Episode 194: Roger Sharpe perspective

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·13m 39s·analyzed·May 4, 2019

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Roger Sharpe reflects on pinball industry evolution and modern game complexity at Amusement Expo.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Roger Sharpe at the Amusement Expo in Las Vegas, discussing the evolution of pinball shows, industry scale changes, action buttons in modern games, and how contemporary pinball complexity compares to the design simplicity Sharpe demonstrated in the 1976 skill-vs-chance legal case. Sharpe reflects on game accessibility and whether modern machines could pass legal scrutiny using the same straightforward mechanical demonstration approach.

Key Claims

Roger Sharpe has attended approximately 30+ industry trade shows over his career
high confidence · Sharpe states 'I've stopped counting after about 30' when asked how many shows he's attended
The first amusement industry show Sharpe attended was AMOA (Amusement Operators Expo) in Chicago in fall, followed by AOE (Amusement Expo) in New Orleans in spring
high confidence · Direct statement by Sharpe about show history and Centaur/Firepower timing
The main hall of the Las Vegas Convention Center used for coin-op shows was approximately 12 times larger than the current venue
medium confidence · Sharpe compares historical show size to current scale: 'the main hall, which is over there, which is like 12 times bigger than this'
Chicago Gaming Company has significant production numbers and market penetration despite only making remake games for their first three releases
high confidence · Roger Sharpe: 'their production numbers are significant. The market penetration that they have is truly amazing given the last three, four years'
By 2019, pinball manufacturers collectively release new games almost monthly across all companies
medium confidence · Sharpe prediction: 'in 2019, we see a release almost every month when you look at all the different companies'
Jersey Jack and Spooky Pinball do not exhibit at this particular show because they focus on the collector/enthusiast market rather than commercial operators
high confidence · Sharpe: 'Jersey Jack isn't here. Spooky isn't here because that's more for the collector market. It's more for the enthusiasts. It's more boutique'
Modern action buttons on pinball machines can create balance issues if they provide asymmetrical advantage based on usage
high confidence · Sharpe opinion: 'if the balance and scales are out of whack if you did or did not press it then I feel that we're going a little bit over the deep end'
Action button implementation has improved from Star Wars onward, becoming more integrated and less intrusive

Notable Quotes

“I've stopped counting after about 30.”
Roger Sharpe @ early interview — Establishes Sharpe's decades of industry participation and institutional memory
“the main hall, which is over there, which is like 12 times bigger than this, that's what the coin-op industry used to stage and show”
Roger Sharpe @ mid-interview — Illustrates the massive scale decline of pinball/coin-op industry shows over decades
“Jersey Jack isn't here. Spooky isn't here because that's more for the collector market. It's more for the enthusiasts. It's more boutique”
Roger Sharpe @ mid-interview — Explains market segmentation between commercial operator shows and collector-focused manufacturers
“If it is something however where the balance and scales are out of whack if you did or did not press it then I feel that we're going a little bit over the deep end.”
Roger Sharpe @ mid-interview — Expresses concern about action button balance and game design integrity
“I think it's one of the aspects of not having broader acceptance of today's pinball out in the real world. There's a level of intimidation, a level of ignorance as to what do I do.”
Jeff Teolis @ late-interview — Identifies game complexity as a barrier to casual player adoption
“I used to do this for Williams Valley Midway of Trade Shows to be able to say, just shoot for the flashing light. Well, now it's like, Roger, which flashing light?”
Roger Sharpe @ late-interview — Illustrates the shift from simple mechanical gameplay to complex rule systems
“I believe that there would be a will, there would be a way. But I don't think that I would be the appropriate person these days going forward.”
Roger Sharpe @ closing segment — Sharpe asserts confidence modern games could pass legal scrutiny but expresses doubt about his own suitability for such a demonstration in 2019

Entities

Roger Sharpeperson Jeff TeolispersonJulie DorcespersonStephen ZollerpersonZach SharppersonJosh SharppersonBowen CairnspersonStern PinballcompanyChicago Gaming Companycompany

