Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Ep 34: Hot Tub Tilt Machine

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 36m·analyzed·May 22, 2021
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern vs. Bally debate, Haggis Fathom sales analysis, and licensing strategy discussion with Slam Tilt hosts.

Summary

Final Round Pinball Podcast episode featuring guests Bruce Nightingale and Ron Hallett from Slam Tilt Podcast discussing classic Stern vs. Bally games, Haggis Pinball's Fathom Revisited remake, Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon remake plans, licensing trends (Mandalorian, Beavis and Butthead), and sight-unseen purchases of new games. The episode includes a comedic hot tub segment and discussion of Mandalorian's playfield design.

Key Claims

  • Fathom Revisited has sold fewer than 250 units in almost a month

    medium confidence · Jeff Teolis discussing sales performance, noting machines are still available for direct purchase

  • Stern Electronics game remakes (like Stargazer) would sell only 350-500 units maximum

    medium confidence · Jeff Teolis and Bruce Nightingale debating hypothetical sales for classic Stern titles

  • Cactus Canyon was never finished and lacks a wizard mode

    high confidence · Multiple speakers confirming Cactus Canyon's incomplete code status

  • Back to the Future pinball sold fourth or fifth highest among recent games

    low confidence · Marty Robbins correcting earlier claim about Back to the Future sales performance

  • Beatles pinball game was priced incorrectly and didn't sell over 1,000 units

    medium confidence · Jeff Teolis discussing pricing strategy impact on sales

  • Beavis and Butthead is getting a new Paramount+ series with two seasons guaranteed

    high confidence · Bruce Nightingale confirming upcoming TV production supporting potential pinball licensing

  • Matrix movie is in production and is a reboot

    medium confidence · Casual conversation about potential future pinball theme licensing

  • Godzilla pinball game is supposed to come out later in 2024

    medium confidence · Marty Robbins mentioning rumored upcoming Godzilla themed machine

  • Mandalorian premium has Bill Burr featured on backbox and playfield as one of the pirates

    high confidence · Multiple speakers confirming Bill Burr's appearance in Mandalorian game artwork and playfield

  • Mandalorian playfield has multiple positions that progress from simple to complex difficulty like Banzai Run

Notable Quotes

  • “That is a fucking incredible quality machine... ask Dr. John... he was one of the reasons why i was convinced... yep and that sold me”

    Jeff Teolis @ early — Endorsement of Haggis Pinball's Fathom Revisited build quality as a major selling point for buyers

  • “We do the two things that nobody listens to. We do tournament talk and tech talk. They're like the two kisses of death for podcasts.”

    Jeff Teolis @ mid-early — Self-aware humor about Slam Tilt's niche focus on competitive pinball and technical content

  • “I'm not paying $8,500 for Cactus Canyon. Sorry. In my mind, the game is not that good.”

    Marty Robbins @ mid — Strong opinion that Cactus Canyon remake lacks sufficient value proposition despite code improvements

  • “Who the fuck does that for anything else? I'd like to buy that new car that's coming out. Can I see it? Can I test drive it? No, no, no, no. But here's my money.”

    Jeff Teolis @ mid — Criticism of sight-unseen limited edition purchasing model unique to pinball industry

  • “The time would have been the 90s to do it, but if there was ever a time to do it now, you get the nostalgia factor, plus it's currently on TV.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ late-mid — Analysis of optimal timing for Beavis and Butthead pinball licensing given current IP revival

  • “And that being said, let's think of machines that you'd like to see remade that have been made before... could the same be said about pinball on the way?”

    Jeff Teolis @ late-mid — Rhetorical challenge about pinball industry lack of originality vs. Hollywood criticism

  • “I'm looking forward to that play field. Just because at first I thought it only had, like, two positions... But it has multiple positions... from simple to, like, Banzai Run verticalness.”

    Marty Robbins @ late — Positive assessment of Mandalorian's innovative playfield mechanics and progressive difficulty design

Entities

Jeff TeolispersonMarty RobbinspersonBruce NightingalepersonRon HallettpersonDamienpersonJoe BalcerpersonBrian EddypersonBill BurrpersonTimothy Olyphantperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Fathom Revisited has sold fewer than 250 units in approximately one month, still available for direct purchase

    medium · Jeff Teolis: 'they can't even get 250 sold in almost a month... they're still for sale'

  • ?

    product_concern: Mandalorian playfield design criticized for tight shot entrances close to flippers, creating dangerous misses and potentially tedious upper playfield gameplay

    medium · Marty Robbins: 'entrance to a lot of the shots are really close to the flipper... tough game' and upper playfield fun questioned

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Beavis and Butthead IP revival with new Paramount+ series (2 seasons guaranteed) creates licensing window opportunity for pinball manufacturers

    high · Bruce Nightingale: 'They're coming out with a new movie. They're going to be at Paramount Plus and they're doing two seasons guaranteed'

  • $

    market_signal: Cactus Canyon $8,500 price point considered unjustified without significant code improvements; lack of wizard mode insufficient to drive purchases

    medium · Marty Robbins: 'I'm not paying $8,500 for Cactus Canyon... the game is not that good'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Industry practice of selling limited editions sight-unseen without gameplay experience or playfield preview unique to pinball

    high · Jeff Teolis: 'Who the fuck does that for anything else? I'd like to buy that new car... Can I see it? No. But here's my money'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.289

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round.
0:39
You poor soul, you've waited two weeks for this podcast, but we're back. Another edition of Final Round. My name is Jeff Teolis. My name is Martin Robbins. Welcome, everybody, to our shit show. And it is a shit show because every now and then we like to do charitable work and, you know, help those less fortunate people. You probably haven't heard these two people. Let me just tell you, they're nice guys. In fact, some might say head-to-head pinball may have got their idea from listening to their podcast. No. Nobody says that. Somebody might say, you know, they really helped pinball profile get off the ground. I'll deny it. I'll just say bullshit. Who's saying this shit? Who is saying it? I want names. I don't know. Fact checkers, I guess they call themselves. but the point is we want to introduce you for the first time ever, even though I think they've been on the pinball network. I don't know. I got to pull up the sheet here, read the names. They do a podcast. It's called, well, this sounds cute, Slam Tilt Podcast. Bruce Nightingale, Ron Howlett, and they join us now from upstate New York. Hello, Bruce. Hello, Ron. Hello. I think we got Marty his gig now, too, because he's now hired by a pinball company. We've gotten a lot of the guys we know hired by pinball companies, so we're good on that. Are you suggesting I need to give you a cut of my salary now? Of course, right now. Okay, cool, cool.
2:03
Sold. How come we can't get in pinball games? I don't get it. Marty's been in a pinball game. He's programming a pinball game. Jeff's been in a pinball game. When am I in a pinball game? You're in Zach's. Yes. You're in his poker game. I'm in a homebrew that no one outside of Upstate will play. You know, I'm in a homebrew game as well. but I'm not 100% sure that it's going to be a homebrew for much longer. So I don't know the answer, but I'm kind of waiting to see. Pour and hob the game, yes. You know, you have no idea how close that is to what we're going to be doing in a few minutes. Congratulations. Yes, thank you. It's great. I mean, it's what everybody really wants. If we're really honest, everyone wants to work in pinball, and it's the whole idea of never having to work a day in the life now because you're doing what you love, and that's kind of what it is. Hear that, Damien? He's slacking already. Just started and he says, I'm not doing any work. I sit next to Damien every day. He knows that's not true.

medium confidence · Marty Robbins describing playfield mechanics and design evolution

“I have another dream theme, and I'm pretty sure it might happen, so I'll just keep that under wraps.”

Jeff Teolis @ mid-late — Hint at insider knowledge of unreleased pinball theme licensing deal, confidence in occurrence

  • “They're coming out with a new movie. They're going to be at Paramount Plus and they're doing two seasons guaranteed.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ late-mid — Confirmation of Beavis and Butthead IP revival creating licensing window for pinball manufacturers

  • “I would want them to remake, do a new version of Roller Games... Just make it even cheesier than it was.”

    Jeff Teolis @ late-mid — Desire to see obscure licensed IP remade with enhanced production values and expanded mechanics

    • John Popadiukperson
    Carl Weathersperson
    Final Round Pinball Podcastorganization
    Slam Tilt Podcastorganization
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Homepincompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Fathom Revisitedgame
    Mandaloriangame
    Cactus Canyongame
    Level Zerovenue
    Beavis and Buttheadgame
    ?

    design_innovation: Mandalorian features progressive playfield positions that evolve from simple to complex difficulty (Banzai Run-style) with adaptive gravity mechanics

    medium · Marty Robbins: 'it goes from simple to, like, Banzai Run verticalness... gets harder and harder to hit the targets... you have to adjust to the gravity'

  • ?

    content_signal: Hot tub streaming and novelty content being used to boost Twitch viewership numbers; revenue-driven by platform changes

    medium · Discussion of hot tub segments driving viewer engagement and speculation about Amazon/Prime subscription impact on revenue models

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing collector interest in classic Stern and Bally remakes; Ed Robertson discussing old classic Sterns shows expansion beyond casual players

    medium · Jeff Teolis: 'Ed Robertson two weeks ago talking about old classic Sterns... come to the dark side. We have cookies'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Jeff Teolis hints at unreleased pinball theme under NDA that he believes will happen; appears confident in future announcement

    low · Jeff Teolis: 'I have another dream theme, and I'm pretty sure it might happen, so I'll just keep that under wraps... It's nothing that hasn't been said before'

  • $

    market_signal: Small, vocal niche within hobby enthusiasts; estimated Stargazer would sell 350-500 units if remade; Beatles sold under 1,000 units

    medium · Multiple speakers discussing hypothetical sales volumes and actual sales history of recent remakes and classics

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Limited availability of desired classic licenses; manufacturers constrained by IP holder interests; potential for Matrix, Godzilla, Rocky themes discussed

    medium · Discussions of titles that 'won't get remade' and speculation about upcoming Godzilla release 'later this year'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Joe Balcer recently signed by pinball manufacturer (context suggests Stern); Marty Robbins hired by Haggis Pinball as designer/contributor

    medium · Jeff Teolis: 'I think we got Marty his gig now, too, because he's now hired by a pinball company' and 'I saw they signed him [Joe Balcer]'

