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Ep 128: Jaws is Here!

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 10m·analyzed·Jan 7, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Jaws release analysis: design decisions, leaked trailers, licensing constraints, Chief Brody absence, and artwork reception.

Summary

Loser Kid Pinball Podcast's 5-year anniversary episode celebrates the official release of Stern's Jaws pinball machine, discussing its development journey, design decisions (shark mech, upper playfield mechanics), licensing constraints, and artwork. Hosts Josh and Scott analyze how leaked trailers and grainy photos initially created skepticism, which was reversed by the official Gomez-Elwin trailer, and explore design compromises made during development.

Key Claims

  • Keith Elwin was wearing a Jaws hat at Pinburgh in 2018, six years before the game's release, essentially trolling the community about the game's development.

    high confidence · Josh and Scott discussing leaked information about Keith Elwin's early knowledge of the Jaws project, mentioning Stern Insider Podcast revealed this detail.

  • The original shark-eating-ball mechanic was abandoned because it looked 'really dumb' and had technical issues with ball routing and the lack of a subway system in the playfield design.

    high confidence · Detailed explanation from Stern Insider Podcast, with Scott and Josh discussing why the mechanic was scrapped in favor of a captive ball design with drop target.

  • The shark fin drop target was originally designed as an actual shark fin, but tests showed the ball launching unpredictably due to shark fins being 'nature's natural ramps,' forcing a design change to the drop target.

    high confidence · Keith Elwin explained mechanics in Stern Insider Podcast; Josh and Scott reference this explanation directly.

  • The upper playfield was designed to prevent players from staying up there indefinitely, with two exit shots (steering wheel and horseshoe loop) that route the ball back to main play.

    high confidence · Josh explains the upper playfield design philosophy, contrasting it with problematic upper playfield designs on other games like Whitewater.

  • Richard Dreyfuss provided vocal recordings for the game, though his voice is noticeably different after 50 years compared to the original 1975 film.

    high confidence · Josh and Scott discuss Richard Dreyfuss vocals, mentioning Jerry Thompson addressed voice aging in Stern Insider Podcast.

  • Chief Brody's face is not prominent on the playfield despite being a major character, with licensing constraints from the movie estate being tighter than expected.

    high confidence · Josh and Scott discuss Brody's limited visual presence but inclusion through movie clips and the wizard mode title 'Smile, You Son of a –' (a Brody line).

  • The leaked teaser trailer caused initial negative sentiment by showing grainy, unflattering photos that made the playfield appear empty, which was reversed by the official Gomez-Elwin full trailer.

Notable Quotes

  • “It's like an explosion of news. I've got these notes that are just a mile long.”

    Josh Roop @ Opening — Sets the tone for the episode's coverage of major pinball industry news and announcements.

  • “Keith, you played with a Star Wars toy back in the 80s. You were totally trolling us.”

    Scott Larson @ Early in episode — Humorous commentary on how designers have long histories of easter eggs and hints in their work.

  • “They said it looked really dumb. It wasn't working, right.”

    Scott Larson @ Design discussion — Explains the practical engineering constraints that force design changes despite fan desires.

  • “Because you think of the T-Rex head on Jack Danger's game too. It just sits there and it opens. You've got like Gene Simmons Kiss. Like you've just got this big ugly head sitting there that's just essentially a scoop.”

    Josh Roop @ Mechanics discussion — Comparative analysis of scoop-based mechanics across pinball games, highlighting design trade-offs.

  • “That is the most brutal metal thing you've ever seen?”

    Scott Larson @ Artwork discussion — Strong praise for Michael Bernard's Premium backglass art showing Quint being eaten by the shark.

  • “Is it not Richard Dreyfuss? They got vocals from Richard Dreyfuss, which is awesome.”

    Josh Roop @ Content discussion — Highlights a major licensing achievement and authentic star voice inclusion in the game.

  • “When I first saw Jaws from the photos, I was a little disappointed. I was like, what?”

    Josh Roop @ Leak discussion — Demonstrates the negative impact of leaked photos before the official trailer changed community perception.

  • “This is what turned people around. I was talking to a handful of people across this industry...they said that they saw an instant turnaround because Steam died really quick.”

    Scott Larson — Shows the importance of professional marketing in reversing negative sentiment from leaks.

Entities

JawsgameKeith ElwinpersonMichael BernardpersonJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonStern PinballcompanyFlippin' Out Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Michael Bernard (artist) engaged with community feedback about Rush art criticism by creating humorous response showing detailed close-up of Quint and Hooper faces.

    medium · Josh: 'he posted, he's like, I know you guys were complaining about the Rush heads, so here is a close-up of Quint and Hooper.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Loser Kid Pinball Podcast celebrating its 5-year anniversary (January 11, 2019 to January 2024) with episode dedicated to Jaws release and mental health awareness messaging.

    high · Josh: 'Our first episode released January 11th in 2019' and dedication to Brittany Staley and mental health discussion throughout opening.

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jaws positioned as potential successor to Godzilla as top-rated game on Pinside, with Jaws being referred to internally at Stern as 'Keith's masterpiece' following Godzilla's success.

    high · Josh: 'we had been hearing from multiple sources that this had been internally called at Stern Keith's masterpiece...I have a really high bar to meet with Godzilla.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Elwin intentionally designed upper playfield to prevent indefinite play retention, a departure from problematic upper playfield design on other games like Whitewater.

    high · Josh: 'Keith is not a fan of upper playfields because a lot of times you can get up there and stay up there indefinitely. So his goal was to make an upper playfield but make it so where like you couldn't stay up there.'

  • ?

    leak_detection: Jaws teaser trailer leaked over a month before official announcement, with grainy photos following within 12-24 hours of official teaser, spreading across content creators' channels before Stern's official Gomez-Elwin trailer.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.213

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. Episode 128 is a new year. New stuff going on. Holy crap. It's like an explosion of news. I've got these notes that are just a mile long. If we get to all of them, awesome. If not, oh well. But with me, my co-captain, as always, Scott Larson. And I'm Josh Roop. A new game was revealed. If you want to get on that Jaws list, hit up Flippin' Out Pinball. Zach and Nicole Mini will take care of your every need. They're a little busy right now. It sounds like they've been hit up pretty hard. Everyone's loving what they see. And so it's great to see that a release so well received after this last year has been kind of a little staggering, if I can say. Yeah, it's kind of a ghost town. Yeah.
0:49
So, but if you want, like I said, if you want that game, if you're looking for, it's not even just Jaws. If you, there's, they've got plenty of games in stock. Hit them up. Zach and Nicole Mini. Flippinoutpinball.com. or you can do it the way I do. I hit up Zach through Messenger.
1:03
Scott, how you been doing? You know what? It's like Christmas every time there's a new pinball release, right? You know it. And this is something that we have been anticipating for a few years.
1:17
I'm not sure if this was the worst kept theme secret, then maybe Guns N' Roses, that had trailed out longer. but we have been anticipating this so it's finally here i'm really excited to see and play this game yeah same what makes me laugh too is like i don't know if you listen to the stern insider podcast i didn't have a chance because it came out when i was i was working this week so there was one point where like i guess ellen was wearing a jaws hat back at 2018 at pinberg yeah like see you were trolling us all the way back then he's like yeah before i even worked for Stern or signed an agreement, I was totally trolling you guys that I was going to make Jaws for Stern five years later when I didn't even know I was going to be working for him.

high confidence · Josh and Scott discuss the impact of leaks: 'Steam died really quick when those photos started to leak. And when that video came out...people understood what was going on.'

