The following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. So, trades, Zach. Teach me about trades. How do they work? I don't know how this is going to go, but we're going to try it here exclusively at patreon.com. Don't confuse the people. Thank you so much for the continued support. All right, so some groundwork here when it comes to trades. They're not a fast thing for us to do. A lot of people will just send over like requests. They're like, hey, how much you give me for this? And I'm like, well, out of context, I mean, I don't know. So the things I would like to say is that hopefully people appreciate that it does take The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. Keeps in mind when you ask for a trade evaluation you come back for something and then you're wanting another evaluation, what about this game? After 4 or 5 it's like guys, you're burning me here, you're killing me, this is a lot of what ifs, what ifs, and then they'll be like, alright let me try to sell my game, and I'm like f***. So it's a lot of work. Other thing to keep in mind, this isn't a negative thing, but you can't expect people to give free game evaluations for you. So sometimes we'll have people, hey, I'm thinking about trading in this game, how much is it worth? Well, it depends on where you're located for shipping purposes. It depends on what game you have. It depends on what game, has that game got 12,000 plays or does it have 5 plays? Is it scraped up on the side, is it not? That's it guys, thank you so much for tuning in, and always check some other guys out on the photographers panel, and maybe a little little sir on the caller panel. I appreciate that, too. So, thank you Chase for hitting me. Or me, I mean I support him, I'm proud to be on the crowd, but I'll never talk about John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I'm not going to pay for an evaluation either, so I think that's kind of... Yes. So I understand them expecting to find an evaluation that doesn't cost them any money, but no, it's not unreasonable to say, well, I'm not in the business of doing evaluations. I only do evaluations for trades. I'm going to arrange sort of thing. I don't know if there's a way to develop a tool or something where they could go online and it would, I don't know, if it'd pull from a certain price list and then it'd be like John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, The Biden Men's resellerboarding children will also have aoute. So for the most part, not everything's going to be working on it. They're selling it to me as, I'm doing comps as, but there's like a built-in buffer that I'm like, I know a board's going to be blown, I know there's going to be a wiring hack, I know that this flipper's not going to work. So I don't like trading in, I like trading in stuff just by the pace of our operation and the lack of staffing. I have to have stuff in that's nice enough that I can move out, that does not need full shop jobs, that does not need a lot of work. If it does, and generally the people will know on our sales, they'll be like, damn Zach, could you not have fixed that? Could you not have? And the answer from us is not at this time. It doesn't make sense for us to. We're trying to price it with those issues in mind. Like if we put six hours into doing a flipper rebuild and doing a shop job and stuff like that, then you're going to see retail, higher retail pricing from us. So it's like a, I try to balance that. So it's like, nah, I like stuff that comes in that's pretty clean that I can move out pretty quick. So there's not EMs. We will, but I price an EM as a non-working EM, even if it works. So I always tell people, yeah, for stuff like that, you're going to get way more just selling it outright because EMs, I couldn't see myself spending over $500 for any EM. It doesn't matter if it's a popular one and it's really nice. I don't bank on it working once it gets here. I don't have the time to get it working. Cpl. Dan Seyfried, CFO, L.A. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I'll overpay. I'll do whatever I need to do. But in most cases, I'm trading just because I'm going to be selling it. So I have to always let people know, hey, just want to give you a heads up. We are reselling this. So because they're like, how much would you reselling it? So we're going to try to make money off of it. My loose rule of thumb, very loose, but rule of thumb is like, I want in any scenario, the worst situation or circumstance, not as if something just totally demolished, but like, given what I'm going to give you a little bit of a breakdown of what you've got once I get it. I want the worst case scenario of me making, me breaking even, honestly. But ideally 500 bucks. That's my goal. My goal is at minimum make 500 bucks. On the upper end, if I can make 750 or a thousand dollars on the deal, fantastic. But it's not what I go in to it as. If I give myself like, if I can make 500 bucks and then if all shit goes to hell and I lose money, I got $500 window, a buffer window of not losing money. That's kind of roughly where I'm at on that. But if something has a lot of moving parts and is going to be a big pain in the ass, whether it's shipping, stairs, $500 just doesn't make as much sense anymore. Like we are retail. We as in the Royal Distribution Retail. Also there's risk. A lot of people don't factor in all of the risk. The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi, Tim Tim Kitzrow, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. So, $14,000 for a Harry Potter CE. So let's go through