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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 15: Tom Has Felt The RUSH

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 34m·analyzed·Mar 10, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Tom Graff's Rush LE delivery experience and rule set deep-dive; Weird Al P3 announcement.

Summary

Tom Graff receives his Rush LE pinball machine after an unconventional delivery (left in driveway during Wisconsin winter), experiences some initial reset issues, and discusses the game's design differences between Pro and Premium/LE models. The hosts explore Rush's complex rule set, combo system, and tournament potential while also previewing Multimorphic's new licensed game: Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilarity.

Key Claims

  • Rush LE was delivered to Tom's driveway without advance notice, sitting in 10-degree Wisconsin weather with flurries and box moisture damage

    high confidence · Tom describing his delivery experience; wife texted him the game arrived while he was at work

  • Rush has reset/freeze issues related to time machine mode on some units, potentially addressable via SD card image reinstall from Stern website

    medium confidence · Tom reported screen freezing and lights going off with no rhyme or reason; resolved test by installing fresh OS image

  • Rush Premium/LE has noticeably easier time machine shot vs Pro due to vertical rubber stoppers instead of round posts, and easier ramp access overall

    high confidence · Raymond Davidson credited for identifying shot geometry differences; Travis confirmed improved shot accessibility on location LE vs his Pro

  • Rush scoop has Cliffy-style metal prong protectors (not previously seen design) that protect edge wear on Premium/LE versions

    high confidence · Tom confirmed excellent condition after heavy play; Travis observed similar protection on location LE

  • There is a drum bonus exploit in current Rush code where building 300-400M drum bonus multiplier via orbit cycling allows 1.5B scores on ball one, expected to be patched

    high confidence · Travis mentioned Eric Stone and Carlos Laser discovered exploit; Travis replicated 1.5B ball one score via right end lane/left orbit cycling

  • Rush's record collection system carries ball-to-ball, allowing tournament players to spend balls 1-2 preparing modes then ball 3 executing massive scores

    high confidence · Travis and Joel discussing strategic flexibility of combo/record system; Raymond Davidson mentioned hitting time machine 4 times before mode start

  • Rush wizard modes are not yet implemented in current code; Tom reached end of multiball content without finding final mode

    high confidence · Tom stated 'wizard modes aren't in there' after progressing through all time machine and other multiballs

Notable Quotes

  • “your game's here in the driveway... It was just sitting in the driveway. Nobody called me. Mind you, it's 10 degrees here in Wisconsin.”

    Tom Graff @ ~2:45 — Illustrates unconventional delivery process for premium pinball machines and operational gaps in Stern/distributor logistics

  • “the shots are phenomenal. I think there's not a shot on the game that I don't think is makeable. If you swapped out the music for somebody else, I'm assuming your view of the game would still be very positive.”

    Tom Graff @ ~10:30 — Tom separating game quality from IP preference; Rush as strong mechanical/rule design independent of Rush the band

  • “one and a half billion on ball one with the drum bonus built up to 300 million or 400 million per shot. It's going to get nerfed.”

    Travis @ ~17:00 — Identifies balance issue in current Rush code requiring developer attention

  • “the combo system... there is so much freedom and flexibility here to build the potential value of things before you even start them. So it's a constant gamble.”

    Joel @ ~18:15 — Articulates Rush's unique rule philosophy of preparation vs. execution; tournament strategy implications

  • “I was so focused on what potential video game type themes it was going to be... when I initially saw Weird Al, I was like, oh man, like I wanted a video game and that wasn't a video game.”

    Travis @ ~28:30 — Reflects community speculation patterns and expectation-setting challenges for manufacturers

  • “For a smaller company like P3 to go out and grab a license and find one as recognizable as Weird Al, that's awesome.”

    Joel @ ~29:45 — Acknowledges Multimorphic's significant licensing coup and positioning for P3 platform growth

  • “this game is going to be in tournaments a lot in the future. I really do.”

    Joel @ ~19:30 — Prediction of Rush's competitive viability based on rule depth and code quality (Raymond/Timmy development)

Entities

Tom GraffpersonJoelpersonTravispersonRaymond DavidsonpersonTimmypersonScott DenisepersonMartypersonJeff Teolisperson

Signals

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Current Rush code contains drum bonus exploit allowing 1.5B+ scores on ball one via right-orbit-to-left-orbit cycling with 300-400M multipliers; expected to be patched by developers Raymond/Timmy

    high · Travis: 'I had like one and a half billion on ball one with the drum bonus built up to 300 million or 400 million per shot. It's going to get nerfed.' Multiple players (Eric Stone, Carlos Laser) confirmed reproducing exploit.

  • ?

    business_signal: Logistics/delivery process gap identified: Rush LE delivered to residential driveway without advance customer notification in winter weather with box damage; suggests possible distributor/operator oversight in premium product handling

    high · Tom: 'my wife calls me... she texted me like, your game's here in the driveway... Typically, you get a call and they say, hey, we got a game for you... That didn't happen.' Package sitting in 10-degree Wisconsin with flurries and moisture.

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Rush positioned as strong tournament candidate based on rule depth, developer reputation (Raymond/Timmy preventing exploits), combo flexibility, and strategic preparation mechanics

    medium · Joel: 'this game is going to be in tournaments a lot in the future. I really do. And with people like Raymond and Timmy behind the wheel, they're not gonna allow there to be some blatant exploit in the game.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rush rule set emphasizes preparation-over-execution gameplay: record collection carries ball-to-ball allowing players to build multipliers across multiple balls before initiating modes, creating high-risk/high-reward strategic flexibility

    high · Joel: 'you could spend all of ball one collecting records, and then ball two continuing to collect records, and then come ball three, you're going to actually start your mode.' Travis noting 'you could spend ball one and two literally just preparing and then ball three hope to just blow it up.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.284

0:00
the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast travis are you that doesn't matter tom are you ready oh yeah perfect
0:19
tom talks he's got something to say tom talks he's got nothing to say tom talks John Jones I got nothing.
0:31
All right. Well, my name is Joel. We're here with Triple Drain. There's three of us, but it doesn't matter. We're really here for one person, one person only. That is Tom Graff. Tom Graff, the owner of a Rush LE pinball machine. And Tom, I know the listeners are just dying. Everybody's just been waiting in anticipation to know, like, what does Tom think? Tom's been staying up late. He can barely sleep. He's been, this is it. This is like rush pinball has been, this is the epitome of your pinball, like once and needs ever. So you finally have one. It is in your possession. But what has come to our attention is, is this has been a roller coaster for you. And so, um, Travis and I just want to, you know, kind of walk you through it. You know, we want to hear about it, but, um, I mean, Travis, you are there, right? You didn't like walk away and he's still on the podcast. Oh, okay. Loser kid hasn't called yet, so it's okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, we've been sending reminders to tell them to ask you, and I just think they're ignoring them. But anyways, Tom, we want to know. Just start at the beginning.
1:38
You're laying awake at night dreaming, and then you hear that you're going to – just start at the beginning. Go for it, Tom. Oh, I was waiting for the call for my game to ship to me and waiting and waiting and waiting.

Multimorphic P3 Weird Al game has 17 songs and is P3's first licensed title

high confidence · Travis listing announcement; Joel confirming music count; all three discussing licensed theme significance

  • Scott Denise composed all background music, transitions, and sound effects on Weird Al P3 game excluding the 17 licensed Weird Al songs themselves

    high confidence · Joel clarifying Scott's orchestration role; 'every other musical note' handling

  • Pro vs Premium/LE differences on Rush are among the largest noticeable gap in recent Stern releases, comparable to Godzilla and Stranger Things tier differences

    medium confidence · Travis noting multiple sources confirm this as 'one of the largest noticeable differences in recent memory'; Joel relating to Stranger Things and Godzilla examples

  • “I was kind of trying to work my way through the game until I found out the wizard modes aren't in there. Oh, okay. Yeah. You see that, Joel? That's what happens.”

    Tom Graff @ ~20:15 — Reveals incomplete code state and shifts gameplay focus from progression to score-building

    • Carlos Laser Los
    person
    Eric Stoneperson
    Zach and Nicoleperson
    Keith Elwinperson
    Rush LEgame
    Weird Al Museum of Natural Hilaritygame
    Multimorphic P3product
    Triple Drain Pinball Podcastorganization
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Flippin' Outorganization
    Loser Kid Podcastorganization
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Multimorphic P3 securing Weird Al as first licensed title represents significant licensing coup for boutique manufacturer; recognizable IP potentially broadening P3 market appeal beyond enthusiast base

    high · Joel: 'For a smaller company like P3 to go out and grab a license and find one as recognizable as Weird Al, that's awesome.' Travis: 'when I initially saw Weird Al, I was like, oh man... I wanted a video game' (reflecting unmet expectations from licensing rumors).

  • ?

    community_signal: Scott Denise serves as orchestrator of Weird Al P3 game audio ecosystem: composed all background music, transitions, and sound effects excluding 17 licensed Weird Al songs, indicating expanded creative role beyond typical scoring

    high · Joel: 'Scott Denise has written every other musical note in the game besides the whatever 16, 17 songs... all of the background music... sound effects, all that stuff.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Rush Pro/Premium/LE gap represents one of largest hardware differentiations in recent Stern releases (comparable to Godzilla, Stranger Things); Premium/LE easier time machine shot, safer scoop return, expression lighting kit

    high · Travis: 'this is one of the largest noticeable differences between those two models that they can remember in recent memory.' Joel relating to Stranger Things and Godzilla examples; Tom confirming ease of ramp accessibility on LE vs Pro.

  • ?

    product_concern: Rush units experiencing reset/freeze issues tied to time machine mode; symptom suggests potential firmware or hardware state management bug requiring OS image reinstall

    high · Tom: 'screen will freeze, all the lights go off, nothing... if you wait a while, it'll reset itself... I think it has something to do with the time machine, but I'm not 100% positive.' Resolved via fresh SD card image install from Stern website.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Rush wizard modes not yet implemented in current code; Tom reached end of multiball progression without finding final mode

    high · Tom: 'I was kind of trying to work my way through the game until I found out the wizard modes aren't in there.' Joel: 'You're too good, too quick' (ironic acceptance).

