Episode 853: "So Much Flipping News!"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·23m 0s·analyzed·Oct 2, 2023

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Venom criticized as mediocre; Labyrinth mystery game predicted for Expo; Back to the Future rumored from non-Stern maker.

Summary

Kaneda reviews Venom pinball as mediocre and overpriced compared to Godzilla and Foo Fighters, predicts a mystery Labyrinth-themed game by a new company debuting at Pinball Expo in three weeks, discusses rumors of Back to the Future pinball from a non-Stern manufacturer, and criticizes Stern's unsustainable production model and pricing strategy while lamenting quality decline across the industry.

Key Claims

Venom is mediocre with uninspired gameplay and overpriced at $13,000/$10,000/$7,000 compared to Godzilla and Foo Fighters
high confidence · Kaneda played Venom 20 times at Jack Bar and directly compared it to other Stern titles
A mystery pinball company will debut a new game at Pinball Expo in three weeks with finished machines available for purchase on-site
high confidence · Kaneda discusses this as confirmed news, states 'in just three weeks' and discusses delivery on day one
The mystery game is likely Labyrinth based on clues including 'upside down' references, maze flipper, and David Van Earthshaker's departure from Spooky
medium confidence · Kaneda made prediction based on puzzle clues and industry knowledge about Van Earthshaker wanting to make Labyrinth
Back to the Future pinball is coming and not from Stern Pinball
medium confidence · Kaneda states 'I'm hearing very strong rumors' and claims to have more information to reveal later
Stranger Things is being re-released as a vault with improved projector and potentially Premium Edition at $10,250
medium confidence · Kaneda speculates based on Stern's patterns of vaulting successful games and their pricing model
Venom will become a bargain basement game quickly due to poor design and sales already tanking
medium confidence · Kaneda's opinion based on gameplay experience and observation of market response
Stern's production model of multiple games plus vaults per year is unsustainable for distributors
medium confidence · Kaneda analyzes distributor inventory pressure with Venom and Jurassic Park 30th sitting unsold
David Van Earthshaker left Spooky Pinball because they would not let him design Labyrinth
low confidence · Kaneda references this as known industry history but provides no direct sourcing

Notable Quotes

“If you have an order in there or similar interjection on a Venom, I would cancel the order. This game is just mediocre.”
Kaneda @ early section — Direct recommendation against purchasing Venom; core thesis of episode
“Venom is just a mediocre pinball machine that is never going to hold any single value.”
Kaneda @ early-mid section — Prediction of secondary market depreciation
“They're absolutely going to trump Brian Eddy's new game with one of Brian Eddy's older titles.”
Kaneda @ mid section — Criticism of Stern's strategy to vault Stranger Things instead of supporting Venom
“I'm hearing very strong rumors that a theme that everybody really wants... Back to the Future is happening, people, and it's not happening by Sam Stern Pinball.”
Kaneda @ late section — Major rumor about significant IP coming to non-Stern manufacturer
“The offerings we've been getting over the last few years have been mediocre. Every once in there or similar interjection a while, there's a good game.”
Kaneda @ mid section — Broader industry criticism of quality decline
“This game needs an upper flipper. I mean this. When I was playing Venom, all I was wishing for, it needs an upper flipper.”
Kaneda @ late section — Specific design criticism of Venom's playfield layout
“I'm so honest when I say this to you. It means more to me when you tell me that not only did you make better pinball decisions because of me, but you decided to change your life a little bit for the positive.”
Kaneda @ closing section — Personal statement of values regarding listener impact beyond pinball
“I was up at four in the morning, first person to break the news about Labyrinth.”
Kaneda @ closing section — Assertion of media speed advantage

Entities

KanedapersonStern PinballcompanyVenomgame Godzillagame Foo Fightersgame Stranger Thingsgame Labyrinthgame

