coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey let's get ready to rock and roll episode number 74 of the special when lit pinball podcast what's going on pinball land my name is ken cromwell and not with me today not with me today is Bill Webb. Bill's taking a week off. We want to congratulate Bill Webb on the birth of baby Billy V, the newest addition over there at the Webb household. So Bill and Jamie Webb, congratulations. We appreciate all of the... Actually, we were contacted by a lot of people offering congratulations, and when I say we, a lot of that correspondence went through me, which I forwarded over to Bill. So thanks for all the get well wishes. Not get well wishes. Nobody's sick, but thanks for all the early recovery wishes and the congratulatory statements as they've all been passed on to the web family. Nicely done. I'm going to take a different approach here on this podcast. Typically, there's a fair amount of editing that goes into these things. And what I wanted to do is go ahead and offer this podcast as I do it solo with zero editing, with the exception of some post editing, adding some music and tidbits and whatnot. But as far as the content goes, bear with me. Not used to doing this by myself. So sit back and relax as we just get started. Best effort I can to inform and entertain for the next 30 minutes or so. It's going to be a little bit shorter of a special one-lit pinball podcast today. Without the articulated insight of Bill Webb, I may be spinning my wheels. I wanted to welcome aboard to the show two important people. As you guys know, I've been trying to get this industry buzz segment up and running. And when I had it in my mind, I thought to myself, it would be kind of cool to have, you know, at the time I was thinking seven manufacturers and seven different correspondents. And each one of those correspondence giving me 60 to 90 seconds that I could piece together into one kind of flash on what's going on in the industry news. So right now we are welcoming aboard two new correspondents. So I wanted to welcome Ken and Craig to the correspondent team. Ken's going to be covering Jersey Jack pinball. Craig's going to be covering Stern pinball, which is huge for me because I've been doing a lot as far as covering Stern pinball. Now I'm still going to cover Stern in the way that I want to cover Stern, but I also think that it's important to have some new guys in here with some fresh perspective and see what they can come up with. It just introduces additional talking points. And, you know, where we might not recap everything that they speak of, I think it would be interesting, again, to see what they're finding out and, you know, discuss as we will. So without further ado, let's get rolling with Industry Buzz. Getting the news from around the industry in this week's Industry Buzz. Hello from Dr. John, your special win-lit, spooky pinball correspondent. Big news out of the Spooky Podcast this month was the announcement of more details for their Fang Club. Emails will be going out to previous Spooky purchases initially, but this club is open to anybody whether you've bought a Spooky game before or not. In short, they have two levels. For $35 you get a membership card, or dismembership card as they call it, a keychain, access to a quarterly YouTube channel hosted by Bug at Spooky with exclusive content and a 24 by 36 inch heavy card poster with art by Bill Rood. So that's your basic entry. If you want more, Spooky is going to dabble in what they call the Bloodsuckers or BS edition. For $525 you can join this club which includes all the previous benefits plus specials such as a two-week early order of upcoming titles and importantly, it's sort of like the LE model of the game with absolutely no gameplay differences. So there's a lot more sculpts on the game. Importantly, the legs, apron, hinges and side rails are all custom cut vein armour which apparently has to be seen to be believed plus a custom laser etched plaque on the apron with your details on it. This $525 membership doesn't have to be used on any particular game. If you like the next game, which will be by Scott Denisey, you can say, all right, I want the Bloodsuckers edition of that. But if you'd rather wait and not purchase that game or purchase a standard, you can transfer your Bloodsuckers membership onto the next title after that. if you buy via distributor you just have to let them know you're in the Bloodsuckers Club and they will get your game early and as it should be these Bloodsuckers in brackets limited edition models will be the first built and shipped to the customers so there's no limit on these it's not really an LE basically pay your money get your early membership get your increased bling and it will stay open for four weeks after the announcement of the game. After that four weeks, these custom collectible games will no longer ever be available again. I hope this clears up everything and we'll be waiting for our email from Spooky to find out even more details and more surprises involving the games. And lastly, congratulations to the entire Webb family on their extra balls, or I should say their new son, Billy the Fifth. Great work, family, and good luck with the new bub. Catch you next time. Hey, this is Kaz, your special and lit American Pinball correspondent. It's a big week for American Pinball as Pinball Expo 2019 is in Chicago. They will have team members involved in seminars and have a booth at the show. The big question is, will we see gang number three revealed? I do have confirmation that Joe Balcer is still working for American Pinball, and that Joe and the team are hard at work on the new title. Hope to see everyone at Expo, and hope you guys have a great week. For American Pinball, this is Brian Kosner. This is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack Pinball update. Last week's Willy Wonka code update to version 1.25 introduced bug fixes, new modes, and changes that make the game easier out of the box. Another change that is sure to make Wonka owners happy is the addition of new callouts and speech, including Wonka himself telling you it's a whole day wasted when you lose your last ball. Dialed In is now at version 1.73. It's a long-awaited update which owners say have fixed several screen performance issues and glitches. There also continues to be reports of pooling and chipping of the clear coat on pirates in Wonka. Several pinsiders have attempted fixes, including pressing or melting of the clear. Jersey Jack has responded and said not to pull up posts to look for damage underneath and to hang tight for now. Some owners have apparently been offered