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Episode 233 – Early Adapter

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 3m·analyzed·Aug 10, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Haggis Pinball collapse detailed: $1M+ losses, liquidation, creditor analysis, industry warnings

Summary

Ron and Bruce from Slam Tilt Podcast discuss the collapse of Haggis Pinball, an Australian manufacturer that entered liquidation after failing to secure financing. The episode covers creditor details ($846k+ owed to individuals, $259k to distributors, $56k+ to licensor Planetary Pinball), deceptive pre-order practices, quality issues with their games, and broader industry concerns about unsafe direct-to-manufacturer purchasing. Brief discussions include WIC code updates and Keanu Reeves' appearance at Comic-Con.

Key Claims

  • Haggis Pinball entered liquidation after failing to secure financing; all websites taken down

    high confidence · Directly cited from Pinball News reporting; confirmed by liquidator appointment

  • 86 individuals are owed $846,349 total by Haggis; 30+ paid in full for Fathoms, 8 for Centaurs

    high confidence · Creditor list posted on Pinside and documented in 'Haggis Pinball: The Aftermath' article

  • Haggis took pre-order deposits for Fathom (April 2021) for 8 months without approved working prototype

    high confidence · Reported by Pinball News Martin citing alleged Haggis employee; prototype not sent to Planetary Pinball for approval until December 2021

  • Three distributors (Flippin' Out, Nitro Pinball, RS Pinball) are collectively owed $259,000 (~$86k each)

    high confidence · Creditor documentation from liquidation records

  • Damien Harten personally claims $1,010,060.32 in losses through himself and Hartsco entity

    high confidence · Creditor list; hosts question logic of this claim vs. revenue

  • Licensor Planetary Pinball is owed $56,729.28 by Haggis

    high confidence · Creditor documentation

  • Haggis games use custom thick playfield requiring special parts; aftermarket support now impossible

    medium confidence · Bruce's experience with Haggis machine; fast board skin requires proprietary through-hole acrylic layer

  • Multiple people lost money across Zidware, Deep Root, and Haggis simultaneously

    medium confidence · Ron mentions knowing two people with losses across all three manufacturers

  • WIC code update released today slightly improves game balance by preventing enemy spawns during multiballs

    high confidence · Zach reports new code; addresses multiball stacking issue

Notable Quotes

  • “Liquidation. I guess there were rumors, like people saw a moving truck in front of the place... The factory... And then the landlord then put the thing back up for rent.”

    Ron Hallett @ Early segment — Describes physical evidence of Haggis's sudden exit and liquidation process

  • “They started telling people with like centaur orders, yes, your centaur is ready to be built. spend the remainder of your money when it wasn't even close to being ready to be filmed. And that's what really was the scummy scumbag part.”

    Ron Hallett @ Mid-segment — Identifies deceptive pre-order practices as core issue; directly accuses management of deliberate fraud

  • “I hope fucking people finally get the hint. If you're going to pay for something, it's not much, but go through a distributor. Oh, yes. And a U.S.-based one, because then you can actually sue them if you had to.”

    Ron Hallett @ Late segment — Industry lesson: avoid direct manufacturer payments; use distributors for legal recourse protection

  • “They didn't even have a working prototype yet. It was all going to be perfect, mate... They didn't have a working prototype until December and that was sent to Planetary Pinball for approval.”

    Ron Hallett @ Mid-segment — Details eight-month gap between pre-order sales and prototype submission for licensor approval

  • “Every other time, it was in the back, broken. Yeah. But it was one of the first fathoms. It was... It was number five or six, but still.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ Late segment — Personal testimony to chronic quality/reliability issues with Fathom machines

  • “I knew there was a problem. And that's why I was warning everybody, Hey, don't be fucking doing this. Don't give money.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ Mid-segment — Bruce claims early warning of troubles; non-responsiveness to emails in August of prior year

  • “If you sold 500 Centaurs at – what was the price? $12,000? That still ain't making up your million dollars.”

    Ron Hallett — Questions the math of Damien's claimed $1M+ loss; suggests fundamental business model failure

Entities

Haggis PinballcompanyDamien HartenpersonRon HallettpersonBruce NightingalepersonZach MinneypersonPlanetary PinballcompanyFlippin' OutcompanyNitro PinballcompanyRS Pinball

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball entered liquidation after failing to secure financing; liquidators appointed; all web presence removed; factory vacated with moving trucks observed

    high · Confirmed via Pinball News reporting; landlord confirmed space back on rental market

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball News article initially mis-attributed blame to employee Martin Robbins alongside Damien; creditor list sparked Pinside debate about employee vs owner culpability; article revised multiple times

    high · NAP Arcade article 'Haggis Pinball: The Aftermath' changed crediting after community pushback; Knapp's justification for removal of Marty's name questioned

  • ?

    community_signal: WIC launch party at Rochester Pinball Collective with tournament format; Eric Russell won with comeback victories against Zach Minney (3-2 finals)

    high · Event occurred at RPC (349 W Commercial St, East Rochester); wooden plaque award; documented match results

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong sentiment shift toward direct manufacturer distrust; hosts emphasize purchasing through U.S.-based distributors for legal recourse; broad community loss across multiple failed manufacturers (Zidware, Deep Root, Haggis)

    high · Ron's repeated warnings against direct payments; mentions of people losing across all three manufacturers; Bruce's early warnings vindicated

  • ?

    event_signal: Multiple competing events same weekend (Southern Friday Gaming Expo, California Extreme, Pinberg) post-COVID; WIC launch party at RPC; various show coverage gaps by hosts

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.370

0:00
Ah! Run! No, I can't swim! Uh, what? Uh, Beavis? Did you, like, drowned or something? Are you dead? Hello?
0:18
Oh, well. Now, where did those chicks go? Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Show Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with the other host, Bruce Nightingale. Yes, we are the White Sox of pinball podcasts. What does that mean? They've lost 20 in a row. Oh, gosh. We haven't lost your money yet because you don't give us any.
0:58
All right. But, yes, and this is episode 233. How's it going? Hi, Ron. Did you give money today? Did you give money in the past three or four years to a company? If so, call us.
1:12
Why, we can get your money back? No. Oh. We can just spend it like they did. So, yes, we're going to talk our first story, the big story since our last episode. Yes. Haggis from Down Under went under. Went under. They went down, down, down under.
1:32
Yeah. Well, your money went and went under. That's what I'm asking about my money. Where can it be now? A whole lot of shit show going on. So, basically, Haggis, they disappeared from the Internet. They took all their sites down. And then they appointed liquidators as the business failed to secure financing to continuous operations. I'm reading this from Pinball News. Yeah, just surprise, surprise. Liquidation.

Keanu Reeves visited Comic-Con and played WIC, appeared unfamiliar with the game

high confidence · Stern at Comic-Con; Keanu's surprise reaction and question about development time mentioned

@ Late segment

  • “So it's like liquid ass, you know. Liquid ass. All of your money went right through us and right out into the shitter.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ Opening segment — Crude but memorable summary of customer financial losses; sets tone for discussion

  • “Stock settings. Yeah, we did not move any outlanes. We did not move any rubbers. But it's an asshole. Killed you.”

    Ron Hallett @ WIC segment — WIC stock settings heavily favor house drain; unusual difficulty even before code changes

  • “In the beginning, good always overpowered the evil of all bad sins. But in time, when nations grew weak and Australians stole your money, who do you call? You call the A-team.”

    Ron or Bruce (reading Kineticists timeline parody) @ Late segment — Community humor/commentary on Haggis collapse; A-Team parody with Australian theme

    • company
    Martin (Pinball News)person
    Andrew Heighwayperson
    Robert Muellerperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Keanu Reevesperson
    Eric Russell (CNY)person
    Rochester Pinball Collectiveorganization
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Zidwarecompany
    WIC (John Wick Chapter 4)game
    Kineticistsorganization

    medium · Hosts note lack of coverage due to event conflicts and personal absence; Pinberg timing issue continues despite COVID

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Planetary Pinball (Valley Games licensor) accepted pre-orders for 8 months (April-December 2021) before receiving/approving working prototype; raises questions about licensor oversight and approval processes

    high · Employee report via Pinball News Martin; prototype sent December 2021 for first approval despite 8 months of sales

  • $

    market_signal: Flippin' Out (formerly Cointaker) identified as 'smartest' for severing ties early and staying with Dutch Pinball; subtle indicator of early industry awareness of Haggis problems

    medium · Hosts praise Flippin' Out's decision to drop Haggis; note their continued partnership with Dutch suggests informed decision-making

  • $

    market_signal: Keanu Reeves appeared at Stern's Comic-Con booth playing WIC; expressed surprise and asked how long game took to make; unclear if he was aware of game before appearance

    high · Hosts speculate Keanu may not have known about project; 'whoa whoa dude' reaction interpreted as surprise; copyright/licensing question implied

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Multiple Haggis employees lost jobs in liquidation; some (like Amarty) heavily associated with company now face reputational damage despite not being owners

    high · Hosts express sympathy for staff layoffs; note Amarty's prior startup experience and current Pinside association issues

  • $

    market_signal: Fathom priced significantly higher than Centaur remake; hosts suggest original pricing was too high or insufficient margin on second generation, indicating fundamental business model failure

    medium · Ron notes Fathom cost comparison and questions Centaur $12k pricing against claimed $1M losses

  • ?

    announcement: WIC code update released improving multiball mechanics; prevents enemy spawns during multiballs to reduce stacking; hosts note stock game settings already brutally difficult

    high · Zach reports new code; addresses prior complaint about stack-fest gameplay; Raymond Davidson's stream noted WIC as unusually mean

  • ?

    product_concern: Haggis games use proprietary thick playfields with custom parts requiring special through-hole acrylic; no aftermarket support available; machines reported frequently non-functional

    high · Bruce's direct experience: Fathom only worked once at RPC, otherwise in back broken; custom fast board skin creates parts unavailability

