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Episode 76: Stephen Silver from Multimorphic's Heist!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Oct 15, 2020
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TL;DR

Stephen Silver on Multimorphic P3's Heist module, platform features, and community gaming innovation.

Summary

Stephen Cameron Silver, creative director at Multimorphic, discusses his background entering pinball through collector David Van Ess, his collaboration with Jerry Thompson, and his role leading development of the Heist game module. The conversation focuses heavily on Multimorphic P3 platform features including Twitch Connect, head-to-head Cosmic Kart Racing gameplay with interactive chat commands, modular game economics, and the platform's open developer ecosystem.

Key Claims

  • Heist was released in March of this year

    high confidence · Stephen directly states the release timing in his background narrative about joining Multimorphic

  • Multimorphic P3 system starts at approximately ten thousand dollars for the system and one game

    high confidence · Stephen provides explicit pricing for the P3 system entry point

  • Heist module costs $2,750 for P3 owners to purchase independently

    high confidence · Stephen states this price directly when discussing module costs ranging from $1,500 to $2,750

  • The Twitch Connect feature was recently released and allows chat viewers to send real-time power-up commands affecting Cosmic Kart Racing gameplay

    high confidence · Stephen provides detailed explanation of Twitch Connect mechanics, command structure, and monetization via bits

  • David Van Ess, an Australian, is the creative director at Spooky Pinball

    high confidence · Stephen identifies Van Ess explicitly when explaining how he entered the pinball industry

  • Bride of Pinbot was Stephen's first pinball machine that got him into the hobby

    high confidence · Stephen confirms this when discussing games that introduce people to pinball

  • Multimorphic has three to four game designers working on projects, many part-time, which sometimes extends development timelines

    medium confidence · Stephen acknowledges team size fluctuates and part-time status affects development speed

  • Cosmic Kart Racing supports up to four simultaneous head-to-head players online with real-time power-up interactions

    high confidence · Stephen describes the racing game mechanics in detail with multiple streaming examples

Notable Quotes

  • “I looked at all the really lucrative industries out there and I thought, you know, the one that I could really cash in on...pinball”

    Stephen Cameron Silver @ early interview — Humorous self-deprecating comment about joining pinball industry; establishes his tongue-in-cheek approach

  • “It's a kart racing game, your classic kart racing game, where you're throwing power-ups at each other and you're trying to go back and forth...you just want to screw over the guy next to you or whatever”

    Stephen Cameron Silver @ mid-interview — Describes the core appeal of Cosmic Kart Racing competitive gameplay; shows design philosophy

  • “This has possibly been the most fun I've had playing pinball ever because it's just this true competition where you're doing stuff that you can affect their machine in real time”

    Stephen Cameron Silver @ mid-interview — Expresses personal enthusiasm for head-to-head online pinball gameplay innovation

  • “Once you buy your second platform, you're saving money over two new box purchases”

    Stephen Cameron Silver @ pricing discussion — Key value proposition for P3 system modular economics; addresses affordability objections

  • “The one thing that I think is really cool about the platform is that there's a free dev kit that you can download”

    Stephen Cameron Silver @ platform features — Highlights open development ecosystem and accessibility for independent game creators

  • “He made a game to play the theme song and went through. And so it had to finish with a double super jackpot with the side loop on ice. And he pulled that off in like two days or something like that.”

    Stephen Cameron Silver @ closing remarks — Demonstrates rapid game development capability with free dev kit; shows community creativity

Entities

Stephen Cameron SilverpersonJerry ThompsonpersonDavid Van EsspersonMultimorphiccompanyHeistgameMultimorphic P3productCosmic Kart RacinggameTwitch Connect

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Multimorphic P3 modular game economics positioned as cost-effective alternative to buying new machines annually; second module purchase achieves break-even vs. traditional manufacturers

    high · Stephen explicitly states owners save money after second module purchase compared to buying two new traditional pinball machines annually

  • ?

    technology_signal: Twitch Connect feature enables real-time chat interaction with game state; represents significant innovation in streaming/community integration for pinball

    high · Stephen describes detailed Twitch Connect mechanics, command structure, and recent implementation with multiple streaming examples

  • ?

    product_launch: Heist game module released March 2024 for Multimorphic P3; priced at $2,750 for existing owners

    high · Stephen states direct release date and pricing for Heist

  • ?

    community_signal: Open developer ecosystem with free P3 dev kit driving third-party game creation; evidence of community engagement with rapid game development (2-day turnarounds)

    high · Stephen describes free dev kit availability, GammaGoat's two-day theme song game, and third-party titles like Ranger into Ruins

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Multimorphic emphasizes platform-wide feature rollout benefiting all owners; post-purchase value enhancement through software updates (Bluetooth, head-to-head, Twitch Connect)

    high · Stephen articulates strategy of announcing platform features that all P3 owners receive automatically regardless of which game module they own

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.308

0:00
Poor Man's Pinball Podcast live show. Today's show is brought to you by Pin Stadium Lights. I put some awesome Neo Fusions in my Turtles. I've been playing them for a couple of weeks. They are fucking awesome. That's right. It's going to be one of those shows where Drew's dropping F-bombs. What do you know? It's early.
0:18
Pin Stadium Lights. Go to Pin Stadiums. Tell Scott we sent you. Use the code POORMANS at checkout for 10% off your order. Buy some accessories. Get 10% off. Get some free shipping. and get other stuff. It's great. This episode is also brought to you by TWIP, This Week in Pinball. Jeff Patterson, we steal most of our stuff from him. He is the source for news and pinball. We love TWIP here at the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Check out This Week in Pinball for all the latest and greatest pinball news. We are also brought to you by pinballprices.com. Doc Finlay takes all the prices from all the sales that he can gather, and he puts them in one cohesive thing for you to read. If you're buying a machine, you're selling a machine, pinballprices.com. You can check out sales that have already happened. You can see what your machine is worth. It's awesome. And he bought us booze. That's really cool. He bought us Poor Man's Pinball Kessler. He did. That's not a sponsor of the show.
1:14
We also have Pinshades. Go to Pinside. I'll put mine on right now to make you guys jealous. Go to the Pinside Market. Check out Pinshades. Tell Jockton we sent you. Poor Man at checkout. for 10% off your order. Ian's going to style these for you in a minute here. They are awesome. You can track your balls. Things we love to do here at the Poor Man's Pinballs. Got to know where they come from, where they go. Tracking balls, all those crazy light shows from Dwight, my turtles, it blinds me every day, and then I'm like, fuck, I got these shades, and then I put them on, and I'm not blinded anymore. I mean, how cool would you look wearing one of these, watching Guns N' Roses going off, right? Oh, it would be spectacular. And last but not least, We are brought to you by Flippin' Out Pinball. Talk to our buddies, Zach and Nicole. They are some of the best distributors in the business. You're looking for a new machine? They got it. The new Guns N' Roses? He's got it. It's a new shiny? He's definitely got it. The LEs? The CEs? I don't know. We're talking about CEs right now. Womp, womp. A little bit of a sore subject, but you want something? You want Avengers? He's got it. He's got Deadpool. He's got Guardians of the Galaxy. He's got Star Wars Comic Edition. What else do you want? Nothing. Let's get on with the show. Let's do it. She's sick of talking already. Are those boner biceps in your pants, or are you just happy to see me? Oh, wait. What I mean by that, of course, is this is Four Man's Pinball Podcast. Brought to you by Kessler's, Dick Wade's, Black Hole's, Boner Biceps. All right. We are here. We are live and in studio. Is that how that works? In live studio. Live person. I don't know. I can't use words already. It's going to be a good episode. But we have a poor man's first today. What's our first? Well, the first is Ian and I are in studio, and we have our first live guest.
technology
Spooky Pinballcompany
Texas Pinball Festivalevent
John Papadukeperson
Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
Mystery Pinball Theater 3000organization
Zach Sharpeperson
Nicoleperson
Buffalo Pinballorganization
Gamma The Goatperson
Scott Ian Heroperson
Nicholas Backboneperson
  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stephen Cameron Silver joined Multimorphic two years ago as creative director for Heist after working with Jerry Thompson on video/promotional content

    high · Stephen describes joining trajectory: met Jerry, did video work, then asked to lead Heist design team

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Head-to-head online pinball with real-time player-affecting power-ups represents novel competitive format distinguishing from traditional match play

    high · Stephen emphasizes real-time nature of competition, describes power-up mechanics (EMP, blockade, blackout, reverse flippers), and notes it as most fun pinball experience

  • $

    market_signal: P3 modular pricing ($1,500-$2,750 per game) positioned as significantly cheaper than standalone pinball machine purchases ($7,000-$15,000+)

    high · Stephen articulates value proposition by comparing module costs to traditional manufacturer pricing for annual machine purchasing

  • ?

    operational_signal: Multimorphic maintains small design team (3-4 people, mostly part-time) which Stephen acknowledges extends development timelines on new games

    medium · Stephen states team size fluctuates between 3-4 with many part-time roles and notes this affects development speed

  • ?

    content_signal: Stephen Cameron Silver produces animations for Mystery Pinball Theater 3000 streaming show; indicates cross-platform content creation in pinball media ecosystem

    high · Hosts identify Stephen as animation creator for their show and jokingly reference his cheese slice artwork

  • ?

    venue_signal: Buffalo Pinball operates P3 venue with head-to-head gameplay capabilities; hosts online community events like 'wan parties' coordinating worldwide P3 players

    medium · Stephen describes Discord coordination for races and scheduled wan party bringing together global P3 owners

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Multimorphic acquiring various IP licenses for P3 games including some proprietary original titles (Lexi, Heist, Cosmic Kart Racing) alongside potential licensed themes

    medium · Stephen mentions diverse game portfolio but discussion focuses primarily on original Multimorphic-designed titles rather than licensed IP

