swipe: 'Most of the places around me don't use the card swipe. Yeah. It's not a good deal because the credit card fee is not a good deal for the operator.' On mylar: 'you can use it like it's a temp fit... if I'm getting Cliffies, I'll put in the lane protector'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Hosts consistently debate Pro vs Premium tiers. Godzilla Premium justified by shot geometry changes, Jurassic Park Pro sufficient without Premium toys, Walking Dead Pro adequate despite losing walker bomb software. Edition choice depends on mechanical additions, not just cosmetics.

    high · Dennis prefers JP Pro: 'I'm fine with the Pro. I am not a Greg Bone' on premium upsells. But Godzilla Premium: 'the mechanisms change the shot geometry... the premium is a vastly superior game'

    • 2:01
    I am not a Greg Bone. The Raptor Pit is this toy that offsets all of the Jaws toys. Sorry, spoilers from the review of Jaws.
    2:10
    It's like, whatever. The Raptor Pit's just fine on the Pro. Yeah. But no Sharky Ball? No T-Rex-y ball? You're fine without it? Yeah, I'm fine with it. Interesting. Okay. Let's go to the next one. The Jeep's the toy.
    2:26
    Sorry, Zach. The Jeep's the toy. It's far more dynamic than the boat with the shark lifting up out of the play field because the Jeep changes the geometry of what you're doing. The boat is a captive ball bash, and then it's replaced by a shark bash. It's the same concept. I like that argument. I didn't think about it changing the trajectory of the – I'm not straight down the middle. I'd have challenged you on all sorts of things you said. That's a good point. I went with Jurassic Park Pro on that one. Over Stranger Things? Yes. Really? I didn't remember that, that you had chosen that. Okay. Yep, he went with Stranger Things. Oh, okay. All right.
    3:01
    Oh, this is a good one. Elton John Platinum Edition, so formerly the LE Edition. Elton John plus $500 or Jaws Pro and John Wick Pro. The old two for one there. I still haven't played John Wick because the restaurant was closed when I went to play it. Elton John. Elton John plus cash. He's going with Elton John. I think for you that would be a safe bet. Yeah, just given my lineup, I think it's a better fit. Arguably, Elton John might be – I'd like a little more time on it, but it might be JJP's best game.
    3:39
    And Jaws is not Stern's best game, and I highly doubt John Wick is. What an interesting discussion. We've always wondered what the best Jersey Jack game was. There's so many opinions as to that, but now an even stronger opinion enters the ring of Elton John. Do we think that Elton John is, in fact, Jersey Jack's best game? That's a good discussion to have in the future because I could see an argument for it. I mean, the strongest arguments I've always heard were that there's a dialed-in contingent, and then there's also Wonka has pretty strong support. Those are kind of the three big ones that I think of. A lot of people still like the spectacle and all that's included in Wizard of Oz, too, though. And Guns N' Roses has a lot of spectacle if you're above the standard edition. Yeah. There's a lot of different ones. No, there's a lot of – I think what we're saying is the one thing is everyone agrees it's not Hobbit. I know.
    4:39
    You're right. And everyone agrees it's not Toy Story. That's – yes, because of the four. I still love both, but okay. I went actually with Elton John as well there. Okay, Scooby-Doo or Looney Tunes? Looney Tunes. Looney – okay. Scooby-Doo's layout is – I mean, it's better than Halloween, but – Loopy and wide-body. it's uh you know the theme integration with it's really good i'd say scooby's got better theme integration uh it's probably a better art package as well over looney tunes however looney tunes more conventional layout is a lot more enjoyable to shoot now texas chainsaw massacre last i played had better rules than looney tunes but that's not in the matchup so i'd still go looney tunes over over scooby i just think that upper playfield area there's There's too many horseshoe shots on that game. It's just not fun. It's a long player. For me, it's not very fun. Luigi's I had fun with. I end up going Scooby-Doo because, like I said in the show, I play Pinball less than I play Pinball. So I like the looks and the theming of Scooby-Doo.