    • 2:06
    It seems to be like that's their word for bankruptcy, I guess. Yes, it is. So it's like liquid ass, you know. Liquid ass.
    2:14
    All of your money went right through us and right out into the shitter. So, probably no one's getting their money back. No. There's so many debtors, including himself. Yeah, he's a debtor. He debted himself. Well, because he had his other businesses.
    2:34
    Well, yeah, okay, I've read a lot of things about the fact that, like, all the equipment he had was under his other company. Yeah. So that's not subject to this? No, not subject. I did the same thing when we were at Silver Ball. Yeah, explain that. What did you do at Silver Ball Saloon? Well, all the games were under a different company. and we rented the games to Silver Ball Saloon as, you know, supplying an MS. So in case anything happened to Silver Ball Saloon, there was not going to be an issue, you know. So we always did that from day one. I had to have another insurance policy because of a different company and all the other fun stuff with it. But I've had this company before even, Silver Ball, and that's how we did it. I rented the games to Silver Ball, and then when Silver Ball went under, I still had the games. Because guess what? That company was still around. Yes. And still is to this day. You didn't owe billions of dollars. No, I didn't owe myself. But I charged myself $72,000 per game for a Silver Ball Saloon, one under business. Yeah, I know of a restaurant I went to years ago as a kid. And they – Is it City Walk? No. You go to City Walk? No. It was a couple. City Walk. It was an Italian restaurant, Bruce. I thought you were going to City Walk. And it was a couple that owned it, but everything was under the wife's name. Of course, because there's a lot of – Even though the husband ran everything, but he also had a gambling problem. And they were worried about things like losing a liquor license, stuff like that. So everything was under her name. But the best thing about that also is women get tax breaks more and they get low-interest loans and that kind of stuff for having a women-owned business.
    4:27
    Oh. So it does help more in that way also. Of course, this was 30, 40 years ago. I doubt that was the case then. No, I doubt that too. But now it is the case. Mm-hmm.
    4:37
    CityWalk. Bob, we have you on Puck Five Ways. So now that we got really offensive. So, yeah, they went into liquidation. Liquidation. I guess there were rumors, like people saw a moving truck in front of the place. Yeah, a moving truck moving all the shit out of there. We're going to get our shit out of here. The factory. And then the landlord then put the thing back up for rent, the place. Yeah, the factory. Yeah, the landlord confirmed, yeah, they're out. It's a van for rent. I don't think they have southern accents in Australia, though. Good day, mate. We can get you to that place. Quickie, quickie. Yeah.
    5:15
    So another one. Another one. What do you. Besides, you know, a couple of people being out of jobs and a lot of people being out of money. Well, we'll go over that because there's more on that. Yes. But.
    5:30
    Honestly. OK. In February, they had their whole. The last time they said anything. Yeah. They haven't said anything through this. The last time they said anything was in February where they had the whole, what was it? We have to recapitalize. Recapitalize. And then next month we're at TPF asking for money. Were they? Yeah, I thought they went to Texas. No, there was a Centaur there, but they weren't there. I thought one of them was. I really do think they were there. I don't think so. I was there, Bruce. I didn't see any of them there. I didn't see Damian there, that's for sure.
    6:06
    The Centaur was just one of the boots. I think it was just brought there through a distributor or something. Okay.
    6:13
    But they were there the previous year with FAB. Yes. They definitely were in 2023. So when they had that announcement about the whole recapitalization thing,
    6:27
    I'm the positive one on the podcast, as we know. I'm good cop. And I said, you know, I hope this doesn't mean in the end, when in my brain I'm thinking they're done.
    6:40
    Yeah, when I saw that, it's like, oh. Unless they get some kind of miracle investor, they're done. Because they were doing the thing where they were telling people. It actually shows them as an exhibitor for the 2024 TPF. I thought they pulled out. Nope. They were there. But for the 2024, I have to look back in the picture now. Well, I'm sure someone will correct us, as they always do.
    7:10
    But I was thinking, they were doing the thing, what is it, robbing Peter to pay Paul or whatever. I never remember that expression, where they're behind on money. So they started telling people with like centaur orders, yes, your centaur is ready to be built. spend the remainder of your money when it wasn't even close to being ready to be filmed. And that's what really was the scummy scumbag part. They did a lot of that. Yes, they did.
    7:41
    And other stuff's coming out. Like, I listened to the Pinball News podcast. And they, I guess, Martin, not Haggis Martin, but Pinball News Martin, was in touch with supposedly a Haggis employee that said, and this is the part that I don't understand. Maybe we can get into this. So, when they announced, we have all the licenses. We're going to make all these Valley Games, right? And they announced the first one's going to be Fath.
    8:16
    And they're selling you rights to four other ones in the future. Yeah, whatever. And they started taking pre-order money in April of 2021 for this Fath. right? According to this employee, they didn't even have a working prototype yet.
    8:31
    It was all going to be perfect, mate. We're going to do this. We're going to do this right. They didn't have a working prototype until December and that was sent to Planetary Pinball for approval.
    8:47
    What's your opinion on and I've seen this mentioned on other podcasts. You're Planetary Pinball. You make an agreement with these guys because I guess they made Keltz, so you figure like, okay, that means they can do this.
    9:02
    Whatever. They make this announcement. Obviously, you had some kind of deal with them at that point. And part of it is I have to approve your prototype before you can make them. But they're taking money for eight months without an approved prototype.
    9:19
    If you're Planetary, you just not care. Like, that's not my problem. Hey, you never know. They could be part of the lawsuit. Somebody also. No, they're owed money also, which I'm assuming. They could still be as a licensor, possibly, possibly, wrapped up in all this. I mean, because it just doesn't seem right that they were able to do that when they don't have a working prototype. They don't have approved. It's not approved yet. You know what I mean? like the actual prototype. It's been approved for eight months, and they're taking money that whole time.
    9:57
    What the fuck, you know? We'll make it for you good. We'll do good, and we'll make it all right. Yeah, they are doing good, because Pedretti's actually making games. So, Pinball Brothers, you know, Abba's, they're coming out. I have that on my list. Actually, Abba's in production, Bruce. They're making Abba's right now.
    10:13
    And they're making the Fun Houses, too. Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun. But that just seems weird to me. That doesn't seem right. No, it doesn't. And I agree with you totally on that, but, you know. And then all this stuff coming out. Oh, God, the pin side thread. Holy shit. That's like a whole other. You got Wayne from Mr. Pinball Australia, who's basically said, Damien, I know you're reading this. You suck my dick. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay.
    10:42
    Getting a little crazy. Sounds like they're on a manly date down there. Crikey. Here's my penis. take it now and like it. But it's just, and they were doing the thing that a lot of the Pinside poster people said, like, they said my game was ready and to send the rest of the payment. There was a lot of that going on. Yeah. And there were, I guess, former Haggis employees that said like, a lot of this stuff started early on where they just, he was just lying to people. I honestly think Damien was just way over his head. Yeah. Way over his and then it just snowballs from there big time. And you want to try to keep it going. We're still going to make these games. We're going to do it. And it just gets worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And you're going drowning and drowning more and more.
    11:34
    Yeah. What do you think, Bruce? What are your opinions, Bruce? My opinions are no longer a part of this.
    11:43
    Bruce, if that's Gail's opinions, do not reflect those of Slam Tilt Podcast, even though he is one of the two hosts of Slantfield Puck. I knew it was a shit show. The games that we got were shit shows.
    11:58
    When he wouldn't even respond to emails from us back in August of before, you know, this time last year, way before even, I knew there was a problem.
    12:13
    And that's why I was warning everybody, Hey, don't be fucking doing this. Don't give money. Yeah, like if you have one of these games, they have fast boards. So, okay, that's like a skin. You know, a lot of people are using the fast boards. But they use those, the special, the plate fields that are thicker because they have that layer of whatever, acrylic that they use. So all the parts had to be made. All the parts are custom because they have to go through the through hole ones, through plate fill because they have to be because it's a thicker plate fill. So as far as any parts, you're kind of screwed. Yep.
    12:51
    It was just a shit show. It really was. I was like, ugh. I just felt bad for the people who lost money because there was definitely deceit. Oh, after a certain point, there was definitely deceit going on. There was deceit literally in 2022 and 23. I just think opening, you know, a pinball and, of course, COVID and everything like that, and they just said full speed ahead.
    13:19
    Well, this is after COVID. I know, but they started trying to do stuff before COVID, and then they got hung up with building machines when they couldn't and paying off all that rent. And maybe they got money back from, you know, the government. And they're in Australia. They got to get all the parts. That's the biggest issue. Oh, totally. It was totally stupid. I just think you just can't make them there. It just doesn't work. It doesn't work.
    13:47
    But, yeah, it's just a shit show. And, unfortunately, a lot of people got burned. And I hope, finally, I hope people will realize don't give your money first direct to a manufacturer. No one will realize. manufacturer. I bet you there's someone who lost money on like Zidware, Deep Root,
    14:08
    and Haggis. I lost a lot of everything! They're just like, and they're so rich they don't give a shit, whatever. I know two people that lost double. Well, one of your, one of the owners of the Rochester Pinball Collective. He was in, he had, what, he got the four or five games, whatever the hell it was. He had a five pack. And he got one of those packs, which he sold. And then he got the email back in February, hey, your game will be first to ship and ready to go since you're a pre-buyer. We need your deposit now. And Mark's like, do I do this? I'm like, are you fucking stupid? Oh, that was for Centaur? Yeah. Oh, God. He's like, oh. So he came back and said, I'll wait since I had so many bad issues with Fathom. I'll wait until the last part of the run before paying my deposit. Because it never said in the statement when you needed to get your machine. Or when you were going to get your machine. Yeah, you could be an early adapter and get it, but you didn't have to say, hey, I'll take the first one or second. That was kind of like a privilege, but you could probably say, guess what? I ain't giving you shit.
    15:16
    Because I wouldn't. Yeah, that was a good decision. Yeah, so needless to say, he has more money in his pocket, but he still lost the money. How much money literally did they piss away? Well, that's the thing I like to say. So, Randy, this is from Haggis Pinball, The Aftermath, which is from Nap Arcade.
    15:36
    Oh, that was interesting. Yeah. The first paragraph of this right now says, Earlier this morning, someone shared a list of the creditors that are owed money by Damian Harten's failed pinball venture, Haggis Pinball, on Pinside. Let's take a look at the numbers. But the first time this was posted, it actually said basically the same thing. except creditors that are owed money by Damian Harton and Martin Robbins failed. Yeah, which is totally wrong. I'm like, wait a minute. Was Marty an owner? Nope. He was an employee. Yeah, and there was a whole back and forth on Facebook over this, and the article was changed at least twice more after that until it's at its current state.
    16:20
    But that brought up in his NAPS, I guess his reasoning, And let me get this up right here. His reasoning was basically since Marty was so closely associated and was, you know, with him that he should share some of the blame, I guess. I don't believe in that. Guess what? Because Marty probably didn't know the full financials. Maybe he did. But guess what? You're an employee. You're getting paid by your – if I'm an employee of something, I'm going to support as much as I can to keep a job. I would not lie to you to keep my job, but I would try to support it as much as I could.
    16:59
    And I know people at the fine line, oh, how do you know when you, guess what? Your gut and your conscience make up. So this is what Knapp said after he changed it like a couple times and people kept like pounding him. He says, I took his name, Marty, took his name out completely. Congratulations to all of Marty's BFFs who have beaten me down with their complaints and erased a public pinball figure's involvement in promoting one of the largest losses in money in recent pinball history.
    17:28
    But guess what? We're promoting stuff right now. Well, it brings up, okay, so Deep Root. Yeah, so Steve Bound and Paul. So Steve Bound and Paul, he promoted Deep Root. All the shows were Deep Root stuff. you know it's showing the awesomeness of deep root etc or do you go the opposite way and say is dutch pinball supporting now uh john papaduke because they're they're making one of his games i'll think it goes yeah like if we have if rochester pinball collective which is located 349 west commercial street in east rochester new york uh suite number 2965 if they were to say go under causing the just, you know, tens of people going downhill, losing tens or two hundreds of dollars? Would it be Bruce Nuttingale and Ron Hallett's failed venture, Rochester Pinball Collective, because I promoted it all the time on this show? No. You know, it's just, I'm just wondering if you're going to, is it your job the second you think something is wrong or is like, I don't like where things are going, I better get out. also known as the Nordman method. Yeah, if you're Nordman and you're jumping ship, clap your hands. Yeah, you know they're in trouble. Yeah, so I just thought that was interesting because that seems to be, well, I quoted verbatim what NAP said. So if you're promoting, then, I mean, in 2023, Damien and Marty were the ones there at the Haggis booth. But, I mean, who the hell else is going to be there? I don't know anyone else that was at Haggis. I know. So here's the numbers, Bruce. Big money, big money, big money. Stop. No whammies. How much is owed to Haggis' three distributors, which were, flip it out for the U.S., which was formerly Cointaker before they severed their ties. They were the smartest ones. I'm going to say, maybe that shows you a little behind the scenes. Yeah, they stayed with Dutch. We might even have said something about that back in the day. Yeah. Because they stayed with Dutch forever, still with Dutch, yet they dropped access. Yeah. That should have been a message there. Nitro Pinball for the Canadian market and RS Pinball for Europe. All three are owed a total of $259,000. An average of $86,000 each.