Signals

?
business_signal: Stern's unsustainable production model of multiple games plus vaults creating distributor inventory pressure; Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary and Venom units sitting unsold
medium · Kaneda analyzes distributor capacity to absorb multiple new Stern releases while other manufacturers release simultaneously
?
competitive_signal: New boutique manufacturer positioning itself against Stern and other boutiques by learning from industry mistakes and delivering finished product immediately
medium · Kaneda describes company as having 'looked at the entire industry, seen every mistake that every boutique has made' and avoiding delay/deposit model
?
design_philosophy: Brian Eddy's design philosophy criticized as repetitive 'fun layout' approach lacking mechanical innovation; Venom represents lack of creative evolution
medium · Kaneda: 'you can't just keep doing fun layout after fun layout. You've got to get more creative' and 'once Foo Fighters dropped... Brian Eddy... looks like he's out of ideas'
?
leak_detection: Labyrinth predicted as mystery game theme based on puzzle clues including 'upside down,' maze flipper, and George Jr. reference to Jim Henson film
medium · Kaneda decoded public clues and cross-referenced industry knowledge of David Van Earthshaker's departure from Spooky regarding Labyrinth licensing
$
market_signal: Venom experiencing poor sales and rapid secondary market depreciation despite $10k-$13k price point
medium · Kaneda states 'sales have tanked on Venom already' and predicts it becoming 'bargain basement' quickly; Stern's response is to vault Stranger Things instead of supporting new title

