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Wizards & Warriors Episode 9 - Game. Set. Zahler.

Wizards & Warriors·podcast_episode·2h 51m·analyzed·Jul 20, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

IFPA 21 World Champion Jason Zoller shares his path to competitive pinball dominance.

Summary

Jason Zoller, the reigning IFPA 21 World Champion, discusses his competitive pinball journey, preparation methods, and championship victory in Austria. The interview covers his early introduction to pinball at age 2.5, mentorship from his father, tournament progression, game-specific strategies, mental game development, and advice for aspiring competitive players.

Key Claims

  • Jason Zoller is the reigning IFPA 21 World Champion

    high confidence · Hosts introduce him as 'our reigning world champion' at the start of the episode

  • Zoller started playing pinball at age 2.5 with The Addams Family as his first game

    high confidence · Jason directly states 'I started playing when I was, like, two and a half years old. First game I ever played was The Addams Family'

  • Zoller's early tournament games included Star Trek Next Generation, Twilight Zone, and Lord of the Rings

    high confidence · Jason: 'the first three games we had were Star Trek Next Generation, and Twilight Zone, and then Lord of the Rings'

  • Zoller has won four new-in-box pinball machines in the past year (Food Pro, Metallica Remastered, Jaws Premium, and one more)

    high confidence · Jason: 'I won two last year, and as of this win two weeks ago, I've won two this year' and lists the games he currently owns

  • Zoller's home collection has over 25 pinball games set up in the basement

    high confidence · Jason: 'We have like a lot. I think we have maybe a little over 25 games down here now. We kind of all set up during the pandemic lockdown'

  • Zoller competed in his first registered IFPA tournament at age 8 at a Transformers launch party in Connecticut, finishing 11th

    high confidence · Jason: 'I think it was around when I was eight years old I went to my first tournament in Connecticut. It was like a Transformers launch party, and I got like 11th or something'

  • Zoller joined the Jersey Pinball Association (JPA) league run by Coy Brian Morris

    high confidence · Jason: 'I started going to a local league in New Jersey called JPA, run by Coy Brian Morris, the legend Coy Brian Morris'

  • Zoller took 'at least a few years' before winning his first tournament

    high confidence · Jason: 'took years for me like you have to feel the ups and downs... took i don't know how many years it took at least a few years until i won my first tournament'

Notable Quotes

  • “I think that's one of the most important things in pinball. Obviously, it's like a physical sport as well. But the mental, that's really what it's about.”

    Jason Zoller @ mid-episode — Core advice on competitive pinball success; emphasizes mental resilience over mechanics

  • “You really just have to realize you are almost guaranteed to do worse if you bring that into the next ball or whatnot... You just got to reset, forget about it, pretend nothing happened, just remember what your plan is and go right back into it.”

    Jason Zoller @ mid-episode — Mental game strategy for handling bad balls and maintaining focus in tournaments

  • “It's really just a combination of a lot of different play styles and a lot of the top players that I used to watch.”

    Jason Zoller @ mid-episode — Describes learning methodology by studying multiple top players rather than modeling one

  • “The learning never ends. I'm still learning new things while playing right now.”

    Jason Zoller @ late-episode — Reflects growth mindset and ongoing competitive evolution

  • “It's all about repetition... Just have a high volume of play and practice all these different things... because that will eventually build the muscle memory. And that's really what's going to get you to that next level.”

    Jason Zoller @ closing — Core advice to aspiring competitive players on skill development

  • “If you don't advance far enough and learn where the modes are further down the line, then you're kind of going to be stuck like, oh, well, do I have to just shoot the blinky lights? And that's not always the move.”

    Papa Duke (host) @ late-episode — Practical advice on home practice setup and understanding game progression

  • “These guys are fearless... It's effective. It's not like it's just for show. So, like, it's actually improving their game.”

    Jason Zoller @ mid-episode — Observations on emerging technical skills in competitive pinball, specifically tap passing on Indy 500

Entities

Jason ZollerpersonPapa DukepersonHottie FriscopersonJoepersonCoy Brian MorrispersonDaniele AcharipersonYorianpersonRoger SharpepersonKeithpersonEscherperson

Signals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jason Zoller won IFPA 21 World Championships in Vienna, Austria

    high · Hosts introduce him as 'reigning world champion' and he discusses the tournament experience

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Emerging advanced techniques in competitive play: rolling tap passes on Indy 500 by young players like Arvid Vigo, stage scissor technique on Alien Poker

    medium · Zoller: 'Vigo's, like, doing rolling tap passes on Indy... that takes some cojones.' Travis Murray demonstrated stage scissor techniques

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Complex rule strategy on Addams Family: reality → solenoid gem → time → solenoid → lose reality to replay wizard mode

    high · Host asks how Zoller discovered the strategy; Zoller admits learning it from watching Escher or Z-Mac play at Pinball Expo

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Epstein Cup format praised for interactive gameplay allowing competitors to consult each other during play (similar to 'phone a friend' concept)

    medium · Zoller: 'I think that was, like, one of the most fun formats... it's the only time you can interact with people when you're playing in a tournament'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Serious competitive players maintain large home collections (Zoller has 25+ machines) with varied setups for practice against different difficulty levels

    high · Zoller describes basement setup with 25+ games, Grand Prix EM, and rubbers/outlanes kept at tournament-fair difficulty

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.515

0:00
Hey everybody, you missed us? I'm pretty sure you did. It's episode 9 of Wizards and Warriors. I am Hottie Frisco Pinball, my co-host. Hey, man, Joe. What's going on? What up, Joe? So this is going to be a quick turnaround episode because there are a ton of amazing tournaments coming up this summer. This is the big heat, the big burn. We got Pinbird coming up. Sweeper City is going on right now. The Beast right after that. NWPC after that. Papa 22 or 21. I forgot which one it is. 22. All right. 22. And then, you know, UK Open after that. So with this episode, we want to make sure that we go ahead and recap one of the biggest, obviously, tournaments in the world, the IFPA 21, the World Championships. And we have a special guest with us. We kind of hinted at it last episode. And right here, there he is. We have our reigning world champion. And then we'll talk about his performance at IFPA. Mr. Jason Zoller, Jason, thank you so much for joining us. How are you doing?
1:31
Awesome. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. We were talking a little bit before hitting record. The trip itself in Austria, getting there and back, you feeling refreshed and ready for Pinnberg?
1:44
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Finally feeling refreshed. It took a while. A lot of jet lag and, you know, but, yeah, feeling ready for Pinnberg. Very excited. A lot of big tournaments coming up. Is this the farthest you've traveled for a large tournament, Austria, or have you been anywhere further?
2:03
Yeah, I guess you could tie it with Germany because it's like the same area. But, yeah, Germany, Austria, about the same distance. Do you get a lot of international travel during the year? I know you've really picked up the competitive streak. Is this year or last year the most you've traveled internationally, or is it sort of kind of consistent three to four trips every year? Yeah, I mean, last year I was only in the UK And then two years ago it was Germany for IFPA 18 And then this year it was Austria So I'm averaging maybe one to two trips to Europe Do you get to do a little vacation while you're out there and see the sights? Does you and your dad get to do that?

  • Zoller lives five minutes from Asbury Park, New Jersey and practiced at the Silver Ball Museum

    high confidence · Jason: 'There is like a local silver ball arcade because I live like five minutes away from Asbury Park... silver ball museum over there that I used to go to a lot'

  • Zoller recently acquired a Grand Prix (an electromechanical/EM machine) a couple months ago

    high confidence · Jason: 'We did just get a Grand Prix, our only EM down here. We got that a couple months ago'

  • “I really try to pace myself because I'm really motivated to win that championship specifically.”

    Jason Zoller @ mid-episode — Explanation of his tournament preparation and mental approach to IFPA events

    • Z-Mac
    person
    Alexander Kayperson
    Derek Thompsonperson
    Greg Kennedyperson
    Arvid Vigoperson
    Travis Murrayperson
    Garrettperson
    Zach Sharpe McCarthyperson
    IFPA 21 World Championshipsevent
    Pinburghevent
    Silver Ball Museumvenue
    District 82 Pinballvenue
    Wizards & Warriors Pinball Podcastorganization
    ?

    collector_signal: High-level tournament winners accumulate new-in-box machines as prizes; Zoller won 4 NIB machines in past year (Food Pro, Metallica Remastered, Jaws Premium)

    high · Zoller: 'I won two last year, and as of this win two weeks ago, I've won two this year' and lists specific machines in basement

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Elite competitive players benefit from close mentorship by fathers/family members who act as coaches and strategy consultants during tournaments

    high · Zoller's father is described as getting him into hobby, teaching since beginning, and acting as 'coach' at tournaments

  • ?

    event_signal: Major tournaments clustered in summer: Pinburgh, Sweeper City, The Beast, NWPC, PAPA 22, UK Open

    high · Hosts mention 'ton of amazing tournaments coming up this summer... the big heat, the big burn' with specific event names

  • ?

    operational_signal: Tournament machine setups vary significantly (difficulty, rubber wear, outlane width, tilt sensitivity with/without earplugs) requiring players to adapt and practice on fair-difficulty machines at home

    high · Discussion of tilt forums with/without earplugs, outlane difficulty, rubber tightness, and why lightning precision flippers create 'scary setups'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball community is collaborative and non-gatekeeping; top players willingly share strategies and give advice to aspiring competitors

    high · Papa Duke: 'everyone's very open... no one's really gatekeeping... everyone's always trying to help push each other to advance'

  • ?

    education_signal: Competitive players learn through multiple methods: watching archived tournament footage, asking questions at events, practicing specific shots repeatedly for muscle memory, observing top players' techniques, and experimental play

    high · Zoller describes learning from watching older Pinburgh videos, asking questions of top players, studying specific techniques like ski passing and flipper positioning

  • $

    market_signal: Recent acquisition of electromechanical machines (Grand Prix) by elite competitive players indicates continued interest in classic machines alongside modern games

    medium · Zoller: 'We did just get a Grand Prix, our only EM down here. We got that a couple months ago... probably one of my favorite spinners of all EMs'

