coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball land welcome to episode number four zero of the special when lit pinball podcast i'm ken cromwell and i am bill webb uh i'm a little hoarse today i i was getting a little hoarse during episode number 39 i was hoping i wasn't gonna come down with anything and I kind of got slammed hardcore with some type of a cold all week. So my apologies if I sound a little raspy, Bill. I don't think you sound, you sounded worse. So you're on the upswing of this, which is good. Well, arguably I sound better when I can't talk. So that's what my wife has been telling me. You know what? You can kill kind of anything with 80 proof of whatever. You can. And that's what I'm doing tonight as I do during all podcasts. I am sipping some alcohol. Keeps me loose and prevents me from rambling more than I normally would. And in any event, what's going on with you, man? Anything happening? Just kind of working on Whirlwind and looking forward to Texas Pinball Festival, which is coming up here soon. Yep. You can give us a Whirlwind update at the end of the show, right? Yeah, that's when we do that. Yeah, cool, man. I'm looking forward to TPF, too. I'm looking forward to the weather change. We're still in, like, 15 to 20-degree weather here. And we've got March coming up, and it doesn't look like there's an end in sight. I think we're going to be down in single digits in the Chicagoland area. Again. Yeah. Again. Yeah, which, you know, a couple years ago, there was stuff growing in late February up here. I know. I feel like I'm in, like, nuclear fallout, man. Like, for some reason, it might not ever, ever become warmer. No, we are stuck in this frozen tundra. Anyways, as we get into the pinball news, we've got a range of topics today. Some of this has been discussed on other podcasts. Some of it we're going to get into ourselves, but let's get the show moving along. You ready, Bill? Let's do it. I wanted to focus on, first, we talk all the time about the exposure of pinball and purpose of our podcast to try to increase that exposure. But right now we're looking at pinball going to be on ESPN, which is going to be one day in August when ESPN turns into the Ocho, where they kind of broadcast fringe sports. So you'll see like cornhole, which is bags. Now, I find it interesting because I've had discussions with other people about if pinball is going to be on TV, if it ever gets on ESPN, then you'll know that it really made it as like kind of a big deal sport-wise. Question I have for you, one, did you ever think that you would see pinball on ESPN? Never. Yeah, neither did I. Not even a snowball chance. So I'm assuming the way they're doing this is they're not going to sit down and cover an eight- or 12-hour tournament. I mean, this is going to be prerecorded at the Stern Pro Circuit Championship that's coming up in March. That's the 9th. And then I'm assuming it's going to be edited up into a nice, neat package that will then be aired on ESPN in August. Now, do you think that would be more like a documentary, like this is where pinball's at, blah, blah, blah, blah? I don't know if it's a documentary. Not a documentary, but more like, you know, pinball's alive in these tournaments, and, you know, here's, you know. That's where I think it is. I think it's just going to be people are going to get a taste. And I'm assuming that they might get into, like, general overview of the field, rapidly narrow it down to quarterfinals and finals, and then, you know, the presentation of the trophy and the check. But in any event, it's really cool, especially for those that are involved in competitive pinball, which we certainly are not competitive pinball players. But I can appreciate where pinball has come and a lot of hard work for those guys. So congratulations to everybody that's in competitive pinball to have reached this milestone. Right. I mean, that's what it is. Pinball and ESPN. It doesn't get any better. And then what we see now also is that there's a there's a sports book website. It's my bookie. And they are offering odds now on pinball. And one of the first events that you can actually gamble on or wager on is the Stern Pinball Pro Circuit Championship. What are your thoughts on wagering on pinball tournaments? Once again, this was something that came out of left field. I heard that today. And on this week in pinball with Zach and Dennis. And I was like, you know, in my head, I'm like, you know, two things you'd never think you'd ever hear. pinball on ESPN and pinball gambling. Yeah. And they're back to back. Right. So it's like they go hand in hand. I mean, you look at sports now. I mean, a big reason that the NFL is so popular is because one fantasy sports, but that's also a form of gambling. So and then wagering on games and playing the odds, I find it potentially dangerous. And I'll tell you why. I think that for a majority of the field that may not be that super upper echelon player that's going to go in and rake through championships, they almost stand to make more money wagering against themselves than they actually do trying to win a tournament. And I think that's where you kind of get into a little gray area. Well, it's not a gray area. It's horrible. I mean, you don't want to have people throwing games on purpose or have a collaborative effort where, hey, we're going to have player C, who has the eighth best odds to win this tournament. Let's all place heavy bets on him, and let's all figure out a way for him to go through. I mean, that would be unfortunate, and I'm not saying that that would happen, but it's hard not to think that the possibility would happen down the road at some point. You would think evil, but you know what? I think everybody that is playing pinball would want it too much. But I will give you this, though. I don't know, but think about the prize pools for a lot of these tournaments. I mean, you're not walking away with $50,000 and a new car. I mean – But what's someone's integrity worth? I don't know. I just see – you see with professional athletes. Yeah, I get it. I just wouldn't – I think in something like that, if you had eight people that have to give up and let x y and z player or you know bypass and win i don't see that there's just too many odds that against that being able to happen you can make more money throwing a tournament if you organize wagering your bets on somebody with with uh better odds better payoffs better yeah i get that part so i mean that's just where i'm thinking it's like ah it's it's and you would hope that that wouldn't happen and i'm not saying that it would definitely happen, but I could see something like that happen. And you start getting into parlays, win play show. I mean, if you could do something like that, like the track, a lot of different ways to do that. I also realize that it seems to me like a lot of people that are in pinball, at least a lot of friends that I know and that are in the industry are also, they like to gamble. They like poker and things like that. So it's like, it's cool. I don't know. It's interesting to bet on yourself and put extra pressure. I just, I don't like it. I don't like that there's a gambling aspect to this. That being said, I was looking at the field today, and I know exactly who I would put my money at for this Stern Pro Circuit. And don't think for a second that I will not be wagering on this. Ironically, this