Transcript

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0:00

I'm gonna stake my claim, I'll fight to survive! Oh, welcome everybody! Happy Monday to Canada's Pinball Podcast. I'm super pumped. I've been at the gym since like 7am and what a weekend for pinball. I thought I was going to have not much news to talk about, but let's talk about it right now. We've got Venom First Impressions. I went over to Jack Bar. I played about $20 on Venom. I'm going to talk about that. We've got the Mystery Pinball Machine giving out clues in a crossword puzzle. Has Kaneda figured out the puzzle? That is the mystery game that might be based on a movie that is actually a literal puzzle. Kaneda gets covered on Naps Arcade twice in one week, and it's time to retire. We're going to talk about Brian Eddy making a game that's going to now dethrone Brian Eddy's current release in freaking Stranger Things coming back. We're going to talk about maybe we talk about the Chicago PD might need to get involved if Canada goes to the media mixer. Canada has been threatened with police intervention, but he's not going to let the haters get him down. Let's get into it right now on this episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast, because we have so much more interesting pinball news to talk about. first and foremost I want to say thank you to everybody who's been sharing photos of your physical transformations with me I'm so happy that this show has inspired some of you to care more about yourselves than your pinball machines and all I ask of each and every one of you is just take 20 minutes a day and apply it to thinking about what you eat your exercise and don't play as much pinball as you take care of yourselves I said this if you just spend a quarter of time exercising as opposed to playing pinball machines, you would both be better at pinball and at life. So let's get everybody to the final wizard mode in life. All right, let's get right to it. So Venom, I went to Jack Bar. There was nobody on the machine. Finally, for once, nobody was hogging the machine. It was a beautiful day outside and that's why nobody was on the machine. And so I got to play this machine 20 times and I've heard the hype. I've heard the concerns. I've heard everything about this game. And what was nice about playing Venom at Jack Bar is I could go from Godzilla to Foo Fighters to Venom. And I played all three games over and over and over again. And here's my first impressions on Venom Pinball Machine. If you have an order in on a Venom, I would cancel the order. This game is just mediocre. It is mediocre in every sense of the word. The only thing interesting happening in this game is in the art package itself. But man, this game is so just up and down. The more I played the game, the more I was just longing for some left to right action in the machine. Every single shot is just north to south, south to north, waiting for the ball to come back down. And yes, I get those like interesting ball locks that dispense the ball like when you hit some of the ramps. But that does not make the machine that interesting. I was craving for something more unique to happen in the gameplay of the game itself. And then you look at the code of the game and what's happening in the game. and it's a combination of all that's wrong with some of these modern pinball attempts. Everything is happening on the screen. You walk up to this game on location and you can't just start playing the game. The game doesn't really talk to you or tell you what to do. You have to study each different symbiote and its attributes and what the benefits are of choosing each one. And just think about that for a minute. You walk up to a game and for the first time, you got to sit there and read all of these different qualities of all of these different symbiotes and then you have to select them and then remember what you just read as you're playing the pinball machine. And when you start playing the pinball machine, you feel absolutely nothing. That's the thing about Venom to me. It's like I didn't really bring much to Venom, but man, what is even going on in this game? The play field is filled with all of these inserts two times, three times, four times, five times, seven times. I'll tell you this for the tenth time in a row, people. Venom is just a mediocre pinball machine that is never going to hold any single value. And I don't understand how Stern could, with a straight face, price this pinball machine at $3,000 more for an LE than freaking Godzilla was. And then I went over to Foo Fighters and oh my gosh, what a better design. What a better layout. And it was a Foo Fighters Pro. It wasn't like this is Foo Fighters Premium. Maybe it was Foo Fighters Premium. I think it's a Foo Fighters Pro. But there's so much more in Foo Fighters than there is in Venom. No, it's a Foo Fighter Pro at Jack Bar. And then you go over to freaking Godzilla and there's like four times more things to