Silverball Chronicles Ep 42: Hankerin' For Some Hankin Plus Mr. Pinball

The Pinball Network·video·1h 25m·analyzed·Jan 7, 2025

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Silverball Chronicles explores Hankin, Australia's first pinball manufacturer, with firsthand game impressions and corrected Gottlieb Company history.

Summary

Silverball Chronicles Episode 42 features a deep dive into Hankin, an Australian pinball manufacturer that produced seven machines between 1978-1980, with hosts David Dennis and Ron Hallett discussing the company's history, game designs, and production quality based on firsthand experience at Pinball Expo. The episode also includes corrections to previous segments regarding D. Gottlieb & Company's sale to Columbia Pictures, sourced from Michael Gottlieb himself.

Key Claims

Hankin and Company Manufacturing Limited was the first Australian-based pinball manufacturer, producing seven pinball machines between 1978-1980
high confidence · Direct statement from hosts discussing Hankin's history; verified through IPDB and Mr. Pinball sources
D. Gottlieb & Company was sold to Columbia Pictures due to timing (Alvin and Jud's children were too young to take over), not financial necessity, and was influenced by Columbia's interest in acquiring a game company after Atari's acquisition by Warner Communications
high confidence · Michael Gottlieb (son of Alvin Gottlieb, grandson of David Gottlieb) directly emailed correction with family insider knowledge
Alvin Gottlieb frequently told a joke about a fictional self-made man who inherited money to explain his own risk-averse spending philosophy
high confidence · Michael Gottlieb clarification of transcription error from previous episode
FJ pinball (1978) refers to the Holden FJ, an iconic Australian automobile from the 1950s popular with youth in the 1960s-70s, similar to American classics like the '57 Chevy
high confidence · Host research on FJ automobile model; Australian automotive history context
Silverball Chronicles podcast has Australia as its third-largest listening audience by country, after the United States (first) and Canada (second by ~90 listens)
high confidence · David Dennis direct statement about Patreon analytics
Hankin games at Pinball Expo were criticized by Australian attendees, with at least two saying 'They kind of suck'
medium confidence · Ron Hallett's firsthand account of Expo conversations
Orbit One (1978) featured automatic free game percentage calculation technology, which predates Williams/High Speed and was a source of patent litigation between Williams and Gottlieb
medium confidence · Discussion of Orbit One specs compared to High Speed; hosts note uncertainty about whether the implementation differed

Notable Quotes

“Dad and Uncle Jud sold D. Gottlieb Company because they were getting older and neither of them had children that were interested in taking over the business... Further, Atari had been bought by Warner Communications, which sparked an interest in Columbia Pictures acquiring a game company.”
Michael Gottlieb (via email) @ ~13:00 — Direct insider correction to previous episode's speculation about Gottlieb sale; clarifies historical record with primary source
“We are a big deal. And, uh, not only are we a big deal, we are the source for all things history in pinball from here on out forever.”
David Dennis @ ~16:30 — Self-aware humor about responsibility to accuracy in pinball history; frames podcast's community authority
“At Expo where there was lots of Aussies there, at least two of them said, 'Hey, did you play the Hankin games? They kind of suck.'”
Ron Hallett @ ~56:00 — Community feedback on Hankin game quality; suggests underwhelming gameplay despite solid manufacturing
“These are very, very safe, simple playfield designs. There's nothing... Two pop bumpers, captive ball, spinner, two standups.”
Ron Hallett @ ~58:30 — Assessment of Hankin design philosophy; conservative approach without innovations
“FJ refers to the Australian automobile model FJ, made in the 1950s by a company called Holden. Reportedly, these were an iconic youth car in the sixties and seventies, much like in North America if you had a '57 Chevy or a '32 Ford coupe.”
David Dennis @ ~35:00 — Context for Hankin FJ pinball theme; explains Australian automotive culture reference

Entities

Hankin and Company Manufacturing LimitedcompanyDavid Hankinperson Michael Gottliebperson Alvin Gottliebperson David GottliebpersonSilverball ChroniclespodcastDavid DennispersonRon Hallett

Signals

?
event_signal: Silverball Chronicles hosts major tournament (Silverball Rumble) at Pintastic in April; shows podcast's institutional role in tournament circuit
high · David Dennis mentions Silverball Rumble is 'our tournament' and Silverball Chronicles tournament; appears to be co-branded event
?
community_signal: Silverball Chronicles cultivating strong Patreon community with tiered benefits (early access, Discord, merchandise) and international reach (Australia, Sweden, Canada sales)
high · Multiple mentions of Patreon tiers, merchandise sales to Australia, international listener distribution
$
market_signal: Australian pinball culture and community is significant enough to warrant dedicated episode series; podcast has strong Australian listener base (3rd largest by country)
high · Part 2 of Australian manufacturer series; Silverball Chronicles lists Australia as 3rd largest audience; multiple shirt sales to Australia despite shipping costs
?
product_concern: Hankin machines received negative feedback from Australian community attendees at Pinball Expo ('they kind of suck'), despite solid manufacturing quality
medium · Ron Hallett: 'at Expo where there was lots of Aussies there, at least two of them said, Hey, did you play the Hankin games? They kind of suck'
?
technology_signal: Hankin Orbit One (1978) featured early solid-state technology including Motorola 6802 microprocessor, on-board sound synthesis (16 notes), and automatic free game percentage calculation predating High Speed

Topics

Hankin pinball machines (Australian manufacturer history)primaryD. Gottlieb & Company sale to Columbia Pictures (history correction)primaryPinball history and preservationprimaryPodcast community engagement and Patreon supportsecondaryAustralian pinball culture and audiencesecondaryHankin FJ and Orbit One game design and featuressecondaryAutomatic free game percentage calculation technology (patent history)secondaryCorrections, accuracy, and fact-checking in podcast contentsecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Generally positive tone about Australian pinball culture and podcast community engagement; self-critical about errors and accuracy responsibility; mixed assessment of Hankin game quality (solid manufacturing but underwhelming gameplay according to Australian players)

