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The Pinball Show Ep 28: The Quest For Den Den's Infinity Stones (Can A Pinball Ever Be Upside Down?)

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 32m·analyzed·Sep 7, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Stern's Avengers Infinity Quest dominates discussion as major 2020 release with Keith Elwin design.

Summary

The Pinball Show Episode 28 features extensive coverage of major 2020 Stern Pinball announcements, particularly the Avengers Infinity Quest designed by Keith Elwin with art by Zombie Yeti. The hosts discuss game mechanics, layout design philosophy, and production details while celebrating listener engagement through giveaways. Secondary coverage includes updates on Jersey Jack (Wonka/Dialed In), Deep Root (September reveal with 'Hammer Tested' playfields), Spooky/Haggis (Bunyip as new designer, Alice Cooper code update), and American Pinball (Hot Wheels IFPA challenge series).

Key Claims

  • Avengers Infinity Quest features a right ramp accessible from all three flippers, claimed by Stern as a first in pinball

    medium confidence · Zach reports Gary Stern claimed this feature in a Stern seminar; Dennis notes he didn't verify the claim independently

  • Bunyip (David Van Ness) is Spooky's next game designer, marking the return of an Australian designer to the scene since Star Wars or Dennis Lilley

    high confidence · Dr. John reports from official Spooky live video podcast announcement; credits Bunyip as animator since Rob Zombie project

  • Raymond Davidson worked on mode structure for Avengers Infinity Quest

    high confidence · Zach reports direct conversation with Raymond Davidson; credits him alongside Keith Elwin on rules and software

  • Deep Root will reveal their game in September with teased green fist (Ned character) and launch date 9/20 (BD unknown)

    medium confidence · Chris Chandler confirms September event attendance; interprets cryptic Facebook clues but acknowledges uncertainty about 'BD' meaning

  • The Pinball Show is now the most reviewed pinball podcast on iTunes

    high confidence · Zach announces achievement; notes mixed reviews but detailed listener engagement

  • Steve Ritchie designed both Superman and Spider-Man comic book/superhero pinball machines

    high confidence · Dennis corrects his earlier claim; listeners provided Superman and Spider-Man examples which Dennis acknowledges he overlooked

  • Jersey Jack factory move to Elk Grove Village, Illinois is complete with multiple playfield stacks visible

    high confidence · Ken Rodberg reports Facebook post showing factory views; references COVID-related slowdowns

  • Spooky will release an Alice Cooper code update featuring more room and weapon information

    high confidence · Dr. John cites official Spooky live video podcast announcement by Bug, Charlie, and Bunyip

Notable Quotes

  • “Stern Pinball snapped their marketing fingers Thanos-style with their second cornerstone title of 2020”

    Craig Bobby @ ~15:30 — Hyperbolic but enthusiastic framing of Avengers Infinity Quest announcement; sets tone for extremely positive reception

  • “Even Den Den himself will be hard-pressed to say something negative about this release”

    Craig Bobby @ ~18:00 — Acknowledges Dennis as skeptical voice in community; suggests AIQ overcomes typical critiques

  • “I like the idea that Elwynn seems to have as a philosophy of, I want you to be able to make progress to something no matter what shot you make”

    Zach Manny @ ~38:45 — Articulates Keith Elwin's core design philosophy in rules; contrasts with other designers

  • “I prefer Lyman Sheets' rules...Iron Maiden is a woodchopper, and that's not my favored style”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~33:50 — Dennis expresses minority position on Keith Elwin's rules design; sets up interest in Raymond Davidson's influence on AIQ

  • “The left ramp is actually kind of centralized. They're both very much kind of in the center. And then the right ramp is so fat because they made it accessible by three flippers”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~42:00 — Technical observation about uncommon ramp placement on Pro model; notes departure from typical layout conventions

  • “It's very bright, and I think a lot of people are going to be hard-pressed to accept the pro”

    Zach Manny @ ~43:00 — Early concern about Pro vs Premium/LE differentiation; hints at market reaction potential

  • “This is one of the most understated features of this design, in my opinion, and that is the shot through the pops”

    Zach Manny @ ~55:00 — Highlights subtle design element reflecting Elwin's recurring preference for pop orbit shots

  • “I've been talking and chatting with him over the week. And he is unbelievably thrilled about the work that everybody did”

Entities

Avengers Infinity QuestgameKeith ElwinpersonZombie YetipersonRaymond DavidsonpersonSpooky PinballcompanyBunyip / David Van Nessperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: The Pinball Show achieving top ranking status on TWIPDB and most-reviewed pinball podcast on iTunes; listener engagement via detailed review giveaways

    high · Zach: 'the pinball show now sits atop the TWIP Promoters Database...now the most reviewed pinball podcast on iTunes.' Multiple reviewer giveaways (TMNT banner, glass cover, Canadian goat) distributed to incentivize continued engagement.

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Raymond Davidson (elite competitive player) contributes mode structure to Avengers Infinity Quest; potential influence on multiplier/stacking strategies unclear

    medium · Zach conversation with Raymond Davidson reveals his excitement about mode structure work. Zach expresses hope Ray Day (nickname) won't over-emphasize multipliers/stacking, suggesting competitive meta awareness.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Dennis maintains minority skeptical position on Keith Elwin's rules design philosophy, preferring Lyman Sheets approach; concerns about repetitive gameplay paths on Iron Maiden vs Jurassic Park

    medium · Dennis: 'I prefer Lyman Sheets' rules...Iron Maiden is a woodchopper, and that's not my favored style.' Acknowledges Elwin popularity among competitive players but expresses personal reservations about shot variety and progression.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Elwin demonstrates recurring design preference: three-flipper accessible right ramp (claimed as pinball first) and flow-based playfield with pop captures feeding to flippers

    high · Gary Stern seminar remarks on banana ramp geometry allowing perfect access from all three flippers. Discussion of Elwin's preference for shot through pops, upper flipper usage (particularly left on AIQ vs right on Jurassic Park), combo-heavy rule progression.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.278

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:26
It's time for The Pinball Show. it's pinball with personality ladies and gentlemen this is the pinball show episode 28 and we are your hosts zach many and dennis creasel from the eclectic gamers podcast dennis how in the hell are you my friend i'm doing good oh we've almost made it to episode 30 and then we can end what why 30 it's a round number but not a popular one? I don't know. Dirty 30. If only we were popular, Zach. Speaking of popularity, we are a certified hit. Certified fresh by the tomato people. The critics have spoken, and we're a hit. So this last week, we did a giveaway to thank our viewers and listeners for tuning in each and every week. And I knew we'd get a decent response because people like free shit, right? But... Well, I didn't think we'd get that many, but it just shows what I know, which is not much. Well, you know what? We asked for support, and our beautiful, wonderful, loving listeners, they showed up, and they showed up big, baby. That's true. And what really impressed me was how many didn't just like write one sentence. Right. I was waiting for reviews that I just want to fucking buy in her. Yeah. Well, I mean, people don't – it can be annoying to go write reviews, especially detailed ones. Absolutely. So at this point, at this recording, the pinball show now sits atop the TWIPDB. The TWIP Promoters Database. We now sit atop. So thank you to all of the listeners that went in and reviewed our show.
2:14
It was very much appreciated. I loved reading all the feedback that people gave us. Oh, I'll have to catch. I've read them all through September 3rd, but I haven't gone recently. Man, we got another 20 or so after that. Okay. Well, I will read them because people took the time to write them. We updated the summary on there as well. That's true. I saw you send a note to Jeff and Will with This Week in Pinball. Yeah, so we got that. Not only that, ladies and gentlemen, we are now the most reviewed pinball podcast on iTunes.

Zach Manny @ ~34:00 — Direct personal contact with Raymond Davidson; emphasizes his enthusiasm for Avengers Infinity Quest contribution

Deep Root Pinball
company
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
American Pinballcompany
Zach Mannyperson
Dennis Creaselperson
The Pinball Showorganization
Gary Sternperson
Rick Nagleperson
Joshua Clayperson
This Week in Pinballorganization
Craig Bobbyperson
Ken Rodbergperson
Chris Chandlerperson
Dr. Johnperson
?

event_signal: Deep Root planning September reveal event with official announcement and game reveal; cryptic teaser campaign building anticipation

high · Chris Chandler confirms September event attendance; decodes teaser imagery: green fist (Ned villain character), 9/20 launch date, third of five teaser updates. 'BD' meaning still uncertain.

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Deep Root positioning playfield quality and 'Hammer Tested' durability as competitive differentiator against industry quality concerns (dimpling, cracking, pooling)

    medium · Chris Chandler: 'Deep Root plans on emphasizing playfield quality as a differentiator' via soliciting competitor/employee quotes acknowledging inevitable defects. Emphasis on WOOD (all caps) construction vs plastic/acrylic alternatives.

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack factory migration to Illinois from New Jersey complete with visible production scaling (multiple playfield stacks evident)

    high · Ken Rodberg reports Facebook post showing Elk Grove Village factory views with playfield stacks, parts storage, line production visible. Notes factory recovery from COVID-related slowdowns.

  • ?

    community_signal: Joshua Clay emerging as significant animator talent at Stern; Zach predicts major future role in pinball animation direction

    medium · Zach: 'wait until you see these animations, people, and you're going to start saying, maybe we have Josh push forward a lot of these animations.' Notable as lead animator credit alongside Chuck Ernst.

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Bunyip (David Van Ness) transitions from animator role to lead game designer position at Spooky Pinball

    high · Official announcement via Spooky live video podcast featuring Bug, Charlie, and Bunyip. Dr. John confirmation of Australian designer return to scene after significant absence.