    5:43
    And I have so many games and I just, yeah, I'd rather Scooby-Doo look good than play Luigi. Sure, I can understand. It's all just about spectacle for you. A lot of it is. A lot of it is the looks of a game. All right. And Beatles is a weird one. Beatles Gold or Foo Fighters Premium. That was a weird one when you had the matchup. And did Greg go Beatles? He went Beatles. I think he did. I went Foo. And you went Foo.
    6:12
    It just depends on the day for me, honestly. Yeah, Beatles is so... I mean, I guess I would say Foo is the better game overall. So I suppose I would pick Foo Fighters. Though for my own personal lineup, I might be more inclined for Beatles just because it's such a different game. But for purposes of this, I'd say if someone was asking me, Dennis, what should I get between these two? I would tell them Foo Fighters. Yeah, I think it better matches the desires of most hobbies. Yeah, and it's got a lot of creativity. Jack Danger took in a lot of things. It may be stuff that Gottlieb had done back in the day, but it's mixed up in a way that's not going to be familiar to new people. And it works. It really works. It does. It's a fun player. Beatles is brutal. So if you want a really tough game, Beatles might be there. But again, it's hard not to see Sea Witch in it if you've played Sea Witch a lot. That's true. All right. Let's go with, this was Retro Jango, said Godzilla Pro and a John Wick Pro. You get your two pros. Or any Stern LE of your choosing. Any Stern LE of choosing because I get to choose. That's what I went with. Yeah. Greg went with the two pros. Well that because he always plays this numbers game unless he broken on the wheel of a false choice You give him later Yes So because I mean I would say you know I would say give me Godzilla LE instead of the Godzilla Pro Okay so you would go with Godzilla LE Yeah
    7:41
    That's a good pick. Well, because I think it's Stern's best game. I mean, if I were to get any LE that I wanted, you know, Walking Dead LE maybe could have been a good one that I would have. Or Star Trek LE, arguably the most jam-packed LE ever by Stern with the lasers. I would say Walking Dead, I'm fine with my Pro. that's one pro that i own yeah no it's uh i i agree the uh the the in some ways because i had only played an le and a premium for a really long time and then i finally got time on on walking dead pro and it's it's just a mix i like i think the geometry is more enjoyable on the pro however uh i do think that you know losing the walker bomb software option was frustrating And I like the magnet in front of the well walker bash, even though it causes more chaos. But I don't really miss the crossbow. I don't miss that either. Yeah. I do not miss that either. And I don't miss the flappy ramp. Oh, no. That's the part of the geometry being better on the pro. That flappy ramp makes that shot kind of suck. Yeah, it does. It does. What about Pulp Fiction Ellie and the Big Lebowski? Talk about a pretentious pairing there. or oh equally pretentious the james bond 60th anniversary and the attack for mars elite i know how big of a fan you are of the attack from mars but i know how little of a fan you probably are to bond 60th so where do you go there actually um i don't have a lot of time on bond 60th uh i would go with the bond attack from mars oh interesting yeah the i need more time on pulp fiction i was not enamored with it i thought it was enjoyable but i didn't love it when i played it and i big lebowski is a mad game for me great theme integration but and it shoots decent i just but i don't love it see i remember i love attack from mars so early in the show when earlier in the show when you were talking about um that pulp lacking that depth yeah that's kind of what i think of with the big lebowski like that is a game that when i owned it i met i didn't get to the final wizard mode but i'm like oh i see it it's right like it's that one that one felt more formulaic 90s value than that's why i think whoever proposed this did a really good matchup because i think software wise it's depths on par with attack from mars yeah yeah actually it's a lot of similarities it's a very 90s style game all of them i mean even the bond 60th is structured in a way where you get modes, but there are these basic Beatles-like modes. It's so brutal, though. It's so brutal. Yeah, that's where you get it. That's part of the reason I like that matchup better, too, though Pulp was pretty brutal to me when I played it. Yeah, it can be nasty. So for that one, I ended up picking the Attack and Bond combo, and just now seeing that, I should have put Bond 60th first in that edit. Okay, sorry. Oopsies. Too late now. Now everyone's like, people are going to comment. People are going to downvote and say, what? I like to keep it consistent. If I list bond 60th first in the initial presentation of it, whenever we go to our options, I'd like to list it first in the results. Yeah, but you didn't. I see why I didn't because the and sign fits better with it.