populated playfields, but the extent of this fix remains to be seen. For Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast, this is your Jersey Jack update with Ken Rudberg. Rumor, intrigue, personnel news, and the 35th annual Chicago Pinball Expo. Just another busy week in the world of stern pinball. Hey guys, Craig here, your new special when lit stern news correspondent. Well, as most pinball companies are just still trying to get their first or second title to market this year, rumors are everywhere on the internet as pinheads try and speculate what the next stern titles will be toward the end of this year or early 2020. Now, after already producing five titles in 2019 and a major reskin and art package on Star Wars with artist Randy Martinez, the rumor mill is churning again about Stern's not one, but two upcoming titles. Now, we know that one of the strongest rumors is, of course, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that will be Stern's next cornerstone title. Although I will stress that nothing has been confirmed by Stern that TMNT will be their next cornerstone title for 2019. But in the meantime, new rumors are flying about yet another Stern title announcement before the end of this year. Rumored to be another licensed theme from the 80s, some say Stranger Things, others are saying James Bond, Godzilla, and also the Karate Kid, believe it or not, has been bantered about. And so the question remains, what will be the next upcoming titles from Stern? And could there be an official announcement at Expo in Chicago this coming weekend? We shall wait and see. Now, in other Stern news, Stern has quietly hired a new director of quality assurance by the name of Andrew Mills. Now, according to the announcement on the Stern website, Stern added Andrew to help identify, analyze, and develop improvements in the supply chain and manufacturing quality of our pinball machines to support Stern Pinball's continued growth. Now one can only assume that Stern made this move in an effort to shore up some quality control concerns, most notably with some playfield and production issues that have been very well documented and discussed on various websites and podcasts and have also plagued other manufacturers in the industry as well this year. So it would appear that Stern is certainly taking some steps internally to address some of these concerns and ensure that things continue to roll out smoothly. So lots going on here in the world of Stern and I look forward to reporting more in the coming weeks. Thanks, guys, and I'll see you on the flip side. So there's our fab four, Dr. John, Brian Kosner. We've got Ken and Craig. So thanks, guys, for the industry updates. Well, we'll just kind of touch a little bit on these now. Remember, I think it was maybe a couple months ago, I do remember Spooky Pinball talking about this fang club. And I remember at the time, I'm like, you know, good for Charlie, good for Chuck over at Spooky. Get that money, right? It makes no sense why you should hold yourself back. You've got a lot of different companies that are offering inside information. Stern Pinball has their Stern Insider program. And we look at the two things. You've got the $35 entry level at Spooky that gives you some bonus content and some artwork and some other things. But then it's like, boom, $525. It's like, there you go, $525. You can get your game. You can preorder it like two weeks earlier than everybody else. You get some extra play field sculpts. And we're going to go ahead and we're going to bling out your armor. And, I mean, to me, the $525 was a little bit of sticker shock when I first heard it. Because, like, man, that's pretty huge. But when you think about how the game actually will be a better option, right, because you are getting some specifics that you're not going to get on if you were to regularly order. And this is kind of like a way to introduce a new tier of pinball at Spooky without introducing like a pro premium in L.E. model. Now you can go ahead for 525. You get these upgrades. Now, arguably, it might be a better bang for your buck than other opportunities that you can get from other pinball companies when you start going up in levels. Because you figure to go ahead and kind of bling out all the armor and the machine, including the hinges and whatnot, I mean, that's going to be a couple hundred bucks at least to do that. And the way that Spooky does things, I can see that being a $200 to $300 option. And if you've got extra sculpts on the playfield, I think that's actually pretty cool, right? Because now you're getting something that's on the field, the playfield that's going to be different than if you were to get the stock model. Of course, being able to jump the line and getting your game early, I think for some people they would pay $500 just to do that. So to be able to get a little bit extra in the machine, I think is cool. Now, will the $525 play nicely with people that are looking to get those things? I would say yes. You look at the butter cabs that they offer. It's like, what, an extra $1,000 for those butter cabs? And that's pretty excessive, right? But people pay for that because it's something that's exclusive to that pinball machine. And they appreciate those getting the extra clear. So the jury's out on that 525 for the blood sucker, the blood sucker edition. Now, is that not the most appropriately named Ellie or not Ellie, but upgraded model that you can go ahead and ask for when you're charging 525? Yes, but it seems to me that you're getting value there. So good job, Chuck. Get the money. I mean, why not? Who cares? American Pinball, we hear Balser's still in at American Pinball. He didn't go anywhere. So there was some speculation this week that was on another podcast that Joe Balcer had left American Pinball. He's still there, and he's working, and he's working on game number three. Now will game number three be revealed at Expo No I don think so I don think it be teased We do have Dan coming in who a sales and marketing guy over at American Pinball He going to be on that epic Expo tailgate stream that happening Wednesday night So if anybody has any questions, you can certainly come in and you can ask Dan in chat or you can call into the show. And I can talk a little bit more about that later. Ken Rudberg coming on and covering Jersey Jack Pinball is talking about code updates, clear code issues. Now, he reported that he said that some people were getting populated playfields. Now, I don't know if that I have not heard about populated playfields being sent out. I do remember that the playfields that were being offered as replacement for clear code