#17 - Mixed Stern Pinball Infinity Quest Reveal Feelings, The Sequel

A Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·33m 4s·analyzed·Sep 15, 2020

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Host argues Stern's weak reveal marketing creates vulnerability for competitors to capture broader audiences.

Summary

The host discusses the overwhelmingly positive reception to his previous episode criticizing Stern Pinball's Avengers: Infinity Quest reveal event. He argues that product reveals are hero content designed to reach broader audiences, but Stern's approach caters only to hardcore pinball fans, missing growth opportunities. Using marketing strategy frameworks (the 3H model: Hero, Hub, Hygiene), he contends that competitors could leapfrog Stern in marketing effectiveness by executing professional reveals, fundamentally reshaping the competitive landscape.

Key Claims

Out of 150-200+ messages received, only 2 people disagreed with his Infinity Quest reveal criticism
high confidence · Host directly reporting his own communication volume and response distribution
Product reveals should be treated as hero content designed to reach the broadest possible audience, not just core fans
high confidence · Host explaining YouTube's 3H marketing strategy and applying it directly to pinball industry reveals
A dealer lost six premium orders ($40,000+ in revenue) immediately following the Infinity Quest reveal
medium confidence · Host reporting conversation with a dealer/distributor; specific financial impact cited but dealer not named
Stern's reveal was designed for pinball-only audiences, not to reach broader consumer bases
medium confidence · Host's interpretation of reveal messaging and intent; acknowledged as opinion/assumption
Pinball machines cost nearly $1 million and take a year to develop
medium confidence · Host citing an article he read; attributes quote to unknown source in Deep Root's messaging
The first company to execute professional reveals reaching broader audiences could theoretically leapfrog Stern's marketing effectiveness within 1-2 months
medium confidence · Host's opinion on competitive dynamics; prediction based on marketing strategy framework
Jack Danger performed better as a reveal personality on Marvel's event than in Stern's Infinity Quest reveal
medium confidence · Host's observation from partial viewing; subjective assessment of Danger's presentation style
Stern's greatest weakness is reaching new audiences with product reveals, despite strong marketing elsewhere
high confidence · Host positioning this as explicitly stated on Eclectic Gamers podcast previously

Notable Quotes

“I firmly believe Stern Pinball can utilize Jack Danger, can utilize Deadflip, can utilize Keith Elwin, and can utilize Raymond Davidson better. I believe that can be done.”
Host (Travis/Marv Loco) @ ~5:30 — Core thesis: Stern has talented personnel but isn't leveraging them effectively in reveal strategy
“Product reveals just aren't a priority in their marketing. I think it's simple as that.”
Host @ ~12:15 — Central claim about Stern's strategic priorities; suggests intentional choice rather than incompetence
“One viral video away from being completely relevant to the conversation. Now, obviously they have to follow that up. You can't just rely on that, but the way that this works, they are, the niche is so small that one viral video automatically makes it to where that brand is more relevant to new people than what any other brand that's currently in the industry is.”
Host @ ~24:30 — Identifies vulnerability: smaller niche makes marketing execution disproportionately powerful for competitors
“You're either the gazelle or the lion. And if you do gazelle type things, somebody else will do lion type things. And you will give up ground to somebody.”
Host @ ~48:00 — Predicts Stern must respond or lose market position to more aggressive competitors
“The best way to really get these reveals out is you want to explain it like we're five. Keep it so simple because your diehards will still be there.”
Host @ ~36:45 — Actionable criticism: recommends simplifying reveal messaging for accessibility to non-enthusiasts
“I'm aware that companies are listening, and I appreciate it, guys. I appreciate it. Not a flex. I seriously do appreciate it.”
Host @ ~29:00 — Acknowledges manufacturer awareness of podcast content and influence on industry decision-making
“These pinball machines take nearly a year to develop, a million dollars. So why would you not make sure that opening night that everybody can see it? Like, why would you not want to make sure everybody sees it in the best light possible?”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyAvengers: Infinity QuestgameJack Dangerperson Keith Elwinperson Raymond DavidsonpersonDeadfliporganizationDeep Root Pinballcompany Jersey Jack Pinball