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

[Music] the pinball network is online launching silverball Chronicles all right ready to jump in What what are we what what is this episode on this is going to be a surprise for you we'll just jump in huh oh okay [Music] hello everyone I'm David Dennis and this is silverball Chronicles and with me is Ron uh Hallet that's my last name h a l l TT I always give you like a funny middle name uh I guess you couldn't think of one veite oh is that going to be related to what we're talking about it is it is what's up fella you play X-Men yet yes yeah did the shooter Lane work no ah I did figure out a way to pull the plunger back and kind of jam it off to one side and release it and then it worked ah the old sideways jam it release it it's a classic well Stern has a fix coming out so that's good it's really excited I was I'm really excited to play that you know pintastic coming up in April up here here which is uh which is up in the uh the Northeast that's only 5 months away it's only 5 months away the countdown has started wow the countdown is started already okay not they have the silver ball Rumble which is a uh a major tournament yes major tournament which is our tournament silver ball Chronicles and the silverball rumble I don't know if anybody knew that oh really I I didn't know that either cool it is our tournament ah yes and we always represent well well you do I drink too much and embarrass myself on a stream well I I haven't made finals for that one in a long time so I'm not exactly representing well either well you're representing they're representing well uh Ron we have seen a lot of people joining us over at for I think the American barbecues all the tips that the Americans have with barbecues huh I think they called them Barbie a shrimp on the barbie yes oh don't don't at least I didn't do with the accent so well okay I thought we could go a whole episode without the stereotypical kind of Australian things that probably drive them insane like the Foster beer the Foster beer yeah the knifey spoon and remember it's that's not a knife that's a knife so you know we've had some people pop in for a couple months and leave just to say thanks they've they've come in if you're in our middle tier which is $6 a month you get early adree access to the show you can jump into our private Discord chat room you also uh get the barbecue tips which I mean are a big deal right have you used any of these barbecue tips uh um no I don't actually like barbecue oh my God I'm sorry I thought I knew you I'm sorry yeah I thought you knew me I don't like much so oh man you like pizza that's it uh pizza's good yeah you know what's also good our Discord yeah so come on in there you get a free sticker after three months if you drop up to the elitist category there's where you're going to get after a 3-month period you're going to get all the same things but you're also after 3 months you're going to get a silver ball Chronicles t-shirt so thank you very much for our new patrons and all of the shenanigans that have come from that now Ron we're always on Facebook as well that's another great place to chat with us so swing on over facebook.com/ silverball Chronicles and please leave us a five-star review wherever you found us that way more people will see us will rise up in the algorithm are you familiar with the algorithm why would say four stars is the highest or six then give us those Stars okay but but five is really the best right that's the way to do it uh if you just want a t-shirt just to say thanks we've sold a lot of t-shirts some of them went to Australia and we also sold a mug to like Michigan so cheers to the guy who bought the mug a Michigan mug yeah I well it's not a Michigan I'm sure it's made in China I thought it was made like in Canada of the finest um what Canadian maple yes that's right just like the uh playfields of barrels to fun machine barrels of fun machine Maples wait a minut they're made out of maple I think I think it's made out of Canadian maple no wasn't that the other one the ones who did py Factory oh don't we don't talk about that they're the ones I believe that said they that was made out of whatever that's where I was getting that from pinball Adventures that's what their name is yeah that brings us uh to the corrections and concerns from our mailbag that's over at silverball Chronicles gmail.com the first one was uh you and I made some Simpsons jokes and Joe cherino reached out and he made some corrections did he reach out to you or just me ah what what what did we say wrong so the first one is we were talking about reer Worf Castle the character that does the Austrian accent isn't it wolf Castle right something like that wolf Castle yes he the arold Schwarzenegger of the show yes right well we actually uh made reference to him and use the incorrect name we use the name mcbaine which is his character in the film H God that he plays in is this what what did I say something like I not my job to read but to lead or to lead not to read but he does that when he's Governor which he's not McBain when he's Governor exactly that that needed a correction that needed the correction the other thing was that I made the comment that oh my eyes burn right from the episode where he's playing reer wolf Castle is playing what was the character that he played is radioactive man radioactive man so we we screwed that up so that was a big a big deal Joe uh I think we've actually lost quite a few credit points with Joe we're now down the list of respect when it comes to podcasters in the pinball industry I think we're we're down there with the loser kids now we didn't even talk about when he was commenting on his adult film career rer wolf Castle yes we we left that on the table the other thing was we had a whole section A whole little like five minute conversation about why did D got Le and Co get sold and I said that I was never able to find a primary source of David godle or Alvin God specifically saying kind of why it was sold off to Colombia pictures well the man himself Michael gotle reached out and he gave us a piece of the missing link but before I get into that who is Michael gotle Michael gotle is the son of Alvin gotle yes and the grandson of the D in D gotle and Co David gotle so he's in the no he knows what's up well Michael said dad and uncle Jud sold deot lean company because they were getting older and neither of them had children that were interested in taking over the business jud's boys were all doing their own thing and my brother and I were too young further Atari had been bought by Warner Communications which sparked an interest in Columbia Pictures acquiring a game company D Gotti had used capital gains and Columbia Pictures had a tax loss carryover forward that year so it made sense from a tax perspective as well it had nothing to do with the hospital dad and uncle Jud were both on the board of the hospital and it was doing great so there you go it just it comes down to timing right so Alvin was able to spend all that time working with David kind of learning the ropes manufacturing you know doing little sales building relationships but D but Alvin's children Michael being one of them were too young and jud's boys were off doing their own thing so it was just timing perhaps if Michael and his uh and his um siblings were born a little sooner that transition would have taken place and there you go once again Atari screwing it up for everybody right poor Atari right everybody following Atari thinking oh my God if atari's doing it it must be smart the thing is that kind of thing happens all the time with family run businesses 100 I can name a bunch we we have in my area here we had a a jeweler fle Jewelers they've been around forever I don't know how many generations they're in but they just had there a big going out of business sale because the current generation did not want to do it anymore yeah well I think it was because their son Howard finle went to play uh football for the Dolphins isn't that correct a that's so bad you could have said Howard fle he later went on to announce for WWE or something yeah uh now the other thing that Michael had pointed out was actually a big error on my part yeah you really blew this one I really this is this is like legitimately usually we we joke because we always get like a bunch of like silly Corrections or we get Corrections from Bruce Nightingale the co-host of the slam tilt podcast yes my other podcast check it out and then we just ignore those or all the names we say wrong which is most of them exactly but this one's actually like a legit error so so so we've corrected our previous episode so if you go back and listen to the DG God Le episode you like it's it's gone the reference to um an uncle who passed away and left an inheritance to David Godly that has been completely removed so you will never hear that again unless it's this podcast what had happened here was that during the uh listen back to this one it was it was a bit difficult to hear because of a couple of accents and people talking over each other and then the transcription software didn't write it out so I had two issues one is the software didn't write the the the words out and the other one was that it was a bit cross talky so it was difficult to hear so I sent that document uh the the the the audio file off to uh Michael and he listened and confirmed because he knows how his father speaks that this was uh the joke about an uncle who died and left somebody you know a bunch of money in an inheritance was a a joke that Alvin Godly would often tell about a fictional self-made man who inherited a bunch of money where his father had worked for every single penny and was and that was the major reason he was so tight and was so risk adverse when it came to spending his money does that make sense makes perfect sense to me yeah oops except the part you said out I don't know what that is but so anyway I wanted to like personally apologize to the god leaves for throwing in kind of a a a comment or thing in our because we are I don't know if you know this or not Ron uh a big deal and uh not only are we a big deal we are the source for all things history in pinball from here on out forever oh really we better not get anything else wrong yeah that's right so that's why we're that's why I wanted to make that correction now I didn't have to make that correction I could just you know H whatever but I mean I I want to do the best job possible so that's why we made that correction and