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball officially announces Avengers Infinity Quest as 2020 cornerstone title with full design team, mechanics, and Pro/Premium/LE tier specifications

    high · Craig Bobby segment with detailed feature breakdown: Doctor Strange interactive disc, Avengers Tower magnetic lock, bingo grid, three-target drop bank, Thor captive ball, Hulk target, custom wireform ramps. Premium/LE additions: motorized disc to pop scoop, Thanos Gauntlet with RGB gems, Captain Marvel inverse gravity ramp, Pym vertical upkicker.

  • ?

    product_concern: Zach expresses concern that Avengers Infinity Quest Pro model's brightness may alienate players accustomed to Premium/LE aesthetic

    medium · Zach: 'It's very bright, and I think a lot of people are going to be hard-pressed to accept the pro.' Discussion of Pro vs Premium/LE tier differentiation following this statement.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Spooky Pinball releasing Alice Cooper code update with expanded room and weapon information; Rick and Morty production continuing through extended timeline

    high · Dr. John cites Spooky live video podcast announcement of Alice Cooper upgrade. Reference that Rick and Morty production won't complete for 'about another year and a half,' delaying Bunyip's next game reveal.

    • 2:47
    Japan. Interesting. Just interesting? That's it? Well, I haven't read those, like, at all. So maybe they're bad. I don't know. They're more mixed. I'm not going to lie. Well, mixed is fair. It's mixed. You want to do a fair review. Or at least I believe that. You know what? Side note. No. Some of those are just downright not fair at all. Well. Bullshit. I'm not judging them. I haven't read them. I'm judging them. Two stars. These people don't know what we want. they keep force feeding us all of these shows. We have separate RSS feeds. Dick, retract that review. Maybe he wrote it before they or she wrote it before we had the separate RSS feeds. I looked at the timestamps, damn it.
    3:29
    Maybe we need to better promote the separate RSS feeds. I'll think about putting another blast out. You know, our most popular separate RSS feed is Silverball Chronicles. Interesting. I'm not too surprised at that, actually. I'm not surprised at it, no. Because there are probably a good amount of people that aren't really interested in the current event stuff and like the it's our only history show so so it's like if you only want that why why not go through plus they do a pretty good job i think promoting their own rss feed my guess would be final round is the second one i i'll have to double check i think you're right though yeah because they're very specified types of shows there yeah that one's about rounds and being finalized and and hearing all their great sponsors and aussies there's that but there's also canadians you don't forget our northern brethren they just feel like one of us at this point no they don't speaking of canadians i believe uh joe c friend of the show is canadian isn't i think you're correct but yeah all the nationalities blend together in our eclectic pot of pinball people we are the world don't sing we got an email being so happy that you didn't sing on the last episode and it warmed my little heart i grew three sizes bigger that day josie friend of the show i want to offer a correction uh because i i was teasing and poking last episode and said something to the effect of josie i know you gave that one two-star review i see you out there uh i was incorrect it wasn't our buddy josie that did the two-star review saying they needed less many and more crazy. It was not him. To be fair, his review is a little mixed towards me. So it's easy to see how I blended them. But you are controversial. My full apologies to Josie because that was not correct. I have a correction as well. What? Actually, I had two people contact me. I was incorrect when I told you that Steve Ritchie had never done a comic book pinball machine. And they both said, what about Superman, Dennis? When I was listening back, I thought the same thing. I was like, how did Dennis miss Superman? Well, yeah, that's extra embarrassing because I owned it. So I don't know how I missed it. I did take comfort in that you are so ignorant of such things that you weren't ever going to catch me. You're in big trouble, though, pal. I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast. You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?
    5:58
    No. So there was that. I did during the evening. I would also say, though, you could also cite me for missing Spider-Man, though not everyone who wrote in agreed because they felt he did that off of the movie, and so that could still count as not a comic book. No, it's cop-out. It's – no. And, yeah, I was like, no, but it's based – I mean the movie is based on a comic book. So we said comic book, not superheroes, right? I don't remember. I don't either. I think I said – I think I said – I don't remember. But I would say Spider-Man and Superman both would be legitimate suggestions of Steve Ritchie's played in the comic realm. Okay. Or superhero realm. I'm fine with that. So I was wrong. So let it be known. Let it be written. Dennis was wrong. I hate your soundboard. I've decided. Why do you hate my soundboard? It's great. I think it will lead us down a dark path which will forever dominate our destiny. That was a movie reference. Look. But the whole movie reference is over here. I'm scripting. I'm running a show. I'm trying to produce. I've got a mixer here. I've got my audio levels. So what about the giveaway? You were given a banner. Oh, yeah, that's right. We are going to give away this banner right here, right now, randomly. Random.org. We're going to go to that, and we're going to give away a banner to a lucky reviewer. And people keep reviewing because I thought this. I thought it might be fun in the future to go back to this and maybe look to see without announcing a need to go review the show on there. Maybe we just take the reviews that are there and do a giveaway and don't give people a heads up. So continue to review. But until then, somebody is about to get a Turtles banner. Toodles. We need to figure out how to give an Avengers banner away here soon, too. Do you have those yet? Stay tuned. I do not have those yet, but they are on order. All right, ladies and gentlemen, the winner. of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Stern pinball banner is...
    7:55
    Who's it going to be? Is it going to be you? No, it's not you. It's Kevin Elliott. Congratulations, Kevin. Kevin submitted a very nice review, Dennis, and he did emails to say so. He also said, wow, you guys sure know how to get someone to do what you want. Well done. I've never submitted a review before, but geez, TMNT banner? Totally worth the time, and honestly, your show is freaking great. Love the deals of the week. Please bring back Dick of the Week. Congratulations. Thanks, Kevin. Are you jelly? Din-din? Did you want that banner? No, I told you on the last episode, I don't know where I'd put such a huge thing. That's what she said.
    8:38
    Oh, my God. That's why I love my show. Feel free to go back and pull a star from our review for that. That was a well-implemented, that's what she said. You'll still get your banner. You can do this. Oh, man. So, yeah. Congratulations for the banner. Probably reach out to me and give me your address and stuff like that so I can mail you flyers and six-by-eights and all that kind of stuff. And you know what? Look, let's get into the pinball. We got a lot of pinball news, but before we do that, damn it, I want to give away something else, Dennis.
    9:12
    Thank you very much, Miss Lippy. We had such a great response from all of you wonderful people that I am also going to give away out of these reviewers. Your second chance here, people. They've already tuned us off. But you're going to get a Stern Pinball brand new product. It's a glass cover for your pinball machine. It's really nice, rubber mat. Let's give away one of those to one of these reviewers since you guys did such a phenomenal job. Ladies and gentlemen, the winner of the dust cover is... Sean Ledgerwood. Congratulations, Sean, on the pinball glass cover. Congratulations to you as well. Whoop, whoop! Sean submitted a review on the TwipDB site. Left a five-star review. Thank you, my friend. And Dennis, he also said, he emailed us and said, As a Canadian listener, I'm hoping that you let a screaming goat draw the winner, as I'm starting to think that Dennis isn't a fan of Canadians. with his less than positive comments regarding Craig Bobby, David Dennis, and to a lesser extent, Jeff Teelis. I likely have a poor chance if Dennis is allowed to draw the winner. Winky willing to cover shipping if I win. Open up your wallet, Sean. I'm exhausted, and I didn't do anything. And last but not least, we'll also be giving away a free goat from Canada. Orby donated his goat? Yeah. Leia or Luke or whatever those are.
    10:37
    We're giving away. Not little Annie. I did a full confessional. I text Orby the other night. It's like 1 in the morning. I don't know. I was fired up. I don't know what I was doing, but I texted him. I might have had a few. I texted him and said, hey, buddy, hope all is well. next time you're around that goat leia go on and slap dead ass for me oh jesus i saw i seen that he'd seen it but he didn't reply to the next day it's time for tpn industry news Oh, snap! Thanos arrives in the Stern Pinball universe! Hey everyone, Craig here again, the pinball show's Stern News Correspondent. And just like that, the pinball world held its collective breath as Stern Pinball snapped their marketing fingers Thanos-style with their second cornerstone title of 2020. And no, it ain't Godzilla, and sorry, no Jaws either. Yes, hot on the heels of their extremely successful Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles launch, Stern doubles down on the always popular artist Zombie Yeti and pairs him once again with Pinball's God of Thunder designer Keith Elwin for what looks like another surefire winner in Marvel's Avengers Infinity Quest, Featuring more ramps and loops than a six-flag amusement park, this title is so jam-packed full of hardware and gorgeous zombie-itty art that you hardly know where to begin! Well, how about let's start with Three Flippers, an interactive Doctor Strange spinning kinetic sling ring disc with dual-direction velocity detection, a gravity-defying Avengers Tower magnetic lock ramp with gravitational vary target and magnetic hold, which captures pinballs in mid-air! Oh, and then there's the bingo grid, three-target drop bank, a Thor captive ball, a Hulk spinning target, and a custom metal wireform ramp. Then, on the premium LE version, you get the same interactive Doctor Strange motorized disc, but which now raises to a pop disc scoop, transporting pinballs into an underground portal, a visible subway capable of holding and staging up to three balls through custom playfield windows accentuated with dynamic RGB lighting effects. These models also include a custom-sculpted Thanos Infinity Gauntlet, integrated with atmospheric light-up gems, a Captain Marvel Inverse Gravity Custom Wireform Ramp, and a Pym Laboratories Vertical Upkicker. Not to mention, Zombie Yeti's gorgeous Marvel Avengers theme art literally covering every inch of the entire damn playfield. And on top of that, Stern made a second marketing move, announcing the official release of the game's topper, side blade art, infinity gem shooter knob, and various other game accessories on the same day of this release, finally putting it all together in what can only be described as a cavalcade of pinball awesomeness. Even Den Den himself will be hard-pressed to say something negative about this release, and fans screaming for more have certainly got their wish with this stern title. And yes, I'm saying this already, the Avengers Infinity Quest, or AIQ, will sure to be a very strong contender for a twippy game of the year. Could Elwynn's three-peat? We shall wait and see. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    14:52