Signals

?
business_signal: Dealer reported losing six premium orders ($40,000+ revenue) immediately after Infinity Quest reveal; inventory management burden of unsold stock
medium · Host citing confidential conversation with dealer/distributor who noted direct financial impact; concern about stuck inventory and resale costs
?
business_signal: Stern's dominant market position and brand recognition mean poor reveal marketing doesn't immediately threaten core sales (LEs will sell out regardless), but creates long-term vulnerability if competitors execute better Hub/Hero content strategy
medium · Host notes 'LEs will sell out no matter what' due to brand power, but Premium and Pro tiers are vulnerable to dealer/distributor impact; analogy to Blockbuster/Toys R Us market failures
?
community_signal: Overwhelming community response to host's criticism (150-200+ messages, ~98% agreement) indicates latent dissatisfaction with Stern's reveal approach across dealer, casual, and non-pinball audiences
high · Host reports phone calls, texts, Facebook messages, emails, YouTube comments from dealers, fans, tournament players, and non-pinball people expressing agreement with concerns
?
competitive_signal: Stern's weak point in product reveal marketing creates immediate vulnerability for competitors to leapfrog with professional execution; single viral video could significantly shift market perception
medium · Host argues first company executing professional reveals reaching broader audiences could theoretically become 'second best' at reveals within 1-2 months; Dollar Shave Club case study of $4.5K video going viral leading to $1B acquisition
?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.099

0:00

Welcome back everybody to another episode of A Pinball Podcast. I appreciate you guys being here. Thank you guys so much for listening and let's get right to it. So I am trying to get over a cold still a little bit, but I have my vocals as warmed up as they can possibly get. So if I sniffle or have a random cough or something like that, I apologize ahead of time. And also we got to get this out of the way. Zach Minney about two weeks ago announced a giveaway on the podcast that we did together and I do have the two winners here finally for the Stern glass covers so those winners are Christopher Doyle and Jay Sellers so congratulations fellas what you need to do is contact Zach at FlippinOutPenball.com and he'll get you hooked up with all the details so again congratulations enjoy your penball machines being dust free as long as you remember to put your covers on there So moving on.

