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The Pinball Show Ep 184: Beetlejuice & The Walking Dead Remastered Announced

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 59m·analyzed·Nov 4, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Stern announces Walking Dead Remastered with debate on licensing, gameplay improvements, and sales outlook.

Summary

Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss Stern's announcement of The Walking Dead Remastered and Beetlejuice, covering production capacity, teaser strategy, game design expectations, and market positioning. They debate the game's ranking decline (57th on Pinside Top 100), licensing implications (AMC TV show vs. graphic novels), and potential code/art improvements. Key tension: Walking Dead's dated pop culture relevance versus its status as one of the best-coded games ever made.

Key Claims

  • Godzilla has likely sold over 15,000 units across all models for Stern

    medium confidence · Zach estimates based on his distribution percentage and market data; Dennis agrees this is likely but notes 20,000 unit games may be impractical in current market without operator volume

  • Walking Dead is ranked 57th on Pinside Top 100, down from 30s historically

    high confidence · Dennis states this explicitly and cites it as a 'crying shame' given the game's quality and design pedigree

  • Walking Dead Remastered will be the first remastered game on Spike 3 system

    high confidence · Zach explicitly states: 'this is the first remastered Spike 3 system game' and notes Metallica is not on Spike 3

  • Stern is producing 500 units of Walking Dead Remastered LE

    high confidence · Zach: '500 units of the LE' mentioned in context of November production schedule

  • The Walking Dead TV show is not widely considered a top-tier television series

    medium confidence · Dennis: 'nobody has The Walking Dead in their top ten TV shows of all time. It's just not that good of a show.' Zach counters, arguing first 4-5 seasons are fantastic

  • Stern's production capacity significantly exceeds other manufacturers

    high confidence · Dennis notes Stern can produce 1,000+ units in single month (Walking Dead LE + 4 Premium titles) while other boutiques like Spooky/JJP operate at much smaller scale; Zach agrees after discussing factory tours

  • No Pro model will be produced for Walking Dead Remastered, only Premium and LE

    high confidence · Zach: 'two models, premium and limited edition, similar to what they did on Metallica' and 'Not to mention, there's not a pro model'

  • Original Walking Dead game had 'redneck' call-outs that many players disliked

    high confidence · Both hosts discuss that many owners installed third-party movie audio packages to replace original call-outs, with Zach noting they were 'so horrible' and 'offensive'

Notable Quotes

  • “I went as the angry tree. The apples. The tree that throws the apples.”

    Zach Minney @ ~00:03:00 — Personal anecdote establishing casual, personable host dynamic; sets tone for informal podcast style

  • “I think a lot of people could lose sight... just how much Stern can actually output versus all the other manufacturers, just their actual build capacity is just significantly more significant.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~00:32:00 — Direct statement about Stern's manufacturing dominance over boutique competitors; key market intelligence

  • “It's one of the more iconic scenes, but I was really disappointed with the teaser... it didn't feel like it was like a J.J.P. animation level.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~00:35:00 — Critical assessment of Walking Dead Remastered animation quality; raises expectations management concern

  • “Arguably my favorite game, Skills. You know, it's a game where it's super hard, which is always one of the things I really liked about it.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~00:41:00 — Personal endorsement of Walking Dead design quality; establishes credibility for subsequent criticism of its ranking decline

  • “This game is 57th on the top 100 at PennSci. 57th... that is a crying shame.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~00:42:00 — Data point establishing community perception gap; Walking Dead's fallen status despite design excellence

  • “If it's my favorite game as it is right now, it's going to be better. This is going to be fantastic.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~01:05:00 — Enthusiastic endorsement suggesting strong collector demand for remaster; bullish on sales performance

  • “Like, what Stern 500 units doesn't sell out? Like, this is Spike 3, 500 units. Spike 3 doesn't matter.”

    Zach Minney @ ~01:08:00 — Indicates strong expected demand; platform irrelevant to sales projection due to IP/design quality

  • “You can play it now. Like, whenever you have hype and you're buying into a game, part of your brain still says, when am I going to get it?... Not only am I excited about it, but my excitement goes up another level when I know that I'll be playing it very soon.”

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonStern PinballcompanyThe Walking Dead (pinball)productWalking Dead RemasteredproductMetallica RemasteredproductGodzilla PremiumproductLyman Sheetsperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Walking Dead Remastered expected to sell significantly less than Metallica Remastered despite using same format (Premium/LE), attributed to dated IP relevance

    medium · Dennis: 'This game is not going to sell like Metallica did' and earlier discussion about Walking Dead's stale media relevance vs. Tron's recent movie release

  • ?

    event_signal: Walking Dead Remastered announcement scheduled for Tuesday, November 4 at 11 AM Central; teaser released week prior (Wednesday/Thursday) rather than typical Friday-Tuesday cadence

    high · Zach: 'November 4th does fall on a Tuesday. That's when this game is launching, viewer, at 11 AM Central... Friday would have been Halloween. Maybe they didn't want it to get lost'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stern's rapid production and delivery capability (2-3 weeks for Walking Dead vs. competitors' longer lead times) positions as key market advantage

    high · Zach: 'if you want one, you can have one in, like, two or three weeks... Stern has that going for him, and I don't know if anybody else is going to catch up to that for a long time'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Walking Dead teaser animation quality underwhelmed; did not signal premium art direction like Jersey Jack animations, raising expectations management concerns

    medium · Dennis: 'it didn't feel like it was like a J.J.P. animation level... I was underwhelmed by what they chose to use to show that it was coming out'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Walking Dead Remastered using AMC TV show licensing approach rather than graphic novel, potentially limiting art package appeal

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.358

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:30
How's it going, everybody? It's the Pinball Show, episode 184 with Dennis Creasel and myself, Zach Minney. Dennis, how are you, my friend? I'm good. How was your Halloween, Zach? Halloween? Spook-a-ween or Halloween? Pin-a-ween. I didn't have any pin-a-ween. Did you give away any American Pinball games to all the kids? We're all a ball. Do you get a lot of trick-or-treaters out where you're at? I don't, kind of, but we weren't home, so we, no, I didn't dress up. We do like a camping thing where we all dress up and we have a family theme thing. This year I was the, I don't know if I talked about this, like the year before I've been Willy Wonka. I've been, we go all out. This year the theme was Wizard of Oz, right, Wizard of Oz. So I was going to go as Dorothy, but my wife wasn't wild about it. I went as – so the kids, everybody gets the good roles, characters, and, like, the parents are left with the scraps. So I went with the angry tree. Oh, okay. Yeah, the apples. That throws the apples. So I did this because I bought sponge, squeezable apples, and I could throw them at people I didn't know, strangers. So that was the fun. My wife's like, I know you're busy. I know you can't really go camping. I know you actually hate camping and all of that. And I'm like, how about I dress up as something where I can throw things at strangers? She's like, that's fine. So that's what I did. I've got videos of it. People are very alarmed when objects are thrown at them from people they don't know. You get at them? Yes. Don't know. I love the gears turning in their head. Once they get pelted by it, they realize what it was. It didn't hurt too much. They see me. Then they see, like, the Wizard of Oz, the tree.
2:36
Okay. I'm like, I see it. I have five trick-or-treaters. Really? Yeah. I only had one last year. I can't predict it. I've tried. I've had over 20 before. It's not like it goes down every year. It just varies. Did you get the full-size candy bars? I did. I had Kit Kat, Snickers, and Milky Ways full-size for all of them. Do their faces light up whenever they see the full-size? Yes. Except the first child, who was dressed as a princess, little princess. All right. She goes, and I hold down the candy bowl, because I like to empower them. I might like them to use what they will use to subject their parents to endless bouncing-off-the-wall trauma. And cavities. And I'm explaining. I'm like, I have Kit Kats, I have Snickers, and I have Milky Ways. And she looks at the ball and she goes, well, I used to like Kit Kats, but not anymore. Oh. And then she just takes about two more seconds and then grabs a Kit Kat and leaves. A more sophisticated palate. I guess. It's in your mind. Either in the two seconds her palate evolved or she hates Snickers and Milky Way even more, but wasn't going to leave that stoop empty-handed. Maybe she was altruistic and got it for her dad or something. Perhaps. That old bastard likes Kit Kat. Second group of kids, they took the candy, and their dad's nearby, and he's telling them one piece, one piece. And then there was like a little one that was still with the mom over by the sidewalk who could barely walk. And so one of them grabbed another piece and ran and handed it to her sister. And said, here you go. Oh, she could barely walk. Yes, she could barely make it. Now, I like to watch horror movies while I work the – The candy line. I guess. So – I don't know what was playing. And normally I watch a classic, like Halloween. That's one of your favorites. Rocky Horror. Sometimes I'll – I know that's not a horror, but it is deep. John Carpenter's a thing. Ooh, lovely. This time, I decided to watch a new movie that I had not seen, that Amazon had available for free for Prime, called Morbius.

Zach Minney @ ~01:10:00 — Articulates Stern's production speed advantage as key marketing differentiator vs. competitors with long lead times

  • “This game is not going to sell like Metallica did.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~01:14:00 — Suggests Walking Dead Remastered sales expectations below flagship Metallica remaster; tempering enthusiasm with market realism

  • “I don't think they want to do three different flavors of this game and three different play fields in particular... let's not waste our time too much.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~01:14:00 — Strategic insight into Stern's remaster playfield decision-making; Pro model exclusion driven by resource optimization

    • John Borg
    person
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Pinside Top 100organization
    AMC (network)company
    Spike 3 (system)product
    Tron (pinball)product
    Texas Pinball Festival (TPF)event
    Beetlejuiceproduct
    Jurassic Park Premiumproduct
    Jaws Premiumproduct
    Dungeons & Dragons Proproduct
    Chandler Riggsperson

    high · Zach: 'if it's my favorite game as it is right now, it's going to be better' but notes uncertainty about 'the style or look of the game'; Dennis wanted graphic novel approach but accepts AMC/TV show path

  • $

    market_signal: Stern producing massive volume in November: 500 LE + ~500 Premium Walking Dead Remastered units PLUS 4 other Premium titles (D&D, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Metallica) in single month = 1,000+ unit output

    high · Zach: 'In November, we're going to have... Dungeons & Dragons Premium, Jaws Premium, Jurassic Park Premium, Metallica Remastered Premium... That's 1,000 units right there. And then, like, four other titles'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern's production strategy for remasters excludes Pro model, focusing resources on Premium/LE tiers targeting hobbyist/collector market with higher margins

    high · Dennis: 'I think broadly that is probably the right move' and discussion of not wanting 'three different flavors of this game and three different play fields'

  • ?

    community_signal: Walking Dead original game had problematic 'redneck' call-outs that majority of players replaced with third-party audio packages; remaster call-out strategy unclear

    high · Both hosts agree nearly all players installed movie audio packages to replace original call-outs; Zach: 'I don't know anyone who owns the current version that didn't put in the movie audio package to fix it'

  • ?

    announcement: Stern officially announces Walking Dead Remastered with Premium/LE models, 500 LE units, Spike 3 system, mid-to-end November production window

    high · Zach: 'The Walking Dead Remastered we will talk about. They're going to build the LE mid-November here... and then the premiums towards the end of the month'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Walking Dead's community reputation has declined significantly; ranked 57th on Pinside Top 100 (down from 30s), despite being recognized as excellently designed and coded

    high · Dennis: 'This game is 57th on the top 100 at PennSci. 57th... that is a crying shame' and 'It's been falling'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Walking Dead Remastered is first remastered Stern game to use Spike 3 platform; Metallica remaster did not use Spike 3

    high · Zach: 'And it will be on the Spike 3 system... Metallica's not on the Spike 3 system. So, this is the first remastered Spike 3 system game'

