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Dirty Pool Podcast - Ep25 - DJ Warlock aka Cliff Albert on Pinball Culture

Dirtypool Pinball·video·1h 27m·analyzed·Mar 1, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

DJ Warlock critiques 'pinfluencer' culture for undermining grassroots pinball authenticity.

Summary

Cliff Albert (DJ Warlock) discusses pinball culture, authenticity, and the rise of 'pinfluencers' in streaming content. He critiques newer content creators who chase clout and financial gain rather than genuine community engagement, contrasting them with grassroots location-based play and tournament culture. The conversation explores tensions between streaming culture, home collector dominance (70% of market), and the loss of authentic dive-bar pinball experiences.

Key Claims

  • 70% of pinball market is now home collectors rather than location players

    high confidence · Jeff Dodson references DeadFlip data on market composition

  • Cliff Albert started streaming in 2020 during COVID lockdowns out of loneliness, not for profit or clout

    high confidence · Direct statement by Cliff Albert about motivation for streaming

  • Many newer content creators entered pinball with expensive home setups ($100k+ collections) specifically to chase online influence

    medium confidence · Cliff Albert's criticism of 'new nib noobs' paying top dollar for machines to flip and stream

  • Machine prices have increased dramatically; Cliff Albert bought Road Kings for $450 on Craigslist 20 years ago, current machines cost $13,000-$15,000

    high confidence · Cliff Albert direct price comparison; Jeff Dodson contextual mentions

  • Stern's Pokemon Pinball has sold out of production allocation for the year

    high confidence · Cliff Albert references 'Sam Stern' (Sam Stern at Stern Pinball) statement about Pokemon sellout

  • Cliff Albert was a touring drummer with a surf rock band from 2017 and last toured in 2022

    high confidence · Direct autobiographical statement by Cliff Albert

  • Cliff Albert discovered pinball at Pinfest Allentown in 2017, which was 15 minutes from his home

    high confidence · Direct statement by Cliff Albert about first exposure to pinball community event

  • Cliff Albert started taking tournaments seriously around 2019 and achieved WPPR points

    high confidence · Direct statement by Cliff Albert on tournament timeline

  • Streaming pinball on Twitch is being used by manufacturers like DeadFlip as a modern advertising strategy through 'media days' with invited influencers

    high confidence · Jeff Dodson acknowledges DeadFlip Media Day as intentional marketing strategy

Notable Quotes

  • “I started streaming because I needed friends. You know what I mean? I needed friends. Community friends.”

    Cliff Albert @ N/A — Reveals genuine motivation for early streaming contrasted with newer creators chasing clout

  • “there's a lot of these newer content creators are chasing clout. And there's the genuine... I was making like 200 bucks a month in Twitch right like which is nothing but it was like oh that's cool”

    Cliff Albert @ N/A — Distinguishes authentic early streamers from newer profit-motivated creators

  • “why would you waste your time on this... I pop in and I see like five minutes of this shit and I'm like I'm rolling my eyes”

    Cliff Albert @ N/A — Expresses disdain for low-quality or performative pinball content

  • “It's making all of us like I wouldn't even say that I'm an og I'm just saying it's making all of us go oh jesus christ”

    Cliff Albert @ N/A — Community embarrassment about low-quality pinfluencer content affecting pinball's reputation

  • “These guys are embarrassing and I don't think that it's growing the hobby... how are they showing that they have like fucking high production shit in their basement of a $100,000 collection? How is that growing the hobby when you're showing that this is a rich man hobby?”

    Cliff Albert @ N/A — Core critique: expensive home setups create gatekeeping perception, deterring new players

  • “I wish that everybody's introduction to pinball could be that [grassroots bar experience] but those places and those moments are just a little drop in history they don't exist permanently”

    Jeff Dodson @ N/A — Acknowledges disappearance of traditional grassroots pinball entry points

  • “Authenticity is what really matters when it comes to online... Whether it's good or bad performance, I think authenticity is what really matters”

    Jeff Dodson @ N/A — Host position valuing authentic community engagement over competitive skill in streaming

Entities

Cliff AlbertpersonJeff DodsonpersonDeadFlipcompanyStern PinballcompanyKylepersonHuck ChallengepersonNick ArcadepersonZach Sharpeperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Luxury home-collector market segment is cannibalizing grassroots location-based play; manufacturers prioritizing profitable LE/Premium tiers over Pro accessibility models

    medium · they were paying top dollar and then they would go and flip for even more and then the companies saw that and then the companies started doing so like now we're at fucking fifteen thousand dollars

  • ?

    community_signal: Emerging 'pinfluencer' culture seen as inauthentic; criticism of wealthy newcomers with expensive home setups entering community for social media clout rather than genuine passion

    high · all of a sudden it's like, now we're supposed to listen to what they have to say... these new guys that are coming in... they saw that hey pinball is a thing if i just do you know drop a hundred grand i can be popular

  • ?

    community_signal: Early streaming created genuine community bonding during COVID isolation; contrasted with newer streaming focused on performance/clout; highlights shift in motivations

    high · i was such an extrovert and i was like oh the big C had kicked in... i'm like fuck man like i can't hang out with my friends... people were popping in people were rating me... it was i remember on you know Kyle was like Kyle and Ron and Rucko... they were all like celebrities in my eyes

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong community pushback against perceived inauthenticity in streaming/influencer content; Cliff Albert reports feeling 'alone' initially in criticism but found agreement from 'OGs' and grassroots players

    high · I felt like i was alone in this and and that's why i started putting it out there... but then I started getting a little more popular... there was there's there's a lot of people and a lot of ogs and a lot of just a lot of people are like yeah that's embarrassing

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.261

0:00
what's going on everybody uh welcome to a saturday version of the dirty pool podcast um it's in disc right now but guess what it's lunch and that means we can do a pinball podcast to talk about all sorts of pinball related stuff today i'm joined with cliff albert aka dj warlock uh a punk rock pinballer what's up how's it going what's up dude thanks for having me on thank you for coming on um yes so you and i chatted for a bit before the episode as we normally do to talk about kind of like what we're going to chat about today. And this episode, as much as it is to showcase you, you have a colorful history of both doing pinball podcasting, or I'm sorry, pinball streaming before a lot of people were doing it. You are a DJ, you'd spin and play shows, you do a lot of stuff in the pinball ecosystem and you play a lot of pinball at tournaments. So you're an interesting person to begin with, but you are also someone who has had a lot of loud opinions on social media.
0:57
Yeah. What would you say about that? in trouble but i don't know having loud opinions starts loud discussions and i think that's what today's episode is going to be about today we're going to talk about pinball culture we're going to talk about past present and future it's going to be like uh what's that christmas christmas story of pinball right yeah yeah uh yeah i know you're talking about which ghost are you past present or future uh a little bit of all of them i think okay um but mostly present you know so so this is the topic today we're going to talk about authenticity and pinball we're going to talk about what pinball culture is uh cliff's definitely going to talk about what he thinks pinball culture is all of his views are not mine but we're going to talk about them because i think you have a lot of really good points and uh yeah so let's dive in go let's tell people tell people who you are and kind of like what your background is in music because I think that your DJ shit is part of your connection to pinball culture.

  • Authentic pinball experiences are disappearing because traditional location-based bar/arcade machines are being replaced by home collections

    medium confidence · Jeff Dodson and Cliff Albert discuss loss of grassroots location play

  • “pinball people don't like watching streaming half the fucking time right”

    Cliff Albert @ N/A — Questions assumption that streaming itself grows the hobby among existing pinball enthusiasts

  • “I don't i'm not going to watch those streams regularly because i don't get much from that personally but I think that they may have not ever seen a pinball machine and that is a gateway”

    Jeff Dodson @ N/A — Acknowledges streaming's value for awareness despite authenticity concerns

  • “it's like you're friends with this fucking cul-de-sac rocker you're listening to this fucking guy who's talking about thirteen thousand dollar fucking toys and he can't even play the fucking thing”

    Cliff Albert @ N/A — Vivid characterization of alienation effect high-cost content has on potential newcomers from non-collector backgrounds

    • Greg
    person
    Ruckoperson
    Ronperson
    Huff Chowperson
    IE Pinballperson
    Escherperson
    Aaron Lewisperson
    Marissaperson
    IFPAorganization
    Pinfest Allentownevent
    Pinball Expoevent
    Pintasticevent
    Pin Baltimoreevent
    Bells and Chimesorganization
    Fox City Streamevent/entity
    Tilter The Acelocation
  • ?

    community_signal: Women's participation in pinball growing through organized Bells and Chimes leagues; represents inclusive community expansion alongside broader authenticity concerns

    high · There's more Bells and Chimes leagues than ever to help get more women into pinball, which is fantastic. My wife runs Bells and Chimes here.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Debate over what constitutes 'authentic' pinball experience—grassroots dive bar/tournament play vs. home collection streaming; reflects philosophical divide about hobby's future direction

    medium · There is no proper introduction. There is not... without without there being like more and more locations that provide an authentic pinball experience... those places and those moments are just a little drop in you know history they don't exist permanently

  • ?

    event_signal: Stern Pinball Pokemon machine sold out its production allocation for entire year; indicates strong commercial demand and manufacturer capacity constraints

    high · they've sold out of their pokemon like yeah that's great... exactly so... 70 according to Sam Stern yeah yeah exactly so

  • $

    market_signal: Manufacturer strategy shift: DeadFlip implementing 'Media Day' with invited influencers as modern advertising tactic, indicating brands now explicitly rely on streaming/influencer ecosystem

    high · Media Day exists because they are bringing people that have an online presence to help bring and seed their new game. And I think that's modern advertising. Like, that's what DeadFlip should be doing.