    • 2:44
    Oh, yeah Oh, it was really nice I think this was my favorite trip so far in Europe We were in the heart of Vienna And we got to see a lot of really cool things It was nice to see for the first three days we were there What was your favorite thing you saw this past trip? I forget the name of it, but it was this really huge, really cool palace that we visited, and we did like a tour through it. That's super. And that was my first palace that I visited. It was nice, very nice. Awesome. So, you know, make sure that passport doesn't expire. You got to get that rid of it. I just did mine for the UK Open last year. I was like, oh, man, it's been a while since I've done that. So thank you again for joining us. We're going to talk about your awesome performance at IFPA. Before that, we'll just ask you some questions For people that kind of want to know About how you got started in pinball And sort of your career in competitive pinball I think people like to hear Maybe some tips or tricks that you've learned Or some advice people have given you So when did you first start playing pinball? So I've seen a picture on your Facebook profile Of you on the Today Show, I believe A little banner when you were a lot younger Do you remember the game or location that started it all? or did your family always have a collection?
    3:54
    Yeah. We didn't have, like, a huge collection, but, I mean, I started playing when I was, like, two and a half years old. First game I ever played was The Addams Family, so that will always be, like, the most special game in my heart to me. Nice. I started off really young, you know, just playing for fun, watching my dad play. And I think the first three games we had were Addams Family, Star Trek Next Generation, and Twilight Zone, and then Lord of the Rings at one point. Nice. Not our collection. It's grown a lot since, but yeah, those were the first ones for me. Do you have any that you've won still? I know sometimes these competitions you'll win an actual new one box. Do you have any of those? Have you ever won one?
    4:33
    Yeah, so I won two last year, and as of this win two weeks ago, I've won two this year. Heck yeah. I'm actually in my basement right now. Oh, great. All you have here, the new one boxes I've won, Food Pro. We actually just got Metallica Remastered a few days ago, which is really cool. And then Jaws Premium. So we got a few. Nice. Some good picks.
    5:00
    Awesome. Jason, was pinball always competitive for you, or did you say you started more kind of casually first, or did you just kind of jump right into competing?
    5:09
    No. So I was always casual for the earliest years of my life. And then I think it was around when I was eight years old, I went to my first tournament in Connecticut. It was like a Transformers launch party, and I got like 11th or something. But, you know, it was a lot of fun. And then, yeah, so that's what, you know, the very first event I went to that was, you know, registered in the IFPA system. And then I started going to a local league in New Jersey called JPA, run by Coy Morris, the legend Coy Morris. And that's really what got me going. And that was, like, a consistent thing, you know, that I had to show up to once a week. And it was a lot of fun. That was, like, the beginnings of my competitive scene.
    5:54
    Do you remember anything from that Transformers tournament? I know we saw it at Pinberg last year. Like, do you carry any strategies over from that?
    6:02
    I barely ever get to see or, you know, play Transformers in tournaments nowadays. But it's pretty fun. It's kind of crazy seeing some of the pins that, you know, you'll, like, only see it in tournaments. It's like I know we're going to see Freak Out, which I don't even remember from last year.
    6:18
    Actually, I don't even remember it. I do remember watching Alexander Kay. He was destroying that Transformers.
    6:25
    It was insane. Yeah, there were hundreds of mil. Yeah. Were there any specific players that you looked up to when you were just getting started, other than your dad or maybe somebody, you know, you played with?
    6:38
    Yeah, my dad, you know, he got me into the hobby. He got me into the competitive scene and everything. I mean, I've always been watching him, and he's been teaching me since the very beginnings. But as for, like, the top players, I used to watch, like, a lot of those older Papa Pinberg videos and those older circuit tournaments out there, you know, watching Keith, Zach Sharp, Daniele, Yori, and all those, the greats of their generation. And I used to study them a lot, like, you know. And I learned so many things, you know, whether it be, you know, flipper skills or nudging and different things. Those are like some of the roots of, you know, getting that knowledge from the best of the best. Did they ever personally, you know, in tournaments as you started getting better, give you advice? Like, hey, when you're nudging, this is an example. I'm sure it's a very novice level skill, but like when you're nudging, make sure you're pushing up on this pin versus side to side. Well I guess once in a while You know I'll ask some questions It's very good to ask questions People in the pinball community will definitely answer And give you tips if you ask So definitely I would do that Yeah I've Noticed in this hobby it's one of the reasons I love it so much is everyone's very Open tournaments are very competitive But man no one's really gatekeeping Everything you know That they could and everyone's Always trying to help push each other to advance to the next level. I've been lucky enough to make a couple decent advances in the playoffs. I'm like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing on this next one. It's like Pat Hand. What am I supposed to do on Pat Hand?
    8:21
    It's great to have that knowledge from everybody and everyone's so willing to share that wealth of information.
    8:30
    For sure. yeah Jason you mentioned you're in New Jersey um did you grow up in like a kind of pinball uh heavy area or did you um have to kind of like look for places to play so like in the 2010s that was like really when I started playing a lot there there were some more tournaments in New Jersey that were IFPA sanctioned that are playing um there wasn't ever like a New Jersey open but But there were various small things I would go to. There is like a local silver ball arcade because I live like five minutes away from Asbury Park. I don't know if either of you heard of it. There's a silver ball museum over there that I used to go to a lot, practice and stuff. And, of course, the league, the pinball league in Jersey that I would go to. Those are good local places. And also we had a few games at our house at the time. So it was good for practice.
    9:23
    Nice. What was your first? I know you mentioned your early tournaments But your first big one That you kind of Maybe did well on Or you kind of surprised yourself Was it Maybe I'll ask it this way When you started playing in tournaments Did you do well right away Or did you kind of take some lumps I know you finished 11th in your first one But did you start to see the ups and downs Or how would you feel about your progression Early on in tournaments oh yeah that's that's the only realistic way is you have to go through you know however long it takes but took years for me like you have to feel the ups and downs and and get knocked out and get you know miss a cut line by very little it has to happen you know that's all part of the experience yeah and you know it took it took i don't know how many years it took at least a few years until i won my first tournament i think it was like maybe like a small local thing in new jersey but eventually, you know, once you win the first couple, then you start, you know, getting some confidence, and then you realize, okay, I can actually win some tournaments, and then you start winning more and more, and then eventually you do better at the really big events as well, so kind of know where it took it from. I was going to say, once you get that first victory, did it sort of, like, spark an addiction, where you're like, hey, this is my new drug, I can, like, you know, really get into this? It took a few wins, because it was kind of dry back then, But we really have to start making the final fours. Once you break through and get to the top fours more often, and then you get in that position so you're more familiar with it, you're more comfortable, eventually you'll start breaking through and winning the tournaments. So that's kind of how at least it was for me. Nice.
    11:08
    Nice. Are there any particular machines that you feel most kind of in tune with or like game-specific strategies you've developed for them? and Brent just put, why is it Avengers Infinity Quest? I feel like that's been one of your words in my mouth.
    11:24
    We have an Avengers premium right here in our basement. Always love seeing that in tournaments. I wish they would put it in a little more often so I can understand why. If they were to even butcher it and set it up like crazy difficult, I would still pick it at this point. I got so much love for Avengers. I'm for some reason very comfortable on that game, but I don't know. I'm pretty good on, like, flowy games. You know, Bally Williams era, I feel comfortable. I'm pretty comfortable at this point with, like, all eras, which you kind of have to be, especially if you want to win, like, if the world's because, you know, you do the old mid-new eras, but I try to make sure to get comfortable on all different types of games. I think that's really important. How did you discover, like, I'm thinking of your AIQ battle with Escher and ZMAC at Pinberg last year. Like, how did you discover, because when I have AIQ as well, it's just waiting for a new CPU board. But, like, the strategy to go reality, and then I think, I forgot what the second was, time, or is it time? and then you go to soul and then you come back and you lose reality so that you can play it again after you've done your Battle Thanos, the first mini wizard mode after soul gem. How do you figure that out? Is that you talking with other players or playing at home or talking about it with your dad or just figuring it out? I didn't learn that on my own. I'll just admit it. I must have watched Esther or Z-Mac do it at maybe Pinball Expo on stream or something. I was like, huh, I'm looking at it for some time. And then I actually got some use out of it there, which was nice. Nice. Have you figured out any strategies, like, on your own that you're, I don't want to say proud of, but you're kind of like, hey, this actually works, especially with ones you own. I know it's eventually everybody's going to figure out what the meta is, but is there something you've figured out on a pin that you've played? You're like, yeah, this is my strat, or this is something I figured out.
    13:24
    Yeah, definitely. Like, if you get enough play on any game, you'll probably find something that you can consistently do over and over that's safe, that's, you know, worth the reward.
    13:35
    Nice. Yeah. Joe. Yeah, let's see. What's your approach when you're down going into, like, a ball three situation? Do you change your strategy or do you kind of stay the course? And I also put a note here, the Epstein Cup final on AC kind of comes to mind. I mean, it's really just situational. Like, you have to just see what you're given. Like, how close you are to multi-ball. I mean, I kind of just played it the way I normally would, I guess, if it was any ball, ball one, two, or three. But I ended up choosing to go, I guess, one of the last players because I really wanted to play a multiball because I'm pretty comfortable with multiball especially on that game so you know I was I was watching what was going on and I saw like going into ball four you know you know how it's like player one two three four so player one it was either going to be me or Greg Kennedy that I sent to go on that player but that one was further for multiball so I'm like Greg if you want to do that I kind of want to get into a multiball on the last player and maybe get something going. So that was really the decision that I went with that time. But it was really cool. I think that was, like, one of the most fun formats, like, even more fun than last year because, you know, even when I was in multiball, like, I'd cradle up and stuff, and then I'd look behind me asking them for advice and stuff. It's so cool, like, because it's such an interactive – it's the only time you can interact with people when you're playing in a tournament. So it would be nice if we could do that more often, and maybe like a split flipper thing or something. I think it was really fun. You know what it could be like? It could be like who wants to be a millionaire, and you hit the phone a friend, and they can come and give you a little strategy.
    15:26
    For sure. Oh, man. So what is the best piece of advice you've ever received about competitive pinball?
    15:35
    I'll tell you. One thing that I've really improved upon from when I was younger is your mental game. I think that's one of the most important things in pinball. Obviously, it's like a physical sport as well. But the mental, that's really what it's about. Like you could be playing decent, but like if you get rattled so easily by something ridiculous happening, because that's inevitable with pinball, you know, you're going to get screwed sometimes. If you let that get to you, you're going to drag that into your future games, and that's going to mess you up a lot. And that's what used to happen to me a lot when I was younger. and my dad you know he's kind of like my coach as well in a way when I'm playing but he helped me a lot and I've really improved on that since that's awesome yeah no the mental is it's it's such a bigger part than I think people uh give credit for because you know everyone can get unlucky you can get a sling drain pretty quickly um you're always gonna everyone's gonna to get a house ball, but man, how you bounce back from that. I think Escher's dad, Adam, told me once, he's like, you know, big deal. You lost the ball. You still got two other ones to go or one other one to go ahead and make something happen because you can make a lot happen in one ball. And that mental, I think I'm learning a lot talking to others like yourselves. It's such a big part of figuring out how to just clear that obstacle and make sure you rinse it from your brain and just attack the next wall. Exactly, yeah. You've got to totally reset yourself. It doesn't matter what happens. It's hard. It's not easy, for sure. I know a lot of us put pressure on ourselves. We think we practice. We want to do good and go from there.
    17:16
    Yeah. You really just have to realize you are almost guaranteed to do worse if you bring that into the next fall or whatnot. It's happened so many times to me. You just got to reset, forget about it, pretend nothing happened, just remember what your plan is and go right back into it.
    17:38
    That's something I feel like I've noticed in watching you play at these bigger tournaments and seeing these Final Four top two, depending on if it's head-to-head.
    17:47
    You can even see it on the screen footage that we're about to watch. You almost have a corner guy that you can go to, whether it be your dad or one of your friends it's like kind of off camera.
    17:59
    You're just consulting with constantly. I'm like, hey, like what's the next move, you know, when you're not on the ball? And then when you step up, you know, obviously you have to execute. So that's something that's really been fun to kind of observe as a, you know, audience.
    18:13
    Yeah, that's definitely a lot of help. If you have like one or a few people that you can like talk with, get advice from, even not just, you know, pinball specific advice, but even maybe just for the mental help, definitely is a good idea. Yeah. So, Jason, did you do anything different to prepare for this year's Worlds compared to other events or even last year's Worlds event?
    18:37
    Not really. I mean, I have been playing just like whenever I feel like it for fun, like in my basement. We have like a lot. I think we have maybe a little over 25 games down here now. We kind of all set up during the pandemic lockdown. So, like we finished our basement. We have a lot of games down here. That's awesome. Yeah, just practicing, you know, different arrows and stuff. We did just get a Grand Prix, our only EM down here. We got that a couple months ago, which is fun. So, I mean, I really just like practicing. There isn't really anything specific I do beforehand. Maybe, like, in the past I've practiced even more. Sometimes, actually, my dad and I will just do, like, for fun competitions against each other, like doing the format of the tournament that we're going to play in. And sometimes we'll even put some money on it. So there you go. Yeah, I think that's pretty fun. You got to hustle the old man.
    19:29
    That's awesome. You would do like a pin master's format and have like nine holes. And then it's a lot of fun, though. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, Graham, do you have anything to – go ahead, go ahead. Do you have anything to harden your games at home, or do you like change out the rubbers to like, you know, the kind of suzo halves that you see often or like, you know, widen the outlanes and stuff? Yeah, outlanes are – they're not – You know, they're pretty wide. I kind of just also want to get some enjoyment out of the games at home. But, you know, don't make them super easy, obviously, because you don't want to prepare yourself like that for a super difficult setup in a tournament. But, yeah, we keep our rubbers on. Like, it's pretty fair, I would say. But some of our games are a little bit on the tough side. No Yagpin setup, like lightning precision flippers? Nope. You know, 2.4, plank of wood on the back leg. You see the lightning precision flippers, as you said. Those are insane. Yeah, that was an experience. Watch packs of that Iron Man game on stage years ago. That was, yeah, some scary setups. It really makes you good if you, like, you know, that's why Derek Thompson, he's been so good lately. He's been winning huge classics events because he keeps playing. Like, that's all he ever plays on locally. And then he goes to these tournaments. It's like, well, that's nothing. Like, what is this? The ball is moving so slowly. Yeah, he was running. It's a really smart way of practicing, for sure. He was running this past Yagpin with the hybrid classics, and he still won it. It was absolutely insane because he couldn't do main because he was PDing and running everything. I was like, and he still put enough entries together to make the playoffs and then eventually win it all. I was going to say, Grand Prix is a great addition. That's probably one of my favorite spinners of all EMs. It's just so satisfying. And if you can dial it in and know where it is on the flipper every time, man, you guys picked a good one. That's probably top three spinners for me of all time. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. How do you – so coming down from these world finals, how do you manage pressure? Do you have, like, a mental routine or mantra you stick to? I know people are going to say, hey, you know, why is he taking this time to get to the ball or to come, you know, play his ball? But I think in Worlds, I think the fact that you're at that stage, you kind of should be giving the competitors as much time as they need, obviously, until it's egregious where it's like half an hour. But is there something you're doing in between balls that you sort of are doing to yourself mentally? or maybe you're just talking with your fellow competitors about what strategy you need to go. I saw you talking with Garrett a lot. He's our Texas State champ. He's an amazing player, and he's a great guy too. I love playing with him locally. So I was hoping him and Jack were kind of teaching you about – I forgot what – we'll get to it on the footage, but they were talking to you about one of the pins. I think it was Jackbot, actually.
    22:32
    Yeah, yeah, Jackbot. they were giving me some advice. Yeah, no, the Shahans are great guys. I love them.
    22:40
    But as for, like, pressure and, like, preparing, yeah, like, I feel like it's mainly just the IFPA tournament that I take, like, extra long to get to the game. But it's such an intense format and it's such a grind. And the fatigue, like, you know, you could really start kicking it later in the day. But I really try to pace myself because I'm really motivated to win that championship specifically. Of course. Sometimes, honestly, it's just because I'm in the bathroom or something. But, yeah, I try to be patient and pace myself a lot when I'm flying. And sometimes the other thing is because the tilt bobs, they don't have the earplugs. Like, you really got to wait. So sometimes that's the other reason. So explain that for people that are new to pinball. What do the earplugs do? So basically, I don't know exactly, but it makes it tougher for the dangers to like the momentum to keep going. It has something to do with the tilt-off specifically. Gotcha. Basically, with earplug, it takes way less time for the tilt-off to reset and stop swinging.
    23:50
    And without it, it could be swinging for minutes. Yeah. I sort of make it Kind of the time you're taking To gather yourself and figure out What's going on to like when Z-Mac paces I'm like oh yeah like when we were at Yankton and they had the track above I'm like Z-Mac would get a ton of laps If he could out there You know the concourse So that's good that's good to hear That's funny in Pimber Finals last year I think both of us I was actually pacing like While he was pacing I don't know why I guess I just felt like doing it that time. Do you have an Apple Watch? You need to count your steps.
    24:29
    Maybe I should. That would be interesting when I'm at one of these big tournaments. I don't have an Apple Watch. Do a competition with Z-Mac. Who can pace four steps? He's going to destroy me. Not even close.
    24:43
    I'll give him that competition any day. Jason, you mentioned you've got your dad as a big mentor and part of the reason why you've come to like the game so much and learning about pinball strategy, would you say that anyone else – I know you mentioned a few names earlier too, but would you model or did you model your game after anyone specifically or even if it comes to like certain skills or things you use when you play?
    25:13
