The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round. Are we doing this? Are we back? What's going on? Hi, I'm Geoff Hewitt. Hi, I think we're back. Maybe. It's been nearly a month. So, I'm Martin and this is Final Round Pinball Podcast episode 58. Thanks everybody for joining us once again. What's been going on, Geoff? Well, you know, I'd like to say it's about the quality, not the quantity, but I don't know if we've got that going on for us. I don't think in good conscience we could say that, but we're here. Let's just go for quantity. Well, we're not even doing quantity. We're working on that because to answer your question, I've been away quite a bit. In fact, I think I figured out it was 25 days out of the last 38 days I was not at home. And therefore, when you're not at home, you can't record podcasts. There have been fewer opportunities to do this. Same with Pinball Profile. I mean, I've really just been on the road and living in hotels and suitcases and all that kind of stuff, all for fun. You know, no woe is me crap, but it's nice to be home. And it's nice to be doing this again with you, Marty. yeah i love that you say you know no woe is you like as though people were going to sympathize with you i don't but wow okay i was at a tournament uh on friday night and the guy goes how do you get to go away so much and uh i was like um i don't know i just it was really just timing i think you and i have talked about this whenever the world championships was it was i was going to go so that just happened to fall in may and i had already planned a big trip with carson we talked about the of the last episode and then i just did a little side trip with my wife for five days that was fun i'm sure we'll talk about that because there's pinball involved and some pinball personalities yes there are yeah yeah so uh now i'm back and i say that and then i look at the calendar i'm like oh i'm going away for a tournament here in canada just like you are going away for a big big tournament there in australia that is absolutely true so the brisbane masters is coming up and And this will be my very first appearance as an employee of a pinball company. It's going to be kind of – yeah, I know. I'm actually officially going as a representative of Haggis Pinball. So that's going to be very interesting. We will have a Celt and we will have a Fathom revisited with us. So that will be lots of fun. I also am going to be seeing both those games because they're going to be at Yagpin. So I'm looking forward to that. I've seen some feedback already. It's nice. It's gorgeous. Seems to play well. all that hard work on the flippers that you put in and the rest of the team there at Haggis paying off and I can hardly wait to get my hands on it. Yeah, it's true. There's more and more code that's being added to it. So, you know, I think I mentioned it last time, but it's one of those things now that I just play it and play it and play it, I still play it so much that I can't help but think of new things to add to it. So I don't know whether there's ever going to be a cutoff where I go, okay, that's enough. I think I'm just going to be constantly thinking of ways to either tweak or improve it or to add things. So we'll see what comes with it. Most good programmers say coding is never done. Yeah, I totally get that now. Absolutely. But that being said, I wonder because since we last talked, Toy Story came out. I mean, we were all over it before it came out. We gave you all the details. We had such focused and specific feedback on it. Well, I actually did. Okay. Fuck, we're idiots. Like, honestly. I didn't say anything to you. I respect NDAs, and it goes the other way, too. Marty knows what's going on at Haggis. I don't ask. I don't care. But when people tell me things, I actually knew it was Toy Story 4 quite a while ago, and I didn't say anything. I may have suggested, what if it's only one of the movies? I threw a bunch of what ifs out there, but that was the one I was kind of curious to see if anyone would gravitate to. But hey, it looks gorgeous. I have not flipped it. I hate giving opinions without flipping it. What others have said is it shoots very well. It's got a lot of great assets. Having Tim Allen and the voices and the images looks good. the things people are saying is it's maybe a little easy that doesn't make it bad it just means it's maybe not for the top players and all that kind of stuff maybe it'll get there who knows maybe with competition modes will do that but uh i know people are enjoying flipping it and i can hardly wait to do i think i'll be doing it at yagpin i hope i will okay let me just talk about Toy Story 4. Okay. It's been a very interesting release. I think from what I saw, it was overly negative was the response that came from it. And I wasn't necessarily negative when I saw it. My first impressions were, okay, this looks a lot like Wonka. Okay. And being that it's a Toy Story game, I don't care about Toy Story 4. Side note, I think Toy Story 4 is a fantastic film and i know that a lot of people don't like it i thought it was equally as good as the other toy stories there you go side note over but being that it's a game about toys where are the where are the toys right sure that was that was the first thing was hang on you could have just stuck a you know five dollar kmart toy in there they have the cake toppers sure sure sure sure sure which are very cool but i think a lot of people were saying hang on this is about toys why are there no toys on the play field? And I'm going somewhere with this, by the way. This rant will be over soon. Because a lot of people were then questioning the price, because the price is quite high. Okay? Quite high. In Australia, I think it was like $18,000 for the LE and $25,000 for the CE, which is a lot of doubloons. But people were questioning the bill of materials. They were saying, this is ridiculous. This price, there was so much more in blah, blah, blah, blah, and here's where my rant comes to a crescendo. Everybody, a crescendo, just in case you didn't get my pronunciation of that. I had a look at the game and I started, I guess now that I'm in the pinball biz, right, there was inverted commas, I don't know whether you could see them. Yeah, it's the first time you've mentioned that in this podcast. Go on, yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, got it. Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. So I started looking at what was actually in the game and what is value for money. And you know what? It's actually there. This game has got a lot of stuff packed into it. It is a very, very feature-rich game. It is a beautiful game. Whether you like the carnival theme or not, there is still a lot in there. I think the price is maybe just maybe a little scooch too steep, but it's not ridiculous. I think that looking at the game, I think there's enough value in that game to warrant the price was really my rant. Counterpoint. What did you think? Go. The price is too low. Why? Why is the price too low on the collector's edition? I don't know. Why? Because they sold out instantly. So if people are stupid enough to spend that kind of money on any machine and buy it instantly with the hopes of flipping it and making a buck or two because we've seen them online. No. I've got my spot. I'm numbered blah, blah, blah. I'm selling it for $17, even though I paid $15 for it. The price was too low. 90% of the collector's editions were bought by distributors, not by customers, which I found very interesting. Okay. That number came out? You sure about that? Yeah. I didn't see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jack. I think it was either 80 or 90%. It was like he actually said when I think it was like a report the day after he was actually on record said that I thought it was 90% something like that had been sold to distributors. Now, that means that there's not as much certainty because if they'd said 100% was sold direct to customers, well, then you know that 100% of them are sold. What we don't know now is whether all those distributors have got customers for all those machines that they've now committed to. So I would be wrong in saying the price is too low if they are sitting at distributors and not moving and a sign of the pinball apocalypse or as some people would say the bubble bursting. I don't know who would say that. Anyway, so you think, hmm, you know, I'm seeing distributors. I talked about this and I think it's about the supply now coming back a little bit. I'm seeing it in the car industry. I'm seeing it in other industries. the supply chain is starting to pick up a little bit. But if they're sitting at distributors like other games are, uh-oh, everything's not moving. And that being said, if things are sitting at the distributors, games are not moving. There haven't been a lot of games that have come out in the last little while compared to years past. Yeah, true. Got me thinking a little bit. Maybe. We're not there yet. I know that we have just as a side note everybody Jeff and I after an episode where we've absolutely ripped each other to shreds we literally talk and go fuck that was fun so I just wanted to get you know we love fucking just taking the piss out of each other no I think you're an asshole but go on I didn't know you thought that way I guess we're thinking differently I'm going to get you Obviously. That bastard. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, all those conversations that I had with you, obviously. All right, I'm kidding. It's a bad joke. You know me and my bad jokes. I failed. Yes. You know. Come on. I wasn't going to say anything about that in the first 12 minutes of the podcast. But what I'm saying is, even though I like to have a go at Jeff about his bubble bursting and all that kind of stuff, there is going to be a correction at some stage. stage and and i guess my point i was making to you was that even though these two things are linked the the market for new inbox pinball machines and the market for second hand or used pinball machines are very different but there's a bit of cause and effect right yes yes if there are more new games coming out there'll be less demand for used games right correct another point is if companies, Jersey Jack, Stern, whoever, come out and they raise the price $500,000 a game, that also affects the used market pretty much similarly. Oh, correct. Again, I've mentioned it's classic supply and demand. If the price is too high, there's not going to be as much demand. But what really needs to happen is, I think, for the market to really correct itself is Stern needs to do two things. One is they need to keep bringing out games that have got great things that are going to sell and they need to start shipping a lot more games and that's obviously you know we're talking about supply chain that that needs to correct itself as well which we're sort of seeing that as well to an extent it's still a bit of a challenge so the new in box market needs to get back to normality before the second-hand market can and right now the second-hand market in australia and i've seen some in the US as well. It's still getting higher and higher. It's crazy. It's ridiculous everywhere. I agree. So Australia, Canada, United States, I'm sure in Europe as well. It's interesting you said correcting the market and what Stern will do next. So when Gary said quite a while ago, look, we're not going to be able to do the three cornerstones, I read between the lines. That's trickery, right? You're going to come up with two, but probably a boutique game. I don't know if it's going to be Kapow or whatever the hell it is, but something like Elvira, House of Horrors, something like Batman. They're not going to come out with just two. I can't see that happening, and I don't know this. I'm sure another game will come out, and I think the interesting thing will be, will it be a Cornerstone next, or will it be that boutique game? Because if it's the boutique game, and you're following the lead of Jersey Jack, set your own price. I mean, whatever you thought you paid for, Well, I guess Elvira was the weird one, right? They didn't really have a set price. It was, you know, figure out your own price. And if they do that again, oh, God. I think Beatles was like that too, wasn't it? No, Beatles was a more expensive game for sure. I guess that would have been, I think it's a Capow title. I know he certainly had a lot to do with it. He got the license. But you couldn't really buy a pro version of that. So they're the free. But I thought it was the same in that distributors could set their price. Oh, they had different models. Remember, that was the super premium gold whatever. I think you get some of Paul McCartney's pubes. Something like that. There's some sort of DNA. Ringo's beard dye. Something like that. I can't remember. Happy birthday, Ringo. Peace and love. Yeah, so if they come out with that type of boutique game that's not a cornerstone, I mean, if Jersey Jack is doing $12,000, $5,000 US, is Stern doing the same thing? Why wouldn't they? Yeah, so obviously, you know, Sterner and the business are making money. So they are going to price it at the maximum that they feel the market will tolerate. Well, what's their trick? Is it sell higher and make fewer, sell lower and make more, and tie up the lines? I don't know which way I would lean. Oh, look, again, it comes down to how much profit do they need to make for the entire business, really? They would be looking at their year-end numbers saying it needs to be whatever percentage, and there are so many variables that go into making that happen. What's the standard in Australia? For us, 22 is the low end, 29 is the high end as far as profit percentage? Well, yeah. Do you know what? It depends on what market you're in. Some low-profit companies can survive on 10% if you've got a lot of throughput. But if you're a boutique, you want to have more profit in there. But 30% is usually what a lot of companies that I've worked for have aimed for. It also depends if you're being traded too. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. It also depends on whether you've got shareholders that need to be paid dividends. That all gets factored into that as well. So as I said, a lot of variables. But Stern are going to be looking at what it is that's going to get them back to a certain level of profitability being a percentage, but also what that raw number of profit dollars is going to be as well. It will be interesting. I'm sure we're going to see two more Stern machines come out in the next, I would guess, three to four months. Yeah, I would also say just on that final point about profit and money, my indication is a lot of companies have obviously fallen by the wayside through the whole pandemic. Thanks, Ian. Yeah. But I think that Stern are going to be staring down at probably one of their least favorable financial years, but I still think they're going to do okay. Yeah, I don't know what's on the line. I know a lot of times on the pinball show with Zach and Dennis, they talk about what's coming up on the schedule, but you certainly don't know when the new games are, but I would have to think they're pretty soon. Yeah, everyone keeps saying Queen is going to be coming out. I don't know. Is it? What? Who's everyone saying Queen? Everyone. What, you mean like from Dutch? Wasn't it Pinball Brothers? Wasn't it Highway that had it, now Pinball Brothers? Sorry, when I say Dutch, they made Lebowski. It's, yes, Pinball Brothers, the ones that took over the Highway assets. Yeah, they had that box of lights at the Queen's shop in the UK. Yep, they did. You think they don't have it anymore? I don't know. I don't know. That's just one of the things that I keep hearing bandied around that's going to be coming out. So I don't know. You and I have talked about this before, and for the listener that is listening, we actively don't pursue next titles. We don't really want to know. We don't necessarily speculate. But if it comes to us, it comes to us. Yeah, that being said, I can name 12. Well, yeah. Name five. Name five right now. Go. No, why would I? Why would I? Seriously. Because I asked. All right, I'll give you the haggis ones. Here we go. It's ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, you fucker. I don't know anything, Damien. Don't worry. That I can absolutely assure everybody, he does not know. Who knows, right? Who knows anything? Well, exactly who knows, but it just comes back to that point of in order for the market to, as far as price goes, become normal. The market itself has got to become normal. And I just still think we are far away from production being normal. Yeah. What's it like there in Australia? Because in North America, unemployment is really low right now. Yeah, same. So if the supply is not there, companies are begging for employees. I don't know what it's like, again, in Australia, but I do a lot of companies. There are a lot of job opportunities. If you want to work, the opportunities are there, and they haven't always been there. Yep. Well, my job for many years has been, even though my job hasn't been recruitment, I've been involved in recruiting because I've had a need to recruit a lot of people. So I know what sort of yield rate you get when you advertise for positions. And right now, it is ridiculously low. So it's just because people are employed. Mm-hmm. All right. Enough economy talk. We're here to talk pinball. Oh, my God. Yeah. Are we, though? No, fuck it. You're right. I got a new hobby. What's your new hobby? And I'm going to be showcasing it at Yagpin. I'm sure I will. Yagpin goes for four different days. I have found this new hobby and it just kind of fell upon me I don't know how it happened I don't know when it first happened but I've done this thing about 4 or 5 times now and I don't even realize I'm doing it anymore any guesses? well if it's a hobby I don't know it's such a comedy career that sort of died you wouldn't bother trying that again it was pretty bad the first time maybe hobby is the wrong word maybe trend I've started a new trend okay, couldn't be anything physical about you okay, tell me we're all dying to know well, I can count five times in the last two months where I've gone about my business and at the end of the day I went oh, my fly's been undone for the whole day I'm forgetting to do it by fly And I know that doesn't seem like a big deal to you It's a big deal to this guy I'm walking around, I'm probably at tournaments I'm hanging low It's embarrassing, but also very kind When someone says, examine your zipper there And I'm like, oh shit When was the last time you went to the washroom? In the morning, so this has been like this for hours and hours and hours What the fuck, how am I forgetting to do this? Do I need to go to sweatpants? That's not a good look Where is this going? It's not going anywhere. I'm not even trying to be funny. It's the truth. Why am I not doing it on my fly? Marty, I need you here. But what's your new hobby? What's your hobby? Is your hobby to go walk? Your hobby is to walk around with your dick out. Is that what it is? Dick's not out. Secured behind my Joe Boxers. Don't you worry about that. There's no freckle torpedo popping out. We're good. Anyway. Okay. So. Okay. So okay My question to you is is it a trend that you are actively going to pursue No I trying not to And me speaking about it is I think the first stage in getting help That's right, obviously, yeah. For the five people listening, they'll be like, hey, Jeff, how are you doing? They're going to look down. They're going to be like, no, he's good. Go back to our conversation. All right. I noticed it one time. I caught myself one time. This is the really embarrassing thing. I caught it walking by a pinball machine, and my fly got caught on the plunger. Not that I'm rubbing my knob up against a plunger, but it just kind of because it's it's not zipped up. It's not exactly tight to the tight to the pants. And I got caught on the plunger. I looked down like, oh, my God, it's not a good look. What the fuck is going on? I'm not seen. Am I? What? Who am I? Who are you? Yeah, well, I mean, we obviously know you are. But I would I would listen. Please write into us and give us some suggestions on how Jeff can stop flashing his penis. at pinball shows. No, no, no. Please. But, you know, I do remember a while ago, I went to a job interview. Spoiler alert, it wasn't my fly. I went to a job interview and I went... Full boner. I went, fuck, I