  • $

    market_signal: 70% of pinball machines sold are now for home collection rather than location/operator use, fundamentally shifting community dynamics from location-based to home-based play

    high · DeadFlip talking about 70 percent of their market is going to be home collectors... we're at fucking fifteen thousand dollars for a new machine or similar

  • ?

    community_signal: Cliff Albert transitioned from touring musician lifestyle to pinball community integration; represents broader pattern of alternative/punk culture overlapping with pinball subculture

    high · I was a touring drummer for most of my life since I was 18 until about 2022 was my last tour... i walked in and it was like my first punk show and i was like this is what i want to be when i grow up

  • $

    market_signal: Machine pricing has become prohibitive; historical comparison shows $450 machines 20 years ago vs. $13,000-$15,000 current pricing, creating accessibility barriers for new players

    high · you could buy a pinball machine for five or six hundred dollars you know 20 years ago i remember buying my road kings for like 450 on craigslist... now we're at fucking fifteen thousand dollars

  • ?

    technology_signal: Streaming infrastructure (Twitch, YouTube) fundamentally changed how pinball is discovered and consumed; created new gatekeeping through high production value equipment and expensive machine libraries

    high · when a new person comes in with fucking you know, a Limited Edition or Premium Edition... $10,000 set up with cameras and shit, all of a sudden it's like, now we're supposed to listen