    • 4:44
    Mistakes were made. Isn't that the Jared Leto? It's Morbentime. Yes, it's the Marvel, Sony, Jared Leto. Like, everything I would hate about something, it's like all, well, I mean, I normally like Marvel and Sony movies decent enough. But Jared hasn't impressed me since I saw his version of the Joker. But I was like, I wanted it to be so bad it's good. It's just boring. It's so boring. There's even like a cameo because, you know, it has to do with like bats and stuff. Michael Keaton's at the end of it. And I'm like, I didn't care. I was like, you go, dude. Get that paycheck.
    5:22
    It was terrible. Afterwards, it was so boring. I went ahead and watched the 1932 Frankenstein, which is way better. Way better as a film. That's a deep pick. And I had seen it before, but I hadn't seen it in years. I'd watched, I liked to, in October, watch those films as well, the horror films. I had never seen the very popular, now, Terrifier series. And Greg was my buddy from Straight Outta Middles. And I was like, you need to watch Terrifier. Don't hate it, you know, for what it, just realize what it is, you know. So it has become popular, but it was very low-rent kind of indie film kind of thing. I did also watch The Woman in the Yard, which I think was in theaters earlier this year. I loved the marketing materials, but I haven't seen it.
    6:09
    Third Act is a jumbled mess. So I can't recommend it. It was better than Morbius, but. Terrifier was terrifyingly bad. I don't know why he recommended it. It was horrible. Didn't get through it because I'm like, yeah, I could do a better film than this. Yeah, there was some alien thing. It's not the alien show. There's like an alien movie I wasn't familiar with. Amazon had it as well. And I saw the star rating was like only three or so. And I started it. And the dialogue and acting of that dialogue was so bad, I downvoted it in three minutes so that Amazon wouldn't tell me I hadn't finished it. That's when you double check to make sure it's not a porn because you're like, is this an acting show? It was like all that. It was just like, oh, we got to go get these plans. Kids, we're supposed to go camping. And he tied back to, we're supposed to go camping, Dad. And his kids look like they're about 30. But, Dad, we got to go camping. He's like, I just got to stop over at the satellite array and get these latest readings. I just need it for some night reading while at the tent. And I was just like, nope, I'm out. I'm here to fix a clogged drain. Anybody?
    7:18
    Over here. Oh, no. My cash. I don't have enough. Whatever shall I do? Oh, man. I'm so hungry for that pizza. Oh, you are hungry. I'll get it. So I was watching. Last night before I went to, I got in bed and was having a snack myself. And I was having trouble sleeping. And we'll get into pinball. Having trouble sleeping and I thought, you know, melatonin works and stuff. My CPAP works. But you know what the fix was? I just turned on the World Series and baseball. He's like, does the trick.
    7:59
    Training up to speak baseball? Nope, not for me. What a boring sport still. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. Sorry, Toronto. I agree with you. My dad watched baseball all the time growing up. And I just, I can watch it, but it's so long.
    8:16
    It's like watching figure skating. No, actually, it's like watching soccer. Oh. I loved playing soccer as a kid, but I didn't like watching it. Give me some booze and let me go to the matches or let me go to the baseball games. Love it. Give me four hot dogs and a couple beers, I'm good. But it's just not a sport for me to watch. It's not there.
    8:39
    Neither is pinball. No, that's fair, too. I watched less competitive pinball recently. I don't know why. But we need to jump into pinball. We do, or the listeners will complain.
    8:53
    It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. You know, now that Halloween's over. That's true. That's where my mind is at. So this is probably your biggest sales season. I know it's hard to say because new releases drive so much, but people like to buy pins for Christmas. Historically, yes. The fall into winter is a big – Q4 is usually a big sales time, and then usually Q1, 2-ish. Really? I'm surprised that like January, February, that's when car sales are dead. It's the March-y stuff, March-y. March, April. March, April, tax returns. Okay.
    9:34
    And then all the, it seems like March is when all the manufacturers want to try to launch a new title, and so we do get a lot of that. Yeah, get the game at TPF is why. And nobody launches better than Stern Pinball. They launch so much each and every year. We'll go through production updates first. Past couple of weeks, viewer Dungeons & Dragons Pro and Godzilla Premium. Believe it or not, the other day, I was almost late to our happy hour hangout, so I had to unload an entire truck of Godzilla Premium. You mentioned that. An entire truck. That game is how many years old? It's been 84 years. I think I asked on that happy hour. I'll ask it here, though, for the listeners. Do you think Godzilla has, across all models, sold over 15,000 units for Stern? That is a lot of games. It is a lot of games. I'm going to crunch some. What do you think while I'm crunching numbers? I think it may actually have hit 15,000. I think if they got up over 20 over Adams family, that Stern would break their usual rule and actually say how many they've sold. But I do think it's five figures, and I do think $15,000 at this stage with the black and white edition, you know, the LEs, the premiums, all the hype and demand that it had from the pandemic on, I think it may have done it. I'm going to say yes, I think so. I think so, too. Now, I don't know if it's hit 20.
    11:14
    We're getting up to that point. Without the operators like there used to be, I don't know if a game can hit 20 anymore. Obviously, hypothetically, it could. Practically speaking, I just don't know if it's really feasible anymore. Maybe, if they keep building it, maybe it'll eventually get its way there, especially if it continues to be seen as one of the top 10 games. I was trying to, the reason for those watching on video, I was trying to look into a calculator here and just roughly based on my market percentage of Stern games that are released, because I kind of roughly know it's weird, but I kind of roughly know what percentage of Stern sales I am. Does that make sense? I'm a little surprised that you do. I suppose I could see you proxying it based off of the number of LEs you're allocated. Correct. So that's kind of in accordance with what we get pro premiums based on how much we buy. It's reasonable now. Kind of a roughish little thing, so I was trying to base it on that. And those numbers kind of line up a little bit. So I would say 15,000 is a good guess, absolutely. Okay. But, yeah, needless to say, they are still selling those. So they're building more and you're unloading more. unloading a lot more. November, we knew that this month, viewers are going to be just a lot of games that Stern can build. The recently announced Walking Dead Remastered we will talk about. They're going to build the LE mid-November here, so here in a couple weeks, and then the premiums towards the end of the month, which is amazing. In addition to that, they're also in November building Dungeons & Dragons Premium, Jaws Premium, Jurassic Park Premium, Metallica Remastered Premium. It's just amazing to see in one month what they're producing. Because we know that they're going to make all of the Walking Dead. That's 500 units. We know that they're going to make a hefty amount of those premiums, which is going to be probably 500, at least 500 units. That's 1,000 units right there. And then, like, four other titles.
    13:24
    That's insane. I don't know how anybody keeps up with that. Yeah, I think a lot of people could lose sight. I lose sight because I haven't gone on any of the factory tours. Just how much Stern can actually output versus all the other manufacturers, just their actual build capacity is just significantly more significant. It is intense. So, you know, the talk right now in the hobby community is like the rise of the boutiques. And even though they're not – Winchester sold 525. Yeah, Beetlejuice and all this stuff. But we've got to put things into perspective We really do Come December, we're going to have Jurassic Park Pros being made Jaws Pros And then the Jaws 50th anniversary, that final run They're making a ton of those And then we're into January The first cornerstone of the year Which is, you know, the rumor is either Transformers Or Pokemon Or Fallout We don't know Let's jump into Sturm Pinball announcing The Walking Dead Remastered. Right. Now, what did we get last year? We got a remastered iteration. The first to come was Metallica. Very popular. Ellie sold out pretty immediately. They've sold a lot of premiums. We still sell at Flippin' Out Pinball, my distribution company. We still sell a lot, pretty frequently, Metallica premiums. So The Walking Dead, a title that everybody kind of knew about was coming. People still wondered why in the lineup of releases why this would come now. Kind of a license that is a little stale in media or in pop culture. It was hot in the past. But in pinball, it's known as one of the greatest games, one of the best coded games, Lyman Sheets game and a John Borg design. We did get a teaser trailer, and it showed, like, an animation of the extra ball sequence from the original game. When you seen that, what were your thoughts?
    15:37
    It's one of the more iconic scenes, but I was really disappointed with the teaser. Okay. So I really like Walking Dead a lot. But if it's really just going to be like a home-based, and by home-based I mean in-house, I should have said in-house, a certain in-house animation effort to take dots and basically just high-resify them into these new custom clips, and seeing the way that one looked, I wasn't particularly wowed by it. Like, it didn't feel like it was like a J.J.P. animation level. and that's really all I saw so I guess while I'm not surprised in a way because I'm not really expecting the TV show to be the art package now I keep telling myself they've got to be doing the graphic novels it's been so long since the TV show but the desire for clips from the show would have been an obvious thing to do with a remaster and this didn't make me think it's got those. And it might have them, but the animation was custom. And that's really all you see. So I have no sense of the art's better. I can't imagine the art being worse. It's one of the least attractive art packages of the era. But I was underwhelmed. Maybe that's a good way to put it. I was just underwhelmed by what they chose to use to show that it was coming out. I agree with you on a lot of that. So we'll talk about teasers and stuff as we talk about spooky pinball. But I've been a part of the whole teaser process, and it's very difficult, very tricky. I still want to say that I don't know from a sales perspective. I don't know if I still understand teasers. I don't know what they're good for personally. I think that a lot of people do teaser as either defense at a company for sales or they do them because they're hobbyists and they get excited and they just want to kind of trickle spoon feed people. I don't know what it does per se because teasers usually don't show anything. Or you've got to decide what you're wanting to tease. So for The Walking Dead, it was a strange choice, I will say. It's extremely odd. And, again, we're not surprised because we've been hearing about this rumor forever. And you and I both, as we've said multiple times, we both really like The Walking Dead. We both have Walking Dead. Arguably my favorite game, Skills. You know, it's a game where it's super hard, which is always one of the things I really liked about it. It's got such a unique layout. And Lyman's rule set on it got to where he finalized it, made it a really enjoyable game that had you shooting all over the play field to accomplish a variety of things. Skillshot still sucks, but okay. Skillshot, some of that kind of had to do with the geometry, I think. But it was interesting to try and time it, you know, to properly plunge and hit what you needed to hit. Here's the thing.
    18:44
    While I do know a lot of competitive players who love Walking Dead, like, broadly speaking, while it's a much more respected title than when it came out, when it launched, it had a rough launch. Oh, it was a flop. And today, and I think we can blame some of this but not all of it on the fact that a lot of people who played the earlier versions rated it. This game is 57th on the top 100 at PennSci. 57th. Yeah, that is a crying shame. And it used to be in the 30s, if I remember. It's been falling. This is, so based off of, you know, reviews of stuff, when you think about a game like Metallica, which was up in the top 10 and the remastered's at 8, and where is the, I'm looking at the list right now, where is non-remastered Metallica at? That's 22. too. So, like, I still wonder why you don't, you know, do, I still think Tron was the better answer. It's still a Borg-designed game. Like, if they're choosing games where the designers are still there, that's still Borg-designed. It's still, you know, okay, it doesn't have the Lyman rules, but the movie just came out. Yes, I heard it's a terrible movie, but it's timely.
    19:57
    What's new about Walking Dead? Nothing. As you mentioned, it's a bit dated. So, So very odd choice. And Tron was beloved. A lot of people loved the music in it, and a lot of people loved the toys, and they loved the light effects. I thought Lyman worked on Tron. Maybe he did. I mean, let me click. Let me click on Pinside. I might be misremembering. I thought maybe it was Lonnie. I thought Lonnie had his hands in it as well. It's both, Lonnie and Lyman. All right. I'm personally, selfishly, I'd much rather have a Walking Dead than a Tron. So I'm very happy that it's the Walking Dead. I understand that. Sales-wise, I think Tron may have done better. Having said that, I think this offers the opportunity for the Walking Dead finally to reach where it belongs, which is absolutely in the top 10 on Pennside Top 100. At minimum, top 20. At minimum. There's some disgraces in the top 20. So it definitely belongs there. Back to the teaser. Go ahead. I was just going to ask, do you think, and maybe this is more for later on our discussion about it, do you think, though, that it's going to, I guess, penetrate to pinball audiences well enough that it's going to, like a lot of people are going to change their mind? Like are people going to encounter this new version? Now, if I was an operator, I wouldn't buy Walking Dead because there's nothing about the license that makes me think this is a good choice. Well, and there's not a pro model. And there's not a pro model. He's remastered two models. So the volume getting out there is going to be less. Not to mention, and we could get to this on about the, having played, I have a ton of time on the LE and the pro. There are some arguments that the pro geometry was better than the premium and LE. Sure. I prefer the pro. And I haven't seen the layout yet, but I'm sure these versions will be much more respectful to the premium and LE with the lifting ramp for the bicycle girl. Crossbow. And the crossbow. The second magnet on the well walker.