issues on Wonka, they initially had charged for blank playfields that were not populated. And then I do know that later in time, they decided to refund those that had purchased the blank playfields and they gave those playfields for free. But I guess Ken's hearing that there's been some populated playfields that have been distributed. So I'd be curious to get a little bit more information about that. Stern Pinball, welcome, Craig, right? So he comes in and, boom, right out of the gate, he's talking about speculating the next title. Teenage Ninja Turtles, Karate Kid, will it be announced at Expo? There's no way Stern announces anything at Expo, right? I mean, you've got Scared Stiff. Scared Stiff. See, I'm still missing Scared Stiff. I owned Scared Stiff. I don't have it anymore. I'm waiting for this next installment here of Elvira. It's House of Horrors. I look at the game and I'm like, yeah, it looks decent, but it's just not scared stiff. I'm still hung up on scared stiff. So we'll have to wait and see how that machine shoots. But there's no way that Stern brings Elvira's House of Horrors into Expo only to tease or reveal another game. It doesn't make any sense. And you also have to remember that you are going to see that new Star Wars comic edition there at Expo. And it's going to be a pretty big showing from Stern. So absolutely no way that you're going to see another title revealed. But it's fun to think about. You've got a new hire over there for quality assurance, clear coat. Well, not clear coat. I guess quality control would be clear coat issues. You've got somebody in there that's going to be in charge of quality control or a new hire for quality control. So it looks to me that Stern Pinball is making the efforts to try to figure out any issues before they go out the door. Every company should do that. It's going to be impossible for all that to be found out before it leaves. I mean, stuff's going to slip through the cracks, but I don't think it hurts to have extra quality control. Interestingly enough, too, like you've not heard anything in regards to the play field clear coat issues. I guess what the problem was with the clear coat and what the solution was. And I'm not even really sure that anybody has said, hey, we figured it out and it's fixed. It's just kind of business as usual with Jersey Jack pinball and Stern pinball. So I can only assume that they believe that it's figured out. It doesn't make sense to keep pumping out product that you know could come back defective. And I can only imagine how much it costs to be sending out populated playfields to those that have that. So maybe we dig a little deeper and see if there was a problem that was identified in the solution that's being ironed out for the clear coat pooling, chipping, et cetera, et cetera. As far as speculating of the next theme, right, so you've heard Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Karate Kid recently came up. I will say this. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I don't know if it was just me. So I was born in 1975, so I'm 44 years old. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was kind of like caught on just a couple years after I think I would have been into it heavy because I know my younger brother, who's a couple years, well, four or five years younger than me, kind of got into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. As far as the theme goes, man, that's not one that calls to me. I don't really care if we see a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or not. Now, if we do, and it's fun to shoot, and it's got a nice art package, you know, great. Happy to play it. Is it something that I'm like, I'm dying for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? I'm just not. And speaking of pinball machine themes that I'm not dying to break the door down to unbox, Karate Kid would be up there, too. where I remember like Karate Kid was a good movie. I remember seeing it back in the day. I mean, that had to be 30, 35 years ago. Ralph Macchio and Elizabeth Shue, Sweep the Leg, Cobra Kai. I am not seeing that. So Daniel Russo, I don't see the appeal to Karate Kid as a pinball machine. And again, I might be in the minority. Maybe I put a poll up on that. Do you want to see Karate Kid? But in all honesty, I haven't heard anything Karate Kid. So I just think that that was just kind of a rumor that gained some legs somewhere. and I don't see that coming to fruition, but it's not to say that I know either way. I could absolutely be wrong. So let's talk about this real quick. Online connectivity, it's something that we talked about on Special Winlet a few months ago when there was like a general buzz going on with, hey, these machines are going to be going online soon. And when George Gomez came in and he kind of talked a little bit about online connectivity when he was here talking about Star Wars The Pin, and he said that the Spike 2 systems that are currently in the machines, they're already capable of online connectivity. So it's not like you have to have another board set come in there to figure that out. It seems to me that it would be something that could be enabled with a software update, and then you may or may not need a peripheral to kind of get that connecting online. A couple things that I would like to say real quick about online connectivity is, I mean, obviously we're looking for code updates. It would be nice to be able to have that kind of updated machine wirelessly. But what other things can you do with online connectivity? I think one of the coolest things that you could do, and I think it has to go, again, head-to-head play. Two things I wanted to talk about with that. One, and listen, I'm not going to go on and on five minutes about online play or connectivity, but I'm going to take a couple quick minutes. Online leaderboards, I think, are huge. Get yourself in a lobby where you enter against ten other people that have the same machine all set on the same settings, and you post your score. and then these people that are also joining will play at their leisure. And when all 10 scores are complete and it might take a couple hours, it might take 10 minutes, it might take two days. But in that specific lobby of 10 people, you will see how you ranked and how you fared in that lobby. That's real similar to what Golden Tee does online. You jump in there with 20 other people from all over the world and you are just waiting for them to finish their rounds to see how you scored. Now, with the use of an app, and I think that, I mean, Stern Pinball is going to have to have an app that will show you what lobbies you've entered, what contests