with what I receive on a daily. Just received one three minutes ago. It was about to trade. It said, will you consider $13,000 for that particular showroom Harry Potter CE that you have? If so, will you give, or if so, I will give you $3,000 down on it cash today to hold it? I really prefer new in box Wizard Edition. So he's trying to hard sell me already. I don't want this, but I'll take. I really prefer the new Embossed Wizard Edition but we take this particular CE if that works for you No worries either way It not a trade offer but again just something that comes in So I respond to him later But I get that a lot, and viewer, what I would say in situations like that, $1,000, I wouldn't consider that a lowball offer, but $1,000 difference, what people should realize is it really makes no sense for me just to drop $1,000 off a price that's been listed for a day. What I will do, and I'll tell this person, traditionally, I'm not saying I wouldn't sell for $13,000, but that would be if it wouldn't sell them for a month or so. So what I'll do is in a week from now, take $100 off. Two weeks from now, take a couple hundred dollars off. It doesn't make any sense for me to just drop $1,000 when every week I can just keep dropping it. That's how I list. A lot of people will bother me with like, would you take $1,200 under? And I'm like, no. Why would I? Next one. Would you consider a trade? I have a premium Godzilla. So, that alone, Dennis, what's your answer? Would you consider a trade? You have more questions, right? Right, right. Maybe. I don't know. It's like, I don't know the condition of the premium Godzilla. I don't know how many plays it's got on it. I don't know where he lives. Yep. That would be a lot. So, I copy and paste this because I have to have cues to get the conversation rolling, save me time. My response will be, we would be reselling it. So it would just depend on the game's condition, total place, and your location, slash whether or not you would like us to set up shipping. That's probably not all the questions I have, but it's a good prompt to get them to give me some more information so I can start crunching some numbers. Let's go to another one here. Hey, Zach, I'm kinda interested in the Harry Potter scene. My favorite type of interested is the kinda. Yeah, kinda. They're trying to do a hard bargain here. My Hobbit had the exact same issue with the glass and lockdown bar. Cabinet was too wide. Very weird. Anyways, maybe we can work a deal, maybe, on a Jurassic Park LE as a partial trade. Okay. All right. 950 plays. All right. Cab is perfect. Ooh, I like that. Other imperfections are a few tiny little nicks in the powder coat on the legs. I don't like that. All stock, no mods or topper. So let's dive in people. Typically what I will do, I go to Pinside for a lot of my comps. So I'm going to pinside.com. And if I was prepared I would share screen stuff but I'm not going to do that. So I go to machines. I type in Jurassic. Then I scroll. I find the LE. Click on the LE. All right. Alright, and then I scroll all the way to the bottom to see what is currently for sale. That's my first step in finding a comp. And you guys can do this too to see what your game's worth. So I see loosely, and I can't really scour over every detail of all these listings, but this is just roughly what I do. So I see two for sale. One's $10,500, one's $13,000. They're both from America. Sometimes Canada's going to be more expensive. So $10,500, I'm going to click on that one. That one's in California. Ace of spades in LOWPetTie la 174. I'm also looking at the background of things too. Looking at what other games he's got in the collection. Looking at how things are kept everywhere else too. All of these things are nice, subtle clues and they're not, they're heuristics. They're just general rules of thumb here. Alright, so he shows the little dings to the legs. Not the end of the world, but they are certainly there. So he's saying 10,500 or best offer. So I go back out of that. I go look at the other one, $13,000 one. That seems a little high. 56 plays, Day Zero Playfield Protector. So this is, if he don't have any scuffs on this, this is probably a collector piece. Got a lot of mods, cash on the glass. So that would be a nice one. So that's gonna be on the higher end. But it has been sitting. You can kind of see how long they've been sitting too. So we got a 10, five and a 13. Then I scroll all the way up and go to price estimate, price history category. You see view archived ads. I click there and then I start looking at the last six months, 12 months of what people have listed and sold them for. So I see a 10.5 Jurassic Park LE, I see an 11.5, I see a 9.999, I see a 9.700, uh-oh, we're getting a little low here. I see a 12.000, 12.000, 11.75, 9.8. Okay, so I find a low one because I'm like 9.7. Let's click on 9.7 and see what was going on with that one. Beautiful LE, some mods, it's got a topper, 900 plays. Okay, like what was wrong with that one? And I see that it sat for two or three weeks. That's 9,700. So my retail mind already says that worst case scenario kind of thing, $10,000. That's what you're looking to break even. If you're wanting to make money, Zach, if you're seeing some sell for $9,900, $9,700, $9,800, my brain is like, I would like to get that game into me at about $9,000. That way, if I can have it for $9,000, if I get it and in person it's really nice, maybe I list it for $10,000. And maybe I have $1,000 to play with.hui You got some stranger coming into your damn house, your house. No, this is retail. It's easy. Boom, boom, boom, you're done. So there is some, there's some price of the ease of purchase too. All right, so now we start crunching our numbers. We also know that this individual is in California, one of the most priciest places to ship it to. So I start with, we've got the Harry Potter at what? 14,000, right? So we got 14,000 for Harry Potter. That's what I'm asking for it anyway. 