    22:01
    Yeah, quite possibly. When it comes to teasers, to conclude on that discussion, I think that it's tricky because a lot of these companies are spending a ton of money on assets for the game. Video assets, audio assets, call outs, whatever it may be. And a lot of people don't realize, viewer, that using those assets and marketing materials for a trailer, they actually a lot of times cost money as well. Like you have to relicense the use of a video, the use of a song, the use of a call out. You have to relicense that for the marketing material for a trailer. and then if you're talking about doing a teaser trailer, you would have to then pay an additional fee to use it for a teaser trailer. So I understand that if they do have the video assets or the audio assets or anything, maybe they don't use it for a teaser trailer. Maybe they splurge to use it on a trailer. That's why if you watch the Stern teaser or the Stern regular trailers, A lot of times you will not hear the audio, the John Williams Star Wars. You will not hear that you'll hear something in that universe, but not that, because it's just a silly way to spend money unless you really are looking for it. The trailer should be able to do enough with just the product itself, but, boy, it really conveys so much the story of a product in a new game when you can use the assets. I will tell you from experience as a producer, as some of them. But I didn't expect The Walking Dead to have any of the video assets, the teaser anyway. But I think if they could have done maybe a call-out, Carl, or something like that, it would have been great, and just the logo. If you've got to do a teaser, you don't have – I didn't like the animation just because I don't think maybe that was the best choice of animation for the purpose of the teaser. I totally understand your point about the licensing stuff, and I wouldn't make a decision about a game off of a teaser anyway, one way or the other. Because, again, it is what it is. It's a teaser. However, like, why not – here's what my suggestion would have been. Why not show a close-up of one of the new versions of the twice? Like, they did that with – wasn't it X-Men where they showed a – and it was like, that's something that you could get excited about. Like, holy crap, the Well Walker looks so much better, or the barn looks so much better. now. I just think that would have gotten more excitement, not an iconic dot thing turned into some sort of 3D animated image instead. Yeah, it's iconic from people who know the game, but nobody cares. Yeah, it's very tough. I think every release is different, too. I think that if you know if your cards are really good, I don't think you need much in a teaser. If you're trying to boost something you think may not be as strong a seller or the potential for it not to be, then maybe you build a little hype that way. It's really tough to know. Why do a teaser for this game at all?
    25:17
    Odd the timing. They generally would do it on a Friday, and then come the following Tuesday, they would do a game reveal. In which case, November 4th does fall on a Tuesday. That's when this game is launching, viewer, at 11 AM Central, but they did the teaser like a week before. It wasn't on Friday. Friday would have been Halloween. Maybe they didn't want it to get lost in the Halloween hustle and bustle. So we got it on, what, a Wednesday or something?
    25:47
    Yeah, and that's interesting. So two models, premium and limited edition, similar to what they did on Metallica. 500 units of the LE. No price increase, so that's nice. And it will be on the Spike 3 system. does notice as well that's not Metallica's not on the Spike 3 system. So, this is the first remastered Spike 3 system game. We do not yet know who's going to be remastering the code. We don't know who's going to be remastering the art. We don't even know the style or look of the game. Now, you said, Dennis, that you'd have liked the graphic novel. I don't think we're getting that because it is an AMC property. That's what they're presenting it as already. So AMC is going to be the television series. I think that will hurt sales.
    26:38
    No, I disagree. I think it will help sales. So maybe it balances out and it's a non-movement. I mean, it's interesting. Again, as good as the game is, excellent game,
    26:51
    nobody has The Walking Dead in their top ten TV shows of all time. It's just not that good of a show. I may. You didn't finish it.
    27:00
    And that shows. That shows. And I don't think that's fair. If you're going to put a show in the top ten, that's like saying Dexter's in the top ten and saying, but we have to ignore season five. No, that's like poo-pooing Jaws, you know, because you have to take into consideration Jaws 4. No, Jaws is Jaws. That would be the Jaws franchise. Are we rating the Jaws franchise or the Jaws movie? yeah I mean I'm saying The Walking Dead is one of the greatest series of all time for me it is it probably is a top ten the first four to five seasons are fantastic and then somehow it was so great you didn't finish it amazing because it got drawn out long in the tooth there for a while like season ten whatever the last season was I was halfway through the last season and you had to buy it on AMC plus No, I'm good.
    27:54
    For me, it was. For me, it's right up there. So we don't know the looks and style of the game. The animation kind of made it look almost illustrating. You know what I mean? It wasn't going for. So that's what shocked me. I was like, oh, that's an interesting style. A style I'm going to like if that's what it's going to be. but not one I thought they'd go with. So, okay. Interesting. We do not yet know, Dennis, if they're going to recast myself to remaster the Redneck call-outs from the original game that everybody just loves so much. Do you think we're going to get Redneck again?
    28:37
    I think they'll change it. I'm going to guess. People hated it. They did. That's why I feel like they have to. Like, it's like the one thing where a lot, like, if nothing else, I was just like, I don't know. If you couldn't get behind the new code changes and stuff, it's the one thing that might get people to still sell the old one out would be just. But I don't know anyone who, well, maybe you do. I don't know anyone who owns the current version that didn't put in the movie audio package to fix it. Yeah, and got rid of a lot of those call outs. Because that one's got some real fun. And you do still have the call outs. Use a walker bomb. I remember. Yeah. It's so horrible. It's so bad. and offensive to the redneck that I am.
    29:25
    It's going to be a bloodbath. I could do those. You could. I don't know. I guess we'll find out soon if you redid them or not. I bet they're redone. What I was trying to figure out is, if you're right, and it's a good point, if AMC is The Walking Dead, then it would be the show. Whether they hired an actor from the show to do the call because honestly one of them should be pretty Get Coral Coral Was that kid even acting anymore Get him to. Chandler Riggs? I think that's his name. If I got that right, my poor, stupid brain uses neurons for that. Oh.
    30:07
    What was the song? The Coral song? I don't remember a Coral song. Yeah. Coral Papa. That's right. Okay Where else do we go on this Style, looks of the game, code, art I think people are going to be very pleasantly Surprised about this game I think it's coming in As a dark horse And it's going to sell out very quickly To Ellie Because If it's my favorite game as it is right now It's going to be better This is going to be fantastic This is why we said on the last episode you were kind of puzzled when I said this is kind of the one I'm looking most forward to.
    30:53
    Because it will forever be in my collection. Yeah, I get it from your fondness of the game perspective.
    31:03
    And it's 500 units. Like, what Stern 500 units doesn't sell out? Like, this is Spike 3, 500 units. Spike 3 doesn't matter. That's not why it's going to sell out. Okay, that's fair. But, yeah, I'm pumped for this release. And the other good selling point, if you want one, you can have one in, like, two or three weeks.
    31:23
    That's a waiting year. That's what helps sell Stern Games. You can play it now. Like, whenever you have hype and you're buying into a game, part of your brain still says, when am I going to get it? I know because I get the e-mails every day and the texts. But this one, you don't really have to worry about that. Not only am I excited about it, but my excitement goes up another level when I know that I'll be playing it very soon in my house. So Stern has that going for him, and I don't know if anybody else is going to catch up to that for a long time.
    31:59
    Let's get some talking points here. Do you think it's a bad move for them not to make a pro model? I think it would have helped on this one, but I get the idea of not doing the pros for the remasters, and I think broadly that is probably the right move. So I'm not going to – so I'll say no, it's not a bad move. I think I personally would have preferred seeing a pro on this because having spent so much time on both, I think – the one thing would be I would want the walker bombs. That was the only thing I ever missed about the pro model, but I thought the pro was geometrically superior.
    32:36
    And some of that had to do with the mechs, but they might have improved those mechs, I'm assuming they have, in the remaster. So some of those issues, I don't know, like the crossbow. I didn't know anyone who liked the crossbow. It was just like, anyway. It was kind of cool, but it was problematic at times. So I'm just saying, no, it's not a bad move. This is fine. Especially, I don't think they want to do three different flavors of this game and three different play fields in particular, or two different play fields in particular. This game is not going to sell like Metallica did. So especially here, let's not waste our time too much. That's true. That's true, and I do not think it's a bad move either. I think it even lends itself more towards a good move. I like that it sets itself apart a bit closer to that of a studio release, is what they call those with, like, Elvira's House of Horrors and such, where it didn't have a pro model either. I think this makes a lot of sense just to do a premium and an LE model because you know that, I mean, theoretically, you kind of know that you're going to be limited on re-releasing another game in general. So why not just focus on the ones that make you the most money and the ones that the hobbyists who are going to get behind this move more than anything? Those are the models that they, you know, purchase quicker than the pro model anyway. That's a very good point. Do you think this release and this title, this product, will be considered a success once it's all said and done? Yeah. But I am assuming that Stern has very modest expectations for this.
    34:09
    I do, too. I think it's going to be a success because we're going to have 500 units of the LE, and I would think by the end of the year we'll have 500 units of the premium. Well, actually, for Stern's sake, they will sell 500 units on day one to the dealer. So, yeah, that's 1,000 units on one launch release with a possible tail into 2026 and 2027. so maybe that makes viewers at least think whenever they're thinking to themselves, why in hell would they ever do this? Nobody wants this game well, it's 1 to 2,000 pretty much guaranteed units moved, that's not a main cornerstone of R&D that you've kind of already got the layout and you can throw a junior coder to lead, that's their resume May Builder, that's their audition for a future lead on a Cornerstone game, like they did with Ray Day. Now we see him running his own coding.
    35:14
    Yeah, I think it's a good farm system. You can do that with the art, too. I think this is smart in a lot of ways, and I hope they continue doing it. Would I have loved seeing a Ghostbusters right now? Damn straight, I would have loved to have seen that. A lot of people would have loved to have seen Tron, and there's a lot of other titles, and we'll get to those, but for now. And then will the LEs sell out? I said yes very quickly within the first week, I think. I see the potential for it selling out within the first day of the LEs. Potential. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but based on what I kind of have been hearing, it very potentially could be sold. Stern will sell them out first day to dealers, but I think even dealers will have them sold very quickly.
    36:00
    What do you think? Eventually. I don't know. I would say no on the first day. 500 is a pretty low count, but I think this game is mostly going to appeal to those that have, I'm going to use the word, bolted the original version and would like to upgrade. I think that's where your market is here, and I think that's easy 1,000-plus units total, and the LE will probably be attractive to a lot of those folks for the reasons you've already outlined. So I think in the first week, yes. I don't think in the first day. It's just, again, this is a – in some ways, this is a great year to launch a remaster of The Walking Dead because I think you could argue from a potential sales perspective it is a weaker choice, but this has been a very saturated year, and there are people that are now going to be looking and maybe they've already ordered a Winchester. Maybe they're trying to or have ordered a Beetlejuice. All of this new stuff is in competition with a game that they already know the layout to. So that's always the lodestone of a remaster is you already know what this game is. Yes, there will be some new rules, but the geometry is the geometry. we're going to assume that the same old modes are still in it also. So it's not a wholly new cornerstone experience, and there's been so many cornerstone experiences this year. That's its real competition. I don't think this game has long legs. I don't think they build it for two years. I think they'll be done in under two.