you've entered, where you finished, how you finished. And you could even start kind of a ranking system. You could do online tournaments. That's where I think it's fun. If you can get the community involved. Now, there's ways that you could cheat the system. I totally get that. But if you could set up even your own little, say you're on Pinside, and you've got a group of 10 guys that are in the, let's say, the Willy Wonka Club. actually, let's just stick with Stern Pinball right now because we're talking about Stern Pinball. Let's say you've got 10 guys that are in the Jurassic Park Club, and all those machines are online. You're like, hey, go to the app, give me your name, I'll enter it into the app, we'll start this tournament, and we'll just play together against each other. Now, I'm playing my game at 1 o'clock in the afternoon, but my buddy Tom doesn't get home until 7 o'clock that night, so he jumps on, he plays at 7 o'clock at night. We've got a couple guys that are lazy, they don't even play their round or their game until the next morning. But over the course of like three days, the 10 of us have completed our game that we uploaded and we know what our standings are. So that kind of finished our little mini tournament. I think that's fun. That's a great way to kind of implement scoring, be able to set up your own kind of lobbies and clubs for these pins. Now, the other thing that I would like to see, which I think is a lot more intensive or it would be a little bit more effort would have to go into this, is direct head-to-head play. And I think with the use of the LCD screen and hear me out in this. We can use Jurassic Park as an example. You step up to a Jurassic Park and I'm able to link with, say, Bill Webb's house. Bill's got a Jurassic Park at his house. Now we are both live at the same moment. So I plunge my first ball and there's a camera that is mounted somewhere in the speaker panel, similar to what you would see on Jersey Jack Pinball when they take pictures, that camera's mounted in the speaker panel. That camera is showing me playing the pin or you could have that pointed down and Bill can be watching my round, my turn on his LCD screen in real time. And it's almost like he's watching a stream of me play my ball on his LCD. And during the time that we're doing this, there's a microphone so that we can talk back and forth and we can have a conversation. And it's almost like we're there. Now, when my turn is over, my camera shuts down and activates Bill's camera, where now I'm watching Bill play his turn. and again it's like i'm watching a stream of bill playing his turn now with the microphones live we've got voice over ip or whatever so we're both able to talk back and forth while we're literally playing and you could actually set up pretty cool tournaments on location so so you know say for bars you got somebody that's playing at uh logan arcade in chicago and uh you know you just you're doing a tournament live against somebody else uh another bar or another pinball location uh somewhere in the world and people are just kind of altering turns and you're seeing what's going on live at that bar and and that and they're seeing what's going on live at your location i think that would add a whole nother realm or a whole nother level of fun with on with online connectivity the other thing and we've heard this discussed too for people that are just legitimately looking to stream i don't think it would be out of the question to maybe offer uh streaming kits for these pinball machines that are a little bit more easy to utilize, where you're not putting a couple thousand dollars into a portable rig. You're not trying to put in $1,500 into something that's a little bit more stationary. Maybe it's something that's some plug-and-play kit, or at least that you can hook up your equipment, your streaming equipment, too easily. Does it make sense to the masses? No, but I think as more and more people are now looking to stream pinball, and it seems like I'm getting in on these things way late. It's like when we started the special Wendley Pinball podcast, it was like when there were already like a million podcasts and now there's a million more since we started. And then when we started getting into streaming, it was, it was really kicking into high gear. So it's like, we're always, you know, we're with the pace here, but we're, we're not ahead of the pace. And, uh, and it's, and it's fun what we're doing, but it's like, man, like, what can we do? That's a little bit different and, uh, thinking outside of the box. So we've been working on that. But anyways, I digress. I think if you're able to utilize online connectivity for interaction, whether it be virtual pinball rooms where you're doing leaderboards and score checks, or if you could just physically play somebody and be able to have a camera set up for facial recognition and for the play field, I think that would be so, so fun. So we'll see how it goes. And, you know, maybe it maybe it furthers pinball and increases its exposure, which has been another hot topic lately that we'll get to a little bit down the road in the show. Now, typically right now, I would transition into a little drain it or save it and drain it or save it. It's a segment where we bring up three topics and myself and Bill will talk about those topics and see if we agree with the topic. We would save it. And if we disagree with the topic, we would drain it. But Bill's not here. So I'm going to be playing drain it or save it by myself. Ken, you ready to play Drain It or Save It? Let's do it, Ken. It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. Drain It or Save It is brought to you by Lermods.com, offering you custom quality playfield mods and lighting for your pinball machine. L-E-R-M-O-D-S. Visit Lermods.com today. So the first item up on Lermods.com's sponsor, Drain It or Save It, is this. And this is funny that I'm doing this by myself. playing pinball while out of town drain it or save it now what i mean by that when you go out on vacation is it wise to go out and look for places to play pinball because you're usually playing pinball either at your house or at your home locations so if you go on vacation is it taboo to look for pinball locations and i'm gonna say that i'm gonna save this i do like the idea of being able to to jump out on vacation and find pinball machines and playing pinball machines i mean what's the harm in it there's no harm in it now if you go out and you abandon your family because you looking for something to do pinball related that could be kind of bad But as far as like getting especially those that like going on location and