14,000 for Harry Potter. Let's talk about the shipping. How much is it going to cost to ship that Harry Potter to him? How much is it going to cost to ship his Jurassic Park to me? If we're guessing, if you use STI, it's going to be a lot of money. People don't realize that because they traded pins 10 years ago when STI might have been 250, 300 bucks to ship. Now if you're If I'm shipping any game on a pallet to California, we're looking at $700. If I'm shipping it, if STI picks that up, no bullshit, that thing will be $900 if not more. So that's $900 just to get that Jurassic Park here. And STI is going to, 50% to 80% likelihood they're going to scratch it all up. So you're going to lose value really quick. I don't use STI, but for the purposes if you guys are trading with other hobbies, you're probably going to use STI. baseh slippers www.jurassicpark.com intelman diretory telecom centric of them www.willywonka.com He'll have his game by the end of this week. $59.99. So that's an example of what I would come back to him. Now, the tricky part is, we did, that's quite a bit of work, right Dennis? For, you do 20 of those a day, you're spending a considerable amount of time, especially if people are like, well what about this, what about this, what about this? The problem is, when I do an evaluation like that, I not really putting in a window of like negotiations I more of like the real the no haggle I don want to have to build in another window of like well I going to put an extra 500 because he going to try to talk me down I just don have time for that So we get I pitch this to this guy and he come back and be like all right if you can do 5 instead of 5 then we got a deal And then a lot of people like Zach you not you don work with me very much or you lowball me because you not even meeting me in the middle I like well because I took the time to do all that that just where it at I'm going to go higher end for him and lower end for me. I'm going to try to do everything. But with the game listed for one day, that's kind of the evaluation today as to what that would be. All right. We did get the guy from the Godzilla Premium comeback. Remember? So he said, well, it's less than a year old and has very minimal plays. And I'd have to check for the exact number. Well, go do that. I'm the first owner. I live in Phoenix, Arizona, another one of the pricey places to ship to. And I would need shipping set up for me. Let's roll with that. So does that first one as I'm looking at these, does that first one make sense to us? Yeah, I thought so. I thought it was pretty easy to follow the process. Did you think that that seems high then? Do you think that seems acceptable? Do you think because most people don't think of the shipping cost. No, no, I think that's probably the biggest thing that they do forget about. I guess the biggest surprise is I'm surprised you would go through a trade process and make less than a thousand on it. Oh, yeah, a lot of people think I'm like making two. No, I mean, and that's why full transparency. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. www.willywonka.com So that's a misprint. 85, 9,000, 87, 83, 85, 87, 85. Okay, so we're already feeling, well Zach's probably gonna go in around 8,000 value for that, probably. Probably around 8,000 if it's super nice. So he said first owner. I'd have to continue to ask him, is there going to be any cabinet dings? Because guys, cabinet dings alone go from me being able to sell something that is considered mint condition. If it has a cab ding, it's just no longer mint. Because people don't like things on their cabinet because it doesn't feel new to them. And if they're spending this much money on a pinball machine, they want it to at least feel new. Some guys don't care. They're like, oh my God, I'll buy something $700 cheaper with a little cab ding on it. But a lot of guys don't. And it's a thing of, it's a market thing. If I'm selling a game, I want it to be, I want it to either be the nicest one or I want it to be the most value or like the best value one. So, I want it to stand out in some way. And if it has a cab ding in it, I no longer can shoot for the nicest. Right. I'm already looking at that's going to be, now we're going value here. So, how low can I get it so it moves quick? So, cab dings do matter. A lot of you guys when you're asking about trades and I say, does the cab have any dings on it? Now the one of my pet peeves is whenever that comes and it's got dings and they didn't list it, it's like that kills me because now I'm, my window of margin just shot down significantly. So yeah, so I would probably give this guy an evaluation of probably $8,000 value for this plus the shipping, like I said, that we built that in, $1,200. The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. There's little shitheads online that say that I lowball and all this stuff, but the proof's in the pudding. Like, we're probably doing more trades than everybody for a reason. You know, people are taking us up on it because they're fair, fair enough, you know. And I've lost money on deals sometimes, so I'll get back to that guy with that. Let's go with another one. Hi, Zach. What would a