nailed this. And then after I got into the elevator, the lift, whatever you call it, and there was a mirror in it, I looked at it, my two front shirt buttons were open with my gut hanging out. Oh. listen you can't i every pair of underwear i have is black so you're not seeing anything anyway it's it's it's joe boxer it's a it's a shield that's it not a gut that's embarrassing and you know what it is world we go through routines right like i remember when i was younger and i used a lot of hairspray the hair was longer and stuff and i'm like oh that really dries out your hair and then you look at your shoulders you're like what the fuck did a salt shaker explode and so you're like oh god it's okay get away from the hairspray and stuff like that but you're right you check the buttons to make sure they're done up in order make sure you know there's no food in your teeth things like that you know any any boogers you got to be checking the booger locker that's a big thing as you get older right oh no snot rockets hanging there anyway yeah we both have facial hair there's shit that can be in there i've got a routine but i fly is not part of it no i i remember i was in china once and i was at a a um well it was a it was a management training course that i was on and it was people from all around the world and We were at dinner this one night after the course during the day, and I was just killing it on the table. I had people laughing. I then went to the bathroom. Because it was China and it was very humid, in the space of me sitting down at the table to an hour later when I went to the bathroom, Dick White head on my nose. Awesome. So I literally got back to the table and was quiet for the rest of the night. That confident Mardo was just gone. Rudolph the White-Nosed Reindeer. Yep, that's what happened. Oh, did you milk it? Oh, for sure. Of course. It was gone, but everyone knew. Everyone knew. Popped. So you can't hide that. It was a big one, so there you go. Anyway, we are just humans is what we're saying, and ultimately we don't give a fuck, do we? I would rather not offend somebody with my fly down. You might have made some people's nights. I was wondering about some other things, too. Go. Hmm. Somebody brought up a good point, and we're going back to Toy Story. We'll go back to some pinball. What the hell? And they were talking about companies and, you know, coming right out of the gate. What is, if you think of the companies that are around, their first game when you went, oh, wow, this is pretty impressive. I want to see more from this company. And I will throw Kelts in there. You saw the potential of, okay, great build. It's got everything a pinball machine wants. It's got great video display. It's got modes. It's got multiball. All right, this is good. I think of even Full Throttle. You mentioned Highway earlier. I remember the first time I played them, like, this is a fun game, you know? I know there's some bugs and stuff. Love the flow of it. A lot of multiballs. I get that kind of stuff. But is there a better first game by any company? And correct me if I'm wrong. Spooky came out with America's Most Honored. That was pretty good. It was fun. Some bug issues and all that kind of stuff. But Woz. Wizard of Woz. I mean, because of what they did, because of the big screen, because of everything on there. The toys, the code, the beauty of it. Is that the standard? Because there are companies that are going to be trying to make new pinball machines, Plenty Factory and all that kind of stuff. Is Woz the standard for, okay, I relate it to music a lot. What's the best debut album for somebody? Guns N' Roses, Appetite Restruction is pretty good. Boston, Boston is pretty good. There's a lot of great first albums. But what is the best first album for a pinball company? It's got to be Woz. Look, absolutely it is. But, I will say but, it nearly sunk the company, right? So it was very ambitious for a first game. And I think the reason why you probably haven't seen anything as revolutionary as was from any new pinball companies because they probably looked at that case study and said, don't do that. do something that's a little bit more achievable and work your way up to something that is as revolutionary as that but even then what could you do beyond that i always loved houdini when american came out with that i thought that's a freaking great build i know people say oh that one shot's too tight and stuff but it had toys great call outs not the greatest call outs a little weak they they went with the wrong aussie cop you know some people didn't like the animation Never bothered me. The only thing about the game, it's not the shots. The only thing I kind of wish they could do in that game is just speed it up a little bit. Once I know the rules, I don't want to go through that list. Let's go, go, go. That's about it. But I do love playing the game. It's gorgeous. If you want to win a play field, come to a pinball profile. I played an America tour. We've got a lot of those to give away from American. But that's a good first game too. But you said Waz almost sunk Jersey Jack. Yeah. Just because of, I've heard that too. I don't know the full details. What do you know that I don't know? Um, look, I don't really know all that much, but I do know that they needed to have somebody to come in to help the company get Hobbit out because it really had depleted a lot of reserves. What I know is that the first batch of games that came out had light board issues and all that kind of stuff, as you would as you're just getting into it for the first time. So I just think that it was a big undertaking. there was a lot more that could go wrong with the game because it had so much more in it. And I think that when you look at, you know, probably, I think probably Jersey Jack's next attempt at a was-like game was Pirates of the Caribbean, which, again, had to be pared back because some of the things were really cool, like the chest opening and the three spinning discs, just weren't reliable enough. and they were smart enough to learn from their mistakes to say, okay, we're going to disappoint some people by winding this back, but we're better off for doing this. Otherwise, we're going to put a game out that's going to cause us nightmares when it comes to support. I still think they could sell that game. If they put that game on the line and said, we're doing 500, they'll sell instantly. I'm telling you. Yeah. Well, I don't know the numbers of what they sell, but it was obviously cut short for some reason, and there still is a lot of demand for it. I love it. I think Pirates is a fantastic game. And I think it's a polarizing game. I don't think everyone loves it, but there's enough people that love it that you'd be able to shift quite a few more units. So, Marty, you're heading off to Brisbane Masters. I don't know how long you're going. That's certainly a 10-day event, so I assume you're going for at least four of them. Are you going to play? Yeah, that's absolutely right. You do, assuming correctly. I'm going to be there for the last two days For when the actual Brisbane Masters is on itself So yeah, there is actually From the 15th to the 24th There are so many pinball events on And also don't forget This is the Brisbane Pinball and Arcade Collective So there's actually other video game things So they have the Donkey Kong Kong-Off as well and there are other, I believe that there are other games that they are, like video games that they're also having tournaments for as well. So there's so much going on, but we couldn't be there for all of those 10 days. So we're just going to be there for the last two days. But the machines have already been sent up and people will be able to play those for the duration of the event. I'm sure it'll be a big hit. You mentioned the Kong-Off. Did you see that Stern retweeted something that Billy Mitchell did? And a lot of people in the comments were like, I wouldn't have him endorse your company and stuff. Do you know what? I didn't read any comments. I looked at it and went, huh, that's an interesting choice. Yeah. I wouldn't have done that. But there you go. There you go. Brisbane Masters, though. It's going to be a lot of fun. Lots going on. A lot of people from the North America coming over. I know Escher's going. Who else is coming? Justin Ardo is going. Yeah. Isn't Steven Bowden coming? That I didn't know. Oh, that's awesome. That'll be great. Could be mistaken. Well, you're going to guilt him now. Yeah. He could be going to Yagpin. I don't even know if I – let me check Yagpin because that's where I'm going to be headed. In Sherwood Park, Alberta. It's really Edmonton. Where's that? Where's that? Edmonton. Northern Alberta. Okay. Where's Alberta? Alberta. Where's – what's northern Alberta? Alberta's right beside British Columbia. It's the province right beside British Columbia. and it's a quick flight for all the Seattle people. I know that. It's their fifth annual. So can I just ask, is this in Canada? Is that what you're saying? Yes. Or is it in North America? You've never heard of Alberta? No. I guess I wouldn't know all your states. How many do you have? Five, six? What have you got? Well, I think we've got about maybe five states and a couple of territories. Did you get new government too? I thought I read that. Yes, we did. We did. My goodness, things are changing I mean, UK, Boris is going Boris is gone Yeah An ex-Japanese bloody president Got shot Come on, guys, just stop Yeah, I don't know about you We haven't podcast in a while There's been a lot of shit that's gone on in the world And quite honestly Whether I'm ready or not Or available to do a podcast A lot of times, I'm just not in the mood And I try not to be bummed out, but it's hard not to be when you see some of things. And there's been a lot lately. Come on, people. Fucking smarten up for the love of God or whoever your God is. I can see now that this is north of Calgary. Yes, yes, yes. Which I only know because I'm on Google Maps. It's north of Red Deer. Okay, you don't know. You've never heard Red Deer, so let me put that out there for crying out loud. I'm trying to find the tournament participants See if Steve is in there When I'm zooming in Calgary, I've zoomed out Calgary's there, Red