you're listening to the head-to-head people podcast find us on facebook email us at head Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 113 and my name is Martin and with me... Joe Lemire. So, there you are. Yeah. Hi Joe. Yeah, I couldn't think of anything clever. I was waiting for something clever. You were like, okay, I'm going to say something clever when you say and with me and that's what I got. I know. Well, you didn't give me time to think. So I was like, you know, I was going to say like, oh, you know, better than Ryan or Ryan's or Jelly or something. I don't know. But you miss me, Martin. You miss me, Martin. I missed you a lot. Where were you? What's going on? Last week I was just in Pennsylvania the entire weekend and didn't even have any time to do anything. And, you know, and now I'm just doing it. Were you on roller coasters again? I was, and dealing with Leslie. Did you see on Facebook the post about Leslie's phone? Yeah, she dropped it in a boat ride type thing. Yeah, it was great. So that's a $1,000 phone. Did you get it back? No. Nope, haven't heard back yet. At the time, they had said that they were going to drain the ride on Monday and hopefully get it back, but that has not happened. So who knows? and insurance has been awful. If you go in to put in the information for my phone, it comes up and you can pay and that's it and they overnight you it. You put in the information for her phone and it errors. So we had to... She went to Best Buy multiple times. They gave her the run around. They're like, no, you have to call. So then I called and they go to put in the information and then, oh, it seems that it has to go underneath review for seven to ten days. I'm like, okay, wonderful. But you don't have a phone for that time Nope, she still doesn't have a phone and she's not going to have a phone for a while, it seems So, we're going to get on to pinball, right? Because there's stuff that we need to cover this week But, I just want to go back to that point So, your two, I believe, your two big passions I mean, obviously, Leslie, just in third But your two main passions are pinball and roller coasters Is that right? And board gaming So, it's really, it's the big three Oh, it's the trilogy Yeah But do you travel around America going to theme parks to go on roller coasters? Is that the case? Not as much big travel. We kind of were regional. We haven't gone travel too much to go to parks not relatively close to us. Like when we're in Pittsburgh, we'll go to, you know, like for Pennburg last year, we went to Cedar Point. A couple of years before, we did Cedar Point in Kings Island, which are in Ohio. this year we did Kennywood which is in Pittsburgh and then you know so then we traveled to there's a special Halloween events that are happening this weekend and last weekend at two different parks well last weekend was Knoebels and then we did a day at Dorney Park which is in Allentown which is in the same place where Pinfest is and then this weekend we're going to Dorney again for a special Coaster Madness event and then on Monday we're going to Great Adventure in New Jersey. So, yeah, we haven't really traveled. Although we have already booked our flights and planned with Carl and we are going to Indisk and then we're going to go to Knott's Berry Farm, Magic Mountain, after Indisk. So, not that. So, bringing it back to pinball, if you don't mind, do these theme parks have pinball machines at them? Some of them. So, like, Knoebels had... Let's see, they had a... I'm pretty sure that's pronounced Knoebels, just letting you know. I don't know. Just like your gay-rage. Which I make fun of every time I play Full Throttle, and then I hear you say it, and I go... But they had Star Wars, Game of Thrones, Theater Magic, and Monster Bash, and a Twilight Zone. So we get to play that some. I took some money from Nick on that. And I took $60 from him in mini golf, which is super fun. Bucket. Yeah, exactly. Dorney doesn't have any pinball. When we went to Hershey, they had a couple new games. They even had a Star Wars Premium Edition there. So it's very hit and miss. Oh, well, okay. So obviously, you know, you weren't here last week because, you know, not available. Leave me in the lurch, whatever. So what are your impressions of the Star Wars comic edition? That's true. I didn't get a chance to talk about that. I hadn't even prepared myself to talk about that this week because I listened to you guys. So this is like off the cuff. Tell us what you think. Join the me. Boom. So good at doing things right when I need to. So, I mean, I think it looks really good. I think it I'm not a person who hated the original art because it's just you know it looked like the movies and I'm not a huge Star Wars person so it looked fine either or mine but the new art definitely looks a lot cooler it's more colorful there's a lot more on the play field you know it does remind me of the Data East like you mentioned up but I don't know if that was if the Dead East was also based on, I guess, the comics, which I don't know anything about. But I think it looks good. Well, I wouldn't say it's based on the comics. I think they're just using a comic art style. Okay. And so if you go comic art style for Star Wars, well, that's what Data East Star Trek looked like. Star Wars looked like. So you're kind of going to just have those similarities just because, you know, an art style is an art style. Yeah, so I think it looks great. And I guess that's one less thing that, in theory, people can stop complaining about with Star Wars. But I'm sure they'll come up with more. I still think it's hilarious that the topper is still not out. I was just going to say, still no topper. I guess I would say there is a whole different type of approval process when you go... Well, because if you think about it, the difference is you've got art, right? And art really is a picture. Even though it is in a physical unit, being a pinball machine, all you're really approving is what the art looks like. When you've got a topper, it is actually an object. So it's an object in 3D, which has different dimensions and it has a different presence. So I reckon it's just a much different and obviously harder approval process to get a physical item approved than art. And, you know, if I go into a shopping, we call them centre. I know you don't. You call them shopping malls. We call them shopping centres. If I went to a centre and there's a lot of, usually one or two, let's call them pop culture stores or shops, right, that will have those kinds of items. You'll have, you know, figurines, you'll have Game of Thrones stuff, you'll have Walking Dead stuff, all that kind of stuff, and you'll have Star Wars. And so if they have a Star Wars figurine, that figurine needs to look exactly like the original. And if it does, bang, LucasArts or whoever it is that has the rights will go, yep, it's approved because it looks exactly the same. And if you think about the topper, the R2-D2 topper, it's not actually R2-D2 in its entirety. It's just the head in this other sort of unit, which I've not seen in any other type of Star Wars merchandise or figurine. So it's something new that needs to be approved. Yep. And I think that, you know, and it's of a character. So I think, like you said, it falls under that, like, figurine, models, all that stuff, which is a completely different animal. And like you said, it has to be exactly the same. And I assume it makes noises. So then you're also dealing with the voice, the quote-unquote voice of R2-D2. So then that has to get approved. So, I mean, this is a perfect example for everyone in the audience to realize making pinball is hard, but also licensing is a nightmare. and this is exactly what can happen. And they have an awesome relationship with Disney. So it's like even with that and how great of a relationship they have, they're still dealing with this crap. So it's like it doesn't matter. They've probably got a really good relationship with Disney for the people that approve art that goes on pinball machines. But this might be a completely different area that deals with 3D objects, the figurines, if you will. I'm sure it's a completely different pipeline with completely different people. So, yeah. Well, I don't know, because people have said, well, hang on, they approved the TIE Fighter on a spring. Well, yeah, the TIE Fighter looks exactly like a TIE Fighter. There's actually nothing that's been, you know, adjusted to that model for it to not look like a TIE Fighter. That's exactly what it looks like. So, you know, it's easier to get something approved when it looks exactly the same because R2-D2 is just a little bit different. I think that's why there's some holdup. But I really don't know. But, God, it's been two years. Yeah, it's a good guess. I mean, it's just, I mean, that stuff like that happens. I mean, it's the same reason, you know, Jersey Jack couldn't make translates for Wonka or have any kind of merchandise that was Wonka-ish, like they have been able to do in all of their other games just because, you know, the licensor said no. So there's nothing you can do about that when that happens. Anyway, so we digress. That was just a point that we didn't have on the show notes. I was just keen to get your thoughts on it. Obviously, you know, we've spoken about Elvira as well, but it was good to see that Elvira's, the limited editions have been shipped this week. And I saw on social media that people have actually started receiving them. I can't remember what it was, but there's one in an arcade or a barcade in the US that's already there. So, you know, it's out there. Go and play it. There's lots of streams. The more I see it, the more I want to play it. Yeah, I definitely want to get my hands on one because, you know, like you, it's the same, like, pictures looks good. Hold judgment. See video. Looks great, but a little rough around the edges. I can't wait to get the finished product in front of me and flip it around and see and hear it all. and it's just like Batman and anything else. I want to get my hands on another Lyman eventual masterpiece. Yeah, and look, I said this before, I guess I'll say it again, but the proof will be in me actually playing it, but what I said was, because it has such an open layout and it's a fan, it's a fan layout, it's the fanniest of fan layouts. now that I've seen some videos pop up of gameplay that's kind of interesting in that it then just becomes more about the rules and so far from what I've seen they're great rules so I can't wait to play it to see if it is going to be as enjoyable as I think it is I think it will be I think so too speaking of new machines again I'm really off my game, but Big Lebowski? It's not really a new game, is it? I leave for a week and all of a sudden your buttery transitions are gone. The hell happened? Did you catch something with Ryan? Obviously, what happened was you left me to go on roller coasters, so don't do it again, is really what we're saying. Sometimes you've got to try out other rides to appreciate the ride you have. Oh, you're calling me a ride. How dare you? I mean I will take it as a compliment anyway so Big Lebowski so a couple of things so they are producing machines I think you know I've seen some people receive theirs I think they shipped three more this week and they're going to aim for about five a week but you know they say they have got parts for 24 games so if they're doing five a week I don't know what's going to happen after four weeks once you've made all