    of the new Jersey Jack factory in Elk Grove Village, Illinois. I recommend checking it out for the views of the factory, including multiple shots of the lines, part storage, and stacks of Wonka playfields. It really shows how far the factory has come after the move from New Jersey and any COVID-related slowdowns. Jersey Jack also posted an ad for Dialed In and Boily Wonka on the Facebook page, which in itself is not so unusual. But this particular ad included the phrase, Oh, Won't You Please Take Me Home, another not-so-subtle reference to Guns N' Roses, which seems to put to rest any questions about which title is next. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rodberg with your Jersey Jack Update.
    15:35
    Chris Chandler here, breaking out of my news coma to bring you the latest about Deep Root. We heard via this week in Pinball's July Twip Talk that Deep Root will finally reveal their wares in September. While I'm not at liberty to discuss specifics just yet, I can confirm that I will be at an event at the Deep Root headquarters sometime in September. More details will be shared as we get closer to that date. Deep Root's marketing machine cranked up with a couple of interesting tidbits shared via their Facebook page. First, that cryptic message of stone and a partially completed set of numbers and letters has evolved. It now shows a green hand punching through that stone, and the text 9, a couple of spaces, 20, B.D. I'm pretty confident the green fist belongs to Ned, the villain from Ra's al-Hussein, and the 920 part refers to their launch date. Is BD before Deeproot? Given this is the third of five anticipated updates, we should know for sure pretty soon. The other interesting bit is that hashtag Hammer Time has evolved into the trademarked Hammer Tested. While many anticipated Robert's hammer-proof playfields would be covered in plastic or acrylic or something like that, Deep Root made a point to emphasize their playfields are WOOD in all caps. In classic Deep Root style, they're soliciting the general public to send them quotes from competitors, employees, forum members, and other playfield quality apologists that say dimpling, cracking, pooling, etc. are just simply unavoidable. It's clear that Deep Root plans on emphasizing playfield quality as a differentiator. This should get interesting as we get closer to launch. With your Deep Root update for the Pinball Show, this is Chris Chandler.
    17:19
    And we're back with a SHIT, that's Spooky Haggis Industry Talk update, from Dr. John on the Pinball Show. Been a little quiet in pinball, but suddenly everyone is announcing everything. So from the Haggis side, still waiting for quarantine restrictions to lift, But from the spooky side, they had their first ever spooky live video podcast this month, featuring Bug, Charlie and David Van Ness, who's more commonly known as Bunyip. As people may or might not know, Bunyip's been with the company since Rob Zombie as their chief animator for the Dot Matrix displays. They had some very interesting things to say on the podcast, including there's going to be another Alice Cooper upgrade soon to the code featuring more information about rooms and weapons availability to help you get through the monsters quicker. And I'm looking forward to that, so I don't have to keep referring to the map. The main thing they announced, however, was that Bunyip is the next spooky game designer. This is big news as it allows an Australian to be back in the pinball design scene. That hasn't happened for a while, not since Star Wars or Dennis Lilley's How's That? And for those who think they have, no, that other Australian game was designed by a well-known pinball designer who would rather not put his name to it. So, I'm going to be chatting to David over the coming weeks just to find out a little bit about his preferences in game design. but of course we won't know that title for about another year and a half when the production run of Rick and Morty is complete. Well that's the news for this week. An exciting week in pinball news. Catch you all next week. Bye.
    19:09
    Hey this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. American Pinball and Hot Wheels have teamed up with the IFPA for the Hot Wheels IFPA live streaming challenge series. It's going to be weekly challenges and also a high score challenge. It lasts until the end of the year. Check out ifpapinball.com for all the details. Also, there's a new code update for Hot Wheels. It is version 20.09.01, so get that on your Hot Wheels. Also, check out American Pinball's website for Labor Day sale. They have a lot of deals on some merchandise and additional items. Hope everybody has a great week playing pinball. For American Pinball, this is Brian Costner. Well, you know, Zach, what I say, it's always great to hear from the correspondents. Though, I have to admit, Craig, Bobby, I might have to have an intervention about the hazards of cocaine. Oh, it did sound like he was a bit jacked up there. A little bit of the excitement flowing through the blood. Maybe that's why he was hiding in the woods. He was building a treehouse. I thought he was picking mushrooms. In the forests of Sweden.
    20:17
    Shirtless with braided blonde hair. clothing choices are in the nordic lands are up to the visitor yeah he was hyped up but who isn't for the new stern pinball announced avengers infinity quest no one to my knowledge i've only heard positive things thus far there's got to be some negatives in there but oh i i found some but oh of course but your prediction last week was i think this will be a game of the year three-peat by Keith Elwin. And I stand by that. I would too now if I were you. If you were me, you would have stood by it before you even saw it. But we're not judging.
    21:02
    Are we not? I am, but we are not. We know that the game was designed by Keith Elwin. Rules also designed the structure by Keith Elwin. Artwork by Zombie Yeti. Lead programmer, always Keith Elwin's right-hand man, Rick Nagle. rules and software work was actually also done by our friend Raymond Davidson. Yes, I'm interested in that. One of my personal things is while I really like Keith Elwin's layouts, I actually don't put him at the top of the list for rules.
    21:37
    So I want to see what – I think they're good, but I prefer Lyman Sheets' rules. So I want to see what Raymond maybe was able to influence and bring to the table Because for me, I thought Elwin improved his rule set for Jurassic Park versus Iron Maiden. For me, Iron Maiden is a woodchopper, and that's not my favored style. I don't think that's fair. It probably isn't, but that's kind of my take. I think there's a brilliance to what Keith Elwin has brought to the rules of pinball machines. There are tasks, if you will, and there's almost a map that you can draw out, and you don't have to take the same path every single time. But there is a groove that you get into within that said map that Keith Elwin creates, and you end up kind of – I played the same way on Jurassic Park and Iron Maiden. So I kind of see where you're coming from. Yeah, but that's true for – almost everyone gives you multiple paths now, and people still end up kind of doing just the one thing. So I don't see a uniqueness there. I like the idea that Elwynn seems to have as a philosophy of, I want you to be able to make progress to something no matter what shot you make. I like that. But like in Iron Maiden, there were limits to even. Eventually, shooting the left ramp isn't worth anything. Regardless, I'm always curious for the new. So I want to see if I can see Raymond's influence. When I play this will I be able to go and say oh this has to be a Raymond thing This is so different from what Keith would do I wondering if there anything to that degree in there or if it going to be much more limited like this is sort of Raymond first game His rules influence might not be as apparent. I don't know. We'll have to see. Maybe he'll say in some interviews, so then I won't have to figure it out. I'll just know. Very true. I like that Keith Elwin makes you shoot every part of that pinball machine. Yeah, no, it's, and again, everyone has their own preferences. A lot of competitive players that I know in the area, They love his rules. So I think I'm in the minority on it. It's just – but that's just sort of my stance. I was a bit distracted here, Dennis. My wife just walked in in a bathing suit asking me how it looks, and pretty phenomenal.
    23:48
    I'm going to go with pretty phenomenal. Okay. Is it too skimpy? Where are you going to wear that? No, it looks really good. But you can stay in here and give me something to look at if you want.
    24:06
    Okay. She didn't want to stay in here. I'm really excited for our friend Raymond Davidson. I've been talking and chatting with him over the week. And he is unbelievably thrilled about the work that everybody did on the team there for Avengers Infinity Quest. And I think he's excited to finally start showing what he's been working on over at Stern Pinball. He did tell me, Dennis. Ray Day, sorry if I won't be able to say anything. He did tell me that he worked a lot on the structure of the modes. Oh. Well, I love modes, so this is great. Modes are my favorite. What do we call that? Internal modes work? Inner mode?
    24:44
    Within mode? Mode depth? Mode depth. I like it. Yeah, because we don't overuse the term depth in pinball ever. Depth versus breadth. I wonder if the modes will pop. Oh, Ray Day. Give me some moments, baby. Ray Day to the rescue. Ray Day, he's not going to let me down. But he is kind of the number one pinball player on the planet right now, so I hope he doesn't focus too much on multipliers and stacking. People love multipliers. Yeah, if they're two or three times, then we're good. Sound was done. I'm a little confused. Sound was, I think. Jerry was the lead sound engineer. Ken Hale did the music.
    25:29
    Have we verified that? I just don't know. That's what I saw listed on the deep dive on this week in pinball. Okay. So I assume Jeff verified it. I didn't know that those two work together on titles. I thought it was usually one or the other. Maybe it's a first. Maybe it was just like Jerry oversaw the sound effects and such, and Ken handled putting the score together. Okay, possibly. And then also the animation. We'll talk about animation here in a minute. the animation director was Chuck Ernst, our friend, as well as my buddy Joshua Clay. You're going to hear a lot of that name in the coming years. Joshua Clay was on lead animations here, and I don't think he's getting any discussion here. But wait until you see these animations, people, and you're going to start saying, maybe we have Josh push forward a lot of these animations. Are the animations marvelous?
    26:22
    Oh, nice. Nice. That felt bad, though, right? When you said it? Yeah, it did. Okay. Even by your standards, I thought. Yes, even by my standards. Not really a creasal thing to say, but okay. No, it's not.
    26:34
    I'm trying to move us on. We've got so much to cover. We'll cover it all. What were your first impressions when you seen the reveal of this game? It's very bright, and I think a lot of people are going to be hard-pressed to accept the pro. Okay. Interesting. We'll talk about production and stuff like that and if you're right. But I agree. The Premium LE seems like you get a lot more than you get on the Pro. My first impression was look at the art and look at the wire forms. Oh, yes, wire forms for days. And people like metal in pinball. They love it. They like to hear the shh as the ball goes on it. So that was my first impressions as well. Does anything, when you first look at the game, does anything throw you off that you're like, or, or?
