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SDTM Episode 57: This Month In Pinball/April 2018 - POTC modifications and IMDN first impressions

Straight Down the Middle·video·1h 4m·analyzed·Apr 16, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

SDTM discusses JJP spinner removal backlash and Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (LE) impressions.

Summary

Straight Down the Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast 57 (April 2018) covers two major pinball announcements: Jersey Jack Pinball decision to replace the three-disc spinner mechanic with a single disc spinner on an unannounced title (likely Pirates of the Caribbean based on context), and initial impressions of Stern's Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast Of The Beast (Limited Edition) Edition. The hosts discuss community backlash over the spinner removal, defend JJP's transparency and design innovation, and explore broader themes of manufacturer loyalty and tribal fandom in the pinball community.

Key Claims

  • Eric Meunier from JJP announced removal of the three-disc spinner mechanism due to reliability issues and replacement with a single disc spinner; chest opening/closing will be removed and permanently open.

    high confidence · Greg and Zach directly discuss announcement from Eric Meunier; they reference a video where Eric announced the change

  • Community response included significant backlash with pre-order cancellations from players citing the spinner as a key reason for purchase.

    high confidence · Zach and Greg discuss reading complaints on Pinside forums; Greg says 'There's a lot of backlash' and references multiple 'I'm going to cancel my pre-order' comments

  • The spinner mechanism was never actually coded/functional in the prototype; the rewards functionality will move to the LCD screen instead.

    medium confidence · Greg states 'i never experienced the coding of it i never experienced the the rings the rings locking so the rewards' and 'the rewards...on the lcd screen now'

  • Stern has superior production speed compared to other manufacturers, shipping machines within weeks of announcement.

    high confidence · Zach states about Iron Maiden: 'I'm like ooh, new pinball machine that I can have in two weeks' and 'That's what I was going to say. That's another like the biggest plus of Stern Pinball. Announcement, you see it. Announcement, you see it. It's shipped.'

  • The pirate-themed game (context suggests Pirates of the Caribbean) contains multiple innovative toys/mechanisms: pirate ship, diverters, subways, star lights, magnets, trunk with physical ball lock, maelstrom spinner, and LCD screen.

    high confidence · Zach and Greg enumerate the machine's features extensively during discussion of what remains after spinner removal

  • Zach and Greg previously published a deluxe machine review of the game and had initially overlooked the spinner due to the abundance of other features.

    high confidence · Greg: 'when you and I went over this deluxe machine review is when we talked about the toys...you left out the spinning disc because you forgot about it because of all the other toys'

Notable Quotes

  • “This is what happens when people are creative and transparent...Eric Meunier, new designer, he went for the home run. Went for the home run and he hit it and he still hit it.”

    Zach @ ~18:40 — Zach's defense of JJP's decision-making and Eric's design ambitions, framing the spinner removal as evidence of integrity rather than failure

  • “Do you think for a damn second, Greg, that any other pinball manufacturer would be that straight up transparent about things happening?”

    Zach @ ~19:20 — Core argument about JJP's transparency compared to industry norms; suggests other manufacturers hide problems

  • “I'm afraid a company like Jersey Jack...maybe they don't swing for the fences maybe they're not as transparent maybe they hide stuff...I'm scared that they won't allow someone like Eric to take that chance again”

    Zach @ ~25:00 — Zach's concern that community backlash will make JJP risk-averse in future designs

  • “We've got a Mercedes or a BMW, and we've got a really nice Chevrolet, right? I drive a Chevrolet.”

    Greg @ ~34:20 — Analogy comparing JJP (luxury brands) to Stern (accessible quality); defends value proposition of each

  • “Why be a fanboy? Like good pinball machines...I always feel like it's like the Stern fanboys versus Jersey Jack fanboys. Why be a fanboy?”

    Greg @ ~35:40 — Critique of tribal manufacturer loyalty in the community; advocates for game-by-game evaluation

  • “The lead singer sounds like a cat being spayed or neutered...It reminds me of...a wedding cover, hair metal cover band.”

    Zach @ ~55:20 — Zach's harsh critique of Iron Maiden music/vocals; exemplifies candid critical approach the hosts promise

  • “But here's the deal on the music...it is perfect music for pinball.”

    Greg @ ~58:00 — Reframes music criticism in context of pinball gameplay experience; nuances the earlier negative take

Entities

ZachpersonGregpersonEric MeunierpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyPinball Piratesgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Three-disc spinner mechanism on unreleased JJP pirate-themed game being removed due to reliability/durability issues; Eric Meunier indicated mechanism wasn't holding up as required for production

    high · Greg: 'They alluded as if it wasn't holding up. It wasn't reliable enough.' Zach: 'We don't know if it's coding. We don't know if the mech's not holding up.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Significant community backlash over spinner removal, with players canceling pre-orders; backlash driven by FOMO over innovative new mechanic and perceived loss of features without price reduction

    high · Greg: 'There's been some backlash already. A lot of backlash.' References multiple pre-order cancellations on Pinside forums

  • ?

    design_philosophy: JJP's design philosophy under Eric Meunier emphasizes creative innovation and new mechanisms (three-disc spinner was novel); hosts worry backlash may discourage future risk-taking by the company

    high · Zach: 'When you're creative and you try to do new mechs and you try to do new things, shit like this can happen...I'm scared that they won't allow someone like Eric to take that chance again'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Hosts defend JJP's transparency as rare in the industry and credit-worthy; believe transparent communication about failures should increase trust, not decrease it; worried backlash undermines this goodwill

    high · Zach: 'This is what happens when people are creative and transparent...Do you think for a damn second, Greg, that any other pinball manufacturer would be that straight up transparent?'

  • $

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.194

0:00
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0:23
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1:13
All right, let's kick this shit. You hit it off with a bumper knife straight down the middle again. Middle again. You had a fling with a fling shot. You're rolling out the island again. I tried to cradle you with my whippery It was all in vain Baby, baby, baby Why are you doing me wrong? Who is wrong? Don't you remember the good days when we used to get old? You want to kick this shit? Yes. Let's do it. What are we doing this week, Greg? We are talking about pinball.
1:50

Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (LE) has no traditional toys/mechanisms, only a lifting ramp (which has existed since Williams in the 1980s).

high confidence · Zach criticizes players who canceled Pirates pre-orders then ordered Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (LE): 'But the same person goes and drops their deposit for an Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (LE) with not one effing toy in the entire machine'

  • Zombie Yeti (Jeremy Packer) is the artist for Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (LE) and may have been constrained by required stylistic guidelines.

    high confidence · Greg: 'Zombie Yeti is a phenomenal artist. I feel like, if anything, he's kind of held back on this one because he was required to use a certain style'

    • “I think that that's what maybe the problem is of why that we can so easily speak about something like this...those people aren't privy to that and they don't really understand what's gone into this decision”

    Greg @ ~45:20 — Meta-commentary on hosts' insider knowledge advantage and responsibility to educate community

  • “I still want one. I still have one. I still have the pre-order in for LA. Just change the art.”

    Zach @ ~47:50 — Despite spinner removal, Zach remains committed to the Pirates machine; minor art critique

  • “That's what I was going to say. That's another like the biggest plus of Stern Pinball...Announcement, you see it. Announcement, you see it. It's shipped.”