  • Michael Bernard created three different art packages (Pro, Premium, LE) with the Pro and LE using the iconic Jaws movie poster, while the Premium features original artwork of Quint being eaten by the shark.

    high confidence · Josh and Scott praise Michael Bernard's Premium art package as superior to other tiers, with Josh noting it as his favorite art package.

  • Godzilla currently ranks #1 on Pinside ratings, surpassing Medieval Madness, and Jaws is being positioned to potentially follow as Keith Elwin's 'masterpiece' project.

    high confidence · Josh states: 'I never saw when I got into the hobby that a game would actually surpass Medieval Madness for number one on the Pinside rating' but Godzilla did.

  • Flippin' Out Pinball (Zach and Nicole Minney) is taking orders for Jaws and has been 'hit up pretty hard' with strong demand immediately following the announcement.

    high confidence · Josh recommends contacting Flippin' Out Pinball for Jaws orders, noting they're busy and have been receiving heavy interest.

    • @ Trailer impact discussion

  • “Everything in your body can get sick, including your mind. And the best thing you can do is reach out and get help that targets the organ that is hurting.”

    Scott Larson @ Mental health segment — Personal testimony on mental health importance in the pinball community context.

  • “I feel like this is like maybe like a Groot. Well, not a Groot. What am I looking for? Sparky off of Metallica...The Well Walker.”

    Josh Roop @ Mechanical discussion — Comparative analysis of unique playfield mechanics across different pinball machines.

    • Richard Dreyfuss
    person
    Godzillagame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Venomgame
    Jack Dangerperson
    Jerry Thompsonperson
    Star Wars Pinballgame
    Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    Stern Insider Podcastorganization
    Whitewatergame
    Metallicagame

    high · Josh: 'the trailer was leaked over a month ago...It's always like a grainy trailer...By the time this actually had come out, it had already had 20,000 views combined over other content creators.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Chief Brody character has limited visual presence on playfield despite being central to the film, suggesting licensing constraints from the movie estate are tight, though character appears through clips and wizard mode title.

    high · Josh: 'it seems like when it comes to estates, they're a lot more tight-fisted on what they're saying' and discussion of Brody's absence from playfield despite inclusion through movie clips.

  • $

    market_signal: Flippin' Out Pinball reporting high demand for Jaws immediately following announcement, with Zach and Nicole Minney described as 'a little busy right now' and 'hit up pretty hard.'

    high · Josh: 'If you want to get on that Jaws list, hit up Flippin' Out Pinball. Zach and Nicole Minney will take care of your every need. They're a little busy right now. It sounds like they've been hit up pretty hard.'

  • $

    market_signal: Official Gomez-Elwin full trailer (5.5 minutes) reversed negative sentiment caused by leaked grainy photos, showing the importance of professional marketing presentation over user-generated leaks.

    high · Scott: 'Steam died really quick when those photos started to leak. And when that video came out...people understood what was going on with the game.' Josh: 'When I first saw Jaws from the photos, I was a little disappointed...after they went through and explained what they're doing...this is amazing.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Keith Elwin's design process involved extensive iteration and testing, with original ideas (shark fin ramp, ball-eating mech) abandoned after finding technical and aesthetic issues during development.

    high · Scott: 'Keith and company originally had that shaped as a shark fin...they said the ball was launching every – like it was unpredictable...they had to go to a drop target.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jaws features three distinct art packages with Pro/LE using iconic movie poster and Premium featuring original Michael Bernard artwork of Quint being consumed by shark.

    high · Josh: 'the Pro flyer, the backglass is the movie poster...the Premium flyer – that was just fun. When I saw that he was able to do the shark chewing the Orca up.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Original shark-eating-ball mechanic was abandoned during development in favor of captive ball design with drop target due to visual and technical issues with ball routing.

    high · Scott: 'the ball-eating mech looks stupid. And it was hard because of the way it came out of the playfield...the game was not designed to have a subway in it. So what, it's going to eat the ball and then spit it back out at you?'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Jaws trailer embed in pinball machine code updates suggests pre-recorded trailers may be data-mined weeks before release, raising questions about code security and leak prevention.

    medium · Josh and Scott discuss whether Jaws trailer appearing in code updates 'six weeks before release' indicates code download with timestamp vs. streaming architecture, speculating data miners could extract trailers early.