    It's really just a combination of a lot of different play styles and a lot of the top players that I used to watch. like just if I really liked something that I saw I know um for example Daniele I think he used to do a lot of ski passing back in the day um so I might have gotten some of that from him um you know watching Keith play he knows like everything pretty much so you'll always learn something watching Keith like you know in the Pimberg finals when you know the first time I saw it happen on Harlem when he held up like the upper left flipper and the ball just drifted slowly down to the lower flipper right things like that you like you it's hard to like learn that on your own like some things you kind of just need to watch to to learn about but yeah no just I've learned so many things from watching like those older videos it's really really great thing but nowadays like you know there's so much content like every tournament with all these top kids and and the competition's getting crazy good I'm still like the learning never ends I'm still learning new things while playing right now. Like, for example, the kids, like Arvid Vigo, they just tap pass like it's nothing on Indy 500. Yeah, I noted that in the footage. Vigo's, like, doing rolling tap passes on Indy. I was like, what is going on? That's not a tap pass. It's like, damn, these guys are fearless. Yeah, it's like, that takes some cojones. I was like, dude, what just happened there?
    26:44
    It's effective. It's not like it's just for show. So, like, it's actually improving their game. It's like things like that. If I could perfect some of those things, you know, it's a really good thing to do. I've got to get an indie in the collection now.
    26:58
    Well, I would definitely have one if we had a lot more room. Yeah. I was thinking about what you said about learning, like, some of the skills that you see for the first time. I remember Travis Murray showed me stage scissor flipping on Alien Poker when the little thing. I was like, what is that? Where did that come from? Like there's always a new trick to learn. What advice would you give to players trying to break into top level competition now? Is there something you would initially tell them? You know, you already mentioned get over having a bad ball. Is there anything else?
    27:32
    Yeah, of course. Like I mentioned before, the mental game is huge. I really just think like just it's all about repetition. And if you just keep playing, it doesn't even really matter what game you play. But, of course, you want to play, like, all different eras. But just keep playing and keep playing. Just have a high volume of play and practice all these different things. Like, you know, when you're playing for fun and stuff, mess around and try different things. Maybe try shooting the same shot over and over. You know, because that will eventually build the muscle memory. And that's really what's going to get you to that next level, I think. And that's, you know, and you can do that for learning flipper skills, accuracy, and nudging even. Those are, like, the big ones. Just practice and, you know, because you have nothing to lose when you're playing for fun. And then the other thing, you know, if it's your goal to get high in the ranks, you've got to just, it's all about the experience factor. You've got to just keep playing and getting into these, you know, higher pressure situations the more you go on. and you'll eventually get more comfortable with it. And then once you start winning bigger things, you know, that's really what will get you going. Yeah, there's nothing like being in the moment because it's so much different than playing at home. You could play Godzilla at your house 100 times, but then when you're at District 82 and you short plunge and you're expecting it to bounce off the right plastic to go to left flipper, but then it just goes to the right out lane, it's like, all right, Well, I guess I've got to figure that out next. Yeah, I would definitely say try not to practice on, like, super tough setups because it's going to be hard to do what you want. And just for the sake of learning, definitely try to play, like, normal setups and just mess around, honestly. Like, just practice, you know, if you think, am I able to do this, make this certain shot from this angle or something like that? And then, oh, you can. So then you can, you know, learn things that way. It's kind of what I do sometimes. That's really good advice because you're going to, if you set it, and I think there's a lot of people that say, well, I want to set it up difficult so I know how it plays or it's going to be similar. But at the same time, if you don't advance far enough and learn where the modes are further down the line, then you're kind of going to be stuck like, oh, well, do I have to just shoot the blinky lights? And that's not always the move. It's knowing, hey, if I hit this next while cradled up, I have a chance to double it here. And I think that's really, really good advice. and something I don't think people think about a lot because you can make it difficult at home, but you also have to see the game to know what's the next move.
    30:13
    Yeah, I think for the sake of, like, just learning the basics and, you know, repeating something over and over until you build the muscle memory, play on pretty normal setups. But, you know, if you want to, like, improve your reflexes and stuff and, like, reaction time eventually, then, yeah, definitely I would recommend playing on harder setups to prep you for, like, some of these bigger tournaments. in addition to that, I feel like after attending some of these, you know, major tournaments lately in the last couple years, something I noticed is, like, you're just on your feet for so long during the day that you've got to build up that endurance, you know. Do you think you, like, do you do anything kind of active? Like, do you, like, work out and stuff to kind of, like, build up that endurance? I noticed that you, are you in, like, a bowling club with your school? Is that just kind of like a side effect? Like in my junior year last year, that was the first year I started going to bowling. Yeah, that was just for fun. I don't plan on, like, doing competitive bowling. What? Maybe. I think I was right. It's a fun thing because it's kind of similar with pinball, the concept of, like, once you find the perfect, like, hook, the perfect angle, and you just keep repeating it, it's all about consistency. And then that's how you get good at it. It's kind of similar with pinball in that way. Probably why I like it. That's awesome Jason, what's the most underrated skill in competitive pinball right now? Underrated skill maybe tap passing on the newer games, I don't know that's definitely, no one's really doing that, I mean I'm not really doing that because it's scary sometimes and sometimes the flippers feel weird and it's harder to do it on some games but underrated skill I don't know actually, that's a good question if you don't have an answer that's okay can you guys think of any?
    32:13
    honestly I think I feel like loop passing, people don't do a lot of loop passing that's true, that's true, you forget about them yeah yeah, I actually was doing some loop passing on Venom which we're going to get to in the IFPA Worlds this year. It is very fun. Like, once I'm in the zone and I can start loop passing, it's a really useful technique to do, like on Attack from Mars and certain games which have good geometry for doing it. Yeah, Venom especially, and now we're going to see it at Pinburg. It was just announced in one of the banks, and it's the pros, so there's less stop-and-go, less mechs there. What excites you when you see a tournament announcement, like specific games, format, location? Is there anything you were like, yes, this is Other than the potential for Whoppers and big money Let's get the obvious Out of the way Definitely those I would say the games is my main thing The format is less important Because it always just roots down To like, if you win It's not really going to make much of a difference I mean, there are some small nuances Like if you're playing in four player groups There's longer wait time between you playing As opposed to head to head and then of course pin masters is like its own unique thing which i really like the pin masters format i wish it happened it's one of the toughest but it's it's very rewarding i wish it was more often but yeah i mean i don't mind the formats most of the time i i really just wait to see what the game list is and then of course when i'm there how the setups are if they're not hopefully they're not too ridiculously brutal but yeah yeah do you have a preference for like match play versus, you know, card or best game?
    33:57
    Match play, I mean, card is obviously the, that's the tough one because that gets, you know, in a really high pressure situation. But it is, I do like card because it's more challenging.
    34:10
    I don't really have a problem with any formats. I mean, I can't really think of any right now, but I really like head to head. I think that's a lot of fun because it can get really intense and you get to specifically play one player that could be, you know, really good. So I think that's cool in its own way.
    34:29
    Sure. Well, Jason, you've reached the pinnacle of ranked pinball greatness. You're the number one overall pro in rank and rating, North American champion, two-time IFPA world champion, you know, 2024 world's greatest pinball player. by all accounts first ballot hall of famer where do you go from here i guess i just gotta repeat some stuff like we have pinberg next week i'm gonna try to repeat that for the first time we'll see how it goes but pinberg is a lot of fun um yeah but of course i'm gonna try to get you know the the world's greatest trophy for 2025 you know escher is still up there uh z mac is he's trying to get up there, but it'll be a fun race for sure. I guess more majors is my main motivation right now.
    35:19
    Yeah, because it's always so satisfying when you win a major. Yeah, you can always have one checked off on your list. I know they were talking in the commentary about great players that have never won a major, and it's almost like golf, players that have never won a major there, NBA, players that have never won a title. They're always going to have that sticking point. So when you knock one, you get one. You're like, okay, that one's off my back. Now I can focus on start collecting them like the Infinity Stones like Thanos. So good job. Good job on doing all that. Thank you for answering our questions. Now we're going to get into the fun stuff. We're going to review all the footage of this year's IFPAs in Austria. It was a first to four, sudden death, best of three, tiebreaker at 3-3. That will come into play. So let me just go over here and then start showing off the footage. So did you guys go in order of picking games? It was like Vigo picked Pharaoh, and then you picked Firepower, and then so forth?
    36:23
    Yeah, so we each picked, like, because we each pick an old, mid, and new. Okay. But I think because Vigo was higher seed, he got to choose if he started on his or my games. So he chose his game first. You can choose any era in whatever order you want. So he just chose Pharaoh, I think. Okay. And so there were times where you selected to go first instead of switching off.
    36:44
    Was there any strategy in that, or just sometimes you want to go first? Because it's head-to-head, so it's not as long of a wait between balls.
    36:56
    I forget, actually, if I chose first, but I think the person that chooses their game, I think the other person gets to choose order. Okay. I might be wrong. I forget, but I think he would have chose second every time. Actually, no, I think I did choose to go first on Indy 500, now that I think of it. Gotcha, yeah. I think that's in our notes. Yeah, in our notes I have you going first.
    37:20
    Yeah, I think that was because I learned the hard way the round before with Harbin. He, you know, like over a bill, and the flipper, the right flipper was, like, weak. I couldn't make the left rank well. Oh, no. I'm going to try to burn it out for a bit because it didn't end up working out as planned. He ended up beating me on that. So the first game you're going up against Vigo in the Worlds, Vigo Logren, and obviously another great player. First game is Pharoah. What can you tell our esteemed viewers? And before we get to that, I want to make sure everybody, please, if you are listening to this, there is a video format. It's available on Spotify and YouTube. You can go to YouTube.com slash Frisco Pinball or check out Wizards and Warriors on Spotify. There is video footage. It's easier to follow along if you're watching this. So please, please go check that out. So, Pharaoh, what is your strategy? What do you know about Pharaoh? I was looking up kind of hints and tips. And it's not, I mean, it's not saying, I'm not saying there's not a lot, but it was a very tough go for both of you on this one, it felt like. I mean all I really know to do is just like bash away at the lit targets the drop targets at the top okay I think once you get enough of them I don't I don't know the exact rules I just know eventually it'll light your locks on the top and bottom of the play field and then you get either one you're in a two ball multi ball and I think then it's 2x play field and then you just want to get ball up top and hit targets all day from what I know yeah so we're watching we're watching the practice footage. I remember looking at this, and I feel like I've played this once, and I know Eric was talking about how you could backhand that left loop to get up to the upper play field. Did you try that? I think I did. I think you could do it most of the time, but if you miss, it might just brick down the middle or something. It might have happened to me. Yeah, so ball one, we're still watching your practice a little here. I'll bring the footage up a little. So Vigo's about to go. He does go. He ends up getting his, he plunged through the lower play field. And I think he tries to, let me see, he's looking here. Yeah. So I think he tries to backhand the forehand, excuse me, the left orbit from the right. So to get to the upper play field and he tried to move, I think a lot of people want to learn how to shimmy. So it's going to bounce here and then he hits it and then, yeah, he was trying to shimmy it right there.
    39:55
    That's the first time I'm watching it, actually. Yeah. He should have had that, man. He usually does that, him and Arvid. So, how do you perform the shimmy? Are you moving it, like, are your palms on the each side and you're like frantically moving it back and forth or how would you do it? I've actually been practicing that lately because we have Grand Prix and it's, it's hard to do, but because there's the cap like on the in lane, out lane, like divider metal rail, if it goes in like either out lane, you can maybe try to shimmy it backwards through it, but usually it tilts, but I have gotten it a handful of times. So I've been practicing like, like how I want to do that on each side. But yeah, you really just, you kind of have to like move your body, like all the way to the opposite side. And then you just have to shake it, keep shimmying it, and, you know, not too much to tilt, but just get that side-to-side motion and hope that it eventually pops back into play. All right. So, yeah, so he doesn't have a very good ball. He's at 17,000. So you're about to step up. And let's get to you here. Yeah, right here. So you're playing. You're at 21. And I think the ball – so, yeah, you got a few shots up top, but it was hard to get control down low. And so you're waiting for the ball to release here. Or excuse me, you had the plunge. And then, I'm sorry, you didn't have 21. That was player two. So this is your, you get your shots up here. You hit it into that like half candy cane on the right. And I think that just gives you points. That's your lock shot though, right? Yeah. Okay. Because then the other lock is on that right loop down below. And then you get a sling drain. So you both have very uneventful ball ones. I mean, that's these old machines. You're not going to get a lot of time most of the time, and you're always going to have a ball that goes quick.
    41:51
    Remember anything about ball one? I'm not going to press it because we've got a lot of games to get through.
    41:56
    Did you – I just know that when the locks are lit, it will be solid green, I think, and when the green is blinking, I think that's like a hurry up or something, which can light sometimes. Yeah, that's what Eric was talking about in the commentary, because the top right one was blinking, and I think everybody thought it was a lock, but it was a hurry-up value. And I don't think Vigo, I think either you or Vigo had it and you weren't shooting it, but, you know, for good reason. So Vigo, ball two, gets better control up top, picks off some drops, lights the green, light up top. And you see Eric circling some of the notes up there. Eric Stone on commentary, great player and a former IFBA champion. His upper playfield lock was still lit. he did hit the upper left candy cane at one point. So see, the green is blinking there. And he got about $30,000, I think, for his value. He did a – and he started the two-ball multi-ball. So I going to bring the footage up a little right here On this game the upper play normally has regular size flippers right Did they change it to mini flippers
    43:01
    Oh, does it? I'm not sure. I think, I mean, the only other experience I've had with Pharaoh was at D82.
    43:07
    I think it was, I forget, actually. I feel like it was small flippers, though. Yeah, I remember playing it there, too. That's the only other place I've played Pharaoh, and that was at District 82. And so Vigo, he tried to post-transfer. He did a post-transfer to a ski pass, so he kind of, like, brought the ball up, ski passed it over, and tried to backhand the left loop to get back to that upper play field. But he missed the shot and then went to the right out lane, or left out lane. But he did have a good ball. He was at 205,000. So we're going to go to 1225 because you step up, and you're about to have a really good skill move right here. I'm going to put the volume on.
    43:48
    I was going to come down here. Nice little catch right there. I kind of want to ask you, I mean, I feel like that's a skill everybody learns eventually, but did you start practicing those drop catches, or is that just something through experience that, you know, maybe your dad taught you or you learn it on every pin? How are you knowing when it's coming down the ramp that you're going to be able to drop catch it? It has to be, like, the right angle, I think. Okay. It's coming straight down. So if it's like on the right side of the play field and it's coming down to the right flipper, that would be, I mean, you can do like a quick drop catch, but that's more advanced. That's like more of a live catch situation. If it's coming down from the same side as the flipper, but when it's coming like from the right in this example and it's angling to the left flipper, that's like the good, perfect drop catch angle to do it from most of the time. Yeah, I'm replaying a few times so people can see. It's coming down that right ramp, and then boom, beautiful catch right there. So, yeah, so you're playing good. You got your light. You end up lighting your lock for I think either both. I think the lock, I don't think it matters which one you can. I think it's kind of like there's another pin I'm trying to think of where people, I don't know, is it Grand Lizard maybe? There's one where there's a lock like up top and on the bottom, but you can hit either of them. So you're already at 184,000 here, and you're trying that backhand. Was that backhand easy? Because Eric said he was picking it off like in the early qualifying rounds with a pretty simple flick.
    45:29
    Yeah, it's a very tight shot, though, and I don't think it had like the fat rubbers around it making it even smaller, but you have to be very precise with it anyways, and if you missed it, you were going to brick the post, and that could really get you into trouble, which I did a couple times. Yeah, so there you were going for the forehand, and I think Eric was yelling at everybody, stop forehanding the shot. But it reminds me of, I think it's Grand Lizard, where it's like it can be a tight shot or people put the fat rubber. So there was a fat rubber on that?
    46:03
    Yeah, it was like it was fat enough for me to miss it a lot. I've seen it with fat rubbers. It's like almost impossible. Like some copies, you don't even attempt going for that left shot. And sometimes you just want to get ball up top either middle ramp or right ramp if the lower left flipper is strong enough. Well, the good news is you two were pretty close after the first two balls. You had 217,000. Vigo had 205,000, two balls.
    46:30
    First game, is there anything that you're thinking about going into ball three? Just stay the course?
    46:37
    No. Oh, he actually did a similar. Yeah Yep I guess I just The normal plan as usual just get As many lit upper drops as I can And then get into multiball and just Stay alive as long as possible I was just Keeping going at that plan Yeah he had I put in the notes he had A really nice drop catch too I was like Man if this is how it's starting This is going to be a great great finals So he's picking off Some shots he's got here it is Boom right there that is really good angle to do the drop catch on. But he gets the, yeah, he's looking at it and he's got his... And the other thing was that they disabled the magna saves on each in lane. Now we get very difficult. There was a note on the game and I'm like, crap. As if this game wasn't on already. But this also had a... Go ahead. I was going to say, I did look up the game. So it does normally have a regular-sized flipper on the upper left, but the upper right flipper is always apparently small. So they just changed the one flipper on the left side.
    47:47
    Make it harder there. I was going to say it reminds me of Barracora because you can have that safe ball strategy when you lock it, and then if your other ball drains, the locked one will come back down, and that's what Vigo had on – or you had on your ball too. So Vigo ends with 347,000 We are into your ball three And fortunately we'll see right here This was not a good ball three But this is the ball that a lot of us expect Kind of always to happen once every game So here is your Plunge and then Here is your power drain right there Unfortunately I didn't even like blink I was just like next game Where you have to Have a good mental game and just reset because if I get to, that's really going to cause problems later. Yeah, I was going to. So I knew it wasn't me at that time. Sometimes there really just isn't much you can do like that case. So try not to let it get to you too much.