0:58

Yeah, so not much has happened, right? The past 48 to 78 or 100 hours or whatever it could be. So as of right now, it is Saturday, September 12th. And it's been an interesting past few days for sure. Obviously, I did a podcast just the other day talking about my mixed feelings on the reveal for Avengers Infinity Quest. And needless to say, I was absolutely floored by the amount of response that I got from that. And I'm not even joking, if I combine up phone calls, text messages, Facebook messages, emails, direct comments on the YouTube video itself, I had well in excess of 150, possibly even over 200. It got crazy there for a little while. And honestly, it was, I was wondering how many people would agree with the assessment because I was very upfront that these are just my thoughts and doesn't make them right. And I still believe it doesn't necessarily make it right. It's just what I think would work best. And it turns out about 90, I mean, the vast majority, it's, I maybe had two people out of all those messages disagree, not even joking. And it just, I was overwhelmed by it. And, you know, I would like to be upfront and touch base a little bit. Like the one thing that I want to be crystal clear with everybody is any criticism that I give, it is said with the utmost respect. And I also want to be clear that the criticism that I'm giving is exclusively about Stern and how they're doing their reveal event, right? I never want to go and talk about somebody else's personal content and bag on that. Like, that's why I'm not all about, if this was a dead flip stream and that's all it was, I have absolutely no place that it'd make me the biggest a-hole in the world to just talk about that. Cause that's his content. And I totally respect that. I think he does a lot of great things for pinball. And it doesn't mean that I agree with all of it, you know, and the way that I am is I like hearing different points of view. If you notice, if you're listening to this on audio and you haven't seen my YouTube channel, if you go to my YouTube channel at Marv Loco, you'll see, I try to reply to every single message and I try to heart every message that I can. The reason why I do that isn't because I agree with what somebody is saying in there. I heart it because I'm acknowledging that I'm listening and I'm actively thinking about what you're saying. And that's the way I operate. I want to hear what people have to say. And I don't want to dismiss what people are thinking or what they feel. I always have empathy for that. So to be upfront, all my criticisms are specifically about the Stern reveal and anybody that has to do with that reveal. That's where I'm at on it. So if somebody can't separate that, I do apologize. But that's where I'm at, and I won't change. I will not change that about it. Because the same way with my content, if somebody criticizes it, I take it all in. I honestly, I am one of the few people probably in this world that is not affected by criticism. And I say that as like the biggest humble brag in the world, but you guys got to understand. I grew up with a Native American father that was hardcore about sports and discipline. And I heard it all the time. And I grew such thick skin. But I also learned to be very empathetic. And I learned to really take in what somebody says and think about it in a way that helps me. And that's the way that I operate personally. That's just me. Everybody else operates a different way. And they're free to do that. But again, just to be clear, this is all about Stern's Reveal. And obviously, a lot of other people have talked about it, whether it's online, whether it's people that have talked to me directly. I'm sure by the time this gets out, and I plan on putting this out either Monday or maybe even Tuesday, which is the 14th or the 15th, I'm sure other people will have different opinions on it, possibly, good or bad. I mean, that's the way these things go. A reveal event, especially when you're putting out a product, it's going to have people's attention. And it's going to get attention in which we're either going to be accepting of it or we're not. Or there might be some people that are just like, eh, about it. You know, that's all part of it. But I do, I firmly believe, I am in the camp that I believe Stern Pinball can utilize Jack Danger, can utilize Deadflip, can utilize Keith Elwin, and can utilize Raymond Davidson better. I believe that can be done. I firmly do. All the elements are there, and I talked about this too during the live stream of Marvel's event where Jack was actually on there, and I thought he did a great job. I was telling everybody on the live chat, I thought he was doing so much better right here. I like this version of it. now was it perfect no nothing's perfect but i like this version that he's the way he's explaining things the way he's given hints and tips like those things work to me that works that's where a personality can really shine through when you're focused on those things now i didn't get to catch the whole thing because i was busy talking but the parts i did catch i like that you know i that's just how it was now moving forward i think it's important to really understand why the reveals are happening the way that they happen, right? And we need to be really clear and upfront that I believe that the way that Stern does their marketing overall is really outstanding. There's a reason why they're the number one company in the world. Now, there's obviously going to be various reasons, but let's face facts. They do a bunch of press releases, right? They have a circuit tournament, the Stern Pro Circuit, that gets attention. They have launch events, which gets attention. They have the insider access stuff and they have their whole stern army. Like they have things put together. You see things go out on Facebook at times. I'm sure their Instagram account is fairly active. I'm not active on Instagram hardly, so I couldn't really tell you, but you know, there's different ways that they do really well on their marketing. And what I think that this product reveal really tells is that product reveals just aren't a priority in their marketing. I think it's simple as that because I don't believe for a second that the people that are in charge of making sure that they are marketing and getting this pinball machine to different audiences. I don believe for a second that these people are dumb I think they all highly intelligent Therefore the conclusion I really have to draw after looking at the whole scope I just don think a product reveal is their priority Now, for me, that's really interesting. I find it very fascinating that that seems to be the case. And again, I'm making an assumption. I haven't heard from them. I haven't. I heard from all kinds of people. I heard from dealers. I heard from fans. I heard from tournament players. heard from non-pinball people, like legitimately people