might be the thing that gets me more involved in competitive pinball, and that is being able to wager in pinball. And I'm not one that gambles freely. I am somebody that's involved in, you know, like your Super Bowl squares, NCAA tournament brackets, things like that. But could you imagine doing like a bracket for pinball? I mean, that would be pretty fun. That would be. You know what? So I do have this to add because this kind of was floating around in my head. So in the 40s and 50s, gambling and pinball were experimented with, and that's kind of what cemented the bad branding on pinball for such a long time and what had to be overcome for pinball to be legalized in a lot of the major cities. So here we are running full circle. We're not building gambling pinball machines, but we're just gambling on pinball. Yeah. So, you know, everything goes in spurts, I guess. You know, I mean, it all goes in cycles. So hopefully we don't see a decline and people start burning machines. I know. There's a lot of different angles to look at this. Like, initially, I'm thinking it's probably not the best idea. But again, that being said, happy to participate. Happy to do a bill. A little gambling and not pinball. You can bet on the coin flip on the Super Bowl. Right. I mean, you can bet on it, you know, rain, whatever. There's someone that's willing to take your money on stuff. I'm going to be like emailing Zach Sharp like a nutrition program for the 18 days leading up to the Stern Pro Circuit. I'm going to ask him if he wants to go jogging and stuff and get his mind focused. Give him some thumb exercises and index fingers. Don't pick anything up. Don't touch anything. Let's just exercise the eyes. Rubber gloves because we don't want you to get paper cuts on your fingers. That may affect your play. Right. Plenty of sleep. Take a couple vacation days off at Stern. Then you got people with binoculars watching through the office of Stern. Right. Zach got a paper cut. Oh, his odds just went up. Right. You know, or went down. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So, yeah, I mean, it's interesting. We'll see. I did want to cover. We kind of passed this, not intentionally, but because of the interviews that we had. And that was I wanted to touch base with what's going on at American Pinball. So the revised relaunch of Oktoberfest is currently gearing up for Texas Pinball Festival. and I guess the line is going. So these games are being manufactured. So I'm assuming when you get down to Texas Pinball Festival and you see the re-reveal of this new and improved Oktoberfest that you should only be a few weeks out before those start shipping. Cycling into homes. Or maybe they will already be ready to ship. I don't know, but it's close. But something that was brought up and that's interesting is that they had registered for four different themes. Licenses, which were kind of in the public domain, but they registered for these trademarks. And that is Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Valkyrie, and Poker Run. And I wanted to ask your opinion. We don't need to deep dive into this. But of the four of those, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Valkyrie, and Poker Run, how do you think Robin Hood would do as a theme for a pinball machine? Because if they registered for, I'm assuming they're going to do one. Yep. And that to throw everybody off, they've registered for four. And maybe this is kind of their way of doing a little bit of market research. They'll get the feedback from the community, and then they'll know which of the four that they want to pursue. But as yourself, Bill, as a buyer, as a pinball enthusiast, as a collector, as somebody that builds machines, If you could have a Robin Hood, a Sherlock Holmes, a Valkyrie, or a poker run in your basement, what would it be? And for those that don't know, Valkyrie are like these female goddesses that decide who lives and who dies on the battlefield. And poker run is like a car race that goes from one destination to another. And every time you make a stop, you're dealt like a poker card. And at the end of the race, you're trying to come up with the best hand. So it's kind of like a high-speed meets world poker tour type of pinball machine, I would assume. But going back to my original question, Bill, what do you want in the basement, and what would you not like in the basement? Would Robin Hood be a theme that you would want in your home? It would be second only to Sherlock Holmes. I think it would be more entertaining, but that's just me. I see the popular vote being Robin Hood. Valkyrie, I don't really see how you'd pull a theme off like that. Okay. And the other one, eh. uh poker run yeah i just i just don't see that one going the distance but you know what maybe i'm wrong now that said i would love to see on pinball betting them to put this in the betting the odds for what the next game is coming out right i don't like that that's see you're being ingenuitive maybe we start an offshore sports book for uh pinball licensing yeah yeah and then we can you know just have wagers going with odds yeah i like it you never know good time um yeah so So you said Robin Hood would be your choice? No, no, no. Sherlock Holmes. I'm sorry. So why Sherlock Holmes? Why not Robin Hood? Just because I think the Sherlock Holmes thing could be a little bit cooler, and I think it falls more in line with Houdini, in all honesty. So, I mean, that's where my vote would come in. Ah, okay. So you like kind of the theme that they're going with Houdini and Sherlock Holmes. Then you have a line of machines that kind of fall into each other. They're kind of like Rowan and Earthshaker. See, so when I was looking at the themes, like originally I was like, you know what? I agree with you. I think Sherlock Holmes would be really cool because the last time I remember like a pinball kind of clue whodunit was The Machine. And didn't Dwight Sullivan, he coded that, right? Or am I thinking of somebody else? I think he did. I think he did whodunit. So, I mean, it would be interesting to have another kind of – this is a problem, though, with like murder mystery pins or like solving crimes on Sherlock Holmes. I mean, it's kind of like once you know the video mode of an older DMD game, there's one path, right? So, like, you know how to kind of blow through that. It'd be unfortunate, and I assume it's like with whodunit, like you know how to solve the mysteries quick. So there'd have to be some randomness that comes into play, kind of like Clue, where if you're solving crimes, it can't be the same way to solve the crime every single time. No, but, dude, think about this as a theme, the Clue theme as a pinball machine. because you could have that constantly changing every time you hit the start button, which would be awesome. Well, that's what I was thinking. Just as you said, every time you start a game of Clue, it's randomized. So it would have to be something like that with Sherlock Holmes. Robin Hood seems like the weakest of the titles to me. I just think there's nothing about Robin Hood that appeals to me at this point anymore. Growing up as a kid, you hear the stories of Robin Hood. There's been so many movies that I can remember being made, and there's so many spinoffs of Robin Hood. It's just like, all right, steal from the rich and give to the poor. I get it. I don't need to see that in a pinball