    • 2:01
    Well, actually, I was a touring drummer for most of my life since I was 18 until about 2022 was my last tour. In 2017, I went on a full U.S. tour with a surf rock band, and one of the guys was into pinball casually, and then we went to Pinfest in Allentown, which is only 15 minutes from me, and uh i walked in and it was like my first punk show and i was like this is what i want to be when i grow up and uh we played for like eight hours that day then throughout that whole tour we were just at almost every bar we played or club or whatever anywhere we went there was like a pinball machine and we were like holy shit like this is awesome i can curse right i didn't even ask you of course you can oh i got a potty mouth i thought so baby you can let those bombs fly fuck it cool yeah awesome but yeah um so like from there i got into um i got into the tournament scene like right away and i started just what year was this to frame it just because i think timeline is important for our guy 2017 was my first and then i didn't really start taking tournaments seriously like whoppers and all that shit uh till about 2019 and got to play the last pinbird um well not the last pinbird but like the real last pinbird if you know what i mean before before the flood before the sale before all the stuff got kind of yeah moved around different locations all that stuff for for those who are watching and don't know what whopper points are those are the uh kind of currency that the ifpa uses for world ranking stature yeah it's like it's cool because like whoppers are just like a thing for me like personally just to like it's a little fun side thing in life i'm just like how many can i get where can i get in the state where can i you know what i mean so like it's it's a lot of fun i know like a lot of people talk shit on whoppers and whatever they've always have but um i love it and uh it's just a lot of fun but uh it's also a way for people to kind of seek out tournaments too like there are people that do whopper farming but when you find out that there's tournaments around it promotes going to new areas and playing new games meeting new people like yeah there is a there is a positive aspect to the point system yeah for sure and um you know from there like um i just i really wanted to i was shout out to lick arcade um he was the guy that got me into streaming and helped me throughout all my streaming and whatever and um i i started like like i was telling you like making videos but the audio was terrible uh but i was making videos of like in laundromats playing like broken machines like we were playing a lord of the rings that like the orbits didn't work and we were playing elvis where like nothing really worked there was no lights and the and the flipper rubber was off on the the top one but we were still able to to hit it and you know it was just like it was fun shit like we're bringing paper bag 40s into laundromats and setting up cameras and shit. It was cool. We would ask the shopkeep and just be like, hey, can we just bring in 40s? We're doing something here. Are we talking Colt 45, Steel Reserve, Mickeys, Crazy Horse, Night Flight?
    5:26
    I grew up in New York drinking out of bodegas, so I feel you. We were drinking oldie. A quality brown and orange bottle. yeah it's uh yeah it's piss water but you know but yeah so like from there like you know pinball was not even a community yet for me it was just more of like let me blend my rock and roll trash and like a game that is like considered like the bad boy game you always see like in movies and shit it's like the cool kids are the bad boys like playing pinball so i was like that's really cool like i wear two belts and a lot of leather and a lot of studs and i'm like how cool is that like this is a whole fucking thing you know so um as a side tangent do you think that that attire helps play better competitive pinball like are people missing out on potentially chaps improving their whopper point collection uh no because it's heavy because it weighs you down you can't wouldn't that ground you better it doesn't ground you better to like move the game around um no no no i mean i see i feel naked without the shit now i've been wearing it since i was like 14 years old 13 years old so like we kind of look in the same sense but uh yeah so i i kind of feel naked so i'd probably play worse just because i'm like why are my hips so light i mean i'm not a light man but uh but uh yeah but yeah so like i and then i started playing tournaments and um you know went to rock fantasy and then the pinball gallery and railroad and you know and then uh penskate was our home thing until that closed and like and i was like oh shit like this is really cool and there's a bunch of different walks of life in pinball you know like i'm hanging out with dudes that are IT dudes, they're fucking engineers, and here's me, like, partying my face off playing pinball, and I finally found where the party's at, you know, like, with all the degenerates, you know, and I'm not going to name names, because I'm a little loud about what I do when I party, but, you know, it's just so much fun, and I found another community besides the punk rock community that I'm so deeply ingrained with, especially with the Philly scene.
    8:00
    Pinball is really awesome because of its I think that it does gravitate to a certain kind of individual but there are so many different walks of life that do participate in pinball and more than ever I think right now is a good time that people have been even more inclusive about it. There's more bells and chimes leagues than ever to help get more women into pinball, which is fantastic. My wife runs bells and chimes here. There you go. So it's a good time to be inclusive.
    8:25
    Yeah, for sure. And it's just cool to, like, when you go to a punk show or even an indie show, you kind of meet the same people over and over again eventually, especially for how long. I've been playing shows since I was 14 years old, and for how long I've been playing, it's like you talk about essentially the same shit. It's, you know, sex, drugs, rock and roll, gear, you know, like drums and guitars. And, oh, I'm in this band. Oh, I'm in that band. Check it. Everybody is like, you know, it's one big circle jerk. Where, like, in pinball, it's like, what do you do professionally? You know, what are your other hobbies? And it's like, oh, shit, this dude's in the D&D and he's like, you know, engineering something in the medical field. like and it's just like wow i could learn from these people you know what i mean so it's really cool to see and then when there is like a weirdo like me or you know misfit or a punk rocker or whatever it's just like oh shit you're a nerd too like that's pretty cool you know so um so yeah like it's uh it's a lot of fun in that way you know for sure and that's what attracted me to pinball so besides the game of course for sure for sure but you stream it you had a really cool thing going on in your instagram where you would like present and like showcase like a record and then also like pair it with a pinball machine yeah i was doing that for a little bit um and then i i just i'm so consistent in inconsistency and uh especially in social media um because i just get bored and i'm just like yeah whatever i don't like nobody really gives a fuck but you know um yeah so like um what i was doing when i when i started streaming in 2020 because i was such an extrovert and i was like oh go on the big c had kicked in at that point yeah and i was like fuck man like i can't hang out with my friends right now like you know i was trying to be you know safe and whatever and so i'm like well let me just get a couple web cameras for 35 bucks and put them over top of my silver ball mania and see who pops in and next thing you know like people were popping in people were rating me and then eventually i upgraded to the camera to new cameras and i was buying more pinball machines and i would just stream whatever and i make little flyers as if they were like you know show flyers and and then i i met huck challenge and i met uh carl you know i remember i have a clip on my instagram where i.e pinball raided me for the first time and i just i was playing walking dead and i'm like oh hey oh hey there's a new person and it was just new people popping in more and more and then i'm just like oh shit there's like 95 people that just came in and i'm like yo and it was i remember on you know carl was like carl and ron and rucko and and uh huff chow they were all like celebrities in my eyes because like marissa and i my wife we would just like have dinner and watch all these people and you know spend the night drinking and being in the chaff you know it's like it's like really cool comfort family times you know you get to watch carl like blow up the fucking machine you know you watch up challenge you're watching them like all their quirky rewards and stuff like that and it's just like i feel like you're part of community and i think that that that's that's the good side of what streaming and and covid kind of brought because what we're i think what we're talking about here and what we you and i spoke about at the beginning of our kind of shindig is there was a there was a split that occurred around when streaming pinball became a mainstream kind of thing and i'll use the term mainstream kind of lightly but it created the idea of sharing pinball culture with people and the idea of kind of like pinball celebrityness and You've already kind of mentioned this right now. And so this is, I think, where we hit the divide of where pinball culture has lost a lot of its grassroots of being in locations. Because now more than ever, like people have home collections. I mean, we've seen this with Stern talking about 70 percent of their market is going to home collectors. you you lack that dive bar mentality where you would go and just hang out with people you know hang out on top of a fathom that has seen you know for 50 000 plays and is all beat to shit you know or a lord of the rings where both flippers can't even make it up the center ramp so i i guess my question is you know let's talk about your colorful statements about pinball authenticity i feel like you've mentioned that there are certain people that are in the pinball ecosystem right now that aren't really doing it for like pinball as like a hobby to promote it but doing it for clout and it's a worthy discussion yeah so i felt like i was alone in this and and that's why i started putting it out there because um i always like say that i'm like a larry david and i i get annoyed by things that maybe i shouldn't get annoyed about but i just can't help myself and then I have to tell everybody then I have to rant and you know and then that's when I start getting in trouble but as I started posting these things about you know these new this new era of pinfluencers and uh like there was there's there's a lot of people and a lot of ogs and a lot of just a lot of people are like yeah that's embarrassing that's And it's just so apparent that a lot of these newer content creators are chasing clout. And there's the genuine... I started streaming because I needed friends. You know what I mean? I needed friends. Community friends. And once I started getting a little more popular in my streaming, the world opened up and I was like okay fuck this I don't you know I was making like 200 bucks a month in Twitch right like which is nothing but like it was like oh that's cool you know whatever but I could still be doing that if I wanted to but I was like the world opened up I'm gonna go play tournaments I'm gonna go to Expo I'm gonna go to Pintastic I'm gonna go to Pint Baltimore you know I'm gonna go to all these places as much as I can to go see these people in real life where the new guys that are coming in are all of a sudden, now pinball is so niche that everybody knows everybody. So when a new person comes in with fucking you know, 10 LEs or premiums or just even brand new pros and a $10,000 set up one with cameras and shit, all of a sudden it's like, now we're supposed to listen to what they have to say and what their opinion is and these reviews on pinball and and the reviews on the gameplay when you watch these guys and it's like dude like why didn't you dead flip why didn't you drop catch like why are you only getting like a hundred million at your like why are you sharing 200 million as your fucking high score like and and having people like clap about it and it's like does this really grow pinball because like i don't know like you can probably we could probably go back and forth on that all day but like i don't know like pinball is well that's the next question what's the authentic pinball experience to you because i think that the people that you know twitch has created a lazy method of exposing yourself to stuff right you can click on just stuff