Signals

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event_signal: Pinball Fest occurring concurrent with Amusement Expo in Las Vegas; competitive event with semifinals and top female finisher recognition
high · Teolis references watching Pinball Fest results with Julie Dorces as top female finisher and multiple named semifinalists
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design_philosophy: Modern pinball game complexity creates accessibility barrier for casual players compared to classic machines; players struggle to understand objectives without explanation
high · Teolis: 'somebody had to explain to me you know monster millions or madness or whatever and i was just like okay so where am i going what am i doing' and Sharpe: 'There's a level of intimidation, a level of ignorance as to what do I do'
?
design_philosophy: Action button integration quality has improved significantly from initial implementations; Star Wars represented pivotal shift toward better design balance
medium · Teolis: 'I think they have dialed it back since Star Wars. But I do enjoy Star Wars now' and Sharpe's cautionary point about balance being out of whack
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market_signal: 2019 industry forecast shows accelerated new game release cadence across all manufacturers, approximately monthly releases when aggregated
medium · Sharpe: 'in 2019, we see a release almost every month when you look at all the different companies'
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market_signal: Chicago Gaming Company has achieved significant production scale and market penetration despite exclusive focus on remake titles
high · Sharpe: 'their production numbers are significant. The market penetration that they have is truly amazing'

Topics

Industry trade show evolution and scale declineprimaryAction button implementation in modern pinball gamesprimaryGame complexity and casual player accessibilityprimaryMarket segmentation between operators/commercial venues and collectors/enthusiastssecondaryChicago Gaming Company's market position and strategysecondaryRoger Sharpe's historical role in 1976 pinball skill vs. chance legal casesecondaryModern pinball rule complexity compared to classic machinesprimaryTournament results and competitive pinball at Pinball Fest/Nationalsmentioned

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Positive regarding industry growth and modern game releases; concerned about complexity barriers to casual adoption and action button balance issues. Sharpe is nostalgic about historical show scale while optimistic about current pinball market strength. Teolis shows warming acceptance of action buttons but initial skepticism.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.041