    • 3:17
    Welcome, everyone. Steven Silver. Steven Silver, welcome, brother. Steven Silver comes to us. What a butthole. What a greeting. I love that. He's one of us. Yeah, yeah. Can everyone hear Steven all right, or do we need to turn this shit up? Let us know in the chats. Steven Silver, tell us who you are and who you work for and what you're doing. Oh, I got to give him a hand. My name is... Sorry, go ahead. Put it. Oh, put it. Yeah, put on those shades. Yeah, my name is Steven Silver. I'm a video editor and animator in Houston, Texas. But for the last couple of years, I've been working as the creative director with Multimorphic, creating our latest game, Heist. And so I led the team of designers and engineers and programmers to put this machine together. Those cheese slices are for Heist. Heist gets a lot of cheese slices around here. We should say that Stephen Silver is also the man who made all of our wonderful animations for this wonderful show you're enjoying right now. Those cheese slices belong to Stephen. He is responsible. You know, it took him three years to draw every individual cheese slice. That was a lot of cheese. What kind of cheese is that, Stephen?
    4:32
    It's an artisanal yellow. Tell us of your creative process to make cheese. No, I'm just kidding. We're not doing that. So let's start from the beginning of the show, Drew.
    4:44
    Excuse me. Episode 67. 76. Yeah. I was going to say dyslexic. 76, sir. We're here. And how was your week? It was great. Yeah? Yeah. It was a good week? It was a good week. What you drinking there, pal? Poor Man's Pinball Whiskey and Coke. And Coke. And I am still chugging away at the Oktoberfest beers.
    5:08
    I think I killed three out of the seven breweries, so now I am on to Lakefront, which is our local brew. Before we get too far into this, I just want to make sure that nobody sent us any sugar in a box this week. No. Because I am done with sugar in a box. I appreciate all the submissions. Not that that was a real contest, but that's what I'm calling it. A couple weeks ago, if you guys missed it, we had a moon pie tasting. That was something out of this world. Beaver nuggets? And beaver nuggets. And then last week, we got a great care package from Jessie J. Thank you, Jessie. Down under in Australia. It was awesome. She sent us Tim Tams. We did a Tim Tam slam. So check out last week. That was also a Dr. John's suggestion, the Tim Tam slam. Yeah, the Tim Tam slam. I did forget. Did you? She sent me a video of a 15-second, Jessie J. did, a 15-second clip of us doing the Tim Tam slam. Yes. I didn't see it. when I got sick of trying to suck that through the Tim Tam, I just dropped it and said no. She almost pissed her pants. She was laughing so hard. You just hear her in the background cracking up. And she goes, I just lost it. This was the best ever. And I watched this thing over like two or three times because it was so freaking funny. Oh, my God. She got such enjoyment out of watching us just be idiots with these stupid Tim Tams. It's been a while since I chugged a liquor butt. Yes, we tried doing it through a chocolate wafer. Yeah. You know, when you say it like that, it just sounds really dumb. So here we are. So anyways, today's episode won't be anything like that. We have Steven Silver. He's the guy. No care packages. We're all good. We don't even have a mail. We have no notes. We have our guest, Steven Silver. Steven, you didn't know this, but you are the babysitter for the day. Oh.
    6:59
    Nice. What are you drinking, Steven? I believe I'm drinking some Sam's Club Purified drinking water tonight. Perfect.
    7:09
    That's that triple distilled shit. That's good. That's that real good shit. All right, so let's hop into chat real quick and see who's all out there. We got Pinball Prices. We got Louis Cici. G'day. From Australia. Pete Quint, Product Placement. I don't know. Let's see. What else? Tish. Tish Edwards. Brian Cosner, our latest and greatest tribe member. We have Mike Williams, roommate, question mark.
    7:46
    Brian Cosner says, sucking a Tim Tam sounds dirty. It does, dude. It does. It was dirty. It was super dirty. Jesse J is there. It was such a forlorn sound. No. That was the part that got it. I dropped it. No. I'm not doing this shit. No more.
    8:06
    Rachel's here. Rachel, hello. I've been the babysitter, but so bad. Yeah, Rachel, you got to keep us in line, lady. I know. Jeremy Schmitz is here. I'm out. Oh, he's already gone.
    8:18
    We lost him already. Jeremy, thanks for stopping by. He was like, nope, if he needs a babysitter, it's over. It's over. All right. So, Steven Silver, my man. um again thank you again for our animations so i wanted to talk a little bit today with you about um let's just start it with your background as far as pinball i mean um when did you get into pinball how did that all kind of go and turn about or did you hate pinball and you just had to get a job and this was the only guy hiring yeah i looked at all the really lucrative industries out there and I thought, you know, the one that I could really cash in on.
    9:00
    I went and about when I was a kid, you know, I was always gravitating to pinball because I sucked at Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat and all these other games. And so pinball was something that I could go and there's a pinball at the bowling alley that I'd tear up all day long. And then I didn't really think about it for years. And about 10 years ago, there's a guy named David Van Ess. You might know him. He's the creative director over at Spooky Pinball. He moves to Houston. He's an Australian. He moves to Houston. He gets a job at my editing company. And David is this Aussie dude that's talking about, I'm going to go up to Arkansas and go buy a pinball machine. And I was just like, man, that's a lot of money. Like, why would you ever spend that much money on a pinball machine? that is the same game or whatever and it was not long before uh me and him were going to like local tournaments and stuff like that and i started going out and buying i caught the bug and i got my first machine was that day to use star wars over there and and just kept going and before long i had more machines than he did and uh then we we were just we would collect them we We put them in our office at the editing company where we worked, and we both were getting involved with different people in the industry going to shows. David started working with John Papaduke well early on before he created Zedware, and Jerry from Multimorphic came to TPF, and he brought this prototype machine of a pinball machine with this interactive ball tracking screen in it and real simple games and everything, but I was just blown away by this machine that he had built, this little white box that was a real prototype machine. He kind of stole the show at TPF that year, and he did a seminar where he took his boards and he built with just components. He built a pinball machine on the table in like 30 minutes and had, you know, some basic code running where he was running flippers, and he had the DMV displaying stuff. And I walked up to this guy after the show, and I was just like, man, I love what you're doing. I totally think it's really cool. I work with video, so let me know if I can help you.
    11:17
    I've been working with them, doing their video work and their promotional work ever since then. Then two years ago, he asked me if he asked the group of people that are all working with him if anybody wanted to step up and work on this next game and be the creative director and kind of lead the team. I said I'd love to do it, and he picked me. and we took off to the races.
    11:41
    We released Heist in March of this year. Okay, all right. Right whenever COVID hit. Sure, sure. It was a bad time, no doubt. But there's a few things on there I want to talk about. Let's start from the beginning. Yeah.
    12:02
    First game that got you into it was Bride of Pimbot, and I find that very interesting because I feel like there are, are only three games that get people into pinball it's it's always the adams family bride of pinbot and the black knight doesn't say black knight yeah black knight that's it those are the three those are like the holy trilogy of games to get people into pinball have you noticed that i don't know something crazy i wouldn't say the only but it's definitely a majority oh my god everyone oh yeah it's it's it's it's uh you know um adams family adams family and it's like no no no it's bride dude it's always been bride bride's what gets everybody in well and then you got the guy in the corner black knight jay bresci play better well because that one taunted you well right thing about being in the arcade and hearing i'm like you can't defeat me you can't get me one of his four lines of text and it threw people off chris chandler's in the house jonathan hall's in the house welcome he's in the house uh we got some attack from mars people in here mike williams you forgot about eight ball deluxe yes oh that's another one so did the rest of the world next thing i wanted to know i i noticed about that story is it sounds to me and i have not met jerry yet but is he truly a mad scientist because it sounds like he's into some mad scientist type shit without the hair without the hair well you don't necessarily need the hair i've seen it both ways but yeah they usually have that ring though at least the ring of madness the power donut yeah there you go so how close is he to a mad scientist in your opinion and um and let's let's let's go back mike williams i love you he called me an asshole i'm just blown away at the stuff that jerry and tj and les and the guys there at at multimorphic are able to do They come up with ideas, and then these ideas are put out into the world in no time. Just the whole concept, there's a new feature that we've got in a P3 called Twitch Connect, where if you're a streamer, you can get online and stream on your P3, and people in chat on Twitch can write commands, and it affects your machine in real time. I saw the entire process from that idea being mentioned to that idea being delivered, and it was an insanely short amount of time that he was able to pull that off. So what can you have him do?
    14:26
    That's pretty cool. Give us an example of that. Well, didn't they just do something recently with Ian Howard? I believe they had a whole Twitch.
    14:36
    They were sabotaging each other's machines. Could you explain and could you go a little bit more into detail on that?
    14:42
    Yeah, so like they did a triple stream. It was four people playing because you can have up to four people playing head-to-head online on Cosmic Car Racing because there's four tracks in the game. So three, there was Kevin with Buffalo Pinball, Ian Hero, who's a gimmick goat, and Jerry were all streaming simultaneously while they were all connected to each other and playing each other in races. And I was in the fourth position over there getting beat up by everybody. while you're playing cosmic car racing this racing game it has a way for the the the players to affect the other machines so if you get a power up by by hitting the target at a certain point and you get a power up let's say you get a roadblock if you hit your launch button at that time to fire the roadblock somebody else's machine has two walls and scoops that pop up in front of their ramps so they can't hit the ramp shots while the walls and scoops are blocking those shots and you can do an EMP, which causes them to spin out and lose speed, and then they've got to hit shots again to get their speed back up. And it's basically your kart racing game, your classic kart racing game, where you're throwing power-ups at each other and you're trying to go back and forth. And that kind of head-to-head gameplay, we've had it for years, where you could put two P3s, three P3s, four P3s together and link them together and play them side-by-side at a show. We had four of them lined up at TPF a couple years ago where people could play them side by side by the show. And that's amazing fun to be just playing lawyer ball at some point, just throwing power-ups at the friends, not even caring about winning anymore. You just want to screw over the guy next to you or whatever. That's called lawyer ball?
    16:21