    • 2:06
    Actually, it's been six years now. Crazy. Hey, Steve Ritchie, you played with a Star Wars toy back in the 80s. You were totally trolling us.
    2:15
    Before we get much deeper into this, though, I want to just do a quick dedication in this episode to a longtime listener, Brittany Staley. She was a very great supporter of ours. sadly she lost her life back in september but i just wanted to say hey like we want this this episode's for you this is our five year anniversary episode we our first episode released january 11th in 2019 yeah i almost said 18 which we're talking 18 with ellen but just a friendly reminder we're coming out of the holidays you know usually holidays can be a low time for for mental health and whatnot. So if you're feeling blue, talk to someone, get some help, just decompress a little bit, you know, very stressful time. So, yeah, I, and I'll, I want to emphasize to the, um, you know, look out for your kids. Yeah. second you're good so check on everybody in your family i have unfortunately had a conversation twice in my life that i never want to have again but it was the first one was when my sister's husband took her life took his life and the second one was a few months ago when my cousin's son took his life. So I mean, mental health is a big deal and it's, it's not just you, it's your extended family and reach out, find out how they're doing. If they need help, please reach out. Um, we've said it before. Everything in your body can get sick, including your mind. And the best thing you can do is reach out and to get help that targets the organ that is hurting and if it's your heart or your soul or your brain please reach out and share that you're struggling because the world's better with you yes definitely we don't want you gone so just hey we just wanted to bring that up sorry sorry bring it up and down and then up but that's okay I mean that that's important that's life pinball really is it's an awesome hobby and we love it but it does play far down the list for your health, your happiness, your existence. And the interconnections that we make in pinball are very vital because people who can feel isolated in this world, it's very easy.
    4:53
    This is something that is a positive influence that has been able to thrive through the Internet age with the interconnections that we have with, you know, it's a small community, but it's a big one at the same time. Cause when you add the online option, then it can bring a lot of positive things. Not, not always just the negative stuff that we hear about. So use that, use that. Definitely. Well, let's dedicate to those that we've lost and let's, let's talk about some pinball let's let's all right okay so jaws west worst kept secret as you're saying just ellen's been trolling us for six years already that he was gonna make this game what what was okay let's talk about leading up to this because it was kind of kooky right like we can talk about like the trailer was leaked over a month ago it was yeah it's always it's so bad it's always like a grainy trailer and i had mentioned to you that this if you're old enough to remember toy commercials from the 80s yeah it has this grainy feel and this kid who opens up his star wars tone he's like oh boy it just had that vibe yeah and it doesn't help yeah it doesn't help because it makes it feel immediately dated even though i get it that this is a theme that came out 50 years ago? 75.
    6:27
    Yeah. Okay, so this is 48 years ago. But it doesn't help. The leaks, it is fun to talk about rumors, and I totally get that. There are things that can help and things that can hurt.
    6:45
    And in many ways, some of these things ended up, I think raising questions more than excitement. How, how would you look at that, Josh? Oh, I totally agree. And it's funny. Cause like, like I said, the trailer leaked, like we knew for sure was out in the wild about month and a half ago or something like that. Even though I didn't see it actually. Yeah. And it was kind of goofy because it's like nothing happened. Nothing happened through Christmas. Yeah. We're getting a little drip feed of just a little bit of what's going on with the game. But it was like, they do the teaser trailer on Tuesday, this last Tuesday, january 2nd and all of a sudden like the floodgates open and pitchers like you said grainy pitchers like there were some good ones but then it was like people were progressively getting worse with the pitchers i don't i don't get it in that weird fisheye lens from the bottom of the play field it's it okay that didn't do it any favors because when i looked at that and i even mentioned to to you you and the triple drain guys i was like does okay does this feel empty is it just the camera like how you know because that that was one of the biggest take-homes that we took with venom and we can all agree that venom didn't sell as well as stern would want right yeah so was this one of those things we're like wow are they just going for more open play fields and that's not necessarily bad but we already had venom which was pretty open and so i was i was concerned that we were going to get another super open play field i agree and so within about one it wasn't 24 hours maybe about 12 hours of the trailer the teaser trailer uh we had the full trailer drop on on facebook and it was kind of goofy like within 48 hours of the teaser trailer to the actual trailer right people were taking this trailer and putting it on their personal content creators page yeah i mean it's it's kind of wild like it seems like it wasn't even a couple of years ago where if you were even sharing photos stern was coming at you like throwing like where you need to take cease and desist essentially and and it was crazy to see that by time this actually had come out it had already had 20 000 views combined over other content creators i mean And that was just pulling the views and the strength of everything that should have been focused on Stern to other people. And it just was kind of wild. Like that 48 hours was just goofy. I heard the excitement was really high with the teaser trailer and the rainy photos started leaking out. People – it was hard to get an idea of what was going on with the game. So people were kind of like out. And it wasn't until the Gomez-Elwin trailer that's about five and a half minutes long. Which is great, by the way. If you haven't seen it, go see it because this is what CERN needs to do. Yes, 100%. This is what turned people around. I was talking to – I've talked to a handful of people across this industry, whether they're just the consumer, whether they're a distributor or whatever. they said that they saw an instant turnaround because Steam died really quick when those photos started to leak. And when that video came out, because the first trailer that showed was the one that had already been leaked. So when they actually showed the Gomez L11 people understood what was going on with the game. And even I was like, oh, well this makes a lot more sense.
    10:20
    I'm not going to lie, when I first saw Jaws from the photos, I was a little disappointed. I was like, what?
    10:26
    Yeah. Bruce, like the Jaws, Jaws itself, the shark or the game? What do you mean? Sorry. Well, okay. Are you talking to the sculpt? Because we're going to get to that too. Or are you talking about just the game in general? Just kind of the game in general. I didn't fully understand what was going on.
    10:43
    Like you said, it looked kind of empty because of the photos that had leaked. I'm like, but after they went through and they just not what they're doing. Yeah. And when I explained everything, it was like, oh, this is amazing. Like, this is next level. And I think the other problem, too, is we had been hearing from multiple sources that this had been internally called at Sterwin Keith's masterpiece. So I was like, well, he has a really high bar to meet with Godzilla. I mean, right now, I didn't think that we would see a game.
    11:19
    I never saw, when I got into the hobby, that a game would actually surpass Medieval Madness for number one on the pin side rating that we've all looked at, right? I know there's tons of problems with it, but it still gives you a litmus test on where things are. yeah the however because godzilla came out and it was such a monster game it actually the theme the playability the connection that it had with new players and old players it jumped up above that and rightfully so so to have that be your previous game it is a little challenging to follow up with a different game and this is a slightly different approach than godzilla godzilla has a lot of movement and a lot of wire forms where the ball is continually flying yeah this seems to be a little different but the vibe is different too because you are you're hunting a shark or you are the shark which is kind of fun yep that's really cool and so and And the other funny part, too, is like I think the first things kind of started flooding into you saw the teaser trailer and you're or the actual trailer. And you're like, why is the shark not eating the ball? That's almost like a give me eats everything in the movie. Why is he not eating the ball? Right. And you're like, why is that just a drop target? Why isn't that a shark fin? If you give the Sturred Insider podcast to listen, give it a day. Explain all that. They had all those ideas at the beginning. That was the original shark. Mick was eating the ball and the the drop target was originally a shark fin. But they found out very quickly, A, the ball-eating mech looks stupid, and it was hard because of the way it came out of the playfield. When it's top-down like the T-Rex, it's easy. Just a jaw opens up and it eats the ball, right? Yeah, but the magnet's hidden because you're looking on top of the T-Rex. So the visuals are actually not the mechanics that grab the ball. Yeah. But it's opposite when it's coming up from the field. Well, not only that, the game was not designed to have a subway in it. So what it's going to eat the ball and then spit it back out at you. Right. Like it means doesn't spit things out. Exactly. And so, so it was like, yeah, it just, they said it looked really dumb. It wasn't working. Right. And then that shark trim. Oh, go ahead. Don't imagine a jaws. Like the mouth of jaws is not round. Okay. Because there are some, some blow up things that do have a round mouth that look very awkward and you don't want that popping up out of the field. Yeah. And it's like, what do you want? Another, because you think of the T-Rex head on Jack Danger's game too. It just sits there and it opens. You've got like Gene Simmons kiss. Like you've just got this big ugly head sitting there that's just essentially a scoop. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's like with this, it's either you get the ball eating shark and you don't get that like captive ball multidirectional, which I think it's a first. Like the captive ball actually has multiple targets in it. So you've got to hit those. Yep. Like this mech is a lot cooler and more interesting to me than just a shark eating the ball. So. Yeah. And I'm not a huge fan of scoops either. Yeah. Scoops. And Elwynn has been on record saying he doesn't really love scoops. It pauses the gameplay. It slows things down. There's always. Man, if you have a scoop in roughly the middle of the play field, there's always going to be someone posting. My scoop is shooting straight down the middle. Yeah. So I told you that I really like that. I can think of is Godzilla's. Okay. That's also a mode starter and it's a hard shot. Yep. And then it, well, not only that, but it does your, what your tears and stuff like that too, that you've got, it is a hard shot. Like you're not aiming for it. And the way that it's positioned with the pop bumper, it doesn't really fall into there very much either. Like, you kind of have to be, you have to, you have to target it. And then the other one is world cup soccer's final draw, which is kind of, yeah, it's kind of a similar situation as it is with jaws it's kind of hard to hit it doesn't always fall into there and it's by the way the jaws advertisement just popped up on your avengers it's not amazing too like that's it's kind of fun kind of fun i i so i actually do have a quick update so i did finally do the big move okay and i brought godzilla rush Iron Maiden and Beatles downstairs. Nice. And I took up Pirates, I took up Black Rose, I took up Simpsons, and by the way, I'm not selling any of these. These are all going into storage because I still love the games.
    16:05
    Contrary to my friends voting, I actually did bring up Avengers. Wow. I brought it up because I still love it, but I felt like I'll have three Elwynn games out of my 10 down. If I had another one, it'd be four. And so I wanted to at least have some variety. I wanted Beatles down there to give it more of a gameplay. But it's been a lot of fun. And the funny thing is I installed Godzilla and immediately it just popped up the code update. And so that was actually really nice that I didn't have to download. I didn't have to do all that kind of stuff. So, and then Jurassic Park had an advertisement for Venom on it. So I think it's kind of fun, actually. I think it's, I think it's cool. I don't leave my games on very often, so it doesn't bother me that when I do that they are advertising. It's like, oh, like even this morning when I was turning them all on, it was cool to see all the Jaws trailers pop up.
    17:04
    Actually, that brings up another thought, too. It makes me wonder, because we were talking about this. Yep.
    17:09
    Does that mean that in your game's code, when it updates. So if people got thinking about this, data miners out there, take this into consideration. We know that most of the games roughly release in March or they release in March, April. Two to three a year. So it's either every six months or every four months. Yeah. So right now, beginning December, January, then March, April. So if you know a game's coming out and a bunch of code updates go out to all the games, right?
    17:37
    My thought is the new trailers are actually in the code I don know if they that far out I actually don know if they that far out do you think that they already recorded the trailers the trailer for jaws was done six weeks before release okay so like yeah i i would argue that the that would have to be like a quick code update so maybe that's something that you're thinking or because if you know just be a grab it could just be a grab that it's connected to the internet and it's like a pop-up ad on your phone or something so it has to be like a streaming thing then like it could be yeah so it's either one of two things it either downloads to your code and then there's a time stamp of saying hey it's it's january 2nd at past 10 a.m or past 11 yeah 10 a.m. Central Standard Time, you can start playing this on the pinball machines. Or it is a streaming thing that gets pulled from Stern. I bet it's the before.
    18:43
    You think it's a timestamp? I think it's a timestamp. The way that you could test this, and we haven't done this. Heaven forbid the queen dies, though. Yeah, heaven forbid. I think the thing is, is you would have to – one way that you could tell is – You'd have to disconnect. yeah you'd have to disconnect from the internet and if it kept playing after you've disconnected that means it's in the code and that timestamp anywho just some just some thoughts stern maybe depending on how you're doing this if it's via streaming that's smart but like if it's downloaded into the code people could easily like pick apart the code and pull the trailer out and then you six weeks and that's how it happened six weeks before as people were able to data mine it out who knows anyhow yeah because yeah just just some thoughts okay back to the shark fin though so the drop target so l1 and company originally had that shaped as a shark fin i don't know if it was like a legit shark fin or if they just had what it was they said that shark fins are are nature's natural ramps okay that's the that's the the kaboom ramp right in in i mean in toy story that's the kaboom ramp they said the ball was launching every like it was unpredictable right had it go from the lower play field up onto the upper play field they had it you know it was just ricocheting everywhere that's where like we have to go to a drop target like as much as this would be cool to have a shark fin it's not happening so yeah yeah and okay i will just piggybacking on what you just said remember when we talked to elwynn and he said look before i joined stern i had all these questions too. And I said, why don't they do this? Why don't they do that? And he said, after I, you know, after I was hired by them, you see behind the scenes and you realize these are questions they have asked also. And there is a legitimate reason behind, oh, we can't do it that way because of X, Y, or Z. And we need to remember that this is, I'm not spending 40 to 50 hours a week trying to design a game they are well and and i think it's interesting that the first the very first iterations all included this stuff that everyone's complaining about oh yeah oh yeah they've already thought of it like it's go ahead and complain but there's you're not changing it because they've already done it and they found out it doesn't work like even hearst and drake's like we did it it sucked you don't want it yeah he said it multiple times like it was like the the jaws eating blah blah anywho i like the i like the jaws sculpt i like the jaws bash toy i think it's like i like the look of it actually so i think it looks legit it's and this is kind of the first like actual not actual bash toy because like you can consider the skyscraper as a bash toy sure but i feel like that's more of a stand-up target though i kind of i don't know i just I find it interesting that this is like maybe like a Groot. Well, not a Groot. What am I looking for? Sparky off of Metallica. I feel like this is... Or the Well Walker. The Well Walker. But you're not getting 100% of that. You know what I'm saying? Because you've got the captive ball that sits on top of the shark. It also adds a little bit of unpredictability because you don't have a flat interface. And so it's less predictable. And, you know, hunting a shark should be a little unpredictable. Yeah. The other interesting part, too, I think, about all this is they talked about the upper playfield on the left. Elwin is not a fan of upper playfields because a lot of times you can get up there and stay up there indefinitely. So his goal was to make an upper playfield but make it to where, like, you couldn't stay up there. And so there's two shots to that. You've got the steering wheel that you can shoot into, which then sends it back to your upper flipper on the right side. Or you can shoot it. It's kind of like a big horseshoe that goes around the top, around the steering wheel. And then it drops into the in lane. I kind of, you can visualize Avengers, you know, how when it comes back through that, the pot belly ramp. I almost called it the banana ramp, but they didn't. Anywho, you know how it kind of comes back. The eggplant ramp. Yeah. As it kind of comes back up into the Avengers tower. Similar concept coming off of that horseshoe on the upper play field. so it it's it's pretty cool and it doesn't dominate the playfield my only concern about upper playfields typically is when they take up so much space yeah and i feel like this one doesn't i feel like this one's really it doesn't feel like it's in the way that's the thing i loved about white water you're not up there all the time but the problem is is that mini playfield is half a playfield like it's huge it takes up at least 25 it's like 40 of the game yeah and so It's a lot. Visually, it's cool, but yeah. Yeah, but you lose a lot of what you can do on the top right side of that play field, and I don't feel like that's the case with this one. Right.
    23:49
    Overall, really like it. Is it not Richard Dreyfuss? They got vocals from Richard Dreyfuss, which is awesome. Which, by the way, that picture was hilarious.
    23:59
