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EP03 PinTalk with Sterling and David

The Pinball Studio Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 21m·analyzed·Jul 31, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.021

TL;DR

Spooky/Barrels game launches discussed alongside Pinburgh tournament recap and designer analysis.

Summary

Luke from Spooky and hosts Sterling and David discuss the newly announced Bon Jovi pinball game by Barrels of Fun, initially skeptical of the theme but impressed by David Van Es playfield layout and mechanics. They also cover David's Pinburgh tournament experience (270 players, competitive depth), impressions of Sonic and other recent releases, praise for Keith Elwin design philosophy, speculation about Jack Danger future projects, and various tournament logistics including power outages and phone usage rulings.

Key Claims

  • Bon Jovi pinball game was just released yesterday by Barrels of Fun

    high confidence · Sterling and David open the episode discussing a recent game launch; Luke from Spooky confirmed it

  • David Van Es layout design is exceptional, combining elements from Godzilla, Lord of the Rings, Rush, and Beetlejuice

    high confidence · David's detailed gameplay analysis: 'It's like they combined Godzilla with like Lord of the Rings slash Rush slash the worm from Beetlejuice'

  • Pinburgh had 270 players competing this year

    high confidence · David states: 'I want to say that there was 270 players this year'

  • Sonic's upper playfield loop had poor release mechanics that need calibration

    high confidence · David reports: 'The loop-de-loop was not feeding great on this one. It was not super smooth. It was kind of clunky coming out of there'

  • Keith Elwin is designing a Fallout pinball game with a lower playfield

    medium confidence · Sterling: 'Kale was on one of his podcasts and he said that there's a lower playfield on that' referring to Fallout

  • Jack Danger transitioned from full-time design to a different role at Stern and is considering a fan project

    medium confidence · Sterling: 'I really wish Jack Danger would continue to design games. I know he's supposed to be doing something in the background, some fan project or something'

  • Stern hired a new designer with homebrew experience who may take over elements of Jack Danger role

    medium confidence · Sterling: 'you know that new guy that they hired is going to push for some wild stuff' and 'he's going to kind of take over the danger role at Stern'

  • Pinburgh uses custom tournament software designed by Kevin Martin, not Matchplay

    high confidence · David: 'I know that Kevin Martin is kind of like the overlord of it. I'm pretty sure that he designed the software. They use custom software, so they're not using Matchplay'

Notable Quotes

  • “I genuinely think that Bon Jovi is lame as fuck. I think it's super lame.”

    Sterling @ early in discussion — Illustrates initial negative reaction to Bon Jovi theme announcement before gameplay changed their minds

  • “Dune is like a masterpiece, in my opinion. I love that game. It's amazing.”

    David @ mid-discussion — Establishes David Van Es's reputation for exceptional playfield design before Bon Jovi praise

  • “I watched the stream and I was like, OK, all right. I'm kind of warming up to it. So last night... I woke up today and just felt completely different.”

    David @ mid-discussion — Documents the community's sentiment shift on Bon Jovi after gameplay video release

  • “It's like Elwin, how they let him do his homebrew for like Iron Maiden.”

    Sterling @ late discussion — References Keith Elwin's homebrew project, suggesting similar potential for Jack Danger fan project

  • “The format is incredible... the way that they organize it, it's just very thoughtful. It's great.”

    David @ Pinburgh section — High praise for Pinburgh's tournament organization and logistics

  • “There's no way to recreate that level of competition anywhere at home. That's a once-a-year chance to go against all of those good players.”

    David @ Pinburgh section — Emphasizes Pinburgh's unique competitive depth and value

  • “I would say that this is probably the best run tournament that I have ever been to.”

    David @ Pinburgh section — Strong endorsement of Pinburgh's organization and execution

  • “if you are in a one player game, so like an old EM, you cannot get on your phone in between balls because there's a chance that you could be looking at rules”

    David @ tournament rulings section — Explains obscure but real IFPA tournament rules that affect competitive play

Entities

LukepersonDavid BenkepersonSterlingpersonDavid Van EspersonKeith ElwinpersonJack DangerpersonCarlpersonBon Jovigame

Signals

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Bon Jovi features left outlane ball save with mini flipper ramp mechanism combined with main heart shot magnet; compared favorably to Deadpost and Foo Fighters ball saves; possible advanced techniques like Shatz shot interaction with main flipper

    high · David analyzes the 'left out lane ball save...a ramp with a little mini flipper' and theorizes about shot routing: 'if you flipped it kind of like a Shatz...it looks like it could maybe make it'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Bon Jovi has smooth ramp shots and ball flow; left ramp alternates feed destinations (left flipper vs right) between shots, adding strategic variety

    high · David observes: 'the game flows and it shoots really well...The ramps look smooth...the left ramp changes where it ends up. It alternates'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Sonic has repetitive animation clips (3-4 seconds looped with motion blur transitions) that become visually stale for spectators; may be early code issue needing longer clips

    high · David criticizes: 'I don't like that the clips that they use are literally like three or four second clips...it plays the same three or four seconds over and over and over. And it gets kind of repetitive'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Sonic's loop-de-loop release mechanism is clunky and not feeding smoothly despite clean entrance; requires operational calibration

    high · David: 'The loop-de-loop was not feeding great...It was just like what you saw in the videos going in...The release was not great on this one'

  • ?

    design_innovation: David Van Es evolving from Labyrinth (creative but clunky) → Dune (masterpiece) → Bon Jovi (refined layout); establishing himself as top-tier designer alongside Keith Elwin, Jack Danger, Minyer, and Carl

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.055

0:00
Music Music Hello and welcome to episode 3 of Pintalk, where myself and David Benke talk everything pinball, Along with what's going on in the tournament scene. Anyway, welcome back to the show, David. How are you doing, sir?
0:39
Yeah, man. I got back from Pinnberg and three new games dropped. I got to play Sonic. I competed in Pinnberg. I just needed to talk to somebody about this stuff and there's nobody here to talk to. So I was like, let's just record something. And then we got that awesome game launch yesterday.
1:02
This is Luke, by the way, from Spooky. He's excited about it, man. He is. He told me if I put it in the episode, he would listen. So I had to throw it in the episode. Oh, my God. Well, I guess we should just start there. Yeah, man, that's what everyone's talking about today. So, yeah, let's start off with that. What's your thoughts on Bon Jovi? Was anybody asking for this theme at all? Zero people asked for it. Zero. Except for maybe David Van Ness. But I will say that yesterday, whenever I got confirmation that that's really what it was, and I saw the initial leak pictures, I was bummed. I was like so bummed out. I mean, obviously, you and I were texting, and I was not happy, you know.
1:56
Sometimes you just got to sleep on it, man. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I don't like the theme, but I did watch the gameplay, and I do think it looks like a fairly good shooter. It looks pretty sick. Yeah. It looks pretty sick. I mean, listen, Bon Jovi, not only is it a thing that I'm not into, it's not like I am neutrally not into it. I genuinely think that Bon Jovi is lame as fuck. I think it's super lame. Dude, my mother liked Bon Jovi. That's like the only person I've ever met in my life that was like a Bon Jovi fan was my mother. That's one person more than I know. I don't know anybody that likes Bon Jovi. But I think that the game looks cool enough that it may not matter. I think that we may be in a place where the gameplay and the rules and everything just make up for it because Bon Jovi is not great. But I will admit that whenever I was going through it, because I didn't even know what songs I knew by then. You know, I was like, it's my life. I know that one. Right. Shot Through the Heart. I know that. Yep. So I went through and I was like listening to my YouTube music. And there were a lot of songs that I was like, oh, yeah, I've heard this. You know, I think that I think that a lot of the songs are going to be familiar, you know, familiar enough that like you can play along with it or whatever, even if it's not your thing. Yeah, I've definitely heard most of his top songs. I was just never a fan. Yeah, I mean, but I think that, man, David Van Ness, like looking at this layout and watching the gameplay, I have not like listened to all the podcasts. I watched the gameplay thing that Carl did, and I watched the little feature that Jeff Dodson did. That's pretty much all I've seen. But watching it, I was just like, man, like David Van Ness, he needs to be talked about with his layouts. Like he started off with Labyrinth, which showed some creativity. It wasn't great. It was, you know, could be a little clunky, brutal. But Dune is like a masterpiece, in my opinion. I love that game. It's amazing.
Sonicgame
Falloutgame
Foo Fightersgame
Godzillagame
Lord of the Ringsgame
Dunegame
Harry Pottergame
Godfathergame
Toy Storygame
Pinburghevent
Kevin Martinperson
Barrels of Funcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Drew Sedoliaperson

