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Episode 301: Anna Neal & Rebecca Hinsdale. Hot Nudge!

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·39m 18s·analyzed·Mar 25, 2021
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TL;DR

Anna Neal wins Stern Invitational; discusses challenge formats, prep strategies, and competitive pinball culture.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Anna Neal and Rebecca Hinsdale from Hot Nudge about their participation in the Stern Heads Up Pinball Invitational (Shoopies). Anna won the championship on Avengers. The conversation covers tournament format, preparation strategies, the challenge-based competition structure, and comparisons to other competitive pinball events like Pin Clash. Both guests emphasize the importance of community and encourage new players to compete.

Key Claims

  • Anna Neal won the Stern Heads Up Pinball Invitational (Shoopies) championship on Avengers

    high confidence · Jeff congratulates Anna immediately at start; confirmed by both guests; described as happening 'the day after the big championship'

  • The Stern Invitational featured eight competitors in a challenge-based format with multiple rounds and machine standardization

    high confidence · Rebecca: 'each of us played three rounds of these challenges' and 'There were seven or nine challenges' total; Jeff notes 'when I saw the list of eight people'

  • All competitors used the same machine, calibrated identically by Jack Danger, with tournament directors monitoring via Zoom

    high confidence · Rebecca: 'we were all at Jack's studio to do the initial filming... the machine was calibrated exactly the same by Jack. And then the tournament directors were all zoomed in'

  • Competitors had approximately two weeks to prepare before filming the challenges

    high confidence · Anna: 'we did it like a couple of weeks before, a week or two before. I think we had about two weeks maybe to practice'

  • Anna's winning final was against Andy with a score of 8.5 million to 8.2 million

    high confidence · Rebecca: 'It was 8.5 million to 8.2 million in the final against Andy' discussing Anna's two-minute challenge performance

  • Pin Clash had live streaming components where competitors streamed their qualifying attempts in real-time

    high confidence · Rebecca: 'for those that don't know people were streaming their competitions so that people could watch live it wasn't videotaped and then sent in it had to be live'

  • Pin Clash featured tiered difficulty with Tier 4 challenges so difficult that top players worldwide struggled to complete them

    high confidence · Jeff: 'you've got 50 million on Turanadan... these incredibly challenging challenges where you're watching the best pinball players in the world struggle to get these things'

  • Rebecca competed in Chicago Women's Expo pinball tournament in October 2019 against Jane VerWise

Notable Quotes

  • “What I think is neat... is it's safe to assume that you all played these machines, obviously in advance, obviously separately because of COVID. And it looked like it was even the same machine, too, which really makes it a fair game for everyone.”

    Jeff Teolis @ early in interview — Identifies key production feature: machine standardization across competitors for fairness

  • “I came out of that challenge after doing all the timed rounds, I was super excited. It had been about a year since I'd competed, and it just felt great to be doing that again.”

    Rebecca Hinsdale @ mid-interview — Illustrates emotional stakes and return to competition after COVID hiatus

  • “But when you have seven challenges and then you have to do those seven challenges again, and then you have to do them again, you know, it's just kind of my biggest element in this particular competition was to just have fun with it.”

    Rebecca Hinsdale @ mid-interview — Describes mental challenge of multiple repetitions without breaks in challenge-based format

  • “I don't think it does it justice to kind of compare it to, you know, live tournaments. It's a completely different beast. And also, I think a really great equalizer for players.”

    Rebecca Hinsdale @ mid-interview — Characterizes challenge format as distinct from traditional tournaments and more egalitarian

  • “Pin clash was, I mean, shout out to IE Pinball and Carl. That was the most amazing production I have ever seen. So much behind the scenes went into that.”

    Anna Neal @ latter half — Praises IE Pinball/Carl D'Angelo's production quality on Pin Clash event

  • “When it's live, you can just kind of feel all these people watching you, you know. It's a weird social thing.”

    Rebecca Hinsdale @ latter half — Illustrates psychological pressure difference between live-streamed and filmed competition formats

  • “Every person who plays pinball gets better by losing. You become a better pinball player by playing players that are better than you.”

Entities

Anna NealpersonRebecca HinsdalepersonJeff TeolispersonHot NudgeorganizationStern Heads Up Pinball Invitational (Shoopies)eventJack DangerpersonEmotopersonDeadfoot Studios

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball community actively encouraging new competitor participation across all skill levels; mentorship and support culture emphasized by experienced players

    high · Rebecca: 'All skill levels are valid... every person who plays pinball gets better by losing... really just immerse yourself in the community... even Keith Elwin loses here and there'

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern Pinball actively supporting competitive pinball through prize giveaways and tournament organization; expanding competitive opportunities beyond traditional high-score formats

    high · Jeff: 'kudos to Stern for giving away a machine... Let's all support the more pinball manufacturers giving away pinball machines'; tournament prize was complete pinball machine

  • ?