the games you can but I do know that they've got all the tools they can produce all the parts that you know, ARA originally made so you know, I don't know maybe that five a week is they can now make five a week including all the new parts, I don't know I mean it's good news and maybe, you know, like you said they're in that many of weeks, they would have acquired enough to keep going after that at that pace, that'd be cool I'm glad they're making them, I would really like To have one, somebody here get one. I haven't played one in years. It's a great game. Well, funny you should say that because I did see, I think I saw a note that the, see, I played it at Sunshine Laundromat in New York or wherever it is, Brooklyn. Is it Brooklyn? Yeah, I think it's Brooklyn. God, that was, God, that would have been two years ago. That was Pinberg, not last year. No, it was actually the last Papa, Papa 20, whenever that was. And it's been down out of action for a long time. But I've heard that Big Lebowski, now Sunshine Laundromat, is back in action. So get there. That's only about five, ten minutes away from you, isn't it? Oh, it's super close. East Coast? Yeah. Yeah. But that's probably, I don't know, I'd have to guess four-ish hours, maybe. A drive for you? Yeah. Oh, dude. Seriously. a drive to the nearest city for me well the nearest city I think from Melbourne is Adelaide which is 8 hours so I think you've got it good yeah but that's how long it takes to get to Top of Maine so it's fine ok ok sorry we're digressing here guys but that's New York right now you probably go New York you know I can go there anytime so whatever Like, four hours to go to New York for me, that would be amazing if I could do that. I would make a weekend out of it, every weekend. Well, how far are you away from your New York over there, Sydney? Well, Sydney is nine and a half, ten hours. Yeah, I know. But we are, I don't know if you've ever seen, but our country is freaking huge. Yeah, it's really big. massive and there's really only six or seven maybe eight i don't know main cities here so it's it's a big distance between them yeah clearly Robert Englunds had a lot of bad people and they needed a lot of space for them well it's such a big island they could like well you know what those people that stole bread you can go to sydney those people that robbed a bank you know we'll send you down to Melbourne. You know, those people that may have stolen a horse and cart. I'm assuming that's what it was 200 years ago. You can go to Perth. Dump the tea in the river. Yep, that's right. So, anyway. So, whatever. Okay, so let's talk about Pinball Expo. Are you going to Pinball Expo? I am not, although I suppose I should be. So, okay, distance again. How long would it take for you to drive to Chicago? Geez, drive to Chicago? Yes. Let's see here. I'll ask Google. Google Maps. From my location to Chicago, it takes... Hey, Google, how long does it take to drive from Massachusetts to Chicago? 15 hours. with light traffic it will take you 15 hours and 14 minutes to drive from massachusetts to chicago oh gee thanks google that was a lot quicker than me going and uh yeah you know as much as we use google on this on this show and stuff like that i really gotta i don't use uh that on my phone i really should learn how to do that well so last week right at the end of the podcast i talked about the fact that I can now turn on my pinball machines using Google. So I can just say, you know, turn on Wizard of Oz, turn off Star Trek, etc. So since then, I've now literally put a Google Home device in almost every room. So I literally walk around and just tell it what to do. Yeah, we have Alexa, but I do not have Alexa in the game room, which is this room. I had Alexa because we've got one of those Sonos One speakers where you can choose either Alexa or Google. I've moved to Google now. Alexa, I think, is a bit rubbish. Just putting it out there. Anyway, Pinball Expo. So it's coming up. In fact, it's a week away. So October 16th and 19th, even though the 16th, which is the Thursday, really is the sort of opening night. It's a big event. And we know that, you know, over the years, it kind of got a bit rubbish, I guess, is probably a nice way of describing it. And then last year was the reboot. Yeah, sure, we can probably call it that. And everyone said it was much better. I mean, the distance of quality between Texas Pinball Festival and Pinball Expo became quite big, and now that gap has been bridged. So it's in a week's time. And as is tradition, let's just do a bit of speculation on what we think is going to be shown there. All right? Hmm. So let's start with the manufacturers. Let's – Stern. What do you think Stern are going to do? Do you reckon their next cornerstone will be there or – No. No, of course not. No, of course not. There's one big reason why I think they won't reveal a new machine. What do you think that is? Because they just did Elvira and they're going to wait at least a month. and the last time they didn't they do it like a couple days after expo yeah yeah they well that was yeah tpf they released they revealed the machine like i think it was black knight two days after tpf um really it's because cassandra peterson is going to be at expo so oh yeah that too why would you do that yeah that'd be ridiculous yeah correct so for those people that are wondering, I don't think it's going to happen. You'll probably see Star Wars, the Comic Sans edition. Yeah, that one. Jesus. I heard all that stuff. I've never gotten that deep into fonts. Apparently there's a whole meta game in there for what you have to different. You know, there's actually I believe, I'm just going to look it up now, font movie. I believe there's actually a movie about like Helvetica or something. I don't know what it means and whether it's a murder mystery. Helvetica movie. People need to know the answer to that. Yeah, it is. It's an independent feature-length documentary film about typography and graphic design centered on the typeface of the same name. It's true. It was released in 2007. Huge hit. Yeah, massive. if you're into fonts there it is but anyway keep going their big thing there is going to be the Star Wars art outside of Elvira obviously they'll show off and everyone will get to see the new Star Wars art and that'll be the end of it so if you think about TPF they had I don't know maybe 16 Munsters machines there so I think I don't know I guess because Elvira is not a cornerstone game they might not have as many but they'll have a huge presence no doubt they'll have 15 plus machines there well you know what I think is they're going to have a curtain there or a tarp covering what looks like a pinball machine and just get and if they're listening this is what you should do if it's possible and then you just leave it there and later on you make this huge deal and what it is is they pull off the sheet and it's like a clear cabinet and inside the cabinet is the Star Wars topper. And it's just like, boom! There it is! There it is! And they just make a huge deal out of it because everyone has made a huge deal about it. And then everyone will complain like, why is that? Why did they make such a huge deal about it? Because you guys have been up their ass about it for years! Yeah, for a long time. And that sounds right up like Zack's wheelhouse of just trolling. Yep. So also, so just on that as well, you know, oh, look, you know what? I'll do it just very briefly. Social media watch. Social media watch. So did also note that there was, I guess, a semi, let's call it an announcement. But effectively, if you think about Greg Perez and Dennis Nordman, when they did Woe Nearly, it was under the company name Whizbang Pinball. right? So I saw this week on Facebook that effectively there was an announcement that made it says a virus house of horrors is not a whiz bang product per se, but Dennis and I and Lyman sheets are very proud of our latest creation at Stern pinball. Lyman told us he wanted to work on a haunted house style game. So we thought maybe Cassandra Peterson would like to join in the fun as well. And then, you know, they say, come along to expo for the big rollout. So there you go. Yeah, I think Dennis posted that, right? Or at least he shared it on his Facebook page. Well, I would say because it says, I would say, I would say because it says, Dennis and I, I would say that I refers to Greg Fraze. Yeah, yeah, meh. I'm just using a bit of logic on you there. Sorry. Don't bring your Australian logic over here. I think it's actually global logic. Logic has jumped the shark here. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the news. And facts. We will be getting into pure speculation in no time. Don't worry. It's going to be so buttery. It is. So anyway, summary for Stern is they will have a big showing of machines that are available right now. Nothing new. That's my prediction. I agree. Look at our cool art. So then what will Jersey Jack have? at Expo, do you think? You know, that's interesting because they've still continuously said that they will reveal or hoping to reveal you know, new game Guns N' Roses. I'm always going to do that. By the end of the end of the year, so I mean unless I'm missing something, which you know, I mean I'm not that huge into like the traveling scene. There's no other shows or anything until the end of the year, right? Like this is the last pinball, big pinball show? I would say so, given that we've only really got a couple of months to go. But will they? I don't think, I don't know what they'll do. I don't know whether they will have a new machine there or whether they will just reveal and show maybe a screenshot or maybe a promo video. That's my prediction, is that if they are going to announce Guns N' Roses, which we've been told that it's next, either that or Toy Story. It's definitely Guns N' Roses. I've heard it's definitely Guns N' Roses. I've heard it's definitely Guns N' Roses as well. I would love, I would love for them to do a proper reveal and have the machine there. If that happens, JJP will win Expo. Not that it's a competition, but it is. Yeah, well, I mean, Well, yeah, because it's the reveals at the show, whereas Stern doesn't do that anymore. They do the big reveal online. Well, yeah, they don't need it. So it's like they don't care. They don't need to win this show. That's not what they did. They had the huge launch already, and then it's, you know. But, yeah, I mean, well, because their last games they've revealed with the actual game, right? like I believe pirates when they revealed pirates they had the physical game and then they pulled off the thing so and I think they did the same thing for Wonka So I assume that that now what they do because I pretty sure he mentioned about how he wants you know, he wants to sell the game within a couple of weeks. At least that's the way it would do with Wonka. So I assume that's going to carry on with these. So I imagine that... Well, there you go. So just on that, right. So just on that, that means if they go according to all the other plan methodologies that they have, which is when you reveal a machine at these shows, have the machine there, and then also be able to ship within a couple of weeks, because that's what he said. It's first of November. Right? So that means they've got to be really far along production, or at least have production ready to go to start getting this machine shipped out, for that to be revealed. And, you know, these things could happen. It could have been, you know, six months in the making and they're ready to go. Or if not, then maybe they'll hint at it but won't do a proper reveal. Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, we know it's Eric's next game. So, I mean, he's had – when was Pirates, like, finished? Like a year or so, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I – So, I mean, he's been on it for a while now. Well, okay. So I remember, so I sort of said that it's PAX this weekend, which it is. And two years ago, PAX was when we had a Pirates of the Caribbean that we were streaming then. So that's, you know, 2017, end of 2017, that was revealed. You have a PAX over there too? Yeah, well, I think, yeah, I think we've still, I think it's the only PAX outside of the US maybe. But yeah, in Melbourne, PAX Melbourne, I think the last five years we've had one. I'd like to get to PAX Unplugged, which is the one in Philly, I think, at some point. But it just hasn't worked out. Yeah, I'm not going to be making it this year, mainly because I've got my tournament in two weeks, and I am so far behind. So I'm spending a lot of time this weekend just getting back up to schedule. Well, if you didn't spend so much time with Ryan, you wouldn't be so far behind. Just much. Anyway. Yeah, super jelly. all right so let's quickly move on from this very awkward situation um so i i think that they could i mean they they could i think they could reveal it i mean and saying that we will ship games in two weeks i mean that that's not saying we're going to ship all the games or we're going to ship 100 games they don't have to ship a game technically two games because that's games so i mean no but they do technically have to be able to start shipping in some sort of number within a couple of weeks i'd say because you know if if people are saying you know here's my money shut up and take my money here it is and there's hundreds or thousands of them then they need to start shipping i guess within a reasonable amount of time yeah so if if they because they've always revealed at a show. So it's either, I would assume that if they want to do it at a show, it's either now or never, and I guess if not, they wait till TPF next year. Okay. It'd be interesting. Do you think it's likely that they will reveal, or do you think unlikely? I would say 60% they reveal. Okay. I would say about that as well. It could go either way. You just don't know. yeah that's that's uh never know with them um so let's move on to spooky so we believe that the next game coming from spooky is scott denisi's next machine so do you think it's going to be revealed at expo doesn't it have to be i mean like they've they've been taught constantly talking about how they're pretty much done making both of their current games so that means the next one has to be now doesn't it in theory yeah i i think if i was a gambling man i'm not but i would think that yes i think that they're going to reveal in some form i think they're going to show their next game yeah because i mean then because i can't remember the exact numbers but they had said that TNA's definitely done, and then Alice Cooper, they said, would be done by I think, what, it was like the end of November or something like that, or December. So they never take orders and then immediately start shipping. Plus they have their new Fang Club thingy, so they've got to figure all that out with the new game. Yeah, that's right. They haven't come out and said we are going to start shipping our games within two weeks of reveal. So they can reveal with less pressure and yeah i i think they will i don't know in what form whether they'll show a physical machine but we know that this has been in development for some time um and i think they're hoping to get it out by the end of the year so i think you'll see the machine that's what i reckon yeah and you know if it's a scott denisi game and we all saw the the groundswell that happened when that game was shown. I think people are anticipating his second game. Yeah. So, yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean, they're in such a good place to be in a company. They don't have any of the pressures of any of the other manufacturers for the most part. They don't get the criticism. They seem to be very immune because they're so small. So they're not held to the standard of Jersey Jack and Stern. And they don't have to worry about – because people just go – if it takes a long time for their games, they just go, well, they're small. And they only – everything is just – they can just be like, well, we're small. We're a boutique game. I think we mentioned a long time ago there was that movie, Things That Come Up in the Night, the story of Spooky. I think that was a stroke of genius as well. I mean I don't think they intentionally did this to get this outcome. But if you've seen the movie, and everybody, I do encourage you to find a streaming platform that has the movie. Because what it does, it tells the story of how hard it was to get this pinball company up and running. And you can't help but feel their plight. And so that, you know, is now evergreen. That feeling, like, you know that they went through hell to make it where they are now. So let's just be grateful that they're still alive. So that takes pressure off them having to deliver like the other companies do. Yeah, there's really no expectations. I forgot that that movie existed. I have to try and find time to watch that. It's really good. It's really good. So somebody let me know what streaming that thing is on. I would say go to Google, but that's just me. Eh, but Google only listens to you. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know what? Here we go. I'm going to make a note in the show notes, things that go. Bob, you can hear me type in the night movie. That way I can link it somewhere. There you go. Show notes, man. Yep. That's what I've just done. So there you go. Okay. So how about CGC? Do you think they are going to show a new machine? you couldn't see my inverted commas there when i said new so because what we know is obviously they've made remakes but we believe they are going to be doing an original game an original licensed game i should say yeah which um yeah because you can't say like cactus canyon isn't necessarily a licensed game at least not by the definition that people pinball tend to say that it's licensed so um i know it's it's it's an actual new thing and then there's cactus cannon those are the only two things that apparently are are in the cards the order who knows seems like the original one is coming first but yeah who can really tell with them yeah well do we think they're gonna have anything there i my my my guess is no i don't think they are gonna have anything revealed no i don't think so either just because of i mean the the debacle with monster bash and when how that was supposed to come and then it didn't come and then it was that way for literally in a year it seems like um at this point i i would never bet any kind of money or take any kind of speculation of what they're gonna do because they've they're so all over the place i don't trust that they're gonna just like be able to pull that off i if i had to guess it'd be tpf Well, yeah, look, but you're basing that statement on, obviously, history, which, sure, it's the only evidence that we've got. And really, the evidence of Monster Bash was probably the most difficult. So you would expect that they're going to learn from that experience. But, you know, previous games, Attack from Mars didn't have that much of a problem. And, you know, Medieval just sort of just came out. I mean, I'm probably forgetting all the dramas that have happened with those machines, but they sort of just sort of happened somewhat on schedule. But Monster Bash was the real weird one. Yeah, because that has licensing while the other ones don't have that. But these other... Well, it's got licensing within a license in that with the original game, well, with Medieval Madness and with Attack from Mars, You've got licenses being the people that own the original IP of Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars. With Monster Bash, you've got the people that have got the original IP of the pinball machine. And then you have Comcast. Is it Comcast? It is. Comcast owns Universal. Monsters or whatever it is, yeah. So you've then got to deal with those people as well. Which, if any of you have ever had Comcast, you know how hard it is to deal with Comcast. What's Comcast? uh they're uh the a big uh you know cable internet provider over here that has purchased everything i think these are the ones that um bruce from slam tilt he's a big fan of he likes them i think this is the one that had a real problem yeah it's not as big of a problem as the one that yours which you know we'll talk get to that later but maybe if you actually have internet access By the fact that you actually sound good, I assume you do. I do. I do. We can get to that. Yeah. But, yes, those ones have it. So the reason why I don't think this is going to be smooth either is that you have Cactus Canyon, which is being finished, rumored. So that's hard. And then you have an original, which is harder than anything. So both of the presumably next things are potentially harder than anything else they've ever done. Like, Monster Bash is, you know, red tape and just being like, well, we have it. Can you just please sign off on it? Whereas, you know, finishing code and getting code right is a lot harder than that. And obviously, making a whole new one is way harder than any of that. Well, that's right. And it is a new one with a license. So if they said, you know, we're doing a completely original game and it's unlicensed, well, at least you don't have to worry about licenses. But you've still got to then create all your assets. So it's still probably about the same amount of work, but one of them would be easier but just longer than having to do with the approval process with a license holder. Yeah, it's so funny that it's original licensed. Yes, because it's them. Well, yeah, I guess, I mean, when Stern releases a new machine, you don't say, well, they're releasing an original licensed. they're just releasing a license but with cgc you've got to make the distinction between a remake and an original yeah because that's what they do because that's what they've done so anyway i would be i would be surprised if we see something from cgc i'll put that at 10 or less yeah i would even less than that i just yeah i would agree um what about american pinball So they're due a new machine, aren't they? They are. And I know a little more about that than most people, but I'll talk about it. But I think that they probably have a pretty decent chance of potentially saying something. What are you saying, Joe? How many percenties do you think you're going to give them having a reveal at Expo? I think it's, I'll say 60%. Okay, I think you meant to say 90%, but you're now trying to cover up what you know. That's all I'm saying. Eh. Ha ha ha ha ha. That answers it. No, well, I know more about, like, further in the future, because I might know somebody who might be working on some of their stuff. Oh, interesting. But, yes, I mean, their third machine is, when did Oktoberfest come out? Was that TPF like two years ago? I think so. Yeah, that sounds about right. So we do a new machine and sort of, I don't know, remember they had the four sort of themes that they had trademarked? Yeah. I think people are sort of expecting. Sherlock Holmes. Well, that's right. I think