    37:36
    I think if they didn't touch code, maybe. but with them taking arguably the greatest rules and code in the history of this hobby and adding to that and an LCD screen with assets,
    37:55
    I think it may fill the next two years of pretty good sales. I'm wrong a lot, Zach. I don't know the animations enough to really keep it like giving it a long tail I don't think they're going to be that amazing of animations versus what we've already seen out of the Stern Studios it's not like we're getting to the next level here movie clips and stuff again it's such a dated show I don't know it's got it's core group there are a lot of people that don't think this is Lyman's best game they favor some of his other rule sets I'd love to know who they are because I'm just wrong and then there's some that I know that love his rule set for this game that they never got into Borg's geometry on it very underrated geometry I really like this I think so but it's just you either my favorite shots in pinball or you don't and unlike Metallica which the DMDs were tricky to get and they commanded I think a pretty hefty premium I don't know you're the market trend expert Walking Dead's are everywhere and they're cheap it's not, it's a very easy game to get a DMD version of and so clearly a lot of people have not felt it's a keeper and I, you know. We're going to get accessories? Maybe we get that topper, get a head topper? Oh, I love it. That's a pretty good topper. I like the fish tank topper. Yeah, the head is in the fish tank. That was very cool. The guns. Oh, man. And what do you think they expand if they are doing AMC? We don't even know if they're using film clips or the series clips, but if they are, do they expand into other seasons? Remember the first one was only seasons one through two, three? Maybe three. Hard to say. Toy-wise, everything's from the first couple, I think. Yeah. Farm season two, I think the Well Walker season two, Bicycle Girls season one, I believe. Prison was two or three. Yeah, it's all around the third season. Before Governor. That's my thing. Or before Negan. Before Negan. The movie, the unofficial movie audio package has thrown in Negan quotes because he's far more quotable than Governor is. Yeah. How many times do you hear that when you're probably, damn, I love Negan. That was such a, the turning point of that series in a good and bad way, but that was really good. Okay. We'll talk more about that later on Later on this episode There are new accessories Speaking of accessories We did get from Stern Pinball Godzilla Expression Topper Game Plate Remember these Expression Toppers, viewer Like the little light bar that interacts now And you get the little plate that you can put on there And change them out and stuff So we do have that now for Godzilla And for Deadpool So if you don't like the alternate ones Save some money and get these and lighting effects will still interact with your game. Oh, and I should say that an individual won a refund on there. They bought a Star Wars this last week, Expression Topper and such, and they were like, it doesn't work with the new game. I'm like, oh, it's probably just not coded in it, but, yeah. So we had to refund them. We got new code, Dennis' favorite. First, can I just say that I love that Stern Pinball is now naming their code updates It's kind of like podcasters name their episodes. It's nice. Nicely done. So good. Like Star Wars, this update, because this is always bored by this, but they're adding a little razzle-dazzle. This is .86, but not just that. The name of this code update is Not a Jedi Yet.
    41:42
    Yeah. And in this code update, you're going to get things like Not a Jedi Yet, phased mini wizard mode, single ball. That's really cool. You get a new dark side multi-ball, new super mows are added, extra balls are added, storm trooper hurried up. There's like a list, new videos, new audios. Ray Day heard our episode, I believe, and he was like, he doesn't listen. He's too busy working on this code. It's up to you, Ray Day. Don't fuck it up. Oh, yes. I forgot. Remember that? I think maybe we did put a little more pressure on him than we should have. A lot of pressure on him. And then, boom, here he comes with this big-ass code update. So much so that that's what our club members have been talking about, how great just this single update has gotten to this game. And we're at only 0.86. So don't let off the gas yet, Ray. Nicely done. This is what we're talking about. But more coffee and caffeine. We've got to keep you up, buddy. We've got to keep you up. Keep it going. There's a list of additional features for this new code update. Also, King Kong v. .89, they're calling Crash the Gate code update. And Crash the Gate is a new mini-wizard mode that is locked until you play all five island scenes. Very cool. A couple big stories this week, Dennis. This is one of them. We talked about The Walking Dead Remastered. But Spooky Pinball, in the last week or so, officially announcing Beetlejuice as their next game title. They also launched a teaser trailer. This happened October 26th, leading up to Halloween. Everybody was like, are we going to get some kind of teaser leading up to Halloween? Yes, we did, in a huge way. Not only did we get the game title, we got a teaser that showcased a little sneak peek as to what the game was going to look and sound like, if you will. But they did also indicate the game is going to be released on November 14th formally So you're going to be able to see the entirety of what this game is So it's been the rumor title for quite some time And then there's going to be 999 units of this game It's going to be $9,999 Under $10,000, fully loaded Hard to say that this isn't the best value in pinball Hard to say But a lot of add-ons too So that $10,000 is still a $2,000 non-refundable deposit The topper There's going to be a topper that's included in that $10,000 I've got to be careful what I say It's a good topper That's included It's a good topper What was the last game? Evil Dead? That was a good free topper too I don't even remember the free one on Evil Dead It was like Cheryl, but just like the 2D plastic of Cheryl. The add-on topper was so memorable, though. So good.
    44:45
    That's kind of how this is going to be, just the topper on this one again. Well, I'm not surprised, given how well it did for Evil Dead, that they would do it again. It's so good. Like, if you like the Cheryl topper, then here you go. This is so good. The topper this time is going to be $1,599, and it will have a $600 nonrefundable deposit. Will it be one of those sand wafers? Worms. It very well could be. It could be. The worms. Look, it's the sandworm thing this year. We had dune in the sandworm. Now we have sandworm dune kind of stuff going on in Beetlejuice. Butter Cabinet, $15.99. A $600 non-refundable deposit attached to that as well. They're also going to be offering ghost glass for those of you interested in that. It's that non-reflective glass. there was a very high conversion percentage of people that got Ghost Glass on Evil Dead. I just like how everyone calls it something different. I know. Voodoo Glass, Ghost Glass. Invisiglass. Yeah, Invisiglass.
    45:47
    And then this time around, they're doing something interesting. They're doing custom plaques. For $125, you can have them put something custom lettering, like a vanity plate. How big is it? Eh, that big. Like four inches? I was hoping for some dimensions, not the, ah, it's like this. Which, depending on how close to the camera, makes it look. I'm guessing a four by two and a half inch. I guess maybe a better question from me would have been, how much text can you put on it? It's going to be a limited character number, but I think it's more than the vanity plate of, what, eight or something. Okay. I think they can make the font smaller, probably. I just wondered if it was, like, big enough to, like, put a quote from the movie on it or something. Oh. I told them this was a bad idea. No, no, no. There's good potential. It's just, like, if I wanted it to say Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice on three different lines, like, can I do that? Or is it not, like, big enough? That's all I was wondering. I think they're so precious over at Street and Pinball. And they're so, they just, they want to please. They care about the community. Like, it's bad when I, as a hobbyist, am even like, I wouldn't do that. Like, that's too much. They don't have time to do all this work. Could you imagine, Dennis, how horrible a job it's going to be for Morgan to have to, or Squirrel, to have to make sure that the inscription is just as the person wanted? That should have been capitalized. There should have been a space there. I spell my name with a K, not an H. Like, oh, this sounds horrible.
    47:31
    125 is just not worth it to me if I'm them. You're going to get the number you get, and that's it. Jeez. Oh, so is it just numbers? No.
    47:44
    Now everyone can have game number one. Yeah, right. Game number 755 under it, game number one. Yeah, I just want it to be pound signed one. I bet that'll fit, no matter what the size is. So I just, I don't, God bless them. This is a standard body three flipper game.
    48:06
    I'm going back to this custom plaque. I'm going to have all these customers wanting, this is what I want. I'm going to have to deal with this shit too.
    48:19
    I'm just so tired. The truth comes out. You don't want to have to deal with the custom plate order part of the submission.
    48:27
    All about you. They don't really do custom numbers there because they all are in sequence. They do now. Pound side one.
    48:35
    Mine does have pound side one on it, bug. I'm going to put 1.5. How do you get a custom number when they do them in sequence? Can I have it say V0.86, not a Jedi yet?
    48:51
    That's my plaque. I want that. That's my plaque. In honor of Ray Day's efforts. Okay. I'm sorry. I think this is a great idea, and that they should do more plaques and charge more for bigger ones. For bigger ones? I like you can get the deluxe plaque. Yeah, I want a chonker one. It covers up the speed hurts or something. Oh, man. The teaser trailer, if we're talking about that, we talked about the Walking Dead one. This showed a silhouette of a game, back glass art, lighting, a new feature they're calling spooky speak that we'll talk about. So this teaser, there's all different types of teasers. This one was more kind of what you were talking about, Dennis, where it kind of showed a little something, but it didn't show a lot of anything.
    49:42
    And for those viewers, I will say I'm a bit biased here because I did produce that video. Straight down the middle did. That was part of that. So be gentle.
    49:52
    I think it worked. I'm already giving Zach my feedback on it. Yeah, I think a lot of people really liked it, and it's easy to get behind something if you like the title and stuff. So that was helpful.
    50:04
    But, yeah, it was a person walking up to the game saying Beetlejuice. The game reacting almost it looked as if it was lighting up. The person saying Beetlejuice again, and it lit up again. And then the third time, like the movie, you said Beetlejuice, it comes alive.
    50:23
    That's pretty cool. I like how your description of it was longer than the trailer. Yeah. Not longer than the editing of it, though. The back glass.
    50:35
    That's kind of where we think Christopher is mocked up. At least it teased something meaningful. Like if Walking Dead had teased the new back glass, So there would have been something, I think, more to get excited about. Some of the lighting. We had people zooming in, doing frame by frames as I knew they would. So it was very... Y'all ain't going to fool me. I knew what y'all were going to do. They're trying to get that girl to move out of the way. Tell her to move. Why would you move?
    51:01
    Talk to the game over in the corner. Did you see the comments section on YouTube? No, I didn't. Plenty of blonde. Don't read the comments on YouTube ever. Never read the comments.
    51:11
    Oh, she's fit out. Why is she so tall? God, what is wrong with her? I did get a lot of people saying they thought it was a wide body at first from that teaser. Really? Yeah. I wouldn't have thought one way or another from it. Yeah. So, but no, it is a standard body. Okay. Spooky speak. Yeah. It's like a speaking smell that goes. I really got to be careful here. Yeah, be careful. What did that, what are people talking about, spooky speak? Basically, you say the, say Beetlejuice, and the game comes on.
    51:50
    Basically, I think. That's what the teaser implied to me. When I saw it, I was like, oh, I can say Beetlejuice three times and start a game? That's what I was suspicious of. And then the logo says, like, voice activated, voice interactive pinball. I will be curious to see if and how it is used in the game. Because I could see, like, while playing the game, maybe wanting to do things like, oh, it's time to summon Beetlejuice. Instead of hitting an action button, you could say his name three times. It's the equivalent of how back when Star Trek came out with CERN and people needed to launch photon torpedoes and they had balls trapped on the flippers, they would use their chin. Oh, that's right. Yep. Chin attack.
    52:35
    Yeah. Or couldn't it be like, if I was playing Walking Dead and if I had spooky speak, I could be like, activate walker bomb. Yeah. Yeah, then we could have had a walker bomb on the pro. But instead they were all like, no, you need to buy a better version. I'd be like, no, I'm not going to do it. I can see flipper code stuff. I hope it's not just starting up the game because, like, other than, like, to impress your friends one time, everyone's going to just want to push the button and be faster eventually. And everybody was like, well, it's not going to work in a lab. It's not going to. Of course, guys. Like, it's a. This is for home use only. It's a feature. It's okay. And I'm sure, like, it's, I envision it as being an either or. Push the action button or say his name sort of thing. That's, you know. What if you walk up and you don't know his name? You know what? I imagine that there will be a voice narration that will say, say Beatles use. It just on the screen says everything. It says say my name three times. Maybe you can go up and say, what's your name?
    53:40