high · Sterling: 'David David Van Es, he needs to be talked about with his layouts...Labyrinth showed some creativity...Dune is like a masterpiece...and then this looks really good'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Elwin maintains design superiority by harmonizing layout mechanics with rule implementation holistically; other designers creating comparable layouts but lacking full integration

    high · Sterling: 'Elwin is making the layout with the rules in mind and it all just works in harmony. It's just all perfectly put together. And I don't think the other guys are there yet...their layouts are right there'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jack Danger transitioned away from full-time Stern Pinball design work; exploring fan project to document game development process including licensing and manufacturing complexity

    medium · Sterling: 'I know he's supposed to be doing something in the background...he wants to show everyone the full process, including licensing, dealing with licensors'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stern hired new designer with homebrew experience who may assume aspects of Jack Danger's role; expected to push innovative/experimental mechanics

    medium · Sterling: 'you know that new guy that they hired is going to push for some wild stuff...he's got the weirdness in his layouts...he's going to kind of take over the danger role'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinburgh 2024 recognized as best-run tournament by experienced organizer; 270 players, improved venue (movie theater with climate control), thoughtful logistics between rounds, custom software, minimal downtime despite infrastructure challenges

    high · David: 'This is probably the best run tournament that I have ever been to...the way that they organize it, it's just very thoughtful...It's great'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Pinburgh handled two facility power outages with fair rulings based on machine state; volunteers coordinated individual assessments; modern machines retained scores in some cases, EMs continued from mechanical state

    high · David details power outage protocol: 'they all get together...they would just continue...if you were on a modern, in a lot of cases, the score carried over'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Phone usage rule enforced at Pinburgh (no phone between balls on EMs due to rules documentation access concerns); penalty issued to Drew Sedolia; lesser restriction on multiplayer games (can use phone if not standing at machine)

    high · David explains: 'you cannot get on your phone in between balls because there's a chance that you could be looking at rules'...Drew Sedolia 'got a yellow'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Bon Jovi pinball experienced rapid community sentiment reversal: strong initial negativity (zero demand for theme, 'bummed out') → gameplay video revelation → overnight acceptance and pre-orders; Discord sentiment shifted from negative to positive/interested within 24 hours

    high · David: 'I was not happy...I slept on it. Felt different...I really, really want to play this'...Sterling: 'yesterday It was like very negative where today there's like one guy that's like, I ordered it'