people are expecting that Sherlock Holmes is the one that it's going to be. I don't know whether that's based on fact. don't do it well that's I think it's based not necessarily based on fact but wishful thinking of those four themes and Robin Hood was one of them the other one was Valkyrie yeah I can't remember the third one but of all those Sherlock Holmes it was Poker Run Poker Run that's right which apparently is not what I thought it was because I talked to Chuck about it and because he it was the car racing thing yeah which I didn't know that that's what that was yeah I didn't either at the time I was saying you know based on a card game? Well, how many machines do you think have been produced ever that were based on card games? A lot of them. A shitload. Like, a shitload. How many card games have been successful ever? Well, Mustang? No. Corvette? We like it, but was it successful? No. Like, Mustang didn't do well. What about Viper night driving? Wow. That's going way back. Terrible game. I don't think I've ever seen that. Oh, I've played it. It's the one that's got the glow-in-the-dark balls. Yeah. That's one of the deities. I think it was a Sega. Sega. I know we looked at it as part of one of our thingies. Yeah, it's just a very boring, uninspired game. Very generic playfield, generic ruleset. But it is still very cool when you've got glow balls. so maybe that's what was missing from cosmic uh carnival globals uh see that's that's where it all went wrong so i had all the other things you mentioned so maybe that's what the missing part was yeah oh yeah i'm just trying to think of car based games i mean you've got things like Grand Prix or NASCAR, you guys, that one, you would call that a car, even though it's a race car racing. Did that do well? No, I don't think it did. It also came out at a time when we were at the slump of pinball. I would say that of all the car themes, I imagine the one that's ever done the most or the best was Grand Prix. Because I know that that killed when that came out. Yeah. But that was a long time ago. Well, I'm just trying to think of like, well, you've got Indy 500 and Corvette. Well, yeah, obviously high speed. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's more of a blended theme about, you know, escaping police rather than the car being the centerpiece. Yeah. But I mean, I think that's probably the best ones that did the best. Yep. But yeah. Anyway. So. Oh, well, there you go. So American Pinball. I hear cars are big in China. Ah, we're going to get to that. Okay. We're going to get to that. What about Multimorphic on the P3 platform? Do you think that they will show a new playfield or minigame? I think definitely. Yes! I think the answer is definitely because, at a minimum, it could just be software that shows off a new game using the existing playfield. yeah but i i think that they're definitely i mean they're due for the next lexi right yeah so i think that that's definitely definitely coming so yeah i would think it's weird because it's like it it most of the big ones it's it's curious to decide or to figure out you know what companies are picking what shows because it seems that everybody tends to go with tpf as like the place to do your thing. And this and Expo were so close to each other. I'm interested to see where someone just decides to go, you know what? Let's do it at Expo. And just skip or push off doing stuff at TPF. I think that that seems to be the one time of the year where every manufacturer goes, that's when we're going to do our big thing. So it leaves an open door for lesser manufacturers to just be like, well, then we're going to be the big one at Expo. So it leaves the door open for Metamorphic to come out with something, the next big thing. So I think you're right in that, you know, some of the stuff that we've seen, like, I think Heads Up was really the last sort of game that came out, I think probably using one of the existing platforms like Cannon Lagoon or whatever. but if you think about the two main like oh um inverted commas again full game that came out that really has a play field you're talking about lexi light speed and the other one is is it cosmic kart racing oh that was a full that was a full one too i haven't seen that unfortunately oh god god it's good it's good but it's not it doesn't go by the rules of pinball Meaning, having modes or multiball with jackpots and all that kind of stuff, it doesn't. Lexi does, to an extent. Cosmic Kart Racing really is like Mario Kart with a playfield. And does that have its own flipper upper part arrangement? Yes, it does. And it is one of the most spectacular looking things you'll ever see. Just the LEDs on the ramp that change colour. Oh, it's so good. But it's still not your traditional pinball. So I think that if they're going to come out, they might come out with a proper Lexi game. I don't think they will. I think more so we will see another minigame, either new software that utilizes the current playfields or another minigame like Cannon Lagoon type thing or the baseball one. Yeah, I'm trying to find pictures of what the heck the playfield looks like for Cosmic. Ooh, wow. That is a lot of lights. And you should see it in action with the video. It just looks amazing. And as I said, because it really is Mario Kart or a kart racing game, like a video game, best played with people at the same time. So, you know, when they link four of them together and you play side by side, it is just so much fun. Oh my God, that sounds amazing. Come on, you get four of them at Pentastic or Replay or something. I want to play this thing. Yeah, I think there was four of them at TPF. So, anyway. Everything comes back to TPF. Yeah, I know. Okay, so moving on to Deep Root. What do you think they're going to show at Expo? I have no idea. Nothing. So, they won't. Because they're sort of saying the whole Houston thing, I think, was in there doing their non-launch. So I don't think they'll have anything at Expo. Oh, they were talking about a different show. Okay, then, yeah, no. Yep. So I reckon they'll have a lot of people there. I just don't think they'll actually have a stand or a booth or anything. I think their main presence is going to be Steven Bowden winning the tournament. Yeah, I would say so too. And lastly, Haggis. Do you think Haggis will have their machine Celts? Haggis? I know you know nothing about him. Every time I mention it, you're like... Is this something that's going to be in the cafeteria? Ha-ha! I see what you did there because haggis is the food. So, yes, haggis will be revealing Celts. I know it for a fact. I've seen it. I've played it. Well, that was a few weeks ago. But I've also seen on social media that they've actually got it boxed up and it's being F-rated over. So go along and say hi to Damien and to Greg as well. So, you know. That's right. We break news first here on Hedger. We do. Well, the fact that you can probably go to their Facebook page and look at it there. Yeah, but nobody went there. They came here first. That's true. But, you know, go over and say hi to the guys. They're just putting so much effort into it, and they'd love to hear your feedback. So that's it. I don't know. That's it as far as reveals, I think, are going to go. So, anyway. There's everything. That's still a lot of stuff. Look, the other thing is, when you go to Expo, there is a huge schedule of events. Like, massive schedule of things to do. Like, seminars and tours and trivia and tournaments and stuff like that. And I just picked out... What? We forgot one thing. What about... I don't remember the name of the company, but what about the one that's making the kingpin thingy? Maybe they'll be there and actually show off more kingpins or something. Yeah, Circus Maximus. Yeah. Is that the name of the company? Yeah, it is. Oh, Circus Maximus. Oh, making the circus. The original one. Yeah. I don't know. They've been quiet for a while. They have been quiet. They are still a thing. And I think they're just trying to – one of the biggest steps when you are making a pinball machine is going from prototype to production. I think they're still trying to nut out the production side of things. They're going to nut it out? Oh, that's not a thing. That's a – I don't know. Not over here. You don't say that? No, and it has a completely different context than what you're using. No, I can understand what you're saying it means, you know, a reveal of some kind. that's clever good job thank you um thank you and also uh that completely threw me it threw me off like the train i was on um just made a mess of my brain just splattered everywhere um the uh what was the oh yeah maybe we'll see pinball bros maybe pinball bros will just show up and be like, hey guys, here's Punny Factory. Yeah. Wait, are they the one behind Punny Factory? Yeah. Really? Yeah. I thought that they... Oh, no, no, sorry. No, I'm getting confused. That's that other company. They were the Highway people, right? Oh, yeah. Highway that became Pinball Brothers, which, yeah, no, I don't think... They've gone to ground. Maybe Thunderbirds 2. From Home Pin. Yep. Maybe they'll name their second game, This One Doesn't Suck. Yep. No, sorry, it was Pinball... What is it? Pinball Buzz or... Oh, I thought it was Pinball Bros or something or Pinball Brothers. No, so Pinball Bros. Pinball Brothers. Yeah, Pinball Bros. Or Bros. Or Bros. You know, when will I be famous? You know, sure, whatever. So, yeah, they are the people that, you know, stole everybody's money, took everything, like literally just pillaged the highway pinball factory and just took everything over and maybe we'll get something. But no, we are not going to get anything. No, I'm talking about Pinball Adventures, also known as Pinball Buzz. They're the ones that... They're very funny. Yeah. Honey factory. Well, since the pinball community is listening right now, if Pinball Brothers ever resurfaces, you need to treat it like whack-a-mole and knock them back down. Make them go away. Exactly. Unless they sell their shit to someone else and someone else makes aliens and other stuff. Wasn't there a rumor that someone might be making an alien? I swear I saw that somewhere. Well, I think the rumor is that Pinball Brothers are going to be making them. No, I saw that another company might be making that Somebody I don remember so I not going to talk about it but I pretty sure somebody sent me something about that But never mind There you go. Moving on up. Moving on up. So the schedule, I've just – a couple of the things that I – if I was going to be there, these are the seminars that I would go to. So I would do the Stern Tour, even though I've done a personal Stern Tour with Zach Sharp. Thank you, Zach. I would still do it again because it's a group of people. Like, buses go, and it would be good to experience it with a lot of people. I was invited for a personal tour by Dwight, so I could get one too. That's on my bucket list that I would love to see that place. Yeah, it's good fun. So the seminars I'd go to, American Pinball Talk with Josh Kugler and Joe Schober, mainly because I've met Josh a couple of times now. He's a freaking awesome dude. dude and i played uh at pinberg i played against joe show but and he is just the loveliest guys and i you know i want to know whether they're going to reveal something and joe showber is the person who's behind our league site for uh that papa does all the league stuff so he's awesome he's a really good guy um i would also go to john yelsey's seminar which is called pinball