    • 3:04
    Well, I'm going to give you a world exclusive, guys. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay, I'm ready. 104. Oh, you bought one.
    3:13
    That's great. Let me just tell you, Marty is going to say all kinds of great things, but he's biased. I'm going to say it and I'm not biased. that is a fucking incredible quality machine you're buying the play field everything else like ask dr john and we all talk ask him about his kelts machine how incredibly put together that is yep he was one of the reasons why i was convinced when i talked to dr john about the quality and everything like that i was like yep and that sold me yeah oh you're not worried about the code No. 1.0 is fine. Oh, good. Yeah. I'm good with that. Are we talking about Fathom? Yes. Is that what we're talking about? Okay. Revisited, to give it its full title. It's really interesting. We've tried to work out who's been buying the machine on the strength of the quality of the machine and who's buying it on the strength of the new code. It's really hard to tell. I did it because of the quality. It's a combination, right? No, no, no. It's all about quality.
    4:15
    Who does competitive pinball? We've all proven that. Nobody listens to competitive pinball. That is quite true. Yes. Actually, our podcast, we do the two things that nobody listens to. We do tournament talk and tech talk. They're like the two kisses of death for podcasts. Or you could say that that's what makes Slam Tilt so unique is that you do that, and that is a niche market and a niche audience that I actually really appreciate that you do that. I'm not going to pay any more compliments, but I'm glad that you do it, and you know I'm a big fan of Slam Tilt. Yes, we know that very much. Thank you. I was very surprised at Ed Robertson two weeks ago talking about old classic sterns in his wheelhouse. Oh, yeah. I was very much enjoying that part. I was like, yeah, come to the dark side. We have cookies.
    5:03
    So let's talk about – I don't want to talk too much about Fathom. I've always said let Damien be the face of Haggis, and he can continue that. But Jeff and I were talking about this before we started recording today. What's really interesting, if you two gentlemen can cast your memories back, I don't know whether it was on your show or whether it was on Head to Head, where we had a Stern versus Bally Battle Royale. And you tell me how that went. Oh, Bally barely won.
    5:35
    Barely. I mean, it was like, I think, 9-8 or something like that, really close. But we all really inside know that, you know, Sterns are better. Far superior. I think they're both great. It's 1A, 1B. I agree. But, yeah, 1A is Stern. 1-2, 1B is a B for Bally. So we're right there with it. So out of any old classic game, are you guys both like Dragon Fist or Stargazer or Stars? Which is your number one Stern game? stargazer ah meteor i would go stargazer too i like meteor a lot too but i definitely think stargazer's super fun and it's the rareness i add that factor now your number one bally game that you could get like or own in that kind of era in that early 80s era i've already owned a centaur so fathom is right up my i actually owned a fathom at one time but i never put it together because it was a project that I just passed on when I got the bar. So I have to say Fathom is right up there, or what I got already, which is my hot dog, and you don't see many of them. Me, Centaur. There's so many to choose from for Bally. So the thing about the Bally titles for me, and I'm speaking because I know it's uncomfortable for Marty to say, but for me, the Bally titles, I can name a lot more of them than I can the Stern. I'm all in on Stern, like you say, for even Quicksilver. and certainly Stars and Meteor. Cheetah. Yeah, Cheetah, big game. I kind of like big game more than Cheetah. And definitely Stargazer. I've got a Flight 2000, but there are a lot of... I'd rather have Paragon than Flight 2000. Ooh. I'll go with you on that. Yeah, Paragon is just a freaking wide-body Harlem Globetrotters. And that's a bad thing? Yeah, it is, because I think the tightness of Harlem is better and three spinners wins always. But here's the question, right? In all of this, you can look back and you go, oh, I wish they made this and I wish I made that. Let's think even more recently where everyone's going, oh, I wish they would vault a Tron or if they vaulted a Lord of the Rings. But when you're thinking about Stern Electronics games, that's great. You just say, okay, I wish they made a Stargazer. How many would they sell? 350, maybe 500 max. No way. No, higher. I'd say lower. I'm saying lower because look at what's happening right now with Fathom. Nothing against Haggis or anything like that, but they can't even get 250 sold in almost a month. Well, you'll see. Well, they're still for sale. I know, but they're still for sale. Anybody can go right now and do it, so it's not a mean thing. It's just saying Fathom is a really great title. I think they would sell more of Centaur than anything else. I think that's going to be the home run, the number two title. I'm hoping that will be number two because I think Ron even would be jumping on board with that. But, you know, it's a hard thing because people are picking. And look, I know they're building them right now. People are making these themselves. But I would like an indestructible play field, you know, centaur. That would be next. And then maybe a stargazer, that kind of stuff. You know, I really would like longevity. And I think in the end, I don't think as many of these things sell as people think they do. If we have Quicksilver, if we have 500 of them sold, no, you wouldn't. No, you wouldn't. I'm shocked. I would think they would sell better, but that's... I don't think so. Is it the price point for you, Ron and Bruce? Is that what it is? If it's a good game, I'll buy it. That's the way I look at it. I've always looked at it that way. But for some people, it's not. Unfortunately, it isn't. But, you know, it all is just... I think it's a smaller niche within the hobby than most people think it is. Just because it's a very vocal niche in the hobby. I want my Stargazer. I want my Quicksilver. I've seen some of the people post on Facebook that have also purchased a Haggis Revisited, and they're people I didn't expect. It's not like people who buy every new game. It's people that, wow, that's a classic title that I'm going to get new in box and with an extra code. I think that's the excitement of it. And whatever other titles come or whatever remakes are out there, I mean, look at, obviously, CGC went with the home runs, went with, first of all, they went with DMD games. That's a big difference too. But they went with the top three games. Let's see how they do with Cactus Canyon. Now, we're talking about how well they sell. I don't think that sells very well. I hope they do. No, I really don't think it's going to sell that well. It depends if they do anything with the code, which they really haven't done, other than they've improved on the graphics of the DMD. They did the big screens. They've had really cool toppers. But they haven't done any new. They haven't done what Fathom's done, have like a 2.0. And with Cactus Canyon, you have an opportunity where you could finish the code because it was never finished. But I don't know if they've even contacted the original programmer. Ron, you know, you talk about finishing the code. So what you're explaining, for those who don't know, Cactus Canyon doesn't have a wizard mode. Supposed to, doesn't. It never got finished. But if that's all they're adding, is that enough? Because as someone who plays in competitions, Marty, you tell me if you do the same thing. When I play Cactus Canyon, I only do one thing, and it's not multi-ball. No. I just go up to the top two lanes over and over. I do that right orbit shoot, and I just get my multipliers up as, you know, the, not multipliers, but the bonus X. And that's all I do. You're assuming that they would, selling these for tournament players, I would argue that they don't care. I get it, but I'm just saying it's adding a wizard mode isn't going to change the code for me. I'm not paying $8,500 for Cactus Canyon. Sorry. In my mind, the game is not that good. Oh, damn. I always liked it. I like the Western theme. I enjoy playing it. I love the music and I love the call-outs. I love the humor in it. I don't feel satisfied playing it. And I don't care whether it's got a wizard mode or not, even as far as how I progress through the game. And I try not to play tournament style, which is obviously Left Orbit and in lanes. I try to play around the table. And some of it's fun. There's just something just missing in the rules framework. It's that wizard mode that you don't have.
    12:10
    Well, again. Lock, it's lit, and so am I. Yeah, it's just, honestly, there's better titles out there than paying $8,500 for Cactus Canyon. I'd rather pay. Really, Bruce? What would you buy instead of Cactus Canyon? A Deadpool premium. No, no, no, no. I mean, for remakes. If you don't like their choice, what do they do wrong? What should they have chosen, Bruce?
    12:33
    There you go. Nope, see? Fail. No, I don't know because, honestly, they got the best three. I'm not interested in a Circus Voltaire. I'm not interested in a Tales of Arabian Nights. I'm not interested in a Theater of Magic, which everyone talks about. so i know the titles that i would like to have redone are not gonna get redone so did you think fathom was gonna be redone how can you say that yeah but i don't see well really you see him making next generation again you want to see that game i love that game oh my god with with improved electronics where it doesn't have an issue with the locks or missing balls or anything like that think about that well you also want them to do a radical and that ain't happening exactly i would love to see a radical but think about it after cactus canyon and the titles i mentioned which is circus voltaire tales arabian nights and theater magic the papa duke three basically what else is there hmm yeah dead silence yeah you're not gonna get no fear you're not gonna get johnny mnemonic you're not gonna get all these other great games that are out there that are good players to enjoy you're not gonna see them remade so what else is in their repertoire Well, that's why they're supposedly going to do licensed games. Yeah, which we see how these other companies are doing with licensed games besides JJP and Stern.
    13:55
    But it's why I was asking the question a few minutes ago about Stern Electronics Games. There's this real fine line between wanting them to make a game that you love versus them making a game that's going to sell to the masses. And it's really not, and I now know firsthand, it's really not an easy, easy decision to make. No, no, no, not at all. They tried with Beatles. Yeah. I mean, and that was more of a pricing thing than anything else. But I love Beatles. But yeah, they didn't sell over a thousand. But I love that game. It was priced wrong. Yeah, it was priced wrong. Totally great. But you don't know what's going to happen. You really don't. You guys have certainly collected, Bruce, what, 200 plus games in your life? Maybe more? Almost three now. I'm almost up to three. I was looking back, it's like 280 I think I'm at right now. Ron has a huge collection too, and many of them on display at level zero. How do you feel about buying Sight Unseen? And I know you've both done it. We've got a new game that was released in Mandalorian, and of course the LEs sold out instantly. That's the only way you get an LE, buying it, before you see any gameplay, before you even see the play field. You've got to lock in with your distributor. How comfortable are you with this? And by the way, let's think of the logic of that. Who the fuck does that for anything else? I'd like to buy that new car that's coming out. Can I see it? Can I test drive it? No, no, no, no. But here's my money. Yep. Take my money. Well, you can answer, Bruce. You've done it. I haven't. I have done it a couple times. I've done it for Family Guy. I've done it for, and I was very happy with Family Guy when it came out. I was static. Rick and Morty? Rick and Morty, I've done it. Well, I did see a little bit of it, but not much. Of course, we just saw the play field and some of the shots, but we didn't get to play it. Did that.
    15:43
    Yeah, okay. Well, that is interesting because, correct me if I'm wrong, you weren't and possibly still aren't a fan of TNA. No, not. I don't play it. I know how to play it. I know what the exploit is, just backhand the lock. Once you get multi-ball, go for the center targets, get Reactor started. That's all it is. Literally. Yeah, I get that. And I think everybody agrees that you're wrong with your dislike of that game. Yep. But the point is this is now Scott Denise's second game. You didn't like TNA and yet you bought this sight unseen. Yes, because the theme. Okay. Honestly, Rick and Morty, I love them. Okay. Oh my God. That's cool. That's absolutely no judgment.
    16:32