Deer is halfway Between Calgary and Wherever this place is, Sherwood Park There's also There's also a place called Medicine Hat Medicine Hat's huge, yep Yep, okay, which dumb name There's also Moose Jaw Who came up with these names? People, who came up with these names? Wait a second Wait a second Hold on a second Prince Albert Hilarious Don't you fucking shit on my country These are real places In Australia Okay Humpy bong In southeast Queensland Humpy bong You're shitting on Medicine Hat Or Moose Jaw And you've got humpy bong Go fuck yourself You've got boing boing You've got quality knob That's a mountain Northwest of Brisbane Nice What else you got Boobs Flat in Tasmania. Bumbunga in Southern Australia. Fanny Bay. I fucking know Fanny Bay. Useless Loop. Useless Loop. Prickly Bottom. Mount Alder. Hold on a second. This is in your neck of the woods. This is in the Alpine region of Victoria. Mount Buggery. not to be confused with Mount Blowhard in Queensland. You have Cockwash Creek in southern Australia. Pisspot Creek. Bullshit Hill. Now, that can't be real, is it? No, it's not real. Keep in mind that bullshit is a real place. Oh, fuck, it's real. Bullshit Hill. Before anyone censors this article, profanity, keep in mind that Bullshit Hill is a real place in southern Australia located not far from Peterborough. Don't use shit on Medicine Hat or Moose Jaw. okay okay my goodness touche well done exactly i i have nothing to come back with that okay mental note comedy bits australian names resurrect that career here it is here it comes so yegpin will be fun and we mentioned playing the games now i bring up brisbane masters there's all kinds of different tournaments there there's five different ones at Yagpin. These are going to be fun. I want to shout out UK Open, too. Neil McRae is doing a big one in Robert Englunds, and I might be going in September. Oh, okay. Perhaps. Perhaps. We'll see. I paid my fee to go. I just haven't done everything else. So we'll see. I'd like to go there. I love Neil McRae. He's our backup announcer for the reach rounds when Mark's on. You know how that goes. But that'll be a lot of fun. The reason I bring this up, and this is where you need to come in, Marty. You've got to come in strong. I want you to put on your tournament hat again. Okay. I want you to care about tournaments for one freaking second here, okay? Because I care about tournaments. Okay. Go for it. The IFPA has made a bunch of changes that are going to be happening in 2023. It is the Formula 5.8. They're going to be changing a bunch of rules. Now, before we get into the rule changes, I want to talk about tournaments in general. Forget what the rule changes are. There are different pinball tournaments. I want your opinions on these pinball tournaments. There are five pinball formats that are endorsed by the IFPA. Five. There's the PAPA-style qualifying. That is the card-based, like InDisc, like the old PAPA facility. So you play X amount of games. Let's say it's five games. You play game one, two, three, four, five, and they all are on your card. Tough to do. That's a format. Yep. Keep that in mind. Gotcha. There's the best game, which is the herb scoring. So that's play it as many times, and your best score is the one that counts. And you get points based on how high you finish compared to everyone else. Playing a game over and over and over again. There's pin golf. You play nine holes, 18 holes, whatever the number of holes are. You're in a group of three, four people, two people, whatever. You play the course. If you get a certain score in one ball, there's a designated score. Let's pick an EM, and the score is 50,000. If you get 50,000 in one ball, you score a one. The lower in golf, the better. If you score that 50,000 in two, you would get a two on that hole, and you go from there on. So there's that format, pin golf. There's match play. We all know match play. You're in a group. You play. It could be a group of two, three, four. You play. The best person gets the most points. The worst gets the least. And the last is the flip frenzy or pinball, pinball, pinball. I don't know anyone who calls it that, but flip frenzies, which is essentially match play. two people playing and then you go to play another game against another person on another machine five formats they're making some changes in 2023 out of those formats first of all do those formats make sense to you do you think those are those are good ifpa endorsed formats sure yeah why not yeah fine they're okay well there's some pros and cons to all of them yeah i and i think i'm probably jumping ahead here but it's all about timing how long and how quick some of these can go right they talk about tgp so if you're playing 25 games of match play under the old format you've reached full tgp you're that's the maximum the tournament can be okay 25 meaningful games in match play if you're doing a group match play that's four people you would only need 13 rounds of that because in groups of four they multiply it by two so that's really 26 rounds you're good So match play, that's easy to understand. I guess the thing about the Herb format and pin golf, they're very similar in a way because the machine opens up first thing in the morning and goes, let's say, until midnight. And you're playing that machine, playing that machine, playing that machine. And maybe, perhaps, things go wrong with the machine. Maybe the flippers get weak. Who knows what the case may be. That happens in a lot of different tournaments. In fact, if you just watched Pintastic, there was an incredible game of mousing around with Jason Zoller, who won it against Raymond Davidson. And Jason was allowed to pick order. He picked first because he knew he would wear out the left flipper and make it so weak that it wouldn't be able to go around the ramp by the time Raymond got up, and he did that. So if that's just one game, imagine what it's like over a full day. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sure. If I'm playing pin golf, or if I'm doing best score, there's a bigger advantage playing earlier when the machine is in a better state. Now, the advantage of playing later is you've had more experience playing it, but in pinball golf, you don't get to go for it over and over again. So in herb, there is an advantage. Okay, the shot's there, the tilt bob's here, I got it. The more times you play, you're probably going to be better. The other are all direct play and match play. They are nerfing the flip frenzy. And I don't understand this at all, at all, because it is pure match play. There are some problems with foot frenzies. And the problems, I think, where people might not like them are that they might not have a guaranteed playoff. I think the problems are that maybe the foot frenzies aren't long enough. I think you need at least two and a half hours to hopefully make people play more people more games, that kind of things. I think if you have a playoffs, if you have the tiebreaker as fewest losses versus most wins, because somebody can play 26 games and go 14-12, and a good player can go 13-0 and lose if you do most wins. It doesn't make sense. It should be about winning percentage, and to do winning percentage, you do fewest losses. I'm talking long. I'm pissed off they're fucking nerfing the flip frenzies other than from what I've heard from some of the state and country directors. They just don't like it. Well, to you people, and I know your fucking names, it is match play. It is pure match play. Instead of nerfing it, why not fix the format? like you do other formats. Pin golf, you insist that there's a playoff. That's brilliant. For flip frenzies, insist there's a playoff. Insist that there's its fewest losses and a minimum time. Boom, there you go. They're nerfing it by half when, you know, the average of a bunch of games might be, let's say, 20 games in a flip frenzy. And the person who's the best player might have only played 15 and the shittiest player played 25. Well, then use the lowest. Then that's not nerfing it by half. That's nerfing it by whatever that number is. Everyone's played the same amount of rounds. Do you see what I'm saying? It's driving me nuts. Sure. It comes back to what I was saying before about timing, because with Flip Frenzy, you can play a shitload of games in a short period of time. So if you've got a lot of people, you can get to your max TGP because people can throw games. They can go, look, you're going to beat me. Let's throw the game, finish it, move on to the next game, get another game going. Put that in the rules. I agree. That's wrong. I get that. That's wrong. Yeah, but how do you police that? I think that's really what – I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to decisions for my FPA. What they're trying to do is control it. It's only hurting you to throw the game. If fewest losses is the consideration, you want to win differential. So if I go 10 and 5, I'm plus 5. But the tiebreaker for everyone else that's plus 5 is fewest losses. So my 10 and 5 is better than someone who's 11 and 6. See what I'm saying? Yeah, but then someone can be 5 and 0. and just sit on a camp on a game. Someone who would be 5-0 versus me 10-1. First of all, that's a big exaggeration. And again, we talked about, okay. Well, you said 14-12, 13-0. That's also a big exaggeration. You're right. I'm just saying those people would be equal. So someone who's 6-0 better than someone who's 10-5, I guess they would be, and they would advance to the playoffs. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. It really hard to police these things to control how people are playing these games And I don know whether there really has been anyone exploiting this format I think nerfing it by 50% is heavy-handed. Yep. So then you know what you do? Instead of nerfing it by half and to avoid having somebody who goes 6-0 and I'm just going to cradle up and cradle up or I'm going to play long or I'm going to keep going multiball. what if you said for flip frenzies their full tgp if the average is i don't pick a number 18 games so time's not the factor again it's the number of games the average needs to be at least 18 games or not even average everyone needs to play 18 games or whatever the number is 15 games but then that can go forever the thing about flip frenzy is you know when it's starting you know when it's finishing that's the best part of it it's really easy to organize on a night you know it's a fixed fixed i think it is unbelievably un-fucking-believably lazy capital l four-letter word lazy for the ifpa to be nerfing it by half there are better solutions and because some of these state directors just don't like it that's fucking so so weak and it's pathetic you should be embarrassed. I will continue to embarrass you on these podcasts because it is ridiculous to ruin something that's really positive for pinball and getting people to come to pinball. Is it hurting the best players? I don't know how it would be if you're still winning in match play. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's weak because people can't do, like you say, eight-hour tournaments for pin golf to maybe get full TGP. It's just not possible. So someone will actually play more than three times the amount of games and it hurts them? Come on. Fuck, that's weak. Find a better solution. Like seriously, as opposed to just nerfing it. Let me give a positive too. I've seen every other change they made on 5.8. I think they're all good ideas. The bigger tournaments, if you're in a league that plays more than 25 TGPs, I think that's awesome. That's great. The solution for foot frenzies, have a playoffs, have a minimum amount of time or a minimum number of games, one of those two makes it a better solution. How do you feel about the change to concurrent games? That's fine. I mean, I don't get it, but that's fine. I don't know why they had to make that change. Hopefully to discourage it. I absolutely hate it. Hate it. I hate concurrent games. And again, that's just people sort of saying, I hate concurrent games, just because I like to focus on one game at a time. Are you not playing two games though? Well, you can be playing. If you've got three games in the final, even four games in the final, you could be playing all of them simultaneously. How is that not... Okay. So I would rather play one game, one particular machine, and see that through, then move on to the next one. But what's the logic in you don't think that you're playing that many games? Why is it being nerfed? Just because you don't like it? I'm not nerfing it. People are nerfing it. I know, but... Even the IFPA nerfed it. But why are they nerfing it? What's the logic behind it? I think, I don't know. I mean, people have probably objected to it, and that's why they've changed it. It doesn't bother me that much. I don't understand it. Yeah, I don't like it. Look, at the end of the day, I think these changes to the IFPA happen because people complain about fairness. They're saying nerf flip frenzies because it is not fair that you can earn so many points in three hours, whereas I've got a tournament that's eight hours and it doesn't earn as much or it earns the same and there's so much more effort that goes into it. And obviously they're the people that are saying, this is not fair. And it's the same thing probably about concurrent finals is they're saying, this is not fair. We don't have this format. So therefore nerf it. As opposed to what you're saying is, don't fix it, nerf it. Yeah. Lazy. Lazy. Lazy, IFPA. Fucking lazy. Lazy. And I say that, you know how much I kidded with Josh Sharpe. I love the man. This isn't at him. There are a lot of directors that he didn't make this decision. It was voted upon, but it's pretty lazy. It's really, really fucking weak. And, of course, the smart-ass answer is, well, start your own fucking league. No. You know, you make changes for the better, but there's no reason for this change at all, the flip frenzy thing. Don't get it. Don't get it at all. Okay. It's all fucking match play. That's all it is. It's direct play. Unlike Herb's scoring and pin golf, the only time you have direct play is the 10% needed for the finals. Hmm. This is always direct play. Okay. Anyway, let's put it this way. I've run a gabillion fucking flip frenzies. Never had one person say to me, didn't have fun, didn't like it. Maybe they didn't like how they performed. Jeez, that's funny. That's common for anything, right? But that's different. Anyway, really, really sucks. I know Ryan C agrees with me and so do others, but there's ways to fix it. You know, again, you fix pin golf by saying there has to be direct play, there has to be playoffs. Okay, that's fine. I also don't like that format, but I think it's fair. I think what you're doing is fair. So fix a flip frenzy. That's what you should be doing because it's a pretty fucking popular tournament. Yeah, and look, I kind of agree with you that it's unfortunate because it was, Well, it is. It continues to bring new people into the pinball competitive scene because it's a really good gateway for people to have fun. You know, you don't get knocked out in the first game and go home after an hour or after you've driven a couple of hours to get there. You have guaranteed three hours of play minimum. So it kind of reminds me when they nerfed the selfie leagues as well, when that was starting to bring people in. And they're like, hang on. There was no policing there, though. That's true. That was very exploitable. I've run flip frenzies. I've been in flip frenzies. It is because there is so much going on, it is much harder to police them. So that's kind of what I'm coming back to is I think IFBA have gone, well, we can't control these. Therefore, we're going to control it by making it not worth as much. Yep. It's funny. The world's greatest pinball tournament had more TDs than you can ever imagine. Than any other tournament. More players than anyone. I'm not just going to say the tournament by name, but I think you know which one it is. Where was the policing when four people decided, hey, if we all take sixes in our last round, we'll make the playoffs? Four people colluding? Who's going to know? Yep. But that stands. That's fine. So they had to change the rules the following year. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I hear what you're saying is investigate and fix is really what you're saying. The key word I said was lazy. Lazy. There's a fix there. And think of it from the arcade's point of view. And I think of Ryan and stuff. He's an operator. I think of other operators. You know, if you're doing match play at a location, well, a lot of people are standing around while that long playing game is finishing out. Whereas a flip frenzy, quarters go in, quarters go in, quarters go in because everything's being used all the time. So you're kind of hurting arcades that way too. you are sure do you feel better for that no i fucking hate it oh fuck my fly is undone too perfect perfect this is great great fucking great let me see here holy shit do we get a lot of emails like a lot like a lot and this was this was in response to our last episode where we talked about really we were sort of talking about the future of the podcast and how do we continue given that it's quite taxing to do the episode every fortnight and both of us are really busy and so we were putting it out to our fan base you can't see my inverted commas but fan base uh to see what they thought and we got a lot of emails from a lot of people like more emails than we've ever had ever it was very nice Well, we talked about editing being a problem. We've solved that problem. I guess we haven't told people about that. We have solved that problem. We were thinking, do we do less? Do we do video? Do we do this, this, that, whatever? The hard part about video is the time zone difference between you and I. It is right now 12.30 in the morning for myself, and it is, what, 2.30 there for you? Correct. In the afternoon? That is true. So if we did video here in North America, we might be lucky to see maybe some people on the West Coast kind of tune in, in Medicine Hat, Alberta maybe, other places with different time zones. Whereas mid-afternoon for Australia, okay, that's fine, but good chance they're all fucking pissed at, what are some of those dumb names, Mount Billabong or whatever. What was it, Bullshit Creek or something? Bullshit Creek. Here again. Boing, boing. Quality knob. quality nipple bend boob bumbunga mount buggery mount blowhard spankernob that's in fucking Victoria that's near you bullshit hill, cockwash creek in Adelaide and pisspot creek so anyway those people are at 2.30 in the afternoon they're trying to get out of their city They're not going to be watching us on the stream. So we decided we're going to stick to the audio. That's fine. Maybe once in a while. Maybe. Maybe we'll do a video. We've done a few in the past. But the editing thing is my good friend here, Marty Robbins, and I are going to take turns editing. So when it's good, you know who did it. And when it sucks and you hear coughs and farts and stuff. You know who did it. Go easy on Marty. Just go easy on him. But thank you, everybody, that did reach out to us. We do appreciate it. What are some highlights? Well, there were lots. Pick whatever you want. I like the one from Ed from Denmark. Okay, go for that one. Hi, Jeff and Marty. As I told Jeff when we met and played a bit together at the IFPA finals, the pinball asylum, I enjoy your show. It's actually one of my favorites. Thanks, Ed. I often laugh out loud every now and then while listening on my bike to The Way to Work. I wanted Marty to know that too because he passed it along to me. So that was very nice. As far as the editing, I like the format, how it is now. And can we please stop the who will Marty save bit? It's funny though because he's saying it gets a bit old and you know I don't. We've also had somebody else saying, I only listen to it because I want to hear who Marty's going to kill. So mixed messages people. We just want some consistency. But he did say, I just like your banter from time to time talking about competitions. When was the last time you actually talked directly about competitive pinball? Well, it was 15 minutes ago. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. Every now and then, it has to... I mean, that's a big change with the IFPA's done and it's going to affect a lot of things. I didn't even mention this. You can do one-ball flip frenzies and they're not nerfing that. I'm sure they will after hearing this podcast. The whiny sucks. But you can do one-ball flip frenzies and it counts for a third. but the time to do that it's actually the same it's stupid that they would count that but you know that's probably what we're going to see a lot of there are people with software for that so uh anyway it is what it is michael came through love the last episode guys made me smile when martin said how much he liked rush yes you did i did i maintain it have you played more than one game on it i've played two okay uh michael had a chance to play rush for the first time couldn't believe how much fun it was. It says a lot when the game is good, even with music call-outs, doubly so for a bad pin. As soon as I get back from vacation, I immediately listed my Cactus Canyon SE for sale in order to get a Rush Premium. It left that much of an impression on me. Wow, and he only played it three times. So, Michael, nice. So, friend of the show and friend of the stream, pretty much the only person that streams on Melbourne Silver Bowl these days, is Oz Eric. and Oz Eric was absolutely not going to get a rush. So he went to Hashman and Danger A's last night and played Rush. He called me today and said, I'm getting a rush. You know what I mean? Like that's just how good this game is. And what he said was, he said, I've now come to the conclusion that I'm a Borg fan. And I kind of said the same thing, and I know I've said this on the show before. I just sort of did a list of all my favourite games and I went, hang on. They're Borg. There are a lot of John Borg games here. So a lot. He doesn't necessarily reinvent the wheel. That is for sure, right? But what he does, he knows how to make a game that shoots great. And don't fuck it up. If you know what shoots well, just do it. Don't try to do something crazy. Yeah. I mean, Guardians was a hybrid of some Metallica and some Iron Man, perhaps. And, you know, you can see a little bit of X-Men and Rush. I love the shots that you see in this game. Walking Dead is very unique and a tough shooter, but fun. I still think Metallica is Stern's best game ever. Yeah, I think you and I agree on that. Yeah, I think Godzilla's going to get there maybe. I was playing that again last night. Fuck it, is that a good shooting game? I mean, it's just... Is it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, it's good. What don't you like about it? I don't like how it shoots. What don't you like about it? No, here we go. So what I don't like about it, and I know I could potentially fix this myself, but it's not the way it's intended. I don't like flop flippers. Don't like it at all. At all. And they are flopped. And it just means that anything up the middle is harder to shoot. So I don't like that that's the way the flippers are angled. But you could get used to that. No, I don't like it at all. I've had years to get used to these things. There's some games where it works. Here's what I think, right? I'm going on a bit of a rant here again, guys. Sorry, but I'm now... I literally filled up a one-litre bottle with gin. So I'm now at that stage, right? There are games, I think, where if you design with that in mind, it works out great. So if you think of George Gomez games, he always has the flop flippers and he designs around it. Dead Pools, like that, isn't it? Deadpool, perfect. Works well with those flippers because there's really only one centre shot, which is the spinner at the top, but everything else is designed for those flippers to be the angle that they are. Jurassic Park came with normal flippers. Then later on in its life cycle, it was being shipped with flop flippers, and it just doesn't play this well. It just doesn't. Orbits are easier to get, so it's probably done it so you can get the O-shot better. Ramps are potentially easier to get. Anything up the center, forget about it. It's just really hard to hit anything up the center. But again, a game like Deadpool, it's designed specifically to have the flop flippers because it's not allowed up in the middle, right? When you say harder to hit in the middle, I hope you mean only on the fly because it's not hard if they're cradled. It is harder. It is harder. It's earlier. It is harder. It's not the same. I remember when I was first tasked with dialing in Celts for the first time. And I did flop the flippers because I felt that the orbits were going to be much better, and they were. It was literally orbit after orbit after orbit. But you couldn't backhand the horseshoe. And Damien said to me, well, I designed this game with the horseshoe in mind. So, sorry. What game are you talking about? Kelps. Okay. So I put them back. And now I did get a bit of almost like a happy compromise where you can get orbits repeatedly, not as good, but you can now backhand the horseshoe on the fly where you couldn't do that before with the flippers flopped. That's just the difference. I know people sort of say, oh, it's only a tiny little bit. It's not. It really changes the dynamics of the game. It changes the geometry of the game by having the flippers like that. But my rant is over. That's the thing I really don't like about Godzilla. Now, people could say change the flippers. Sure, I don't own one, so I can't. And I can't just go up to someone and say, look, sorry, can you change these flippers before I have a game? It's just not going to happen. If Rush had flopped flippers, you'd hate it. I probably would, yeah, particularly because... The center is so important. The center is so fucking important. There are like four shots up the middle, and that time machine, whatever it is, is it a time machine? I don't know. Yep, maybe. Yep. You've got to hit that a lot, and you've got to hit that on the fly. If you had flopped flippers, it would just be so much harder. And it comes back to what I said. I like John Borg's games. He doesn't flop the flippers. Some people do flop the flippers on The Walking Dead, I have noticed. Don't do it. Yeah, I have seen that. You're right. You're right. Yeah, because it makes hitting the targets on the left much easier, and it makes, obviously, getting the wood end shot, wood end? Woodbury? Shot. Whatever it is, yeah. So that's what they do. They flop the flippers if you've got shots that need to be made on the extreme sides of the game. Back to the emails. Bob Wessner writes, hey, guys, love the episode this week. I've been listening since the beginning, and I'm always looking forward to the next Who Will Marty Save? He also likes the Reaper software, so thanks, Bob. What else do we have? Nathan Yates, Jeff and Martin. Just got done listening to the most recent final round. and felt like I had to send an email thanking you guys for all your hard work through the years. I'm new to the hobby a little over a year, but I've become completely enamored with competitions, pinball news, content, etc. This wouldn't have happened without wonderful podcasts like Fun Around and the amazing backlog of Head to Head I can always return to. Keep in mind this coming from a guy in the middle of nowhere in Arkansas, yeah? I'd rather live in fucking Arkansas than prickly bottom Australia. Prickly bottom! Give me Arkansas over Cockwash Creek any day of the week. Oh, boy. Can I just, like, are these actual places, or did you just make stuff up? This is the blog, Destinations Australia, 30 Hilarious and Real Places and Towns Named in Australia. I will send you the link. You think I'm joking? It's on winetraveler.com. Yeah, that's where I go to get my geography. So what? Completely legit. Yeah, got a blue tick on it for sure. Hold on. Oh, it's verified. There you go. You've got some traveling to do on the way to Brisbane. You think I'm joking? Take a look at that. It's not that I think you're joking. I just don't know whether it's real. You know that. Wow, you try. No, that's right. Click that. Eggs and Bacon Bay? What? How can you miss that? because there's you've missed sauce bottle swamp how could you and sausage galley i was like i did like sausage galley i'll give you that one what a knobby i do know about what a knobby oh so they are real mossy prominent knob prominent knob mossy nipple bend isn't that what ryan called you anyway um bomb bugger there's actually a plate there's actually a place called nowhere else honest to god there's no wonder you have a new government oh my god okay there is actually a cave this is legit everybody there's a cave that's called well it wasn't there last year oh oh see that's humor everybody that's humor useless loop hilarious yep those are all Okay. Apparently they're real. It's on the internet, so it must be real. What else did Nathan say? I had the pleasure of attempting to qualify for Classics at this year's TPF during the morning sessions. I noticed how nice and friendly you are. Jeff and Steven Bowden also seem to be with everyone else. I was going to say a few thank yous for all the great content I enjoyed over the last year, but it seemed like you and I were both having some rough bounces in those first few games. as far as the questions regarding zoom video all that stuff whatever you do is fine don't change make it work anyway thanks okay oh hold on anyway just wanted to thank you guys for everything you do and jeff don't give up on those comedic dreams thanks nathan hey uh by the way if you see marty at brisbane masters if you see myself whether it's uh obviously one of the pinball profile tours or any kind of big tournament please come up to us and say hi. We don bite unless you ask Let me know my fly down things like that Yeah So what I want you to do people if you see Jeff at any of these pinball tournaments ask him to do one of his stand-up gigs for you. Just, I want you to hear the material. Ask him to give us a joke just so you can judge whether he had the goods. That's all I want you to do. Okay? Anyway, back to the email. So Robert says, the title of his email is, make Teolas work and keep it an edited show. Okay. What a dick. He's another person that's also recommended Repo, so we might have to have a look at that. Yeah. He said, I'd love for you to keep the audio podcast format, even if it's just a rip of your live video feed. Personally, as an old man, I don't deal well with all the streaming and video