    48:48
    Yeah, those are tough because you're seeing the ball move it around. You're like, okay, it's going to come down the center and it may feed the left flipper like it normally does, but it was coming so fast and it just angled right to the center. You're just like, all right, well, on to the next one. Luckily, that's only game one. So game one is Pharaoh. Your pick was next, right, Firepower? Yep. All right. And what can you tell us about Firepower? This one's a strategy here that me and Joe learned about chatting.
    49:18
    Feel free to go ahead and explain it. I actually learned it. That was the first time I ever thought of doing that this weekend. Actually, it was Eric Snowden who was commentating that taught me about it because he tried doing it in qualifying, and it worked. But the way he was doing it, he was just shatting the unlit in lanes. And then I looked, like, when I was playing, I think it might have been, like, one time in qualifying or maybe the first round in finals. I think it was the first round in finals against Sakshar. I looked at the in lanes, and I said, oh, so when they're lit, they're 3,000 in lane as opposed to 1,000. So how do I light them? I figured out how to light them. and you have to beat the right bank of blue stand-up targets, and then it's lit for the rest of the ball. And then I ended up doing that. And the nice thing was if you got, like, one or two of the blue targets, it carried over to the next ball as long as you don't tilt it.
    50:14
    So that was what I was going for, just light the in lanes. If I even get a chance on one ball to do it, like, if I light the in lanes,
    50:23
    probably be enough, and that's what I went with. Yeah, and it's really good because I feel like sometimes it awards, like, more points than it should. It did. No, it did. So if you watch the footage, every time you go up it, it gives you the 3,000. Let's say it's lit. But when you came down, it would sometimes give 6 to 9. So you were picking up 9 to 15,000 versus the 6 that you would normally get. And it was doing it for both of you. And it was on the right side. So if you get on the right side, you would watch the score, and it'd be like, okay, well, here comes the three. But then it'd come down and be like, wait a minute, I just got an extra 6,000 to 9,000. So it was pretty awesome. So the normal way to play is what, going for the stand-ups in the middle and then trying to get multi-ball?
    51:12
    Yeah, I mean, if it's like an unchatsable or if it's like dangerous, if it goes up and around when he shots, then the normal strategy would just be hit the targets in the middle. and then grind spinner a lot, and then you could get your multi-ball going eventually. And don't tilt because that resets your progress.
    51:31
    So it is a really fun game, though, in general, no matter what you play it. No, whatever way you play it, it's fun. Yeah, and Eric was like, I'm going for the unlit lanes. But you had some. So your ball one is right here, and we're watching it. So you had, and he was nervous because of that sort of drain on the right out lane where it could hit one of the stand-ups on the right, bounce to the right plastic near the in lane, and then sort of go out and bounce around. But it was great because you had some rebounds where it would hit the slings, and then it would just go from right to left sling and then hit the stand-ups up there. And Eric's circling it now. And so obviously your ball one wasn't as ideal as possible. You had 10,000, but we're going to see Vigo step up here in a second right here and we'll watch his ball. We're not going to watch all the footage of these balls because it does take some time because both of you get in a really good groove. Is there a spot on the flipper you were aiming for when you were shatting, like middle? Because Eric was talking about in commentary how he was aiming at, like, I think the upper part of the flipper versus normally, or the middle part where you would aim for the bottom tip of the opposite flipper.
    52:53
    Yeah, I mean, I've shot so many times, you know, whether it be this or both fiction or something, but it's really, it's like you have to wait until it gets towards the edge of the flipper or else it won't be a clean enough shot. Yeah. But it's really just based on feel, like more so intuition. I'm not really like thinking or like measuring every time I shot or something, But, yeah, once you do it enough times, it's muscle memory at that point. Nice. Yeah, so Vigo ends up tilting, which is something that we're going to have to talk about coming out of one of his balls. But here we are. You have been – you've entered into your ball two, and now we are watching the shots begin. So you've got your three stand-ups. What's crazy is your bonus maxes out so fast when you do the shots. It was like two or three in-lane up and downs, and your bonus was already at $29,000. So talk about what you're feeling here to the viewers.
    53:55
    I'm feeling great here. I mean, I shouldn't do that or, you know, try to leave, but it was really reliable on that right side. Even on the left, it wasn't too bad sometimes, but, you know, once I got this going, got into a flow, I felt great. Were you bumping the machine at all? Vigo did a small bump and it tilted Were you just letting it bounce normally off the, or doing the micro flip off the right flipper to get it to the left? So I knew since the first round of finals I played this in, that that tilt was insanely tight, and especially after I saw what happened to Vigo I knew, I'm not touching this game, I mean this was before it happened, but I knew to be very careful with it, that was one of the tightest tilts of that tournament. Yeah, and what was crazy is, if you were too good at shatting, it was kind of a negative here, because if you hit such a clean shat like we just saw there, the ball would go up all the way versus rattling around to the switch and then losing its momentum and coming back. Joe, did you know this strategy before, because I did it.
    55:02
    No, I really didn't. Until I watched this, I was like, huh, I didn't realize this was like a shats all day kind of game. But, yeah, I mean, the last time I played this was, like, I think it was at Indisc at the Classics, you know, Target Match Play, and we were all kind of trying to figure out if people would just kind of rip the spinner when it's lit. You know, you can light the spinner by hitting the stand-up targets in the middle of the play field.
    55:24
    Jason, if you are playing it kind of that way, are you team forehand the stand-ups or backhand? Because I know that's been kind of a topic of discussion recently. I guess like just whatever the situation like if I'm on the left flipper and I need the right like one or two more right targets I'll probably just go for it anyway but probably is like I would think it's safer from a backhand I'm not entirely sure but yeah I kind of just go with the flow. So cool. Yeah, this was, so V goes up on his ball too. And I am going to show this footage because it's kind of crazy what happens. I actually forgot to timestamp it, but I called this the shots bonanza. He's already at 134. I'm going to go a little here and yeah, we're going to go right here. And I think it'll come up. So it starts hitting the slings and then boom.
    56:18
    I was right behind him. I think I saw that. It was so ridiculous. Someone mentioned, was his leg on the machine? Like, did anyone see, like, the move that he actually made? No clue. I don't know if anyone else was watching from behind him. Because it literally goes left sling, right sling, left sling, and then it, like, maybe it does it one more time, but it hits the top right stand up on the left bank, and then it comes down and it, like, hits the target bank on the right, and then it just fills, and you're like, what just happened? So, you know, you feel bad for it. It's that Carl D'Angelo email that's pinball. But it's just crazy that – here it is. Boom, boom. Yeah, there it is. It's just wild. I don't know. It's Stephen Fraser watching it a second and third time. It's the craziest occurrence, that final. What was going on after that? I know Becker came out to check it, right, or on ball three? You opened the game and saw the tilt. It was moving a little bit, but it was just a play-on scenario. Yeah. You don't change your strategy then, right? It's just do what you were doing and hope it doesn't sling tilt?
    57:29
    Be extra careful. Like, I think I just told myself, all right, I'm not even doing slight nudges anymore after what just happened. Like, you can't mess around if you see that happen. Exactly. So you were at 184,000. Vigo is at 167 He had his 29 in bonus kind of go away there So it's ball three The TDs come in Check the tilt Bob The ruling that's made his play on So you're going back to the well And you're doing your Strategy Your in lanes get lit You had There's your one that's already there And so because you didn't tilt like you said They carry over You got the air pods in Are you listening to music or are you just kind of blocking things out?
    58:16
    Yeah, I was listening to music. I have a playlist that I just put on random sometimes. If I'm feeling like music is the thing I want to do that day, then I'll just start playing that and just put it on random or something. It helps sometimes, definitely with nerves, or even just getting you more comfortable when you're playing. You heard that here, folks. He's listening to all the Wizards and Warriors episodes. I'm just kidding. But that's cool I know some people There's like I just bought some new headphones today Because I want to see if it helps Because I have the over the ear ones That you can still sort of hear I'm interested Did you always play with headphones Or did you Did you sort of change that up Recently or Sometimes I'll just have one in And I won't always have music playing But No I kind of just do what I'm feeling Sometimes I won't listen to anything But You know if I'm feeling music I'll put on something Nice. So we're watching the shots continue. It's just beautiful, beautiful play. The microflips are so good. That's one skill that when I watch you do them, I'm like, that's the skill I'd love to master because it's such a great way to get control on the, just get one, get control of the ball. Instead of relying on a ski pass, you can sort of assist it a little bit with the microflip like that right there. How are you doing that? I guess if we're trying to Teach new players Are you lightly depressing the button? How are you doing the microflip?
    59:48
    Yeah, so Each game is different Even if you're playing One, say it's Jurassic Park Compared to another Sometimes, depending on the way the flippers are It's hard to flick them But on ones that you can flick pretty easily like this one you you kind of just like are holding the flipper button in and then you just do like without fully taking your finger off the flipper you just do like a quick like flick and then you could you know do trial and error and mess around with different like you know amounts that you're pressing in the button and stuff and it's really just like once you get the feel for it you'll be able to do it more consistently it's awesome are you are i I mean, you've probably done it so much, you know, kind of what angles to look for. Is it just practice on figuring out when it's an appropriate time to do it? Because I know if you're just starting out, you might end up doing not a panic flip, but it'll end up rainbowing to the out lane instead of doing a nice little slow flick down. Is it just practice that you've sort of figured out the angles, or you kind of know every time it hits this part of the flipper, I'm going to do it there? yeah and you you have to wait like until the ball is at a certain spot on like the tip of the flipper to flick it over okay i mean there's different types of flicks like you know there's you know the ostermeyer maneuver where you you do like an earlier flick so that you you keep the ball trapped on that same flipper stops the momentum entirely um but sometimes yeah that flick and it even happens to me once in a while it can get you into trouble if you if you over flick and then you could lob the ball into the out lane or something. So you really know what you're doing when you go for those micro flicks. Awesome. So your ball three right there, really well done. You're at 505,000 based on just shatting and the traditional way that everybody used to play this was, at least as far as I know, getting to multi-ball ripping a spinner and here we are learning hey wait a minute you can actually uh demolish this by just uh lighting that in lane for 3k and going up and down and getting 15 you know 9 to 15k every time so vigo's gonna step up um are you feeling comfortable with this uh score at this point uh i'm never really comfortable playing with these guys um comfortable for loaded terms. Because once you start feeling comfortable, and then they'll come back and beat you anyway. Because I've learned from experience, for example, when ZMAC had that comeback, multiple comebacks this year, you can't beat them ever, no matter what you put up. That's why you just got to keep going forever, and just keep grinding until you just blow it up entirely. That's true. In my head, I always know every one of these guys could easily do what I just did, so I've got to keep pressing. Nice, yeah. Maybe comfortable is the wrong word. How are you feeling about your score at this time? You're like, you know what, I've done what I can? Yeah, I felt pretty satisfied. Okay. Because, like, that last shot, they weren't up and around or whatever, so I knew I did what I could do. You know, once you're satisfied with how you played, then you're much more accepting of whatever outcome happens. Yeah, exactly. So Vigo's going to the chat strategy. He only has two stand-ups lit, so he was doing it while it was unlit. And he's hit, right here, he's hit a couple rebounds where I thought it would hit that last one that he needed, which is the middle stand-up, but it didn't. He ended up nailing it off a, there it is, off the left flipper forehand shot. So he started his 3,000 in lanes at 222,000. So he needed 280K in in lanes to pass you. But honestly, that's not that far off with that right. Like you said before, that right in lane was so friendly.
    63:50
    And if you couldn't get it over to like right here, he had a good groove going. And he's already at 244 now, so he had like 22. So he was trying the shots to the left. Unfortunately, he missed it. It goes out of the left out lane. And you end up taking game one. So 1-1, you take Firepower, and you guys are now headed to the next one, which was Indy 500. What are your thoughts on Firepower? Are you just happy that it was over, or do you want to play it six more times, five more times? Obviously, if I could choose it, I would choose it multiple times, but no, I was satisfied with that result. Yeah, nice. Really good game. Again, if you're watching this Please go to YouTube or Spotify And check out the shafting If you want to see a clinic put on by Jason and Vigo In shafting and learn a new firepower strategy Like we all did Even Jason learned it before the third of it So please go watch this So we're at Indy 500 This was Vigo's pick?
    64:52
    Yes, that was Vigo's pick But I chose to go first Because I wanted to, you know Get it while the flippers were still out of the game A lot of, I guess. And so what can you tell us about Indy 500? I know a lot of people know you go up the left orbit, hit off the upper right flipper to get to the loop combo, plus your lock shot is on that saucer in the center. But what's your strategy on Indy 500?
    65:17
    Yeah, just keep multiballing out. That's my main strat. And then if you happen to see 3X, you know, there's all those modes in the middle of the light up 3X, and you're on the left flipper, you might as well take the right orbit to start 3x playfield. And then even better if you get that multiball going. But, yeah, even just like the turbo combos, you know, the loop combos at 3x are huge anyways. And is the 3x random?
    65:43
    I think, I don't know exactly how the modes light up. Maybe like a certain number of ramps like alternates it. So the right orbit are your modes. Obviously in the center of the playfield there's a track and they're lit up. So all those little flags are your modes And you start it through the right orbit Yeah, mode start is right orbit And then maybe The ramps or just the right ramp Change the mode that's lit Did you mention the Last game Had a pretty tight tilt, how was this game set up?
    66:14
    I think it was pretty reasonable I mean it was steep so sometimes Those flippers wouldn't have enough juice At least the right flipper wouldn't always Go around the left ramp But I think it played pretty reasonable Sometimes, though, I will say when I was in the left orbit, it would come around so fast and it would rattle a little bit and, you know, change up the timing a bit. So that's part of why I miss some of those loop combos.
    66:39
    How do you qualify the modes? Do they just qualify it automatically? I'm not sure they might, but I could be wrong. And when you're in multiball, what are you, are your jackpots are left and right ramp, correct? yep just left right left right and then if you you know it's a three ball multi-ball so if you lock one ball in the turbo while that's locked for however many seconds the jackpot value is increased uh by 10 mil i think okay and then if you lock a second one and it's increased by another 10 mil but if you lock the third one you get the super and they all you know they all release but that's another way you can get in at a ball if if you're down to like two balls and you lock both of them in the turbo, then you get a third ball in play. So there's some nuances to the strat that you might want to do.
    67:27
    Okay, and your super is you've got to get two balls into the turbo shot and then hit the, or you have to collect the... I think it's all three. Okay. Once you get the third one, it gives the super. But if you get two and, you know, you only have two balls in play, then it'll kick out the third one for you to either grind more jackpots during that timer or just collect the super. And you qualify locks by just hitting the saucer Or hitting the, you have to hit the left orbit So for the first month You've always said on easy, so you just have to Get in the turbo twice And then eventually you have to shoot the left orbit Either once or more times to Qualify the lock So thank you for The explanation, so we're going to watch your Ball one here, there's a skill that I think Is really good for people to learn And Eric mentioned it In the commentary as well as Jeff Teal So here comes your ball one. It's going to come over.
    68:20
    I think it's when it comes from the right. Or actually, it was right there. So the bump over, or when you're pushing it, it's kind of like it's dead bouncing, and then you're giving it a little more oomph, so to speak. Is that something? I see you do it a lot. Is that like a favorite skill of yours or where you're like just moving the pin forward just a little to get it over to the other flipper? Can you explain that to us? Sometimes if it's not going to go over, you might want to assist it. I do that sometimes, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I know. I think Z-Mac probably would as well because he's like one of the most, you know, bounce passer players that there is.
    69:01
    Okay, that's what it's called. Come on, not the Z-Mac bump. Yep, the Z-Mac bump. Yep. Nice. I like doing them as well. They're fun. Yeah, it's a really cool skill to watch because you see yourself moving it. As a viewer, you're watching you move it, and I'm like, okay, that ball wouldn't have got there had he not given it enough force to bounce past it over. I really like that. So your ball won. You chose to go first. It wasn't very eventful. 6 million, 6.3 million. You had a brick shot from the right and went straight down the middle. So now your ball two, you hit your loop combo for 10 million, locked your ball one. You missed the second loop combo, but you ended up repeating the shot to get your multi-ball start. So it was uneasy. You only had to lock two, and then when you plunge, you start your multi-ball.
    69:50
    And then you get your ball locked in that Vuck up top, turbo bobby as they were calling it. You get two consecutive jackpots, 30 and 32 mil. What kind of score were you looking for? Did you have sort of a threshold you'd seen in qualifying that was sort of holding up?
    70:07
    Well, I mean, this was the second time in a row, second match that I played this, because I played it against Arvid, and he got over a bill. So I guess that was probably my main milestone was break a bill because I'm playing big O. He could easily do the same. So, and, you know, I mean, I'm always just going for the highest possible score, of course, but a bill would have probably been what I was thinking. Do you have any goals for you, like ball to ball? Are you saying, well, ball one, if I can at least get one locked, I'm good to go. Or for this, are you just like, you know, just get to the multi-ball as fast as I can on every single ball? I like playing out the multiballs They're really fun on this game when you get it going So that was a mean goal Just get into multiball pretty often And then maybe bring in the 3x Or something like that and then also there's another Side multiball I don't know how It lights but eventually if you shoot the right ramp It'll start like a 2 ball multiball I think it's the turbo boost Or something And that could be pretty lucrative Yeah so here you're ball 2 you were down to 2 ball Multiball after one went straight down the middle but you got another two jackpots for 44 and 46 million respectively, end up with 286 million, which coming from a 6 million ball one, great ball. Like, how are you feeling after ball two?
    71:25