    Now that we can do it online, head-to-head, it's possibly the most fun I've had playing pinball ever because it's just this true competition where you're doing stuff that you can affect their machine in real time. With Twitch Connect, what you can do with your chat room is your chat room can go in there and you can set it up on your machine because your P3 is running as a chat bot, and every 15 or 20 seconds it'll say, okay, power-ups are ready. And the first person in chat who types EMP1 or EMP2, they're going to send an EMP to that racer so that they can spin out people or they can give players a shield so you could help certain players or hurt other players. And then they have these super power-ups that are kind of the ones that streamers can monetize so they can say, you know, for 100 bits or for 1,000 bits, you can play against me a blockade or a reverse flipper. So people can go and contribute. One person can say, you know, cheer 100 reverse, and the other person, you can have a whole bunch of people stack up their bits together. and then it will tell you on the screen when you get that attack all the chat people that played it against you. Like this many people played a blackout, and blackouts where your entire screen goes black, the lights go black in the back, and you're playing and you don't know what you're supposed to hit until the blackout is on. And so these kind of power-ups and stuff, it's really cool to where people watching the gameplay can get involved and then while you're playing the game, you can do traditional power-ups against each other the way you'd normally do it and play. and it's just a ton of fun because you're not taking turns waiting for the other person to play. You're in real time playing directly against the other person, affecting their machine, and they're affecting you. And the greatest moments of the world is when you can see the finish line of the race and you pass the person at the very last second, or you spin them out at the very last second and pass them up and everything, and everybody's cussing and screaming, and you're geared over the voice channel, and it's awesome. It's a ton of fun. Yeah, it sounds like you're playing pinball in the year 3000 where the rest of us are still stuck in 89. A lot of our listeners are chiming in. They were part of this, and they were having fun in the Twitch chat. Is there a list of commands that was asked where they can see what they can do to affect the play, I guess?
    18:49
    Well, Twitch Connect is a platform-wide feature, so any game can use it. But right now, it's the first game that's using it is Cosmic Kart Racing. Okay. But you can do an EMP, which will target, you say EMP colon one or colon two, three or four. You're basically targeting which racer you want to go against. It'll tell you, the chat bot will say racer one is Jerry, racer two is Stevie, racer three is Gamma Goat. And so you say EMP three and it'll attack Gamma Goat. and then you've got blockade which will throw up the it'll on their machine physically pop up the walls and scoops in front of their ramps so they can't hit ramp shots for like 10 seconds and then there's a shield and then the one that's not in there yet that's a power-up that you can do in the game it's a boost so it'll actually give you more speed they make you go faster but that one's not put in yet and the two super power-ups are blackout where your whole screen and the lights go black and you're playing in the dark you don't know what you're what's lit what you're supposed to hit and then it comes back and then there's reverse flippers where all of a sudden you're you know you get the idea you're reverse flippers and but the strategy when you get a reverse flippers is just to start chipping the game like double flipping until the thing is done and that's the only way you can get through it so that is awesome yeah chris chandler says command drew drink kesslers there you go chris see we're interactive here at the poor man's pinball podcast uh no that is that is super cool and what's really cool about it is you don't even know the royalty checks so yeah you know it's cool that you know holes and cheese slices the people watching can participate like you know everyone in chat is saying they had so much fun doing that oh yeah that's probably got to be one of the best parts of oh you're actual community pinball you know yes very cool oh and we're we're scheduling we haven't done it yet but we're sometime soon it's going to be probably next week we're going to have another we we at the way uh cosmic kart racing head-to-head gameplay works is that anytime we've got like a discord channel where people can arrange for like hey anybody want to play right now and you can jump online and start again start host a race or jump on somebody else's race but uh in a couple of weeks we're hosting a wan party where basically everybody who's got ccrs in the world can jump on and uh we're all at the same time and you see you can see in the room how many people are in there how many races are running you can jump in to decide this person's got two laps on this track and this person's got three laps on this track with these rules and you can choose who you want to race against and you can jump on our discord channel and talk to each other while you're racing and it's just it it's shit talking it's it's it's it's just the most fun in pinball those fan parties i live for every time we do it that's awesome so there's another one coming up pretty soon and you know more people buying into the platform anybody who if if you don't know what the b3 is it's a multi-game platform where you can swap out physical game modules and you can buy a game with heist in it and then you can also buy cosmic cart racing for a fraction of the cost of a regular game and swap out the modules whenever you want you can play this game most of the time your family likes cannon lagoon you can pop that in for the kids to play or you can you can pop in lexi light speed and keep that in there for a while and you swap out the games back and forth or swap in software games you know like there we just had a third party game done by Nick Baldridge called Ranger into Ruins for the Cosmic Heart Racing play field. That's awesome. It's like a one ball game that is kind of based on EM rules with internet connectivity in mind where you connect to a server and every person who's died on the path that you're walking on shows up as a ghost and you can get items from them and stuff like that. And that was a third party game that he wrote and anybody who's got a CCR play field can buy that for $150. Download load it, put it on their machine, they're good to go. Oh, so that's a lot cheaper than most of your modules, right? Yeah, so that's just a software game, right? The modules, though, if you buy a module, the modules are anywhere from like $1,500 for the simple ones to $2,750 for Heist. But everybody who owned a P3 could buy Heist for $2,750, right? That's just a crazy deal, in my opinion, as far as the pinball world goes. that you know the the caveat to that is always well you've you've got to own the system first and you can buy a system with ice but once you're an owner in the system that the the platform itself is you're paying more money you're paying you're paying like you know premium and le money up front for this system but then every every new development every new game after that you get the benefit from all owners get the benefit from well in the last year we announced bluetooth headphone support and everybody who's got a P3 got Bluetooth and USB headphone support. We announced head-to-head gameplay. That's a platform-right feature that anybody can design into any game, but everybody who had it could get the head-to-head gameplay.
    24:08
    And as these features keep coming out, the Twitch Connect feature, anybody who's got a P3 who wants to start a Twitch stream or whatever can put that in there and start generating interactions in the chat, which is good for your channel, and it's good for you making a little money on the side with encouraging people to spend bids for the higher power-ups, and the people who own it are in control of all those parameters.
    24:34
    Jesus Christ. That was a lot there. All right, hold on. I'm going to take a sip here. Let me try to focus on what the hell we just talked about.
    24:42
    Yeah, there was a lot going on in the chat here. In just like two minutes, you wrapped up everything that the P3 system is, the multivorific system is, some of the benefits of the system. We talked about the modular parts of the system. So you buy into the machine itself, but every game is a modular kit that you then can add to your machine. So in all, you are getting a cheaper pinball experience than buying every new machine that comes out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's very cool. And I always thought that was extremely cool. No, it is. Because when I hear you can buy Heist for $2,700 after you have the system, that's super appealing.
    25:28
    So what do you say to people that, you know, obviously the initial expense is what keeps some buyers away?
    25:37
    Yeah so when we first launched the P3 the P3 has a starting price about ten thousand dollars for the system and uh one game and there been occasionally deals that have gone along with that with multi-game discounts and stuff but um the market since that time has has come up with every every manufacturer has gotten they've they you know no tony all because it's it's expensive to make pinball machines, right? But the way we always talk about it is that it's a really good value at the end of the day, right? Because you get this system that's really good on maintenance and really good on – has all this technology packed into it. I mean, it's got a lot of stuff packed into it. And then from that point on, you know, but you see people online that have, like, you know, they buy two new box turns a year or two new box from another manufacturer, two or three manufacturers a year and stuff like that, you're saving money by the end of the day if you're buying two. Once you buy your second platform, you're saving money over two new box purchases, you know, basically in the market in most places. And so, you know, as an owner, like I've worked on the system and I've done all this stuff, but I've also been an owner of the machine for quite a while. And as an owner, it just is, it's just been really awesome every time one of these new features has come out. And you just go upstairs and it's not like you've got to buy the next title that comes out to get those features or whatever. Like, I can download them and start using those features right away on the machine. And if I want to, the model's different from the other companies in that, you know, you can buy, like Lexi was the first game, You can buy Heist today, and then you get more down the line. You can buy Lexi for a fraction of the cost of a regular game. Way down the line, at any point, most of these games don't ever go off the line. Like, we've got the ability to go back and buy these play fields anytime you want. And so, you know, right now there's four different play field modules all together. There's, like, six different – six or seven different software-only games that you can buy. and so just um like this this machine has like you know 10 games on it that i can that i can go through and play and it's got um it's got a real diverse set of gameplay rules like you're not having the same kind of games every time like heist is way different from cosmic kart racing which is way different from lexi and it's way different from you know kennel lagoon and so there's something for everybody in my family my kids love playing barnyard and uh rocks and uh They also like playing the more complicated games, but there's stuff in there that everybody in your family can get on board with really easy. Drew and I play rocks when we repair our machines, but that's a different type of game. So, yeah, we have a few questions here in chat. I wanted to throw this at you. Mike Williams, I know anyone can design a game, but how many people are there at P3 designing new games? um we've got uh we've got a team of people that are that are working on different things there's uh there's you know we've got like three or four it fluctuates between people most people are working part-time on these things that's why it takes a little longer sometimes to do this stuff but um you know we've got uh in multimorphic that we're in in-house there's you know uh there's you know, an engineering department, there's a software dev team, there's customer support, there's a bunch of different areas like this. But the one thing that I think is really cool about the platform is that there's a free dev kit that you can download. You can email Jerry or email support at Multimorphic and get this dev kit. And then you don't have to have a P3 physically to start playing around in Unity and building your own games. You're going to make game ideas, right? It helps if you've got one because then you can put it on the machine and test it out. But we've had people that have developed games, you know, without touching a P3 before. I mean, they've asked other people with P3s to test them out and stuff like that. But one of my favorite things that happened was GammaGoat in Harrow, Buffalo Pinball had a contest for their theme song, like performing their theme song. And he wrote a game where basically as you made the shots, it would sing the lines from the theme song. And so he made a game to play the theme song and went through. And so it had to finish with a double super jackpot with the side loop on ice. And he pulled that off in like two days or something like that. And so that kind of stuff I always get a kick out of. I love seeing what other people do with this platform.
    30:33
    Yeah. And Tony Squadero asks, can there be swap play fields between friends? And yes, the answer is yes. If you guys both have a P3 system and one guy has Heist and one guy has Lexi Lightspeed, you guys could just swap modules, right? I think so. There might be something that ties it to the machine. I've got to check with Jerry on that. Oh, so there might be some IP conflicts or something? Well, yeah, it might be like, you know, for you to work. We're stealing each other's shit. Pay for it.