    20:03
    Ouch. Ouchy, ouchy. So, Zach, at Flippin' Out, I know, I think he was just on vacation. This might have happened right before he went on vacation. That's kicking the ass right before vacation. Hey, you just got back from your cruise. What do you got to do? You owe $100,000 to people.
    20:20
    Yeah. Let's see. It also says 86 individuals are owed a massive total of $846,349 by Haggis. So these are probably people who paid in full or deposits for the game that they never received. Yeah. Not good. Mm-hmm. Then there were, let's see, over 30 people who paid in full for Fathoms and never received them, eight people who paid in full for Centaurs, and a bunch of people lost deposits or were Haggis season ticket holders. The licensor who gave Haggis the rights to make the machines, Planetary, is owed $56,729.28.
    21:01
    Would that be the licensing on games they actually sold or games they were supposed to sell? Or maybe the deposits that they took also.
    21:10
    But, yeah, I don't know how you get that exact number. Yeah. All I know is one thing. Who's the smart one here? Who's the one that sold their spot? Yeah. Who's the smart one here? Yes. And the person you sold it to sold it. Yes, and that's sold five times. I don't even know if that person ever got their game.
    21:26
    Let's see. Damien claims that he personally and one of his other business entities, Hartsco, are owed a total of $1,010,060.32 by Hacks. Okay, hold on. I think that basically means he's saying he lost a million dollars of his own money. Okay, if you've lost $100,000 and then you lose like $300,000 and you see all your debtors lining up more and more,
    21:54
    do you wait until a million dollars before you pump the brakes? No, no. I can advertise Centaur, and then I can sell that. Okay. Even if you sold – wait a second. Let's go by logic here. Oh, no. There's no logic here. If you sold 500 Centaurs at – what was the price? $12,000?
    22:14
    That still ain't making up your million dollars. Well, that is the other big clue that was major issues. Remember what the original Fathoms cost? I don't remember off the top of my head, but what they cost compared to what Centaur was. Oh, I know. It was like almost double. It was like way more. That told me already that, number one, they probably didn't charge enough for the original, or it was still pretty pricey for an old, you know, it's a remake of an old game. But that told me they were not making enough money at all. No, no. So, as I said, I hope fucking people finally get the hint. If you're going to pay for something, it's not much, but go through a distributor. Oh, yes. And a U.S.-based one, because then you can actually sue them if you had to. I don't know if I could ever buy a game from a non-U.S. company. From a non-U.S. company. Yeah. I would never. Hey, what about me? You going to buy a machine off of me? See, Alien, I like Alien. I know you don't. Oh, God, no. But when I saw, I just saw the build, and I just know it's in Europe. I'm just like, I'm screwed.
    23:28
    I know they were super supportive to Ourzak when he had the, well, actually, he still owns the Alien, I believe. Half of it, anyway. He does own half of it. But, yeah, he had so many breakdowns that he became basically one of their, I guess, beta. I mean, he opened probably more tickets than anyone else and got more free parts. Like, here, try this. Here, try this. Oh, the computer blew up again. Here, here's a new one. Oh, this blew up. Here's a new one. Oh, here, try these new targets. They work better. Try this. It works better. It's like, what the fuck? I don't think so. Yeah. And this is the same factory that's making ABBA. They're making the Funhouse one. That's why it's just like, oh.
    24:10
    I don't know. They were not there this year. You were right. The pinball machine was in Nitro's booth. Bingo!
    24:17
    But that's probably one of three, maybe, centaurs that are out there. Can you say I'm right? I want to hear it.
    24:25
    Really? You can't say I'm right? You just can't say that? You're okay. Okay. What a dick. There was also a really good timeline for Haggis that was published by the Kineticists, so I'll throw that out there. I'm not going to go over that whole thing, but it's out there from the beginning to the end.
    24:48
    In the beginning, good always overpowered the evil of all bad sins. But in time, when nations grew weak and Australians stole your money, who do you call?
    25:01
    You call the A-team, the Australian team. in 2021 a company a company said they make a pinball that they couldn't make they escaped with their money to the australian underground or the australian outback now if you want your money back you gotta call a few the proud the a team da da da crikey and if you can find them the a team a for australia But seriously, it sucks for everybody. Oh, it does suck, totally. And unfortunately, the only... So much money lost. Yeah.
    25:42
    I warn people for the past year and a half, hey, man, I got out of Fathom. The quality sucks. And some people are having issues with the playfields, supposedly. Yes. The shatter, if you go there, it's exciting.
    25:56
    When we had a lot of issues with ours, I mean, it was like, I will say, only once that I went to RPC was the fathom actually on the floor. Yeah, working. Every other time, it was in the back, broken. Yeah. But it was one of the first fathoms. It was. It was number five or six, but still.
    26:17
    Yeah. A shot. Unfortunately, I feel bad for the people who actually worked there, too. Like Amartya. That was his green up. He had a pinball company. Guess what? When a pit bull company starts, hey, I'm going to join this. And now you're out of a job. You're kind of fucked that way, too. And now, no offense, even now he's being associated with this company. Oh, yeah. As far as Pinstine is concerned, he's part owner and completely responsible. Yeah, exactly. And he's not. But, you know, people see otherwise.
    26:53
    He is a debtor. He is not a – don't get me wrong. He's not as big of a debtor as Damien is, but he's still a debtor. And, you know, he lost his job. Damien, I don't know. You think he'll ever appear again or whether he's disappeared forever? Well, he's no longer in the Puddle of Mojave, I guarantee you. Damien will never set foot. Well, he won't be over here, but you think he'll show up at a show in Australia somewhere or something? Maybe eventually, maybe like 10 years from now. I don't know if it'll be 10 years. I could see in a couple years. But, you know, maybe he'll hang out with, what's his name, with his yacht. Oh, the highway guy? Yeah. Hydrofoil. Yeah, Hydrofoil. Andrew Highway. Maybe they're doing dueling hydrofoils down there.
    27:41
    Oh, I can hear you, Bruce. That means that Zach must be high. He must be on high, Zach. High. Oh, man. He's really, really high level right there. He's high. We're only talking about the great thing called haggis. Yes, yes. Turn your level down, Zach. for you. That's better, I guess.
    28:00
    Everyone loves Haggis. We love hearing Zach's clicking, too, which... Oh, he lowered himself to 3 dB. Thank you. I'm sorry that my mouse is too loud. Yeah, it's too loud. What are your thoughts on Haggis collapsing, crashing, burning, and falling? I feel like he, Highway, and J-Pop will all be partying on their yacht together. On their hydrofoil. It's a hydrofoil. I don't think they made enough money to be buying yachts. If Deepford Guy ever gets out of whatever he's in, then he can buy the yacht for them. Oh, God. There you go. That's right, brother. Robert Mueller, dude. We're going to have a party on the hydrofoil. Oh, God. That's right, dude. It's Robert Mueller time. That'd be a great, really confusing shirt, like his face with, like, party on the hydrofoil written on it with exclamation marks. I actually wanted to grab one of the hats from the back of the RPC because we still have some Haggis stuff, and I was going to wear my Haggis hat this weekend. You know what you could have? Okay. I know this is bad. But you could have, like, the four horsemen shirt, but the four horsemen are, like, Andrew Highway, Robert Buehler, Papa Duke, and Damien from Haggis. And it could be the four horsemen of the football apocalypse. No, no, no. You kick out Papa Duke. You don't even care about Papa Duke. You get the guy that was doing the, what's it called, Predator. Get the guy. Oh, God. I feel like you also need Papa Duke. You need all five at this point. Yeah, probably. The five horsemen. The five horsemen? The five fingers of finger punch of deck. Yes, the five fingers of deck.
    29:30
    Yes, I like it. The deck of pinball. Yes. But, Zach, what are your thoughts on Haggis? You saw the quality.
    29:43
    Yeah, I mean, even their play that you can't move a hammer still was wearing from the ball hitting it. Yes, yeah. Yeah, the Haggis that we sold, the Celts. Yeah, even before Fathom, just from Couch, I was like, I don't think these guys are quite ready. No. Are they making spooky look professional?
    30:01
    Yeah. Okay. I think we can move on. I think so, God. I feel bad for the people who lost money, and I'm sorry. You can request your donations from... All right. I got a couple. There were several shows here that I didn't go to, so I really don't have any information on, and I didn't look anything up because I'm lazy. But the Southern Friday Gaming Expo occurred, and California Extreme occurred, the same weekend as Pinberg again. Somehow, even after COVID, that continues to happen.
    30:38
    And then there was the WIC launch party we had at the Rochester Pinball Collective. The biggest event since last recording. Yeah that true And one of our listeners Eric Russell CNY took home the gold or the what did he take home The plaque. He took home the gold plaque. It's not gold, it's wood. The wooden gold plaque, the golden wooden plaque. He's not a woody.
    31:06
    And he had some awesome comeback games against Zach. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Yeah, Zach took the leads, but Eric came back. 2-0, I think, in the finals? Or something like that. 2-1.
    31:25
    And then we came back to 3-2. Mm-hmm. Anyone but Zach. I didn't make finals. I didn't make anything. Yeah. How is that?
    31:35
    Yeah. We should have had Stu. Stu McVicker should have went instead. Stu McVicker should have went first. He did better than I did. I suck.
    31:42
    Oh. So what do you think of WIC in its current state? The new code that came out today sounds slightly better. Oh, okay. So slightly better from what? Pretty baseline.
    31:57
    Yeah. Because when we were playing it, it was like, so... What to do? Where do we shoot? How do you know what to do? You just get car ready. You start a boat, and then you get into the car multiball, and that's the thing. Well, now they've made it so, like, you can't get enemies during multiballs.
    32:13
    So it's at least not just, like, a stack fest. Ah. So they neutered it even more. Right. Well, now I hope at least, like, maybe someone will be like, okay, I'm going to purposely not do multiball. If it's not our way, that kills you in ten seconds if you're not multiball. But another way that actually plays fair, you might choose to not play multiball to get your enemies to get to your, like, mini wizard mode administration. Are you saying your wick doesn't play fair? Oh, ours is fucking asshole.
    32:42
    Well, fix that. Make it play fair. When Raymond Davidson's looking on our stream and going, that is the meanest wick I've ever seen. Stock settings.
    32:53
    Yeah, we did not move any outlanes. We did not move any rubbers. But it's an asshole. Killed you. Yeah, the pro I played at the local FFF, which Bruce loves. Fuck, fuck, and fucker. No, no. Fun, funner, funnest. That played... The last word is fuckest, Bruce, not fuckest. Fuckest, okay. Fuck, fucker, fuckest. That actually played brutal also. That's why I'm like, wow. I mean, I heard they're all brutal, but like ours seems to be more brutal than average. Yeah. Hmm.
    33:23
    And let's see. What else do I got in the news here? I got Stern was at Comic-Con, and Keanu came over and played some WIC.
    33:31
    And it really didn't sound like he knew anything about it. He said, whoa, whoa, dude. He was like, how long did this take to make? That's the one question I heard.
    33:41
    I wonder if he even knew they were making it. Did he just see himself on the game? In the back of his mind, he's going, where's my royalties? Yeah, did I get paid for this? I'm sure he gets so many from royalties that he just gets a roll-up check. It would be more hilarious if he walked up and said, how come I'm not on this when any call asks? No one even asked me. Like, all pissed. I feel like that's what I would be wondering. Like, if you know what pinball is enough to be playing it, which it seemed like he at least had some. Yeah, he did. And he's like, presumably from his surprise, he never, like, was asked to do call-outs. Yes. Well, we called your manager, and he said, fuck you, and he wanted just $10,000. Yeah, probably someone in between just like, no. I think that was the story, wasn't it? Who did Nightmare on Elm Street? Was that Wes Craven?
    34:25
    Yes, Wes Craven. Like when he did the remake of it or whatever the hell it was, and they brought a bunch of the cast members back, he didn't even bother asking Johnny Depp because he figured he's too big a star. He would never do it. And then when he met Johnny Depp after he made the movie, he said, like, why didn't you call me? I totally would have done that.
    34:42
    I mean, hopefully it could be like Star Trek and they just add a whole bunch of Wick call-outs at the end. They dub them in. Yeah. I mean, it's not like it has that many call-outs so far. No, it does not. I really wish the other guy had died. I think that would have been, he would have been perfect. Mr. Rick, I will be able to help you as much as I can. Yes. Yeah, he would have been good too. Yeah.
    35:05
    All right. That guy. I don't know his name. What was he? He was like the hotel. He was the hotel concierge. Oh, concierge. And the front desk guy, yes, but he would take care of it. The front desk guy. He was. I always remember him from Fringe. Yeah, he was on Fringe. He was on a couple other things, too. All right. The next thing I got, which Zach can speak to this, Pinberg.
    35:32
    That was the date the event happened while we were away. Since we haven't recorded since the middle of July. Long time. Yes. So, Pinberg. What do we think of Pinberg? Let's see. I got notes here. Game setups. I guess there was people complaining about things like, you know, removing the center post on S.T.A.R.S. And the outlaying. Removing everything on Rush.
    35:59
    At least Rush you can, like, make some arguments, but, like, why do people on S.T.A.R.S.? When I brought S.T.A.R.S. to the Beast, which we'll be talking about a little later on, I didn't touch it. Yes. Well, the funny thing is, at the Beast, we were streaming Starz, and it must have had at least 8 to 10 center posts. It did. It was awesome. And the game still played fast. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the setups for both, you know, they're trying to keep a time. I know all the stuff that people were saying. I know. So, if you get to the point where you have to bastardize it that much, maybe just don't use the game. Yeah, or do something else. I mean, it's not like they haven't tapped people in the past either. Like, I don't remember any of our rounds taking the whole two and a half hours or whatever to begin with. And they do have a mechanism to deal with this. It's not like they're trying to get every TGP out of it. They've got TGP to spare. It wasn't like they were all like that, like the Barracora. Yeah, of all things to set up easy. Yeah, that didn't play hard at all. The game that never plays long ever in other tournaments. I was on it forever.
