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Episode 127 - Slo Mo Cyberpunk

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·48m 15s·analyzed·Nov 2, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Spooky plans TNA 2.0; JJP's influencer marketing praised; Cyberpunk delays again amid crunch controversy.

Summary

Eclectic Gamers discusses pinball and video game news: Spooky Pinball's Charlie Emery confirms plans for Total Nuclear Annihilation 2.0 with improvements; Jersey Jack Pinball marketing success is highlighted via a Slow Mo Guys collaboration featuring Willy Wonka pinball to 13.9M subscribers; CD Projekt Red's Cyberpunk 2077 faces another delay despite claiming the game was 'gold,' with CEO crunch comments sparking internal backlash and a 25% stock decline.

Key Claims

  • Charlie Emery confirmed Spooky Pinball is planning TNA 2.0 with improvements beyond layout changes

    high confidence · Dennis heard this on Super Awesome Pinball Show interview with Charlie Emery and is reporting it as confirmation

  • Jersey Jack Pinball approached the Slow Mo Guys about featuring a pinball machine

    high confidence · Dennis states 'Jersey Jack approached slow-mo guys about this' based on confirmed reporting

  • The Slow Mo Guys Willy Wonka pinball video received 290,000 views as of the morning of this episode

    high confidence · Dennis checked the video earlier that morning and confirms the view count

  • The Slow Mo Guys have 13.9 million YouTube subscribers

    high confidence · Dennis cites this figure directly when discussing their reach as an influencer channel

  • CD Projekt Red announced another delay for Cyberpunk 2077 after claiming the game went gold and delays were finished

    high confidence · Tony discusses the announcement and the contradiction between their promises and the new delay

  • CD Projekt Red's stock price fell 25% since the announcement of the last delay

    high confidence · Dennis states this figure based on reported market data

  • Original TNA sold for approximately $6,000 new and was priced at $5,500 on the used market initially

    medium confidence · Dennis reports his own market observation from when he purchased his TNA in February 2019

Notable Quotes

  • “This is what winning looks like. This is what winning is.”

    Dennis (host) @ ~32:00 — Strong endorsement of Jersey Jack's influencer marketing strategy; direct call-out to Stern to follow their example

  • “Stern, are you listening? Are you watching this? This is what winning looks like.”

    Dennis @ ~31:45 — Emphasizes that Jersey Jack's approach is a marketing benchmark for the entire industry

  • “They are playing the influencer game the best of anybody in pinball by leaps and bounds.”

    Dennis @ ~32:20 — Quantifies Jersey Jack's competitive advantage in marketing relative to other manufacturers

  • “I didn't want to comment on it, but I still did. And I did it in a demeaning and harmful way.”

    CD Projekt Red CEO Adam Kikinski (via email quoted by Tony) @ ~48:30 — Shows internal acknowledgment of poor crisis communication; illustrates reputational damage from crunch downplaying

  • “The whole time I'm sitting here thinking I want to buy a pinball machine.”

    YouTube commenter (quoted by Dennis) @ ~31:00 — Evidence that influencer marketing is converting new audiences to pinball interest

  • “They know the recipe that works. Get a really good theme, lean into your limited nature, and sell them all right away.”

    Tony @ ~15:45 — Analysis of Spooky's successful business model with limited edition games

Entities

Charlie EmerypersonScott DanesipersonSpooky PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyTotal Nuclear AnnihilationgameWilly Wonka and the Chocolate FactorygameThe Slow Mo GuysorganizationStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: CD Projekt Red CEO made public crunch minimization comments ('not that bad and never was') that contradicted developer experience and internal feedback, forcing apologetic email retraction and damaging credibility

    high · Tony quotes CEO: 'Regarding crunch, actually it's not that bad and never was' followed by leaked apology email: 'I did it in a demeaning and harmful way' and 'It was utterly bad'

  • ?

    business_signal: CD Projekt Red stock price dropped 25% following Cyberpunk 2077 delay announcement despite prior assurances game was complete ('gone gold'); indicates severe market confidence loss

    high · Dennis: 'In august cd project red share price was at an all-time high and it has fallen 25 percent that's massive' and 'They were on social media sharing that, yeah, no, the game's gone gold'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pinball community viewing Jersey Jack's marketing execution (Slow Mo Guys, Guns N' Roses launch) as industry gold standard; implicit criticism of Stern Pinball's passive approach

    high · Dennis directly to audience: 'Stern, are you listening? Are you watching this? This is what winning looks like' and 'They are playing the influencer game the best of anybody in pinball by leaps and bounds'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball's integrated marketing strategy (influencer outreach, major IP launches) positioning them as industry leader; competitors like Stern perceived as falling behind in audience acquisition

    high · Dennis: 'I like what Jersey Jack has done lately... Now this, I'm really happy with... they are playing the influencer game the best of anybody in pinball by leaps and bounds'