    11:11
    Okay. So that just depends on the day because now, I don't know, I might go publicly. Let's go with Pulp Fiction Ellie. A lot of people want to know if Pulp Fiction is the real deal. So Pulp Fiction Ellie or The Labyrinth. I don't know how much time you've got on The Labyrinth. Not much. I have about the same amount of time on both of these games. That's what I'm seeing here.
    11:33
    Shoot, this is tough. Oh, that's a tough one for him. This is actually the first one that's actually making me really pause. Okay. Because I like the theme. Pretty equal for you. and I like the more old-school layout better on Pulp. However, Labyrinth is one of the best world-under-glass captured games I've ever seen. I'd say Labyrinth may be a little bit more difficult shooter than Pulp Fiction 2. It's tough.
    12:04
    You know, I think I'd go Pulp in this instance, though. Okay, so that's about the closest one we got so far. So far, yeah. Okay. Maybe forever. It's a tough pick for me. All right, there's the dog with the tongue issue. The poor dog. Man, he's an ugly son of a bitch. I wouldn't have picked him. That's like an ugly baby. Oof. Throw that thing out with the bathwater.
    12:24
    Let's see. Okay, Godzilla. This is the Dennis Creasel special. This one won't be tough. Dennis is like, look, I'm going to stump Greg Bone because he always just by default picks two games over one. It's always better to have more. And I understand his perspective because if you're building out a collection, having variety is usually far more powerful than having something that's great. Yeah, yeah. Usually. You said fine. Then are you going with Godzilla Premium, arguably one of the greatest games ever made, or Barbecue Challenge and GTF LE? And you say that's the one that folds into the tank. So I don't even put cash on the glass with the Godzilla. It was monetarily the two-furs or way more valuable package. Absolutely. By like five grand, if not more. Yes. And what did Greg say? I hate to spoil it. People should go and watch straight down the middle. They should go and watch. But he basically said, okay, Dennis broke me. Like, I have to break my own rule here and go Godzilla premium. Because all his credibility would have shattered into a million sprinkles of glass. I'm absolutely Godzilla premium. That spell out B-plus when they fall to the ground, yes.
    13:37
    So, yeah, we both went Godzilla Premium. That's a no-brainer. And that's coming from a person who thoroughly enjoys GTF, very much so. You were a little bit more of an enigma to me because the value proposition was so skewed in favor, and I knew you liked GTF. Yes, but Godzilla Premium is Godzilla Premium.
    13:58
    It's not going to leave my lineup. All right, Elton John or Joel's Premium. So this is the one we kind of used on – I had to modify it because Elton John is a $12,000 game. Jaws Premium is $96,000. So I said Elton John Platinum or Jaws Premium and $2,000 or this is a this or that or that or Jaws Elite. They're essentially the same thing. And editor's note, like there was a formatting rendering issue on the straight in the middle video. It did an inset line on my plus sign. It's the font that I used that rendered differently visually from what I see on the screen. Nobody cares. I do because it fucking kills me. It's not a plus with a plus inside of it.