    event_signal: Stern Heads Up Pinball Invitational (Shoopies) successfully executed challenge-based tournament format with professional production, machine standardization, and Zoom-monitored fair play protocols

    high · Tournament directors monitored via Zoom; machine calibrated identically; same machine used for all competitors; Emoto handled production coordination; described as 'production, once again, top notch'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive sentiment toward women's competitive success in pinball; recognition that gender is not barrier to elite performance; celebration of Anna Neal's win as meaningful milestone

    high · Jeff: 'a little sidebar... is that I have to think a lot of women are going to be very excited to see the girls kick butt. And it doesn't surprise me... I'm just glad that you don't have to be a dude. Anybody can win on any given day'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.118

0:00
it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teels you can find everything on pinballprofile.com all past episodes subscriptions and more we're also on facebook you can find us on Instagram and Twitter at pinballprofile. Email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. It is a pleasure to be talking to these two women who I've been watching for quite some time on Hot Nudge. You can check them out on Twitch, and you probably just recently saw them at the Stern Invitational. Joining us right now, Anna Neal and Rebecca Hinsdale. Hi, Anna. How are you doing, Rebecca? Hi. How's it going? It's good to talk to both of you. I enjoyed watching you. This is being recorded the day after the big championship. But, Anna, congratulations on winning the Avengers. So exciting. Amazing. I can't believe it. What I loved about this format, from what we're seeing watching this, first of all, kudos to Stern for giving away a machine. Yes, please. Thank you so much. Let's all support the more pinball manufacturers giving away pinball machines, because I think it's great. Production, once again, top notch. I'm a huge fan of Emoto and everything she does. And you can see the evolution from the first Stern Invitational to this one and just the production quality really well put together. But what I think is neat, and again, I have no idea, so I'm talking to you for the first time about this, is it's safe to assume that you all played these machines, obviously in advance, obviously separately because of COVID. And it looked like it was even the same machine, too, which really makes it a fair game for everyone. Yeah, we were able to use the same machine. I think we were all at Jack's studio to do the initial filming of the challenges. So it was really great to put us all on an even playing field and time us all the same. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was a very cool experience. So it was sort of like an appointment where we would go in. You know, the machine was calibrated exactly the same by Jack. And then the tournament directors were all zoomed in and set up next to the machine. So we could look right at the tournament directors there kind of counting us down and making sure that we understood the rules and all of those things. Really cool and interesting way to kind of combat sort of the safety as well. You know, we didn't have to be in the same room together. That also allowed us to be able to record unmasked since we didn't have to be standing next to the director or any of that. And then, of course, shout out to Deadfoot Studios for making that machine available to us, as well as the quality is definitely chalked up to what he does on the daily in his pinball streams as well. So he was able to set up a really great experience. Came in terrified, played, then you're done. And then you just have absolutely no idea. Was that good? I don't know. I mean, I know that when I came out of that challenge after doing all the timed rounds, I was super excited. It had been about a year since I'd competed, and it just felt great to be doing that again. And it showed in how you performed. And it showed in the end, I guess, yeah. I think tournaments in general are that way, where sometimes you win or you lose, and then you have little moments where you're like, oh, I hit this one thing, or I did this. But these challenges are so short that it's just really hard to kind of know. You leave the room and then you're like, okay, I hope that was good. I don't remember my times. I don't remember how good or bad that was. It just kind of is what it is. Rewatching it, I'm like, I can kind of see my nerves affecting my play here, but that's part of the tournament experience. It's kind of a real way to see the excitement of a tournament, the excitement of the competition can kind of affect your finger skills, so to speak. What I liked about it, and there were many things, was that it reminded me of a poker competition, the way they film that. So the game actually happens. If you compare it to pinball, you play all the different challenges. And I assume you had to play several, a minimum of nine, because if you were to advance, there would be three rounds. And I know the final was only one, but let's just say you played several different challenges, not knowing who you're going to play against, not knowing the results, not knowing if it was good or bad to advance. But you play these, they're recorded. They can that. So it's like in poker, the game happens and then the commentators come in afterwards and then talk about it, even though they know the results. But it really, from a production standpoint, sounds a lot better. So what they did with you and the other competitors was you film this. You didn't know who you were playing against. And then they bring you back to do a reaction as you're watching it, quote unquote, live to see whether or not you beat your competitor. I think that was brilliant. Yeah, it was super cool. It was very fun. And there was there was actually quite a few challenges. I think I believe there were was there nine challenges, seven or nine. I'd have to remember. But there were some challenges that you guys didn't get to see. So one of them was like to start Ironman multiball was one of the challenges. And so we had to play all of them and then we had to play as if we went to the finals. So each of us played three rounds of these challenges, basically like, OK, fingers crossed that this play that I just did, you know, is in the finals. And, you know, that also kind of adds an extra element because, you know, the first round, you know, you're playing and I can only speak for myself because I obviously wasn't there when Anna recorded hers. But, you know, the first round and maybe I did really good on getting Thor multiball, but I didn't do so well at starting the Hawkeye challenge. And then in the second round, I did really good on the gym, but then I didn't do so well on Black Panther. And then you're just kind of fingers crossed. Please don't pick Thor round one. They have that challenge generator. You have no idea what they're going to pick for, you know, that's completely randomized in terms of what they're going to pick. And you just kind of hope and pray, please don't pick that one horrible Ironman that I did that I could barely do. You know, I mean, that's just kind of the nature of this particular challenge. And, you know, I don't think it does it justice to kind of compare it to, you know, live tournaments. It's a completely different beast. And also, I think a really great equalizer for players. I mean, obviously, really good players are going to kind of, you know, the sediment will sift and the players will kind of rise up to the top. But it's still, you know, it's not how high of a score you can get. Rebecca, when I saw the list of eight people, any one of those eight could have won easily. And you saw that in the play. Yeah. And actually, Tim kind of mentioned something in the commentary where he's like, Jason's a seasoned player. We're talking about Jason Werdrick. He's been playing for 30 years of competitive pinball, you know, and having that list of names going, oh, my God, I have to I might have to play against Jason. I know it's going to be interesting, but Tim pointed out in the commentary that he is from a school of thought of trapping and being calm and controlled play. And this kind of challenge is about speed. It's about getting it done fast. And you'll notice that those that could kind of play on the fly and could keep things moving might have a better chance of moving forward than someone that takes too much time. Anna, tell me about this. How much time was it from the time you knew you were going to be participating in this to actually filming? In other words, how much practice time did you get? Not enough, in my opinion.