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Weird Al licensing represents shift in P3 strategy from homebrew-adjacent system toward licensed commercial releases; validates P3 platform maturity and manufacturer seriousness

    medium · Travis: 'it was always rumored that it was going to be a video game theme... I was so focused on what potential video game type themes... when I initially saw Weird Al, I was like, oh man, like I wanted a video game.'

    • 1:58
    And literally, my wife calls me. It's Monday afternoon. She comes home from work, and she's like, oh.
    2:08
    She took a picture of it, and she basically – she didn't call me. She texted me. She's like, your game's here in the driveway. And I'm like, what?
    2:18
    Like, what do you mean? And she thought I'd be, like, super happy. Well, lo and behold, the game was just sitting in the driveway. Nobody called me, you know. And, I mean, it was nice to have my game, but, you know, Typically, you get a call and they say, hey, we got a game for you. We'll be here at that time, yada, yada, yada.
    2:46
    That didn't happen. I just had a Rush LE just sitting in my driveway waiting. Mind you, it's 10 degrees here in Wisconsin.
    2:57
    Was it raining or snowing? It was actually flurries. There was a little moisture contamination. No, but, you know, there were some holes in the box, which had me a little concerned.
    3:16
    But I ended up bringing it in the garage when I got home from work and unboxing it. There was some slight damage, nothing major to some T-molding. But anyways, got it inside and started playing it, having a good time. and I've been having some reset issues lately, but I'm trying to work that out. What do you mean by reset issues? So literally I'll be playing the game, and all of a sudden the screen will freeze, all the lights go off, and nothing. And then if you wait a while, it'll reset itself, but normally I just turn it off. No rhyme or reason? You haven't been able to pinpoint anything specific? I think it has something to do with the time machine, but I'm not 100% positive. Interesting. So I actually, before this podcast, I took a new SD card and got the image off of Stern's website and installed it on my game. played a game it was fine but i just got to do more more playing and testing okay so delivery was not the the stork finally showed up with your with your new child and it leaves it crying on the driveway it was definitely odd it was definitely an odd situation yeah uh but you got it unboxed it And OK, go. So once you know, I know this isn't a visible media, but here in Zencast, so the software we use, there's a new button that Travis is just in love with. And it's a hand raising button. And so he's over here. Just talk, Travis. I can't get a word in with Tom talking so much.
    5:19
    All right. I spent five minutes without saying a word, Tom. I just want to know, how is your scoops doing? That's my main concern.
    5:27
    Really well. I mean, there is no – the Cliffy protector that's on it is pretty much perfect. Awesome. Yeah. So even with you hitting the shot over and over again? Yeah. Okay, awesome. There you go. So problem solved, right? I think so. I mean, I don't know when Stern's going to start shipping them to all the pro owners. and you know you got it in here you're ellie lead us you know we're not worried about the pro owners yeah well i am travis oh he's for the people for the people my question is though i mean i've had games where i've had wear on them and with all everybody taking them off and then if they're going to reapply them i think there's going to be some issues with that if you have like a ton of wear around your scoop and they're still gonna bend i would think well the fix it looks like it's just the the previous scoop but there's kind of these two metal i don't know prongs teeth it's not a fork but a two teeth that are that kind of come out and kind of hold down the edge of the scoop like it's weird it's not something i've seen on any other scoop ever but I actually had a chance and we're going to talk about it later but I had a chance to actually play a Rush LE yesterday and this was on location and yeah the scoop was fine on location LE aren't you guys fancy up there well we'll talk about it not me I'm taking no ownership of that but no the scoop looked great and I guarantee that has more plays than your machine Tom so it's working are you sure about that? Tom has a rush he has a rush at his house maybe not but okay so Tom a few little things but overall impressions I mean I have a sound bite and I play it probably more often than I should but before you even touched the game you said this was the greatest game ever made what's your true opinion now that you have it in your possession it plays really well the shots are phenomenal I think, I mean, there's, there's not a shot on the game that I don't think is makeable. Did I say that right? Yeah. I mean, that's a word. Yeah. You're good. Okay. But, uh, yeah, I mean, I, for me, it's hard because everybody knows I'm a big Rush fan. So it's like, what do you think of the game? And it's like, yeah, I love it. Cause it's Rush. Well, this is your chance, Tom, your podcast, you tell the audience and the viewers or the listeners what you think about Rush. your time to shine no i don't want to do that i mean but if you did i mean if you wanted to play that game like if you swapped out the music for somebody else like if you're truly looking at it based on shot based on code like if you just replaced it with a different rock band i'm assuming your view of the game would still be very positive like it's not just that it's rush that it's you know appetizing to you yeah i mean you know rules layout i think it's to me a top 10 game but you know that's just me you know i like i say i compare it to x-men just because the the shot layout similar and to me x-men is really clunky and this game does not feel clunky the shots are really makeable and keep the ball alive. I love the, the Vuck coming back to your flipper, you know, although when I've played the pro, I honestly, that, that target shot does not bother me at all. You know, you're a little out of control, but it's not, it's not like Led Zeppelin when you hit the hermit target. Yeah, I have, I'm currently borrowing a pro from Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out. So thank you for Let me do that. And I'm enjoying the pro, but I will say after playing the LE yesterday, the two things that definitely stood out to me were one, that Vuck shot, having the ball safely returned to your flipper is awesome. And the delay, what I mean is like, if you're in a multi-ball and you hit the standup on a pro, that ball is going right back into chaos. Like, and you're trying to focus on that while if you're in a multi-ball on a premium or LE, that ball is going to be safely delivered back to you while the other balls are in play so that buck is is actually really nice but the other thing that stood out to me and i'm i'm gonna credit raymond on it because raymond davidson is he's been on a few of my streams talking to me and i've told him i'm like this time machine shot it's right up the middle but it's harder to hit than i thought it was gonna be and raymond always says he goes i think the pro is a tighter shot than the premium and le he said on the pro you have two round posts on the le the way it's designed you just have those vertical kind of slivers of a rubber stopper and i i mean i'm not bringing out a ruler but i i will tell you after playing the le yesterday i absolutely had more success hitting the ramp on the le than i did on my pro so just having the what the wamp no the ramp okay there we go hitting the ramp on the the le it definitely i mean i think it was an easier shot and um the one thing we were worried about when we saw the video we're like Like, well, what's that ramp going to do when it's down? Like you're just bashing a metal wall. I didn't have any issues with that at all. So my limited experience, I have a lot of experience on the Pro, but playing a premium LE model, I definitely see the added benefit of the premium LE. Not to mention that LE had the expression lighting kit. And, oh, man, those lights just take those music pins over the top. So good. so i've been told this by a few people and i haven't got to experience it myself because i haven't got to play on premium or le yet but i've been told by those that played both the pro and the le that this is one of the largest noticeable differences between those two models that they can remember in recent memory so i mean is that a fair statement i've heard that from multiple people yeah i think that's fair i mean like the stranger things pro compared to the stranger things premium le and my mind is like that is a huge like a night and day different like the print like just overall experience with the project that stands out in my mind but i will tell you watching the video originally i was i was thinking like oh not that big of a difference like you're not missing too much out like i just didn't the initial teaser it wasn't a obvious like like godzilla what about what about rush though you're you're talking about stranger things you got off in the weeds here no i'm talking about rush that in when you said what's the biggest oh he's relating okay sorry joel rogan you keep going brother okay so tom is following me all right you just just drink your tea wake up a little bit you'll get there yeah it's green tea it helps with the voice so no what what i'm saying i think i think the first game that came to mind biggest difference between a pro and a premium or something like stranger things was the first thing that popped in my head. But now that I'm talking, the reality is like Godzilla is another one. Godzilla, the difference between a pro and a premium is very big in my mind. When I originally saw the trailer for Rush, I didn't think there was that much of a difference. But now that I've played the games, I disagree with myself. I absolutely now have experienced the difference and I see the value in that difference. So I would support somebody paying the extra money to get the premium uh at this point the lds are gone so if you're if you're in that you know shopping for rush le i or rush rush premium i would suggest the premium i think feels better so joel did you notice one feature in the game that's not that's kind of underutilized on the premium le version The fork? No, no, no. That's, that's. I mean, I noticed the, the drum, the drum mech, you know, seeing the, the, the, the hand of the clock go around. That's kind of cool. It's easier to see that. The tiolos button?
    13:57
    The action button? Do you know what I'm referring to, Travis? No, I don't. So, okay. Hang on. Let me think. Don't give it away yet. Okay. Joel, what could it be? What could it be? the only so what are the actual mind we need to get into the mind of tom graph right now realistically what are the actual differences you have the fork on the left you have the drum mech that's just a toy you have the ramp that goes up and down tom just to make sure this is on the play field right you're not gonna like yes it's on the play is gonna be like oh the artwork yeah the le uh yeah it's yeah it's a feature of the game you know what not utilized i would probably i would say maybe the led lights on the ramp nope like that's a big difference i thought they were used that's that's actually pretty cool how those are he's saying underutilized underutilized i don't know oh gosh yeah what's ray and timmy messing up on that tom notices what so underutilized uh there's supposed to be a two ball lock from the oh i will tell you the scoop yeah so on the pro all the balls spit out of the front on the premium and le you can have a ball spit out to the right which is really interesting after somebody's played a lot of time on the pro when you see the ball going to scoop i am prepared for that ball to come at me and so to see that ball then go directly out to the right it did surprise me but is it supposed to hold a ball down there i believe so oh i did not yeah then i haven't felt that or experience that yeah okay so it has a stage ball down there and then does the ball go into the rush targets or does it go to the upper flipper when it gets fired it goes straight to the right it's so it's hitting the targets yeah interesting well there's like a window in the play field and i know on the pro like it's just you can kind of just see the ball roll by but right if it's supposed to stage is Is it supposed to hold a ball down there so you can see that there's a ball down there? I believe so. Huh. I don't know.
    16:01
    We're not the LE owner. I don't know. Yeah, they're not done. But, yeah, I mean, the main things that stood out, the cool little mechs. I mean, the cool little visual toys being the drum and then the ramp, I think were visually very cool.
    16:17