and just see what's going on and to go out to a bar to meet people to talk to strangers for a lot of people that are maybe socially awkward that's tough so i think that a lot of these content creators that you're talking about like provide like a safe space for people to come on and talk to them and see them play pinball but as someone who knows a lot about pinball is that an authentic experience yeah i mean you yeah you can say that totally i i agree with that but also then you know you can see, you can say, Hey, like, here's this 21 year old that's seeing this 45 year old, just like have the best of the best of the best talking about sales and talking about this and talking about that, talking about boats. And, and we're like, well, where the fuck are we? We're not even in the same fucking tax bracket. So why you, he is not me. You know, he like, he didn't go out in the trenches and play these fucked up machines until he was actually good you know like he wasn't going out to the fucking tournaments and and meeting people like whatever like i think it becomes this what's the tutorial for people to find what you would consider authentic pinball content right like if someone's new to the hobby instead of steering them to streamers that are you know only putting out content of like whatever the latest game is and bitching and moaning about, you know, why the latest Stern is good or bad. How, what is the proper introduction to pinball in your mind? There is no proper introduction. There is not. So like, I remember when I was getting into pinball podcasting, I was listening to, uh, um, Zach and Greg and they were still new at it at the time. And I was like, so, but they weren't like, they were talking about it, but not in such a way of, like, an influencing kind of deal. Like, they still had shitty cameras, shitty audio, you know, they were just getting into it and being like, hey, like, what do you guys think? You know, like, whatever. And it's like, but these guys that are, like, being invited to Stern and telling us what this, that, and the other thing is, it's like it's so homogenized and you can just you can just tell the the that they're they're chasing that clout they're not in it to to to be real they saw that hey pinball is a small thing if i just do you know drop a hundred grand i can be popular sure you know what i'm saying like and i don't think that people need to be good at pinball to be entertaining and inclusive to people though and i think that yeah but when the guy's not talking and only draining because he's focusing on trying to keep the ball alive so hard that there's nothing going on and then he's talking while the game is just on idle you know it's like what are we doing here what are we doing here and it's just a constant hey uh this and this and this and this and it's like dude we already fucking know this shit like and i'm sorry but like there's so much um there's so much content already created to find those things that it's like it's kind of beating a dead horse and it's making all of us like i wouldn't even say that i'm an og i'm just saying it's making all of us go oh jesus christ if i try to show this to you know a friend in the punk scene they're going to be like
    20:06
    you're friends with this fucking cul-de-sac rocker you're listening to this fucking guy who's talking about thirteen thousand dollar fucking toys and he can't even play the fucking thing what are you what are you doing dude like sure well you know this is a good opportunity to involve chat and i do i recommend chat this is a this is a round table discussion for lack of a better comparison because i i mean i don't agree with a whole lot of what you're saying because i do think that you don't need to be like people come on to streams to hang out with people Just like you were saying where you would have Carl and Hup Challenge in the background just to hang out. A lot of times when I'm watching Hup Challenge, they're not putting up banging scores. They're just trying to be inclusive. And I think that just having a good repertoire with the people that you're playing with, whether they're watching, is authentic pinball content. Whether it's good or bad performance, I think authenticity is what really matters when it comes to online. that's just one of the the bad performance it's just one of the
    21:05
    subcategories on why i'm pissed off about all this pinfluencing shit like it shouldn't even be a fucking word really you know it's a pretty awful word i totally agree with you the entire concept of influencer culture though is it's unavoidable at this point because i feel like brands use it as an advertising platform and you brought up stern you know with their media day I mean, Media Day exists because they are bringing people that have an online presence to help bring and seed their new game. And I think that's modern advertising. Like, that's what Stern should be doing. I get it but like I know a lot of people that went there and obviously not going to name names but it just they were like it fucking weird The whole vibe is weird You know, the whole thing is just, you know, there's no, like they just say it's a big fucking circle trip, you know? And that's what it is. Like when I went to expo, okay. I love the tournament scene. We're fouling out. I'm getting drunk. There was, Escher was making fun of me for like completely shitting the bed on Elvira because I was wasted on Fox city stream. You know, you should have played better on Elvira to be fair. That was embarrassing. Just saying it was, it was terrible. And, and, uh, I, I was double fisting fucking trulys and it was the lyrics, but like, I still made it in the a division, you know, like whatever, but like, so people are saying that authenticity is the new currency. says thank you for calling out the amount of weird pinball content on instagram so i think that you are vocalizing a lot of what people are kind of not frustrated with but like there is a lot of content that feels disingenuous on instagram and youtube these days and as i'm speaking about this like you you mentioned to me before we before we went live that like well why would you waste your time on this and it's like i don't you mentioned going on a stream that you were like i hate this stream and i'm just like don't don't go on it then like why no no i i don't hate i i like like what i will i i do hate it what i'm saying is i don't waste time on it i i pop in and i see like five minutes of this shit and i'm like i'm rolling my eyes and i just take a clip and i'll throw the most embarrassing clip up on a story that only lasts 24 hours you know and i'm just like look at this this is fucking ridiculous why what how is this growing pinball when you know this somebody's talking about fucking getting drunk off of one drink and having fried chicken like as this wild thing dude i was snorting coke off of beatles and mooning the fucking stream you know what i'm saying like that that was like not saying that a lot i do respect that but i also think that there's a lot of people that don't walk that lifestyle and that there are things about those streams that you know yeah what i'm saying i don't i don't like think that everybody should do that i'm just i'm just saying like it's just embarrassing like like you know those like people that you hang out with and like you if you bring to a party and they're like oh yeah he's cool and he starts talking and you get that like that teary eye and the hot ears and you're just like oh you know what i mean like i do i've been to those parties for sure yeah like but i'm just like fuck i really back to my original question like we can't trans people we can't you know you and i talked about like my first exposure to to like pinball on like a massive scale that wasn't just growing up you know was going to pinball molly's fucking punk rock fucking studio that was hiding in the back of you know this giant punk rock studio in echo park and uh i wish that everybody's introduction to pinball could be that but those places and those moments are just a little drop in you know history they don't exist permanently so without without there being like more and more locations that provide an authentic pinball experience and i and i'm i'm hesitant on calling it authentic because i don't think that there's anything wrong with these pinball broadcasts that you're saying i don't like it when a content producer is disingenuous or when their pinball content doesn't feel authentic but who gives a shit if they're not any good and and they don't know anything and they do have a lot of money to buy a bunch of alleys like to me i don't i'm not going to watch those streams regularly because i don't get much from that personally but I think that there are people that may have not ever seen a pinball machine and that is a gateway now they know what a pinball machine is they've seen somebody stream it and that's fine to me but they will never know the experience of being in a bar hanging out with friends that you know like you said fucking standing over like a future spa or some other horribly mean game you know or some giant wide body they may not even know what another what a wide body even means and experience pinball in like kind of a more pure form like that but history is like that there's so many different historical like people talking about going and watching star wars in the movie theater well people sit at home and watch streaming platforms now and watch those films and you're not getting the same that's that same experience so should they not do that at all you know no no that's not what i'm saying i'm like all i'm saying is it's a simple fact of these dudes are embarrassing and i don't think that it's If there's one person that gets a hobby, cool, whatever. What, like, why are we so hyper-focused on growing the hobby when these guys are showing you that they have, like, fucking TV production shit in their basement of a $100,000 collection? How is that growing the hobby when you're showing that this is a rich man hobby, right? like like this whole like growing the hobby bullshit is just like yo like who gives a fuck let's just keep playing pinball like why i don't know i disagree with that because pinball has been on the chopping block multiple times for people not yeah but it's the only um it's the only umbrella that these guys have though that's the problem the thing is these all these like what we used to call uh new new inbox noobs the nib noobs where like they were paying yeah they were paying top dollar and then they would go and flip for even more and then the companies saw that and then the companies started doing so like now we're at fucking fifteen thousand dollars for a new in box machine how the fuck is that growing the hobby it is frustrating that you could buy a pinball machine for five or six hundred dollars you know 20 years ago i remember buying my road kings for like 450 on craigslist and uh it is harder for people to get into the hobby because pinball is more prohibitively expensive than it ever was now when you when you go into these streams it's almost like walking into a rich person's house when you rent okay and you feel just that little bit of like I'm not on their level you know there is a an underlying class thing that's going on where when you walk into these streams you go I'm just wow wow you know like who cares though because those people aren't getting the experience of like hoveling over a future spa in a bar yeah to me that's like a more valuable experience than standing in front of a you know I mean like obviously I stand in front of expensive sterns and play pinball as well but like you know to me like the more uh worthwhile experience is going to play at league like playing it on tilter ace go year whatever standing over cheetah that's been seen some shit and it's got more fucking burn marks in the in the play field and wear marks than you know any game i've ever seen i'm just going off i know i'm just going off of what you were saying about well that's like somehow like that's the gateway of getting into this hobby and i know a lot of people that go like pinball people don't like the the hobby doesn't grow from streaming even pinball players don't even like watching streaming half the fucking time right so i hope you've really nailed another important point and i want to chime in on what chat's been saying here too is that like it's not on the streamers to grow pinball and yeah it's it's really down to people that want pinball arcades and of course the manufacturers um you know like how do you feel about pokemon then let's let's just let's talk about that it's cool it's cool but like a huge franchise you know stern's stern's production line for the rest of the year like they've sold out of their pokemon like yeah that's great i love it for sure i love it but how many but how many of those machines are going to only be in a hole sure you know 70 according to stern yeah yeah exactly so So if there's 70% of people that are owning these things, that means there's going to be a smaller percentage of people that are actually going to be able to play these fucking things. Sure, although I think with Pokemon, more operators are going to pick it up with the intention of trying to make money, which is fine. Operators need to make money to run the location.