    • 4:27
    And then this looks really good. Like the gameplay looks amazing to me. The freaking the left out lane ball save, too, I think is the coolest ball save I've since seen since like the dead post and full Foo Fighters. That one was really cool, too. But a freaking ramp with a little mini flipper. Yeah, it's it's cool. It is cool. And I'm wondering, I don't know if I don't know if you have thought about this, but if you look at it, It kind of looks like if you did right off the very end of the flipper on that, that you could maybe get it under the real left flipper over to the right. Oh, no way. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Look at it. Like if you flipped it kind of like a Shatz, like the same way that you would Shatz on a real game. Right. It looks like it could maybe make it. But I don't know because it's a little flipper. Like maybe if it was a lightning flipper over there, you could definitely get it. But it looks like it could possibly make it with the little flipper. Yeah, I mean, I only watched Carl's stream like that's really the only content I have on this game. But first off, I just noticed the game flows and it shoots really well. Unless Carl is just frickin' nailing the shots and everyone else is going to suck. Well, you know he is. I know. But for the most part, I'm like, wow, this game looks like it shoots well. The ramps look smooth as well. Smooth, yes. And I like how the left ramp changes where it ends up. It alternates. At least in the mode that he was playing in that video, whenever he shot the left ramp, it would switch between feeding the left flipper. Yeah, I saw him shoot it twice in a row, and I'm like, no, is it just going to go right back to the same spot? And I'm like, oh, cool. It diverted it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Man, there's a lot of cool stuff in there, dude. Van Ness finds little ways to sneak stuff in. You'll have to go over to, shit, Radioactive Arcade and play it because it sounds like he's going to have one right off the bat. Oh, I'll definitely play it. I'm like yesterday, whenever it first came out, I was like, I'm never going to play this stupid ass game. That's how I felt. And then I was like, actually, about an hour and a half ago, I watched the stream and I was like, OK, all right. I'm kind of warming up to it. So last night, last night, I was in bed by myself because our little dog is is injured right now. So Kristen was out in the living room sleeping with her. So I watched the gameplay video right before I went to bed, and I was kind of thinking about it, and I woke up today and just felt completely different. I felt completely different about it. Yeah, straight up. Slept on it. Felt different. I looked at it again at the playfield, and I was like, dude, I really, really want to play this. I want to play this so bad. Well, it's kind of funny you say that, too, because I'm in some Discord chats, and I feel like yesterday, It was like very negative where today there's like one guy that's like, I ordered it. I'm excited. And, you know, everyone else is kind of like, oh, you know, I might play it. It kind of does look a little interesting. So I think people just like to shit on stuff right out of the gate regardless. Yeah, I did not like the theme. I wish this same layout was on a different game. Like, I feel like it could work for a lot of different themes. Almost any other thing would be better. Like, I mean, I'm not joking.
    7:54
    You could say pretty much anything, and I would think that would be better than Mon Jovi. I heard Spongebob was, like, one of the rumors I heard, and I was like, not a huge Spongebob fan, but if I had to pick one or the other, I'd be like, yeah, we're going Spongebob. Definitely Spongebob. And I've never watched, I haven't watched a second of that. I can just get behind a cartoon. I was already trying to hook up with girls and get drunk and whatever whenever that came out. Tell me you didn't have a SpongeBob shirt. No, I did not, man. I'm 41 years old. SpongeBob was after my time. It wasn't far after my time, but it was after my time, just like Pokemon. Yeah, I've seen some 50-year-old dudes with Pokemon shirts on. I know. We all know those people. It's okay. Man, this layout looks way better than Pokemon layout. Yeah, I agree. This is probably the best. This and Sonic are the two that stand out to me this year so far. I haven't played Sonic, I haven't played Transformers, and I haven't played this, so I can't really speak on actually firsthand playing it. Yeah, you just don't play pinball anymore. No, no, I just set up tournaments and I buy pinball machines to put out there for other people to play. Well, I think that the coolest thing about this is the main mech, the heart shot through the heart magnet. The rush shot. What they did with it, it's like they combined Godzilla with like Lord of the Rings slash Rush slash the worm from Beetlejuice. Right. It's like a little bit of each of those things, and it seems like they can do a lot of cool stuff with it. Yeah, I'm excited to play it. Are you going to Southern Front this weekend? No, I couldn't get off work. Dude, that was me. I have to work every Saturday, and I get one Saturday off a month, and normally that is reserved for Barnburner. I didn't even go to Barnburner this month, even though it's my baby. I got Chad Patz to run it because I had to go to Pinnberg and get my ass kicked. Well, that's fun too.
    10:08
    But while I was at Pinnberg, I got to play Sonic though. Ooh, you want to tell us about Sonic? Sonic is pretty sweet, man. I still stand by that I'm not a fan layout guy, but it shoots really smooth. The upper playfield is better than I thought it would be. It is not a situation where you're up there all the time.
    10:33
    And when you do get up there, you know, the shots are pretty interesting. And, like, the gap is so wide, but the way that they put that pin there, it gives you some, like, skillful, some chances to be skillful to keep it up there. And, you know, it's pretty fun, like, you know, beating Robotnik. And I had a good time with it. I played it a handful of times.
    10:59
    There was people on it all weekend, obviously, you know, and I'm not big on waiting in line. But I got on there a few times.
    11:08
    The loop, the loop-de-loop was not feeding great on this one. It was not super smooth. It was kind of clunky coming out of there. Like, going in, it was super smooth. It was just like what you saw in the videos. Right. The release was not great on this one. So that's something that maybe you're going to have to dial in. Right. But I had a good time on it, man. I mean, the animations were really good. I don't like that the clips that they use are literally like three or four second clips. And then they do this little transition that's kind of like a dash transition, like a motion blur. And then it resets. So like if you're bricking shots and stuff, it doesn't really matter for you because you're playing. But people watching, it plays the same three or four seconds over and over and over. And it gets kind of repetitive. I wonder if that's just early code, possibly. Maybe. Because I've seen that, especially in Stern games. They're like always notorious for like having the same video clips at early code. Yeah, I hope I hope that they they make it to where the clips are at least a little bit longer.
    12:19
    Like, it kind of seems like they just made the shortest clip that they could do in repeat and it not seem like completely disjointed, you know?
    12:31
    It's like there's one where he's just running straight and it just like runs and then he dashes and it resets. But like the background is kind of similar. So it kind of feels like he's continuously running, you know? Right. But the shots are good, man. So shots wise, I know you've only played it a couple times, but I've heard so many people just like want to know like Sonic or Harry Potter, like which one do you think, you know, shoots better? Harry Potter shoots better? I think that just like Van Ness doesn't get enough love. I mean, I honestly think Minier doesn't get enough love either. I mean, Harry Potter is a sick layout. It is, it's good. It is a good game. I'm not big on Harry Potter. I don't care about that theme. Right. Yeah, same. But it is super fast and the ball paths are crazy. The ball paths on Godfather are crazy. You know, if that was a different theme, I think that that could have been something really cool. You know, and the code, I think the code on the Jersey Jack games set them back. Yeah. Because there's just too much going on. Nobody understands what's happening.
    13:36
    There's, you know, rainbow vomit on the lights. You know, it's just every color of the rainbow everywhere. Yeah, that especially does not go well with Godfather, just like rainbow. Yeah, it was so weird. Like Toy Story, that works, you know? Yeah, for sure. But I think, man, I love that layout. I love the Harry Potter layout. Yeah, he's a young designer, so I mean, we're going to see all kinds of games from him. Oh, he's going to do a bunch of cool stuff. Jersey Jack is going to get some more good themes, and he's going to do some good stuff. I think he's the same age as me. I don't think anybody talks about him like that. I don't think that anyone ever brings his name up as a good designer, which I think is kind of weird. You just hear Elwin and maybe Richie. I know.
    14:25
    Well, it's like Elwin, I feel like he set the bar so high with the dynamic layout, And all of these other people like Jack Danger and Minyer and now Van Ness and Carl are all doing really cool layouts, you know, but they're just they don't have the full package because Elwin is making the layout with the rules in mind and it all just works in harmony. It's just all perfectly put together. And I don't think the other guys are there yet. Yeah. But I think their layouts are right there. Right. I would say. Yeah, I can agree with that for sure. Man. Elwin's still my favorite. Just like you said, it's just the whole damn package. Like, I'm really excited for Fallout. You know, right now we're saying, you know, Bon Jovi's a really good layout. Sonic's a good layout. But we haven't seen Fallout. And I think that's going to be a pretty badass one we're going to get this year. So did you hear, Kale was on one of his podcasts and he said that there's a lower playfield on that. Did you hear that? I think I did hear that. Yeah, maybe on the JBS show. I feel like Elwin just has like a checklist of things that he hasn't done yet and he's just going to be like, oh, lower playfield. Well, I haven't done that. Let's show him how to do this. I can't wait for his bonsai run.
    15:46
    He's in the back glass? You think they'll let him do that? Hell no. Man, he could do it, though. Yeah, maybe if it's like 40K, then Stern's like, I guess we could put a ball back there for 40. Well, you know that new guy that they hired is going to push for some wild stuff like that, you know? Yeah, I didn't know him by name, but then I've seen his homebrew before and played that, so yeah, he does some crazy shit. Yeah, I think that he's going to kind of take over the danger role at Stern, you know? He's got the weirdness in his layouts. Man, I really wish Jack Danger would continue to design games. I know he's supposed to be doing something in the background, some fan project or something, but I want more Jack Danger games. I mean, Foo Fighters is a freaking phenomenal game. It is.
    16:40
    Did you see the other day he posted, he basically said, like, we've got to switch gears. What's a good theme that is niche but not too niche? I saw you wrote something in there. Oh, yeah. I said Earthworm Jim. I think Earthworm Jim would be sick. Yeah.