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.145

0:00
Howdy folks, Generic Cowboy here, telling you that this episode of the Eclectic Gamers Podcast is brought to you by the Roanoke Pinball Museum in Roanoke, Virginia. Roanoke Pinball Museum, it's an interactive museum, it's sort of dedicated to the science and the history of pinball. It's mission is to cultivate curiosity in science, art, and history through pinball, but while preserving and honoring its role in American culture. The museum is open every day except Monday, and it houses over 65 machines with models ranging from 1932 to 2018. I sure hope to have a buckaroo. Roanoke Pinball Museum, your world of entertainment awaits.
0:52
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, November 1st. Pay your rent. Actually, it's probably late by the time you've heard this. Episode 127 on Tony. I'm Dennis, and yes, make sure your rent was paid on time. You don't want to be thrown out in the cold in November. Yeah, that is the wrong time of year to get thrown out. Yes.
1:15
Well, unfortunately, it's also the wrong time of the year for much in the way of news, though, I think we're going to have a good juicy video game topic coming up here in a little bit. I don't know if good is the word I'd put it. Good isn't deliciously evil. Juicy works.
1:29
Speaking of juice, what's been going on, Tony? For those that don't know, Tony and I have been talking about for the last ten minutes what's been going on, and we're not going to share all of that because it's not happy. Yeah. It's just depressing. That's right. And we're here to bring levity to your lives. that I'm getting tired of every opening being, man, work's been a real pain. So what has been happening? Do you play any games? Read any books? I did. I finished The Shining, and I've been started the unknown to me until I finished The Shining that there's a sequel to The Shining called Dr. Sleep. So I started that. I've never heard of that until you told me. I'm just starting it. It's definitely, you're just super happy.
Rick and Morty
game
Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castlegame
CD Projekt Redcompany
Adam Kikinskiperson
Cyberpunk 2077game
Dennisperson
Tonyperson
Zach Minneyperson
The Super Awesome Pinball Showorganization
Guns N' Rosesgame

market_signal: TNA secondary market pricing has recovered since initial depreciation; machines now selling $5,750-$7,000 range on used market, suggesting renewed demand and potential business viability for TNA 2.0

medium · Dennis: 'TNAs were trending at about $5,500' previously; 'I'm looking at the archive on Pinside now, and apparently that is not the case anymore. It seems like the games are running about, on the low end, like $57.50 all the way up to $7,000'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball successfully leveraging influencer marketing through Slow Mo Guys platform (13.9M subscribers) to reach non-pinhead audiences; Willy Wonka pinball video achieved 290K views and generated viewer comments expressing purchase intent

    high · Dennis: 'This is what winning looks like' and analysis of how small percentage conversion from 13.9M audience yields new customers; YouTube comments quoted showing purchase interest generation

  • ?

    community_signal: Spooky Pinball planning designer rotation with 'new designer' for post-Rick and Morty project while maintaining TNA 2.0 as interim production filler

    medium · Dennis speculates: 'I think they're unveiling a new designer for the next game' based on timeline analysis; TNA 2.0 fills factory gap during design phase transition

  • ?

    announcement: Total Nuclear Annihilation 2.0 officially confirmed by Spooky Pinball CEO Charlie Emery on Super Awesome Pinball Show; improvements beyond layout changes planned; pricing expected to increase from original $6,000 MSRP

    high · Dennis: 'Charlie did say he reconfirmed. They are fully planning to do what he called TNA 2.0' with 'changes' and 'additions' but 'still going to TNA' and will 'cost more money'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Cyberpunk 2077 delayed again (to December) despite developer assurances that crunch was finished and game was 'gold'; current-gen console optimization issues cited as reason; will miss Game of the Year eligibility window

    high · Tony: 'They had a post out. They were on social media sharing that, yeah, no, the game's gone gold. We're going... they announced a delay' and 'a lot of game reviewers have a hard cutoff of December 1'