    30:36
    Dude, I want these locations to make money as much as possible. I think Pokemon was a very good move, which that's why I made fun of CERN for posting up Aaron Lewis right after they dropped the fucking IP and they dropped fucking Mr. Acoustic Maga because he was wearing a fucking sweatshirt that everybody else has. But that's besides the point. But I'm just like, that was a dumb fucking marketing move. Who's in your fucking marketing team that you let that happen? Luckily, they deleted it, but it was just like, holy shit, here we go again. we put out pokemon and then we put out a fucking video of this mega asshole like no matter what the politics are like that like just keep it out of you know what i'm saying sure you know black says god help us when fortnite pinball comes i mean that's i honestly inevitable at some point you know the the franchises that are so big if they can be acquired the ip can be acquired a pinball company is going to make a pinball machine like that but i i guess who cares all of these old games are always going to exist i don't really care about theme as much as just like if it's a good shooter it's a good shooter like john i've never even seen one of those movies and i think that's one of my favorite spike twos of all time oh my that's a shooter's fucking game that's a real rejection speed i fucking hate that game the rejection speed on those shots is so brutal they're worse than the shadow that left ramp on the shadow has less of a fucking super reject than all the ramps on fucking John Wick combined.
    32:11
    Supposedly, the King of Flow says to play better then. Steve Ritchie can say all the things he wants. And no, he's not the King of Flow, by the way. Jack Danger is, because Foo Fighters is flowier than any fucking Steve Ritchie. I'll put that till the day I fucking die. And I don't even like that. I hate the Foo Fighters. I think Dave bro is a corporate spineless piece of shit but but that game but the machine shoots good you'd be surprised at how much theme matters to a lot of people i'm in a similar camp to you where like i just kind of don't give a king kong's a good example like i don't really care about giant apes but i like the way that it flows i think it's a really unique shooting game and to me the rules and how you stack points and stuff matters more than that obviously sounds important for me but you know i digress yeah i guess kind of what i'm fishing at here is that i think what's important about pinball matters just to the individual and i think that your your vocalness about how authenticity needs to come back a bit in pinball content is important but i just i divert from your both philosophy when it comes down to what pinball should or shouldn't be for certain people i just don't think that that's fair pinball is pinball is what you make you know right so I say these things on my platform because that's how I feel about it. And if somebody wants to disagree with me, hey, let's have a beer about it. Let's have a fucking fun debate like you and I are having. I got a question for you then. Out of these three pinball machines, what do you think is the best classic?
    33:53
    Raven? raven raven was my first pinball machine ever i know that's why i'm kind of spicing it up for this seeing those photos of you loading raven into your fucking car on instagram like as soon as i saw that i immediately was like okay we have to have this conversation because we got a fellow raven over here so uh that raven uh i got from a dude in jersey he wasn't even part of pinball it was in a basement of an apartment complex and we couldn't put the head down because we didn't find we couldn't find the keys to fold the head down so we put it in diagonally in the tour van which we used to call cherry blue and uh and we drove it home and then i we we picked it up like like like a fucking coffin and walked it right into my house put the legs on it bam and then eventually i was like okay let me like before i even knew about mods i was like i'm gonna make the flippers black i'm gonna uh make all the t-molding red i'm gonna buy a like some toy assault rifle from amazon spray paint it black make that the topper and put more money into raven than raven cost i bought it for 500 bucks working like it was had all new wire like like dude the thing was beautiful um but i put maybe um like not even a hundred bucks into it because i painted the flippers uh i painted blood on the guys that were dead on the playfield i uh spray painted i took off the helicopter and spray painted it gold and then i painted the t molding red sure it was a complete shit job but um and then i sold it for 750 bucks i mean i know you are a pinball flipper you made i'm a you made 250 off right i paid 250 and then i went and bought a harlem globetrotters oh well okay that's honestly a pretty big upgrade yeah yeah harlem globetrotters technically is the best game ever if you think about it I mean, I've thought about it and I don't think that, but... Well, here's the thing. It has everything that a pinball machine needs and every technical thing that you need to know about pinball. Sure. It's got spinners. I do like that. It's got drop targets. I do like that.
    36:33
    It's got two scoops or saucers, I should say. It's like the raisin brand of pinball, really, if you think about it. Yeah, it's got the double flippers. So you work on the double flipper. it's got the regular half of the italian bottom right so it's got everything that it just doesn't have ramps but everything else it has it also plays the harlem globetrotter theme in in amazing chiptune fashion yeah and you know what's funny um uh we used to uh say this on my stream all the time well i used to say it um but i put it out there to hundreds of people and everybody knows my aunt is very proud but the original harlem globetrotters uh played in allentown and my aunt was a groupie back in the day so she like she fucked eric clapton mark boland and like she's proud of it like i'm not like putting it out there it's like interesting that's a strange thing to be proud of but okay i'm i'm no i'm proud of her dude like if she likes dick fucking let's go like yeah if guys can high five about it why can't women right no like she your grandma sounds you know i'm saying very virile like yeah so so my aunt karen she fucking she banged all the rock stars except for jim morrison and she's upset that she didn't beg jim morrison okay i was like why did she draw the line there which she was like i don't like the doors like i'm not doing that no she loved the doors that's why she was so upset and uh she got trained she got train ran on her by the original harlem glove trotters by at least four one in after the other that's pretty amazing it's fucking awesome were they did they slam dunk on her like probably uh they you know dribbled they did and you know i wanted to print out a picture in my mind i'm hearing i'm hearing the harlem globetrotter theme and they're like tagging each other in and out while your poor grandma is just getting like dominated my hand i'm sorry i you know yeah no no if it was my grandmother it would just be kind of whistle the tune the whole time i'm drunk 242 that's amazing uh yeah so um i wanted to get a picture of her and make that the topper um but i wanted to get a picture of your aunt getting steamrolled by the harlem glow trotters as the topper on it just just a beautiful headshot oh okay i mean honestly you could probably get a nice 3d printed like scene you know like not like a crush scene but more like my aunt's getting tag teamed by a lot of basketball players kind of scene you know yeah no yeah i just wanted just a random picture of a blonde woman that's all i wanted just any blonde woman well of my hair but to other people would be a blonde woman so if they walked in my house and saw that as a topic they're going what's that well let me tell you you know i have a story for you here play this game while i tell you about my aunt getting steamrolled um yeah yeah okay interesting so would you build your collection off of of people that you're out to set sex with because i feel like that's that's a collection to have a story behind i would love to have my collection be tunnel buddies with my aunt karen hell yeah is she still around oh yeah okay maybe we got to get her on the stream um i'm just saying hey let's talk about yeah okay anyways so uh yeah chad there's a few the nuclear has a uh a statement way back saying that that when i was working me working in the video game industry i know how much of a cancer fortnight is and yeah there's trends when something starts making money it can derail authenticity it can derail kind of like design philosophy i mean there's a reason that pokemon is a fan layout it's because they wanted people to have an easier time shooting it and there's nothing wrong with that you know there's plenty of fan layouts right yeah there's great fan layouts all the way i mean the evil madness attack from margaret there's so many good fan layouts when everybody talks shit about that i'm like you stupid fuck like stern is not the one that's supposed to be out here being like growing pinball we are the people that are like i don't mean to sound fucking stupid and political but like we are the people that are supposed to grow a pinball you know and like That's what this conversation is about. Yeah, and growing pinball is about real-life situations.
    41:19
    This whole thing that started me being on here was internet pinball right now is just embarrassing. It's just embarrassing because it's the equivalent of them going like,
    41:39
    You know, like the food influencers and this influencer, and it's just the equivalent of that. And it's like, is it damaging pinball? No. Is it growing pinball? I don't really think so. If a couple people get into it, cool, but I'm not going to applaud them just because a couple other people like bad shit. You know, like if you like whoever I'm talking about, it's like, okay, you got bad taste, maybe you're new, maybe you're just, you know, you just got bad taste and whatever. and cool you're gonna i hope that you go out and go play pinball and and be in the trenches of supporting actual locations that put out pinball you know instead of you had said something in our preview like in our privy talk where we were speaking about how certain influencers were asking questions about what their content watchers wanted to see and that that was an immediate red flag to you and i think that's a really both a good point and also something for people that are just getting into streaming that like the first thing i learned is like you just got to be yourself the people that are coming to watch the content want to be not tricked into a persona like i think on authenticity is really the the as much as you're preaching about like people should or shouldn't be doing this in terms of like whether they're good at pinball or should be saying that like i think what you're really just saying is that like being on authentic individual is is much more important than being a than being an influencer and i and i couldn't agree more with that jack danger got to where he's at today in pinball because he was super authentic you saw his old streams back when he was streaming at fucking um logan arcade or or what the other one um can even think of the other bar that i went to but uh i remember he was streaming Playboy Okay Stern Playboy This was back in like 2016
    43:36