    I'm just not feeling the best. You know, it was not the worst thing because I still had one more ball, but it didn't end up going ideally. Yeah, so you had your 3X qualified here, And It looks like you were going for your loop combos There's the bump over at the ski pass And there's one And then it just It wasn't like The timing like you said Seemed a little off there Because you had It looks like three shots at it And then it just wouldn't Wouldn't kind of Settle to where you needed to go And then it went to the right out lane But you know you had the 3x You had it There for you so That's all you can ask for and then It's up to the player then to make the shot So you finish with 333 million Not a terrible score By any means And then are you watching Vigo when he Comes up or are you Away Yeah I was watching So we're going to watch this ball one This was an amazing ball one So you're probably guessing what happened here What were you thinking when he started His Multi-ball You're just like uh oh He's in the zone I assumed he was going to catch me pretty easily Like 300 is Not much to catch anyway so I wasn't like Holding my breath I'm like he'll probably Get me it's not too big a deal Alright so we're going to watch We're going to play this footage because we were talking about this Earlier about some of the skills That everybody these kids have And yourself included I'm going to play the footage and we're going to watch this Vigo Tap Pass On the modern so here we go I've never known you Do it You should see me on TV I'm always talking about There's one Look at it It was one of the best Games of this era That you could tap pass on Yeah it was crazy Like any Valley Williams games And even like sometimes on the newer games You can as well I'm going to watch that one more time And this time So it's coming, it's going to shoot out from The plunger I'm always talking about Dogs and whatever It's crazy It's one of the It might be the most aesthetically pleasing Skill to see It really is He was letting the balls drain during the multi-ball start Do you know what that's about? Just getting an easier shot on the left ramp I actually wasn't doing that But usually what you can do, like, sometimes what the kids will do is you'll tap-ass, like, multiple of them to the left flipper, or, I don't know, there's, like, a certain sequence, but... And then just get a clean shot at the ramp, that's probably what he's doing. Yeah, because they were saying on commentary, too, during the start of these multiballs, he would just let, like, one or two drain, and then take his shot. So he had his first multiball, he ends with 71 million, gets his loop combo with 14 and 16. He's at 108. He starts his second multi-ball at 108 million, as you can see the footage here. It was just going his way on ball one. So they hit the fireworks. He hit a super for 56 million. He got his third ball back because both balls were in that turbo shot, and he ends up passing you on ball one. With the That was well done Yeah that was a great ball I mean that's a Indy is always fun to watch especially when players Are in the groove Unfortunately you don't want to be on the opposite side of it But still a fun game to watch It's now 2-1 And we go to your pick Demolition Man Correct?
    75:20
    Yep Alright so we're going to raise the footage over here To Demolition Man we saw this In InDisc right? as well?
    75:30
    I don't think Indus, but I'm trying to remember. I know that at the Delaware Pinball Collective, they have one, which I really love Demoman, but I would like to see more tournaments, honestly. Are you a trigger guy?
    75:46
    So, not really, but there is a way that you can get cheap points. If you are motivated to get an extra million per combo without playing with triggers, you'll shoot a combo and then you'll trick the game by pressing the trigger right before it registers it and then it'll give you the combo points. It's just a mill, but it could add up, I guess, if you do it for a while. I don't solely play with the triggers, though. Yeah, I apologize. I think it was Johnny Mnemonic at Indus. I'm thinking of the last bag. So for Demoman, you want to tell us what your strategy is, what you know about it? yeah I mean there's you know a couple different ways to get a multiball I really just the first thing I want to do is just get into that first multiball ASAP and get some points from that and then you could the cool thing about this game is you can choose when you want to the light multiball flaw award because what that does is it spots you all of your quick freezes at once So there is some planning you can do The other, you know, the way you light your flaw is by completing the top lanes And the way you light your quick freezes is getting all the five white stand-up targets That lights your quick freeze Once you get enough, you'll light the, it's, you know, multiball stuff It's really all about multiballs this game And then also you could get like computer rewards Buy enough combos Those could get pretty good too So your quick, your, are the flashing red shots Are those your freeze shots? The white stand-ups were to light your quick freeze. So what are the flashing red shots? Just the start of your combo shots? Yeah, those are just combos. The red shots, unless you're in a mode, they're usually just combo points. Okay, and how do you start your modes? Is that just the...
    77:40
    It's just the claw awards. Okay. You can select. There's a few modes to choose from. And there's other side modes, but I don't really pay attention to those. How did this play? Were you happy with, you know, the flipper strength, tilt, all that?
    77:54
    Yeah, I liked the way this one played. Nice. And this one, it looks like Vigo chose to go first based on the commentary. It looks like, yeah, so, you know, they have triggers that you can get extra points for. I remember seeing Andrew Foster play this at Yagpin last year, I feel like, and he was just comboing out. It was that center shot, and then use the upper flipper to the right, that right, like, scoop or whatever it is down there. Have you ever just comboed out, or are you just going for multi-ball? I do sometimes. I mean, it really just depends on if you could, you know, every time you get it in the right end lane, if you could pass it back to the left flipper. I mean, you can try backhanding the middle shot, but that can be a little bit tricky. But, yeah, combos is another good strat for sure because then eventually, and there's one computer award that lights one of your multiballs because it spots, it gives you max quick freezes. And another computer award is great is collect bonus. And I don't know if it's based on the ROM, if it was like a fixed order of what the award, it probably was, but, yeah, combos is a great strat as well. Yeah, this was interesting because So Vigo steps up And he was going for his Light free shot But he had the forehand and missed it It went to the right out lane So he had a really quick ball, it was only 2.7 million And when you step up You actually get an award that they noted On stream, it was like the bonus Hold right away And that can be huge because Bonus is big in this, correct?
    79:33
    Oh yeah, it can be huge 5x and you got a ton of combos yeah the way I got that there's a scoop like above the middle shot like that the ball goes into when you shoot the left orbit you know when your multi ball is lit but if you happen if it accidentally bounces in there from like a center shot that usually I think will give you the bonus hold award and I happened to get lucky with that which was nice. That's awesome yeah especially on ball one it's like alright I'll take that I can build things up here yep Joe, have you played a lot of Demoman and Turneys?
    80:09
    It's been a little while I used to have one on location near me But I don't think I've really played it Very recently If you like using triggers, it's pretty fun It is, right?
    80:22
    Who does it like Luke does it a lot? Someone does it a lot I'm just the hell of it I don't know Maybe it's a smaller tournament, why not?
    80:32
    It's a totally different feeling It really is And the timing is just like I don't know, I feel a little younger and quicker With my high hand motivation I'm not a big gun guy So like pulling the trigger, I'm like, ah, gotta get it Alright, so you're in Fortress Multiball That's the first one, and you're already at $366 million You're obviously happy to be in it Just like you said, because you want to get to that first Multiball And why do you want to get to the first Multiball In Ball 1? Was there a strategic reason? I kind of just want to get it out of the way Because the second one is Really good Because all the shots are lit for jackpots And then eventually If you get to like the third and fourth Multi-ball And yeah the fourth multi-ball is cryo prison And that could be massive points You could get like hundreds of mils for supers And stuff so that's kind of like the end goal And then of course after you play the fourth Multi-ball the right ramp will be lit for a demolition jackpot, which is huge points depending on how well you played your other, you know, first four multiballs. Gotcha. So, and then you just rinse and repeat after that. So that's pretty much what I was going for. Have you ever owned a Demoman or you just played it on location or in tournaments? We did for a short period of time many years ago, but I would really like to own one right now. It's one of my favorite games. It has such good flow once you get into it. And it's, yeah, it's a really good game. Yeah. Hey, it's a buyer's market right now. I'm sure you can buy it with very decent sales. So you're at your second. You qualified the second multi-ball museum, but you had an amazing ball one, $537 million. I'm assuming in your head you're pleased with this good start because you've got your second one ready, finished your first one, and it wasn't a bad one.
    82:22
    Yeah, I felt good here, for sure. So Vigo comes up And hoping to not repeat What happened in ball one And we're going to see here He goes half ramp And straight down the middle Nope, not that one, it was one of them It was a half, he had three half ramps Basically, yeah, very mean On a half ramp Are you expecting the drain, are you automatically Moving it on most pins Yeah, I mean Always expect the worst, you've got to be ready for this stuff to happen, to try to save it maybe, but I don't think that happened to me, luckily, during that particular game that we played, but half rounds can be done, but yeah, like that. So I want to ask about what's happening here. I'm going to let the audio play.
    83:11
    You're about to step up, and I think you found a friend on the play field. What's that? I don't know what... It wasn't a fly. It was like some small bug that was just hanging on the glass. I'm trying to get it off and it just wouldn't move. And then I opened the remote and was trying to mess with it. They were talking about it. They were like, oh, he's got a spider. He's trying to make a... This is going to be a new pet for all the tournaments. Yeah, that was pretty random. That was hilarious. Eventually it left. So we saved the bug as well. Yeah, you didn't kill it. Thank you for doing the humane thing. I didn't smash the glass, kill it.
    83:54
    That happened in another game. Yeah, it was like, it's just crazy. It's like, of all the things that could happen, you're always going to see something new at some tournament.
    84:03
    So... Right? That you would have smashed. Yep. So, you get into your museum multiball, as you can see here. You're already at 690 million. You have to hit every single one of these shots To get the super in museum right Yep So you hit each shot once and then I feel like sometimes it makes you shoot one of the Like maybe the side ramp I'm not sure though But eventually it'll just like the super at the right ramp And then just rinse repeat Shoot all the shots again And so I think at this point I mean you're You're at 726 And then you have a Sort of like It looked like a I don't want to say it was a double drain, but it like went out there. There's one that goes out there. I think it went out the right. And then the other one came straight down the middle, like almost at the same time. So good drop catch there. And then we'll get to it. There's your museum, 720. It comes about right here. But it goes, let's see, it's a flick up, flick to the right. And then it's coming, I promise. I might have rewinded it too much but it was like right down the middle there and then it's coming out of the left I forgot what that's the eye or the captive ball shot and then it goes down again oh the retina scan excuse me that was that's your captive ball that has a hurry up and then it where was the drain here maybe I have this mistaken I feel like it was oh you're already at the hurry up on your explode shot So you were at 751 here You ended museum at 736 So just about 200 million And then you Exit it and then it Half ramp something happens around Here oh you shot the claw and you pick ACMAG That what it was I apologize Why did you choose ACMAG on the claw
    86:01
    Because it's just you shoot the middle all day, and that's kind of what I was doing already with, like, getting combos. So I thought it's a good stack, I guess. Okay. Yeah, so by the time you're done with ACMAG, I don't think it was a very long ACMAG, But you shoot the center ramp and it builds up that value Or is that value just automatically That bar keep going up I think it does it on its own Does it on its own okay Yeah so it was during ACMAG I think you had You had about 200 million And you can see your value Does ACMAG end after a certain amount of shots Or does it just keep going I'm not sure actually I don't really pay attention to the modes from the stadium. I'm with multi-balls. That's all I'm focused on. Gotcha, yeah. So I think it was right here. It was straight down the middle from a miss or a rebound off the center. Sorry, I thought for some reason I thought it was a double drain on the multi-ball. But anyways, 938 after ACMAG. Your opponent has 11 million going into ball three. Same strategy, multi-ball? Thinking about multi-ball? Hoping he doesn't get a huge one?
    87:09
    I felt pretty good, but But, you know, he had a lot of grinding ahead of him. And then he would have to point press even more even if he did get to, like, a billion. So I felt pretty good here.
    87:22
    Yeah. I think it ended kind of quickly for him, but I wasn't watching. It did. He started his fortress. He didn't get the super, and then, like, it drains. He ends up with $144 million, so it's going to end soon here. So he's bouncing around. Again, he's got a, it goes out the right And then it goes out the left It was kind of nasty How it ended right there Because he had a lot of work to do So you get the walk off But now again, we're 2-2 Thoughts on Demoman?
    87:55
    I was very happy with that I think I played pretty well on that And I love that game in general Yeah, and so now you're on to the moderns, right?
    88:05
    Yep This was Vigo's pick, Jaws Pro? Yeah, that was his pick How comfortable were you on this Jaws? Well, Jaws in general, I'm very comfortable This one was very brutal So, that was like one of the first games I played Like during a practice session, like on the first day And yeah, it was not easy Because also, the big thing, the big annoyance for me at least when you hold the ball on the mini-flipper on the right and you let it go, on normal jaws, it would just go down the right in-lane and you'd be fine. But on this one, they removed the upper in-lane, out-lane post and it would bounce very frequently into the right out-lane if you let the ball drop down there. And not to mention, they removed the rubber off of the post that you save the ball with when it comes down the right outline. So that was a really, really sketch area. That's crazy. That's insanely mean because you're hoping for that safe feed from that upper mini flipper, especially when you're using flip lock and you're trying to – because shooting it into those stand-ups on the left for your fish finder awards, like, it's not safe. It gets going all over the place.
    89:26
    What was your strategy on this Jaws? What's your strategy on Jaws in general? For people that don't know, you hit the shark a few times to start your mode, and then each mode is one of the shots left to right. Scars is the middle one, which most people take if there's no multiball going. What are you going for on this?
    89:46
    Yeah, usually I just start with Scars in the beginning. I kind of just want to do that in single ball play because, you know, you don't want it in multiball because every stand-up you hit lowers the shot values. So I kind of just wanted to try to complete that And then get the chum line going Because eventually I want to have my next mode Lit for when multiball is lit So then I wanted a better mode to bring into multiball So that's like The beginning part of my game at least Nice Did you see any Bar advancement Later in qualifying Or in the playoffs On this Jaws like did anybody get to, I won't say 4th of July, maybe search or rescue?
    90:28
    I have no idea. I didn't even play a qualifying once. This was the first time I played it. Oh, yeah.
    90:35
    So, at least I had the 30 seconds practice right before it. I was going to say, how did you, did you get much practice or just that time right there? Not much, just like the first time originally and then right before I played it here. Gotcha. Did you know about the ball on the upper flipper dropping into the out lane? Yeah, I'm going to make the first day. When I saw that right out lane, I was terrified of that. Not to mention the tilt was pretty tight on this one, so you can't really do much.
    91:05
    Yeah, this one, it looks tough as it is. So we're on Vigo's ball one. I'm going to play the audio here because there's a good move he makes there. Okay, so that fit was lit from the left out lane. Predicted the trajectory. Yeah, boom, right there. Yeah, see, I feel like one of the worst ways to train is the in-lane to out-lane because you're like, it's supposed to be safe. It's, you know, it's within two pieces of metal or plastic. And that was just such a good move. I'm going to watch it one more time because it was just so, so nice. I'll let the audio play. The fin is going to be lit for what they call a counter jackpot. And that is. So it's coming over here from the right. Oh, he got it already. Okay. So that's going to go. I think it's after this shot right here Yeah it was like a power Reverse in lane And then he did such a good preemptive It was so preemptive though He instinctively knew that it was Going to drain so he just didn't Chance it and he just got the hell Out of that area right before it even happened And I feel like that's such a Skill you have to learn about Predicting angles and when you Have to make your big move Not only do you have to know how big of a move you need to make based on sensitivity of the tilt-bob and maybe getting some debounce or whatever you can, but then you also have to figure out, all right, what are the angles where I'm going to be in that danger? That was such a, I don't want to cliche and say pro move, but, man, that seemed really advanced.
    92:40
    And you really have to read the ball well in those situations, and he did, so props to him for that. That was a great move. Do you have any transferable skills from bowling that help you read the ball? or is that, or vice versa? Is pinball helping your bowling as well? I mean, I mentioned earlier that it's like the same kind of idea of like, once you lock in the perfect shot, it's just all about repetition and consistency. And there's a lot of that in pinball as well. I'm pretty new to bowling. Like that was my first year at the club. So I do plan on doing it more. It is a lot of fun. It is. Yeah. I love seeing the, when people like ride the edge and it's got so much spin. I mean, I'm a, I'm going to throw it up in the middle kind of guy. But I love watching people get that crazy spin on it. So Vigo's ball won pretty solid, 92 million. What were you thinking seeing his score going in?
    93:34
    I wasn't really thinking about his score much because, you know, it's not the biggest score, but it is pretty good with the way this one was playing. So I just wanted to put up something in a mode or two. And then even if I had to, like, I ended up grinding a multiball. So there are so many ways. That's why it's such a good game. There's so many ways to just grind out a good score on this game. What is your favorite Elwin? AIQ?
    94:02
    Oh, I mean, I'm really comfortable in that in tournaments especially. I really love Godzilla as well. And that's, like, everywhere. It's a really good game. I'm fine with all of them pretty much Jurassic Park Has been consistently one of my favorite games For years now We have one here And also we have Iron Maiden Great game And what else Jaws and now Kong I've played Kong I think that game is really cool I feel like Heath's games are I don't know they're just really comfortable Very compatible with me I think the transferable the transfer of tournament players to designing and coding games really shines and that's why they become people's favorites from Keith to Rayday on code, Lyman his code on Walking Dead is my favorite and they were all great players they're all great players so there's something to be said about having somebody that kind of understands where the shots need to go, what the software needs to tell you to do and those guys really, really have a knack for it. So your ball one, unfortunately, you got the short plunge, no skill shot, a big move off the sling to hit the left out lane, and that was 831,000. So a very forgettable ball one, but, again, it's not an easy Jaws, and you've got two other balls. If you have a quick ball one, are you thinking now focus on the multiball or just stick with the strategy of modes, then hopefully multiball?
    95:38
    I was just sticking with my current plan. And it was just like same situation minus a ball, really. That's what I was doing in that case. Yeah. So they are checking something here. And then, oh, yeah. So what happened with the Jaws? Do you remember? They were like, oh, you know what? I remember the left switch. So Vigo, that's what it was. He hit the, he had his multiball prepped, and he hit the left loop, and it didn't, and it went down. and that was lit to get the up post so he could attack the fin or whatever it was, and it didn't register. So I think this is what they were checking, correct?
    96:16
    Yeah, I think so. I think, yeah, the left orbit, I think when his multiball was lit, yeah, it just didn't register at all. Yeah, I was kind of, I was like, oh, man, he got screwed again because after it happened, he, like, where's his, so he shoots it, and then it, like, yeah, so I think this was, it was ready for him, And he had that shot dialed down And it's eventually going to get there Let's see if it hits So here it is, he's ready for it And then it goes up, he's like wait a minute It didn't stop it And then he ended up going straight down the middle He's like, yep, they need to figure Oh man Yeah, it was my mistake Oh, that's unfortunate Yeah, it was like he snaked it First he had the firepower sling tilt And then he had the up post not coming up Or registering, so So I'm glad they took it. You have to always assume that things like that can happen with pinball because they do happen.
    97:11