    27:23
    I don't know if I'd say thrown off per se. I thought that the ramp placements, and speaking specifically about the Pro, where you have the two main ramp entrances, not counting that magnet, very target thing, are interesting. They're not in the usual placing. The left ramp is actually kind of centralized. They're both very much kind of in the center. And then the right ramp is so fat because they made it accessible by three flippers, which is different. That's the first time in pinball. Did you know that? I know they claim that. Uh-oh. I will be doing my fact checking. I probably will not be. I'm just saying. I didn't verify that that was true. I just saw that they said it was. Well, Gary Stern told us that that was a first in pinball. Damn it. Okay. Well, I don't know of another one. Any idea what we were in the seminar? God, I love those seminars. No, I don't know anything about the seminar. Do they give you bagels? No, they don't give us bagels. Okay, well. I bet Gare Bear eats a bagel before he goes on, probably a poppy seed. But no, they do the seminars, and it's so fun and so cool because they show us all the stuff that everybody sees in the promo videos and stuff. But they'll show other things that aren't announced yet, like some of the animation, or he'll go through some of the rules. And he was talking about this ramp. He talks at length about some of the features of each of these titles. And he said this is angled that way. It looks bowed in the middle.
    28:52
    It's an interesting shape. And he said that is because design-wise and geometry-wise, that is so that it can hit perfectly from all three flippers. I thought that was really, really smart. Well, yes, because it not hitting perfectly from all three flippers means at least one flipper felt pretty clunky. Yeah, or two. And we know what people think of the clunk. I like clunk so bad. There's a movie reference for you.
    29:23
    Yes. You don't even know it. See? It reminds me of Goonies. It is Goonies. Well, then you can shut the f*** up. I went with chunk, clunk. At least mine tied together better. Yeah, but so the curves get it up that ramp a lot more. rather than... Did you know what Gary Stern called that in the seminar? That ramp?
    29:46
    The right ramp? Mm-hmm. That's what I'm saying. He called it the right ramp. Nope, he called it the banana ramp. Because it kind of looks like a more plantain, really, but plantain ramp doesn't have the same... I wish it was yellow. Then it would really look like a banana. I think we've got enough yellow in this game. I disagree. We saw far more red on Deadpool than we do yellow on this. So that was our first impression. So when it comes to the layout, how do you think this thing is going to shoot? My first thought will be well. Flowy. Sure. Elwin's games by and large seem to be pretty flow-based. Very combo-based. He once again has a pop-up post to allow a ball capture to feed to a flipper, which seems to be something he's fond of. He likes that. So he's got some stop and go where he thinks it makes sense. And I'm fine with that. He doesn't like scoops, so we don't see any scoops here. I mean, this isn't going to be a speed fest. The wire forms everywhere. These are not going to – we're not going to have – it's not going to be like a Steve Ritchie Star Trek with plastic ramps with efficient returns to the flippers. This seems to be not like Oktoberfest showy where you're waiting five minutes to get your ball back, but clearly designed to let you watch the ball go on a little journey and give you a break. It looks very flowy. I love, love – I can't – This is one of the most understated features of this design, in my opinion, and that is the shot through the pops. And for those of you listeners who want to see what we're talking about, you can go online, Stern Pinballs, Facebook. They'll show all the pictures, Marvel, Twip. Everybody's got some pictures. But through the pops in a little orbit, kind of like Deadpool.
    31:30
    Mm-hmm. And that's another thing that Elwin has shown. He seems to like to have a shot through the pops. Mm-hmm. I don't know. The return, I guess, is just the orbit then. I think so. Well, then how does the ball... Where does the left orbit take the ball? Does it take it to the right orbit? Because I know the right orbit kind of serves as onto the ramp. I don't know. I don't either. Could it take it back through the pops the other way?
    31:56
    Ah. Because that looks like that would feed to the right flipper. So there's some really unique, unique shots. a lot of upper flipper usage on Keith Elwin games. On the left this time. Mm-hmm. He's going Tron this time. Now, he wanted to go left on Jurassic, so he gets to do that here. Now, some of the key mechanisms and features of this game. Let's go over that. I think primarily when we're talking about the Pro, if we're sticking with what's on every model, the Pro Premium LE, we have this big tower, the Avengers Tower. That's on all of them. Yes. And it's a magnet ball-grabbing tower mechanism that virtually locks balls.
    32:41
    Yes. And it's also supposed to have, like, a very target function? When I heard that, I didn't understand the very target component to it. I didn't see it in any of the little video trailer clips. But, I mean, the way that would be is the ramp would have a mechanism or some capability. I'm assuming with Optos. if that's using the accurate description, to measure if you only partially get it up.
    33:08
    Because that's what, you know, normally a very target is trying to register just how far back you knocked the target. So you could achieve that virtually with optos and know, oh, okay, you made it two-thirds up, so you get two-thirds. One-third up, more of a soft reboot. But I'm not sure how that's being implemented, maybe in a mode, because as you noted, it also functions as a ball lock. But my understanding is you light the lock by your lower lane, your in-lane, out-lane spelling for iron. Spelling iron, yes. Yeah, spell iron, and then you shoot that shot. So there'd be no point for a vary for that. Yeah, I think it might be. But that might tell me that it's not always a sure shot to get up to the top. Well, it does seem pretty steep. So I could see that. But it's either a make it or you don't, I would assume, for ball locking purposes. I could see value having a way to use it like a very target for something else, like a mode. Yeah. On Iron Maiden, they had a captive ball very target thing. Remember that? But I don't know what was the varied part of that. It was how hard you hit that captive ball. It could determine the strength of the hit. I didn't remember how that one worked. It didn't have the target. What was it? Was it an opto setup as well? I thought it was something to deal with how hard you hit that. I don't know. Because, I mean, I've seen, like, if you go back to Gottlieb, Buck Rogers, for example, has a captive ball. And then there is an actual very target behind it. And it made it extremely hard to hit the very target back. Oh, like the second ball pushes that very target? Yeah, the first ball hits the second ball and the second ball pushes the very target. Exactly. Okay. So I can see that.
    34:47
    Maybe, so I'm not sure. Ghostbusters kind of had a very target thing on the pro. Remember, you hit it right back up the right ramp, and if you hit the first switch, it determines that or the second or the third before it comes back. Can we call that a very ramp?
    35:01
    I mean, I wouldn't because it's sort of like you clear one switch and you might clear another switch. But normally with the very, there are multiple stages in a linear fashion. I think that was just to give you partial credit. I don't remember how they scored with it. I mean, the last very, very Target I remember with Stern was Ripley's.
    35:25
    Do we have to talk about Ripley? We don't. All models, Pro Premium and LE, have a drop Target bank with a, I guess we'll call it a bingo board, tic-tac-toe board. Yeah, a grid of sorts. A grid. Kind of a throwback that feels very throwback-ish.
    35:43
    Yeah, I mean, when I saw it, actually, what it reminded me of is the grid on Total Nuclear Annihilation. Mm-hmm. I could definitely see that. So you get a grid there. It looks like mystery rewards that you can line up, bonuses, clearing locks. Yeah, and it looks like there was a, what happens depends on whether you get the drops down or you get the drops down in order. Yes. It looks like the same position as the Walking Dead drops, which are some of my favorite drops in pinball, so I like it. Now, one of the things the Pro has, Dennis and listeners, that the Premium doesn't is the Captain Marvel shot is significantly different. On the Pro, you get a nice little mini-orbit loop around through a spinner back into the right orbit. Whereas on the Premium LE, you get a whole new ramp. And a ramp we have not seen before. That's right. And it inverts the ball. So the ball goes upside down and then feeds onto wire form. Can a ball ever go upside down? Sure. It is a sphere.
    36:45
    Yes. I think I just got you. No. I think I just got you. I don't think a ball can ever go upside down. I was just trying to understand what the hell you were saying. The ball has numerous sides. How many sides are on a ball?
    37:00
    Infinite? I got it. Well, you did take biology, so. A ball can never be up nor down. Sorry. I know right now you're just fuming.
    37:18
    puts the ball upside down. I can't ever be upside down. I'll turn this damn bus around. That'll end your precious little field trip pretty damn quick, huh? But it exits at a weird place. Have you seen where it exits? Nobody's talking about that. It exits right by the flipper, closer to the flipper than your typical in-lane drop. Are you Googling whether there's sides to a ball now? No, no, no. I was scrolling up looking at another play field thing instead. I took physics in college, you know, so. Yeah, I know. I mean, but that's been done before. A Sharky shootout did that. I know people. It's just, it's interesting that it ends up there on a stirring machine. I like it because it means if you shoot that Captain Marvel shot, you can't easily just start collecting your iron switch rollovers. It deprives you of that. That's the value in it. That's very smart. Just to not let you exploit a ramp to be able to get switch hits. Or get an additional one-up over the pro. I mean, you could argue that allowed it, that it would make the premium LE significantly easier to start Ironman multiball. That's right. That is a great observation. I haven't heard anybody say that yet. It's because no one's talked about this. Well, and then we have our Thor captive ball shot, the same on all of them. Now, on the Pro, that right, even further right than a right orbit, is more a stand-up target. I've been comparing it to the Seashot on the left side of Jurassic Park. Yeah, I think that's a good comparison. The Pim Lab stand-up. Mm-hmm, the Pim Lab stand-up, where on the Premium LE, you go up in there, and it is more saucer scoop-ish, and it's Spider-Man, and Star Trek, Vuck kicks it onto the wire form. Yep.
    39:14
    One of the biggest features of the Premium LE, damn, this thing is loaded, is a subway. Yeah. Who would have thought you'd see another one of those from Stern?
    39:24
    This subway is nice because it can stage balls within it, and it has fully controlled RGB inside the subway system. So visually, it is going to be a spectacle. A visual spectacle. Zack calls Marvel's Avengers Infinity Quest. I'm just bemused that you still find color-changing RGB impressive. When presented properly, it can be a moment. So, yeah, anything that contributes to pinball moments, I'm your man. Pinball moments, yes, yes. Yeah, a lot of people have been using that. World Under Glass, yeah. Knocked it out of the park. World Under Glass, I didn't start that one. But we also get, I think, a tribute to two of my favorite 90s Bally Williams games, in Circus Voltaire and Tales of the Arabian Nights, Dennis.