    31:03
    Sorry. No, but in theory it should work, but you might need to, like, transfer the license or something like that or transfer something or other for the time period. Because you can sell it from one to another. You know, you've got to call support and say, okay, this is being used on this P3 now or whatever. So, yeah, it can happen. You can definitely do that. All right. So the next question, Chris Chandler. but does the p3 system have a pin bar it does not well so it doesn't have a pin bar chanley you're a dick by the way it doesn't have a pin bar the whole goddamn thing's a pin bar that's what's cool about it god damn it there's a lot of things yeah there's a lower the lower play field area is a ball tracking lcd screen so we and it extends below the flippers right so So the big thing that pinball we're saying is that they're moving it so you don't have to look at a back box to look at your display. Well, we've been doing that for years by putting what we call the PlayFill LCD underneath your flippers that has your scores and all your progress underneath your flippers. And the great thing about that screen is that it allows you to put up information super clearly about what you have to do in a pinball machine. and that's something like as a person who used to be in the pinball when i was a kid and really loving system 11 games and stuff like that i'd come up and i'd play these new machines and i couldn't tell like everything was flashing everything was lit i couldn't tell what you're supposed to shoot and i i've never heard anybody walk up to a p3 and be like i don't know what to do because it's right there in front of your face like every shot is if we can do dynamic shot markers we can make it real clear like this is what you've got to do you can do really uh involved instructions about things to simplify the experience for people when they walk up to the machine. And all the score information and stuff is right there where your eyes are. You can just glance down literally right, you know, millimeters below the flipper to see how you're doing. And we've also got the back box display, which also shows that content for everybody else that's watching for traditional pinball experience. So fucking cool. Tim Lee asked, can I modify the heist code? I know there is an SDK, but can I modify an existing game?
    33:28
    I don't think you've got – we don't open source the games. This is more technical stuff than I'm equipped to handle. I'm the idiot on the team. That's not true. You're a creative director.
    33:43
    I'm the idiot on our team. It's true. so they uh you what happens is like i don't think that the the code for heist is actually like open source that you can get in there and play with it but with the sdk comes with a with a pre-built like basic game kit so you can start off right away with with making the thing flip and doing some simple things and you can write your game for the heist play field just you know doing different things, but I don't think you would start with Heist and then go in there and manipulate the code.
    34:19
    Don't quote me on that, but I don't think that you're able to actually get into the actual code for those games. It's something that might happen in the future, but right now, I would talk to people like Yamagot and Nick Baldrivage.
    34:34
    Nick runs a couple of pin-side threads where he talks about the various games that he's done, and they can tell you about the development process on P3. I think Nick went from, like, idea to game in the store with Ranger in the Ruins in, like, 71 days or something, which is a one-man show, him working part-time and on the weekends, which just is amazing. So I'm not a programmer at all, so I don't know those things, but Unity is what we've built the software on, and it's something that a lot of mobile games and apps are built on.
    35:14
    I'm a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff, but I can poke around and figure out my way through Unity and figure out what you've got to do. It's definitely an inviting environment if you are a coder and want to play around with it. I'd call Gary and get the SDK. Yep, Tim Lee, go for it, brother. You can finally have your Transformer G1 if you spend enough time. Kanado will buy it from you. All right, Chris Chandler, are there global leaderboards that anyone can take a peek at? Are there global leaderboards for the P3?
    35:47
    That's something that's on the feature list that we always have had in mind whenever we're talking about the network features. But the priority has been if you're going to introduce Internet connectivity in a pinball machine, you want to do it in a way that's fun first and a way that is, you're going to get the most bang for your buck out of. So all the dev time has been put into making these games play against each other head to head first. And then, you know, stuff like leaderboards and stuff, you know, there's, there's apps and there's stuff out there you can do, but that's definitely on the, um, that's on the, that's something we plan to do, but we're not typically in the business of just publishing a list of stuff. We, you know, plan on doing, you know, we, we're publishing stuff that we have done. And so, and, uh, that list is growing longer every day. Are there, are there any more titles planned for this year and how many titles you anticipate for next year?
    36:47
    Um, I can't really comment on any. What's the development cycle like? How long does it take to make a game?
    36:57
    It's, I, I can't speak for any other company because I don't know what their, their system are like, But I can just say it took us about two years to develop Heist, and our original plan was to shoot for a year.
    37:11
    And it's just, you know, you've got to handle all the different aspects of it. The way we did it was when we first sat down and we started talking about layout and the layout and design phase of this. The reason I don't, you know, when we were talking about the title, we went with creative director instead of designer because the word designer like implies that you're the guy that that laid out every single track and everything else and everything about this this uh game was very much a team effort everybody was like when we were laying out everybody was pitching in ideas and we were picking the best ideas from everybody's to to come up with this play field that we uh put together um but you know we kind of laid out some some basic goals for the game I wanted to bring more physical interaction down the playfield and more physical floating components onto the playfield, because a lot of people think that the P3 is just the back third and you don't get any interaction down the playfield. The truth is that you can design anything you want on that lower playfield. You just got to rethink about it. The way we did that in Heist is that we created the upper flipper module that is backwards compatible with our old games. and we created a crane that can bring a ball out and dangle it over the play field. You can smack the crane. The crane can throw balls at you. And it's something that brings just a huge variety of short shots into the game at various times in the game, and it gets a lot of use in there. And then we got this real flowy layout to where in normal play circumstances you can get the ball moving pretty fast and go in every which way you want. But another benefit of the P3 is that we've got built into the basic platform are these eight vertical up kickers in the back that you can access any one of those to get balls from our infinity trough in the back and kick out a ton of balls. And so one thing we did was we made all those shots where we can grab a ball off the play field from any shot, kick it out any other place, you know. and so that process of getting it down just that probably took a couple of months and then the engineering guys worked with them while they were trying to make all these ideas come to work and become manufacturable and while the software guys took off and we started writing rules and then building assets and working with the artist for over a year trying to get all these assets into the game because that's one thing that i think everybody underestimates when you start putting these screens and pinball machines is that it takes a lot of time to build all those assets and to make all those items and sometimes i mean that's why absolutely i was gonna i'm interrupting you because because you need a your voice needs a break here i feel like you're gonna not be able to go into work and use your voice tomorrow so um so we have so we actually uh let's get into heist obviously um so we have all the pictures that you sent us so we have it kind of playing as a slideshow in the background and i have to tell you drew and i when we were on here we saw it for the first time uh love at first sight true absolutely yeah it was we saw that thing and we're like this is pinball because you know for a long time the big knock was well this isn't really pinball quote unquote and all this stuff right and you see this thing and you're like no this is a great pinball game with very cool mechs it's it's you know before i don't want to say i don't want to take anything away from all the hard work but i am going to say it um some of the earlier games and a lot of the games um they do seem like um you know like like you know kind of generic games they really do and and that my vocabulary has failed me terribly but that's all i can say but heist is the first one where it's like like i feel like we have a whole world here we have a story um and it interacts with the background and it tells this entire tale and i i love the mech i love the cityscape um i love just how this thing kind of pops i even like the the bar that goes across with uh i don't even know what do you call that steven the the bar that goes across the orange, green, blue, purple, red, orange. Yeah, that's the wall scoop assembly. So at any point in a playfell, we can pop a scoop up and catch the ball, and we can pop up a wall and block them all. Orbital Albert says, the crane is perhaps the coolest looking mech of all time. And, yes, very cool. It's functional, and it does more than one thing. Right. That's what's really neat about it because it doesn't just do one thing. Well, yeah, you're a last action hero guy. Oh, yeah. What did that fucking crane do besides wake up your neighbors? Yeah. Shaker motors going and everything. Oh, man.
    42:15
    You know, so, yeah, cranes have long been a part of pinball. There's obviously several games with a crane in it, even to this day with Batman 66. But this one does so much more than all of those. Yeah, it actually showed up and it said, no, you guys forgot how to be a crane.
    42:31
    I'm a transformer crane. I can do it all. This brain is extremely interactive. It's so cool. So, Stephen, let's go back to, let's start off with the actual game itself, the storyline. What's the story with Heist?
    42:46
    Who do you play as, or are you assembling a team? Tell us a little bit of the background of the story here.
    42:55
    Yeah, the story is basically you are assembling this team of, you know, the various criminals in this town. in this fictional town of Ocean City. And the big bad, the mark that you're going after is Frank Bigelow. And we call him Mr. Big in the game. But Frank Bigelow, he basically is this billionaire that came into town, bought up everything. He controls the entire city, like, on all the properties. You see, like, little big puns everywhere. So there's, like, there's a train station in the middle of the playfield that's called Grande Central Station. and there's like, you know, Bigelow Galleries. There's big savings and loan and stuff like that. So he's somebody who puts his name on everything. And so when we were coming up with the story, we were like, well, let's say, you know, you're the bad guys, but you're the good guys in the game. And so we wanted like all the crimes that are happening in the game, everything's targeted at Mr. Big's properties and his stuff and his money. So, like, the wheel man stealing his car and then the safecrackers robbing his bank. Streets of Rage meets Ocean's Eleven. Very, very cool. I like that idea. So, with this game and with the story and everything, the animation style is absolutely gorgeous. The overhead view of the city. Was that you? Did you do all the animation work on this?
    44:26
    Yeah, so I'm not the artist on it. We hired Jose Fernandez. He's a Houston-based artist. He does all the artwork for the Houston Arcade Expo every year. And he's an extremely talented guy. So I got him to do all the character art and all the people. But then I animated all. And when I was trying to think of what we're going to do in our home screen, our main mode, Apple TV has a screensaver where it's a camera just looking down at Manhattan at night. And I was like, that'd be cool. just have this cityscape coming at you, and it's kind of got an effect when the ball's rolling over it away from you. It feels like it's going faster, you know, as you're going over it. And then we can, that's kind of our framing mechanism. You're in Ocean City and playing in Ocean City, and every time you start one of these little missions or whatever, we pop up a mode window where you're in that world of, you know, whatever that character's doing, and you can see a close-up of, you know, them robbing a bank or the cat burglar is dangling over the lab and picking up all the, uh, the parts and everything. So it's, uh, but yeah, that's, uh, I did all the animations in it and,