machine. I don't think Valkyrie I think when I think of interesting themes this one I think could be the hidden slam dunk the problem being it just not right It not easily recognizable when someone says Valkyrie did or Valkyries is somebody they like what the hell is that because that what i did when i first heard it but if you did it nicely with like a huge art package where it kind of seduced you in into the game and into uh like a an environment of uh life and death on a battlefield that could be really really cool um and great but you know the other thing too though is on something like that you would have to have some of the greatest animations and fire and true to pull that off you would need some animations on there and uh i am not sure where american pinball is in regards to animations at this point but yeah i think animations would play a huge role in that and then a light show and obviously a good rule set um so interesting point and then poker run i think could also be interesting because it appeals to car enthusiasts um for a racing type theme the problem is not everybody's into poker and there are a lot of people that know how to play poker so if there's strategy involved in in your way of trying to get the best hand that might be a swing and a miss so that kind of seems like a risky theme to me but i would i would sherlock holmes would be where i would go um and i wanted to say this if anybody remembers our holiday special and there was a gentleman on there who's a friend of the show his name is mark silk Mark Silk has done a lot of voice over acting He's won awards, he hosts shows in the UK If anybody in pinball is listening And especially American pinball If you're going with like a Robin Hood Or like a Sherlock Holmes Please let me get you in contact with Mark Silk Because I think his voice over work would kill it In either of those titles I'm just throwing that out there I think that would be incredible I mean, he's worked with Lucas Films, George Lucas. I mean, this guy's established. He's very professional. He's a huge pinball enthusiast. And I know that I've had conversations with him, with me just expressing how fun I think it would be for him to get more involved in pinball. And he wants to make that transition into getting more involved in pinball. And what a great asset to have with the voice of Mark Silke. And he's just a nice, easygoing guy. You know, you can't go wrong. Yeah, no, he is a great gentleman. I mean, he's definitely reached out to us on a few occasions. We've reached out back. Yeah, he's just an awesome guy. Super nice guy. If Steve Ritchie is coming up with a game here this year, right? So if he made a sequel to one of his past games, I just kind of took like a high-speed three and a Black Knight 3000 as two titles. And it's fun to speculate here because we were just talking about which one of these games would you like to see from American Pinball? And both of those teams have been announced by other podcasts saying that those were potentially the games in the running. So if we just have fun and speculate, if there was a high-speed three or a Black Knight 3000 coming out of Stern for Steve Ritchie's next game, what would you prefer to see? All right, so I would have to go with high-speed three, the getaway three, or however they chose to do it, just because I love that theme. And what a great game to base it off of. Not that Black Knight's not. It just doesn't call to me like Getaway does. And that's personal preference. Have you owned any Black Knight pins? No, I have not. That said, the one night for pinball night, our friend has a Black Knight 2000. You and I wound up playing it for a couple of games, and I thought it was one of the greatest nights of pinball that we've had in a long time. Yeah, it was fun. I question if those would be keepers for me. Yeah, longevity. I also agree with you. I think that High Speed 3 would be pretty cool just because, I don't know. I mean, there's like a pretty cool adrenaline rush when you're playing High Speed Getaway 2. Yeah, you know, High Speed 2. To see a follow-up on that would be great. I don't have enough time on the Black Knight pins to kind of have myself follow them, where I would be like passionate about wanting to have like a sequel to either of those games. But, you know, it's speculation, and we'll see what comes out of there. Is this something that you think, like people that, because Stern just started the Stern Insider Program, where you can pay $30 or $29. I don't know if it's annually or not. And then you can get like this inside information and first access to new games. And I'm sorry, man, I'm fighting. My voice is fading. Bear with us, people, but Ken's trying. We're going to make it through for this. I'm doing my best here. Do you think that like a reveal like that would be offered to a Stern Insider program subscriber before like anybody else would hear that press release? I wouldn't think that they would offer the game itself because it's just going to leak. at that point and then you don't have that under control but i could definitely see like them showing some blank play field you know layout oh yeah like whitewoods yeah and let you guess that way because then you're not disposing the uh license per se and you're still feeding the hype train yeah right you're planning on coming out with i was curious to see where the stern insider program is going to go i mean it seems like uh the concept is there the idea is there i think how they roll it out how it's implemented and how they keep up to date with it it's gonna to really decipher whether or not it's successful or not. We did have some people that reached out to us and they were saying, hey, with this Stern Insider Program, I guess there's going to be exclusive audio and video that they're going to be releasing to these guys. Does that mean that you guys are going to lose your access to Stern interviews or any podcast for that matter? And so I did reach out to Zach Sharp today and he confirmed that, yeah, we're not going to lose any access. They're just the way things are going to be rolling out time wise might change for us just because they've got priorities that they need to do with these Stern Insiders. But he still said that, you know, we have our access to their staff. So that was kind of nice, just kind of relaying the message to those that had asked. Pinball hype train, this is something that we're seeing right now with Munsters. And I know that we kind of talked about this earlier. Well, yeah, I mean, this came up when we were talking about Deadpool. You know, it came out, everyone was in love with it. It faded away quick, and people said it wasn't deep or it wasn't that. and now it seems like the Deadpool train has re-arrived. I was always driving that Deadpool train. You are right. You were right. When we first saw it, you and I thought it would look good. It might not have been the theme for us. Then you got one, and then you didn't want to be tied into it. It's still not the theme for me, but I love the pinball machine. I love how it plays, and I love the rule set. Yeah, so that hasn't changed, but it just seems like Deadpool is now the one that's really come back, everyone needs to get. Kind of like I've heard more people commenting on how great Beatles is. And honestly, I can't blame them because when we first got our chance to play a Beatles, you and I