playing pinball I not a big location pinball guy It's just the way that I am. I prefer to play in a home environment. But if you're a big location pinball, I mean, why not? Why would you not want to venture out and see more location pinball? I think that's something that's pretty cool. Secondly, barcades will be just as popular as they are now in 10 years. So do I think that barcades, and for those of you that might not know what the barcade is, the barcade is the retrocade where you've got all the old school arcade games, Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Galaga, Mortal Kombat, NBA Jam, and even pinball. But it kind of correlates all that into a bar atmosphere. So now you can go ahead and grab some drinks and you can play your favorite games. It's been wildly popular in the expansion of barcades over the last several years. it seems like every week or two I'm learning of something new that's opening up but do I think that it'll keep its traction or keep its popularity a decade from now in all honesty I would hope that it would because that means that the hobby is thriving whether it be pinball or arcades and I come from the arcade side of things that's what got me into pinball originally so I can see both sides of it but realistically speaking I'm going to drain this I just don't see the barcade lasting through the decade at least being as strong as it is now. I don't see it thriving as much. Will there be some that survive? Absolutely. But will a majority of them? I don't know. It'd be hard. Now, have there been barcades that have gone a decade? Absolutely. I'm just saying that I don't see it as thriving as it is now, which, you know, some people will find unfortunate, as I would too, and I hope that I'm wrong on that one. Because if barcades aren't thriving, that probably means that the hobby itself is not thriving either. Lastly, undrain it or save it. Pinball Cribs. Do we drain Pinball Cribs or not? Now, who caught episode number one and episode number two of Pinball Cribs from the creative mind of Zach Menny? Now, for those of you, everybody knows Zach. I don't need to introduce Zach. Co-host Twip. Co-host right down the middle of Pinball Show. And owner of Flip N Out Pinball. I guess I just did introduce him. So he launches this Pinball Cribs thing. And I'm going to save it. I think it was a real fun parody of MTV Cribs. and I'm glad that he put forth the effort. He did it fairly quickly in terms of recording, editing, and posting and I appreciated it. So I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to save Pinball Cribs. If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend checking it out. So Drain It or Save It brought to you by Lermonts.com. First, playing pinball while out of town? Yeah, I'm going to save that. Barcades will be just as popular as they are now, 10 years from now. I'm going to drain that. And Pinball Cribs from the creative mind of Zach Menny, I'm going to go ahead and save it. Sponsored by Lermonts.com. I just I want to take a quick second to and talk about the reaction that came from pinball cribs. Now, we kind of now, guys, listen, I'm totally biased here, right? Because we debuted the episode on flipping out streaming network and myself and Bill Webb and Steve Beatty. We stream on the channel. So Zach's a personal friend of ours. He's also the guy that that provides us with these machines to stream on his channel. and uh yeah i mean so i just being totally clear here so that being said you could say that i'm biased i will say this though if there's anything that was gonna be released that i thought was in poor taste or that was just not up to par i would have politely asked zach to kind of reveal that on his own and not allow myself uh or bill or steve to kind of play a role in rolling that out Now, in Bill's and Steve's credit, they did not see this Pinball Cribs. And Pinball Cribs, essentially what Zach is doing is he's going into collectors' homes. He's showcasing the home, the lifestyle a little bit, but he's having some fun with it. He's getting a little bit boisterous, and he's kind of making it like a big parody of MTV The Cribs. If you remember MTV Cribs, they'd get like a couple superstar celebrities, and the Cribs crew would come in. they'd walk through the house and the celebrities would like, they take you into the refrigerator. You'd see the crystal. They take you in into this room and they'd show you some crazy thing that you didn't even know that you could buy. And it was just, it was them boasting and gloating and having some fun and, and just talking it up. And that's what was going on with this pinball cribs. So when I saw the episode, I got to prescreen it. It was the Chris Haper episode. Now, for those of you that don't remember or aren't familiar with Chris Haper, Chris Haper used to be the co-host of the Slap Save Pinball podcast. And that was Jason Fowler is now doing that show with Matt Kanin. But back in the day when it came out, it was Chris and it was Jason. And Chris Haper, he was always the more vocal of the two, or I would say more opinionated in a more dominant sort of way, like in an unfiltered kind of way. And that's when he kind of coined that phrase for himself for that segment called Brickshot. And Brickshot was just a way for him to sound off on something that totally pissed him off that week or didn't agree with. It was completely entertaining. So when I'm watching episode one and it's featuring Chris Haper and Chris is kind of playing up, having an attitude, he's having fun with the show, right? That's kind of where it was going. So he totally came across as somebody that was pompous and gloating and somebody that if you didn't know better or you didn't know he was joking around, I could see it becoming irritating thinking, who the heck is this guy? he's got some cheese nips shooting out of the center of a poker table. I mean, what makes him such a big shot? But I know Chris, and Zach knows Chris, and I think a lot of people, or at least we kind of assume most people would know who Chris was. And if you didn't, we thought that you would at least get the parody of MTV Cribs. And I remember when I was talking to Zach and I watched the episode, the pre-screening, and I hope, Zach, you don't mind that I'm sharing some private conversations. I remember saying that, hey, Zach, MTV Cribs, if that's what you're going for, dude, you nailed it. I mean, that is MTV Cribs pinball edition, hence pinball Cribs, the name of the title. I said, I think it's going to be real popular. And Zach's like, well, I know that we're going to get some blowback on this. And he said, and I'm ready for it. I just hope that it's