nobody will ever hear of us making a mistake ever again it's important that history is correct yes well I mean it's this is because of you oh really you should have you should have known that this was not correct and you should have stopped me okay cuz you usually do that is true that is true I've saved you many times but oh the stuff that has hit the editing floor but all those situations were stuff I was actually there for so I knew it was wrong yeah all right good stuff but you know what I wasn't there for our subject today oh do you ever find yourself craving Ron uh do you ever do youever do you ever hanker for something something special hanker H we have had multiple people email and we have had inquiries uh when we are out in the public about a little known company called hanen some might say that all of these people had a craving for another Australian based episode after our huge hit a couple of months ago let's go down under with part two hankerin for hanking you had to say down under huh I did at least I didn't say shrimp on a Barbie Pinball's big in Australia you know that oh yeah it it's un it's unusually large for uh such a small country uh it's far away from where most pinball is created but yet it is it's a it's big a lot of Australian podcasters are down there as as opposed to your you know English podcasters from Australia exactly or the German ones in austr okay yeah yeah now it's usually the Greeks in Australia that the Australians don't like yes now we're big in Australia did you know that uh I did not know that I don't look at the stats we are a big deal oh that's that's why I wanted to correct our previous episode cu the United States is clearly the number one listing group and I would assume Canada's two Canada is number two but only by like 90 listens oh the third largest is Australia wow and oddly enough Sweden after that which is weird so hello Sweden not really it's it's pretty big there is it big and seden yeah huh I think that's pretty cool I think that's pretty cool we've sold shirts to Australia I don't know why they wanted to because the shipping is a fortune but thank you and if you're an Australian and you want any shirts silverball swag.com silverball I was saying you're going to be a pentastic so if any of you were going to pentastic you can just get a whole bunch of them yeah shoot me an email in case I don't think anybody comes to like Boston when they come from Australia right it doesn't seem like a Australian destination Los Angeles you know Disney World you know maybe Chicago way to New York City or something Texas yeah that's true there you go but Boston Boston's pretty cool but we're in it's in Marlboro which it's not Boston the first Aussie pinball company was hanen and Co manufacturing limited and it's basically known as hanen now this is the australian-based entertainment company that in 1978 decided to dip its toe into pinball manufacturing so I went over to their website and this is what it says well it says a hanen and company provides any venue with a vast array of entertainment and Atmospheric Solutions long established and highly regarded we have been servicing the hotel and Club industry since 1955 a hankin and Company maintains an edge on all competitors by managing to stay at the Forefront of the music and pool table industry through continual investment into new research and development and by subsequently improving existing products and ultimately meeting the everchanging market demands when launching new products on a regular basis so they do uh basically a lot of digital Juke boxes uh and you know stuff for venues like clubs and audio visual pool tables I wonder what kind of new products come out in the pool table Market different colors I've heard there is so much change in the Slate industry recently like do the pockets light up different colors I'm just wondering yeah exactly how do you innovate on a pool table basically there's probably a way but nailing down what the company actually has been is today and and you know over the time has been kind of difficult like for example they made Seven pinball machines between 1978 and 1980 however ipdb only lists them as five so there's like it's the episode's a bit muddled it's a little bit of a thing here so I'm letting you know that when I looked for my sources things did get weird in 1978 they had dark Rider it sold 1,200 units in 1978 they had Liquid Lightning that sounds wet yeah that could be like the diarrhea game or something sounds sounds shocking God we're we're on a roll here this is great those games are listed in the Mr pinball list and price guide from 2018 when I looked that one up but those two games are not listed on ipdb so they were either video or they were conversion kits uh for existing machines these games in loose release order are are are listed here so we're going to usually we'll go through games in chronological order when they were released but some of them kind of over lap or they were released at similar times or one was released and then actually manufactured after the other so it's a bit of a muddled is here but I'm going through as best as I can so please it's it's it's we're doing our best here the games are mostly uncredited designs as well but I believe that they were most likely designed by David hanen who is the owner and founder of hanen Ron you have played all of these games recently yes recently yes these were all at pinball Expo so we have firsthand account of the the stunning events of this company and the machines that they produced oh this is exciting so first out of the gate how are these games are they built well do they feel solid uh they feel like a pinball machine so so are they are they Stern Electronics kind of wish or are they more like you know modern Bal Williams like built like a rock uh it's tough to tell that just by playing it I didn't take them apart or lift the Playfield up or look at any of the max you didn't give them a jiggle um I mean they didn't fall apart they didn't squeak no back glasses looked good as good as back glasses that old are going to look Okay so at first glance goodlooking pinball machine doesn't look weird right they look normal backbox Playfield they're not they're not Atari weird looking no no and they don't have odd-shaped back boxes or weird Square pop bumpers like some of those European companies no okay so we're off to the races here oh literally literally their first machine was called FJ it's a hot rods and car theme it's from 1978 it sells 1,020 units and it has uncredited art but it's believed that it was Michael Egleston hope I got that one right what's an FJ okay so an FJ I had to look this up foot Joy it's a golf related no right here's the thing when you throw in FJ into Google you get some some some difficult uh returned results okay so be care careful if you're doing that around the family but what I did do is I th threw that in there and I added the uh Australian kind of thing and then it came up with what is an FJ this is something that is and and everybody who's listening to this in Australia is like well of course I know what that is right but we don't know what that is here in North America uh I think it was a TJ right wasn't that a Jeep Jeep TJ that was the thing up here so okay we're in the closer area FJ refers to the Australian automobile model FJ made in the 1950s by a company called Holden reportedly these were an iconic youth car in the 60s and 7s much like in North America if you had a 57 Chevy or a 32 Ford Coupe Coupe no it's Coupe no it's Coupe why does it have an e the end the 30 324 Deuce Coupe I know you say Coupe but it's coup I I say it the correct American way yes Holden became a division of General Motors in the 30s and in 2020 ceased trading after 164 years now this I did know I do know who Holden is because they popularized the Ute do you know what a ute is uh that's what um what's his face called youths in my cousin Vinnie yeah no no no Ute are like utility vehicles down in down in Australia but it's not like in North America where you have a sport utility vehicle those are the car trucks you know what I mean that it's a car that has a that has a truck bed on it like an El Camino are you with me sure sh it's it's look look it up a look up uh throw it into the Google here I got to I got to show you now cuz now I got to get your I got to get your El Camino wasn't that a Clint Eastwood movie no that was Grand oh gr Torino oh so there that thing ah you know what I mean so it's like a car but it's a truck yeah I've seen those we used to there was an arrow I saw a lot of those but yes these are a big deal in Australia to the point of that they still made them for many many I think they still make them today but these are like a these are like a cool kind of car down there and I'll tell you that Australians have some really really sweet Utes down there these cars like like legitimately there was like a voxel I think at one time that was like had like a huge Corvette V8 in it or something well worth to to throw that into the Google machine and look some of those up because there's some cool ones but getting back to pinball come on man that's I love cars okay so back to pinball let's click on the flyer cuz you're coming to the coming out of the gates here right you got to have a flyer we know we love our flyers and you got to smash it out of the park to use a cliche to ensure that we are launching a new company in Australia the first manufacturer in Australia so they're not manufactured elsewhere brought in in manufactured it is 100% made in Australia what do we see here exciting it's fast it looks good it's reliable easy to service and under warranty it's competitive it's the right place and it's Australian yes top saucer bonus multiplier that sounds like a b shoot it up to the top into the saucer that's what that sounds like return ball to the action area of the Playfield come on Aussies come on light spinning targets and star rollovers wait a minute it has a revolutionary new Target system oh which I can't read cuz you're are not zoomed in enough for me I can't see I think if I get any further it's going to be oh that's better a automatically steps varying Target value exciting skill shooting to obtain extra ball completing all through rows starts special sequence oh adjustable stepping speed of spotted targets optional memory recall on targets oh that's actually fancy right this is that kind of late' 70s uh when we're moving from the EM era into solid state right so now we can have some of these fancier little additional