were blown away at how it played and stunned. I like I had written that off before before I even knew that it was there. I'm like, I couldn't have cared less. No. And you know what? It's not. It's just I think that we were I hate to use the word ignorant, but we were kind of ignorant. Oh, yeah. Yep. Ignorant. Absolutely ignorant. You know, so, you know, it's kind of funny to see these cycles going around. You know, the hype train pulls in because the game gets announced two weeks later. You know, this game's whatever. Then three months later, oh, this is, you know, it's got a code update. This game's come alive, you know, six months down the road. And then literally right before they yank it off the line, it goes through its last hype train. Right. And then years down the road, you get this sudden resurgence of this game is awesome and you need to buy it. Maybe not even years because you're right. Like there's this, the anticipation of the release. What is the next game going to be? Everybody's excited. Then you hear the rumors. Then it's revealed and everyone is like, oh my gosh, this is going to be great. Then you normally see like a stream and people are digging the artwork and they're digging how it looks on the stream and how it plays. Then you start seeing these unboxings and the games going on location. And then people start poking holes in this stuff. So then it kind of levels out and it starts deflating a little bit. Then there's like a decline that happens. And then all of a sudden, something gets polished on it, and it changes everybody's perspective. And then when it all settles in, more times than not, it seems like the games end up on the positive side of the hype versus the negative. And I'm just noticing it with Munsters is now currently in the cycle. So I'm curious to see how it ends up. I'm still waiting for my Munsters Pro. I can't wait to play it. We played it at Stern a few weeks ago, and I had a really good time. But I just want to have some time on it. I want to be able to offer some honest feedback on the game, especially how it plays. Because, I mean, you look at it and it's awesome. It sounds awesome. I want to wrap my mind and my hands around Dwight's rule set. I also want to see if it progresses, if any updates make any major changes. Don't know that they really need to, but I definitely can't wait to play and get some time on it and really get involved in the pinball machine. And I've heard a lot of people that I know talk about how fun it is and how it's like sneaky deep and there's a lot more going in. I'm not like score driven as much as I am like mode driven. So that's why I'm like, wow, this is going to be like a little bit of a change for me. So I don't know that I'm really trying to collect jackpots all the time. I like to progress through a game. I like to dive into a story and get involved and find hidden modes and that kind of thing. So that's why I can't wait to see how I react to monsters. And again, when I played it, I thought it was fun. Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? Going back on the hype train, it's just amazing to see. So with the next couple of games that come out, it'll be funny to watch. Yeah. Monsters drop down because now X, Y, and Z is coming out, or this manufacturer is coming out with this, and everyone starts unloading that. Right, right. Here, people weren't talking about the Pirates of the Caribbean by JJP, all that great for a while. Now everyone's saying, especially all the owners, this is such a great game, and now everyone's getting worried because they're going to pull them off the line. Right, right. So now it's supply and demand, right? So now this game, if it comes off the line, people are in a panic. Oh, my gosh, what am I going to do? What if I'm missing out already? Yeah, you force appreciated the game then. It's the hype train. And you know what? There are a lot of, and no disrespect intended, but I think there are a lot of people that are too easily influenced by the opinions of others. Myself included, in all honesty. I've been excited about something until somebody pointed out some shortcomings to me on a particular thing. And I was kind of like, man, I was all excited about it. Now you kind of got me down. And I'm not talking about anything in particular here. So it's like, don't be a wind sock. Don't go with the flow. Make your own decisions. And who cares if you like a game that somebody else doesn't? Because I'll tell you what. And I'm pointing at Deadpool right now. I took some crap from Deadpool, especially with Zack and Greg. It's straight down the middle. It made fun of me because Deadpool was ridiculous, and I just obviously didn't know what I was talking about. This is before the code update. So now with these code updates, I think these guys are coming around on it, and there's interest. I've heard Zack speak highly now of Deadpool and him wanting to play it. I think Greg's in the same token. So stick with something and stick to your guns, and I allowed them to make fun of me, and that was fine. So now I'm just kind of happy that I did stick to my guns and I didn't succumb to the peer pressure and let the cat out of the bag that, oh, well, it sucks because everybody else thinks it sucks. No, it's a good game. I like it. Well, and that's the hard part because literally you get one or two people that says, hey, the artwork's terrible or the code needs this or I don't like the mechs on this or whatever. and suddenly you're feeding a pile of negativity of people that say, listen, I don't want to buy a $5,500 or $5,800 Pro. Get stuck with a game that I won't be able to sell because people don't like the animations or whatever, and then you're buying into it. You know, buy what makes you happy, I guess, is the moral of the story with this whole segment. Yeah, and Munsters was such a conundrum for me because going with the Pro version, it was color, which I wanted, but it didn't have the lower play field, So I just didn't have the funds to get into an LE. But I'm happy that I'm starting with a Pro because, in any event, if it's something where that lower play field is going to be substantial for my enjoyment, I know that I can sell the Pro and get into a premium at some point. And being able to appreciate that black and white package more now than before doesn't concern me as much. And you can build into it too, which is nice. Yeah, right, exactly, exactly. But, I mean, to your point, though, you just can't make everybody happy, even with the T-shirts that we have. We got like 99% positive feedback. A little bit of feedback that was a little bit sketchy where it was maybe didn't appeal to somebody or maybe was a little bit of a disappointment. And that's okay. I love that the honest feedback is there. Cool. We knew that it was not going to be 100% received by everybody. And I appreciate that somebody felt honest enough to discuss that with me. So thank you. Yeah. So, you know, for you to post those opinions, we do appreciate that. They might not have been the popular or what was the norm. But, you know what, there's things that Ken and I don't necessarily think are popular that we don't agree with. So, you know, thank you for putting that out there for us. Yeah, you never go with the flow if that's not what you believe in. I just I'm a firm believer in that. You know, you got to you got to do what you got to do. Don't don't be