art before pixels. I don't know. Just because it sounds like cool. You like pixels? You're into pixels, are you? Yeah, if you're into pixels, go to that one. Pat Law is doing a seminar called Modern Pinball Design and Engineering. I reckon that'd be fascinating. Mods and Innovations Over the Years from Todd Tuckey. I couldn't give a shit about mods and innovations over the years. I just want to watch Todd Tuckey. Todd Tuckey. I just want to be entertained by Todd Tuckey, right? Am I right? Then you've got the Elvira House of Horrors launch event with Cassandra Peterson. There's also the making of Black Knight with Steve Ritchie. The making of Jurassic Park, Keith Elwin, Rick Nagel, Joshua Clay, Harrison Drake, Danai, and Jerry Thompson. Awesome. Good. Yep. Then there's also another Elvira House of Horrors seminar with Greg Ferrez and Tom Capera, Dennis Nordman, Lyman Sheese, Jerry Thompson, Chuck Ernst, you know, lots of people. That would be a good one. Cassandra Peters. yeah she might be there as well who is that moderator is that the guy yeah that's jonathan houston so yeah it's yes do is that that guy no it's not who's that guy he's from pinball news oh no he doesn't know jonathan no jonathan so sorry pinball news martin ayub i think uh jonathan houston is the pinball magazine oh anyway he's awesome too many people i know um and then you've This one would be great. Team Bally, a reunion of the Bally family with the Barry family. Bally family. That was hard. No, no, no, no. You leave that in there. All right. I'll leave that in. Whatever. So Tom Neiman, Billy O'Donnell, Jim Patla, Dave Christensen, Gary Gaten, Wally Welch, Ward Pemberton, Dennis Nordman, Greg Kmeek, Greg Fraze, George Gomez, Paul Faris, Claude Fernandez, Kevin O'Connor, Tom Wurz, Ken Kupitz. I'm not getting any of these names. I know three of them. Yeah, I know quite a few of them, actually. That would be really fascinating. What the heck is that even going to be? Is it a family reunion? Everyone's just going to be like, hey guys, I love you, I miss you. No, I think they're going to tell stories about back in the day, what it was like, and they'll just share experiences. Because there's so much distance between that and now, I reckon they could be quite candid about some of the stuff that went on back then. yeah i'll be like remember when we killed pinball because we'd quit yeah good times yeah they'll be like hey great times when we all got sacked wasn't it let's do another 2k and then the last one i'd go to obviously an evening with jersey jack so i'd love to catch up with jack yep he's gonna cap it off i'm like yeah Guns and roses, bitches. The Slash is just going to jump through the door. Slash will walk out and go, yeah, where the fuck am I? He'll just casually walk in and sit down. And then people will be like, uh, what? And then they won't address it. They'll just leave it there. And then they'll reveal the game the next day or something. But imagine if that. Imagine if Slash did walk in and just sat down. People would be like, um, have they played like a lookalike or something? Yeah, and then he doesn't address it. They don't talk about it at all. People are asking questions, and he's just ignoring it, and everyone's ignoring it and just pissing off everybody. It'd be hilarious. Yep, absolutely. So anyway, so there you go. There's also tournaments going on at Expo, so flip out. I don't know. Is flip out one of those tournaments that's capped? No idea. As in players? Yeah, I don't know. There's a kids' tournament. There's bells and chimes women's tournament. And there's also the Horror House Fest Pinball Tournament of Death. Wow. What is that? I need to know what that is. I don't know what that is. I've literally just been reading a flyer, which you know. Is that just ultimate stakes? Win or die? It is. So, oh, it's sponsored by Spooky Pinball. Stern Pinball, Pinsire, Bloodshed, something. I don't know. I'm looking at now. Here we go. So dark. Here we go. You ready? I am ready. Seventh year anniversary of one of Bloodshed Dead Bath's weirdest and wildest interactive pinball attractions to be found nowhere else. It's all ages and unlike any other haunted attraction, it's going to go down at Pinball Expo. Can you handle it? Play in this epic haunted pinball tournament for glory, prizes and pure joy. Sure. Imagine walking into a haunted themed gaming tournament where each area is styled after the pinball machine living within it. a haunt cade that now lives in its seventh season and is possibly the only experience of its kind in the entire world. Okay, that sounds cool. Play in the four-hour flash tournament of terror. Win amazing prizes. Terror. I think it's just... I think it is... Oh, you know what? There's a video here. I'll link it in the show notes. I think it literally is you are playing pinball in horror-themed rooms with people dressed up as horror characters. So. Wow. Cool. Could be fun. Since you mentioned terror, I'm just going to throw this out there. You need to watch The Terror. It's horror. It's a TV show. It's amazing. Okay. Moving on. Awesome. Thank you. The last thing I want to note is that I did note on the Pinball Expo schedule that there's actually going to be a very interesting game there called Air Command. and apparently it's a hydraulic pinball machine. And that's the picture of what I've put in the show notes. So I'm just going to link it to whatever I can when I do the show notes. It looks interesting. Because someone said, how can we make pinball more complicated and harder? Yeah. Let's use air power. Hopefully it won't blow up. So there you go. So that's enough on Expo. I don't know. Get along, guys. If you can get there, get there. If I could get there, I would be there. I can't get there, so won't be there. Neither will Joe. Even though Joe could get there. Yeah, but still can't get there. So this is a podcast about not being able to get there. Yeah, okay. Because it can't get there. There you go. So, now, Joe. Martin. Social media watch. Just another mini one. I saw on Facebook. Really mini? You didn't even get that? Yeah, no. So, I saw this week something that I think is very cool. And let's file this under, why hasn't this been done before? Yeah, this is like when you see all the stupid crap on TV, that you're just like, well, I've seen it on TV, and you go, why didn't I think of that? Yeah, exactly. So, this is something, it seems so minor, but it's actually very cool. And that was, you know, Deadflip's been putting together his homebrew game, and he's got this really cool left drain save, I'm calling it, which, I don't know, for those people that know what a bang back is, it effectively simulates a bang back, but you get to do the proper bang back. It's very cool. Yeah. Describe it, Joe. pretty much it comes down the left out lane and that if you have it lit presumably that switch engages a up post that is like right underneath the flippers but it's up high enough that when it hits it it's going to pop the ball back into play if you hold the left flipper you'll pop it back into play onto your right flipper yep which is effectively a bang back without you having to bang the machine it's a post bang back it's kind of like what is it? Xenon sometimes does that too. I think where the post is on Xenon, if it has a rubber on it, can sometimes do that as well. Yeah, and I think there was wasn't like Fireball 2 has something similar to that as well from Bally? Anyway, one of those weird things. Anyway, it's cool. I'm going to link it. I want you to check it out. It's just a little clip, but I just literally looked at it and went, huh, why hasn't anyone done that before? That is very cool. Well, and another thing that I noticed that is the opposite of this is, I can't say for sure, but it seems that Jurassic Park has an anti-death save modification to it, which I think prevents you from death saving on it. Which I don't know if Keith came up with it, but if you notice on Jurassic Park, there is a post in the right outline that when the ball drains, it hits the post and deadens to the point you can't... Yeah. Death save it. Yeah. I did notice that. It just really slows the momentum of the ball down. Yeah. And I've never seen one there before. Yeah. I checked. I was surrounded by tons of other Sterns, looked at all of them like, no, that's not a thing. So I don't know. I think that that might be a little thing of saying, don't death save on my machine. By Keith. You know what? There you go. So some more innovation from Stern. Like, you know, obviously we talked last week about the music going into the machine. And you know what? Here's another one for you. Guide rails in the shooter lane. So, you know, one of the big problems that we've had over years is when you put a ball into the shooter lane, over the years, you start getting, you know, dents in the wood. Indeed you do. Well, maybe there's a patent there for metal guide rails sort of along the groove so the ball actually doesn't hit wood, it hits metal. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things, it's like, why does there even need to be wood there anyway? Right. Well, anyway, what I'm saying is that was another patent I found last week. Anyway, whatever. Dude, we're so on top of this shit. I know. I just thought I'd reveal that. It's not even fair. I know. Anyway, once you see it, you see everything, is really what I'm saying. This week in podcasting. This week in patent reveals. Yeah. So, anyway, speaking of reveals, I don't know. PinQuest is now available for you to download via your smartphone device of choice. So I don't think it's available in Australia, but we've talked about PinQuest before. Are you excited about PinQuest? I am. I wish that there was a way for me to use it soon-ish, but I don't think I'm going to necessarily be near a Guardians of the Galaxy within the foreseeable future. Well, actually, no, at Critical Hit, Chris has a Guardians of the Galaxy, so I'll be sure to make sure that I beat that score. Put it on the app if it lasts until November 16th, which I don't know if it does. So basically for those people that are hearing this for the first time. Yeah, I'm kind of talking as if you know what this is about. Yeah, so effectively it's an app that allows you to go to certain venues where each, like, machines will have quests. Like, it'll either be, you know, get to a certain score or do something and you use the app to record all your things and, you know, it's very cool. But you've really got to be able to have venues that are signed up. They pay, like, a monthly fee and then they can put their machines up on the site. So it's very cool. Yeah, it's kind of like futuristic, like, ticket redemption. but for pinball it's goal redemption yeah another thing news just in breaking news um it's only i'm saying this because i forgot to put it on um on the show notes we need a breaking note breaking news sounder i do i'm gonna have to do that one next time jeff teolas send us one send us one please or pd if you happen to know him well it's the same person hey no it's not so do you remember that, so if you remember Brian Allen, who was the guy that did the original, I say the original, but he did alternate Translight for Alien which I don't think was ever used. He then did an alternate Monster Bash Translight. So it was amazing, right? And so the Bayside Pinball Club that I go to, even though I'm sort of on a break from tournament play, he also did, oh do you know what, it was a really fun attack from him. He actually, he did the logo for