    Greg @ ~51:00 — Acknowledges Stern's production/distribution speed as a major competitive advantage

    • Iron Maiden Legacy Of The Beast (Limited Edition)
    game
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Straight Down the Middleorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    Hoagieperson
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Pin Stadiumcompany
    Pin Graphicscompany
    Marco Specialtiescompany

    market_signal: Community debate over whether JJP should reduce machine price due to spinner removal; hosts argue R&D costs are sunk and irrelevant to final pricing

    medium · Zach discusses people asking 'maybe they should charge less for it now' but counters: 'The research and design costs are already spent'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stern Pinball's rapid announcement-to-shipment cycle (weeks) is identified as a major competitive advantage over slower manufacturers like JJP; influences purchasing decisions

    high · Zach: 'I'm like ooh, new pinball machine that I can have in two weeks...That's what I was going to say. That's another like the biggest plus of Stern Pinball'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Hosts observe and critique pervasive tribal manufacturer loyalty (Stern fanboys vs. JJP fanboys) in community; argues this limits objective evaluation of machines on individual merits

    high · Greg: 'I always feel like it's like the Stern fanboys versus Jersey Jack fanboys. Why be a fanboy?...it gives them an identity'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Pirate machine retains substantial mechanical depth despite spinner removal (pirate ship, diverters, subways, magnets, maelstrom, trunk, physical ball lock, LCD); spinner was primarily visual/aspirational rather than functionally essential

    high · Zach: 'it never really did anything when i loved the game...if you take this spinning disc out...you still got five more toys than any other manufacturer'

  • ?

    content_signal: Hosts acknowledge their prior access to playtest/deluxe review of pirate machine gives them insider knowledge advantage over community; they use this to educate/temper backlash

    high · Greg: 'when you and I went over this deluxe machine review...I'm kind of criticizing some of the comments on Pinside...those people aren't privy to that'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Iron Maiden LE music and vocals receive harsh criticism from hosts (compared to 'cat being spayed,' 'hair metal cover band') but reframed as 'perfect for pinball' in context of gameplay; Egyptian theme well-received

    high · Zach: 'The lead singer sounds like a cat being spayed or neutered...But here's the deal on the music...it is perfect music for pinball'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Iron Maiden LE availability and rapid release cycle appeal to collectors seeking quick gratification and FOMO satisfaction; contrasts with JJP's slower, more anticipated release cadence

    medium · Zach ordered Iron Maiden LE partly due to 'I can have in two weeks'; positioned as alternative to waiting months for JJP releases

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: JJP's ambitious innovative mechanics (three-disc spinner) create production/reliability risks; decision to remove spinner may reflect production timeline pressure and capacity constraints

    medium · Greg: 'They just can't keep pushing back the release date on that. That costs money. We've got salaries we're paying...Got to make a decision here'