things like memory recall targets I like their little saying they got in there come on Aussie come on yeah I wonder what that must be a thing be the first in your street in your street not on your street that's weird be the first in your street with an FJ you and your customers deserve it yeah okay when we're looking at this we've got like three pop bumpers in the middle of the Playfield right we've which is you know pretty standard back in the day for those things we've got your Italian bottom right sling flipper flipper sling so then we've got an in lane and out lane so we're looking pretty good there but above the outlanes there's these uh what do they call those those holes uh cap captive holes they're saucers aren't they saucers that's the word frig I'm blank the saucers drop Targets on the left with like Flames looks like a drag strip and it has two really awesomely placed Spinners what do you think Spinners are awesome is this a wide body I'm trying to remember I just played these so I can't remember you just play I it looks like a standard body to me in this picture well it would it would say if it's a wide body somewhere in the listing it looks cool and a lot of the posts very very close to the flippers very dangerous looking game this one looks fun what do you think okay not not so much he says let's put it this way at Expo where there was lots of Aussies there uh at least two of them said hey did you play the hanking games they kind of suck that's what they told me they told me and they they're the Australian they're the Australians so you know you gotta have some pride start somewhere you gotta start somewhere man you got to start somewhere so that brings us to the second game also made in 1978 that's Orbiter one no and it's it's it's Orbit One Orbiter one would be the that would be the St oh is this is this a prequel or maybe this is a maybe this is a sequel to orbit or maybe it's a sequel to Super orbit science fiction fantasy theme sells 1,020 units the same amount oddly enough as the FJ game so it's like they must have just ordered that amount of Parts uncredited design and art but again was probably David hanen that did it the game is named after an arcade that hanen opened in Newcastle Australia in the late 70s around Newcastle but yes yeah well whatever I'm just trying to be accurate we're not into details here we know that from the last episode so this is an awesome flyer but it also says first Australian pinball yeah so I don't other one kind of said that so this is where I'm getting into the like weird crossing over of when they were made and released because the other one kind of made it sound like it was the first now this one is saying first now they were also made in the same year so it's possible that they were launched at the same time like at the same show it's one to four players three or five balls space age electronic score sounds bill bu in self test system front wait a minute frontend programming I don't know what that means that must be like uh keeping track of like money and stuff feature memory wait a minute automatic free game percentage calculation oh that sound we had a whole thing wait a minute that was done on high speed you mean to tell me orbit one had that first well here's the thing like seven or eight years into before that this was a whole a whole thing with Harry Williams and got Le right we talked about this where Williams was suing God Le or they had to pay a bunch of fees for their automatic free game percentage calculation it must be a different type of automatic free game yeah that's got to be different than what I'm thinking it might like it might be the same thing but maybe the calculation itself like the algorithm is different I mean if they did it that that far before high spe did it that's impressive yeah and it has a six-month warranty on its boards for for those people moving from uh electromechanical into to this whole solid state era I bet you that was a huge concern was how reliable are these boards going to be because all I have to do is file and clean the you know the stepper motor the the computer in the M system right where this is a whole thing that I don't understand has a six months warranty uses the Motorola 6 802 microprocessor it is 4ks 4K of memory all of the ks let's see well I like this 25% less componentry I didn't know that was a word than most us-made machines yeah it's got less crap switches allow 11 different pricing levels cheat proof income total totalizer totalist what does that say to to o t a l total isolator total isolator sure automatic free Gain percentage calculator I really want to know how that works if you know what that is throw that in silverball Chronicles gmail.com that's something we'd like to know I'd like to know what that means yeah um if anyone at Past Times arcade knows what that means because they have all these games there yeah there you go there you go has own on board quote unquote on board microprocessor enabling sound to be produced simultaneously with score prevents tedious and costly delays particularly particularly when a machine is counting off bonus points yeah sorry everybody this is a bit blurry that's why we're having a hard time oh you're having a hard time I I could read it I wonder if that means it could play The Sounds simultaneously with saying like I I don't have to wait to play all the sounds sound system has the ability to create 16 different notes whoa which when combined with wave shape uh what I don't know what that says alterations alterations literally enable it to produce a limitless Limitless number of different sounds yeah so yes you're not having any trouble at all reading through this blurry text I just don't know what that word is it's amazing let's take a look at the Playfield let's look at this back glass this back glass is pretty awesome it's like a it's like a planets it's it's got the mirring the mirror got to have the mirroring man the mirroring it looks like I wish we did more it's Planet silverball it looks like yeah so cool so cool see I'm a sucker for these old like the cool thing about science fiction art and this goes back to like pinball machines or films or movie posters or comic books science fiction art around different eras is so cool because it's you can distinctly look at it and be like oh that is totally like' 70s you know science fiction art and it's so distinctly different than science fiction art today it's so cool but this is another kind of unique Playfield it has what looks to be a captive ball on the left side that bounces up to hit hits a Target there's an orbit spinner that kind of has one of those Loops in the middle so instead of going all the way around the orbit it's got like a horseshoe the captive ball on the left it's in a thing that looks I think it's supposed to look like a rocket but it actually looks just like the inline drop Target area of future Spa yeah and it looks like a boat it doesn't look like a rocket it looks like a boat just kind of the weird shape of it but it's a unique Playfield it's kind of neat right it's it's got that old Stern kind of looking feel to it although I look weird enough to be an oldster like it has a couple like you look at it you're like oh that's kind of cool and then I think when you play it you're gonna go uh that's kind of gross yeah I i' say I played all five of them and there was nothing in any of them that was like offensive like oh my God what were they thinking okay so do you think they're stealing ideas from anybody or do you think he's uh well we'll get to that but no I mean these are these are very very safe simple Playfield designs there's nothing two pop bumpers captive ball spinner two stand three standups yeah pretty straightforward very simple game looks like it's fun looks like a fun game if you had this in your basement you'd enjoy it for sure it's no stars oh well you know nothing is Stars but yeah snow Stars how about this is the one this is the game I was like confused me like who is this it literally says that Dennis Lily's howat howat h o w z- a t I'm like that's got to be that means something in Australia I have no idea what that is a h w z but it turns out Dennis Lily I guess is a cricket player yeah so how's that I would assume it would be like how is that which is like jammed together in Australian way Dennis what is Dennis Lily's Hower something like that so that's how I would Su so yeah it's Cricket themed only 350 units uncredited all around and this one is in fact a widebody this brings me to who the hell Isn so I Googled Dennis L and this is like everybody in Australia and if anybody listens to us in you know like Australian cricketing or the cricket world is going to think like how do you not know who Dennis Lily is and and to us in North America Cricket is not a thing unless you're from away and you play cricket here amongst your community but like Canadians don't play cricket I was actually hoping he'd be like an Australian football player so I love that stuff see that's cool cuz then you could be like or a a rugby guy right rugby Australian Rules Football to me is very Australian cuz it's Australian Rules Football yeah isn't that soccer no no Australian Rules Football they play with a football it looks more like an American football but they have to punch it to each other or kick it to each other and if they kick it in the air and the guys all jump up if the guy catches it it's a mark and they have to clear out of his way and then he gets like a free kick and stuff and there's what four goal posts you kick it between the the middle two I think it's like six points some just like in us and in the outer two or one or two points or something and these guys just tackle each other and stuff it's great it's like Canadian football where like ah that uh that Field's not big enough let's make it a little bigger and then all the players that aren't good enough in the NFL can come play here you know the Dennis Lily he was rated as the outstanding fast bowler of his generation so okay this this brings me to this thing so I Googled Dennis Lily and he's this Australian retired cricketer and then as you say he's the outstanding fast bowler of his generation so then I'm like oh God now I got to look up a bunch of other words that I don't understand so Lily formed a new ball partnership with Jeff Thompson which is recognized as one of the greatest bowling pairs of all time so now I got to look up bowling which I think is throwing the ball and then I got to look up this Jeff Thom this Jeff Thompson guy Thompson