    I say that trying not to laugh. There's no judgment on that. I've bought on theme. I bought Iron Maiden based on theme. But it's interesting that that's really showing that for some people, theme is that important. The gameplay doesn't really matter. There's only one theme I would do that for, and that would still depend on the manufacturer. If you told me Homepin was making it, I'd be like, hmm, yeah. Beavis and Butthead? Yes. That's my nightmare, though. Homepin is making Beavis and Butthead. Well, we know you would be happy if Stern bought it. Well, we've got a treat for you. We've got a special guest right now. Joe Balcer, come on the program. Here we go. Yeah, I saw they signed him, and I thought, like, wow, if they did Beavis and Butthead, it'd just have, like, all the tightest shots, and you wouldn't be able to hit anything. Okay, so here we go. Let's go down to Manufacturer for Ron. Okay, if Stern made Beavis and Butthead, would you buy it? Yes. Okay, if JJP made Beavis and Butthead, would you buy it? Yes. Okay, if American Pinball made Beavis and Butthead, would you buy it? I liked Hot Wheels, so yeah, probably. Okay. And if Haggis made it?
    17:37
    That would just be weird. That would be weird. I don't know how big Pimmons and Buttons is in Australia. I just don't. It really isn't. I didn't think so, no.
    17:47
    I'm surprised you didn't say spooky. I probably would do spooky, too. I mean, at least I know their heart would be in the right place on the software side. I don't know how it would shoot. Yeah. So four out of five manufacturers, you know, the only one he doesn't want is HomePen, so we're good on that one. We got that all down. The problem is overseas with Beavis and Butthead. It's the only problem I see. There's not a big market. They did do a Japanese mint ad. Okay, great. Wow. One Japanese mint ad is going to make me sell all overseas. Oh, yeah. But obviously, I don't know because we're in Australia, and I know that Beavis and Butthead was here, like it was on TV, but was it an MTV show over there? Yes. Right, so we didn't have MTV as a full channel. They had CTV, CTV, criminal TV.
    18:40
    We've got multiple channels for that. But, you know, over there MTV was a channel, so it was part of that, so you got to see it a lot. We didn't. I'm still keen to know. I obviously know, Ron and Bruce, it's huge for you. and I mean you've got the quote at the start of your show, arguably the best part of your podcast. It is, totally. As soon as we speak, it's done. It's gone.
    19:08
    But is Beavis and Butthead really that big over there still? It has to be if they're coming out with a brand new show. Yeah, that's the only thing. They're coming out with a new movie. They're going to be at Paramount Plus and they're doing two seasons guaranteed. So if there was ever a time, it's now. I mean, the time would have been the 90s to do it, but if there was ever a time to do it now, you get the nostalgia factor, plus it's currently on TV. But I don't think, they wouldn't do it until probably after the first season, assuming it does decent. Do you think they can get away with the same humor?
    19:48
    There'll have to be three modes, I'm thinking. Yeah, because if they... A PC mode, a normal mode. Because if it came out and it was a sanitized version of the humor, it wouldn't work. No, but... No, well, it's not overly... It's way less vulgar than anything Rick and Morty does. Oh, yeah, totally. No, it's not that it's vulgar. It's inappropriate. Okay, what's your point?
    20:12
    Looking at the calendar, it's 2021. Shit, I thought it was 2012 again. I thought you were numbers backwards. Dyslexia again.
    20:20
    What's inappropriate about it? I don't get it. They're never going to score, and that's the whole show. What titles would you guys want to see for you guys? You had Thunderbirds, which was, you know, that was truly Australian. What would you guys like to see? How is that Australian? Well, it's English-Australian. You guys are all in the same boat. All the same? Wow. Your calendar is fucked.
    20:48
    I wonder, Jeff, would it be like Mountie Pinball or something like that? Yeah, maple syrup edition, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, I got my Zeppelin. That was my dream theme, and I'm glad the machine is what it is. I love the code, and I'm now playing it, which is even more exciting. So that's the good thing. I know I have another dream theme, and I'm pretty sure it might happen, so I'll just keep that under wraps. Oh, behind the scenes. The all NDA podcast. No, no, no, no, no. It's nothing that hasn't been said before, so who knows. But I don't know. Marty, do you have a dream theme? I guess, is it Kraftwerk, who just got into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Yeah, congratulations. Well deserved.
    21:32
    Obviously, Harry Potter is it. My others, I would love a Matrix pin. I really would. That'd be really good. Kraftwerk, obviously, but I don't even hold out any hope. It wouldn't sell. It would be an absolute joy to play. but maybe if you had craft work music in another game with a better theme matrix works matrix works i would love to see a matrix especially to do movie coming out yeah actually a wait a minute there's another matrix movie yes it's in production really reboot is it like a oh i was about i was gonna say like is it a reboot hollywood has no fucking originality anymore holy shit a theme I would love is supposedly going to come out later this year and that would be Godzilla is that really like a grail theme for you Godzilla I watched that as a kid like all the old Godzilla movies and that's the thing it would have to be the old school Godzilla not anything new yeah well even Toho it would have to be because Toho did Shin Godzilla which I did not like I would like another thing we talked about I would love to see it back to the future That again. No, no. I mean, just like the first movie. You do the first one, you're good. They did it already. It bombed.
    22:52
    Actually, it sold fourth or fifth highest. Actually, yeah, you're probably right there. It's not Lethal Weapon 3, though. I'll tell you something. You know, you talk about Hollywood having no new ideas. If Godzilla is in fact coming out, that game has been around before. We've already seen an Avengers before. We've already seen a Turtles before. Godzilla, the first game doesn't count. That's the American version. Yeah, it doesn't count. I'm just saying we've seen these titles come out before. So if Hollywood can't come up with a new idea, could the same be said about pinball on the way? And that being said, let's think of machines that you'd like to see remade that have been made before. I have one in mind that I would like to see a new version of the pinball machine, but I'll let you guys go first. Bro Chang's Mad Max version. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah? I could get into that. because it's kind of what it is anyway, so might as well just make it Mad Max. Yeah, I really have... Don't have any ideas on that, actually. I don't know what I'd want to remade. I've got one. So everything is just great, Bruce. You don't need to redo anything. Okay, that's so like you. Okay. I would want them to remake, do a new version of Roller Games.
    24:04
    You got the slam silence Go for the wall Just make it even cheesier than it was so the same teams and all i mean it was only on for like one season so it not even like i think six episodes aired that was all actually yeah i mean if they have the wall you can make an actual wall maybe the ball goes airborne with a catapult or something and there isn't it wasn't there like a shark thing and and they had like live bands play during halftime you could do that I have one now. Ghostbusters.
    24:34
    Really, honestly, that game's crap. It's not crap. Oh, come on. The Pro is okay. Yeah, I would agree. Don't get the premium with the stupid Magna slings. That sucked hard. It was a great idea thinking about it in theory that was like, hey, it sounds pretty cool. And then when it came to functionality, it was like, okay. Okay.
    24:59
    And we all worried about that when that was announced. It's like, oh, Magnuslings, how's that going to work? It sounds like it might not work good. Hey, it doesn't work good. Who would ever thought of that? I would like to see a remake, not of the game. Forget what the play field looks like, because it's horrible. I'm talking about the IP. Isn't it time, and wouldn't this sell well, if they did a Rocky pinball machine, a good one? Yeah, that could work. They just got Carl Weathers to do The Mandalorian. Get Apollo Creed to do that? Living in America. Yeah, you could get James Brown in there. Yep. You'd have Drago as one of the wizard modes or something. I must break you. Be great. Who would have thought in 2021 Bill Burr would be on a Pimble? Bill Burr? I saw that. Like, wow, Bill Burr's on The Mandalorian. Who's Bill Burr?
    25:50
    He's a famous stand-up comedian in the U.S., but he's also in The Mandalorian. and he's on the side of the back box, I think, on the premium. Yes, and he's also on the play field. He's the one that actually has the gun, the third gun. He's one of the pirates that tried to break into the first season of Mandalorian where they broke into the penal ship. They broke out.
    26:11
    And they broke out the guy. They're trying to break out the guy. He's the bald guy, almost like, or the very thin hair like me.
    26:19
    Almost. No, he's bald, like you. And he's a ginger, like you. I'm not bald. Well, we're about to find out because this is the part of the podcast where, you know, we realize, okay, people are starting to drift off. You know how after on Slam Tilt, after the Beavis and Butthead clip, same kind of thing. Same thing here on Final Round. So what we're going to do to spice it up a little bit, and I hope it works well on a podcast, but it certainly will on our Twitch channel. You guys can do it on Slam Tilt too. Guys, I know you've got your Speedos and Budgie Smugglers. It's time to jump in the hot tub, guys. And it's nice and warm, 90 plus. All right. I'm in. I'm going in. Come on in, boys. Backward speedo, here I come. Just, you know, subtly place your parts near one of the jets, and then you're good to go. My man junk is all there. Ron, you can take your shirt off. It's okay.
    27:09
    Oh, I'm ripped. I don't have a problem. There you go. I mean, Jeff and Bruce, you may be intimidated by me and Marty, but, you know, it's just the way it goes. Did that piercing hurt? Cake time, baby. Cake time. Oh, this is nice. And this is the way we should be doing our podcasts. If only we had a visual right now. And everyone listening right now, if you want to sub, we'll write your names on our arms and stuff. Oh, hi, Glenn. There's one right now. Hey, this is what it means to get sponsors. I really like this, Ron. Yes. Wow. Who is our sponsor, Mr. Bubble? Yeah. Thank you for the fine people of Whirlpool for bringing this together. This is nice. This is the way to do it. if we were only on Twitch, we could do this for six hours, five days a week, and have 10,000 people watching us at once, and every third message getting deleted by the moderator. Don't we have to be almost nude, though, to get that to happen? I got man boobs. I see eight nipples. Yeah, we're good.
    28:10
    So Stu played today, one of our reoccurring people that come on the show, Scott, because he picked up the roller games. and how many thousands of people did you have on Twitch? Thousands of people. That matchup for the ages got up to at least 11. Woo! Tight.
    28:29
    Yeah. No, you've got to have a hot tub, an inflatable. Mr. Turtle Bowl, anything will do. Right, Marty? I mean, that's the whole new structure of certainly flying around, probably Melbourne Silver Ball. I would suggest it for Slam Tilt as well. We're in cold New York State, so that's hard. You guys in Canada are so built for this. the cold and everything like that. You'd like to slip into a nice, hot, warm temperature. I have a question. So if the hot tub gives you the Twitch numbers and DJing gives you the Twitch numbers, can you just do both? Like be in the hot tub while DJing? That is a great idea. I think so.
    29:03
    By the way, what the fuck is Twitch doing? Like allowing all this stuff? I don't know. Revenue. I guess, yeah, revenue and keeping... Yeah, basically if you're not nude, it's just, you're good. I think it was kind of starting this way when Amazon took over. Yeah, with the Prime subscription. Yes. I think when your revenue also gets cut a bit more as well, people are now desperate to make more money. Yeah. So what did you guys think of Mando? My first impression was I liked the look of it. I liked the art. I liked the look of the play field. I was pleased that Brian Eddy didn't do a cookie cutter of his old games. But then the more I thought about it, I thought to myself, I think it's going to be a tough game just because the entrance to a lot of the shots are really close to the flipper. So if you miss your shots, I think it's going to be a bit dangerous. The question I ask, and I think a lot of people say this as well, I'm not sure how much fun that upper play field is going to be. And which one will be more fun? The pro with one flipper or the premium with two? I think whatever has you up there the least amount of time. Yes. Well, you're in the game, Artie. There's the one guy that looks just like you in the game. Who's this? I think he's in, like, episode one of season two. The Marshal. Okay, wait, wait. Give me some names so I can Google this right now. Type in Timothy Oliphant for Mandalorian. Yeah, if you look at the artwork, it looks like you. It looks like you. I don't see the resemblance at all, but he looks like a very attractive person, so I will take it as a compliment.