    But the Vuck shot is nice. and having the ramp be easier to hit is very nice because that center ramp is crucial because that's how you finish your combos or collect your combos. That's how you start some of the main multiballs in the game. That's how you start your mode.
    16:39
    Yeah, it's important. As a huge Rush fan, it's a great game. Yeah. Yeah, I think it feels like I'm enjoying it. I'm not the huge Rush fan, but I am enjoying playing the game. And so for both of you guys, though, the main thing that has stood out to me in this rule set, and especially after talking to Raymond so much about it, is there is so much freedom and flexibility here to build the potential value of things before you even start them. So it's a constant gamble. It's a drum bonus? drum bonus is absurd but even just like collecting records before you start a mode it's like how far do you want to push it before you even start the thing are you 130 percent are you aware of the drum bonus uh exploit i do not know the exploit but it's gotta get written out like and i don't know either i know travis you were telling me that uh carlos laser los did it Yeah, I know Carlos did it. Eric Stone did it the other day, and I figured it out. I mean, it's basically, I had like one and a half billion on ball one with the drum bonus built up to 300 million or 400 million per shot. Wow. So it's going to get nerfed. But if you have a rush right now, a cool little party trick, and actually this will probably be gone by the time we get this out. So I don't know if it's worth saying. But if you're on old code, just basically hit the pops a lot, build up your drum bonus, put a multiplier on there, make sure you get your drumstick targets and you just keep well in a way you go to the right end lane, go to the left orbit immediately and you'll keep building that up. And that's basically the whole the whole thing. And it's just it's a lot of fun to do. It's interesting. I mean, of course, that can't stay in there because then the whole game becomes that eventually. But, yeah, just echoing what Joel was saying, though, there's a lot of interesting options when you're dealing with the combo system and you're dealing with collecting records. And like Tom referred to earlier, when you deal with collecting records and making your modes worth more, I think that's a really cool nuance to it. Well, Jeff Teolas from Pinball Profile, he's hopped on my stream a few times. Also final round on TPN. Yeah, true, true. Yeah. But that's giving Marty credit, right? I mean, do we want to bring him in? Yes. I mean, he hasn't killed off any one of us yet. You're probably next, Joel. Yeah, I know. Good luck, brother. Whoops. Martin, who do you want to kill, Joel or Travis? Yeah. Joel, 100%. I think he knows that answer.
    19:14
    So, yeah. So Jeff mentioned he's like, don't shoot anything but flashing records. Like, just keep shooting flashing records. And I think he had a mode. He's like, before I even started a mode, I was at, I think he said like 230% or 280%. 180% like he's like, that's the best score I've ever had. And what's crazy to me though, is the fact that when you're building records, it carries ball to ball. So you could just commit and be like, I'm going to spend all of ball one collecting records. And then, you know what? I'm going to spend all ball two continuing to collect records. And then come ball three, I'm going to actually start my mode. Like if you really wanted to risk it, you could do that. That so it's almost like you're really not risking it until you finally start your mode and hope you have a really good mode. And if you have everything set up in a way where Raymond had said that, you know, it's whatever, five hits to the time machine to get your first multiball, like we'll hit the time machine four times and then start your, you know, collect records for days. And then the next time you hit the time machine, you're going to start your mode and a time machine all at the same time. And you could just, you know, put up something crazy. So it'll be from a tournament strategy standpoint, like it could be really interesting to see people and we've kind of talked about this on triple combo like you have different strategies of like well i spend ball one preparing and then ball two i actually initiate this goal like in this game you could spend ball one and two literally just preparing and then ball three hope to just blow it up um which is i don't know to me like it's this is a weird game for me because normally when i'm playing games all i care about is progressing through the game and for whatever reason i just have not had any interest in doing that like i don't even know what happens after i complete like certain i've just only been focusing on score my high score is pathetic i'm not very good at it but it's just like it's that it's it's interesting to me because i know we still love you joel thank you thank you but it's but it's knowing that it's knowing that i'm like this gamble this like man if i can just push this though i could really that could make this so much better. Well, I think too, one of the great things about this game is you have a lot of options close to the start button. So you're not necessarily picking your path or anything like that, but you have a lot of options that you could go with to where you could either try to hit drop targets to get some bonus built up there or something going from there. You could hit the rush targets to try to get, what is it, the Bastille hurry up going, which can be pretty good. You can collect records to make things worthwhile. You could stick with multi-ball. I mean, there's just, there's a lot of options here, or you could just hit combos and get a combo jackpot too. You could build that up as well, or you could build up your drum bonus as of right now, which I'm sure it's going to change a little bit, but yeah, there's just a lot of different options to go with early on. And I find it really, really interesting with how everything was integrated with that. When you see the combo system and everything, I think that's what's catching my eye the most about this. And I do think that this game is going to be in tournaments a lot in the future. I really do. And, and, and, you know, with, with people like Raymond and Timmy behind the, you know, behind the wheel, they're not gonna, they're not gonna allow there to be some blatant exploit in the game like that. The last thing they want is if their, if their game becomes a tournament favorite, they don't want it to be the one, you know, do the one thing kind of situation. But I mean, Tom, this has been in your possession for a while now. Like when you go down there and hit the start button, do you find yourself really just trying to build and build and try to put up that massive score, or are you actually trying to work your way through the game, the actual kind of progression of the game? Well, I was kind of trying to work my way through the game until I found out the wizard modes aren't in there. Oh, okay. Yeah.
    22:55
    You see that, Joel? That's what happens. Then I was like, oh. I don't have that problem. Like, I went through all the time machine multiballs and all the other multiballs, and nothing happened. Yeah. Well, one day. You're too good, too quick. That's what it is. I just want to see more Rush. That's true. Yeah. Well, that's great. Yeah. We have done something well, though. We've set a new record. What's that? The longest Tom Talks ever? Hell yeah. We did it. It took Rush, but we did it. We actually interrupted you plenty. But, Tom, do you want to wrap it up? I mean, this has been your baby, and we're going to be coming back to it for sure. But do you have anything else to say about where you're currently at with Rush? No no I good Perfect Todd Talks He had something to say Todd Talks He had nothing to say Todd Talks Todd Talks I got nothing.
    23:50
    I'm glad that's over with. You could go, yeah. It's time for you to go smoke a cigarette or something. Jeez, yeah.
    24:00
    Well, yeah, I mean, we should. This is triple drain. Now that we got that out of the way, Let's actually, you know, do our normal podcast. Travis, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad that, you know, you can contribute at this point. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. And, I mean, we have these awesome songs, so might as well play it. We're three guys who like to talk and ball. So we came up with a clever name. We're Joe and Travis, Tom and Tom and Ball. And we call ourselves Triple Train. We're Triple.
    24:42
    Triple Train. There we go. So for all those people that have just gotten used to skipping the first, I don't know, minute of our podcast, that's what our intro sounds like.
    24:52
    Normally we play it at the beginning. But, hey, 24, 25 minutes in, why not, right? Yeah, so we have a few other things to discuss, believe it or not. I don't know, Tom, if there is other things going on in pinball right now. I mean, I know Rush has basically been your everything at the moment. But, I mean, there are other things. So what do we want to talk about next? Travis did a really good job of typing. I wish you guys could see this stuff. But the number of misspelled words, it's literally a list. It's a list number. No, no, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. Before we make me sound like podunk Oklahoma, let's address this.
    25:34
    My keyboard is at a weird angle. I've got my mic in front of me, and I'm doing Joel's job by listing out what we need to talk about. Even though Joel listed everything already. Yeah, if you scroll, I had already typed it. It wasn't numbered. Yeah, but it's like all these run-on sentences, and I'm like, I can't do that. I need everything in the perfect alignment. I podcast by bullet points. If you say three words, it's a run-on sentence. Yeah, run on sins for Travis's three words in a row. Wow. No, I podcast by bullet point. That's all we need. So if we look at – this is a list of five items. And just to let the listeners know, they are numbered 1, 2, 3, 3, 4. Whatever. I actually put three twice. Three is just very important. And you spelled podcast with two Ds. You know what?
    26:24
    My finger got stuck on the D, okay? Sticky keyboard. That didn't sound right either, does it? My finger got stuck on the D. All right. Well, thank you, Travis. Once again, thank you for being here. Always a pleasure. I spelled Weird Al correctly. Okay. And then the other thing for the listeners to know is, you know, you have to type your name when you start Zencaster. And I happen to have interviewed Keith Elwin last time I was on this mic. And so Travis's name is not Keith Elwin. That's what he typed in, not Keith Elwin. So that makes me happy. I think that's funny. So good job, Travis. I'm just letting you know because I'm well aware there's been a trade that's been attempted to be made. With Loser Kid? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys have put me up in exchange for potentially Keith Elwin and a lot of cash coming your guys' way as well. Or maybe it's the other way. Maybe it's a lot of cash going with me. I don't know. I think we'd have to pay Keith. Yeah, I think that's what it is. I don't think you can upgrade from Keith. I mean. No. No, you can't. Like I'm aware that this is like a tryout just to replace me. It's okay. I'm fine with it. I don't, what's funny is this whole, this is all self-inflicted. You're the only one who's talked about wanting to leave. But anyways, it's, we're going to move on. So list number. Josh has offered me a spot as the number five potential backup co-host. Okay. The number two. So let's review this list. Number one, Tom, good job. You won one word sentence. You nailed it. Number two on the to-do list, you typed in Weird Al. He spelled it correctly. Two words. He did it. Nice job, Travis. So Weird Al. P3 Multimorphic. So Multimorphic is the company. P3 is their system. They have released or announced a new game, and that is Weird Al, what is it? Museum of... Natural Hilarity. There you go. Exclamation mark as well. So you got to say it really loud. So that is their next game. This is their first licensed game. It was teased prior that this is like a dream theme for a bunch of the people involved.
    28:29
    I don't know. Initial responses or reactions when you guys saw that that was the theme? Should have did Rush.
    28:38