high confidence · Jeff: 'I remember watching you beat Jane VerWise at the Chicago Women's Expo the last time we had that, in October of 19'

Rebecca Hinsdale @ closing segment — Community-focused advice for new competitors

  • “Anybody on any given day can win a pinball match against anyone. Nobody is perfect.”

    Jeff Teolis @ closing segment — Commentary on competitive unpredictability in pinball

    • organization
    Pin Clashevent
    IE Pinballorganization
    Carl D'Angeloperson
    Jane VerWiseperson
    Chicago Women's Expoevent
    Avengers (pinball machine)game
    Jurassic Park Escape Nublargame
    Keith Elwinperson
    Ray Dayperson
    Escherperson
    Andyperson
    Bells and Chimesorganization

    community_signal: Pin Clash qualifying community demonstrated strong peer support and knowledge-sharing rather than competitive secrecy; participants helping each other with strategies and times

    high · Rebecca: 'There was no this feeling of like I don't want to tell you my secrets... Ray Day was in there telling people strategies... People were cheering each other on for their times'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pin Clash event by IE Pinball/Carl D'Angelo established high-production-value live-streamed challenge competition with tiered difficulty and community participation; significant behind-the-scenes coordination

    high · Anna: 'That was the most amazing production I have ever seen'; live streaming format; Discord coordination; multiple-week qualifying period; Tier 4 challenges defeated top world players

  • $

    market_signal: Challenge-based pinball competition formats are lower barrier to entry than Pin Clash tiered system; Stern Invitational designed to be more accessible while still competitive

    high · Jeff: 'Shup is all of the challenges are very makeable... makes it so that people coming off the street can say, oh, pinball, I know about that... makes it easier to explain... to people who aren't as familiar with different pinball lingo'

  • ?

    community_signal: Rebecca Hinsdale established as both Stern Pinball staff member and Hot Nudge co-host; blending commercial manufacturer role with independent content creation

    high · Identified as Stern Pinball staff; also co-hosts Hot Nudge independent streaming show; maintains competitive player status

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing enthusiasm in competitive pinball community for alternative tournament formats beyond traditional bracket/high-score play; challenge-based formats attracting diverse skill levels

    high · Jeff: 'I say the more the merrier. I say there is a world where pin clash... both things like pin clash and the Stern Heads Up Challenge exist because it just widens the playing field of how many people can compete'