    • We're talking about pinball. for all you who have never seen our channel we talk about pinball we dream about pinball do you ever dream about pinball honestly being all honest no i've never actually dreamed about pinball i dream about a lot of weird shit but i never dream about pinball which is weird because move on it's in my head all the time so i do how sad is that you just dream about balls no it's not because he knows it's true like he's at a loss of words have you ever seen zach not fire back with something no because i was thinking about my specific dreams usually they're like where i'll like go out and i'll rub my eyes and be like oh shit i already got the iron maiden or how did i get the pirates game before they started production or like something like more like oh shit why am i dreaming about balls or i'll stumble across this old man who's on his deathbed and his dying wish. His dying wish is for me to take over his 30 pink collection. He's like, Zach, you've got to do it. I don't love it when I'll say this is the most stupid shit and people just completely ignore what I say. It's like my favorite thing in life. It's just the most ugh.
    3:05
    So let's do it. Let's do, we call this segment This Month in Pinball. That was our theme song too. this month in pinball. So there's not a lot of stuff to talk about, but we're going to cover the topics, some hot topics. But the few things that are going on are kind of exciting to talk about. Yes. Sad to talk about. Yes.
    3:29
    So let's start with, so you don't have pinball dreams. I do. That's about it. What other dreams do you have?
    3:40
    I don't know. Any odd dreams lately? I'm trying to think. Do you ever have the teeth crumbling out dream? No. That's an anxiety response. Do you guys have that? Where the teeth are brittle and it's like, oh, shit. Welcome to Dr. Minnie's Analyze Your Dreams, episode 54. Ever had a night terror? Yeah, I had night terrors. No, like legit a night terror where the subject matter is not really important. You just wake up in fear of something. I used to have them. They were scary. About like two weeks ago. I used to have them as a kid. What, were you just like, oh, I was dreaming about lollipops, and then you just wake up terrified for no f***ing reason? No, it's different than a nightmare. I need to edit that again. No, it's different in the sense that, like, it's an overwhelming fear of, like, doom when you wake up. I bet this is what your patients hear.
    4:32
    I'd say, you know, 25% of them do. The other 75% are just transformed. It's true. All right. So we got some heartbreaking news last night, didn't we? Yes, we actually did. Bummed me out when I seen it. Tell them what happened. Eric Menier from JJP had to announce that they are doing away with the three-disc spinner. Yeah, they still got their prototype machine, so they're making adjustments before production. And that they're going to do away with the chest opening and closing. It will just be permanently open. So you can view the balls. Yeah. Physical ball lock. Yes. Yep. We all know how Zach likes to see his balls. But on a side note, back to this here. You're the only one that's got three balls, though.
    5:25
    You need to get that checked out. My two balls. This is getting out of hand. All right. So go on. So they replaced the three-disc spinner with one single disc spinner. With a tried-and-true mechanism that's worked on all the other spinners. Yes, and there's been some backlash already. A lot of backlash. Get the pitch, Porks. Yeah, and it's been everything from, are they going to cut the cost of it now? Oh, that was such a big part of the game. That was why I was buying the game. I'm going to cancel my pre-order. There's a lot of, I'm going to cancel my pre-order. Yeah, that's why I was buying this game, and it's a huge deal in the game, and all this other stuff. and let's ask ourselves let's let's break this down you're ready is it a bummer yes and no on my end really yes i think it's a bummer all the way around yo why is it why isn't it a bummer it's not a bummer to me because well i still love the game and i never experienced the coding of it i never experienced the the rings the rings locking so the rewards the rewards but you still get that yes we should on the back on the on the it's going to be on the lcd screen now yeah so you still get that type of plundering yes so all that's still going to go on but i'm saying as of now i still love the game i still had fun with it and it never really did anything when i loved the game so the the thing that it did do was the sound annoyed me a little bit oh the motor and i'll be honest and i remember i'd said something to you about that you really I don't really... It's a prototype. I don't know. I don't even really notice it. I didn't think about it. But I noticed it when it was running. Okay. So to me, I still love the game. It was kind of nice when it was spinning opposite directions. It would wiggle your ball. That's cool. But people hated that. People were so angry about that. Oh, man, you just don't know what's going to do the ball. You remember all the people complaining about it. Yes. You just don't know what it does to the ball. At least with a disc spinning in one direction, you sort of somewhat know where it's going to go. So I don't honestly have a problem with it not being there. It doesn't change the game because it wasn't coded yet. Would you rather there be no spinner at all?
    7:46
    That I don't know. I've thought about it, and that I can't really answer. Honest opinion, we're always honest here. I don't really like the way that it looks right now. I don't necessarily like the art of it. Yeah, I kind of think that that maybe needs to be retooled. Do you think if that art was tweaked, then people would be more open to it? Some people, yeah, but I don't know if people ever, because I think it's a psychological thing. People feel, no matter if they really liked it, didn't like it, kind of whatever on the fence about it, I think that they feel that it was a cool mechanism and it was something new, and I think that they feel that it's something being taken away from them that they should have had. Even if they hated it, it's being taken away from me. That's true, though. It is true. You're paying the same amount of money for less. Yes, but go into this part first, and then we'll get into that aspect. Go into what? Well, then I'll go into it. Yeah, go ahead. So, you know, you've got the people complaining, too. You know, maybe they should charge less for it now. And I don't know how that I feel on that because... The research and design costs are already spent. Yes, exactly. It's a ton of money, and some people may argue, well, JJP should eat that, we should get less, blah, blah. But what if it was never there? What if it was one single spinning disk the entire time? The price of the pin would be the same. Same damn price. And do you think anybody would say anything? No, there would have been nothing, because there's already the badass rocking pirate ship. There's an innovative. We could go through the list. what I remembered when you and I went over this deluxe machine review is when we talked about the toys I think it was either during that or one of our conversations you left out the spinning disc because you forgot about it because of all the other toys yeah and gimmicks and mechanisms in the game and I said what about spinning disc and you were like oh shit yeah the spinning disc so but that's what I'm saying like everything that I've played on I love the game and the disc never did anything for me. It wasn't really active. I just thought it visually looked cool. Oh, visually it looked amazing. It looked cool. And that's why I think that this new one... I'd like to see them do the... I know they're probably not going to change the art, but if they did, just go back to that same... from the film, that same type of look. Yeah, something. I'm fine with that. Some kind of compass or dial or do something. Here's the deal. Here's my take on it. My take on it is, this is what happens when people are creative and transparent. I'm going to go against the grain here because quite frankly, I think this is ridiculous to get upset and canceling an order for this? Really, guys? So here's my take. This is what happens when you're creative and you're transparent. Eric Menyer, new designer, he's helped on the other JJP titles but this is lead designing, he went for the home run. Went for the home run and he hit it and he still hit it. But when you're creative and you try to do new mechs and you try to do new things, shit like this can happen. Now what the hell do you do when stuff like this can't happen? Our experience, it worked great every time we played it. The trunk worked great every time we played it, but I can see they're having issues with it. So when you're creative and you take chances and you're transparent about it. This is a company and Eric is a guy, and you can tell in the video, he's a straight up dude. He's going to tell you guys what's going on. He was very disappointed. You could see that he was very, he just, it was the last thing he wanted to do was get on there and say. But do you think for a damn second, Greg, that any other pinball manufacturer would be that straight up transparent about things happening? No, I don't think so. When have we ever seen a video released that said, hey, listen, we're having problems with this and we're going to have to scrap this. We want to make it right. Because that's the thing is it's like you said, like we've met Eric a few times and he is so passionate. It's not something that was taken lighthearted. He put so much work, that entire team put so much work into that mech that if they could make it work, and we don't know why. We don't know if it's coding. We don't know if the mech's not holding up. They alluded as if it wasn't holding up. It wasn't reliable enough. And so we don't know the full story behind why it's being pulled, but I just feel so confident that it has to be something that they feel is in the very best interest of the pinball community to pull that because Eric worked so hard on it. And they know that it's such a beautiful feature of the game that it took everything they had to make the decision to pull that. And that's where my problem is, is people's treating it like they just decided, ah, you know what, it's a cost-cutting measure, or it's something else to get rid of it. I will guarantee that it was not anything to save money or anything else. It's got to be just a problem. And it's like you said, they could have shipped that son of a bitch. A lot of manufacturers do. And who knows? They ship stuff like that. A lot of manufacturers do. Yeah, it could have had a 15% reliability aspect to it or something. At this point, Highway Pinball is just sending parts in boxes without instructions. Yeah. And this company is transparent. They said, hey, it's not working the way we want it to, so we're switching it up before you guys get these machines. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. And I respect that, and that alone is why I feel so strongly. Everybody's like, oh, Zach's a fanboy for JJP. I, at this point, don't own a JJP machine. So I don't know if you could say that. I never will. And he never will just because of the price. But I think this is what happens whenever you're creative and you are transparent about something is you get shit on. Here's the problem. Here's the problem, Greg. I'm afraid a company like Jersey Jack, who makes the nicest pinball machines on the market, I don't think anybody can argue that I think you've got to be careful because now maybe they don't swing for the fences maybe they're not as transparent maybe they hide stuff because of all this if orders really are falling out maybe they back it off and I don't want that I'm not so worried I share that sentiment I'm not so worried that they won't be transparent but I'm scared that they won't allow someone like Eric to take that chance again I don't know if as a company they will say, you know what, that's a badass idea. Let's go with it. Let's try this out. Something that's never been done before. Let's try this. And I'm scared that they say no. Let's play it safe. Remember what happened with that? Yeah, remember what happened with that? Even though you're still getting that pirate ship. You're still getting everything. You're getting everything. You've got all the diverters, the subways. You've got the star lights. You've got the magnets. You've got the trunk, the physical ball lock. you got the in lanes why can't i remember you got the tortuga tom spinning yeah well no not tortuga tom what's the thing called the the tornado the twirl i always maelstrom the maelstrom you got the maelstrom which is cool yeah you've got a big old lcd screen you've got an apron that tells you where to go like here's the deal okay i know you let me be careful here but here's the deal all right even you take this spinning disc out and you take the damn trunk lid that lifts up you take those out and you still got five more toys than any other manufacturer puts in their machines yeah who cares it really this is complete bullshit uh it doesn't work don't put it in the machine yeah it sucks but i'd rather have a machine that works that's where i'm at on this i mean i i agree like i i make me not want the machine more i don't give a shit i still want that machine because it is one of the funnest playing machines ever it's awesome yeah and i want you guys to really think about that like how much in in the games that you had played of it and if you haven't played it and you're canceling your pre-order because of it then i kind of think you're a little stupid oh whoa like i mean you might have forgot that i don't know but it's just i mean honestly like like if you're gonna say i've never played that game but i was all in because i saw it spin but now i saw but now i saw that it wouldn't spin yeah that it's one spin i don't really want it well you know i don't get it i think it sucks i can understand i can understand I wanted the three rings I did too I wanted the of course I want a chest to open up Well it like we talked before I think that the thing that excited me about it was the possibilities of it being something. And maybe that that's where everybody's hurt is coming from. Is it's not like, oh, I don't get the three swing. It's what could have been. It's the fact that it's never been done before. And it's innovative. It's new. And then the fact of it picking your extras. innovation. Here's the biggest issue I have. Here's the argument that just burns my nuggets a little bit here. Don't you hate when you burn your nuggets?
    16:44
    This is what burns my nuggets. Chestnuts roasting on an open fire. It's like April. Here's what was frustrating me and got me all heated when I was reading Pinside. Oh, you're just now heated?
    16:58
    Just now getting to the heated part. He's just now getting to the heated part, guys. When people say something to this effect, I was in on it. It doesn't have that. That's essential.
    17:11
    I'm out. Right? But the same person goes and drops their deposit for an Iron Maiden LE with not one effing toy in the entire machine. Now, we'll talk about Iron Maiden here in a minute. Well, you might be able to count the lifting ramp and all that. Okay. That could be considered a toy. We'll give you a lifting ramp that has been done since Bally Williams back in the 80s. We'll give you that. And look, I ordered an Iron Maiden. Yeah. So it's not like I don't like it. I'll tell you why I like it and why I don't like it. But the point being, for the person that says, oh, they got rid of that toy, but you're buying an Iron Maiden LE with zero toys in the whole damn game? Yeah.
    17:52
    Stop. Here's the thing. Part of the scare being it's still going to be one of the greatest pinball machines made. I think so. It's a total blast. The call-outs are freaking awesome. It's a light show. It's like this. Not to use a car argument. But Jersey Jack makes, I love Stern machines. I love Jersey Jack machines. At this point, we can't compare them. We can't. No. We can't compare them. We have a Mercedes or a BMW, and we've got a really nice Chevrolet, right? I drive a Chevrolet. Exactly. I drive a Chevrolet. A lot of people, I can only afford a Chevrolet, so I buy Chevrolets. That's why I buy my Sterns. But if a Mercedes comes with one little feature that's not there that you thought was going to be there, that doesn't mean you're like, I'm a Ford man from here on out. No. Mercedes people buy Mercedes cars. Ford, Chevy people buy Ford and Chevy cars. Sometimes Chevy makes some really awesome models. Like this Iron Maiden made me. Sometimes, eh, they make WWE. But the point being is that we can't compare that. Since when do we have to pick sides? What is this bullshit that people have to pick sides between? I always feel like it's like the Stern fanboys versus Jersey Jack fanboys. Why be a fanboy? Like good pinball machines. But, you know, it's like that in politics. It's like that in everything in life. I take sides in that, though. Well, it shit annoys me in that, too. Because it's just literally break it down from game to game. Actually, decipher what is going on with that game.
    19:20
    Obviously, we buy everything that there is. no matter what manufacturer it is. We love it. We talk bad about this manufacturer. We talk bad about that manufacturer. We talk good about this one. It just doesn't... We take it game by game of what's going on. And this is off-subject, because it still goes on. I like this subject. This is morphed into a... The fanboy. Why are we picking sides? What is this? Because there are a lot of those people out there. Now, some of them are more vocal than others, so sometimes I think that it seems more widespread than other times. I think it gives them an identity. It does. Give them an identity. If they're pro-starring, they feel that they're a part of that group of people. I wonder what he thinks about this new release, or I wonder what he's going to say about Jersey Jack having, you know, I think that's all it is, identity. I agree, but it's very annoying when that happens. That it's just like, I've got a side, and no matter what, no matter what they do, I've got to take up for this manufacturer.
    20:14
    Or, you know, I've got to shit on this manufacturer no matter what because I really like this manufacturer, so I've got to say everything. Every manufacturer has problems They all have bullshit And they all have strengths Yes, they all have strengths, that's exactly right We can't shit on Sterns, Sterns had some playfield problems Sterns had everything else But they got bored Sterns shoot like nothing else And they've got the artist like no other And they've got a price point like no other Like you can't beat that price point So that's what I'm saying You have to When you shit on them You have to also think about why you like them It's like anything in life Nothing is going to be 100%. But we're always going to be real, aren't we? Yeah, why not? What have we got to lose? Nothing.
    20:59
    $2 a YouTube video? That's so sad. So people are going to ask, okay, Zach and Greg, how does this change your review that you've already done on it? Now, we were kind of told that this was production-ready kind of thing. This is a setback I don't think they've seen coming. No. And it could explain why things were being pushed back, as they continued to fight to try to get this to work. Eric did say on his video that these are coming out soon. Production's coming out soon. And maybe that's what did it. You know, I've seen a comment on somebody, and it's not necessarily a negative comment that they made, but they made a comment of, guys, man, just stop and take your time and get it right.
    21:41
    It might not be something that can be gotten right, and then people, they're going to lose even more, They just can't keep pushing back the release date on that. That costs money. We've got salaries we're paying. Exactly. Yeah, they've got a whole team of people. Got to make a decision here. Exactly. So I back you guys up, Jersey Jack, because I love your machines. I think they're fantastic. You're working on themes. That would be my only downside to Jersey Jack. You're working establishing the intellectual properties on some of that stuff. I'm excited for new machines coming from Jersey Jack, probably more so than any other manufacturer. So tough decision. Sucks to be you guys, but you made a good one. And, you know, one other point to make is, Sometimes I think back to when we got into this that we have maybe been unrightfully hard on some things prior because we are more privy to certain insights and information now. And when you start learning the ins and outs of what goes on in manufacturing these games, licensing and everything else, you really learn that there are hang-ups and there's things that you can't get around, whether it be financially or anything else. and I think that sometimes maybe we had been too hard on that and I think that that's what maybe the problem is of why that we can so easily speak about something like this and we're kind of criticizing some of the comments on Pennside and stuff because those people aren't privy to that and they don't really understand what's gone into this decision or what's gone into it that's why we want you guys to know we're going to be a rational voice at least try to be we're going to let you know straight up what you need to know, the good, the bad, the ugly. I agree. We're always going to do that. So that was Pirates of the Caribbean Changes. Yes. I still want one. I still have one. I still have the pre-order in for LA. Just change the art.