    No, just kidding. I thought it looked pretty cool when I saw the layout and everything. Yeah, 17 songs. something like that yeah that's uh it's pretty good yeah so my initial reaction because this will crack some people up maybe or at least it cracks myself up but joel what did we say right before it was announced i said something like watch it be weird al or just yeah something like that and then it turns out like 30 minutes later it gets announced it's weird al and so for me personally i'm not a huge fan of the theme but i'm just not a big weird al fan either like i listened to him when I was like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. But after that, when I discovered girls, I just stopped listening. And that's no dig at anybody else. That's just what happened with me. That was definitely a dig. That was not a dig because there's plenty of Weird Al fans that are not virgins and that are married and have plenty of kids, Tom. I know several fans just like that. But what I'm getting at is, is I just kind of fell off of the music. Like I enjoy the music at a certain point. And so it's just not a theme that talks to me. But that being said, I recognize that this theme is great for pinball just because I don't like the theme doesn't mean it's not great for pinball. I think it's a tremendous theme for pinball and I'm happy for the people that are very much into it. And obviously looking at the pin, it seems like that they've captured a lot of what Weird Al is all about. Just looking at it now, obviously we haven't seen it played yet, but I'd be curious about that. But no, for the people that love Weird Al, I'm happy for him. And who knows, maybe after playing it, I might get back into some Weird Al music. I don't know. I like the, what was it? The, what was his gangster paradise song? Which one was that? Amish Paradise. Yeah. See, there you go. See, that was a cool song. I remember that. No, they're all, I mean, the guy is, the guy is good at what he does. There's no denying that. Absolutely. Not only is he musically talented, but his lyrics are comical. I mean, for what he does, comedic, you know, whatever, remakes of songs, there's nobody that does it better. I mean, and Weird Al is known by everybody. I mean, everybody's heard Weird Al at some point. So, I mean, for a first license for a smaller company like P3 to go out and grab a license and find one as recognizable as Weird Al, I mean, that's awesome. What I will say is, you know, it was always rumored that it was going to be a video game theme. So I was so focused on what potential video game type themes it was going to be that that's what I was looking forward to. Like I was looking forward to seeing a video game come into pinball and I just wanted to see how that was going to be done. So when I initially saw Weird Al, I was like, oh, man, like I was I wanted a video game and that wasn't a video game. And then the other thing was they had told us Scott Denise was doing the music. So when I heard that, I was the last thing I thought we were going to get was a music pin by an artist. You know, like I just assumed it was going to have a ton of Scott Denise music in it. What I've come to learn is Scott Denise has written every other musical note in the game besides the whatever 16, 17 songs. So all of the background music that plays, transition stuff, you know, I don't know, everything, everything in the game, sound effects, all that stuff. So it's kind of cool that Scott has been given this opportunity to kind of like orchestrate everything in a pinball, you know, the rest of the pinball machine. So I have no doubt. I mean, when we when I saw the reveal, the art looks great. It looks very like fun and colorful. There's a ton of mechs in it. Those look really fun. They've redesigned some of the stuff on the P3. Like the scoops are servo-driven now instead of coil-driven. So the way that they raise up and down looks cooler. They're brighter. The back box has been redesigned. I mean, this is the best that the P3 platform has ever looked. And that's great. I'm glad they're heading in the right direction. I mean, this game looks really good. But, I mean, I'm still at a point. And I'm curious if you guys, but it's still it's not a teaser video of a theme that I'm OK about was it still isn't enough to push me in to make me take the plunge. I mean, it's it's one of those things that we talked about this before, that in order for Multimorphic to start being very, very relevant with their platform, they needed some type of theme that drove the platform. And they finally found the theme. Obviously, like we said, as soon as we heard it announced, we're like, OK, this is actually this is going to sell out. There's no doubt. It just it's a matter of when. Yeah. And so this is the perfect theme for just to drive pinball sales. Now, the question becomes, then it turns to a manufacturing thing. How you know, how quickly can they get this out? I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know their capability. But that being said, I mean, it's a home run theme for them. I'm happy that they were able to secure it and get it made because, I mean, hell, this day and age, we've already seen plenty of pinball companies come and go to where they promise these themes and then they never deliver. So the reality is, is this is a machine. I have to assume it's going to get made. And so, I mean, I feel pretty good about where they're at on things. You know, it's just the only thing that I had at the very beginning, I was so confused on how much it was going to be, what was what. And I could tell that there was a lot of other people confused by that. And I didn't think necessarily that it was going to affect them selling out. I thought, if anything, it would affect them down the line. Because to me, when I look at the multimorphic business, I think of it more or less, you're not necessarily selling themes. You're selling a platform because you want people to adopt this platform that's modular in nature. And therefore, you want to sell all kinds of other modules for it. And so to me, that would be the most important part of this whole process. And I'm very curious to find out, and I don't know if we'll ever find this out, with how many people that bought into the Weird Al, you know, or bought into this platform with Weird Al, how many of those are first time P3 adopters? Like how many of them, how many people got convinced, okay, I need to take the leap and get the whole entire platform and go from there? And that'll be the major driver to me moving forward. They've never announced how many P3 games, actual core units, are out there. They've never announced that. I doubt they ever will. I did see a post that Jerry said that said they've sold more than every projected number that anybody's thrown out. So anything they've – I mean, which – I don't know. So if somebody guessed they've made 200, Jerry's saying they've made more than that. But, I mean, Tom, you buy a lot of games. Are you in a position where P3 is, you know, potentially getting your money? I'd say there's potential, but, you know, kind of like Travis, the Weird Al theme is it didn't push me to go into getting one. Yeah. So I think the theme is great that they're going that route. But, you know, it just it's not like Rush calling me, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing, too, I think that will push at least people in Tom and I's position. I think that will help us kind of go more towards the platform is as long as they have people like Bowen and Colin the Cop doing the rules or rules advising, because to me, that's an important part of it. It's a game needs to shoot well, but it also needs to be fun from a software standpoint that you actually have things to shoot at. That's making you think about why are you shooting at this and what is this worth and what does this mode do? And to me, that's really important. I think that's a huge step in the right direction. Having those two on this game. I mean, I think that that's going to pay massive dividends on the back end of this whole thing. Yeah, I totally agree. And I have been watching the pin side thread because when sales were happening, one of the first like, well, for one, they took sales via email. So, so many people just set up an automatic email to be sent out at nine o'clock on the dot. And what's absurd is how many orders, because people were tracking that of like when they check their outbox, like when did the email actually go out and then what order number they got. And it looks like the first order number came in at like right around 1300. So I don't know if that means in the history of Multimorphic, there's been 1300 orders placed over the last, I don't know. But it was right around 1300 was where it started. And I think they ended up over 2000. So I think there was like roughly 700 plus orders that happened in a day. But what's crazy is there were people that were like, my email went out at 9.04 and I was, they were like, like, I don't know, three or 400 orders deep, you know? And they were, that's just a few minutes after nine. So they were just like hundreds of orders, literally hundreds of emails just plopped into their inbox at nine o'clock on the dot. And and what's even weirder now is because people know that they know their order number, they're now getting projected build dates. And it seems like it's kind of a wave thing. So I saw there were a handful of people that were like I was at nine o'clock and their projected build date is like September or October of this year. They're like, I was right at, I could not have sent the email earlier and I'm, I'm September or October of this year. And then there's some people that are like, I'm January of next year. And I was at 902. I'm March of next year. And I was 904, um, which is crazy. That's crazy. That, that, that few minute gap is putting you, you know, that far back. But I did read one post. One person said they, I forget what order number they said. I think it was like 1303 or something that they said they're in the first half of this year. So I don't know how that's because we kind of talked about this. It looked like Jerry had kind of made a comment. This is the owner of Multimorphic that like teasing the theme was all about gauging interest. So I don't know how many parts they've ordered. I have no like I don't know. I don't know how prepared they are to manufacture these games. But if somebody's received a projected date of the first half of this year, that means they're getting – it's either a full-built game or maybe they were just a module, but they're supposed to be getting that within the next three months. I mean – So do they say how many games they're going to produce like a week? No. I mean, they said the LEs, the LEs were 227 have sold out. But we have no idea if that's out of 227. We have no idea if that's 150 modules and 77, like not module. Yeah. A hundred modules and 77, like full units. We don't know. So obviously we would think the module is going to take way less time than a full unit plus a module. But Jerry's also said that they're, it's not like they're saying, Hey, we're going to do all the modules first and then start doing the units or the opposite. We're going to do all the units first to get the new people in and then the modules. And then what's also interesting is I know people that have placed orders for units before, like they were in on a P3 with heist. And then they basically said, hey, we don't want heist. Let's wait for the new unit. So it's like people have already been waiting months. And now, like, where are they in line? Because technically the order was placed before nine o'clock. I don't know. Well, not only that, where in line is the people that ordered through a distributor? Because it was on their Facebook that they announced they were sold out. And then three hours later, they announced, well, you can also get these LEs that are supposedly sold out at these distributors. So I'm kind of curious to see, like, how many people missed out on an LE, but then they could have just contacted just these four or five distributors, whoever it was, and get on an LE. Like, I don't know. That part was kind of confusing to me. So I don't know. I don't know if that's that big a deal. It's just it's interesting to see how this is going to play out, because we truly don't out of anybody in the pinball industry right now. We know more about deep roots manufacturing capabilities. So, you know, there's just there's no telling like I had no idea how this is going to play out. I don't I mean, I hope that they can get everything out in a timely fashion. I mean, this day and age, obviously, everybody listening to this podcast is well aware it's very difficult to get a new inbox machine in a timely manner right now for obvious reasons. And that is becoming even more difficult right now. And so I'm curious to see how that's going to play out over this next year. I mean, there are people that are getting into this hobby right now that they just want a game. They just want a game. Just give me whatever's available. and I guarantee people are calling distributors up and being like, do you have anything? And unfortunately, it doesn't sound like P3 is gonna be a quick or easy way to get into the industry at this point. I mean, P3 is basically, they're gonna be busy for the next year and a half easy focusing on this, just this. And I think it would be interesting is like, if you are a P3 owner and you decide, hey, I wanna buy Heist, You know, like, are they going to squeeze in the other modules at some point? Or if you happen to place an order that you're like, all right, I'm taking the plunge. I want the core system. I want Weird Al. I want Heist. And I want, you know, Cannon