do in that game than in Venom. And that's the problem with this game. It's like for this much money, I don't know how you wake up and buy this game. This is going to be a bargain basement game so quickly in the world of pinball. And nobody considers this game to be a failure more than Stern Pinball themselves because this is Brian Eddy's game. And what are they doing knowing that sales have tanked on Venom already? what are they going to do? They're going to re-release this Tuesday tomorrow, Stranger Things again. Oh my gosh, have we ever seen this before? They're absolutely going to trump Brian Eddy's new game with one of Brian Eddy's older titles. And if that doesn't send a signal to everybody in this pinball world that Stern Pinball is capable of failure, but look how quickly they can erase their failures by just vaulting a game that was more successful and has a lot more demand. Something about all of this just isn sitting well with me You going to bring back Stranger Things and charge so much more for it The rumor is they are going to make the projector even better in this version of Stranger Things Cool. So then what about all the older Stranger Things owners? Are you going to make them pay more money to get the better projector? And then is the UV kit going to come installed in the game? Because the UV kit was like 260 bucks. And so we know Storm Pinball does not leave money on the table. So are we going to see a Stranger Things premium for like $10,250? I think we might. But again, I just zoom out a little bit and I'm like, how can Stern Pinball price Venom as much as games that are far superior? And is every single pinball machine from Stern Pinball going to be this expensive and then some no matter the theme, no matter how much is in it, no matter how much creativity goes into the actual product itself? I don't get it. They make too many products for every single one to be the same price, right? If they were just making one a year, I would get it. But now that they're making like three a year plus vaults, plus reruns of anniversary editions of stuff like Jurassic Park, which by the way, is still not sold out. So people are pushing back a little bit. And so here's what I think is going to happen. I think we're going to see Stranger Things Pro and Premium tomorrow. I don't think we're going to see an LE or anniversary edition. And the reason why is it's not an anniversary year of the show Stranger Things. I do think they're going to run more Stranger Things LEs down the road as an anniversary vault. They've got all the parts to do it. All they need to do is change the cabinet decals and then the translate and voila, you got a $13,000 or $15,000 anniversary edition of a game that came out years ago. I also think Stranger Things is a game that's a little bit like Pirates of the Caribbean. I think there's fondness for it because it's hard to get. I think when it was easily available, there wasn't that much fondness. And I think there's this weird FOMO that happens that a lot of people haven't been able to play a Stranger Things because the run of Stranger Things didn't happen that long because when it came out, it wasn't very popular. And so now that everybody can get their hands on one, is that going to diminish a little bit of people's reception to the game? We shall see. I'm not excited about what's behind us. I'm excited about what's down the road. So let's go on to what's down the road in pinball. And let's talk about this mystery pinball machine that is coming to Expo this year. In just three weeks, this company is going to bring new in-box games to Pinball Expo so people can go to the show itself, see the new game, put it in the back of their truck or van, and drive it home and own it that day. This company has looked at the entire industry. They've seen every mistake that every boutique has made, and they are not going to repeat those mistakes. This is great. This isn't Haggis Pinball where it's like, send your money in and in eight years from now, you're going to get your game. No, these guys are showing up on day one with games made, with manufacturing happening. None of the shenanigans. I don't know if they're going to ask for non-refundable deposits if they get a few hundred orders, but we will see what happens. Now, the real story is the theme of this game. This game is most likely going to be, as Kaneda predicted, Labyrinth. Jim Henson directed David Bowie movie with Jennifer Connelly, Labyrinth from 1986. It's a really quirky movie. It's up there with movies like The Never Ending Story. I think a lot of people's wives love this movie more than you do. So you might have a wife out there that's like, yes, let's go get Labyrinth. Now, on a theme alone basis, if this is true and this is the theme of this game, And the reason why I made this prediction to be Labyrinth, other than the clues that said stuff like upside down, turn your world upside down and rock and roll. And the actual flipper