    40:16
    Yep, that's true. The Spinning Disc. Are we done with spinning discs? We're getting a lot of spinning discs in pinball.
    40:25
    They can be fun. So I think it's okay to see them for a little while. Okay. Just don't make it a habit. Yes. This spinning disc is not motorized. So it is. It's like the lamp on Toe Dam. Yes. It's got one peg instead of two, but you can hit it both left and both right. But whenever a lock is enabled by hitting it enough times to light strange, it lifts up out of the play field, very much like the Ringmaster in Circus Voltaire, and you lock balls into that subway via that entrance. Yes. Oh.
    41:01
    And I guess that lock function is virtual on the Pro. I love the location of that spinning thing because it looks like it can get in the way if positioned properly so that you can't get through those pops. very much like Tales of the Arabian Nights.
    41:19
    See that? Yeah, and that's kind of consistent with how the Jeep would block you sometimes on Jurassic Park. Through the pump. I think we're starting to see the Elwynn traits. Elwynnisms. Yeah. He's also, I've noticed, you already mentioned it with the Thor captive ball. He's a fan of captive ball. I'm not. Yeah, you don't seem like someone who likes the ball captive. There are some captive balls that I love, but my love-hate is very dichotomous when it comes to a captive ball. And this one, honestly, I don't think it's going to really wow anybody. I think when you hear the sound effect when it gets hit, the Thor, I'm sure it's going to be a Thor hammer crack sound. I think you're going to like the audio that goes with it. And it'll feel more moment-y once you hear that. One of my favorite accessories for a pinball machine is a shaker motor. and there is no better effect than coating a shaker motor with a captive ball hit because you feel like you actually just hit something hard. Right. We cannot understate this post. That post that sticks up to catch the ball, when you lock a ball, Gary Stern in the seminar said the ball will fall back down, post will catch it, then you can start your different quests for those infinity stones. And for those that haven't looked, this post is positioned to feed to the upper flipper. Correct. Thank you. Once you hit it up that tower or even in that direction, that post can come up, capture your ball for that upper flipper stage. But it will direct you to the LCD screen and say, hey, in certain times, hey, you're about to start this. Kind of like the post did in Iron Maiden. Yeah. It also kind of, you know, to compare to a non-L1, it kind of reminded me of the upper capture that you would see on Star Wars. And choosing your missions there. Yes, yes, yes, yes. A lot of cool features in this game. What else are we missing here? I think that's all the main stuff. Whew.
    43:16
    It's just there are some repeatable shots that we see in this promo video, Dennis, that make me think this thing is going to be like a circus juggling act. You can continually put these balls into motion, but if you lose track of one, they're going to come tumbling down on you very fast. Tumble Tumble. Do you like that analogy? No, I'm indifferent to it. Look at me. I can juggle two poles, no problem. It doesn't count as juggling with two. You need three or more. Can you name that in my machine? I'm assuming Circus Voltaire, but... Do you like center ramps? Yeah. I mean, I don't really think of it as a like or a dislike. It's ramps are ramps to me. I don't think this is dead centered in terms of its feed out so I don't think it's going to be a oh I didn't get up the center ramp it's guaranteed straight down the middle death we've seen side ramps that do that so where the ramp where the ramp is you can set it up so your ramp screws you down the middle no basically no matter what so I where it is I mean I'd be more concerned if this was like a center spinner okay like a monster bash um center ramps for me are hit and miss. You think of things like Aerosmith or Kiss by Stern Pinball, Center Ramps, those look like they're located a bit further back, but it's sometimes at a weird place on the flipper. Sure, but if everything was on the same spots of the flipper all the time, the games would all be the same. I like a full force, smooth feeling shot on my ramps typically.
    44:56
    But looking at this, I don't see how this ramp is necessarily difficult. It doesn't look overly narrow or anything. No. It doesn't look like a hard shot. That's true. Like the little helicarrier magnet lock looks like a tighter shot than this to me. Now, compared to the right ramp, I get it, but that's because that one's a banana or a plantain. I think that you were talking about that tower shot. I think that that is going to be a really smooth shot. It might be tight, but that is on that flipper, geometry-wise, that's the shot. That's going to feel good. Yeah. Well, I mean, if they want it to be like a very target, then a very target should feel great when you hit it. Yeah, you've got to have a lot of power to make it very easy. Ideally, to get it all the way back. Or it's too easy. That 180 ramp, that helix ramp where the ball goes upside down, I hope that's smooth. Yeah, I mean, I think it has to be or it's not going to work. Well, it works on Jurassic Park, but it's not smooth on Jurassic Park. Look, when Keith Elwin did a Jurassic Park 180, I don't care what anybody says. I'll argue until I'm blue in the face. That is not a smooth shot. It's got clunk in it. Whereas if you compared it to the 180 ramp on Borg's Monsters, that's a smooth shot. You can still be flowy and not be smooth but I think this one might be smooth Let see All right a lot of flow on this a lot of mechanisms on this Artwork
    46:26
    It's decent. Your stance is going to be it's decent. Zombie Yeti's art packages all look to be about the same quality to me, so. What does that mean? It means that I, like if you were to say, is this his greatest art package ever? I would say no. Oh. They're all about the same. I don't think he outdid himself. I think it's what I expect from him.
    46:50
    That's not bad or good. It's just he's a good artist. I think this will be very well received. But I think if you were to poll people, you're going to find a fairly even split across all the games he's worked on in terms of which is the best art package. I look at this and I don't say, holy crap, this like Ghostbusters is garbage now. I just don't see that. If we're looking at the play field art, we'll focus on the play field art right now. Yeah, and that's what I'm focusing on. If I'm talking about the play field art, I'm trying to think of a – it's a strong take, people. Sit down. I'm trying to think of an art package on the play field by Jeremy Packer, a.k.a. Zombie Yeti, that looks better than this. This may, in fact, people, be my favorite art package on the play field that Yeti's done.
    47:38
    Yeah. Left Dennis Creasel speechless. Well, no, I could see people looking at this and going it's the best thing he ever did.
    47:48
    I'd say it's probably his most colorful. But the other games, by and large, weren't designed to be that. Like Deadpool really emphasized the red because of Deadpool's outfit and kind of the comic strip feel. And you would expect most traditional comic book things like Avengers to be this diverse color palette. But that being said – Ghostbusters is pretty colorful on the play field. It is. But I think they're mostly darker colors. I'd have to go back and look. The one thing – I mean if I were to rate on art, I really liked Deadpool's art, for example. I'd say for me, I like this more than Deadpool's art. But like the quality of the art that was done on Iron Maiden, I don't know necessarily that I would say this is better than that with the sand and everything. which was also extremely colorful.
    48:39
    But again, to me, they're all just kind of the same quality. Good. So it doesn't stand out to me compared to his other work. This is the style of art Stern needs to do because art helps sell games. And I just don't see anyone who's going to be able to complain about this. I like the, we're looking at the play field art, the color choices, the areas of the play field. mid-play field we've got the villains in space so we get a lot of blues a lot of oranges down at the bottom we have those traditional crayola crown colors your traditional primary colors showing uh showing the the heroes down at the bottom then you get a little strange up top i love the strange what are those it's not like a pentagram but all of the all of the dr strange components really pop in the art here and then the greens look at that right orbit you get the green right orbit for black panther and then similarly a left orbit with the same type of green for hulk makes total symmetry sense there for me but i think one of my favorite features of this play field art is actually captain marvel the positioning of where she's at on that shot the colors right there on that light blue, and then the subway pinks it. Nope.
    50:01
    But Deadpool has the big Deadpool, Dennis. That's the most dynamic thing on a play field that I've seen in quite some time, that big centralized Deadpool figure. I love that. We don't have that here, but we get better artwork down where the heroes are at. This makes the Deadpool villains. I don't like the looks of some of those Deadpool villains, like that T-Rex. It doesn't look good. this looks fantastic I think this is my favorite playfield art but I'll never forget about that Deadpool figure I want something big and grand on a playfield favorite Yeti playfield or favorite playfield favorite Yeti playfield I have to go back and look at all the other ones I want a centralized thing I could see it I might pick it as mine it's so close for me I really like the Ghostbusters playfield if Yeti didn't put Grimace or Thanos so predominant on the rest of the art package, I wouldn't have minded the heroes down bottom and then a big Thanos similar to the positioning and the composition of Deadpool. I don't need some of those other characters there because I've already got a cavalcade of characters down by the flippers. I wanted something bigger right in the middle if I had to pick. This man can draw Captain America as proficient as he reinvigorated those turtles on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Captain America is the jam. We're looking at the cabinet art and stuff like that. On the pro, we've got all of the, basically all the heroes, all the superheroes there. But on the premium LE, we're focusing like you called out, you predicted, a Thanos-heavy premium LE. yeah i noticed that it looks like the trans light and cabinet art is identical for the premium and le the trans light is it is the um they look the same to me both with thanos yes they yeah you're right i thought you're talking about cabinet yeah the the trans light so the le you're still going to get the mirrored screen printed back glass well i think the imagery uh premium and The LE on the cabinet is the same, but some of the colors were swapped. Correct. And personally, I think the LE looks the best. With a lot of the red background rather than a deep blue. Yeah, and with the fact that the yellow powder coat goes well with it. I think it's the overall, I think it's the best art package, personally. But boy, that pro. Man, that looks good with the three main Captain America, Iron Man, and Hulk. Yeah, it looks good. I mean, it's well drawn. Of course it is. It's Yeti. It's just, I don't know, it seems like No matter who the artist is The pro is always the montage of characters And maybe I'm just getting a little fatigued from that Yeah Guardians of the Galaxy, yeah there's a lot of them But I think it kind of depends on who you want If you want to see heroes, then the pro art is going to probably Be the most appealing to you But if you keep calling him Grimace If you want to see Thanos Then you've got premium in LE And I just think with the reds And the yellow, I just think that the LE looks best I think so. I think so as well. Whew, man. This is a stunning art package. Does this win Art of the Year over TMNT?