Lagoon. Are you going to get them all at once? Or are they going to be like, nah, you can wait. Or maybe they're pulling a Cannon Lagoon off the shelf, you know, and just, here, we'll send that to you now. But it's going to be eight months before you actually get your core unit to play it. I don't know. But I'll be waiting to see. I mean, everybody that's ordered something from P3 prior has gotten it. So this isn't like a highway pinball or something where people are, let's hope that they actually show up kind of thing. Well, the question is, too, is how is this going to play? Because we have yet to see any gameplay, but it's coming up, what, this Saturday via Buffalo Pinball, I believe? Or is it two Saturdays from now? It was in the teens. Is it at TPF? No. Well, yes. No, it will be. The game will be at TPF, but there's a stream that's going to have it before. Yeah, the stream reveal won't be at TPF. I think Buffalo Pinball, somebody from there is flying down to the multi. Okay, yeah. Which is, I think it's crazy because, like, every spooky reveal, Jack Danger's done the stream. Every stern reveal, Jack Danger's done the stream. the last whatever four jjp reveals kevin and nick when you know buffalo pinball has done the reveal and then kevin did the reveal of the last few p3 games so it's like it's we're in a i mean fliptronic did do the reveal the one stream of raza but it's basically like you have two entities doing all pinball reveal streams for all manufacturers i have the i have the breaking news oh let's see it let's do do do do do do so so so god damn it uh so so kevin main said uh it's happening yes yeah i'm headed hey i'm headed to texas next week to bring you the first gameplay stream of word l museum of natural hilarity live from the multimorphic headquarters march 19th 8 eastern 7 central on buffalo pinball only on twitch there we go there you go breaking news if it's if you're listening to this otherwise it's been on facebook for like days so sorry sorry no but so the 19th i mean i i will i'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to the stream. I mean, everything we've heard so far, I know Becca and Jordan have played it. They, with Fliptronic, they were in the promo video. I know the Flippin' and Mashin' guys, Parnell and Ryan, I think is their name. They've played, I mean, everybody's just been gushing over how well it shoots and the feeling of the shots and all that. So it'll be great. It'll be great to actually, I want to see it. I want to see it. I want to see how the modes work out um i think what's great is raymond davidson number one pinball player in the world is also like number one weird al fan in the world so he uh like even he is his interest is is peaked you know and um but i i don't think he has the patience to wait a year for a game he's gonna he could buy and completely destroy and beat like five or six games in that same time period so probably win it at some pinball tournament yeah random side note and it's and it's because you're talking about buffalo pinball nick nick lane who's one of the other guys at buffalo pinball he his his favorite game of all time is uh pirates and i know and i know both him and kevin bought pirates i mean when they were announced they were they were talking up how great great the game is You're talking about the Stern or the JGP one? No, JGP. Nick has said Pirates is his favorite game of all time. He loves it. And Nick is a very heavy tournament player.
    46:39
    I saw on Facebook he put it up for sale. And what was hilarious was the reason behind it, the reasoning behind it. He's like, why am I doing this? And he goes, this is my favorite game, but why am I doing this? Because I don't play it. It's like a museum piece. It's almost like a flex that he has it. but it's worth like $25,000 right now. And he goes, I would rather sell that to buy in the games. He wants to buy our rush premium and Godzilla premium. And he said, I said something like, Hey, I know. And he goes, I've, I've become a stern simp recently.
    47:15
    And I mean credit to Nick and his just blunt um honesty but he goes they are crushing He just said Stern is crushing it with code and he just can miss that And I agree with him. I mean, Godzilla and Rush, this code is just absurd. Travis is thinking hard. Well, no, I got to ask Tom. Tom, how's your Pirates LE doing?
    47:40
    Which one? Your JJP Pirates. That's long gone. Yeah. You sold it? Yes. A couple of years ago? Yeah. Not for $22,000 or $25,000 either. It's okay. We're going to go find it, Tom, and we're going to get it back for you. Yeah. I'm good. I can't buy a game for that price. To wrap up that thought, though, is Nick actually then later posted and he said, I played this game tonight and I've decided to keep it for now. Oh, really? He's decided to keep it? Yeah. So, I mean, I get that.
    48:15
    Everybody's had that game where they play it a bunch and they're like, I hate this game. It's going. Or like, I don't love it. You know, I don't love it. And then you just turn it back on and you blow it up or something and then you fall back in love with it. Like, I know the feeling. But, I mean, I feel for Nick in that struggle. This game's worth, because he probably bought that for what? I mean, eight grand? I mean, how much were those when they came out? It was less than ten. They were 95. Yeah, 95. 95? And so for it to be 20, I mean, I don't blame him. And if that's his logic for me, I could sell this and end up with a rush. Like Nick Lane loves Led Zeppelin. He loves Led Zeppelin and the Led Zeppelin code. And Tom, I mean, both of you guys, do you agree? Do you feel that Rush has taken all the great things that Led Zeppelin has and like improved it almost code wise? They're very different games, I think, but personally. I think what helps, if we're going to get into comparing Rush to Led Zeppelin, what helps with Rush is, one, they have a lot more assets available. Yes. And two, the design is just quite simply superior. And, you know, that could be for a variety of reasons, but just, I mean, some people might think Led Zeppelin design is superior, and that's fair in Joel's words. But that being said, Rush just has the total package when it comes to comparing those two things. But kind of coming back around, though, to Pirates, this will crack you guys up. So we were in on a Pirates LE back in the day because Monica is just a fanatic over the Pirates stuff. So we have like a signed Johnny Depp picture of him as Jack Sparrow. We have the Stern Pirates, which is her baby. We'll never let it go. And we went to go play it. and at TPF when it was down there, the JJP version, and this was a few years ago, and she just loved it. She's like, I got to have it. I'm like, okay, you know, happy wife and pinball. Let's get it. Let's do this. Yeah, yeah. And then as soon as they announced that the disc would no longer have the three spinning discs, it would just go to one, she was like, okay, I'm out. She was so mad about that that she was out. And now I look back on it, and it was like a $12,000 angry decision. And I'm like, shit, that could have been a lot of money.
    50:37
    Have you pointed that out to her? I bet she'd love to hear about the mistakes that she's made. She's probably listening to this right now on the podcast. And, sweetie, I apologize so much. Please do not make me go to the couch or go back to Tom's house again. Well, the reality is, being that you have brought up Monica, Monica I've heard is – I think she's actually proven that she's a better pinball player than you. last term the two of you played in she far outperformed you no no the last tournament we played in okay yeah she actually finished ahead of me at the last term we played in too oh yeah she's done that two out of three times now i think we're officially you know neil's dad and monica's husband i mean i think that's just where we're at i'll dare you monica's gonna listen to this with her one headphone because you lost all of her other headphones and she's gonna listen to it and be shaking her head going yep yep You know, she's so she's finally put it together. I'll give her that. She's finally put it together. It took a few years and a few beers, a lot of wine. And she finally she finally figured it out. Now, I've told her this whole time because she's always been a little bit intimidated with tournament pinball. And it's not because men or anything like that. Like she's never had any issues really about that at all. It's just more about that. She's like, I don't feel like I can compete with the Kerry wings or the assassin up in Wisconsin. Like, there's just no way. So it's kind of like one of those things. She's almost like a female version of Zach many without all the singing and hot tub talk and all that. You know, it's kind of like that to where she just, she doesn't, if she's not going to take first, you have a chance at first. She's like, why, why do it? Right. She'll, and she'll do it sometimes. But now she's gotten to where, because I've told her, I'm like, okay, you're an engineer. So you can basically remember everything. You played college softball. So you've got hand-eye coordination. Just put those two things together. And it's just been one of those things. It's funny. She doesn't ask me for any advice. She doesn't ask for rule sets or anything. She just flips every day and she's just been playing. And it's finally just kind of coming together. And the most hilarious part about this, she came up to me and she's like, you know what? I see why you like this pinball thing. If you play halfway decent, it's actually a lot of fun. But then about two hours later, she was complaining because she was in Josh Sharpe's group and Jason Weirdrick. And she's just like, I don't understand this because I'm just sitting here for 30 minutes not playing at all. And they're just playing forever. I'm like, yep, that's what happens when you play world-class players. This is competition. Yeah. Yep. Was it Adam's family? It was Adam's family. Yep. It was during that time. Josh was going hard in the paint on Adam's family. I think you put up like 400 million or just something ridiculous. But no, that being said, for everybody out there listening, if you have a spouse that's kind of on the fence with tournament pinball, just assure them it's fun. It's cool. It's just I mean, you don't have to just always take first and everything to have fun when it comes to tournament pinball. I mean, if you're on the fence and you're thinking about playing, just go play. Talk to people. Have a beer if you're into that. Hang out and a lot of good can happen. You can meet a lot of great people. I didn't even know my wife was checking out my new in box games. I didn't even know she was playing them. You did post, you did post a picture that your wife actually wanted to come down and play a rush game, which she did at that moment when you heard, Hey, Hey Tommy, can we go downstairs and play pinball? You probably just crumbled, right? She just, I was in the basement. She came down and she's like, I'm going to check out rush. And I'm like, what? No, Tom probably, Tom probably hissed at her. He's like, what are you doing down here?
    54:18
    Stay away from my toys. Well, Tom, I don't know when it was that you accepted that Neil is better than you. I think you know that. I think you've accepted that. It's true. It will be here when Travis finally realizes that Monica is superior. And that's fine. We'll wait for that. We've all known it. So it's fine. All right. I'm going to give a small flex here. When she gets on the front page, when Monica gets on the front page of IFBA, then she can come talk to me. Got it. Now, when Monica gets on the front page, I think, Tom, we found our third host.
    54:55
    Joel, we're both on the front page. I know. You've been there. I mean, this is your first time. Joel, Tom is officially a better pinball player than Eric Stone. Whoa.
    55:09