    Which one? The picture of Keith and Richard Dreyfuss, and oh my gosh, who was the other guy in there? and they holding the donut of all things and the strip guys look super happy and Richard Dreyfuss looks like he's in a mugshot yeah that was great which is probably part and parcel with what Richard Dreyfuss' reputation is seems like a sour bob it was great to hear that they got, and granted it's 50 years later so obviously His voice was really different. Jerry Thompson touched on that in the podcast.
    24:40
    He gets a lot of it spot on, but it's hard because you can't do the screaming and yelling like he did 50 years ago. Right, when he was 20. Yeah. And so just working with that and whatnot.
    24:51
    But Chief Brody, I keep hearing everyone's complaining. Like, Chief Brody, why is he not on the game? Like, did you see the side of the premium artwork? It's him looking at the shark. And my understanding is he's in the clips. I don't know if they can show his face, but they said that they had access to all the movie clips, at least in the podcast, they said. Yeah. And even the final wizard mode is called Smile, You Son of a – Yeah. Which is Chief Brody. So obviously he's in the game, but I guess artistically they didn't want him on the play field. I don't know. I would like to find out a little bit because there's obviously a backstory to that. Yeah. Because you have Richard Dreyfuss' character. I can't remember what it is. But there's a reason why they didn't put Brody on there. Yeah. Now, is that necessary for the game?
    25:51
    And he's a big part of the movie. Yeah. But could you – here's the question. Can you get away with doing the game without him being prominent? Because aside from the clips. And do you feel like you're missing something? So what do you think, Josh? I think it depends. Obviously, we haven't played the game yet. Let's play the game and see. But it does feel like a little bit you're missing something if you don't have him front and center with the other three. Because let's be honest. I just watched Jaws again this last week. Yeah. Fresh in my mind. It's been a couple years. and I was looking at it from like a, I'm going to make a pinball machine perspective, right? A lot of the chief Brody stuff is talking, which you wouldn't use in a pinball machine. Like that first hour of jaws is a lot of like building suspense. And yeah, there's like him and his son in the pond and the shark going after him. But it seems like once you hit that last 45 minutes, it's Brody, Quint and Hooper. Right. And it is, it is mostly them. And then Quint almost becomes the star at that point because he's not really in the first hour, so they kind of showcase him more. So I think it was really smart for L1 to go from the perspective of Quint's a shark hunter. That's why they went to him. So you get to play as Quint hunting sharks, which makes perfect sense.
    27:17
    Like I said, it gives me hope if they view some of the most classic lines of Brody's in this game and they've tailored around some of what he said. I think it adds to the ambiance of the game. I don't know. Do I really need Chief Brody's face on the play field? I guess if this was my dream thing, I probably would be like, what the crap? It would be like having the Ninja Turtles without having Leonardo on the play field.
    27:42
    Because Leonardo's your leader. And so I just, I don't know. I'm torn both ways. I can see it from both angles, but I feel like you do get Brody. I think you get more Brody in this game than you would in other iterations because they were given some gray area to work with. And it's hard because the lips are really tight on this one. I don't know what happened between the licensor. Because you've got an estate, right? It's not really... Quint's actor has passed away. Brody's actor has passed away. And so it's like... It seems like when it comes to estates, they're a lot more tight-knit on what they're saying because it's... Yeah, it's hard. Hard to figure out.
    28:25
    Okay, do I wish Brody was on there? Yeah, I do. Brody is the story for me. Even though Shaw's character is great.
    28:38
    He's that crazy hillbilly who happens to be a sailor who shows up. However, does it feel like we're radically missing something? Maybe a little, but not tons. It still feels like as long as we have the clips, he's still in the game. so it's is he in the game as much as i would like no but i think i this is first impressions right guys i i haven't played it yeah i i think i think it's a disservice for people comparing this to jurassic park i've been jurassic park had nedry and that was it that was it right yeah even then it was very minimal on nedry i feel like you get a ton more with jaws and that's that is totally fair and you don't get Jeff Goldblum sprawling out with his shirt open. But, you know.
    29:31
    But overall, okay, we've brought it up once or twice, but we've got to talk about this art. Michael Bernard, I felt like, knocked out of the park and that premium black back glass perspective of Quint getting eaten by the shark. You're going into the gaping maw of death with a machete. Holy crap. I didn't think I'd see anything like that on Star Wars. Isn't that like the most brutal metal thing you've ever seen? That is really – well, if you look at all of the art on the premium, the shark looks terrifying. Yeah. I mean he's coming to eat you. Yes. And that's – it's – the funny thing is that one, it seems like Michael had a little more leeway. because if you look at the pro flyer, the back glass is the movie poster, right?
    30:26
    It's basically that. And the same thing with, oh, I'm pulling up the LE. The LE is the movie poster and the pro is the movie poster. So that's obvious. Okay, there's a reason why you're going to do that. It's because that is the iconic visual that people associate with Jaws. Yeah, even if you took away Jaws lettering, you saw that, it's Jaws. Yeah, it is. It's not Sharknado, kids. Yeah.
    30:53
    But the premium flyer, that was just fun. When I saw that he was able to do the shark chewing the orca up, I mean, that was really fun. And that's my favorite art package because it is – Oh, hands down. Yeah, it's fun. however i know people were concerned because rush was some people really liked that some people didn't and yeah we always need to remember the artist is limited by what the licensor requests and wants there were rush people who said ah we don't like the the middle of the playfield you know with the with the heads of the band like well that's what they wanted it's so so what is he going to do and yeah and they all look they all look like that which is maybe it makes me laugh because he posted he's like i know you guys were complaining about the rush heads so here is a close-up of quentin hooper yeah at every stroke and it it's insane it's it he did a really amazing job so i he's he is a gifted artist this is fun too because this is a different thing with rush everything felt like it was kind of easter eggs from their 19 albums yeah like everywhere this it is a feel that you are in the ocean and the and the ship is breaking away and you see uh brody and hooper up there uh or not brody quentin hooper up there and so it feels like yeah you are in the action and it is it's really good so hats off to michael on this one um it's It's pinball art is hard. It really is. Well, it's funny when you're doing original line drawn art, it's, it's hard. Yep. And when they released the Ellie art package, I'm not gonna lie. I was a little underwhelmed. Like I got where they were coming from. I was like, this seems I'm so used to like jam packed Jeremy Packard, like almost every little Easter egg and everything's in there. Yeah. And so I was a little flustered with it, even though like that, that foil on top of it looks amazing. It looks great. It felt underwhelming to me. So when I saw the premium art package, I'm like, this. This is our package. And I'm glad it's on the premium because I don't want to pay for the price for the LE. And depending on the game, I'm probably going to do a premium. And so this is the best looking art package. And it makes me happy to see that. Well, there are different vibes from all the art packages, right? So if you look at the LE, everything is underwater from the shark's perspective. Yeah.
    33:33
    And the premium is the one that's, that is the above the surface view of the shark attacking things. And so that's why, that's my preference, but they're all excellent.
    33:48
    So thankfully, I know that people are nervous every time the art comes out because some people, they connect, some people they don't. for this the art it connects with me overall i feel like michael has knocked it out of the park with this package he's done an amazing job and i can't wait to get a premium so i guess that brings us down to the last question are you getting one of these games scott yes uh and i am i am to the point where i do need to sell games if i buy one yeah but this looks like it's something i definitely want to get my hands on. I have all the Elwins, except for the Bond 60.
    34:26
    All the Cornerstone Elwins, I would like to say, I definitely want to give this one a try. Definitely. I'm stoked. It's been interesting because the rumor has been they're going to start producing these here. Pros here this month, LEs next month, premiums in March. and and all it's like a limited run on most of these and i'll probably be closer to summer i'm guessing yeah my guess is is they said that the next premium run would probably be june oh maybe time for the fourth of july because we know amity means friendship that's true so i think a lot of these people like if you if it's hard because a lot of people a lot of pinball companies are taking like a non-refundable deposit right now yeah it's hard to say like yes I want in and then go play the game. You're like, eh, nevermind. I'm going to move on. So definitely play it first, you know, find which arcades get in jaws for you play the pro and it give you an idea of how the premium going to play Or if you like the pro more Other interesting part too Ellie's went up on Stern's site Thursday morning, around noon. Well, yeah, I guess that was not morning. Anywho, but they sold out in less than 10 minutes. Right. What does that mean for the market? Right. Now, the question is, so they're 1,000 again? Yeah. Let me just do 1,000. how many do you think Stern sells on their website? And this is total speculation. We have no idea.