    17:03
    Pinky in the Brain, right? Pinky in the Brain, yep. I could get behind that one. Dude, I mean, how many people in the 90s got home after school to turn on Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, Tiny Toon Adventures? They all came on like right at the same time. Hell yeah. Dude, you could do a dual theme with a couple of those. Oh yeah, for sure. I think, dude, if he does that layout that he was playing around with that he showed that had it kind of had a snick shot and it had like kind of an upper area, kind of like Medusa. And then it had like a lower area. That layout looked amazing. Like if if it's that layout for this this like fan thing that he's doing. Oh, that would be nuts. Oh, my God. Kind of like Elwin, how they let him do his homebrew for like Iron Maiden. Yeah. I don't know if they're going to let him do that, though.
    17:58
    That's too many node boards, too much shit. Well, he said that he wants to show everyone the full process, including licensing, dealing with licensors, dealing with the bomb.
    18:14
    And his post the other day made me think that he really is doing that and that, like, everybody thinks that he's just, you know, Not doing anything right now, but maybe he's doing a lot. That would be awesome. You know, like maybe he's got all kinds of shit going on. Yeah, I hope. I mean, he's a talented individual. Everybody wants to see him either go back to streaming and doing that like, you know, full time or design some pinball machines.
    18:42
    Yeah, I well, I think that if this thing works out how he described it and how I'm hoping that happened, it seems like maybe he could do both. Yeah. I miss this. God, if they do this and he does like this whole documentary or whatever he's doing to to show how the process works. Yeah. And then they allow people to buy the game. Right. Like they they release it like a kind of like Bond 60th. Yeah. Oh, my God, dude. Speaking of documentaries, did you see that Stern thing that the JBS show aired? Oh my God. That was so fucking ridiculous. Dude, if that was a real show, I would totally watch that shit. Dude, me and Kristen were in our hotel room in Pittsburgh and it was the morning. We were getting ready or whatever before we were going out to the venue. Right. And I started watching it, dude. I was just dying laughing. She was like, what are you laughing about? And I was like, look at this shit. And I like showed it. She was like, what the fuck? Is that real?
    19:49
    Dude, it's hard to believe it's real. I'm sure they thought it was gone forever because it's not posted like on YouTube or anything. I don't know where the hell they found that video. Oh, my God. That was crazy. That guy that was talking about. Everybody knows that guy. The Komodo guy. Yes. Saying like, I just showed my dick.
    20:14
    What? That was an insane podcast. Oh yeah, that whole thing. That was probably, fucking Rob Burke was in a bathtub.
    20:25
    I don think anyone gave Rob the memo that it was a video podcast apparently He comes in it like his fucking forehead like oh sorry I been here I been up to 4am It's like you didn't have to call him back, bro. He sounded like he was hammered, dude. Sounded like he was hammered. I texted Kale. I was like, that bathtub is filled with regret now. Dude, you know that Rob woke up and was like, oh my god, that was on video? Yeah. Fuck! Fucking Jamie and Retro Ralph are like texting each other like, I'm really uncomfortable right now, what's going on? Oh yeah, I bet. I bet.
    21:15
    Dude, especially Ralph. I feel like Ralph was probably just like, oh god. Oh, he was freaking out. Oh, God. He's like, get this dude off of here.
    21:26
    I mean, Kale was down for it. Kale don't give a shit. I love that guy. Oh, but yeah, that was their best episode ever. That shit was fucking crazy.
    21:38
    That was such a good episode. I like the lives. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because the whole audience can kind of engage with it. I like that, too. You can kind of ask them questions or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't watching it live. I watched the replay, but it adds an element. Yeah, there's no editing. No, obviously.
    22:02
    Wow. Well, tell us about Pemberg. How was it, man? Well, so if you remember last episode, I said that I got into A last year. I finished 73rd and my goal was top 50. Well, that didn't happen.
    22:23
    Sorry. I got my ass whooped. I did have some, you know, I had some really good moments. There are some things for me to be proud of and some decision-making that I'm happy with.
    22:38
    There's always stuff that you can pull from it, right? There's no way to recreate that level of competition anywhere at home.
    22:47
    That's a once-a-year chance to go against all of those good players. I want to say that there was 270 players this year. Damn. And there's no scrubs. Like even the worst players there are not like terrible. Like you don't spend $300 and go to Pittsburgh. Yeah, you don't see me flying out there. To play for four days if you just like can't even flip, you know? Yeah. So there's nobody in any group that just sucks ass, you know? Right. And there are tons of people that are incredible. There's like so many good players. Yeah, the best of the best go to this. Yeah, I mean, the number one player in the world, three-peated, spoiler alert, but he was taken to a tiebreaker on Fishtails. So that was really cool because we got back to our hotel and had it on. So we got to see the finals, like the end of the finals. And it was really compelling to see him get taken to a tiebreaker for the win. I wish that Shepard would have won just because it was his first Final Four appearance in a major. And I had seen him earlier in the weekend. We were playing the same bank as his group, and they were on Space Shuttle, and he put up $7.5 million on Ball 1. God damn. On Space Shuttle. And that game was in the final group. It was in the final bank. And I was like, damn, Shepard's about to murk this thing. But he didn't, you know. Right. But he still took him to the last game. So that was really cool. I would say that this is probably the best run tournament that I have ever been to. The format is incredible. For those of you that don't know, you play group match play. And each group that you're in, you play four games with them. You get an EM, a early solid state, and then either a late solid state or a DMD, and then a modern. That's awesome. I like that. Yeah. And, you know, the way that they do the timing, it's awesome because you're not like, everybody knows that they're just locked in for the week, you know, like we're just here. We're playing pinball all day. So they do like two hour blocks for each group for each round. Right. So a lot of times you finish a round and you've got like 45 minutes to kill or whatever. And that gives time for techs to fix things. Like if anything breaks, techs have plenty of time to fix things. They don't have to take games out constantly. Like things are getting fixed. They have everything's very organized. And then they've got a side tournament going on called Bash at the Berg, which is a pump and dump where they've got like maybe 20 games and you just buy entries. Each entry is $2.50. You buy in $20 blocks and you can just play as much or as little as you want. So in between rounds, you can either hang out and read a book, go get food. It's at like a big movie theater. Yeah, I've seen that. That's really cool. Like instead of being in a place where all of these people are and it gets hot and, you know, I mean, you know, because you had to like change your your your schedule because it's getting too hot in the studio. Yep. Well, this place, it is like cold. Like we had to go back out to the car to get hoodies. It's that cold. I like cold. Yeah, it's a movie theater, bro. That that that AC fucking works. Oh, it was awesome. But yeah, in between rounds, you can do whatever you want. You can play on your phone. You can go play in Bash at the Berg. You can read. You can go sit out in your car. You can go get food. You can do anything. And then they've got breaks scheduled in for food.
    26:55
    It's an intense competition. It's the most intense competition I've ever played. But at the same time, the way that they organize it, it's just very thoughtful. It's great. How many years have you been going?
    27:10
    This was only my second year. Oh, okay. This was only my second year. I never went whenever they had it at the convention center, whenever it was like a thousand people. I have no idea what that was like. I'm sure it was a bit more crazy. Right. Because with this place where they're doing it now with the amount of people that they have, there's plenty of room to sit in between rounds. Like, you know, you can relax.
    27:33
    I think that at the old place, it was a little bit more hectic and like you were just standing all the time. I'm sure that it was a little bit more brutal. Right. But what they're doing now is great. And I don't know. Hats off to the organizers of that. Do you know who organizes it or no?
    27:53
    I do not know. I don't know. Well, I know that Kevin Martin is kind of like the overlord of it. I'm pretty sure that he designed the software. They use custom software, so they're not using Matchplay. Oh, nice. For the main, it's Kevin's own software, which is kind of like hard to navigate. It's not like the most user-friendly thing in the world. I kind of wish that they would use Matchplay, but I don't think that Matchplay is equipped to break up the groups how he wants it broken up because it's like more in-depth than tiered Swiss. Can everybody have it pulled up on their phone? Yeah, you can pull it up on your phone, but it's kind of hard to navigate. But what they do is after the last group is done, which sometimes is like down to the wire, like sometimes the last group takes two hours or goes over time. But once the last group is done, they make the new groupings based on how the finishes happen. And then they print out everybody. They print out these sheets of paper that are in alphabetical order and you just walk up and it shows you what set you're in. So the set is the four game banks. So it will tell you what set you're in and then you just you just go to the set, you know. So like it's very easy to find what you need. It's just not as easy as having it on match play. Yeah. Yeah. So and there was a lot of weird stuff that happened this weekend that they handled very well. So the power went out twice, like during the tournament power to the entire movie theater went out. That sucks. No backup power for the pinball machines? Oh, it was interesting because we were downstairs playing Bash at the Berg both times whenever it happened.
    29:47
    And, you know, obviously this has not happened before. So they have a huge team of volunteers that are working. Like the amount of support that they have there is incredible. So they all get together. They just tell everybody, stand at the machine that you're on. We are going to figure this out and we'll come let you know.
    30:10