    That is not true either. I don't care what the ranking system says. I know. he's a monster of a player that's awesome guys i'm i i'm proud of you guys and once again it's very uh if it's not blatantly apparent like i'm not i do not fit in with this group i'm the odd one out but that is we like we like competitive pinball joel yes you do are you joel are you saying you're like the big bird next to darth vader in that meme sure yeah i'll take that yeah But when are you going to play a tournament, though? We tried to get you to sign up for the TPF Classic. I know. The reality is maybe next Expo I'll sign up because I like that idea of everybody makes the playoffs. It's just at what point you get in. I think we need to make Joel sign up for something at District 82. Right? Yeah. Yeah, finding time to get up there. The bigger thing is I have no interest in just paying money to go play eight games and realize all my scores suck and I don't even – that's it. You sound like my wife did. You play more games than that. You sound like Monica did, yeah. I would like to do the head-to-head, though, like to actually go against and see what I need to hit, like see what I need to play. That sounds fun. So we will – it will happen. It will happen. So let me get this straight. The only time, Joel, that you'll play in a tournament is when everybody makes the playoffs. Well, no. I just want to get – like go ahead and put me in a four-person game where we're actually all playing the game at the same time. But the idea of just playing games to get a score and enter it in and then see whether or not you get enough points to like make something. I don't I just that doesn't sound nearly as appetizing as like actually alternating who's playing at the same time and seeing them do something and then seeing if I can repeat it. But you realize that Expo, you will have to do that before. Yeah, but everybody gets in. So it's like I even if I'm at the bottom, I'll still get to experience the actual playing against other people. OK, that's the guarantee. I got you. Until then, I'll keep doing my single home tournaments and losing. How's that winning? Yeah, I was about to say, how many home tournaments have you won? Zero. It's amazing. Yeah, it's really sad. But I don't know. Let's look at the list here. Number three, it's on here twice.
    57:28
    So yesterday was my birthday. There's no good transition into this, but yesterday was my birthday. Happy birthday, Joel. Thank you. I appreciate that. And my wife gave me free reign. So she's like, you can do whatever you want. I said, great. There's up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. There's this place called Wizard World. It's Fort Wayne Pinball.
    57:46
    And they have over 150 games. I mean, they have a ton of games under one roof. I know they're all kept up in really good shape. So I told her, I said, I want to go play pinball. And I'm going to meet my brother there and the best man at my wedding. My good friend Will's going to go, and I'm going to take my brother-in-law. She's like, so you don't want to spend the day with your wife and children? I said, no, I don't.
    58:07
    I did that all day Saturday. It was a great time, but it was awesome. She gave me the day to go do that. And I went up there, and that's where I had the chance to play the Rush LE. I got to give the owner of the place, his name's Mike. It's ridiculous. I mean, he buys LEs. He'll buy the Pro, put it on location because he gets it first, and then as soon as his LE shows up, he puts the LE on location and then sells the Pro. So, I mean, he is on top of it. They do tournaments. It's an awesome, awesome facility.
    58:39
    But there are a few takeaways from that. There are a few takeaways from that. So one was the Rush LE. I mean, I played that, had a great time. Kind of told you my thoughts on that. Did you play any other pens? I did. We'll go positive first. Godzilla LE. Played Godzilla LE. I know I had actually played one at Expo. Zach had had his there, and that's where I really got to experience the toys and the mechs and everything about Godzilla. And I had the Pro here at the house. I was borrowing that. And then it was replaced with Rush. And I will tell you, just stepping up to Godzilla again and playing it, like, I miss it. I miss that game. The way it shoots, it's just overall a fun game. And that was a really fun game to get my brother or my brother-in-law to step up to. And I just told him, like, just hit the building and watch what happens. And giving them simple tasks like that to actually see a really cool mech. They enjoyed it. They enjoyed it a lot. So once again, I know all three of us have kind of gushed on how good Godzilla is, but it really is that good. Oh, don't worry. We'll talk about some more after we get to number four. Perfect. There we go. So there's the positive. So the negative, and this is not a new thing for this podcast, but Halloween. I played Halloween, and just the disclaimer once again. I own a TNA. I like spooky pinball. I think they I've I've enjoyed them. I like I have nothing against the company, but we have had our doubts on Halloween since it was announced. You know, when you look at the layout, there was just a lot of questions. And then Travis spent so much time on that game before a lot of other people. Six hours. So much time on that game before a lot of the code was fleshed out. And and you just kind of pointed out a lot of things. you're just like mechanically i'm seeing this issue i'm just there was a lot of concerns and there was a lot of bold statements that came out of that um being you know something along the lines of like worst pinball experience i've had since i don't know uh wood rail days or something it was something birds thunderbirds yeah so it was one of those like cosmos was horrible yeah tom graff and my friendship nearly ended yeah that's getting off okay joel go ahead this is Yes. So Halloween. So I stepped up to Halloween with my brother-in-law and my brother-in-law is he likes pinball. He's not bad at pinball, but just not like a crazy good player or something like that.
    61:11
    We stepped up to that and I will say the game was built like we had just played a taxi before. And when you play like an older play field and you see the ball kind of moving based on inserts and stuff and wearing stuff to step up to a brand like that game, that playful play field was as smooth as glass. Like it's one of those, like this is printed. Well, that's great. Uh, he also thought it was really cool seeing the knife at the top, like the knife topper, like the stabbing. That was pretty cool, but that's it. Like that's where the positive comments kind of stop. And, and what I mean is we just, the shots, I, we had no idea what to do and there was a mode. We got into one mode and what we finally figured out is to get through that mode we had to hit a drop target on the second play field and it was saying hit the scoop but it wasn't the scoop the main pumpkin scoop it was it was like a scoop on the second play field and nothing was really indicating that until we finally saw the light flashing but then there's nothing that really indicates how you get to that secondary play field like i know how to do it and i had to say like no there's kind of a shot here to the left of the scoop like that's kind of where you want to go and then it goes up really fast and it's just it was just certain things like that like the shot layout and communicating what you want to do to the player and then the center ramp the number of rejects we had on that we never once got to the upper play field the third play field because of the center ramp you have to hit it so many times then there's a diverter that turns and it was just one of those things of we only played one or two like we played a two-player game but we just walked away i mean after it was over we're just like it was just such an unpleasant experience and and i hate being negative and i hate being that guy sounds like you really enjoyed it joel yeah this is like the first time i've ever heard joel not like something it was amazing but it's just like all pinball's fun right like everybody says that all pinball's fun but the elevators, like, even though I knew they were coming, you just instinctually, if I shoot a ball in the scoop, I'm expecting the ball to come out of the scoop. It doesn't, it's like you, you have to train yourself that. And I remember warning my brother, I was like, Hey, just a heads up. If you ever play this game, the ball doesn't come out of the scoop. It comes out of the elevator. And like 10 minutes later, he comes by, he's like, yep, definitely got like, got tricked on those elevators. And they just, you know, just rolls right down the middle. And, And it's just stuff like that. Like some of these decisions, I don't know. I just, I felt bad disliking it as much as I did, but I walked away almost more of this, like I understand now, like I understand why people dislike this as much as they do. And I mean, the art package was great. It visually looks like a great game, but I will just say my overall play experience was just not enjoyable. and and i don't want to be that guy that the media guy that's just crapping on a game but well it's a fair statement to me i think overall tom that was pretty funny yeah i love tom i love tom i gotta gather my thought again but no so i mean what you're saying is fair and i think the reason why it's fair is because i mean i enjoyed rick and morty i enjoyed tna i enjoyed alice cooper Like those three games I had fun with. And I think it's important that we have to be honest about our experiences on these games to where if you sugarcoat it at all, who's going to learn? You know, because we're the consumers, we're the people pumping quarters in or other people that are buying the game. It's good to have some type of feedback. So now, you know, like, hey, let's not put as many scoops on or hey, let's not try to do all these upper play fields or hey, let's let's figure out a different type of shot. because there's I mean, there's some elements in there that could be positive. Like I hate the name, but the pretzel shot. I mean, that's a fun shot when it executes properly. That is a fun shot. But outside of that, yeah, it's a little bit lacking, so to say. So, I mean, I think that this whole thing, it's it's definitely I'm sure that there's a lot of people that still haven't got their game yet. They're either trying to sell it or they're just kind of waiting. I mean, I would say if you're in on one and you've decided to stick in, just go into it knowing that whatever expectations you have, just take it for what it is, play it, and just try to figure out something that you like about it. If you don't, then I don't know. I don't know what to say after that. But hopefully, I think Spooky's going to learn from this experience, though. I don't think that we'll see a layout like that for the next game or at least whatever game that they have coming out next. And I'm hoping, too, when it comes to rules and everything, that they go back to finding somebody like Bowen or somebody that fully understands just getting things to where it gives you incentive to go after everything. Because it just still feels like everything's really disjointed the last time I played it, which was a couple of months ago. So I don't know. Maybe the code is just way different than what it is now. but I mean, we had to play it in a, um, in a tournament locally. And it just, I mean, all I did to be honest with you is I just kept hitting the center ramp the whole time. And that's, that's it. Uh,
    66:39
    yeah, of course, Tom. Yeah. Well, my center, my center ran. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, my center ramp didn't reject as much either. It finally started going through. So it was only rejecting like maybe twice out of every four shots. That would be 50% if you want to. Yeah. That would. Yeah. So it's only half the time. No, it was just, I mean, we were stuck in a mode, which I'm pretty sure that mode won't let you go to the, the butt pretzel because my, it was, yeah, he was just actually hitting, like you would hit the center ramp. It would divert to the left. It would feed the left flipper. And then he just hit the center ramp again. And he just kept doing it over and over and over waiting for it to go right. It never went. So did it, did it have the combo built into that still? Did you notice that or not? No, I don't know. But it was, I mean, we were looking. It's just what I found. I mean, I went to play pinball with three people that like pinball, but they're not to the level of, like, they don't really care about rules and code and depth. Like, they just want to have a fun experience on a game. And that's what I found walking up to whatever game I found. They just want me to tell them something, like, cool to experience. So, like, if we walk up to Simpson's Pinball Party, I'm saying, hit the garage. You're going to hit it up there. It's going to end up on the secondary play field. And when you're up there, you can hit behind the TV. And then if you go up there, you can hit the couch. Like a simple path, something simple to do. What did you tell them on Halloween? That's the thing. I was like, you step up to Halloween and what do you want to experience? You want to get to the upper play field. You hit the scoop and you make mini Mike just pop out of the hedge. But that's the thing that it's like, here we are. We're trying to do the thing that you're like, we want to get up to that upper play field. and nothing is communicating it or allowing us to do that in an easy way. And that's what I'm realizing is how important it is to communicate things, especially the fun things on a game. And to change from Halloween, another game that really let me down was Guns N' Roses. Like, JJP's Guns N' Roses. I, once again, like, the four of us, I've put some time on it, but that's almost the opposite where it's like there's so much going on that there's nothing that's being communicated to us because everything's being communicated to us. And this is sad to say, but we played a two-player game and neither of us ever got into a song. And I remember they said, like, you have to collect the seven band members. And if you get to ball three and you still don't have them, we're going to give you some band members. And I know, like, the friend I was playing with, all he had to do was hit the scoop and he couldn't. Like, he couldn't hit the scoop, never experienced a song. And he's just like, you know, the lighting was kind of dim. So those those lights going off, it's just so much in your face that I don't know. I just know it was an eye opening experience for kind of novice or like people intro in the hobby that when they step up to a pinball machine, they don't care about building up, you know, combos and stuff to just blow up a game. All they want, they're just visually looking at a game, trying to see something physically entertaining on that game that they want to see some, you know, like my brother loved big game or not big game. Big guns. He put nine dollars into big guns when we were there. And the reason he did it is because it was so it said load the cannons. So that's all he wanted to do was experience that he wanted to load the cannons and he knew he had to load two cannons and hit up the middle. And that's that was enough. It was communicate. I didn't communicate that to him. The game, it was clear as day. That's what he wanted to do. And it was enough of a push to put nine dollars into the game until he did it. Well, what you're really describing, too, is why games like Attack from Mars or Medieval Madness are so popular, because it's so obvious what you're supposed to do on that. Yeah. And it's entertaining when you do it. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's a key element to the game, because I guess in any pinball game that you have, you always want some type of prompt for the player when you're dealing with what the lights are doing, what the call outs are doing, what the code is wanting you to do. because it's basically within somebody that's creating a rule set, you're also crafting a narrative that you're trying to hold the hand of the player and take them on that mini journey that says, okay, you need to hit this particular shot to activate this mode, or you need to start your multiball this way and this is where all the jackpots are at So yeah it something like that i think it was a lot easier for games in the past to be crystal clear on that yeah and now that we getting more and more modern with everything it's almost like if you get something like guns and roses it's not clear as day what to do and it's not necessarily the easiest rule set to understand either because you have the full patch system that basically changes the way that the game will play out, basically. It's almost like a choose-your-own-adventure just by spamming the left ramp a whole lot. So it's just, you know, it's just one of those situations to where, I guess I could see that, and you just saw it firsthand, Joel, that when you have people that are new into pinball or just really starting to get into it, it's like you need that one particular thing to show them to do. And that's why exactly the game behind you, TNA, from Spooky, that's why it's so damn popular because everybody knows what to do. You lock the balls with the inline targets or the Denise drops. And it's very obvious what to do. And it's exciting to do it. It's exciting. We played three, four player co-op games when we were there on TNA. Like I own TNA. We could do that. But the fact that the four of us were all together in one spot, we're like, we got to do it. We got, and we had a blast. We had a blast on it. So that's why I think what's funny is my takeaway. When we left, what games did people have the most fun on? Like in review, my brother-in-law medieval madness he freaking loves medieval madness like and it's because it's very clear what he wants to do and he just likes it like between the trolls and the castle he likes it uh everybody else tna everybody had a lot of fun on deadpool le they enjoyed deadpool a lot uh godzilla had a lot of fun my brother apparently freaking loves big game or big guns big there was a big game right next you really want big game to be there was a big game right next to it and i kept thinking about chuck worth the entire time because i know he loves big game but like those were the standout games for for for the three hours that would that we were there um out of so do you think do you think like a game like guns and roses do you think it's just too complicated for the average person i i personally do and the reason i say that is i owned a hobbit i owned a hobbit for over a year and i know the first time i played a hobbit i did not like it and it the only reason i got a hobbit is because of watching kevin manning on Buffalo pinball, blow it up and listening to the ways he explained the rules. And I was like, there's so much depth here and so many different things to do. Like I want to experience this in a home environment. And I, once I fully grasped the Hobbit, I loved it. I loved that game for over a year, but I know when I had friends and family come over and play Hobbit, no one really ever got into it because it was so overwhelming. It was so overwhelming to them. No matter how I explained it nobody really got into it and um nobody cared like when it was gone nobody missed it nobody but i did so i get why jjp has the the the fanboys that it has because the people that commit to really learning their games their games are incredible um but i just don't like for the average joe unless all they want to see is pretty lights and just kind of cool little things like i It's almost too much, in my opinion. I agree with you. That's usually the way JGP games are, though, because Pirates was the same way. And I think Wonka kind of got there a little bit, but Wonka's rule set is a little bit more fleshed out, and it makes a little bit more sense from, I guess, an approachability standpoint, to where when I played Wonka at Tom's house, Tom was able to tell me exactly what to do in 30 seconds, and it made complete sense. Now, I had somebody in the past, I won't give away names, but they tried to explain to me how to play Pirates with it right in front of me. And it was like me being hit over the head with an encyclopedia. And I usually pick up on rule sets awfully quickly. And I just, you know, my mind was just blown by what it was. But that being said, those types of games, though, I think for people that are rules junkies, it's a fun experience if you have it at home and you're trying to figure out all the paths to take. So there is value in that that I appreciate. I know when I had a GNR, I brought one here just to try it out because I played the LE on location and I just didn't really like it too much. But I had an opportunity to get a standard and I wasn't going to lose any money. It's basically just like a glorified rental. So I got to play it for a while. And, yeah, I had general fun on it. But I could tell also, too, it got to be very wood choppy after a while because it was a very specific way to go blow up the game for more than 200 million points or however much you want to do. There's a very specific patch system to go through. And so, I mean, it's and I don't know if that's more me or the code or what it is, because, of course, you can play a game any way you want to play it. But at the same time, I feel like if I'm putting in the same amount of work, I kind of want to see that number be a big number at the end of the day, then see it be small. So in that so I had I actually own TNA and I only owned it for a few weeks. That was the only game I owned. And this is when nobody really liked Hobbit. And so I actually traded my TNA plus, I think, a little money for Hobbit. And what I realized quickly was I went from having a game that I was literally inviting anybody that came over to come down and play with me, being TNA, and had the most fun playing that game with other people than any other pinball machine because it was a game that everybody could play. I went from having that like an incredibly versatile multiplayer game to a game that nobody cared about. And I loved Hobbit. I loved it for over a year, like really dove into that game. But it was a sacrifice. It went from like this multiple people experience to a single player game. And if anybody ever played there, I would never play it with them. I would like stand there and coach them because I'm not going to play a ball for 20 minutes and have somebody play it for 30 seconds. Like it just that's not an enjoyable thing. so that was really eyeopening to me and I ended up getting TNA back. And that's kind of where I'm at with JJP games is I just, if you're used to playing games by yourself and that's, you want to just do that, then I JJP, there's some, it's incredible. Like what's built into that game. That's great. I just don't, I just struggle to bring a novice player into the hobby on a JJP machine. I just think it's too much. But Tom, I mean, you have a ridiculous collection. You've had a large collection for a lot of years too. I mean, You've had a lot of friends and family over. What type of – in your collection, what games do you see or do you have any specific titles that pop into your head? I don't let them play the damn games.
    77:41
    You hiss at them like you were saying earlier? Yeah. Do you have any titles that pop into your head of like this is what casual players typically step up to or actually play more than once? Not necessarily. It's more based on theme. Like when my niece and sister-in-law were over and I had a Wizard of Oz, they kind of gravitated towards that because they liked the theme. So I find non-pinball people tend to just gravitate towards the theme. Huh.
    78:13
    Okay. Because, yeah, I mean I've heard people that when they have parties like Stranger Things is the number one played game because all they want to do is bop that guy in the mouth. Well, that also has two things going for it. It has the theme, and it has the obvious objective straight in front of you. Right. I mean, that's a big draw right there, and that's why I got a Stranger Things on location. It just absolutely destroys. Just crushes, yeah. Oh, yeah, just for that reason. Yeah. Well, I don't know. It was just kind of an eye-opening thing. I would say if anybody's within driving distance of Wizard World, you just search Fort Wayne Pinball up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Absolutely go. Everything was incredibly well-maintained. a ton of great games. And it was just really a unique experience of playing all these different games with, you know, my brother and my brother-in-law and my friend and their skill levels and just seeing what games attract they're attracted to compared to the games that I'm attracted to. And I don't know, I learned a lot and trying to find the games that we, that we all like for various reasons was a challenge, which kind of leads me to point four. Did you have fun at least? Oh, I had a great time. You had a good birthday. oh it was a great time okay halloween didn't get you down too much no it was more like i was i didn't want to be the guy i didn't want to just like join in on like oh let's crap on halloween haha when i had never touched one but now i touched one it was like dang i was they're right like i don't i felt bad but it's like is travis being dramatic no travis is being accurate um so i i try to i try to tell my truth yeah and maybe if it was in a home use environment like a home environment where I could really listen to the game better or really focus. I mean, if you're a diehard Halloween fan and you're dead set on having it, could you find that game fun? I bet. I mean, once you learn the shots and learn what you need to do, I bet you could absolutely have a great time on that game, but it just... There's so many other games that just blow me away the first few times you play it, and that isn't one of them. Oh, Tom's raising his hand, Travis. Oh, he is?
    80:18
    This would be a good time. Send your hate mail to TripleDrain at gmail.com. Oh, boy. Attention, Joel. Well, the reality is too is that every individual is going to enjoy or dislike a game just based off their experience. So regardless what you hear from here, try it yourself. Flip it and find out. You might find you really, really like it. You never know. I have always spoken. And I've always been a fan of turtles. And I know there are plenty of people that listen to this game and they do not like turtles. Now, Travis is just clicking the button just because he wants attention. Travis, do you actually have something to say? I like turtles. Oh, God. Okay. All right. So going on to point four out of a five-point list, and this is the last point. So once again, Travis cannot count or type.
    81:06