had never even bought a machine before and only played maybe once or twice were contacting me like this. People are aware of this product, you know, and so it's a, it's really, it's a unique time, but I find this really fascinating because this is a, this is the one thing, right? Stern dominates on a lot of fronts. They dominate with themes, which will sell. They dominate with their production velocity, which means that they are getting products out to customers quickly, right? So they can stay relevant very much easier than any other company. They can totally stay relevant. But what I find very fascinating about it is that when you take those things into consideration, a new company won't be able to beat them on that home front or on that front immediately. They just won't. That takes years to catch up, years. But the one thing that these companies can catch up on immediately is how they do their marketing online and how they connect with their customers online. How do they do reveal events online? And it's 2020, guys, it's 2020. I had a couple of people questioning me in private chats and we were talking back and forth. they're like, you know, Travis, do you really think it's that big a deal and online reveal this and that, you know, I mean, do people really care? And I'm like, you're talking to me online right now. Like that's where a lot of the ecosystem of consumers are. So yes, it is very important. And legitimately, I truly believe that either Deep Root, American Pinball, Jersey Jack, any of them that are putting out pinball machines that, and yeah, of course, Deep Root hasn't done it yet, but they're supposed to pretty soon. But anybody that's put out a pinball machine, they are legitimately one viral video away from being completely relevant to the conversation. Now, obviously they have to follow that up. You can't just rely on that, but the way that this works, they are, the niche is so small that one viral video automatically makes it to where that brand is more relevant to new people than what any other brand that's currently in the industry is. I mean, that's just a fact. A prime example of this is the Dollar Shave Club. Prime example. If you haven't heard of Dollar Shave Club, legitimately, it was around 2012 12 or 13. I forget. It was early, right around there. They did a video, right? That only cost $4,500 and it went like bonkers viral. And this is just about selling blades for a dollar that comes to your home. And this all originated from being worth like 250,000 units or something like that from China that they had to figure out a way to sell. And they became instantly relevant to the conversation against all the big dogs. And that whole company within five years or so ends up selling for a billion dollars. All that over a 90 second spot. That's how powerful this is. Now, that's not to say all these other companies are going to all of a sudden do that. No, it's not exact science, but that's to give you an idea. There's different ceilings to this. You know, obviously the consumer base for razors is much higher than the consumer base for pinball. But we might have put an artificial ceiling what we think the consumer is. And that's why I've always preached. You have to go beyond that. And I think that that's that's a great example. So I'll link that down below for the people that haven't seen it yet. But it's you'll see once you watch it, you kind of realize right now or you'll realize immediately how they were able to talk to their target audience. audience so efficiently. And, you know, I'm not even going to go over the reveal again. I mean, I'm sure at this point it's been beat to death. I just, I know that these things can be better. And I know that some people may not think it matters. I'm here to say it does matter. And, you know, here's why it matters. Stern is going to be able to put out their machines regardless, right? They've done a great job. They've earned that. They've earned that. They've earned being able to do the things that they do. And it doesn't necessarily have to be perfect because even if it's not perfect, it won't hurt them. It won't. There's nobody challenging them yet. And I said that in the last podcast, and there has to be somebody to actually enter the arena of the challenge. Now there is that vulnerability where somebody could challenge, but it does hurt the people down the supply chain. It does hurt the dealers. Let's not kid ourselves right now. Even if we think, we say, oh, well, there won't be, they won't lose. The LEs, they will sell out. Let's just be upfront. LEs will sell out no matter what. My kid could go on there and he would sell 500 L1 LEs. That's just the star power he has with the community overall. That just will happen. But now if we're talking about the premiums and the pros, I had a talk with several different dealers and distributors. And, you know, they were talking to me back and forth about, you know, how things kind of go, how they wish things would be. And, you know, without going into too much detail, there was one in particular. And this, I'm not even going to get emotional about it, but it struck a chord with me because I've had to go through business before. There's a reason why I'm able to have these pinball machines. It's a lot of endless nights, a lot of not having sleep and making decisions day by day to try to make the income, to keep the lights on, to try to achieve a certain level of success. And I don't doubt in my mind for a second that these dealers and these distributors are doing the same thing. And one in particular, they noted to me, they said it hit them hard. They lost six premium orders just in that day. That's over $40,000 in revenue gone instantly. Right. And that's still product that they have because they've, they have, I mean, if you've already got the product or you're planning on getting the product, I didn't ask him, how does your whole thing work? Because I quite frankly don't know, but thinking about it, how I used to have to do it. if I don't sell a product, I've still had to spend wholesale on that because I'm not drop shipping. I still have my allotment that I had to get from these major manufacturers. And if I don't sell, guess what? I'm with stuck inventory. It's dead inventory. And that sucks. That sucks so bad because now I have to take the time and spend more money on resources trying to get this sold to somebody. Like, you see what I mean? So it's not so much of like, well, it doesn't matter. It does matter. For the person that's counting on this, it matters to them. And I know that feeling. Like if I sound like I'm getting a little fired up or if I sound like I'm getting too emotionally invested in this, it's just because I've been there before. I have been there before, and I know what it's like to be in that spot, and it sucks. Plain and simple, it sucks. But I digress. Just moving forward, I think things will change. I really do.