    36:01
    Less than 10%. So we're talking a hundred or less. That's what I'm guessing. Yeah. So, but that's a good sign. That's a pretty big chunk. Considering most of Shibari's only get about, okay, let's say half goes across these half stay here.
    36:15
    I bet, I bet you get five to 10 per distributor. So, well, it depends on the size. Yeah, it depends. If you're a small distributor, you probably get two or three. Yeah. If you're a bigger distributor, you probably, okay. If you're a medium distributor, probably 10. If you're a volume distributor, you're probably, I'm guessing you're probably looking at 25. Yeah. So that, I mean that, that would break down. That's actually pretty good that, uh, now were we concerned that an Elwin game was not going to sell out? And I know that that's a benchmark for LEs, but were you concerned at all? Did you have any question?
    36:55
    Just a hair considering distributors are still sitting on Venom LEs, like a bunch of them. Yes. And granted, like Venom's a different monster, right? Like Venom.
    37:06
    I don't know what the heck happened there. We could all go into the deep dive, and we have for the past six months on this game. We have. Now, Venom, they took some risks. Yes. We asked them to take risks. They did. so you have a game that is it's basically achieve or time-based i guess you spend enough time in the game and you're going to work through it they had that they had a different philosophy on the play field so the play field changes in the premium depending on which character you are which is a pretty impressive engineering feat if you think about it you're basically making a four in one game and then on top of that you have a i'm sorry a c-list title yeah venom is not a it's not something that a lot of people were clamoring for may have been different if it were the movie assets but we know that would probably cost way more if you got right uh if you got uh ryan reynolds uh tom hardy tom hardy yeah so that took a lot of risks this seems to be getting a little bit more back to basics standard type play field it is each game i'm sure they're probably going to have some sort of elements of incorporating the insider connected to experience to maybe make the game a little easier as you pump more quarters into it yeah i mean that's pretty much all those button masher games that were in the 90s you know teenage mutant ninja turtles simpsons those type of games if you plugged in enough quarters you would win yeah and that is certainly a way of driving people on site to say hey you're uh you're at the bar why don't you go and put to five dollars in venom so my understanding too is is the the experience point system from venom is going to be in certain games going future going into the future but when i talked to owen about that specifically he says it is in jaws but it doesn't progress you through the game it's not like one of those ones where it checkpoints where you're at and then you can progress further and honestly i think that's a smart idea i think so the checkpoint i think that's the only time we're ever going to see it's on venom i think honestly i think that's part of the problem why venom didn't sell very well because it was like well why buy venom when i can go to location play it online yeah or on on location and get the same yeah and so i i think going forward if they do keep the system like they they're planning on doing it it's going to be implemented differently so it sounded exciting with what they had planned for jaws in the experience system overall i'm i'm in on a premium i'm excited worst case scenario like i like i said i i i back out but i don't think that's happening i don't think i have till june to decide that so there is enough history with elwynn games that you know it is at least going to be a quality experience yeah okay it still may not be your favorite game but it will be in your top half of your collection yep so i am totally willing to do this and that is a fun i i i loved when they showed the the chum in the water and that's that's a cool vibe where you put the chum in the water and the red lights start popping up around the shark area that that's a that's fun visually it's cool it's way cool for me personally owen games are are my jam and so So it's been two and a half years since Godzilla released, which is kind of crazy to say.
    40:55
    But within that time, I've learned – because I've went through – I just not sat on the same collection, right? Like I've had multiple games in and out since Godzilla has released. I've learned more and more everything I'm looking for in pinball, L1 does in his games. Right. And so I've learned – I'm getting older. I'm tired of moving games in and out It's a pain in the butt They're definitely not like your basement, Scott I've got straight shots in my garage I don't have any stairs I even have a pinball cart So it's not terrible for me to move pinball I just don't want to do it anymore It's just It's a pain Moving pinball machines is not easy Absolutely Less moving the better And I'm really happy with Foo Fighters I took a chance on it. I bought it. I did play it before I bought it, and I really enjoyed it.
    41:53
    But I feel like there's some diamonds in the rough. I feel like there's games outside of it, ones I really enjoy. But for the most part, like I played Avengers for the first time in, I don't know, months. And it just, it is such a great shooting game. I love the setup of it. I personally like the code. A lot of people say that's the downturn of it, but I think it's, it's complicated. If you want it to be, it's straightforward. If you want it to be. And so it's, it's like Jurassic park. You don't have to collect all the people. Yep. You can, you can blast through with your Jeep and never rescue someone. Yep. It's true. So Ellen's jaws is coming in. I'm excited. I've learned it's more about the gameplay for me than it is the theme itself. I love turtles. turtles left for godzilla like turtles is my dream thing and it left for godzilla other interesting thing that stern announced that it's kind of um getting shuffled under all the jaws stuff no more anniversary editions and they're playing on remastering dnd games so okay so did they tell me about did they officially state that or did they this was a press release from stern okay all right because i did hear it i mean i i've been working a lot the last two weeks so i didn't see that it's death davis was the one that released this press release he's the one that stamped his name to it so why did they do that you have to ask that if you're doing a press release why would they say anything so here's the thing with pinball a lot of pinball sales are slow burn right like a lot of it's people getting into the hobby they're like the first thing you do was what's my favorite theme like ninja turtles so you go on google ninja turtles pinball that's what i did and at that time it was only data east ninja turtles so i bought one for a thousand dollars and i got it and i'm like this game sucks and then you you start digging deeper and deeper well a lot of distributors that's how it works for a lot of distributors they get a call for wwe or whatever and like well we don't have that game but we can direct you to some others the thing about pinball though is you need money up front that's the wonderful part about the le system it's pretty much your it's your jump starting money right you're you're helping fund that release it's it's a fundraiser okay right so the problem is is people buying le's are they have the nice pockets and really the difference between the le and the premium is the haha i've got the shiny it's limited no one else can have it essentially it's also upgraded like The things that I do like about L.A.'s is I like having some of the bells and whistles on my games. And you can do them yourself with the premium, but it's some effort. For example, one of the guys that came over to help me move, he was looking at a new game. And I was mentioning, you know, Godzilla is a great game. and they were playing with my friend gary who he's the one who sold me jurassic park he's the he's my friend who's also in pinball uh i mentioned hey i don't have the shaker motor installed in in godzilla yet and he said oh the premiums don't come with shaker motors no but you can do it it just takes some effort yeah so the nice thing about the end same thing with Art Blades, right? The nice thing about the LE is it's out of the box. It is already customized.
    45:29
    So what we were starting to hear is that these anniversary editions were burning out those LE people, the ones that were always I'm always in, doesn't matter what it is. You send me an LE within whatever you guys produce them. Here's your $13,000. Well, the problem is now you've got like Elvira is a great example you've got three or four editions four editions on elevator yeah and so then the person's like well now you've got roughly what about two to three thousand games out there that this this is no longer limited edition like it's right it's got more editions out there than than the premium and the pro combined or probably not in stern's case but the point being is is all these le buyers like we're not buying anymore so even though the anniversary editions were doing good this past year i think stern's playing the long game of like we can't lose our upfront money we lose our le buyers we we shoot ourselves in the foot because we can't you can't have distributors sitting on a ton of stock which is what they're doing right now right and so it's a short-term gain long-term loss correct and so i think they're doing this to make sure that the long term stays solid which they need to do if we want to see pinball still thriving and it reassures the le buyer who if that is a big deal to you to have something that's limited and that's what the title is it says limited edition yeah so if that's a big deal then that reassures them that it truly is well does this prevent them from doing future premium versions no they said that's what they're going to keep doing premium and pros and I bet you they do black and white alternate versions though. Yes. Yeah. I think they'll still do. Cause like with cat woman edition, it was a premium. Yep. I think they'll still navigate those waters. I think you still lose the addition for. Yeah. And so they did say that it's still going to do difference of pros and premiums, but overall the Ellie's the thousands, what you get, we're shutting it down once that, that numbers hit and we're not going to be pushing those boundaries. anymore. So I think it was very smart of them to do that. So it definitely, uh, placated some of the, some of the concerns that the, the high end buyers have. I totally agree with that. Now does that, um, it kind of brings up a lot of people have said, I would like the, uh, I would like the bond 60, but I didn't want to pay the $15,000 it was. Yeah. But does that open the door for a premium version of that, but not a Bond?