    53:22
    Ooh, I don't know. For me, I like it better, but, I mean, come on. TMNT is good. So, I don't know. That's tough. That's true. There's no way I can predict how the public will react to that. That might actually end up just coming down if you actually are more of an Avengers fan or a Turtles fan, quite frankly. And this is more recent, so it's going to get the recency effect there. Sure, but by the time, like, Twippy voting rolls around, this is going to be months in the past. Old news. That's right. It's going to be guns and roses. You cannot beat the head decal artwork on that, Ellie.
    54:02
    I hope somebody tries to beat that. That I was talking about on stream. that is color and composition perfection right there you're not going to beat it good luck trying other artists out there what i don't appreciate as much is that yeti oftentimes does the same you were talking about the same artwork but even like the head even the sides of the game they're a mirrored right so you you get thanos on both sides the same you get the head decals. You get Captain America on both sides, which doesn't make... It's the same. But it's symmetry. I like symmetry. Don't get me wrong. But I like when there's different art on the different sides of the cabinets. I get it, but I think it's a total waste of time. I don't think that makes a lick of difference on selling a game.
    54:57
    On selling a game? Yeah, sure. Well, that's the point. This is commercial art. This isn't fine art. I want my Ellies to look different than the premiums.
    55:06
    Is that too much to ask? No. That surprised me. That's why, other than swapping some blues for reds, normally don't they have completely different side art and translights for all three? Yes, but Yeti has been known in the past to share premium Ellie translight. I think he's... Well, I like all three to be totally different. I just think it makes it more interesting I'm going oh gosh and that's only from a fun discussion standpoint of people like oh I really I sure wish I could have the premium play field but I want the powder coat from the LE and the side cab artwork but the trans light on the pro is the best and then you have to decide so many decisions how do I decide and I'm sitting there like it's the gameplay You're like, who cares? I don't play the art. The last thing about aesthetics, and then we'll move on. Oh, thank God.
    56:06
    What do you think about the yellow on the LE? I already said I liked it. The yellow on the LE features a metallic yellow that we have not, I don't think we've seen from Stern before. No, they've got the leftovers from Yellow Brick Road Edition. And I like it. I think it looks good. I think it works for a comic book theme. It's my favorite. I hate it. No.
    56:32
    You do not. I do not hate it. I have an L.A. on the way. Yellow is not my first choice when powder coating the trim on a pitmull machine. Well, I think in most pitmull machines it wouldn't work. Yeah, it's probably close to my last. That and black just doesn't do much for me. But I have seen a metallic, like the Yellow Brick Road. is pretty stunning in person.
    56:58
    And Keith Elwin did show on social media some of the shimmering of that metallic flake in this powder coat. So, I'm good with it. Would I have picked a different color? Maybe. But that's easy for me to say on the sidelines. The animation. Have you seen any of the animation? I was telling people before I was supposed to that I like that it went to this two-dimensional, almost feels, Dennis, like it was pulled from the comic book. and onto the LCD screen. Instead of this Stern team trying to generate and render 3D animations again, which I'm not a huge fan of, they go tried and true and say, we're going to make this feel like a comic book. No, I haven't seen enough of the animation to comment on it. I think people are really going to like it. I think it looks a lot better than Turtles animation. Just a personal preference thing. That is not a fact-based thing. Just my preference. and I love assets, so I wouldn't, even if it didn't fit the damn comic book theme, give me the movie clips in there. That's just my preference, but this is a pretty close second. So to those that did the animations on this, super, super bravo. All right, production, release, pricing. What do we know about this game? Price is up $100 across the board. How do you feel about that? When was the last price increase? I don't remember. I believe it was January 1st. Wow. Okay. That's a little aggressive. Prior to that, I believe it was two years plus. Well, I don't care about prior to that. It's a pattern.
    58:35
    At this point, I expect CERN to do annual price increases. So I'm at that stage. Okay. I think they've recognized that it's not business-wise. They would rather incrementally increase the pricing than to spike it after a few years. and based off of my own professional experience, I think it goes over better to just get people used to standard incremental price increases. It's just if you did one in January, it seems early. And you heard it here. The Avengers, all models, seen a $100 price increase. Come January 1st, the other Stern titles that are being produced will also then see that $100 price increase.
    59:16
    So we do know that about the pricing, which puts the LE at an MSRP of $91.99. $9,200. Yep. But we're getting closer to Jersey Jack pinball pricing on an LE. How do you think these sold so far?
    59:34
    Great. Great is a great way to describe how these have been selling. Do you think the LE sold out immediately? I do. They did. it's hard to gauge that measurement because all the le's are distributed through dealers so for the most part all le's sell out no matter the title but whether or not those distributors sell them is another thing we had a um i always want more but a comfortable large enough amount of LE allotment, and we sold out within the first minute. I mean, they were gone before they were gone kind of thing. They went fast, and I was trying to refer people that wanted LEs to other dealers, and those people were pretty much sold out as well. There might be a few floating around out there, but at $91.99, these things went quick. There were 500 of them. pros and premiums have been flying as well off the pre-order shelves and you guess that premiums would sell better than pros which is typically pros are substantially cheaper than premiums so you wouldn't think unless there was something a large differentiating factor there wouldn't be something that uh the premiums would sell more on but we have sold a significantly higher amount of premiums to the pros at this point. That's pinball. Can you believe people are really going in on this premium with that price tag versus the pros now? The pros are like the best value in pinball. Yeah, but the premium pro price differential remains the same as it always has. So I think the issue is that in this game, when you look at it initially, you feel like there's more there on the premium. to you know that's always the challenge is what are you getting for the besides the different art package and and all of that the you know the more full-featured game it's like what are you getting with the premium versus the pro so you take a game like aerosmith for example and it's like oh you get this little flipper upper play field thing versus you know no little upper flipper and you're probably like that doesn't make much of a gameplay difference and then you take something like this where it's like okay well you get the actual subway you get the lifting spinning disc you get an entire new ramp system uh it's just so you have all this it looks it just it looks like there's more game there yeah yeah i mean when i i mean that was i i kind of felt the same when i first saw jurassic park and the the really cool t-rex toy yeah but ultimately over time i i got to where i was like i think i'd be happy with jurassic park as a pro because as cool as that is i don't think that it necessarily significantly enough changed the gameplay but with this it's like okay well you're moving from a a pym stand up to a vertical up kicker that goes onto a ramp so it feeds differently you've got the captain marvel is a ramp instead of just uh you know spinner shot uh you've got the lifting ringmaster style effect rather than it just being the totem lamp plus the entire subway system underneath it uh it's like yeah i just i mean i'd have to see a lot of times even when i'm skeptical on pros i start to come around because the price difference is so much better but i i think when you initially look at it this is not one of those games where like uh guardians where you look at the two models and you're like i don't need plastic groot arms let's just go pro gameplay differences help i mean that's that's always been this like with Walking Dead, the struggle. Do I want to give up the Walker bombs? We sold, man, I'm going to guess five or six to one here. I'm not surprised, especially before. I was surprised. That's a big difference. It is, but it's an L1. It's an L1 and it looks so much more substantive at the premium level. Here's the problem you're going to hear on this show.
    63:39
    They're selling so well that I'm a bit fearful about how they're going to build them. Meaning that I think there's going to be some frustrated people with when they may receive their premium. And as a dealer, that feels horrible.
    64:00
    And sometimes you get people backing out on sales because of it. Well, that would be interesting. I do think it is a threat, especially given we know the upcoming Deep Root and Jersey Jack reveals are coming along. And if there's anything I've learned in all my years in pinball is that pinball new in-box buyers are very fickle and willing to shift their money. Yeah, yeah. And so I think pros, the release is this. They're doing it a little different again, Dennis. The pros initially, they're going to do a small run probably this week. And they're just going zero to one per dealer. Zero to one per dealer. That's it. you're going to see the biggest run of Avengers come out of the LEs. That's the first biggest run. The LE buyers are going to get their games first, and that's end of September for the LE buyers. The beginning of October, they'll probably run some more pros, the big bulk of pros. Then you will see mid-October, you're going to see the premiums mid to late October, and then it'll go back and forth between pros and premiums. The problem being pro people are going to have to wait until after the L.E.s. That's a different strategy that Stern's having this time around. We saw that, though, to a degree, right, with Turtles, was it? Mm-hmm. A little bit, but there's still a lot of pros that went out too personally. I think the shift makes sense for Stern. I think they should have done it a long time ago. I have been talking with Stern and asking them, and when I say ask, listener, I mean fucking begging them, please, please add an additional run of premiums in October. Make that run larger. Do another run in November because right now I think they're slated for like a December build of the second run of premiums. Yeah, I mean, given where the sales are, I could see them, you know, it may be most valuable based off of orders to decide what your priorities are. So they are looking into it. I think it makes sense for them to move to doing LEs first because people are paying a premium at that range. They deserve an accommodation for that. Yeah. So I think that being ahead of pro makes sense. And then normally, if the normal model is we sell more pros than premiums, I understand why you would then want to go and do your pros second. But if that's not how the order lists are looking, then it would make sense to move the premiums up. The logic may be, though, that if you put premiums last, maybe you convince some people to go for the LE because they don't want to wait two months. Yes. But if there are no LEs available, then what good does that do? It doesn't do any good. Exactly. So I think Stern is – they're looking at that. So all of the premium buyers out there, rest easy. I think that you might see some changes and it will hopefully get you premiums before. If I committed to buy a pro from you right here on the show right now, would you give me the one that you're getting? I would not. then you can go f*** yourself.