    23:26
    Yeah, that'd be my only thing. That'd be my only thing. Change the art. And I don't mind the lid coming up and down. No. It was cool. Anytime something moves in a pinball machine, it's cool. Yeah. But if I can see the physical ball lock, guess what? It's a physical ball lock. Yeah. What have we said over and over? We love physical ball locks. I agree. we're good with that. Alright, so another machine just was announced and produced in the time that we had our last episode. And that's what's crazy about Stern Pinball. That's what I was going to say. That's another like the biggest plus of Stern Pinball. I love that. Announcement, you see it. Announcement, you see it. It's shipped. That's part of the reason I bought Iron Maiden. Because I'm like ooh, new pinball machine that I can have in two weeks. I think that that is one thing that Stern has the most going for them is that. Absolutely. Because it's satisfying. Hell yeah. The hype is all still there. Everything is still going on. And it's pretty. And you're like, ooh. Yeah. So let's give our first impressions. We have not played it yet. No. I've got, by the time you guys are watching this, I should have one either this week or the beginning of next week. Yes. Right? So we'll do maybe an unboxing and a review and stuff. But based on pictures and gameplay alone, let's start with art. What do you think, bud? Oh, art. I like it. I know you don't really care too much for it. People are going to hate me this episode. I love the whole, you know what really sold it for me? I'm familiar with the artwork that Iron Maiden used, the band. Okay. I'm familiar with some of their cover art and everything else. Yes. But, you know, I'm not a fan of Iron Maiden. I don't listen to them. I don't really do them. Oh, careful. Well, I'm just saying it was never my music that I really listened to. I know of Iron Maiden. I know a lot of Iron Maiden fans.
    25:07
    Our buddy Hoagie. Yeah. He's an Iron Maiden fan. Yeah, huge Iron Maiden fan. but I just I really like the Egyptian motif the gym said the theme on there like that that that eased it for me because I really like well you like Stargate yeah I really it's one of a huge thing like I really like Egyptian stuff so that really helped you've always been into that into archaeology yeah yeah so it really adds it adds a little up you know what you should be like the modern-day Indiana Jones you know right Spielberg needs to reach out to you the hillbilly Jones cowboy boots my jeans tucked into my bullwhip so the art for coming to raid your bars I'll be a short stack I'll be your short stack. Uncle Jones! I'll be your short stack. When I smile, I look somebody. We could be brothers. So, artwork for me really does nothing. Uh-oh. Everybody right now is like, oh my God, this son of a bitch.
    26:17
    Zombie Yeti is a phenomenal artist. I feel like, if anything, he's kind of held back on this one because he was required to use a certain style, if you will. So, I wish they would have passed. But, you know, it's kind of his style. I mean, you look at Metallica. No, it is. It is. You're right. You couldn't have got a better artist to convey that. I don't know if Jeremy Packer is an Iron Maiden fan or not. If he is, then I think this is awesome for him.
    26:43
    He looks like he'd be an Iron Maiden fan. Oh, look at you, judgy. Oh, just based on his artwork and different stuff? Yeah, yeah. So the artwork, it's pretty. It's phenomenal. It's like Iron Maiden artwork is the Spider-Man pinball to me. It's fantastic. It just doesn't do anything for me. hmm let's get to uh sounds music call outs music is obviously i mean i can take it or leave it i can not only can i leave it i could put it in a duffel bag and throw it over the damn bridge into a see it just is on a waterfall hitting the rocks and spreading everywhere it is just it is literally not that bad to me like i just and i don't know i think that this is one of those things that split I think it's actually more split towards people who don't really care much for Iron Maiden music versus people who do. I loathe it. But see, I don't loathe it. I can accept it and I would have it in my house and I'd be fine. I'd probably turn it up a little bit and rock out to it still. I didn't say I wouldn't do that. Yeah. But it's different playing a game and hearing music and hearing something go on than literally listening to it in your car and jamming out to it in your car. Don't you think? I think things can be a little bit more acceptable while playing Pit. The lead singer sounds like a cat being spayed or neutered.
    28:01
    That's what I think. It's almost like the lead singer sounds like... Oh, Iron Maiden fans, I'm sorry, guys. I love each and every one of you. It's just we're going to disagree on this. I think the lead singer sounds like a wedding cover, hair metal cover band. I can agree with that. It reminds me of... It reminds me of what I did this morning. I took a ship. Did you ever see that Mark Wahlberg movie It was Rockstar That's sort of where it reminds me of It's almost like an imitation It's like Spinal Tap It's like an imitation of what If hair bands should be I'm sorry I don't want to be a dick I don't mind being a dick But here I hate that music I hate it I'll take a haul in oats I shit you not I like haul in oats I'll take a haul in oats music over this any day of the week. I like Hall & Oates, but I don't know about all that. Absolutely. He's like, you can give me one of them rare Brooks & Dunn bands. The only thing that's worse than this type of music to me, Greg, is that screaming bullshit that kids listen to right now. Oh, yeah, some of that. How does that last? It's like screaming bullshit. Yeah, Iron Maiden. Yeah, it's not that bad for me, but I'll take it. But here's the deal. Here's the deal on the music. Here's the deal. Strong takes. The deal is, though, it is perfect music for pinball. Oh, finally. Okay, yes. That's what I was trying to say. You were looking at me like I was stupid as shit. No, that was just you. That was just how I look at you. But no, it's perfect for pinball. Yeah, I think so, too. I think I'll be able to rock out and play it. Now, it won't touch my iPod. It won't touch my iPhone. It won't be in my car.
    29:46
    I'll Pandora its ass to the next time. And it's a lot like your wife. It won't touch your Winky either. But let's go on. So now let's go animations.
    29:56
    You really give me the negative sides of this thing. I don't like them. I don't either. I don't like them. A couple of them are actually really sick. I like the extra ball. The extra ball is where he rips out. I don't know why it's white. A couple of them are really sick. But something like somebody said, hey, PlayStation 1 graphics, welcome to 2018. And you know what? I kind of agree with that. I'm like, you could have done so much with some of this, and it does feel kind of cheapened, and there's just something that I just don't like about it. And I'm sorry to offend whoever worked on it, because I'm sure that you still worked your ass off on it. Again, this is, coincidentally, this is what this pin is to me. It is fantastic, but it's not my style. It's just not my style. The art's not my style. The animation's not my style. I can accept the art. I can accept the music. I can accept it all. but something about the animations do feel cheap and not all of them again again some of them are some of the coolest animations i've seen honestly like some of them are really sick i think it's an actual it's an uptick for stern i kind of like that direction of saying let's try a little bit more well i do agree that in comparison to their other lcd like i like it better in aero games yes that's what i'm saying so in comparison i actually like this and i still prefer the original license like call me crazy but give me what's on guardians all day over what's on iron maiden all day long oh yeah i like the film clips but again you go back to pirates look at what star wars like look at what dewent was able to do with jjp stuff now i'd rather have oh this is nuts i'd rather have the the animations on pirates i agree four times i agree with iron but that's what i'm saying there's something just off about jp to win about those about those animations we gotta mention him on every episode like like there's just something off about it but can i live with it how at this point in the video how many down votes have we have we gotten oh yeah you start talking bad about our inmate there's that fanboy stuff again you boys coming down keep that click your button under control i know but now let's go to some more positive well most of mine are positive. Literally, my only downfall, I like the art, I like everything about it. It just the animations Toys and innovation Yeah I don know yet because it seems like the toys Have you not seen the game Now maybe not innovation but it seems like the toys are going to be premium in LEs Yeah, so we've yet to really see that. Yeah, which sounds pretty exciting, honestly, on some of that stuff. But, you know, having the four flippers, I think, is nice. It looks like it shoots like a freaking dream. Everything looks flowy. We're talking about toys and innovation. Well, I mean, you know, you got a dot you hit.
    32:43