without a p Thompson now by the time of his retirement David Lil's retirement from international cricket in 1984 so this is 5 years after this game is made or or six years after this game is made he had become the world record holder for the most test Wicks wickets at 355 and had firmly established himself as one of the most recognizable and renowned Australian sports persons of all time what's his name David Lily no it's Dennis Lily Dennis ly Dennis ly David Dennis that's my name so now I got to look up what the heck of test Wicket is no you don't he was part of the Australian Squad which finished his runner up Runners up at the 1975 Cricket World Cup and in 2009 Lily was inducted into the ICC Cricket Hall of Fame yes so that means when this game was made he was still active yes he was still a big deal Cricket is the sport not big in North America much bigger in British colonies and in India bowling and bowler that's the pitcher who throws the ball so they do it all crazy like like their arms made of Jello-O which is kind of neat a wicket that's the posts that are up behind the the Cricut bat person who holds the bat and the bowler has to hit the wickets down and a test is apparently the longest format of the game which is very historical and prestigious and can end up being played over five days that's right yeah because they can just keep going yeah you think watching a stream of pinball is I think that would never that would never work in this country in the US they they they would insist the game ends they had to speed up baseball because it was too slow so let's take a look at the Playfield this when you played and this is the one that confused look yeah the back glass it just got the dude's face like right in the center you know who that strikes me so it says Dennis Lily how's that and then there's like cricketer like looks kind of looks like Yanni he looks like Yanni so he's got dark long hair and this super thick black mustach yes hey pin heads I just wanted to let you know that when I'm not doing this podcast and making bad jokes I'm Dave the financial guy at Dennis Financial our advisers strive to provide a return on life for our clients not just a return on investment the value of advice is something that we take very seriously a valuable advisor doesn't just provide investment advice they share wisdom and this is where the true value of an adviser emerges don't take my word for it just listen to Ron Sterling an average Canadian yeah he if you're in Canada Dennis Financial is for you if you're looking for a more human Dimension to your financial advice Dennis Financial Inc has you covered with advisers licensed in most Canadian provinces we're also doing secure online video meetings contact me via email at David Dennis financial.net for a free rate quote and a copy of our value of advice ebook or check out Dennis financial.com when they have the baseball team uh that's and Mr Burns makes Mr and Mr Burns makes him um shave his his uh okay you're really get okay it's a softball team and he makes Don madingley shave off his yeah because get a haircut because there was an incident where they told him to get a haircut when he was with the Yankees so they wanted to make fun of it yeah so he looks like him cuz he's got that big fraking mustache the dark hair it's hilarious and on the flyer it just has how's that Dennis lies how's that love it this game this is awesome bin ball with the speed and excitement that only Dennis Lily or David Lily if you're David Dennis can match henin new wide bodied pinball see they're they're plugging that that's widebody featuring two sets of drop targets and dual flippers test the skills of every player yeah so so hanen is not immune from the late 70s early 80s freak out over holy crap I'm looking at this you know I I've commented in the past how many times Arnold schwarzeneger is on Terminator 3 like he's on it so many times this game beats him hands down I'm losing track of how many Dennis lies are on this game one two three four five six seven oh all the pop bumpers all three pop bumpers or him it's like if you had a kiss and jeene Simmons was just on all four pop bumpers like he probably would want to be but yeah so you can see that that apparently the bowler the the pitcher if you will they they like like an actual baseball pitcher hold the ball a certain way and then it makes the ball spin in weird ways it's his hand is like all over and the ball being thrown and it's like it's the thing awesome you know you need how's that like Australia needs Lily love it you know oh I like this extra large cash boox comes with because you're going to need it wait a minute each solenoid individually fused damn that's a lot of fuses unless unless there's not a lot of solenoids but it looks it looks packed right it also has the automatic free game calculator yeah there is a a pop Bumper in the bottom of the left of the lower Playfield sort like the it's the Paragon position the dungeon or whatever no no it's uh keep going it's oh you're it's like the cave BEAST's Slayer the layer there you go see a beast can have a layer in a cave mhm then you go up the Playfield you got drop targets right right in front of the four flippers yeah it's got the five Targets in front so it kind of looks like what has sucker targets well I'm trying to think what was the Steve Ritchie one that he did the wide body Superman no the one after the wide body he did after that one at Williams oh yeah darn it but it reminds me of that with the target in the front but yeah Superman I think has the same deal with the five Targets in front yeah two spinners everybody loves a spinner mhm nice captive uh uh you know spot on the right side a saucer it's got the flip so the so it's got a set of flippers right in front of those five drop Targets on the left side which is just terrible if you ask me they don't really shoot at anything but then the one on the left side it's almost like uh Genie right where it's got the drop targets at the top and it's got the Flipper on the bottom left side a little bit of that into a and then there's a spinner up there it looks cool and you played this and it was not good why why was it not good I I honestly I can't remember I just remember one of the five I actually was like ah I kind of like this one and that was it I didn't hate any of them does it suffer does this one suffer from that kind of widebody like H the ball kind of Lumbers around and takes a while and you're like I wish it was F no they all they all play pretty fast okay that's good God he's all over the Playfield I don't this has to be a record actually I'm going to put it out there if anyone wants to email us if they can find any Playfield that has more instances of the same dude yes cuz I'm I'm counting it's literally the same guy on the front of the Playfield here right he's he's throwing the ball so it's what it is is one picture with his hand up the top one of it coming down one of it fully all the way down I'm counting at least 15 instances of him like three on the bottom are the batter I don't know if that's actually he's like on every plastic one two three four five six seven insane 8 9 10 11 12 13 was there an issue with approvals thir there's 13 and then on the back glass 14 I was like no mate I'm not on there enough more so what was that 14 and that's right he's on the back class at least another five times oh my God unbelievable if you can find any other pinball machine that has the character we challenge our listeners it doesn't have to be I'm not going to qualify it by saying it has to be the licensed person no just has to inst the same character this many times good good on you Australia good on you good for you or B or bad on him if he had a huge ego and demanded that he'd be on the game that many times you know I bet you what it was is is the hanken team realized that they had like a huge star and they wanted to put him all over it so they could like fawn over him and talk to him and say like look what we made for you and all it's like it's like if uh Wayne Gretzky came to a Canadian team a Canadian manufacturer was like can you make me a pinball machine everybody there would be like oh my God it's Wayne Gretzky well it'd be like they didn't get any permission to make the game from him so they figured they put him on it enough he couldn't turn it down like oh my God I'm on this thing like 20 times this is great yeah okay do you have a favorite uh week of Television I don't watch television you don't watch television you don't have a favorite you don't have a favorite time of the year gee I wonder if maybe maybe shark week would be my favorite time of year yeah there you go the next game is shark this this is the one I actually kind of liked it's a futuristic underwater surfing shark attack Thief yeah it's Jaws but they probably didn't have license so it's just shark but but in Jaws they did not surf space suits this is like Cosmic gunfight if it's about sharks somehow so in Australia like surfing is a thing that's like a whole subculture going to the beach it can't look as these people surfing though it's it so it where I'm from going to the beach is like that but we don't have like Australian beaches where we're at right like we're we're in Northern Atlantic Province it's freaking cold here even all the time like you get used to the cold water we don't really like when we surf here we wear like full wet suits looking at the back glass I like it even more now Isn't that cool it's got sharks it's got people surfing on like futuristic surfboards wearing like space suits all the score displays have shark teeth around them and I just realized being eaten the whole border of the back glass is shark teeth four eyeballs four random eyeballs in the corner I don't know if those are the shark eyeballs or those the eyeballs of the people that are left over because they've been eaten by a shark or those are the eyeballs that Wesley Snipes popped out of the guy's head and Demolition Man I think here's the real question okay mhm are the sharks and the Surfers are they are they fighting crime yeah or are the Surfers fighting off the Sharks yeah it's it's kind of confusing they almost look like they're on the same team are the sharks in space no there's water there's water you can see the water are they under the water they don't look like they're under uh they're jumping up maybe it's like shark NATO yeah it's before it's time is this a wide body too I think it is it is yes you know you can sink your teeth into big profits oh I love it I love