Bayside Pinball Club. So when I was at Pinberg this year, and I happened to be on the first day walking along with my Bayside Pinball t-shirt, this guy looks at me and goes, hey, I designed that t-shirt. And I went, oh my god, you are Brian Allen, I know who you are, and took a selfie of course. It was actually me taking a selfie, not someone taking a selfie with me, which was kind of cool. Anyway, he's a Freaking cool guy. He did a Monster Bash Translight. He's now done an Attack from Mars alternate Translight. And I'm just telling you, I think it looks freaking amazing. Yeah, it looks cool. I saw someone posting it saying, get this man in pinball. Well, yes. I know. So he's actually going to have that available. Well, I don't know whether it's going to be available to purchase, but I know he is going to be at Expo, and I think you can buy them maybe at this stage. There you go, yeah. So the Attack from Mars Alternate Acrylic Backglass, limited edition, $225. Attack from Mars Alternate Translate, $125. So I think it looks amazing. So when you're at Pimble Expo, go and say hello to Brian Allen from Flyland Designs. His art is sensational. I love it. Excellent. So there you go. Just thought I'd put that in there. So big update for Dialed In. New code this week. Massive. The whole game is different. I don't think there's actually any noticeable change to it. But if you feel like having the latest code, go and update. It's different in your mind. It is. So, can we talk about IFPA? Can we? We can. Before we get into some of the details, you are currently 36th overall in the world. And I'm dropping. And 73rd on the Power 100. I just thought I'd check before I... Yeah, which I used to be 44, and then Intergalactic ran up to me and kicked me in the nuts. Yep. Yeah. And if you look at my rating, since you're on my profile, what is my rating right now? Long gone. And I looked at your profile and put it in the show notes. So it was 27th, and now it's 164th. Yeah. So intergalactic. Bow, bow. Yeah. Wop, wop, wop. But also, speaking of whoppers, player of the month was Colin Urban and all-time record for one month. 407 whoppers he achieved in one month. So that was literally for just coming out to Australia. Crazy. So, you know, guys, good ROI. I told you to come out to Australia. We had five or six people come out. That's now what's on offer. Excellent. But that's not why I'm bringing up IFPA. The reason why I brought up IFPA, Joe, there's a couple of bits of news this week. And one, I don't know, is it true? What's happened here? You tell me. That the IFPA leadership is getting a whole lot more soulless? Oh, stupid. Oh, or red, I guess. Canadian. I guess. So, basically, we had a people profile this week. Hi, Jeff. And it was episode 222. So, you know, yes, hilarious. Josh Sharpe needs to be on because, you know, always coming second. Yep. So good. Always. Never first. Never. In a major, anyway. and basically what they were saying is that Josh is no longer going to be the president of IFPA and pinball profile is going to be so Jeff I was waiting throughout the whole episode for them to go haha it's just a joke I still don't know is it true what's happened it's not true of course it's not true but I mean at the end he was like ah screw you I'm keeping pinball profile so I guess that was their way of saying that it's not true yeah um but i think what was really interesting about this episode was it was kind of i don't know for for us okay this is getting probably get a bit profound maybe i'm overstating it but really what that whole episode was about was jeff saying well if i was president of ifpa this is some of the stuff that i would do and really what was really interesting was then Josh would say, well, okay, have you considered this? Okay, no. Have you considered that? No. Okay, so it's great to have these ideas, but when you put these in practice, it's far more complicated than you think. And the reason why I sort of make that statement is because if you think about all the stuff that we want in pinball, and, you know, in history I'll say, you know, when Jersey Jack started coming out with LCD screens, everyone was like, oh, Stern, why is it taking you so long? well because these things just aren't easy for people to go bang done there's process there's technology there's testing there's business plans there's commercial models there's all this kind of stuff and that's what was really interesting about this episode was a couple of really i don't know i would say good suggestions from jeff saying i i would want to do this and just going well you really haven't thought about it because it's a lot more complicated than you think. Yeah, it was just kind of like, you'd be like, I want to do this, and then Josh would sneak behind him with the reality stick and go, no! Because it's just like, like, no, yeah, yeah, this is just, non-surprisingly, you can't just do this stuff and then not realize the ramifications and how hard these things are doing. You know, there's a reason why Josh doesn't do some of these things. There's a reason why Josh does some of these things. I know. And then people would say, well, okay, you should tell us why you can't do them. And Josh would be like, you know what? If I stopped and told you every single time why I can't do one of your suggestions, I would have no time to do anything for the IFPA because there's just that many suggestions that come along. And I'm sorry, but, well, you know what? I also relate this just to pinball manufacturing as well. When people sort of go, oh, you know, Stern, they should do this, or Jersey Day should do that. It's like, these people are clever. They've probably already considered it and have probably, if it's not there, it's probably not going to be done. It's very rare that you can come up with an idea or suggestion that these people haven't thought of already. Mm-hmm. Yep. Although, I must say, I would do anything for a Jeff and Josh podcast. I would love that. It would be so much fun. I could care less about the other episodes he does. Whenever I'm like, oh, I'll get to that maybe eventually. But when I see that Josh is on, I just go, stop what I'm doing. You need to listen to this right now because it's just always so good. It is. It's really good. So anyway, listen to People Profile. It's hilarious. But what is actually true is that they've actually now announced a women's advisory board. Now, this right here is absolute gold. Makes sense. Glad you're doing it because if you really do want to understand what women want, I know this is going to sound a bit crazy. Why don't you get women together to tell you? What are you talking about? I know. That's a crazy notion, isn't it? So they've actually now got a women's advisory board. I think that is an amazing thing. And well done, guys. If you really want to understand how to include and grow that side of the business, well, give them a platform. Yeah. As a general, this country is just realizing that maybe men shouldn't be making decisions for women in politics. So that's finally where we're getting a lot more into the process to be more representative for that. And also new rules are going into effect for behavior, which if enforced, will legislate some people out of the game that I know. well so hopefully it does yeah I had been meaning to sorry Ryan he asked me like six months ago to do almost like a code of conduct for pinball in Australia just because it wasn't really there and I think I did see the code of conduct that came up from from Papa I think it was and I think it could actually extend a bit further but it's also things like you know anti-competitive behaviour I guess is probably where you start really getting into the grey areas. Just don't be a dick. Just don't be a dick. Like, oh, you lost your ball. Oh, so sad. You don't need to scream obscenities and just run around and just be like, it's just like, guys, it's not all about you. Just stop it. Yeah, but it's really hard then to put rules around what would be constituting disruptive behavior. Yeah, and you can put it in there all you want, but it all comes down to the TD. If the TD doesn't, you know, it's up to the TD discretion of whether or not they're going to enforce stuff like that. So I know me personally, I've had to enforce such behavior here and there a few times. So I'm certainly going to enforce that, as I always have. That's just that if people are screaming and swearing and stuff, that's not that is not an inclusive behavior to have. it's distracting, it's rude, it's unsportsmanlike. There's all sorts of different boxes that that checks. Okay, but let's just talk about screaming, right? Because obviously there's a rule that says if you scream out offensive language, well, that's, you know, you're now over the line. You know, something's going to happen. The ban hammer is going to come. But if you think about right now, you're in a tournament and you're playing a machine and somebody right next to you is playing the game. and it's not like they drained the ball, but things happen and they scream out, come on! That's really distracting, but what can you do about it? So I've actually had to rule on that once and that really comes down to what happens to the people around them, right? So if a player, if they scream or whatever and the player next to them, you startle them, you scare them, they lose the ball. If that player decides that they're going to bring it to my attention. A lot of players will not do anything. But in that case, if they talk to me about it and they mention it, then I'm going to warn the other player. Okay. I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying, Joe. Sounds amazing. Here's my problem. My problem is if I think about all the tournaments that I've watched online, we're talking Pinbergs, we're talking Papas, we're talking, you know, any of the championships and the finals with the top-ranked players, how many of them scream whilst they're playing? A lot. Well, I guess it matters. Where's the line? Yeah, I know. That's why I'm saying things like that are really hard to put in writing because where's the cutoff? And, you know, what's the tolerance that people have of it? That varies. So it's really hard to write that stuff down as in what's acceptable and what's unacceptable. I think... It's completely up to the TDs. Oh, so that's right. So that's why I think for TDs, if you are listening, when you are starting a tournament and you're giving your announcements, that's when you talk to people, the group, about what's accepted and what's unaccepted behavior, and then everybody's on the same page. Yep. Which I will get a chance to do tomorrow. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Here's the full one. Social media watch. Ta-da. Ta-da. awesome so this one this one is all about Stern This is our third dabble in this I know, right? So, this just came up today as well. So, if you remember when I had Gary Stern on the show, amazing interview, he was amazing. He was in China at the time. I think he might have been in Shanghai, and he was there to do an expo. Well, they are there again at the China Import and Expo Fair in Guangzhou. And they have one, two, three, four, five, six pinball machines at this exhibition. You've got Jurassic Park, Deadpool, Munsters, Star Wars. Spider-Man. Spider-Man and Mustang. Mustang. Go for it. Go. So Mustang seems an interesting one, doesn't it? Yeah, you know what that means. Oh, Vault? Mm-hmm. No, it doesn't at all. I mean, why would you, if you're in an expo where you're literally there to sell stuff, why would you bring games you can't buy? Well... I mean, if someone walks up to that game and goes, this is great, what does it cost to get one of these? And they go, you can't have one. Well, okay, so... Unless they have a lot of them. Full speculation mode, here it comes. You ready? So if they are now trying to break the China market, maybe they might have a separate production line because they've got a back catalogue to get out there. I'm speculating because of Mustang, but we were talking before we started recording, why Mustang? That seems a bit odd. It's not odd because China loves Americana. and Mustang is, you know, from the outside world, just very American. It represents everything American. So it makes a lot of sense to have Mustang there. Will it be produced? Who knows? They may have a whole new production facility in China producing these machines for that market. Yeah, that would make sense. Or they just, I don't know, maybe they just have a ton of those premiums. It just seems really odd to show a game that then if someone loves, they can't buy. Yeah. Whereas every other game in this row is in production, except for that game. Well, Spider-Man? Yeah, they're still making those. I think so. I think it's still on their website as under production. Let's check. Let's do some fact-checking. But, you know, they're trying to break the market. They're trying to make pinball a thing in China. so display what's going to get people interested is what I say. Whether you can buy them or not, show people what's going to appeal to get them excited about pinball. It is... This is a completely different format from what they used to have. Yeah, it's so much better now. Thank you, Zach Sharp. No, I guess it is not. No, I didn't think it was. I mean, it was a vault, remember? so a vault has a limited shelf life so as far as production cycles go Batman's still in here and so is Guardians yeah so anyway Star Wars is here twice so maybe it just literally replaced Spider-Man it could have because they had to add one enjoy your time at Stern everybody and Gary's over there so good fun go get some mustard All right. So, Joe, is it time for you to tip your top 100? I guess. Okay, here we go. Hey, Google, pick a number between 1 and 100. Here's a random number, 8. Woo-hoo! Deadpool. Deadpool, hey? That's great. That game's amazing. Do you know it? Oh, what the hell? Oh, I know everything about that game. Well, not everything, but... Ah, damn it! Pirates is tied with Lord of the Rings again. Ugh! Bad pinball people. Oh my god, they are too. They're both equal fifth. 8.713. Wow. Every week I come on here. It's been two weeks, so I didn't see the update for this before. All right. There you go. All right. So, for me, the obvious... Before we get into rules and how you attack it, thing to note, everybody, about Deadpool is it's one of these games which has just absolutely gotten better over time just through code when it first came out people were like i don't really get it doesn't really necessarily like the rules and you know the right ramp it's all a bit of a clunk fest blah blah blah blah and over time a couple of things happened the the rules got better the code got significantly better but also what people started really appreciating is the layout is actually quite genius and i say that because that's actually me stating that not everybody's opinion but i think it's genius i think it's a fact because it is not about your direct shots some of them are very satisfying that left ramp when you nail that oh god that feels good if you get the right ramp which is the you know the right the right entrance to the upper left ram when it just gets over the top you've talked about it many times joe how satisfying that feels like it's like it's not going to get there but yeah now it got there that feels good but it's more so about the rebounds it's the the ricochet shots that you get on that game are what makes it a sensational game coupled with great rules it's fantastic it's all amazing I'm going to say that this is Gomez's second best game okay so yep Lord of the Rings obviously being his first yeah blah blah blah duh I mean come on people let's not get crazy here okay so go go Yeah, so on your plunge, you've got two options between the upper skill shot, which you have to select pre before you plunge, and you can't move it. So that's mainly the only time I tend to do that is if the ball save is off. That's the only reason I would consider that skill shot. Besides that, you hold in the left flipper. It goes around to your bottom left flipper, and then you have to one-time it, although you don't have to one-time it anymore. Now you have like five seconds or so. You can actually catch it, then take a shot at it if you prefer. To go hit the katana ramp, and that gives you a super skill shot. Five million points. So that's what you're doing when you enter the play field. And then after that, there's so many options. Do you want to go quests? Do you want to go battles? You want to go get yourself some Berserker Rage. When you want to use your little Deadpool. If you want to go do some dancing. A lot of stuff going on for this. But my personal strategy is, first thing I do is, so when you start the game, your battle is always lit. So that's at the scoop. That'll get you into the regular battles, which gets you your Sabretooth, your Mystique, and your Juggernaut, bitch. Although that's like the bad version of Juggernaut, so I probably shouldn't say that. So those are your three options for the battle. And then one of the coolest features, which I tend to forget games, which I've been told in the past, but I don't remember other games that have this, like, doing stuff around the game to boost how good your modes are before you enter modes. So that's what this game does. You can get team-ups with your other X-Men who are on the playfield. So then you can bring into your battles to help you defeat. And they give you bonuses and they help you defeat the monster and more points, etc. So on the left orbit, you get Dazzler, I believe. So you can hit her. All of these, on the first attempt, on the first time you do them, it only takes two shots to get them, I believe. I think it's two. Possibly three, but I think two. So you hit each of these shots two times, and you'll get that person. You'll see their life bar go up on the DMD, and their blue triangle in front of their shot will go solid. to signify that you now have them for their team up. So you get Dazzler in the left orbit. I believe that she adds time. And then you have Wolverine up the center spinner. He does more damage. Then you get Colossus, which is that weird hook shot that's behind the left ramp. I believe he doubles your points. And then the right orbit is Domino, I think is her name. and she gives you, I think, a super scoring or something. I'm not overly sure what exactly that means, but I think she gives you that. So those are your different team-ups that you can bring into the modes. And that just gives you more points. Well, it gives you exactly what they all said. So then you can start your battle, pick one of those three, and then you get that bonus for that particular battle. If you beat them or you lose your ball and you drop out of that battle, you then have to recollect them for your next battle. So they're only one time things that you have to farm between doing each of the battles. So when you're fighting those battles they're pretty simple between which ones are different. The easiest one is Sabretooth. You just really hit the spinner and upper pops. That's just a switch based one. He's easy. Your next hard one is Juggernaut which you have to hit the side targets and then hit some shots. You have to stun him and then so with that i recommend playing going for your little deadpool in juggernaut so little deadpool is the the center bash toy area there's three drop targets and if you get behind the drop targets and you hit the stand up target you have to hit that twice it'll start blinking which means it's ready to start your uh mode so then you hit it again it'll grab the ball plunge another ball in play and then you have to hit the drop targets to lock in your hurry up value and then start that multiball. So there is a small amount of time that I believe that if it's sitting in there, you can still get into battle and start a battle, but once you've unlodged that ball, you're stuck just playing that and you're not in a battle. So best case scenario, you want to start a battle. I recommend going Juggernaut with him and then you want to get in there and get that so you can run them all together. because Juggernaut is the most dangerous one to play because it requires you spelling dead in pool to stun him. So it's best to do that in the safety of a multiball. And then the last one is Mystique. She just requires a lot of shots, starts up the middle, and then goes to the ramps, and then goes to the orbits. I think she has the most... She tends to be hard to get towards the end. Well, and it's also one of the ones that I've watched people sort of don't know how to start because it really is one shot to really start opening up the shots, and it's the spinner right at the very back, so it's not as obvious as it would seem. Yep, and if you bring teammates in, those teammates count as mode shots. So say you brought in Dazzler at the left orbit, if you hit that, that counts as a shot towards whatever mode you're in. So that's also something to reminder if you have issues with a certain shot and you know that this thing, I can't hit the middle shot for whatever reason. Well, then you can bring in a team up and you can just pound that team up over and over again to eventually defeat that villain. So and then back. So and then Little Deadpool is a little Deadpool is a two ball multiple. And the first stage of Little Deadpool is you just have to keep pounding Little Deadpool. I want to say five times. And then after that, it'll go into the second stage, which lights all the shots. And then you have to X amount of shots. And then that will go to the third stage. So and each stage is worth progressively more. The second stage is worth a decent amount. The third stage is worth a lot and should not be ignored. So the third stage is it'll light the capture again. You hit it, it'll hold the ball, and then it lights the spinners for very big value. So then pretty much once you do that, you want to hit the spinners as much as you can. It's worth a ton. And then after you've completed the third stage, it wraps back around at a higher value. So that's not something to sleep on. I didn't really know that originally, but now since I know that, I actually actively try and get to the later stages of Little Deadpool more than necessarily doing. I've always just used Little Deadpool just to do other stuff. It's a little cheap, easy to get into multiball. I've always just done what you've done, and that is to use it for a mode. Yeah, which now I do it during a mode. But the very first thing I'm doing is I'm making sure I get into the second stage. and then I'll go to the mode because then now mode shots equals shots and I'm already there anyway. And if it's Juggernaut, you're just going to get that by accident by hitting stuff. So the second stage is really where you play Little Deadpool and you play your mode at the same time. And then the third stage, you drop everything you're doing and spinner no matter what you're in. So that's to keep in mind for that. So then I guess