    48:15
    Maybe. I don't know. They put a lot of money into the score reel system. I really, personally, me, I really felt like Bond 60 was an experiment. Yeah. It was an experiment to see where the ceiling was. It was an experiment to see how much power the L1 name actually had. Even though I don't feel like you got the full L1 experience, Because with Elwin, I know we call them game designers, but really they should be called like the directors. Architects. Because, you know, they do design the play field. But like with Elwin's case, every step of the way, he's the one that's doing the code. He's the one that's game testing over and over. You want to know why Elwin's so sick? of like once the game actually releases he takes a break for like a month or so or a more longer from playing the game because he has played it every day looking for bugs that's that's also why when his game comes out the gates his games are so smooth playing is because he's constantly trying to find bugs he's he's with the artist he's with every aspect of the game like we even heard this from jack danger with foo fighters it was a combination effort between zombie yeti danger raymond davidson it's but they're really the director and how this is all getting put together right and so i think it's kind of short changing them as calling like they are the game designer but i feel like when you hear that you only think of will they design the play field and that's not the case they're designing the whole game so i don't know where i was going with that but i think overall i think that this is this is going to be very well received and And I think that when it comes to the anniversary editions and whatnot, too, I think it's very smart for Stern to protect all this. I guess we're going back to the Bond 60th. We're getting back there. Sorry for the long walk around.
    50:11
    But I think really Bond 60 was an experiment. And I don't know if it gets revisited in much of any other sense because I think it was more of a litmus test than it was an actual game. because you're really not getting the full level. Yeah, it's on the level. Yeah, I think we'll see the design maybe pop back up later as maybe these additions that they do, like Heavy Metal, and they do Supreme and stuff like that. I just don't see much more of them revisiting that Bond 60th well, especially with how hard the licensor was. This is, from my understanding, the Bond licensor is the hardest licensor that they ever dealt with. So it just, it was what it was. So, okay.
    50:58
    So, okay. I am going to throw this in just FYI. We still have time left. If you want to do the Twippy voting, our friends over at This Week in Pinball, they are still doing the Twippy.
    51:12
    And so go ahead, put it in. There's rank choices. It's very easy to do. And just go support them. go put in some votes. So they'd appreciate that. We'd appreciate it too. I was telling Scott before we started recording, I'm like, I'm already going to congratulate. I know who the, because they've, what they've done, they've taken all the content creators and singled them down. They've consolidated them. Obviously we talked about unnecessary drama.
    51:39
    And unfortunately I think it hurt the Twippies, not necessarily us talking about it, but just the situation hurt them. So I want to make sure that they feel supported and they don't feel submarine. And it was a compromise. It was a compromise to be able to find, okay, how can we also reward people who are independently trying to produce pinball entertainment that aren't part of the companies? And it was definitely an acceptable compromise, and I support them in it. but with them singling it or narrowing it down to one, uh, one category, I'm already calling it right now. Right. Nap arcade. You are winning content creator. Like Jason puts a lot of effort, a lot of effort. If you don't go to his site, he, he does a good job. I would be shocked if it is anyone outside of nap arcade. Absolutely shocked because his numbers are insane. Like, I don't know how you compete with that. Like, yeah. And Jason does a great job, but we always appreciate him covering. He covers our content and it's a friend of the show. Absolutely. Yeah. We'll have to have him on. Yep. Let's do, you know, Nate shivers used to do five fast things. We're kind of running out of time. I still have five, including the twippies. Okay. That's, that's our first number one fast thing.
    53:04
    Second fast thing. Pemberg's back. Woo. All thousand spots right No 120 However okay there were some people who were super disappointed with this so this is my fast take on it You have to walk before you run They sold, they liquidated everything. And so you are, it would be impossible to do it at that level the way it was at this time period. So it's a reboot. It's a Pinberg 2.0, I'm going to call it. and it's 120, still high competition, still great players. So they're going to start this. I predict that this will grow organically over time, which is exactly how you want to do it. So I'm excited. I am not a top 120 player, okay? So this isn't for me, but I'm really excited for the Raymond Davidsons, the Travis Murys out there, the Tom Graffs, the Bowen Cairns, all these guys, the Keith Elwins, the guys from everybody who we know is a great player, we want to make sure that they have that ability to compete. I'm really glad that it's coming back. Fast thought. Awesome. I can't wait to watch it. I hope it's very successful. I hope that it is only 120 spots. I hope they all sell out. F5 day, So February 5th is the day that tickets go on sale. Make sure you're poised. For those that have an Apple, just press refresh on your website. But F5 was to reset your refresh. Anyway, it's an inside joke. But it's great to see this back after five years. COVID really sadly did kill this off. Yeah, it did. But my guess is within the next five years, it'll probably take about five years to get back to that 1,000, if not longer. I don't even know if we'll get to that 1,000 that fast. but quality over quantity right if their goal is to double every year from here on out then yeah you'd be hitting about a thousand right but quality over quantity exactly okay i'm excited next fast thing spooky announced a new scooby-doo topper have you seen this no i haven't it is insanely cool it's got a for those that haven't seen it it's got scooby up on there. I can't remember which villain is. There's one up there, but there's a bookcase on there. It looks like a bookcase, but then the bookcase slides open and there's an LCD in there and it gives you more clips. It does a bunch of different stuff. I know one of the complaints is people are like, well, Scooby includes their toppers. That's great and everything, but the toppers are just a bunch of flat plastics. Honestly, a free topper is not terrible. It's a Walmart display topper. I mean, it's it's what you would get. It's good. I'm glad. But it is like one of those things that you see a cardboard cut out on top of the DVD display. But I think with this, they're taking the topper game to the next level. And I'm fine with paying for this one. This one's insanely cool. So if you haven't give that give that a look on Spooky's YouTube page. If Scooby does your thing, get it. Yep. Our friend Donald Garrison with Don's Pinball Podcast received an exclusive from a mystery company. It was a picture of Princess Bride Pinball. What do you think of Princess Bride Pinball, Scott?
    56:39
    Love the show. Okay. Definitely top five all-time greatest films. Hands down. If you have not seen it, it is awesome. It's sweet. It's charming. Kids like it. Adults like it. It still holds up. It's everything.
    56:54
    Pinball. It'd be fun. It really would be. It's a fun theme. I would much rather have this theme than Labyrinth.
    57:03
    However, that's probably, I'm guessing that may be where it's coming from. You think it's coming from Burrows of Fun? I don't know. Maybe. But who else do you think would be doing it? Might be a brand new company. A new, new company? Maybe. A new, new company. Okay. but it's it definitely is a theme that is worth exploring so i would definitely be interested in getting it or i think it's at least seeing where it is yeah yeah it's a it's an a-list theme it is it's a classic thing everyone can quote it i just and there's it's one of those ones i'm gonna have to watch again i watched it probably in the last couple years but it's just it's such a great movie and so it's a great feel-good movie on so many levels yep so prodretti pinball you know those guys that keep making the 2.0 kits world win that has the crap storm and funhouse 2.0 they're they're over and based in europe but they got the licensing agreement with planetary pinball to start reproducing remakes of bally williams games this is from the ground up this is cabinets and everything and their planetary pinball did release a press release after that saying they're not dropping their licensing agreement with with chicago c right or with haggis and so this is just one more person producing games for them i've heard a very mixed bag with this because pinball brothers is the one that's going to be making these games manufacturing these games and so the quality is definitely not cgc quality okay but but nobody is it's true it's a very very high bar is the bar if you're if you're searching for the bar it's cgc yes 100 so there are some concerns with these games being built but i think it's good for the the industry overall because this makes it easier for europe to have access to these games i don't know i'm i'm excited to see what they have up their sleeve uh i wonder if it's kind of like starting with a reimagined revisited dnds okay the bottom line though is these games that they are targeting the 2.0 kits kids, they are long in the tooth.