    37:13
    Two of my three balls, I was on it forever, and I still lost because Trent Augustine came back on his third ball and beat me. And millions and millions of points.
    37:24
    And, yeah, it was just endless two-ball multi-ball. I mean, you could just do it over and over and over again. So I figured they wouldn't use that in finals, but they did. and it made it take a long time. They only took, like, 16 to finals, so even if it took a long time, like, they had all day. You know, there was no time crunch there. Still, it played too easy. Yeah. But then other things played hard. That's another game that just, like, should not be in tournaments anymore at this point. Ah, yeah, like that, Sorcerer, I don't care how much you bastardize it, just don't put it in there. Lord of the Rings, don't put it in there. There's certain games, just don't put it in. Rescue 911, we learned, don't put it in there. Don't put it in there. Yeah, don't put it in there. Just certain games, just don't put it. Well, to be fair, it's not like they have the amount of games they used to have.
    38:11
    There you go. Totally true. They only have, what, 100? They have 100. Well, here's the interesting thing. Here's the – I think it was 60 games, I think it was. I made a little note here. I have heard this before, but this time I heard it, and we can hear Zach typing. It's great. Yeah, thanks, Zach. Thank you. So I heard this again, so I figured I'll bring it up. And then Bruce typing. and good job.
    38:37
    When Pinberg announced that, you know, we're... Coming back. No, no, before that. We're going away, or we're selling all the games and all that. Oh. And there was this whole thing where people were like, why didn't they at least set up like a GoFundMe or whatever? Or GoFuckMe or whatever. We could have saved it and all that, and I still don't... They needed hundreds of thousands of dollars. Do you think people would have given that much money?
    39:00
    Are we saying like every, like all thousand people who went would just gladly $100, but there's $100K. And even that I don't think was near enough. I think the loan that was up was like for, was it $400K? I can't remember. It was something like that. But I heard this again, because I've heard this before, but I heard it again from someone else who I. Reliable source. Our news agency. When that happened, there was someone who came forward, like a angel investor or whatever you want to call it, who offered, like, I'll fit the bill.
    39:34
    And Kevin Martin said no. Dead silence. Yeah, I don't know who the person was, but I've heard this before, but I heard it again. What do you think about that? It could have been someone he hated. It could have been. It could have been, like, the worst person. Like, no way, we're not going there. Sorry. Listen, brother. I mean, I'd almost like to say he just didn't want to do it anymore, but, I mean, that's obviously not true because he was there for this pinberg, doing his usual, he enters all the scores in because it's his system that he programmed that's used for pinberg. I'd be more curious if he's just doing it the next pinberg, because, like, this could have been, like, a transfer year or something. I didn't see anyone else other than him doing it. That's the thing. They were using Neverdrains, Carl DeAngelo's software, for a bunch of it, but then it would forward you to the Pinberg site that's using the same system with the same score sheets. And I saw him there. He was entering them in like he always does.
    40:34
    But I thought that was interesting because I know a lot of people, when it happened, like, why didn't they set up the GoFundMe? They could have been saved, et cetera, et cetera. And they obviously want to keep doing it being that they did it again.
    40:49
    Dead silence. No other discussion on that? I don't know why he would do what he did, except for maybe, as you said, he was just, maybe he was burnt out from it. And I know he doesn't really usually interview, and it doesn't strike me as the kind of person that would say anyway. It's like, it's none of your business. No, it's not your business. Guess what? It could be true. That's what he would probably say. Yeah.
    41:12
    I just thought that was interesting. Yeah. Well, now we only have a pin burger of 144 people and maybe more next time. There's supposed to be more next time. Yeah. I think they need another venue already. Yeah, I know. I heard it was pretty stretched there. No, it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't bad. No. The game's spaced out like Pinberg-wide, you know. Which is good. That's the good thing. It's not like being at almost any other tournament ever where they're just all crammed in. How many bathrooms did they have?
    41:38
    I never had to wait. You got to go by the Timmy number of how many bathrooms and how many stalls, you know. We need the Timmy checklist. The Timmy checklist. Well, okay, guys. What's the Timmy checklist? What are you referring to?
    41:51
    What we talked about in the past. The Timmy checklist. It's the Timmy checklist. So it's the video, the YouTube video Timmy made about, what, how tournaments, they're better if they're in big cities and have plenty of food options and all the Whopper farms are on literal farms and there's not enough weight. So he's spoiled because he's now a big city folk in Chicago. When he used to be a country boy where he had to go all over the place. Country boy. And get these pinball tournaments to work. Okay. Sure. But you need to have at least how many bathrooms? What, you know, not more than one or two porta-potties, right? That was the picture he used in his video.
    42:33
    I don't know where he was talking about. But we have a lot of bathrooms. Where do we have a lot of bathrooms, Zach? At the Rochester Pinball Collective, Bruce. Wow, where's that, Zach? Rochester, New York.
    42:49
    Not in Minnesota. Yeah, okay. I know your address better than you do. Exactly. I know it, but it's no fun to say it. Oh, it's great when you say it. Oh, I'm just looking at Zach's comment here. Five-finger death plunge. That could be the T-shirt. I like it. Disgusting, yes. Are we still breaking up for you?
    43:10
    No, I think my entire internet just dropped for like two minutes straight. Cool. But not completely, just like it.
    43:17
    Yeah, because I heard Ron perfectly. Oh, yeah, your sound changed. You're louder now. I've got to lower you again. There we go. You're just neutered again. Yeah, I didn't keep the settings. Yeah, I had to refresh the entire screen feed. You would not recover. All right, so you got booted. All right. I got the boot. Your internet sucks.
    43:37
    Luckily, I got new internet soon. Oh, yes. We've got to congratulate Zach. There will be a new home for Deathball.
    43:45
    We hope. Did you get green light? Yep, just got that set up before we recorded. Nice. So what did you go with? Five megabits. Yeah, that's what I have, so it's totally fine. For those at home, Zach got a new house. Or a house. He's a new homeowner. How exciting.
    44:05
    A new homeowner. He's turning, oh yeah, when are you turning 30? It's any day now, isn't it? The 29th. Oh, okay. You've still got a couple more weeks until it's over. Then your pinball history, you're totally done. You're just one of the old guys now. Actually, being over 25, he kind of is already done. He's already done, yes. It's been for a while. Technically, I hit my peak at like 27 or 28. Ah, the 27th row. That really means I should have started earlier. Because then I could have peaked at my skills, even though I peaked at my physical abilities and could have actually done something in my life. Instead, you finished behind me at pinball. Yes. Wow. Just had to bring that up. Yeah, it's all because of roller games. Yes. I ended up 60 and 60, which kind of sucked because it's like I was never there. I wasn't a loser or a winner. I was nothing. It's like I didn't exist. We were doing pretty good. We were in A division and then somehow still like your average pretty car thing is just 50-50, like absolutely nothing after all that work. Yeah. Well, we were at the bottom of A, where we needed something like seven and a half to eight wins a round at the end to make playoffs, which wasn't going to happen.
    45:19
    But, yeah, I was really hoping to be like 61 and 59. That would have been great. But it's better than being 59 and 61 like other people. Right, Zach? Yeah.
    45:32
    Don't have a one both days, folks. Doesn't help. Zach was a loser. Loser. Just saying. I'm telling you, like, wake up earlier or something, I guess. Yeah, I don't get it. You're a better player than me, Zach. And all these EMs and stuff, you should, like, be kicking my ass. Just didn't happen.
    45:52
    I don't think we never played in the same group, did we? Yeah, we never played each other, despite having very similar scores. Yeah, very similar scores. And I played, like, a lot of the same banks. Many. Yep, we played in the same banks. And I had many plays that I played, like, over and over and over again, too. Yes, same here, yeah. Which I guess is probably why, because we were just playing the same other people over and over. Yes. And not each other. Yes. It was really, I feel like the tiered Switch should not do that as much as it did. Hmm. But it did it a ton. I think I had the same person for like three rounds in a row, multiple times. And the winners, let's see, I got, I got that up here. I'm prepared. That's why it's taking so long. What do you mean that's why it's taking so long? I'm literally looking at it, butthole. You just took a long pause there while you looked it up. Yeah, because I only have one monitor here on this laptop, so I have to. Yeah, and alt-tapping takes a long time to slowly render the screen. No, I'm running it on a different browser butthole. I'm not going to explain everything to you, but whatever. Now, you forgot. I forgot what I was even doing. Oh, yeah, the winner of Pinnberg was Jason Zoller.
    46:57
    Yay. The best player in the world, right, Bruce? Come on. Give some props here. I saw him lose this weekend. Oh, Jesus Christ. We haven't even got to that yet. I thought you'd be happy. Like, when he was up, he was actually up.
    47:14
    He was told and warned. How do you know? You weren't even there. No, not there. I'm talking at the Beast. We haven't gotten that far yet. We haven't gotten that far. Yeah, I didn't watch any of it. At Pinberg, he was up when he was supposed to be up. Congratulations. You are the champion of the world.
    47:32
    And Escher was second, but we're going to... Get to that with the Bs. Let's see. And then Alexander Kismarchik was third, and Zach McCarthy was fourth. Again, everyone like 21 or younger, something like that. I mean, I think it was saying that until next year when they're 22. It was like, wow, 22 or younger. Yeah. Well, it's good. Just say 25 and younger, and you'll always be right. And you'll be good for four years. Yes. Let's see. I'm not going to go through all four for all this. The B winner was Brandon Gentry. Congratulations.
    48:02
    Our own Andy Cushman. From Syracuse was fourth. Congrats. Actually, I guess I should say the other ones, man. Augustus Estes was second, and Greg Gallanter was third.
    48:16
    Augustus, did you do well in the tournament? I don't get it. Do you know who Augustus is? Whipped, Debra Tallman first, Valencia Kelly second, Leslie Ruckman third, and Zoe Rabel fourth.
    48:33
    And then there was the bash thing. The Bash at the Bird. Which had a very cool trophy. Which had a very cool trophy? Okay. I don't know who won that. Who won that? A pinball player. Ah, you're very good. Under the age of 25.
    48:49
    Like when I click on it. In a world where pinball players are under 25 and dominating, here comes a new hope. I don't know who won that because I'm clicking on it and it doesn't go anywhere.
    49:01
    Like literally. It says bash playoffs. I click on it and nothing happens. Kyle. So I don't know what happens. Let me try. Try a new tab. Nope, that did nothing.
    49:17
    So whoever won that, congratulations. Let's see. What else do I got here? I think that's it for that. Yeah, that's it for that. Also at Pinberg, I got some pin steps.
    49:31
    Do you know what they are, Bruce? I do. I had to use them this past weekend. You used some pin steps? I didn't have to, but other people had to. I had to be.
    49:41
    Hey, it's from Jockton, who is a listener, so be nice. I'm not saying anything different. I didn't have to use them, except for mine. My legs are long enough. Are yours? Are your leg levelers long enough? No, they're not, Bruce. Did you bust out the four inches, Bruce? Yeah, I have four inches of leg leveler. So I use the pin steps, which are basically you put the casters in these things and they make it taller. I use them in the back legs of the countdown. So it is not nearly as floaty now. Bruce's countdown? Bruce's countdown. Yeah, you see how you almost forgot about that? No, I didn't say my countdown. I said Bruce's countdown. I said the countdown. Yeah, I didn't say my countdown. Not my countdown. Yes. Not my countdown, but it's my countdown. And also, Tom was on our episode 219. You remember Tom? He had a cool idea for a segment.
    50:38
    Want to hear it? Yeah! That doesn't sound very excited, Bruce. Yeah! Okay. Basically, take an older game, like, for example, use Attack from Mars. That's the example we used. And pretend that's made in today's climate. Well, you'll see why it has to be 90s. Say that. The game we all know as AFM is the premium.
    51:05
    What would you remove to make it a pro? All the bopper dudes. Yeah, all the bopper dudes. And no interactive, what's it called, spaceship.
    51:17
    It wouldn't move at all? It wouldn't move at all. And not even any... Get rid of the lock diverter. Yeah. You just make it virtual lock. Mm-hmm.
    51:29
    And that's about it. That's all. Oh, it would be LED now, so you have to put bulbs in it. Just make it cheaper. That would be more expensive, Bruce. No, it's not. You could put them all in one giant surface mount board. Yes. You know, like some other game we had to work on recently. Yeah, still have to. What about Medieval Madness? I mean, you figure you have to have the castle, right? It has to still. Or no. It's just a static castle. You're not going to make a rock. You're just going to do lighting effects. Do you at least give them the drawbridge?
    52:00
    Yeah. But the castle just doesn't move. No, the drawbridge would not have a motor. It would just be down all the time. And you'd have to go through the gate. Oh, kind of like Rush. It's just a static. Exactly, yes. And the dragon wouldn't be like a sculpted piece. It'd just be a flat plastic. It'd be like, what's the, you know, piece of the dragon. I mean, the whole castle could be a flat plastic, really. Oh, that would be one big ass. And it's like Pete's dragon. That's the dragon you're going to get. Instead of a nice, sculpted, beautiful dragon, you're going to get Pete's dragon from the Disney movies. Oh, and they can replace the one-way controlled gates with a single up post. Yep. A post to block it. And just ruin the flow completely. Trolls, you just put like, you know, trolls are gone. You just put Eddie switches where you roll over them in certain modes and it lights up a little flasher. We want the same play field, so what do we do? We just put like covers over it? Like what do we do for that? You just put an insert of a picture of a troll that lights up. There you go. Yes. Yeah. There you go. It flashes. Mm-hmm. Although I can't make me forget to hear that the AFM remake, Classic Edition, cost $6,500, which is now less than the CERN Pro. Yeah. And it still had all the stuff in it. Hmm. Everything. Even L.A.D. Everything.
    53:13