    66:58
    I almost said yes too just because I want so bad to sell you a game, Dennis. I want so bad. I know what my value is. See if Cointaker will give you that one pro. Cointaker probably would. They wouldn't. No, they like me. They would not. Damn it, Dennis. I'm not going to sleep tonight. I'm going to rest easy dreaming about some pinball accessories, and that's toppers. Let's talk about toppers really quick here. I know you don't want to get into it, but we had a promo video for Avengers showing off all of the accessories, including the armor, side blades. We had the shooter rod. Shooter rod. And the topper. Announcing topper right now. I'm glad that they did this. I think it's good to do the accessory announcement when the game is revealed so people can plan. Looks good. Looks like it's going to be a $600 topper. That's what we're being told at this point. But keep in mind, just because they showed it off doesn't mean that they're ready to ship. We're not going to see these Avengers toppers likely until November. That's why I haven't sent out any invoices for our customers. We've got a long list of people wanting the Avengers topper. But they're like, well, where's my topper invoice? I'm like, it's not coming until November, so I'd like to at least take a look at it a little better, make sure we get the right pricing. Same with Elvira Topper. There's been a lot of discussion about, let's move over to Elvira. Okay. Really quick, what do you think about the Elvira Topper? Not coming, I can't say that it came out, because people are like, it was announced, and I hear some rhetoric on a couple different other shows, and when I say couple, I just mean one. Rhetoric saying, oh, they give us what we want in Avengers, and then, oh, they timed this Elvira topper to come out with a $1,000 price tag. Thanks for screwing us, Stern. I'm here to tell you right now, Dennis, I'm here to tell you listeners, that is not how it happened. This was not technically officially announced. Toppers are kind of a thing for Stern. So they've given us pictures and they've given us a price for a little bit on this topper. They give us the prices for toppers, but sometimes those prices change. So I usually hold out and wait until we get some official pictures. I know what the damn thing is doing. But there was a dealer that showed pictures of it sitting on a cubicle with the $1,000 price tag. And everybody's like, oh, they announced it. And they tried to time. No no no no no Just so happened that a dealer was wanting to show it off now But Dennis Yeah it a lot Is it okay I don know It just so happened that a dealer was wanting to show it off now But Dennis Yeah it a lot Is it okay I don What are your thoughts? $1,000 topper.
    69:37
    Fuck $600. I think it's too – like for what it does, I think it's overpriced. We don't really know what it does yet. For whatever it will do, it will be overpriced. Let me put it that way. It looks different than your typical flat plastic like the Jurassic Park people didn't like. Yeah, it reminds me of a foam cooler. No, it doesn't. Yeah. It reminds me of what I get at the Halloween store. I'm not impressed, but am I ever with toppers? $1,000. And somebody said they're limited to $200. Here they go. That would explain part of the price spike on that, if that's true. Hear it here. This is not a limited edition topper. It is not. If they choose to make $200, which initially they will, then they very likely will only make $200.
    70:26
    If they're not hard capping it at $200, then I think it becomes very difficult to a lot of people to understand the $1,000 price point. Yeah, but they are not calling it a limited edition number topper. Well, that's the first I've heard of it. I heard it here first after all. But I think the plan is to make $200, yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, my opinion is Stern can do what they want. I think they've clearly shown they have absolutely next to no interest to make toppers. And so it seems to me like they just keep raising the price and not want to make more. And I don't think it's driven by anything other than they just don't want to be making toppers, but they do it for whatever reason, because they know it's easy money, I guess. Yeah. And, I mean, people who buy them will probably be able to get more than they bought them for. So it's, I mean, that's what we see even with non-limited toppers in the past. So they're officially licensed. So my thought is Stern can do what it wants on this, and there's not much point in complaining about it. But I do sympathize with a lot of people that I think feel that toppers were an accessory for everyone. And now, at least with Stern's official toppers, they have decided that toppers are for whales. and you need to throw a lot of money in to be able to get a topper that's officially licensed and that's just the way it is. A bit dichotomous there. I don't think that everybody that buys that topper is a whale. No, I think it's at the... More of a manatee or a porpoise. And I ain't going to name names, but I even know other podcasting folk that are now buying toppers without even owning the games. We have several of my friends are doing that, yeah. And that's not necessarily whale behavior per se, but it does show there's a fear that toppers only go up in price. You have to act even if you're not sure you're going to need the topper. And so people are buying them speculatively, and that just wasn't how it used to be. So it's a mental shift, and there are a lot of people – I know people will say, well, you bought a pinball machine. Why can't you – you can afford a topper. And it's like, no. There are people – there are public school teachers and stuff in this hobby that are buying new in box. They cannot just keep throwing dollar amounts out. I mean, we're at the point where six Elvira toppers, if this price holds, equals a pro. I mean, think about that for a moment. Yeah, that is significant. So I understand why buyers who would want to get it at retail are pissed because it's a huge investment, and they don't plan to sell the game, and they got this topper. It's just an extra. I mean, it's four figures. But people are expecting me to shill this. that's what they think even though i love poppers before i'm extracting it i would i would pay whatever for decent great toppers before i was a dealer uh but i will continue to show this because the topper looks great can we argue that nobody's arguing that it looks good looks good no not compared to black knight oh fuck why do we keep comparing because it's an awesome topper it's less than 500 damn dollars okay would you rather own a black knight or elvira game I'd rather have the Black Knight mech and we just change the helmet to Elvira's. I would stay away from that argument too. So the Black Knight topper aside, it looks good. Is it expensive? Yes, it is very expensive compared to some of the other toppers that were announced for the last 10 years. Compared to all of them. Well, what does that mean? What the hell does that mean? It's expensive. It means there's a lot of money for a not very important accessory. Relative to what, though? Relative to the toppers that we've seen before, including ones that were released this year. Maybe those were underpriced. No, they were not underpriced. I don't know. You would have to be saying Stern was really bad at their business if they had been selling underpriced for years and losing money on these things.
    74:20
    Underpriced doesn't necessarily mean you're losing money. This is pinball. I've seen the markups that y'all do. It's ridiculous compared to other hobbies. I'm not getting much money on these fucking toppers.
    74:31
    But when it comes to this topper, maybe the other ones were underpriced. That's what I'd say. If these are selling that well, these are going to fly. They'll fly off the shelves. They'll be done. Yes, that's why I can't fault Stern for doing it. I can't fault Stern for making the choice to make easy money.
    74:51
    I'm here to say if you want one of these toppers, you better call your dealer now. we've got a couple spots left from our initial order but you better call now and accept the moral judgment that people will have for you for doing it and if they do they can fuck off yeah like fuck off if you've got an issue with what i'm buying that's my whole thing fuck off i don't tell you what kind of cereal to buy piss off i think that's fair i don't see the point in credit i mean i get it in the sense of people going well if we can people are being called dummies again well calling people like if you want to if you want to stop it and try to organize a boycott or something, then formally try and do it. But trying to topper shame folks is not going to get you the result you want. I've got a guy that's making toppers right now that I'm spending way too much money on, Dennis. You know this? Yeah. And he was crying about this, saying people are idiots. And I stopped him. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up.
    75:46
    Coming from the guy that's building toppers right now, that's going to cost me a mortgage. It's always the people that I'm like, you're the one saying something here that makes no sense to me. It's all relative. Here's the thing. Here's my main part of argument, and I can take this offline and talk to you guys, private message and stuff. Where are the fucking alternatives?
    76:10
    Where are they at, Dennis? Everybody cries about this. There are alternatives. Where? Here's where Stern has got, where they've, I think, figured it out. They're the only ones that can offer a licensed one. Okay. And they're the ones that can integrate it into the actual game, tap it into the actual game. But my point is, where are the alternatives? There's no alternative for an Elvira topper. Stranger things. And if you're going to show me some of these aftermarket ones, then I'm going to say, guess what? Well, of course it's going to be aftermarket. If it's not from Stern, I mean, what else do you want? That's what I'm saying. If you're taking those in comparison, not all of them, but I would say a majority of them just plain look like shit. And I'm not going to pay $200 for that. At least the Stern toppers look better than any of the other toppers out there.
    76:56
    They just do. So until somebody else can step up and offer a competing product, then I'm going to continue to say this is smart business for Stern. And while I don't want to spend the money, I love the looks of it on top of my machines. Strong take. Let's fly through the rest of this news. Jersey Jack Pinball released an advertisement and said, I want you to please take me home.
    77:23
    Dennis, would you ever take me down to the Paradise City where the grass is green and the girls are pretty? No.