    45:39
    that's a lot of assets that we have to come up with. So, yeah, I'm a, I'm a sucker for the cartoony type animations. So it's just like right up my alley, everything about it, you know, between the max and that and this and very, very cool. And we keep going back to the crane there. Yeah. you mentioned the assets um now for a bunch of novices like us we always like to talk about you know the benefits of having you know a license theme versus creating something original and then there's obviously a lot of negatives too meaning you know you have to create fucking everything if you don't have a license and if you did have a license you are basically at the whim of the license provider do you think jerry will ever get to that point where he wants to try a license theme um and would you like to work on a license theme is and if there is is there a license theme you'd like to work on multi-pronged question there pal lots of things going on oh good thing i don't like to talk uh yeah so i you're making my job easier so i love it jerry jerry's like from day one we've talked about different licenses and everything the The thing about Multimorphic is you understand when Multimorphic came up, that was the same time a lot of these other boutique companies were coming up and taking pre-order money and funding development with pre-order money, and that's something that Jerry never did from day one. That's one reason why I latched on and started working with him from the beginning because he's like, I will never use a dime of pre-order money to pay for the development of that machine. That money is, if it's there, it's in a bank account that's waiting to buy parts for your machine so it can get built, right? So this company is like the very definition of a bootstrapped company to where we've been doing everything on our own dime, developing everything on our own dime, not being funded by customer money. And it's played out historically that that was a really bad idea. And a lot of people lost a lot of money at different companies going that route, right? So the trade-off of that has been you have limited funds. You've got to figure out how to spend them, right? Right. When the first game that came out, Lexi Lightspeed, a lot of people don't know this, but Lexi Lightspeed was designed by Dennis Norton. He came up with the story, and he came up with the play field design. He came up with that cool nine-ball physical ball lock in the ship. And then that's where the money was spent at the beginning of Lexi Lightspeed, and then they went in and they built out the rest of the game and the story around that, right? And so the focus of the company in the beginning has been about this is a multi-game platform, a multi-game system. It's not going to be showing as promised if, like, everything's put into, like, this one title at the beginning. Right now, because of the way we've gone with non-licensed themes, original themes, we've been able to create four different play fields that people who are buying the system now have the option of buying four different games for their system, plus all the mini games and software-only games that come along with it. And we've shown basically what the platform can do. In the future, of course, we're looking at licensed teams. We'd love to work on licensed teams, and we'd love to get those things going. I won't really comment on any of the ones that I'd like to do because if you say a license out loud, that has a habit of getting snatched up by somebody else. So I don't want to do that. Futurama. I will say that, yeah, we'd like to do it. You know, I think Futurama would be a fun game. And it's taken. But now that you said it, I'm probably sure that nobody will get to do it. And it's gone. It's gone. Sorry, Steven.
    49:36
    All right. So very cool. Very cool. We did have some interesting conversations here on chat. Well, like ones pertaining to what we're talking about. All right. Lots of interesting shit, but nothing to do with pinball. So, like usual, Stephen Silver, we miss you in chat. You're usually pretty good leading these monkeys all over the place.
    49:57
    All right. So let's see what we got. You listeners are degenerates. I don't know why we hang out with you. We love you all.
    50:04
    So, Jonathan Hall. They let the degenerates on the air, though. Yes. So Jonathan Hall, this is a question that's kind of just kind of been brought up this week in the pinball media, and we might as well just kind of bring it here. Are we bringing back the direct-to-customer versus distributor conversation for this? Would be interested in what he has to say about it. Not the prepay model, but the direct-to-customer model. So I know this is probably outside of your wheelhouse. This is probably more of a Jerry question, but do you have an opinion regarding distributorship versus direct-to-customers? Have you guys seen a big boom with distributors versus people that want to order direct from you? Hello, Sean.
    50:54
    I would just, yeah, those kind of distributor questions, that's completely outside of my wheelhouse. That's all Jerry. That's the business side of things that I don't have any control over. So the answer is yes. I will say that there's a lot of different times whenever both models make sense, both models have their place, and it's just, as a company, you just got to figure out the right mix of how you do that All right No worries brother No worries We have to ask the question because a lot of it coming up this week Yeah there been a lot of talk about the different models which is fine Whatever. I have no opinion because I don't buy pinball machines.
    51:36
    Let's see. Rachel, if I could buy brand new, I would buy direct. Well, yeah. I mean, I think there's pluses and minuses for both, right? So.
    51:46
    All right. Some people have great relationships with their distributor, and they want to go to their distributor and work that out. So like you said, there's pros and cons. There's always tradeoffs in everything that you do, and you just got to try to find the right mix. All right. So back to Heist. So how has Heist been for Jerry and you guys? Has it been kind of a mover considering COVID and everything? Or how do you feel like the sales have been so far for the machine?
    52:24
    Yeah, I mean, it's been going well. It's been selling at a steady pace. It's been good. The one thing that we've noticed and that we've braced for is every time a new paint comes out, you always have people that are loving it right away, but you always have a big mix of opinions. And we've seen, like, people who are getting this game and getting in their houses, they absolutely love it. And we just keep hearing, like, people who have actually gotten a chance to put their hands on it have nothing but good things to say about it. And so we're extremely proud of that and extremely happy. And that's something that, you know, you just don't see on any game. Like, somebody gets it and, like, goes and tears it up on Pinside or says some terrible things about it. Two separate questions. Not on Pinside. No. Two separate questions just came in, Steven. How does the screen hold up over time, and are there coin mechs with all the games?
    53:17
    Yeah, every game has coin mechs, and the screen actually has a plastic layer that's on top of the screen. So the way we do our ball tracking is that there's an IR grid that's over that play field, and the plastic is actually in between the screen. And so when you have to, Ian Harrow had a picture, he's like the best cleaning experience at pinball. You just open it up, you slide out that piece of plastic, and if anything happened to it, you could go down to your hardware store and buy a new piece of plastic, get it cut, and slide it back in.
    53:50
    But you just pull it out, and you clean it, and you put it back in. The ball never touches the actual television screen itself, the video screen itself. It's rolling around on that Lexan. And is that like a standard kind of replacement LCD or is that very specialized? Yeah. No, everything in this machine is off the shelf parts. Right. I mean, besides the like and I, you know, we custom design. We didn't go find a crane somewhere. We custom design that thing. But sure. All these things are, you know, the from the the everything in this machine is stuff that you could go. You can get pretty easily. So let's say at some point, for some reason, there's a screen technology upgrade that we want to do. The one thing that's awesome about this machine is that everything, when we talk about it being modular, literally everything in this machine is modular. I can pop it open, and you can pull out the flipper modules. You unplug one cable. You pull out the flipper modules. The motto of the company is kind of like you take your machine to your soldering iron. You don't take your soldering iron to the machine. So you can – everything in there is on rails. So you can unplug the monitor, slide it out, replace it, slide a new one in. You can, you know, some things take a little bit longer than others, but the entire platform is really, really, really well engineered. And that's entirely on Jerry and Les and TJ that did that. Those guys are absolute geniuses when it came to how well put together this machine is and how well thought out everything is. Sounds like a goddamn transformer. I love it. so I'm looking at some of your games back there so you had a Data East, Star Wars I think that's a Whitewater and a World Cup Soccer am I right?
    55:32
    and of course the Multimorphic so out of those which one's the hardest machine to maintain? well I've tried to go through and do a full shop job on Whitewater and I didn't get down to tearing off that upper plate I think that Whitewater is really hard to get down and get to some of that harder-to-reach stuff. So, yeah, Whitewater. I've played that game. That was not a fun teardown at all, Whitewater.
    56:00
    All right, very cool. So out of those four games, what gets the most love? It sounds like the Multimorphic because the whole family is loving that one, huh?
    56:07
    Yeah, but what else am I going to say? Like, seriously. It was a trick question. I'm just trying to sell it for you. All right, take Multimorphic out of it. Of the other three, what gets the most play? All right, there you go. For me, personally, I love whitewater, but I've got a skateball over here in the corner, and I love those single-level ballets from the 80s. So I've got that. Skateball is one of my favorites. I can go up to skateball all day long, and I really love World Cup soccer because I really like approachable games and games that are easy to understand and things like that. Goal! Yeah. Goal! Yeah. That's all I knew, and it's fun. Every time you hit a goal, it's great.
    56:52
    World Cup soccer is one of those games where I've been at bars and I've been at clubs and I've seen people that are obviously there with somebody who's into pinball and they don't know anything about pinball. And I see them just shooting unlit goals all day long and getting real excited every single time they do it. And they're not scoring any points about it or anything, but that mech, that thing, is so simple, it's so easy to understand what the thing is. and when the guy starts moving and they get it in there, people just get really excited about it. You feel you did something. I love that kind of stuff. I love when my daughter's friends can come over and do all that. But with my kids, they all like Star Wars because of the license. They like going in. They're like, I recognize the robots.
    57:34
    So what's next for Multimorphic? Are you working on another game? You don't have to tell us what game it is, but are you on to the next project? well I'm right now finishing up heists we're working on the wizard mode the whole idea with the game is that you're going through the story getting your crew together you can do these mini heists the mastermind modes where you go and you do these heists but then it's all supposed to build to the big final heist at the end where you're going through and really taking it to Mr. Big So I'm working on that. But then, yeah, there's a couple other projects in the works that everybody's involved in, and that's pretty much all I can say about that. And there's always, always, always a new idea for the technology that's coming along. So we just got a couple of comments about Skateball, Stephen, that Keith Elwin has gone on record saying Skateball is the only game he's kept in his collection.
    58:38
    And Tony Hawk, this is all from Orbital Albert, Tony Hawk, it's the only game he owns. So the greatest of all time owns Skateball. So you must be the greatest of all time at your craft. Yes, that's how it works. Skateball is the key. Yes. I don't own a Skateball. I'm sucking at everything. We suck at everything. I need to get myself a Skateball, brother.