received well. And I was like, Zach, it's going to be received well. Don't worry about it. You're going to get critics on anything that you do. because regardless of what you try to put out there, if you have a big enough following, and Zach's got a big following of people, you're not going to make all the people happy all the time. Even with our podcast, we get a couple thousand people that listen to our show every single week. We don't go ahead. We know that we're not going to appease all those people. It's just not going to happen. And it's disappointing when we don't appease the people because when I get feedback, I always take it to heart. And it's hard not to take it to heart. As long as the feedback is constructive, I get it. but sometimes people just kind of set out to be mean and it used to really bother me, but it doesn't bother me as much anymore, but I still take that stuff to heart. So when he was concerned about having some feedback issues, I was thinking to myself, now you're overthinking it. You're going to get the occasional disagreement or the occasional guy that's going out of his way to be a jerk, but no big deal. Airs the thing on flipping out. We watched it live. Bill and Steve are with me. Watch this thing live. And again, if you haven't watched it, you can go to flipping out pinballs, YouTube channel. You can check out the episode. The episode's got, I don't know, three or four thousand views on that episode on YouTube already. And I was like, wow. So everybody watched it and we were in chat and I'm like that over went over pretty well. Now, the next morning rolls around and is starting to realize that, hey, this is catching on as far as comments. People have a lot to say and it's there's a little bit more a little bit more issue being taken with this than he had originally anticipated. Totally blew my mind on some of the comments that I heard. And this is what surprised me. And I'm going to be honest, because, again, it's my podcast. And I think the biggest critique that this particular show gets, especially with pinball podcast, is that one, like we're too soft in regards to being critical of the manufacturers. And I think the speculation is and some people have directly said this as well. you're friends with too many people in the industry. So you're not going to go out of your way to talk poorly about something because they're your friends and you don't want to let down your friends. Okay. And then the second thing is, well, you guys are too nice to guys and you guys don't really want to tell the truth because if you told the truth, then you guys wouldn't come across as nice guys. Okay. So it's like one, yes, we have a lot of friends in the industry. so I would never go out of my way to just decimate one of my friends I wouldn't do it would I support something that I didn't agree with no would I support the individual behind it yes so where I will not go out of my way to just crush somebody that I'm friends with or even crush somebody I'm not friends with I can still be honest in a professional way in the way that I kind of roll things out. And then secondly, as far as being too nice to guys, yeah, do I consider myself a nice guy? I do consider myself a nice guy, but I don't consider myself a nice guy because I lie about everything. I don't. So I'll be honest here, right? I was really surprised and a little bit taken aback by the vocal minority in the pinball, in the pinball scene. And I saw comments It's like this pinball cribs sets pinball back. As we try to expand pinball, this is the kind of thing that it's not good for. Somebody said something to the fact where I'm going to leave the hobby after watching this video. It's in such poor taste. I mean, and there was just comments that rolled in like this, and I had to sit back and kind of watch this with a smile, not because I'm sure Zach's pulling his hair out because, you know, he puts effort into this. And again, he knows he's not going to appease everybody. But for some of the comments were so over the top and I was I could not wrap my head around where people were coming. Because these are the same people that seem that they want honesty in the hobby and and they and and I get it. But it's like, what is it about a video that you would see on YouTube that would be so appalling that would make you leave pinball? Let me ask you, think about this right now. if you're listening to this podcast, right, it's because you're into pinball. It's because you're a collector. It's because you like to buy and sell and flip and make some profit. It's because you're just an enthusiast. Maybe you don't even have a pinball machine. Maybe you like to watch streams. Maybe you like to watch content being provided by different people that are offering pinball content. What could you possibly watch that somebody created that would make you want to leave pinball? And I thought about that. I'm like, what would offend me so horribly that would make me walk away from pinball? And with the exception of some like over the top, ridiculous conspiracy theory stuff, there's nothing that like if I found out that the whole pinball scene was driving money for like some sex slave thing in another country. And that's right. Yeah, that would make me be like, whoa, I'm out. I'm out of pinball. Like I'm going to take a break, but I'll tell you, you know, it's not going to make me leave pinball. is, oh, somebody did a parody of MTV Cribs and made a pinball Cribs, and the guy was acting a little bit boisterous. Oh, I'm out of hobby. I'm out of here. Where do I – I got to leave. Sell my machines. It's like, come on, man. Like, I don't get it. And then why people go out of their way just to be purposely hurtful. And I noticed, like, one person says something, and then there's, like, this little bandwagon approach where everybody gangs up. And, you know, I hope I'm not, like, pouring gas on this fire, but it just really disappointed me that people were – and I don't want to say weak. Because it's not about being strong or weak. You can absolutely have an opinion. But some of the things that were being said were like so absurd that it made me smile and laugh a little bit And then it made me think this It like I in this pinball thing just because I having fun and I doing more work in pinball now because I enjoy it I'm an enthusiast, right? So any content that I put up there is because I like doing it. This podcast, I like doing the podcast. I like talking to people about pinball. I like knowing that I met people that I typically would not have met otherwise. I think that's a really cool thing. But then I'm thinking, do I want to meet some of these people in