    And he like, or maybe even 2015, who knows? And he like had my buddy chase who's in like punk rock bands and stuff play. And he was just invited. Like people were like, yo, what's all this camera shit. And he's like, Oh yo, I'm just like playing to the internet. and there was probably like maybe 10 people on you know and he has i mean that was interium but yeah no no it wasn't interium it was some it was some other bar in chicago i forget what it's called they have a bunch of pinball machines i still think that's there to this day but anyway what i'm saying is like he had his whole thing like his personality like stern now like was like you have such a great he was he's the best personality of pinball because it was it's still pretty clean there was some like like a little bit of edge to it you know not too much to be like fuck this guy but like there wasn't really any like crazy opinion it was just more of just playing the game and he had his whole little lingo and you know that says i don't like punk rock so you have bad taste and i think that there's an honest not that that's a criticism to you but like if all pinball streams were cool kids doing it making authentic content i feel like that that's almost as exclusive as you know this brigade of people that are making kind of like an authentic content punk rock is bad taste but also like you know watching a dude that looks like he's a fucking model for quicksilver is also bad taste i'm not saying that everybody should be like and that's a that's the other problem in internet pinball is these people hop on and they grab on to one thing that you say and they make it your whole thing it's like that's not what i'm saying i'm not i don't want anybody else to be punk rock and pinball i want to be the only punk rock you are the you're the most punk rock person in pinball that i'm aware of just like jack danger is the most ska person in pinball that i'm aware of yeah yeah and like and i said Jack like I said Jack like like stupid Scott memes and shit like like and it like he just he like he was the person that brought pinball streaming authenticity to life sure now it's being like watered down you know like that's what that's all I'm saying is that it's just being watered down hey look at how big my dick is I got this Ellie I got this fucking $5,000 camera come into my stream and you know I mean like but i don't think anybody's fooled by that though i mean like nobody sees a lamborghini dude driving by and thinks like man that man's penis is enormous you know like it's just you know it's really up to the viewer to make the decision of whether that content's for them or not yeah well most people are not like that i mean i i would say most people in pinball joe from pinball degenerates just said he wants to be the most adult contemporary persona in pinball that's true i would like to be the most bow house person in pinball personally like that's or impressionistic person in pinball that's my jam yeah hell yeah yeah like i i just you know i have my opinion and if somebody wants to disagree fine i don't care i'm not right i'm not right about anything but i am i know that i am right about just the the not genuine part of this new era of pinfluencing. Sure. Sean says that he hears you but thinks that this is a good problem to have, right? He's like, every big thing gets new posers, so there must be doing something right. So does that mean that pinball is on the ups? Did we do it? Did we solve it? Is pinball mainstream now?
    47:28
    No. I mean, like, that's a good thing to... That's definitely making lemonade. But, like, I'm half a fucking boozer, so I don't really like lemonade unless there's vodka in it.
    47:44
    Sure. Or gin. Don't discriminate. So, like, I don't know. I just, I think it's fine. It's fine. Somebody gets into it, cool, whatever, from that stream, whatever. I'm just saying don't like it's just annoying that I don't even follow these people and the shit is popping up on my feed I know it's the algorithm thing but you can tell that there's also probably money going on it to fucking have it be up on your fucking shit to spread in the word spread in the word well you know I mean this is one reason why I wanted you on because I think that people that share your philosophy it's it's nice to have this checks and balances in any hobby and that there needs to be people that aren't afraid to be vocal about certain things that may be right or wrong or good or bad for the hobby at least the discussion to be had yeah like people say like oh but but he's nice well you know what i grew up in the jehovah witness religion they were really nice until they wanted to fuck you when you were a kid you know what i'm saying did they steamroll your aunt no because she like left pretty early on but like but you know what i'm saying like you know people that want when they have another agenda they're gonna be really nuts you know a salesman is gonna be really fucking nuts you You know what I mean? So like nice is not enough. You know, like why don't you just go be nice to your local community instead of trying to be nice to the world? So Demod said something that I think really nails it. He says the algorithm is or she said, I don't know, the algorithm is causing those streams to have a larger voice and drown out the grassroots. That's true. The streams that have higher engagement are for sure seeded more. And if the content that is being seeded more is that kind of content, it is going to drown out people that are like, for example, like I love jumping on Twitch and finding streams that have one or two people. It looks like somebody is rocking, you know, a Logitech camera from the 1950s. You know, there's like a like a hand crank in order to power it and just see what they're doing, because I think that without people supporting those kind of streams, then they'll never grow to become something that more people could or could watch. but if YouTube and Twitch was just promoting algorithms for the other streams yeah I mean what it comes down to is like we know that some of these guys are getting paid from certain places from certain companies and that's fine like we've talked about it before that's fine but just be real about it like you just gotta be real like why don't you instead of like reviewing the new walking dead why don't you just be real about and be like yo like i can't believe that this thing was in 2014. this thing was actually 2014 and there's nothing
    50:52
    like like this was like really cool back in 2014 i wish i was a part of the hobby in 2014. i hated that game when it came out for similar reasons that i can't stand john wick but yeah i've learned i've learned to love the walking dead since then but whatever I love that fucking game I fucking love that game and I wish Borg I think every layout needs at least one more chance with another theme and you know how Borg always does like two or three of the same layouts but with different little nuances and whatever I hope that he like I was hoping that Turtles was gonna be fucking you know Walking Dead I was hoping that Rush was gonna be because the geometry on Walking Dead is as complicated as a rush song you know sure i think rush's layout is but i think that's probably borg's best game in the last like 15 years or 20 years easily i mean yeah it's x-men with austin powers yeah yeah that's all it is but but with an austin powers time machine but at a time when there's been a lot of fan layouts i mean that is like the least fan possible layout that you could possibly go into yeah yeah like russia was a is a great game it just like the the risk reward is a little too much for people you know i know the code is like it's tough you know um i i remember i had a i had a stream where when like the day of i think or yeah it was like the day of 2112 came out and i had 19.9 billion and i fucking double drained right down the middle there's a clip of it and I'm like damn when I got to 2112 twice I streamed one game for three hours it was fucking awesome and uh I just you know going back to the pinfluencer thing it's just like just own it like stop trying to fucking like influence people and just be here just exist you know what I mean like just be real you know like if you're going to get paid by a company to say yo this hobby is so great that the company hired me because i have the ability to fucking do the shit the company hired me to do something for you know what i mean like well i mean i think that those companies are gravitating i know who you're referring to at this point but you know i think the companies are gravitating towards them because of their production quality to make sure that they have the best possible looking venue for their stuff. And I would argue that you don't need a polished venue for a thing to connect to people. Like people don't need an absolute slick looking podcast or a slick looking, you know, whatever pinball thing in order to connect to it. I have one for sure, but that comes from the experience of like what my day job is more than anything. We're talking with people that just own boats and they buy all this stuff and they have no idea what they're doing, but they figure it out. It's just, if you're creating a platform for people to connect to a hobby. To me, that's great. It doesn't matter whether it looks good or bad. And it's on the advertisers that are not putting effort into smaller streams and creating a grassroots scenario. That just comes from old mentality. And that's, I think, manufacturers need to change it up and realize that we are in a modern era. Social media is about smaller channels. It's about smaller groups of people in a niche hobby. And they should be supporting them as well.
    54:22
    See, the one thing that Canada, was right about, well, I mean, besides a lot of other things, even though he's wrong about some things, that Stern, like, shit like Stern, like, companies like Stern forgot about, like, it seems like they forgot about the OGs. Right. Oh. you know they they like they forgot about the the people that have made this hobby what it is today the people that have put this hobby on their back and kept it going you know and like for instance like i was becoming you know whatever i was becoming before i stopped and they wanted to do this whole thing with my wife and I's wedding, which I have a pinball ring.
    55:23
    It just looks like a regular ring from here. No, this ring is made out of a pinball. Oh, that's awesome. So my wife did it. She sent a pinball that was just laying around and sent it out to a forger. The dude did it, and then inside it's sterling silver, and then outside is the actual pinball and steel yeah and like um you know they wanted to do this whole thing on it and whatever and then instead and we had 10 machines at our wedding and we had rod and rucko we had hup challenge there we we had like a whole table that was just of pinball people and streamers you know and like it was all this was back in 2022 and it was awesome and they just like they built like they emailed me and said oh we want to do this we want to do that and blah blah and instead they just posted up some yuppie couple with one pinball machine
    56:25
    you know because it was a yuppie couple with one pinball machine do you need to have a lot of that fucking couple was nobody knows them it looked like a fucking stock photo you know and it's like wait no dude like i'm just do they need clout now i'm getting mixed messages though because you're saying like no no no no no no what i'm saying is that like they're not going to the homegrown people you know like that's why these new guys are in the factory being invited instead of some other guy that buys LEs for the last fucking 15 years. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're... It's just, oh, this guy got a really nice camera. Let's get him in. This guy got a really nice camera. Let's get him in. And it's like, okay, but like, why don't you just have, like, a little sect of people that, like, actually, like, why don't you get a couple arcade rats? Why don't you get a couple people that are a little more opinionated? You know, I'm not saying me. I'm just saying what you were saying about i do think that having more like a diversity of the people that come from different cultures of pinball because there are that you've got your tournament players you've got your you know the people that just have stacks and stacks of le's at their home you've got your punk rock community people you know you have your ob-gq people you have literally there's so many different little pockets of pinball culture and uh but that's on the manufacturer that they should bring them in there but not every single one of those people has a representative that has a platform that they can speak for that group. And also, you've got to take on a lot of pressure to be a representative for any group. So I think that people watching this, if you are of a certain clique of pinball, maybe it's time to build a platform and represent that area of pinball. And if Stern's watching this, or JJP, or Barrels, it's on the companies to invite those people to also represent pinball even if they don't have a platform because word of mouth is a powerful thing yeah like so many people are like dude why don't you start a podcast dude why don't you start a podcast why don't you go back to streaming i'm you know and i'm just like because i don't want to be that like i want to be with the people i want to be with my local people i want to be with the people down at railroad i want to be with the people at the pinball gallery i want to be with the people at rock fantasy like i don't want to become this thing where it's like i don't know it just when you spend so much time and like these guys like no matter what i said they put hard work into you put hard work into like i know how hard it is to deal with pinball stream pinball streaming is the biggest fucking pain in the ass that i could ever even think of especially being a being a drummer where all i had to do was set up my drums now i gotta fucking deal with all the usbs and fucking wires it's very it's very similar to that man you know you got cameras and cables and wires everywhere it's like you're micing each fucking drum it's similar to like cameraing each fucking moment yeah yeah and then the editing and then the editing and like like dude it's it's a fucking pain in the ass it's hard work these guys that's one thing that i will give these guys that they put in this hard work you know uh but like it's like why don't you just like my company i have a painting company called fathom painting uh i dropped it before you did um yeah we were gonna not that i'm like thinking that anybody from the lehigh valley is fucking watching this but like what i'm what i'm saying is like my company i have a little instagram a Facebook. I don't really post. You can see the last time I posted on that shit. It's all word of mouth. And I have such a good reputation.