    59:29
    If you were built during this era, you need to schedule your colonoscopy because it is time. So these games, when they were built, they never were intended to go into homes. So it's impossible to find a home use only of these games. If you are trying to buy one and then put the money into it for a 2.0 kit, then it's getting a little hard to find these things. And so that is the awesome thing, is that you're going to have new options available. Yeah. Now, this gets into other questions. Are they going to be able to play the original? Is it like the Fathom Mermaid Edition, where you can play the original or the updated? That's how it is with the current 2.0 kits, where you have the original and the update. But the visuals are different, right? Because you do have a different back glass and stuff like that. So, that's, hey, more options for everybody's interest is good. And as long as the flagship companies are still selling the games and producing and they're healthy, having these smaller options, that is a good option. That tells you that there is life in an industry when a special interest manufacturer can find an itch. Yep. Well, and the other interesting part to all this is – so this is our fifth fast thing. Nap Arcade had covered this months ago that Twilight Zone is being produced by a mystery company, and it's not CGC, and that they would be releasing these who knows when, but they were already manufacturing. They had a picture of them lined up or something like that.
    61:11
    I can confirm that Pendretti is not the one that's remaking Twilight Zone. So does that mean we have another mystery company? That's four companies. So if you do Barrels of Fun, if you now count Pendretti, Princess Bride Pinball, if that's a new company, and then you have Hexa Pinball, which just came out with the Space Hunt. And now you've got someone making Twilight Zone. So does that mean Planetary's got another company they're working with with remakes? That'd be four companies doing remakes of Bally Williams games. It's interesting. I wonder if this is going to be tethered to one of the major companies.
    61:56
    Because it's kind of hard to have all these independent companies building and maintaining quality, maintaining the feasibility.
    62:06
    So is this, so some of the companies out there, do they have an extra line that they could rent out? My Medieval Madness was made by Stern, actually. Yeah. So there are things that you need to look at and say, well, it's been done before. So it makes sense that someone like a Stern with their big facility, can they throw another line in there?
    62:31
    Jersey Jack pinball can can they manufacture that? Stern and Jersey Jack pinball would be my top two as great options just because they have proved that they can do volume. So I do like that. Other options, you have Spooky, you have American Pinball. And they're smaller manufacturers. They produce less.
    62:58
    American Pinball may be actually a good fit because they're able to produce things. Aside from they have more special interest games too. So that could be a good option for them. But yeah, I'm excited that they're able to resurrect some of these old themes that you can't play in the state that they were designed. Because after they've been on location for a couple of years, you're not going to get the same experience. This is why, in many ways, it's a little hard for a home collector to go to a non-well-maintained location and put money into it. Because you know how the games are supposed to play, and if they're not playing that way. So finding these games, these 30, 40-year-old games. My oldest game is Black Rose. That's 1992, 1993. That's 40 years. so it's nice to see new life into these games before we wrap this up i want to talk some numbers it has been five years i know people are doing like this wrapped thing and and you know they talk numbers i just want to do some i want to give a big thanks to back in november we announced we had over half a million listens as it stands this morning i did the numbers right before we started recording 546,344 combined listens across all of our platforms. That's YouTube, uh, SoundCloud, Apple. Amazing. This past year. So 2023 was the first year that every single month had five digit listens every month. We had no less than 10,000 listens. Considering we put out two episodes a month, I feel like that's pretty impressive.
    64:54
    March was our best month. I wonder why, considering there was seven releases that month. But overall, it just, we, it's insane to think that we started this five years ago and I know it's not, you know, I appreciate the support. I appreciate, appreciate the listens. Obviously we're, we're saying stuff that you guys want to hear.
    65:19
    it just it's crazy if you would have told me when we started this that we'd be getting 20 000 plus listens a month on average i would have said you're crazy but it's great to see the support we want to thank the fans that tune in that message us that we've met and i mean i i don't know if i would have ever made friends with the triple dream guys outside of this I don't know if I would have made friends with like Tim Lean or Glenn Wechter. I really appreciate those guys as well. Poor men's, you know, Drew and Ian, I'm not going to lie. The kind of opposite of the lifestyle I live.
    65:57
    We're family men. So there is that. It makes me giggle. Like it's, it's, it's fun to see that we're different, but you have similar interests. And I love that. I've said it about pinball. So thank you. And thank you guys for all your support. flipping the script on autism would have not been even a pipe dream for something I could have done without pinball with people like Stern and Jersey Jack and American and pinball network and, and Michael and Michael Bernard from the, the jaws. He's the one who did the, did the art package for it. And that was, that was donated. It was amazing that he was able to, He was willing to do that and to contribute too. So it just shows what a great guy he is too. People like Franchi, you know, giving us stuff to give away. Christopher Franchi. I mean, it's just, it's amazing that it did as well as it did. And I can't say anything more than thank you. Thank you to all of you that have made this possible. Last five years, we don't see a stop at any time soon.
    67:05
    If anything, this last month, I did hear once or twice that like, good for triple drain trying to help resurrect loser kids thank you career and i'm like yes thank you triple drain that was really great if you do a to to be generous enough to do a merry christmas episode with us which did over 5 000 listens in less than 48 hours yeah that was a combined total between and it was like joel was saying he's like i hope the numbers come out even it came out pretty even their youtube numbers a little bit better but honestly they're better Have you seen our faces? I'm like, yeah. Have you seen our faces? Come on. They've got Tom on camera. So obviously they're going to have better numbers than us. But overall, the numbers were pretty dead even. And so it was pretty awesome to see that. I mean, 5,000 listens in 48 hours. Insane.
    67:52
    But yeah, December was our second best month behind March. And so it was just great. It's insane. Do you have anything to add to that, Scott? No, just I would also wish everybody thank you. Thank you for allowing us to be a part of your life, to be a part of your entertainment package. And I'm I'm always grateful for people who have reached out. I have met some amazing friends over the last five years, and it would never have happened if Josh didn't decide he wanted to start a pinball podcast. And including Josh, I mean, I I message Josh daily. so it's it's been a great friendship and uh getting to know him and his family it's really helped me find something that is not just work and so i i'm thankful for uh being a part of this yep same here and and truly you are my best friend scott like i'm i'm glad that i have made this friendship with you and it's it's been amazing like likewise my friend so the only thing i want a shout out is i got a freaking sweet john stockton jersey for christmas yeah he's arguably the best point guard in all of nba history maybe second to my magic johnson like i'll get magic johnson he has five rings stockton didn't have any so i understand magic also played center one game yeah so yeah but but when you've got what three of the top records in the india that will never Red Broken. All assists. He is the guy who made the magic happen for everyone else. Yeah. And stills. And he, in his, what was it, 18-year career? Maybe it wasn't that long. I think it was 18 years. It was long, yeah.
    69:40
    They said he missed 29 games in 18 years. That's insane. That's unheard of. Yeah. Especially when you hear about load management and all that stuff. Anyhow. Yeah. I'm very proud of John Stockton. I'm glad that he was on the Jazz. Yeah. He started here and stayed here the whole time. Yeah. Cool. If you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. Also, we're on all the socials, X, Instagram, Facebook, Twitch, YouTube, subscribe, like, whatever, all that stuff. I want to say thank you to the combined 5,000 listeners we have over all of our platforms. And it's 2024, baby. and we just had a brand new Keith Elwin release. Can this year get any better? Life's good. Send us off, Scott. All right. Go buy Jaws. Chomp.
    70:50
    Thank you.