it's time now for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teals you can find our group on facebook we're also on twitter at pinball profile email us pinball profile at gmail.com and please subscribe on either itunes stitcher or google play i'm sitting here saturday may the 4th may the 4th be with you i'm wearing my chewbacca t-shirt watching the results of pin Fest. Rooting for Julie Dorces, who did amazing. She was the top female finisher and won a beautiful trophy from Mrs. Pin. Congratulations on your top 10 finish, Julie. Right now, they're in the semifinals. Stephen and Jason Zoller, Alexander Kuzmarchuk, Elliot Keith, Joe Lemaire, Bowen Kerins, Jack Tabin, and Jerry Bernard. Best of luck to each of you. I'm putting together this massive show in which I've taken interviews from so many different events. You'll hear that coming up on the next episode, episode 195, which will also come out today. But this was one of the pieces and I thought, you know what? I don't want this to get buried. It's some interesting conversations that I had with a pinball wizard. Before pin masters and before the nationals here in Las Vegas, it's the amusement expo and Stern is here and raw thrills and oh, I've got a sharp, but don't worry. I've got the good one. I've got the good one. Roger Sharp is here. Hello, Roger, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? I'm good. It's nice to see you here. I mean, have you ever thought about how many of these shows you've been to over the years? I've stopped counting after about 30. What was the first one like? You know, it's interesting. First one was actually AMOA. It was a fall show in Chicago at the Hill. AOE, which was the Amusement Operators Expo, started in New Orleans. AMA, like people need to know all this stuff. Oh, there'll be a test after. Yeah, really. Started a year later in the spring to try to knock out AOE, which was started by Playmeat. And that was the year of Centaur, just before Centaur's Firepower. Firepower was a game on display by Williams. Whatever happened to that Steve Ritchie guy who made that game? I don't even know. I heard that he was coming out of retirement. He was brandishing some swords. I don't know exactly what that means, but yes. I can only imagine what the shows are like now because obviously when I walk through here, there's certainly a lot of redemption games. There's a lot of video games. What was it like back then? So we're in the convention center. By the way, when I say back then, it's not like it was before I was born either. No, but it was during black and white TV, I'm sure. All right, okay. But in all seriousness, if anybody has ever gone to the Las Vegas convention center, the main hall, which is over there, which is like 12 times bigger than this, that's what the coin-op industry used to stage and show. Oh. You could never have fit everything into here. This is like a tent. So think of IAAPA, which I know you've been in. IAAPA in scope and scale, not just that one quarter of the hall, which is dedicated to the coin op, and you had all the major manufacturers, pinball, video, novelty, jukeboxes, the list goes on and on and on. That entire hall, you'd walk in and be like, oh my God, here it is. It's fantasy land. Roger, is that more of a reflection of which show to choose versus the times? Because IAAPA is huge Nobody ever did IAAPA then We had two shows We had a spring show and we had the fall AMOA Those were the two And when AMA and AOE were able to bury the hatchet it became a single spring show There used to be two spring shows. I guess people right now are picking one over the other and IAAPO might be the show to do. Is that what we're seeing? There's been some debate from what I've been hearing and I'm aware of, which is whether or not this is a valid show because it follows so closely. to IAAPA. And a lot of the people don't bring necessarily newer stuff, so much as it is, hi, it's now finished and final from what I showed you six months ago, five months ago. And I think that it's two different customer bases, admittedly, in terms of IAAPA. Much grander in scale and scope, as you know. Inflatables, amusement parks, 12D experiences, all of it. And here we are as a small pocket of companies where about space races you're not going to see here. That's their marketplace for theme parks. With pinball companies, we're seeing releases, I bet you in 2019, we see a release almost every month when you look at all the different companies. I agree, but the problem that you have then is who is concentrating on the commercial operator? Stern Pinball obviously is. Lo and behold, there's only one other manufacturer on the floor, Chicago Gaming. Yeah. Jersey Jack isn't here. Spooky isn't here because that's more for the collector market. It's more for the enthusiasts. It's more boutique and the size of their operation. But I'm just saying, what I would think would be a surprise for most, Chicago Gaming. Really? They're just doing remakes and things. Well, yeah, but their production numbers are significant. The market penetration that they have is truly amazing given the last three, four years of them finding some level of permanence. Okay, Roger, yes, the first three games have been remakes. What's stopping them from creating their own game. I mean, they've now got a pretty good bankroll with those things. Why can't they do their own game? Maybe you'll be seeing something that's original from them coming somewhere down the road. Why is it in this video you're winking? You got something in your eye, Roger? What's going on? I do. It must be some dirt. Speaking of dirt, how is Josh? I saw him briefly. You know, I came to see him. We're all thrilled. He's already gone. He's got to prepare for the Nationals tomorrow. No, he didn't make the Nationals. Zach beat him. That's right. So you have your Zach sign already for tomorrow? I'm hoping, yes. We'll see. We'll see if a Sharp can do something. And then, you know, they've talked me into doing my thing on Friday and Saturday. Tim Gould. You and I might be in the same course. That's right. It's kind of scary. It'll be good. They just want to give me grief. See an old man play. Okay, Roger, forget this old man thing because I'm called an old man too, and it drives me nuts. Yeah, no, I'm used to it. Anyway. Yes. The new games here. Every game I'm looking at here, I see Star Trek, I see Deadpool, Iron Maiden. Let's take that one out for a second. Star Wars, Monsters and Beatles. They all have something that you didn't have back in the day on that little lock bar called an action button. Yep. Although we did on a couple of games. A couple. Riverboat? Yeah, come on. I love Dwight Sullivan. I was