pinball? And it's like, no, I don't. I can't do it. It's like I do not see myself associating with somebody that decides that they have to leave pinball because they were so appalled about content that was being provided. And they think that pinball was brought. It's just such a strange, strange thing to me. So, you know, I'm not going to go ahead and delete everybody off my pinball Facebook page and start fresh with my friends. But I'm going to ask you this. I mean, if you're one of those guys that went out there and you feel like you have to leave the hobby because of a YouTube video that was uploaded, maybe maybe you do need to leave a hobby. It's like it's why why would you need to voice that or why do you feel that way? If something like that's going to offend you, then yet potentially you're in the wrong hobby. Now, do we want to see anybody leave pinball? No, we don't. But I don't know, maybe get a little bit of thick skin, you know, and what will happen to which I think is hilarious is inevitably because this is what happens sometimes with the podcast. And I'll just go back where somebody is like, you know what, you just you never you're never hard on anything. You're never like overly opinionated. You guys kind of dance around back and forth on your issues. You're always on the fence like you're never strong one way or the other. and then, you know, like, hey, fair enough. What can I say? It's just kind of like our personalities and how we do this. But then, like, I'll get strongly opinionated on something and I'll go off a little bit. And it's happened a few episodes where I just went off and I just bitched about something, right? Just, boom, lay it all out there. Hey, this is my podcast. This is how I feel. Throw it out here. This is it. And then I'll get messages. It's like, well, maybe you should relax. I don't know why something bothered you like that. I mean, if that's how you have to act on your podcast, Maybe you need a second-guess your podcast. And I'm thinking, second-guess my podcast? It's like I was told that I'm not opinionated enough on something, but then I go off on something, and I'm too opinionated, and I'm hurt by something. So maybe I should quit podcasting. So I think what will happen is on this little mini rant on the pinball cribs, probably get some people wondering why it means so much to me and why I'm trying to pioneer this. And this is the other thing I've heard come up lately, right? I've heard this question being asked, man, I'm all over the place. See, without Bill Webb being in here to keep me grounded and on point, I just kind of fly off the handle. So it's kind of like I'm just having a conversation with myself and we'll see how this plays out. Again, not going to edit this. So this could be the worst episode of Special Winley Pinball Podcast. You never know. Vote us for the Twippies. But and I lost track of thought. Oh, OK. So this is what I was thinking. I've heard recently people asking, why is it necessary for us to increase the exposure of pinball why we don't need to we don't need to do that we don't need to increase this exposure it's a nice niche kind of tight community as it is we don't we don't need exposure it's not what we're looking for like okay there's two ways to look at that you keep the hobby closed and you keep it within the circle of trust here that's currently in the hobby and you can certainly do that and And there's ways that you could kind of keep this as close to the chest as possible. But I would ask, why would you not want to increase pinball and its exposure? Now, does everybody have to pioneer and put 20 hours a week into something outside of their normal job and families and try to throw content out there and throw enough stuff at the wall and see what sticks? No, but why would you not think it's a good idea to kind of further along the hobby in the scene? because the more people that actually come in and buy these games will relate in more people being able to be employed in pinball because the popularity is there. I would imagine it's going to lead to more companies staying around or new companies coming up and being able to thrive. I just don't see the harm in trying to put content out there. And where you might not be a fan of all the content out there, and maybe you're thinking, well, that content that you uploaded, how does that further along the hobby? How does that do anything? How does it increase the exposure? Especially those that see something uploaded and they're like, well, now I'm out of pinball. It's like it's just very, very strange. I don't see how it hurts unless you put something up that is so distasteful and not politically correct. I don't see how something is going to just crush the hobby. I don't see why you wouldn't want to further the hobby. I don't see why you wouldn't want to expand pinball or further its exposure. And I think what a lot of people are doing with content is just that. Just knowing that maybe you can't build a machine from scratch, right? Maybe you can't make awesome pinball mods for pinball machines. Maybe you can't do any of that. But maybe you can kind of sit down and record something on how to install something. Or maybe you can record a parody of a TV show. Maybe you can sit down on a microphone and talk about your thoughts in regards to pinball and upload a podcast. Maybe you do a blog or something like that. That's great. I mean, all that stuff is out there. You throw enough things out there, something's going to stick. And as cliche as it sounds, if one or two or three people find something over the next week that appeals to them and they start getting interested in pinball, who's not to say that they get a friend or two that's in the pinball and it kind of trickles down. And now you've kind of got the expansion of pinball. So anyways, just a couple quick thoughts there on how all of that went down. Now, finally, we're going to close this thing up. Expo coverage. Wednesday night, join us on Flip N Out Pinball stream. You can go to twitch.tv slash Flip N Out Pinball. And Wednesday night at six o'clock, we've got that epic Expo tailgate stream. Huge guest list. You can go ahead online. You can see the guest list there. we will not be playing pinball that evening on stream. This is not typical stream. You're going to be able to talk with industry folks, whether it be content providers or industry employees. We've got employees coming in from all the manufacturers. It's going to be a fun night. We've got some unannounced guests because I did not get confirmations. I got maybes or probabilities, and I did not want to put those people on there. I didn't want them to feel obligated