    • 2:18
    go lucky follow up to such a happy, happy book. Like as the shining, I mean, it's all rainbows and unicorns and happiness. Uh, yes, you've convinced me 2020 might be the wrong year to be reading these books, but, uh, that's why I haven't reread the stand this year. Don't watch the mini series when it comes out next month because the new mini series, new mini series, or it's a new, limited series that's going to be coming out. CBS has it. So it's going to be on there. CBS All Access.
    2:56
    Every channel has to have their own darn web thing. Yeah. So it's just... Yeah, there's bells in the background because there's a bunny or a squirrel or something and the dog's being a pain in the tuchus because of it. Squirrel? Or it could be the skunk that we have nearby. that sprayed somewhere and it didn't smell like skunk. It smelled like skunk or mixed with something else and it was weird. But it started coming through the heater vents in the house and it woke the dog up and it freaked us out. So yesterday morning at four in the morning we're sitting out front with a fire truck here as they go through the house with the sniffer just to make sure we don't have a gas leak. so but it was just fake skunk it was just skunk which I mean that's good like I told you it's great it's better than the option or the alternative I wasn't going to sit here and just go oh it's probably just a skunk and then go to sleep with my family and have us obliterated in a fireball I did have a gas leak once which to me it didn't smell like gas and I had a housemate at the time who went outside and said uh dennis this smells like uh this smells like natural gas i was like okay so i called them and then yeah it actually there was the line outside near where the air conditioning unit is outside of the house so you could smell it kind of near the kitchen but it wasn't leaking inside so that's why it was sort of intermittent really weird they had to run a temp line out and it was the winter so the temp line was there all like all winter because they couldn't dig in the dirt yeah no i said it was just one of those things, so that was yesterday. Yay! Yay, fun. But yeah, no, otherwise, I've just been, I've done that. I started reading, well, I started listening to, in audiobooks, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, which is a translation of a Japanese light novel, sci-fi novel that's real well-known. And then I realized that, hey, there's eight of these novels and only four have been done in audiobook form. So I abandoned that. I'm going to read those next. I'm going to actually read them. But it was really good. So I've seen the anime and the books were better. Surprise. It's just like anything else. The books are almost always better because they cover so much more than you can in a movie or a TV series or anything like that. So yeah.
    5:39
    That's where I've been between that and the Mandalorian started back up and Discovery started back up. One of those is much better than the other. I'm not going to tell you, but I have a feeling that you don't need me to.
    5:56
    Hey, some people like the Discovery ship design. Oh God, it's like the worst Star Trek design ever. Well, I have seen those new episodes for both of those. I'm all caught up on both of those shows. I am done with the first three Dune books. I'm barely into God Emperor of Dune now. When it starts getting weird. Yes. I read a part of the, I read the intro that Frank Herbert's son wrote and it's like, okay, so the tone's going to change. Okay. Good to know. I have only video game I've been playing recently is Slayaway Camp, which is a movement puzzle game where you basically are Jason Voorhees clone going around and killing campers in a Minecraft art aesthetic. So I've been doing that in honor of Halloween because it's really just a puzzle game. I actually did play, I had my best game of Stern Star Trek, the pinball machine ever. I broke 382 million points. That's more than 100 million more than my best score I had ever had. Wow. Which I think if I know what I did right, and I probably don't, is I believe I got double scoring active by getting warp nine and then basically going right into kobayashi maru and doing double scoring into the mini wizard mode so i think that's what i did i'm not quite sure but uh so i did that and then because we just had halloween i was trying to watch a bunch of horror movies so it's like i watched halloween i watched halloween 2 i watched cabin in the woods which i had never seen i watched wishmaster 2 i watched friday the 13th part 6 i watched 30 days of night i've actually this morning was watching uh some clive cussler uh not clive cussler clive uh what's the stephen clean guy who's not nearly as good dean coons dean coons yeah i think it's dean coons book uh like masters of illusion or something it's got scott bacula it's basically scott bacula has jumped into the wrong movie that's what i'm thinking of hey i like scott macula i do too but sometimes he has a bad jump apparently apparently uh so it's just been watch a whole bunch of horror stuff and speaking of horror does cabin in the woods count as horror uh i mean yes i think it does i think it falls under the genre of horror but it's one of those where it's obviously there's a lot of comedic elements to it So it bends a bit, but it's like how Scream is a spoof of horror, but it's still in the horror genre. I mean, it's still got – it's a total – I mean, in terms of splatter effects, it's a total splatter slasher style. Yeah. Graphically, it's incredibly gory. I really enjoyed it. I always – a lot of times I'll watch like that and Dale and Tucker vs. Evil when I want my horror comedic play. Yeah, no, I definitely see the Buffy influences when I watched it. But, of course, with Bradley Whitford involved, all I can think of is, oh, yeah, this is West Wing of zombies. Yeah, zombie West Wing. Yeah.
    9:08