    I mean... Okay. You'd kind of... I love Greg sitting in this bed. He is fidgeting. Man. There's a... Oh, boy. There's been some other people address this same concern. It was the very first thing after we saw the first stream of it that you had said to me. You said, man, I wish they would have done something with that ramp like Lord of the Rings. Like, it's just... I mean, maybe a vector or something. Yeah, it's like, do something. Catch it. You know? Now, there's a multi-tiered switch system. Yeah. So the center is going to have its own switch, the outer edge is going to have its own switch, and then the exterior is going to have its own switch. Which I think can... I like that. That's what I was going to say. But make that middle switch a magnet. I think that it could end up being a little underrated. I think maybe when you play it and you do like that, that it feels like there's objective to hitting it. Some cool lighting back there. That's what I'm saying. I like that. So maybe it feels a little better once you start hitting those and you light your one ring, you hit it again and light another ring, and it's not so much like, oh, my ball just hit a wall and dropped. We haven't seen the premium LE, but what we do know is that that left ramp through the pops, which is really cool. I love that shot, by the way. It opens up. And it looks like it's not super difficult to hit. It looks like you've got to. It's doable. Yeah, it's very doable. It's kind of Congo-esque through the pops up to the volcano. But you can go behind and lock balls up there. So that's awesome. I love diverters. I love subways and all of that stuff. Circophagus opens up. The ramp opens up. So I'm thinking we haven't seen the premium melody, but that's probably going to be the way to go on this one. Yeah. What was there? Like a headdress and like a mummy with a headdress or something on that ramp that was cut out? Yes. Pharaoh. Oh, yes. Like, oh, it's so awesome. So that's cool. Like, again, that's what's got me. So the toys on the Pro were lacking, kind of like a Star Wars. Yeah. But you know what makes up for all of this shit? What's that? It's kind of like Pirates where I was like, yeah, they didn't get the license. They didn't get the visuals. But it shoots awesome. Yeah. Now, with this, the gameplay, the reason I ordered it, the only reason I ordered it, well, I have to have everything new, but it looks like a killer shooting game. Yeah. Killer. The loops? Yeah. The loop on that thing? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Through the pops? And I still didn't understand code completely. So my hang-up, well, it's not really a hang-up. It's just I'm curious. I can't wait to put my hands on it. Just to, of how you're starting modes, how you're running through modes, how everything is. I didn't get a real good feel for that. So, I can't wait to see how you progress through the game. That was the downside to the stream, I think. Because Elwin is such a competitive player that Homeboy jumped right into, like, here's the multipliers. You hit this loop five times and you get done. Like, hold up. I'm a mode-based player. I'm not a tournament player. Like, dumb it down for me. but how do I start the modes and what's the purpose of the entire game? Yeah. And that's what I'm excited about is to be able to explore it a little bit. It hands down, but I mean, it, it looks so fun to shoot. Yeah, it does. I just, I think it's a pretty machine. I know you hate that artwork, but it's colors and everything. I still think it's a pretty machine. It is a beautiful machine. The artwork is fucking phenomenal. It is beautiful.
    35:56
    I just, not to me. It's just not to me. I can understand that. I can take that, which is, you know, it's, Yeah. It's just not to me. It's big of you to. I like metallic artwork. Dirty Donnie. Fantastic. Mm-hmm. It's just not my grungy type of artwork. Yeah, I can see that. I like Franchi. Give me Franchi all day long. That photorealism with the color pops and saturation. See, I like them all. I like Jeremy's work. I like Franchi's. I love Jeremy's work on Ghostbusters. Oh.
    36:24
    Masterpiece. It really is, too. Masterpiece. It really is. So, but, the caveat here is we've not even played it or seen it in person. No. What the hell do we know, Greg? No, we don't. This is sort of a first impression. That's sort of us being behind.
    36:36
    And that's us not just jumping on the bandwagon. That's us giving you our actual takes on it. Yeah, because it's hot. It's hot right now. So we're going to talk about it with you. You know what else is hot right now? What?
    36:48
    That was my segue. MGC is going on right now. It's over by the time they've seen this. Stern brought like 30 Iron Maiden pinball machines. So a lot of you guys are going to get to have played it. I know because I was so pissy last week. I was like, come on, when's my machine coming? When's my machine coming? And then it's like 30 machines are up there. I'm like, well, no shit. We want to be one of the first people with our hands on it. So we can bring you that exclusiveness. That's all about us. If you guys have any ways, like if you guys are going to get the first of any machine, let us know. So we can come by and get some filming of it. We'd appreciate that. Yeah. But MGC was going on. From what I've heard of the people up there that we've talked to, it's a really good show right now. Yeah. They're really building that show. Oh, yeah. They say Chicago Expo. Watch out. Kick rocks. Watch out. Milwaukee's where it's at. Yeah. The only thing I root for Chicago is just because it's closer. I know. It was too much of a haul for me. I was going to go today. Today, yeah. It was too much of a haul, so I didn't go today. But he wanted to come film with his friend. On my birthday. On his birthday. Yeah. Happy birthday. Like a glutton for punishment here. Happy birthday. I could have hung out with my family. But I let him win on ACDC. And be catered to. Your family catered to you, my ass. I know. but instead I come here with you. You've already gotten to Tiff this morning, bitching at me about streaming and stuff. So yeah, this is what I'm, I really am. I'm like, Hey man, you want to, you want to stream some ACDC? Literally what I got back was no, no. I was like, whatever.
    38:15
    Nobody wants to play. But I streamed it anyways and I have a good time. All right. So you know what we just got invited to? We got invited to something very prestigious.
    38:24
    What's it? Well, besides hosting the Twippies next year, uh, We got invited to the Trash Talkers Invitational. Yes. Blood Bath Invitational, Trash Talkers, something or another. But anyway, I think Chuck Webster, sorry if I'm wrong, but up in the New England area, they do a Trash Talkers competition. For replay. Yeah, but this year they're doing a Podcaster's Blood Bath. So anybody in pinball media, a select few will be invited, and you compile a team, and you put your money where your mouth is. And our mouths are very big. They are. So I don't know if we're going. I don't know if we're going to be able to accept it. I'm going to try to go. We had this conversation. Zach goes, I'm just going to rule it out for you. Yeah, I'm ruling it out because Greg always says he's going to try to go to shit like Texas or like replay last year, all this bullshit, and you don't end up going. Thanks, come on. Man, my life's hard.
    39:17
    It's not always family. It is. It's tough. It's not always family. All you people with kids, you know how it is. Sometimes it has to do with, like, I don't know, certain things. Like, I don't know. certain things on top of your head that are in your skull, your brain does not allow you to go to places at times. It don't. I'm the first to admit. I know. I don't like to leave my sanctuary. This little bitch was like, I think we should go. And I'm like, okay, I have no plans on going, but I'll be the one that ends up going. And you'll be staying at your home and be like, well, yeah. And then we'd have to, we'd have to invite a guest on because we need a third player. So we got to invite a guest on to be able to play with that. You know who we would invite if he's going? Chucky. Hell yeah. Yeah. Chuck Wirt. But I don't think he's going to read it. No, I don't think so either. So I don't know. We're undecided right now. Yeah. But the Eclectic Gamers podcast, you know, Dennis and them. Yeah. I love those guys. That was very good. Yeah, so Dennis and Tony, they couldn't go this year. Are you going to read ours? Yeah. But they roasted, they said, we'll do the trash topicking anyway. So they roasted all the pinball media, all the figures in pinball media. And they wrote something about us. so first off thanks for writing something about us but you know what I'm talking about f*** you for writing what you wrote the only thing I was bad with was he literally had to do a disclaimer like this is just trash talk this is just joking if they got butt hurt like that let their asses be sore for a while if they can't see that this is just a good time but you know what I think some of their shit hit so close to home that I think some people probably did get stuck So if not, go back to Collected Gamers Podcast. They give a terrific show there. So check them out and go to their Facebook page and make sure you follow them. But one of the past posts, they list these out, and it's just phenomenal. So here's what they say. Straight down the middle of pinball show, can they play? They like every game they review, so probably not. Seriously, one host's lowest overall ranking is C+, and the other is a B-. Who is the worst? Was that you? Was you the C-? No, you don't rank it. You are not rated a C, I don't think. You're Mr. Neutral. So what is it with the video gamer 7 to 10 non-scale bullshit nonsense? Can they trash talk? Undoubtedly. Oh, nice. Yeah. So long as they get the approval form signed by their 24 sponsors to permit such liberty. Sorry, boys. Always check with the puppet masters before adjusting your strings. It's so rough. We're so honest and we're so blatant. I love it. So then he went on to say, in the end, we here at Eclectic Gamers Podcast think it is unlikely the JJP permission slip will arrive in time for them to submit a proper application to compete and thus will be a non-factor this year. We suggest you prepare and submit such documentation now in order to make the possible 2019 trash talker. This suggestion is brought to you by Penn Stadium Lights.
    42:13
    The Penn Stadium Lights thing was like my favorite part. I was like, oh, that was like a poem. That was a burn. It was the perfect ending. That was a burn. Jealousy is all I can say.
    42:26
    And if you've watched any of our streams, you know we can't play. Yeah. So my retort back, and we may have to edit this, but it's okay. My retort back to them is just quite simply, the Eclectic Gamers podcast is what straight down the middle pinball show would be like if Greg and I totally gave up on life.
    42:50
    Thanks, guys. All right. Moving on. We love you. Moving on. We do love him. I talked to him at Texas. The most great guys ever. Dennis and I. Dennis and I had like this back and forth banter. I love you. Oh, shit. Okay.
    43:07
    Dennis and Tony, we love you. All right. So, let's talk about the next item of agenda. Deadpool. So, we got a little leak from this week in Pinball that nobody saw. Yeah. Nobody saw. Sorry, Jeff. Nobody saw it. He put it as like an Easter egg kind of thing. and then somebody else revealed a little bitty snapshot of the prototype or the white wood arc yeah I think pinball paparazzi did that regardless we're starting to see a little bit more now here's the truth the truth is we've seen it right we've seen it but we're not sharing no no because that's not right when you guys share shit with us we don't share it no we know a lot of stuff we don't share it no but what do you think what do you think about people showing different are you okay with it you're not okay with that what'd you think about the little image it was of uh it looked like custom art well i thought that we've heard about zombie eddie doing it that's kind of out there as a rumor i think it looks cool it looks like it's based on the comic book what i saw yeah i think that it looks um yeah i don't know how i feel about that uh about the comic book versus the movie thing like uh i'm kind of a comic book nerd but i've never been like a dead i thought you're just a big ryan reynolds fan deadpool fan. Sure was Ryan Reynolds fan. So rough. And I liked Deadpool, the movie, but I wasn't wild about it or anything. Yeah, it was more of a Guardians fan. Yeah, so I think that honestly it's probably a better thing that they went with the comic book. I know a lot of people would refuse that. Well, because you know you're not going to get Ryan Reynolds call out. You know you're not going to get from the film. If you can't get Guardians, you're not going to get Yeah, but the thing is, who are you going to get the voice act for that that's going to have that same swagger and that same smart-ass attitude. I think they could get close. I think they could get close, but I think that that could be the biggest... Because the nice thing about Deadpool is that he's masked. Yeah. So really, he's doing voiceover work anyway, so you don't see him, so you don't tie it to his face, Ryan Reynolds. Yeah.