    • 7:25
    We didn't have the game. Luckily, we figured out who the other participants were. I think it was all in the email. So at least us Bells got together and found a machine somewhere to practice on. And we're able to time each other and give each other tips. for, I don't know, I think we did it like a couple of weeks before, a week or two before. I think we had about two weeks maybe to practice. It was pretty short. And also it was kind of on the fly because, you know, we sort of had to be prepared at any moment we could be called in to play, you know, so we were told and then we had about two weeks and then it was time to film. Anna and I throughout COVID have been sort of a pod together. We have constant conversations about staying safe. And then, of course, Rachel is my sister. So we were lucky in that we were able to sort of play together and kind of help each other figure out how to navigate, you know, and there was lots of discussions on, you know, what are the best strategies to get these fast, as fast as possible. And there was a lot of time spent on that final two minute round, you know, where we how could we get the most amount of points in these two minutes? Luckily, that practice paid off with Anna and her thing went. In practice, I did a lot different things in that two-minute drill that ended up happening in the challenge.
    8:45
    Can you explain what you mean? Like, what were some of the different strategies for two minutes? Because you got that big two million point that really wound up being the difference. It was 8.5 million to 8.2 million in the final against Andy. Yeah. So there's a lot of luck involved with that because during the practice rounds, we were going for strategies. We were going for Thor multiball. Which takes five shots. In two minutes, you might take a minute just to get those five shots. Exactly. So we did some timing with that to see how long that would give us to play out a good multiball. But the machine that we ended up doing the challenge on, the Thor multiball was harder to get than what we were practicing on. So that kind of threw me for a loop. And then I was just kind of like, I just, I'm going to find all the easy points I can. And I knew about the skill shots and I knew about mysteries, you know, and then I, you know, I was like, once I did that, I was like, I guess I just opened the strange door. Yeah. You know, one of the strategy elements that we were talking about, especially in our practice was to try and not start a gem mainly because the amount of time on that premium that it takes for that gem ball to go through that portal are precious seconds And you saw it in Andy where he didn't choose the gem right away. And there's just, you know, seconds shaving away as you wait for that ball. It feels like forever when you're in a timed situation. And now, you know, I mean, and that's a major difference between playing the premium and playing the pro. you may have a completely different strategy with the pro because you can start the gem kind of through a combo. When you two both played each other in the second round, and I think the first challenge was the Dr. Strange one. Yeah. And I saw Anna's playfield with the spinner kind of on the side. And I looked at yours, Rebecca, it was either at the very top or the very bottom. And just from hitting that from one of the bottom flippers, if you hit it when it's at the very top or the very bottom, it's not going to spin. I was like, oh, poor Rebecca, the playfield's not set up for you. Didn't matter. You gave it a nudge, moved it, and you won that round. And as you saw, and everyone saw, it was such a close finish there by the time we got to game three. But you pulled out that game one with the spinner in a tough spot, which really makes a difference in a heads-up challenge. Yeah, absolutely. And there was no setting up the machine. One of the things that was allowed was that you could line up your plunge strength before the timer went off. So you could spend some time kind of pulling the plunger and kind of feeling out where you want the plunge. But that was it. There was no, okay, let me get the spinner in the right spot before we start this mode. No, it's just kind of go time. So, you know, when you have the gem quest and you look up and you see where the spinner is and you're like, oh no. And I think internally in my head, I was, okay, I got to get it to the Stark Tower so that I can slam on it with that upper flipper to try and get it into a better position. Because you're absolutely right. if that spinner is in a spot that you can hit it all day long and it won't do anything unless you can really get it into a position that'll kind of really work. And then, of course, you have the dreaded stopping of the spin when it kind of goes up through the pop. Which is what I did, yes. I have to admit, you both had good game faces going. You both looked very confident going into it, both very cool. I mean, and I've watched you play quite a bit. In fact, I remember watching you beat Jane VerWise at the Chicago Women's Expo the last time we had that, in October of 19. I mean, there were 42 of you. I know, Rebecca, you played in it as well. I think Rachel did as well. I don't know where this compares. To me, winning that Chicago Expo, that was a big women's tournament. That had to be a highlight. I guess this would top that. I mean, they're both great.
    12:23
    Yeah, I mean, the prize of this one, of course, tops everything. But it still felt great to, you know, be in that Expo tournament and then battling Jane in the end. with and we all had we both had great games in that final round me and jane so it was a really fun battle it's completely different you know it's going for a high score and going for these challenges it's just it feels completely different when you're competing i think well what was it like pressure wise because again you're playing in the unknown in the stern invitational you're just trying to do the best you possibly can having no idea what the challenge is going to be what the competitor is going to be, who the competitor is going to be. Whereas at Chicago Expo and many of the other tournaments you've been in, you've got the pressure of seeing the other score, the people around, the crowd, the size of the field. I'd have to imagine the pressure there is actually higher live, even though the prize is bigger here with the Stern Invitational. Yeah, I'd say probably. What was great, though, about the Expo is that Jane and I are good friends. So it was we play against each other all the time. And so that pressure that relieved some of my pressure anyway because it just felt like we were hanging out well and that i think that you would have been just as excited to see jane win as you yeah you know that changes things as well i think i actually have a nice picture somewhere on my phone of you and jane giving each other a big hug after the end of the finals or i've seen it online somewhere so you're right you can't really tell who won because you guys are just such good friends yeah and it's great I love it. I mean, and that was a women's tournament, and this is like a tournament with all sorts of people. It's, you know, they're different beasts. I feel great about both of them. It's absolutely amazing that I could pull either one off, really. But again, in both cases, game faces. And Rebecca, maybe the all-time greatest game face, your first challenge is the Hulk, and you're in full green, hair and all. There was no way you were going to lose that. I mean, there was a way. There's definitely a way I could lose.