    And maybe it will interact with you. I hope he doesn't lie. Do you think I could have it say, tell me what my custom plaque says, and it will then say what my custom plaque says? They really are excited about this feature, and they're going to continually work on it, not only on this title, but you may, I don't think I'm saying too much.
    54:00
    This is a patent pennant. You're going to see this on future games going forward with Spooky. Maybe even previous games.
    54:10
    There's a lot of things that you can do with voice activation. If you really sit and think about all the cool little things that you, not only utilities that you can use it for, but like just fun things too. and coding wise probably not that significant of coding as compared to like animation or UI or anything like that I mean you're doing basic algorithm if you hear this output this if you it's not like a decision tree I wouldn't think do their games all have mics in them though? sounds like a product you'd have to buy sounds like an accessory to me Yeah Mics aren't expensive Okay Well we haven't seen their price for the spooky mic That's right Non-refundable deposit I'm sure Maybe it's built into something too I'm going to shut up Okay Oh the game said to be sold out everywhere Yeah I heard that Kind of We talked about this on our Happy hour hangout and I'll try not to bore you with it in us, but the listeners may want to hear it. We've already talked about kind of the mess of how this has been rolled out. You've got a dealer saying, oh, I'm taking orders before it's even announced what it is and all that. That was a mess we talked about last episode. The hits kept coming between then and now. Then another dealer jumped in and was like, here's the translate. I'm taking orders now too. And at that point, all the dealers did know what our allocations were. So then, boy, a lot of them dealers just hit the ground running. And they were like, if I've got this many, I'm going to go ahead and jump the line and sell that many. So you've seen the floodgates kind of opened up. And then I guess maybe that's what prompted Spooky to launch a teaser three weeks before their reveal of a game. It felt pretty early. That's a lot of time in between.
    56:24
    But here we were complaining. I was kind of poking them last episode saying, you didn't need to do that. Winchester was coming. Come on. I think I even trended them down. I'm sorry. Yeah, I was probably nicer than you about that. Oh, wait, no, I wasn't. Well, maybe in retrospect, maybe they're like, okay, well, we would like to tease this game formally, but the minute we tease after something, you guys are going to bitch and moan again that we were trying to take the steam out of the water.
    57:01
    So maybe they're like, let's just get in front of this so we don't have to. Did they? And then after they dropped the teaser, did they go and they punish those distributors that broke their rules? Maybe it's another rule that was broken I don't know where they stand on it They clearly know how I feel They even did reach out I don't think they'd care One of my friends, they reached out and said Hey, just wanted to let you know Great podcast and great episode And heard you loud and clear And what you said landed So, yeah They didn't say thank you Heard what you had to say But no, I don't think anybody was punished.
    57:47
    So I think that they didn't care. They know if they think that is advantageous for them moving forward, they'll allow it. If they don't, then they won't, I believe. Well, I mean, based off of the reaction, again, I get it. It's Beetlejuice, right? I mean, it's a huge theme.
    58:04
    Maybe they don't need trailers. Maybe they don't need any of this. If it's just maybe plant the leaks and use word of mouth and the promo. Oh, used to be a lot of people do. Maybe a lot of them do.
    58:17
    I said the majority of dealers already had their allocations spoken for and paid for from customers sight unseen. This is something we are not used to in this hobby. Not for a long time, I would say. It used to be more common than it is now. And I say those were not good times. I don't think it was. I think long-time listeners know. I have some pretty strong opinions about that. I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of committing to things that you haven't seen, especially with non-refundable deposits. It's just, I mean, shouldn't you know what you're buying? I think so. Even if you haven't played it. Like, I understand that not everyone agrees with me about that. But, I mean, at least know what the layout looks like. I mean, know something. I would think so. I don't, as a seller, I wouldn't feel great about taking people's money before they know what they're buying.
    59:16
    And part of that's just principle. But another part of it's just business management. I don't want to have to return people's deposits or tell them, no, it's nonrefundable and fight. I don't want, we're just there. I don't want the money. What do I need the money for in my account? It's not doing anything. Like I responsible for when it like somebody standing here holding my purse and saying I don want to hold I don want to be responsible for that So I don like it I guess other dealers do because they can lock in those sales I think the product can speak for itself.
    59:51
    If I trust the product and I'm looking forward to the product and I know it's going to be good and the game is going to be good, then I don't need to jump the gun. But a lot of them did.
    60:04
    There's probably some dealers that didn't. I know for myself flipping out pinball, we did not. I went through my allocation, my number. This is how it works. Sausage people, buckle up. We got a number that we were going to receive as an allocation. We have a long list that way well exceeds that number of people. So we contacted how many people we knew for sure we were going to have a guaranteed spot. Hey, when this comes out November 14th, you do have a guaranteed spot. Then I have some terms, of course, like once you do pay the deposit, it is not refundable. So keep that in mind. You can't change it to another product. Keep that in mind.
    60:43
    Don't ask. Don't beg. Like, you know what you're getting yourself into. Please consider that before paying. And then also, my terms were whenever this game is released, you don't have to, like, I want you to consume the trailer or the feature, whatever it is, and then let me know if this is something you want. I gave 30 minutes, said, hey, 30 minutes, I need to know within 30 minutes because there's an angry mob at the door ready to bust down to get their turbo man. So I'd like to sell them a turbo man. And you've got one of my turbo mans. So if you don't want it, I'd like to make the sale. Remember, I could have taken all of our allocation people's money immediately. Boom, done. I envy those dealers because they don't have to work anymore. Like, they're done. there's nothing else. Their spots are filled, and come launch day, they just sit back and chill. I'm still working, like, answering people, well, we've got an interested list, but at this time, all of our guaranteed spots are filled. Why don't you just do it like the rest of them?
    61:48
    I allowed it. I didn't. In my terms, I said, if you were dead set on paying, we're telling you not to. You don't have to. Wait to see the product first. But if you want to pay, know that it's non-refundable stuff, you can pay. Here's an invoice. That way when you do see it, when it comes out, I don't have to then send you – you've already got the invoice. And then you see it, you decide, let me know either way. And then if you don't, I'm going to have to message you and say you're in or out.
    62:15
    And then they can decide. But I have to keep an interested list going because out of the however many I'm getting, no matter how great the game is, a lot of people are just fucking talky-talky-talk. They're all talking no walk, Dennis, if you know what I mean. They like to kick, but the only thing they like to kick are tires.
    62:34
    Yes. Yeah. They got some tire kickers. But they always have the dance. I need to write down, every time we have a release, I need to write down the excuses. They're my favorite to go over. You know, I'm taking a stand. I didn't like that they didn't use this actress as a blah, blah, blah. Or, you know what? My wife said it didn't have this. that we can't. It's always the wife's fault. I always feel bad. Those poor wives just get the blame of everything. Oh, you know what? I already filled up my game room with a different game last week. It's just, it's great. Us hobbyists will find any excuse that we can to be in or out of a game. But if they don't take it, there's always going to be a number of people that don't take it. So then I want a list still so that I can start working down that list and I didn't lose all those customers. That's a lot of work. A lot of work. And then people are like, what about the accessories? Is that part of it? That's coming. So a lot of dealers are done. There are a couple dealers probably like myself that technically aren't sold out. So I can't say I'm sold out. I can say that whenever new people ask, hey, can I go on the interest list, I tell them, like, happy to put you on it. But honestly, the odds are very, very slim that it would go down to that point. So find it elsewhere if you can because it's gone. And then Spooky's going to be selling some direct, Dennis.
    63:58
    That sounds like less than they usually do. There was rumors of 100 that they were going to sell direct.
    64:05
    And then Midnight Madness, Don Garrison of Don's Pinball Podcast, I guess formerly now of Spooky Pinball. I think he joined. I think he is employed by Spooky Pinball now. Oh, okay. I think so. It's still vague on the details of that, But I think he moved there and he works there. But he has collaborated with Spooky Pinball or his employer, whichever you want to look at it, for a midnight launch of the game. This is kind of cool. This, like, harkens back to the KD Toys and the Toys R Us game launch days of the Best Buy where you have to line up at midnight to get your ticket, and then once it opens there's so many PlayStations they're selling or Nintendos. But he got 20 in this other game. So he did some kind of giveaway thing where you had to respond fast to get one of those 20 tickets, and then you go up on midnight before the launch, you hang out, you get to see the game, and put your deposit in then. But that sold out. That was 20 units there. So Spooky may only have 80. There may only be 80 units left. So on launch day, bam, those are going to be gone. I did get a little kickback, a little, not kickback, I got blowback. That's the better one. I wish I got a take back. Got a blowback for people who are upset about the 30 minutes thing. They're like, that doesn't give enough time. I'm like, well, shit. What am I supposed to open it up for like eight hours for you to decide?
    65:31
    No. 30 minutes. Isn't that enough time to kind of. I mean, I get. So 30 minutes from when? The trailer dropping? Yeah. I mean, our lives don't revolve around the trailer dropping. So I get where they're coming from on it. The pics. Pics. You need to see what product you're buying. Sure. That's your statement. I do think 30 minutes within seeing the product is aggressive but not unreasonable. But I do understand, like, I'm not going to see the trailer when it drops. I'm not going to be able to see it until I'm off work sort of thing. Yeah. My argument was – We don't all work for ourselves. My argument is it is the most fair process in the entirety of this game release because you think Spooky's going to let anybody see? No. They're going to open their website at launch, and they're going to take their A, and they're done. So I don't know what the better alternative was out there. I don't think there is one. I think it's just – but I do get it. But shoes are that way. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that way that you have to take the risk of going in. That's part of getting the item. No, I understand. Do watches do that? Is there like a limited watch that people want? There's all sorts of models. It's kind of like shoes, I think. I'm not a shoe person, but I know you've bought some limited release shoes. And so it's like sometimes it's just like they let the people who buy them are picking off of lottery. And maybe you see some. The difference is, and this may be true for shoes, it's true for watches. Usually, we see the renders and everything. Like the imagery is at least available. You wouldn't have been able to handle it, but you'd be able to see what it looks like before you would buy. Pinball and this archaic let's keep everything a quote-unquote secret until launch day is a tired methodology that not even video games does. And I think that there's no reason to keep doing it this way. I think everyone just thinks they have to. And I think they'd solve a lot of these issues if they would just finally realize, hey, it's okay to say I've got Beetlejuice. It's not coming out for two years. Deal with it. I think that they absolutely should not listen to that and they should absolutely do what they're doing. No, my idea is great. Embrace my idea. You could be the brave ones. Don't do it. Why not? Because, I will easily tell you. Yeah, tell me. This is a very niche product.
    67:56
    And having high emotion converting to a sale, likelihood is a lot higher conversion there than allowing somebody to see a layout in Toys and think it over for two or three weeks. I didn't say let them see it. In this instance, all I said was let them know that you have the license. Okay. Letting people know. Again, like video games, like Elder Scrolls 6 is coming. Outer Worlds 2 is coming. There will be another Doom. They know for years. The argument against it has been, as near as I've heard, has been, and Josh Sharpe articulates this very well, but has been a, the concern manufacturers have had is if you know that this new thing is going to eventually be there, you're going to hold your money back and not buy something more recent. But as you noted, Zach, I think so many home collectors, that made sense in the arcade era, But so many home collectors are so emotionally driven by the licenses that not knowing that Beetlejuice was coming out is not going to make someone buy Dungeons and Dragons. It's not the same. It's not how I think it works for most people. And we already know most of the stuff anyway because it's leaking constantly. We have the pinball as a colander. I'd have to think about that a little bit. Those are my arguments. I could see the argument of, like, it kind of being antiquated, like, the whole – there are some manufacturers that still swear by, like, launching a game at a convention, like a pinball convention. And I'm like, gosh.