we'll continue with the Little Deadpool. So then the second Little Deadpool is Little Deadpool Frenzy, which is a single ball mode, and it's a, what it sounds, it's a frenzy mode, and the more that you hit Little Deadpool, the more the frenzy is worth, and if possible, this can be a massive amount of points, is if you can stack Little Deadpool 2 with Berserker Rage, which you get from just getting X amount of shots or spins from Wolverine, it'll start a spinner round as well, so those two together, and if If possible, you can also start Disco, and it's massive amounts of points. But if you can't do Disco, then it's not... Actually, I'm not sure if you can actually stack that together. But I know that if you play those two together, like last weekend when I was playing Jurassic Park, I played some, and I got like 50 million from playing those two together. Just those two. No modes, nothing. So it can be worth a lot of points. And then stage three is, once you get in there, it's called Little Deadpool Bounce, I believe it's called. And you start that, and it starts roving a target through the Deadpool letters. And I believe that that target is worth like $10 million a shot. So that's something that's great to run during a multiball. And that's all the Little Deadpools. And then it cycles back around like Vengeance on your favorite game. Star Trek, obviously. Yeah, obviously. So, yeah, so that's Little Deadpool, and then that's your battles. Then you have quests, which are, you can hit the right orbit twice, or, no, once to light your chimichangas, and then you can hit shots to collect chimichangas, and then that will punch your little card, which eventually lights with quests, and then you can play T-Rex or Megalodon. T-Rex is pretty much hit shots to build up a collect hurry-up at the little Deadpool, and you just keep doing that. You can build it as high as you want to cash out as much as you want, and then eventually you beat T-Rex. Megalodon has all the shots lit, and then there's one shot that's worth more, and that's pretty much what that mode is. If you complete the top three battles, you get to fight Sauron, which is a multiball little wizard mode. And then if you complete the bottom and then the top again, and you get another Sauron stuff. So that's the wizard modes. Let's see. Oh, and then you got ninja multiball. And for the battles, the way you light battles is by spelling dead on the left. If you play a battle and it's not lit again, it's because you have to spell dead. And then you have pool, which lights your locks on the katana ramp. I believe it starts with one lit, and then you have to complete pool one more time, and that'll light two. And then you hit the three locks on the katana, you start a ninja multiball. So that is pretty much shoot shots, which is kind of like annihilation on Attack from Mars, minus the fact that when you hit stuff, they unlight, and you have to collect it. So you can hit the other shots, and then you have to collect the super jackpot at the katana ramp, and then it will relight everything, and you do it all again. So that's pretty much what that multiball is. If you can, you want to play that multiball with a quest, if you can. That's always useful. What else? What else? If you hit enough spinners on the left, you get disco multiball, which is like 120 spins or so. So you got that. And then... Isn't there a mech suit multiball or something? Yes, so then you have mech suit, which is combos, which build up to collect weapons at the scoop. So every shot you hit gives you weapons, and combos give you more weapons, and there's a white circle that lights at the scoop, which you can collect, which gets you to mech suit, which I think you need 50, no, 45 weapons to start mech suit. and that is very similar to Ninja in the fact that you're hitting shots to build for a super, and then you keep hitting them, and then it'll light a super at the scoop, and you put it in there, you get a super, and then you do it all again. And then another thing that's important during all your multiballs is if you spell dead and pool twice, you'll light your mystery, which in multiballs is an edible. So that's super useful. Other thing is you have the Colossus bonus, which is you hit that shot and it builds up over time, and then if you hit the Colossus and it comes out and hits that little stand-up next to Deadpool, a little Deadpool, you get a big bonus, which can be good, but it's hard to do on purpose. And then you have your Shink, or Sneak, or whatever. I don't know what it is. But if you hit the... Yeah, so then there's a stand-up right next to Wolverine that if you hit that and ricochet up the side ramp, you will get a play-filled multiplier. which is 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x. It's timed like most of other games, so you can use that to build that up and cash in big points. And then the other important thing to know about multipliers is that if you get to the second... Ah, I lost my picture. If you get to the second... Get to 100 weapons, you get a permanent 2x multiplier that lasts through the rest of your game. So that's also really good for big scores. You got your boom letters, your inlanes, which if you collect those, like VIP passes on ACDC or smart missiles and all sorts of stuff that's on all the other games, it will give you whatever shot you need. So that's booms. Top lanes are your multipliers, which can get really big. If you have ninjas, which pop bumpers randomly light purple shots around the play field, hit those. They're worth ninjas in your bonus. and then also if you hit the right orbit and on the fly nail the katana shot you get ninja apocalypse which is worth 20 ninjas which is huge for bonus and yeah because your bonuses weapons ninjas and chimichangas so if you get those and get those multiplies at the top you can get a lot of big bonus I think that's everything well is it though oh there's regenerate too which you can get as a ball save on the left which I think is getting Deadpool three times, spelled, I think. What about Mr. Sinister? I've never gotten there. So that's, I believe... Because every time I've gotten close, it's been during a tournament where I was pulled off the game because the next round was starting, which has happened three times at Chris's house. But I think you get, you beat battles, and then you beat the quests, and then you beat battles again, which now are harder because you have Sauron annoying you, and then you beat the and then I think you get a first Sauron, and then if you beat the quests again, which are like a combination between, like, it's like a T-Rex shark or something like that. You beat that, and then you have, like, a super Sauron at the end. That's, like, the main final wizard mode. No, that's Mr. Sinister at the end. Yeah. You play Sinister twice. That's all I know. Three times, apparently. So three? Yeah, I'm reading the rules now. So the first one is the Mega Crackle Adonis Rex. Sure. and you're right so you've got to complete both the quests and the Sauron multiple to qualify if you complete the team up battles so Juggernaut Sauron Mystique and Saber's Barrel you then get clone multiple apparently this is what I'm reading so if you do all five so you do all five well that's going to be doing the the top three twice yes okay but these are the team up battles so you've got to complete them. I don't know. Whatever. And then the final one, the final battle, you've got to complete both of the other Mr. Sinisters, so the Mega Crackle Adonis Rex and the Clone multiball, and you've got to have completed Mech Suit multiball and then you get your final battle. Yeah, because the Team Up multiball, the Team Up modes are when is the second of the battles because Sauron is being annoying and making those. So you have to fight those guys and Sauron, so I think that's the team-up battles. That means top two twice, and then the bottom. So there you go. It's a freaking great game. Just listening to the rules, I've just learned so much more about that game just listening to you now than I've ever known. Yeah, it's amazing. It's great. It's probably outside of Batman, my favorite new stern. The sound is great. The music's great. The structure, the rule structure is amazing. The team-ups are really clever, that shoots great. It's just, mm, kinetic satisfaction. So much of it in this game. Yes, there really is. As Keith would say. There you go. So there you go. Joe tips the top 100 Deadpool. That was amazing. Thank you. And I just love that. Just rattle off the top of your head. Here's what I know. Like, it's crazy. Yeah, it's one of my favorite games. I know this pretty in depth. Excellent. So just a couple of things to finish off the week. So for my week in pinball, oh, my God, I am so far behind getting everything ready for the Flipout Melbourne Silver Bowl Championship in two weeks. So this weekend, as I said before, that's what I'm now. I'm getting myself up to speed. This week, I'm hoping to stream Oktoberfest and Jersey Jack Pirates. I was meant to do it last week, but at work, we actually had someone smash a window. So I had to wait at work till God knows what hour at night instead of streaming. So there you go. and I've also got to select the machines for flip out. So I don't want to spend too much time on this because I know we've been given the five second wind up to finish the podcast because we've all got things to do. But I'm going to now do a power selection. You ready? Here we go. I want you to pick two machines from these four different categories I've got to build seven machines because ACDC premium is already confirmed in the bank. So here we go. Two modern machines. Pick two machines. Grand Prix, Stern, Spider-Man, Stern, Hobbit, America's Most Haunted, Dialed In, Pirates of the Caribbean, Jersey Jack, TNA, Deadpool, Iron Maiden, Munsters, or Black Knight Sword of Rage. Pick two machines. Jesus. I'm supposed to remember everything you said. I need a list. Well, I heard Pirates, so obviously that. And then I heard Deadpool, so sounds good to me. D&D Machines. You've got, well, I guess this is technically. Star Trek 25th Anniversary Data East, Addams Family, Indiana Jones Pimple Adventure, Pistol Poker from Alvin G, hilarious, Judge Dredd, No Fear, Theater of Magic, Monster Bash, Revenge from Mars, Star Wars Episode I. Oh, my God. Addams Family. And, I mean, I personally would pick Theater of Magic, but if you don't want to do theater of magic, what were the first four you said? So we'll forget Star Trek 25th anniversary. It never happened. Indiana Jones, Pimple Adventure, Judge Red, No Fear, Monster Bash. I mean, I guess Monster Bash or No Fear. Pick one. I'd rather it be theater of magic. Well, you can do theater of magic. I'll just do theater of magic. Okay. And then for solid states, you've got Charlie's Angels, Phoenix, Phoenix, Time Warp, Harlem Globetrotters, Alien Poker, Xenon Shark from Hankin, which you would never know, Force 2 from Gottlieb, and Silver Slugger. Shit, I heard it and said definitely that one, and then I forgot what it was. What's the beginning again? Phoenix, Time Warp with the banana flippers, hilarious, Harlem Globetrotters, Alien Poker, Xenon Shark, Force 2, or Silver Slugger. I'd go Charlie's Angels. I really like that game. And Alien Poker. Okay. from your EM you get to pick one machine Flying Turns from 1964 I wrote that last weekend there's only one in existence and I wrote it King Cool from Gottlieb 1972 Wizard from Bali 1975 Big Ben Williams 1975 Target Alpha from Gottlieb