junk the kids are up to. You old farts should understand. We do. We do. As your one listener, I hope you'll do what's best for me. I love our listeners. Just letting you know. I got to say, you know, when we ask for emails, they're fucking great. You guys. Yes. They're funny as shit. And we do respond to everything. Mark Lawrence had a good one. You guys are great interacting with the emails and reaching out to everyone. I love the show. I wanted to share a testimonial from the streets for the help on the new Toy Story 4 subject. Okay. I was the normal person with the reaction to Toy Story 4 in the pinball world. I was so upset that it was carnival themed because I had no interest in that point. By the way, just like you said, Toy Story 4 is a fucking great movie. Duke Nukem, hello. I know how much you love Keanu, but Duke Nukem, they stole the show. Okay, back to the email. My local arcade got the game in. Shout out to Retro Arcade in Sharon, Pennsylvania. I played three games. I was hooked. It's not something to fear. It has charm. It has feeling directed towards the Toy Story world and characters. The carnival stuff doesn't even bother me like I thought it would. and it's got amazing gameplay. First weekend after its release, I was sitting on the grand champ board and hyping the game on my socials. That's pretty cool. I've never had so much fun with a new release, and my local community, as I've had with Toy Story 4. Nice endorsement. That's pretty good. Hope you guys both love it and have good stories to share on the next episode. I'm sure I'll like playing it. Yes, I'm... Think about it, right? Like other easy shooters. You had Munsters. That was an easy shooting game, but it was fun, you know? You felt good playing it. Elvira House of Horrors, extremely easy to shoot. People love that game. Good code. Fun to shoot. Star Trek, sure. Big, easy ramp. Makes you feel good. So I think you'll feel good on Toys... I just... You know, yes, Travis Murray, he gets it day one. And I think he had the Wizard Mode three times or within the first few days of having it. Carl D'Python Anghelo did that. There was one thing on it, and I don't know if it's been nerfed, you know, like a flip frenzy, that kind of nerfing, but they had a thing where you can keep adding a ball over and over and over again, and it was endless, ooh, maybe you want to scale that back a little bit. Yeah, maybe cap that. There you go. Here's another email, and I'm going to nominate this for email of the fortnight or month, how long it's been. Okay. This is titled Integrity Problem. This is from Glenn. Thanks for writing in, Glenn. It says, hey, shit stains. Too busy for a sponsor this week? Are you trying to tell me that you were too busy to shop for one or that the truth might come out, you two fucksticks got nobody to pay you this week. If you're going to be in the pinball media, you're going to need to be transparent with your audience. I really think you should take some journalism night classes at a local community college so your listeners don't get fooled again. Fuck off. Well, the good thing about Glenn is we know he listens to a billion other podcasts. So, Glenn, you're fine. If we're pissing you off there, we love Glenn. A little secret. I mean, this is really pulling back the curtain. If you go back and listen to the reach-arounds, I know Do you know that Glenn was one of our singers? I do I'll give you a clue, he wasn't Ed Ed Robertson So That's a big clue But I thought he did a great job Anyway, we love Glenn So that's my nomination for Hold on, hold on We got more From Washington I'm going to boot this name Issaquah? from Issaquah, Washington. Forgive me, Northwest. I don't know. I've never been there. They're not as easy to pronounce as some of those stupid names in Australia. But Daniel Rosenstein, you have at least one listener. I love your show. Both of you have a way of playing off each other and are interesting to listen to. Really? Okay. Doing the... Thanks. Doing the show over Zoom and posting it is perfectly okay, especially if it means more show, more time. I'll tell you what, Daniel. we might not do the video thing but I can promise you and I think Marty and I both have said okay, calendar's starting to look pretty good you are going to hear more of us we're going to get back to our regular schedule we've just been busy and I think we've got we'll let you know if we have to step away for a bit because we're away or busy with work but I think we can get back to our fortnight schedule, don't you? I think absolutely, for sure here's another one, this is from a friend of the show, Lucas first, my two cents are worth are worth more than yours as I'm an American so please take that as an advice while reading my thoughts. I listen to every episode and you both know I love you. I consider you my best Canadian and Australian friends. Not sure if that's saying much or if it's saying everything. If you ask for feedback, feedback will be given. I'm all for a VOD version of the show. While I love the audio, I'm about to start a new job where I'll be working remotely full time. This will allow me the opportunity to pull up YouTube, Facebook, and et cetera and watch. Editing is a bitch and time suck. Just grip it and rip it, baby. So I hope you're both well. Hope our paths cross in future. Yeah, and if Lucas, If Lucas, if his boss is listening, the boss might be wondering, okay, you're doing YouTube on the new job? Be careful there, Lucas. You're on probation for the next three months, so maybe you might want to actually get the job done. So maybe stay off the socials for a little bit. Okay, bud. I think I have to tell you about where I was last week. I had a wonderful trip with my lovely wife, Anne. We started off to a little town called Hershey, Pennsylvania, and just outside of there, There's a family that we know and love, the Pins. We spent time with Mrs. Pin and Dr. Pin. In fact, we FaceTimed Marty. We FaceTimed him after a few gins. So I remember, this is how bad it could have been. Marty and I were talking yesterday. Yeah, we're going to record tomorrow. Yeah, okay, good. Yeah, I had a good time with the Pins. Oh, yeah, I talked to you. I totally forgot about it. Yeah, you did. You called me and Damien. And we were at – this is how my life has changed. I was at a printing expo. Oh, you lucky bastard. Fuck, it was good. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Nice. But, yeah, it was lovely to see the pins and yourself, but I see you all the time. But it was lovely to see the pins. But you caught up with – I mean, obviously, you're traveling, so you get to catch up with a lot of pinball people. So, you know. That was great. I mean, lovely collection there, and I saw Christian's setup for his super awesome show. It was very, very cool. They've got some big things going. I saw, I should give Christian shit, or Franchi, or maybe even Jeff Parsons. They had a new logo that came out, and they're already asking for votes for Twippies for next year. Like, oh, slow down there. Slow down, champ. Fuck me. We're in the wrong business, you and I, I think. But anyway, they've got some good shows coming up. They had Jersey Jack on and all that kind of fun stuff. So it was nice to see him. And I did grill Mrs. Pin. I'm like, when are you going to do one of these shows? She's pretty busy. She can't do it. Kids are getting older. And so I may have recorded them. And that will be coming out on a Pinball Profile show. So listen for that. But then we took off. We went to Philadelphia. And then we went to Delaware for my Played in America tour at the Delaware Pinball Collective. Rodney and Joe and everyone there, 50-plus people. It was so much fun. What a great collection. They're going to do a bunch of tournaments there, but everyone was asking, where's Marty, and had nothing but good things to say. So that was a real hoot, and it got me thinking. You know, we love Joe Fox, obviously, because of putting money in our pockets, really, is the real reason. But he's also a good guy. He's a good guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Money aside, he's also good. It's running out. Time to top up. Anyway, good guy, great collection. those collectives, man a lot of work but they pay off I mean if you've got a good crew I'm looking forward to going to the one in Rochester with Bruce Nightingale and Zach and all those people there I never got a chance to see the one in Virginia but I've been to the Sanctum which started off as a collective my wife came out of there and she goes why don't you do that where we live and I'm like well I'm just one person it would take a lot of people and it's easier said than done but if it works, fuck it's fantastic I'd love to have those Okay, brings us to our last email, and it says, Marty, who will you save? Yes, we're doing it. Fucking right we are. You're damn right we are. Who was that email from? It was from Ed, who said, stop doing it. Emil Dreiborg from Denmark, all right? He was there with Peter Anderson representing Denmark and Copenhagen and all that kind of good stuff. He hates this show, so we're going to save him. Should we put them in the show? For sure. We should? Yeah, why not? Okay. I'm putting two others. It's a three-way. Okay. We're doing a three-way. Ed, you're top of mind first. Not your first. Won't be my last. You are in this Who Will Marty Save, which means two people are going to peril. Two. And I just had the pleasure of spending time with Dr. Pin and also Joe Fox. I think Joe Fox has been in one of these before. If he hasn't, he's due. You've got three people that enjoy our show, enjoy our company, and Marty. If I was in your shoes and I had to only save one, that would be so, so tough. But unfortunately, we are all at an amusement park and we're on the greatest roller coaster ever. Oh my God, they're so much fun. And thank you for operating it, Marty. But as it's taking off, you notice that the bars aren't down completely. And you've got time only to save one person before they go flying to their peril. It's sad. It's tragic. Who's it going to be? Is it going to be Emil from Denmark? Is it going to be Joe Fox or Dr. Pin? This thing does several loops. It goes 300 feet in the air. No one's surviving this. Don't even give me any