playing Riverboat with him on the weekend. But, yeah, it was just there. I don't have to keep playing that. No, no, no. They made their money. I can make fun of Riverboat now can I So make your point yes So we have action buttons What do you think It okay I can ask you about this Sometimes I feel that it an intrusion for me as a player I don know if it something that I should do or shouldn do at the appropriate time Yeah. And I think for, you know, most of the competitive players out there, they have a feel for it. And I remember watching something where Zachary used his chin to actually press a button, whatever the game was. So I think that, you know, it can be a distraction. but if there's an end benefit to it and as a design team you can put in something more that you wouldn't be able to otherwise then I think it's great. If it is something however where the balance and scales are out of whack if you did or did not press it then I feel that we're going a little bit over the deep end. A personal opinion. How do you feel? When it first came out quite verbally hated it. There's no sugarcoating it. I couldn't stand the idea of it. I'm coming around to it and the more recent games, Munsters, you know, you're not bashing ridiculously. You see the zap button, you hit it once, one time. I'm fine with the one-time hits. I'm fine with the cancellations. I'm fine with the boom on Deadpool. And Star Wars, you know, when the TIE Fighters happen, you've got six seconds. You might not want to take both your hands off, but I've adjusted to it. It's not the way I want it to go, but I think they have dialed it back since Star Wars. But I do enjoy Star Wars now. It wasn't something at first I was like, God, what's next, a trackball? Gotcha, right. No, and I think that the integration, to your point, has gotten much more seamless so that there is a rationale for it rather than just a novelty ingredient. But I think to the point of this vast assortment of games, It does demonstrate that the marketplace is growing stronger for pinball, thank God. I'm glad to see it in my lifetime. And I think that, you know, ideally we're going to see better machines down the road. And I say better in regard to mechanical and technical reliability. Better features, better integration of theme into game rules. and my only thing now is whether or not at least superficially I walk up and have a basic understanding of what I want to do and I think some of that is art and not art as a person but the artwork itself does it lead me into a direction the cleanliness of let's say and again going back to the other manufacturer on the floor an attack from mars monster bash you kind of see everything seamlessly in terms of the string of events with this somebody had to explain to me you know monster millions or madness or whatever and i was just like okay so where am i going what am i doing well you have to just hit that again over here and then go back into the kickout hole and it's like oh okay now i get it fine and i have to complete all of them on so think monster bash roger and think of it in terms of the progression number of hits number of revolutions number of repetitive miss of shots for a given character. I know this is hypothetical. Yes. And you and I talk enough that we don't talk about the shot heard around the world, but I'm gonna bring it up right now because imagine that is in 2019 Lawmakers have outlawed pinball and you get a brand new game that is pretty deep Pick any one of these five games you get Pick any one of those five games So let's say Iron Maiden. And you had to explain to that council how Iron Maiden worked. And first of all, pray that they ignore it and listen to the music. Don't listen. Turn the volume down because that would scare them enough. Could you be able to do what you did with a newer machine? Yes. Yeah, I believe so. You know what? You said that with complete confidence. I did only from the standpoint of geometry. Okay. Would they have understood it? Not that you wouldn't have been able to make the shots. Would you have been able to explain to them in layman's terms? No. Not to the same extent. Like the modes? Right. No. No, I would absolutely need some unique machines to be able to do that, where they could actually see it superficially. Because on the surface, okay, I have all of this stuff that's going on. Well, and I have to hit this, and I have to do that, And if I do that three times and I do that five, there is something that is much more complex, which I think, and it's interesting, maybe this is off topic. I think it's one of the aspects of not having broader acceptance of today's pinball out in the real world. There's a level of intimidation, a level of ignorance as to what do I do. It's no longer easy when I used to do this for Williams Bally Midway of Trade Shows to be able to say, just shoot for the flashing light. Well, now it's like, Roger, which flashing light? Okay, but you know what? In fairness, the same can be said about video games. When I was playing video games as a kid, you had a stupid joystick that would break after five uses and a red button on an Atari 2600, and you'd have to go left, right, left, right to run, break the joystick. It was pretty simple. So everything's gotten a little more popular. No, everything I think absolutely naturally evolves. But I think, to get back to the question, I believe that there would be a will, there would be a way. How I would do it, what game that would be offered up, because I didn't make the selections back in 76. Those were just two blind things. Hi, here are the games. And contrary to some people who have speculated or stated it, I had played the games before. I did not hand-select them. It wasn't like, oh my God, Roger was nervous because he had never played them before. What was he going to do? No, I mean, I was ready for anything back then. But I don't think that I would be the appropriate person these days going forward. 2019, hopefully I'm still here. Roger, I'm going to stop this interview right now. Thanks very much. Hey, how much did you pay those guys back in the day? Oh, I forgot to press stop, Roger. Never mind, don't answer. Thanks, Roger. My pleasure. Thank you, sir. Up next on episode 195, the biggest Pinball Profile episode ever. Several interviews from different shows, different tournaments. I think you'll enjoy it. Coming up later today. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find our group on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at Pinball Profile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. And please subscribe on either iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Play. I'm Jeff Teolis. you