    45:04
    And as of him being leaked, man, I don't think it hurts anything. I don't think that it... Is it their position? I think... Here's what I think. I think, because we know Jeff at This Week in Pinball, he's a straight-up guy, and he's only going to release what makes sense for him and for his viewers, and he's not going to shit on anybody. No. So he's going to take care of Stern. He's going to take care of Jersey Jack. That's just, but he's respectful. Yeah. I don't know about Pinball Pro for us because I don't know. But I don't know. We haven't released it just because we don't feel like it's our. No, it's not our business. It's Stern's business. That's their design. It looks cool, though. I'll tell you guys that. It's there. It's their baby to show and to give away. I don't think anybody else's. So I kind of have a problem with it being, I don't know. I don't know because. Not the little teasers. I'm fine with that. I like to see stuff that I don't know, but at the same time. Here's the thing. If they don't want it out, strengthen up your security and what you're doing at your factory. That's what I think. But I'm just saying, even if they didn't, I just don't think it hurts you guys, Stern. I don't think so. I think I think it's honestly a little better for you because you know what you're garnering a little bit of talking Garnering a little bit of attention and you know the machines gonna be out here Yeah, I think a little nugget here and there and stuff kind of gets people excited now now if no one knew for sure That it was being produced and nobody knew that yeah, there wasn't even being rumored then I think it's a little I don't know if it's even a big hit then because then it kind of still gets oh shit
    46:38
    You know because if there was anything talked about a Jurassic World pin Yeah, I don't think that's happening. Give me every nugget you got. You're going to burn your nuggets too? Yeah, I'll burn my nuggets. All right, so we got some pin side back and forths that it was hard for me not to dive into. I had to play nice. You dove in a little bit. I did a little bit. Got to get my toes wet maybe.
    47:01
    So I didn't dive in. I didn't dive in, right? No, you didn't dive in. You were actually decent. I checked the temperature of the pool. You were decent. And I said, you know what? Don't want to play in this pool. Yeah, that's kind of another hot button topic too, really. This has got a little nasty. The reselling of new pens, Total Nuclear Annihilation and Houdini. Yes. So the T&A was listed for $8750, close to $9000. There's $6000 base with a $1000 butter cabinet. But people were like, why are you marking up this pen? Because he was getting some profit from it, even after shipping and some of the mods. Yes. We'll start with that one. Do you think it's right? I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If somebody wants to pay... I figured you would. No, because I'm not going to buy the game, and I could wait for the pin. But if somebody does not want to wait, I think they have every right to pay more than what it's going for, a retailer suggested MSRP. I think that it's completely fine for this guy to go, because it's either going to sell or it's not going to sell. That's where I'm at. If he feels that there is a market for it, then it will sell. And I'd rather see something like that happen, because somebody wants the pin sooner than just assholes driving up the market on used games or anything else. I'm gonna be transparent here that's sometimes how I get my pins what is when I when I'm creative to to get them and if I have to pay a little extra sometimes to get it and yeah sitting in line I been known to do that yeah and I think that that fine because I don like waiting you know me I don like yeah I don I don see anything wrong with it in that instance If I wanted a T and I had plenty of money this is a nice-looking T&A with a butter cabinet. I would have bought it. I don't think there's any problem with that. Like you said, if it sells, then it was smart. Listen, I mean, it's literally no different than anything else in society when it comes to concerts, it comes to sporting events, or anything else. But people hate flippers. People hate flippers. But listen, you know what? There's a difference in this. This guy is just moving to the front of the line. Sometimes with scalp tickets and shit, you just can't even see the show. You can't even get into it because they've taken a $100 ticket and drove it up to $400 or $500 for that ticket. Now I can't even go see the show. This was Russell on Pinside. He's been in the community for a while. Everybody's getting out of it. He's getting burnt out, he said, with it. I feel bad. I don't think there's anything wrong in that. Now hold up, though. on the other hand pinball is a community and we're a bunch of guys that love to hate each other and love each other so is it kind of a smack in the face to your fellow brethren when you do something like this especially when you're doing it on pin side it would be different to do it on ebay but you're doing it at our home this is our home I can understand some arguments for that and you're talking people into just buying pins to flip too are you okay with that are you okay with spooky pinball opening up orders and somebody saying i'll take all 500 and then i'm gonna mark them up like are you okay you have to be okay with that then i i don't know i'm mixed on it because you know at the same time i think that's a huge gamble for people um it's a huge loss if they want to try that then they'll get burned they'll get burned one day they'll make a profit off of something but they'll get burned if that's their objective to do is to go into it and some say that when you do something like that you show these manufacturers that they're worth more and then they jack up so that's why we got these that would be kind of some of my nfl tickets same with all that stuff i would agree and i i could i can understand you libertarian you're gonna say right in the middle then what it was your what's your take is no i can understand that point and that that's it i don't like of it driving up pin prices because that's a very good point and it could very well happen um because of that uh have you ever flipped a pin me like sold it for more than what i paid for it buying a pin just to sell it no because i i keep everything i get oh no actually no even my x files i had a real intent on getting that to work i even worked on it i was just saying because buddy you're too genuine to do that you don't you would never do that well profit like money money i've got a nice home i've got oh don't give me this bullshit because i'm to answer, hell yes I have, and I will continue to do that. Because you're a goddamn greedy bastard. I will continue to do that. That's capitalism, baby. I'm going to try to maximize anything I can. I'm not a fan of capitalism. I'm a business owner, but I'm not a fan of capitalism. I'm not a business owner. I think greed can take over. Capitalism is healthy and capitalism is good, but I think greed can get in the way very easily. No, that's bullshit. There's a difference between greed and opportunity. I'm an opportunist. I agree. I will take advantage of an opportunity that comes my way, and I might even work for that opportunity to arise. I'm not afraid to walk away. I'm afraid to walk away from a deal. I will not walk away from a deal. Even if it's a pen I don't want. I've seen you do that. I agree. Do I feel bad about that? Even a little bit? Do I feel bad about that? No, because you're an asshole. Hell no, I don't feel bad about that. I do have a conscience. I'm good to people in general. I will never screw somebody over. I will never lie about anything. But, yeah. If something comes my way and I can make a little money off of it and get to play for a couple weeks, Sorry guys, that's me. It's always gonna be me. Alright, so moving on to Houdini. Now somebody listed one for sale It's like one of the first ones we've seen for sale pre-owned. It was routed It had a thousand plays on it. He had it listed for $6,900 and what we know is that Houdini sell for about $7,000 So I don't know why this was even an issue But some people said it was bullshit that he was asking $6,900 on a $7,000 machine My argument was because the markets high on it You're going to have to wait months to get one if you order one. So this is actually kind of a deal. But this is, yeah, I'm kind of mixed on it. It's like 1,000 plays isn't a lot, but it is, to ask $100 less off the new box. But it's like you said. He said, or best offer. Yeah, or best offer. And he wasn't rude about it, I didn't think, when he said that. No. But I would have put 7,000. But again, I think that somebody would jump on it just because, like you said, it's like I don't want to have to wait for my Houdini. Four months, you want to wait four months? Exactly. And pay an extra 200 bucks? Yeah, like I want it now. It's got 1,000 plays on it. Who cares? He might have tweaked it and dialed it in a little bit. Yeah, I saved 100 bucks. Again, 1,000 plays aren't... That's not nothing. That's nothing. But I wouldn't call it mint at 1,000 plays. No. I wouldn't call it mint.
    53:17