bullshit. Oh, he's a doctor. He can save. What's going to happen? Damn it. I know where you're going. No, no, no. You, Marty, stop. You're yelling, stop. You're screaming really high. And you can only throw your hand and save one person by locking their bar in. Who is it going to be? Okay. I just need to get some clarifying questions out of the way. Is this a wooden roller coaster or is it a steel roller coaster? Is it a hybrid? How many inversions does it have? How much airtime are we talking? Well, this is from the land of Spankernob, Australia. This is one of the famous metal ones. So it's not the wooden one. We're going to see a few loops, a few big drops. Okay. Now, the reason why I ask that, because drops are fine. You know, gravity will keep people in their seats. If you've got a lot of airtime, airtime is where, just side note everybody, Jeff knows this, I've been obsessed with rollercoaster videos in the last couple of months. So airtime is where people get thrown out of their seats, right? If you don't have your lap bar, right? Tons of airtime in this sucker. Yep. Okay. So what you're saying is really there's no chance of two of these people surviving. Like they're not just going to get head injuries. They're going to die, right? And if I'm being honest, it's probably not an instant death. It's probably like... Oh, long and painful. Okay, sorry. Yeah. I'm sorry, guys. Okay. On the way to the hospital in the ambulance in excruciating pain. And I want to point out another little fact here, too. All right? Uh-huh. Emil's a tall guy. Okay. Joe's a big guy. Dr. Pin's a smaller guy. But Dr. Pin also lives near Hershey, Pennsylvania, like really close to it. And they, I think, are seasoned members there at Hershey Park. So he does a lot of roller coasters. So he's tempting fate. Yeah, they've got a roller coaster at Hershey Park that often gets in people's top tens. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that because of the Hershey squirts you have after riding it or what? I don't know. What are the Hershey squirts? Is that from the food? Hershey is a brand of chocolate bar. Hershey squirts are what you call when you shit yourself. Okay. But is that a known thing or did you just make that up? No, that's a known thing. Okay, cool. You've never heard of the Hershey Highway? No. It's the bum hole. Okay. I only heard of Hershey because of the Hershey chocolate. Hershey Kisses, right? Yes, yes, yes. Which I've got to say, not that nice. Hershey chocolate. Just so you know. You know what I did for the pins for their kids? I brought them all kinds of Canadian things that you could only get in Canada. And a bunch of them were all chocolates. And here I am going into the beast where everyone's probably employed by a Hershey. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Here are Smarties. These are good. Here are Maltesers. This is good. This is a coffee crisp. And they were like, this is awesome. Big sugar high. They never went to bed. It was awesome. Anyone that comes to Australia, try our Cadbury chocolate. Any Cadbury chocolate. It is better than Cadbury chocolate around the world. I'll tell you that. And also what I'll tell you is that whilst we've been recording this podcast, I've literally just eaten a whole block of Cadbury banana and caramel chocolate. Wow. And it's just come out and it is the whole thing. The whole thing's just gone. It's fucking amazing. Anyway, back to killing people. We've got Jill Fox from Delaware. We've got Emil Dreiborg from Denmark who hates this. He can't stand the who will they save. So obviously I want to save him. Obviously I want to save him because he hates this segment and I hate this segment. So that's why I want to save him. Wait, let me go through. Dr. Pin saves lives. literally saves lives. Joe Fox is fucking awesome. And I think the first time I went to Pinberg, he was the first person that recognized me. And let's not forget how much that goes. Also a big supporter of Agus. Just saying. Have you ever met Emil? No, I haven't. No. He goes around with a shirt that says, Craftwork sucks. I don't know if that has any... Electronic music is for losers. How does he feel about Led Zeppelin? Fucking loves him. Fucking loves him. I just feel they're all going to die. Because I think what's going to happen is, as the carriage goes down the first hill, everybody notices the lap bar problem they all scramble to fix it someone reaches over the only person that i've saved and they get out of theirs to try and save other people and they all die i feel is what's going to happen but i know that's not the point of this you just want me to fucking terrible terrible so let me rephrase that who if you could save one who would it be dr pin why dr pin because of his awesome gin collection oh my god is it ever it puts it was so huge like two shells of it it was almost you know what it reminded me i don't know if he's a big gin guy like he even had a it was an ice machine that made gin and tonics like frozen gin top fuck was great yeah i need that in my life oh my gosh you're sipping it like it's a pop or something. You're like, wait a minute, this is loaded with alcohol, and that's the phone call I forgot I made to you. So sorry, Emil. Sorry, Joe. But had you a huge gin collection and a gin and tonic icing machine, you might have stood a chance. But no, sorry. But has he always been a gin guy? Because I think I asked him, and he said, yeah, only a few years ago was he really into this. So I'm like, okay, I know the basement that has the bar has only been built over the last few years. I know he's only recently gotten gin. I know he also loves you, loves Ryan, loves Ted, loves this show. Is he a gin fan? He is now. Is he the pinball version of Annie Wilkes from Misery, where he's an obsessed fan of you, Marty, and he wants to be everything like you and be the gin thing? I'm getting that vibe. I'm just saying. Watch out for the hobbling. I don't care. Kill me. But if you're obsessed with me before then, I'm okay with it. I'm okay. I do remember things like that because as I've talked about this so many times, I know we're an hour and a half into this podcast, guys, and we're rambling on. But I still remember the first time I went over to America, no one knew me. I got a pretty cold reaction and I remember that. But I remember the people that took time out to say hello, you know, and then being known, it got more common. And I remember those things. So I remember walking out of the hotel for the first time, not knowing where I was going, Joe Fox saying hello. I remember that time, and you were there, when we were drinking at a bar, and someone, I think his name was Jeff, bought me a gin and tonic. First time someone's just randomly, a waiter comes over and goes, here's a gin and tonic. You know what I mean? I just remember that stuff. And on saying that, if it's ever happened where someone's come up to say hello to me and I've been an absolute fucking asshole, call me out on it because I don't like that. And send an email. I'll totally expose them. I know what you're talking about. I remember, oh boy, this is going back five years ago. So I was just really starting a pinball profile. I went to the Louisville Arcade Expo, and I met somebody I'd never met before. He lived in Georgia, if I recall, and his name was Alberto, Alberto Luna, if you're listening. And he just started talking, and he told me he liked the podcast and maybe he felt good and all that kind of stuff. and the next thing I know, I'm going to buy entries for Louisville Arcade Expo for the Pump and Dump. And they're like, you've got 20. I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure I had one left. He goes, no, no, somebody just paid for a bunch of your entries. And I'm like, what the fuck? It was Alberto. And I was like, wow, that's nice. The next time I see him is at Pinburg. He's got a pinball profile shirt on. I was like, that made me feel really good. So I appreciate that kind of stuff. It doesn't get forgotten. It's not poo-pooing. I mean, I'm blown away. You and I, we put our fucking pants on the same as everyone else, but thanks for sending us. Except some of us put our fucking zip up. There is that. Alberto would have told me my fly was down. Let's Berto drink one. Yes, yes. Berto Moon, you'll see. I know. Again, he came to the load of me at Pinberg as well. Good shit. Yeah, we remember that stuff, guys. We really do. It's surprisingly flattering. My wife and my son got to see it at these Pinball Profile events, and I don't know, it means a lot. So thanks very much. And we don't do it for any recognition. We do it because we enjoy talking to each other, and if somebody happens to listen along, and apparently they do. And you can email us too and tell us you listen, and what you'd like to hear. It means a lot to us. So our email is, I'll even throw it out, finalroundpinball at gmail.com. if we had socials you could probably go I don't know where we're on Facebook yeah we're on Facebook that's just final round pinball final round at final round pin on Twitter final round pinball podcast on Instagram but there you go because we had so many good emails come through that's why we sort of wanted to really say a big thank you to everybody because it sort of reminds me when we were talking about how we didn't get nominated for a Twippy. Not that we mention it every single fucking episode. I haven't. But what we said is it's probably because our fans, the people who listen to the show, are like us, and they also don't give a shit about the Twippies. And by the tone and language that's come through on these emails, these people are just like us. Love it. We'd love to hear from you. Please send us an email. Shoot us something on Facebook. It would mean a lot to us. And we will respond and have some fun with you, too. I wanted to get this show out because it's been a while, and I apologize. I have been away, and I know it's late, and I'm tired and all that stuff, but it still was fun to do this. It was worth staying up late to talk to you, Marty, and get this out. We will do this again when I'm wide awake in a fortnight. We will do this within two weeks. Until then, my name is Geoff Teelis. My name is Martin Robbins. Thanks, everybody, for listening. We love you.