    We've got to talk and slash and walk. Oh, that'd be so good. Oh, I miss that show. I do, too. Well, speaking of missing stuff, let's go ahead and get into the meat and potatoes of the episode. And we'll start with pinball, as we usually do. Meat and taters. A couple topics. First one I wanted to touch on is I was listening to the Super Awesome Pinball Show Super Awesome? Yep, it was super and it was awesome And they had an interview with the owner of Spooky Pinball Charlie Emery And this, I wanted to note Because in all the shows that I've been on As their guest or co-host or whatever It all blends, obviously I can't keep it mentally all straight Total Nuclear Annihilation A game you like Very much I know I have been commenting publicly that it's been my suspicion that there would not be any more TNAs. Charlie in the past had said that there was a plan to do more TNAs with changes, not layout changes, but like improvements, maybe different art stuff going on. Yeah, that sort of idea. That's something that he and the designer Scott Denise. Maybe higher build quality. Yeah, yeah. It could be a variety of things that could be engaged. But I always assumed that that talk made sense to them when it was their best-selling game and they were in the throes of putting out Alice Cooper Nightmare Castles. But after instantly selling out of Rick and Morty's at a 750-unit run, my business assumption was it doesn't necessarily make sense to do another TNA run because they probably will have their next game ready by the time – because it's an 18-month build to finish Rick and Morty. Well, on Super Awesome Pinball Show, Charlie did say he reconfirmed. They are fully planning to do what he called TNA 2.0.
    11:00
    So he also confirmed that it will be the same way. It's still going to be TNA. They're going to play the same, but there will be changes. There will be additions. As I recall from the first discussions on, and this, again, ties very cleanly with TNA 1.0, where Charlie had noted that they deliberately kept the price lower than what they normally would have put it at for their typical profit share because they wanted to get the game out there. So I'm assuming this will cost more money as it had been expected to from that get-go. But I guess my general question on this is, other than I wanted to announce what he said so that that stands as a correction to what my assumptions had been. but to you, Tony, I want to ask, do you think it makes sense for spooky to do any sort of additional run of TNA? I can see them doing an additional run of TNA. One with substantive changes seems a little weird to me. Yeah. And I, and again, I don't know if that is like, are we talking completely different art package Are we talking that the the display does something more you know the the animations are fairly basic on TNA Are we talking different Or is it just like some mechanical improvements to the consistency on the optos for the Denise lock and better protection for the scoops It could be something like that, which would make sense. See, because to me, TNA is their only game that they've put out, as far as I can think of, that wasn't called a limited edition. so it makes sense to be the game that they kick out some here and there when they're between other games. Now, does this mean that their timeline for the follow-up to Rick and Morty is so far back that they're going to have downtime in the factory, that they're going to fill it with this TNA 2.0? maybe. I honestly wouldn't have thought that they'd be that far back with the next game unless they've been more heavily hit by the COVID issues than I expected.
    13:13
    It seems a little strange to me, but I like that they've got a plan. Yeah. I mean, my initial thing, I had not, because I bought mine new from Spooky. It's my second new in-box game I've purchased. And back when, a little bit after I got it, when I had last looked, the TNAs were trending at about $5,500 was sort of what they were going for on the used market. So I didn't see, and it was a $6,000 game base new. So my initial thought was that mathematically, I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense because the games go for less than they sold for new. I'm looking at the archive on Pinside now, and apparently that is not the case anymore. It seems like the games are running about, on the low end, like $57.50 all the way up to $7,000, which I'm assuming those might be buttercabs or whatnot. Obviously, the features make a big difference on what you bill for for a TNA. So maybe there's a market for it. But yeah, again, I just – my assumption was always, as you noted, it was the only non-limited – I guess some of their other contract games technically didn't have hard limits initially, but those are said and done projects like the Domino's pin and such. So I get the ability to have something like that to go back to. It's just given the success of Rick and Morty, they know the recipe that works. Get a really good theme, lean into your limited nature, and sell them all right away, and then keep yourself busy for a year plus. so I don't like from a business standpoint I don't see this as a great idea I don't see it as a bad idea I just I don't see the need for it so I find it a little odd but it's a really fun game so I think on that perspective I could if they can sell more of them and there can be more out there for people to enjoy I'm all for it how many do you think they 2.0 do you think they move how many units if they do it like they did in the past they're going to want to build them in blocks of 50 I say no more I would guess I'm pulling this out of an orifice my guess is that they do 100 to 150 just to have some in storage to see A. how well the idea takes and B. to cover them until they can start actual production on their next project okay I actually earlier oh and by the way Zach Minney from the pinball show says hi Tony says hi to you specifically hi Zach you can tell Zach next time you speak with him that I said hello I think he listens so he'll probably hear you actually say it we'll see if that works it does because he knows you don't listen to him it's like that episode of Futurama tell my wife I said hello I think your count's reasonable on TPS both Zach and I have speculated 100 units I think because I don't think they're going to initially sell all 100 I don't think so again I don't know what's going to be different and I don't know what the new price is wasn't the original run like 5 something?
    16:32