    14:28
    My biggest challenge was not letting myself get in the way. You know, there's a lot of self-doubt if you have a bad go of it. You know, you have one challenge and I can say one or two of the challenges that I did. I didn't finish within the time frame. I didn't actually get the challenge. And that was having to. OK, next challenge. It's time to reset your brain and do well on this next one. I think was one of the largest challenges with this because there was no, you know, break. It wasn't like you get to play a different game and get to play a different competitor. Maybe things will be better this time. There's that kind of internal pressure that you have when you're playing a game against other competitors and having to, okay, I had a bad ball. But when you have seven challenges and then you have to do those seven challenges again, and then you have to do them again, you know, it's just kind of my biggest element in this particular competition was to just have fun with it. It's supposed to be fun, and it's a good time. And if I don't do the best that I know I can do, to not be too hard on yourself, because you're going to have to do it again in just a few minutes. So I think that was kind of what was sort of fascinating about this kind of tournament format. But I did not dye my hair specifically for the whole challenge, but it was just a lovely coincidence that that worked out. I'll give you that, because if you put on a helmet with horns and the next challenge was Thor, I'm like, okay, something's up here. I do like to cosplay pinball quite often.
    15:54
    But what you said is very important for everyone listening that may or may not compete or go to events. And you know what? In 2021, we're going to get there. Vaccines are rolling out. We're going to get there. It might be late summer, might be the fall, definitely by the wintertime, but we're going to get back to this competition live pinball this year. And I really encourage everybody that enjoys pinball to try these competitions because they are, just like you said, a lot of fun. You see that in the competitions. You see that on the streams. You definitely see that on Hot Nudge. And I know that's not competitions, but it is still all pinball and it's connecting with people. And we talked about you two both being at the Chicago Expo Women's Tournament. I know, Anna, I saw you at Indisc, in fact, the last time that happened in 2020. And Rebecca, I see that you've been all over. I see that you've even been to pinball at the zoo in Kalamazoo back in 2018. And that's going to be happening this September in Kalamazoo. So who knows? What would you say to people that have never competed in pinball competitions before, but really enjoy playing pinball? Well, as they say, it's more fun to compete. If you like competing at all, if you have a sister or brother that you just loved playing games with, You're going to love going to these competitions, meeting all these people like-minded, and learning a new fun game. It's great. I second that motion that Anna says, but also don't be too hard on yourself. We all have to start somewhere. All skill levels are valid, and it can be really easy to compare yourself to other players. And every person who plays pinball gets better by losing. You become a better pinball player by playing players that are better than you. You learn from their skills. Ultimately, you know, don't be too hard on yourself. Have a good time and really just immerse yourself in the community. because the pinball community is really strong. There's a lot of really great, amazing, lifelong friends that I've met in the pinball community. And you're your own worst enemy when it comes to competitions. If you have a bad round and you're feeling down on yourself, it's really hard to recover if you don't kind of cut yourself some slack. You know, I mean, even Keith Elwin loses here and there. Not very often, but he does. It does happen. I believe he was knocked out on the first round of the first show. So it does happen for the best players in the world. So before we get back to that live action play, the competitions, the leagues, and things starting to open up, and fingers crossed it happens sooner than later, we have things like the Stern Invitational. We have things like Carl D'Angelo's pin clash, which I know you both participated in. That was an extremely hard challenge with the escape nublar on Jurassic Park. And because there were so many participants, it had to be kind of a top 24. and there were some people that got in and I know you just missed getting in, but you've played in both and I know you enjoyed your pin clash experience. And if there should be another one, this is something that I would encourage people to give a try. It's easier, obviously, for the two of you that do hot nudge and have the streaming capabilities, but this type of competition, this heads up challenge, it's exciting. And I'm just wondering how you compare the two. Pin clash was, I mean, shout out to IE Pinball and Carl. That was the most amazing production I have ever seen. So much behind the scenes went into that. What you saw on Twitch is just the tip of the iceberg of what went in to make that happen. And, you know, it was somewhat of a different beast. There was a lot more preparation for that. You know, we were qualifying for weeks to try and get in there. And there was lots of people. But there was also behind the scenes there was Discord chats with people about how to set up their gear we were all helping each other It like everybody within the qualifying wanted you to qualify There was no there wasn this feeling of like I don't want to tell you my secrets because I don't want you to get in. It was, Ray Day was in there telling people, you know, strategies. Escher was in there telling people strategies. People were cheering each other on for their times and like, oh my gosh, you got that time. That's great. You just have a few more seconds to go. And I really think that that aspect was crucial in sort of kind of, you know, we didn't quite get into the pin clash because it was such a