    69:31
    No, you're right, Zach. It's not – like, I'm not saying you won't get any sales doing that. Sure. I'm sure there are some people who are like, gosh darn it, I buy a pinball machine every year.
    69:42
    I don't know when Pokemon's coming out. Let's say I didn't even know Pokemon was being made, and Pokemon's the dream thing. so I guess I'll get Harry Potter.
    69:49
    Yes, I'm sure there are some people like that, but I just don't. Again, we see other industries do just fine with letting at least the concepts, the topics. My go-to example, Zach, is Godzilla. We knew Stern had Godzilla because Spooky spilled the beans years before it came out. It came and killed it, yeah. And look at how much sales it did. And the same with Harry Potter and the Kamikaze thing there. This does not – I think Josh is wrong. The line will continue to – I don't think the line is moving a bunch of units because we don't know what's coming out. I agree. I agree with that. And the rumors have undermined all – I mean, it was super cool that Barrels was able to drop Winchester and not leak. That was really cool. But ultimately, I think if we had known a game called Winchester was coming out and then we found out when it launched that it was Carl D'Angelo, it still sold out.
    70:44
    that day. You still are forming impressions that are hard to alter. Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to think about that one. I don't have all the answers, Zach. I don't either. This is the Dennis Theory. I leave it to the listener to contemplate. November 14th. On the tree of woe. Where's our Conan pin? We don't want that. You have the tree be the bash point You gotta bash him down from the tree Can't get Arnold anymore Oh that's true I'll have to zoom in on that buzzard that was eating him November 14th This is going to be a quick Sell out and I'm always worried about like Is he going to live up to the hype Damn I've never seen We thought Winchester was hype Does it matter if it sells out who really cares Doesn't hurt you as a distributor doesn't hurt Spooky as a company, right? Like, they'll make the money. Tree falls in the forest, yeah. Yeah.
    71:47
    Production update. We'll know more next episode. But production update. Right now, Spooky is shipping around number 675 for Evil Dead, so they're in good production timeline to have that done probably right at the end of the year here, if not sooner. They're still making catalog games, too. Looney Tunes, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Scooby-Doo. I know because we put in another order for them. It'd take a little bit longer to make because I make batches every probably once a month or so. So they never reached the final counts on those yet? Correct. Okay. I didn't know why it was meant by catalog game. Oh, I'm just calling them catalog. I'm not worried with that term. No, that's me. That's my incorrect description of them. They're almost catalog-esque because they have not made all of the limited models that they have announced that they could make. So they're cataloging until they sell out. So now they're still limited. Okay. New code. Now, Spooky does this every month. I love this. For the month of October, they give you, like, new code releases on their catalog of the games. Their previous games, a lot of them, which I think is just fantastic. And their girthy updates, too. For Evil Dead, we've seen a brand-new wizard mode, Kandarian Demon, or multiple phase defeating demons, cultivating in a final super jackpot. It's in wizard mode. You also get a video mode that a lot of people have been talking about, a retro 70s style.
    73:11
    It looks like an Atari type of arcade-esque video mode. A lot more on that. New code on Looney Tunes. They get another wizard mode called Factory Mayhem. Earthquake Pills, another mode. New code for Texas Chainsaw. Bonus ball feature. Now, this is something, I guess, that's more nostalgic to older pinball machines, having a bonus ball.
    73:35
    That's what I'm told. It's like a... What, like an add-a-ball? Like they used it back in the day that there's a bonus ball feature on older games, but I don't... This is a special timed round that begins after your final ball. You qualify the bonus ball by completing combos and activating your shot multiplier with a quick double tap of the extra flipper button. But I think it's like after it's all said and done, then you get one more shot, a timed mode to get bonus points.
    74:04
    Zaccaria, the Italian manufacturer in the 80s, 90s, they had some games that would give you a bonus ball. Like you'd earn bonus time while you played the main game, and then it would let you shoot a bonus ball around for a bit. I only can remember it with Zaccaria. What was the Judge Dredd? Like the Super Game. Right. The Super Game stuff, you could pay extra, and then I think you could get a fourth ball, but it wasn't timed. You just got an extra ball to play or two or something. They did that for other games. Different modes and stuff on that Super Game, though. All right, new code on Scooby-Doo. Where are you? The new multi-phase mystery monster mode, Snow Ghost. Halloween got new code as well. You get a chance for a jump scare after a miss-skilled shot. You can go straight to the wizard mode by holding the start button and even more audio and video clips. Some say that's the best game they've made.
    74:59
    You're so wrong. You're so mean. Why are you so mean? I thought that's what Greg's opinion was. Oh, he loves that game. It is a good game. We had a nice little hearty debate on our happy hour hangout about you saying Halloween sucks and me saying it's actually a really good game. I think I phrased it differently than that. Yeah, you may have.
    75:21
    And not in a nice way. Okay, exclusive club content. Last episode, we gave these people damn near an entire episode. It was really, really good. It was girthy, as you like to say. It was wide. Almost as double wide as that Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, her trailer.
    75:42
    That was on the Hangout, too. That's right. Home sweet home. She lives right with that walking dead redneck. Hey, honey. Home sweet home.
    75:55
    Get my cameras. Sorry. So we've got exclusive content this time around for the Pinball Show Club members. All you've got to do is go to patreon.com slash the pinball show, sign up today, and you get all kinds of perks and benefits, Discord, privatist chat, and extra content. This week's going to be a really good one. I think a lot of people are going to like this. We're calling this FOMO versus NOMO, where we're going to discuss the answers to the questions that a lot of people have been asking because I thought pinball market was doomed. I thought it was dead. It was dying. Nobody's buying any more games, Dennis. Wait a minute. They are buying games. Stop selling out. What? I've never even heard of Winchester. Wait, it's sold out? So the real, is FOMO back?
    76:45
    Where is all this coming from? I thought it was, the sky is falling. Is that what gets clicks? I can't keep up with what gets clicks. I think sometimes everything's doomed. Stern is melting down. They're failing. but then all of a sudden everybody else is doing great.
    77:06
    We're going to find out on the exclusive content FOMO versus NOMO. We're going to set the record straight and let you guys know what's really going on in the world of pinball.
    77:17
    All right, as we move on, barrels of fun. We should start seeing some Winchester Mystery House games trickle out of the factory in the next week or two. And they will be a slow trickle. Have you gotten a copy to Joel yet? You need to get Joel. I may have number one In my game room I guess the trickle Already started for some people It's right But I don't know if Joel's going to get it this week Or not Right now he has Dune So he's been playing that I know but he needs Winchester They had an alternate back class They debuted at Expo Did you see that thing people are raving about No I did not There's this back class that shows the worm And the rider Yeah it's just a back glass of just big booty hole Right there And people loved it The colors and everything More than just brown And people liked it But it's coming soon still We don't know the pricing We don't know when But I think their All them parts came in I don't know It's coming soon So stay tuned for that and we should have a topper at some point for Dune and Winchester. Okay. Now, I do have to remind people that are part of the official club of the Pinball Show by going to patreon.com slash the pinball show. Last episode, we were talking about the big old episode that we gave them. I just wanted to briefly remind people what we did talk about. A lot of it was about Chicago Expo, but a lot of it was like behind-the-scenes distributor stuff too. I needed to vent I was stressed I needed to vent a little bit About some of the ongoing business relationships With some of these manufacturers Some of the head scratching things That make me as a distributor Question why I'm not still a psychologist And more So make sure to go check that out We talked about our thoughts of Winchester Mystery House But also about Predator Because that was at the show What we thought of that game Dutch Pinball And Sweet Alice and almost seemed like the Dutch was pretty concerned with people bailing on their Alice orders because now they're making that a requirement to get in front line on Back to the Future, which is a move I absolutely hated, and I gave explanation as to why I thought it was horrible, and we discussed that in length. And then Hexa announcing three Musketeers. We talked about our thoughts regarding that. Big Trouble in Little China, Monster League Hockey, all the homebrew stuff. World of Ball by Orbit Games. That alone was a nice discussion piece that you need to go listen to. But also Chicago Gaming Company. We talked briefly about it, but we didn't go in-depth about it, and I wanted to bring that up here for you, the viewer, a couple weeks late. But nonetheless, if you're not a club member, this is why. They are making more Medieval Madness Merlin editions next year, 2026. But here's the big but. And please note that dealers cannot take orders at this time. Now, this is coming straight from the tap of Chicago Gaming Company. I believe this was all bold in an email to dealers and said, do not take money. You are not allowed to take money for any orders. We don't even know what our allocation is as a dealer for 2026. So we would be taking orders for something we don't even know how many we're getting. So do not take orders. All caps bold. If you do take pre-orders for this next run, you will forfeit your allocation for said run.
    80:58
    So I better not take any money for a run. So I thought that was interesting that they made that claim. It's an interesting juxtaposition versus what we've seen out of other manufacturers. Yeah, and I'm glad they did it as well. I think that's good. I don't know when they're going to make them. They do have other plans. I don't think it's a stretch to share that they have other plans in 2026 to build something else besides Medieval Madness. So I think they'll continue right into January and roll into it. Because they're halfway done with Merlin's, their 1,000 run. So they're halfway done with that. They probably started, I think they'll probably January-ish, they'll be done with that 1,000 run. and they will jump right into, in my estimate, another 1,000 run, which probably, what, five, six months, have another game released by Expo, start building that in 2029, and, yeah, I think that's what the timeline ends up being.
    82:05
    Cactus Canyon Remake with Upgrade Kits. We're on the floor at Expo, and everybody's asking me. I felt bad because we got an indication like a month ago that these things were supposed to be shipping, so I got payment from everybody that still didn't have them from our first bundle that we got. And everybody's like, Zach, you took my money. And I'm like, I'm sorry. They gave me indication they were supposed to be like early October. But they're saying November now, so please, for the sake of my sanity, CGC, please come through. We do have some in stock, though, flipping out pinball. I think SE Plus with the kit already built into the game. So bye-bye-bye. Bye-bye-bye! Screaming Goat Club!
    82:43
    Something special. this episode. But first we've got to thank some people. Like Rodney. Think Rodney's in on Beetlejuice?
    82:56
    Yes, I do. So Rodney probably won't mind me sharing. He was in. And then he was out. And then they pull me back in. So he's on the cusp of like... They talked to his wife and he had to go in. Oh, shoot that fucker. I'll scare that fucker.
    83:18
    So he's in-ish, I think. Rob, thank you so much for the continued support. Panther, is Rob in? Yes. Maybe we'll know if we're on number 14. That's the tricky part. A lot of these guys, they're in. How great would it feel to be a consumer and seeing everybody around you have to blow their money before they even know what they're buying.
    83:46
    But you're with a dealer that you've got a guaranteed spot. You don't have to pay anything right now. You can sit back for a half an hour, sip a drink at 10 in the morning or 11 in the morning, and watch and view all the content about Beetlejuice and then decide. I like how everyone is free at 11. I like this assumption. Hey, you know what?
    84:08
    This is the way it is. You know, shoes come out. Nike ain't going to wait for you. Well, Bill's got a busy day at work, you know.
    84:16
    I'm just saying that you've constructed this. They're out there on the porch, porch swaying, mint juke in hand. Just waiting to watch that featurette. Yeah, they got a pie on the sill.
    84:34
    Yes. And look, schedule your coffee shit During at 10am I gotta shit, I'm going to the break room Or whatever, wherever you shit Thank you, Rob Frank!
    84:48
    Thank you so much for the continued support Can't thank you enough And your cute little claws I wonder if he painted his little claws for Halloween Take care Think he's in? I think all these guys are probably in No, I don't think they're all in. Not all. Frank, though, yeah, probably.
    85:10
    You can ring my bell, Charlie. Ding dong, I'm thank you. I'm guessing Charlie is not in. Okay, we're guessing Charlie's out. Yeah. Doesn't seem like a bell game. Yeah, he sent me a picture of him and the family at Halloween, and it was very clever. Very clever, what they did. William, thank you for the continued support. The dude? Definitely, Ian. It's our dude. It is our dude. You know what? Dude might have one of the first in the world. And a good day to you, sir. Deuterino. Mm-hmm.