it already good y three three Banks of drop targets for exciting skill shooting the extra ball wedge turns everything 35 scores of 100 points or more for approximately 8 seconds turns on every 35 scores of 100 points okay horses a horseshoe has a horseshoe memory options for both M bonus multipliers and bonus count you can hold them over the Finish is top quality polyurethane paint for extra attraction and durability M polyurethane my favorite kind of urethane and don't forget that self test system with that automatic free game calculation which I got to find out what the hell that means someone needs to tell us what that means big time but let's take a look at so the art on the side okay the side of the cabinet since we're talking about art is like a dude in a wet suit scuba diving looking yeah he's looking for the Thunderball Edition auditions yeah but man that wet suit is tight look at look at how tight it is around his butt yes it is very tight it looks uncomfortably tight it's it's surprising that they were able to do that with like stencils and spraying it on on actually isn't the thing in his mouth like out yes it's like looks like it's hanging behind him but he has another one in his mouth I'm confused so he's got a a backup that's not a bad idea I guess yeah I mean you are underwater yeah so this one has the two flippers on the bottom plus the mini flippers above them yeah and this is a little bit like uh oh uh Space Invaders right where it's got the kind of the two at the top and the two on the bottom M it's kind of cool the the Playfield art is dark it's very blackish he got lots of blacks there's like a weird like I want to say he's like a wizard looking dude in the middle I don't understand what he's doing he's like mad at the shark but it is busy it is a busy Playfield there is Art all over the place this is like this is like if Steve Ritchie had a modern game and had to fill up the middle of the Playfield so they just did a bunch of art hey it's the best art they've had so far my opinion it's cool this fish right here has glasses on oh he's not a wizard he's like a fish with like a face a human face with sideburns I man this is a this this game is a trip dude I remember it's the one I really liked and this is the one you liked of all of them is it because of the art or because of the the gameplay uh gameplay okay so describe a little bit of that would you I can't remember I just I just remember I liked it it was s it was simple to figure out what to do and I just kept doing it over and over it's like it's kind of cool it's it is something else going on here and there's like a a fish lady at the top without without a shirt on to yes cuz we can do that cuz we because she's a fish lady mhm well no because we're not in the US yeah I thought the water was warmer in Australia though I like that there's a drain skirt yes it's not an apron it's a dra or an AR skirt drain skirt Ron approved winner this one yeah if I if I was forced to take a hen game this would be the one this would be the one not the one you would think being the huge Star Wars fan I am you would think a certain game so the last pinball machine made by hanen was the Empire strike back this is the one that everybody's like oh everyone actually knows exists yes yeah nobody knows nobody would know about hanen if it wasn't for this game there's tons of games that were made in Spain or in Italy or in in a lot of those countries and people don't really know about those companies I mean someone can correct me but I believe this is the first Star Wars pinball machine yeah it's not even built in the US it's in Australia it's the best Star Wars film theme The Empire Strikes Back from June of 1980 mhm yeah right when the movie came out too so so this hit at the right time and it is licensed they yeah this is not one of those did not one of those you know where they just did it no they actually licens this yes the Empire STS Back The Empire Strikes Back yeah none of that none of that changing some letters to make it sound F released May of 1980 yeah what a great game oh I'm sorry what a great film so this film was a $30 million budget and it was the followup to the movie that started it all Empire Strikes I'm sorry Star Wars I just like the fact that it only cost 30 million and it made 538 million 5 38 million back then of course that is after the destruction of the Death Star the Imperial Fleet is trying to chase down all of the the the the rebel striking back yes as the name would suggest and this movie is really great for a couple of reasons one of them is George Lucas didn't direct it or do any of the screenplay well it's also the first one I actually saw in the theater when I was a kid man Empire Strikes Back still awesome I think probably the next best one is the Last Jedi which now people have crashed their cars because they're so angry I said that but I think the Last Jedi is a freaking great only three Star Wars movies bro come on that's true y it's because they're no longer for your age group after you see them when you're a child sucks this is all from a secondary source what I'm going to talk about here so the I wasn't able to find any primary sources of David hanken talking on a podcast or any written documentation on any of this so I'm getting this from a secondary source apparently the licensing was arranged through Road Show licensing Corp Limited which was the Australian representative for lucasfilm so it wasn't Lucas film directly it was the Australian arm of Lucas film or the person that they delegated that to so I guess in Australia if you were going to make uh Star Wars toys you probably had to go through this road show licensing Corporation company the the game itself is is pretty the Highlight is the back class is pretty is pretty familiar because it's got Vader so the back glass has the Vader it's got The Empire Strikes back and it has the infinity glass look y I think it's wide body too from Xenon yeah it's a wide body it's got that Xenon look oh I love remember strike back and strike it rich get in on it cuz man they were behind the ball with how Star Wars like exploded into the scene they kind of had their ducks in a row when it came to licensing and toys and stuff with Empire Strikes Back Where was the US on and stuff they failed so miserably with pinball trying to yeah I mean there's doesn't make any sense yeah even the first like well the video game was huge you you might be too you might be too young to remember the vector graphics classic Star Wars but yes well one of the greatest controllers ever and yeah if you can find the sitdown model awesome that's the way to go that's got like the what is it 25 in mod it's got the bigger monitor yeah so see I don't I don't I didn't know about that game when it was younger I knew about that game when I was like looking up arcade machines and I'm like yeah there's a picture somewhere that the one they gave to Lucas they put an extra plaque on the side or something this this doesn't have just a flyer this has a booklet yeah you got to have a booklet it's Star Wars May the forest be with you yes with hanken yeah nice nice they've really they they hammered it with that one they put Vader everywhere which is smart now look at this picture on the left what is who is that all right leaning over this pinball machine leaning over it checking it out oh is that Mark hell that is Mark w a young Mark Dick Hamill before he got old and bitter before they destroyed his character it's it's Luke Skywalker gave his character more depth yeah okay Luke Skywalker the movie of the year is now the pinball of the year and it was such a pinball of the year how many units did it sell uhhuh 350 yikes okay I think Mark Camel was looking at it saying hey this looks like Firepower he's like he's like wait a second isn't this game Space Invaders I was I always thought more of Firepower especially the the whole four pop bumper nest with the the six targets just like Firepower it's got two dead bumpers at the top so a total of like six bumpers two four active two inactive oh is that their first inactive bumpers I think so there's a spinner on the left side there's a spinner on the right on the orbits captive hole on the right very it looks like not a very Target but a a standup Target some drop targets and in the middle it's got those like you said six standup targets like Firepower now when it gets to the lower Playfield and the sort of the middle let me say middle Playfield to lower Playfield cuz it's a wide body so it's really big and it's all the the arch or what did they call it the uh oh yeah we just said the drain cover dra cover yeah the drain cover it's really way down the Playfield but I just like that so this came out 1980 so at the beginning of 1980 they saw Firepower they saw how much money that made so it's like we need to replicate this in our design but let's make it better I don't think this I don't think this has multiball so let's make more let's make more of it because more is always better so let's put four flippers at the bot bottom again like like Space Invaders two small ones and then two regular size ones below that it's got six uh Lanes two outlanes uh I'm sorry one out lane on each side and then two inlanes on each side so six in total the middle the art so it's Star War it's it you look at it and it's um it it ain't no shark it ain't no shark but yeah it's got an add at it's got Vader the Adat just doesn't look the same it just it looks it's a bit I don't know it just looks a you know in the movie they never caught that either Adat was purely to sell the product as a kid and it worked because I still call it that what they actually called at8 no they're just called Imperial Walkers oh that's all they call them in the movie they don't say theats are here there's a Millennium Falcon which did not fight the The Walker at least the size is close yeah yeah it's got the it's got the the little other ships that fly around it they they did everything with the artwork they should have they put lots of Vader CU The Empire Strikes Back so it's a very Empire heavy yeah it's dark it's the darker of the film and I think when you get people a choice between like good guys and bad guy artwork they almost go for bad guys artwork every time I mean they did that Stern did that with their Star Wars remember they had the the one that was more Rebel side and then he had the art package that was more you know Imperial more Vader yeah it was like Premium versus um Pro super cool Vader's on the pop bumpers cuz of course he is on the