    14:40
    So Elton John, P.E., or Jaws Premium and $2,000, or Jaws, L.E.? I would do Elton John. Wow. Okay. Look at that. So that was big, too, because that was our – basically, that was our centerfold. That was our thumbnail picture was for this or that. Are we going to go Jaws or Elton John? It again in my opinion as code further develops may change over time of course But as it stands like in the Elwynn pantheon I would rather have Godzilla and Jurassic Park over Jaws And I think Elton John like I don have a JJP game and it would be like a really good one to get if I were to get one It's a perfect fit for you. So, yeah, that's kind of the logic. There's a lot in it, too. So yourself, myself, and Greg Bone all chose different ones. He went with Jaws Premium plus 2K. I went with the Jaws LE based on pedigree and what I think it will become. but right now I even said I'm playing more Elton than I am Jaws. Well, that's quite a diverse set we had there. Another one here we've got Labyrinth and Jaws Premium or Elton John Platinum and John Wick Pro. Now this one, this is where I think you'll be stumped because here's your Elton John that you love so dearly but we're throwing a lesser than Stern at this point, a John Wick Pro versus a very strong stern Joel's Premium and a Labyrinth that intrigues you as well. This is challenging. This is very stumpy. Do you still stick with the Elton and play some John Wick, or do you jump over where I think you're going to like Joel's Premium and Labyrinth more than John Wick?
    16:23
    Yeah. I do think I jump over and get the Labyrinth. That surprises me. Yeah. I think if I had more time on Labyrinth, I would appreciate it more than I did at the show that I played it at.
    16:38
    And given that, I do know that I enjoy Jaws. As fun as Elton John is, John Wick, I just don't see. Again, I don't have time on John Wick, so it's really unfair. That's tough, yeah. It just doesn't look like it would be ever anything I would want. and um so that's your breaking point i knew that there was gonna be one wow i just yeah i mean there's a lot of interesting stuff that i'd like to explore more with labyrinth and this is kind of where the the great bone math comes into play where it's like well with jaws which is a really strong title and labyrinth so many people like labyrinth i think it's more just me that it's just not clicked with because i don't really care about the theme uh whereas elton john i don't care about the theme either i just like the gameplay so sure it's like yeah all right in this case the twofer that twofer because john wick doesn't bring anything to the table for me i still i'm surprised by how popular labyrinth is with this level of difficulty typically whenever level of difficulty goes up uh the public just is not kind to that's true they turtles it yeah but uh but they're getting behind it because i think it's new company it looks good and it's loaded down and it's very it's got a lot of charisma. Maybe that's why. So the I'm not going to call these bastard children of Stern Pinball. But the two games that aren't the best sellers of Stern Pinball. Venom Premium or John Wick Premium?
    18:06
    Venom Premium. I went John Wick Premium. Well again, I don't see a lot of interesting difference between the John Wick Premium and Pro. Venom, I've played the Premium and the Pro, the Premium is so much better. It's got so much more. Yes. And that state change stuff, the rule set that Dwight has for that game, I think it's a fun game. I don't think I would ever want the Pro, but I think Venom Premium would be okay in the lineup. Yeah, Greg swears by Venom Premium. He just really likes the Venom game, whereas I'm not as big a fan. And John Wick, I think, is going to come into its own. I think John Wick is actually going to be... It could very well. Again, it's not the fairest comparison because John Wick is so early on code anyway. But Joel kind of explained Venom Premium to me at TPF and it made a lot of sense. It does. I put in a little bit more time locally on the Pro after that and the Pro without the state changing is so disappointing. But the rule set is, I think, very interesting. It's different than anything else I've played. So for the novelty of it all i would favor it anyway i think okay uh toppers mandalorian topper food fighters topper no one cares i don't care mando is the answer but i thought you're just gonna take black knight and say the hell with them both no no the hologram is cool on mandalorian but it is neat all right this is one that uh pits jjp against itself one that we had a great discussion on if you guys haven't seen the video go check it out elton john and toy story or godfather and willie wonka that's a nice little whoever came up with this really balanced it well i think it was streeter or one of our uh one of our goat club members okay not going but one of our nordman oh well they did a good job and so it's it's well thought out this one's uh trick shoot uh Yeah, because essentially you're pitting Willy Wonka against Elton John, which you're probably going to pick Elton John. And then you're pitting Toy Story to Godfather, which I think you're probably a wash on both. But you might. Toy Story is, yeah, it's like, okay. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, Toy Story might be the worst one of these four games is the thing. I knew you would think that. Yes, and Elton John is the best of the four. But Willy Wonka is a really good player. as well i would argue if you if you owned them all i think you would very much enjoy toy story more so than godfather but i don't possibly but godfather has like 26 000 shots it will keep you so busy for so long yes and it's elton and toy story i do elton and toy story that's what i figured yeah i mean i might get tired of the bo peep loops but i'll just smash the crocodile instead.