tough competition, but I would do it again. Absolutely. I would do it again over and over again. Despite watching those streams when I was playing that Nublar, I'm pretty sure those were the ragiest streams I just ever had. But we experimented a lot. We had one night where we were listening to music and we're like, sorry, chat, we're not talking, we're concentrating. so i mean it was quite the the mental gymnastics to kind of go through that so for those that don't know people were streaming their competitions so that people could watch live it wasn't videotaped and then sent in it had to be live it had to be on a stream so yeah there's the chat back and forth and you like you said for weeks we're trying to get your best time so in that aspect too because it is live i have to imagine there was a bit of pressure there absolutely When it's live, you can just kind of feel all these people watching you, you know. It's a weird social thing. In the Shoopy, for example, you know, there was four people watching me at that time. And that's what I was thinking about. I wasn't thinking about the 10,000 people on Twitch later, luckily. That wasn't crossing my mind. But, yeah, and Pin Clash is, like, it was so hard. The challenges were so hard. There were some of these challenges on Jurassic Park that were, Some of the top players in the world couldn't even do them in the end. So it's a completely different beast. It's kind of like, I don't know, a marathon and a sprint. And just to qualify, you actually knew the times you had to beat. True, yes. That adds more pressure. Yep, it's harder. Since we're talking about the Shup and we're talking about Pin Clash and we're kind of talking about the two, with Pin Clash, some of the challenges towards the end, so if you're not familiar, it was divided into tiers. So like the first round, you're tier one and the challenges were relatively simple, finishing a paddock, you know, kind of getting certain milestones that I think most pinball enthusiasts would be able to get relatively easy. Now, could they get it fast? I don't know, but they could get there. But then towards the end, you've got these tier four challenges. You've got 50 million on Turanadan. Like, I don't think I've ever gotten to that. You know, I've never focused on getting to there. But these incredibly challenging challenges where, you know, you're watching the best pinball players in the world struggle to get these things. What is different with the Shup is all of the challenges are very makeable. Everybody knows how to start a gem quest. So it kind of the speed factor really kind of adds that extra element of challenge. That makes the Shup more accessible to people who aren't as crazy into pinball as we are, you know, with the easier challenges. is, I mean, not just easier, but easier to explain to people who aren't as familiar with the different pinball lingo. It makes it so that people coming off the street can say, oh, pinball, I know about that. Is it ping pong? No, it's not. I think it gets more people involved and more people interested in the game. I love the explanations of any heads up challenge, whether we pin clash, whether it be the shoopy, as you call it, what does that stand for? Stern heads up pinball invitational? That's right. Yes. Shoopy. Okay. In both of these cases, and even the live heads up challenge that we've seen right after the Stern Pro Circuit Finals that happens in Chicago, usually happens in March, I love that they explain the challenges for anybody, especially if you don't know the machine, especially if you don't know the rules. They basically say, and they'll give the example of Avengers, here's what you need to do for Thor multiball. Hit that captive ball four times, and then the fifth time, that will start multiball. Okay. That's pretty clear. It makes it easy for everyone. It's executing it that's the difficult part. Right, exactly. And especially when you're comparing the two, when you're comparing the heads up challenge to, say, the pin clash, Anna and I going into the pin clash, we basically wanted to see as far as we could get. Okay, let's just see how far we can get. You know, internally, I'm thinking to myself, these tier four challenges, you know, towards the end of pin clash, the challenges were so, so complex, you know, wouldn't be as simple as just saying hit the captive ball four times. No, it's hitting this ramp three times and then building it up and it's a multiplying thing that you have to cash and all of these moving parts that make pinball so fascinating you know as the more the games get more complex the geekier we get about how to play them you know when you compare the two i knew realistically that there was pretty much my skill level would probably peter out at about tier three but i still wanted to see how far i could get but you never know Rebecca. You never know. That's what's so great about pinball is you really do never know. You can really just be in the zone and really go further. And that's one of the things that's super exciting to me. So when we're talking about competitions, I say the more the merrier. I say there is a world where pin clash. I'm so glad that both things like pin clash and the Stern Heads Up Challenge exist because it just widens the playing field of how many people can compete and how many people can experience what it's like. And you can see how much better you are getting at pinball the more you compete and the higher you see your numbers go. And for those of you that are listening that don't know that there's a ranking system for pinball players, you wouldn't be surprised, but you can have fun with seeing how your ranking raises over the years and you can see how much better of a player you're becoming. And I think that's really cool. I've been saying this for years. Anybody on any given day can win a pinball match against anyone. Nobody is perfect. You talked about Keith Elwin losing sometimes. It happens to the best players ever. Well, a little sidebar of the fact that we just saw Anna win this Shoopy, the Stern Heads Up Pinball Invitational, is that I have to think a lot of women are going to be very excited to see the girls kick butt. And it doesn't surprise me. I'm just glad that you don't have to be a seasoned veteran. You don't have to be a dude. Anybody can win on any given day. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Join us, everyone. But also, she's a really good, amazing killer player.
    26:12
    Very well-deserved. It's really well-deserved. And we can catch you continually on Hot Nudge on Twitch. It is so much fun. I watch for the cats, I'm going to be honest.
    26:27
    They are the real stars of the show. They are the stars, indeed. In fact, the star here, little man, is actually sitting right next to me. He wants to be on the podcast as well, but I don't think what he has to say will be very interesting.