    wasn't the original run like 5 something? am I misremembering? no no it was 550 Okay, that's what I thought. I thought it was in the 500 range. Right. They were trying to do like blocks of 50 were how they were ordering the supplies as I understood it. And they sold and sold and sold. When I bought mine, which was in February of 2019, they had two left. And they'd already built all 550. And so they had announced months before, I believe, that cutoff. So they had a few. They still clearly had a few around or were still building. And that was then when they transitioned into doing their Alice Cooper builds. So, yeah, that's where I think it will end up. The big question is how much TNA demand is there versus all the other newer games that have come out since then? And what are the 2.0 features? Are they seductive? Like are people who maybe had TNA 1.0 who sold it, miss it and decide to get a 2.0? Like I think that's the market. I don't think there's a lot of high demand for more TNAs. If you're looking at the 2.0 changes primarily being slight cosmetic changes or maybe upgraded mechanics, they don't change the play. They're just better quality due because they've got a new supplier or there's a new something. I think that most likely what you're looking at is we're not quite ready to start the design point of, or at some point they weren't quite ready to start the design point of their follow-up to Rick and Morty. So to keep the design team busy, they spruced up TNA before they started on the next project, which means they'll have a window because something was behind that will let them kick out 100 machines or whatever. Yeah. 100, 150 machines. My only thing is I don't think they are behind. I think that they're unveiling a new designer for the next game. I think it's ready. I think they're pushing to try and get the Rick and Mortys done faster. And part of that's probably just the pressure of do you really want your customers to wait 18 months for a game? I mean, it's not a great position to be in. But, yeah, I don't think they need to do it. I think it's more a want thing. Like Charlie and Scott just think it's a cool idea, and so they want to do it. but well we'll have to wait and see yeah no it's an interesting idea that's for sure it's kind of like their version of stern vaulting stuff with new yeah yeah now that's where i like i don't know like i don't know if they're going to change the art or what i like the art package on the i do like the art pack i like everything about the i like everything about tna that's funny it is my favorite they could put in more beep beepier version that would be better more beep speaking of beeping uh if you want to beep in slow motion the slow-mo guys they showed how a pinball machine works just the other day i have a link to the video in the show notes this was really interesting because one how pinball machines work is cool two slow motion is cool. And three, the pinball machine was actually provided by Jersey Jack Pinball. It was a Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. As of earlier this morning, I checked that video had been seen by 290,000 viewers. And for those that don't know, the Slow Mo Guys are what we call outside of the pinball industry, an influencer. They have 13.9 million subscribers on YouTube. Yeah, they are not a small channel They're a very popular channel I was going to ask, Tony, if you had heard of the Slow Mo Guys But I also knew that that would be an incredibly stupid thing to ask Right, yeah, no, they're I've heard of them I have perused many of their things Surprisingly enough, though, while I've watched a lot of their stuff I'm not a subscriber Yeah, I'm not either, because it shows up on the homepage of YouTube yeah and that's the big thing is there are a couple people that i watch a lot of that i'm not subscribers to because they're so big they are always appearing everywhere i mean i don't have to subscribe to will it blend i know i will find it right which jersey jack don't don't do it don't send don't loan them a pinball machine to the will it blend people you will not like what comes back no no but um so i i did hear it confirmed like uh it was jersey jack approached slow-mo guys about this so tony let's discuss how smart this was this was it this is i mean i know for a fact that we have talked about this together and with others outside of the show this yeah this this ties well this ties in big time to our marketing 101 talk when travis murray was on the episode i mean this is the type of thing that i think is is if they want to get seen and get things known outside of the pinball hobby. This is the type of thing they need to. Yes.
    21:46
    I'm going to be more direct. Let me turn to the audience. I'm now facing the microphone. I was already, but now it sounds like I really am. Let me be more blatant. Stern, are you listening? Are you watching this? This is what winning looks like. when it comes to marketing, this is what winning is. These are real numbers. Yeah, this is a very good thing. I like what Jersey Jack has done lately. The Guns N' Roses launch and the way they handled that, I was really happy with. Now this, I'm really happy with. There are a few other big name places I think that could probably be slipped into pretty easily in the influencer groups.
    22:41
    But it's definitely a smart move. It's a great move. They are playing the influencer game the best of anybody in pinball by leaps and bounds. And that's why I'm not linking this in the show notes. But for those that have not heard, I do actually for once will suggest you going back and listening to a prior EGP episode, our Marketing 101 episode with Travis. Because, yeah, we talked about this. We talked about the influences on that episode and where there could be kind of this cross-pollination of people that are not pinheads but are fertile ground to grow new pinheads. And that's where this being a tech oriented channel showcasing how something works. The intricacies of the mechanics of pinball are interesting to people that would watch the slow mo guys. That's why it's such a great audience because it's not your typical audience, but it's an audience that you would think would like pinball. I remember going and watching the video yesterday and like the top two comments when I loaded the page. The first two ones I saw, one of them was just like, whoa, this is really cool. I can't stop watching. And then the next one was the whole time I'm sitting here thinking I want to buy a pinball machine. I saw that comment. Yeah, no, I mean, and again, it's what and why I pointed to that episode We did what Travis noted is when you have something like 13 million subscribers it not like you selling 13 million pins You just need a small percentage of these people to research this and then a smaller percentage of that decide they actually want to buy something that were sales you never would have gotten anywhere else You were never going to get it through some live stream reveal on Twitch. You're never going to get it because you put it up on your own Facebook page as a pinball manufacturer. It's a new – growing a new audience, not just waiting for them to come in and find pinball, which seems to have been the strategy for the last eight years. Yeah. No, I fully agree. So I'm going to golf clap.