    21:02
    It is fun to shoot that ramp. The I Am Canada ramp. Oh, it's awesome. The Duke Kaboom. We have Toy Story 4 locally. When I go and play, I do play it. Oh, here we go. Remake special here. The new Funhaus remake. Are you going to take the classic and still have $2,500 in your pocket? Or are you going to go all Midnight Edition and go Funhaus Ellie? I'm not having a creepy doll in the house. Period. Just period. So I'll take the classic and the cash. I'll keep the 10 grand myself.
    21:36
    Okay. All right. So that's that one. Okay. A couple more. Metallica. These are more hypotheticals. Metallica with an LCD conversion. You get all the LCD assets or sticking with a remake of Ghostbusters with its regular DMD.
    21:56
    Ghostbusters. I thought it was an interesting one here. I don't really like Metallica very much. It's weird. Every time I own it, I have so much fun on it for the first month. I played it so much competitively, and Sparky All Day was what everyone had to do.
    22:17
    Occasionally, you could go for the inline draw. There were other things. I played the premiums. I played the pros. I know people who swore by it. I always thought ACDC was a better game. I still think it's a better game. I know Lyman has done a really good job with the rule set on Metallica, but it has never worked for me. I have never wanted it, and I have absolutely zero interest in them bringing it back. And you have said Ghostbusters kind of intrigues you. I kind of wish I had gotten a Ghostbusters when it had come out Yeah As clunky as that layout can be the theme immersion is great The callouts are awesome The rules are fine It hard Dwight going back, and he did fix the rules up a lot better than when it came out. So it fixes a lot of the layout's mistakes. I would argue it made it worse, but whatever. Well, I think the additional ball saves are greatly appreciated for how the feeds can be on it. But, I mean, maybe it's a little too easy now. But, anyway, long story short, yeah, Ghostbusters, I don't care about the LCD.
    23:22
    Same editor's note there on the Flash. I didn't. That wasn't me. Okay. Hypothetically, theme-wise, Harry Potter or the Goonies?
    23:31
    Harry Potter. Here's where you sit on my dream theme, the Goonies. No, well, I mean, the Goonies isn't really that good of a movie. and Harry Potter defined a generation. It wasn't my generation, but it defined a generation. No. Literary and movie-wise. This is more to work with, though. It's not really a fair comparison. It's just because you have a Tom Bombadil thing. If you were asking me, who am I investing in? I'm definitely investing in Harry Potter, not Coonies. Okay. What about these hypotheticals? Bob Marley, because that was rumored, or Journey, which is rumored. Journey. Yeah. But that's total, that's total. It's perfect, yeah. I had a Journey, like, greatest hits album as a kid, so I didn't have any Bob Marley music. What about the rumored JJP games, The Matrix or The Muppet Show?
    24:26
    I would like The Matrix better, but I want it to only be the first film. Agree, and yeah, absolutely agree. I'd go with The Matrix, and it better just be the first one. Yeah. What about what's coming next from Stern, Pokemon or X-Men 97? Or neither?