    And you really have to be good at recovering from those crazy situations. Like, again, you've got to reset because if you don't, it might happen more or you just might play worse. So you really have to be ready for that. Exactly. Because he played great right after that happened on the next ball. Exactly. He had everything set up for him. and his ball, too, was just really masterful, a good primer on what to see in Jaws. He got to his multi-ball, really solid, really solid ball. He got the quick shot, started bashing the chum bucket, got his out-of-ball, stacked night swim at the same time. One ball went out the right, out laying off the right plastic rebound. The other ball went straight down the middle after a missed center ramp shot.
    97:59
    You can see him. He's in night swim right now. He's already at 157 million His life ring was ready He closed the beach on the right I love that about this game, closing the beaches Just because it's another thing you can go for And you don't have to worry about just sticking with modes And multi-ball Because I saw Escher at APA last year He had the machete ready And his beach was ready to be closed He's like, alright, shoot this Get the machete 4x And then close the beach And you'll get that 4x multiplied value It's just a great pin I think you've said it I've said it perfectly, there's a lot to do You see right there, he had $90 million on Night Swim So he's going into His ball three sitting at $214 million You start super life rig mode I think that's one of the best ones What are your thoughts on the fish finder? I see how you can also machete it sometimes Because I can get pretty big Yeah, it can get nutty And if you're in a multi ball, it's even better because then you've got multiple chances at maybe a rebound hitting it because it starts at 10.
    99:04
    And, yeah, it just keeps going up. So you got up to $20 million on the life ring. You ended up with about $53 million. And then you started scars smartly without multiball.
    99:18
    And where were you here? So you got a few scar shots in a row. And then you hit the fin. But, unfortunately, we'll see it here. This is why you need gear in this game. You need the one piece of gear that everybody needs right here. So here's your shot. Boom.
    99:35
    Yeah, having the shark cage to get a ball save after the fin shot. It's a great mechanic. I love that they added that as far as the fin moving. And then also potentially needing that shark cage gear so that in case you do get one of those right back atches, you get the ball back.
    99:59
    89 million, ball two. Here we go, ball three. This one is quick for Vigo. Yeah, it's right here. He's somewhere here. There's the footage. He ends with 225 million. You can see he's at 214 right now, and it just doesn't really work out for him. We'll watch it. It was like a quick rebound to the right out lane. But have you played at the LPA before?
    100:29
    I have not. I have actually never been to Sweden. Gotcha. Yeah. Is that where Worlds are being held next year? Do you know?
    100:37
    That's what I've heard. I think, yeah, two years from now when it's in Europe, I have heard it might be at LPA, which would be really cool. I would be excited for that. Definitely. I think next year I've heard it might be at D82 in Wisconsin. Oh. That would be very interesting If that's true I heard that too That was the I was going to say How was the venue here This year in Austria I heard there was no AC Oh yeah It did get pretty warm They had like a lot of fans Throughout the place Just had to get used to it really But It was a really nice venue I really liked the way The games played for the most part And Everyone there was really great I loved it It was a great time I see you got a little portable fan, Hoddy. Oh, yeah, sorry. I was going to say, you guys need to get one of these portable fans.
    101:37
    Yeah, see, there you go for Pinberg coming up, because with double the amount of players, it's going to get hot, I bet. So we'll see. We'll see. Yeah, you're ball three here, so we're getting ready on Jaws. You had a double danger pretty quickly on this.
    101:54
    I think it was just the way the ball was moving. You made a really good move to save it. But you start raft attack. You qualified your Jaws multi-ball. You had to hit the fin again a little too early. But you did get, I think there's a setting on Jaws where in competition, like you have to hit the life ring at the right time versus normally when you get a little bit of grace. Did you see that? Any chance? Yeah, I think there's a small grace with the life ring Okay But it's really, it's nice when you're in the super life ring The first time you hit the target It just instantly gives you the life ring That's awesome So You are in your Jaws Multiball Part 1 You've grinded it out to about 144 million Get a straight down the middle there During it, but Really good, really good work here to kind of sort of get as much clawback as you can because raft attack was a solid mode for you ending at $120 million. But I think you go to qualify the last beach goer here on the left. There was a fin shot there a little too early. And you can see flipping the ball from the upper flipper smartly and not letting it go out. But do you remember much about this ball three?
    103:17
    Yeah. I was going for the quick shots, I think, because I wanted some gear. Because every time you collect it, it lights a gear for you. So I think that's what I was doing at this point in the game. But I could have also just gone for another mode, and then maybe if I had a decent machete, that easily could have been enough to catch him. But it didn't end up working out, unfortunately. Yeah, you ended up hitting the stand-up to qualify that last beat score, and those can be solid points, especially if you have a machete ready. But you end up with 154 million So Vigo takes this one So you guys are just trading blows How is your If you can remember How is your physical fatigue at the point Are you still energized And on adrenaline Or are you thinking you're a little tired Or what not I'll be entirely honest I don't know how I lasted As long as I did that day Because it was insanely exhausting By the end of it, I was totally I mean, I was super excited after I won it But, I mean Especially in that last match It was a lot of effort That I had to put in A lot of energy Adrenaline, that was probably Why I was still going But yeah I don't know how you guys do it, man It's a lot What was the time difference? Were you When you were over there Were we, you were like six hours ahead, six hours behind, something like that? Yeah, I think six hours ahead. Okay, nice. Okay, so we are going to the next game, 3-2. So if Vigor wins this, he wins it all, correct?
    104:54
    Yep. They were observing in the chat while I was watching on stream that you guys were playing on serves and no one had lost a match that you had picked yet.
    105:08
    Mm-hmm. Yeah, this was like the most staggered Like, back and forth Match of the day, and Maybe ever, head to head And it was crazy, like Every other game, one of us won He won It was very intense So we get up to Kiss This looks like an L.E., right?
    105:31
    I don't think so Because I think that L.E. with the love gun When you shoot the right ramp, I think it like diverts it into that love gun area. Gotcha. Okay, I see this plaque on it. I was like, oh, that looks like an LE plaque, but I definitely could be wrong. So why did you choose Kiss?
    105:46
    I love this game. It's like the same people as Aerosmith. We actually own an Aerosmith here, but I really like the flow on it. It's pretty simple. You just get into a good mode and then get into love gun multiball, and then you're just jamming out on shots pretty much. What mode is it? I qualified twice, I think, and I did really well in it, so I chose it as my go-to pick for the new era in finals. What mode are you choosing normally when you get a chance to?
    106:18
    Usually I start with deuce. I think I just do that because that's what everyone does, but I think it's like two shots that are moving around, and then it's pretty simple to complete. And the thing is you want to complete the modes in this game because you get a playfield multiplier every time you do. So first, you know, if you complete a mode, you get 2x, and then the next one you're at 3x, then the next one's 6x, I believe. Could be wrong, but the thing is it's tough because if you use the ball, it resets all of your playfield multipliers. But, you know, ideally you want to get, like, you know, complete a mode or something and then start another good mode and then start a playfield multiplier, and that's when the points could get huge, you know, your comboing shots.
    107:04
    That's awesome. So how do you start love gun multiball for people that don't know? So it's a shot that Viggo just shot from the right flipper. It's, like, it's to the very right of those left pop bumpers. You get it. Yeah, that shot right there. Got it. The smart child shot. And eventually there's, like, slingshots up there. If you get enough hits, it'll eventually light the right ramp to start love gun multiball and then just get that. So the giant demon head, the stand-ups with the locks around it, you're not going for that normally, correct? Nope. I did not even try for that. And, like, the kick-out being sketched a lot of the time. I know we'll get to that on Vault 3, but, yeah, I wasn't even trying for the demon.
    107:46
    Yeah, that's why I brought it up, because Eric was flabbergasted of why you were shooting near that area. But we're watching Vigo right now, and he starts his love gun. He locked in. So there's a hurry up value too when you start Love Gun, correct? So you've got to shoot it back in the same area to lock it in? Yeah, as soon as you shoot the right ramp and it starts the multi-ball, you have to, it starts, I forget the value, but you have to lock in a high, maybe it's a million it starts at, and then you just shoot the star child shot, and then it locks in the hurry up, and then that's the value of all your jackpots for that multi-ball. Okay, so Vigo, solid ball one, $32 million. Did you get to play this before in any of the qualifying or playoffs? yeah yeah so I think I played it maybe twice in qualifying I think the first time um I got like a little maybe 900 something and then the second time I played it that might have been actually in the tiebreaker for a double buy after qualifying ended I played it against Zmack and Kaylee and someone else but yeah that I did well on it that time as well so I was consistently doing well on this game. So I like the way it played. I think you do because I feel like at Papa you set a nice high score on the one at Interium, right?
    109:04
    Oh yeah, that was for fun in the free play area. Ridiculous because if you get to like 6x playfield or max playfield and you get into that super wizard mode, if you're comboing shots because every time you combo it's 2x for the second shot. So all the shots you're building the value of like the ultimate super And then eventually if you like Shoot the middle ramp combo into the demon For the big super it's billions I don't even know where it comes from But that compared to the rest Of the scoring on that game is insane So I had like billions on that game I think maybe over $10 or something Yeah I saw a picture of it I was like oh I'm going to ask him about that That score because That was not my game plan for this though Because I mean you'd have to grind Every single mode and then do other things I was just trying to get good value out of basic mode multi-ball stacks in this competition. Yeah, so we just saw your ball one on the footage there. You had some love gun prep. You had a right orbit shot. Unfortunately, it went to the right out lane, so 3.4 million. Vigo is coming up. He's going to make a big move and get two dangers. He's holding up right there because he just made it. I think we'll see it. Sorry, it's going to come up soon. But he had to make the move for, you know, to keep – You want to make the move. If you're watching this and you're new to pinball, you want to move the machine because it's better to at least potentially get a tilt versus watching the ball go out. You've got to give yourself that chance. And I think a lot of people get scared to move the pin. I know I do because I'm like, well, I don't want to give away my bonus. But then my bonus is like $1,000. So, you know, just give it away and save the ball. But he had his love gun ready again. He started his love gun the second time with the 2X play field. There's his move right there. Boom. Really nice because he moved in And it went in lane to out lane again But cradled right back on the left flipper So He sacrificed the camera in the streaming room Which was worth it Sorry JBL And sorry Tom and Carl in the future Your rig is not as important as the As the save When you have a physical sport like pinball And you have to measure in those cases Yeah that was the right move Good move Exactly, and so during his love gun, we'll get to it here I think he was trying to separate a cradle separation What are you doing on cradle separation? Are you always like lightly pressing the flipper so that it doesn't go all over the place Or sometimes it's just situational where you're like, you know what, I got to break everything up Yeah, usually you kind of just want to flick one up and then have it collide You know, it goes on to the same and it collides into the one that's cradle and then pass it over to the other flipper.
    111:48
    Usually I don't want the chaos of both of them going out of control, but there's all different patterns of, like, cradle separations. And sometimes there's another cool one where you could do, like, you flick one up and then you post-pass the other, like, up and over.
    112:02
    Or over-under, I think. There's two different types. Yeah. That one. Yeah. I forget, but, yeah, there's a lot of cool post-pass maneuvers. That's awesome. Yeah, so he tried to separate. He lost partially both of them, and then I think it comes down. Scott shoots Love Gun again to start it, or at least prep it, and then it rattles out and goes to the right outline. But he's at $53 million. So I'm going to ask about a move you make at $233 here. So you're up. I don't know where it comes from, but I think it's such a cool move that we see here. So I'm going to play it and let the audio play, and then you tell me. So you get the ball on the left, and you'll see what you do. We'll let it play for about 15 seconds. So it's going to come off the left, and it's at about 233.05. So it's coming up at about right here.
    112:56
    No, it's the next one, I think. I think it's like, yeah. So you drop. The ball will drop off your. Drops, and then you bump it over. I just think that's such a cool move. I don't ever really do those, but I just saw, I don't know, I felt like I could in that case, so I just went with that, I think. Did you learn that just from somebody else? Because I've never seen someone have the ball roll up and say, you know what, I'm just going to let it drop and push it over.
    113:31
    I don't know. I don't know why that idea popped into my head at that time. I guess I was rushing, and I just wanted the ball on that right flipper in any way I could. So I'm like, let me just try this. There's ball saves.
    113:45
    Yeah, it was just... Yeah, here it is again. It's just going to hold up and say, drop and bump. I'm like, that looks like it's going down.
    113:57
    Yeah, that's a really cool move. Yeah, really cool move. Your love gun unfortunately ends at $5 million or so. You did start your next love gun multi-ball, Which is good because you had your 2x playfield going It was ready And you had a forehand shot to the scoop To get a new track I think here you shoot the left scoop to pick a new song Is that correct?
    114:24
    I'm not sure The left scoop was lit So you were at 5 million You end up with about Where are you here I think We're still in the second love gun. What's your score? I might have went back a little too much. Let me go up. Yeah, so you end up with $48 billion. I don't think I can get further back. Yeah, so your multiball will end here. It's coming up soon. But you're at about $17, but you were picking off these jackpots, which are really good value because I noticed you were at $17 there, and then you started hitting like two or three in a row, and it's double jackpot. So how do you get the double jackpot? I'll ask that.
    115:07
    So, I mean, there's multiple different, like, ways to multiply jackpots, one being just your plate field multipliers that you get from completing modes. And then the other way is, okay, so the double, I think, comes from the way the multi-ball works is all the shots are lit purple, and then when you shoot one shot, it locks in only that shot lit. And then the second time you shoot it, it's double points. So that's the double jackpot. But like I said, you can multiply that with playfield X And then if you combo it You know, combo into that It's also another 2x So this game is really Multiply heavy And if you stack a ton of multipliers onto these shots That's where the huge points come from Especially when you do it like For the super in Love Gun You get hundreds of mil for that Awesome, so I think this is the part right here Where you're There's a red flashing insert on the scoop And I didn't know why you were shooting that. I didn't know if you were trying to change the song or if that's the stuff. I was trying to go for a new song there. Gotcha. So, you're at $48 million. Again, you guys are closing here and you have to win this otherwise Vigo takes it. So, we're going to go to $238.45 because there's a really good move from Vigo here. I'm going to let the audio play and he is making a good shake right here. Yeah.
    116:28
    Uh-oh. Can I give that a try? Nice build. But the reaction. That was a lot of speed. Should be coming up soon. I might have went a little too far back.
    116:43
    Right there. Yeah. Crazy. All three of potentially the last game of this year. That's really impressive. Yeah, it reminded me of that first shimmy that he tried to make on Pharaoh, but this time it was more successful. So just a good move by him. But he has this, I mean, it's not the worst ball, but it's not the best ball. You know, 56 million, you're down by eight. Can you tell me? That's not what he wanted right there. Can you tell me in your head, were you watching him then or were you away?
    117:16
    I think on and off. I was like in another room, but yeah. That was huge for me. That was a huge opening. and this is as soon as he drained and I had like last I had to come up with a whole separate plan for what I needed to do on ball three because I was not going to grind all the way survive all those to start multiball because I don't need a ton of points I just need like sync mode points basically it would be enough in this case so I totally came up with a plan and ended up choosing you know rock and roll all night that song I like because You can, you know, the middle rank is already lit So that's a free shot And then it's all about combos It's kind of like Rats in the Cellar On Aerosmith So if you could get a couple of combos I would pretty much be there And have him But SCC, I went middle rank first there But man, that was crazy That in lane Yes This had to be maybe one of the Because it was points And I just wanted points at that moment. What were you going to say, Joe? Sorry, I was going to say, this is probably one of the biggest balls of the series, right? Just everything on the line. This was it. This was the tournament right here. I had it in my hands to survive, and he had it to win. So that was a huge momentum shifter. That could have won him the championship, but that was scary to play through, I'll say. I decided to So to answer the question, why I went for the scoot, the demon shot, was because I was more comfortable shooting that than the right ramp on the fly because you could be in just as much danger if you missed that right ramp, if you brick it or something. So I figured it's pretty easy for me to combo into the demon. I might as well just take it. So that's what I ended up doing. And thankfully I survived all those kickouts because that doesn't always happen. Yeah, I was going to ask because I note that In this mode You hit your center ramp, but it's not After you hit it, it's not lit Do you have to hit the demon mode then The demon to activate it again? Because then after you hit inside The demon, it lights up again, that center ramp Yes, the way it works is The shots Go from left to right, so you have like All the left side shots will be lit, and you shoot any of them Then it moves to all the right Shots being lit, so you have to go left, right, left, right, so that's why it's a pretty simple one. You could also do kind of like walk this way on Aerosmith, you just middle ramp, right ramp, middle ramp, and you're getting the double combo points every time, but I decided I was comfortable with the demon shot, so I went for it and just chanced it and got lucky, so. That was awesome, like, because everyone's like, well, maybe he'll prep Love Gun again, but then they saw Rock and Roll Night, they're like, okay, he's going up the middle, why is he going up the middle again? And it was probably to get, you know, get some better speed on the ball to hit into the demon while it was lit, then go back up because you're right. You only needed a few combo or the mode shots. You were only 8 million away, and it worked out. You ended up with the ball three win. Were you worried about that feed from the demon head? I know you said it was safer, but compared to, I guess, Love Gun, was it just you liked it more?
    120:38
    Oh, of course. I was afraid of it. I was definitely afraid of it. That would be the decider of my fate, basically. and how that returned. That's so crazy that you trusted the kick out because a lot of copies of Kiss, if you see them in the wild, they'll have like a short ball saver if you shoot that demon mouth because it's so dangerous. And like a lot of copies, they'll just shoot it straight down the middle. And like a ball ago, we even saw, you know, Viggo had to make a big move because of the kick out, like it was going straight down the middle. So just hearing you say that, like you were just like, I'm just going to go for it. That's insane, man.
    121:11
    Yeah, still a little surprised I did it, but just so happy it worked out. It was really crazy. So it's all tied up. What's going through your head? All right, just got a win too.
    121:23
    I felt amazing. I was still alive, and now we have best two out of three to play. Yeah, please late. Fresh air for me. Yeah, and was Jackbot your pick?
    121:34