    60:10
    People know that when I'm done with the job, I'm going to swiffer their floors just so it looks picture perfect when they walk in. So that person, the dude that's fucking draining all the time talking about his fucking books,
    60:26
    that person's not going to care as much as the guy that's in the arcade going i can't wait till my arcade gets that new pinball machine i can't wait till they get john i can't wait till they get pokemon and and i'm gonna love this and i'm gonna hate it i don't know but whatever i can't wait for the next pinball machine we all can't wait you know and it's like that matters more than the dude with fucking a hundred thousand dollar collection in his basement. I think that matters more because those operators are going to benefit from that. And that's really who drives, before the players, it's the operators that drive this hobby. Because they make it accessible. Sure. And I've said before on other podcasts that the operators that make sure that all their games are actually working 100%, they're the real fucking heroes. Because you go down to Vegas and 99% of those you got what there's like 400 fucking games there and three of them work like yeah and then they yell at you when there's a fucking extra credit left on and somebody goes up and fuck them no can't get my 50 cents fuck off it's ridiculous yeah yeah like like operators like the uh the people that run holy free holies down in baltimore they care about pinball you know how much they care about pinball that fucking classics thing that i just put up a story of the first big showing I had, I got third, up against Trent Augustine back in 2019. They didn't even have a tilt bob in their fucking Harlem Globetrotters. Sure. You know what I'm saying? Because they were like, yo, this is pinball. Pinball doesn't have to be for fucking nerds. You know, like, Jake and Jeff are, like, some of my most, like, respected operators because they just like they know what pinball should be and it's just a community so here do me a favor as someone who has such a deep amount of experience in terms of all of these niche spots i know you're going to do your post that's that's shagging on certain influencers can you do a post that has like a huge list of just underappreciated locations and operators that are awesome add me to it and let's get the word out that there are that these places should be checked out and that these locations are legit i mean look at electric bat arcade for example sure kail and rachel spot no i mean like you're wearing their shirt right now i do have an electric bat shirt someone who was a fan of my channel picked it up and brought it to me at league which is another community driven thing but yeah i yeah and i've never even been there and i feel like i'm a part that community because of their pocket now with some of the things that they promote on the side shit of what we were all talking shit about whatever you know that whatever but they care about pinball yeah i don't you cannot it is undeniable that uh that rachel and kale are building a community of people that care about pinball and you can see it when you do their live streams it's not a manufactured like it's an authentic pinball experience whether you like you know how it's being presented or not yeah do you know like so i i uh i worked part-time for an art a local arcade that kind of went to shit but um and i i um i've watched their podcast and because their podcast was so operator driven which one because they have a few because the one that the one that can't rachel talk about where they talk about earnings reports and stuff like that like i think that's really unique because it helps give an insight of what it's like to own and operate an arcade that fits a different niche than just like complaining about new games and whatnot where a lot of influencers are doing that kind of content 100 and like and when i watched that podcast from the first episode i was like damn this is probably the best pinball podcast because it's showing a whole nother side besides silver ball chronicles that's really cool because of history and whatever i think surgeon kale's pin pals is also really good too because they talk about kind of like in-depth rule advantage like it's just it's a different edge of pinball presentation again that isn't just about pinball marketing and i think if i had to trim down what you don't like and i totally agree with you it's like the stock market of pinballs where people like basically talk up and down pinball machines to try to like talk about its price inflation and stuff instead of what really matters it's like is the game fun yeah yeah yeah and i mean granted there is a space for that there is a need for that right I mean you know like I I do like I'm only calling out the people that I do like obviously and like or that I just I can remember but like loser kid when they do that whole thing Josh like the the like that cool like there there is a space for that you know like that cool for people to learn go okay i can really afford that but maybe i can afford this one or oh wow that's going down maybe i'll save up for it you know what i mean like shit like that the information is presented authentically you know you can tell that he really cares about that as like his niche in the pinball kind of like community yeah like like everybody has their niche in the community. It's just some of the new ones that I have a problem with that are the loudest.
    65:46
    That's all I'm saying. If you like it, cool, but why don't you just come to my house? This is a dangerous open invite. All right, Internet, you heard it right now. If you want to get into pinball, you can head over to Cliff's house.
    66:04
    Yeah, so every pin fest we my wife and I have a big party last year it was like 50-60 people there's just it's a fucking complete degenerate party that's the only time I stream anymore is when I have that party we stream from Thursday night till Saturday night every night like during pin fest and we just we get wild and Saturday night is the real wild party so you know like somebody brought a fucking four-foot tank of nitrous so everybody's walking around with a balloon and a beer i'm walking around with a tray of fucking blow it's just it's fucking nuts and we're doing stall ball and we're doing dollar games till five and we were throwing 20 i think we threw 50 down on kiss valley you know like it was like stupid we get so fucked up i have a modification for a new one since carl vandalized my game by throwing socks on it in the middle of it. I suggest that you play Tommy Socks, which is pretty fun where everybody has to take their socks off and throw it on the glass instead of... It's like a free version of Tommy Dollars. You know what I'm saying?
    67:17
    I like that. Tommy Socks. That's right there. That's what we should be doing. We shouldn't be listening to what's new and how it is. We'll know how it plays when it gets on location.
    67:32
    Let's play some fucking Tommy Socks. Let's play Tommy Socks. Dude, you know what? We're going to do that at the Warlock Pinball Party. On stream, we're going to play fucking Tommy Socks. Dude, I will be there, either online or probably not in person, but I will definitely be there online. I will take my socks off in solidarity.
    67:52
    Yeah. That's the kind of shit that that's what grows pinball. I really believe. Dude, our last pinball party, a lot of the people weren't even pinball people like there was a good i should say a good portion of people that weren't even pinball people and they were just like what the fuck like this is the pinball community i think i should go play some more any size drain god damn right yes such a part of the pinball philosophy i think is getting exposed to but it's like when someone tries to expose you to a movie and you're not paying attention or something like you just Sometimes you just need to be exposed to something in the right kind of experience in order for it to catch off. Yeah. So, all right. What's Jack saying? For the most part, people are just talking about socks and degenerates. Asavet has a comment, though. He's like, I'm hating watching at this point. I've invested over $100,000 into pinball and genuinely love it. I think that's awesome. I don't think that finances is a separator for pinball like you do, Cliff. I think if people have the money to buy pinball machines, they're just making an opportunity for more people to either come over and play their collections and or they're supporting the pinball companies and then there's going to be more pinball. So he's new. I play a lot. I support creators. Hold on. Awesome. It's taken my pinball on my pyramid, both on trips to pinball at the beach. And I appreciate every bit of his support. And I don't think that just because someone has a lot of money doesn't mean that they should be excluded from a pinball hobby. so I hear you Asavet somehow he's not punk rock enough he disagrees with that so I think that's a very legit point Cliff what's your retort to that I'm not punk rock enough? No that's what's wrong with being someone who has a lot of money if they put a lot of effort into supporting the pinball community I think they I might have said something I think they're missing the point i never said that i just said the the big like let's see how big my dick is kind of contest with these pinfluencers that's what i'm saying that is somebody who doesn't try to give back to the pinball community so that's fair yeah dude we have a guy that has a whole warehouse okay full of pinball machines that like over 100 pinball machines and i've been best friends with him since I got into the hobby. He's this rich dude.
    70:27
    He's on a boat all the time. If anybody that knows me or knows him knows who I'm talking about. And the dude, like, opens up this warehouse. He pays people to tech the games. And he opens up this warehouse every Friday night just for people to play for free. If you want to donate, cool. like I'm not saying that you know rich people are bad in the hobby I never fucking said that I said the putting $10,000 cameras in your you know and $100,000 thing and fucking trying to influence pinball it's obviously for clicks and for likes and all that shit I didn't say that like just because you're rich you shouldn't be in the pinball obviously if you have any kind of money you have like you have to be in pinball and you almost yeah if you're buying a ton of machines or even just a handful of machines that's dude i have if you have expended income that you can spend on a ten thousand dollar pinball machine like you know exactly i bought i bought rush new in box i bought iron maiden almost brand new like i've spent some pretty good fucking coin on pinball too i'm not saying that like you need to be poor to be cool in pinball that's that's like obviously those people are just hearing buzz again buzzword that's the internet going buzzwords oh you have i have a hundred thousand dollar collection why am i being fucking yelled at that's not what i'm saying social media noise is like yeah it makes you feel like a target even though you're not awesome that yeah i think that you are a huge force of helping promote the channel and i appreciate what you do for pinball and traveling and helping to even with your giant collection which is amazing by the way he does have a really good collection yeah i mean like dude like i I think that people like the dude that I'm talking about, that grew pinball. That has a whole community now. It's the ball goblins. Go follow them on Instagram. The Glenside Machine Shop. Go follow them on Instagram. That's the little warehouse. It's kind of like if you know, you know kind of deal. And that guy, he's not even there like probably 90% of the time, and he shares the wealth by letting everybody play for free. Not even pinball people will come. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying the internet bullshit that we all know what is genuine and what is not. That's what I'm saying.