    85:44
    Papa? Fasha. Right. Adam? I was going to say no for Papa. Got a little one. He's busy. He's so busy. You are like Papa. I don't know. Adam is growing in his whale ways. Right? Under our eyes. Wow. Maybe that's his savings for his little baby. Oh, it's not a money question. It's not a money question for any of them. It's a time question. Yeah, that's right. It's a time question.
    86:12
    Yeah, so thank you, Adam, for the continued support. I think Adam's in. And it could be a space question, too. There's also space issues. Oh, is it relativity? What are we working with here? Not everyone wants to put on an addition to their addition. Murph! Man, we need an additional dollar. I've been working on Spooky and Barrels. I'm like, come on. Hold up. Do you think, Dennis, here's my pitch to one of them. Maybe I pitched them both. I think we could sell 500 Interstellars. Sure. Okay. That's a good movie.
    86:50
    Inception's better. Great. I think Inception's a better movie. Interstellar has better music. Oh, you know what? I was supposed to say David Van Ness. I was talking to him on the phone. And he said, tell Dennis that I am totally behind him on a Deep Horizon pinball machine. You mean Event Horizon? Event Horizon, Deep Horizon. Oh, yeah. Same bullshit movie. Have you ever seen Fire and Zero-G? It's a baby bear. It's beautiful. It's like a liquid. Yeah. What did you tell me? He was like, it's like a haunted house in space. I don't know what you told me. Yes. And look at how Winchester did. Now you get the sci-fi nerds and the haunted house people We don't need that shit Lawrence Fishburne could voice it Oh I want Interstellar Honestly Interstellar is a I mean I would be tempted I think I could sell 500 Interstellar games You could probably sell 500 anythings Yeah that's true That is true What about Caretaker?
    87:54
    Caretaker Yes, it's right up there. Now with Spooky Speak, the tiny hand doesn't need to be involved. It's really an accommodation. I just so want Scary Movie 2. Can you sell 500 Scary Movies? Maybe ask David if he has thoughts on Scary Movie 2.
    88:13
    Oh, my God. We're definitely making that one. So thank you, Brian, for the continued support. I don't, you know what? I don't, I speak with Brian, but I don't, He has not responded to his name.
    88:27
    We're still assuming he's okay, but maybe not. Maybe he's deeply annoyed every time. It's like Ken with the whole Dr. Phil thing.
    88:40
    Maybe a little inside baseball. I don't think at this point Ken would care. That was a long time ago. But Zach, back with the Twip podcast, he did things for like everyone. He did characters. Yeah, we all have characters. I don't even mind mine anymore because he had a rotating cast of guests. And Ken got to be Dr. Phil. Ken hated being Dr. Phil. Absolutely hated it. Yeah, Dr. Phil hated Ken Cromwell. He would always find a way to fight. And it was super meta. Yeah, Dr. Phil didn't like Ken, but we don't know why. But poor Ken is not a confrontational kind of guy, so he put him in a place that he wasn't comfortable. And it always upset him. But that made me lean in even more. Because that how back with the not to opine too much because we had so much to go over So on the Twitter podcast days when I was going on I think I was like the ninth person on it Eight I believe That an eight
    89:40
    It all blends, Zach. I'm old. I listened to the prior episodes, though, and I realized what you do. Or maybe more specifically what your guests do. I haven't realized it. You would.
    89:53
    And you do it less now, but sometimes you'll do it to me on occasion. But you'll do a strong take. You'll take a strong take. In fact, it'll be a deliberately provocative approach to whatever, any sort of pinball concept. And your guests, every single one of them, from Greg Bone, who's done shows with you for years, to people like Ken who are new, they immediately do what most people do when they're all of a sudden having some fairly aggressive approach thrown in their face. They step back. They try and diffuse. And so they all try and diffuse, basically feeding whatever the argument is to you by default. So when I went in, I told myself, Zach is going to do this to me, and I cannot show weakness. I must fight aggression with aggression. You did. And so when you would take a strong take, I would double down on my original take to counteract it. And that's what Jeff loved back in the day. And here we are. Back when I still had spirit. How many years later? Anyway, years later, now the strong takes have worn me down to the nub. I know. We're more agreeable on most things.
    91:07
    It's like, okay, well, we kind of know each other's perspectives. A little bit of flare-ups. You were ready earlier to argue a bit about the whole should releases be known ahead of time. And then you were like, oh, well, then this is just saying the name of the game, not showing all the assets early. We know each other well. Yeah, I think we do. Well, who we don't know well is our new goat. We have a new Screaming Goat Club member. Thank you so much for joining the club, the elite club, the most beloved club. We love you more than any of our other followers. That's the answer. We love you more than the Nordman Club levels, but we do love the Nordmans a hell of a lot more than the other club members. About my tier, we can rename it the Plastic Ramp Tier because I believe in plastics. Plastics make it possible. You said you can't design a game. Nordman can design a game. Absolutely. Classic Tank Forces are still available on Pinoween. I need to buy some of those, actually. Mm-hmm. Damn. You think they'd let me buy 20 of them at a discount? I'll tell you what. Find out how many are still left, and let's say if there are 19, you go ahead and ask for 20. And see what happens. It seems like something you would do. I'm just speculating.
    92:29
    People only know. Okay. We have to name this guy, though. Doug! It's Doug! Welcome, Doug. Oh, Doug. Oh, shit. He's our Doug? Are we Doug? He needs a name. Yeah, we got to do something creative. Doug, thank you so much. Do you know anything about Doug?
    92:48
    You've probably interacted with Doug. I don't know if I have before. I know a couple things. So Doug is newer into the hobby. Okay. We helped get him addicted through our show. So that's plus one for us. He has dove pretty quickly in, almost like a baby whale being birthed.
    93:10
    Oof, I just visualized that. And then we also know, he also told me that, just think about that. He also told me that the game that got him into pinball, the only time I've ever heard this, it's a good game, though. No Good Gophers got him into pinball. That is a lower choice. Yeah. So I found that interesting, whether that was his first game or whether he's ever even owned it. He said that No Good Gophers got him into it. And then I believe he bought an Uncanny X-Men, and then he has purchased a whole, he's went all in. He's in on a Beetlejuice. I think he's in on Winchester, I want to say.
    93:51
    Maybe Walking Dead. And he purchased a Star Wars and a John. Like, he's in. He asked about a Potter, but the wait time is pretty long, so he's going to hold out on that. So he's, yeah, he's all in. So it makes sense that he's all in as a Screaming Goat Club member. But we were thinking, you know, what do we name him? We've got so many terrific things that if he came in hot and heavy on no good gophers, then I think it's only necessary that he is now officially the gopher for the pinball show. Welcome to the club, gopher. It's like, no, it's not.
    94:38
    That's just so you can do gophers. I know. It's so obvious. I even did a song, you know, me and Stingy in our podcast. I was just like, no, he's going to do a ghost roar. It's impossible to avoid.
    94:54
    It's the dumbest cut. It's when he sees, it's Caddyshack 2, I think. It's in the Gopher. I love it. When he sees the poodle at the end of the sequence, he's like, and he does his little ush out.
    95:13
    Oh, I love that. Plus, we can cut to, like, we can cut to Caddyshack stuff, such as, like, Cinderella story. It's in the hole. Like, we can do that. We can do. We can do with CGC. Well, we're waiting.
    95:34
    What's that guy? We're waiting. It's at night. I don't remember. It's been so long.
    95:40
    I love that guy. and we got Chevy Chase stuff in there. This is, look, I'm hoping, Doug, you hang around. We have like at least a year and a half, two years worth of material that we can use. Go for here. Well, you buy a hat like this, I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh?
    96:00
    Oh, it looks good on you, though. Do write in to Zach and let him know what you think of your nickname. It is weighed on him terribly that he has not heard from the caretaker about his family. All of these. On the nickname. Because whenever we do this next round of Screaming Goat Club merch,
    96:20
    the names will be implemented into this next perkage. Oh, you're designing a new one. Interesting. I look forward to seeing it. What a fucking caretaker. I just can't imagine what it's going to be. You've got to make it so the tiny hand has to be visible. In some way, we've got to see the kind of hand. It's going to be the same as the Falcon. and it's just going to be a claw. Here's what I'm going to suggest to you, and obviously you've got your own creative vision, so you'll go what direction you choose, but if you, like, let's say it was like the pinball show was on the front, but on the back you had almost a mural where they're all integrated, working together in the story. So maybe Cass take us on a hand as we come down to the gopher trying to invite it to get saved from being scooped up by a bobcat.
    97:09
    That's how I see it. that. Wow. Even our past members, like Shaker Motor? I mean, yeah. Maybe leave off the ones that make no sense. I know. No, that's got to be it. Shaker Motor could be mixing the drinks for the dude or something over in the corner. What about, so Brad Albright, if you're listening, which I got a hell of a custom set. Brad's already like, this is five figures. This is too many characters. I'm drawing what?
    97:43
    That's, yeah. This is horrible. I think an artist like Brad would understand where I'm going, where I'm getting at with my vision. He's the original artist for the show, so we'll see. Okay. But welcome, Doug. Welcome, Doug. Thank you so much for playing along with us.
    98:00
    Discord, we've all been discussing all the new games, and a lot of people are all hot and heavy over Ray Day's new update on Star Wars Fall of the Empire. So that's good to know. And reminder that we're going to have a happy hour hangout towards the end of November. So stay tuned to that. And if you're just an official club member, think about upping your pledge to the Nordman level so that you can hang out in that happy hour hangout. That last one. Bourbon went down really good. And yeah. You shared a lot. I tried to give you some provocative kind of thought experiments to work through your angles as a businessman. I didn't know if I was going to get here I didn't know if I was going to be Because I'm in editing purgatory right now Whenever I get off of this I'm going to go back to editing I'm going to be honest with you Finishing up the featurette for Beetlejuice Everybody's like They're sold out Yeah they're sold out But a deal's a deal Zach's got to follow through That's my piece That I look forward to it.
    99:11
    But I was like, do I do this this week or not? Do I have? But then it just kind of wrote itself and I had to. But I thought now that Halloween is over and gone, the season to be jolly, happy, to be merry is upon us. And I can't leave these people without what they feel like is the Christmas gift each and every episode of the pinball show. almost to the point that all I want for Christmas is Mariah Carey bringing me into the intro of Pinball Market Trends! What would you do if Mariah Carey showed up on your doorstep and started singing to you Christmas carols at the beginning of November? I would give her a dollar.
    100:07
    Be gone. She's pretty good, so she would earn some money. I would melt. I would fangirl out. Would you rather Mariah Carey sing at your doorstep, or would you rather it be Dolly Parton? You know the answer to that. I know. Yeah. Dolly. Yeah. Bitch Mariah Carey. Dolly can come on. Come on. Again, sing all day to me. You know what my grandfather used to say? Maybe this was a perverted old saying, but I just love it. He would say about, because, you know, like, I don't know, just an old German dude. He would have little quips and little idioms, just great stuff. And one of his sayings was, when he's seeing a beautiful woman, he would nudge me and say, I'd let her eat crackers in my bed.
    101:02
    I've never heard that expression. How great is that? I just love that. I'd let her eat crackers in my bed because nobody likes crumbs in the bed for her. Except for the women. I would let her eat crackers in my bed.
    101:19
    But then it's so dry. Trending up this week is Spooky Pinball. They've got to be. They've dominated the collector chatter over the past couple of weeks. And we owe them. Because I trended them down last episode, I thought it only appropriate because numbers don't lie. And I only report the facts. We've got to trend them up. They came out hot with the teaser. They've got the launch coming up in the next couple of weeks. By the time we record it again, we're going to have seen it and everything. Maybe played it. But Spooky Pinball is absolutely trending up in the right way. A lot of people saying be company to watch out for moving forward. Also trending up this week, it's got to be Beetlejuice. We trended it up last week, but this week it's an instant sellout, kind of. And if we're talking numbers, this is a segment of markets, friends, and numbers.
    102:13
    Right now, if people are trying to sell their spot for profits, right now they could get $3,000 to $4,000 over MSRP just for that spot sight unseen before the game is even launched. That is a huge training up. Exponential growth. there, and would you sell right now?
    102:39
    Uh, no, I probably would not. Okay. I don't know, it's a bit of a gamble. You don't think, like, if you were speculating, this is probably the time it's possible it could go up more once people see the game, but I think the odds are even higher that it would go down. So, just because, you know, the more you show, the more risks there just is that someone will say, ah, that didn't have the thing that I wanted, so. Sure. I mean, if I was a speculator, I would probably dump it now, but I would be still like, I think I might want this game. So I would hold on.