    Just because I know what pinball machines do in 1,000 plays. See, my take on it is different because I'm not a person who has to have right now. Right now. And I am that person. Yeah, I am patient and I can wait. So again... That's what makes us good. That's like the TNA thing doesn't bother me because it's like, I don't care. Every day it bothers me. I don't even want that pin, but I don't have it, so I want it. Yeah, I know. But it's the same thing with Houdini. Like, I can wait. I'm not going to go pay $6,900 for it with 1,000 plays because I don't care about having it right now. I can wait four months for mine. Whereas right when it was announced and I saw it, I put the deposit and started making, you know, interaction with them so that we could go pick up one of the first ones. Yeah. And a lot of work went into that. But again, I understand why people, and I don't think there's anything wrong with him asking that price. Again, he's going to sell it or he's not. He's going to have to come down with it or he's going to be stuck with the thing. So there's this one, I don't want to call you an asshole, but you're kind of an asshole on there. He said, and I don't know who this guy is. I don't know if he's new to it. Oh, the new, yeah, okay. Where he was like, this shouldn't sell for, this should sell on the fives. This thing is used. There's no market for this machine. and that's when the shitstorm started because people are like first off dude who in the hell are you yeah second two thousand dollars off of a new pin that you're saying there's not a market for that there's months behind on pre-order you sell for five grand what are you smoking do you know how many people would just that's when i tiptoed in i said what do you mean there's no market for it like if you order one now you're gonna have to wait till christmas to get one that's that's a market yeah and number two this thing won't sell under 6 500 bucks it's like what we've talked before like like i don't understand i think that because some people don't like it they don't feel like there's a market for but if you go to any show like i was surprised myself people rave people rave about it and i thought that people would dislike it because of it being a show environment you can't play very much it is tough yeah you can't you can't hear it's probably not set up right shots are tight like it takes a little getting used to and i don't you've got to put 20 games on that to appreciate exactly and so that's what i thought in shows people were gonna be like all this fucking sucks oh yeah but everything that we've heard hey man I like that Houdini that's probably my favorite games at the show you know and everything I'm like wow so I thought he was crazy it ended up selling for asking price yeah yeah you know what I'd sell mine for right now you know what I list mine for right now 75 I list mine for eight thousand dollars eight thousand dollars now it's got some side blades got pin stadiums got the different things in it but eight thousand dollars you know why because I think that's where the market's at on them. I think that $7,000 is a hell of a deal. And I think there's enough money in this community, in this industry, that somebody's going to say, you know, I wanted a Houdini, but I didn't get my name on the list soon enough. And I'd like to play it. So yeah, I'll take the $8,000. I'm not going to tell anybody, but I'm going to buy that. So that's probably what I'd lose my net. Yeah. Some people don't care about losing the money. Let's talk about new code updates. CERN's been cranking out some codes now. That means 66 just came out with 0.92 you know who else likes to crank one out me your mother is watching this never expected that one did you no I didn't I'm just lying but I'm not where do we go from there the word crank will never mean the same to that one i don't even know you're probably cranking on 0.922 inches so wrong 0.92 on batman 66 that's got more uh mini villains um so that was cool did you see recent streams of iron maiden i hate bringing this up but the iron maiden streams i've been seeing that center of the play feels dark man i mean it's like any other stern it's dark even jordan jacks are dark yeah i just don't get this argument you gotta have that i've got penn stadium coming on my iron maiden yeah oh yeah you guys can see that let's go to um oh speaking of i'll i'll throw a little salt in the stern wound uh iron maiden full code upon production right full code yeah full code it's like 0.92 yeah so any full code this basically it's further along than most okay Dutch pinball on highway pinball those the overseas companies I haven't heard much no you haven't either okay same old same old yeah I think they Dutch pinball came out with another newsletters hey it's coming next month yeah hey we're coming next month hello we've been hearing that no alien there is a Lebowski Bowen Karen for Papa did they work so bad like I'm not a huge Lebowski fan I like that I think that's one but I do like it a lot and it's like I just want that to work you know I was thinking about this I just wondering these failing company I don't even know if this is an appropriate business action or whether it's feasible but I wonder if it's one or that whether they have to go through I'm sure they'd have to go through relicensing and I don't know what else but like what's the possibilities of somebody like JJP going to my way and taking over that with with with I guess like my problem is it's all completely different mix and everything but is there any way to switch out their mix for their you know what i'm saying in a retool different stuff to me if you can oh what the hell is he talking about now i sit here and listen to this bullshit over and over again he doesn't make sense i'm about to fall asleep please greg shut up take over for american pinball or for stern to be able to do and then start producing those lebowski so here's the problem what are you buying if you're jjp what are you buying well i'm saying like maybe like like and this is what i'm talking about about it would be the art of the i don't even want to fucking say that word that phrase um it would be them taking over like maybe some of the plastics the toys some of the stuff that's already made up um you're taking over the design you're taking over the the concept and you're just starting over no no it's you're you're starting over with mechanisms but you're getting You've got the licensing, you've got the design of the pin, you've got the code of the pin. Yeah, but that company wouldn't continue trying to make pinball machines if they... But that's what I'm saying if they fail. Like if Highways is like, we're... We're out. We're bouncing out, bitches. I think they'd have to redo the license. That's what I'm saying. I want to know what the hang-ups are because I would feel... Well, I would say that I would feel that it would have already happened, but at the same time, we haven't really had an influx of new manufacturers that don't know what they're doing. I think that company, J.J.P. or Stern or Spooky, would just say, let it fail and then we'll just buy the license and do it ourselves.
    60:20
    Or, I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. I would really like to see something about that. And I've never heard him talk about it either, really. Speaking of not hearing talk about something, Chicago Gaming Company still hasn't announced their third Monster Bash. That's true. All that is taken. We still haven't heard anything. It's been a little bit now again. I'm still fine with it. I mean, we know what it's going to be. We know what the game is. We're just waiting to see the cool topper and the little add-ons that they do. That's awesome.
    60:47
    So I don't think it hurts too bad. Hopefully we'll get a chance to work with those guys. I'd really like to. I agree. I love some Monster Bash. All right, what are we going to promote before we let these fine peoples go?
    60:58
    What do you want to promote? I'd like to promote Pinsonati. Oh, okay, Pinsonati. Pinsonati coming up. Yeah. At the end of the year. It's a little ways away. I know with Chuck, we're running that with some guys over in Cincinnati. Super excited. So make sure to go to that. Make sure to check out our other YouTube videos. Share them because that helps us out. And if you guys will do me a favor, we're taking our audio from these videos and putting it onto a podcast. If you're listening to it as a podcast, thank you as well. But rate us on iTunes because that helps out a lot. And another thing that we tried this past month is we released a couple of our videos on Twitch so that you can have live discussion with us. We're going to try to release our top tens and our this or that's.
    61:40
    Maybe anything. Yeah, maybe anything. But we're going with these because they're kind of an argumentative discussion opinion base. We're going to premiere it maybe on Twitch. Yeah, it'll be premiered on Twitch. We're going to be in chat talking about it. A week or so later, then it'll be released on our YouTube. So if you guys kind of want to get an exclusive first look at our this or that or anything, and chat with me and Zach in chat yeah we'll premiere those on Twitch so look on our Facebook and stuff for when that we release those it's a good time talking to us and some people complain that I can't really watch the video and talk to you guys you can always go back to YouTube we release it more yeah I can get your full experience but you get the chat with us and yell at us and tell us we're full of it yeah you get to see it what shows you going to next I'm gonna try to make it down to southern fraud are you laying I haven't decided you'd brought that up and I haven't decided yeah PB you and pinball undesirables been texting me talking a bunch of bullshit battling and stuff like that so Steve even leave him Steven yeah I mean you even are even you even our list Steven yeah so but next time you see me Steven I will give you that autograph you're asking for I just gotta get the 8x10 we got sorry buddy even yeah
    62:59
    I'm going to try to go Southern Fried. I'm going to get like an AA slip and sign it for him. What does he drink? Velvet Revolver? Red Velvet? What the hell he drinks? He's always promoting. Has he got stock in that beer or something? We love you, PBU. Yeah, we do. I do find him entertaining. I do. He's the kind of guy, again, that I don't like. That's why I like him.
    63:23
    Yeah. When I watch him, I'm like, the honesty of this channel. Yeah, he rubs me wrong. but I want to be around him. So do chiggers. Yeah.
    63:33
    We love you guys. And thank you all for watching. Look at our Facebook, like us on there, follow us on there. We got some good information that comes out. Take this week. Love you guys. Hard take. You hit it off with a bumper. Nice. Straight down the middle.
    63:48
    You had a fling with a fling shot. You're rolling out the alley dog. Oh, Your mama needs love. What are you drinking? Ginger ale? Yeah, you don't have all that caramel coloring in there.
    64:10
    Cancer calls the nature. Why would you add caramel coloring? They do to Pepsi and stuff. They don't do this.
    64:16
    Yeah, but that tastes like shit and Pepsi tastes good. It tastes delicious. Check and see if that's recording.
    64:24
    That's our tilt meter. His luck is waning. It's like he's weenie. It's green and it's little. It's like he's weenie.
    64:34
    Like they have.