    So they got together. They talked it out for a few minutes. And basically the ruling was if you were on an EM, the reel had just stopped. So it's not like it reset or whatever. Okay. Yeah, true. So you would just continue. And if you were on a modern, in a lot of cases, the score carried over like the screen carried over. Some of them reset and they lost the score. So everybody was kind of individual different. So they went around as a group and talked to everybody and was like, OK, what ball were you on? Here's what's going to happen for you. And the second time the power went out, I was actually playing. I was in ball one on Star Wars, and I had literally just started. I had like 5 million points. Yeah. And so they just came out and they were like, here, we're going to write down your 5 million whatever points it is, and at the end we'll add it. But then, of course, I had a terrible game, so I voided it anyway. I was voiding every game. It was brutal. Dude, I had some faulty power strips recently at a tournament. They're like the Bluetooth ones you can turn on, and I'm like, oh, it's wonderful. I can turn on all my pinball machines. Well, they started screwing up, and it started screwing up in the middle of a tournament, and like half the row would die in the middle of a round. I'm like, oh, shit. What did you do? It was a fucking nightmare. I did similar things to what you just spoke about. But, you know, we got that all figured out, got through that round, and I swear it was like the next round and it did it again. And I'm like, what is going on? Oh, my God. And finally. Did you figure out what the problem was? Yeah, I started ripping all the power strips out and just like going directly into the wall. And then guess what? Everything worked fine. And I threw that shit in the trash.
    32:07
    Oh, man. Tell us some more about Pember. You were saying something about some rulings and stuff. Oh, man. So there was a there's a rule that I wasn't fully aware of. I think that I've seen this before, but I've never actually seen it come into play.
    32:28
    So in case you didn't know, if you are in a one player game, so like an old EM, you cannot get on your phone in between balls. You can't look at your phone in between balls because there's a chance that you could be looking at rules and you're only allowed to look at the rules on the rule card.
    32:52
    So the full rule for that is if you are in a one player game, you can't look at your phone. If you're in a multiplayer game, you cannot look at your phone while you're standing at the machine. But just the EMs? Why just the EM? No, no. It's just because they don't make single-player moderns. Oh, okay. I got you. But if you're in a four-player game or whatever, if you walk up and you start looking at your phone, like I do this all the time because I have headphones. I'm listening to music. I change my song. But I normally just change it by swiping on the edge of my ear.
    33:41
    But sometimes, let's say two people in the group go super long, have super long balls. After a certain amount of time, your headphones forget what you were doing. So you go to try to double tap to turn on a song, and it has already resets. So then you got to go in and you got to pick your playlist and figure out your song. I mean, I get on my phone all the time, so I get it. Well, yeah. So at local tournaments, it's not a problem. Like this has literally never come up before. But my boy Drew Sedolia from North Carolina killed it this weekend, played awesome. He was in a group and like somebody in his group louded him out for it and went and got a TD. And I want to say that he like got a yellow. I wasn't aware this was a rule. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. Is it like a real rule? Okay. Yes. Yeah, because we're in – so I'm in a group chat with like all of the – like let's say the good players that travel in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.
    34:47
    And like Tommy Vernieri, he like sent us a screenshot of the rule. I was like, yeah, this is a real rule. This is, you know, whatever. This is how it works. So, yeah, keep that in mind. If you're at a big tournament, don't be on your phone while you're going up to play. Take care of that shit before it's your turn. Yeah, I guess you learn something new every day. So is this supposed to be enforced at all tournaments? Yeah. Oh, shit. Yep, you better be going around. Dude, like people go outside and shit. Yeah, I know. So if you're outside. What are they doing in the bathroom? Like, how are you supposed to enforce this shit? So you're allowed to look at rules and speak to people about rules in between your turns. Yeah. But whenever it is to your turn, whenever it's your turn to go play. Yeah. No more rules.
    35:39
    After you have started that round, I guess, technically, like you have started playing the game. No, like even like once you played ball one prior to ball one, it's OK. Like once it is even on ball one, if you step up to your first ball, you are not supposed to look at rules other than on the rule card. So you are not supposed to be on your phone. But say you're player three and player one has only started. Can you look at your phone? Yes. That makes no effing sense. That makes no sense. Oh, my God, man. Yeah, Drew was like, what the hell? Like, what the fuck? I was just looking at my music or whatever. So if you're player four, you got plenty of time to look up the rules, but if you're player one, you're screwed. That's what I'm taking from it. Yeah, kind of. So stupid, man. Oh my God. It's whatever.
    36:32
    But hey, it was announced that Tommy V is on the IFPA staff now. So shout out to Tommy. Very cool. I feel like that should have happened a long time ago. I feel like he has been the same guy that he is right now. He was two years ago, and he could have helped them. He could have helped them a lot. He's more than qualified. Oh, yeah. In his little write-up that they did, the very last sentence is, he loves spreadsheets or something. What? Yeah. And I texted him, and I was like, me too, Tommy. Me too. Oh, man. Yeah, cool stuff. Him and Kaylee Campbell are both on staff with them now. She was at Pemberg as well, did really good. She's in the group chat. Yeah, me and Kristen pretty much did the worst out of the Dirty South crew. Yeah, I didn't hear much from you, so I'm like, I don't know if I should check in on him or what. Yeah, I was not really talking to him. I was like, you might not be happy, so I'm just going to leave it alone. It's really interesting because when you're at a big tournament like that, you know so many people, but we're all kind of on our own journey. Like, even me and Kristen, we're, you know, husband and wife, but she is playing completely different games with completely different people. We just see each other every once in a while. Whenever you see your friends, you're walking by, a lot of times you just kind of give them a head nod. You don't have time to stop and talk about, oh, what happened to you? I don't know. It's interesting to me because I'm friends with all these people and we were there and we hung out a bit and whatever. But they all had their own weekend. The weekend was completely different for every single one of us. Even the ones that made it to a certain place that made it far, just completely different.
    38:41
    But I know that me and Drew, we both got redirected by the flood. Did you hear about the flood? No. Oh, yeah. So Clarksburg, West Virginia had like a 20-year flood or whatever. Oh, shit. The day before.
    38:57
    So whenever we were on the way up, the interstate was like flooded and we had to like redirect. Oh, they had like pumps out there. They were pumping water off of the interstate because this little creek overflowed. Damn. Yeah, that was the start. That was the start of the journey. They were telling you to turn around. I know.
    39:17
    I'm kidding. Dude, going to those things, man, there were a lot of moments that I seriously was like, I should just not play competitive pinball anymore. What? This should just not be my thing. You're a damn good player. Well, but you feel terrible. The way that they set these games up, dude, they put a rubber post on the left ramp for Ghostbusters. The rubber was at least, I would say, an inch and a half in diameter. Holy shit. It was huge. You cannot backhand the left ramp. Now, to be fair, I was in a group with Colin McAlpine on that, and he blew it the fuck up. Like, the good players are still going to play really well. That's what I mean. It only fucks up the not-as-good players. Yeah, I mean, I'm not a shitty player, but it fucks me up bad. Right, it doesn't even phase, like, the very top people. I know. It's weird. I think that it's, like, an experience thing. Like, it's just, they just know. They just know to go up and check. Like, I still played my normal Ghostbusters game, which I start with start scene on the left ramp. Like, that's my first move. Now, if I would have been paying attention and walked up and looked at the playfield beforehand and saw this gigantic post rubber blocking the left ramp, I probably would have gone a different direction. But I just didn't even, it didn't even register in my mind that that would even be a possibility, you know? But I bet Colin looks for shit like that. I'm pretty sure he won Pinball before. He been doing this for a long time Right Dude Black Hole Did I send you a picture of what they did to Black Hole No Oh my God man What the hell did they do to that game I'm about to send you a picture.
    41:09
    So, last year, Zoller famously invented the strat where you just shoot the left saucer over and over and just dead flip it or live catch it. So on the back glass, they had a note saying like, thanks, Jason. And it was like listing all these posts and wires and shit that they removed.
    41:34
    So normally on Black Hole, there's not a gap right after the gate. So, yeah, that is. Yeah, most people don't see what we're looking at, but it's just two star post with a gap in between instead of instead of a wire. Yep. Or whatever's normally there. It's probably just usually a rubber around both of those star posts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that probably is what it is. Yep. And then below that, there's normally a wire so that you can't scissor flipper. Dude, it's already got scissor flippers. Like, that's already dangerous. I know. So you can go, like, I almost, I successfully got out of the lower playfield. So for those of you that don't know, if you end up in the lower playfield, you have to clear a bank of drop targets so that whenever you exit, whenever you drain in the lower playfield, you get to keep your ball. If you don't clear a bank of drop targets, then you just drain whenever it comes out. And there's a little gate that opens up and allows you back into the playfield. Dude, I almost drained after successfully escaping the lower playfield because the ball got a little hung up and whenever it jumped that little gap, it almost came back in. It almost fell back in. I was so pissed. I was like, dude, why would they do this? Brutal.
    42:55
    Yeah, but they're doing crazy shit like that. Lethal Weapon 3, they have a zip tie on the left ramp. What? So that the ball falls out of control, you cannot hit the left ramp over and over. Every time you hit the left ramp, it falls basically from the apex of the ramp. At the top of the ramp, the ball just falls off and goes into the pops or goes wherever.
    43:17
    Why not just not have it in the tournament? Well, I don't know. I mean, I guess it's Lethal Weapon. No one was like, yeah. I do like that layout, actually. I always thought Lethal Weapon would be a good reskin for a homebrew. Yeah, I think that even redoing it as Lethal Weapon 1 and doing good artwork instead of that terrible shit that they have on it. Yeah, and get Dirty Pull to do the audio. Oh, that guy's so good, man. He is. I got to play Winchester.
    43:49