influenced and and go against your true beliefs because you think that that's the way it sounds like a one to grow on. Like after school special here. Yeah. So, yeah, we'll we'll see what happens. We'll see how Munsters ends up on the hype train probably sooner than later. Right. Yeah. But you know what? I know I'm looking forward to you getting it. So me too, man. Me too. We'll play it up and see how it goes. Bill, are you ready to play a little drain it or save it? Absolutely. It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. You had shown me a picture of a machine that somebody had posted where it looked like it was reskinned or rethemed. It had a little nudity on it there. And then there are games like Playboy that have a little nudity in there, or they can. So, nudity and pinball machines, drain it or save it, Bill? Go ahead. I'm going to drain it for myself just because I wouldn't want someone to be offended by something they saw in my basement or not be able to enjoy the rest of the machines because they're worried about what their son or daughter might see in that. And I'm not trying to take away from people that might have machines that are re-skinned. No pun intended. Yeah, no pun intended. but are re-decaled in different artwork that might be a little more risque. God bless to you and your preference. It might be a harder sell on the secondhand market, but for me it's just not something I would jump into. Or even some of the alternate back glasses are pretty out there too. So you're draining nudity in pinball. I am draining full nudity. I'm going to save this, dude. I love nudity. and the fact that I love pinball and I love nudity, it doesn't get any better. I'm kidding, man. I'm kidding. I've got to drain that too, man. And it's just for my personal preference. I think you took the words out of my mouth. Like if you're going to have somebody come into your basement and whatever you choose to display in your basement is kind of a representation of yourself. Exactly, exactly. So and if it's in your opinion, not tasteful, then you absolutely don't want that. Now, that being said, again, there's a lot of nudity that's considered artistic and stuff. And I totally get it. And where I could probably appreciate that on a different plane or a different playing surface or a different level. Just probably not in pinball machines for me. So nudity and pinball, as appealing as that might be for some, I don't think less of you. It's just not for me. I'm going to drain the nudity in pinball, reluctantly. And it's just because we have families. And honestly, I think the boundary that I have is Baywatch. Anything more than brisket than Baywatch would probably be. Some weird stuff going on in the Baywatch DMV also. There is some questionable stuff. A little bit, just a bit outside. Just a little bit out there. Just a bit out there. So item number two in train it or save it, ball save timers in pinball machines. Like it. Save it. you know if you get there you go thank you bill if you get about here you know adam's family so if you get another ball a second ball in adam's family or the one that's at my house um you basically have the ball has to hit not a switch the whole way down for you to get a ball save and that sucks yeah especially if it goes right down the the center right off the bat so you know i i it doesn't necessarily have to be a you know two minute ball save but you know 10 or 15 seconds so You can at least get somewhere in the game. Yeah, so you're going to save ball saves. Yeah, me too. On Munsters, I'd be surprised if you don't put it on, in all honesty. Okay, so that's where I was going to go with this. I like the idea of a ball save. I don't like the idea of a 15-second ball save, but I do like the idea of knowing that if you plunge and off the plunge, because of some things that were completely uncontrollable by yourself, you house ball and you drain, I think that's cheap, and I think that's where the ball save's intended. to kind of say, hey, of no fault of your own, this machine drained the ball on you, so we're going to give you another shot. And it might drain it on you again, but you know what? The odds are with you that it won't happen. We tried. So for me, yeah, like a three- or four-second ball save, depending on how long a ball takes to drain and come out of the pops, I think you have to kind of be game-specific. On Munsters, I guess you just have to kind of see how it plays. I know Dwight specifically did not code that into Munsters, so it's intended to not have it on. I like to keep machines original so I will keep it off unless it gets out of hand then I can see myself enabling it but hey you know what thank goodness we have the options to enable and disable these ball saves but all in all I will save the ball save and topic number three on drain it or save it would be the discounted show game and that's something that we're seeing coming up more and more lately companies allowing people to take home new in box games that were played at pinball shows with a little bit of wear and tear and playability already done for you over the course of a two-, three-, four-day show. You get a discounted new-in box for allowing those games to be played on the floor. So discounted show games, Bill. Drain it or save it? I'll save it. I don't think it's necessarily a bad deal. I don't know if it's necessarily worthwhile advantageously for the discount per play, but that's not up for me to decide. That's for the person that's buying the machine. And, you know, some people don't mind a little shooter wear or, you know, a thousand plays on their game before they get it if they can save $500. So, yeah, I mean, $500 is pretty generous for a show discount. And I think you're seeing that now with Chicago Gaming on some of their Texas Pinball Festival pinball machines. I think typically you see that kind of in the $300 range. I guess I'm going to save these show special pins just because it does give somebody the option of having something that's just a few days unboxed and broken in. I think a couple advantages. One, price. You're getting a discount. Two, I'm assuming that if these games are going to be on the floor at these pinball shows and a company wants to have a positive experience from a player, they're going to make sure that they're set up properly. And if there are any issues that were happening out of the box, those have already been addressed. So I think for somebody that might be concerned about maybe not having to go in and tinker with the machine that really dial it in. A switch isn't right. Yeah, I think a show game is perfect for that. So, yeah, I'm going to save that, too. So to kind of cover it up here, do we agree on everything again this week? Yeah, we've got to stop talking. I think we had a difference last week. But, yeah, so nudity and pinball, we're both drained. Or nudity and pinball artwork. Yes. We are draining. Ball saver timers and discounted show games, we're both saving. So there you have it. All right, Bill, it's time for a pinball mystery. Now, what normally happens with the pinball mystery, this segment is something that's kind of perplexed us or puzzled us, a topic that we just can't wrap our hands around. We just can't understand why something is happening in pinball, right? Yep. We're going to switch it around this week, and we're going to go ahead and we're going to put the listeners into