    All right. So that's... Anything else for Pinbur? Nope. Okay. The Beast Because the weekend after Pinberg we have another tournament That I went to It's the Muppet Show No it's the Beast in Buffalo, New York At Pocketeer Billiards Where I got to play I played pretty much Primarily classics I just played enough entries In the main to actually Not qualify But to have a complete entry You need what nine different games in Maine. I don't think I've ever seen a tournament that was that many for Herb. There were 18 games to qualify to, so it was half.
    54:01
    It was still nine. Well, Classics was seven. Classics was seven out of twelve. That's still a lot. I know.
    54:09
    But, Ron, you didn't beat me. Yeah, you didn't play. No, instead, Bruce was announcing So he's announcing one of the finals in a tournament sponsored by American Pinball, and they're playing Houdini and just bash it the entire time. Oh, I hated that fucking thing. I mean, ladies and gentlemen, this isn't a gimmick. He just doesn't care. I don't care. It literally is scrolling by. American Pinball is one of the sponsors. Houdini sucks. This game sucks. God, it's fucking terrible. Like, Jesus Christ, Bruce. Come on. Zach, am I wrong? I mean, you're not wrong. I'm just amazed that people still let you on the air. Yeah, I know, but still. I mean, I'm surprised that there's anywhere besides this podcast that's your own podcast that will let you actually talk. Yeah, I agree. It keeps happening. I love it. That's the amazing thing. And they wanted him for Pinnberg. Yes. Believe it or not, folks, they wanted him. He was going to do commentary Pinnberg. He shared like 5% more back then. But then he actually made playoffs and couldn't do it. Yes. And I was like, wow, they want you? They wanted me. because they had rules at Pinburg. Yes, they did. No swearing, no nothing. You can't call TNA. It's total nuclear annihilation, etc. Lots of rules.
    55:27
    I know. I was going to get you next to the beast and then there'll be a shoot just like, you cannot bash American Pinburg. No, it'll be just electric shock therapy. It'll be electric shock therapy. As soon as I start thinking it, oh yeah, yeah. I think if the beast, they'll let him do it. District 82, they let him do it. Oh, yeah. Because you can kind of just sit in there and announce a game or so. But, you know, things like Indus, Pinberg, Bruce is never going to be allowed anywhere near. Oh, I will. You watch the show. Okay. That ought to be funny. Yeah, that would be great.
    56:01
    But, yeah, I didn't play. I actually teched the whole time. And, of course, the two games I bring, both break down. Those stars broke down eventually? I lost the Chime unit again. The same one? Stainy? No, different coil this time. Okay. It's blowing up the cap.
    56:20
    Which means all those caps. I know. Maybe there's like a bad batch of caps on that board. He must have had a bad batch of caps because as soon as I cut the cap out, guess what I got? I have a coil now again, but I ordered a new one just to be safe. I had spare ones off my other chime unit. And also, it should probably lower the fuse value.
    56:40
    It's a quarter-inch slow blow. A quarter-inch slow blow. Wait, a quarter-inch? You mean a quarter-amp? A quarter-amp. Sorry, a quarter-amp slow blow. I mean, it is also a quarter-inch in diameter, but that's not a helpful statement. But what am I supposed to do, 0.125? Yeah. I could do a 3.8. I could do a 3.8, too. No, 3.16. 3.16, yeah. 3.8 or more, yeah. But, I mean, that blew again. I was like, oh, well, who needs sound and stars? Just try a unit. And then you're going to love this one, Zach. The coil melted in the Gammatron. Yeah, I heard. Because the EOS switch broke. Broke how? The actual metal fatigued so bad that it snapped off. But snapped off in a way that still conducts current? Well, no, it was actually just doing, I guess, the high all the time, and then when people are holding the ball and trapping up. Wait a minute. Isn't it a normally closed switch, though? Yeah. How would it break off? Let me see how they wired it. They actually have two switches. They tried it. When you see it, Zach, you're going to go, what the fuck? It's two single switches wired in parallel stacked, which makes no sense to me. It's more current capacity if you have two switches. True. I agree with that. I can see that part. But you still have it in series. Not in parallel. In series, I mean, it was. So the way it broke was the second switch not being actuated anymore? Exactly. Okay. So that's what happened. Hmm. It literally snapped off and melted the coil, which you can't get exact numbers. Yeah, GammaTron has a lot of weird, like, they have extra big dials on all the coils. All the, every coil. They required you to, like, replace the cabinet flipper switches, too, with, like, special high current ones. Like, they were really, like, concerned with the high power of GammaTron, apparently. But everyone was loving it. I had some people come and say, thanks for bringing that. I said, well, you got to thanks back next time you see them. Like, thanks, man. You guys owe it to me. The Zach. Me. Zach. And then Stars was so good, it went into the main bank on Sunday to fill in Gamitron's spot. Oh.
    58:50
    Yep. And it was actually the tiebreaker game for the finals if we needed it. Now, Bruce, I heard that unlike Stars, they did pull some posts on Gamitron. I did, yes.
    59:02
    So what did you change? I pulled out the two upper posts. Just completely? pulled them out because it was playing pretty long. Oh, I'd expect it to play long. Did it touch the lower posts, or are they still rubber? They're still rubber. Okay. So did it play still fair, but just faster now? Just faster. I consider even doing that at RPC, so... It's an open gobble hole on the sides now, you know.
    59:26
    It really is. The skinny stern posts instead of the star posts. But it worked really well, and people didn't have long playing games. The longest playing, I think the highest score was 2.7 million. It's still pretty good. So, one of the other things that people are complaining about were the really tight tilts. I didn't set them up, thank God. The only ones I set up were my own games, the Stars and the Gametron, and Ron, did you hear anything bad about those? No. The first couple games I played in Classics, I literally tilted flipping. Yeah, luckily games from RPC have already been set up for tournaments. Anyway, the first tilt. They actually tightened up the tilt on Star is a Hare. Like, Gamatron was perfect, and he's like, oh, don't touch that, you know. Don't touch that. It was good. And then I started adjusting the tilts for Sunday, and they were like, oh, that's pretty good. And when we had to change them for the Classics finals, I changed them, and everyone was really happy. So I think I got the tilt thing down. Well, you know how I did?
    60:31
    No. So, Zach, what do you think about tilts? I feel like we need to get the tilt gauge that Titan sells and now give it to all TDs. Exactly. Put it up in there and how deep is your tilt? We have a range of approved tilts for classics of different types that you can just choose from. But some of them were really bad. I felt bad for one guy. He's like, I tilted three times. Can you check if something's leaning against the tilt, Bob? I opened up the door. And I'm like, no, nothing's bad. I barely close it, and suddenly, brr, it tilts again. Luckily, it was a stern. I was like, wow, that is tight.
    61:12
    And I plunged the ball, and it went back down, and then he got the ball back. He's like, oh, is that going to affect me? I'm like, no. It's a newer stern. Okay, like I was saying, I made A finals.
    61:21
    So what else do you think about tilts? I'm ready for the accelerometer-based digital tilt. You ready for my A finals? Did you tilt during it? No, I didn't tilt. because you know why Some guy adjusted your tilt So Did he use all that bonus to get to the first round Ron I think he did because he blew his wad and got nothing
    61:46
    Yeah, I did pretty good, and I had to improve a couple scores, and I kind of. You were going for it the whole time most of the night. No, I wasn't. I improved on Stargazer, but I was still lower in the. I was worried about bleeding out. so I decided to focus on Dolly and played that over and over and then I got a 1.2 million on Dolly which was the number one score with an hour left in qualifying and I was 4th so I was like good I can eat so I ate and then qualifying ended and I was 8th I dropped 4 spots in an hour Jesus but still that got me a bye which was good because I obviously sucked in the playoffs as I took a big fat 0 Got nothing. Last all three games.
    62:37
    That sucked. It wasn't pretty to watch, folks, either. It really was. So what did you do wrong, Ron? Break it down for us. Break it down, Barney style. That just sucked. What? It wasn't good. Never heard Barney style? I never heard. I have no idea what he was talking about, either. Break it down, Barney style. Did you get a flipper decision? Oh, yeah. I got flipper decisions. I just sucked. Yeah. Made bad decisions. Yeah, I have no excuses. Decided not to aim well. I don't make excuses.
    63:05
    I don't make excuses. We did a lot of repairs there. A lot of stern coil stops. Oh, God. We did, I think, four links and coil stops.
    63:19
    Classics. A was won by Gregory Kennedy. And second was Nick Greenan. And then third, Alberto Santana. Fourth was Paul Karras.
    63:31
    And in B finals, we got CJ, CJ1, CJ Smith. Then, oh, I don't want to butcher this. It's obviously a Canadian name. Let's just say JPG are his initials. Then Benjamin Furga. I'm probably butchering his name, too. And then Andy Cushman was fourth in B for classics. Then I left I wasn't there Sunday for the main finals Which sounded like they went a while Did they go a while, Bruce? Yeah, they went fairly well I didn't think it was anything It went quick, it was actually pretty easy So it didn't go a while, it was quick in your view Well, for the Statue of players The stature of players Wow, I love this The stature The stature.
    64:28
    Oh, okay. You know, there's a lot of good players. Yeah, in the finals we had the kids. Yes. So we had the winner was Escher. Escher Lefkoff won with Jason Zahler in second, Jared August in third, and Matt Richardson in fourth. I got to play me some Barry O too. They had two Barry Os there. They had one they put up front that was on free play. They had another one that was in the women's tournament for like an hour or two before. So which one broke first? The one in the women's tournament. The second one did not break. The second one did not break at all. Yeah, the one in the women's lasted a couple hours. I mean, it was really early on that was pulled. And the ones, speaking of the women's, in the women's you had Valencia Kelly in first, Christina Capra in second, Alicia Parks in third, and Gabby Antea. I'm saying that wrong. And four.
    65:27
    Gabby A. There you go. And then they had these other tournaments, which, like, they had the Crazy Eights, which was something they had Sunday.
    65:36
    And let's see, who won that? Was it, like, a non-IFPA tournament? No, it was an IFPA tournament. It was just you had to play 14 games, and your top eight counted.
    65:49
    That's why they called it Crazy Eights. So you had to play eight different games of the 12 that were available. You got 14 entries, and your best scores counted in each one. You can replay one game five times if you wanted to, but you still had to play eight games. Okay. I have no idea who won because they gave up. No, Mike Dimas won. Oh, he did. Okay. They gave up on updating the site because it's got Mike Dimas and Ken Grant in a playoff, and then the result is nothing. Playoff. Like, it doesn't have any scores. It has nothing. So they just gave up.
    66:22
    Or forgot to update it. Mike Dimas won. There you go. So, anyway, he's Canadian, right? So a Canadian wants something. Fixed, and he's old, too. And he's old. Wow. He just called you old, Mike. So that was the Beast. I got me some Whoppers, so I should hopefully hold steady in the New York State. He's probably all right. We'll see if I'm still even in there anymore after the Beast. They haven't updated any of the points yet. That's what we'll have to see. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, you'll probably be out. But there'll be all kinds of people that won't play in New York State Finals anyway, so you're probably still fine. Most of the people at the Beast probably also played in, like, at least some of the New York tournaments already were already up there. There was a good contingent of New York City people there. Yeah, people who are already in New York. That's true. So, there you go. They kind of had to if they want to stay up there. Because they don't have any large tournaments in New York City for some reason. They have little ones. Some of the little ones. Yeah, the New York City Pinball Championships didn't seem – doesn't seem like it's happening. No. It's coming. May of 2029 with lots of bathrooms, lots of food around there. And great parking, too. And you only have to play an hour or two, you know, and then you can go look at the city and check everything around it. Yes, the next big tournament, or one of the next big tournaments, Papa is coming back. It's going to be in Chicago this time, September 5th through the 8th, At Interium in Schaumburg, Illinois. I just figured I'd mention that. Yes, it will be. Very cool.
    68:01
    I think that's it for tournaments, and people are probably saying, thank God. They're probably snoring by now. Yeah, they are.
    68:07
    I think I already mentioned this, but ABBA production has begun. Are you excited, Bruce? I like the music. Take a chance on me. Take a chance, take a chance, take a chance, take a chance, take a chance. All I do is play a spell. Oh, wait a minute. So, Zach, do you know who ABBA is? Do you know any ABBA songs at all? They're a band, right? Yes, they are. Very good. That's a one point for Zach. I'm going to guess they're from Europe. That's two points for Zach. And they have a song that sounds basically like the stuff that Bruce has been singing. That's a three point. I've never heard the song that Bruce is singing, though. Waterloo? Waterloo. Dancing Queen? Ever hear that? I have heard Dancing Queen. There you go. Take a chance on me. I didn't know it was by ABBA. Yeah, that's by ABBA. Yes. Also Tick a chan, tick a chan Tick a chan, tick a chan, chan, chan Speaker lighting kits Have been released by Stern Yay, that's something I needed Yeah Oh god, I totally wasn't available before It's more It's programmed in the game now It's going to go along with all the other lighting Isn't that exciting? Like the special lights that you can also use Yes Yes. It's more epileptic seizures for everyone around the world. Oh, come on. Yeah, now you need an extra big pin shield to block the extra glare. So it's going to be for, well, right now it's just the newer games. So Jaws, John Wick, I think Godzilla because they just did the 70th anniversary, whatever. And I think there was one more. I'm kind of waiting until they're available for some of the older games. I'm assuming that's going to happen. Like games you own? Yeah. Like maybe brush. That would be nice to have ones that go along with the expression lighting. That would be cool. You literally can buy those. They already exist. But they're not stirred.
    69:57
    Okay. That's actually all I got. I went in order, too, of the topics. So while I have repairs, you want to do other repairs before we get to the ball bag? Because there's a bunch of stuff in the ball bag. I love my ball bag. Oh, the other thing I didn't mention about. I talked to Escher when I was there, and he is more than willing to argue with you, Zach, about certain games.
    70:21
    Like, he thinks Star Wars sucks. He has good taste. And he has many reasons why he thinks it sucks. Like, he has an argument, if you will. I've heard many things that could be better in Star Wars. I just still think it's good.
    70:34