    Really? Yeah, I got to play it in the quiet room at TPF, so I got to hear it. I keep telling everybody, I'm like, that's really like most of it for me is like the experience that the sound package puts you in. And the lighting show and the shots, but like that sound really grabs you. Yeah, so it was kind of off to the side. It was in the actual tournament, but they put it way off to like the very edge of the like playing area. So you got to hear it a little bit. It was still loud. I couldn't hear it. Definitely not as good as you could, but I could hear it well enough to know that it sounds awesome. Yeah. They had like a side tournament on it the first day, and it was like a time thing. Jeff Teolis was running it. You got either two or three minutes or until you drained your third ball to get as many points as possible. And a little guy from North Carolina, Miles Bradley won. He got almost 30 million.
    44:47
    And he told me that he was just like getting the skill shot and getting locks. And that that is pretty much what did it. I think he like just got into a multiball real quick because of the skill shot. Um, I got smoked. I ended up, I probably had the worst score out of anyone that played on it. So my first impression of the game was like, man, this game fucking sucks, right? But then I got to play it again and I had a ball three comeback during the tournament and I actually got to play it. Like I got to play some modes and shit. Um, it was fun, man. The layout suite. It's, it is impressive. You never know where the ball is going to come from because you just unless you played it a lot, there's no way to know because things are moving. Right. All kinds of shit is happening. Yeah, I'm excited to see what barrels is going to do in the future. Just please stay away from things like Bon Jovi, please. I know. Oh, my gosh, man. Like, dude, I would love to re-theme Winchester and re-theme Bon Jovi. Let's just take a break. Let's just re-theme both of these games so that more people can buy them. Dude, yeah, Bon Jovi was like, and there's so many themes like everyone's asking for. It's like Fifth Element. It sounds like if they did Fifth Element, like people would lose their shit. Yeah, dude, I honestly, I don't even care that much about Fifth Element. I think that it's a cool theme. I like the movie, but I'm not crazy about it. But it wasn't like it's a movie that I've watched. I don't know. I probably have watched it five times. Okay. Yeah.
    46:32
    Not like super big on it, but I would be if Bon Jovi was better than Bon Jovi, I would maybe be thinking about buying it. Right. Oh, if it was Fifth Element with the same layout, I would. Yeah, I'd probably buy it. Yeah. I mean, the layout is sick.
    46:48
    So, David, if you're listening, nothing against your game. It looks fantastic. I think that you're one of the best designers in pinball, straight up. Just please, Lord. You were going the right direction. We started with Labyrinth, okay? Yep. Then we went Dune. Hell yeah. They are cooking. Right. And then they went Mystery House, like out of left field. Can they get away with it? Yes. It's amazing.
    47:14
    And then we go to Bon Jovi. I know. What the hell happened? It's like Toy Story 4. Dude. Actually, I'd rather have Toy Story 4 as a theme any day. There's so many different bands. I really think it's just dangerous to do a band. I think people can go either way with it. I think movies are easier to get away with.
    47:38
    Yeah. Or just don't have a theme. Like Winchester Mystery House was a perfect theme, actually, because it's like it's a license, but it's not, you know, a movie license. That's going to cost like millions of dollars or something crazy. You know, it's definitely affordable. King Kong, you know, that's, you know, they did their own version of King Kong or whatever, but it's still King Kong. You think they could go find another famous haunted house and just make another haunted house game and it'd be successful?
    48:11
    But you put Carl on the same layout or no, no, new layout, Carl on design, new haunted house game. I think haunted stuff will always work in pinball. I do, too. It might not be the number one thing in movies, but I feel like a lot of people like that creepier horror theme. Don't go too crazy with the horror. I don't know if Terrifier would work. Yeah, like Rob Zombie, whenever they did Rob Zombie. People like Spooky-ish, though. Yeah, that was crazy shit. Right. Like all those clowns. Like I don't I don't know enough about the Rob Zombie like universe, but I know that like it was real like horror. Yeah. You know, I think any of the classics would work to like Friday the 13th or something. Oh, they have to do that. Yeah. I feel like they have to do that. I think that I think that Stern pretty much like has to do Scream. So like that is like tailor made for Stern. Scream would. I think Scream would actually do really well. There's a reason why they're still making the movies. Like, they made the first three movies, and then they didn't make a movie for years, and now they're making one, like, every year. So it's making money, clearly. Yeah, and the first one is, like, iconic. Oh, yeah, the first, that's what I would want. Like, I would hope they would just do the first movie. Yeah, I mean, and the call-outs, you know? Like, with the voice on the phone? Oh, yeah. Oh, dude, it would be amazing. They have to do that. That's like the most stern, like scary. See, I would think spooky would do it before stern. I think stern needs to visit more of these like spooky themes. Like they play it really safe with more of like monsters. It's like, well, yeah, that's kind of horror. It's more of like friendly, family friendly, like Elvira. They did Elvira. They did do Elvira. And that's not family friendly. No, but it's but it's in Stranger Things is creepy. It's real campy, you know? Yeah. But I mean, the rumor is that they're doing a non-licensed Dracula. Oh, yeah, that is true. I think that that is going to be cool. And I do think that they're doing that. I have heard some things that point me to that direction. Why would they not just get the Universal Monsters Dracula license? I feel like if it was tied to Universal Monsters like Creature from the Black Lagoon and all that, it would be more nostalgic to people versus just Dracula, not tied to anything. Even though most people don't watch those old black and white films, they do like Universal Monsters in general. I think that the success of Godzilla and now King Kong, I think that they are starting to plan for that in their budget. Like we need an unlicensed, you know, maybe like once every two years, we need the unlicensed hit, you know, because we're not spending that money on the license. Right. Or they license it in a cheaper way. Maybe they license a book if there's a book and a movie of the franchise. Yeah. But I think that they got a taste of it, of getting that Godzilla money without having to pay out a – Now, Godzilla's not licensed? I'm pretty sure it is, right? Because it's got all the movie clips and stuff. Actually, yeah, you're right. It's Kong. Kong's the one where – It's just Kong. It's just Kong. Yeah, because they had to get the license from Toyo. But for some reason, I thought that they did like their own Godzilla, but no, that's not accurate. What you're probably hearing is they did not have to pay the licensing for the sculpture of Godzilla because they made them look so god-awful different that they didn't have to license that toy. Yeah, that is what I was thinking of because they went a different direction with the art, so they didn't have to pay up for all of that. They ended up just having to pay up for the clips. But yeah, I think, man, I think the Dracula is going to be cool, man. No, Dracula speaks to me. Like I said, I like the kind of spooky, creepy themes. And I also like Stern has a pro that starts at $7,000. That's the problem with so many of these manufacturers. It's not that I dislike, you know, their games or anything. It's just like, dude, when you're like lowest tier game starts at 10K, like, holy shit. I know. It's a lot of money. The amount of money that collectors spend on pinball makes normal people cringe.
    52:44
    You've spent how much on the game that's at your house? People can't even believe it. My perception of how much $7,000 is is very different to my friends that are outside of pinball. Oh, hell yeah. I'm like, oh, it's only $7,000. Okay. And my other friends are like, dude, what? Why did you spend $7,000 on a pinball machine? Well, they'll be looking like at my Stearns and they're like, you know, like, oh, I'd love to have one of these in the house. How much are they? I'm like, well, they start at seven. They're like, they start at seven. I'm like, yeah. I was like, if you want the top one, that's 13 for the top one. They're like 13. And they're like looking at these two machines beside each other. And they're like, they look the same. And it's like, well, you know, it's got powder coat. It's got some mirror. Oh, yeah. You start explaining it. It's got signatures. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, what? You bet an extra five grand for different armor. What? And then you're like class. Yeah. And you're like, oh, you know, that ramp moves a ramp moves and you paid thousands of dollars. You know, yeah, they all think that we're crazy and we probably we probably are. But my whole thing is you're only spending what the difference is between what you pay for it and what you sell it for. You know, because someone's going to buy it. It's not like you're going to get stuck with these things. Right. If you want to sell it, you can sell it. You might take a loss, but you can sell it, and then you're only losing $1,000. That's why I like trading. Like, I do a lot of trades because, like, if I trade a Stern Pro for a Stern Pro, I'm like, well, to me, like, I bought a lot of new in-box games. I'm like, both of them were 7K. It doesn't really matter to me. I just traded. I didn't sell anything and lose anything. Yeah, I love the trading. I love the temp trading, too. Temp trading is amazing. Yeah. Because then you can dip your toe in the water, you can play a game for a few nights, and then you just get your old one back. Yeah, Neil likes to borrow my games, and he lets us. He loans games here, too, as well, so that's nice. But yeah, I'm borrowing an Addams Family. I've had this Addams Family, I don't know, probably like damn near a year. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. I'm pretty hyped. My buddy Andrew, he's a new friend. He started playing at the break, but he actually lives like very close to me. He lives on the same island that I live on. He's starting to build a collection, and I think we're going to get some temp trades going here soon. Because he has a Jaws 50th or 75th or what is it? 50th, right? Yep. He's got Jaws 50th. He's got Dr. Dude, Strikes and Spares. Oh, you've met him actually. He came down to the studio. Oh, yeah. Super nice. Yep. Yeah. Andrew and Morgan. Cool. And he just got an F-14. Oh, that was my second game ever.
    55:45
    Man. Those things are always fucked up on the play field. The inserts, man. Well, I have a line on one that I believe is in really good shape. Oh, cool. Fun asking. So, yeah, this is actually something I can talk about, too. Yeah, go ahead.
    56:04