    30:44
    Obviously, yes. Don't get them excited when we're in a hot tub together, for God's sake. Sorry. Come on. I see the flag saluting, and that's all.
    30:55
    I will say I'm looking forward to that play field. Just because at first I thought it only had, like, two positions. Like, it goes up or down. But it has multiple positions. It basically goes from simple to, like, bonsai run verticalness. and from what I've been able to surmise, I guess, as you need to progress, it gets harder and harder to hit the targets because the thing just keeps moving and you have to adjust to the gravity and all that. Yeah, and I think that's going to be fun. And maybe if you hit all your targets, it disables the flippers and then you get out of there so that you're not in there over and over again, kind of like a WWE or wrestling. Yeah, I think Dwight Sullivan already said he kills the flippers at some point so you don't sit there forever. And what do you think of the impossible play mode? That sounded interesting. Yeah. It's perfect for you, Bruce. Impossible play mode is like the mode for people who don't like to trap ever. Basically, if you hold the flipper in, it will just have a power meter and drain your flipper, and then it will just die if you leave the flipper up too long. No hold barred. Basically, yeah, like no hold flipper. Yep. Sounds like a luck box thing. I mean, if I'm being honest, I like a little bit of trap up. I like that maybe if you trap up, I think Keith Johnson did it on guns, if you trap up, not your power of your flippers goes, but the scoring decreases. I don't like the power of the flippers decreasing. It's meant for more of like a party thing and to be short games. It's not like a tournament thing. But I thought it sounded interesting. I was actually hoping for Wi-Fi compatibility or something like, you know, we still haven't seen that from Stern. When is that going to come out? yeah i mean not only has it not come out jjp has been going in their backlog and adding wi-fi they just added it to hobbit which i'm like okay where's my uh dialed in where's my wi-fi it's got to be coming where's my wi-fi and where's my um uh what's the name of that the scoring thing score bit where's my score bit man yeah that's nice to see that they are backlogging it but when's stern gonna catch up or did the stern still not think this is a selling point No, it's coming. And they've said it's coming. They've said for two years, over two years. Okay, but here's the thing. There's a big difference between Jersey Jack and Stern as far as how agile they can be. Stern is a much larger ship, so therefore it steers slower. So it's like when the JJP first came out with Wizard of Oz and had a screen, and everyone's like, well, when's Stern going to do it? well, Stern's going to do it, but it takes them a lot longer because they've got to do them in much larger numbers. They want it to be more robust.
    33:45
    And also, you know, they said that it's an 18-month cycle of game development. And to implement a service like this, I think they want to do it bigger and better, and therefore it's going to take longer. But I think they just want to get it right before it's going to release. I'm not trying to defend them. No, but they already practiced on this one game. Not many people know about this, but they did it on the Transformers that they brought to Expo, ten of them. That was actually the first Wi-Fi compatible game. They did it as a test subject for Spike 1. I never heard anything bad about it, but they never went with it.
    34:19
    Okay, that's it. It was almost like a gimmick. Can I ask a question? If they start doing this, does it increase the sales, or is it just going to be the same anyway? So all that development to do this, what's the payoff? I think for newer people playing, it probably is more of a payoff. And maybe even for more tournament players, like getting the scores instantaneously, put right on the thing. That is a nice perk of Scorbit. Oh, I love Scorbit, no question. Yeah, and that is a nice thing when you had a tournament logging scores or anything like that. That's a lot nicer. How much is that piece to put on for a game? $350? Or $325, I think it was, something like that. So if it comes free or if it gets added on later on to games, that's a nice selling perk. Oh, that's right. We don't charge $1,000 extra for JJP. So it's really like $675 you're getting it for.
    35:10
    That's the only – Well, I wonder, I mean, if they add Wi-Fi, it'd have to be an operator who's like under 50 to even know how to set it up or what it can do, et cetera. If you've got an old-time operator who's getting it, they're never even going to know how to put it on, how to join it to an SSID and actually get it on the Internet. They're not even going to do that. Or if it's in a laundromat, do they even have, you know, some places don't even still have it. Do they even have Wi-Fi? Yeah. You know, I think the people are seeing this as a way to keep track of scores across the country, maybe get update code, that's the big one, so you don't end up with, like, beta versions of code. Guardians first came out. Yeah, I would argue as Stern has progressed and has hired way more programmers that they're doing a way better job as far as games that are near complete when they actually release and they're not at sub-alpha code. Guys, I'm starting to prune up. I'm going to hop out of the hop-tep here. It looks like we've got our... Whoa, Jeff, Jeff, cover that thing up. Cover that thing up, man. Wow. I'm sorry? The nose right down there. Wow.
    36:22
    Carpet matches the drapes. Come on. I see that. Wow. So one of the things we've been hearing about, Bruce, is that you have been working with others to open up this pinball collective in East Rochester. I'm excited for it. I'm also asking the question that comes to mind for a lot of people after doing an incredible job with Cat at Silver Ball Saloon. Wow, you're doing this again. Is it different in a way? How is it different than Silver Ball Saloon? I know COVID is the only thing that fucked that up because that place was incredible. So how is it going to be different with the collective? It's not all me, first thing. It's not all me or Kat. Kat is actually just a support system for me now. I'm only one of five people, so the good thing is it's only 20% me, first thing. So it's not all the extra hours. It is a lot of hours. Don't get me wrong. It still is. It's just 20% loud. Yeah. I'm just blessed to have four other people who are as excited about being in pinball as I am. So it's really a nice joint venture, which is really working well. And Ron came there and saw what we've been doing. And the difference with this is and why we're doing it is, first, it's going to be bigger. It's 45 games at least we have inside there right now. So the old silver ball, the max we had was 24. So we've increased a lot. Second, there's no food or alcohol except for just like soda and chips. So that's a lot simpler for me. That was a lot of drain. And I think it's the time. I really do. Besides, you know, we have a couple good places of pinball in Rochester, you know, but I've always wanted to have just an arcade. I remember you saying that one of the hardest things, and most business operators will say the same thing, especially in that bar industry, the hardest thing, let's forget COVID aside, that was the hardest thing. But normally the hardest thing is staffing. That has to be a lot easier with the collective. Yes, because it's all volunteer space with us five. We're only going to be open a couple days. That's the good thing. We're starting off with two days, and then eventually we'll hopefully go to three days. So it's going to be like the Sanctum.
    38:29
    That's where we're basing off. I talk to a ton to Jim from the Sanctum. He's a great guy. He's been very helpful. The Sanctum, which is a co-op in Connecticut, for those who don't know. But yes. so he's been very helpful and he's told us what he's done in the past and it's really worked out our initial date was originally june 5th but we're waiting on the town co which is the certificate occupancy once we get that then we can set a hard date and it'll be like the first two or three weeks will be a soft opening and then we'll go fully what we need to do and i'm doing this plus i'm moving just like marty is you know with the house and everything like that so it's a double whammy for me, but you're going to get all different games there. We have a wood rail from 1955 all the way up to 2018, 2019. So a good selection of games. And there will be streaming there just like, unlike Ron bringing the streaming rig to Silver Ball Saloon, we actually have their own rig there, which I'm going to be setting up the equipment hopefully next weekend. Is there a hot tub? There's not a hot tub. No, no, but there's a Ferrari downstairs. Oh, yeah, that's right. brand new Ferrari sitting on a turntable. You can hop in that. That can be your next sponsor. I don't know how Porsche will feel about that, being our first sponsor, I think they were. So look, in Melbourne, and I know around Australia, there has been over the years that I've been involved in Pimble C, and many discussions about getting collectives set up. I don't know of any at this stage that have been successful. And right now, I believe in Melbourne, it's come up and there's discussions about it at the moment. What are some of the challenges that you think people need to overcome getting a collective together? Cheap space is number one. That's the key to it all. What we're paying right now for our space is really cheap because it comes with all the maintenance that's done on the building. Bathrooms are separate. It's almost like the bathrooms are separate, so the bathrooms are taken care of by the complex. We get heat electric for free. It's included in our rent. So for us, it's a big, humongous. Our bills are literally rent, insurance, and then maintenance on machines. That's our biggest three things. So that is the big thing, and plus being able to mesh with the other people. That is another humongous thing, and it's growing pains. It always is, even with us five. I've known Zach for five years. We're like, hey, you're always going to have a vision, but now you have to mesh it with five people. It was easier with just me and Kathy, of course. I'm going to be the first to say that because we both talked about our visions, and we're husband and wife. We've got to learn to compromise. It's harder with more people in the co-op, so you have to mesh better. And we are learning that, and it's actually getting easier as we go along further. And I have talked to your Australian brethren about helping them out with the co-op. I did know that. I did know that too. It was a bit of a loaded question. Because my understanding, because I've spoken to a lot of people about co-ops and what they've said, the most important thing in getting a co-op together is the people that are in the co-op together and how compatible you are. You would agree with that? Totally agree with that. Me and Zach are like – me and Zach are, of course, we're the repair guys. So we get along really well. We'll fix stuff. We'll bicker like father and son because Ron makes fun of me because of my age. Right, Ron? We all do. You are older. Older than me, Marty? Yeah, but that doesn't stop me from making fun about your age.
    42:11
    Marty looks way younger than you. There you go. He does. But it is a hard thing to mesh. And don't forget, when you put so much money into it in the beginning, you don't want to see it go to something whack your stupid. But, of course, you're also looking at the whole picture of how do I get this whole place running and making it perfect. So it is a hard battle. But as you can see, most of these co-ops work, you know, and some really thrive, like the Sanctum and a couple others that are out in the Midwest. That's what we're hoping for also. That's what Ron needs where he is because there's no pinball other than level zero. Hit the coast town besides his place. Well, yeah, and maybe people's houses. But, yeah, there's some games on location but not many. You're still in lockdown, aren't you, up in Canada? Yes, we are, for at least another two weeks. It's brutal. And that's kind of where I wanted to talk about the next thing, was the ability to be able to travel and play pinball. So Ron has to because of where he lives, other than playing in his own home and some local leagues. I know, Bruce, you said that you now have more availability and you're going to try to get out to more things. You said even maybe InDisc and maybe Expo. I'm getting out. I'm going to enjoy. I'm going to start enjoying life. What do you think is going to happen when the IFPA opens up? Because we are seeing tournaments happen right now, but they're still non-sanctioned, but they're still getting good turnouts. It's just there's something about that point structure and the ranking system and all those kind of fun things. A big thing for Ron is being part of the Stern Rewards Program because you've definitely taken advantage of that. So I can get my game. Yeah, so how that works is if you're in the top 1,000 ranked in the world, you get quite a huge discount from Stern on one of their new in-box games, depending on what the titles are available. So I know a lot of people have taken advantage of that. I mean, you're the president, right? You know all these rules. Yeah, yeah.