    72:59
    Like, that's like, it's not that hard to... Joe's also here from Indie Arcade Wave. I do want to give a shout out to Joe. I think that speaking of authentic content pinball creators, I mean, he travels the entire nation in a in a fucking mobile mobile home, finding small arcades to do interviews with them on location. The amount of effort, the amount of effort that he puts into that is just at a pure passion for the hobby. And I think that Joe represents pretty much everything that you're talking about in terms of authenticity for pinball content creation. So thank you. That's awesome. Thank you for hopping on. Can you send me that page? Because I would like to see that. I never heard of him. Sure. He just finished 183 interviews, right? You just did your 183rd, Joe? Isn't that right? That's fine. But yeah, I'll toss you his link for sure.
    73:49
    Yeah, please do. Please do. And I'll fucking spread the word. Like, I'm not trying to be like a demon or like, it's just, And what we're talking about here is only a few people. You know what I'm saying? I don't think you're a demon. I think you're frustrated because you love pinball and you see a lot of these people entering the pinball ecosystem. You remember what it's like when it was in a different state, right? You remember the kind of like purity form of it when it was the most fun for you and the most inclusive and got a lot of people involved in pinball. And you know what it can be. And you're seeing these people that are using a platform in a different way. And it feels disingenuous. and I understand your frustration but I do think some of your criticism comes off like it's targeting the people that are not doing that. Ossavet is a good example but you know, the message is clear. Your message is clear.
    74:42
    I mean, yeah, sometimes I get shit. I talk so much that like not everything I'm going to say is going to be right and this is why I'm not a content creator. You know what I mean? I have a pinball Instagram and you know but this is like I'm not trying to influence anybody on like like I said before in the beginning of this I'm like Larry David should I be annoyed by it probably not but I am you know and uh and but I also don't feel alone because so many people reach out and go yeah fuck that fuck that fuck that yeah a lot of people have reached out to you talking about how they're frustrated for a lot of what the i don't know what you would call the the latest or newest generation of content creators is in terms of it not feeling authentic so um i mean that's why i 100 wanted to have you on this was like to stir up the pot and to really generate a a conversation that i think is just worth like you know make your own decisions when you're watching pinball content and if you are a content creator try to continue to be authentic right like that's the that's the way yeah like you know honestly i'll support these people if they listen to this and go you know he's kind of right i honestly don't think they care what you think but i think it does change what the mentality is just a little bit to help promote some better authentic content for pinball then yeah like i mean you know i just like maybe maybe like they probably won't but like maybe hey there might be one of these people that go shit dude and people are looking at me like this maybe like i need to switch it up a bit you know like just because this is this is what we want if you want to ask what people actually want this is what we want we want you guys fuck like get out of your fucking basement and go to your local arcade dude in the arcade wave i think joe just fucking nailed it he said he agrees with a chunk of what you're saying and that it's becoming very business focused and less passion focused and i i think those are that's that sums up the entire podcast right there yeah yeah that's like so thank you joe yeah that's it i mean and uh you know i i i am a hater sometimes but like you know um i think it comes from a good place and i'm willing to like hey if one of these guys because you know everybody knows who we're talking about you know i think everybody in chat probably knows who we're talking about and yes but this entire chat is not a platform to show shade individual content creators like when we talked in the beginning i was like we're not i'm not a platform for that this is the talk about pinball authenticity and pinball culture and i think that what i'm saying is like these guys will say like hey if you want to come to me and ask me why or what or whatever or or just maybe somebody that's been in the hobby just as much maybe even harder than me you know what i mean like hey why don't you ask them what they want instead of just the general population let's ask some of the ogs you know like that that's that's all like it's not like complete hate it's just like come on like stop just and it's like you said it's so much hard work most of the AOGs are just like casual tournament players now. They don't focus on that. You know, I mean, Steve Bowden, who just won second in classics, somebody who is a pretty prominent figure in streaming for pinball, mostly at competitive pinball locations and streams. Yeah. It's just kind of, you know, doing his thing. It's not about. Yeah. I mean, most people can keep their mouth shut. I just can't. For better or for worse. All right. uh chat if you have any other questions or anything you want to throw at cliff uh again we're already at an hour and a half this has been a substantially longer episode than i thought it was going to be but yeah i got kind of drunk during this episode so sorry
    78:56
    i did on iced tea still early over here i'm three hours ahead of you yeah i did on these like gross i don't even know somebody left them out from actually from the bells and chimes that we had a lime beer that was the greenest beer i've ever seen it's fucking disgusting i just did it so i could talk a little more you got to get through maybe i should someone's got to drink them yeah yeah they've been here for like fucking four months that's when beer really like comes to you know fruition i think uh yeah i think yeah all right chat's got a few things chat says sean says thank you cliff look at that man someone thanks you uh i need that your passion is that that's what we need so that i think your authenticity is coming through for sure key lime cougar bait is good says johnny button so you gotta you gotta someone likes the lime beer nice yeah no i uh i thank you for having me on um because like you know i i felt like you know honestly i didn't know who you were and when you appeared yeah like when you appeared i was like here we go another one and honestly like i'm being honest and i was like okay yeah and and i didn't know where you're what your whole deal was it was just like here we go this dude jeff appeared and he's starting this cult and this whole thing and uh and then i watched some of your streams And I was like, this is something I can get down on, you know, like, honestly, but, you know, like, I just, you know, I, I, I know I have my hackles up probably too much, you know, I definitely, I'm self aware, you know, I talk shit and sometimes I'm wrong. And I'll admit when I'm wrong. But, you know, I, I am thankful for like everybody trying to spread the word. I just want more of the new content creators to just be real. Yeah, and I think that's all everybody wants. That's all that everybody wants. I would say not to be quick to judge either, because I do remember when I started this whole channel, there was some individuals in our league that were similar to you, like who's this new guy, blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing. And I don't know, one of them came up to me a couple of months ago and was just like, they were like, I'm really sorry that I treated you that way and didn't realize that you were actually a really authentic pinball person. And I was just like, I didn't even think twice about it. It was just like, that's all good. Don't even worry about it.
    81:33
    I'm very quick to judge. That's just my personality. Again, Larry David, I watched Curb Your Enthusiasm way too young at an age. Pretty good.
    81:46
    Yeah. But, no, even if you are quick to judge, this is the time. Like, if you're going to be quick to judge, you've got to be quick to know when you're wrong.
    82:00
    You know? and that's one thing that if I can say anything about myself is that like I've never created a really bad life and I've never like said that I was completely right in the situation when I knew that I was wrong you know like and because I'm such a judgmental person and I'm just gonna be real you know like um because i'm my own worst enemy too you know um so like when i see something that i don't like i'm going to talk shit until i'm proven wrong but in this sense i feel that i was like kind of proven right in the situation of having all of these people that i trust respect and claim is really good friends if not best friends say the same shit sure and again to be clear for people that are just tuning in. You're talking about people being authentic in the pinball landscape. Complaining about newer streams that may not have that as a mentality. Joe says, quick to judge, quick to admit fault. It's definitely a good trait to be able to admit when you're wrong. Asavet, thank you very much for the gift subs. I really appreciate it. If you just got some gift subs from the man, say thanks. It's the polite thing to do, right? That's what you should do.
    83:15
    Alright, Cliff, thank you so much again for taking your time to be on here and to talk some words. Everybody, for chiming in and not watching in-disc for our short little medium-long lunch break. I guess it wasn't really short at all.
    83:28
    As we normally do, we're going to go raid something. And as we always do, Cliff, the table is yours. Is there anything that you want to say or promote for yourself or cool pinball events that you may know of that are in the area that you want to shout out?
    83:45
    Pinball events? Fantastic in Massachusetts. um um delaware pinball collective uh at the mid-atlantic pinball open uh delaware pinball you know i actually haven't given them the shout out at all and they're the best place on the east coast um there you go we're pinball collective if you're on the east coast rock fantasy delaware pinball collective pinball gallery um if if you're on the east coast and you you happen to follow my Instagram. Just message me and I'll tell you where to go.
    84:22
    But that's it. I mean, I don't really... He won't plug it himself, but if you do want to check out more of Cliff's stuff, you can check him out at DJWarlock666 I believe is your... DJWarlock pinball 666. 777. 777, sorry. It's the beast adjacent. I will include it in the description anyways, regardless of him not because, I don't know, man. Social media needs to occur even for people that don't want it. Cliff.
    84:48
    So yeah. Thank you, everybody. Stick around. Let's go raid somebody. It'll probably be Indisc. Aimless is hosting Indisc currently, and I think they're probably back up and running. And Matt and Amy are really nice people, so let's fucking go. Go to Indisc. Will you praise the Great Pyramid with me? Hell yeah, dude. Look at that. Although I got a new one. I'm trying it like this now. Hold on. I don't know. Which one do you like better? A? I like this one better just because my ring finger and Pinky kind of work together, but not really. So I'm going to do that.
    85:22
    But hey, Jeff, thank you so much for letting me talk shit. And hopefully it was like good. Are you going to go to TPF? Are you heading to any of the Expo things in the future? Maybe Expo, probably not TPF. Remember, I own and operate a painting company, so I have to be there in real life. So but Pinfest, obviously, in Allentown, PA. And if anybody's going, let me know, because I send out the address to just a couple of people and then it just rapid fires. So but anybody's welcome. I advise anybody to find Cliff and play a game of pinball with you because I have heard you or nothing, but just seriously a ball of pinball passion. And if you're watching this and you're curious what real authentic pinball punk rock is all about, well, it's about Cliff. So, all right. Thank you, Cliff. Bye, everybody.
    86:21
    See you later. Thank you. Do I get off now? Does your life lack purpose? Have you wondered if there's anything more?
    86:40
    Join the cult of pinball. The Great Pyramid accepts all into the cult of the Great Order. I am Dr. Cornelius Bigostine, impreterper and acolyte of the Great Pyramid.
    86:58
    Join us.