    59:03
    I'll tell you what. God, I love that game. I played it the first time at TPF like eight years ago, and I was looking for mine forever. And then I finally got a player one, but I just, you know, just those single level, that's the game that really made me start loving those old ballets. And I'd love to get a Fathom, but, you know, that's unobtainium these days. It's way too much for what it is. But, yeah, Fathom and Skateball. Skateball is great. It's a good player. We play it at MGC. There's a guy around, I don't know, he always takes that Skateball, that really souped up Skateball around. Oh, the skateboard on top. Yeah, he glued a bunch of skateboards on it and won a bunch of awards. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, very cool. All right, well, Stephen, I think that will wrap up the interview, though. But do you want to say anything else, any final parting words of wisdom to everybody?
    59:54
    Well, I just say, you know, people always want to talk about, you know, everybody's excited about the next new license theme or something that comes out. I just want to say that if you've seen pictures of the P3 and you've seen different things and you weren't drawn to it because you didn't understand what Lexi was or what Cosmic Car Racing was and everything, get a chance to get your hands on it and play it. If a distributor's got one, you want to go check it out at their place. We had an online head-to-head at a distributor's party the other day, and it was a blast. Everybody was going back and forth and trading places and stuff like that. So I would say check out Cosmic Kart Racing again. Check out Lexi Lightspeed again. Lexi, I think, is a criminally underrated game just because most people just look at it and they don't give it a chance to go up and play it and see.
    60:45
    It was kind of the game that first went through everything you could do technically on the game and make it happen. And I would say really give the platform a look and a chance, and I hope you all get a chance to play Heist at some point. I really, really hope we're able to start playing pinball again. and we're able to get these things out there so people can check it out. And whatever gateway you get into the P3, it's a great experience as an owner, and we're extremely proud of Heist, and we'd love you to check it out. And then once you're into the platform, you get the benefit every time these new developments come out, these new features come out, and these new games come out. And from that point on, it's just no-brainer purchases. Like, it's a no-brainer. It's a $150 new game that is a really awesome party game that somebody made, a third party made. You're going to buy that and put it on your machine and add it to your library. And that's the idea at the end of the day is that people are building up these libraries of games. Yes, and it seems to only be getting better. So very cool. I know Drew and I are going to seek one out, definitely. Oh, for sure. And, Stephen, you're going to help us with that. We'll talk about that later.
    61:56
    But we are definitely, that's on the plan. Futurama, take my money. take my money yep but again thank you Stephen for spending some time with us and Stephen this was great I really appreciate it shedding some more light on multi-morphic because it just doesn't get enough air time I think and we were happy to do it and I apologize for all the buttholes in chat we were very star struck when you offered to help us with our animations I was like oh shit the dude from ice is going to actually help us a real professional and he knocked those animations out in like a day because he's a fucking stud yeah ian goes ian goes steven's good no seriously no i want to tell everyone this uh ian said steven's gonna help us with these uh animations i'm like oh that's awesome and then like you know maybe we'll have them in a couple of weeks and like a day or two later he's like here's your animations he was like they were fun and i never thought i'd have to write out a whole description on cheese slices before this is what we want yeah these are the cheese slices we need drew's issues in his life but uh we really are not artisanally yellow enough yes yes yes but uh thank you very much steven for the time uh we really appreciate it and thank you for being such a good friend and uh um people if you are out there and you have a multi-morphic to try i highly suggest it and uh drew and i are also We're going to try our best to get our hands on one and play the hell out of it. We'll go visit Gamma Goat up in Canada. And Ian Howard, tribe member number whatever. He's mean anyway. I don't care. Four or five.
    63:34
    Ian's mean to us anyway. Ian, how come you're not even here tonight? We love you, Ian. All right. Well, thank you, Stephen, again, and have a good night, okay?
    63:41
    All right. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot, Stephen. All right. Thank you. All right. So, everybody, that was Stephen. That was Stephen. That was a great interview. Yeah, you know, it was a good shot trying to do an interview that – here, we'll hide Stephen's face there. All right, there we go.
    64:01
    You know, it was an experiment to see if we can get an interview working in this kind of format. I thought it did all right. What did you guys think about it? And, Dr. John, you resemble that remark? I think you meant you resent that remark. I don't take it back. You guys are buttholes. You guys in chat. You fucking sophomore people, man. I'm telling you. I'm trying to be serious. You know, we have this rule. I'm just trying to listen. I'm focused. People are writing code for Drew's nipples? What is going on out there? Oh, there are now three links in there about Drew's nipples. Oh, my God. There's a Twitter page now, Drew's fans of nipples or something. I'm pretty sure everyone is a fan of Drew today. I didn't see one positive thing about me this whole night. It was all about Drew and his beautiful red face and his shiny nipples. Or what the fuck, Jesse J. might have a little crush back on you, Drew. That works out okay. It's a love, star-crossed lovers from across the planet. What does my wife always say? She can have you.
    65:01
    That's my wife's favorite line. She loves me. Jesse J., honestly, did either of you expect anything else from us? Nope. You guys delivered. Yeah, it was great. No, this is what we... Oh, John. No, we resemble buttholes. Yeah, you do, Dr. John. Mike Williams, I think it went really great. I did too, Mike. Good job, buttholes. Thanks. No, seriously, it was fun. I thought it was great when we were doing all the quiet stuff while Steven Silver was talking. Yes, yes. Because we're really paying attention, and then it's just like, oh, okay, we're going to play this game now where we're going to try to not laugh. Try not? And just do ridiculous things. And then they would point it out. Look at him try to read it and not laugh. It was tough, but that was fun. I'm telling you. Jesse J's polygamy a thing in Wisconsin? I don't know. Let's ask my wife. Let's make this a thing. Do you see this picture? Jonathan Hall, that's a great picture, by the way, buddy. We're going to. Oh.
    66:00
    That's going on our main page. Jonathan Hall. That is awesome. Yeah, we're going to have to share that one, Jonathan Hall. Oh, my God.
    66:09
    Oh, too good. So the multi-morphic, let's talk a little bit about that, Drew. Do you want to talk a little bit more? Do you want to talk going to country? Steven Silver, hi, buttholes. Thanks for listening to me ramble. Steven Silver, you did great, man. We really appreciate you coming on. Oh, absolutely, dude. Thank you so much. That was cool. Very fun.
    66:26
    Yeah, but what do you want to do, Drew? Do you want to talk about what's been going on this week? Yeah, yeah, we can. Okay, all right. Lots of GNR stuff, obviously. Yeah, yeah. I heard, so I was listening to the pinball show, and Dennis Creasel had a very interesting take on Guns N' Roses. He's like, the game looks great. Like, nobody has said the game doesn't look good, right? Right. The game just looks great. Yeah. Everyone can agree there.
    66:56
    He said it looked a little easy. How does he figure that? Well, he watched some of the stream. more than i did it's very multi-ball heavy so you know the the whole game even like canada i'll say they they focused on integration they focused on the av uh audio the show yeah exactly making a concert in the game which which they did a bang up knock it out of the park job with right and then i was thinking about it and tim lee tim lee has switched his position now he might not be getting avengers i think he's getting a guns and roses so he's the first person i know that said you know i'm in on avengers and now maybe it's gnr which i'm sure there's other people out there like that right um but well he had a good point to uh i don't know it was a couple days ago on the poor man's pinball fan page uh he asked why he couldn't like both games you know how people get Yeah, I saw that.
    68:00
    I mean, that goes back to, you know, we experienced that when we were playing Oktoberfest, Black Knight, and Willy Wonka. Who had that good response to that? Was that Billy YJ or was that Jonathan Hall? I'm not sure. I think it was one of them. I don't know what you're talking about. Sorry, but one of them responded to that saying, yeah, people have such an affinity for certain brands that they won't even take notice of a good game, basically. Oh, that was me. No, it wasn't you. Shit. You know what I mean? I said something similar to that. But it kind of made sense. Because it's like some people are such stern fanboys that they're like, oh, this JJP crap. The stern army. Yeah.
    68:38
    Sorry, they're kind of cocksuckers. A little bit. I just think that, you know me. Love all pinball. I am a stern fanboy, but I'm like, yeah, if it's a good pinball game, it's a fucking good pinball game. You're a stern fanboy that's owned a JJP game. Yep. That's owned a Williams game. State of the East game. Yep. I've owned them all. Spooky games. Yep, yep. You're a pinball fan, dude. Yes, exactly. And I just like to have fun with them. And this whole thing about people just getting bent out of shape, it drives me nuts. It just drives me nuts. But anyways, back to the Dennis thing. I think it was a very fair assessment because he did give it a lot of high marks for different things. Right. And then he said, well, it's multi-ball heavy. I'm not really into that, which is fine. it looked like it was a easier shooter yeah which it might be which it's approachable which is cool sure sure so for the families and stuff out there i think it'll be a good game yeah i mean so i i think it's a home run still yeah me too um me too so uh here yeah dr john i own stern jjp and spooky are all different it makes them great yes you're absolutely right it's basically canada that's bent out of shape about oktoberfest says jonathan hall yeah yeah no i think when we were dealing with it was more or less wanka versus black knight and you know the stern people were talking about how great black knight was and how terrible wanka was but they couldn't even they couldn't even bring it to themselves to say that wanka was a good game like design wise and everything sure and it was so ridiculous like like they were so they got so defensive over black knight and so dismissive of Wonka almost made me automatically hate Black Knight even more just because, you know, fuck these guys. These guys are ridiculous. You know, you can't even acknowledge that Wonka's a good game. Sure. It's a great game. It is a good game.
    70:34
    Orbital Albert, I am a Stern and Spooky and JJP fanboy, but ballets are overrated. What? Coming from you, Orby? Yes. Orby? Some of them are, I guess. Orby. Well, kind of what we were talking about, like the fathoms of the world. A lot of, yes. A lot, yes. Some of the single-level games, they're beautiful, but they might not be great pinball games. I don't know. I mean, obviously it's all subjective. Rachel, you're right. I don't get why people can't just be like, hey, cool game. Did you see the new thing? Are we in high school, Rachel? Totally. Yes, we are, because we're fixated on Drew's nipples. Yeah, well, some of you fuckers are. I don't know. But I hope you're not. Everyone has to be over 18 to listen to this crap. But yeah, no, I agree with you 100%, Rachel. It should be something like, hey, doesn't that look cool? Yeah. Doesn't that look cool? Yeah. And I think I've gotten better over the past year when we do this show to communicate that, all right, maybe a game isn't really for me. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad game. It just might not be for me. But I'm sure there's a bunch of people out there that love that game. I'm frigging kidding. Are you high? Bally's are the best. There we go. That's the Orby I know. Yeah, Orby. I love all Bally's. They're awesome. Or be him saying a negative thing about pinball in like 328 episodes or whatever he's on. So just to that point, quickly, I play LaserCue more than I play Simpsons. Does that mean, you know what I mean? I love looking at Simpsons. I love it. It's a great game. I play it, certainly. Yeah. But LaserCue is an old Williams game from 1984. Sure. And it's just fun, you know? So that's what I mean. People are just so... Have some fun. Have some fun in your life. People are upset that Kaneda likes Guns N' Roses so much. Yeah, I get it. He's loud. He has a voice out there, and it just doesn't seem to want to turn off anytime soon. It's constant. No, it is. He's gone to a whole other level by Kaneda. But, hey, man, I'm letting him go. I'm not going to criticize him. I love the guy. Live and let die.