    24:37
    Yay! Good job, Jersey Jack Pinball. The whole marketing strategy you have done throughout 2020, I think really as of the GNR reveal, I just think it's really smart. I think it's better than any other manufacturer is doing by a mile. And it would be a travesty if the others do not copy you. A travesty. Obviously not a travesty to J.J.P. Right. But, I mean, this is one of those things where it's like, congratulations, this was amazing, do it again. Yeah.
    25:12
    This is the type of stuff that is going to get the hobby grown. This is the type of stuff that's going to get the company's names known. And I think they did absolutely the right thing by picking Wonka as the game to send.
    25:27
    Yeah, no. it was everything about it it's a really cool video too so even if you're not a wonka fan the video is really fun to watch so it was i do suggest it even if you already own pinball machines take a look at it it's cool speaking of cool tony we're already ready for the video game segment are there any cool delays stuff that there's going on lately very cool delays Do you want to tell us about it? Oh, yeah. There's so many cool delays.
    25:55
    Oh, my God. Here's the thing. Tell me about the thing, Tony. What makes this humorous is the fact that CD Projekt Red. Famed developers of The Witcher? Correct.
    26:11
    Have spent the month since their last announcement of a delay on Cyberpunk 2077. talking about how the delays are done. We're good. Just days ago, they had a post out. They were on social media sharing that, yeah, no, the game's gone gold. We're going. Gold, that's like guaranteed. Yeah. They flat out told people who asked, they're like, yes, there will be no more delays. You are okay to take November 19th off so that you can play Cyberpunk all day. great idea. I got to get my game on Tony. You do. It's right there. It's a great idea. It's available.
    26:56
    Yeah. They announced a delay. No, that's my Vader. Yeah. That didn't sound like Vader, but they promised, they promised and they broke their promise. And I think part of this is the issues with making announcements about games. Period. but at the same time, I don't think it would have been as bad if they hadn't been going so hard on. Yeah, it's okay. Everything's going to be okay.
    27:31
    Yeah. Let me ask you, Tony, why do they keep committing to dates if they just keep doing that? I mean, why do they give dates? I don't know. That's, I do not understand what happened. It used to be the norm that you did not have a firm release date for a game until that game was done.
    27:57
    But I agree. But I'll also say it used to be, and I have heard of in the last two, going back to the PS4 or 3 and the 360, like four or six games where once you go gold, you come out. you don't delay anymore so well the thing with that is going gold doesn't really mean anything yeah yeah you're right everything's updated nobody plays the game that comes out on the disc everything gets updated but they had banned like i saw on reddit i saw a photo of a banner at best buy saying come in and get cyberpunk almost now wrong date i know it was a banner It's insane how hard they went on this, and it's just trashed and gone. And the reasoning, and here's the thing that gets me, the reasoning for it, from all the reports, is the game is 100% ready for PC and next-gen consoles.
    29:02
    But not current-gen? Current-gen consoles, it's not ready for. But they've had forever to know. They know the current-gen specs. Why is that the problem? I don't know. And what makes it even harder to understand is that while it's releasing on next-gen consoles, the actual patches to make it utilize everything in the next-gen consoles aren't day one patches and are expected to come early next year.
    29:36
    Oh, God. Tony, this is all a mess. I don't understand it. I think my guess from the various things I've read and looking at it is that when they finished everything up and everything was looking good, and when they went back and started doing playtesting on current-gen machines, my guess is either there were loading time issues or there were hanging issues. There was something that was bad enough that it would be a review killer that they've got to clean up. Well, it's not a bad theory, but I mean, so many of these decisions, I think early on when Cyberpunk started to delay, obviously you had COVID delays, which people were very sympathetic. They felt almost in a rock star mode where it's like we want the best game possible. So people were really, I think, wisely forgiving to announce delays to have a better game product. But especially after the last, not this now new delay, but the one before, which then all the reports started to come out about the crunch conditions. This just looks like, now what did you do? Did you crunch your staff for nothing now? The crunch conditions when they had originally said there would be no crunch? Yeah. And then there was crunch. So is there more feedback on the crunch stuff? Because surely there's blowback about that. There is because there was a recent investor call and the joint CEO, Adam Kikinski, said the crunch was not that bad. Oh, was he in the crunch? Was that how he knew that? I don't know. He said, and I quote, regarding crunch, actually it's not that bad and never was. Of course it's a story that has been picked up by the media and some people have been crunching heavily, but a large part of the team is not crunching at all since they have finished their work. It's mostly about Q&A and engineers, programmers, but it's not that heavy. Of course, it will be extended a bit, but we have feedback from the team. They're happy about the extra three weeks, so we don't see any threats regarding the crunch.
    31:39
    And amazingly, the team apparently disagreed with him because the blowback they took internally was enough that he had to send an email out to the team apologizing for his comments because they came across as demeaning and harmful.
    31:57
    And also not surprising, some angry developer leaked his email to the media. So now there's more stories about how he downplayed a crunch that exists and demeaned everyone by saying, oh, it's not that bad, it's not heavy, and it's only on the engineers anyway. Yeah. And the truth of the matter is, the email was pretty bad. I'll quote from the email. It's like, I had not wanted to comment on Crunch, yet I still did. And I did it in a demeaning and harmful way. What I said was not even unfortunate. It was utterly bad.