    24:46
    I would say neither, but I don't really know. Neither. Pokemon would be the better seller. 100%. So that would be the smart move. However, X-Men, I didn't watch the X-Men 90s cartoon, and I've not seen the new remake but I've heard very good things about both so there is a lot of nostalgia for it particularly with pinball demographic but don't underestimate Pokemon's appeal Pokemon just seems like it works so well in gaming that I think that would translate even just as well oh yeah you're going to collect them you could evolve them with shots it's going to write itself absolutely alright some off-the-cuff stuff here. Coin drop or card swipe? Coin drop. Okay. You don't like the card swipe stuff. Actually, most of the places around me don't use the card swipe. Yeah. It's not a good deal because the credit card fee is not a good deal for the operator. Carbon-based balls or polished balls? I don't know enough about either. Oh. I didn't know. There was a key difference.
    25:58
    Polished, I guess, because they're shiny. Yeah. That's what I said. Mylar or a lane protector? Mylar. Oh, okay. And when I tend to do, because two reasons. One, mylar is cheap, and if you don't like what you did, just wax, wax, and then put the mylar down, and then it just comes right up. Oh, interesting. Yeah. That's a nice little tip. So you can use it like it's a temp fit. I've never had it come loose from doing that, but it won't have to worry about ripping anything up or anything. Just wax first, yeah. I say coiled down, but Greg said that's still not enough. Now, a lot of times, if I'm getting Cliffies, I'll put in the lane protector if I buy Cliffies. But a lot of times, I don't know if I agree with Greg on that statement. I found turning down the power is very, very – you can turn it down a lot. Well, some games. Some games, the coders default it to 176. But some coders will let you go down as low as you want. Yeah, but I haven't noticed too much of an issue. I'm wondering this one for you just because you own both. Do you go Deadpool Pro and three grand cash or Godzilla Premium? Godzilla.
    27:08
    Well, I have Deadpool Premium, so. Well, that's true. That is true. But I've played a lot of Pro. And I knew if we pitted the Deadpool Premium against Godzilla Premium, you'd go Godzilla. But I wondered with the cash extra if that would be enough. You have to remember, Godzilla Premium is the one premium game I bought. Yes, and you really, really enjoy that game. And I've played Godzilla Pro a lot on location. I know there are some who disagree with me, but I think the premium, I argue Pro a lot, but I think the premium is a vastly superior game because of how the mechanisms change the shot geometry. Not just the building, but also the mech of Godzilla. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. So we were on the same page for a lot of these. And then the final one was, and you may or may not know a lot about the next games coming out from Jersey Jack Pinball or Stern Pinball or Spooky or anybody, but one of the listeners who's in the industry said, I want to know, based on what you guys know, are you going with the next JJP game or the next Stern game? well that was tricky yeah i don't i don't know but based off of the rumored themes jjp's probably got the better theme next that's fine that's what i think i said it's hard to bet against staring oh my god you know what that sound reminded me of it reminded me of the wixies or the licks or the in the dark crystal i watched i haven't seen the dark crystal i may have seen it as a kid but i have no memory of it it's worth going back but uh to the listener here these patreon listeners i watched easily a top three of the year for me film this last week and will watch it many times again throughout my life. It was the documentary on Jim Henson that was done by Ron Howard, the Idea Man. It's on Disney+. It's a documentary on Jim Henson. It is phenomenal. If you're a child of the, hell, if you're a person of the 70s, 80s, 90s, and you're somewhat familiar with any of Henson's work, it's like a guarantee you will love this film. It was so, so well done and just intriguing to all get out. So it was fantastic. I cannot recommend enough The Idea Man, the Jim Henson documentary by Ron Howard. So good.
    29:51
    But it made me go back and watch The Dark Crystal. I've seen Labyrinth a bajillion times, so I don't need to do that, but it's good stuff. Okay, well, that was this or that. Thank you for doing that. And I'll leave you with a quote by Greg Bone here in the video. Again, go watch it. Quote, the more aware you are, the more fucked up your life becomes.
    30:16
    Interesting. Okay, well, everyone, you can turn it off now. Turn the tape over. Yep, bye-bye.