    So, John Marsh, he's the guy that did Spaceballs. He's like one of the godfathers of homebrew. He was doing this homebrew stuff. I played it at TPF this year. It was there. They had it over there in their booth. Cool. So his widow, unfortunately, he passed away a year or two ago. She hit me up while I was at Pemberg, so we couldn't fully work this out. But basically, she has all of his stuff, like all of his gaming stuff. And, you know, it's time to move on from some of it. Obviously, she's going to keep Spaceballs forever. Right, yep. They've got a Guardians that she's going to keep. Cool. But she's got an F-14 that she's going to move on. He's got all kinds of extra ramps and parts and just all kinds of stuff from the Pinbrew. Right, yeah, homebrewing and stuff. Yeah, yeah, the homebrew. So I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to go over there and basically catalog everything that she has. And I'm going to go on the – this is my plan anyway. Anyway, this is very early stages because this is brand new. But I'm going to go on the Homebrew Facebook group, and I think I'm going to do a claim sale. So that's something that's big in card collecting. So you go on a group and you start a claim sale where basically you post whatever card it is, you post a desired value, And then most of the time people say, we'll entertain offers. And you leave the claim sale open for like, let's say a week. So it's first come first serve if the person is willing to pay the asking price. So if somebody posts like claim at asking, then they just get it, right? And then if nobody is claiming at asking, people can post offer so-and-so. I offer 50 bucks for this. And at the end of the week, you go through and the ones that didn't go for asking, you give to the highest bidder essentially. If the bid is high enough for you to let it go. So I'm thinking of doing that and I think that people will want to buy his stuff just because he is such a figure in the homebrew community. And it's a way to, like this is all stuff that he accumulated over his time homebrewing. I think a lot of people would like to. A, support his widow, you know, but also just, you know, have a little piece of his collection, you know? Yeah, and put in one of their games, hopefully. Exactly. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping. Have you talked to Jake that runs the Facebook group? He's a super cool dude. I haven't talked to him about it yet. So she hit me up, I want to say, on Saturday, the last day of Pinnberg. And she kind of, like, we talked a little bit about it. And she just said, you know, just hit me up whenever you get back to town.
    59:03
    So I'm probably going to call her this weekend and just go over there and see what she's got. Awesome. Yeah, that'd be cool. I'll have to keep an eye out for that and we'll have to share it once it's up if everything works out. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, she's got she's got the F-14 that I'm sure that I can find somebody to take home. Yeah. Steve Ritchie game, ass kicker, super fast. Also, if anybody wants a Bram Stoker's Dracula, I have a nice one in Richmond Hill, Georgia, and everything works. And it's been gone through. Oh, man, Kristen. Someone come buy it. Kristen was like, hey, did you see Sterling selling his Dracula? I was like, I didn't see that. It's actually Will's. It's not mine. So I'm selling it for Will. And I was going to buy it, but there's so many things on the table. I'm trying to still catch up a little bit, and Fallout's going to come out, and then I'm going to freak out. Yeah. So that's one that me and Kristen had for a long time. And so I think she was kind of like, hey, you know, I was planning on buying it so much that I have a playfield protector for it, even in the closet. You just went ahead and bought it? Yeah.
    60:13
    Oh, and I put a new set of legs on it. And I don't know where the old legs are. I'm like, well, fuck. I was like, whoever gets Will's game gets the legs. And I'll probably just give them the damn play field protector because what the hell am I going to do with that shit? But I just got too much on my plate and I still need to build a second bathroom by the building. So I really want to do that. That would be clutch, not having to walk all the way. That would be nice. So you still need to build a homebrew pinball machine as well. No shit. That's going to cost some money. It's in your set aside some money. It's in your suite so you can work on it when you come visit. Dude, I've got I still have ideas. The only problem is I already know the rules for one of the modes. The only problem is the legs for the machine my buddy has because he's getting game powder coated and he's using my legs so he doesn't have to take his game apart. So I can't even set up my homebrew. Hold on. So is it sitting on the bed or is it sitting on it? It's folded up. Oh, OK. It's on its ass in there. I hate to tell you, Sterling, but I don't think I'm going to be able to work on it like that. Oh, I know. And it doesn't have a play field on it. So that's, you know, that makes it a little hard to play. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now I remember. I remember where it's at. Yeah my buddy working on it and he got it all in there but he wants to tweak it some So I still waiting on him to finish that Then we can cut a playfield And then I can Once a playfield cut I got all the shit to make it work You already have this stuff from Fast? I've got all the stuff from Fast. I've got all the wire that Fast recommended to wire the whole game. And I've already wired up the whole back box. It already has all the boards and all that wired. So all I've got to do is wire up the game. And I've got lamps. So I've got everything. You've already got flippers to put in it? Yeah, because remember, it's a rethink. So I've got, like, that really helps. Oh, yeah, you've got a lot of stuff. Yeah. Oh, my God. Like, I could build a game in a few days if I could get a damn play field. Yeah, just get that play field. Now, I do have another. Is it, like, important tweaks, or is he just, like, nitpicking? I don't know. I really don't know. We've got to get the game going. It won't have inserts on the first one, which I was like, well, that's, yeah, it doesn't need it. They probably like get a play field cut with all the shit on it, you know, all the shots. You want to draw the inserts in pencil. That's what I was thinking. And figure out what it's going to be. Yeah. Like first you got to, we got to flip it and kind of figure out the base. Like you're going to do this to start that. You're going to do that to start this. Figure that stuff out and then start conceptualizing what the inserts are going to say. Like how many inserts do we need for this? Right. What configuration are they going to be in? That sounds like a wonderful job for David. Yeah, I will do that. I want to. Because if Sterling designed the rules, people would be like, this shit is the most shallow game I've ever played in my life. Listen, it's a homebrew, so it can't be super... Oh, I know that. I know. You know, I wouldn't even want to try to make it super deep because it's a homebrew. Because it's just going to get played at shows. And, you know, I would get to the wizard mode. Yeah, I would say things need to be easy to get to and maybe ways to skip to to get to other things. So you could try. I would like a program where you could like hold the flippers in like a stern and then maybe like skip to certain things. If that's I don't know if that's a nightmare to code in. I think that the key would be, you know, however many mode trees you have to have at least one mode that's really good on each tree. So that like whenever people play it, you know, have it kind of like the easiest accessible mode is like really awesome, you know, so that people play and be like, oh, did you play such and such mode? It was really cool. Like, whatever. You know, you don't have to have a fully fleshed out game for a homebrew. You just need to be able to show like this is the shot layouts that I can come up with. This is kind of like, you know, my rule concepts that I have. You know, this is how I integrate. You know, you just got to be able to show that you're being thoughtful and, you know, you have creativity, I think. Now we got to make it super deep. We're going to set it's going to be the first game to ever be defaulted to 12 ball. Oh, my God. 12 ball. Eric Stone is playing it for eight days straight at this point. Dude, Eric Stone. Oh, my God. That guy, I know that he made it extremely far in Pinnberg. After like day two or maybe even going into day three, he made a post on Facebook saying, I should have stayed home. I shouldn't even come up here. I could have been making money at home. This is a waste of my time and all this shit. And then he ended up like killing it. He has thrown a chair before. I heard that.
    65:10
    I just thought it was funny because it's like he's like venting about, I guess, how the games are playing. I was standing near him at one point and he was telling somebody like, you know, he started off with he swept the round. So if you win all four of your games in the round, you get a special special medallion. It's like they have medals set aside. It's hard to do, obviously. Yeah. I almost did it last year. Nice. This year, not even close. But yeah, he was talking about how he got the medallion in the first round, and then he was like, oh, it just fucking fell apart, blah, blah, blah. I was looking at the standings, and I was like, dude, he's like third right now. What the hell? What's he talking about?
    65:55
    Oh, geez, that guy. He's wild, man. He's really fucking good at pinball, though. Right. It was pretty funny. One of my tournaments, I don't think he'd care if I said this, but it was hilarious. Shannon, that comes to my tournaments, Stafford. Oh, he did good this weekend. He was, uh, Tristan, he got a little mad after one of the games and Stacy yelled at him. She's like, all right, Tristan.
    66:20
    Wow. I was like, whoa. That's a double, that's a double insult because that's insulting Shannon by saying he acts like his son. They both give her some. So how does his son normally act? They give her so much shit. She's like, I'm taking this one.
    66:36
    She was working. She was working bash at the Berg. That's the only time I really talked to her. She was just scorekeeping. Yeah. I like she did play. I think she played in the tournament, but I only saw her while she was scorekeeping. And I didn't I talked to Shannon right whenever we got there, but he was doing so well that like. And I was doing so mediocre that our paths just didn't cross because it's kind of tiered Swiss. So it's not tiered Swiss, but you end up playing with the good players whenever you're playing good.
    67:11
    And I was like – I was watching the stream a little bit. I never saw David, unfortunately. No. Were you on stream some, though? I didn't watch all of it. Oh, man, I did. And it was like one of the worst games of the weekend that I was on. I played this game Spring Break. I've heard of it. I have a play field in my shed that is a piece of shit. Well, there is a there's a place right behind where the left flipper is where it's supposed to be like a wire or a post or something. And of course, it was removed, but it also is covered up by a plastic. So it's like the you know how, you know, one corner of the plastic has a post on it to support it. So they took that post out, so the plastic's still hanging over it. Right, and you can't even see the post. And there's no post. Yeah, you can't really see. You got to look hard at it to see that there's no post. It got me literally every time. But if you watch the stream, I want to say that out of the four people, so four people, three balls, that's 12 balls, right, for the round, for that game. I want to say that like eight or nine of the drains were because of that damn post being pulled. So it wasn't, you know, the other people dealt with it better than I did. Let's just say that. Right.
    68:35