side cabinet which looks really cool he's he's using the force right there's like waves coming waves coming from it he's like using the force which is invisible wave so cool that'd be cool if it made that sound yeah I don't believe it even has multiball though I don't believe it does but it is it is super cool and you played it and thought it was awesome uh I I I played it and went back to play shark instead so according to pinball memories which is a book the game was first exhibited in November of 1980 at the national Amusement machine operators Convention held in Surfers Paradise Queensland Australia cool what an awesome name Surfers Paradise imagine showing up for that and there's a freaking Empire Strikes Back and it's like what what but why with such an awesome they're getting into the licensing they're getting they're getting it right why was this their final game and why do they cut production so short because of video games killing everything man the pinball compendium which is the 1970 to 1981 version David hanen tells the author that the pinball production stopped because of video games popularity right it was the video game sort of re Evolution because a video game you just put it on location you turn it on people put coins in it it just works and it makes money there's no pop bumpers there's no fuses there's no bo controller is really all you got to worry about yeah the board the ball doesn't get stuck right if the joystick stops working you unscrew it you screw a new one in you plug it in done right like these I just bought a Missile Command you love Missile Command you bought a Missile Command I bought a missile you bought a vector game good luck with that monitor no this is a regular monitor really I thought it was a vector monitor oh yeah you're right what am I thinking of yeah damn you're think you're thinking of uh think of asteroids I thinking asteroids yeah asteroids which I would love in asteroids too those are my two favorite games so I bought a Missile Command that's got like the large track ball yeah the 4 in yeah the 4 in instead of the 3 in oh my so so this thing just sits in my living room it's turn on and it works right there's no there's no screwing around with it yeah actually with a with a CRT monitor if it's been like recapped rebuild it it will in a home use where you hardly ever turn it on it'll Outlast you you'll be dead before that thing doesn't work yeah so this this game was refurbished by the one and the only Todd Tucky this is a Todd Tucky machine so it's been all redone on the inside new the roller ball and all the stuff and the chips and the big blue and all that other crap inside has all been done and it's signed on the back by the whole team I believe this is one of those machines that was sent to mark from Canada and he must not have liked it or wasn't very good at it but now it's mine so who got the next kick at the Kangaroo Ron the next kick Oh you mean the next Australian to try to make a game yeah I mean I mean you could say Wayne yeah and Wayne's last name is oh is it it's it's Gillard I think it's Gillard Gillard yeah I think you're right Wayne Gillard now he he was on the Aussie pinball podcast which is hosted by Dr John Cen who is a staple in uh pinball streaming and podcasting in the Australian scene and you know him best for his great uh trivia that he plays with you and Bruce Nightingale who is the co-host of Slam tilt podcast yeah and he Wayne he's he's known in Australia it's Mr pinball Mr pinball Australia I think he's the main distributor there still to this day I believe since he was 15 Wayne has been into pinball and he started Mr pinball in Oakley South Victoria Australia so the company grew all through the 90s and in the 2000s to become the major distributor distributor I guess some people say in Australia with Allied Leisure and it I mean he started in he purchased 20 of the pinball 2000 machines and Wayne saw an opportunity so he sold 80 of them to boost his standings in the distributor Network because he wanted to get further up the ordering chain in 2005 Wayne secured the rights for pinball manufacturing and replacement parts from who uh that was from in Cunningham yes Illinois pinball Illinois pinball yeah now they originally had the exclusive licensing to sell and remanufacture pinball and those were the parts were like five years they had the non-exclusive rights they still they still retain some rights because they were still making Williams Parts Illinois pinball but yeah that you can make a whole podcast about just the the Williams rights debacle and everything with that it was a big time so we have a whole episode on Illinois pinball where we talked about Jean Cunningham the pinball Enthusiast and collector where he purchased all the leftover Williams stuff and then he tried to distribute all of those parts and ran into trouble and he makes new parts and replacement parts when he kind of wasn't supposed to but he only had the exclusivity for five years y then Williams went out to find other people to license it and do some things with building those parts cuz we talked about how like building a game tooling the parts being able to build the parts like the pop bumpers or solenoids or Plastics or things those all had different licensing requirements yeah but Wayne he got the license fire remember he got the license to the B name yeah so that was a big deal that was the trademark for Bal so he could make Bal games but he couldn't necessarily make the parts for b games he had to have a license for that too and then you could buy the old parts that were left in a warehouse but you couldn't manufacture those like it was all weird and we talk about that in our Capcom episode yeah but I think he still uses on pinside he's like B man or B something he still uses the B he's he still holds the trademark well he he head held the trade I believe I'm sorry the um Wayne holds the uh yes yeah I believe I got my WHO dunnit um translate from him because that was the only one only place I could get a new one was from Australia there so he also so this is interesting so Wayne when when he was like the trademarking of Bal and Williams and and using those trade marks in the gaming industry for example if we go into like Indiana Jones the pinball Adventure is that's a third-party license they could remake the game but they couldn't put Williams on it they could however name the game and put B on it because B was owned by Caesar's entertainment well what does that mean that means that it won't be confused in gaming with Bal because Bal doesn't make gaming anymore it's it's a bit of a mess and I don't know how he manages to deal with it the the modern example is Chicago gaming right Chicago gaming when they build the Williams machines you'll you'll notice they don't have Williams written on the backbox they have CG but if you look at the Bal game attack from Mars it has B written on it it's outrageously confusing so when did he get into thinking about building a game well there was two that I remember one was the Medieval Madness he was going to do those but the Remake because everybody wanted to remake that yeah because that yeah even then everyone wanted Medieval Madness was like the one everyone wanted which Chicago gaming would eventually do that one first I believe because it's the one everyone wanted but he also was looking into doing the crocodile hunter game yes so Wayne like everybody thought building and Manufacturing pinball would be fun H and he looked at building a Steve Irwin Crocodile Hunter game because Steve Irwin was a big deal and the early 2000s the thing was that you have to learn kinetics right and what do I mean by kinetics when you talk about pinball how it shoots how it shoots and the ball movements and things like that but what the best part is the Bal Williams designs that he purchased came with a lot of the drawings or AutoCAD files so he saw all of that stuff already he didn't have to learn by drilling into a a thing he could look at Steve Ritchie's designs and be like oh that's why Steve Ritchie bent the wire for him that way that's pretty slick so who was Steve Irwin is cocoda Hunter he was the Australian zookeeper he was a a conservationist conservationist uh personality a wildlife educator and a huge environmentalist he was the guy that had the the the the really short brown pants and and and uh the the cargo boots and the Australian accent and everybody knows head known he was a huge deal now he grew up around crocodiles as we assume everybody in Australia does and of course other types of reptiles and he educated he was educated by his father Bob Irwin Steve achieved International Fame in the late 1990s from the television series The Crocodile Hunter an internationally broadcast Wildlife documentary series that he co-hosted with his wife Terry and the thing most people don't realize is he didn't own the name crocodile hunter that that he was he was hired by the company that did Crocodile Hunter to be the crocodile hunter they they they could have replaced him with someone else and called them the crocodile hunter in 2006 that's when tragedy struck and Irwin died from an injury that he was was caused by a stingray while he was filming an underwater documentary by the Great Barrier wreath his death became international news and hit a lot of young children quite hard if I recall but we were right along building this crocodile hunter game if you go on ipdb and the link is in the notes you can see some of the proofs for the crocodile hunter so what does it look like uh it it's got a weird backbox design yeah so the back glass is at the top and then it's got like speakers kind of in the so the the translate almost looks like the size of the new modern LCD Sterns where it's a little smaller than the older back glasses it's using a DMD it's got speakers above the DMD and then the DMD is kind of recessed underneath the the those and the B logo cuz he owns the thing but we don't have any Playfield picture cuz I don't think they ever got that far yeah or maybe they did and they it's just not out there because all of the playfields are all kind of blurred out on these promos it's the crocodile hunter Outback Adventure isn't she a little Ripper isn't she a little ripper in Canada we say we're going for a rip do you guys say that uh no going for a rip which basically means I'm going like for drive somewhere going fast Oh I thought meant something else I'm going to have a bunch of drinks I'm going to like I'm going to let her rip I'm going to like go flat out they