    26:40
    Olive is here too, just so you know. What's your cat's name, Anna? Olive. Olive, okay, perfect. Well, in January, I got a cat after my last cat had passed away after 16 wonderful years. It's okay. I mean, a great life, and that's a good life for a cat. But Zeppelin passed away, so we have a dog named Jagger, so there's a bit of a rock theme. So when we got our new adopted cat and it was a kitten, a feral cat that they caught and gave it shots and kept it there for a few months. And so now he's just turned eight months. So Freddie is enjoying the pinball machines as well. Freddie Mercury. Yeah. You know, and those street cats are kind of the best kind of cats, too. All of the cats that I've ever owned have been sort of rescues that way. I always I always tell people when they want a cat. I was just like, if you want a cat, a cat will show up. You know, whether it is you go to a shelter and you you just meet a cat that you can feel that this cat should be with me. There's always some sort of weird thing that happens when the cats show up. You know, my cat showed up. He was also a street cat and showed up at my friend's back porch one winter. And it was about a couple of days before it was supposed to get really cold. You know, I live in Chicago and, you know, negative numbers. And she's like, he won't leave. And he really just doesn't want to be out there anymore. And so all signs, you know, he wasn't chipped. He had a flea problem. There were all the signs saying that he was definitely a street cat. Now he is super spoiled.
    28:09
    Some people say, are you a cat person or a dog person? I love them both equally. But I always am amazed when people say, ah, forget it, cats. No, I've always been a dog person. That means you've never had a cat because cats are so bloody friendly. This guy has easily become one of my best buddies, and he's just attached to me all the time. It's such good companionship. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, just like any other animal, cats are subject to their environment. If they're not treated well or if they're abused, then they're going to be defensive and just like a dog. There's a lot of movement towards trying to destigmatize like a pit bull because it's like, hey, pit bulls are they're just dogs. That's a product of their owner. Right. Yeah. You can train a dog to be mean, you know, and that's kind of the you can't really train a cat. I mean, I guess you can, but they're sort of their own animals. But I've always had cats growing up, but I agree with you, Jeff. I'm not a cat or a dog person. I'm an animal. Me neither. I love all animals. And, you know, whatever animal shows up, I think for me, cats work for my lifestyle because I don't have to walk them because I, you know, I'm lazy.
    29:16
    But if I got, you know, if a dog showed up tomorrow, Who am I to say I can't take one in? And I know lots of people that have both cats and dogs. So to bring it back into pinball you know even a bad pinball machine is still a pinball machine So all games have their qualities that make them great So you just have to find them You know if you've got a cat, you know, because my partner has a cat. Oh, is there a cat? That's Olive. Well, that's Olive. Okay. My partner has a cat who is not really a lap cat. She's not really one that likes to be touched much. She's very sensitive. But I've found a way to work with what is comfortable for her. So, you know, we'll sit next to each other on the couch and she'll purr. She doesn't want me to touch her, but she'll purr and she likes that I'm there and she likes that I'm, you know, hanging out. So it's, you know, like a pinball machine. You don't walk up to an EM and expect to get a five ball multi ball. And if that's what you're looking for, that's just really the game for you. But there's other qualities to an EM that make it still worthwhile and still fun. Right. You know, also like pinball. On this episode, we compare pinball machines to cats. Well, I'll give you another comparison. Like pinball and cats, you know, I find the cats are much more friendly when you're feeding them. And the same could be said about me whenever I go to a pinball tournament and I find good food. Coming to Chicago, the Midwest, oh, are you kidding? The deep dish pizza, there's just so much there. The Garrett's popcorn, oh. So good. So, so good. Not to talk places in California that have really great weather, that also have really great pinball, But I do think that there's something to be said about, you know, the fact that we get such cold winters makes our indoor gaming game real strong. We can have a really good time inside. And I think pinball is perfect because there's no season for pinball. It's all pinball season all the time. And you see that on Hot Nudge, too, because there's just so much fun that you have on there. And I've got to say, like the overlays. I know, Rebecca, you do a big part of that. You talked about Creature from the Black Lagoon. And I mean, that is one of the coolest ones you've ever done. And I always am excited to see what you'll do next. Oh, well, thank you so much. I like to be creative. And this is just kind of another area of a creative outlet. And it's fun to kind of play with the format. You've got your elements of the stream that have to be there. So, you know, Anna and I stream is somewhat unique in that there's two of us. So, you know, you have to have focus on the player. But we also want to have a camera to focus on us because we started in COVID. So in the beginning, you know, we were keeping our distance. We were staying masked. We were doing all sorts of things. So we had to have separate cameras for each of us to be able to play together. And so you've got these elements that have to be included. And then playing around with, you know, what's a new way to think about a machine? We recently did Led Zeppelin, which is great. And of course, my first thought of Led Zeppelin is that famous Wayne's World scene where he picks up the guitar and he starts playing and the guy stops him and says, no, and points to a sign and says, no stairway to heaven. Denied. Exactly. And, you know, of course, it's cheeky fun. There is no stairway to heaven in the Led Zeppelin pinball machine. So I thought it would be cheeky fun to kind of pull that element of that millennial 90s movie. Hopefully there's not too many young people that don't know what I'm even talking about. You know, so I kind of incorporated that into the layout because it's just fun. And it's learning new things. It's really enjoyable for me as well. And as we've gone through, you know, I look at some of the older overlays from our first games, and I tend to refresh them as we go because I've learned new things. And we've gotten new gear. We're upgrading our systems so that we look better