    44:10
    No, I'm hoping for the tournaments, of course, to start up. We're actually going to have one at the co-op once we open, probably July. The 26-hour tournament? The 26-hour will be the pinnacle.
    44:25
    Are you actually going to do that? Yes, I am. 26 hours or just 25? It has to be two hours more. Yeah, I'm saying, no, we can go one hour just to be a little better. More stomp tournaments? Oh, yes, we are definitely going to have stomp. Actually, we had somebody ask today on the stream, when's the next stomp? We're going to have another stomp, and that's going to be probably at the co-op, of course, since we have more games, more selection, more room. We have almost 3,000 square feet at the co-op. I'm just making a note here.
    44:55
    2022, next pinball profile world tour, East Rochester. Okay. The best pinball profile world tours, of course, are the ones that happen in Australia. Yes, because what happens in Australia is... Oh, that's right. Jeff can't talk about them. I tried to get him to say it. Damn it. Yeah. So what's going on? You know, how was that tournament in Australia when it went down there? Was it very competitive? It would have been competitive had I been in the tournament, but I chose to do the streaming instead. I would have won easily. I can tell you now. I commend you for that. It takes a big man to do something like that. Yeah, correct. Yeah, Ron, like you played in yours for Stomp 1, and you won that. I mean, and you're going to say, oh, they pressured you. They said, come on, please, Ron. Oh, I was at least one tournament. They said they would pay for me to play in it. They demanded that I play because I think we were one person short for like full Whopper points. Like, you guys are terrible, man. So they forced me to play in it. You could have said no. I was peer pressured. I was peer pressured by Whopper points. I blame Josh Sharp. So what I'm hearing is I think we all agree winning your own tournament is very bad form. Oh, it is. Totally. Oh, it is. Totally. I don't know who would brag about that all the time. Yeah, I agree. Yep. What are your thoughts on this, Jeff? I've traveled the world, and I can say there are some places that I've seen some incredible competition, some great players. In other places, it's like you're supposed to press the flipper buttons. But that's all I'll say, Craig Silvey.
    46:37
    Are you saying it's like upside down at this place? Yeah. I honestly don't remember what happened because I was so hammered at that tournament. They were giving me fireballs every game I played. I think it was a flip frenzy. I must have played 20. That's like 20 shots. So I have no idea what happened. At least you had your beautiful wife with you. That's the good thing. Thank God for Ann. You're right. She's a godsend. You are lucky, sir. Thank you. So you guys having some fun on TPN? We are here at Final Round, and I know Ron has been doing it for quite some time with another Canadian, and David Dennis, and doing the Silver Ball Chronicles, which is a great history piece. I got to tell you what I love about this. There are so many podcasts that are just current news, and there's a place for that, no question about it. But what you and David are doing, you can listen to a year from now. It's a great history piece. Obviously, you're going to have people listen right away, but I'm just saying you'll be able to go back and go, wow, that's a good recollection of whatever the topic may be, whoever the designer is, whatever the rules, whatever the era you're doing. I think that's great. And I think of other podcasts that I like that. I try to do that with Pinball Profile in some small way, but I think of Topcast, and I think you guys are both familiar with that. But I like going back and listening to some of these. I think Silver Ball Chronicles is going to have that same kind of impact. That was actually more, believe it or not, my idea to be less silly, which seems crazy. But, yeah, I think originally David wanted it to be a little more funny or a little more topical. It like let not mention stuff that actually going on because it supposed to be like a history thing so people can listen to it any i think it great i very proud of ron and david what they done and i enjoy the shows and i love it criticizing them when i can yes he sends in corrections a lot he's our most frequent emailer is is bruce we try our best to get it right but we are we are not perfect no nobody's perfect but they do a great job and honestly i look forward to your guys podcast and i look forward to those podcasts. I look forward to a lot of the TPN podcasts. I enjoy them very much. Are we going to hear another one with you and Kat? Because that was good. Yeah, we are going to. It's going to take a while. With the house and everything and the co-op, it's hard enough where every other week I'm doing Ron and doing work and everything like that. So we will be getting back on. I think the next one we're planning on doing it in our new pool. So that's the best thing about it. We're just going to do it right in the pool.
    49:00
    Recording, you mean? Yes. See, that's like, I'm telling you, the podcast thing with the pools, big money. Good idea. No, we're going to be on the west side. So we're going to be closer to you, Jeff, and further away from Ron. I got to tell you, listening to Slam Tilt, you joked about it earlier, but I do think it's what makes the show unique is, you know, you don't always talk about tournaments. You certainly have had a lot of regular guests that are now in the pinball profession. Tim Sexton was on all the time. He now works for Stern. Steve Bowden was on all the time. He now works with DeBrew, and they go on and on and on. You had the one on for a long time, Keith Snell at Stern. There's just so many of these people. Raymond Davidson. Marty Robinson. You know, we've got all these guys. Marty Robinson. I don't know who that is.
    49:46
    We can't get Ryan Seahard. There's just something about that guy. No, no, that's Ryan's doing. Let's be honest. That's him. But what you also do is tech talk, and I know nothing about it. But I want you to know it's not a tune-out factor for me. I try to learn a little bit. Like I watch Marco's specialties and what Emoto's been doing there in South Carolina when they do those streams. I try to learn something. I'm kind of lost, but I have to be picking up something because they're very good and detailed, and you kind of do that too on Slam Tilt. We are going to do it probably at the co-op. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. That was another one of the reasons for getting streaming equipment in there is to actually stream some of the tech repairs because when you have 45 machines, they are going to break a lot. There should be a lot of material there. And I actually enjoy it. We all know Chuck Webster very well. And about a year ago during COVID, he actually was doing a playfield swap. And that was so enjoyable to watch for myself, especially because I was like, it's the middle of pandemic. He's stuck at home and he's like, I'm going to do a playfield swap. And I'm going to show it every other day that I'm doing this. And I was like watching him going, wow, that's something new I had ever thought of. Or, oh, hey, he's doing something that I like to see. And if I could do even one helpful hint for somebody, I feel better about myself. And I feel like I can help the community. So even though we both say that you're in upstate New York, you're still not really close to each other, are you? No. So is the co-op closer to you? Oh, me, yeah. It's only 20 minutes. It's actually, as you've never been here, but Jeff has been here. The co-op is literally an eighth of a mile from where the old Silver Ball Saloon was, which was about 20 minutes from my house. For Ron, it's about three hours. Yeah, three and a half. I'm closer to Bruce than Ron.
    51:37
    My wife would love to hear your voice every day, Marty. I told her I was going to be talking to you guys tonight. She's like, can I stay up? I'm like, no, just go to bed. I'm done. Well, I think it's like you say a lot, Marty, where everyone thinks, you know, you're in Australia. Oh, you must be right next to each other. It's like, no, we actually have to fly in a plane to get there. That's actually true, yeah. When they hear they're in New York, it's like, oh, you're in New York. You must be just like right next to each other, right? Like, no, it's actually New York's a pretty big state. It takes a while. But in the United States, everything's kind of drivable. I mean, I'm not talking Seattle to Orlando by any means, but I'm talking about anywhere in New York State, certainly drivable. The thing about Australia that I've noticed, you're hours and hours away from another major place. Isn't that correct, Marty? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ten hours drive from city to city. Wow. No wonder they don't have coronavirus. I know. You guys are very lucky with that. Correct. Although, you know, it's still coming back. There are some states that have got restrictions. But for the most part, yeah, that probably is why transmission from major city or state to state doesn't happen that often. But it does. Jeff, congratulations on your first shot. Oh, I'm so happy about that. My sister gets hers tomorrow. My brother gets his next week. So I know how excited she is. She's just giddy. And I'm like, yeah, I felt the same way too. And Ed did when he was on a couple of weeks ago. It's sickening that we have to feel that way. But it's obviously the path to us getting back to quote unquote normal. But yeah, no, I'm very happy for you guys that you're finally on the path. And Marty, did they say when for you guys, if ever? I can pretty much get the vaccine now if I want it because they've now opened it up to over 50s. So benefits for being old. Yes. But we really just don't have a lot of cases. And the cases that we've got are people coming from overseas. Well, that's the thing. If you want to travel, like, I don't know if everyone here knows this, but the IFPA 17, which was supposed to happen in May of 2020 in Fort Myers, Florida, that is now postponed to May 2022. It was supposed to be in November. It was supposed to be like the week after Free Play Florida or the week before it. And I was like, oh, that's great, a perfect two-week trip if I can get across the border. But now it's been pushed off to May. And the big reason is, I think, is there are some places that have travel restrictions, Canada being one of them, but I would imagine a lot of other places too. Is it still a two-week quarantine for Australia right now still, Marty? Yeah, it is. Okay, yes. And I know in Canada there's no coming in, you know, you don't even get the choice. I think it's only if you have, like, a mandatory, like, repairs. I think my one company that I used to work for, the only way they can go into the country, if they have a letter from the company stating they have to repair this machine and they're the only people that can repair it in the world. It's the only way they're getting into Canada. Where does Joe Schmo say, hey, come on in. Hey, you, you got money? Come on in. Yeah, come on. Yeah, we'll see. But one thing that did make it across the border, and it had to cross a couple of borders to do this, is the coveted Reach Around trophies. And, Ron, you and Bruce both got yours, and they're slightly different, aren't they? Yes. Mine's bigger. Ron's got big balls. Yes, he's got big balls. Mine's bigger. Who chose that? Come on, guys.
    55:03
    Marty, of course. It really was. It's funny. So for everybody, so of all the trophies that we made, one of them had small balls. And I thought to myself, who out of all these, obviously, winners, you know, they bought them, but winners, I thought, who's the person that I would feel has got the smallest balls? Wow. so it wasn't random i think is the summary of what i'm saying wow i love it thank you but you had a big hand tripled up just because mine is yeah i have a really big hand that's exactly i'm gonna go with that good answer good answer survey says just makes your hand look bigger all right that's one way of thinking about it anyway it was nice to uh have you guys on that reach around award show uh marty wants us to do it again i'm like i i beg for you guys to do it Yeah, because I had such a good time laughing my ass off at some of the people's acceptance speeches. Oh, my God. Hop rope. That was the... It's still going, I think. Jeff obviously jokes because he knows my feelings towards it. But at the end of the day, Jeff does most of the work. So I am more than happy to do it every year.