    32:37
    I didn't want to talk about this terrible topic. And then I did as a total potato. I mean. I knew we shouldn't say anything.
    32:51
    But I just couldn't help myself but say all the wrong things. I'm such a great CEO. No wonder they have a joint CEO system. They need the other one to cover for this guy. This guy obviously shouldn't be allowed to.
    33:08
    I didn't mean to comment on it, but I still did. I mean, I'm sorry. That's like walking up to a blind date and just saying, hey, nice. you know what it reminds me sorry about that no no it's fine because i'm gonna we'll have to have a beep because i'm gonna have to put another one too because it reminds me of the scene in the last boy scout where he goes oh yeah no i understand oops i slipped and my fell in your wife that movie had so many good lines in it yes oh yeah no oh it's just it's so bad i mean it is so bad that in august cd project red share price was at an all-time high and it has fallen 25 percent that's massive whoa that is huge impact I mean, I heard on another gaming podcast that I listened to, obviously, the issue has now come up with all these delays. A lot of people thought this was going to be Game of the Year.
    34:21
    And now it's like, well, maybe it'll be Game of 2021 because there's not enough time to review it for Game of the Year at this point. Right. And that's the thing is with it coming out in December, a lot of game reviewers have a hard cutoff of December 1. Anything not out by December 1 isn't counted for that year. It rolls into the next years for possibility of game review. And it's a smart approach because it's really unfair otherwise. Right. So, yeah. No, it's one of those things that it's just – but they've lost a quarter of their worth since the announcement of the last delay. Yeah. Because they were riding an all-time high, and then they announced the delay from September to November. And they've lost a quarter of their net worth. Yeah. I just think early on with having to do delays, I thought they managed it very well in a very rock star manner. And it's interesting just how they've taken that and just turned it into a disaster by repeatedly missing dates, committing and missing the things with crunch, instituting when you said you wouldn't do it, and then downplaying what you did to act like you didn't really do it when you did. And then you upset your own staff. it's just wow there's there there's probably a good maybe not a book but probably a good like three-part article series i can go yeah no they it is an amazing this up for a company that walked in with so much goodwill that they've shredded it in six months yeah you know yeah yeah that's probably the best comparison of all time it reminds it's like and we've lived this you and i watching the old Squaresoft and how it became the tarnished Square Enix or more recently the fall of Blizzard Yeah and that what this feels like The question is can they come back from this Is this something that they in a position that they be able to bounce back Because this isn't the same level of bad blood that has been created by Blizzard over the last several years or that happened with the fall of Square. And I think it's entirely possible that they can, especially if this game is as good as everybody hopes it is. but I mean it's just their investors have got to be just horrified to see the drop in stock prices because CD Projekt Red came into this year with Witcher 3 got released on the Nintendo Switch and had enormous sales the Witcher TV series had just come out on Netflix and was hugely popular and now they're here I hope this game's as good as good enough to make up for what it's done to the company how it's tarnished the company over the course of the last six months yeah I think they can come back, I think any company can come back as long as it can survive as long as it survives and can cut off the arm that is holding it to Activision, any company can come back. Yes, yes.
    37:41
    Yeah, we'll have to see. Can you hear me, Blizzard, please? If the game is good. Cut your arm off. If it's not a Mass Effect Andromeda. Get away from Activision.
    37:50
    Yeah. Hey, Microsoft, do you have any of that buy-up bunch of major company money lying around? Can you spike Blizzard away from Activision?
    38:03
    Oh, yeah. I have a lot of hopes for this game. I really do. I've not pre-ordered it because I don't really do that kind of thing like I used to.
    38:18
    But I am planning on picking it up after release. Yeah. No, so far, I still have a pretty high degree of confidence that the game will actually be really enjoyable. right it ticks all of my interest boxes that's why i'm gonna give it a i'm gonna go for it i mean it picks like all of my interest and that's where i think even with all the drama behind all of this i still expect this to sell very well for cd project red and that ultimately money is what matters so right and they're still going to get it out in time for christmas i guess hopefully i Unfortunately, I cannot trust dates from them now. No.
    39:07
    They've ruined that. They've peed in the bowl of Cheerios too much. I think they would have hurt themselves even worse if they pushed into January. I agree with you. I think they'd just hurt themselves so much worse because the Christmas season is such a big season. And just the simple fact that they pushed out of November into December has caused multiple other games to push into January. Yeah, because they're trying to avoid the behemoth. Yeah, it's just not worth it to them. Those games would rather lose the Christmas sales because they're just not at that level. I mean, and that's the thing is most of the best games lately have not been AAA titles. and most of the AAA titles you hear about are, you know, Call of Duty 2020 because it might as well. I don't care what you call it. It's just like FIFA 2020 or Madden 2020. It's the yearly flavor of that game, and that's what most of the big AAA titles are anymore. At least that's how it feels. Yeah. But this one has been the one that everyone's been waiting for. This has been the monster. So we'll see what happens with it. Well, I guess it worked out for Assassin's Creed Valhalla. Yeah. Because I think it was going to have to go up against Cyberpunk on the original release. Yeah. Speaking of that, Ubisoft. Yeah, Ubisoft. You like my transition there? That's clever. Great transition. Ubisoft has made an announcement that there are eight PS4 titles that will not work on the PS5, which pretty much doubles the number of PS4 titles that don't work on the PS5 based upon the last announcement from Sony.