    That was Viggo's. Viggo's, okay. Yeah, Jackbot was Viggo's. I forget why, but yeah. All right. So the next game, we're going to best of three now, is Jackbot. And here you are talking with Garrett and Jack. And what can you tell our lovely listeners and viewers about Jackbot? I know there's the short plunge where you don't qualify the play field. And the reason you do that is because?
    122:01
    So you just want to snipe the visor targets in the middle because in the beginning of the game, your short plunge, you get ball crate on the flipper ideally. And then there's a roving target And you want to time it And you want to shoot the roving target Because that brings down the entire visor And that exposes the two locks The left and right locks behind it And then you're in multiball So that's the ideal start to the game Yeah, and it's There's basically two thoughts on strategy here, right? If you're feeling comfortable with casino run You would shoot for that, correct? And that's on the left And you have to You have to play each game and you qualify each game by hitting the left ramp once, I believe, and then going back to it, or am I mistaken? Yeah, so the first one starts off lit at the game saucer just to the right of that left ramp. And once you get that, you'll just... So what you want to do, actually, is you can choose to either take the points that it gives you or double or nothing. And you want to do double because then it opens up the left ramp and when you shoot under it, it gives you the points And it lights the next game saucer Mode immediately So that's why Players will do that But yeah You can do that if you feel comfortable Of those two shots and if The feed from the game saucer is relatively Safe I forget how this one was but Yeah that's another thing you can do And there's no center post here So did you Play this at all during qualifying or playoffs or, um, I was going in cold to this jackpot. Okay. So do you normally choose the, uh, multiball strategy?
    123:45
    I like multiball and you really have to, to snipe your jackpots and that, because if you botch your multiballs, you really have like, it's only the first two multiballs that are pretty easy to start because if you don't get much value out of those first two, The third one you have to knock down the visor For each of the two locks And that's pretty risky Yeah I mean you can hit The right visor stand Ups and they can ricochet into the Top and then maybe you get A rebound off the left back to the right But you have to hit a lot of targets And it's dangerous And so So Which stand up are you Sniping for the visor skill shot to open it off one shot. The reason I ask is because I heard them talk about an interesting strategy where it's most people, I think, go obviously when it's vertical and it's moving left to right. But I heard them talk about going for the yellow one because there's nothing to the left of it. So if you miss the yellow one on the left, you're not hitting another potentially hitting another target and missing your chance. and then they also talked about the blue one because the only thing next to it is the yellow one and you may time it right where it doesn't matter if it's in between yellow and blue. Were you aiming for any specific stand-up up there?
    125:07
    Yeah, that's what I was actually considering before I went to play that. I do that sometimes on Pinbot and yeah, just for that reason that you mentioned because there's nothing. But the only problem is sometimes if you hit, like there's a rubber, like to the left of the game saucer and sometimes if you if you happen to miss that yellow target i feel like it's happened sometimes where it just ends up bouncing side targets and it ruins it but that's not the most common i think they ended up going for the blue one probably for you know the same reason that you just mentioned that it's like it's pretty easy shot yeah it feels like i feel like i've always thought about going for the center because you know center on most games you look at Jaws center ramp, things, he has to look going up the center. It feels comfortable. It feels like the easiest shot, but I feel like on this one, watching this footage and watching you and Vigo play and hearing the commentary, it was just like eye-opening, like, hey, there's nothing to the left of that yellow one. Yes, I could hit that rubber and it could be super dangerous off the rebound off the left where the game saucer is, but I don't know, man, it feels like a better chance at hitting it off. So the short plunge, obviously, so you don't validate the play feeling and get a shot at getting it back on the right flipper. I saw Vigo hit a few, like, bumpers. I was getting nervous for him because I didn't know if the ball save would still be active. Did you have any trepidation on it?
    126:33
    I think it got some good, clean short plunges. I might have botched it a couple times, but I just remember I struggled with that first multi-ball, which it'll show a bit. Yeah, so what happens when you start the multi-ball? I'm a little confused on this. So you start the multiball with both balls locked in the eye, and then is the first multiball a three-ball? They're all three balls, correct?
    127:00
    Yeah, I think the first one is only two. Two, okay. But the second and everything after the first one is three because, yeah, when you start the second one, it'll kick the ball into the plunger lane, the third ball. But for the first one, it just spits them right out of the two eyeballs. Okay, and can you relight your multiball Like creature, like hitting the snack bar If you lock, like let's say you lose one Do you have a set amount of time To shoot the visor to start a multiball Again, or are you done? Yeah, you can shoot either of the lock shots To restart, I think it's like 10 seconds I think I might have even done that for my Multiball Yeah, you lost one and then like So Vigo had his first ball, $276 million He went for the yellow Target that we were talking about for the stand-up, so I'm going to see if I can, I think he already did it here let me see if I can get to that footage right around here I think he'll short plunge it, maybe I can't because it's like, this file is so big that, okay, so here he goes, and he was waiting, waiting waiting, and I think he goes for the yellow one after they talk about it here, and here he goes, drops it, and boom, and they circle that rubber that you were talking about as well, but he ended up locking his second ball and he relocks it into the visor, quickly exit multi-ball. So he had to fill the grid again and he got a right sling to the left out lane for his troubles. But anyways, he finishes his ball one with $276 million. Now we feel like all of us have seen, it's a great tournament game. It's one of my favorites along with like Harlem Globetrotters. But I feel like you can see these scores on ball one being the billions because you get your jackpots or if you're in casino run, you getting to Casino Run you getting a lot of points up there as well So here your ball one You at about million You hit the blue target on the skill shot You locked both of them for your jackpot multi and here we go. You're starting up. Man, I think you lose one quickly but I think you re-lock it fast right away. So let's watch that. I'll let the audio play and let the commentators commentate. Oh, this was my first multi-ball I think. Yeah. I guess it is a free ball. I might have been wrong. Yeah. That's why I asked because I have I see it sometimes a two though so I'm confused as to How it works so here's your two right I think this was your relock But yeah I totally forgot that happened It was you missed the Under the ramp jackpot and then The balls kind of got a little out of control And it just was one of those things where you're like Uh oh Because I went for like a Z-Mac bump The flipper just didn't want to move. The gloves died on the flipper and just rolled down. It was so sad. Yeah, here's the shot. I really thought that would happen.
    129:53
    Yeah, it was the weirdest, like, yeah, it goes there and then it didn't, you know. Maybe I accidentally raised the flipper button and, like, absorbed. I don't know. That sucked. You don't have to worry about it because, luckily, the end result is good. So, uh, ball to, um, Vigo goes into his belt too. He blasted some grid shots. His grid shots, like we're adding up really quickly. Like he was, I was surprised at how fast they sort of, uh, were collected. I don't think the visors open here. Oh, it might be, but he was getting like four hand shots off the left and they were just piling up. So there's his visor open. Uh, he started his next multi ball. He did get a couple of jackpots this time. Um, he ends his multi-ball at about $627 million. We'll let this play.
    130:51
    Excuse me, and then let this come out. So his jackpot right there for $75 million. And have you ever gotten a Mega Visor? Me personally, I've never seen it. I've never seen anybody in competition do it.
    131:04
    Maybe when I was playing the jackpot for fun, I might have done it a couple times. I'm assuming the scores can get really nutty. So he's at 6'12 right now A nice little flick there He does get a sling to the Right out lane But he has a really Much better ball than ball one Excuse me a little bit better He had 276 on ball one I forgot about that So 699 for his troubles You're going into ball two You have another chance to open your visor With a skill shot So you're talking to Garrett and Jack here What are you discussing Do you remember yeah I was like I was asking for their opinions on like should I take the second multiball now or just start grinding for game saucers to get towards Casino Run and I ended up just going for the second because I forgot like if it was the second or third multiball where like it was extra hard settings where you had to hit the visor every lock and turns out it was the third one and they knew that so that was a good piece of advice Smart, very smart move Because you have a really good ball here There's Jack You played with Jack a lot?
    132:19
    I haven't played Not enough in competitions But we have played for fun He's a great guy That's awesome So here's your second ball start And we're going to get to the Multi ball start here We'll watch this play out This one was weird because they were saying on commentary that, like, your play field didn't validate, but you got, like, the super jackpot for 375, I think. I don't know what happened here. Yeah, I didn't remember, like, most of what happened here. But let's see what it looks like.
    132:58
    So you're short plunging here. You have one lock there inside the visor already? Yeah, I think both are in there. So right here I'm trying to trap off without getting any extra switches. I'm trying to pick off the side jackpots for now. I got that one, which was nice.
    133:16
    There's one on the very right, which is a very, very small shot to get. Joe, you said the play field's not validated, right? Oh, did it register there? Yeah, it looks like it. That was a rip-off. Yeah, I remember we were watching this during NDSC.
    133:36
    Jackpot games. And you can tell because when the scores are showing on the screen, if the score is still flashing, that means the play field is not validated yet. Oh, good to know. And there's your Super Jackpot. I can't believe what happened there, though. That was one of the craziest parts of that final. And then the delayed tilt after that. I almost forgot. That was insane because that could have cost me the game right there and possibly the championship if it tilted right before I got the super. But I made like a semi-decent, not like a huge move, and it danger-dangered. And the debounce, like it gives dangers until it's really fast on jackpot, even in general. So I was scared as heck when I did that. But it let me live just like 10 seconds longer, which was enough to double my score with that super. Yeah, 375. That was huge, and that basically won me that game. Yeah, because it's crazy. I was like, okay, he made the move, But it didn't look like you were moving it And when you hit the planet shot it tilted I was like uh what just happened Um yeah that startled me When that happened but I am so thankful That it delayed the tilt Just so I could get that super So that was really convenient Yeah it was like okay Well Viggo's had two he had the jaws Up post not coming up and then obviously firepower I was like there's Jason's one And they were circling it because I remember On pin bot that's how you collect the planets I'm like holy shit that just like It didn't look like you made a move, but like you said, as long as you got enough time for that super jackpot, you were sitting at 896. So Vigo's got to pick a strategy now. Do you go for – he's already played the two multiballs. So now at this point, I feel like if you're in this situation, you're going for a casino run, right?
    135:24
    So, yeah, he's played two multiballs. I mean, it is some points like getting the lit visor target, But you really have to be precise I don't know because You have to survive I forget how dangerous that game saucer fee was If it was dangerous I would still be going for that third multi Because you're just Too far Yeah he had no progress You have to survive too many dangerous shots But I think multi bow is probably fine To go for in this case So he makes his big move there But unfortunately it tilts I mean he had to make that He was momentum shift for me That was a massive win right there And that was such a close game Yeah mentally I've got to feel like That's giving you such a rush right there I was relieved if you saw me in the background Like I was so relieved That was really intense I was watching that game like a hawk Good I'm glad other people are watching too Sometimes I walk away like I don't want to know what happens But sometimes you have to Yeah sometimes I don't watch it depends really Yeah so you are now up 4-3 and the next pick is yours, Creature from the Black Lagoon Nope, that was his pick I guess I went to the loser of the game that we just played I didn't know how it worked You're up 4-3, we're going into the last game Potentially of the IFPA20 World Championships You are one game away, what are you telling yourself before creature. Have you played this before in the playoffs? Obviously, you know the rules to it because this is a common one for everybody, but what are you thinking? Yeah, I actually played it once in qualifying, and I actually really liked the way this one played. It was pretty controllable. You could usually live catch off of the right feed from the bumpers. The tilt was pretty reasonable, and yeah, the flippers were strong. You could make the left ramp during multi-ball. I really liked the way it played, surprisingly, because I'm usually kind of terrified of the creature because it's such a difficult game, so challenging, especially with that extra wide gap between the flippers in the middle. We actually own the creature here at home. I'm like 10 feet away from it now.
    137:47
    It's a really great game. It's one of my favorite games of all time, actually. I just really liked the risk-reward. It might be like the best multiball of all time because it's just so intense. It's only two ball, and there are so many stages to get like, and depending on how much you multiply the play field for a potentially massive payoff, and it could just get really big. Yeah, I was going to say there's some real strategy here because just like jackpot, I feel like you guys ended on two really good pins for everybody to see such high-level skill and play on. Give us your primer on creature and kind of the two strategies I think there are. There's move your car and obviously multiball, right?
    138:33
    Yeah. So the first thing you do is you want to full plunge so that it goes all the way around, and you want to try to complete kiss, and you have to time it and everything. So that'll give you the first letter in film. The way you light your multiball is you have to spell film, and so the first way is to spell kiss on the left shot the second way is to get the four blue stand-ups that are near the smack bar in the middle then you have to complete the top lanes, paid, and then you have to shoot the right orbit for the M, and then you can shoot either the left or right orbit to start a multi-bow that's a pretty standard strat. The other good strat that you can do on this game is totally different where you just grind the shot that is to the right of the left ramp it's a move your car shot and if you shoot it like five times you start the move your car mode and what you do in that mode is you just keep shooting that shot forever you know it's a hurry up value and once you lock it in uh you just keep shooting it for like double triple quadruple value and that's you know as long as you can accurately shoot that shot and survive and catch the ball from the feed from the bumpers you can do that all day really so that's a great strat as well. Yeah I know it's absolutely amazing the intricacy of the rules here because it's an older pin but the fact that there are ways to get multiplied jackpots and multiball but then move your car you know shooting it up there will also increase the jackpot value because you're hitting the pops but then you're also getting into the move your car mode. I didn't realize hitting the snack bar spots one of your snack bar targets too and then One of the things that you mentioned in the beginning Plunging at the right time So you don't have to spell kiss With four shots You could do it with one or it spots it for you Right off the bat Yeah so as you can see right now The letters are lighting up Like 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4 So you ideally want to let Usually you just let go of the ponder when it lights up the first letter only And then you could spell the whole word It's like a cheap way of getting the F in film immediately Yeah So I think I ended up doing that here You mentioned that you can spot the snack bar targets by shooting the snack bar You can only do that unless, you know, if you haven't collected a jackpot But as soon as you collect a jackpot, you can't do that for the rest of the game Oh, wow I guess really to survive a lot of targets However, the bumpers do move around the lit targets like this So I know the right two targets are generally easier than the left So that's another thing What happens if you hit the lit rollover lane up top on your skill shot? Does it give you the letter L?
    141:21
    Yeah, it instantly gives you the L. Okay, awesome. So ball one, Vigo got his L up top, shot the smack bar. He got a forehand from the right to the smack bar or the kiss, but it missed and he went out the right out lane. He ends up with $10.5 million. You have a really, really good ball one here. So this was like a clinic on creature. I'm going to ask how you felt after, obviously, but let's just go through sort of the sequencing.
    141:51
    Why are you going also with spelling film in order? You just get like a, what's it called? It's just a sequential film spelling. If you spell it F-I-L-M in that order, you get an extra eight mils. You're like, why not? Yeah, exactly. I was like, oh, it'll multiply as jackpot by billions, but then I saw it and I was like, oh, it's just an extra 8 million. Might as well do it. Yeah. I mean, that's like his score on Ball 1, so I might as well take it. Exactly. So you are already through L here, so obviously, you know, take a break. You're collecting yourself. You just have to hit that right orbit or the right shot and, excuse me, right saucer, and boom, there it is. There's your 8 million. There we go, and another 8 for them So that's nice Yes, and so now you just gotta Oop, didn't get it up there, but now you're gonna start your multiball And again, what are you doing in multiball? Picking off your jackpots? Or trying to find the girl first, and then Yeah, I mean it depends on what you want to do You can immediately trap up And just grind the 3 or 4x Playfield, and then you can Start going, you know Through the multiball phases Or you can just go for the, you know light the jackpot instantly. And you have to shoot, because there was a different run, it was the scoring run on this one, I think you had to shoot each of the three, you know, the left kiss shot, the snack bar in the middle, and the right orbit. You have to get all three of those every time to find the girl. And then it lights the middle, and then you shoot it to rescue the girl, and then your jackpot lights. So that's the sequence in this multi-ball. So what's happening here? You've got a really good start going on. You start your multiball. Luckily, there's no auto-plunge and timer here that I know of. Why did you walk away? Just to collect your thoughts?
    143:49
    Yeah, I just pulled an Arvid when he did the freakiest round against me where I think he walked away from whirlwind or something when his multiball was lit just to collect your thoughts and reset yourself. So I'm like, why not? I love it. It's a pretty important moment. Yeah, it's a power move to me. I absolutely respect it. I love it. So you are starting your multiball at around $40 million.
    144:14
    It looked like, you know, the top ball was moving a little. It would be nice to settle it. So I was like, oh, maybe that's why he walked away. But you got to rescue the girl in the first shot, which is key, because then that opens up your jackpots during the multiball, right?
    144:31
    Yep. So, yeah, I think I have to shoot. Did I have to shoot all three? I might have. But yeah, then you shoot the snack bar twice And then you have your jackpot And then once you get your jackpot So I think mine was like 53 or something Then you have to get the ball You have to shoot the move your car shot Over and over and then you have to get a certain number of Pop bumper hits and then eventually That lights your super at the snack bar Which is double your jackpot value And that could get massive If you shoot the left ramp over and over To get your playthrough multiplier up a little Yeah, and that's what I was going to mention next If you shoot that left ramp It goes around the little diner cup on the bottom right, which they're highlighting now, and you spell creature through every revolution. You get a letter for every roundabout, and that starts at 2X, and then it starts at 3X. And the reason we're discussing this heavily is because it will play into the later ball. So, again, you're already at, whatchamacallit, at over $110 million, and then now you start move your car, and it looked like you were feeling good during this. Like the shot was just there, and you knew where it was.
    145:42
    Yeah, I felt really comfortable with the live catch on the right and then shooting back up that shot. I was pretty consistent with that, so I'm like, I might as well just keep going for it. That's what I ended up doing right here because I didn't feel like trying to survive like four targets to get the eye in film. It's very dangerous. Do you prefer shooting the move your car shot From the right or left?