    56:17
    That's not true. And my reach around is right on top of my toilet. Just like I said, I would put it. Yep. This is where they normally are. Mm-hmm. It was fun to do. No question about it. And I keep saying to Marty, you know, when we first did it, I'm like, oh, I've got 12 months if I have to do this again. Well, now we're in May, and I'm like, it's only eight months. And we joke with Ed. We're like, hey, we're going to contact you for another song. And he's like, yeah, door's open. I'm like, okay, fuck, we'll get him to do three.
    56:45
    He can edit the show as well if he wants. Yeah. Do the acceptance speeches for everyone. I'm happy. Yeah, that was just hilarious. Oh, my God. More red carpet, though. We need more red carpet. Yeah, I agree. I totally agree with that. Like a pre-pre-show. Like you have the pre-show. Oh, God. A pre-pre-show. Oh, yeah. And then the post-show. You got to have like highlights. Like, look what happened here. Here's the shocker of it all. That'd be great. I like that idea too. Okay, here's the thing. You guys are the only award winners on this actual program. Marty, myself, fuck all. We've never won shit. But we've all been doing podcasting for basically five years, roughly, give or take. and what I want people to understand is those shows are entertaining and they're fun. I'm going to put up my hand and I'm going to guess the same for Marty, the same for Bruce, the same for Ron. When we started podcasting, there weren't any award shows. So do you think we're doing this to win awards or we get the feedback from people who contact us on Facebook or write us an email and stuff like that. That's what makes us feel good. We entertain each other. That makes us feel good. We have guests like you guys. That's all wonderful. That's why we do it. We don't give a shit about the other stuff. I'm in it for the glory. All the money, groupies, all the perks you get with this. That's why I'm doing it. But, okay, here's something. When you first started podcasting, I can only think of Coast to Coast and the Pinball Show. And the Flippin' Pod. That Flippin' Podcast. And this Flippin' Podcast. I think that was it. Yeah, I think that's about it. There might have been one or two other little ones, but no, there wasn't many. This Flippin' podcast was actually the inspiration Just because it had the two-person show And I listened to that Yeah, Tommy Taylor and I listened to that And it's like, you know, me and Bruce could do this I mean, he was the only one I ever thought I didn't have anyone else in mind It was going to be Bruce It's like, we could just talk about stuff Like, before Bruce had the bar We used to go to shows all the time And we had crazy conversations Like, you know, if we could translate that to the podcast I think it could be pretty good so that that's that's what we did i mean on the podcast i am how would you say if you were doing it like comedians like i'm the straight man and he's the comedian or however you say that but yeah i'm abbott i guess but but but in real life uh when we would go to shows we would both be just as stupid oh yeah oh yeah totally like i i cannot imagine doing what i do right now without him and you guys just met at shows like i mean you didn't live in the same city that's really how you can uh we i went to a well you talk about not having anywhere to play pinball back in 2005 i really didn't have anywhere to play pinball so i see this thing on a yahoo group of all places of uh it was what was it bruce the western new york arcade and pinball club or something like this is pre-google and it was like i'm having a party at my house and it's in rochester and i was like wow that's like three hours away sure i'll go and that's the first he came in never right yep i came in i think of cookies and that was it first game i played was black knight 2000 which tilted on me immediately because uh you had something leaning on the plumb bob actually didn't work and it just went from there and i just started going to his house for his parties and put a roofie in his drink and then the rest is history yeah started going to shows together and And yeah, I mean, we were friends for over 10 years before we ever recorded an episode. And as I said, Slam Tilt is really Ron, even though Ron is the heart and soul of Slam Tilt. I am just a pretty face. You're right, Ron. He is the comedian. It has no real format other than we just do like topics.
    60:33
    And I just let Bruce say whatever he wants and then edit out things that are exceedingly offensive that would get us in trouble. Oh, yeah. We've been recording for an hour. I might get 20 minutes out of this. Yeah, yeah.
    60:45
    I mean, you think, I always thought I should start a Kickstarter on, like, get these slam tilt raw. Oh, yeah, behind the scenes. Yeah, hear what Bruce really thinks about so-and-so. You know, you think Bruce's apology was heartfelt. Wait till you hear what he actually said. I've never apologized. Come on. Marty, we hear how Ron and Bruce kind of decided to do a podcast. Did I recall this correctly? You heard Ryan C. on Slam Tilt, and kind of knew him and thought, this guy might work for a podcast when you created Head to Head. Some of that's true. I didn't know Ryan. I'd met him twice, I think. Once was when I streamed his America's Most Haunted. The other one was when I bought Mirror Blades from him. And it was kind of the same thing. I went to buy these Mirror Blades, and we talked for hours after, just at his front door, just talking about pinball. And that's when I went, oh, there's something here. And then I did hear him on a podcast. It wasn't Slam Tilt because I really hadn't listened to Slam Tilt podcast at that stage.
    61:55
    But he did get our cease and desist letter. He did get that one time. But the truth is, after I did hear him on this other podcast, I did listen to him on your podcast. And so I thought, yeah, let's do a show together. I never thought we were going to rip off your show at all. No! That was all Ryan. I can tell you now.
    62:15
    I don't consider it a rip off. I consider it a – I actually loved your show. I miss your show. Me too. When you guys did the Christmas special of you two again, it was like I hadn't heard you in over a year and a half together really, just by yourselves. And you guys just clicked so instantaneously within the first two minutes. I was like, ah, I'm driving my car like, yeah, it's like heated seats on. I'm enjoying the nice. Yes, it's perfect. I would say that Head to Head podcast was the only time I almost had to pull over while I was listening to it because I was laughing so hard. Well, the thing of it is, we've sort of said this as well, Ryan and I still have those moments. We just don't record it, and we don't need to record it. I agree. But it's like with you having Zach on Slam Tilt all the time. I've told Ryan, you're coming on every five, six episodes. There's no ifs, ands, ors, or buts about it because people want to hear your Marty and Ryan again. Of course. But Ryan is a great – he might have a little pecker. We all know about that. My little pecker. Thank you. Okay.
    63:20
    But we all love Ryan, and we all love all – I am grateful for the friends I have. We have our own little podcast, Click, where we are on all one big chat. And, oh, my God, I live just seeing some of the comments that come out of that because some of them are out in the left field and I laugh my ass off. And I just feel like I am so lucky to have met so many people all over this world and I can talk to them almost every day that I want to. I really do feel that way. Thank you, guys. Yeah, great. You know, this has been good having you guys on here. It's kind of like when you guys do the clusterfuck except without all those assholes. Those are Marty's words, not mine.
    63:58
    Wow. How do you think I felt when I'm like, hey, Jeff goes on and goes, hey, you know, I'm going to get you on after Ed Robertson. I'm like, great. So we go from really good to, oh, fuck nuts. And then watch, next week, two weeks from now, you're going to have a great guy on. This is like a bump in the road. We're going to have Gary Stern on. Here's a sneak peek. Coming on next week, Gene Simmons. Oh, God. Arguably, I think that was always going to be the case regardless of who we got on. I think we got Gene on right now. Gene, hello?
    64:28
    Have you played a Kiss pinball machine today? If not, you need to. Who is this person trying to imitate Gene Simmons here? That's right. I'm Gene Simmons' brother. Gene Simmons, spelled differently. There's only one Gene Simmons, and you know who he is, because he's the absolute greatest rock star of all time. There are no other people, only Gene Simmons.
    64:50
    Yeah, that's right, bitch, but you can't do this voice as good as I can. You've failed. How crusty. All right. You're going to make Ron. Listen, I can't compete with Ron Howell Jr. He is the ginger. I'm the ginger. He beat out Mark Silk and made Mark Silk quit the retry show. That's powerful stuff. I love Mark Silk. Yeah. I do, too. But can you guys do an Aussie jailer? Now, that is the test of good voice talent.
    65:24
    And how would that sound? Give it to us, Marty. the Sydney jail is now open there you go thank you thank you all very much and a standing ovation and the crowd is going wild it'd be more like oi I missed that shot again these shots are too tight I can't eat shit in this game order your American pinball Houdini right now the lines are open get the skill shot you c*** oh I hope I remembered to edit that oh Thank you so much for coming on and I'm glad you guys there was a time when it looked like Slam Tilt wasn't going to happen anymore but thankfully that's not the case I know you were a lot busy before Bruce and you're probably still just as busy now but you found the time to get together and still give us Slam Tilt every fortnight and we appreciate it Thank you for having us on guys Thanks! You know what I love most is after you talk to the guests then Marty's going to be Jeff, what did we learn today?
    66:24
    And the answer will be, that's my favorite part. That's like South Park. You know, I learned something today. Ding, ding, ding. But I think in this case, we all know in advance, we have learned fuck all. There's your answer. Sneak peek. Squat diddly. Absolutely nothing.
    66:45
    Let's do it with them on here, all right? We'll find out what we learned with them on here. Marty, go ahead. So, that was Ron and Bruce from the Slamtook Podcast and Silverball Chronicles. But, Jeff, what did we learn? How to say goodbye to all your listeners.
    67:03
    They're online and they're not saying anything. I am fucking saying it. Holy shit. I'm kidding. You vicious, heartless bastard.
    67:15
    Gene Simmons next week. Don't worry. Okay, boys. Thanks a lot. Thank you, man. Thanks, guys. So, Jeff, what did we really learn? Now, I know they're listening to this part because they weren't with us when we recorded this part. But what we really learned was they have great chemistry. And to do that for five years, like that's a real tip of the cap. How many people have come and gone and burned out or just been discouraged and rightly or wrongly just, you know, not made for the longevity of Slam Tilt. But I guess it goes back to their, you know, 10 plus year friendship of hanging out at shows and stuff. And I tip my cap to those guys. I really do, and they do mean a lot to me. Yeah, same. And what I learned was that it's good to have two people on a podcast that want to continue with it. Snap.
    68:04
    Wow. I have no idea what that means. No, I don't either. No idea. Podcasting is fun for you and I. We do it. Honestly, the fact that other people listen, great, good. We honestly do it for each other. okay there's sponsors too let's be honest there is sponsors but we've mentioned so many times we put so many hours of in this into it every fortnight and ron and bruce have done it for five years and other podcasts have done it for years it still comes back to the fact that there really isn't money in this how dare you you son of a bitch here i am muscling trying to get sponsors and I got a great one, and you're just going to piss all over it. Well, we can change that, Jeff. Can we? Are you okay? I've got the script right here for our sponsor of the week, and this looks like it's got money written all over it. Let's do it. We've seen all the streamers flock to Twitch since the start of the pandemic. TBN has several to view. Ping Clash and the new Ping Clash 2 are huge successes. Yet, compared to video gamers and DJs, us pinballers are lacking in views and subscriptions.
    69:12