    103:13
    He's holding strong there. Diamond hands. Watch out now. No cap. I'm going to try and work in some Gen Alpha sling into our episode now. No cap for Riz. It's like, no, we're not doing four, five thousand dollars profit. We're looking for six, seven. How did you not know what that was a couple weeks ago? Look, you've blown up over the last two weeks. You give me too much credit sometimes. Have you seen the South Park episode? It's been a while, okay? The South Park episode of 6-7 a couple weeks ago was so good. No, I haven't seen South Park for eight seasons at least. Oh, my God. It's so good. The 6-7 stuff, I barely know anything about it. I heard it's based off of the height of a basketball player, and that's all I know about, like, the origins. Yeah, I have no clue, and it's about stupid kids, and they annoy me. But the South Park is killing it right now. I just love everything that they're doing with the whole Trump stuff and, hey, guy, with Satan and impregnating Satan. It's hilarious. So it's really, really good. I'm speaking. Look. It's all a circle. It's all part of the simulation. Spooky pinball. Did you see the training up? Did you see what they dressed up as on social media for Halloween? The whole, the core group of Spooky dressed up as South Park. Speaking of South Park. And I was like, hmm, is that like a tease? Do you think they could do South Park? Any company? We talked about this. Yeah, sure. I mean, Stern did it once. Way, way back. It was just like season one. I think it could do very, very well, especially right now. In fact, if I were to guess, if a company would do South Park, it would be any company except Stern.
    105:00
    They're too busy doing another Star Wars. Oh, low-hanging fruit. That's so... But tasty. So, Beetlejuice right now, you've got $2,000 deposit. You've not even seen the game. You could sell that damn thing for $5,000 to $6,000. Wow. All's turning up this week is flippers. They're back in a big way. And I'm joking. Trending up this week also is Winchester Mystery House. And it's trending even higher than it was last episode because stock continues to rise and to shine on this game. Spots right now for a $2,000 non-refundable deposit. It's going to take up to a year for them to make them all. Probably eight months, maybe sooner. But spots selling for around $3,000 over MSRP. So you're paying $5,000 to buy somebody's spot of Winchester Mystery House And for those that are saying, oh, it's just what people are asking, it's not what they're receiving No, no, I've got the requests and the person told me what they end up selling it for We had a couple of customers like, hey, I'm transferring over my thing And I'm like, I wish I could have made that money But that's fine, we will accommodate But yeah, they're making that money So training up is also Winchester Mystery House. All's training up this week is pinball market trends and scary slash horror pinball themes. What is it with this, Dennis? Is this just like a match made in heaven? This genre and the hobby industry of pinball? What's the deal? Historically, they've not, my understanding is historically, you look at old, back when we had production camps, no. Horror was not a very good mover. We had card games, casino games. Way back, yeah. And then we had superheroes, action films, blockbusters. Those did pretty well. So training up over the last couple of years is definitely scary slash horror pinball themes. Even like this year, we had Walking Dead remastered again. Beetlejuice, Winchester, Mystery House, Predator, all within the same year. You can even go back to 2024. Evil Dead, one of the greatest reviewed games of all time. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.
    107:16
    Horror. Sorry. Wrong word. We had Jaws, and we had Funhaus Remake, ABBA. We had a lot of horror, scary, pinball machines. So, turning up scary, scary, horror. That was clever.
    107:32
    All turning up as we get percentage-esque code statuses. Percentage-esque code statuses. There's a stat, stat-i. What is the plural statuses? Or is it just status? Data. I do not know that. StatEye.
    107:51
    I don't think it's StatEye. That feels very wrong. I don't know. That feels like an STI. StatEye. Percentage-esque code status. What I mean by that, CERN, I not only love that you're naming your code updates now, but you know what? I like the status percentage-esque of what the machine has done. 0.86 tells me a lot. It tells me more than .94 does, and it tells me a hell of a lot more than V1.0. I like that. I know that, like, Spooky and some other ones, they're doing date-based. I don't like that. You never know when it's done. You never know when it's like, how much more are we getting? It's very strategic on their part to do so. I like Stern pulling it all out of their pants and saying, here's what I'm working with, you know. I'm a grower, not a shower. We might start at .8 maybe But by the time we get to 1.14 Oh we're going to have a lot of enhancements So A little razzle that I like anticipating the growth If you will I'm so sorry But unfortunately trending down this week Not only was It's the walking dead There's no way to paint this picture other than that The original walking dead The ugly one Yeah It is You can give away I can just give it away now.
    109:14
    Man, even the L.E.s are going for, they're like down in the sevens. They're so low. I mean, it never was a high-value game. It wasn't. It's down a lot. It is really low. Also trending down this week is Stern Pinball?
    109:31
    That's what the media tells me. I like when podcasters and video creators, I like when they go, So it's almost like a snowball effect when one says something and then builds upon another saying. And all of a sudden you get this big, giant snowball that's big and fast. Or it's like a low-hanging snowball, one of the two. But everybody talks about it. And everybody's like, oh, Stern Pinball is dead. They're dying. They're not doing anything. And it's these boutiques. First off, they're not even boutiques anymore. Let's stop calling them that. I would not call barrels a boutique.
    110:10
    I'm sorry. I don't think that producing a couple thousand pinball machines at this point in two years is really boutique-y. Turner, that's what I'm calling boutique. Sure. Turner Pinball. I don't even call Pinball Brothers boutique. And based on the number of games they're selling, they should be. We're basing it on quantity criteria. But, no, they're not boutiques. So it's smaller manufacturers maybe would be the argument are going to overtake or they're doing better than Stern Pinball. So trending down is that based on everybody else besides me because this is Pinball Market Trends and numbers don't lie. We don't care about them clicks, baby. We just cares about truth. And Stern Pinball trending down in what way? You know what's trending up to me? Building 2,000 games in like two weeks. Good luck other manufacturers doing any of that. So for anybody to say that they're trending down, I would love to know in what respect are they trending down. Because they're doing very, very well. And they continue to probably exponentially grow more and more. So we've sold, I think we're going to end up selling by the year's end more Stern games than we did last year. And in that year more than we did the previous year. So we can trend them down all we want. And it's easy to punch up, but truth is that Stern Pinball is the king, the queen, the jester, and everybody else in the castle at this point. There could be arguments made for other manufacturers, like the JJP.
    111:54
    They'll have a hit or two here and there. Harry Potter, that's a hell of an uppercut. The Giants still stands. Winchester, cute, 525, and brings everything that hobbyists want. And results followed immediately within a day one sellout. That's a nice kick to the nuts. The Giants still stands. And then spooky pinball coming with Beetlejuice. Nothing gets better than that. And that is a major blow. But a blow that makes the Giants yawn. I think that Stern is very cognizant of the rest of the market. They're paying attention. I think they're even, I'll give it to some of you media people out there, they're going to learn from it.
    112:44
    But the engine of change in this industry takes a while. Maybe they're already mid-change. We don't even see it because what's the turnaround? We're dealing with two-year licenses, two-year production cycles on a lot of these games and products.
    113:01
    So changes have been made. We can't necessarily attribute new change. We can't attribute a lot of anything because we don't have enough details. But I just wanted to reiterate the fact that I'm not going to be the person that says Stern's trending down because they're not. They certainly are far from that. It's going to take a hell of a lot more for a longer time than that. But they are absolutely paying attention, and I do think that they think we see some very positive things in 2026 as a result of it. Look, people, I'm just here to report the facts. Numbers don't lie, neither do I.
    113:42
    On pinball market trends, what can people catch up? You can always email at collectorgamerspodcasts at gmail.com or email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. Dennis would appreciate it if you went to patreon.com slash thepinballshow and signed up as a club member. Or bump up your pledge there. It's in the telephone, but you know what I mean. Yeah, it would help us out a little bit. You can reach us at email. We've got the socials, Facebook, TikToks, Patreons, Instagrams. I don't know what we do with any of it. Straight down the middle is a video series I do. Please follow, like, and subscribe to that. And the sponsor of this magnificent show is the magnificent Flippin' Out Pinball. When I buy my pinballs, when I buy from Flippin' Out. From Topper's to Playserious, I've got it. Flippin' Out, Flippin' Out.
    114:32
    When I take a pinball, I think Flippin' Out. Flippin' Out, Flippin' Out. When I buy, buy, buy, I buy from Flippin' Out. Buy, buy, buy. Product showcase this week is The Walking Dead Remastered. As of this... I have to... I think... think. I think we have LEs left.
    114:52
    I don't know because we're recording this on Sunday and the list versus my allocation, we're getting close for LEs if every single person takes what they see on Tuesday. But jump in on that by emailing me, Zach, Z-A-C-H at FlippinOutPinball.com or go for the premium. A lot of people are going to save some money, get the same game and go for that. Or Ken or Greg You get FlippinOutPinball.com. Medieval Madness Remake Merlin Editions. If you want to order one today, just give me your – nope, you can't. Nope. You can go on our list, though.
    115:27
    Hopefully we'll get a lot. We got a big healthy amount the first time around, so hopefully they repeat that. Harry Potter, get in line. We're looking at spring for new orders pretty much everywhere.
    115:42
    When do you think they're going to cut the CEs? or remember that? They were like cutoffs. Yeah, I think once the man dips enough, I thought the whole point of doing what they did was just to kind of, you know, milk that as long as they could. So people are still willing to, I mean, it is the best art package. Yeah. King Kong, that's the grower right now, King Kong. I knew it would be. I knew it freaking would be. And that's where we're starting to see that pickup speed. Jaws still up on top. It is really a heavy seller right now. Remember, though, the 50th anniversary. They're only running it this year. If you think you're going to want a Jaws, buy, buy, buy. I would bump that up on your priority list a little bit. If you're going to get a premium, go for that one because you're going to be kicking yourself in the ass next summer. They're going to be gone. They'll be gone. Jaws 50th will be gone by the end of Q1 from all dealers. They'll be gone. Dune, another little hot title. I'm putting them all up top here. Our next batch is December. I think we have three more spots in that batch. So bye-bye-bye. Bye-bye-bye! We own games. We're still working on website integration on that. Until then, Facebook page. We got it. I had a collector that sold, he had like five or six games, high, like Tron LEs, Guardians LE. I've got them coming. So I just got to go over them, take some pictures, make sure they're all good. But low plays. Hopefully there wasn't a Walking Dead in here Dungeons and Dragons Uncanny X-Men Keep an eye on that game Jurassic Park Labyrinth Avatar Nobody had Biner Avatar Elton John I didn't report this Elton John CE now sold out at Jersey Jack Temple Huh? I think we have one I don't think we have any left Shit You know it's nice whenever you get down to like your last hundred or so maybe letting your sales force know that last call or something instead of just an email that says, hey, we're out. Appreciate that. It's up.
    117:47
    All right. Stair climbing hand trucks, toppers. Oh, Joel is flipping out pinball YouTube. Recent Dune stream. He's going to be streaming Winchester here soon enough. So tune into that. Flipping out pinball podcast with Ken and Greg. Episode 12, a spooky Halloween where they go over the top Halloween pins. They go over recent releases Of Beetlejuice stuff It's good, it's a good lesson If you're not following and subscribing to them You absolutely need to be doing that That's maybe the newcomer of the year there Alright Dennis They need to learn something And you know, given the popularity Once more of South Park Perhaps the answer really is that the next Stern remaster Should be their South Park game From 1999 Bring it back, give it a new fresh coat of paint Who knows? How many? It can't. It won't do worse than Walking Dead. I guarantee it. Oh.
    118:44
    It's not nice. Even though Walking Dead is a way better game. And always practice safe pinball. And FOMO may be alive and well. Just don't make it alive and well for vanity plates on your upcoming Beetlejuice pinball machine. Do me a solid. And don't put me through that. You can. It's totally fine. I have to always remind people, customers. They're like, I don't want to ask because I know you. I'm like, guys, I'm creating some entertainment for podcasts. So never feel bad to ask me to do my job, please. I love doing my job. But don't ask me about them damn vanity plates. Don't ask me what numbers you're going to. No, you can ask me about all of that. Just don't. But do. It's all fun. Bye.