    77:30
    Would you not just please take me home? They are just teasing this Guns N' Roses game like no other. But, I mean, how can you deny this? Does this not pump you up, Dennis? I mean, Dennis. come on how do you not just full erection here for me I'm not gonna lie get it actually it excites you right another dad rock theme unfortunately does not but I like Guns N' Roses so yeah it's hard not to get excited about the upcoming jersey jack pinball when are we going to see it who the hell knows but get those wallets out because does anybody do that anymore everybody get my wallet out all the time i got my iphone i'll do my apple pay thank you 3% up charge for you buddy I'm looking forward to seeing it oh I know some stuff I'm not supposed to know I know some stuff and uh deeper sea deeper pinball I don't know if I'm ready for one of those yet new teaser has evolved and now shows the green fist coming out of the ground I don't know if you've seen that punchy punch punch I do know this TPN correspondent Chris Chandler said that it was like he was looking around when he was saying he's like, I can confirm that there is an event in September that I'll be at. I think he's showing up for TPN, isn't he? I think you're right. I forgot to get him swag. They have a new hammer tested logo. I saw that. don't worry about that made of wood it's real sturdy oh boy sorry about that look it was good to meet you but uh yeah chris chandler said they are now soliciting for quotes from clear coat and play field apologists out there still throwing that sand in the eyes. Spooky Pinball announced that on their recent podcast, I believe, or they insinuated, that David Van Ness, the ongoing animation director over there, or lead, he's going to be the new title designer for the next game. Oh, that'll be interesting.
    80:10
    And I can't leave you now, listener, without going through your PINBALL MARKET TRENDS OOH BABY I tried to do that sounding like Guns N' Roses Axl, but it just sounded like a porno. Ah, sorry. Turning up this week, as you guessed it, Stern's Avengers Infinity Quest. And how couldn't it be? It's all the talk, it's all the chatter, it's all the sales. Particularly the premium LE models. Because those things are like cabbage patch kids on Christmas. If we had a physical location of where these things were developed and released, I guarantee you there would be at least seven fistfights over a bright yellow Avengers LE. you know I'm right you know that I am right also trending out this week is the rumored GNR by JJP ASAP is when we N-E-E-D it I'm ready for it but the teases are trickling out more and more here and there but I am so dying ready for this thing my interested list is getting to the point where it's looking like saying this naughty list And every time I hear that music, every single time, it gets me. Email us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. Let us know what your favorite Guns N' Roses song is. Maybe we'll report that next week for what it is. And hell, with an I'm in a good mood, let's trend up more. Also trending up this week is the TPN Discord channel. Holy moly. This thing is so active and so fun and so behind the curtain that people are now actually trying to join TPN just to get into the Discord channel. Should I do a podcast? Maybe I'll do a podcast. Maybe I'll do a stream.
    81:58
    Just a reminder to get yourself out there, record a podcast, do a stream, do a video show, send it to us, and we'll likely get you in the mix of things. But it's hard to stay in the mix of things. I'm selling your game before the new one comes out. I warned you on the GNR stuff with Data East. This one's a bit tricky to predict, but trending down as we... It was the original Avengers by Stern Pinball 2012. I'm sorry, people. Couldn't give you a heads up on this one. I didn't see this one coming, but if you got the original Avengers machine, you just lost a little money. Yep, numbers are already starting to fall on the original Avengers. Doesn't matter if it's the LE or the Pro. Pro probably is low enough that they're retaining a little bit better percentage-wise than the LE. Now I will give a consideration to a blue Avengers LE that is for sale in Florida on Pennside. So Pennside or Flags down in Tampa. I got your back. It's one owner. This thing is nice. I still like the looks and some of the play of this game. $5,200? Hell, I'll do it. Buy, buy, buy! For sure.
    83:10
    So besides that one, all the other ones are dropping. Does that make sense? Who cares? Oh, you're hungry for those? That's fine. Let's jump into it. Here are your Deals of the Week. Buy, buy, buy! Deal of the Week this week, Dennis. You're just going to love this one. It's a Walking Dead topper, and it's priced higher than it was new in box. This one I think is still actually in the box. I had two ones still in the box. This is from Miguel Ortega out of L.A., California. and he's got it for $6.50.
    83:46
    Sounds crazy, but it's a deal of the week for sure because they stopped making them. You can't find them anymore. I like just roughly think to myself that some of these toppers that they no longer make that people want a la Ecto-1 Ghostbusters topper, a la Kiss topper, a la Walking Dead topper, all of these that they don't make that are not readily available out there, just roughly put in your mind that these are now $1,000 toppers. So at $6.50, still the week. Buy, buy, buy. He says, oh, Bo, I bet you could convince him $6.50 shipped. But he's going to get $6.50. He'd get $7.50. He's leaving money on the pinball machine. I don't like the table word. And I will give, speaking of toppers, I'm going to give a special consideration, what would have been a deal of the week, a special consideration here for a recently sold Batman 66 SLE topper.
    84:46
    You can't buy those. Hell, I don't even know if they work with a premium code. But you can't buy it. I don't know why he was selling it. I do. He said he sold his game so he didn't need the topper. Why the hell would he sell the game?
    84:59
    Might be a smart thing. But he was selling it for $1,650. People! $1,650 for a topper! Stern topper. And I would have considered that a deal. weeks you cannot buy that topper that's it's very akin to the ship in the bottle topper i would have paid 1650 for that as well i did message this individual and i said i'll give you 1500 low bottom a little bit just thinking if he's not getting any hits yeah i'll store it nope sold for 1650 i missed out as i'm perusing pins up what uh yeah let's do it But deals are done. Are you shitting me?
    85:38
    Oh, my. These are dirty. The first one up on deals, though, WTF, is a Walking Dead Premium Ultimate Edition.
    85:49
    Outside of New York City, it looks like Massapequa, New York. By bent 98, you'll be bent to be spending $10,000 on a Walking Dead Premium. Okay. it's pinball refinery overpaid on that fine you got the topper great the voodoo glass i like it penn stadium light sure color dmd you betcha and 20 million other things that he's added to this does it look good hell yeah it looks good powder coat it looks real good except for that translate i just don't like that hasan chop translate i think it's hideous but other than that it looks good. Don't look $10,000 good, though. Sell, sell, sell. What the 5-5-5-5-5. Listen here, Ben. My Mesopotamia. You can put feathers on a dog, but that don't make it a chicken. Come on.
    86:59
    Any more of these kind of lips. I'm going to send you to the ranch with Cush Me Outside, girl. How about that?
    87:09
    Thank you, Dr. Phil. Thank you. Sometimes you make the right decision. Sometimes you make the decision right.
    87:21
    Just like you, my dad once told me, Boy, don't ever miss a good chance to shut up. Security. Okay, you little smart-ass shit. This ain't my first rodeo. All right, Phil. Okay. Another one of these head scratchers.
    87:40
    Screw you, Shill Meany. Security. Fuck, Phil's doing it again. Shill that thousand dollar topper bullshit.
    87:49
    Topper Apologist, what the hell's wrong with you? Another one of these head scratchers is, oh, I don't want to report on this, is a fellow dealer. All love here, Gap, but Great American Pinball on Pinside listed a South Park.
    88:03
    $5,500. No, it doesn't have custom powder coat. No, I don't believe it has a color DMD. It's got side art. It's been shopped. It's got a working toilet with a poo inside. I'm sorry, I can't do it. No! This is ridiculous. $5,500. I think you missed the wrong key. 4,000 tops for a retail shop. South Park. No, don't do it to people. $5,500. The whites on the cabinet don't even look white. They look yellow. It's like somebody pissed in the snow.
    88:39
    Pissed in the snow means no, no, no. Ladies and gentlemen, the most coveted segment in pinball podcasting. thank you for listening to the pinball show's pinball market friends Hulk edition ultimate edition closing the shop down Dennis I had a good week this was fun yeah too bad we were rushed it's not rush it's guns and roses or is it Led Zeppelin both of which would do better than I thought it was Toy Story yeah I like that I think people like my Randy Newman Oh, where can they reach us at, Dennis? They can reach us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. You can always write in. Zach will read all your messages and maybe reply. And you can also reach Dennis over at EGP. What's the email over there? Yeah, collectitgamerspodcast at gmail.com. And you Twitch streamed this week. I did. I did early in the morning where no sane pinball person is up yet. You can buy a brand new pinball machine from Flippin' Out Pinball to help support Nicola and I. That would be greatly appreciated. We've got some used machines as well as the Escalera Stair Climbing Hand Trucks. 812-457-9711. If you want on that rumored GNR interested list, call us. If you want on that rumored Led Zeppelin or whatever from Stern, call us. Messages.
    90:06
    What about the Elvira Topper? Call us. Messages. Zach, Z-A-C-H at flip the letter N out pinball dot com. As well as straight down the middle of pinball show, I think, question mark. Some really cool stuff coming. We're going to work with a company and do some promo stuff here soon. Stay tuned. Last week on TPN, we had the final round reacting to the reactions of Avengers promo. Did you see that video? Very interesting stuff. Man, they're so smart over there. Just another pinball podcast and another episode talking about Avengers. Silver Ball Chronicles and moving units. Bally's art revolution. Yeah, I'm in the middle of that. TPN next week. Hopefully we'll hear some puppet pals. Jeez, we're supposed to release it like a month ago, I thought. They're fucking divas now.
    90:56
    It's just unbelievable. They come out one or two episodes. It shakes the entire pinball industry to the core. they put their shades on and their fur coats and now they can't be talked to. Or you can't directly look at them in the eye. It's a weird thing. We signed a contract. It is what it is. But the TPN affiliates will be streaming all week. Check them all out because they're killing it and we're adding more people each and every day. But until next week, for Dennis Creasel, I'm Zach Manning. Remember that $1,000 toppers are okay if they're limited.
    91:31
    And always practice safe pinball. And not in this lifetime up. So long, everybody. Oh, Dennis, won't you please take me home? Make me a sandwich. Take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty. Take me home.
    91:57
    Take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty. Oh, won't you please take me home Take me down to a very bad city Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty Take me home, yeah, yeah Take me down to a very bad city Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty Oh, won't you please take me home Bye.