    Not anymore. Make your Twitch stream better and wetter with the new final round inflatable pool. Forget Carl D'Angelo's portable rig. Just grab this tub, a little bit of water, and even less of a bathing suit, and voila. You might ask yourself, what does sitting half naked have anything to do with gaming and streaming? Fuck all, but Twitch doesn't care as long as you have thousands of viewers and subs and they get their cut. Promise your viewers you'll write their names on your body parts if they sub or donate Oh, thanks for the bits, Ryan C OnlyFans websites cost money to get your freak on But on Twitch, they consider it just chatting Even though every fourth chat gets booted for being too pervy Don't worry, your viewers will continue to chat But this time, a little more clever Like if you're streaming in your pool and riding an inflatable hot dog No one will boot you off for saying, wanna see a bigger wiener? By the way, if you think that's rude, that's on you. Your mind went there. I happen to own a six-foot Oscar Mayer inflatable. So get your mind out of the gutter. Get your final round inflatable pool and stream today on Twitch. Remember, you can't spell Twitch without T-I-T.
    70:23
    So, Jeff, I've been dying to know. I've been sitting here this whole episode. I've had to sit, endure through Ron and Bruce and our sponsor of the week and all the while thinking to myself, what has Jeff been up to this last fortnight? Yeah, we really should put this at the start of the show because it is obviously what everyone listens to. Nobody fast forwards it. It is more important than any pinball news. But this is actually pinball news because I got my new Led Zeppelin playfield. Ah, and how did that go? Did you, was it populated or did you have to populate it? If it wasn't populated, I'd still be doing that. It would take me forever to do that. So luckily, thankfully, Stern and our distributor worked out a deal. I got a populated play field, and I know others who had the same kind of issue, and they got one too. So it's not just me. It's not just a guy who's podcasting and speaks so that a lot of people can hear this. It has nothing to do with that because I do know others that had this problem, and that's the great comfort zone. I said it before that it's a big purchase, and I want to make sure that is there some kind of warranty or service that they guarantee, and they did. So thank you to everyone involved. And it was populated. It is three chords and then I think a Nodeboard plug-in, which I didn't know. I had the three chords out. I'm like, why is this coming out? I was able to put it in. No problem.
    71:46
    I've actually, at the time of this recording, only played it maybe not even ten times. Now, keep in mind, Marty, my games are long, right? So I can't get a lot of games in, right? So they're long. Oh, of course. You know how it is. I do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so I've really enjoyed it, and everything's working fine, and I've been chatting with Raymond Davidson quite a bit because he did this incredible, I don't know if you saw it, a wicked, like, 50-minute tutorial of Led Zeppelin. And I played a few games and I thought I really should know what I doing I watched a tutorial and I now dying to get on it So can we hurry this up please We will But we've now got the pros here in Melbourne and obviously throughout Australia. I still haven't played it. You'll get to it. You've been busy this last fortnight, haven't you? Well, I have indeed. So, yeah. So last time you gave us the big news that you bought a house, I was talking to you earlier in the week. You were at the house, and I was like, oh, I can hardly wait to get there. It's so gorgeous. And basically, the second room he goes to, and this is where the pinball machines go. Well, there's bad news. What? There's bad news. All right? I'm going to tell you the bad news. So remember when I said one of the things that I love about this, obviously, is that I can now fit eight pinball machines in my game room. Yes. That's bad. Well, that's good. However, however, this person that we're buying the house from, absolute audacity to throw in a free piano. I saw the piano. That's nice. What are you talking about? Two pinball machines will fit there. I know, but you've only had four, so you're still going up to six and you can move the piano. That piano is pretty nice looking. It was actually, I was like, absolutely no way. What? And I kind of looked at them and went, oh, you know, it's kind of a very cool, funky, ye olde piano. Yeah. So, anyway. Listen, how many machines do you have right now? Two? I have two. Yeah. So the piano stays for now. Once you get up to eight, and maybe there'll be a few from, oh, I don't know, Haggis. Yeah, then you can move the piano. But right now, it's great. So really, what's happened in the last couple of weeks? Give us the news, Marty. Well, didn't we talk about it last episode? Not the official part. Well, I work for Haggis Pinball. It is official. That is exciting. You have to be thrilled. I am thrilled. I'm absolutely thrilled. There's no doubt about it. It's not easy. I've got to tell you, making pinball isn't easy, and it's not like I'm sitting there going, oh, I get to play pinball all day. It's from, you know. I mean, I've been part of this team for 18 months, even longer. but now it's just official and everybody knows but there's a lot that goes into making a pinball I can tell you now What is the biggest surprise in your short time at Haggis that you didn't see coming?
    74:55
    Look, I think it's that I had an appreciation of what goes into the making of a pinball machine but I really didn't get an appreciation for every single minute part that goes into a pinball machine has to be perfect. There are so many links that can be broken if any of the parts that go into it are not precise. Yeah, that for sure makes sense. And we should say what your title is. Well, my title is Game Designer. Yes, yes, very nice. Oh, it's going to be fun seeing what's going on there. Now, are they in the new facility or does that happen yet? There's one leg in, one leg out. So the production line is now... What is it, the Hokey Pokey? It pretty much is. So a lot of the new equipment is now in the new factory. And I've got to tell you, I did one of the coolest things. I mean, working in pinball is cool. This will be boring for so many people, but... So is the rest of the show. It doesn't matter. Go ahead.
    76:04
    So, do you know what a brake press is? No, but I'm dying and this is exciting. You said it was going to be boring. Please tell me what a brake press is. So, effectively, it is this giant bit of machinery that bends and folds metal. Okay. And I had a day of training on it. Of like, was the first half hour, don't put your fingers here. Don't put your fingers there. Watch your loose clothing. The first hour was, here's the startup sequence to turn the machine on and get it ready. Honestly, there's a sequence. If you do not do this sequence, it's like a pre-flight check in an airplane or a helicopter. There are all these things you've got to do in the exact order, otherwise the machine won't work. Okay. And a lot of it's to do with safety. Yes, of course. Did you pass that? Do you know it like the back of your hand? Or are you going to lose the back of your hand? No, no, no, no. I did it. I was actually the first person to bend metal on this machine too. But that was with your bare arms. I mean, that's different, right? I think that's funny because that will be the only time I will ever do it. But it's important for me to know what's possible, what's not possible when we start looking at design and components. So there you go. Oh, fun, fun, fun. I would like to spend a week, a month in your shoes just to kind of learn that, or anybody in the pinball business certainly would know this, and we have a lot of people in the industry that listen to this podcast, believe it or not, and they probably can relate with you, and they'll probably message you too. You can reach us at finalroundpinball at gmail.com. That way I can read the emails too, by the way. Send it to Marty and let me.
    77:48
    No, but again, I would be fascinated of all the things I don't know. You think you know so much. You've been in pinball. It's been a hobby. It's been a passion for years. You think you have an idea, and you certainly do, about here's what I'd like to do with rules. You have people in the industry that create layouts and come up with themes that are maybe unique, not necessarily intellectual properties. And I think that's pretty fascinating just to have this blank canvas. And I speak for everyone. And to be able to put together these fantastic machines that just have us hooked. and I mean look at the excitement we just saw for Mandalorian right yeah yeah it was a week of build up like give it to me give it to me and and I'm sure it's going to be great but I'm also sure the day after it's going to be what's next yeah like it's crack for us well it's it is but I've sort of said this on our podcast before it's not the same person that wants a Mandalorian and is buying a Mandalorian that says, what's next? The person that says, what's next, is the person that the Mandalorian is not for. Yeah, yeah, I agree. So, look, I know we talked with Ron and Bruce about our initial impressions of Mandalorian. I think it looks great. I loved the first season of Mandalorian. I didn't enjoy the second season all that much. So I don't have this emotional connection to the theme is my big problem. See, now, the reason the second season did more for me, and I certainly loved the first one. The first one, the wow factor, and if you don't already know by now, when you see Baby Yoda, Grogu, whatever the hell his name is, you know, the child, that's pretty, you get that feeling once. You watch it again, you don't get that same feeling. But it's still pretty awe-inspiring. Like, how they kept that secret was amazing. You know, that never was leaked. That was a surprise to everyone when they first saw it. So season two was more of a fan payoff, especially for those that watch the animated show The Clone Wars which is, my son who's a huge Star Wars fan, his favorite of all the Star Wars universe. And I have to agree with him, it's some brilliant storylines. Not all of them, but the Ahsoka storylines are just fantastic. So that really paid off with season two. My favorite thing about this Mandalorian pin that we're seeing is that it does include season two. I was worried because of the quick turnaround, are they going to be able to include season two? And they did. I just would have been happy with season one. And I'll tell you why I didn't like season two, really. It's because they introduced a lot of new characters in season two. And I don't think they chose good actors.
    80:30
    Snap! They are not good actors. I mean, Katie Sackhoff, I loved her in Better Psycho-Lactica. I just thought she was just wooden. Kind of like her character, maybe. But, you know, you can play a wooden role and act it. She was just not a good actor, and none of them were. Oh, Rosario Dawson as Ahsoka. I was thrilled when I heard she was cast. I was even more thrilled when I saw her character. The way she moved like the Ahsoka character. Again, being really into the Clone Wars with my son, I have to tell you, I think that is perfect casting. And I can't remember his name and I hate it. I just, we all know him as Gus Fring from Breaking Bad. His character is spectacular as the main villain with the dark saber. Oh, that's good. I enjoyed it. Good, good, good. And they got Carl Weathers to do the speech. I like it. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. I'm just happy to see a layout that wasn't, oh, we've seen that before. So that's going to be cool. And I got to tell you, you guys were talking about the LE and the premium and that kind of upper play field that moves, that's great and fine and dandy. I actually like the Pro just as much. Yeah. Because of the way the ball comes out of it and with the one flipper. You know what? I think of the premium in Aerosmith. One flipper, a bunch of semicircle targets, and then, of course, you can get through the elevator. It kind of reminded me of that, but better. Yeah. Do you know what? I've been saying all week that, for me, It's like a combination of the upper playfield in Aerosmith Premium and the upper playfield in Game of Thrones.
    82:13
    Yeah, yeah. So it'll be fun. And we talked about it. As long as it doesn't stay up there too long, because, you know, like, what's the Pat Lawler? You know, the one with the vertical playfield? Bonzo Run. It's interesting and it's fun. but flipping balls at that elevation actually doesn't feel fun it's split second timing to spell your abc and yeah you're not going to be up there a long time but once you come down you want to get back up there again i can't stand game of thrones upper playfield i don't know there's stuff to do but it just takes away from everything else in the game that is the super speed i would say that also about Black Knight's upper play field. That's why I prefer the pros in both those models. This one, I think it'll be fine, and from what we're hearing, you won't be up there a long time. It's not like it's going to be WWE or WrestleMania or whatever they call that.