    72:40
    Live and let die. um sorry i need one bad joke sweet joke um no but here here's an here's an interesting uh point for fodder do we think guns and roses might win oh sorry guys sorry sorry sorry okay um we're talking about potential game of the year for the trippies yeah yeah so the roses turtles avengers yeah um What did Stern come out with this year? Turtles? Well, Stranger Things is in there. Stranger Things. They're not going to win. Turtles. Yeah. Avengers. Those are the three cornerstones. We'll probably get a fourth one at the end of the year. Yeah, probably. Or Led Zeppelin or Queen, it sounds like. Maybe not. So what do you pick then?
    73:27
    Oh, sorry. Sorry, Spooky Pinball. Rick and Morty. Yeah. Of course. Rick and Morty's in there. Funny enough, I have not played a Rick and Morty. I have not played a turtles I have not played Guns and Roses I have not played Avengers Location pinball is all dried up by us It is But your best friend has a turtles Is it still there? Yes You suck I have to go there and play turtles Ian never comes to visit me anymore I work Fuck you What do you think I do? Sit at home and jerk off? From like 9 until about 11, yes. Yes, that's what you do.
    74:14
    I have no dispute to that. What do you want me to say? You're wrong? No. That's my jerk-off time. What do you want? Jesus. God, you're a marathoner.
    74:25
    I didn't say it's a full two hours. That's just my block of time. Eric Rand Walker, GNR wins best light show. No way GNR wins.
    74:34
    Hold on. We've got to go back here. What a jerk. Dump him, Drew, says Rachel. You're right. Oh, come on, Rachel. What did I do? He's a bad hetero life partner right now. What did I do? What was so bad? Come visit me. Oh, sorry. I'm going to say this now because this is perfect timing for this. My wife invited him over for a fire we had on Friday night. Tribe member Eric Braden Walker and his wife came over, and Ian didn't come over, and then my wife just called him a pussy. Yeah. And she wanted to make sure I told everyone that she called him a pussy. Yeah, she did.
    75:09
    I'm sorry I stopped being a pussy because I want to spend time with my daughter and wife. They were invited, too. She goes to bed at 8. What kind of bonfire? Oh, it's dark out. We got to go. How does that work? Fucking bonfire.
    75:22
    Motherfucker. All right. Anyways, no, seriously. So we're getting some good feedback here. So, yeah, TMNT. GNR wins Best Light Show, obviously. yeah oh hands hands down i mean you can't even uh tim lee no way gnr wins it more stern fans rachel you you would love mrs drew she's uh she's a firecracker for sure she doesn't hold are we going on for another 10 minutes oh fuck yeah jonathan we're not done yeah i got i gotta pee here soon so we might have to take we'll do a cocktail break yeah um tmnt best art tim lee you know tmnt is up there i mean i it's good art i was playing a couple games before I got here today. And so Ian was, um, I don't want to say give me shit. Ian was commenting to me earlier this week that when I talk about turtles, I don't get as excited and he was right. But part, it has nothing to do with the game. So here's, here's what I learned today. Um, my job sucks. Everyone knows that. Well, maybe you don't, but now you do. Uh, I've, I've been really stressed out working a lot i haven't been playing nearly as much pinball as i did a few months ago so today i get on there i play a few games i blow it up i'm in love with the thing it's fast it's flowy it is because ian's like well you think it's an ass kicker and stuff which is cool and it is it is a brutal ass kicker but um very very good and uh uh yeah it's gonna stick around a while so scat vote um how do you vote if you won likely see those three of those choices in person you right that that kind of my point that is well that the thing guns and roses they gonna sell a lot I don know if a lot of them are going to hit locations People are going to play them That the thing too That was, let me see here. Game of the Year will be, Ian's teeth are brighter than my future. Yeah, Jesse J. He's got some bright teeth. I got some yellow teeth.
    77:21
    John Cass, Dr. John said, this is his point, and it's kind of what I was alluding to. It depends on how many people get access to the games to vote for him. Dr. John, we can't tell when you're sitting down if you're still excited.
    77:34
    Jesus, you can't see his pants? He's got pants on, kids. I've seen them. I've also seen the bulge. He's sitting next to Ian, so he must be excited. Every day. Every day, Therese. Every day. Oh, you're such a fucking wonderful man. All right, so Ian came to Drew's house on Saturday night to play Turtles. It's fun. Fuck you, Eric. I was busy. All right, nice stamina, Drew. TMNT, Friday night, GNR. Are penis calluses a real thing?
    78:08
    Depends. I'll tell a funny story since you're a doctor. So my brother, who is a little bit on the troublesome side, he's a pain in the ass, really.
    78:19
    Slightly a delinquent. Totally a delinquent. He came. We were at a bar. It was me, my brother, and my father. And we're sitting there at the bar, and we're shooting the shit. We get a few pitchers of beer in, and before we know it, the conversation gets loosey-goosey, and we're just sharing random personal shit, just man stuff, man talk. And my brother out of nowhere says, don't you hate it when you get zits on your dick? And my dad and I looked at each other, and then we looked at him, and we were like, I don't think those are zits, buddy. I don't think you get pimples on your dick, dude. I'm pretty sure that's an STD. You should probably go get that checked out. Yeah.
    79:06
    But, yeah, that was always something. Let's show Ian some love. Thanks, Tish. I appreciate it. I love Mrs. Drew. Yep, I'm behind.
    79:15
    Let's see. Let's keep going. All right. Should we take? This story is not going to end well. It never does, or we. All right, we're going to take a cocktail break. We're going to refresh. Drew's got to piss. But we do want to come back and shoot this shit some more. It's only 9.53 here. Yeah, we'll have some fun for a while. We've got some time. And I also want to plug a tribe member's tourney. So I have some things to do. All right? So let us go into our cocktail break. We'll see you in a bit.
    79:56
    This is Jurassic Park. All right, we're back, and there's cheese slices. Drew and I were just trying to figure out life in general while you guys were sitting there. All right, so let me get these things on. Apparently I'm typing a bunch of Fs.
    80:18
    What the hell was that? My headphones were on there. Oh, that's great. Valentine's Day all over again? No, not Tim Lee. It's just me and Ian this time.
    80:29
    It's, yeah. Oh, did Tish leave us? Crap, the bar here is closing. Got to go home. I love that she listens to us at the bar. All right, so, well, this was actually going to be for Tish. I wanted to talk about she has a tournament with a fellow tribe member. um let me pull this up here because she's so sweet tish always messages me she's like the coolest so we have frieden who is also a member a tribe member and they have do we have the tribe member list here so those are the updated oh it's not totally updated because uh um brian cosman cosman in there yep um number 34 so that that is the tribe list plus brian cosner welcome brian um so what else man i'm trying to figure out where this okay so trying to understand exactly what true tish wanted us to if y'all give mine and freedom's attorney a podcast shot so i'm assuming what it is they're doing a virtual battles of the bells bells and chimes columbus pinball expo and pinball super friends are bringing you an amazing tournament hosted by the rad ladies of hot nudge um so essentially it's going to be uh thursday evening do you say hot nudge that's what it says here dude that sounds it sounds like a whole lot of things um it sounds like something personal to be honest. Frieden, if you're on here, help us out here.
    82:16
    So if you aren't a woman, register for the Rad Babes and you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to share this on our Poor Man's Pinball Podcast page, but it sounds like it's a virtual tourney for the Bells and Chimes ladies. So I think that would be freaking awesome. So if you guys want to see how it's really done, let me see share to a group jesse j we think it's the virtual bells and chimes tourney but we're not sure we will share it on the page hot nudge our rad jesse j yes it is all very all right so all right so that's what i'm going to do i'm going to share it um because unfortunately fish didn't send me all the information but i will get that to you guys so uh please take a look at that when we do share it on the page so um i'm gonna get my beer here sure what do you want to talk about brother we got all night man all night we do and we have over 400 comments and 300 of them were about my nipples fuckers are writing code about your nipples i think tim lee had a string code on there for your nipples hey that's okay i like when tim lee gets out of his comfort zone and starts getting crazy with us tim lee you still on there is he gone maybe he's he's there all right Tim, I know you're there. So Guns N' Roses thoughts, have they changed at all? I listened to the Canadas podcast today, actually.
    83:46
    That's the first pinball podcast I've listened to in the last three weeks. Yeah, so when I listened to Zach and Dennis talk about it, and I talked to Tim Lee, who played it. Tim Lee went with his family to the local, I think it was Helicon Brewery, I think it's called. but they played Avengers and they played Guns and Roses and he's like dude I think I'm getting Guns and Roses good for him yeah awesome for him so I think Jesse J is still typing code for Drew's nipples Jesse J you know anymore this shit it's going to be sexual harassment Jesse J so watch yourself I love sexual harassment I'm not saying it's a bad thing Drew wants to be harassed Look how red his face gets every time you mention it. Well, to be fair, my face is red all the time. It gets redder when Jesse Jayden types something to you. So anyways.
    84:44
    It's ridiculous. I think everyone keeps talking about the theme integration. And like you said, it's a concert. If you're into rock music, everyone knows the music. I think the music is almost universally loved for the most part.
    85:03
    Yeah, it's like everyone likes Guns N' Roses. Yes. But nobody's a diehard fan of Guns N' Roses. Sure, sure. But they have 21 tracks. They're universal. Yes, exactly. It's one of those things, if the song starts playing, people start singing along. Oh, everyone knows the song. Correct. I get it. So I don't know. I think it's worth a look. Unless you're Ari Jones or Chris Koulouris. Sure. there's a couple outliers out there that say this game is definitely not for me um i'm reserving judgment okay like i said i'm i'm growing as a pinball person and i'm like i'm not gonna jump on the newest shiny but with that being said it looks really fucking great there you go so i don't know yeah no um listen to the canadus podcast he talked a little bit about it he had a good point Sorry, Dr. John, everyone knows about two songs. No, I know like three. Yeah. You got Paradise City. You got Sweet Child of Mine. What else that everyone knows? So, Tim Lee, how was Chris Franchi? I know you met him. That was probably the, yeah, it was the most awkward photo I've ever seen. Two gentlemen. Guys, I love both of you. Both of you guys. Grab each other by the ass or something. Have a little fun. That's the thing. If it was Ian and I, we'd be like embracing in a big bear hug. Well, we did that with Todd Tuckey, and they never shared the video. Oh, yeah, that's right. We got me, Ian, and Todd Tuckey all in a picture at Expo. I think we were trying to kiss Todd Tuckey. It got weird. And then they were filming, and then I thought we'd for sure make the reel. Didn't make the TNC reel. Well, the first time we saw Chris Franchi, we met him in person and gave him a big old bear hug. Of course we did. We waited for the bear hug. He's an impressive man in person. He is impressive. Chris Franchi, you might see pictures of him. He's really tall. He's probably, what, like 6'4"? I mean, he's a tall dude, and he's beefy. Yeah, he's... He's like me if I was, like, tall.
    86:58
    Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, that was an awkward, but how was... Great dude. Yeah, Tim Lee, I would agree. Chris Franchi was super fucking cool when we met him. One of my favorites. So, listening to Canadianist Podcast, he had a good point, and I know some of you are like, oh, blah, blah, blah. he's been crazy lately oh yeah welcome to the jungle sorry rachel i forgot their biggest hit of all time yeah um so but he did mention that you know and and this was pretty cool and level-headed of him but he said um you know regarding people bitching about oh which one's better avengers or guns and roses well he's like like them both he's like but they're totally different games you're talking about a avengers game by fucking keith ellen the master of of flow the new master of flow sorry steve ritchie um you know he can design that he said he could design these kind of games in his sleep you know he he his you know avengers is going to be fast as shit it's going to be super fun it's going to be kinetic um guns and roses isn't going to be that game it just won't be i i A light bulb just went off in my head. Yes, for just a pure pinball fan, Avengers is probably better. Yeah. Because it has more shots. It has a couple of... I don't know if it has more shots, but it's definitely faster. Yeah, it's faster. If you like the speed of pinball. Speed, flow. It's got a couple of really cool mechs with the lock on them. Because you know he designs that shit just to fucking rock and roll. Let's get crazy. yeah um eric i thought took guns and roses and pinball in a whole nother took it to another level he took he took games like twilight zone and updated it and made it again a spectacle you know pinball a spectacle if if you're going it's a goddamn work of art they're both amazing games oh absolutely you go into canada's point it was the same they were both amazing games you just um it's just they're different games and so if you're different and tim lee you've played both um what do you say uh tim lee gnr is just fun hardcore competitive players probably aren't going to look at it uh avengers is a player's game yeah and that's kind of what canada was saying and i don't even think he's played in avengers but um but by the look of it the streams absolutely i would agree with him 100 and i think that's a great that's a great take tim lee and for Chris as well. Hi, Tish. Tish is back. Oh, hey. Hey, Tish, could you do us a favor and help us out? We were trying to promote your tournament. Is this the online Bells and Chimes tourney? Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Sorry. Okay, go ahead. No, no. So he also... That's all I really wanted to say. And then, Tish, I'm going to share it with the Poor Man's Pinball podcast page. But anyway, so back to Kaneda's. That was kind of his take. I thought it was a really good, strong take, and that's kind of how I'm going to probably approach it once I play these games. But I'm really thinking that I'm probably going to enjoy both, you know, for different reasons. Yeah. I think, you know, I'm a comic book nerd. Avengers appeals to that for me, you know, because I'm a pinball and comic nerd. So you kind of put those together. I'm like, I'm a nerd. yeah nerd but then on the other hand you don't look like a nerd you're so beefy jesse j are you jealous now but guns and roses appeals to that i like you know the rock music and i like the you know the loud sounds and the high energy and the multi-ball see i fuck multi-balls all day great I'm into multiple balls. Yeah. So here's another one. You can't lose. You could literally flip a coin, pick one, and you'd be fine. Yeah. I mean, I guess for me personally, the speed and flow of Avengers is fun. I like that idea. Again, not really my theme. If I was going to choose between the two, I would – if I had a quarter and I had one quarter left. You couldn't play either one. I couldn't play either one.
    91:36
    But if they were set to 25 cent, maybe it was like 75% off night. It was 1990. Okay, go ahead. Ian's living in the past. I would play GNR. Sure. I would love to experience it because I'm an experienced kind of guy. I'm a good pinball player. I'm not the greatest. I'm not even fucking remotely above average. I'm just good. But hang on. And I like to do it. There's one more thing to consider with these two.
    92:05
    So if you are price conscious, like us, at the Poor Man Spinball Podcast, poormanspinball.gmail.com. That was our only professional take for the whole day. That was it, kids.
    92:19
    We sounded good. Just a bit outside. So you have $7,000, right? Mm-hmm. You can, well, and it costs a little more for the premium, but you could either get, say you could get a used premium Avengers, or you could get a new Guns N' Roses standard. Now I might take pause and probably go with the Avengers. Does that make sense? No, say it again. Okay. Slower. So the Avengers premium. Which is how much? Well, it's $7,600, but when it's sold used, it'll probably be about $7,000, give or take, right? $6,800, that's what used premiums go for. or Guns N' Roses. You're talking about new Guns N' Roses? Yep, standard.
    93:05
    No upper play field. You're missing some of the bells and whistles. I'd still go Guns N' Roses, but that's just me. Okay. But you're a comic book guy. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. That would make me, because if I'm going to go Guns N' Roses, I'm going with the LE. To Dan's point, you had $9,500 in your wallet. Yes. Which one are you going with? Correct. Now you're talking Avengers LE or Guns N' Roses LE, and I'm probably going Guns N' Roses. Right. Exactly. But that's $3,000 more than I'd be spending on a premium.
    93:36
    Math. Whatever. Yeah, math. Fucking. Yeah, money. I got a quarter. I just want to play one game and I can't.
    93:44
    Can I get a shot and a beer for a quarter? You would have to sell like 10 Oktoberfest to buy Guns N' Roses. Man. I'm just fucking with you. Well, the way that price is dropping. Oh. Like a rock. It's staying in my collection. It's not going anywhere. Brian Koss says, I keep all my games at 50 cents to help all the foremen out there. Thanks, Brian. And Koss, we appreciate that, but you still can't get it for a quarter, can you?
    94:07
    All right. So anyway, so should we go on and move on? I thought that was good. That was good. We talked. That was good. We talked. There was words. Yeah, words came out. We did fine. So the other thing Kaneda said, he had some rumors. You want to hear some rumors? I do want to hear rumors. I'm waiting for the first one. All right, the first one is not really a big shocker. It says you're not going to see Toy Story until the end of the year next year, which makes sense, 2021. So you think they're just going to keep churning these out? Yeah, their sales are too good for Guns N' Roses. Yeah, but do they have more than one line? I think it's all Guns N' Roses. Well, I know, but do they have two lines? I thought they had three. Okay. They might all be Guns N' Roses. That's my question, though, but see, Stern goes back and forth. I don't think they're going to do that. No, that makes sense. They're not Stern at all. Sure. No, absolutely not. That was rumor number one. Okay. I kind of believe that one. Rumor number two. Are you ready? Mm-hmm. CGC. This is CGC rumor. Mm-hmm.
    95:02
    The rumor is the reason why the delay is that Cactus Canyon is not the next game, but they're going to be releasing Theater of Magic to capitalize on the Papa Duke Raza stuff. No. And he thinks he's been hearing that the Cactus Canyon isn't as complete as Theater of Magic, and they're going to go into that. Which one would you rather have? Neither.
    95:32
    Wow, hot take, hot take. Fuck them. I don't. Listen, again, if I had $9,000 or $8,000 to buy one of those, I'm not buying one of those. If I had $8,000, I can buy them today.
    95:49
    i don't get it i'll take that eight grand and i'll i'll i'll buy i'll buy a guns and roses i will buy something new okay this is why and i said this fucking last year on this show that the cgc models all backwards they started with the best games first that are way more than you know um you know you save money buying those but starting from the top down you're only getting worse games well you say worse but for some people it's not i mean some price wise well but some people you know it's a it's a terrible business model because medieval madness there's a lot of people monster bash we're going 10 12 grand there's now you're selling them for seven eight grand now you're making people happy but now you're getting to that range of seven and eight thousand why you can buy that anytime yeah but when they started that the games weren't nearly that much that was the problem well i'm just saying it's it's a new games that were coming out i should say is there a is there a game you would be interested in as a remake uh well yeah it's already made it's called attack from ours no so what are they going to do for the next theater of Magic interests me, but I don't think I would purchase it. It would be nice to have a brand new Theater of Magic, though. One that works. That's what I'm saying. And give it the CGC treatment. It's interesting.
    97:21
    Your list is pretty long. You can go into the wild and pick a lot of games. Jonathan Hall, I would pay twice as much for a Medieval Madness versus a Cactus Canyon. I agree with that. 100%. oh there we go there's there's jesse j for you if something about indiana jones hang on dude indiana jones is the only cgc game i'm interested i'd buy a cgc indie classic for 59.95 yes brian cosner i think ian would be right behind you in line i would uh which is in front of you you would sell octoberfest i'd be behind him with the reach okay what's that let's say they just throw a complete curveball and they're like indiana jones is available at 7500 you get rid of Oktoberfest. No, it would sit pretty next to the Oktoberfest. Okay. Fair enough. But you would be in on that, right? I'd have to be. Yeah. Okay. I'd sell all sorts of shit to make that happen. Sure. Sure, sure. Yeah, and for me, like I said, you know, Attack from Mars is on my maybe list.
    98:24
    Still a great game. It is. It's a fantastic game. The Pinball FX guys did a good job with it, so I've been getting my fix there. but uh ricky mcclung i played a super mint theater magic not worth medieval madness remake price yeah no and that's the whole point it is i mean you know right now those games are going for you know six grand maybe they're really nice maybe 6,500 seven and um yeah i don't care about the as many bills and bells and whistles cgc is going to probably throw at some of these newer releases they're going to have to do something really special with these new releases these remakes if they're gonna you know they're really just at the bottom at the end of the day they really just have to release new shit right how about family with new cartoon characters yeah that's another one i mean adam's family they've talked about um would be one that would be how the fuck is that still so expensive they made 20 000 of them that right there's 20 000 beat the shit ones yeah that's it's still mind-boggling though you're right because Good game, though. You find one that's beat to shit, they're like, yeah, that'll be five grand. Yeah, I know. And it doesn't work. It's like Indiana Jones. Yeah.
    99:35
    It is what it is. So anyway, should we wrap this up? Wrap it up. All right. Well, thank you, everybody, for listening.
    99:45
    Email us at thepoormanspinball at gmail.com. Email us there. No, it's right down there. All right. Find us on Twitter, Poor Man's Pinball. Find us on Facebook, Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Find us on YouTube, Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Find us here on, where are we? Yeah, we're on YouTube. Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. We're on Facebook right now. You can find us anywhere. Fucking find us. You know where we are. You can text Ian at 414. Nope, stop that. Doesn't have Drew's nipples. Should we talk about phone numbers? Never mind.
    100:21
    So that's, yeah. And again, if you're just listening to us, I would really, really encourage you guys to follow us. Thanks, Tony. Follow us on Facebook, and that really helps us, and you might enjoy that live show. Guys, get your friends on board. We don't need you to buy anything. We like it. Remember, don't forget silver ball swag. Buy our shit.
    100:43
    But that's not what we want. We want all the pinball eyeballs and ear balls on us. I've been on Jack Danger's streams. I've been on it. Good night, my friends.
    100:58
    This stream, this chat is the most ridiculous of them all by far. So I appreciate it, guys. So thank you very much. You guys have a great day.
    101:08
    Thanks, guys. I love you. I wonder what's inside your butthole, what's inside your butthole, I always wanna know, I wonder what's inside your butthole. Maybe they're a crystal, not Clubbar, maybe they're a princess What's a Starter Buckle? I wonder what's a Starter Buckle What's a Starter Buckle? I always wanna know I wonder what's a Starter Buckle What's a Starter Buckle? I always wanna know I wonder what's a Starter Buckle What's a Starter Buckle? I always wanna know I wonder what's a Starter Buckle What's a Starter Buckle? I always wanted books. What kind of books? I always wanted books. What kind of books? The views expressed on this podcast don't necessarily reflect the views of our sponsors.
    102:36
    Obviously, they don't really care as much as we do about buttholes and what's inside them. So thanks for listening, guys. Have a great day. Bye-bye.