the pinball mystery because we have a pinball mystery for you. and the cool thing about it is we're tying it into our to our t-shirt sales so but this is going to be kind of a fun one because for anybody that's seen the special one lit pinball podcast t-shirts and i promise you we're not going to be pumping these t-shirts uh you know every single episode but we do want to thank everybody that has reached out and purchased one by the way oh man yeah i was going to get into that at the end of the show but we've we're almost half sold out of our initial stock which is shocking me but it's cool uh but but as a special easter egg we talked to brian Holderman, the artist. And there was an Easter egg that we put on the T-shirt. And it's not the S that he put in Special When Lit that was the same S that he used in his Silver Bullet re-theme. There's a whole other Easter egg on there. And it's kind of hiding in plain sight. And if you think you know what the Easter egg is and what it represents, if you can email us at special when lit pinball podcast at gmail.com and it's all one word it's not the special one lit it's not special one lit podcast it's we intentionally made that short and easy for you guys right the easiest letters special when lit pinball podcast at gmail.com uh let us know what the easter egg is because we haven't discussed it and it's there yep nobody's asked which i was a little bit surprised and let us know what it signifies and for all the correct answers we're going to put you guys in a pot and we are going to draw a name on the air and we're going to send you a t-shirt because at that point i think you deserve it that being said if you've already purchased the shirt and you also know the answer we're going to send you another shirt if you win the contest. So don't hold back from ordering a shirt because you can have two. And if you've already had a shirt, you didn't lose out because you're still involved in the contest. Twofer. So it's a very, I love this Easter egg. And I think when everybody sees and understands what that Easter egg is, you will have so much more of an appreciation for this shirt. I know it's hard to believe because it's already the most incredible pinball shirt of all time. Listen, that's like saying that my daughter's better than every other person's daughter. You can't say that. You know what? It's the hype train, man. I'm going to hype the shirt up because then somebody is going to pick a bunch of holes in the shirt and tell everybody how the code is lacking and how the art sucks. And then it's just going to be like a crappy shirt for a while. But the thing about the hype train is it comes back around because it's just on a big circle. I know. So ultimately it will end up as like an awesome shirt. Yeah, three months from now it's going to – the price of those shirts is going to be going up because it will be trending up. Well, and the other thing is this. We have the shirts now. They're shipping out on Wednesday and Thursday. So if you've ordered it, they're all in our possession. We're just, we're going to ship like Wednesdays or Thursdays. So you should have your shirt in a few days. They're in stock, man. So if you haven't figured it out or you haven't seen the shirt, you know, check out the website. And it's $29 shipped in the United States. For those international guys, I'm still looking into shipping, which makes the most sense for you guys. Because it doesn't make any sense to pay $30 shipping for a $29 shirt. So hang tight. And, you know, thank you everybody for the support. Again, we've almost sold out half the inventory like super, super quick. Yeah, thank you guys very much. That was really cool. So, all right, that's our pinball mystery. And now everybody's favorite part of the show, Bill, is when I stop talking for a while. And Bill jumps in? And you get on the Bill's Corner Whirlwind update. So, without further ado, I'm going to sip my drink and hope that my voice returns by next week. What's up with Whirlwind, buddy? Well, and for those of you out there that do have a sore throat, apple cider vinegar is an amazing trick. if you can stomach drinking it, which Ken cannot, so he will be. Hey, I'm back. I'm back, Bill. Thank you for that cabinet update. Yeah. So let's go into the closing. So, yeah, Whirlwind is getting closer. The cabinet, there's a couple items that need to be addressed. I think one connector in the backbox, one connector in the cabinet. I'm missing four carriage bolts, and then the cabinet's pretty much done. And actually over the weekend, I assembled all the pop bumpers on the play field, got those all installed, and got all the T-nuts installed and started actually taking the second harness that I had and screwing it down to its perspective positions where each individual lamp socket and assemblies went, which is kind of funny. So if I can give you a visual, when I pulled this thing out of the box, it was kind of like Christmas vacation where Clark hands Rusty the giant ball of Christmas lights. and I'm just like, geez, how am I going to untangle this? So I've got probably like 20 or so lights, maybe 30, that are bolted down in their perspective positions, which will get pulled up and changed some of the switches. And you've got a brand-new phone that's taken some high-quality pics that we can actually update to the Facebook page for this, right? We're trying. We're investing in the future. It's huge, man. So, yeah, so it's getting there. The assemblies were powder-coated, so if people look at it and they're like, why are the pop bumper assemblies blue? Well, it's not just the pop bumpers. It's a lot of the assemblies underneath, stuff inside of the backbox. So it's getting there. I'm still hoping for 4-20 or Easter. So, yeah, I think the plan, as long as I don't have any big hiccups, would be for whirlwind to be done um for easter because that's when we're having family over and i'd like my nieces and nephews to be able to play it okay can i ask you a question man yeah so how old are your nieces and nephews all right so my oldest niece just general range is and how many of you 14 12 okay 11 okay and nine okay so four uh all right so that's not bad i was thinking like you were going to have this pristine totally redone whirlwind that's going to be one of the nicest whirlwinds on the planet and then you're gonna just unleash a bunch of kids on it to spill drink start a bunch of four-player games and spill high sea juice boxes all over absolutely the glass is off your daughter's in the play field it's just that still drives you nuts doesn't it it just shocks me so maybe we'll have to i don't know why we'll have to post that picture on our page so you have to you have to post the picture of your daughter i i it doesn't drive me nuts it just it's listen so i my daughter loved it you know plunging the ball on wizard of oz yes on Wizard of Oz. When I first got it, I had the glass off, and she was playing it like a bagatelle, right? So she would pull the plunger back. Oh, God. The ball would launch, and then she would wait for the middle of the play field when the ball would pop out, catch it, and then start putting it down ramps. I see a piece of hair on the play field and I pulling my glass off and I like OCD about it You know what It still just a game and you got to play it man I know but it just like Listen she didn have her milk on there I was smart enough to