    83:10
    So, I'm good with it, and I just look at all the different shots. You had mentioned that some of them were close and maybe dangerous. I don't think they're as close as his last game in Stranger Things. Yeah, I think... I didn't see how close they were, but still, a title I didn't see coming. There's been other titles that have been out there. The fact they turned this around, and think about it, like season two of The Mandalorian came out in October? Yeah. Ended in December? And here we are in May, and they've got assets? I mean, how did they turn that around that quickly? You want to talk about NDA? It's Star Wars, and they're doing this? Yeah. That blows my mind. Yep. Because we remember the story of episode one on the pinball 2000 how the team involved in that had to be in a separate room and they couldn't talk to anybody and they got very limited information as it is because they are just so protective of the ip so yeah they must have had a lot of trust there to to have that and work on it early unless they literally were like okay it's december 15th final episode go especially for the final reveal and i'm not going to say it if you haven't watched mandalorian 2 but the last episode has a major reveal if you look the play field you see who the major reveal is i'll leave it at that okay so that's again that's a quick turnaround did they have the game done without the art the art was the last to come i don't know how it takes the art by the way love the art yeah so do i i actually think it is a very attractive game i think and all models pro premium in le agreed app like you know like sometimes there's one one model that's usually the best or this one that's the worst take your pick yep can't say that about every game i definitely felt that way about avengers i liked all three wasn't a fan of stranger things artwork i like two of the three zeppelins loved all three of the monsters including the black and white yeah see i didn't like the black and white i i thought it was nostalgic i i know it wasn't It wasn't a good seller. It wasn't. But I appreciated it for what it was. And yeah, they had to, obviously, I think they switched to color quickly after that. But again, I like the uniqueness of it. I remember seeing at Expo, I want to say it's Great American something. I think it's called Great American. Please forgive me. Someone will know and send me a note. But I think it's called Great American. They had a black and white Twilight Zone. Yes. Yeah. It is gorgeous. So when I saw the black and white monsters, I was like, that kind of reminds me of that too. And how brave of them to take that chance. And then of course, all the inserts are colored. So you had some color aspect to it too. But again, Mandalorian, so nice looking. Absolutely. I'm sure we'll see them on location soon. One location we will not see them at is, I think it's your home city. I think that's where you said you're from. It's my favorite stomping ground in that city. I know Jesse J loves it too. I'm talking about Frankie's Pizza in Sydney, Australia, and they're getting demolished, I guess, is the best way to say it. Did you hear that? Well, when you say it's the best way to say it, like it actually is being demolished. Like that is actually the word that is being used to describe what's happening. So Frankie's Pizza in Sydney, it's sort of, I'm trying to get my bearings, it's kind of north of the city, near the water, sort of down near. Very near the water. Circular quay down that area. And it's a relatively divey place. Great pizza, live bands, and I think there's probably about eight or nine pinball machines there. It's a fantastic venue. But, yeah, it's going to be demolished to make way for a train station. I think they're trying to relocate it some way, somehow. I mean, that place is just a staple. And the bands that were there, you're playing pinball. I've said this before. Maybe it was on Pinball Profiler here. But if I lived in Sydney, that is 100% one of my hangs because I loved the music that I was hearing. And it was just band after band after band. One of my all-time favorite bands, Wolf Mother, played there for like a birthday gig after they were big and famous too, which was pretty cool. But the music was so good and the pinball machines were good, well lit. The pizza was fun. Funny Joint, the greatest, all-time funniest video I've ever seen. It is mature content. Oh, yeah. Listen, I can't recommend you Googling Frankie's Pizza's video because I can't bring myself to say that, so I will not say Google. So what we're saying is do not look up Frankie's Pizza video. I think it's been pulled, though. Don't worry. Rest assured we can't find the Frankie's Pizza video online. Perhaps it was pulled because of, oh, I don't know, incredible images that were in there. Yeah, you know how there's like a line that you can cross? How many times did they cross it? Right, they just went fuck the line. Yeah, it was a cartoon of just everything possibly horrible you can imagine and done to your pizza. Yep. And yet, that was their promo video. Yep. Oh. Hilarious. I'm sure now they're working on the remake of Fritz the Cat. Uh... Who knows what else? But that's too bad another sad news sorry to end on a downer here but i do want to say some positive things about our good friend somebody i've known actually for years personally not just through podcasting albert agar you know him you love him from pinball nerds podcast he's a reach around winner himself gave a great speech by the way i he's gonna call it quits from the podcasting side and just maybe focus on streaming and stuff. But he was very public about this. I will repeat it. I'm certainly not speaking out of school, but he just, you know, has to worry about his own physical and mental health and had some kind of attacks, I guess, from some of the podcasts he's done and just kind of said, okay, that's it. And he's not alone, by the way. You and I, we don't give a shit. Nah. But we already know we're, what, a year, two years away from being canceled, right? My God, Jay, minutes even. Like we're trying our hardest. I'm waiting for us to stop recording so I can send you a note that says, hey, I'm done. Yeah, exactly. The point is that as it pertains to pinball nerds, he's going to look after him and his family, and that's the right thing to do. And we would do it too if we were in the same boat, by the way. For sure. But podcasters, streamers, anybody who puts themselves out there. Ed Robertson talked about it last week. Bare Naked Ladies, Hall of Fame band, so many hits, millions of albums sold, concerts worldwide. He said, and this was what stood out to me last week, he said, I've had to become a broadcaster, which is his way of saying, I put stuff out there, but it's a one-way street. In other words, ignoring the comments, ignoring the haters from the people, as he said, that would never buy a B&L album. And it's easier said than done. We know people that podcast to this day that engage some of these haters or certainly are disturbed by them. And it's a slippery slope. It's funny because I don't know about you, Marty. It's nice to get good feedback and stuff. But if you read the good feedback and you ignore the bad stuff, I guess what I'm saying is if you read the good stuff, you probably should be reading the bad stuff. So maybe it's better just to ignore it all because, you know, they always talk about don't get too hyped reading your own press clippings. You ever heard that term? No. I just made it up. Okay, it sounded like it. No, but I guess if you're going to pat yourself on the back, you're probably going to take a few shots too kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, look at that episode that Zach did a few weeks ago on the pinball show.
    91:05
    Right? He tackled a hater, and nobody won there, did they? That was hard to listen to. But I am glad it exists. I genuinely mean that I'm glad that it exists and I'm glad that Zach's like, okay, let's just do it why not? I listen to it twice at regular speed and Zach knows this by the way, we have to plug Zach have we said Flippin' Out yet? Contractually obligated this episode brought to you by Flippin' Out Flippin' Out, yeah, please for all your distributor needs did I say Flippin' Out? Yeah, I just did the thing that Zach did was I guess it had just been eating him up for a while but he also I don't think cares but maybe he does, and he just had enough and thought, okay, let's try to talk some reason to people. And I'm sure the other person felt the exact same way. And there was just no give. There was no flipping, as Ed Robertson would sing. There's no taking a look at the other side. Yeah, I know what you're saying. It was like when I was trying to explain to you the merits of DJing, and it didn't matter how much information I was giving you that was fact, you didn't want to change your opinion. I think that's a perfect example. Thanks for bringing that up. I think DJs are great. You know what the problem I had was? The problem you had was understanding. It's the DJs on Twitch who are just bouncing their heads up and down and occasionally pressing a button. They're not making anything. We can't see what they're doing. If they do it in a hot tub, now that's different.
    92:31
    I'd be all over it if you were doing it. We have got to. We have got to do a pinball stream in a hot tub or in an inflatable pool. What do you reckon? I just opened my pool this weekend, so it's a little cold right now, but I've got a few bathing suits that I'd like to try out, and you, the listener, and possibly viewer, are going to be the one who benefits. So there you go. Something to look forward to here on Final Round.
    93:01
    Awesome. Where can people find us? People can find us by going to Facebook and looking up Final Round Pinball. You can go to Instagram, and that's Final Round Pinball Podcast. we are at FinalRampin on Twitter and FinalRampinBall at gmail.com if you would like to send us messages saying we're great saying we're terrible we're not allowed to read any of it did we have any emails last week? I thought we did I think I should check it yeah probably saying how great I am how crap you are the usual Jeff we did have a good email in fact and can I read it? it's from Kevin P Jeff, loved hearing your conversation with Ed Robertson. Glad to hear you saying we should trust the science and get the vaccine. Modern medicine is amazing. So, Jeff, trust the science and walk on the ice. It doesn't take much to be safe. When it's safe, it's safe. The science is clear. It's safe. You can do it. Take it up on the offer. Okay, that's not science. That's a fear. I know it's safe. I'm just afraid. It's like people being afraid to fly. But it's about people being afraid of the vaccine. True, I guess. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Point well made. Thank you. Jeff's getting on the ice, everybody. Jeff is not getting on the ice.
    94:19
    It's an irrational fear. Fear is irrational. It doesn't make sense. It defies logic. Okay. The flying thing. Safest way of transportation. Not so good on the, if there's an accident, survival rate. I'll give you that. But yeah, I just can't see me doing it. I really can't see me doing it. There's no way. I mean, I'm afraid of a couple things. Why am I admitting this? Fuck. I'm afraid of heights. You know this because when we were in Melbourne. Oh, yeah. We went up to the observatory deck and you shut yourself. Oh, well, I did on the way up, but I just. Yeah, no, you didn't enjoy that. Yeah, I was terrified. My wife, she is fearless for everything, right? There's this thing in Toronto called the CN Tower. You've probably heard it, see it. Have you ever seen it? When up it. Oh, that's right. It was at one point the tallest freestanding building in Seattle. And we have Seattle listeners. They have the Space Needle there. It's like their little cousin. It's so small. The CN Tower is huge. And you can go up it like you did. And you can go on the outside where there's a cage so you get the wind hitting you. And now you can do this thing called a skywalk where you walk on the outside of it and you're tethered. And then they say, okay, everybody lean back. and so you're leaning basically off and the tether's holding you. My wife, piece of cake, did it. I was like, oh, again, just feeling sick. You can't do anything. Kevin, who wrote this email, fears, they're real things. You can't get over them. You're not going to take a shot at me? No. No, because as I said, fear is irrational. You can rationalize it in your mind as much as you want, but it's not going to change the fact that you've got a fear. I totally get that. As I talked to you about my whole fingers thing, the chances of me having something shoved under my fingernails is very slim. It's not stopping me from fearing that it's going to happen. Yep. Trust the science, Marty, will you? Trust the science. Yeah. And trust we'll be back in a fortnight. That's it for another show. Another great guest next week. And we'll see you then. Thanks, everybody, for listening. We'll speak to you in a fortnight, Jeff.