    You know, there's small side things that can't eclipse the majesty. Yeah, but he can explain to you why it sucks, why it's not good. Hmm. Yeah, but he probably likes Iron Maiden, so what's the point? Of course he probably likes Iron Maiden. It sucks. Iron Maiden sucks? No. Incorrect. Star Wars.
    70:54
    Sucks. It sucks. What? Okay. Repairs. Star Wars sucks. It sucks. What do you got for repairs?
    71:02
    We're still working on Counterforce, trying to get that all done. And Star Race. How close are you, Zach? I peeked in today. I mean, I keep eating more parts. Great. Luckily, you ordered more PBR. I ordered, and I adjusted it because they asked for colors, even though you give them a part number. It doesn't say. So I had to give them the colors today and my coil numbers. Oh, you got yelled at by PBR? Yeah. What color, asshole? Here's the part number. What color? In the description on the parts list, I wrote the colors. I see that. So, I don't know what the problem is. You should just put an R, G, or B, or Y after it. You know, imagine going to the manual and reading the part numbers off the manual and then giving them to PBR. Would be the only way to go. That's what I did. I literally gave them part numbers in the manual, and then they're like, meh. Fail.
    71:58
    What else did we repair so far? I got to repair the board, which I started to, and get a new coil for stars. Then I'm going to replace the... The EOS switch and the coil for Gamitron, which is already on order also. And what else? What else do we have repairs? There's not much been broken at the RPC lately. It's been a pretty good week. Oh, what's going on with Taxi? I saw that was down. Well, let's check our issue tracker, Bruce. You have access to it. I do not.
    72:31
    Left flipper link missing nut. Get a nut. How hard is that? Cannot find a matching nut. Huh? You have a hardware store right next to your place. Maybe they have it. It might have been closed by that point of the day or so. It might have been closed by that time, yeah. But, like, that game could probably use a flipper rebuild at this point anyway. It's been out on the floor for a while. Judge Dredd, endless multiball. Fix it. What do you mean, endless multiball? I think it's just how good you're playing. No, it gives you a ball, then it just spits out another one, and it spits out another one, like every ball, and it just goes on and on. That's called Super Game? No, it's not. I'm not playing Super Game.
    73:10
    Yeah, so some chop-off-the-issue? Definitely not-so-issue. It is confused at how many balls. But at no point when it spits the extra balls out does it actually put you in multi-ball. It's still everything's in single ball. It thinks it's in single ball.
    73:24
    Nothing else? Stupid WPC games. Stupid game! We have to figure out Tommy still with the blinders. I hope he got a new motor.
    73:35
    We tried, like, three motors, and they don't work. Yeah, but he said you might want to try rewiring it, and he's going to try to get the same exact motor that was in there for the numbering, so who the fuck knows.
    73:45
    Hopefully we'll get rid of IJ this week. They were there today. They were there a few minutes ago. And Miles Cooper's been having crypt lock issues, so I tore the whole thing down and realigned the optos and stuff and made sure there was no issues whatsoever, and then I reassembled the whole thing, and then there was crypt lock issues again. which we think is the opto is bad. That's what I'm hoping. So now I have to tear it apart again. Yeah, because you were trying to replace it with it still together, which. Well, no, I got a bendy screwdriver now from Harbor Freight. Yeah, I tried to talk him out of it. Yeah, a bendy screwdriver, that would still be a hell of a time trying to get the opto out. But he's like, no. Go, Spooky, go. No, I'm not taking it apart again. I don't want to ever take the thing apart ever again. So I'm guessing at Deathball, it'll just have, like, the entire crypt blocked off, which is like, no. Go, Spooky, go. I mean, to be fair, this is, like, the one issue, like, every manufacturer of Optos has. And it's still more serviceable than Star Trek. This is true. Oh, you mean Stern Star Trek. Yeah, with its stupid Optos on its lock that have problems. Stupid Optos! Require you to take apart so much shit to get to them. Thanks, Steve Ritchie. Yeah, that's right. So you've somehow gone downhill since the other Star Trek in terms of repairability. Look at ACDC. That flasher and the right sling. You think you can just pop that dome off? No, you can't. You've got to take the whole fucking thing off. You've got a long history of very consistent repairability. I mean, that still bothers me. You've got to take the whole fucking thing off and get at it from underneath. Like, it's not like a Williams one where you just turn the dome and it pops off and you replace the ball. What's the fucking problem? I don't understand. Just, oh, it makes me so angry.
    75:34
    I have no repairs, by the way. Wow, all your games work? Until Stomp, yes, they work. I'm sure after that, they will not work. So we've got one or two more months, and then they'll all be broken. Let's talk about Stomp for a few minutes, folks. We have 40 positions saved right now with 11 people on our wait list.
    75:54
    So can we, like, empty out the garage and put some games in there? Yeah, I think that's a good idea. No. Stop.
    76:02
    Why is that a bad idea, Ron? Stop. No, I don't want to do that. Why is that a bad idea? He doesn't want to go 48 either. No. He just hates those 11 people. He just hates them really bad. He personally wants to punch them in the gut. We had 48 people at one time, and it was bad. But we didn't use the garage that time.
    76:20
    I don't know. I just don't want that many people. Ron hates people. Yep, Ron hates people. You heard it here first, folks. Me and Zach are very friendly to people, but not Ron.
    76:32
    Mm-hmm. Okay. We're assholes. I love it. Yes, you are. We'll still work on them because we have at least, really, 50 days. Yeah, it ain't going to 48. I'll tell you that just straight up. That's not happening. So send your guilt tripping straight to. Straight to RodHallisEmail.com. Yeah, you can. All right. Ready for the ball bag? I'm always ready for my ball bag to be played with. The male ball bag, ladies and gentlemen. We answer your questions. Live on location. Starting with Michael, who says. Hi, Mike. Don't sleep on Airbus. Better quality control. I think he's talking about France. Oh, French manufacturing. Oui, oui.
    77:18
    A whole lot of it. Better quality control than our friends in Seattle, unfortunately. Oh, God, yeah. They might as well just give you ejector seats with parachutes when it comes to a Boeing lately.
    77:31
    Yes, it is. Yes. And they might not tighten all their screws, so you better watch out. You never know what might happen. You better watch out. You better not cry. You better pray for fuck's sake you got in a Boeing. Yeah. Yeah, you started good, and then it fell apart badly. Yeah, it fell apart really bad. Yeah, really bad. Okay. Oh, let's see.
    77:55
    This is from Mark. Hi, Mark. For games that suck with spinners. Oh, yeah, I think. We did ask. Yeah, we got asked that on Facebook. He says, Perry Ho's Barbecue Challenge. The place is so bad and watching it on location, it never gets played because we all know it sucks. Wow. Actually, it got played a ton at the piece. It doesn't shoot bad. It's just American Pinball's sound sucks. It really does. The sound is very tinny. Yes. Oh. I don't know why. It's like, let's not add any bass to anything. And it's way more apparent when you have it right by Elton John and it's cracked up. Yeah. Pretty bad. I don't get that either.
    78:39
    Let's see. This was from Glenn. Hey, Glenn. Oh, so, God, what's this going to be? Podcast thoughts. Hello, co-hosts. Bruce Lee. I'd like, I guess, well, actually, me and Bruce are co-hosts. Zach, what are you? You're the other host. He's our Ed McMahon.
    79:00
    Here's Rod and Bruce. Yes. Yes, a great one. Yes, you're right, Bruce. Yes. I don't know who that is come on I knew that was coming that's like your fucking line for everything I think you use that even if you know who it is way too much now I literally don't know who that is I've never lied about not knowing who these people are I've never lied about not there's like pop culture if you separate in half I know one half and you guys know the other half okay have you ever heard of Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon With Jimmy Fallon. I've heard of him. Okay. Have you heard of Jay Leno? Yeah, he's a car collector. Yes, and he also was the host of The Tonight Show. And before that, it was Joan Rivers and a couple other wackos. No, she was a guest host. She wasn't. She was on so long, it was like a host. No, she was on a guest host until she got her own show, and that pissed Johnny off so that she was banned. Yeah. Then we have Johnny and Ed McMahon. Ed McMahon was his sidekick. Literally, he would just announce him at the beginning and then sit there on the couch and laugh. Did you ever hear the song Who's Johnny from Weird Al? Nope.
    80:20
    What? I know right now Raymond's going, what? That's where it's from. Just listen to that. All right. Glenn says, hello, co-host. Firstly, I'd like to point out that you never answered Albert's question last episode. I'd like some clarity, please. I don't remember what the question was. Secondarily, the last episode you went to the fans of the podcast with questions. I didn't know is how to respond. I myself have been on the show and created some content. Does that make me a guest, co-host, super STD, STD spreader, or friend of the show? You can always spread your STDs around. Yeah, I will say you're a super spreader.
    81:04
    Thirdly, was Turd or Treasure a turd or treasure of a podcast segment? I was so excited every morning to open BidSide and see how many reviews Sir Fitzafari received, but alas, this game is not interesting enough to get reviews. It still needs six reviews to get it planted in the top 100. Help! I mean, I think the overlap between slim to listeners and top 100 readers is pretty slim. That game must be a turd. I don't think most of our clientele reads Pinstock. Clientele? Most of our clientele can't even read, Bruce. Come on. Oh!
    81:36
    That's why I listen to a podcast. Okay, please, people, six reviews. Surf and Safari, you've got to get it. You've got to get it in the top 100. Come on. I'm going to do it right now. Yes, Zach is doing it right now. He's doing all six because he can hack it somehow. He's a programmer. Layout, four to ten. Have a great week, and I hope people enjoyed playing Saw at Southern Fried. Glenn. P.S. Bruce-isms intentional. Oh, that's when I was confused reading him. He was impersonating you.
    82:09
    Can anyone really impersonate me? No, no one. Exactly. Thank you. Okay. We got, this is from Elko again. He was the one who's going to visit the Rochester Pinball Collective, remember? Okay. And? He says, hi, Ron and Bruce. Remember he said he writes for a magazine. The magazine is called Spinner. From the, oh God. Netherlands Flipper Vereniging They host the Dutch Pinball Open every year www.nsvpinball.nl Check it out, the Dutch Pinball Open I love pinball but really stuck at playing it We wanted to attend a tournament for some time But not much going on here The Dutch Pinball Open was sold out quick With 240 people attending Me not being one of them Playing our first tournament in the USA would be great And probably nice to write about being DFL. See you in October. Thanks, Elko. He's coming in October. He's coming the 12th of October. Bruce, make sure you're there.
    83:08
    I'm trying to think if I am or not. I got to look at my schedule. Change your schedule. Make it so. Make it so, number one, with a number two. Yes.
    83:18
    Yeah, that's York weekend. Whoops. I might be back by then, because I don't usually stay until Saturday.
    83:25
    So you go there for one day and leave? Yeah, I go there for Friday for the deals. So Cole says, what the fuckadoogoovers? I mean, gurus of the pinball universe. Okay. Ron, don't listen to Zach Mitty about the podcast on bingo machines on Silver Ball Chronicles, which can be found on the Pinball Network. Wow, he did it for me. I didn't say that. I think he said bingos are really boring and sucky. But that's why the podcast, by the way, Silver Ball Chronicles, which is with David Dennis and me. We talk about pinball history. You can listen to us on the Pinball Network. That's it. Your 10 seconds is up. My 10 seconds. That wasn't even 10 seconds, Apple. Yes, it was. No, it wasn't. Anything older than 2015 doesn't exist for him, meaning Zach Manning. Yes. As it is a history show, has relevance to pinball, and it's not written within the last 40 years. That's exactly what Silver Ball Chronicles, which can be found on the Pinball Network, is all about. Well, you've done it twice. I'm reading his email. You've got it twice now. You can look at it. I am reading it word for word. Okay, so that means I'm going to have to email every time, and then we'll get two plugs. I enjoy listening about the history of pinball from Silver Ball Chronicles, which can be found on the Pinball Network. I look forward to all the episodes.
    84:40
    Now that Bruce is totally melted down like the guy from Indiana Jones when they opened the arc. Wow, he just. Are you sure you're not making this up, Ron? I'm not making this up. Let's not stop there. Bruce, LEDs are not evil and work just fine. Just get the frosted warm white or sunlight from Comet if you want a little brighter. Being able to see using less energy and not burning the shit out of everything around the bulb is a good thing. While I agree that clown puke some people do to their machines is horrible. Some? Using, I don't do it. Most do. Using the frosted whites is good. And before you say they don't fade like the original, get an LED OCD board, you cheap bastard. if it supports it. If the game supports it, or if you really want to spend that money on it, because I'm cheap. I tried putting one of the mini-OCD boards in my Lethal Weapon 3. Boo! No! It's supposed to work for that, and it's supposed to work for the Stern DMDs. Lethal Weapon 3 needs to blind you constantly, or it's not the real thing. And it kept blowing the fuse, so I had to move it to my Iron Man set. I don't understand why it kept blowing the fuse. You must want shitty bias ply tires.
    85:51
    I love bias ply tires. Which suck compared to the newer, better radial tires. Nope. Radials are overrated because they cost too much money. Lots of belts make it better. Since you just had a birthday, you complaining about LEDs in older games is perfect, as it's the same as Grandpa Simpson yelling at clouds. Happy birthday, by the way, and wishing you many more. It's not my birthday yet. Tomorrow is. Oh, it's your birthday tomorrow. Yes, it is. Big 6-0. Yes. The Big 6-0. How does it feel? I don't know. You tell me how it felt for you.
    86:29
    How did it feel for you, Ron, since you're older than me? Let's see. How old will you be? 53? You're right. Yeah, I got that right. You know how old I am, Bruce? I'm 50. And that's like 65 when he has his little sweater on. He'll be walking around.
    86:48
    You mean with my daily power walking? Hi, I'm Mr. Rogers. I love kitties. Stop. Don't even go there, Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers is perfect, you asshole. Oh, he's such a perv. It wasn't even funny. No, nothing has ever come up with that, ever. It would have came up by now. Oh, no. You'd get well hidden in the closet. Oh, Jesus. I just played a tournament at Lynn's Arcade in Seaside, and they have changed up their lineup.
    87:19