    I had an opportunity to interview Keith Elwin. And I have another podcast, just another pinball podcast. and what I had a really awesome episode 20. I interviewed Scott Denise and I love TNA and we were able to break down. Like, I just wanted to know from start to finish, what was your design concept? Like, I love the show, how it's made. I want to know behind the curtain, take me through the whole process. And I loved doing that interview. And when I got a Deadpool, I realized how much I love that game. And so I was I reached out and I was blown away that that George and Tanya, George Gomez and Tanya Klay said they would let me interview them about Deadpool. So we did the same thing. Like, let's go step by step, go all the way through the game and talk about Deadpool. That was episode 30. It was awesome. Well, Godzilla was a similar situation like this game's incredible. And it's the rules, the layouts, the shots, the everything. It's all from one guy's mind, Keith Elwin. And I was nervous. I didn't know if I'd, one, be able to do it, like actually be able to interview Keith or if he was interested in doing it. But I was kind of intimidated. I mean, Keith Elwin is the man. And yeah, I had an opportunity to interview him and it was so much fun. What a nice guy. what uh he was you could tell he was just excited to talk about something he cares so much about and um yeah we went step by step through the whole thing you know what were your initial thoughts and there was a lot that i learned about that and there's a lot that that guy thinks about that i don't think people realize um and so i would encourage people to go listen to the podcast but i don't know the two of you guys have heard it i don't know if anything stood out to you um but one of the things that i that stood out to me and we've kind of hinted at this with some of these other games that we've talked about today but like when keith designed godzilla goal number one was the layout and it wasn't the toys it wasn't the theme it wasn't the anything it was just the layout like he had shots in his heads that he just wanted to experience in a pinball machine and that's that's what he did first was design an awesome layout and he just kind of gave himself places to add toys later so the toys were a secondary mission for him and And that, I think, speaks volume. Like, I don't know. That really stood out to me, and I think you feel that when you play his games because the shots are what keep you coming back to the game, the fact that all of them feel good.
    83:34
    I don't know. You two, like, we'll let Tom go first. That way Travis can really think it through. But, Tom, was there anything in that interview that, like, stood out to you or kind of like? Yes, actually. I think that was the most I've ever heard Keith Elwin talk. yeah no uh it was really well done i liked how you guys went like over the play field and he talked about what he was thinking as far as you know the design but i yeah it was a great interview thank you travis i'm just happy that i didn't kill off joel's show like the last episode he had was six months ago with me on it and then just nothing and then thank god he all right you know what it probably what it was is joel realized he had reached the top yeah of the pinball podcast guest and he's just like i had gomez on i had greg bone on who do i get on next and he got me on he's just like well you're probably like shit now nobody else wants to be on my show. But I mean, you do realize the reality was we were going to record a triple drain once. Tom couldn't do it. So we decided to try the two of us. And then we did rock, paper, scissors to see if it would be my show or your show. So that is true. I mean, if you actually want to think that you were planned, go ahead. That is true. But yeah, that's a little background. But no. So yeah, what I loved about the podcast in general is just hearing the thought process behind everything. But I mean, what I've noticed, and this is why I started calling you Joel Rogan, you're really good at getting people to open up and to talk. And that's something that's just, that's difficult to do. So I mean, kudos to you for being able to do that, but I'm glad you're able to do that. So I mean, yeah, it was an excellent podcast overall. And I mean, there was just, there was a lot of interesting tidbits in there, but I mean, And pretty much, I enjoyed hearing what his process was in terms of thinking about how a shot needs to be and how long he actually takes on deciding on what to do. I mean, that's the thing. He is very thorough with everything. And it shows in the end product. It shows. There's a reason why all of his games are universally acclaimed. Even Avengers. And we all knew that, hey, he had to put this together awfully fast. But think about it. that's if that's his putting something together fast that's insane yeah i mean that really is insane a hundred percent and and that was the thing that i came away from that there there's nothing in that game that's a compromise like he's not going to put something in a game that he's not proud of and and he's going to make it work and he's going to fine-tune everything and everything had logic like everything had logic and that's that's all i can say is I would encourage you guys, it's on the Pinball Network, same numbers as this, but just another Pinball Podcast episode number 33, where I interview Keith Owen. Give it a listen. And it just, not for me, but listen, like just give, like, just listen to Keith. Listen to what this guy thinks about. It just, I have nothing but like, I gained so much more respect for him because it's not like he got lucky. Like everything that's in that game is because he thought it through and put the time and energy investment into it. And like a perfect example is the video clips, like the humor that's in that game. I just thought the animation department did a really good job. Like, no, Keith Elwin, all of the video clips that are in that game are clips that he pulled from the hours of footage they had and edited down and told them to put it in the game. Like that blew me. Like, I did not expect that. You've noticed that the ball saves, they tell like a mini story within it. That's the thing that cracks me up the most. Like those are hilarious in themselves. But that's the thing is it's just like that's – this is Keith. And I know he's giving credit. Like he has an amazing engineer. His coder is incredible. There are obviously other people contributing to this game. But this guy, he is taking on the game designer role like entirely, designing. designing, like he has the vision, not only for the layout, what he wants the mechs to do, keeping the cost down so that they can get everything in the game, knowing how much he wants to use the theme, get the clips in, everything. Like he is taking ownership of all that. And he explains it all. And he talks through all of it. He, to be honest, when we started that podcast, he's like, yeah, let's shoot for an hour. And I would have happily talked to that guy for another hour. And I know he had more, he had way more to talk about. So give it a listen. but and I did I did learn that he listens to this podcast so Keith if you're listening thanks again for being on here I was about to say it now this is going to sound like a kiss ass since you said that but I still have this thought in my mind the thing that you realize if you ever have an opportunity to talk to Keith you realize really quick that this man has forgotten more pinball than what we'll ever know like it's amazing and so I mean that just goes to show you what really goes into these games. And we could say the same thing about Raymond, about, I know whenever I talk to Colin McAlpine, I mean, there's Steve Bowden, there's a full list of names that there's just so many. Tom Graff. Yeah, Tom Graff. Of course, Tom Graff. There's so many highly intelligent people out there that just, when they see pinball, they just see it on a whole another level. I mean, it's like Neo and the Matrix, I imagine. It's just code that that's all they see. And so it's very impressive when you get to pull the curtain or get to see the curtain pulled back a little bit and you get to hear just the nuance that you might not even realize that's there. And it makes you appreciate the games that much more. Yep. A hundred percent. And that's where, um, I know, I mean, I just, I think we're living in a time right now where there's some amazing pinball machines being created and coded. And, um, I just know, I mean, I feel very fortunate and lucky that I've had an opportunity to kind of pick the brains of some of these amazing people. And, you know, to have people like Raymond Davidson, who's come on my streams to explain things. I just like I just I just want to get as much of that out there and soak it all in. So it's awesome. This is a fun time. And I this is a lot of fun. I mean, podcasting, just shooting the breeze with two of you guys is a great time. But then to kind of turn it over and just be able to sit down and just sit back and listen to some of these really amazing pinball people talk. about the stuff that they make is, is been a ton of fun, ton of fun. But, um, yeah, that's the end of our, that's our fourth point on a five point list. Uh, and that's the last point because once again, Travis can't number, um,
    90:21
    I don't know, Tom, you got anything else? You good? Yeah, I'm kind of tired. That really took it out of you. That first 20 minutes really, really took it out of you. I could tell. Yeah. He just coasted the rest of the podcast. He's like, I'm good. I said my piece. That's what I'm good at, Travis. Well, I know Zach, many had kind of said at the beginning of March that he was going to take a break for a few weeks. So I know. I mean, I just released a podcast. I know there's a few more coming out from some of the other channels. I'm glad this one's getting out. The three of us did talk that I think we're going to try to get a podcast out before TPN with the focus being TPN. TPF. T-P-F. Texas Pinball Network. No. Oh, dear Lord. Texas Pinball Festival. I get made fun of for not being able to count.
    91:14
    Yeah, that's not going away. Yeah, Oklahoma math is real. And your tours. Your tours. Tour. So, yes, Texas Pinball Festival. I know Travis and I are both going to be there. Verdict's still out on Tom, even though he said definitively no, but we're going to hold out hope. You never know about Tom's tripod. I've got to be a dental hero.
    91:32
    I've got to be a dental hero. Okay. You got to fix the teeth. So, yeah. So we will be there, but I think the three of us are going to record a podcast before, especially once they release the tournament bank. I think we're going to try to – like I think we might do a triple combo on every game in the tournament bank. You know, why not? We haven't done it in a while. We've got a lot of catching up to do.
    91:54
    So that should be a lot of fun. But, yeah, we can do some plugs real quick. Travis? Yeah. you guys can find me here on the triple drain pinball podcast. I do still have a YouTube. I'm just taking a brief hiatus from that roughly two and a half months worth now, but don't worry. I've been getting messages that there is more content that is coming out. It's just going to take some time. But other than that, um, yeah, you guys can find me here. Uh, Travis has been trying to grow a mustache and he said he wasn't going to be on video again until it comes in. So what do you need another month or two? Uh, yeah, maybe, Maybe some row gain in four months. Perfect.
    92:37
    Tom, I know there has been a lot at District 82, and there's a lot coming up. So plug away, man. Yeah, so we got a tournament Friday, March 11th, knockout tournament, and the Lucky 13 pinball tournament on Saturday. so uh the friday night one starts at 6 p.m and the saturday one i believe starts at noon and you can find me on twitch at fox cities pinball or on instagram and facebook for announcements perfect and youtube but there you go yeah and i am uh i'm joel i do um well i just did just another pinball podcast and then i do um the pinball network stream every wednesday night And then every other Thursday I do a flipping out stream. I will tell you this Thursday is going to be pretty cool.
    93:34
    This Thursday I'm actually streaming the Billy Madison re-theme pin. That's pretty cool. Yeah. It turns out the people that made that live 20 minutes from me. And so, yeah, we've arranged that. So if everything works out, I'm going over Wednesday night, setting everything up, testing it, making sure everything's good. And then Thursday night we're actually going to stream that pin. So that'll be on the Flippin' Out Twitch channel, which will be a lot of fun. So, yeah, that's it for me. Otherwise, like always, if there's anything that we can do for you, feel free to email us at tripledrain at gmail.com. And, yeah, is that all? Travis, you good? You shaking your head? Yeah, just direct all hate mail to Joel Rogan here. Wow. All right. Like always, Tom, you get the last words. Let's flip out of here. Ooh, catchy. Oh, I shouldn't respond. Never mind. Do it again. I'll keep my mouth shut, but I was not expecting that. Let's flip out of here.