and sound better. It's really good, Rebecca. You've done really well. I remember watching the kind of Battle of the Bells at the Chicago Virtual Expo and watched a lot of that. That was very entertaining. But I think the very first time I ever watched Hot Nudge, and it made me so happy because I do it too, and I don't give a care to anyone around me watching me do this. And it was what Anna was doing. Anna, you had headphones on, and I don't know what you were listening to, but you were rocking out, you were dancing, and I was just like, I love that braveness. Yeah, I like to jam while I play, you know. It's important to have some good music on while you're doing your flips. I don't always wear headphones, but when I do, and my friends know this, as much as I love Led Zeppelin and stuff, you can guarantee, you can grab my headphones, and you can guarantee if I'm playing pinball and I have headphones on, it's disco. Yes. Because it gets you grooving. It makes you happy. And I think of crappy balls I have or, oh, I should have done this, should have done that. You can't be upset listening to disco. It just makes you want to tap your feet. You know what? I agree completely. 100% disco. And usually there's some soul kind of thrown in there. Oh, for sure.
    34:01
    For sure. Dance grooves, you know, songs that make you happy, songs that rev you up, you know. And that is actually one of my tips, especially if you are playing Rest in Power of Pinnberg. Unfortunately, that's no longer available. But when when a show like Pinberg shows up, because we know community wants it, there will be shows. One of the things to help reset my brain sometimes is to listen to a song that makes me happy. Like, OK, maybe that round wasn't so great. Maybe that ball wasn't so great. And I'm kind of down in the dumps. Put on a song that makes you happy and just let yourself be a human and let yourself make mistakes and say, OK, that was one ball. Yeah. To the next one. And I'm listening to a good groove. How could I be upset when I'm listening to this great song? You know, it works every time. Was there any consideration for either of you to put on headphones during the shoopy?
    34:49
    Not as of the time constraints. You know, they they holler out at like 30 seconds when you're, you know, correct me if I'm wrong. And I believe there is a time limit for each of those challenges. I think it was two minutes. Two minutes. Yes. And as I mentioned, you didn't get to see all the challenges that we did. And there were definitely challenges that were more challenging than others. We got to see Anna's great completion of Hawkeye by doing that sneaky Hawkeye combo. I didn't even know that was possible until that day. Exactly. And you can tell by your real reaction of just like, wait, did I do it? Oh, I did it. Yes. But that was definitely one that, you know, you might need up until the full two minutes. So with the tournament directors being there, I do think music listening is more when you're in your own time frame. You know, you have a ball. Nothing else matters. It's just you. You get to play as long as you can keep it alive. I used to have this when I first started playing pinball. I used to get this this sort of anxiety when I was playing because I thought to myself, the longer I have the ball live, the closer I am to getting a drain, which is so silly. I think about it now and it's so silly. Like, oh, I'm just, oh, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm still, I can't believe this ball is still live. It's going to drain any minute. And, you know, I've had to sort of rethink that. Like, no, the opportunity to drain is always there. And you got to savor the moment of the ball as you can play and to just really have fun with it. A lot of deep life metaphors, too, in all of what you just said. Well, headphones or not, You're soon going to be grooving to a new Avengers pinball machine, Anna. Take care. And I'm sure we'll see you and Rebecca on Hot Nudge doing that. It was a lot of fun to watch. I look forward to seeing you both again sometime soon, and that will happen in 2021, I'm sure of it. But in the meantime, we will catch you on Hot Nudge. When are you streaming so people can join us? We stream on Thursday nights and Sundays around happy hour time, which is 5 p.m. Central. So we call Thursdays as Hot Nudge Nights. That's usually around 9 p.m. Central Time. And then, of course, Hot Nudge Sunday at 6-ish Central Time. Yeah, I said 5, but really it's 6. We have tons of notifications on our Discord. You can pop on our Discord and chat with us at any time. We do throw in extra streams here and there if the mood strikes us, but those are our regular times that we stream. And we try and switch up the games. Yeah, you are switching up the games, because I know Creature might be going soon, and you've got a new one coming in. Yes, absolutely. So Gavin's Games, he does game rentals here in Chicago. Great local operator. With COVID, you know, a lot of people are talking about a lot of small businesses being hit. And Gavin is a small business. He's a game operator that was no longer able to put his games into locations. And he rolled with the punches on COVID. And so we've had a really great opportunity to play a lot of really great games. We've rented Deadpool. We've rented the Data East Guns and Roses. We have Creature from the Black Lagoon right now. And I'm, you know, as we speak, I believe Gavin is on his way to deliver a Game of Thrones for us to play for this month. So really exciting. And also really what's keeping me sane in this and all of this is be able to still play new games. And of course, Anna and I still also own games. So we'll switch it up with some of the games that we have in our stable. And so you'll be seeing a lot more of Avengers Infinity Quest when that rolls off the production line and into Anna's household. And it's just really fun. We you know, and hopefully as people get vaccinated, as things get safer, we have a really great community here in Chicago. A lot of pinball owners and a lot of people that want to stream with us and hang out and have a good time. And that's really what it's all about. So hopefully you'll be seeing even more games, some rarer games that people own in their homes that you just don't get to see on stream very often. And we like to keep it fresh. We'll do electromechanical, early solid states, stern games. We want all the games. All the games.
    38:47
    We will catch you on Hot Nudge. Anna, Rebecca, thank you very much, and congratulations once again, Anna. Thank you so much, Jeff. Super fun. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com, all your subscriptions, past episodes, and more. We're on Facebook. You can check us out on Twitter and Instagram at pinballprofile and e-mails pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teoles.