    I finally got to play Pharaoh. Ugh. And Stern Electronics Iron Maiden. Ugh. They actually had the old Iron Maiden next to the new Iron Maiden, which I thought was pretty cool. Both games played good and thought they were fun to play for the most part. No, Pharaoh sucks. It seems like you just wanted to keep it on the upper play field on both. Yeah, just like every upper play field game. I think what made Pharaoh enjoyable is that you couldn't hear it. Okay. Rah, rah. Cobras. Unfortunately, I had a double disappointment when playing there. Number one, I couldn't take a good fisting as Dragon Fist was not working, and I always make sure I put in a few games on it when I go there. Two, I had to take a fisting I didn't want as Dialed In was back in the lineup. Had to do it. God, how I wish it would burst into flames. Sorry, Ron, but it still sucks. Wrong. Yes. Wrong. I love this guy. She didn't like him before, now you like him. I did play more John Wick, and while the code needs to mature more, which I believe will do, I like the way it shoots. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I would much rather play Wick than Venom or Star Wars. Totally agree. No, I'll put both of those over it. Whoa, even Venom? Yeah. So you would put pro Venom against Wick pro? No, you wouldn't. Maybe not pro-Venom. Oh, he got him. He got Zach on that one. Yeah, I'll put Venom Pro at the bottom, then Wick Premium, then Wick Pro, then Venom Premium.
    88:52
    Yeah. As for baseball teams, any home pin is the chewing tobacco spit on the floor of the dugout. Oh, terms. I'm sorry. As for baseball terms, any home pin is the chewing tobacco spit on the floor of the dugout. Spooky games are hit by pitch. Most, not all, JJP games are catcher's interference. They do have a single and a double, probably a triple with Elton John. American Pinball, this is when you were saying the slap singles thing. Yep. American Pinball are intentional walks with one single and hot wheels. Stern runs through the gambit of all the terms. Dutch, Haggis, and Pedretti are minor leagues and don't count. Well, Haggis is not there anymore. That's an old email as well. Yeah. Ask some couple episodes as usual. One of your DPX STDs, Cole. Cole, thank you. Hey, did you see the new picture from DPX?
    89:49
    Dual Penetration Extreme. Yeah, Dual Penetration Extreme. We have our own new logo now. Thanks. Alice in Wonderland. They have a picture of their little mini LCD screen. Yes. And it says DPX. Dual Penetration Extreme.
    90:06
    Okay, we have another one from Glenn. Oh, boy. Hosts, us tournament players are sick. Hey. We will travel hours, stay up late, smell BO. I always smell good. And be forced to mingle with folks we have little in common with. All in the name of tournament pinball. So why do we do it? For fame? Oh, yeah. Popularity? That's why Stu McVicker does it. Friendship? No, Stu doesn't have any friends. Friendship and a sense of community? Bragging rights? Money? Whoppers? I play for all these things. But sometimes I wonder what would happen if we took the money away. Would people stop playing?
    90:43
    I mean, Europe exists, so no. That's true. They don't have any money. Does District 82 get players because of a guaranteed purse? No, they do it for the love of the game. And Whoppers. Should pinball tournaments cost less? Would more casuals play big events? And would they be cheaper? I am just bitter because my $100 entry free to Expo will just go to a tournament player that already won a machine this year. And an ice cream truck, maybe. But I'm going to ask anyway, do big tournaments suffer due to high entry fee? Is the high entry fee guaranteeing top 100 players show up? What is most important to keep numbers going up? I bet you a mix. It'd be a cheap entry fee, but tickets.
    91:25
    If you're going to do a pump and dump. I'll be saying, do big tournaments suffer due to a high entry fee? I don't think big tournaments have problems with getting enough people in. Yeah. Because it's a big tournament. Yeah. By definition, they haven't suffered because of it already. And they usually will keep upping them. Yeah. And people keep coming. That's what they did with, like, Indisc, the high roller. That's not what it's called. High stakes. They just made it really expensive. And they still got people to play in it. But, you know, they got the number down. Let's see. Is the high entry fee guaranteeing top 100 players show up? Well, lots of whoppers guarantee top 100 points. Yeah, and money, too. If you see, like, I think there are a lot of top players who are like, if they can at least look forward to paying back a certain amount of their travel costs, then why go? Unless it's right around their house. That's the only reason why they would, then, yes. The other thing that top players do that I can even comprehend they just talk to each other about splits like before it even happens Oh I heard that Yeah it like okay I get first you get second you get first I get whatever you know we split it Like, okay. I'm just like, I can't even comprehend that. I mean, once you make the finals round, you know, repeatedly, then you'll understand. No, that doesn't happen. So, yeah, I guess I'll never get that. It's definitely an upper echelon privilege that I will never have. That's when you know you've made it. You're not worthy. Well, you're not either, nor is anyone else on this podcast ever going to be at that level. Sorry, Zach.
    93:01
    You're old now. Yes, your best days are far behind you. You had your shot, and it's over. You could still win at our piece. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe not. No, I can't.
    93:11
    Anyone but Zach has already been done, apparently. I think we have one of the biggest mailbags out there.
    93:19
    Thank you. What do you think? I'm very proud of it. I mean, when I list another podcast, either the ones that actually do read mail, I mean, they never have the amount of mail we do. No. Or maybe they just don't read it all. That's a disrespect to their fans. Oh, this is from George, who we're not going to disrespect. He says, Bruce. Oh, it says, it's directly you, Bruce. It doesn't say Bruce to run. It says, Bruce, uh-oh. Let's see what this is about here. We've got to shut up then, man. It's a good thing I don't read any of these.
    93:47
    Yeah, but imagine, like, filtering these beforehand. it now. It's more fun not reading these. That's why when Cole says the thing where I'm saying the same line about Silverwall Chronicles over and over, you guys think I'm making this up. He says it again. But he's actually writing it. It's hilarious. Yes, George says, Bruce, you saved me from a lot of pain and anguish. I considered buying... Oh, God. I considered buying a Fathom Revisited on the market, but your honest opinion and working knowledge expressed in multiple shows made me rethink my position. I'll let you revisit the particulars, but the myriad of issues, support, and unique parts convinced me that a non-playing box of lights was not for me. With the recent post about Haggis closing up, will we now see an uptick in people looking for original Fathoms? Oh, yeah, I guarantee it. I don't, I never, I was never a huge Fathom fan. I think the art... I mean, we weren't Fathom fans before that we made it, and we're still not Fathom fans afterwards. No. I had one. Other people are. The art is incredible, but what does this do to the Centaur market and the other Valley games that were to be produced? They'd probably be worth more, the originals. Worth more, but they don't have the money to buy them now. Oh, because they blew it all. Yeah, you're right. My condolences to all who prepaid and did not receive their games. Thank you again, and much success to you and your partners at RPC, George.
    95:12
    Luckily, you just talked to two of them directly. From Hunt County, Virginia. Come out, Virginia. Don't let me wait.
    95:21
    Okay. I love all the typing. Thank you, Zach. This is incredible. And I'm not, none of this is getting removed, so you can blame Zach. I am not going through your fucking track in removing that. Bruce is typing.
    95:36
    All right. This is from Jeff. Holy shit. How much is in my ball bag? Hey, guys. I hope the summer has been treating you both well. I'm writing to you, I guess more to Bruce, but Ron, if you have anything to share, please do. Wow. Watch, watch. Did that go? Watch, watch. Did that go? I don't know. Hey, I will say one thing. When we had the Facebook, did you see the Facebook post, either of you, about the podcasts? Who would they want to see as their top five? Well, they said who, yeah, what podcast and you add some people to it or something. We were on there a bunch. I was on there a bunch, and you were on there a couple times. If you mix a person or anyone, either everyone gets shut down because they can't stand them, or it's good. Yeah, pretty much. I love shutting people down. Okay, Jeff. I live, Jeff says, I live on a long island, and there's an amazing community of pinball enthusiasts here. I'd love some help and or pinformation. Ooh, I'm patenting that. Specifically, when it comes to the business model you have at RPC. I feel that there are so many people that I've come in contact with and feel that it would be great to start something similar up. So I figured I'd try to get that ball rolling again. I think in Long Island, isn't that like New York City stuff? Isn't that going to be expensive? Probably. Got to give a special shout-out to my mentor, neighbor, and bestest buddy, Scott, for starting me on this pin journey. Is there any advice or resources you may have to help start up something similar here on Long Island? Thank you in advance. Yeah, you get an agreement. Make sure you guys can tolerate each other.
    97:18
    Yeah, whoever's involved. Yes, that's the biggest two, I think. And have a lot of games. Zach? Having a lot of games isn't as important as fixing the games. True. Get ahold of people who can fix games. Yeah. Otherwise, just have a very expensive room full of dead games. Or brand-new Sperms. Either or. Well, they eventually break, too. I mean, honestly, they break down more than half of our other games. Yeah, they do. Especially the flippers. Mostly just the flippers. But I would argue they probably get played more in your other games, too.
    97:52
    Wow, okay. Do you have play counts? Zach actually does. I mean, Stars is right there. Come on. I know. God. Hello, Stars. Anything else? You know, buildings, locations. Rent is always a good thing. Don't forget about electricity and AC and having a lot of spare parts.
    98:16
    I mean, speaking of experience, a lot of people go to places that don't have AC, but I won't. So I won't either. Consider your audience carefully and choose.
    98:25
    And don't just have modern sterns because come on. Yeah, sternaments are not fun. I mean, they are sort of fun in some ways, but we've got enough of those already.
    98:34
    Just have like only Dead East games. That'd be interesting. I haven't seen that anywhere yet. Data East slash everything from 86 or 87 up to, like, 91. I like that.
    98:47
    That's, like, four years, Bruce. That's not a lot. Four years from every manufacturer. Oh, okay. So you do a themed collective that's just, like, an era. Like, you walk in and it's that era. You're not going to have anything older or newer. This is how this would have looked in 1990 or something. Yeah, this is a room dedicated. You have the disco ball. You have that kind of stuff. Oh, gosh. You have Big League Chew songs all over. You go in, and they're playing Dancing Queen, the one song from ABBA that Zach knows. Yes.
    99:19
    Okay, this one is from, it doesn't say. I think it's Craig. He says, when are you two assholes coming out with a new podcast? You guys rock. Now. Thank you. Before. About an hour ago. An hour ago. Right now. Here. Now. But when? When is that? Now.
    99:40
    Yeah, where's our Spaceballs pen? Come on. God. We were just talking about that today. That's something we can all agree on. Even Zach likes Mel Brooks.
    99:49
    Some of them. The good parts. That's all I got. That was it. Holy shit, my ball bag is empty. Yes, that was a lot of ball bagging. I feel like we used to have less ball bag. Like, there's definitely a dry spell, you know, on episode, like, 150. And then you guys, like, cultivated the ball bag capacity and increased it. I haven't been shaving it as much, so it grows in a little bit more, you know. And it really gets, you know, fulfilled. Honestly, I think it's just because we hadn't done episodes since the middle of July, so there's more time. Yes, more time to build up for the ball bag.
    100:28
    Just disgusting. So you don't hear me saying any disgusting things like this. And that's why he's the shy one here and not put on that. I'm a good cop. I'm classy. But what am I? You're the guy who hates everything. Is that a third cop, good cop, bad cop, and the hater? Yeah, the hater. All three of them in the interrogation room. Just pick whatever most people like and you will hate it. Mm-hmm. Except for Godzilla.
    100:55
    Yeah, he actually has a Godzilla. It's amazing. Oh, wait a minute. You have a Jurassic Park, too? Yeah, I do. Like the number one and two ranked games on Pinside. Partial Team Ellen.
    101:04
    Majority of the team. He actually owned almost all of them. He has owned all of them. Except for one of them. The really good one. Iron Maiden. The good one.
    101:14
    He learned. He got better over time. No, I don't think so. Actually, those are the only games in the Pinside Top Ten I've owned. Oh. So what, okay. What are the games in the Pinside Top Ten? Godzilla. We almost never go to Pinside. So that's number one. Jurassic Park. Well, hold on. You failed. You should have started at 10 and went up. Yeah. Idiot. You failed. I'll start at 15 and go up now. No, no. That's too big. Just start at 10.
    101:42
    All right. So number 10 is Twilight Zone. I've owned it. Okay. That's one ahead. Monster Bash. Two. Really? Two. Monster Bash is better than Twilight Zone. Yeah, I don't see that one. Okay. A Virus House of Horrors. No. It should be like number 50 on the list. I agree.
    102:03
    And then Iron Maiden. Okay. Nobody's owned that, so we're down. Oh, you own that, Ron, don't you? Yeah, that's Ron's first entry. Yeah. Okay, so Ron's first entry is 210. And then Lord of the Rings.
    102:16
    310. Then number five, Deadpool. Ron gets another point. Yeah. 320. Is it really Deadpool? A top ten game? Okay. Yeah, I don't see it either. I agree, Ron. But then we get to some more Bruce specials. You have Attack from Mars, number four. But Ronald's has Attack from Mars. So it's 4-3-0.
    102:37
    Then Medieval Madness, number three. 5-3-0. And then Jurassic Park and Godzilla, the two I own. And so it's 5-5-2. So according to Pinside, pinball did not exist before 1993. Nope. Only bad games existed before 1993. Yeah, I guess so. Jesus Christ. What's the next game below that on the list? That's the real question. Oh, wow. What's the first older game? What's the first non-90s game? Well, Indiana Jones Pinball Adventure is number 20. That's also 93. That's 93, yeah. Addams Family at number 23. That's 92. Okay, what's the... Whitewater, 93. Jesus Christ. Okay, what's the first 90s game? Is everyone 21 years and older?
    103:19
    Good for her. Funhouse, 58. 1990. God. That's still the 90s, though. Like, where's the 80s? Erwin, 64. That's also 90, isn't it? Okay, what's the non-Williams game, for Christ's sake?
    103:33
    Centaur, 75. Yeah, there you go. That's the first time that we had a good game before the 90s. Flash Gordon, 79.
    103:42
    That's really bad. Wait a minute. Are there any old Sterns at all? Quicksilver, 87. Wait, that's the highest rank one? That's the highest. It actually gets beaten by Fathom.
    103:54
    And also Dead East Guns and Roses. I like Quicksilver. I know Zach hates it, but, I mean, there are better Stern games than Quicksilver. Come on.
    104:03
    I mean, Stars is right there. Yeah, Stars is better. Meteor is better. Cheetah's better. Yeah, probably. Let's see where Stars is. This is why we never do Pinside, folks. Because we just get pissed off. Wait, Nineball beats Stars. Oh, come on. I need to go hate vote Nineball down, apparently. Where the hell's stars?
    104:29