was a maze in the puzzle itself. And George Jr. is referring to George Lucas Jr., who was the executive producer of Labyrinth. So it's all right there. But the real clue I knew about that some of you didn't pick up on, this was years ago. when David Van Ness left Spooky Pinball, the reason he left Spooky Pinball, and if you don't know who David Van Ness is, he's super talented. He's super amazing. He did all of the animations on games like Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle that were incredible. He did animations on Rick and Morty, and he left Spooky Pinball. You know why he left? Because he wanted a chance to make his game with Spooky Pinball. Because if you don't know what happens when you make a game with Spooky, you get paid more money. Scott Denise made a lot of money making Rick and Morty for Spooky Pinball because they got a certain amount of money per game sold. So let's just say you even make like $500 per game and you sell freaking 750 games. That's a lot of money in the bank. And David Van Ness wanted to make Labyrinth with Spooky Pinball. And they did not want to make the game and David Van Ness departed Spooky Pinball. Now all of a sudden here we are like years later. We've got fast pinball making the boards for this game. I've been hearing rumors that there are people we know and trust in the industry behind this title. I've been asked by people associated with the game to keep an open mind about the theme. Now you know when Canadian Heroes a theme like Labyrinth. It is not something that says take my money now. Now, that being said, when we saw the underside of the playfield, it looks like there's a lot of stuff happening in this game. There's two magnets. It looks like there's an upper playfield. There's subways. There's scoops. There's bucks. It seems like this game is going to be pretty loaded. We know the artwork is going to be beautiful. And so now we know that this thing is happening in three weeks Let just talk about the theme There no way around it For most of us out there this is not a take my money now theme They're going to have to win us over and take us through an emotional labyrinth to get to a place where we're going to buy this game. And the other thing is this is how much is this game going to cost? How many a week are they going to make? And, you know, there's a lot of questions that have yet to be answered with this game. Who's coding this game? What are the animations going to be like? They're going to be good if it's David Van Ness. But man, are they going to get all the assets from the movie? And there's other people that have said this, like the soundtrack in this movie is not the most amazing soundtrack. But are they going to get all the clips with David Bowie, with the music, with Jennifer Connelly? And I think if they can package it all together in a really unique way and make the game look stunning and make a real world under glass, they do have a fighting chance. You know what I think is going to happen? I think this game is going to come out. I think it's going to be received very positively because of everybody behind it. And I think the game itself is going to be embarrassing to games like Galactic Tank Force. I think what's in this game is going to be embarrassing to games like Venom. I think it's going to be embarrassing to games like The Godfather. And I think if you're like me, a lot of us have been watching this industry over the last few years. And we're like, where is this industry going? Why aren't these companies putting more into the games? Why isn't there more hunger and desire and drive to show us what these companies are capable of? And the offerings we've been getting over the last few years have been mediocre. Every once in a while, there's a good game. But for the most part, all of these boutique companies haven't really brought the fire. And I think we're looking for a company to make a name for itself. This company wants to do that. I think we're looking for a company to show us true creativity underneath the play field. I think this company is looking to do that. I think we're looking for a company to do physical, mechanical stuff in machines that makes us smile and makes us say, wow, did you see what the ball did? I think this company is going to do that. And this is just game one from this company. And if they can come out of the gate, and this is a fair thing, if this company can come out of the gate with a game better than Galactic Tank Force, come out of the gate with a game more inspiring than Toy Story 4 and The Godfather, If they can come out of the gate with a game that looks much better than Venom, then I really do think people are going to keep an open mind. And I think having some variety that has some passion in it is sorely needed in this pinball industry. I've been talking to a lot of you offline. A lot of you are starting to lose your love with the hobby. The high prices have you feeling overwhelmed.