    But yeah, that was my only time on stream. I was super bummed. Well, I even told I told Tom like Tom was wheeling it. Yeah. And I was like, don't do it, Tom. Don't do it. And he was like, oh, come on. You're going to show us how to play it. And I was like, God, fuck you, man. And then I just shit the bed. It was horrible. And I was just sitting there thinking, I was like, man, fucking goddammit, man. The one time I get on stream, like, I'm having a bad weekend. I could have at least, like, showed something there, but then I get put on this shitty game that I've never played. Right. And it sucks, too, because the layout is very similar to RoboWare. And I had a RoboWare forever. Like, I should be able to hit that ramp over and over, but I didn't. Do you ever feel that streaming rigs are like slightly distracting when playing any games? Especially like if you haven't warmed up on it yet, you kind of walk up to it. So I find that I get excited about it if I'm playing good up to that point. And then they're putting the streaming rig on me, then I'm like pumped. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm about to fuck this shit up. But if I'm not doing good, it gives me so much stress and anxiety if I'm not playing well. Now that's, you know, listen, that is mental weakness. Right. That's a problem for me. That's a me problem, right? But it does happen. You know, sometimes it pumps me up. Sometimes it brings me down. It's just I am mentally just all over the place. I think there's one game we forgot to talk about earlier as well. One from Multimorphic. Oh, yeah. Two. Two, technically. Yeah.
    70:13
    Wow. Yeah. Dungeon Crawl. Dude, it's a tongue twister. It is. I can never say it. That's why I let you say it. I was like, Carl. Dungeon, Carl. Oh, my God. Dungeon, Crawler, Carl. There we go. We said it together. Yeah, there we go.
    70:32
    Wow. So the rumor was originally that that was going to be Barrows and that it was going to be Carl D'Angelo. And then all of a sudden, Multimorphic steps into the ring.
    70:48
    And apparently they originally were doing what's the what's the name of the other game? Oh, my gosh. I don't even remember the name of it.
    70:58
    Is it is it terrible to say I don't remember the name of the other? I don't think anybody else cares about the other theme. Well, here's the thing, though. Dungeon Crawler Carl is so hot right now. Like everyone wants that. Yeah. But if you look it up like that other book has millions of of downloads. It's like one of the top five sci-fi. Oh, shit. Yeah. It's like one of the biggest sci-fi IPs in literature. They made a movie about it with Harrison Ford in it. Like, it's obviously a big deal. Okay. I don't know. We've been living under a rock. What do you think about the shots on the game? I haven't really looked into that game really deeply. I'm not a big P3 person, per se. My initial reaction to the layout is that I hate the gigantic round rotating thing above the main part of the playfield, above the screen. I feel like that's going to be so distracting.
    72:00
    I think that the game itself looks cool. I think that the fact that they got the audiobook guy to do all the callouts is amazing for DCC. That's just what I'm going to start calling it. It's so much easier to say that. Yeah, that was a really smart choice to not make your own voices because everyone is listening to this damn audio book right now. Yeah, I mean, I even started it on the way home from Pinnberg. Kristen was reading her actual book because she actually reads like, you know, a normal person. And I was like, oh, well, if you're just reading, you know, I'm not going to listen to this mixed playlist that has half your songs on it. If you're not even paying attention, you're reading. I'm going to start this DCC audiobook, and I made her use – she gets free book credits through Amazon Prime. So I made her spin one on the first book, and I listened to it like half of the ride home. Nice. I'm like in there now. I know what's going on. Are you digging it? So here's the thing. I've never been a big audiobooks person. I can't ever get into them. This is literally my first one. So I'm like brand new. But so here's the thing. I hate the voice that the guy chose for the main character. He sounds like.
    73:23
    Who's the guy? Come on, guys. Ron Livingston. It sounds like Ron Livingston mixed with like with like Rooster Cogburn or something. It just sounds like he's trying too hard. It's like you're just a dude. Yeah, it's not a normal 27-year-old's voice. Like whenever I picture the character, I don't picture a 27-year-old from Seattle. Right. You know, that is not what a 27-year-old from Seattle sounds like at all.
    73:53
    But other than that, I think that it's really cool. I like RPGs, like RPG video games. I've never done, you know, the literary RPGs before because I'm just not a reader. Yeah. But in general, the concept of RPGs, I love. Like, that's what I grew up playing. So the fact that they have found a way to basically throw someone into an RPG video game but make it not a video game, it's real life, you know, in this universe.
    74:30
    I think it's really cool, man. And they can do that. The way that they write it, it gives themselves outs to do anything that they want. Like they state in one of the things like like he goes through and he gets awarded boxes and like treasure chests and stuff. And there's like a like an omniscient, you know, person that sees everything that he's doing and comments on it and, you know, whatever. However, there's a point that says like, hey, if you find an exploit, you know, we we reserve the right to nerf it, basically, is what it says. So they can use that later on in the book. I'm sure that they do. They use it to like throw a twist in the story like, oh, you know, Carl figures out that he can do this and like it gets him past this impossible boss. And then they come in and I'm sure that they say, hey, you got away with that one, but we're not going to let you do that anymore. So I just think the possibilities are endless with the story. Like it could literally go anywhere. And from judging by the art on the game, there's like dinosaurs. There's like slime monsters. There's all kinds of wild shit. How many books is there? Are there like seven, eight? Holy shit.
    75:49
    And I think that this game covers seven. So it covers a lot. But it sounded like they're like working on it. One book at a time. So like book one, the code for book one is like pretty fleshed out, but like the later books is not.
    76:03
    So I don't do like, but it also didn't sound like it was linear though. They should do the evil dad thing or, you know, at the beginning of evil dad, how you can choose evil dad one or two, like you could go through and choose which book you want to play.
    76:15
    It sounded, it sounded like from the little bit that I heard that it's not linear so that you can pick different books, kind of like Harry Potter. Okay, cool. But I think that maybe they just haven't worked as much on the later books as they did the earlier books. Right. Is what it sounded like to me. But I think for the layout, I mean, I like the P3. Like, I really like Portal a lot.
    76:38
    I think that I can't get over the flippers. Like, if you can't tell from talking to me, I'm like a big flipper snob. Upper flippers, like, very important to me. The way the flippers feel is very important on the lower flippers. Dude, I'm sorry. It just kind of bothers me. They need to find a screen manufacturer that can put a hole in that damn screen. I know. Is that possible? I feel like there should be able to drill a hole through that. Drill a hole? I was thinking manufacturer one with a hole. Well, yes. Yes. Manufacturer one with a hole. Whatever.
    77:13
    Obviously, the screen is all connected. All of the dots are connected. So you can't just drill a hole. But I feel like there should be a way that they could do it to where the screen is a special shape that can accommodate. It's probably expensive as shit to do that, though. Oh, yeah. I think they found a screen that works for their product, and they're purchasing that screen, and they probably do not have the funds. Yeah, they're getting that from Alibaba for like $20 a screen or something. Yeah, I'm sure it's just a monitor, or it's probably a monitor. I can't even talk right now. But yeah, monitor. Because like, you know, in like your Stern games and stuff, that display is just a laptop display. That's what they're using.
    77:58
    Yeah, that makes sense. Like if you look up the part numbers, you're like, oh shit, this is just a laptop screen. Yeah, it just has a different, has a bezel that holds it in place, you know? It's just, yeah, it's just, yeah, exactly. And by the way, if you ever want to buy a replacement Stern screen, just type in the model number because it's like half the price, as well as the power supply. Did you crack a screen somehow? No, I found all this out doing the homebrew. I was just like, I had to research the screen and figure out how to tap into it for the homebrew, and it was pretty damn easy. It actually looks very similar to how Spooky taps into their screens. So you didn't actually have to buy one. You just found out this. Yeah, you can find these. You're using the one that came on the donor game. Right, yeah, because I wanted to keep it nice and clean. That's something I do see a lot of homebrew people kind of struggle with is like how to mount a screen. I've seen TVs in the back and all that where it's like, man, Stern's already designed a really nice thing to hold a screen. Let's just try to utilize that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that I think that doing stuff like that, like doing off the wall things with the screen and and making like very DIY looking, you know, bezel for the screen. is a way that signals like this is a homebrew, which is not what you want. That's not what you want. No, I want it to look like commercial. It does not look like a homebrew. Yeah. I want someone to walk by and be like, who makes this? It's like me. Well, yours. Mine's going to look like a Stern. Yeah. They're going to be like, I don't look like a homebrew. They're going to be like, when did Stern make?
    79:33
    Yeah. Man, I really, I, man, we got to get going. One of these fucking days, man. One of these days. Well, we're at hour and 20. You want to go ahead and cut it here? Yeah, that sounds good. I mean, this is like a bonus episode. I wasn't even planning on doing one this quick, but just the pinball world went crazy this week, so we just had to do it. Yeah, man. I'm glad we did do it because apparently we had plenty to talk about. I know. Yeah. I don't know when the next time we're going. Is it going to be a month from now? Is it going to be two weeks from now? I don't know, but I guess we'll find out. I think we should just do it when it feels right. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Today I was so excited to talk about Bimball and I hit Sterling up and was just like, can we do it tonight? And he was like, yeah. Yeah, I'm going out of town in the morning. So you caught me at the right time to do it. I'm going to try to edit this. Today is what the fuck is today? Thursday? I'll try to get it out hopefully Friday night or Saturday morning and give people something to listen to over at Southern Pride. Yeah. Today is actually Wednesday. Oh, is it Wednesday? Today's Wednesday. Yeah, you're losing track of time. I am. Okay, well, I'll get this out Friday. Sweet. All right, man. All right, later, buddy. Peace.
    80:49
    Actually, we've got to end this special episode on a very special song. Without further ado, Spooky Luke. It's my life. It's now or never. I ain't gonna live forever. I just wanna live my life It's my life My heart is like an open high My thinking said I did it my way I just wanna live my life It's my life
    81:37
    This is for the ones who stood their ground. Tommy and Gina, you never back down.