    40:56
    Because Sony had an announcement of like 10 titles that would work. Right, I remember that. And Ubisoft just added eight more.
    41:03
    Did they say why? Not really. not in the articles I read about it I know looking at it most of them are VR titles or several of them are VR titles I know Star Trek Bridge Crew is VR and Space Junkies is VR I don't know about I see there are a few Assassin's Creed the Chronicles games are 2D platformers right and it's basically all the Chronicles games aren't making the jump Assassin's Creed Syndicate the Chronicles Trilogy Pack, Chronicles India, Chronicles China, Chronicles Russia, Risk, Bridge Crew, Werewolves Within, and Space Junkies aren't making the jump. Two of those, at least two of those I know are VR titles. So, I don't know why. They just, they don't work for whatever reason. I don't know that any of those are a big enough name to really bother anybody. Probably not. A lot of people play Bridge Crew. Yeah, the VR people might be a little upset just because I'm assuming it's not ideal for them to want to keep two consoles just to keep doing all the very limited VR titles they've got. Right. The Chronicles games I don't think sold very well. They're not like mainline Assassin's Creed. I've played a couple of them. I don't think they're great, so I don't think you're missing much there. and Risk they can program a new Risk later that'll work on it and it'll be fine, it's Risk is this Risk Risk, like they couldn't get a board game to work? yeah, apparently oh wow, okay maybe you need some crunch yeah I don't know what to say oh it's too hard, it's a board game, it's too hard yeah jeez, okay that's funny I don't know, I mean I don't know, this game released on PlayStation 3. No, it's too hard now. We can't solve the mysteries of Risk. I know.
    43:11
    So, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with Ubi. Well, they've got lots of issues, because Ubisoft, as you recall earlier in the year, were having major issues with within their teams and with some executive level shenanigans shenanigans the word that's a kind word yeah yeah horror stories yes uh fit better i'm guessing that these just basically weren't plug and play compatible with the ps5 and they don't want to invest the staff resources to make them work because they're not popular enough that's my guess i would assume that's what it is because since they since the PS4, or I'm sorry, the PS5 doesn't have the same level of backwards compatibility that Microsoft built into the Series X, I think that's the issue.
    44:15
    Because PlayStation said, hey, we want most stuff to be backwards compatible, but they're not going all out to make everything backwards compatible. Yeah, I think as they, I mean, dominating the PS4 current gen the way they have, That hasn't needed to be a focus of theirs. And Microsoft fairly early on with when Phil took over, I think, really relied on trying to exploit backwards compatibility to get people that were big 360 players to want into the current gen. And they're just continuing that concept. That's my take on just like they have two different strategies given where their place is in the market.
    44:52
    Well, speaking of the market, I think we've marketed ourselves to the end of our episode. Pretty much. I think we had a really fun discussion on season project. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. I have not laughed that hard on a podcast in quite a while.
    45:05
    I'm not laughing at them. I'm laughing with them. It's just so, Oh, they were just, they were going so hard on social media. That's what makes it funny is they went so hard on social media, pushing that date and, and the developers didn't even know about it. Nobody knew about the delay in, I mean, None of the developers knew about the delay in company until the tweet hit. Get ready for a surprise. Surprise, three more weeks of crunch.
    45:36
    They love it. Engineers love it. You get three weeks of crunching. The Oprah of cyberpunk.
    45:48
    And then he tells the investors, oh, they love it. They love three weeks of crunching. That's right. Plants love it and so do engineers. They love crunch. They love it. They love working 12-hour days, six days a week. They love it. And that's if they're the lucky ones because the unlucky ones are sleeping under their desk. In fact, they're happy about the extra three weeks. They're happy. They're great. We got some stuff set up. Postmates can come and just drop their food right off at the front desk and security picks out the good stuff for themselves and sends the rest on up. Oh, I bet they do. It's great. I bet they do that. I'm sure they do. Oh.
    46:30
    Well, listeners, for those of you that want to pick out any of the good stuff you heard in this episode and contact us about it, you can always email us at eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com or visit us and message us over at Eclectic Gamers Facebook page, which is facebook.com slash eclectic underscore gamers. We're on Twitch, Instagrams, and the tweeters at eclectic underscore gamers. and I don't know what we're doing in two weeks Tony other than we'll have another episode I don't know what's we're going to make fun of something probably I'm sure we will it'll be fun for us it might not be fun for you guys but it'll at least be fun for us I do have a correction I gave the wrong Facebook link I did it like the other socials that you announced it's actually facebook.com slash eclectic gamers podcast don't stick in an underscore and you do need to add the word podcast so yep who knows where you'll go if you put in an underscore you probably go right into the cg project red crunch cycle don't go there's a drop there's a knock on the door and they're just like we need you to crunch we need you you'll be happy but but but i've never i haven't programmed anything since basic it's okay we need your help we need your help it's like the bad fan fix where somebody where they just knock on the door someone's having their normal day and then like they're like this hero from some stories there's like i need you and grabs him and takes off and it's like the terrible mary sue fanfic i saved cd project red okay until until two weeks i'm dennis i'm tony goodbye everybody bye