said that here I would think a bong was involved or something yes yeah full send a lot of people call it full send no no all right but if we zip on over to uh there's not a whole lot of information about that but if you go over to pinside it does have some of the information on um on this game itself so the software by a gentleman named Mark Alexander and Wayne Simmons the concept by Wayne Gallard Gillard oh God I'm sorry Dr John I should have looked up your email how to pronounce that sound by Philip Stevens and music by Philip Steven so you know it's got some of the information as to who did this information but why didn't it actually get made why was it only a concept well Wayne says we spent about 250,000 Australian at the time on research and development product development artwork programming circuit boards cabinet design all sorts of things then unfortunately Steve Irwin died so it was paused for a little while we found out that the best picture show company who owns the rights for crocodile hunter technically hired Steve Irwin to play that so they own the rights of the crocodile hunter and just use Steve Irwin to be the face of that we were stuck we could proceed and build a pinball machine and call it Australia Zoo we could use Steve irns image on the machine but we couldn't use anything to do with the crocodile hunter at all yeah so it was the licensing that sunk this pinball machine there were all these thirdparty in companies involved so there was like Animal Planet there was the Discovery Channel there was this licensing company and apparently that this licensing company went bankrupt after coordinating the license for the crocodile hunter before Steve Irwin had passed it was just a mess well Wayne says we just ended up writing it off we got various cabinets playfields and artwork but the cost of bringing it to life was too much I don't think the licensing is possible anymore yeah then there was also Manufacturing in Australia so in our other previous Australia uh episode where we spoke about uh haggus pinball we talked about a lot of the challenges trying to manufacture in Australia and this is very much the same problem that handen head that was just the cost of material yeah Wayne says it's cheaper in the long run to order parts from overseas when they're made in the US otherwise you got to Tool up for them in Australia and spend money on tooling plus the cost of manufacturing which is too high here I'll give you an example I looked at getting pinball legs made in Australia you needed a 200 ton press to make the legs out of cold roll steel the tool is about 40,000 Australian if you wanted to run the legs you had to run a minimum of 10,000 of them and they're going to be about 10 bucks each I it's Australian they were going to cost about $10 Australian each to Plate them you're up for a heap of money I could buy the legs from America from the original manufacturer for $6.50 already bled it it just isn't economically feasible everybody wants to build something close to home right everybody wants to you know build Australian we want to you know have great manufacturing but here's the thing it's going to be like triple the cost so then the question becomes well is it really worth it at triple the cost no it's just cheaper to buy it from the US and bring it over or you know this happens with buying things from China and bringing it to the US right it's just it's just cheaper to do it elsewhere so you can do it at home but it's going to cost more and you have to accept the fact that you're going to have to pay for inflation and you're going to have to pay for you know all of that other stuff if you just want to have it made locally now the WPC and the WPC 95 systems now those are the the board sets in those in those sort of '90s B Williams games they needed the chips for those boards to be made but the worst bit is if they were going to build these boards if Wayne and his team were going to build these remanufacture these boards a lot of the chips in them were now Obsolete and in fact a lot of these chips were made with hazardous materials that weren't even available back then this is much sooner than today's sort of revolution in uh manufacturing or remanufacturing a lot of these boards that are done overseas right where they're using new materials and new you know chips to do the same thing that those systems did back then they needed the the original ones right nobody was going to make a chip that was as good for a 90 something that was made in 1995 in 2005 nobody's going to be like I want to make a crappy chip they all want to make the new chip but time has passed now where we can sort of you know backdate them so they went a different route in 2006 when it came to games didn't it didn't it or they didn't didn't they so in 2006 Chicago gaming linked up with Wayne to make Medieval Madness now they didn't just manufacture it what happened was Wayne transferred the manufacturing license to planetary pinball so he did just license the license he just transferred it because he realized it was probably better to sell it and make some money than it was to keep it and hold on for maybe build l Hold on hold on you know when I said I correct things that don't seem right because he made medieval madnesses Wayne I I saw yeah but when Chicago gaming made the medieval madnesses locally yeah but that was like 10 years after this exactly so wait a minute so he gave them the license but they sat on it for 10 years before they made anything I I think so does sound right I and I don't remember I do not think that Rick at planetary had these in 2006 that seems too early that maybe it was 16 yeah that that sounds more like it cuz six doesn't sound because I I me and Bruce used to go to his place when it was Bay Area amusements when we would be there for like California extreme extreme yeah that was probably after 2006 well he might have had the license didn't do anything think he had it yet no yeah okay maybe it was 16 if you know shoot us an email silverball Chronicles gmail.com and I'll just freaking put it in the next episode there go so we're just loaded with corrections here it just didn't seem right that's like way too early but Wayne says the main reason we assigned the license to planetary pinball was that I had to make a decision I did not want to leave Australia move to America set up the business in America because all the parts are made there all the tooling is over there all the designers everything did I just want to hold on to the license and just plot along and just make replacement parts I decided that it was in the best interest of pinball for somebody in the US whoever that may be to do more with the license in the US pinball tends to be filled with a lot of hoarders it's it's it's like this collecting hoarding mentality where some people would buy up a license and then just sit on it and be like am I precious but Wayne I think was smart enough to know you know what this is for the community let's just I can't do anything with it here let's get it out which is so great of him they have everything pinball news and I trying to remember it was called planetary pinball then here we go new company acquires rights 2010 that sounds more like it yeah there we go yeah is don't send me your correction email Ron get up thank you pinball news you guys rule basically yeah we can those rights have been sold to a new company planetary pinball Supply Yes Rick he he and he had Bay Bay Area amusements and for a while he ran them both as like planetary pinball was the Williams Parts offshoot and he still kept Bay Area amusements going which was also Parts but he eventually just combin them they're just planetary pinball now but this was in 2010 very good now Mr pinball still very much active in Australia as one of the Distributors he he throw them into your Google machine and look them up Australia and New Zealand Mr pinball is is probably the spot to go down under and that's because coin Giver uh in Australia has not opened yet which is Zack Manny's Australian Army oh I was about to look that up like what I never heard of that before any other last words on hanken and Mr pinball um shark I like shark and they did the first licensed Star Wars pinball no one could take that away from them see the thing is 1980 pinball was still kind of there I mean he had a lot of innovation going on to like 80 going into 81 and then it starts to go downhill so you would think one of the American manufacturers would have been doing that like B of all people You' think B would have done it cuz they were the licensing Kings but and I mean the biggest thing though was that they they kind of got out before things got real bad oh yeah yeah 1980 was yeah their last game and yeah it would have been a mess if they stuck around trying to go through that sort of 81 82 84 you know what I mean I think it's interesting they started with regular size and then went to white body for the last few no you got to follow Atari Atari knew all of it do not follow Atari oh oh oh this again okay uh as always you can send your comments questions Corrections and concerns deceivable Chronicles gmail.com we look forward to all your messages and we read everyone I wonder if I could do this without actually reading at this point so I've done so many times please subscribe to us on your favorite podcast turn on automatic download so you won't miss a single episode remember to leave us a fstar review that way more people can find us oh you're still plugging the patreon thing are you still calling them cronies seriously oh join us on patreon to support the show want to get early access to episodes before everyone else have a strange love for stickers do you know what a Discord is jump on as a $6 a month premium crony want all the other perks in a shirt after 3 months join us at $20 a month as an ear lus crony maybe you just want a shirt I understand I only want a tyer swing on over to civil wall swag.com and pick up a civil wall Chronicles t-shirt It's the hanen episode oh I can say I played every one of them oh I know you played them like recently yes that's why I bumped it up the list they they kind of suck and I talked to a couple Aussies and they said the same thing the games kind of suck games kind of suck he yeah and he said the following go ahead are you ready okay I'm so ready well Michael said dad and uncle Jud sold Dave cop wow I couldn't get past the first sense what it says a hanken and Company wait a minute a hanen a hanen I think oh a that's in the name okay let me try that again