take that off I kidding I kidding You had it in a sippy cup. It wasn't a sippy cup. No, I just... It was such a shocking picture to me because I know how... You are super anal about the quality of your work and what you're doing. I just... For me, it's like playfield glass constantly cleaning that off like fingerprints and stuff it drives me freaking nuts and then when i start getting like uh like dust or like those ball trails in the inlanes and the outlanes and like i'm you know i'm waxing that stuff off and i don't know to have a toddler in the playfield uh just stunned me a little bit it's not anything bad i still i still dude you're dad of the year well you're dad of the okay but let's be honest here though so this wizard of i don't plan on reselling i plan on playing didn't do any damage to the game i'm just it's just like listen i i plan on playing where i'm going with this playing the snot out of this game and i guarantee you that at some point i will be doing a playfield swap with how much i plan on keeping how long i plan on keeping this game right that's why i wanted a nice cabinet because i playfield swap is sucks playfield swap is like is my nightmare uh yeah it's not fun but right You know, building a cabinet and doing the playfield swap would suck. So, you know what? She puts a handprint on it. Who cares? You know, the only one that I don't like. Or like a body outline, like a chalk person after a crime just laid in there. I got the tornado mod, and the problem was that she started making snowmen on top of the playfield without glass on. Bill, what happened here? Why did she have these pinball rubbers all tangled in her hair? Yeah. It's like, oh, well, she was in the playfield. Yeah, she was just playing some pinball. You know what we can do is – I'd love at some point, if you're comfortable, sharing the picture because it is cool. It's just shocking. I like it, though. I will check with the wife. That concerns both of us. Right. I don't think it's a big deal. Maybe we can use the black bars over the eyes and stuff. Yeah. But then next week's Drain It or Save It, obviously, toddlers in your playfield would be like the first item, like Drain It or Save It. Well, I've got to save it because, you know. Oh, we'll just do it right now. But she's still, like I said, even now. Your daughter, she's cute, man. She's a beautiful little girl. I love that she's getting into pinball. That's the thing for us, right, getting these kids involved. Because I've got a four-year-old. My three-year-old just turned four. Yeah, but you love Deadpool. You like Deadpool. But I think you love it because your daughter, who was without Deadpool for two months, jumped back down here, got the multiball like it was nothing. My daughter's four. She can start the game. She knows how to start the little Deadpool multiball. And then she went into a villain mode and knocked out a villain mode the other day. And I know a lot of it's just kind of luck, but, like, she's not double flipping anymore. She's four. And she's, you know, she's not cradling balls or tap passing yet. I don't know why. But she knows she's learning a rule set of pinball, and she can come down and she can effectively do it. That's why I love that pinball machine so much. Yep. And I think I shared the story when I went into Stern. I shared that story with Tanio Klyce Kleiss and George Gomez. And they thought it was pretty cool, right, because it's just, like, one of those things where it's like, all right, Well, maybe there is going to be interest down the road for us, you know, 30s and 40-year-old guys that have these kids. Passing the torch down. Yeah. The thing is, like my other kids, I kind of forced the issue when I bought the machines originally. Get down here. We're going to play pinball. Now they don't want to play as much. Until I sell a game, then they're all depressed. Well, yeah, but your son really liked playing the Deadpool. So, I mean, he was happy to bring it down. Yeah. It's just they know not to get too attached to anything at this point because it's in. And what would you say for me? Because, I mean, you've helped move probably 85% to 90% of the pins that have been up and down this basement stairwell with two landings over the last, I don't know, year. Pinball lottery with Ken is when he doesn't ask you for help moving a game. Just to let you guys know. But go ahead. You're right, man. You're right. But, I mean, average game is probably here three, four weeks. I was going to say three months. That's a lifespan. Oh, three months. If you were at the 90-day mark, that was a successful pin. Whoever manufactured that pin, coded that pin, put artwork on that pin, and designed that pin, success in my book. That's three months. That's a long time. Quarter of the year. Yeah. Well, here, you had Baywatch for three months, I think. Well, I had a couple of Baywatches. Well, yeah, but the one that actually came in the basement. Yeah. I don't know. We've gone through this. It's just my thing. I like to change things out, and I think I find myself trying to find pins that our pinball group find interesting more than what I find interesting, if that makes any sense. I love to entertain, so when I have people over, I think to myself, what is going to appeal to the group of people that are coming to my home? I am hosting, and Deadpool is one of those pins where if everybody in the pinball group hated it, I would normally just get it out the door. But I'm going to stay with this one because I really, really like it. Now, luckily for me, everybody in the pinball group doesn't hate Deadpool. And there are some people on other shows that are starting to like Deadpool. So if I can do anything, I'm going to put on my Deadpool hat, and I'm going to drive the hype train for Deadpool either up the mountain or off the cliff. But I'm the damn engineer, man, and I'm going down with the ship. That's awesome. And all the people that aren't on the Deadpool, they're tied to the tracks. Yes, yes, yes. And Ken's right behind the wheel. So we got Whirlwind probably, you're hoping, flippable around Easter of 2019. That's huge, man. Yeah, that's the goal, I'm hoping, because there's other projects that have got to get done this year. So right before we started the show, Bill, I had a Facebook Messenger that came through. Like, bing! I want to read this to you because I think it's funny. And this guy's name is Northern Dude. It's user Northern Dude on Pinside. And his name's Kevin, and he says this. He goes, this is quote-unquote, good evening. I just wanted to let you know that I listened to my very first podcast ever Not pinball podcast ever but first podcast and pinball podcast and it was special when lit episode number 39 Enjoyed it. Thanks. So like my I first of all, I was like, that's awesome And then I wasn't sure if I was supposed to apologize to him or if I should say, uh, you know, thank you So I I did thank him and it was really really cool. And uh, I just appreciated that he kind of shared it with us. I said, hey, man, I go, how did you find us? Do you mind me asking? I'm just curious. And he's like, this is the best story. He's like, you know what, man? He's like, I went on Spotify, I typed in Pinball Podcast, and your logo won the contest. So, hey, Kevin, thanks, man. We might not be the best podcast, but for one person, we have good artwork on our logo. The market research of the colors of the logo attracted Kevin, so I appreciate it, man. And, you know, I reached out to him and said, hey, let me know what your likes and dislikes are because maybe I can kind of gear you towards some episodes that we've done. And he's like, you know what? He's like, I already listened to 38 and 37, and I'm going to be starting back at episode one. And I was like, oh, man, if you can rough it out from episode one, like I bow down to you, buddy. But, you know, interact with the show and contact us because we love to hear stories. We like to know what everybody's doing. That's the thing, guys. If you reach out to us and send us a message, we're right back at you, man. We love everybody that listens, and it's just fun for us to have a banter with everybody. Yeah, we like engaging with people, whether they're the same opinions that we have or not. It doesn't matter. Everyone can coexist without prejudice. We all have opinions. But, yeah, just the banter back and forth between the listeners and ourselves is, you know, what fuels a lot of our good times with this, in all honesty. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's exactly what we want. We just want this podcast to be, you know, it's one thing to get the news, and there are podcasts that do the news unbelievably well. This Week in Pinball, again, Jeff Patterson runs that website. Zach hosts that podcast. It's killer for information, and it's kind of a one-stop shop. I think it's fun for us to share our insight on what's happening within the news. But I think kind of our bread and butter, other than our interviews and sharing some stories, is just kind of sharing our stories and our interaction in pinball. And that's kind of where we're at. So it's been a fun ride. And at 40 episodes, I'm shocked, man. I didn't think this would go to 40 necessarily. But I don't know. I guess I'm not totally surprised. But it's fun that we've gained the listenership that we have. Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thank you, everybody, for listening and supporting us. And can't wait to see what happens. And as a special thank you, we're going to try to guilt you into buying a $29 T-shirt. I'm kidding. And for all you people in Australia, you know, shipping is just $75 U.S. $75 plus shipping. For those people just a bit outside of the U.S. $74, $75, whatever it takes. Please contact us for a special shipping quote. Right. Special and shipped. And don't worry. We'll podcast shipping. We're going to send that with a Men at Work CD. Right. We're going to throw like a Men at Work CD. We can't send the whole CD. We're just going to send you one track, and that's going to be Do You Come From a Land Down Under. I used to work at Montgomery Ward Electric Avenue, and we got like these CDs that we could use as demos. I've got like boxes of Jessica Simpson's, I forget the single, boxes of them, like sealed Factory sealed. I think we should just start shipping the Jessica Simpson CDs with the T-shirts. I need to get rid of them, man. I feel bad throwing them out, but what am I going to do with them? I bet you there's a part of the audience that doesn't even know what a CD is. You know what? Give it to your kids and give them a history lesson. They're great coasters. They are great coasters and a great story. It is a great story. In our day, if you scratch this sucker, your song skipped. Right. So it's like the special 29-dollar T-shirt. Act now that Chinese pearls are free and a Jessica Simpson single included. call now uh inside of the box you find nothing so that's going to be episode number 40 of special wind lip pinball podcast we appreciate everybody for listening and sticking it out this long um we do have another interview that's going to be coming up and that's going to be in early march we've got ed robertson of bare naked ladies who will be on the show uh i think the approach with that is just kind of a general interview because i do consider him like a pinball ambassador yep um He's somebody that's got a following, and pinball is a passion of his. So I want to ask him some questions, but I also want to just talk to him about having guest host the show, talking about what's going on in current affairs of pinball. So for those of you that are fans of Ed Robertson of Bare Naked Ladies, that should be, I think, our next interview that will be here in the next week or two. If you want to get a hold of us at Special Wendland Pinball Podcast, you can reach us easily by email, and that's SpecialWendlandPinballPodcast at gmail.com. or you can just jump on our Facebook page. And I'll tell you what, the Facebook page is growing and growing and growing. I think we've got like 350 to 400 followers at this point. And it's a real fun way for all of us to kind of interact in a cool little forum environment. And you can go on Facebook, Special Wind Lit Pinball Podcast, and you can find us there. Again, T-shirts are still available. If you'd like to pick one up, $29 shipped. Helps support the show in regards to recouping some of our costs for the podcast gear and our streaming gear. Streaming channel is going to be right around the corner. We've got huge announcements involving that. Scott from PIN Stadium is sponsoring the streaming channel. We've got a huge, huge, huge announcement to make in regards to that. I also wanted to thank Rob and Kim over at LearnMods.com for sponsoring our Drain It or Save It segment. Guys, if you're looking for any type of lighting or mods for your play field, your pinball machine, just check out LearnMods.com. It's L-E-R-M-O-D-S. great service great quality check them out so you got anything else bill before we shut this one down uh i think that's about it for episode 40 uh cancer sucks you know that's a i think a thing that everyone in the pinball community can get behind what's up with cancer lately man i it seems like it's affecting more and more i mean we're getting older but i mean we're not we're not terribly old so it i agree you know uh thoughts and prayers out to anybody that's suffering with cancer or has been affected by somebody that's suffering or somebody that's passed. And friends and family that are helping people with that disease through it. Yeah, and that's a special call out. We've got a lot of people in our hearts and in our minds right now that are dealing with situations. So it does. It does suck. I hope at one point we can not just try to manage it, but cure it. Not to get too personal, but both my parents have passed from that and grandma, so I'm a little more invested in that than some might be. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, man. It all affects us differently. It does. Well, nothing like closing the show out on a high note, man. Hey, you know what? For all the people that are fighting the good fight, that are battling through things and making it through. And it doesn't have to be cancer. It can be anything, any type of setbacks. We've had some remarkable stories on this show, people that have been dealt setbacks that have persevered. So, you know, don't give up the hope. Keep it going. We're in your corner, right? Yep. Keep the hope alive and keep driving the hype train. For Bill Webb, I am Ken Cromwell. And I am Bill Webb. And I am Ken Cromwell. And I am still Bill Webb. And I screwed that right up. I love it, though. We're going to keep it in. All right. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.