14:09

What you're seeing in front of you, you know is not worth it. The narrative being driven by other pinball media to just buy every single thing that comes out has exhausted you. Those people have worked against this hobby. They haven't demanded more in pinball and the prices are going through the roof and it's not a fun thing to cheerlead. And I think for a lot of you out there, you're like me. We want games worth cheerleading and we're really rooting for this new company. We were all rooting for Galactic Tank Force. We didn't want that game to tank. They made it tank because the game is uninspired on every single level. And people think like, oh, the artwork is so amazing on Galactic Tank Force. Go look at that play field. Lift up that play field. There's like nothing on it. It's like all gradient colors. Where is the inspired artwork everybody's talking about? You know, Christopher Franchi is capable of amazing things, but man, there's not an amazing amount of Franchi detail on that game. All right. So that's the Mystery Pinball Company. Wow. Okay. All right. So we're going to see this game in just three weeks. On top of this game coming out in three weeks, we are also going to see a new game from the Pinball Brothers. Woo. Who's ready for a remake from the Pinball Brothers? And apparently the Pinball Brothers is making other major moves with somebody who's a US based pinball company. I don't know what that's going to be. It's probably just going to be some exclusive distributor announcement. So here's the thing, people. I'm just going to tell you this right now. Here's the thing. I don't even understand why you buy anything right now. I'm really in this camp. Why would you buy anything right now when you're seeing what's happening to these used game prices? When you know the fact that Keith Elwin's game is around the corner. And I'm about to tell you something right now, people, that I think might blow all of your minds. I'm really excited about this, people. I know Jersey Jack's going to try to get you to buy Elton John. Pinball Brothers wants you to buy a remake. Mystery Pinball Company, they want you to buy Labyrinth if that's the theme. I've been hearing very strong rumors that a theme that everybody really wants, right? Because that's the camp we're in, the theme everybody really wants. And if you really had to hold on to your pennies, you would wait because I'm hearing that Back to the Future is happening, people, and it's not happening by Stern Pinball. And I'm just going to leave it at that. I'm going to leave it at that. I know more information than that, and I will reveal it over time. But I'm just telling you right now, everyone thinks, oh, only Joe Kamikow can go get a theme, well, that's not what I'm hearing. Now, look, I might be wrong on this, but I'm hearing it is coming and it is not coming from Stern Pinball. And now it gets real fun, right? What moment do I jump in, Chris? How can you do this to me? I'm about to spend $10,000 on Stranger Things and now you're telling me we might get back to the future. How am I supposed to live in a world like this, Chris? I'm about to drop so much money on Jaws Pinball, but I much prefer Back to the future as a pinball theme. And that's my point, everybody, is look, my advice to each and every one of you is take care of yourselves Weed out your pinball collections If you had games in your collection and you don play very often just get rid of it Sell it now because we all know that this market is sliding down When I did that other show that showed you how ridiculous the price has got, what goes up must come down. And we're going to see a real softening of the pinball market. And you know who's going to kill it? You know who's going to kill the pinball secondhand market? It's just going to be Stern Pinball. If they make this many games every single week, I mean, think about the pressure they're going to put onto their distributors to have to get all of these games. I mean, these distributors are sitting on Venoms. They're sitting on Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary editions. They're going to have to buy all these stranger things, and then they're going to have to absorb every single new Stern machine. If you just think about that for a second, how is that model sustainable? How are they going to keep three games plus a vault, all of these titles coming one after another, plus all these other pinball companies trying to get our money? And first and foremost, I want to thank each and every one of you that reached out to me and said, hey, Chris, I know you're taking Kili into Disney World, but don't spend the entire time in the Animal Kingdom. Your fears have been addressed. We booked Disney World and we're going to stay in the Magic Kingdom at the Contemporary Hotel and we will spend a day or half day at the Animal Kingdom. So thank you so much, everybody, for reaching out. But I'm just going to tell you this right now. A Disney vacation is the price of a pinball machine. And I would much rather have that experience for Killian and the family than just put another pinball machine in the room. And I know a lot of us are feeling this way. For this much money, you better bring the magic. And that's all we want. That's all we really want. And I'm looking forward to Expo. I'm looking forward to getting excited about this stuff. I'm looking forward to seeing what these companies put in front of us. I'm not going anywhere. Yes, this weekend I was threatened with the Chicago Police Department were going to be called if I showed up to the pinball media mixer. Everybody, it's gone too far. I have no hatred for anybody in the pinball media. I'm so tired of all these people saying they're going to call the police who usually have to deal with real serious issues like they're going to come get Canada. Everybody, Canada's not the media mixer. What do we do? Well, what if you just let him in? What if we just had a few beers? What if we just had a good time? Life is way too short. You know, this ongoing effort to cancel Canada, it's just never going to work. I'm so happy to see at the end of the month we lost our obligatory 15 people. We're still right around 600 subscribers. Thank you, everybody, for being a member of the Canada Club. And hey, if you want to up your subscription, I really do appreciate it. And I love doing this show and I love talking about pinball. But I'm so honest when I say this to you. It means more to me when you tell me that not only did you make better pinball decisions because of me, but you decided to change your life a little bit for the positive. I love seeing those transformations on my Facebook page. I can't wait to get back to doing the Facebook Live, the Saturday Morning Spectacular during Pinball Expo. I'm going to take a little bit of a break. But as you saw this weekend, I was up at four in the morning, first person to break the news about Labyrinth. And thank you so much, Jason Napsy. No bad blood. I mean, come on. You know, there's no bad blood between pinball media. Nothing is personal. It's time we move on and just focus on these machines. Everybody have a great Monday. Venom is a dud. If you have a Venom order, get rid of it. I mean it. If you have a Venom LE, you just lost $3,000. I mean it. This game is boring. It is the worst combination of boring layout with Dwight on code, which is just like, what the heck is going on in this game? None of it is emotive. None of it makes you feel anything. It's just all over the place. Like what a total mistake game. I'm sorry. I'm usually not this harsh on a pinball machine. But again, at these prices, if a game comes out like Venom and it's just eh, then I'm really upset. And it feels like this game should have came out two years ago, right? Like they needed to get Venom out before Foo Fighters. Because once Foo Fighters dropped and showed us new creativity and pinball, Brian Eddy, he just looks like he's out of ideas. And I'm sorry, Brian, but you can't just keep doing fan layout after fan layout. You've got to get more creative. This game needs an upper flipper. I mean this. When I was playing Venom, all I was wishing for, it needs an upper flipper. It needs more shots left to right. It's absolutely boring. Every time the ball heads towards the sides of the cabinet, it's doing nothing interesting. There's no shots there whatsoever. And then you go over to Godzilla, there's like five times as many shots. You go over to Foo Fighters, there's action at all different distances from the flippers left and right. There's stuff happening everywhere. And then you walk up to Venom and then you want to charge me $13,000, $10,000, $7,000 for that uninspired game? No way, Stern Pinball. We are over it. You can't hide behind Zombie Yeti's artwork forever. You got to put more mechanical magic into the game. And it's not a doppelganger swinging out with USB sticks hanging from his butt. Everybody, welcome to the greatest pinball podcast on planet Earth. This winter, we're going to show it with the trippy voting. And we're going to clobber everybody that hates Canadian Pinball Podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you soon.