or committed, and I didn't want them to feel as if they let anybody down. That being said, the guest list that's up there right now is a partial list, and that's all confirmed. So that's fun. Come join us. It'll go for five hours. It's good times. If you get the expo, meet the media is running. Chat with a bunch of media people, content providers. Shake their hands. Tell them what they're doing right. Or fist bump them and tell them what you'd like to see improved on. No problems there at all. That's going to be 3 p.m. to 8 p.m. Thursday, Fridays, and Saturdays. So that's going to be good times. Hey, special one lit. Guess what? We got brand new T-shirts. And they're like this ocean heathered blue kind of background for the Brian Holderman Antiqui artwork. So if you're looking for one of those, I'll have a, I'll have a hundred of them at expo. They're 25 bucks. Pick them up at expo. And if you want me to ship one to you, um, let me know. We have sizes, uh, all the way from small to four XL. So if you're a bigger guy and you need a nice pinball shirt, we got you covered. No big deal. Uh, and I'll have the Brian Holderman translates up there. I've been talking about this cherry atomic. We've got, uh, extra loose translates limited that are signed and numbered by Brian and the regular ones. If you need one, let me know. Finally, what will we do at Expo in regards to content? So this is what I'm thinking. When we went to TPF, we're like, hey, Bill, we're recording every day. Now Bill's schedule is going to be real touch and go. Again, he's got that baby at home. So I'm not sure what he's going to be doing as far as his commitment to Expo. That being said, Brian Cosner, who's our correspondent for American Pinball, he's going to be up there with me. And I've got Steve Beattie, who comes along on all of our pinball adventures. They'll be up there with me. We'll be manning that table. And what I think I'm going to try to do is I'm going to upload episodes. I'd like to upload, how about this, not episodes, because I don't think it's fair to call kind of like a daily diary from Expo an episode. We'll do an Expo recap episode when everything's said and done. But I think that Thursday, Friday, Saturday, we'll get some short nuggets that I'll upload. And this is the thing, I'm sure we're going to be talking to a lot of people, and I'll have recording gear there, but I'm not going there to podcast. I'm going there to kind of just experience Expo. That being said, I'll be uploading content probably when I get back in the room and we'll upload those every single morning and see how that goes. And in closing, so my buddy and our friend, Jeff Patterson, right? And his buddy and our buddy, Will Otting, they started Silver Ball Swag. They've heard about it on all the podcasts. Go to Silver Ball, let me start that over. I'm not going to edit it out because this is unedited today. Go to silverballswag.com, and this is it. It's all pinball stuff from hoodies to T-shirts, everything. Now, the cool thing is this. If you have a design or if you have a T-shirt design, you're like, man, this would look really cool on a T-shirt. You can actually go to the website. You can upload your graphic, get these things printed, and then have them shipped to your house. You can do a minimum order of one if you want. If you've got a buddy that's got a saying that drives you nuts in pinball or you think is really cool, If I wanted to be like, hey, Bill, here's your It's Not a Liver or a Kidney t-shirt. I could go to Silver Ball Swag. I can design that thing, upload the graphic, and I can have a shirt sent to his house in like seven to ten days. So it's really cool. It also proceeds are helping the This Week in Pinball and what Jeff's doing over there. And for those of you that are pinball people, This Week in Pinball is the go-to source for news. Jeff's a good guy, so support that. You know, and for those of you that are fans of Coin-Op Carnival, and it was created by Ryan Claytor, who used to do our segments, our correspondent segments for Multimorphic and Nicholas Baldridge, they collaborated and they did that media. The last stop on their tour is actually Pinball Expo 2019. So I know for a fact that Ryan is going to be up there, and that'll be the last stop on the tour. So if you want to get in on that and you want to talk to him about that. I'm not sure if Nick's going to be there or not. I hope he is. I've never met Ryan. So I'm looking forward to kind of sitting down with Ryan and being like, hey, man, thanks for all the help with the corresponding over there at Multimorphic. And nice to meet you. So go check those guys out at Expo. Again, at least I know Ryan's there. I'm not sure if Nick's there or not. And I wanted to give a shout out to our newest patron who is helping to support the show at Patreon.com. And that is Andrew. Andrew, welcome award, buddy. It's awesome. Good to have. If you want to help support the show, if you want to do a small monthly donation, you can go to Patreon.com and then type in Special Windley Pinball Podcast. in the search engine. Find us. Fast little growing community there. We've got a nice little Discord channel set up. We've got some tiers set up for some different bonus swag items and contests and prizes and that sort of thing. Just as a special thank you for those that want to go a little bit above and beyond in supporting the show. So that's always fun. And if you want to contact us, you can do so at Facebook, Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. You can also contact us by email. The shortest email in pinball podcasting, and that is specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com. Can barely get that out, but it's there. Good times. Bill's running the Instagram, Special Winlet Pinball. And you can find us on the Flip N Out Pinball Streaming Network every single week, streaming the new games from Zach Benny. So I think that's going to be it. Normally I would have a little banter back and forth, a little Bill's Corner. He's not here. So we wish the Webb household happy times and happy sleep. I guess their sleep is a little upside down, as expected with the new one. For myself and not Bill Webb, he would normally say good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. And I would say, hey, don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody. So I literally waited for the outro music to end, and I just wanted to say thanks again for sticking around on this. A little long-winded episode for me. I'm not used to talking that long by myself in a recording studio looking at a computer screen, but all in all, I hope it wasn't horrible. Thanks again, guys.