    146:08
    Usually the left But I don't know I felt really comfortable from the right on this one So I'm like I might as well just go with it And that's what I normally see That's why I was going to ask it I feel like it looks more open from the left But technically from the right If you're not going to the edge of the flipper Which would then either send it to kiss or the left ramp It's really a It looks like it's a safe spot It looks like you have more real estate on the right flipper to hit the center shot versus on the left where just maybe it's kind of wonky. So when you were hitting it from the right, I was like, man, that looks comfortable right now. It looks really good. Yeah, that's why I just kept going from the right flipper because I felt pretty good with it. But, yeah, the shot, it kind of curves in a way that you want to shoot it.
    146:53
    Yeah, it looks like a bowling curve or a soccer curve, like bend it like Beckham. So, yeah, so right now you finished your first move your car, and you're hitting this left ramp over and over again. Is this big millions, or what is this, ramp millions? Yeah, so because I shot the right orbit enough times, it gave me, like, an award and happened to be millions on the left ramp. And the way it works is you just shoot the left ramp, it's 3 mil, then it's 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, and you just keep going until the timer runs out. And that could be, it was big points for me. So that was a nice way to get some points. Yeah, it was like over $43 million or something over it. It was just wild because you had it dialed in once you started like at six, and then it just was like nine, 12, 15. Yeah, it's a great round because the left ramp is an easy shot. Yeah, it looks very open. Do you ever go for the right ramp or no?
    147:51
    Not really. I mean you can I don't think you could backhand it on this one and also as you can see there I just shot it and the feed was so lightning fast when it comes through the left end lane for some reason so yeah it's really fast like it's you can't really combo it over and over on this one so I was kind of avoiding it for that reason it reminds me of mouse in a round how fast it can especially the district 82 one when you shoot the ramp and it just comes around through the left That one, the 282, the mouse And that's way faster than this one I was like, oh, I know that speed somewhere But yeah, you're right, it's definitely faster On mouse than around So, you're on your second Move your car Which is a good position To be in It looks like here, by the time we get to the End of it, yeah, look at your jackpot values At 68 there And you got another 5 million For your troubles there, and you're at 6.2 million times 2 This is your second shot, 12.5 million there I love the animations too And then this mode is in Junkyard I think, right?
    149:01
    There's another pin this mode is in I forgot which one it is Yeah, I think Flintstones Yeah, it's the same mode where you shoot the middle over And I think it also has Callouts from this, so that's pretty funny Yeah, I remember it I love Flintstones as a tournament game too But obviously, you're chewing your gum, you're kicking butt. I can just see how in tune you are with this pin. And you're already at 15 shots. The commentators were noting your jackpot value here is $84 million. Joe, what were you thinking when you watched this footage?
    149:39
    Yeah, no, I mean, this is great. I remember I noticed early on in the ball, you were letting it kind of bounce over from the right orbit return, and then you switched over to live catching.
    149:50
    So it's cool to see that, you know, just adapt to that. But, I mean, yeah, like you said, it's pretty much a clinic on how to play the game. The shots are super accurate and the ball control is there.
    150:02
    Yeah, it's actually, I mean, before this championship, it had been, it might have been years, honestly, since I played Creature in any tournament. Really? It was pretty fun, honestly, especially because this one, I really like the way this one played. I kind of want to see it in more tournaments, honestly. Because it's a challenge. It's one of the toughest games out there of any time period. So I like it for that reason. I want to say ZMAC recently said it was one of his least favorite games to play in tournaments. I was kind of avoiding playing mine at home for a while before I played it here at this World Championship. But I've been playing it a lot more recently, and it's just great. I love it. Yeah, I think it's awesome And obviously It's really good to see Just how good it can play Obviously with a skilled player like yourself But what you can do on it So people can watch this footage Through, again, shout out to JDL Pinball for the footage from Worlds Thank you for having this Archived so we can go over it with Jason Zoller But there's a straight down The middle there, but man, what an excellent ball. I know some people say they thrive better under pressure. Do you think you play better just when you're more relaxed?
    151:21
    Are you able to get into the groove easier when you're not as I don't want to say anxious, but some people say they play better when the chip's on the line. How do you feel?
    151:33
    I mean, I've had so much experience with these super high pressure situations in these major championships now that it eventually becomes more normalized. So it doesn't feel as big of a situation for me at least, but when I'm in my groove and I'm relaxed, I really do well. But I also am pretty good under pressure at the same time. You really have to be if you're going to get deep into these top tournaments. Yeah, exactly. I completely agree. If you've been there, I think the great news is when you've seen that situation and been through the experience, it kind of doesn't hopefully rattle you as much because you know what the nerves you can kind of expect what the nerves will be. So Arvid talking to Vigo about his bowl too. I'm glad they were taking time to kind of discuss it. I love seeing that. I think when you discussed it at the beginning, I love the ability of top competitors or players, even if they're not the top, just hashing it out with other people like, hey, I could do this, but no, you probably want to do this. It's always nice to get a different perspective of what the situation actually is.
    152:43
    Yeah, I totally agree. As long as you're not doing it, you know, you can't do it with IFA rules during while you're playing, but in between games or in between balls, I definitely think it's good to do from an extra perspective too. Yep, and so Vigo does get on his ball two, ends up With about 70 million from Move Your Car Got all the shots Ended with 109 million but there's the shimmy Oh he almost got that He didn't see that when I was there Yeah he He had a really good move there We'll watch it again That would have been insane if he actually had that Yeah tilted him out so It's like a half ramp and then He's at 109 I think it was like he ended up Around here so And you see like Viggo and Arvid They go for that shimmy every single time. Like, it's just, that's their default setting. Like, they will go for the shimmy, and it's usually effective. Like, that's why they're so dangerous to play against, because if they can, like, normally save a ball that's going in the out lane and just dig it out like that, it's crazy. And to the viewers at home, the shimmy is not easy to do. Like, it's very hard. You have to have a precise amount of force and left-to-right motion. So the fact that they're so in tune with it is wild to me and just a testament to their skill. But, yeah, so this was his ball, ball two. We'll see the shimmy again. I think it's – yeah, okay, so I'm going to pause it. This is where it is. It was during the multi-ball, and here it goes. Double drain. Yeah, double drain. It bounced back into the – you went in the in lane, and then it bounced back into the belted. But he was right there Right there And so his ball too ends with 126 million You've got a nice lead here And this is kind of a short ball for you I believe on your ball too You just needed the eye To start your next multi-ball I think there was a mis-raid On a bounce here Off the right It's coming up But I think I've seen this bounce so many times It sort of rainbows off right there And boom Oh yeah, it's like a weird angle Yeah It always seems like It's going to get enough to go to the left Because you can sort of tell You could flick the right flipper If I had gotten a little bit on the ball Then I could have maybe slapped it to the left flipper Or something, but it was like Because the middle on creature in general Is extra wide, so It's just a weird angle Yeah, but great You know, still He's still got a 358 million lead And this is real again like we talked about before Them talking I know this will help him On his nerves Talking with Arvid but He has to make something happen here And so he's got to get To his multi ball and then He's probably thinking in his head I've got to also multiply That multi ball Where were you during his Were you watching his ball three?
    155:54
    Oh, absolutely It was his do or die moment for the whole thing He had to make me play my ball three or else it was over And I was actually, it wasn't the worst thing that I drained when I did Because if I had to play my ball three I had a multi-ball ready to go So I had that in my back pocket in case I needed it And I was, you know, as this goes on more I thought more and more that I would have to play my 3. It was really intense. Exactly. We're watching the strategy here. What's crazy is he's timing the spin of the ball in that diner saucer cup so that when he shoots the left ramp, because again, he has to hit that so it spells creature and he gets a multiplied jackpot during his multiple. So he's at 2x now, but he's hitting it so that he can go ahead and make sure that the balls aren't getting into that saucer at the same time. So he's doing this, and then he's shooting. By the time the ball comes out right around here, then he's shooting it either up the left ramp or I think he was also shooting up the center so that there it is. So now he's in the mode of, okay, but you don't want to shoot it too close to each other because then the balls careem off each other and you end up losing one, And now all that work for your 3x and 4x is kind of gone. So he's got to now start his snack, start the multiball. And unfortunately, he does get a shot at it. I think he gets like, he gets a double danger here. He has a big move. There's way.
    157:32
    Yes. Single, right? I, for some reason. Yeah. I thought it was a double, but you're right. It's a single. He's got 10x on his bonus multiplier. Theolis is going crazy in the back. Like, ah, that's it. but he does end up having to shoot the, he's going for the snack bar here eventually. So we'll take a listen to the last moments of this ball.
    157:55
    Jim. Yeah. And like you said, it was, it was this advantage that he got his multipliers without any progress lighting the jackpot. Yeah. Like he would double this for, he would have made me play if he had collected at least, you know, it probably would have been over 200 mil if he got it. Oh yeah. Cause he was at three X. Yeah. So here it comes. He's trying to get his tis letters He's got KISS And then here he goes Oh This is the craziest move I've potentially ever seen Yeah right Also the debounce on Creature It's not good Like it's just tilted Yeah so he ends up The rig was rocking.
    158:46
    I thought when I saw that, like, he was going to go all the way. Oh, man. So I saw you. When it was over. Yeah, I saw you walk by with your hand across your stomach. What were you just doing, the biggest sigh of relief?
    159:02
    Oh, yeah. I was totally fried. I didn't want to play. I just wanted it to be over already. But I was still, of course, expecting him to make me play the third ball. I was right behind him Watching that third ball So I was Watching like a hawk And he almost had me Yeah no That was I mean he was close And You know it's just wild because Like you said It's just crazy because He had The multiplier ready and he would have had to make you play if he hits one of those jackpots because he built it up. He was almost at 4X, I think, and it was just in my mind, I'm like, he's done the work. Now all he has to do is get the next shot, and it just, the balls draining at the same or hitting the saucer at the same time, the cup just kind of threw everything out of whack. So congratulations. Let me bring this up. Let me see if it'll show it properly. One second, and then we'll go here, and boom. There you are, congratulations What was You know You get to get your announcement And you've been here before, which is great That's the nice thing, it's a testament to your skill Kudos to you What is your feeling right now, other than elation Are you just proud of all the work You've done, what's going on here Yeah, I mean One that was like When I was over there and it just happened It was like the biggest sigh of relief, maybe probably the same as last year, but it's the best feeling ever, really. You know, after that whole grind, I had to face Arvin right before it. It was so easy. No, it was not so easy. It was like the toughest tournament in the world, basically.
    160:58
    It's a lot of work, so that felt great. But, yeah, right now I'm just really satisfied. I got my third major. that was also the first time that was the first chance I had at defending my title at a major championship so to be able to do that for the first attempt, very glad I was able to pull that off Yeah, it's awesome man, I love that Avengers is right there behind you and here's some other pictures There's Jason, Vigo, Arvid and Garrett Congrats to all of you That was super cool to watch Here's a picture of you and your dad There's Steve, a great player in his own right And there's the list of all the All the players that have Won the championship The IFPA Worlds There's Rick Stetta, Dave Heggie You got Bowen, back-to-back, Daniele Your first major was at IFPA last year?
    161:55
    Yep, that was against Arvid And then I got the rematch against him in Semi Nice That was in California at Jim Belzito's place. And then here is you signing. What is, you're signing your name, what's the 777? Is that your signature? The lucky number. That's the number. I can't wait until you're 21 and you go play slots.
    162:19
    And I have, you know, it's not 100% skill. You've got to have some help along the way as well. And there's a lot of really crazy moments in these, you know, final matches and the biggest events. So you've got to get some luck along the way as well. Oh, no, for sure. Joe, did you have any questions? I'm going to ask you some more questions. I just want to check something here. No, you're good. Yeah, that was amazing to watch, man. Congratulations again. Well earned. Can't wait to see you try to defend your second major that you're holding at Pinnberg next week. Oh, yeah. I'll have a chance to win that, which should be fun. We'll see how that goes. But I'm not putting extra pressure on myself Because my big one was Defending the IFA Worlds So I'm relieved And very satisfied I was able to do that Yeah, super cool Just some more questions and we'll do our Fun little rapid fire round Thank you for being with us We're hitting three hours So I really thank you for your time And now everybody knows why I think so long Because we like to get into the details If you could add one game to IFA World lineup Every year, what would it be? I gotta say Avengers I just have to Do you feel like moderns or classics Gave you the edge in this particular run That's a tough one Because I did really well on Firepower Even like Whirlwind against Arvid In the semifinals helped me I really can't pick a favorite ever Honestly they all pitched in A lot No you want to ask the next one? Sorry. Yeah, sure.
    164:00
    Was there a specific game or moment in the tournament where you thought, this could be mine, I could win this?
    164:07
    I really think after that clutch win on Jackpot, he was less than 100 mil, and that, you know, he tilted, and the fact that I somehow got away with that double danger super with a delayed tilt right after it, that was huge momentum. That made me feel really good and relieved. So I felt like I could actually win this after that happened.
    164:33
    All right. What do you hope people remember about this championship run? I would say I thought that last year's IFA 19 in the States was the toughest tournament I've ever played in. But this might match it or be slightly more difficult somehow because every year it's just getting tougher and tougher. It just never stops. More difficult to win these these big tournaments against all these super good kid players like Big O, and Z-Mac and all these others. There's there's more and more each year. So but I mean, I had a really good time. It was a great venue, Flipnick. And, you know, JDL did an amazing job with the stream. It was really great. And it was it was a really good trip. It was one of my favorite trips, if not my favorite. that full trip to Austria. So it was a great time.
    165:29
    Nice. Yeah, it's awesome that you had some time to explore, you know, in Europe too. That's, you know, way to have balance.
    165:37
    For sure. What would you say is harder, winning the first one or staying at, you know, defending the title after you've won it? Definitely the first one, at least for me it is. because that was like, you know, in 2023, I got fourth in Indus, second in EPC, and then third in IFPA 18.
    165:58
    I got, you know, that was great in and of itself. I got top four in all three majors that year, but I still really wanted to win one. I was really motivated to, but it took a while. Eventually, I broke through. I think a lot tougher was to have that first breakthrough win for me, and then after that it proved to myself, like, okay, I've won one. I can win more now. It'll only get easier from now, I think.
    166:24
    Awesome. So now we're going to do a quick little fun little game, a rapid-fire round. You say the first thing that comes to your mind. Flipper skills or nudging skills?
    166:35
    I guess flipper skills, but I really like nudging skills as well. Nice. So classic EMs, DMDs, or modern LCDs? and it's tough because I really like all of them now and you have to be good at especially If The Worlds but I guess I'll give the edge to the modern arrows because there's so much fun code and rules to do with them nowadays Favorite non-pinball arcade game?
    167:03
    Well we actually have some arcade cabinets in our basement my dad got them years ago like we have Pac-Man, Millipede, Galaga I would say my favorite is probably Galaga but there's a lot of fun ones Least favorite pinball machine ever?
    167:21
    Least favorite pinball machine, honestly I like pretty much all games, but I mean, we have a Beatles, and it's like, it's alright It's not my favorite game if I get it in the tournament but usually I'm just fine with whatever I get, honestly I don't have major problems with a certain game, especially if I'm playing it in tournament Well, the good thing is Pinburg will have Sea Witch, so we'll get the Superior.
    167:49
    Oh, I love Sea Witch, though, yeah. I feel like it was just really made for, like, that era, I guess. Oh, yeah, for sure. Favorite city for pinball tournaments?
    168:00
    Favorite city? I guess I really, at least locally, Delaware, because they have the Delaware Pinball Collective there. That's been for the last ever since like 2021 up until now, like post pandemic. Really great place for me locally to practice. And that helped me get some whoppers in 2022. So I guess, yeah, Delaware is a great local place for me. I also obviously love the championships in California each year, you know, in disc, the Open in January. And last year, you know, Jim Belzito's IFPA 19. California is great. Of course, Chicago and tri-state areas, pretty good, too.
    168:40
    Nice. It's fine or bozo? It's fine. Rip bozo is good, too. What's your favorite tournament food? What do you like to eat?
    168:56
    It's a good one. I don't know. I guess just whatever I can get. Because it's hard sometimes Because we'll play late And then all the places will be closed So usually most of the time It's just whatever we can get our hands on Exactly I was going to ask Pat for his Genos But that's a Philly thing Alright You know what, that was awesome Thank you so much for coming on Again, congratulations JC Zoller Your IFBUT20 Grand Champion, World Champion Winner Is there anything you want to plug while you're on here?
    169:35
    I guess, like I mentioned, Delaware Pinball Collective, I'll give them a shout-out because they're a really great local place for me.
    169:44
    Not much else. I mean, of course, I'll shout-out my dad because, you know, he's been bringing me to these tournaments since I started. He got me into the whole hobby and everything. So, you know, he was my biggest mentor when I was younger and still is a great coach for me. So shout out to my dad and of course my family And everyone that supports me I really appreciate it It's awesome to see you play Joe you got anything? Any other questions?
    170:11
    I think that's it man Nice job Jason, congratulations again Appreciate it Looking forward to seeing you at Pinberg We'll see you there We'll be there Pinberg, The Beast I'm going to NWPC and then Papa It's going to be a busy summer at Pinball I hope to see you guys there And other than that, that is episode nine of Wizards and Warriors. Thank you again for joining us, Jason. And everybody listening, I hope you had a good time. And make sure you watch the video footage because it does help. And it was a great conversation. So we'll see you for the next one. We'll see you all at Pinberg. And that's it. Bye, everybody.
    170:49
    Yep, thanks again for having me. It was a lot of fun. See you later, guys. Step up to the table, my heart is singing The crowd is watching, the tension is high I'm ready to play, it's time to define Pinball warriors, we're ready to fight The time has arrived, it's the start of your life The time has ended, but we're in control Pinball witches, we've got the rule Pinball warriors, chasing the lifeline People bring the dicks and the arcades alive But we've funded my every command In this pinball kingdom, I make my stand. Pinball warriors, we're ready as my hands. We're not all dead, it's a target life. We're protected, but we're in control. Pinball winners, we got the soul.