    I can't find stars. You probably missed it. It is 169, Bruce. Holy shit! What? Oh, man, I told you. People are fucking stupid. STD is rolled over. You have a new job. You need to go rate stars on Pinside. Hold on, hold on. Let's do it. Fuck you, Pinside. Now we have to read these fucking things. Come on. Fuck you, Pinside. Come on. Fuck you. Show all rating comments. Let's see. Here we go. This is war. Okay, so here we go. Just raw pinball at its best. No toys or gimmicks, but so many classics are made over in so many ways. Okay, that's good. I am torn on the chimes. Digital bloops of the area would have worked well with the theme, but chimes are nice for a solid state. The second person in history to ever like bloops besides me. I know. Although on Starz, I think chimes are better, too. How about this one? A very top-solid state game masquerading as Electromagnetic Pin. Unlike other Stern games, the central overpost doesn't fill the gaps sufficiently, so lots and lots of drains. What? The chimes are unbelievably annoying. A nostalgia trip no one wanted to take. Oh!
    105:40
    That person should be banned from Pinside forever. Well, they all should be, because there's a lot of fucking morons here. Oh, that's awful!
    105:47
    Most of the people who gave comments have also rated it high. Yeah, but there must be a bunch of haters who just don't have someone to talk to. Yeah, there must be a bunch of haters that got screwed in a tournament. They probably played the one at Pinnberg with no center post and just hated it after that. Okay, here we go. Guy, I don't know what it is about Stars, but it's one of my favorite early solid-state games. Simple yet difficult, it's a game that always gets played when people come over. It's like the great equalizer for all scales. But I rate it a 7.1 out of 10. I've got a better one. 5.024 out of 10. The review? I used to own this game. Oh, my fucking God.
    106:26
    A chom, a chom, a jimmy chom chom. Here we go. Here's a great one. Stars is frustratingly simple. Collect the five stand-up targets to light special at one of the five star stand-ups. Hopefully, special equals points. There can also be an extra ball or a free game, depending on settings. Then rip the right hitter. Easier said than done, though. The layout is nothing to write home about, but the placement of the upper star stand-ups around the pop number reward accuracy and patience. The old hum, generic space work doesn't do it for me. Out of context. However, it surely signs things to come from Stern in the following years. Stern makes the first true leap into solid-state era Stern. As the bulk of games would feature sci-fi, fantasy-leaning power in your games, the chimes are a bit of an anachronism, but the rapid-fire low-clunk fourth bar when the special is attained is worth the price on admission. And he votes it a 6.6. People are fucking stupid. He seemed like he liked it, but not enough to actually rate it high. Yeah, exactly. It's so weird. It's a game that people like, but don't like to rate. Here we go. The game is nice with the moving start of hit overall, but for time period of this game, I feel it's a bit lacking. The shots are very simple to make. The chimes stay the same throughout the game. and I feel the layout could be improved. The chimes stay the same. And this idiot voted it 3.9. He's probably one of our listeners. How dare they not unlock the second set of chimes once you've played for over a minute. I know. Jesus Christ. I used to own this game. That was a great one, too. The fourth chime you only get to hear if you get the special. Yeah. And how about the second spinner? How about the way you can build up the value of the second spinner with the targets? How about you hit the outer targets and it makes the center target worth 7,000? Yes, 7,000 whole points. Come on. I just want the game to be simple and fun and easy. Fuck you people. This is why Pinside fucking sucks.
    108:26
    You may flow through me. Well, just read reviews of games we like and see the bad reviews. Holy fuck.
    108:36
    Like, holy shit. with the time machine, the machine Bride of Pimbot is higher than that. It's pretty fucking scary. It does have very good presentation, though, Bruce. Oh, yes, and when the head spins. Yes, and she comes alive. It's cool, Bruce. Come on. It's very cool. No, it's not. It's not? It's not cool. Zach, is it cool? Is it cool when she comes alive? It is sort of cool. No, no. The perfect is this. All sizzle, no steak. beautiful orchestration of light, sound, and mechs for a one-shot game. Perfect example. Yes, I agree. That is a perfect description. That is a perfect description of Bride of Pinball. I agree.
    109:17
    Houdini is higher than Stars. Oh, that just, like, kicks you right in the fucking nuts. Oh. All right, people, you need to vote up Stars higher. This is ridiculous. We cannot stand for this. I like to see like other people's reviews of the same like games like you know how many reviews oh this guy has rated 21 games remember when we used to actually read our ratings yeah now we just ignore them well no we just don't get them anymore like I'll look us up right now and see if we got anything probably not we haven't had a new list for like three years no we haven't no one comments anymore let's see here we go Too many sex jokes So there was a good I think that would have been the last one that we had Sure would be good but there's too many non-funny Sexual jokes It's like a broken record Good Fuck you then I think our last review Was from 2023 A whole year That means guess what we're not bad Because they would have reviewed about that No it just means no one's listening anymore Excellent. It means everyone who's listened has loved it. Yeah, exactly. Yes, it means we haven't got any new fans in forever. Yes, all zero. Well, I just want you guys to know I went and rated Stars an 8.6 and Nineball a 4. Oh, fuck you with the Nineball. You suck. I'm just looking at some of the people who wrote. I'm going to rate it now a 10 just to counteract that.
    110:53
    Grade school content. Oh, this might be the most annoying podcast I've ever heard. Oh. Nice. Okay, one guy who rated stars with a 8.6 rated fishtails a 10. I like fishtails. I don't see how you give any game a 10, to be honest. No, I've never given any game a 10. No game. If someone gives a game a 10, they should automatically be eliminated from the top 100. Exactly. It should be just void. No game is ever perfect. Even Jurassic Park I didn't give a 10. Like, come on. No.
    111:25
    All right. Yeah. Are we all set? I think we're set. Yeah, that just boiled my blood. That boiled your blood, yes. I hate when you're lost. At least S.A.R.S. beat out America's Most Haunted.
    111:37
    Did it beat out Jetsons and Domino's? Let's see. Where's Jetsons? It beat John Wick Pro. Oh, there you go. It beat Pharaoh. Wait a second. What's bigger? What's bigger, Countdown or S.A.R.S.?
    111:54
    I mean, rated better? Yes, rated better, according to these morons. Uh, Countdown? Zach? I'm going to assume Countdown 2, but I won't be surprised. Stars.
    112:07
    198 is Countdown. What the fuck? You didn't even beat Pharaoh. I don't get it. No, people are fucking stupid. Yeah, I'm... I mean, I get why they would rate 90s games better, but, like, why are you rating Pharaoh better?
    112:21
    What could possibly make you give Pharaoh over a 3 out of 10? It's just all this 90s snobbery. What's snobbery? If it doesn't have presentation, if it doesn't have a world under glass, then clearly it cannot be a good game. Wait now, Pharaoh, I think this game is more fun than Black Knight. Upper playfield is nicely used, and I like the amount of drop targets, which is the same as the amount in Black Knight. Wait a minute, the upper playfield is actually used, unlike Black Knight where the locks are in the upper playfield and lower playfield. The Magna Saves are tough to master, but man, it's satisfying. I wish I picked one up when I was off of this before. You lost me at the Black Knight one. It's better than Black Knight. I know. Okay. What's bigger? Kiss or Dolly Parton? Which kiss? Bally Kiss? Bally Kiss. So we're talking Bally's. Kiss.
    113:13
    Okay. Zach? Gotta be Kiss. Yeah, I choose Kiss. It is Kiss by 12. That's right. We are definitely better than Dolly Parton. Rock and roll all night. 247 to 269. Yes, whatever, Bruce. We're number one. We're kiss.
    113:32
    What's the worst game rated? Over 61 ratings. Oh, what? The Thunderbirds. Okay, Zach, what do you think? You think Thunderbirds? Yeah. You are right, both of you. Yeah. Second worst? Hercules. Third worst? Bugs Bunny's birthday ball. No. Yes. Yeah, but... Raven beats Bugs Bunny. Raven. I just... Yeah, enough. I think we're done. This is like... Fucking morons. I'm just very... Yes. The world is not what it should be. No, the world is not what it should be. I'm loving this guy who called Pharaoh a ballet classic. Okay, here we go. One more guess. Okay, he said he was done, didn't he? No, he said he was done, yeah. He said he was done. One more guess. Get closer to the mic.
    114:22
    Meteor or big game? Oh, Meteor. I'm guessing since he said it's going to be big game. Big game. 188 to 192. How the fuck is Meteor 192? I can't fucking tell you. I'm going to read. That is literally the greatest, well, Bruce Starks is, but I think Meteor is the greatest early solid-state stern ever made. How is that that low? I don't understand. And it sold a shit ton for them.
    114:49
    I don't get it. I think it's 90s and above snobbery. What do you think? This guy's like, I have four drop targets, three flippers, and a spinner you can rip all day. But I gave it a 7.2. That's pretty good. It's not too bad. I feel like a 7 is still not bad. It's just not okay. Once they give you a 6, then you're like, mm. Yeah. Sound is lousy, but gameplay grows on you over time. 5.5. The best sound of any classic Stern. Exactly. What sound? Is he talking about Meteor? Meteor. That's fucking stupid. I agree. It's literally the best background sound possibly ever. I had this for a few years and ended up trading it away. The game is not very interesting, and the sound design was awful. What? An increasing drone and an awful counting up bonus. I get that some people like that. The awful counting up bonus. I get that some people like it, but it drove me crazy. Not a fan of the game. Great backlash, though. That backlash is crap on that game. The backlash, it's just, it's the poster. It's the movie poster. Exactly, and it's not that great. It's fine. Oh, my God.
    115:56
    All right. This has been episode 233, folks. The anger is throwing too much. I'm just ending it. I don't want to hear any more bullshit about me being 190, whatever, 290. What was it? 193. God needs to be able to sleep tonight. No. I'm so angry about this. Stupid. This is why I don't go to pin-sized ratings. Oh, pin-sized fucking morons. Maybe it's good that Sir Fitzsafari can't get rated. Maybe that means it's good. I really like Stern games, but not this one. Bad looking and just not much fun to play. 4.9 for Meteor. Oh, just. Let's see what games he has in his collection. No, no. No, wait, wait. He has some good games. Here's the worst thing he's got. Well, he's got bad games, too. He's got an Iron Maiden. Stern. Old Iron Maiden. Electronimo. I don't know what the hell you would rate that. He wants both of those over Meteor. No, he owns these. He owns these. So Meteor, bad. Iron Maiden, old Iron Maiden, good. Pinball Pool he owns. He owns a Quicksilver. He owns a Sea Witch. He owns a Skateball. He owns a Space Riders. He owns a Superman, and he owns a Hang Glider. I'd like to see what his review of Hang Glider is. Let's see if he has one. Folks, I'm trying to end this, but it's not working. No, I cannot, because it's fucking... It's not working. It's like watching a car crash. It's like watching a fucking car crash. He rated Stellar Wars higher than Meteor. This guy is a fucking moron. Wow. He's probably another listener. Whoever is the next listener again. You are a fucking moron. Wow.
    117:26
    Wait, and he rates Barracora a 9.5. Wait a minute. We have a ball bag email from that exact name. And he rates Barracora a 9.5. But he rates Meteor a 4.9. Maybe he's got the dyslexia. He was trying to go for a 9.4. Okay, this has been episode 233 of the Slam Tilt Podcast. Thanks, everybody, for listening. You can check out our website at www.slamtiltpodcast.com. That's www.slamtiltpodcast.com. If you want to email us, we can be found at slamtiltpodcast at gmail.com. That's slamtiltpodcast at gmail.com. I won't mention the other podcast I'm on because Bruce is already fucking pissed. Pissed, yes. So thanks to everyone in our... We rated Hang Glider a 7.8 and Panthera... Thanks to everyone in our cluster of... Panthera an 8.0. Hi, Fun With Bonus. Hi, Zach. Panthera. Hi.
    118:24
    Yes. He rated Embryon a 9.2. 9.2, but you gave fucking Meteor a 4.9. Fucking Zip77 is a fucking moron. Okay, Bruce. Okay. Meanwhile, at the next York show, hi, I'm Zev77. He punches you right in the face. He beats the shit out of Bruce. No, he lives in Malibu, California. That's how stupid he is.
    118:50
    Wow. Okay, next time Bruce goes to California Extreme, he gets extreme. He gets the shocker. Thanks for joining us, Zach. I apologize for Bruce's behavior again. My outburst of fucking stupidity is just dealing with it. Yes. Okay. This is why I don't go out in the world. No. Did you have a name?
    119:13
    A good example of how poor sound can be cracked from otherwise sound gain. Every pun intended. 5. Fucking 7. What the fuck is going on here? I'm going to keep on ranting until I get a name. If our listeners, if you know these morons, hit them in the fucking back of the head with a fucking baseball bat.
    119:34
    Holy shit. Our STDs out there, if you actually like this, the way he's going off here, just let us know. We could make a new segment.
    119:44
    No, it's not a segment. I'm just seeing how stupid people fucking are. I wanted so much from this game. The goods. Plenty of drops. Fun to rip spinner. Are we still on the air?
    119:56
    Yes. Nice artwork with all the vintage sterns. Lots to shoot at. A sniper's dream. Here's the bad. The sound. possibly one of the most annoying sounds in all of pinball. When you get the game singing, it's awful. Such a loud, high-pitched song reminds me of the most annoying sound in the world from Dumb and Dumber. I may be alone in saying this, but I do not like the bottom half of most older spurns. Okay, okay. I will mention one of my first memories of pinball at all was as a five, six-year-old, whatever the hell I was, the tavern that my father always went to, there was a meteor there, and he played that. And when it made the sound and kept getting higher, there was a woman there that would get really annoyed. Nice. I wonder if she's any relation to this person. Maybe. Okay, Bruce, you got a name? Yeah, I do. Okay. I apologize for Bruce's behavior. I apologize to you. What was his name? Zep? Zep 77. So he probably owns a... Wait a minute. Does he own a Led Zeppelin? No, he does not. Oh, that doesn't even make sense. Maybe he likes the Zep, the spray.
    121:02
    I couldn't fucking tell you. Okay. Thanks again, everybody. All I know is he's fucking stupid. Anybody friends with him, hit him with a baseball bat. No, don't do that. Please don't do that. And he's probably a listener, and we'll be sending his hate mail now. Thank you. Good. I cannot wait. Okay. Until next time. Okay. Shut up, Bruce. Until next time, say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Teddy Kirsch. I hope you're not Zep 77.
    121:33
    And you fly, oh my, my, oh my, my. Can't go away if you try, oh my, my, oh my, my. I'll keep you alive.
    121:56
    Meteor! Level Zero! Clusterbump! Choice to kind! Oh my. Oh, my. America's Most Haunted has a better higher rating than Meteor.
    123:03
    No. Yes! No. Well, it has a screen, so it automatically gets a plus two, you know? Wait, Rob Zombies is higher than me here. No, no. Yeah, I'm telling you, people are stupid.