Stranger Things Premium, 2,000 plays, some tasteful mods pull in on trade? All of these are going to be paid. It's got the topper, UV, side art, etc. So, again, you guys probably already know that you're going to want follow-up questions, like what am I really getting here? 2000 plays is not considered high play, but this is a game that's been played. Some tasteful mods, topper, UV, some of those accessories I don't factor in unless it's something that goes for a lot of money or rare to get. I don't, I factor it into my general evaluation of that. So when I'm doing comps, it gets more the higher end of the comps when it has topper and UV stuff than lower end. But that's about all it does for me. So Stranger Things Premium, it's going to be lower than a lot of people think. Those things aren't going for the highest. There are 10 different ads on Pinside right now. 86, 89, 79, 94, 82, 87, 92, 9,000, 8,000, 8,500. Let's look at the $7,900 one. That one's sitting. It's only at 650 plays, so less than half of what this guy has. It doesn't say there's anything wrong with it or anything. It looks like a 7900 oboe, and it's been sitting for about a week. So $7,900. It's sitting. Let's go in the archived. The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I'm not going to get upset. But what I would tell him, I'd do all the math. I'd see where he's at because he didn't tell me where he's at or anything. Sometimes area codes, I try to guesstimate where they're at, but this is Facebook market, so I don't know where he's coming from. So that's the evaluation I would give him. I'd build in all those numbers, add the shipping and stuff like that, and tell him that's where we're at. I'm trying to think. Do you think that was helpful, Dennis? I think it was pretty clear. I think I have a good understanding of what all goes into it. I had kind of wondered what you use to gauge market. So you look at a lot of the ad pricing to see just list prices in general. I see that what can I sell it within the next two weeks because I don't want a game. I'm like a car dealership. I don't necessarily want a game sitting because if money is sitting, it's not making money. So it's just sitting there. There are some games that I selfishly like in the showroom. And full honesty, I will price those maybe higher than the market calls for them because I either want to play them, I like them in the showroom because they look good, they only come around once every three years like a KISS LE. I price that a little bit higher initially because they never come around. They never come around in super nice condition. So I'll add a premium to that because oftentimes we serve a collector market to a really high end collector market. We serve all the hobbyists and then we serve new in pinball, new people in pinball. And there are some people that $15,000 is the same thing to them as $10,000 and they don't see KISS LEs come up. So I'm going to place probably a $500,000 premium on that because I don't ever get them. And if somebody pulls the trigger on it, great. If not, in a week, then I start reducing it and I don't mind it being there. I don't know if that's a, like a, I think it's a fine thing for me to do. I try to be fair with everything. I'm not trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, but I'm also trying to run a business. Nothing you've said sounds strange to me. Again, I've never traded pinball. I've traded lots of watches to dealers. I like it because of what you've pointed out. It saves me, I've sold them online too. It saves me a lot of headache and I don't even have to have strangers come into my home John Popadiuk Bob Betor Knapp Arcade Straight Down the Middle Bally Williams Straight Down the Middle Knapp Arcade Watch This is just come up with watches So when reaching out to a dealer if it I would like to trade my watch towards something else like another used watch or I want to sell it to you you get a better deal on trades Is it this, do you give a better deal on trades? The way you outlined your process sounds like if someone were to want to say, hey, Zach, I want to just sell you my game. It sounds like you would do the exact same process. Do you even allow people just to sell you the game or do you only do it through a trade context? Yeah, we buy them all the time. And I don't – yeah, it would probably be about the same because I don't – I view that game as what can I sell it as rather than getting better options because that's the – people sometimes get confused and Greg and I are trying to redo our system so we're not presenting it as this way because it does get confused where they're like, how much do you value this? John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Larry Kizrow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, They would just market up the highest possible and give you a value that you can use on anything. I just don't like that because I think you can get better value depending on what you're trading it for. So we try to explain to them like, let me know what you're wanting so that you can get our best evaluation. But they see it as, they just see it as a negative thing like, well it shouldn't matter, I should be able, if you're giving me this for this trade, I should be able to get that same for this one. It's like, well no, then I'll give you it for this one for all of them. I'm just trying to do you a solid and save you an extra 300 bucks if you're taking this one. So we're trying to figure out a better way of communicating that to people. Yeah, that part is pretty confusing I think to folks. Well, because Greg came in initially when he started doing the trade. I was training him on doing these trade things. That was the one thing he came back. He was like, it would be so much nicer and easier for people if we could, at the end of our evaluation, just give them a trade value. And they can use that on whatever they want. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr.., orbit ramps, Automated Amusements, Python Anghelo, Joe Kaminkow, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. I think we probably do it about the best that you can to get to establish the most successful completed trades. But to answer your original question, no, if somebody came to me and said I want to buy Stranger Things, that's what I would do and then the shipping would be one way. So it probably would be unless it was a game that I wanted to ship an empty crate for them to put it into and ship it back. That is one of the benefits that we're doing now and we're We're trying to perfect is that crate system because for us it doesn't really matter much to the customer. It's pretty easy because if they're willing to get the game on the legs whenever they purchase the game, then they know how to take it off the legs. We send them pinball armor that barrel sells. It's really nice. It's like a sleeve system so you don't have to worry about saran wrap and all this stuff. They just get it off the legs and put it back in this crate. Super simple because people don't like ratchet ratcheting or they don't have a bander to put E Zeit Easy bitterness с Co. And they'll keep it on the legs or they'll take it off the legs. Both of them are faulty. They're going to fuck up your game either way. But we were finding, and it's more expensive than the negotiated rates I have because I have a contract with FedEx or whoever it is. But so a lot of people are like, oh, this, it's expensive to do all of it. But no, if you consider STI, when I did STI, a lot of people would be like, damn, your shipping is high. And I always encourage them, like, you, no, contact STI. Get your own quote. I think you'll be shocked of how much they're charging for this. And I just couldn't, they were all getting damaged. So every evaluation I gave, it would take four times long to get it. FedEx, I can get something within a week from California. STI, it would be three, four weeks. And then once I do get it, the cabinet's damaged and stuff. So not only have I lost weeks of time in moving that money to the next thing, I also, my evaluation I'm a shot because of cabinet decal damage. I've seen them damage put forks through cabinets. I've seen them bend legs. I've seen them, you got an exposed leg, they're gonna ding the hell out of a powder coat leg. And we just deal with too much nice stuff, LE stuff, collector stuff. We can't, we couldn't, we couldn't keep doing that. So we had to figure out a different way. But I do love this part of the business. I love the pre-owned stuff. And I think we're going to be, Because we have control over everything. We're not dealing with manufacturers and begging them to refund a factory defected game. We're not begging manufacturers, hey, I can sell 200 units of this, but you're only giving me 20? We have more control over it. Right. So I do like the pre-owned game stuff. And I would love for there to be some type of service in the future that Flip N Out or myself, we assist with trades between people. We're trying to find a way to do hobbyist trades that we're not brokering but we're assisting with the ease of that stuff. Because I think a lot more people, a lot more viewers would be willing to trade if there were some easier ways to do it. The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. So, but yeah, there's got to be some kind of way that we can make it easier for everybody and also get, you know, be advantageous for us as a business too. So I think there's something there. So we're looking into all that stuff. I'm trying to think what else would be interesting or if there's anything else. If you guys have questions regarding the trade-in process or any of this, let us know. Like the collection buying, like I'm looking to buy that person's collection. The logistics of that, it's like, how do you get, I'm not a semi-truck driver, so I can't rent a semi-truck to fill up 40, it's like 40 plus games. How do I do that? Do I, it's a mess, but we're figuring it out, figuring it out too. But yeah, email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com or Patreon or we can discuss it in our Discord chat. www.willywonka.com The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. Kenën Anderson People are willing to pay something fair so that they don't have to deal with the trade, because people don't like generally trading. Some people that like trading, you're not going to talk them into your system unless they really have something you want, nor they're not the internet market either. But I would say, I would argue the majority of people in this pinball hobby do not like to deal with people coming to their house, meeting with people, loading shit. They don't like doing it. So I think those people might, what I'm banking on is those people are willing to pay a 500 to $750 premium so that we deal with all of it. That is what I'm betting on the success of used game sales to be. So we'll see how far it's working. So we'll see. See, now I got fired. Now I'm wanting to talk business. This is fun. Shit. Can you turn it off? Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's time to go away. Bye bye. Bye bye bye. www.subsedit.com